I think that if I was teal, I would have knocked out a few houses in my raid. Never underestimate the effects of wrecking your opponent's houses, especially earlier in the game, when they're not spamming houses to free up a lot of room. 2-3 houses could screw up their production pretty badly, and that's what irked me the most about watching this. lol
I would have also hit some farms as well as houses. Forcing him to actually SPEND resources to build back(60 wood per farm when you are behind is no cheap matter) is really underrated.
I think he still would have been better off with the knight line, because the tarkans are essentially crappy knights with a damage bonus vs. buildings and the only building he destroyed was the TC in the initial rush. At least he should have changed to knights and/or cav archers around 20:00 when the eagle warriors started coming in. Anyone agree?
MuMMy may should have attacked the first castle of green after it got up. Maybe he would have destroyed it before the green guy researched Murder Holes!? :D
Acutally I did something quick in editor and maybe massing Two Handed swordsman would be still good idea. In editor swordsman won 1v1 and and they cost less gold. Huns' scropions does nothing at all to Eagle warrior, maybe mix some mangonels with two handed sw .. :(
that exactly. Well, they get completely destroyed by plumed archers but then the tarkans would shine again. At least, 2H swordsmen would have been a better defense than to just commit into tarkans
The Tarkans are used well for two minutes, between 14 and 16 minutes in. They have a bonus against buildings. And the combination with Petards was crucial. But after 20 minutes there are many buildings by the Mayans in between the fortresses that the Tarkans should have been attacking after another Huns unit engaged the Eagle Warriors. The Eagle Warriors, in turn, should have been attacking the Trebuchets, with their bonus vs siege
Great new series Res, commentating on these more unique games certainly keeps the game fresh! I'm wondering if you'll find a game that showcases "garrisoned" battering rams :p
Blue should have taken out green's temple early on. Also he really didn't use the Tarkan's mobility effectively, he hanged back to much while he should have been trying to pop-block green across the map.
Ok unrelated to this particular game, but I am absolutely sure I saw The Viper playing on the exact same map. I mean, it was absolutely identical to this one. Guess that shows these maps aren't as randomly generated as we think
Nice series idea :) Cool to see tarkans being used by a huns player. PS any chance you'll upload last stream's 4v4 BF regicide where you massed samurai?
A quick question: I get why Green (Alive) chose to use EEW but why not also pad out your army with halbs earlier? I ask because it was clear that he was struggling for gold ( he delayed El Dorado for way to long), he was floating a lot of wood and food, his opponent was going purely for cav and apart from the pike / halberdier upgrade, his pikes were FU.
(late reply) Well as you said, he was obviously struggling for gold and the halb upgrade is 600 gold. It's pretty spendy for a unit that overs almost no offensive presence.
I'm not a native english speaker but I understand almost everything out of it, but I can't quite understand the part when he says something like "We all seen a fair tone of gali rushes and knights", but what does exactly he say?. Thanks :D
+AlexseN1996 he said "we've all seen our fair share of galley rushes and knights", meaning that it's pretty usual to see people rushing with these kinds of units, while it's rare to see players even creating tarkans at all, let alone mass them :)
+AlexseN1996 Keep going the game only gets better the more you play! :) rushing with knights (and galleys on water maps) is so common because it is very cost effective and can deal a lot of damage to the enemy's economy early in the game
I've been watching your videos and I like how you can see such a big area. everything's so close on my computer I waste time moving the screen around with my mouse
i know that problem aswell...you have to change your general screen resolution options for your monitor...higher resolution will make it all zoomed out :) though your monitor has to support higher resolution
the hun tarkan rush on arena is actually a viable strategy! Ive seen it done at about 15 mins, 10 tarkans by 18 mins etc, as we all know.. tarkans have ridic hp and pierce armor :P
i did a test of a byzantine elite skirm vs a elite plumed archer and while the plumed did only 1 dmg per shot the skirm did 5. so why are the plumed archers considered op? or am i missing something?
4evrFireify 1v1 skirms are direct counters to archers. try comparing plums vs light cavalry and skirms vs light cavalry. u will get a different result. overall skirms are good against archers only but plumed are better agaisnt many units and decent agaisnt others
4evrFireify Plummed are archers with a high rate of fire, high mobility, and higher than average hit points. They are also quite cheap and produce quickly. They aren't quite OP, but they are very solid units that are difficult to counter in much the same way as cav archers.
this rush should be easier now because tarkan can be created in stable now
7 років тому+1
He failed because he : Didn't destroy Monastery (would do some eco damage because relic gold) Didn't destroy the TC on the north (he could had done that, attacking villagers with tarkans is not as important as destroying buildings that can produce them - could produce more of petards to do this) Had he done that he could make more eco damage.
