How to Clean a Clogged Secondary Heat Exchanger with Water
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 бер 2020
- I show how to clean a Goodman condensing furnace heat exchanger that just started to clog and trip the flame roll out safety. Not all furnaces can be cleaned as I show at the end of the video.
Thank you for making this video! It gave me confidence to attempt this repair on my own. Your advice and directions were spot on. My furnace was overheating and tripping the flame rollout switch. Turns out, I had this exact problem. After several hours of hard work, I cleaned the heat exchanger and my furnace is now fully operational. I learned so much from watching your video and performing this repair on my own. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and inspiring homeowners. I wish more people were as honest and willing to help others as you are. I had a professional come out several months ago when the flame rollout switch tripped for the first time. He reset it, collected $100 in 5 mins and told me that draft on a windy day caused it to trip. His neglect put my family at risk of inhaling dangerous fumes. Luckily, safety features on my furnace kicked in and prevented really bad things from happening. Feeling blessed and thankful ...
That's a very nice post you did-well done.
An HVAC tech who doesn't have a combustion analyzer is an HVAC tech that has no business working on fuel burning equipment.
still running a year later? i just did it to mine and its running good now. just not sure if its a sign i should be prepping for a new furnace lol??
@@colonelradec5956 yes, still works great. My furnace was installed 15 years ago. I think it will take years before it clogs again. I would not replace it unless you’re having other problems.
This video saved me! Thanks so much! I do have one tip: If you don’t have Trisodium Phosphate (TSP) laying around, grab a box at your local paint store. It’s the best solvent for soot, and it works way better than regular soap and water. The soot just melted off for me! Just make sure to dispose of the wastewater responsibly because it’s horrible for the watershed.
Excellent video, very informative. I have the same furnace and noticed a smell outside this past winter. Looked at secondary and mainly found lots of rust flakes. Used a shop vac and compressed air and wire brush on turbulators. Will place a service call because I noticed corrosion and flakes on the HE, probably on its way out. Thanks for sharing!
this was my issue and i did what you did and it ran perfect 😍 i have been messinf with it for like 3 months 🤣 i did not have a hose so used a spray bottle and a vacuum 😂 got some small clumps or grit out and my flames were like lazers after. thank you! i would never have known to try it without this video.
I had exactly the same problem with the Goodman furnace. After following all your procedures, system is back to business now. Very happy! Thank you very much!
Make sure to have a carbon monoxide detector in the house too.
Just finally did this tonight on my York, after realizing the heat was getting very cool in the house and the smell outside of the exhaust was getting terrible. This fixed my problem after I flushed about 25 gallons of water through it and used a soft brass brush to clean out the holes. Thanks for the info!
That was an awesome video bro!It's important to let young techs know how this could create nuisance psi switch calls,there really quick to replace a psi switch not understanding how this can affect a psi switch.Its annoying keeping up with which ones can be cleaned and which manufacturers or units that can't be,but its not difficult to figure out with some research or a phone call.Theres not enough vids on these topics ,and thats why your video and explanation is awesome!Simple to understand, educational, very informative, great job my HVAC BROTHER!
You are savior, I have been working on my HVAC since Thanksgiving and had multiple HVAC companies take a look, and all they did was charge for "DIAGNOSTICS" and never found the problem. ASSUMPTIONS AND WASTED MY TIME AND MONEY. Your video and explanation has taught me so much. I liked and I am following your videos now. TAKE CARE
Thank-you for your video! I just cleaned the HX on a York 95%. Was plugged with black substance. I made up a 1/4" piece of copper tubing and went through each port with hot water.
Thanks. I never seen anyone try to clean those out.👍
I have been researching on how to verify that my issue is actually the secondary exchanger, and how to fix the problem. This is the first video that finally did give most of the facts needed to accomplish this. I would have liked to see the part where everything is taken apart in a fast forward type video, but I know that it is not easy to "make a film" while actually on site doing your job. I give this video an A+. Thanks for great direction and explanation. Unfortunately, I happen to have the Carrier, which was described at the end of the video. After looking into Carrier warranty, it seems it applies to only the "Original Buyer", which was my dad. Bummer.
No way we bought a house with a carrier and are havin problems. No warranty. damn.
Thanks for the video, just did this to my lennox furnace for condensation drain problems.
