Carrier Furnaces: Heat Exchanger Recall⚖️💰
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- In this video we are going to talk about the Carrier furnace law and why these heat exchangers for high efficiency furnaces manufactured between 2002 - 2012 went through a recall.
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Thank you for the great explanation - we have a Bryant and this exact problem. First tech suggested complete replacement of system and second opinion new about the warranty coverage.
Right on glad you enjoyed it! We normally recommend replacement but that’s because most of these systems are 20 years old at this point too and people are planning to upgrade anyways. We find these in a lot of new builds because the single stage version were a budget model and new construction requires high efficiency furnaces in Colorado, and most of the US I believe
Just had the same thing here in Ohio. Quoted $2800 to replace the heat exchange but tech told me its a bad idea given the 'not a recall' recall. Unit is 12 years old which is pretty disappointing.
The house has active dampeners for 4 zones that don't really work at all. Pretty sure they used 1.5 inch pvc for venting as well which seems to have caused lockouts when temps took nosedive.
Ah the fun of homeownership
Sounds like a valid diagnosis/recommendation, surprised on the 1.5” venting lol yikes!
You should have explained what the design flaw was.
The material they used clogs the passages of the hxc they refuse to admit fault.
06 carrier went bad ,2023 replaced.both heat exchangers, parts covered. $800 labor, selling house in 2 years.
I would never recommend replacing the heat exchanger because they just plug up and go bad again. It’s a faulty design which is why there’s a class action. They teach this at Heat Exchanger Experts classes in Loveland, CO
so he should have spend thousands on a new furnace only to move in 2 years? come on.
furnace replacement is more profitable and less risky than heat exchanger replacement which is why it is pushed. @@TheHVACDopeShow
Nice work
Carrier now really sucks, I filed a claim with Carrier under the recall and ordered the parts got the comfirmation number and I thorght all was good after all this was the 13th replacement I have done in about 2yrs, but today was very different when the clerk at the counter told me the customer had to pony up $3500,00 until i returned the damaged parts and then they would issue a refund check, needless to say I sold the cust a different furnace installed for $2000.00 (mercy install) installed and I still plan to persue the warranty from my garage after I strip this down and return the parts for another project, I can nolonger recommend Carrier as a option.
Yikes yeah that’s pretty bad! lol $3500 seems pretty steep for a heat exchanger deposit.
Bryant dealer here, the heat exchangers are readily available from our distributor. Change these heat exchangers all the time.
same here
I don’t know anyone who replaces the heat exchanger because they’re a flawed design, and the replacements still fail?
We replace secondary heat exchangers from time to time but not on that model. Thank you for commenting though, always good to hear different experiences!
@@TheHVACDopeShow I'm a Bryant dealer in Northfield Minnesota and most of my competitors are carrier dealers and so I deal with this Heat exchanger often because it is roughly 70% of the residential Market in my area and our Bryant distributor auer Steel covers the cost of replacing the heat exchanger both parts and labor primary and secondary if the furnace is under 20 years old and so we replace this heat exchanger probably every other week, but typically I'm seeing them plug on LP not natural gas and typically I'm seeing them plug after 15 years and typically the failure of the heat exchanger correlates with another problem like high or low gas pressure or a high limit that is stuck open and you may call the heat exchanger a flawed design but on the modulating furnaces it reaches 98% efficiency according to my combustion analysis tool.
The only furnace that I've ever had set off a carbon monoxide detector was a high efficiency York unit
@@TheHVACDopeShow so are you saying that the heat exchangers supplied by Carrier for failures covered by warranty have not been upgraded in any way to prevent the type of failure that motivated the original class action suit?
I am the original owner of a Bryant (11/2007 install) that is covered by the settlement and last week the tech diagnosed clogged heat exchanger and a CO exhaust reading of 4900 ppm. Multiple in house CO readings read zero, but out of caution we have shut down the furnace and are now limping along with space heaters over the long Thanksgiving holiday waiting to hear from the installer regarding parts availability and possible replacement date.
It’s not a recall it’s a warranty bulletin. Per my companies carrier guy. We’re not allowed to tell customers it’s a recall legally.
My boss had one these furnaces blow up on him huge fire ball was in the hospital and all Carrier paid for everything new furnace and medical bills
That’s wild! I’ve never heard of that happening but definitely don’t repair them because of this heat exchanger
Thanks good info
No problem!
Similar situation here, i called technician to take a look at my furnace that would shut off periodically and flame was orange. After inspection he said it was the secondary heat exchager and sadly he couldnt do anything other than suggest me to replace the unit which i found would be covered by warranty. furnace is functional but it keeps hitting the limit and shuts off, also tech suggested to keep the temp inside low like upper 50's.
