If you enjoyed this video, check out a couple other videos I have on nonhumanoid species from other sci-fi franchises: Metroids ua-cam.com/video/KCF44IkUBYU/v-deo.html Heptapods (Arrival) ua-cam.com/video/aDsrYPhlO30/v-deo.html
Thanks Tyler,I been waiting for this one and ya didn't disappoint! Sure was hoping to see the "Inspector Tyler"again and I look forward to his return soon !!
@@BluesFishRico That's an excellent theory ! They certainly seem to have quality's of both.Also like them they may just be misunderstood and could become valuable allies someday.I must admit though the STNG episode when the Mother of one of the children eaten by the Crystal Entity kills it and then gets the doo doo from the ENTERPRISE crew who were trying to communicate with it seemed silly to me.I mean this massive "Snowflake"creature had wiped out countless humanoids and all life on many planets without hesitation without the slightest hesitation or care they may be sentient,intelligent life becouse to IT,all organic matter was food.By all indications it was of low,animal like intelligence and could never be reasoned with or trusted to continue roaming the Galaxy.Now that you mentioned it,I wonder if the THOLIANS knew of this creature in their space?Is it possible it was a "Superweapon"somehow grown or constructed by them to attack Federation Planets?The truth is out there !
@@jymfysher7704 guess. We cud also not blame the shark for being a shark….Klingons Spec 8472 . The Gorn All had interspecies communication problems..on TNG. They had a good episode Darmak that showed the price & challenge of this.
@@BluesFishRico Yep,you got that right.Here on Earth man must eliminate lifeforms that threaten our safety and existance.Thats not to mean ya go and wipe out all the sharks or any species,but we must keep their numbers down or else nobody can go for a swim if some predatory fish is going to likely be waiting to eat us,or a better example would be insects which will eat our crops and kill us if we ever give up our fight against them.(The #1killer of humans is actually a mosquito becouse of Malaria!)
Now i'm cought between a rock a hard a stone and i feel it's getting hot in here but your analysis was as cold as the blood of an Andorian and sharp as a Stalagmite.
Seem like with the radically different living habitats needed, yo would think the Tholians would get along with lots of other races. Negotiating to use the planets the humanoids avoid like the plague, the fit them very well, and letting humanoids use the more M class planets they don't care about. Seems like it would be a good relationship on both sides.
I love the thought of Tholians perceiving time differently than humanoids. An individual Tholian could have the memories of its progenitors going back centuries - if they do have a benefactor in the Temporal Cold War, it might just be their future selves!
Alternatively, they could be similar to their Star Trek Online versions, which are a wildcard in the temporal cold war due to having a fanatical hatred of all things time travel.
From the video I understood they live shorter than humans perceiving time normally for then, but faster like ants or dogs. Maybe their day cycle is shorter
@@foxxojones4757 You could rope that in with their perception of time. There abhorrent hatred could be due to the fact its disrupting their perception of things. And or why they are so xenophobic, as no other species sees the universe as they do. I love stuff like this.
apparently they have been going around sealing up and apprehending incidents related to time travel they really dont like it when races use time travel and apparently they show up to give said races a beating and fix up whatever damage to reality has been done to reality however the way they go about it was rather invasive as they almost destroyed a sun doing so
One thing that science fiction tends to get wrong about silicon-based life, theoretically, it need not even be crystalline. Very hot most likely but need not be any more crystalline than we carbon-based life forms need to be diamond-based. Silicon-based materials, like silicone in this video, are not all related to silicon-based crystals like glass and quartz.
I wish that Star Trek would use the Tholan more in the background. Ship comes to some planets and they see a tholan leaving but never really know what they doing or why.
It might be a challenge to not inadvertently imply to viewers that they were going to be important later on in the show, and especially if the crew were far away from their space, it might be hard to justify why they're there.
This was very fascinating. Great video! I liked it a lot. I had no idea that the Tholians or the Breen for that matter would have bigger territory than the Romulans or the Cardassians. The Tholians and the Breen are so mysterious, so enigmatic, and so isolated, they seem like minor powers.
IF the Tholians are involved with time-travel, then it might make sense that they are responsible - at least, in part - for their own creation/liberation. I came to this conclusion because in your video, it seems that the Tholians are more interested in preserving the 'status quo' of the time-stream, rather than siding with any one power, and thats indicative of a species who wants to preserve the _current iteration_ of the time-stream at all costs... perhaps a species that has already tampered with it long ago to their own benefit. Anyone making their own changes could thus jeopardize Tholian existence (because a 'manufactured' version of events is likely less stable than the naturally occurring one). Just a theory, mind you.
i believe that the Tholian are Connected to their Mirror counterpart they see what the other sees and has shared knowledge this gives them and edge and lead them into fucking with the future people in the Temporal Cold war and the Mirror Verse . if a recall the USS Defiant TOS received a distress call from the Tholians but in reality it was the Mirror Tholians luring them to get the teach into the past. what if both tholians planed it.
@@CommanderM117 Thats actually pretty cool, and by extension, its really a multiverse (ST:TnG _Parallels_ ), so what if the Tholians are linked to ALL their counterparts, much as Doctor Strange did that thing where he peered into millions of alternate timelines? That would mean the Tholians would be aware of nearly ALL possibilities, and could steer their own timeline to their best advantage. I would imagine they would be unbeatable chess players.
@@marktaylor6553 True and to avoid people figuring it out they play the Part of being xenophobic in order to avoid long term contact with other races and their big secret getting out as well as in turn protecting them from fighting unless necessary. they needed the USS Defiant because the Terrans at the time where being more aggressive on the Mirror side so they sent that ship over to get a jump start to defend them selves.
@@bobross4886 If you read the commentary below about the Tholians being connected to other versions of themselves, then it could be possible that the Tholians (in ALL quantum universes) are the _same_ Tholians, and so your theory works, because they are indeed extra-dimensional in nature, and 'extensions' of themselves are projected into various quantum realities.
