Why the Prophets May Be Future Bajorans
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- #startrek #ds9 #prophet
The Bajorans are one of the most thoroughly fleshed out aliens in Star Trek. Heavily featured in Deep Space Nine, the Bajorans worship a race of noncorporeal beings called "The Prophets." A controversial theory says the Prophets evolved from far-future Bajorans...could this theory have merit?
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @orangeriver
This video was sponsored by Treksphere: www.treksphere.com
Check out my video about noncorporeals: • These Star Trek Aliens...
Written, filmed, & edited by OrangeRiver
Assistant script editor: Subraxas
- Music in this video -
Holfix: / holfix
Sam Kužel: / samkuzel
- Support -
Patreon: / orangeriver
Official website: www.orangeriverproductions.com
Merch store: orange-river-productions.creat...
- Social media -
Facebook: / orangerivernw
Twitter: / orangerivernw
Instagram: / orangerivernw
Discord: / discord
And don't forget to subscribe!
- CHAPTERS -
00:00 Intro
01:18 Bajoran Biology
02:28 Homeworld and Evolution
07:17 Early Recorded History
10:04 The Prophets
12:29 One and the Same?
17:17 Outro - Фільми й анімація
So, what do you think? Are the Bajorans the ancestors of the Prophets? And what else would you like me to explore when it comes to alien biology, sci-fi tech, etc.?
Alien Biology question: Is Q a warlock? - The TV show "Bewitched" had characters who possessed the exact same powers as Q. Though they referred to themselves as witches and warlocks, they could manipulate time, space, and matter in many of the same ways as Q, and with a similar style as well. The main character, Samantha, tried to live as a human to please her mortal husband, but her relatives were not so tolerant. Her mother, Endora, could be malevolent, and her uncle Arthur loved to play practical jokes - just like Q! Could they be the same species?
@@ElmerCat Your lesson of logic will fall upon mostly deaf ears
@@ElmerCat always thought Q was a higher dimensional being ... love videos about shapes in higher dimensions and how say 4th dimension shapes would appear when interacting with our three dimensions, and how we would appear when interacting with flatlanders with apparently ability to appear anywhere at will and push stuff around and that seems very Q like
Think you're on to something 🤔
and Hirogen please? Also have you thought of doing commissioned videos? Steve Shives runs a thing where you can pay a set amount for a video on a topic you nominate
The bajorans might be the second evolution of their species, the prophets having ascended like the humans and ancients in Stargate. Just a thought. Great video by the way!
I have long thought this exact thing; the Prophets are grandfather paradoxing themselves, to ensure they come into being. There are references that suggest Bajorans aren't even native to Bajor but arrived there from somewhere else. It all seems to point to this being the truth: Bajorans will evolve into the non-corporeal, trans-temporal Prophets some millions or billions of years into their own future. Reminds me a bit of "Ancients" from Stargate.
It's not a paradox
Prophets: You read Shakespeare, we read the base code of the Universe. We are not the same.
I had heard of the Prophets as future Bajorans, but it never occurred to me that their "history" with Bajor may have started with Sisko.
so linear....
@@subraxas It is
The ‘…..ghosts….ooooh’ made me guffaw.
Another great video my dude! I had not considered that particular origin for the Prophets, and I do like how it nicely addresses the fact that the Prophets always talk about being, "Of Bajor". Keep doin' whatchu' doin man, I really enjoy your videos!!
Thanks Clint!
@@OrangeRiver ua-cam.com/video/Tb-QmD3_Cxs/v-deo.html
At 6:17 - After watching DS9 countless times, it's creepy watch TNG -"The Chase" and not think of the Humanoid Progenitor as the Female Shapeshifter.
So I am not the only one creeped out by this!
they were played by the same actress
@@acarrillo8277 thought you were just being funny and then checked and wow so that's a reason it's so creepy
@@acarrillo8277 Yes, but Salome Jens is no Jeffrey Combs. That, plus the makeup is so similar, without the storyline they could easily be mistaken for the same character.