My question is ;if the orange flame and the limit switch getting triggered are the obvious signs of secondary heat exchanger? Or are there any other symptoms? I will greatly appreciate any input
That’s one sign but it depends on the heat exchanger each one is different. For example tubular goodmans that fail when they’re oversized for the ducts or overfired, will have a jumping flame or blowback when the fan kicks on, and these are obvious signs, but some systems (like the Lennox whisper heat) also crack in predictable locations and so we check these areas for cracks visually in addition. But the carrier heat exchanger in this video just plugs up and puts out a weird chemical almost sulfur smell inside the cabinet / exhaust and sometimes intake, so we just know when we see “pressure switch” error code on these that it’s commonly a heat exchanger issue. Other symptoms of secondary heat exchanger failure will vary by unit but we check it visually by pulling the blower and also you can pull the inducer and / or secondary heat exchanger cover on the fire wall and see if there’s signs of damage. Hope that helps. A limit switch can be a lot of things so I would normally inspect the heat exchanger and evap coil (if you have AC) to make sure the coil and secondary heat exchanger is clean because dirty / restrictive airflow conditions will always cause issues with high limit switches tripping, but those will often be separate issues too, and not always necessarily related.
Also it’s worth noting an orange flame on a new system is a sign of incomplete combustion or a dirty burn (running rich / too much gas normally) so if you do a combustion analysis / tune it properly on startup you can reduce these types of issues.
I have one of these diagnosed as clogged heat exchanger
Correct it’s plugged up, it’s a flawed heat exchanger design and that’s one thing that starts to happen… it’s if you looked inside the secondary heat exchanger it would be dunked up / corroded. They also get pinholes which is how they start to leak CO
carbon monoxide (co) is deadly .
since the 3 furnaces are the same manufacturer you can exchange parts between them unless like apple they code the electronic parts to only work with their system. (i doubt they would do that if they want to keep costs down).
if the home detector goes off it may be too late as it is possible to get symptoms on a lot less.
how does a blower puncture a heat exchanger?
(On top of looping around the point about 5 times before coming out with it) He never said it was the blower that punctured the heat exchanger. He said there was a manufacturing defect that lead to the exchangers developing pinholes. Im guessing whatever they used to weld the exchanger together didnt use proper shielding gas and the acrid fumes of the flue gas slowly corroded the weld seams.
Also, there is only one symptom of CO poisoning you really want to avoid.....DEATH! If you suddenly realize CO was the reason you got headaches when you laid on the down stairs floor, i mean that sucks you got a headache, but at least the alarm went off before you ya know died.... If you're really worried about it, spend the money and get one of the monitoring devices, preferably one that graphs over time. Or one that plugs into a computer so you can log and graph the data. Alarms are just that, alarms. Meant to go ape scat at the appropriate time. They're not gentle warning buddies. They are threshold calibrated "GET THE FRIGG OUT NOW!!!!" buddies.
Also also, water is deadly in high enough quantities. Saying something is deadly is kind of meaningless without context. Though, it is agreeable to state that its dangerous, undetectable to humans, and needs to be checked for regularly.
Itd be unnecessarily costly to put some sort of parts DRM into HVAC units, all they do is wait for the thermostat to send 24v to close a set of relays, either initiating the furnace start up sequence (check out Technology Connections for a good video on all of that) or the compressor pump, then the air handler fan. Its literally just self contained systems with basic on-off signal wires between them. And with the Maker age of more people that understand electronics, it would be simple to rip out whatever stupid restrictive technology they tried to make stand in our way. Ironically the answer is for a company to make their products MORE customizable and hackable, not this brain dead pursuit of their walled garden ecosystem propped up by taking open standards but calling them a different name so the customer thinks its special but really any electronic has be able to do that for a decade.....like DLNA....er sorry, DIAL.....er sorrry UPNP........er, sorry Smart Casting.......er sorry.......... Just look at all the brand names for CEC, the standard you didnt know all your HD screens have to tell the source device what its capabilities are and for your tv remote to control the source units without worrying about IR codes and universal remotes. That is of course supposing they implemented it fully....which no one ever does.....because of the idea that customers are stupid and can be easily tricked into aforementioned branded yet open standards anyone can implement. Yeah, want to know why you cant just flick video from your phone to your TV like IronMan? Its because they bastardize the standard, purchase a half implemented version and crowbar it into their product, then when no one uses it, they just do it again next season but only implement the other half of the standard so there is no compatibility even between their own products. The first of these faux tech companies to actually make the effort into opening their platforms and fully implement things will make BANK hand over fist from the hacker/maker crowd having decent products they dont have to wrestle with to get basic functionality from all because Jessica in marketing didnt use those features so assumed no one used it and didnt put it in...... But they dont want to make money by making their products easier to use in ways they dont expect you to. They want to keep you stupid and blind to the wool they pull over our eyes so we only notice the flashy shiny thing, not the ways they're screwing us and the environment over with crap that works well enough to keep but annoying enough to replace when the new shiny comes out. I honestly dont understand why we are so complacent in being treated as idiots so we can send more money to china....... Maybe I expect too much from humanity...... Wouldnt be the first time.......