You missed the Corals that also make use of Silicates. I have some in my legs, where the Fibula and Tibia of each leg suffered a burn that destroyed the bones. The Silicates used in Corals are Calcium Silicate, which can be “cooked” at very high temperatures to convert it to Calcium Carbonate, which is what out bones are made out of. The Coral splint is machined into the shape of the bone it is to replace, and it is then grafted into the bone with a bio-degradable epoxy resin. The coral-calcium-carbonate “bone” really just forms a scaffolding that our bones will grow into/over. This process even allows the marrow to re-grow into the section of bone replaced. It is ironic that this process produces stronger bone than the original (although not surprising, now that I have studied enough Biology, where I have learned that Evolution doesn’t “optimize,” and thus pretty-much every part of our bodies can be EASILY improved upon, even if we cannot yet implement those improvements). Theoretically it should be possible to replace 100% of our Skeletons with bone made in this fashion, producing a skeleton that is not just stronger, but augmented to allow greater ranges-of-motion, and muscle-attachment points either further or closer to the joints (depending upon requirements) to produce up to a 2.5× amplification of Strength without any modification of the Muscles themselves. Obviously Medical Ethics would prevent Elective Applications (people doing this by demanding a surgeon replace bones without a medical necessity) of the technologies. But that is only a matter of time before the augmentations produced by such procedures are safe enough, and pronounced enough in the degree of augmentation that doctors will perform them on those willing to pay, or governments using such methods on soldiers to produce better “Weaponize Humans.” The Para-Olympian Aimee Mullins has said that the Prosthetic Legs she uses in competitions can beat any human with natural legs, and that even those are not yet at the limits of the technology. Such legs could be created right now that allow a human to run at speeds over 100kph, and possibly higher, but they are not due to the rules of the Para-Olympics, and the ethics of creating such prostheses, given that the human choosing to use them would likely not be able to survive a fall if running at those speeds. BUT… Bit of a Tangent… corals… Silicates…
Great Job!!! I've been a Star Trek fan for 55 years now (I'm 59 years old, as you know the 1st Trek episode premiered on Sept 8, 1966, which was the day before my 4th birthday) In ALL these years I've been a fan, and though I knew some of what you said, I NEVER KNEW THIS MUCH about the Tholians!!! Keep up the good work!!! George B. from the Boston area!!!
George G Balzano...I was 11 years old when Star Trek came on TV in 1966. I was in front of the TV. I've been a Trekkie ever since. I'll be 66 in November, and I still watch Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock. Then there's Voyager, Deep Space Nine, The Next Generation, Enterprise, all of Star Trek.
I wish there would be a new Star Trek series that takes place between TOS and TNG. Besides the Klingons and Romulans, also feature the Tholians and THE GORN!! Thank you for your amazing content!!
First episode viewer, here, too. I was 8 and watched with my 15 year old brother who good naturedly fielded my many questions. Those were exciting times! Every boy at school had a model of the LEM in his room. I seen to recall seeing ads for the model kits for 10 cents in the back of a comic book. After the excitement of the Apollo program I was super disappointed that the best we could do was a flying bus. Why weren't we going to Mars? Now, I think sending robots out there is our best bet, after all.
Glad you covered the Tholians; they've been woefully under-used in the Trek universe(s). I believe i have heard that some of our own insects have silicon in their biology, although it's a vague item in my memory. As for Tholia orbiting a blue-giant, well, evolution could be much faster on such worlds as I think you noted. Or they could have been engineered there alternatively. As for the Temporal Cold War, I'm unsure of this has been mentioned somewhere (it probably has), but the idea of changing history to this race, or that's advantage has been used in literary science fiction for a long time (pun intended). The best example is maybe Fritz Leiber, Jr.'s "Change War" sequence. These include THE BIG TIME (1958), and THE MIND SPIDERS AND OTHER STORIES (1961). Isaac Asimov's THE END OF ETERNITY from 1955 features "Time Police" from the future, humans, although I can't recall at this point of aliens were involved here as well. In any case, the similarities most closely resemble Leiber's sequence. Just some interesting trivia I thought I would point out w/o accusing anyone of borrowing ideas, mind you.
@@lifeinthevoid1595 I always like it when they try to create something other than the humans with bumpy noses and monculture exactly the same as some narrow aspect of our history. ;)
Saying that complex life based upon silicon would be akin to crystals because we all know silicon as glass is like them imagining us the same way because they have diamonds and imagine our carbon-based life as only possible on demon-class planets because of how much energy is needed in such diamond-based life. Silicon-based life would be far more fluid and because of their nature far more amicable to all carbon-based life because of the underdog issue.
I hoped we get something like this on screen, but they went a different route with Discovery. The Vanguard story's are awesome. The mix between civil and star fleet for example, actions on the station and in space, the Shedai mystery. Just great.
@@maximimaxima3327 The Shedai bit was woven so well into many mysteries. It was awesome. If only they would do something animated in the style of the DC animated movies. Not expensive and I know it would sell well. I feel Lower Decks and Prodigy has better writers than their live action.
Nice, highly detailed video. The Tholians were one of my favorite alien antagonist races from the original series. I didn't watch enough of the other series to know they ever made a comeback. I've gotten weary of the the movies that seem to use just Romulans and Klingons as the villains. How about a Tholian with a chip on his shoulder next time. I would also like to see more of the Melkotians who seemed interested in joining the Federation in the original series episode they were in.
I really enjoy the episodes where the Tholians appear. They're super mysterious and imposing, and thank you again for pulling in the cool real world science!! This was an excellent video! Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you guys. ✝️ :)
I choose to believe that the Tholians signed the non aggression pact with the Dominion less out of fear and more out of a desire to just be left alone.
plus they can sit back and get the pop corn out seeing the war play out. if they did get attacked they could simply hide in the Mirror verse with their other half and repopulated after.
Something I've just noticed as an avid Star Trek Online player is that the Tholian ships when in combat open spacial rifts in order to damage the player's ship. These rifts now occasionally can spawn terran ships from the mirror universe. Given the lore presented within the shows and in STO, I'm wondering if there is something about the Tholians themselves that links the Prime and Mirror universes together.
