The Triumph 2500PI Was The Lotus Carlton Of Its Day! But Had A Serious Flaw..
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- Опубліковано 24 гру 2023
- The Triumph 2000 was the first car built under the ownership of British Leyland, it was very good if perhaps a little slow. With the 2.5 litre from the sports TR range the 2500 had 50% more horsepower and was the Lotus Carlton of its day. It should have been brilliant.. but it had a ridiculous flaw..
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As reckless 17-year old, working at a back street garage in the early 70's, my boss had a Mk 2 2.5 PI estate. I'm sure he wouldn't have been thrilled at my shenanigans when I was sent to collect parts. I remember having a few sphincter-clenching moments. I always loved the beautiful, airy cabin, and low waistline, and it had such a lot of space. The visibility in these Triumphs was amazing, and was similar to the Dolomite I had a few years later
1000 years ago when I was an apprentice mechanic I remember going out in a breakdown truck with a mechanic to retrieve a 2500 PI. It belonged to a Doctor who had parked it on his driveway one winters day only to find that in the morning, the engine bay was full of snow. We retrieved the car a took it back to the workshop to sort it out. The strangest thing that I saw, which has always stayed in my memory, is that when I was removing all the ignition bits, plugs, coil ht leads, cap etc, I cam to remove the rotor and noticed that it was round. Not only that, but it contained centerfugal balance weights inside it. Never saw this before or after. When we got it running and took it out for a test drive, it felt like being in a rally car. Amazing vehicle
Those centrifugal balance weights are the automatic advance/retard mechanism for the ignition. Almost all Lucas (and presumably other) distributors had this, somewhat crude technology. As the weights moved out as rpm increased so the cam profile in the distributor altered the ignition timing. (Oh dear, I think I’m showing my age! lol)
@@adriancoppola3729are you sure those aren' t the rev limiter?
@@mehrzahl2219 Agreed - they were rev limiter weights which I think the Mini Cooper had too?
@@mehrzahl2219 considering your German alias, your question may stem from knowing that e.g. Volkswagen using centrifugal balance weights to limit revs in their air-cooled engine cars. That is how it was used in the Käfer (Beetle), but adjustment of timing is another valid application of centrifugal balance weights. The straight six PI was a relatively fast car at the time and as #27 said, also had good fuel economy at that. British police used these cars. All that makes timing adjustment the favourable hypothesis in my reasoning. Just guessing.
But why was the engine bay full of snow, that's what everyone wants to know?
The car you have there is only rare because the Company was just about to switch to the Mk2 body shell. And the next 6 years of 2.5s were all PIs. It was only for the last 2 years they reverted to carbs before production ended in ‘77. I personally prefer the styling and the dash layout of the Mk2s, and they were sufficiently reliable to be a popular choice as police traffic cars. Oh and Merry Christmas 😊
Nah mate, we had a 2500TC 1973 mk2 when I was a kid. My uncle had a PI.
Ours was Quick enough at 110hp and did 190kmph.
His PI was noticeably quicker, but drank twice as much petrol.
Both were super reliable.
Later I owned a 1977 2500TC.
Maybe they only imported the PI where you were?
Not true, I have owned both types. This is BS big time. @@Maungateitei
@@PaulBriden yeah, what the hell is this shite about only PI built until the last few years of mk2? And FFSake what is this crap about modified windscreen wiper pumps for injection?
I think he is referring to the in fuel tank feed pump, which my uncle did have to fix once, but it sure wasn't providing pressure for the main injectors, just keeping them supplied with petrol.
@@Maungateitei the pi was made till 1975 although it was the face lift version i had one
Carb 2500s were produced during the mk2 2.5 PI run... My 1971 2.5 PI estate was civilised, and still a beast. It is also the best £750 I've ever spent. The only breakdown in 2 years was an alternator belt. It was fast - just flick out of overdrive to overtake yet another Audi or BMW - and it gripped well with modern Bridgestones on the later 2500S alloys. Sadly, rust and vandalism meant it needed a proper resto, which I was never going to do, so I sold it on. It is still SORN 15 years later...
I had several of these both mk1 and 2 with overdrive and automatic, the last one was 37 years ago and l fitted the modified TR6 engine putting out 180bhp with upgraded suspension and brakes. It was a car that should have been a factory option, they would have sold loads and it was not expensive to do with the parts available at the time. I used it to rush my wife to hospital to have a first daughter. Moved it on for a genuine RS3100. The car is still going and l see it at shows in the West Country.
Lol, at 18 in 1980, I did the same with my 1974 PI. With 2500S style front grille.
Delete airbox, add trumpets
Reprofiled cam
Head gasflowed and bigger valves
Electronic ignition
My Dad was respraying one of these back in the day. It was stripped out for paint and he took me out for a spin in it on back roads in Northern Ireland. About 1976. I can't have been more than 4 years old. It had no exhaust, and not a single piece of glass in it. It was wild. That ride is still a rather vivid memory.
@cogboy I was 8 in 1978 and my dad did a service on a 2.5 pi estate auto, it felt like a rocket ship back then , seemed to just pull like a train, silky smooth and lovely seats , miles nicer than the mk2 cortina my dad had as our family car! Ha good days - merry Xmas !
Such a good story, my Dad was like yours. He often would take me out in cars being done up that hardly had an interior 😂
Would've been fun in south armagh haha
Lucky the army didn't clock you😮
Everything was more relaxed back then, I’ve good memories from the backroads of Fermanagh 👍
Back in the early-to-mid 70s, my workplace car park was full of these! And the reason was very simple. Triumph really didn't seem to know how to set up the injection system, and many of them left the factory running more like tractors than sophisticated saloons!