Wow this is amazing, thanks for extending the life of my furnace. Our tech took one look and said these things go every 8-10 years and we should get a new one. Being that it broke over Christmas and it dropped to -25 here, I needed some heat badly and went at trying to get it running again myself. After about 30 mins of work and a savings of $5 k quoted, here we are with at least something that works for now. Thanks so much!
Make sure to have a carbon dioxide monitor in the house just for safety.
Monoxide*
@@NathansHVAC With a detector in the basement over the furnace is how the homeowner called me. It went off about a week after their propane company let them run out of fuel. This is only its second season and the tech said to replace the furnace. All cleaned and back in business!
Thank you for your video.
I have been running my furnace for a couple weeks and it was running NG setup on a LP supplied line…..
It was a mess.
It is converted to LP but the secondary heat exchange box it black black black.
Thanks for the help and tips.
I had lot of those inducer motors that failed, but never had one soot up the furnace. Good to know👍
Bonjour, NathansHVAC. it is a pretty elegant video. thanks. :)
Great video! Thanks
Awesome video. Spent 10 hours spinning my wheels until i saw this video
Awesome video thank you
Wow. Cool video!
Great video. Rather than smelling flue gas you should be using a flue gas analyzer.
100%
Hi Nathan --> AWESOME Video!!! any tips on where to get that "gutter" from? or what size/kind it is?? outstanding creativity on using a tool to make the job a little bit cleaner/easier.. great video!!
Nice tip using a wire nut to put on top of your silicone, I hate tossing a half full tube.
I had a 21 year old Coleman furnace replaced in Feb of 2021 with a high efficiency Intertherm and am having a problem with water being blown inside the base of furnace when the main air mover blower energizes. It's flooding a 'shelf' below the covered burner box and leaking onto the floor.
I only found that issue a week ago while investigating why the floor in front of the furnace was flooded. Turns out the condensate pump that plugs into a bulkhead mounted service box GFCI wasn't working. The GFCI outlet failed because when the installers converted the roof penetration from a single 6 or 8" flu to high efficiency they used an adapter for the flu and fresh air PVC but didn't seal the flu pipe well enough to prevent rain water from running down. The water ran down until it got to the 90° at the Inducer but the GFCI is directly under the 90°.
I replaced the GFCI and verified the condensate lift pump was working.
While still in there looking around the furnace kicked on for heat and when the main blower energized I saw quite a lot of water being blown out from between the bottom of the furnace at a seam the full width of the furnace. It was being blown out onto a 'shelf' below the burner box that sits about 4" above the seam.
Does this indicate the secondary heat exchanger has failed? The condensate reservoir doesn't fill and activate the pump either, buy the clear hoses to it aren't plugged. I removed all of them and blew through them. The 1/2" hose that connect to the Inducer fan is filthy inside with a combination of dark soot looking residue and a green algae looking stuff.
I need to call the installers obviously but I could sure use some talking point help. I'm not an overly aggressive person and understand tact and diplomacy but what kind of crap should I expect? The furnace has a 1yr warranty on everything but the heat exchanges which have a 10 year.
Thank you in advance! Any help would sure be appreciated.
Silicone time! I really like the smell test
I think this is really going to help me the heat exchanger is the same type but different brand. Same design but it’s upside down. Will this have a factor in cleaning? If so anyone got any idea on dry cleaning the tubes?
Wow, just ran across your video. The flame rollout switch tripping and the acrid smell were giveaways. Also dirty water in the water collection cup. My first evaluation found the drain tubes had clogged allowing water to build up in the heat exchanger. Draining the water helped and cleaning with compressed air and vacuum in alternating steps restored function for about 3 months.
I had already had decided if the problem returned, I would replace either the heat exchanger or furnace. When it did, I opted for the new exchanger. Yes the Goodman is a user friendly design to work on. I already had experience in removing the exhaust vent, drain tubes and inducer motor. The black iron gas fittings had 4 leaks from the original install by a Goodman installer. I replaced all the fittings myself. That just left the burners and frame. The short top panel had to be rotated up for clearance to remove and install the exchanger.
Disassembly was pretty straightforward, the replacement exchanger came with clear instructions. In all, with other things also done the process took me 9 hours.
The forensic examination of the old exchanger was shocking. Removing the back manifold cover it was loaded with carbon soot and rust. Water had leaked under the fiberglass gasket an there was some indication of the water leaking into the furnace. No amount of compressed air or vacuuming would ever have cleared this buildup from the front.