Tholians may come from a B class star, but the science here is precise and correct, nicely done! The theory they were designed doesn't float my boat but a theory of their origin being from another world originally seems more likely. In STNG Both Worlds, we contacted Tholians but imagine! Just imagine what could happen with Tholian Borg - maybe the source of an Interplexing Beacon? Hm.
BTW the origin of the tholians has many stories first to come out is the starfleet battles where the tholians were masters of their own galaxy until an uprising by a race they inslaved almost killing off their race
I think its interesting that they've probably been mentioned as much, if not more than they have actually appeared with two major examples i can think of is in the changeling attack on the federation conference with the romulans which was said to have a Tholian observer and there is apparent a Tholian ambassador on DS9 as when Jake has himself and Nog put in a cell together to get them to talk, Odo arrests Nog under suspicion of stealing from the Tholian ambassador
You mention they thrive in temperatures above 480 Kelvin. That's roughly 210 Celsius or 400 Fahrenheit. 380k is 107c 225f. For anyone else out there not used to Kelvin scale.
Another great video thanks... Still working my way thru them all and can't see anything about the Breen? Also would you consider covering any of the various spacial anomalies that appear (not sure if anyone but me is interested in that)
I definitely have ideas for more videos that delve into spatial things like higher dimensions, subspace, astrophysics, etc. As for the Breen, I plan to cover them quite soon. You'll see them ;)
In my opinion, the Tholian's method of time travel is transmissions through interphase. Tears in space through to interphase connect Tholians from any time to any other time or alternate timestream. I have a more expansive time travel hypothesis, but I won't explain here
Don't forget about the Excalbians, who were molten rock creatures who were curious about the concept of good and evil.. They obviously had some sort of technology as well. Not to mention the Horta species. I remember in one of the TOS series novels, where they had one of the Horta as a CREW MEMBER!!! Now THAT was weirdly absurd, to me. Unless, of course, you plan to cover these
i think you leaped over somethng there "methan serves as a greenhouse gas and therefore might be a respiratory gas in hotter temps" why? in what way? its dependent on what the biology is.. what exchange is going on?
I also enjoyed the origins given in the Star Fleet Battles tabletop game. It's not canon but unique. In the game, Tholians were from another galaxy and had created a brutal empire spanning most or all of it. However, after thousands of years of control, their empire fell apart during a rebellion. The rebels tried to annihilate their Tholian masters so the Tholians fled to other galaxies in enormous generation ships. One of those ships reached the Milky Way galaxy and the Tholians created a small but powerful isolationist empire. While technologically more advanced than the other Star Trek nations, they did not have the resources, manufacturing capacity, or large population to build a war machine to try and conquer their neighbors. In the game map, the Tholians occupy a small area of space in between Klingon and Romulan empires at the galaxy's edge. The game map has the Federation in the center with Klingons to the west and Romulans to the east of Federation borders. There is also a separate campaign released for Star Fleet Battles where the aliens that overthrew the Tholians arrive in the galaxy in their own generation ship. A insert race similar to bees called the Seltorians. It is heavily implied that they are just as brutal as the Tholians were. The Seltorians had weapons specifically designed to neutralize Tholian webs. In the campaign, the Klingon Empire gives the Seltorians some systems that border the Tholian Assembly so they can launch their extermination campaign. However, the Seltorians prove more trouble than they are worth and eventually get wiped out.
This is the kind of alien I like to see on sci fi shows. The whole humanoid thing is so unrealistic. Especially when the only thing that makes them different are their eyebrows and ears.
I personally think the Enterprise depiction of their full body is fine actually, but I ALSO think that The Original Series depiction is MUCH more frightening to look at lol
That actually makes some sense, though. Crablike body shapes have evolved separately multiple times on Earth, so it checks out as a body type we might expect to show up elsewhere.
I think it’s an interesting little detail in the episode where Archer and Co. Meet them; the Tholians don’t use excessive force to retrieve the time ship. They, temporarily disable the Enterprise, use necessary force to retrieve the time ship and then leave with no further conflict. They could have easily destroyed the enterprise after taking the time ship or caused serious damage to prevent enterprise from escaping but they didn’t.
I wonder if the Tholians could be responsible for mining and processing certain warp field crystal lattices? Maybe they trade in Verterium cortenide perhaps?
Nice. Quite enjoyable. Like the Gorn, the Thailand certainly should be featured more often. I have often played a Tholian ship in the old game STAR FLEET BATTLES. In SFBs description of the Tholians, they are refugees from a conquered empire and brought their home world with them using their web technology. The Klingons often clash with them in the game. Anyway, good video.👍
@@matttrafton2725 Good joke for a mistake comeback Matt,Ya make it seem like you were just setting us up for a laugh!If you were on my Starship you would be Communications officer !!
Great video about the Tholians, it is always interesting to flesh out the various species that we are briefly given a glimpse of in TOS. In regards to the political stellar map, I prefer to make reference to the map given by the 1975 Star Fleet Technical Manual and integrate it with the stellar map that FASA Star Trek RPG made. Federation exploration territory would be a circle, with the Klingon Empire to its "west", the Romulan Empire "southeast" of the Federation with Orion space in between, almost due "east" would be Gorn Territory, and further "north" from them would be the Tholian Assembly. I've made my own historical maps based off the timeline given in the RPG game.
Tholian ship comes across a borg Cube. "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Your biological... What? ... What do you mean they thrive in temperature as high as 480° Kelvin? Oh dammit! Will make it quick and get that ship of Pakleds instead. 😆 🤣 😂
Rare Gem's.. hidden in space. But there Mind's are soooo different.... No Temporal cold war participants...just a odd strange anolomy in the universe perhaps???? Your thoughts
I want to see the Tholians appear in the show series of (STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS) & in the show series of (STAR TREK: DISCOVERY). But in the show series of (STAR TREK: DISCOVERY) I suggest add a twist, and that is over the centuries a second form of their species had developed in 20% of them, and to add I imagine that their life span lasts longer than the others. In addition I imagine that the (Tholians) who have developed a second body form, they were forced to leave their home to live somewhere else, and it’s do the fact they were not treated well by the other Tholians. Plus to add I imagine this separate faction of (Tholians) are capable of trying to understand carbon based life-forms, and they themselves hope to discover some they can develop a genuine friendship with.