Enter Graham, a work colleague and keen amateur rally driver. He quickly developed a technique for correctly setting up the injection system, using nothing more than a colourtune kit! This was a time when most dealer mechanics had never come across a fuel injection system, and had no idea how to tune them properly.
So, many of my colleagues would go to the car auctions, pick up an almost new 2.5 PI for a fraction of its showroom price, and await a week-end when Graham was on shift! Come the lunch break, Graham would wander out to the car park, colortune in hand, spend 15 - 30 minutes working his magic, the the new owner would leave with his car purring like a kitten - rather than sounding like a Fordson tractor!
He must have sorted a dozen or more of these, all bought cheap at auction, and all now performing perfectly amongst my work colleagues!
As an aside, Graham had a 2.5 PI Estate, which he used as his support car on rallies. When the Range Rover first appeared, Rover turned up with one at a rally, and proceeded to get it stuck in the mud! Graham towed it out with his 2.5 PI estate.....!
The Triumphs of this generation had wonderful exhaust notes. The Stage 3.0 and TR6 exhaust notes are just wonderful on the ears.
They do sound amazing, the straight six was a beautiful engine.
I loved the sound of the exhaust note on my TR6 when i flicked the OD lever. The lump would just be lazily rumbling and burbling. Can’t say i enjoyed the howling petrol pump though. Other than that, Happy days.
The TR 5 was even better, before Triumph were forced to castrate it for the American market!
@@frankrowland I know, tragic. Should never happen to a Triumph. Or any other car for that matter.
@jackburtonstwin Ah, also the Fiat's had many models in the 70's and 80's with those roaring exhaust notes!!
I drove a Mk2 PI police car throughout most of the 1970’s in inner London. i absolutely loved it. Yes it could be unreliable and yes it was a nightmare to start it when it got hot, I can still hear that sound of trying to crank the engine over in my ear. I also drove the P6, 2500 TC and the 2800 SD1. Mark 4 or 5 Cortina and the 2000 Sierra. The Triumph was by far the most enjoyable one of the bunch. Great memories for me.
Yes the engine bay was so hot it used to evaporate the fuel and cranking over till it filled the mechanical fuel pump.
Many years ago, we had a 1975 P Reg 2000 TC Estate with overdrive and the previous owner had fettled it so it had overdrive in every gear including reverse, making it a real 10 speed!! I fitted Spax (remember those) adjustable dampers to the rear, originals were totally shot. The rear diff whined a lot, so had that rebuilt and new wheel bearings all round.
We did many miles with our two young kids after fitting seat harnesses. Remember the front seats as very squishy but supportive, like many Citroen cars of the same era. It lasted a few years then failed an MOT big time so went for scrap. It had a Webasto fabric sunroof and wonder of wonders, a heated rear screen, but none of today's essentials like central locking, remote mirrors, auto dimming rear mirror, auto wipers or headlights. As a former Marine Engineer, I could do it all myself, but now we pay £75 just for the garage to plug in the code reader.....happy days.
When looking at this elegant saloon and Triumphs broad range of attractive other saloons coupés and roadsters in the 1960s and early 70s, it's noticeable how well Triumph was on its way to become the British counterpart to BMW and Alfa Romeo. For that reason, when mentioning a car brand you would most likely see return from the past, I would always choose Triumph. It's the Leyland brand with the highest sense of missed opportunity.
As school kids, my friend, David Stewart, used to bring his parents' car to school, a 2.5 pi. It was amazing. It could drive 50 mph backward! All triumphs were brilliant, and it has been my pleasure to own many. Dolomite, Spitfire, Herald, 2000, 2500.... all great cars.
I owned three of the Mk II versions in the '80's, the last of which was an estate. One of the unique features of the car was that the fuel injection was direct, which meant the pump had to work at very high pressure, generating heat that caused a vapour lock if the car stood for a short time. None of my PIs did this and the estate, especially, was a delight. My wife and I used to settle the children down in the back for overnight trips between Fort William and the West Country.
My estate felt as quick as a Datsun 240 Z that a friend tried to sell me. We also owned several Rover P6's and the real rival to the 2500 PI was the P6 V8. I always felt that the P6 would have benefitted from the PI's overdrive. The PI on the other hand, I don't believe had leather trim out of the factory. I now run a Jaguar 3.0 S with a stage 1 remap, but still think fondly of my PIs & P6s.
The injection wasn't direct, it was into the manifold; the reason the pump ( a piece of crap) had to be hp was to drive the mechanical shuttle distribution system.
I own a P6b that I inherited from my grandfather - it was purchased with his 2500pi being traded in for it. The p6b suited him better as he could dawdle around in it, whereas the pi got converted to twin carbs because he never drove it hard and the fuel injection didn’t like low speeds around town all the time. Great comparison though (I’m now converting his p6b to a manual to unleash some of the sportiness)
The Datsun 240z was a far better car
A Traffic Officer in New Zealand had the MK2 2500S as his "covert car"....
He used to wear a flat cap and a tweed jacket over his uniform shirt and tootle along at the speed limit....and book cars travelling well in excess of the speed limit (80 to 100kmh on the open road).
It was the shock value of the "old man in the grandad car" actually being a Ministry of Transport car......
He said that it was his favourite car to drive...so comfortable when compared with the Holdens and Ford Cortinas that were the usual black and white uniform cars of the time...
My mate Nick’s Dad had one of these in the late Seventies.
For some wild reason his Dad let him drive it full of his mates to obscure country pubs in Hampshire and West Sussex. It saved us getting soaking wet on the motorbikes and they soon faded as we realised the lure of the car as opposed to the bike!
I can remember the car had some poke to it, even with five burly teenagers in it. A very luxurious interior with soft suspension that gave a queasy ride for those in the back. Nothing to do with the four pints of Ruddles County consumed by the four reprobate passengers.