@@lifeinthevoid1595 Salome Jens portrayed the Human Progenitor in this one episode of TNG which aired in April of 1993. A year later, she was cast to play the Female Shapeshifter, appearing in 15 episodes of DS9, beginning with "The Search" in September of 1994.
The decision to cast her in DS9 was undoubtedly made after TPTB viewed her performance in "The Chase. Perhaps they liked not only the performer herself, but the whole look of her character, and told the makeup department to just go with that. They probably never imagined, years in the future, people like us would love DS9 as much as we do - watching every episode in sequence over and over again - along with all of the other Star Trek shows including "The Chase" episode, to the extent we'd even notice the similarities of the two characters, yet alone find it as creepy as we do!
I always noticed that the Bajorans were one of the most human-like species in Star Trek. I remember Gul Dukat describing the Bajorans as "a bit fragile", an observation frequently made in Star Trek about humans ourselves.
While that certainly can be said about humans on a physical basis, I would take anything an overt racist like most Cardassians say with a planet sized grain of salt.
@@patrickmccurry1563 Dukat clarified by saying "physiologically speaking, of course", as if he assumed Kira knew this as well. She didn't deny it. Being a racist doesn't invalidate everything a person says about race. For instance, if a racist said that Africans are more likely to suffer from sickle cell disease than Europeans, he wouldn't be wrong.
@@azores15 To suffer. Sickle cell actually makes one resistant to malaria and other diseases. It's racist to see sickle cell as suffering.
@@kennyhudson9201 RACISM!!! A former black coworker of mind had it. If what he went through wasn't suffering, I don't know what is. People who get two copies of the sickle cell gene are very unfortunate indeed.
Your delivery on the line about ghosts and TK never being observed in the lab was just...chefs kiss.
Don't know if you've talked about it before in relation to Bajorans, but i always found it weird that Ensign Ro gets told to not wear her cultural token (earing) while on duty. Meanwhile Worf gets to prance around with his sash/bandolier as a nod to his culture. Like Riker doesn't even site any OSHA type codes, just says no earings you backwater dummy.
I wonder if Worf was allowed to wear his baldic/sash because it is military attire in his culture. Where as Ro Laran’s earring is not, it’s familial.
It's possible that she wasn't allowed to because the Cardassians were an active enemy. It may be a diplomatic problem for the UFP to allow her to do so. As the Cardassians might view it as a recognition of the Bajorans as an independent species instead of a "member" of their union. This wouldn't be an issue with the Klingons because they are directly allied with the UFP during TNG.
Kind of like how in real terms Taiwan is an independent country. Yet openly acknowledging that will and does piss off the PRC.
I think the Prophets are evolved Bajorans in service to the Continuum. Or rather, the Continuum is a conglomeration of various evolved species from the future.
11:04 Hallowed are the Ori. Something always bugged me about the Ori but I could never really put my finger on it until now. And the Ancients in Stargate.
That’s exactly who I thought of too. The bajorans being the second evolution of their species like the humans and the ancients from stargate. Stargate Atlantis explains this pretty good in their first season.
People in industrial countries today cannot or only hardly relate to how rare meat was until ca. 100+ years ago. Case in point a regiment of the royal british bodyguard is called beefeaters, as they were important enough to eat cow meat each day (very expensive back in the day). That title represented utmost importance and wealth back then. Today it sounds silly.
So yeah loosing touch with perspectives of your ancestors is very easy. Especially if you percieve time fundamentally different like the prophets do
The Prophets remind me a lot of the Overmind from "Childhood's End," they were a sort of non-corporeal hivemind that influenced the evolution of lower lifeforms into becoming like them, and joining with the Overmind once they've reached that evolutionary step. The Prophets may be future Bajorans trying to guide their own evolution in a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy, no pun intended. Like the Overmind they could also be composed of several species , including Bajorans, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were influencing other species across the galaxy or perhaps the whole universe. There's also a pretty strong religious theme playing out in the way both the Prophets and the Overmind have affected the past, present and future of the civilizations they influence.
I really enjoyed your choice to leave in the goofs and gaffs.
At 9:28 - Was Kai Opaka's given name ever revealed?
