Can these mods save the Ibanez Edge Zero tremolo? Hantug Brass Block
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
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Links:
Edge Zero 7-string spring: www.meinlshop.de/en/ibanez/sp...
Hantug Brass Block: www.ebay.de/itm/204075495006?...
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0:00 Intro
0:27 My problem with the trem
2:20 Hantug Brass Block
3:17 Installation
6:10 Is it more fluttery now?
7:05 Different springs?
10:10 Benefits of the Brass Block
11:11 Final Words - Розваги
Near the end of the video you asked for any improvements we may have made. I replaced the whammy bar and cylinder for less than $20 with a Floyd Rose FRTAPIBP whammy bar. This is a drop-in setup, and you can adjust the small allen wrench screw to make the bar very tight. The tighter the bar, the better connection, and the more it flutters. It just barely fits the Edge Zero II I have on one of my guitars, but it made a world of difference to me. I feel like you were looking for the same thing I was to improve this trem system and I hope I'm not too late in that this is about a year later from when you posted the video!
I have an RG550 and was having serious FOMO about not having a guitar with an Edge zero, because the dial for spring tension & zero point bar seemed like such an upgrade! But this helped set my expectations back a bit. Definintely enjoyed watching this and learned a lot about the bridge, thank you so much for making this!
Two regular length springs and a set of 9 thru 42, great flutters. Three springs...too stuff.
More importantly, using only two springs makes suble whammy work, like Jeff Beck "Where Were You", possible.
Man its good to see you back..
I think it's a distribution of mass problem. The EZ trem is short and low mass compared to the original Edge which is heavier and longer. So when you flutter the mass shifts back and forth for a longer time on the Original Edge. That's why the EZ flutter more when you have the arm pointing backwards because the arm towards the back is slightly shifting the mass towards the end away from the strings.
Looking like a young David Byrne. 🤘
What I did on my edge zero was lubricating the posts, now it gets back to neutral position almost perfectly (maybe 98-99%) and bounces even better than before. I used some leftover grease which I don't even know what it is, but I read that you can even try lip balm, but honestly I don't know if it's just placebo effect...
Also what I found interesting is the difference in the tremolo arm installation, I think that may affect the bounciness since if it's not tight enough the energy coming from you hitting the bar will dissipate mostly in the loose connection between the bar and the tremolo.
Do you mean greasing the posts where the knife edge comes in contact? thanks
@@nowidoitmyself2954 Yes, exactly. Just a tiny bit of grease.
I have an edge III that is like this and I was always modding it and changing the blocks on my strats and stuff and i finally broke down and bought a 84 floyd reissiue for a swamp ash partscaster and it was totally worth it. i'm on the fense about getting a floyd or gotoh and trashing the edge III although i have heard good things about the new eges and the edge pro trems. flutter test is king
Try polishing the edges,and posts. Mirror shine. Its all about that smooth tight contact, that "allows" easy, no friction movement. Try even lubing it.
The Brass Block probably does help extend natural sustain (30% more with mine). Removing the ZPS bar and additional springs (as you have) ought to help. For the rest, I agree that 'softer' springs are the way to go. The springs have to be able to 'flex' back & forward with a slow, gradual decay to create Flutter. A short/stiff spring is less likely to be able to do this. I experimented with a Floyd style trem and got my best results with a heavier Brass Block and Softer Springs. Reducing any other friction in the system to a minimum (e.g. perfect knife edges/ungrooved posts etc.) is the only other thing you can do. Better flutter in other guitars may just be luck of the draw/reduced spring tension as a result of production variance
AFter testing over and over I concluded that the only thing that REALLY affects the flutter is the wammy bar, its weight, the lenght and how much is tight (and the way/mechanism that tight the bar) :)
fu-tone make blocks as well, i've had their stuff and i like it. the brass makes a difference tonally but yes not really in terms of function.
I have two rg’s both with the edge zero trem. I took out the counter springs and one flutters great, but the other doesn’t. I guess it’s the luck of the draw as far as the physical mechanics of each individual unit. The one that didn’t flutter, I reinstalled the counter springs and just use it as a solidly tuned guitar. The one that does flutter I have setup in e flat with 10-46 strings. Maybe give that a try?