Great memories - and of course happy birthday to my mate Nick for next month. He’ll be 65……….
Oh my goodness, that is a beautiful example. A very good looking car in my opinion. Performance good even by modern standards as well, 0-60 mph in under 10 seconds is decently quick.
I had a couple of those when I was young. Had a few dolomites as well. I bought a Dolomite of a friend's mum for £25, it had a MOT as well. The Stag is my favourite Triumph 👍
Remember seeing these old British cars in films and TV programmes of the 70s and they always look knackered even though they were only several years old 😂. Lovely old car
Liked both Mk1 and Mk2 Triumph of the 2000/2500 range . Leyland bought Triumph in 1962 , whilst it competes with the Rover 2000 P6 range Leyland didn’t buy Rover until 1967, but kept both models on competing against one another till 1977 because both cars had a strong popularity in their customer base. The Triumph 2500 PI IN mk2 guise I think came 3rd in the London - Mexico Rally , it was won by the much lighter and more agile Ford Escort driven by Hannu Mikkola, but credit should be given to the Triumph as it was a more heavier executive car . Whilst the P6 won many accolades for its unique design , comfort and safety , the Truimph won the Gold award for construction, and had the six cylinder refinement over the Rovers four pot. ( the P5 as illustrated in your video had a six cylinder followed by the Buick V8. ) The Triumph also had more interior space both in seating and boot space over the P6 due to the P6 base unit design. stunning example of this rare Mk1 PI in your video, a true credit to the owner. And what a lovely soundtrack to the engine/exhaust note.
I know we can only see it on camera but it looks more or less perfect. The mk1 was my favourite, the Rover too, and what a lovely colour. Britain made some beauties and it's a crying shame we couldn't seem to nail mass production, a great loss to the car industry really.
@@rob5944 ditto. The Triumph and Rovers were well made cars , but admittedly were beginning to look heavy and old fashioned compared to other European models, some incorporating the hatchback theme , and of course our British designs were proving more expensive to produce. The SD1 that followed , originally in 3500 V8 guise , but later having the smaller straight 6 engines , was a more modern adaptation to replace both cars, but beset with quality issues as we all know.
@@martinclapton2724 yes, a full order book for the SD1 was squandered, and this happened repeatedly at BL Ironically though the French preferred sallons to hatches, although in the 60s it wasn't so much of an issue. BMWs have traditionally been booted and it never did thrn any harm....
The Triumph had better interior space but was absolutely nowhere compared to the driving dynamics of the P6.
The 2500PI in fact came second on the London to Mexico Rally.
Great to see a Mk1 on the channel. My late Dad had several Mk1 2500 PI's and was well known in the UK for his tuning abilities on these. As there were not many people that could correctly setup the mechanical timed fuel injection. That style was officially called the Mk1, and later there was the Mk2. They said they were detuned, however when you Dyno'd them they were still 150bhp, and with some minor old school tuning "Porting and polishing of the TBI's. (Yes these had 6 individual throttle bodies), then they would put out 165bhp. Which for a engine of that era is pretty insane. Bearing in mind the much later 3500 Rover V8 SD1 was 150bhp.
Compare apples with apples. If you add fuel injection (and note a fairly crude "wet" system in this case) to the Rover V8 you get 190bhp without trying. It's called the Vitesse. If you then do those same things as you say with the Triumph engine you get 210-220 bhp. Then there's the torque...
@@peterbroad1772 ok if you are comparing apples with apples you would note that the rover engine is almost half as big again in cc. I believe the Rover is however lighter than the Triumph, which is what makes it such an attractive proposition.
Great review Jack, and an awesome car, I've tuned up no end of Triumph 2.5Pi, TR5s and TR6's. Once fitted with a Bosch fuel pump and a few other little enhancements they are a cracking car that gives many smiles to the gallon. The saloon is amazingly sprightly for it's time, and was a step in the right direction. With all the issues of the pump these days sorted out they make a very enjoyable classic car that can easily keep up with modern traffic 👍
For 4 years In the mid thru late '70's I owned the 6th TR5 built ( CP6 ), LHP 293F. It was one of the factory press cars. Never had any problem with the metering unit. The only occasions in those years that I had with vapour locking was 3 times at the height of hot summers, stuck in heavy traffic. The engine would misfire/cut out. I'd manage to get the car into the side of the road, and wait for 15 or 30 minutes till things had cooled down a bit, and usually the traffic had eased off. Started up, and went on my way. I was aware of what the issue was, but never really viewed it as something to get worked up about. Interestingly, the fuel pump was attached to the n/s bulkhead,
and was surrounded by cooling rings through which the petrol flowed. I'd owned a TR4 prior to the TR5, and after the TR5 had a TR6. As I recall, I think the factory moved the fuel pump to the boot on that.
A mate had one - we called it the Juice Canoe. And yep, trying to start it from hot was very...trying.
years ago, i got a phone call to recover a 2.5 pi with 2 young girls in daddy's car
the car would almost fire up, but not quite, so i asked the girls if it had any petrol in, they said yes, they had put some in before coming down to the beach. after many checks, i asked how much petrol, "1 gallon, we normally put a gallon in mummies mini, + it lasts all day" . they were 14 miles from home... always ask the right questions, lesson learnt...
If you were upwardly mobile half a century ago these were on your radar.Still sound lovely.
drove one in the early '70's -it was a company pool car(!) for a group of us relocating from Scotland to the midlands. Hot starts were a disaster - the petrol pump cooked (under the boot floor) and when you stopped the fuel in the pump would vapourize, and then it wouldn't start until it had cooled down again. But once going - it was a great car (we had a 1958 beetle as our own car, so bit of a dramatic difference!)
my dad had the 65 triumph 2000 back in 66 he bought it over the rover 2000 the car here is the best looking 2.5 pi of the lot had the earlier lights and dash etc they are great cars ! that example is totally lovely!!