(I wanted to name my dough mixer after her, because of how her head circles around, out-of-sync with Kira and Benjamin, before their shuttle crashes in DS9 -"Battle Lines". Instead, I named the mixer Camille, after the actress Camille Saviola who played Opaka and who sadly, passed away last year.)
Not in canon episodes, but in the DS9 novels her given name is "Sulan".
A cat and I have a common ancestor but that does not mean I can convey basic concepts to my cat the Prophets have the same problem in a nutshell Sisko gave the Prophets a frame of reference to which they could work from. As Bajorans evolve so does their understanding of prophets
I always theorized that the Prophets were a species that evolved on Bajor in the Bajorans prehistory.
I've wondered about that too. The Prophets may have recognized the Bajorans as evolved versions of some animal from their time. Or maybe one of their pet species! Imagine humans as evolved as the Prophets recognizing the evolved dog. Another idea would be that they are Bajorans, but the subgroup become the Prophets and Pah Wraiths and the other Bajorans forgot (made to forget?) or mythologized the Prophets.
Great video Tyler! Bajorans are one of the most interesting races in Trek with their diverse culture. Glad they got a video dedicated for them.
I always thought so.
This is a hypothesis I can get behind.
There's so much lore that could be explored in future Star Trek projects; if only writers would reduce their laser-focus on petty territorial/racial conflicts and instead put more energy into the creative growth of the Star Trek universe.
That’s a great theory. Never really thought of that one before.
Love that Friday after work means a new Orange River video. If the Bajorans are the Prophets, and the Prophets have existed before the Bajorans so they could guide the species, is that like Fry being his own grandfather and doing the nasty in the pasty?😉
The "bloopers" took this video to a completely different level! Still laughing at "beings" :) Nice work man :)
Thanks Carl!
Yeah love that they're left in, really adds a unique style and humour 🙂
@@lifeinthevoid1595 haha, that southern accent coming out!
Another great video. You are always thought-provoking and the moments when you break from the script adds that perfect amount of humour. I normally have opinions on stuff but being honest, I'm not sure where to stand on this subject.
Great video thank you so much please keep up your amazing work stay safe and leave long and prosper
It's a very interesting theory and would explain their keen interest in Bajor. I honestly never thought of this possibility. I just assumed they were a non-corporeal species who happen to exist close to Bajor; however, that doesn't explain why they're so interested, aside from their close vicinity.
Thank you for making this video it was interesting, live live long and prosper 🖖
And, I think that just like the Vulcans fostered the humans, the Bajorans fostered the Cardassians, with a very different end result.
dammn the bajorans and federation really went cardassian on their own moon.
forgot about that bit of hiproacy
Literally will watch and love anything you make!
Dude. I love your videos. "Could Dune be Our Future" is my favorite.
Man you deserve much more subscribers
Thank you, I just wish the UA-cam algorithm agreed 😂
@subraxas I actually found out that only the first twelve hashtags show up in the public description for some reason
Nice video,I think you make great points
I'm glad you included that😆🤠🖖🏻
Another excellent video with terrific speculation! The notion of a future version of a species guiding an earlier incarnation is too fertile of ground to dismiss it outright, yet on another level it might create questions better not asked. I don't know, either way Bajorans have an interesting link to the Prophets.
Great Video! Very well done as always.🖖
Thank you Odari!
I loved this! Thoroughly researched as always. More of Bajor, please.
I think I always assumed that the Prophets were Bajorans who had ascended to another plain throughout their history and future. It probably makes more sense for them to be future Bajorans, though.
Walk with the Prophets.
Sisko intended to build a house on bajor, and Cassidy was pregnant. It's possible the prophets are descended from the sisko also
Sisko's mother is a prophet.
@@sureshmukhi2316 not exactly, sisko's mothers body was occupied by a prophet. we don't really know for sure if anything from that prophet was passed to sisko. but i guess it could be inferred at least....
I would agree its a concept the writers seem to like playing with, its like how the Q hint that humans are on the same path, it makes sense that the Prophets are a much more evolved version of the Bajorans
The Prophets are hyper evolved Bajorans and the Q are hyper evolved humans. That's why the interest in those particular civilisations.