He also didn't destroy any farms or houses. Knights could have done what he did but with greater numbers. Seriously, did he even play Attila the Hun campaign? If he did, he would have known one thing about Tarkans- they destroy houses and farms in an instant.
+Mike M Just got to have the right civ vs the right civ. I think Teal misused the Tarkans just a little, and I think Green got quite lucky that he did. In his raid attempts, it was pretty sad how much he didn't use those Tarkans for their intended purpose. Houses would have been a fantastic target when his opponent was hiding out in his TCs. A bunch of Tarkans on one house could obliterate it quickly, and that fouls up villager production pretty bad. Also, I, personally, am not a fan of "spamming". It's just a contest of throwing crap at the wall, and seeing how much of it sticks. Spamming a unit as situational as a Tarkan is asking to be countered, and whooped. Teal had it coming.
+AgentJonathan Yea I also feel that a lot of eco could have been damaged just in mills and farms, which would again require green to reseed and rebuild everything - prolonging his eco suffering even more. I'd say that just like villagers, military units shouldn't have too much idle time cus you only get value from them when they apply pressure.
HECKproductions Huns ARE pretty good on water actually, at least early on. No houses is again huge saving a lot of wood(especially when you need that wood and pop space for fishing ships) allowing for galley rush potential.
i guess if the huns player raided more in the start n went all in from thee he could have made the green quit in the castle age itself, since imperial age sucks for hunns :P
The Hun player while making no big mistakes whatsoever, he couldn`t finish the game, it was really ugly to see a damaged Mayan even without crucial upgrades could turn around it... (the Mayan civ. seems to be really overpowered - at least with the eyes of a non-playing specator :) )
why does green stay with the same unit compilation. either way teal would be building people on horses, why doesn't green build dudes with spears. At least that is my understanding
because eagle warriors do actually beat tarkans and more importantly, once they do, they can actually threaten blue's base. So I assume, green didn't want to spend a lot of ressources to upgrade their spearmen. Dunno if it was the right decision to just go full eagles but it worked out so it apparently wasn't the wrong decision either (on a side note, 100 HP and 13 effective base attack vs. cavalry is pretty decent for a unit that costs 70 ressources)
I think this would've worked better if he had forced his opponent into Halbs and then transitioned into something else instead of going for elite tarkans.
mayan elite eagles do surprisingly well against paladins once they get el dorado, but pals are of course better than tarkans in that situation. Its a kinda even-ish trade, although with armies of equal cost, the eagles actually beat the paladins. Also, halberdiers are a thing and happen to also be produced in barracks
mayan elite eagle warriors are cost efficient against paladins actually (not gold efficient but the longer lasting ressources help to offset that),. Also, halberdiers are a thing
Should had responded to tarkans with pikes and plummed archers. Hun player should had made not more tarkans but long swordsman that defeats eagle warriors and pikes. So why is this a pro game then ?
teching into different units is expensive and eagles beat tarkans (with el dorado), so why switch? It is true that blue should have tried something different though
I think the blue player should have stayed in the green area and cut off pieces from the green economy and restrict the green to a smaller area, not just do a couple hit and run attacks.
the hun player didn't commit enough in his offense; he should've done heavier trades when he was on top of things.
More break the meta please. I love doing unexpected things.
at the beginning teal "hasnt found his sheep yet" but they are right in the LOS of his walls 11
The map is so unfair, look in the left cornor of the map
Pretty common, seems one player gets at least one super safe back gold while the other is all forward
I think that if I was teal, I would have knocked out a few houses in my raid. Never underestimate the effects of wrecking your opponent's houses, especially earlier in the game, when they're not spamming houses to free up a lot of room. 2-3 houses could screw up their production pretty badly, and that's what irked me the most about watching this. lol
+AgentJonathan I would've done my second raid through the back. That could also have been nasty.
I would have also hit some farms as well as houses. Forcing him to actually SPEND resources to build back(60 wood per farm when you are behind is no cheap matter) is really underrated.
I am kinda sad that he didn't try to counter the halberdiers with 2handed swordsmen. I mean, they DO actually win 1v1 against the eagle warriors still
I think he still would have been better off with the knight line, because the tarkans are essentially crappy knights with a damage bonus vs. buildings and the only building he destroyed was the TC in the initial rush. At least he should have changed to knights and/or cav archers around 20:00 when the eagle warriors started coming in. Anyone agree?
Who cares, knights are overused, it's nice to see a UNIQUE unit used in a game.
MuMMy may should have attacked the first castle of green after it got up. Maybe he would have destroyed it before the green guy researched Murder Holes!? :D
Keep the break the meta vids coming Res!