Long time listener, first time caller..
Most Triumphs downunder, as the redoubtable Vanguards before, were assembled here CKD with quality and care by AMI (Australian Motor Industries). Unique to AMI was its very sporty triple-carb 2000 ‘MD’ variant, only offered in Mk1 guise.
For trivia AMI also built Toyotas and Rambler cars (including btw a few r/h/d Javelin and yes AMX!) which all shared the same distinctive corporate Dulux colour palette and high quality Ambla upholstery trim - in effect a veritable tri-nation calling card.
Like so many British vehicles of the day, these Triumph 6cyl saloons were undeniably romantic cars. Even the base 2000 had that semi-sporting air, and which btw were raced in-period at Bathurst.
Personally I also much favour the Mk1 variants, both in external style plus its wonderfully distinctive dashboard. I’m surprised to re-learn of the rarity of the Mk1 PI as I well remember sighting them on the streets of Melbourne. Local magazine coverage and tests of Trumpys were also well featured.
One of my ‘work cars’ was an almost new 2500 TC, an engaging machine and probably the pick of the range? I still recall its blend of ‘quiet luxury’ plus that small but smooth inline 6 which for bonus points developed a terrific sounding howl of efficiency as you piled the revs on.
Negatives hereabouts including the 2000 were their consistent and ever-growing demands for finicky maintenance (or resultant unreliability) post-warranty, coupled to a relatively short service life. And if cornered in extremis, with the rear body roll that ensued, those halfshafts could jam up on the splines and instantly snap you into the most sudden of oversteer high-drama.
But all told, Triumph had a good thing going with its 6cyl small-capacity deluxe saloon formula. As many have said, a British pre-BMW with continuing potential. Plus those rorty TR sports cars, the cute Spitfire and cute-as GT6. It all added towards the marque’s credibility.
Looking back it’s amazing how this once-mainstream and much loved Brand just seemed to peter out here and disappear, seemingly while our backs were turned..
My dad and I pulled one of these out of a garage in about 1985. It was an ex diplomats car and lived in the Bahamas for a while. That said it was frilly round the edges and had been brush painted. The straight 6 was great but we never got the car back up and on the road. It got sold to some banger racers…..but I kept the dials which I still have!
Having had the Mk2 Triumph 2.5 Pi it certainly in that Era was a very rapid car well built and even the Police had them in use,They did have problems with the fuel pumps sold it for a triumph 2000 which i kept for many years sold it to a Neighbour who ran it for another 10 years with no real problems.HAPPY DAYS simple controls for all seasons vehicles now far to COMPLICATED with SCREENS for basic controls where your vision is NOT on the ROAD the MK2 2000 on the road price then £1635 that was a lot of cash then
I spent time as a passenger in the Mark 1 2500 PI estate and was amazed at how smooth and comfortable it was. Strangely I recall the overdrive button being on the gear knob like the later Mark 2 versions but perhaps that was a modification. Also the overdrive worked in 3rd and 4th giving effectively 6 speed. At the time I preferred the looks of the later Mark 2s and still do to some extent, especially the interior but these older cars do have a real charm and grow on you. PI also did reappear with the Mark 2 for some if not most models but there was also a TC twin carb version.
Fabulous choice for Christmas Day! Your videos keep getting better with each upload and your knowledge and enthusiasm are a joy. Thanks!
Buon Natale Jack!! Thanks for providing such entertaining content. Love these ‘obscure’ car reviews that have become a mainstay of your channel. All the best for 2024
I owned a GT6 Mk1, and also a TR6 ( 150BHP) with the TR6 the first thing i was told to do was take the sound proofing away from the fuel pump, otherwise i may get an overheated pump. The straight 6 would go on and on they were great cars and a great engine with a marvelous exhaust note, , the Police used the 2.5 PI saloon. I had no problem whatsoever with the PI only that it was thirsty, so as i had done with the GT6 i went back to 1 3/4 SU carbs and got a really good MPG but sacrificed the top end speed., I had the car tunes in Manchester at Watson and Jeffreys, whilst it was still a PI They told me i had a very nice car and on the rolling road it was putting out 150BHP on the back wheels it would have given more but the clutch started to paly up. The saloon your driving is a magnificent example and we must think of what might have been if Leyland hadn't stopped the Triumph production line., guess once you've owned a Triumph your a life long fan. Thank you for the video and the memories it brings back. Sisaket Thailand.
The main competitor to the Triumph 2000 was the Rover P6 2000 not the P5 3 lire pictured. My father had two Triumph 2000s, one of which, a 1967 version, became my first car. They were comfortable and we did many trips to Cornwall from Cardiff before the M5 motorway.
Excellent vid loved it. Dad had a mk 2 2.5 pi estate with od . Went like the clappers, and easily went beyond 100mph on the motorways.
My dad had one of those too. With the overdrive switch on the top of the gear knob, yes? 8 year old me thought that was so cool.
My dad had a mk2 2500s in yellow .
He bought it when it was about 4 years old ., it was a great car .
However after a while he realised the whole car was absolutely riddled with rust !
He tried to get it repaired but it was too far gone ,at about 5 years old it was ready for the scrap yard !
Good old British Leyland!
we had the face lifted one after that shape it had the full vinyl sunroof with the Borg Warner Automatic box it was an absolute rocket all my friends wanted to come in it because my dad wasn’t shy with his right foot. We used to stand up on the back seat with the roof open getting peppered by the flies, no seat belts back then 😅great memories.
We had fuel pump issues too but they did make it accessible in the boot on the right hand side lol
The PI engine would have been a good variant in the Stag as a lower priced version under the V8. It certainly is a nice characterful unit.