I really love how we can play with science and fiction, just exploring life's possibilities in this universe. Long life to star trek and longer life and prosper to all trekies!!!
🎶Have you seen...my crystal spider?🎶 😉 Diane Duane introduces a species called the Hamalki in "The Wounded Sky", one of my favourite Trek novels. They too are like crystal spiders, but carbon-based (I believe), and peaceful scientists for the most part. They can also clone themselves and pass on all their knowledge and memories to the clone.
I've only ever watched TNG (many times over) so I never even knew about these guys. It's always bugged me how so many of the "aliens" in Star Trek are just humans with wigs and makeup. These Tholian guys though, THIS is the kind of thing that comes to mind when I think "aliens"
So the Tholians extrude a silk like substance.?..That is highly prized by other races, Is it a Armor type material or energy producing or just decorative !
You might want to use 'spell check' the next time so that you don't misspell words like "Estimate", (your spelling was "Estiamte"). Yes, I know that I'm being nitpicky, but if you're going to put in the time & effort to make videos about a fictional species, then I would assume that you'd want it to look as non-fictional & professional as possible.
Going with as-of-yet non-main-canon information, STO mentions that Tholians don't distinguish between factions of the same species that exist in other universes, probably because of how The Lattice works. So basically, because a tholian that's currently in the Mirror Universe can share impressions with tholians living elsewhere, they essentially blame all humans for the stuff the Terrans get up to. Edit: Also we still don't know exactly why they did it, but later missions in STO hints that the Tholians didn't mess with the Na'kul's star because they were a faction in the temporal cold war so much as they did it because they are antagonistic towards ALL cultures that use time travel technology in any way. They later try to patch a hole in the fabric of the universe itself that had formed close to that same star, again being perfectly fine with making it go supernova as unintended but unimportant collateral damage from their tractor web.
Is there any race in Star Trek that wasn't engineered by a "mysterious" older race? This seems to be a common meme whenever they need an excuse for some evolutionary error, such as having a race living on a planet orbiting a blue giant star. Or humanoids scattered all around the galaxy. Gets a be predictable.
Yeah, it would be wildly inaccurate realistically. The Xenomorphs in the Aliens movie franchise would actually be far more accurate. They wouldn't rely on water but more like methane or something acidic. They also couldn't be in an oxygen rich environment because it would cause their silicon to form lattices which would stop it from removing waste material from its body.
I wonder would they need dilithium to power their warp cores? These guys could have ruled the galaxy in discovery if that show didn't need beings that can show emotion ie. Crying every 5mins.
- Trying to incorporate real science with fantasy is a slippery slope into Psychosis.. - However, engaging in such speculation may prepare us for when we really do encounter our first ETs. - But I suspect that the fantasy Tholians will be quite tame to the shock of seeing the real thing.
Star Trek T.O.S was much more imaginative than T.N.G in terms of having proper mysterious aliens like the Tholians or the Gorn rather than actors with a bit of make up.
If you enjoyed this video, check out a couple other videos I have on nonhumanoid species from other sci-fi franchises:
Metroids ua-cam.com/video/KCF44IkUBYU/v-deo.html
Heptapods (Arrival) ua-cam.com/video/aDsrYPhlO30/v-deo.html
Thanks Tyler,I been waiting for this one and ya didn't disappoint! Sure was hoping to see the "Inspector Tyler"again and I look forward to his return soon !!
Do you think they cud be cousins to the Horta or Christine entity ?
@@BluesFishRico That's an excellent theory ! They certainly seem to have quality's of both.Also like them they may just be misunderstood and could become valuable allies someday.I must admit though the STNG episode when the Mother of one of the children eaten by the Crystal Entity kills it and then gets the doo doo from the ENTERPRISE crew who were trying to communicate with it seemed silly to me.I mean this massive "Snowflake"creature had wiped out countless humanoids and all life on many planets without hesitation without the slightest hesitation or care they may be sentient,intelligent life becouse to IT,all organic matter was food.By all indications it was of low,animal like intelligence and could never be reasoned with or trusted to continue roaming the Galaxy.Now that you mentioned it,I wonder if the THOLIANS knew of this creature in their space?Is it possible it was a "Superweapon"somehow grown or constructed by them to attack Federation Planets?The truth is out there !
@@jymfysher7704 guess. We cud also not blame the shark for being a shark….Klingons Spec 8472 . The Gorn All had interspecies communication problems..on TNG. They had a good episode Darmak that showed the price & challenge of this.
@@BluesFishRico Yep,you got that right.Here on Earth man must eliminate lifeforms that threaten our safety and existance.Thats not to mean ya go and wipe out all the sharks or any species,but we must keep their numbers down or else nobody can go for a swim if some predatory fish is going to likely be waiting to eat us,or a better example would be insects which will eat our crops and kill us if we ever give up our fight against them.(The #1killer of humans is actually a mosquito becouse of Malaria!)
This was grand. Your puns were rock-solid; got them all, crystal clear.
HAH!
Your very transparent
@@simonwillis1529 You're.
Woo-hoo🇺🇸
Now i'm cought between a rock a hard a stone and i feel it's getting hot in here but your analysis was as cold as the blood of an Andorian and sharp as a Stalagmite.
Seem like with the radically different living habitats needed, yo would think the Tholians would get along with lots of other races. Negotiating to use the planets the humanoids avoid like the plague, the fit them very well, and letting humanoids use the more M class planets they don't care about. Seems like it would be a good relationship on both sides.
And Tholian silk is a prized commodity among the other powers. They could negotiate uninhabitable planets in exchange for small tithes of silk.
I love the thought of Tholians perceiving time differently than humanoids. An individual Tholian could have the memories of its progenitors going back centuries - if they do have a benefactor in the Temporal Cold War, it might just be their future selves!
Alternatively, they could be similar to their Star Trek Online versions, which are a wildcard in the temporal cold war due to having a fanatical hatred of all things time travel.