Every evaluation I have seen indicated the furnace should have been replaced, so why did I opt for replacement of the exchanger myself?
1 Pandemic concerns bringing people into the home with an immune compromised family member.
2. The same service tech that installed the furnace and left 4 leaky gas fittings and leaks in the exhaust piping also came out when the tripped rollout switch problem started. He never checked the exhaust pipe for smell. Just reset the rollout, shrugged his shoulders, and charged for the trouble.
He also stripped out the screws on the induction motor he replaced a year earlier, cracked the plastic cover. This allowed lower air flow which I believe contributed to eventually carboning up the system.
3 On another service call at a rental unit this same tech joking stated, “you know, you could fix some of these things.” I had other things I was doing at the time and gave him some business to help him out too. Instead of being thankful, he was mocking me.
Well Joe, thanks for the advice. Yes, you were right. I can do a heat exchanger myself. It works like new.
As a footnote to my comments, now that I am starting fresh with a new heat exchanger, the service life of the furnace has been extended. The heat exchanger order took almost 2 1/2 months to deliver due to pandemic supply train problems.
The rest of the furnace is, however, still old. Parts for my Goodman are still available. So I am taking the opportunity to stock some of the common replacement parts as well. So if this furnace goes down at 3 am on a subzero morning, I will be prepared to tackle the problem myself first and only call a tech if necessary. I have used a place supplyclinic.com as a source for parts. In most cases I got next day FedEx delivery with no shipping up charge.
On my exchanger replacement, I wrote detailed notes on assembly with photographs. I also recorded video on what the flame looked like before and after. Also I recorded the temperature readings of various locations on the furnace and vent during the problem period and after repairs so I have a baseline for the future.
Correction, the parts source is repairclinic.com
They also have a number of videos to help troubleshoot problems.
What if you flushed the carrier through the primary?
Great informative video. I have a problem now where rollout is tripping. Inside drip pan and inside secondary heat exchanger lots of soot- very black. This is propane Goodman about 14 years old. Thoughts on cause of black soot??
Check that the furnace was converted to propane properly. It should have the conversion sticker on it. You might even see the instruction for the conversion kit that list the oriface size. Verify the oriface that is stamped on the brass pieces.
How did you open the (LENNOX 56M2501 is my part number)Collector Box, Trap? I saw a leak but after I unscrewed it,I could not open it. Looks the seal is way strong. Any suggestions?
I have the same model. Had to put a pry bar beneath and very gently push up to break the seal.
Can you use compressed air or does it have to be water? I've taken several furnace factory classes and not one instructor mentioned they can be cleaned. Is this factory approved or are you cheating ?
So would this most likely be my problem with a 2014 Bryant Nat Gas Furnance that has rusty looking water exiting the condensate line?
Rust in the condensate is normal. A clogged heat exchanger makes the exhaust fumes deadly and smell like a toxic waste dump outside near the exhaust plastic pipe.
I had a Goodman furnace that was tripping the high limit the secondary heat exchanger was full of debris I did the same thing I cleaned it but it didn't help the lower tubes of the main heat exchanger were bursted and part of the tubes were gone it was burnt out completely it was covered under warranty so I replaced it later I found out they kept the thermostat 75 to 78 degrees in the winter it had lasted 11 years maybe the replacement can take it and last that long lol.
During cleaning I suppose if you have water dripping into the blower during cleaning....you know you have a cracked one?
I'd like to know the answer to this as well.
Is it moisture from the combustion process that causes the rusting on that carrier unit?
Just had a bryant furnace installed the other day. Tech says life span is about a decade of modern units. Find that hard to believe, but we'll see. Warranty covers parts/labor for a decade. Old furnace was going on ~18 yrs (frigidare/nordyne 2stage 92K/92%). Worked fine but getting in the years and chicago winters are brutal. Already dealt with frozen pipes once. Don't want to ever have that experience again.
Re install. Installer did measure and set gas pressure to 3.50 inches water column. Also measured static at around .49" WC. The sales guy wanted to install a 60K btu unit. Old unit was 92K btu, 92 afue. We settled on 80K/96%. Haven't had any really cold days (upper 30's/low 40's so far) since install so hard to gauge run times, but so seems comparable to old.