My late father had the 2L version. It was a lovely smooth car. In the days before passenger safety was taken much more seriously, as a little boy, I used to lay on the parcel shelf under the rear screen. Thank god we never crashed!
As a nipper my favourite place was sitting on the rear seat central armrest of our 2000! First car I ever drove also, sitting on Dad's lap, holding the steering wheel Lol.
@@samueldowney2806 Yeah I did that too! We had the best of childhoods! 😁😁😁
I owned one back in the day when only nineteen years old, tearing along the recently completed M62 in West Yorkshire. I loved it, great in a straight line but not so entertaining in the bends and rather thirsty as I recall, although that was probably down to an exuberant teen at the wheel. Remembered with affection to this day and basked in the knowledge that not many cars could match its performance apart from the boys in blue with whom it was a popular squad car choice. Nicely reviewed, thanks.
Happy Christmas Jack.
That's a lovely example of a mk1 2500 PI, my friend had one, it really was a hot rod, manual overdrive, but had trouble hot starting and used enormous amounts of fuel. I had a 1975 model MK 2 2500 TC 4 speed manual , complete with Mini-light mags wheels now it was a nice comfortable driver, with a respectable turn of speed and great fuel economy. Yes they were nice cars.
Our neighbours here in Belgium had one of these in the 70's it was a mk2 in burgundy with black leather, gorgeous car
That car looks _amazing_ ! I had forgotten that there even was a 2500 PI in the mk1 shape... Fantastic !
I had a plain old 1969 2000 in the early 80s, and it was a _bit_ troublesome :o( But it was my 2nd car owned after a terrible BL mini, and it sounded great when it was working - I really like the look of this shaped Triumph series.
Can I put my hand up for a Stag review please Jack ?
One of the cars that my school-friends' parents had. Interesting to hear how it strikes you in 2023.
My brothers first car was a Triumph 2000. It was very competent and he sold it to go overseas. 47 years ago but remember it well
I was a young police officer in North Wales in the 1980's. There was a shady mechanic over on Merseyside that used to tune and service 2.5 PI's, which were by no means a new car even then. He supplied them to an organised criminal gang that used them to carry out crime over on our patch, given that they'd give police cars a run for their money. Us ordinary cops only had Escorts and Minis, and Traffic had things like Princesses and 2.8 Granadas. I don't ever recall one being chased, just sightings of this mythical beast
Nice one Jack.
when I was at senior school my dad had a late MK2 2.5PI Auto with all the factory extras that he bought with the injection system fault and then thoroughly fixed it. what a mover that car was and a real looker to boot, I mean, it was really coooool back in the late 70s.
straight after school I went on to work with him at a Triumph Stag specialist and Stags were like turning it up to eleven
Whilst in UK in the 90s I had an identical saloon to the one you tested re colour wheels/trim etc... but non Pi, it was still a lovely car in manual overdrive form. One slight correction to your otherwise excellent (as usual) review is you mention the Rover P5 as the Triumphs nearest competitor (with a pic of a Rover P5B (V8) coupe). Not so, the Rover you wish to mention with the
'4-cylinder' is the P6. It was interesting how these two cars developed overtime with the Buick V8 being slotted into the P6 in both auto and manual form and the Triumph finishing up as the 2500S model - both great cars.
The straight 6 engine of the Triumph was so much better than the 4 Cyl P6 Rover 2000's, but the Rover had the better styling?
Thought I was going senile in my old age for a minute, glad you cleared that up for me.
You can't beat the straight six, I've also owned in past both 2 litre and a 2.5 litre Mk.III GT6s (the latter was a conversion). I've owned many P6s as well, I think the Triumph saloon is better re general space/room, bigger boot, bit more airy inside etc. The P6 whilst having great rear seats is quite cramped in the back and its a bit smaller inside, overall styling is nice though. I currently have a 1974 3500S in Lunar Grey, black roof, black leather seats running on P5B chrome rostyles - it does look very smart. Full history from new, I'm the fourth owner, not bad for a 49 year old car. The second owner had it for 34 years! But I wouldn't mind a manual Triumph 2500S, they'd make a nice pair.
I had a manual 2500S, they are rubbish compared to a PI. They use a lot more fuel and are a lot slower. @@marknelson5929
I drove a 2.5 Pi as a rozzer. They had an experimental auto gearbox that made it accelerate like a scalded cat but topped out at 90mph which was fine for central London. A gearbox lasted on average for 10k miles before it blew. They had a hot start fault where the petrol vapourised in the fuel line, This was solved by a traffic cop who suggested a coiled fuel line to assist cooling, this was adopted by 'Triumph' as a solution and was retro fitted to all police supplied cars. They also averaged 12 mpg in our hands but were great fun after the old Rover V8s that were too big for London traffic.
When they worked they were the best young Executives motor of it's time,but even in MK 2 form it was a little unreliable. The handling was better than the 3.0SI BMWs I had to follow.
It's not true to say it's only problem was the fuel pump, the biggest problem was the white metal thrust washers on the crank. I had one that I bought from an auction at what I thought was a bargain price, it was as solid as a rock and very clean, after a few weeks these thrust washers dropped into the sump due to excess wear. I removed the engine and took the block to an engineers who had repaired a number of these engines, they made a special thrust bearing out of Phosphor Bronze and dowelled it to the block, a big job but it cured the problem. The reason for the failure was the extra pressure put onto the washers by the uprated clutch needed for the extra power due to the increase to a 2500cc capacity and the PI system. Without doubt the best car I have ever owned, I wish I still had it.
There's still quite a few Triumph 2000/2500's in New Zealand, more the Mk2, but a few Mk1's. A very popular middle management company car.
Other modern touches for the Mk1 was the boosted front disc brakes, independent rear suspension and like Ford, the use of McPherson struts up front.