Have you tightened down the locking studs? They keep the posts rock solid and any movement in them would kill flutter. Some earlier edge zero terms did not have the studs installed as standard, later models had them included from the factory.
i got rid of my 6 string zero but absolutely love the 7 , getting a sophia 292 seven soon tho
oh man, this whole struggle really put me back in time when I got my Ibanez JBM27 and spend 5 hours trying to figure out how to tune it, instead of actually playing...
Also, I have the same issue with the springs...
The EGEN18 springs are supposed to be lighter and more "fluttery". They are a straight drop in for the edge zero i believe.
Have you tried wrapping the trem arm with Teflon tape or using the arm from the trem you like in the other guitar. The fit of those little plastic bushings has a huge amount to do with flutter
Very strange since i have the opposite problem: i have a very fluttery Edge Zero II and a very stiff Edge Pro.
nice guitar! why don;t you try to remove the spring washers that hold the spring from vibrating? might get the job done, besides removing the zero point bar
I have an Ibanez S570 with an edge zero which does flutter like crazy. It flutters as much as my RG 550 with the OG edge trem. I guess they vary from trem to trem.
Mine flutters fine. Even with the zps engaged. Maybe not as much as my OFR, but honestly how often are you going to flutter? Not every song I hope. I wouldn’t mind getting that brass block though.
Did you check the posts and the knife edge on the tremolo ? Maybe try polish them to reduce the friction. Why not build your own floyd guitar ? :) Started building this this your and number 6 is almost done. Started after your videos of building your guitars. Greetings
did you check the knife edges of the trem? if they are blunt the flutter effect and the tuning stability decreases. maybe the 2 pivot screws as well. if adjust the height of the trem while under tension, you
're gonna ruin the knife edges and cut into the 2 screws where the knife edge is pivoting.
I found this video while digging out my RG. Funnily enough I have the exact same guitar and exact same issues with it. The tremolo is fun but once I got a real German Floyd Rose on my ESP Forest, it was really hard to go back to the trem on the RG. Also as a side note, does anyone else with the same guitar find the particular basswood they made the RG3570 out of to be insanely soft? I have other guitars I have bumped around but show very little if any wear, whereas my RG has a few paint chips from the lightest of touches against a hard surface. I get basswood is soft but with 2 of my RG's, they are so soft that I occasionally find new paint chips from making the slightest contact with a surface, so lightly I didn't even realize the guitar made contact with anything. My mahogany and ash ESP has way more hours of play on it, been bumped around plenty more and I don't think I've put a single mark, chip or dent on it. Just curious what other peoples experiences have been with this and other RG Prestige guitars, both positive and negative.
Sir. Excellent video. That's true science. Reporting results regardless of success.
Sorry for loosing 100euros.
Now. I have the edge 0. And I was able to improve it.
I believe the problem is the loose lever. So I added a tiny bit of plumbing tape on the tip.
Now it's way tighter. Gove it a try
You can get custom high mass tremolo arm for Ibanez edge. I assume it would work on the zero?
Gluing the other block to the brass block for even more mass?
I have an Ibanez S Series that flutters like crazy. It has what I think is called edge zero low pro? It's all stock but I do use 9 - 46 gauge strings (elixir polyweb).
What pickups you use
I like all my Edge Zeros :) But I understand your feelings. The better the guitars are that you own and the better you become as a player, the smaller are the details that annoy you :D
Beside from easy spring adjustment in the back is there ant pros of the Ez compared to Ep or OE, 🧐would like to heard ur comparasion
Try to remobe One of the bars in the back of the trem !!
Old tech secret...... chapstick on knife edges. Also add thin layer of chapstick to posts where the edges meet the posts
If you switch out the ZPS to the traditional claw, you’re going to hear a huge difference in my experience.
Have you seen the original video Ibanez put out when this was first released? They showed you can remove 2 of the springs with the cross bar and it makes it less tight and flutter smoother. I did this and it did improve it but nothing like my original rg550. Hope this helps!
yeah I did the same thing for mine after watching ibanez's video and it worked really well.
They are already removed!!! Check at 8:24
Is there much play in the trem arm / arm holder? I have an edge pro from 2003 and changed the arm holder to a 'Red Bishop Magik Arm' , added an extra nut for stability, and all play in the arm is gone. Tightening the bolt which holds the arm holder in place would have the same effect however.