Design life is 15 years, not ten. Warranty is 10 when it is registered. All the hvac manufacturers don't want to get hammered with warranties. The secondary heat exchangers have been redesigned because they were rusting too fast. You should be fine. I expect 20 year life out of most of the brands. Just keep up with your air filter.
I just had my 23-year-old Bryant's 80% efficient furnace replaced with the new 91% efficient Goodman furnace. I did not have any issues with the old one, so I just kept it in my garage, just in case the new one fails in 10 years or so and then I can replace it with the old one. I was originally thinking of replacing my furnace with the new 80% efficient one, but I was told that Enbrgrige gas company can shut down my gas line, as these are no longer approved for installation - only the high-efficiency furnaces are approved nowadays.
I have the same unit,removed the secondary and cleaned it,trying to put it back together.
How to connect the primary to the secondary,is there a sleeve or gasket where the end of the tube goes into the hole on the secondary?
Please help
I never removed the secondary heat exchanger in the video. You are doing a different job. I just removed the outlet manifold cover and removed the turbulators in the secondary. It is very important that the primary and secondary heat exchanger does not have any cracks or holes that would allow combustion products into the house.
@@NathansHVAC im aware that you didnt remove the secondary,your video is the closet i found to what im doing so i thaught you may have an idea.
Excellent video. I have the same furnace, it’s working fine, but I do have water dripping at the bottom of the header cover, could it just need to be resealed? all the drain lines are clear.
You could either silicone with red silicone or buy a new header with adhisive foam gasket installed. If you silicone, you have to dry it out first to get the silicone to stick.
either way, you have to remove the header. Goodman sells them for a minimal amount.
Thank you for this video, is the secondary heat exchanger clogged just because this furnace takes the air from outside? My Goodman furnace takes the air from inside the house and I assume it is much cleaner than outside, where you have much more dust. Did you use the high-temperature silicon to seal that gasket? What is the typical life expectancy of the Goodman furnace?
Air source in or out is the same quality. The soot is from incomplete combustion. Design life for all hvac is 15 years. If the bottom gasket leaks, you can get the whole plastic header pretty cheap from goodman. Silicone works too because the secondary heat exchanger runs cool.
@@NathansHVAC I just replaced my 23 years old 80K BTU 80% efficient Bryant furnace with the new 60K BTU 96% efficient Goodman furnace. I kept my old furnace just in case the new one fails within next ten years or so to place it back. As far as I know, we can't install an 80% efficient furnace in Canada anymore, at least in Ontario. I think the minimum is 90%, if not a bit higher, however we can install an old 80% furnaces. These 80% furnaces work longer then new high efficient furnaces as they less complicated by design. Also these are still available to be purchased and installed in the USA. My old 80% Bryant furnace had stamped heat exchanger and it never fails, the new one has the heat exchanger made from the bent pipe and it usually would crack on the bent point. The China, India and the Middle East are heating up the planet due to a population sizes and we are in Canada are trying to save the world.
is it difficult to pull off fan and header plate? just screws and pull off?? 1st time ever trying this!!!
The goodman is pretty easy to work on. They sell a new header plate with gasket for when it is reinstalled. I did have a small water leak using the old one. Take pictures and dont over tighten during reassembly.
The York I just did was very easy. Fan had 4 bolts and same for the header plate.
The Goodman is easier to change than the carrier.
I can't get my header plate off after removing all the screws. Any tips?
Some carrier and Bryant are plastic welded on
@@NathansHVAC I have a Nordyne, I guess its plastic welded too, because it's on there solid. Im guessing the only way to clean it out is to basically remove the heat exchanger then.
I used a heat gun around the edges to warm up the gasket, came off with no issues. it wouldn't budge until i warmed it up.
? if the inducer fan motor assembly was not pulling enough negative pressure and the system has some flame roll-out why did the pressure switch not shut the system down? I thought the engineers select a pressure switch rating to shut the system off BEFORE a problem.
The pressure switch is not sensitive to the actual mass flow and mixture like a car mass flow sensor is. The main purpose of the pressure switch is to just tell the control board that the exhaust fan is running and moving some air. The newer carrier furnaces are over sensitive and would probably pick up slight drops in pressure using a second pressure switch to detect back pressure in the exhaust system. But, I have never seen a pressure switch detect excessive suction from a clogged heat exchanger.