A really well respected car and built out of quality materials and for the time, well equipped. The engine by the '70's, was showing its age however, with its long stroke small bore in the 2500 variant typical of British cars of the era, and 4 main bearings. But in carburetted form, really reliable.
The 2.5TC was a favorite of cannabis growers in New Zealand. At the time the police had Cortinas, the Triumph with the power and independent rear suspension would leave them choking in the dust on the back country unsurfaced roads.
My Dad had a Mk 2 2.5 PI, FXD 611J from 6 months old bought from Henleys. This was an early one, no inertia seatbelts, no tinted glass, no hazard lights, plastic seats, no power steering, however it did have overdrive. He did 140,000 miles in it, the pump went at 80,000 miles.
I had a PI, TPX 675k. Emerald green with a full length webasto roof, tinted glass, inertia seatbelts and grey plastic seats. The problem with this one was the previous owner had upgraded the engine to 150 bhp. The power sheared the flywheel on the automatic gearbox so I converted it to manual, This was easy, new pedal box, clutch, gearbox, lever etc and prop shaft. In 1983 when I did this there were so many at the breakers I just got all the bits secondhand. I swapped it for a Dolomite Sprint. This was a really really nice car.
I then had a 2500S, PJM 420R. Compared to the PI's it was rubbish. A lot slower and it used a lot more fuel. The worst part was these cars rusted really badly compared to the earlier cars. The reason I was given is BL started using cheap Russian steel ?. Anyway, the auto gearbox packed up on the way to Cambridge so I bought a rusty PI estate and converted it to manual. What I should have done is transfered the whole lot over rather than just the gearbox. I sold the PI engine in an hour after the advert went into Exchange and Mart.
The PI and the 2500S did around 18 mpg around town. The PI would easily do 27 mpg on a run driven at sensible speeds. The 2500S I had could not manage more than 20 mpg even with overdrive, NGK plugs, electronic ignition. I did my best. Remember the PI was a lot lot faster and a lot more pleasent to drive.
John Bolster tested a PI in around 1969, as I remember he said that in the future all cars will be fuel injected. True words.
In my opinion is the best 2.5 PI's are the really late ones with the different grille, Dolomite instruments, cloth trim etc etc etc.
One simple test for the fuel injection is to hold the pipe to each of the injectors and feel the pulse, each pipe should have an even pulse. You can feel it like a heartbeat. A very good indication to the serviceability of the fuel injection.
According to my Dad a lot of the issues were mechanics whose understanding went no further than a Morris Minor, Marina or an A40.
What amuses me is you get so many people who slag the fuel injection off, yes, these Plebs have never even owned a fuel injected Triumph. The question for these well informed pilgrims is this. Why are there still a lot of these fuel injected Triumphs still on the road when the last new one was available in 1976 ?
Thank you for this video! Great holiday viewing! That engine sound is wonderful.
Very cool car. Interior looks awesome. Thank you for showcasing these old cars. Keep up the good work.
Drove one of these on the ragged edge back in late 70's, it held up well for its age.
One of the best dashboards of the period.
Thanks Jack. Great road test. Always loved the Triumphs of that period
Loved the MK2, what a roar from that engine
One of my uncles had a mk2 2500 tc on wire wheels.
I absolutely loved it. Very good looking inside and out and very refined.
Went well too . There was a reliability problem with it though.
My aunt asked me to driver her on a fairly long trip. About 1/2 way there it lost compression on one cylinder and we had to limp the rest of the way.
Uncle replaced the engine and sold it a few years later.
I whish he had tlod he was going to sell as I may have bought it.
Although at the time I was into Alfas, so maybe not.
It is a car I often think about fondly.
When I was 20 an old guy at work had one, white with black vinyl roof, he used to spin the tyres in 2nd gear, l loved it, my dream car back then
Good video to go with my Xmas morning coffee.
I had a Mk 1 2000 and a very early Mk 2 PI. Yes, I had a breakdown with the fuel pump but the RAC man got me going by giving it a bash with a spanner. Even in the 80s getting a recon unit was a faff and I had to trek up to West London to a tiny workshop in a viaduct arch under the District Line.
No problems apart from that, good acceleration and great exhaust note.
That is a gorgeous example. Wow. Sounds fantastic too. Thanks for the test Jack 😊
I had one, served me for a very long time without any big problems, just regular maintenance, a bit more than normal. Til I wrecked it in the village in a collision with a lorry. After that I sold it. One of the nicest cars I ever had.
I forgot to add, thanks for reviewing this, I have never seen a review of this car. Great stuff !!!!
When I were a lad, my Uncle had one of these. He was stopped more than once for speeding! Yet another 'If only' car from Triumph, like the Stag. That car is stunning, a real credit to its owner. I think I recognise some of the roads you were on from Harry's Garage videos. Do you live close to Harry?
What a beautiful car and a stunning example. Merry Christmas all and a happy new year!
Beautiful car. I like the MK1.
I owned a 1970 2.5 PI Triumph & what this guy says is absolutely right. Two things were a problem. The fuel pump & the Lucas mechanical fuel injection. The fuel pump used to overheat, at which time you'd throw a wet towel over it in the boot to cool it down & the unreliability of the fuel delivery system was widely known. A good car apart from these two major problems. I also had a Mk.2 version of the car with the Bosch fuel pump & twin SU carbs. A much better car all round!
The Lucas PI was basically a cracking system that had good injection pressure ( 6.5bar vs 3bar for later electrically controlled systems up to the introduction of DI ) and was fully sequential. Was extremely successfull in motorsport and was used by Cosworth on DFV and BDG type engines in F1 etc. and rally sport for a long time. Like mechanical fuel injection systems in general it struggled with worn engines and vacuum leaks on the intake as no way to have closed loop control and adjust the calibration to suit. The electric fuel pump issue was a particular weakness of the application in Triumphs, all other applications had engine driven pumps as far as I know - including several production Maseratis.