From the video I understood they live shorter than humans perceiving time normally for then, but faster like ants or dogs. Maybe their day cycle is shorter
@@foxxojones4757 You could rope that in with their perception of time.
There abhorrent hatred could be due to the fact its disrupting their perception of things. And or why they are so xenophobic, as no other species sees the universe as they do.
I love stuff like this.
apparently they have been going around sealing up and apprehending incidents related to time travel
they really dont like it when races use time travel and apparently they show up to give said races a beating and fix up whatever damage to reality has been done to reality
however the way they go about it was rather invasive as they almost destroyed a sun doing so
One thing that science fiction tends to get wrong about silicon-based life, theoretically, it need not even be crystalline. Very hot most likely but need not be any more crystalline than we carbon-based life forms need to be diamond-based. Silicon-based materials, like silicone in this video, are not all related to silicon-based crystals like glass and quartz.
So Xenomorphs could symbiosis with carbon based life?
Ok Spock 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The Horta say you're right
I wish that Star Trek would use the Tholan more in the background. Ship comes to some planets and they see a tholan leaving but never really know what they doing or why.
That's actually how the Vorlons in Babylon 5 were depicted, at least initially.
They got a silk trade to run...
It might be a challenge to not inadvertently imply to viewers that they were going to be important later on in the show, and especially if the crew were far away from their space, it might be hard to justify why they're there.
The Tholian Assembly is shall we say "curious?" as to how you acquired this data.... ;)
So it's not desinformation? The implausible Star (and the lack of pictures) would make sense, if it was just a red hering 🤔
This was very fascinating. Great video! I liked it a lot. I had no idea that the Tholians or the Breen for that matter would have bigger territory than the Romulans or the Cardassians. The Tholians and the Breen are so mysterious, so enigmatic, and so isolated, they seem like minor powers.
IF the Tholians are involved with time-travel, then it might make sense that they are responsible - at least, in part - for their own creation/liberation. I came to this conclusion because in your video, it seems that the Tholians are more interested in preserving the 'status quo' of the time-stream, rather than siding with any one power, and thats indicative of a species who wants to preserve the _current iteration_ of the time-stream at all costs... perhaps a species that has already tampered with it long ago to their own benefit. Anyone making their own changes could thus jeopardize Tholian existence (because a 'manufactured' version of events is likely less stable than the naturally occurring one). Just a theory, mind you.
I always thought they were originally extra dimensional somehow.
i believe that the Tholian are Connected to their Mirror counterpart they see what the other sees and has shared knowledge this gives them and edge and lead them into fucking with the future people in the Temporal Cold war and the Mirror Verse .
if a recall the USS Defiant TOS received a distress call from the Tholians but in reality it was the Mirror Tholians luring them to get the teach into the past.
what if both tholians planed it.
@@CommanderM117 Thats actually pretty cool, and by extension, its really a multiverse (ST:TnG _Parallels_ ), so what if the Tholians are linked to ALL their counterparts, much as Doctor Strange did that thing where he peered into millions of alternate timelines? That would mean the Tholians would be aware of nearly ALL possibilities, and could steer their own timeline to their best advantage. I would imagine they would be unbeatable chess players.
@@marktaylor6553 True and to avoid people figuring it out they play the Part of being xenophobic in order to avoid long term contact with other races and their big secret getting out as well as in turn protecting them from fighting unless necessary.
they needed the USS Defiant because the Terrans at the time where being more aggressive on the Mirror side so they sent that ship over to get a jump start to defend them selves.
@@bobross4886 If you read the commentary below about the Tholians being connected to other versions of themselves, then it could be possible that the Tholians (in ALL quantum universes) are the _same_ Tholians, and so your theory works, because they are indeed extra-dimensional in nature, and 'extensions' of themselves are projected into various quantum realities.
You missed the Corals that also make use of Silicates. I have some in my legs, where the Fibula and Tibia of each leg suffered a burn that destroyed the bones.
The Silicates used in Corals are Calcium Silicate, which can be “cooked” at very high temperatures to convert it to Calcium Carbonate, which is what out bones are made out of.
The Coral splint is machined into the shape of the bone it is to replace, and it is then grafted into the bone with a bio-degradable epoxy resin. The coral-calcium-carbonate “bone” really just forms a scaffolding that our bones will grow into/over. This process even allows the marrow to re-grow into the section of bone replaced.
It is ironic that this process produces stronger bone than the original (although not surprising, now that I have studied enough Biology, where I have learned that Evolution doesn’t “optimize,” and thus pretty-much every part of our bodies can be EASILY improved upon, even if we cannot yet implement those improvements).
Theoretically it should be possible to replace 100% of our Skeletons with bone made in this fashion, producing a skeleton that is not just stronger, but augmented to allow greater ranges-of-motion, and muscle-attachment points either further or closer to the joints (depending upon requirements) to produce up to a 2.5× amplification of Strength without any modification of the Muscles themselves. Obviously Medical Ethics would prevent Elective Applications (people doing this by demanding a surgeon replace bones without a medical necessity) of the technologies.
But that is only a matter of time before the augmentations produced by such procedures are safe enough, and pronounced enough in the degree of augmentation that doctors will perform them on those willing to pay, or governments using such methods on soldiers to produce better “Weaponize Humans.”
The Para-Olympian Aimee Mullins has said that the Prosthetic Legs she uses in competitions can beat any human with natural legs, and that even those are not yet at the limits of the technology. Such legs could be created right now that allow a human to run at speeds over 100kph, and possibly higher, but they are not due to the rules of the Para-Olympics, and the ethics of creating such prostheses, given that the human choosing to use them would likely not be able to survive a fall if running at those speeds.
BUT… Bit of a Tangent… corals… Silicates…
Great Job!!! I've been a Star Trek fan for 55 years now (I'm 59 years old, as you know the 1st Trek episode premiered on Sept 8, 1966, which was the day before my 4th birthday) In ALL these years I've been a fan, and though I knew some of what you said, I NEVER KNEW THIS MUCH about the Tholians!!! Keep up the good work!!! George B. from the Boston area!!!