Should you do this just as a regular service every so often?
No. It is pretty rare that a secondary heat exchanger clogges up. Natural gas burns very clean with no soot.
So it will make the high limit switch stop shutting my heater down?
The symptom of a clogged heat exchanger is extreme poisonous smelly gas on the exhaust and flame roll out at the burner jets. It will shut down on flame roll out sensor. Also, make sure to have a carbon monoxide detector in the home. This is a dangerous condition if exhaust gasses enter the house.
@@NathansHVAC the dust was so thick on the coil I could peel it off like carpet it was fine after that, well after I replaced the inducer motor it was good
If you can't take it apart, can you pour CLR or something similar in to break down the built-up crud? 🤔
The carrier secondary heat exchangers clog with rust and flakes of metal falling off the heat exchanger walls. Chemical isn't going to clean them. However, they usually are warrantied for 20 years.
@@NathansHVAC 👍
Can I leave the strips out of the heat exchanger?
Only the manufacturer can answer that question. I know some techs do leave out the turbulators. I would imagine the exhaust will run hotter without them. That could be bad if the exhaust runs hot enough to melt plastic. Personally, i try not to alter the design of safety related items like heaters.
Is missing one turbulator a big deal? Thanks in advance.
A few missing are fine. But, to many missing will lower the efficiency and start cooking the plastic exhaust parts. That would be bad. Twisting them in helps.
What happens if one of the turbulators gets bent or broken? Would it be a big problem if one of the tubes didn't have one or should it be replaced?
One broken or missing is fine.
Hvac tech in Winnipeg. Had a lnx El296 at least 5yrs ago that was missing 1 turbulator. It melted the inside of the collector to the point where I had to remove it and apply alot of silicone to inside as it melted where the 2 tubes go for the pressure switch and it no longer made draft. This was a factory issue so we made lnx pay some labour and replaced heat exchanger for the cust. 1st and only time I've seen this. Cool video about cleaning these things.
Why do installers aim the termination down? Aim that shit straight out like the manual says. It gives the exhaust a better flow and less restriction. Also none of these new installers do initial gas pressure adjustments, which greatly increases the life of the entire heat exchanger assembly.
Do you find that it makes a smell in the home also?
I'm just found that today on a 200 year old house using an oil burner. Your not supposed to get any smell in the house other than occasionall dust burning at the start of the season. If you can smell exhaust in the house, it is a dangerous condition from venting or a heat exchanger hole.
@@NathansHVAC thank you
I can’t get my turbulators back in. Any suggestions?
Twist them to the right as you insert them.
Is there a chance you didn't get all of the junk out?
Put a wire nut on your silicone. Why did it take this long for me to learn this tip?? Thanks!!
Never stop learning
i think this my issue. i have checked and messed with everything else lol.
That secondary is rotted out.
Why not the pressure switch not cutting off when inducer slows down. Bad design
Only the new carrier furnaces do that.
@@NathansHVAC This happened to the York I just cleaned too.
Are you a trained technician?
I try to be. Been doing this stuff almost 40 years now.
But if you are saying just junk the furnace, it does seem like it is running a little rich a year later. Ill know next year if it clogs again and needs to be put down.
@@NathansHVAC Hopefully by now you’ve replaced that HE or the furnace itself, because that HE is failed which is why its sooting.
You know what we found when my husband pulled out one of the turbulators?? A WASP! How It got all the way to there I have no idea, and I'm hoping it was a queen who died before she could make a nest. I don't know what we'll do if there is a nest in there. This thing was completely black and long dead though.
I have been going crazy trying to find out what is causing this terrible odor when the furnace is running. The only way I can describe the smell is wet laundry you forgot about for a few days, only very strong. It smells in the house and coming out the vent outside, only when it's running. I've tried other fixes that didn't work before I finally found this video. I think this could be it! I know the best thing to do is hire someone but we have NO MONEY at all right now. We are desperate. Thank you so much for this.
Why do I feel so tired. I've just been smelling 90%ers all day 5 days a week
Why clean it, replace it. No sense in the customer dumping money into a old system, they don’t increase in value with age guys..
how to get carbon monoxide poisoning 101
You're just pissed because you couldn't screw another customer over buying a new furnace.
This is a waste of time your flame still looks like trash just replace the furnace the time it takes to clean a hx is not worth it.