Great to see cars like this on the channel👍, more please!
Lovely cars,
My dad had quite a few mk 2's when we were kids ,
He was from the south of Italy and we drove 3 times to visit family and relatives in the 1970's and early 80s , through France over the Swiss Alps etc while my mates were going to English seaside towns.
Thank you for bringing back some wonderful memories with this video
❤️
What a beautiful thing. A Mk2 2000 was our first family car that I can remember and kickstarted a life long love of cars. Those interior shots really bring back some memories. A lovely, lovely thing. This one looks an absolute credit to the owner too.
Thanks enjoyed that! My dad had a Mk2 that was ex police traffic, although it had very high mileage it was a dream car. Such a pity Triumph never developed this model further, sheer class.
I had the 2000 Mk1 in the same colour as that (1967 - ESY588E), it had carburetors of course but was a lovely car apart from the usual rust issues which plagued all cars then. I later had the Mk2 2000 in white (OUK134L), the big problem with both being that neither had overdrive and they were seriously under geared, even the ones with overdrive were doing about 4000 revs at 70mph. In the early 70s I also used to drive Mk2 2.5PIs as a Police Officer in Leicestershire, with the old 'jam sandwich' police livery with red side stripes. The gearboxes tended to be noisy but we thought they were really rapid machines, which compared to our Morris Minor 1000 traveler pander cars they were!
Yes the 2.5 PI went like stink if you pushed the loud pedal but to keep a EYE OPEN for the boys in BLUE
That's why we Boys in Blue had them! The only one which once outran us was the Triumph TR5Pi, same engine in a much lighter car.
My father had this very Mk1 model with what at the time was super sleek modern Michelotti styling. As an 8 year old I didn't realise what an excellent car it was until I was older, but my main memory was that when my mother wasn't aboard, my father would open the taps and my sisters and I would watch in awe as the speedo easily surpassed 100mph and we would overtake everything else around. It is probably what lead me into a lifelong interest in faster less common cars that make you feel a bit special.
Thankyou for making these enjoyable and informative videos about so many of the cars that my father and myself owned or wanted to own.
Great vid and a truly excellent example of what is now a very rare car. Love Truimphs and have a Spitfire I'm putting together with a tuned (175bhp) version of the same engine. Despite the bigger brakes and suspension mods I've done, it will probably still need a few sand bags in the boot to get the power down 😂. Keep the variety coming. It's great to see a selection of interesting cars that most people have probably forgotten.
Merry Christmas and a happy New Year, Jack!
I remember as a kid (now 58😳) wanting one as a first car and dad said no way, I don’t need and therefore not getting a large car as my first. I found a nice herald he looked over and gave me the heads up to pursue looking at it and doing the deal with the car dealer on my own to gain confidence. Thank Christ he didn’t list the bonnet…it was a vitesse lol. Like many on here no doubt…I wish I never ragged on it and still had it today.
Oh, dad did eventually realise what was under the bonnet and man was I in trouble, but as not as much as he was with mum for not checking lol
I can remember my neighbour having one of these in the 70’s, a white one but just the 2000, but he only bought cars that were cheap and then tried to run on a shoestring, it went for scrap eventually. Before that he ran (into the ground) an NSU Prinz.
Beautiful interior in that car, and what a magnificent straight 6 sound absolutely lovely, great video number 27 these old car videos really catch my attention, I suppose that’s because I’m 54 the same year this triumph was born
I had a 1969 Mk2 Triumph GT6 in the early 80s which had a 2.5 engine fitted from a TC or PI saloon. It was running on Stromberg twin carbs possibly the originals from the 2.0 engine? That car had an overdrive rear axle ratio but had been fittted with a non overdrive gearbox. The combination of the torque of the big motor, the super light GT6 body and the short final drive made it an absolute animal. It would wheel spin in 3rd gear from a standing start on a damp surface and get to 60mph very quickly. This was 1982 and I was 19. I’m lucky to be here as an old git to tell the tale perhaps 😂
Thankyou for posting the vid on Christmas Day, something for me to watch & enjoy. I was surprised that the wood grain on the dash matched! You really don't expect that from a 'lowly' British car, quality....Thanks again & enjoy your day....
Merry Christmas Jack and a prosperous 2024 🎉
I purchased a 1973 Lreg 2.5pi from a vendor in the early 80's from a gentleman in Crowland Lincolnshire, White and in well cared for condition, blue cloth upholstery with the overdrive switch on the top of the gearstick, truly great impressive car, luxury with a real deep throwt exhaust tone and the back end would dip a bit excitingly if you accelerated rapidly from a slow pase or standing start! Fantastic car and fine memories, Thank you. Happy New Year!
Happy Christmas Jack thanks for another great video.Listening on headphones that engine sounds so cool. Agree with you on the interior what a work of art compared to todays led screens galore!
The MK2 also had PI - my Dad had one in the mid 70's. Still had the fuel pump issue, which was remedied by a local specialist. The fix was coiling copper fuel pipe around the pump, so it was cooled by the fuel. No more problems after that. Lovely car, so refined and comfortable.
I so enjoyed your review of this most stately of British Marque. This particular example is beautifully presented. Thank you for sharing.
What a stunning example! I'm now looking at these differently, thanks Jack! My Uncle had one new and said it was his favourite car despite then going to Siroccos then a E30 320i then Audi & BMWs ever since!
What a stunning Triumph! My dad had a 68 Mk1 2000 auto, then a Mk11 2500s. Loved them...would love on now as a daily classic!
Jack, thank ypu once again for showing us a special little car. This little hot rod is so gorgeous and perfect in many ways. Cheers from accross the pond in upstate New York. Merry Christmas to all. Peace!