Great video, Tyler!
I don’t know enough to say if this theory being correct. As you said there’s not much to go on. But perhaps this can be compared to Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave” where these beings actually formed in this place. They have their POV and those on Bajor have their own POV. So Bajor seen their shadows like they see Bajor’s shadows. And Sisko is like the guy who looks outside of the Cave at the real world under the Sun.
Some of the writers must have gotten a strong background of distant European Classics.
great job as always
This idea makes a lot of sense. Actually, I had long wondered the same thing about the Q and Humanity, given the former's unusually specific interest in the latter.
Excellent content as always. And in my opinion, extra excellent this episode. Thanks for your hard work Tyler. We love you.
I'm not sure one way or the other. I also hope that Star Trek's creators will never confirm or debunk this theory. I don't like it when tv shows or movies ruin our lovely fan theories. I like to do all these fanboying unimpeded.
This was a good one!
For Star Trek universe we have the progenitors who started seeding but we also have things like Q who could have been guiding species so they would have some play things for the future. It could be that we see with humans who get weird radiation we become god like. Maybe that is the “end” of all the progenitors children.
your videos are very engaging. your choice of topics are excellent. and not just like eveyone else who seem to make all their content on the same handful of subjects over and over
Fantastic! This was a difficult topic. It could easily have been an hour at minimum 👍
UA-cam waited three days to give me a push notification on this video☹️
Keep up the awesome content, bro
I often wondered if the whole idea behind the prophets and Pa wraiths really comes from CS Lewis. I say this because he wrote a science fiction trilogy called the Space Trilogy or Ransom Trilogy where one of the alien races parallel the prophets in an uncanny way except Lewis gives them a name, which derives from a mix of Hebrew and Old English, Eldilla and the highest intelligence being is an Eldilla called on Oyarsa. So slight differences but not by much. Lewis actually gets the idea as an amalgamation of the biblical angels as well as something Tolkien, his friend, was fond of saying in his apologetics which is, " what we call history God calls mythology and what we call mythology God would call history." Now it's entirely possible the Star Trek creators and Gene Roddenberry came up with the prophets all on their own in which case the similarities are from similar resource material for inspiration in which case they are just coincidence. But having read the space trilogy and being a fan of DS9 I couldn't help but see a striking similarity. Read at least Out of the Silent Planet and you can see what I mean.
They do have some kinda band as in ds9 they mentioned they are off bajor. In my view there 2 options. 1. They are indeed evolved bajorans from the future. Or option 2 they are a different evolution yet still from Bojar simular like the Lantians in Stargate or from the first evolution and humans the second evolution
Interesting idea. There's been a couple of species that have evolved into a higher state that's non corporal in star trek. Can't think of specific examples off hand. I think the Q have always been Q like
there was an episode or two of voyager involving Q and the continuum that hints on the idea that the Q were not always as all knowing and all powerful and immortal(and maybe not immortal as Q died in picards show) i believe it was the episode where the voyager crew had unwittingly freed the other Q from the comet. the one who wanted to die...
I think the Q are doing that reverse grandfather thing. With humans being their root stock.
Fantastic informative piece sir thanks, you could do a video on the Engineers in ALIEN :)
There's another guy who's done 10s of hours of videos on the engineers, all the info you could ever ask for.
Awesome video.
Thank you Alexander!
Thanks for covering this topic Tyler! To me, the prophets would be the end state of the Bajoran pursuit of philosophy and spirituality. If at some future time, the Bajorans ascend and are no long temporally linear, they could have spent virtually an eternity as the prophets before their involvement with the current Bajorans or the emissary. I'm thinking some of the writers of DS9 thought of this idea but any confirmation of it was written out to avoid confusing the audience too much. Although I definitely agree with the idea of the Prophets being some sort of "future bajorans", I can see how it would be too much for the average viewer in the 90s.
Thank you for this interesting look at one of Star Trek's most well known races
Great work 👏👍. Love how much research you put into these. Keep them coming.
Thank you!
Excellent video.