No, the arm sits tightly as it should!
I think McRocklin said there are some rubber bits in his trem that make it bounce more somehow.
I would say don’t get rid of the guitar. Sometimes roadblocks or frustrations with your instrument make you work harder/play harder to get the results you want.
Yeah but I'm not sure where they added the rubber bits...
I think an instrument should be the opposite of a roadblock on my creative journey!😅
Rubber would seem to absorb/redirect energy and motion, thus reducing flutters.
Have you heard of Sophia Tremolos? What I've heard is that these are specifically made to replace these Edge Tremolos. They are also a lot more user friendly than Floyds and Edge trems, according to some reviews that I've seen.
Nope, do you have an idea which of their models that would be?
@@MilianMalivukMusic according to the FAQ on their website, that would be the Sophia 2:92.
He is using a EDGE ZERO 2 which is Huge difference between the EDGE 0 ! The Edge 0 is basically a Floyd with a push in arm ! This one has a screw down arm which has heaps of play in it ! I just ordered a RED BISHOP ARM for both which is the best Arm I’ve ever used ! EDGE 0 is the best with a RED BISHOP ARM from Japan ! The god damn things we do for a GETCHA PULL !!!!
I have a 350 with an Edge Zero II and it isn't that flutter-friendly either, especially compared to my 550. I still like the EZII, though. It's a good system. I think you have basically identified the actual problem: The springs - and the fact that we can't just replace them with ones that have different tension profiles. The pull is really, really different compared to my Original Edge in standard configuration. The pull and the bounce-back on the EZII is considerably harder. The unit feels generally stiffer to play. That's the springs. Somebody here recommended lubrication on the posts. I can already tell you that this won't change a thing. I do lubricate the posts every 6 months or so and it does nothing in regards to how the EZII actually operates.
The EZII doesn't flutter as well as the Original Edge because the EZII is a considerably inferior to the Original Edge.
You don't need 3 springs. From a pure mechanical perspective you could even use just 1 spring. Worst case scenario, you'll need to find extra-stiff springs.
That said, I sugged you take a proper look at the tremolo blades and the tremolo posts for any signs of wear. That could be a potential cause for the tremolo not performing 100%.
I had the same issue of weak-non existant flutter from my 1997 Prestige RG 3120 (Edge Lo-Pro) ... I actually got rid of that guitar because of it. 15 years later, I bought a Iron Lable RGIX-6 with a Zero II on it... it fluttered fine, but... NONE flutter like an original Edge... not even a perfectly set up Original Floyd will.
less springs in the back. and heavier tremolo bar will do the trick.
.011-.046 has to much tenson. This decrease the "flutter" effect, because you have more tension in Addition. Try the strings ibanez' advise for this unit: 009 - 042
I have the Original edge on my JEM77FP JEM77FP the effect is no other.
Have you an other effect like Sustain?
He's using 11-52 in drop C, tension isn't far off from 9-42 in E standard
I use the bridge without the zero point, ibanez rgt220z
Or pre stretch the springs to reduce tension ?
You can reduce spring tensions with the adjustment screws
Yeah I hate the edge zero trem.. Got a Ibanez RGD2127z and its the only trem equipped guitar where I blocked off the trem system.. love the lowpro, original edge and floyd rose originals tho
Did the hantug brass make a big difference in sustain and tone or no difference?
Not sure if this can help you, but I installed in two Caparison guitars new Floyd Rose brass blocks (compared to stock zinc ones in Schaller tremolos), and it made a ton of difference in sustain and tone. Sustain is def longer (I recorded it and analysed), and tone is a bit more harmonically richer and "warmer" (zinc used to bring out some spikey overtones sometimes). When playing, personal feel is that it is a bit more "punchier", but that's due to added weight to the trem block. So, I would expect the same thing from Hantug brass block to be honest.
@@PetarMakesNoise thanks for the information
You should try a heavier bar. That should in theory cause it to flutter for longer
how u get this aggressive as heck tone man
Neural DSP Archetype: Nolly!
go to a hardware store and show them the spring and ask for different spring gauges
This maybe a stupid comment and a no brainer and you've probably already done this, but make sure both trem posts are leveled with each other so that the trem is perfectly parallel with the body. That in my mind will probably make it flutter more.