On this model the Blower wheel doesn’t puncture the secondary… I was saying on other systems I’ve seen blower wheels go bad and puncture the secondary heat exchanger. This is not common though
Don’t need to watch!
Not surprised…
Yeah its a scam.... Carrier wont give you, the customer, a replacement secondary heat exchange, they make you go through one of their "dealers" to get it, who all refuse to sell you or install just the secondary. They all insist on replacing the primary, even when there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and then try to tack on an extra $1500 that has to come out of the customers pocket, which pretty much forces you to buy a new furnace, which carrier conveniently offers a discount towards as an alternative to offering the replacement parts that no one will give you. Theyre using the class action suit against them as a marketing scheme to sell you an entire furnace, which of course our corrupt legal system is perfectly fine with. Only in America can the rich and corrupt make even more off their scam by being sued. The court finds them responsible for making plastic heat exchangers and as punishment orders them to scam the victims a 2nd time. What a joke
Carrier infinity 58mvc-100. Installed 2010 Started tripping out on code 13-33. Last year. Will run when system is in full fire. Dealer wants to replace for $9500. Will replacing the heat exchanger fix problem?
Technically yes but temporarily… it’s money to the wind and we don’t replace heat exchangers on these furnaces we just replace the furnace because it’s a faulty design and they didn’t fix the design flaw the replacements still plug up. Best case scenario it will buy you a few more years but at 2010 it’s already 14 years old so best case scenario you’ve got 6 or so years of life left. We do heat exchanger replacements when they’re damaged sometimes but not on this particular system because of the heat exchanger design. Hope that helps!
But if you’re in a pinch and just need it to last another year or two before replacement for example and just want to do the cheapest possible repair you can technically replace the heat exchanger… some of the other commenters that sound like contractors have alluded to this but we just have a different frame of thought. We just find if we do expensive repairs on old systems people get frustrated… it’s like replacing an engine on a car with 300k miles (assuming it’s not a classic or hot rod or something obviously)
Yes. Planning on moving in a year or two. Probably do a quick fix.
So the real answer is NO it won't fix the problem I have replaced these at great pain and the problem returned within 3wks I went so far as to raise the limit (bad idea) because of the f33-31 error code and dialed down the gas pressure, got them through the winter replaced the furnace in the spring with a 80% and when I contacted the customer the following winter he said there was no real change in his fuel bill.
I had a Bryant furnace installed in 2012, and I had been smelling gas for years, although my Bryant technician could never detect that. This year, my Bryant warranty expired, and I am looking for a new HVAC system because I don’t want to inhale this deadly gas this winter. I was looking into all electric HVAC, and a HVAC dealer recommend geothermal heat pump , which can be extremely expensive upfront. Or, a Daikin Fit system , which cost more heating in the winter time. So, what furnace do you recommend? Lennox? Trane? Every time when I mention the Carrier heat exchanger recall, no HVAC company wants to talk to me, is this because all high efficiency furnace has this problem?
Most furnaces have had issues periodically, but the Carrier was a poor design that caused extremely premature failure... Geothermal can be a good option, definitely expensive install up front, and Daikin Fit heat pump might not cost more to heat but it depends on your region and gas vs. electricity prices. Technically heat pumps are about 400% efficient at converting electricity to heat compared to traditional electric heat (extremely expensive to run, think space heaters)
Trane 90% leak. Carriers new 90% are actually really good furnaces.
2012 furnace could be worth putting a new secondary into. the part is covered by warranty.
i disagree with not replacing secondaries on these furnaces.
even though it is a poor design, if it is properly sloped and gas pressure set right as well as blower speed, the secondary will last quite a while.
If a furnace is 10 to 15 years old secondary replacement may extend life by 5 to 10 years and be worth it especially with carrier covering part of labor. this being said, units closer to 20 years old are not worth fixing.if there is an install/sizing related problem the new secondary may fail quickly.
Right on thanks for the feedback yeah it’s ultimately up to the customer we just have found customers would rather not spend the money normally we’re looking at 15 -20 year old systems when we see these so they’re normally leaning towards replacement after we explain the blower and inducer and other wear and tear items could still fail. It just depends on what they’re trying to accomplish, thanks for the comment!