This is really interesting. I'm looking forward the next video for the awesome Break the Meta series. Keep 'em coming. :)
Acutally I did something quick in editor and maybe massing Two Handed swordsman would be still good idea. In editor swordsman won 1v1 and and they cost less gold. Huns' scropions does nothing at all to Eagle warrior, maybe mix some mangonels with two handed sw .. :(
+Bruno Czech huns on arena is just a shame....
I was thinking that. Two-Handed Swordsmen would have been a good counter to Eagle Warriors and Halberdiers.
that exactly. Well, they get completely destroyed by plumed archers but then the tarkans would shine again. At least, 2H swordsmen would have been a better defense than to just commit into tarkans
The Tarkans are used well for two minutes, between 14 and 16 minutes in. They have a bonus against buildings. And the combination with Petards was crucial. But after 20 minutes there are many buildings by the Mayans in between the fortresses that the Tarkans should have been attacking after another Huns unit engaged the Eagle Warriors. The Eagle Warriors, in turn, should have been attacking the Trebuchets, with their bonus vs siege
"petard rush"
boy you've better called it OPERATION WEINERSTORM
I donot get the reference
We need more britons action. Get the longbows! ;)
I like it when you say: "Hello everyone, Resonance here"
Great new series Res, commentating on these more unique games certainly keeps the game fresh! I'm wondering if you'll find a game that showcases "garrisoned" battering rams :p
Blue should have taken out green's temple early on. Also he really didn't use the Tarkan's mobility effectively, he hanged back to much while he should have been trying to pop-block green across the map.
Ok unrelated to this particular game, but I am absolutely sure I saw The Viper playing on the exact same map. I mean, it was absolutely identical to this one. Guess that shows these maps aren't as randomly generated as we think
huns are at such a big disadvantage againest mayans on arena going tarkens was a ballsy move and it great to see it almost worked :)
this series is a great idea Res, keep em coming bro :)
I want to see that match up again I'm sure it can work. I think he needed another support unit.
Nice series idea :) Cool to see tarkans being used by a huns player.
PS any chance you'll upload last stream's 4v4 BF regicide where you massed samurai?
Why does your camera blur every time you move the screen
That has nothing to do with his capturing program, that's just how youtube's video compression works.
This tactic is absolutly beautiful
A quick question:
I get why Green (Alive) chose to use EEW but why not also pad out your army with halbs earlier? I ask because it was clear that he was struggling for gold ( he delayed El Dorado for way to long), he was floating a lot of wood and food, his opponent was going purely for cav and apart from the pike / halberdier upgrade, his pikes were FU.
(late reply) Well as you said, he was obviously struggling for gold and the halb upgrade is 600 gold. It's pretty spendy for a unit that overs almost no offensive presence.
@Jim Bob it's because he can't take down tc's with cavalry archers
Love this new series, keep it comiiiiiing!!
Hey Res, how would I be able to cast videos like you?
Would make more sense to just go knights or?
I'm not a native english speaker but I understand almost everything out of it, but I can't quite understand the part when he says something like "We all seen a fair tone of gali rushes and knights", but what does exactly he say?.
Thanks :D
+AlexseN1996 he said "we've all seen our fair share of galley rushes and knights", meaning that it's pretty usual to see people rushing with these kinds of units, while it's rare to see players even creating tarkans at all, let alone mass them :)
Alexis Hdr. Thank you buddy, I'm pretty new to AoE2, I only have around 40hours, so I'm still learning :3
+AlexseN1996 Keep going the game only gets better the more you play! :) rushing with knights (and galleys on water maps) is so common because it is very cost effective and can deal a lot of damage to the enemy's economy early in the game
I've been watching your videos and I like how you can see such a big area. everything's so close on my computer I waste time moving the screen around with my mouse
i know that problem aswell...you have to change your general screen resolution options for your monitor...higher resolution will make it all zoomed out :) though your monitor has to support higher resolution
You really do need a *_stable_* food income if you want *_cavalry_*
Unfortunately, a victory was just out of *range*
Tarkans are one of my favorites.
hey it is DLWillis from Twitch, keep up the good work man
the hun tarkan rush on arena is actually a viable strategy! Ive seen it done at about 15 mins, 10 tarkans by 18 mins etc, as we all know.. tarkans have ridic hp and pierce armor :P
i did a test of a byzantine elite skirm vs a elite plumed archer and while the plumed did only 1 dmg per shot the skirm did 5. so why are the plumed archers considered op? or am i missing something?
4evrFireify 1v1 skirms are direct counters to archers. try comparing plums vs light cavalry and skirms vs light cavalry. u will get a different result. overall skirms are good against archers only but plumed are better agaisnt many units and decent agaisnt others
4evrFireify Plummed are archers with a high rate of fire, high mobility, and higher than average hit points. They are also quite cheap and produce quickly. They aren't quite OP, but they are very solid units that are difficult to counter in much the same way as cav archers.
they are basically cavalry archers that don't require a billion upgrades to be good
Please less hints towards the outcome of the games.