Thank you James!
thanks for the video, I need to watch the rest of DS9
I hadn't thought of this until I saw Stargate SG1 and the Ancients help humans ascend.
We've seen evidence of corporeal beings becoming transcendent 'somethings' many times in StarTrek.
If memory serves, one story dealt with the precise moment a species 'legged up' and became non-material.
Could the wormhole simply have been an expression of loneliness on the part of non-corporeal life?
It is hard to imagine any other reason why the prophets are so obsessed with Bajorans. They have easy access to half the entire galaxy and much of the past and future. Why focus entirely, as far as we can see, on one specific primitive, in the galactic sense, species?
Honestly, it just fit in the series. But maybe they aren't so almighty as they seem. Or bound to this area of space, around their wormhole.
I think future Bajorans ascended and became the prophets. Somehow they went through an ascension process that transformed their bodies into pure energy. Maybe they have a prophecy about that. Lots of Earth religions believe in some kind of Rapture or ascension event for humans in the future based on ancient prophecies. Maybe humans will go through the same ascension process as the Bajorans of the future.
The Organians from the TOS episode Errand of Mercy were also beings evolved to be pure energy.
After hearing that Bajor is only 50 or so light years from Earth, "Deep" Space Nine has to be one of the most inaccurately named stations out there!
Good vid though 👍
That was my opinion after the first season.
This is a good episode 👍🏼
Hell yeah, someone else with the theory that they never sent the orbs until after Sisko talked with them!
Did anyone ever watch "The 4400"?
By the end of season 1 it was turning out the demigod aliens were humans from way far into the future
Damn I almost forgot about that show. Loved season one but thought the future human thing was a bit lame. Did it have consecutive seasons? How did it turn out?
@@barkasz6066 Honestly I didn't get far into season 2 at all
Great video man! The wormhole effect the solar system? Are cardies and bajorans related?
The Bajoran wormhole is certainly a topic in and of itself that I would love to make a video about. And I briefly touched on the biological connection between the Bajorans and Cardassians in my Cardassians video from last year, but I could see revisiting that topic!
If we ever discover extraterrestrial life, our space agencies would be wise to consult or hire you to study or undertake the study of such life, thier evolutionary exobiology, & environment. Yes, you do so with scifi, but the enthuisiasim, imagination, openmindedness, & exploring possibilities you demonstrate, are very necessary attributes, & certainly correlate to such an endeavor. What I mean, is that you're a prettyfartsmeller, oops, I mean pretty smart feller! Your sense of humor is a giggle too! A fan, from Dallas, Texas
*raising one eyebrow* Fascinating!
Outstanding video many thanks dude
You have to admit the ending really ties into the B5 conspiracy theories.
I’ve been watching DS9 since the beginning and I have never heard this theory but I love it!!
LMAO you struggled with language in this one. I felt the sympathy over that in my bones. I struggled to say the word 'unexplained' for like 20 minutes last might. Like... I'm a native speaker, tongue, we've been together for years, why do me this way?
Anyway, awesome video. I like your Trek videos, and your other canons' videos. Have you ever thought about the Stargate franchise before? I know a lot of us are here for the Trek vids, but I also know that could restrict you too. I know you did Mass Effect before too. I don't think enough people have approached those things the way you would/do.
Stargate might be a good place to jump on. Not only for Christopher Judge's continued presence as Kratos, but also because Richard Dean Anderson and the others state there IS a Stargate project in discussion/in pre-production, it seems.
Yeah would love some OrangeRiver perspective on Stargate
After watching a video that extended the kardashev scale out to include seven types instead of the original three, i like thinking of start trek species on this scale. This would place the prophets as a minimum type 4 civilization. They're able to create stable wormholes, they exist as energy, and other races worship them as gods. But given their nature regarding time, they may even be a type 6 civilization. I would say the Q are definitely type 6. This places a race at the end of it's evolution where it has completely mastered the laws of the universe, multiverse, multiple dimensions, and time. Basically, they are as close as they can come to "God" or a type 7 civilization which is the omniverse itself, without actually being that God. At this point, time as we know it has no meaning for these beings. Past present and future are all the same, and they can basically do whatever they want with it. With this in mind, it's very possible that the prophets are the future bajorans at the end of their evolutionary cycle. I kind of like the idea.