George G Balzano...I was 11 years old when Star Trek came on TV in 1966. I was in front of the TV. I've been a Trekkie ever since. I'll be 66 in November, and I still watch Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock. Then there's Voyager, Deep Space Nine, The Next Generation, Enterprise, all of Star Trek.
I wish there would be a new Star Trek series that takes place between TOS and TNG. Besides the Klingons and Romulans, also
feature the Tholians and THE GORN!! Thank you for your amazing content!!
First episode viewer, here, too. I was 8 and watched with my 15 year old brother who good naturedly fielded my many questions. Those were exciting times! Every boy at school had a model of the LEM in his room. I seen to recall seeing ads for the model kits for 10 cents in the back of a comic book. After the excitement of the Apollo program I was super disappointed that the best we could do was a flying bus. Why weren't we going to Mars? Now, I think sending robots out there is our best bet, after all.
We need more Tholians and other obscure alien species in these new Star Trek shows.
Or somewhere
They need to keep them mysterious though
Glad you covered the Tholians; they've been woefully under-used in the Trek universe(s). I believe i have heard that some of our own insects have silicon in their biology, although it's a vague item in my memory. As for Tholia orbiting a blue-giant, well, evolution could be much faster on such worlds as I think you noted. Or they could have been engineered there alternatively. As for the Temporal Cold War, I'm unsure of this has been mentioned somewhere (it probably has), but the idea of changing history to this race, or that's advantage has been used in literary science fiction for a long time (pun intended). The best example is maybe Fritz Leiber, Jr.'s "Change War" sequence. These include THE BIG TIME (1958), and THE MIND SPIDERS AND OTHER STORIES (1961). Isaac Asimov's THE END OF ETERNITY from 1955 features "Time Police" from the future, humans, although I can't recall at this point of aliens were involved here as well. In any case, the similarities most closely resemble Leiber's sequence. Just some interesting trivia I thought I would point out w/o accusing anyone of borrowing ideas, mind you.
No. They are overused. When they were inscrutable and mysterious they were far more intriguing.
Since we're carbon based but still mostly water, I guess they could just call us wet bags of coal in return to "living rocks" comments. lol
'Ugly bags of mostly water' is one of my all-time favourite quotes 😀
@@lifeinthevoid1595 I remember that episode.
Did you like that episode?
@@lifeinthevoid1595 I always like it when they try to create something other than the humans with bumpy noses and monculture exactly the same as some narrow aspect of our history. ;)
Saying that complex life based upon silicon would be akin to crystals because we all know silicon as glass is like them imagining us the same way because they have diamonds and imagine our carbon-based life as only possible on demon-class planets because of how much energy is needed in such diamond-based life.
Silicon-based life would be far more fluid and because of their nature far more amicable to all carbon-based life because of the underdog issue.
The Vanguard series books were some of my favorites. Really good video, very thorough.
I hoped we get something like this on screen, but they went a different route with Discovery.
The Vanguard story's are awesome. The mix between civil and star fleet for example, actions on the station and in space, the Shedai mystery. Just great.
@@maximimaxima3327 The Shedai bit was woven so well into many mysteries. It was awesome. If only they would do something animated in the style of the DC animated movies. Not expensive and I know it would sell well. I feel Lower Decks and Prodigy has better writers than their live action.
This was the one to compare to other videos about Tholians.
Great work. I wish I had more trekkie friends to share your channel with
Nice, highly detailed video. The Tholians were one of my favorite alien antagonist races from the original series. I didn't watch enough of the other series to know they ever made a comeback.
I've gotten weary of the the movies that seem to use just Romulans and Klingons as the villains. How about a Tholian with a chip on his shoulder next time. I would also like to see more of the Melkotians who seemed interested in joining the Federation in the original series episode they were in.
The big difficulty in imagining silicon-based life is at most planetary temperatures, carbon dioxide is a gas, while silicon dioxide is... sand.
I hate sand, it's rough and...oh wait, wrong universe.
I’d love to see the tholians in discovery or strange new worlds
I really enjoy the episodes where the Tholians appear. They're super mysterious and imposing, and thank you again for pulling in the cool real world science!! This was an excellent video!
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you guys. ✝️ :)
I choose to believe that the Tholians signed the non aggression pact with the Dominion less out of fear and more out of a desire to just be left alone.
plus they can sit back and get the pop corn out seeing the war play out.
if they did get attacked they could simply hide in the Mirror verse with their other half and repopulated after.
That sounds reasonable. They could hand the Gemhadar their ass
Something I've just noticed as an avid Star Trek Online player is that the Tholian ships when in combat open spacial rifts in order to damage the player's ship. These rifts now occasionally can spawn terran ships from the mirror universe. Given the lore presented within the shows and in STO, I'm wondering if there is something about the Tholians themselves that links the Prime and Mirror universes together.
Oh wow… cool to know!
Love the tholiens best aliens in trek in my opinion
Well spoken, well done and informative to any lover of the star trek genre. Good Luck with future castings.
Tholians may come from a B class star, but the science here is precise and correct, nicely done! The theory they were designed doesn't float my boat but a theory of their origin being from another world originally seems more likely. In STNG Both Worlds, we contacted Tholians but imagine! Just imagine what could happen with Tholian Borg - maybe the source of an Interplexing Beacon? Hm.
Interesting. Maybe the various versions of the Tholians are to be explained thusly
Kar-da-shev. Kar-duh-shev. Not Kar-DAshev. That would be weird.
Would Borg Tholians would crash each other ????.....
BTW the origin of the tholians has many stories first to come out is the starfleet battles where the tholians were masters of their own galaxy until an uprising by a race they inslaved almost killing off their race
Tholians' silk must be by-product of something important and Tholians just dispose of it like trash or urine.
great stuff, love your videos, please keep up the extraordinary work!
Thank you Marcus!
love the tholians! i was thrilled when they appeared on Enterprise! thanks for the video!