He was watching the game for the first time, how can he hint the outcome if he doesn't know it?
This would actually work better in the new patch with Tarkans coming out of the stable.
Pablo Ramírez Olivieri Yeah you could get some seriously effective forward stables with that.
also, with the extra pierce armor tarkans have now, he could have just obliterated blue's entire base
this rush should be easier now because tarkan can be created in stable now
He failed because he :
Didn't destroy Monastery (would do some eco damage because relic gold)
Didn't destroy the TC on the north (he could had done that, attacking villagers with tarkans is not as important as destroying buildings that can produce them - could produce more of petards to do this)
Had he done that he could make more eco damage.
He also didn't destroy any farms or houses. Knights could have done what he did but with greater numbers. Seriously, did he even play Attila the Hun campaign? If he did, he would have known one thing about Tarkans- they destroy houses and farms in an instant.
This is why I hate Mayans/Aztecs. You can have someone utterly outplay someone using those civs and they'll still lose...
+Mike M Just got to have the right civ vs the right civ. I think Teal misused the Tarkans just a little, and I think Green got quite lucky that he did. In his raid attempts, it was pretty sad how much he didn't use those Tarkans for their intended purpose. Houses would have been a fantastic target when his opponent was hiding out in his TCs. A bunch of Tarkans on one house could obliterate it quickly, and that fouls up villager production pretty bad.
Also, I, personally, am not a fan of "spamming". It's just a contest of throwing crap at the wall, and seeing how much of it sticks. Spamming a unit as situational as a Tarkan is asking to be countered, and whooped. Teal had it coming.
+AgentJonathan Yea I also feel that a lot of eco could have been damaged just in mills and farms, which would again require green to reseed and rebuild everything - prolonging his eco suffering even more. I'd say that just like villagers, military units shouldn't have too much idle time cus you only get value from them when they apply pressure.
+Sad Catfish and they are basically useless on water maps if you put castles or towers on the shore
HECKproductions
Huns ARE pretty good on water actually, at least early on. No houses is again huge saving a lot of wood(especially when you need that wood and pop space for fishing ships) allowing for galley rush potential.
i guess if the huns player raided more in the start n went all in from thee he could have made the green quit in the castle age itself, since imperial age sucks for hunns :P
cant you use petards vs eagle warriors?
Very inefficient
Tocaraca obviously but would be real fun to watch and its exactly a break the meta because of inefficiency
And since it's so inefficient, no one expects it, therefore it becomes good! Kappa
The Hun player while making no big mistakes whatsoever, he couldn`t finish the game, it was really ugly to see a damaged Mayan even without crucial upgrades could turn around it... (the Mayan civ. seems to be really overpowered - at least with the eyes of a non-playing specator :) )
why does green stay with the same unit compilation. either way teal would be building people on horses, why doesn't green build dudes with spears. At least that is my understanding
because eagle warriors do actually beat tarkans and more importantly, once they do, they can actually threaten blue's base. So I assume, green didn't want to spend a lot of ressources to upgrade their spearmen. Dunno if it was the right decision to just go full eagles but it worked out so it apparently wasn't the wrong decision either
(on a side note, 100 HP and 13 effective base attack vs. cavalry is pretty decent for a unit that costs 70 ressources)
I think this would've worked better if he had forced his opponent into Halbs and then transitioned into something else instead of going for elite tarkans.
I'm calling this strat the "suprise mothafucker"
Super duper x 9000 :D
Tarkans are good but situational. Probably migrate to Paladins would be better. But both made i very good game!
he would have won if he was playing on hd with those expansion buffs
Don't paladins beat eagles? Eagles are like bad knights
mayan elite eagles do surprisingly well against paladins once they get el dorado, but pals are of course better than tarkans in that situation. Its a kinda even-ish trade, although with armies of equal cost, the eagles actually beat the paladins.
Also, halberdiers are a thing and happen to also be produced in barracks
>pro players
>green virtually deletes 4 trebs
Drinking game: Take a shot every time he says "like."
An army of tarkans and paladins would do the work
mayan elite eagle warriors are cost efficient against paladins actually (not gold efficient but the longer lasting ressources help to offset that),.
Also, halberdiers are a thing
Should had responded to tarkans with pikes and plummed archers. Hun player should had made not more tarkans but long swordsman that defeats eagle warriors and pikes. So why is this a pro game then ?
teching into different units is expensive and eagles beat tarkans (with el dorado), so why switch? It is true that blue should have tried something different though
I think the blue player should have stayed in the green area and cut off pieces from the green economy and restrict the green to a smaller area, not just do a couple hit and run attacks.
surprize jihad LMAO
break the meta.. too bad not many can invent new meta