Great video. I owned a '72 Mk 2 PI manual/overdrive. Had the car for approx 6 yrs in the mid '80's. Apart from rotting out the rear muffler regularly, it never put a foot wrong. Never had a problem with the PI system (Lucas pump). A couple of English mechanics here in Christchurch, New Zealand really new their suff regarding PI's. I got it serviced every year by them. A very quick car at the time. I still regard this car as one of the best I've owned.
I owned 2 Mk2 Pi’s….absolutely loved them….only one issue with the system a small pin hole in the diaphragm fixed in one day by local guy that knew them inside out… boy could they move…
Well, this brings back memories. In the late 70s all us lads had various cars holdens, fords, datsuns etc but one of the boys bought that Triumph. We all laughed until he went past us. It was a quick car in its day. Merry Christmas Jack
In the 80's a friend had one in white. He lowered it and added minilite wheels - looked and went well. Great review 👏
Very enjoyable thank you Jack. The electric fuel pumps were more of a nightmare in the TR6 as they overheated in a sealed compartment behind a panel in the boot. Lucas missed a trick from Bosch, using the fuel to provide cooling. The mechanical injection pump was also a problem the designe must have been borrowed from Leylands Diesel engines, but didn't have the lubrication that diesel fuel (oil) provided. Therefore did wear prematurely, the shuttle piston that metered the fuel slowly had a longer and longer travel as wear took place, making the mixture very rich. My TR6 ended up doing only 12 mpg, belched out black smoke and used to soot up the plugs. This was at a very low mileage, it was only 18 months old. This could be compensated for by winding in a grub screw under the pump which had a lock nut securing it. I fitted a really early Pirana electronic ignition, harder plugs with large gaps, and could run on a very weak mixture without affecting performance. Using overdrive it could achieve 30mpg on a long run at illegal speeds on the motorway! To minimise wear on the mechanical pump, Redex uper cylinder lubricant in the fuel did a good job!
I had a TR5pi for 27 years and and no problems with the pi or original fuel pump in the boot had a cooling coil fitted.
What a stunningly pretty car.The mk2 is great,but this has so much elegance.Sounds fantastic too.
In the early 80's,I owned a Saloon Mk2 PI with OD. I fitted contactless electronic ignition,tickled up a few things,and it went superbly,never a bother. Never had a single problem with the mechanical injection system. You could pootle along like a senior citizen,then click out the overdrive,and it would then go like hell if needed! Loved it and only had to part with it when I started a family and no.1 was due! I missed it greatly.
The 2.5PI was the very best car I ever owned, and this includes an E-Type V12, a 911 3.8S Gen 2, a Panamera, TR6, MGC, and James May's old 2000. Mine was a 1972 2.5 PI Mk2, owned over a twelve year period, which I had completely restored. Like this Mk1 PI, it had the unrestricted engine with 132bhp and max torque starting way low down at 2,000rpm and right up to the red line with a smooth as silk acceleration with no sense of rumble or imbalance from the engine. Ice Blue paint with Powder Blue interior. I actually secured new old stock of the later seats with headrests. 0-60 was about 8-seconds, but the top speed on four star was 125mph. Not the rubbish that every magazine would state as being 107mph. These cars had to have everything set up by one who knew about the system; knowing the tricks to get out of trouble, like air locks and sticking Lucas fuel pumps in excessively hot weather. The 110psi fuel pump sat right above the exhaust backbox which heated up the metal boot floor in which the pump was affixed to! I've heard it that one of these on 100 RON five star or converted to run on the latest 98/99 RON super unleaded (the valve seats require changing to hardened ones) with manual/overdrive can do a red-line top speed of 130mph. This begs the need for a higher ratio differential as the body with it's two rear scoops, (back window and tail light panel) and the narrow and low frontal profile make this car very aerodynamic for the time and relatively so ever since. I found it so stable on motorways. 80-100 was so effortlessly quick and smooth in direct top and way quicker than my BMW 540i. It could keep abreast with a Double Six to 110. The black-rimmed cluster of instrument dials and the better grade of dashboard veneers that the PI's had over every other model were just magnificent looking. The legroom was superb for a tall driver. These cars had a more supple ride than a P6 Rover, although the Rover did look rather dignified and stately on the outside over the long, low-lying Triumph Mk 2 saloon, - which these were. A BMW M5 of it's day. The Rover SD1 was basically the follow-on from these in wheelbase and size, though interior headroom was lower in an SD1 by quite a margin as my Dad found out in a test drive, so he kept his '77 2500TC for a few more years. The SD1's also tended to rattle with poorly appointed fixtures and shoddy assembly. The 2300 and 2600 engines in the SD1 were actually intended for a newer 2000/2500 replacement Triumph saloon, but BL management decided to cull the in-house competition between Rover and Triumph and instead deployed these in the later released SD1 six-cylinder variants.
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Nice little Xmas gift for us all thanks Jack
I had an interesting cross-country trip in Australia in 1975 with my friend and his 2.5pi. We travelled at (very) high speed along dirt roads between fields, single lane concrete oil company access roads, and potholed country roads with the Triumph handling all with ease. My friend told me about the fuel pump issue and the solution that his mechanic had found and then said that their was another intermittent electrical problem that couldn't be tracked down. As said this the headlights switched off leaving us at 60mph, on a moonless night, on an access road only slightly wider than the car. Three seconds of silence, a bump, and tbe lights returned. "It has done that since the car was new", he said. Before I could ask him how often it happened the lights went out again with several seconds of silent terror before the lights came in again. The rest of the trip was completed at very low speed. I've alway wondered this electrical issue was common for the 2.5pi or whether my friend just had one with that special British Leyland added excitement.
The Prince of Darkness....raises the Ghoul of Terror!