I think its interesting that they've probably been mentioned as much, if not more than they have actually appeared with two major examples i can think of is in the changeling attack on the federation conference with the romulans which was said to have a Tholian observer and there is apparent a Tholian ambassador on DS9 as when Jake has himself and Nog put in a cell together to get them to talk, Odo arrests Nog under suspicion of stealing from the Tholian ambassador
I wish they got the same attention like species 8472, they were cool!
If Tholians were so in charge of Time travel, then why are they not in control of the Galaxy like forever?
You mention they thrive in temperatures above 480 Kelvin. That's roughly 210 Celsius or 400 Fahrenheit. 380k is 107c 225f. For anyone else out there not used to Kelvin scale.
Do you think Discovery could make it passed a Tholian web.
Tholian silk is the species' saving grace. If it wasn't for their highest quality silk, I'd have no use for those ugly bugs .
Another great video thanks... Still working my way thru them all and can't see anything about the Breen?
Also would you consider covering any of the various spacial anomalies that appear (not sure if anyone but me is interested in that)
I definitely have ideas for more videos that delve into spatial things like higher dimensions, subspace, astrophysics, etc. As for the Breen, I plan to cover them quite soon. You'll see them ;)
I wonder if Tholian Silk is Silicon based to?
Fiberglass??
In my opinion, the Tholian's method of time travel is transmissions through interphase. Tears in space through to interphase connect Tholians from any time to any other time or alternate timestream. I have a more expansive time travel hypothesis, but I won't explain here
"a rare gem" I'm sorry but that pun made me die inside xDDD
Don't forget about the Excalbians, who were molten rock creatures who were curious about the concept of good and evil.. They obviously had some sort of technology as well. Not to mention the Horta species. I remember in one of the TOS series novels, where they had one of the Horta as a CREW MEMBER!!! Now THAT was weirdly absurd, to me.
Unless, of course, you plan to cover these
Seems like lots of people want me to cover both of those species! I likely will at some point
One of the things I like about science fiction is creating non- humanoid aliens.
i think you leaped over somethng there "methan serves as a greenhouse gas and therefore might be a respiratory gas in hotter temps" why? in what way? its dependent on what the biology is.. what exchange is going on?
Tholians look like they belong in the Metroid universe
Hahaha, I could certainly see that!
I also enjoyed the origins given in the Star Fleet Battles tabletop game. It's not canon but unique. In the game, Tholians were from another galaxy and had created a brutal empire spanning most or all of it. However, after thousands of years of control, their empire fell apart during a rebellion. The rebels tried to annihilate their Tholian masters so the Tholians fled to other galaxies in enormous generation ships. One of those ships reached the Milky Way galaxy and the Tholians created a small but powerful isolationist empire. While technologically more advanced than the other Star Trek nations, they did not have the resources, manufacturing capacity, or large population to build a war machine to try and conquer their neighbors. In the game map, the Tholians occupy a small area of space in between Klingon and Romulan empires at the galaxy's edge. The game map has the Federation in the center with Klingons to the west and Romulans to the east of Federation borders.
There is also a separate campaign released for Star Fleet Battles where the aliens that overthrew the Tholians arrive in the galaxy in their own generation ship. A insert race similar to bees called the Seltorians. It is heavily implied that they are just as brutal as the Tholians were. The Seltorians had weapons specifically designed to neutralize Tholian webs. In the campaign, the Klingon Empire gives the Seltorians some systems that border the Tholian Assembly so they can launch their extermination campaign. However, the Seltorians prove more trouble than they are worth and eventually get wiped out.
The Tholians are one of my favorite species from Star Trek.
This is the kind of alien I like to see on sci fi shows. The whole humanoid thing is so unrealistic. Especially when the only thing that makes them different are their eyebrows and ears.
Good video! You might want to recheck your "spellcheck" though. At 4:02 you spell out the word estimates as "estiamtes".
Haha, indeed I did
The Tholians also play a big part of the comic book series "Year Five"
What? Killing without consent? How dare they?
That's not how that sentence is supposed to be interpreted, lol
Strange they didn't get involved in the Diminion war
🖖🏻💚
Thanks great subject
The only race the borg won’t touch
Maybe tholians evolved into SHadows :)
There is a certain resemblance, isn't there? Surprised no one else here seems to have gotten your reference.
There is no reason for aliens to be Humanoid but, there is also no reason for them to be non-Humanoid.
Dude your awesome at this. Right now your my favorite Star trek analysis channel. Keep em commin! : )
Fascinating
I was very disappointed in the Enterprise depiction of a Tholian. Looked like a crab.
I personally think the Enterprise depiction of their full body is fine actually, but I ALSO think that The Original Series depiction is MUCH more frightening to look at lol
That actually makes some sense, though. Crablike body shapes have evolved separately multiple times on Earth, so it checks out as a body type we might expect to show up elsewhere.
I think it’s an interesting little detail in the episode where Archer and Co. Meet them; the Tholians don’t use excessive force to retrieve the time ship.
They, temporarily disable the Enterprise, use necessary force to retrieve the time ship and then leave with no further conflict.
They could have easily destroyed the enterprise after taking the time ship or caused serious damage to prevent enterprise from escaping but they didn’t.
I wonder if the Tholians could be responsible for mining and processing certain warp field crystal lattices? Maybe they trade in Verterium cortenide perhaps?
The thorians were only dangerous if your ship was broke down. In Enterprise's mirror episode they captured one and tortured it and its body imploded.
"Silicon-based lifeforms..."
*Carl Sagan has entered the chat.*
Surf Wisely.
This channel is a rare gem, pun intended.
Thank you so much!
Nice. Quite enjoyable. Like the Gorn, the Thailand certainly should be featured more often. I have often played a Tholian ship in the old game STAR FLEET BATTLES. In SFBs description of the Tholians, they are refugees from a conquered empire and brought their home world with them using their web technology. The Klingons often clash with them in the game. Anyway, good video.👍
Thailand! LOL! Might want to CHECK that auto-correct thingy!
@@DMSProduktions Tholians fled Thailand. They were there on holiday for the girly boys for a long time. They experience time differently. And, sex.
@@matttrafton2725 Ahh the old Patpong ka tois! Nice!