It could also be the reverse, that the prophets evolved (devolved?) into Bajorans to experience the physical/mortal world after their first contact with Sisko. Whatever their connection is they seem to be a step above humans/Bajorans but a step below the Q. As far as I can remember Q doesn’t mention or refer to them whatsoever while he is on DS9 with Vash for that 1 episode.
Fantastic video! Thank you!
Man I love Deep Space Nine. But if you had just described all of this stuff to me before I watched it, I would have thought it was stupid, lol
This is me in the past feeding the algorithm
The Bajorans destroyed a habitable moon, to build a giant power plant?
Much like Humons indeed.
The large moon could be tidally locked. This would make high tide one one side of the planet, and low tide on the other. An interesting side effect would be that a small portion of the planet would get an eclipse every day.
The Bajorans ascending as energy beings has a basis in trek lore when you remember the next gen episode "Transfigurations"
Food for thought enjoyed!
Ahhhhh yeah!
Being that the prophets are based on the Vorlons and the Bajorans the Minbari, which groups mirror the Narn and Centauri in this series?
I remember this theory being discussed in forums back in the earlier days of the internet, 2010-ish. Some questions remain unanswered.
All these things that I know now.
Makes sense indeed. To be „of Bajor“ must mean something. The only thing that doesn't seem to fit to me is that Sisko was born on Earth, not on Bajor. Why on another planet?
Well, Sisko's mom was a prophet so he is kind of "of Bajor" by proxy sin e his mom is of Bajor so in a way he too is as well.
@@CONSOLETRUTH2 Yes, sure, but that still does not explain it. Why not find a „proxy“ on Bajor? Was there something so special in one of Ben Sisko's parents that could not be found in anyone on Bajor? 🤔
The Pah-Wraiths and their fire caves makes me think of the much later Stargate-SG1 verse with the Ori.
About the Bajoran solarships how did they get those things up into orbit?!?
I read the title and thought, what the hell is he taking about? And then I thought about it… well, I guess it’s Star Trek and it would make some sense.
That progenitor episode was odd if only, because the Earth was molten 4.5 billion years ago. They should have said closer to 3.8 or so, IMO. At least then there was an actual ocean forming.
Well, I suppose there is some evidence that oceans (or at least some surface water) and life on Earth both date back to over 4 billion years ago, but...I take your point lol. And another issue I've always had with the Progenitors: what about all the worlds Star Trek aliens inhabit (supposedly "natively") that are less than 4.5 billion years old? This is why I think the Progenitors may have seeded their genetic code on asteroids and comets that could have theoretically carried organic material to different places throughout various solar systems.
They could've used seeding satellites with timers and sensors to seed a planet when it was the right time or self-destruct if it doesn't pan out.
My theory is bejor was abandoned by an ancient al-aurion colony. this colony abandoned the planet because they evolved until they could create the celestial temple but the reason they put it in a wormhole that comes out somewhere is because it is a glorified machine whose mechanical inefficiency produces phenomenon that appear magical such as spirits escaping evil dimensions into ours (pah wraiths, and a stellar ribbon that can transport anyone to a generic dimension similar to the environment in the celestial temple.
huh... i never considered this. interesting!
I still hold with the obvious.."the future is the past..the past is the the future..the present is transition.." puzzle. They don't fully understand..because they see it at the same time..so for them..it's no different than us mere mortals..trying to identify the front of a spheroid object/shape..and (with out it being magnetically dynamic even a bit)..where it's top..thus..bottom... is.
2:05 Every Earthling woman: "5 months?"
Trendy theory to explain omnipotent beings that interact with lesser beings. That the former are future versions of the latter. Works for almost everything.
Or maybe a small society of past Bajorans. Where did the time portal from 'Time's Orphan' come from? Maybe a group of Bajorans left there home world, found another near by world, and began experimenting with time travel, before learning how to exist outside of space and time.