@@matttrafton2725 Good joke for a mistake comeback Matt,Ya make it seem like you were just setting us up for a laugh!If you were on my Starship you would be Communications officer !!
I let an industry secret slip. The Tholians are actually Thai fighters.
Great video about the Tholians, it is always interesting to flesh out the various species that we are briefly given a glimpse of in TOS. In regards to the political stellar map, I prefer to make reference to the map given by the 1975 Star Fleet Technical Manual and integrate it with the stellar map that FASA Star Trek RPG made. Federation exploration territory would be a circle, with the Klingon Empire to its "west", the Romulan Empire "southeast" of the Federation with Orion space in between, almost due "east" would be Gorn Territory, and further "north" from them would be the Tholian Assembly. I've made my own historical maps based off the timeline given in the RPG game.
I wish we could explore the connection between the Tholians and the Gorns.
Tholian ship comes across a borg Cube.
"We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Your biological... What? ... What do you mean they thrive in temperature as high as 480° Kelvin? Oh dammit! Will make it quick and get that ship of Pakleds instead. 😆 🤣 😂
Rare Gem's.. hidden in space. But there Mind's are soooo different.... No Temporal cold war participants...just a odd strange anolomy in the universe perhaps???? Your thoughts
Dude, excellent content! I learnt a lot and I consider myself a ST expert. Keep it going bud!
I want to see the Tholians appear in the show series of (STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS) & in the show series of (STAR TREK: DISCOVERY).
But in the show series of (STAR TREK: DISCOVERY) I suggest add a twist, and that is over the centuries a second form of their species had developed in 20% of them, and to add I imagine that their life span lasts longer than the others.
In addition I imagine that the (Tholians) who have developed a second body form, they were forced to leave their home to live somewhere else, and it’s do the fact they were not treated well by the other Tholians.
Plus to add I imagine this separate faction of (Tholians) are capable of trying to understand carbon based life-forms, and they themselves hope to discover some they can develop a genuine friendship with.
Everything we know about the Tholians = TO BE AVOIDED!
I really love how we can play with science and fiction, just exploring life's possibilities in this universe. Long life to star trek and longer life and prosper to all trekies!!!
10:45 If Tholians breed by cloning, and have all the memories of the patent(s), why would they need to be trained from birth???
🎶Have you seen...my crystal spider?🎶 😉
Diane Duane introduces a species called the Hamalki in "The Wounded Sky", one of my favourite Trek novels. They too are like crystal spiders, but carbon-based (I believe), and peaceful scientists for the most part. They can also clone themselves and pass on all their knowledge and memories to the clone.
Yay Tholians! Tholians ROCK!!!
I've only ever watched TNG (many times over) so I never even knew about these guys. It's always bugged me how so many of the "aliens" in Star Trek are just humans with wigs and makeup. These Tholian guys though, THIS is the kind of thing that comes to mind when I think "aliens"
Temporal cold War? It it based on THE TIME WARS series, by Simon Hawke. He also wrote a star trek novel, The Patrian Transgression, I believe.
So the Tholians extrude a silk like substance.?..That is highly prized by other races, Is it a Armor type material or energy producing or just decorative !
You might want to use 'spell check' the next time so that you don't misspell words like "Estimate", (your spelling was "Estiamte"). Yes, I know that I'm being nitpicky, but if you're going to put in the time & effort to make videos about a fictional species, then I would assume that you'd want it to look as non-fictional & professional as possible.
Have you already covered the Meltrons? If so why did they not indignantly destroy any number of crude war like species. Fun stuff! Thanks.
Going with as-of-yet non-main-canon information, STO mentions that Tholians don't distinguish between factions of the same species that exist in other universes, probably because of how The Lattice works.
So basically, because a tholian that's currently in the Mirror Universe can share impressions with tholians living elsewhere, they essentially blame all humans for the stuff the Terrans get up to.
Edit: Also we still don't know exactly why they did it, but later missions in STO hints that the Tholians didn't mess with the Na'kul's star because they were a faction in the temporal cold war so much as they did it because they are antagonistic towards ALL cultures that use time travel technology in any way.
They later try to patch a hole in the fabric of the universe itself that had formed close to that same star, again being perfectly fine with making it go supernova as unintended but unimportant collateral damage from their tractor web.
Whoa. Great job
Reminds me of Maximilian from Black hole a little. The 1979 movie.
Thanks for talking about the Tholians! They are super interesting and mysterious!
You should do an episode on the other silicone based species... The Horta.
@8:58 "BIG IF TRUE" We are talking about fiction.
Is it safe to assume the Tholians of the prime and mirror universes are in contact with each other?
Is there any race in Star Trek that wasn't engineered by a "mysterious" older race? This seems to be a common meme whenever they need an excuse for some evolutionary error, such as having a race living on a planet orbiting a blue giant star. Or humanoids scattered all around the galaxy. Gets a be predictable.
Your channel is one of the greatest gems I have ever come across on UA-cam
Thank you!
Yeah, it would be wildly inaccurate realistically. The Xenomorphs in the Aliens movie franchise would actually be far more accurate. They wouldn't rely on water but more like methane or something acidic. They also couldn't be in an oxygen rich environment because it would cause their silicon to form lattices which would stop it from removing waste material from its body.
Im really impressed by your knowledge of Star Trek. Your videos are very interesting.
I wonder would they need dilithium to power their warp cores? These guys could have ruled the galaxy in discovery if that show didn't need beings that can show emotion ie. Crying every 5mins.
I’m not sure why you mention planets hotter than Venus as homeworlds for Tholians as 480K is only 207C … less than half the temp of Venus.
- Trying to incorporate real science with fantasy is a slippery slope into Psychosis..
- However, engaging in such speculation may prepare us for when we really do encounter our first ETs.
- But I suspect that the fantasy Tholians will be quite tame to the shock of seeing the real thing.
Tholians are best when seldom seen. They keep giving us too much information about them.
Star Trek T.O.S was much more imaginative than T.N.G in terms of having proper mysterious aliens like the Tholians or the Gorn rather than actors with a bit of make up.