I would try a lighter Guage string. This would cause your trem to drop into your guitar. So then you would want to losen up the springs in the back to bring your bridge back up into place nice n flush. This should give you more flutter. I'm thinking the system is too tight thus not fluttering as well.
This could work.
On a regular Floyd, tuned E std, with 9 thru 42, two springs, I get great flutter.
Swap in 10s and I have to tighten the springs, and yet an even worse flutter scenario, adding a third spring with less overall spring tension...reduces flutters.
I've got RG350 DXZ and all I need to do is simply remove the tension bar, which turning back trem block to a "zero" point. I din't see here that piece of trem but I think you could simply remove the spring which is pushing back the block. If it works, you can send me 100$ =)
All my edge zeros don’t flutter bud!
Why not try lighter gauge strings? It is more about the string tension than what block is under your bridge.
This gauge in drop C is already pretty light, shouldn't be a problem, tension is similar on my Genesis, which is in Drop B with a 56 gauge!
@@MilianMalivukMusic trust me, i am using regulae 10-46 for drop C#. Try 11-49s and see if that makes a difference. Stay Metal Ray even uses 9-42 on his Floyd Rose Strat for Drop C#.
@@memq1987 It's very true. It's the first thing I thought of when he said he was using 11's on there - although it DOES obviously work on the Genesis. Mine is tuned to drop C with a .09 to .042 gauge. Yeah - I'm old skool. ;-)
I just don't mind the looser feel of thinner strings and in my opinion they actually sound better (and tighter with a more 'stringy' sound) than thicker strings. Makes me play better too and that's all that matters in the end. Remember that, as an eighties fan myself, all our guitar heroes back in the day were using .09's or even .08's! Of course a drop D was already pretty low back then, but they also used to use Eb tunings in general, which made a drop D actually a drop C#. So yeah, long story short - just for fun, try to use lighter gauge strings and see where it leads you to. Cheers!
What guitar did he say it was?
He said it's an RG3570z.
Thank you beautiful guitar, I want one
Surely the answer is simple, swap it to an Edge and sell the Edge zero. Also, if your so analytical in your playing, maybe go to a store and play the guitar before hand to see if it works, how you want.
You can't. Another bad thing about the zero is that I doesn't fit any other terms
well if you think about it, a heavier brass block will have more momentum than a lighter one ,therefore it should flutter more. Next stage, someone please make a tungsten block please....
Black hole trem block
It's not supposed to flutter. That's why it's called the zero it returns to zero. if you wanted to flutter. You have to back off the stabilizer 🤯
Drop in the Gotho and be done with it already.
Leave it to the Turkish to offer a good hand tug.
Yeah, I’ll see myself out.
Luxury problems... use the 550 ...
snake oil
Bro…you gotta change the springs, not the block.
Bro…he dedicated an entire section of the video to springs and they were about as helpful as your comment 😘
Great video, Milian. The Edge zero is a cool concept but there are unfortunate sacrifices. Super glad the original edge and Lo pro edge trems are still around bc there is just nothing like them. Also, the jam in this video is super sick.
The reason you're not getting as much flutter is because of the extremely heavy gauge strings you are using. The higher tension of the strings and counter-tension of the back springs dampens your string vibrations. Also using an additional spring will also curtail string vibration. Cheap way to prove this is to change to an 8 gauge set and return to 2 springs only - you'll flutter like nobody's business. Cheers.
jesus christ dude, i was searching for ur channel for a week. why did you change channel pic and name? i come back to your channel time to time for the tunes you make, and this time i couldnt find you, i had to manualy search u between thousands of subscribed channels... hell that was frustrating
Really sorry to hear this, when I google "Soulhenge" though the first search result is a link to my channel even with the new name. Same thing on UA-cam itself, results are all related to my channel.
@@MilianMalivukMusic if only i could remember all channel names lol, i tired like "soulbound" "starlight" whatever the heck, but one thing i remembered is logo spining-like star on black background, comes out there was no logo like that in my 2k+ subscriptions . So i started to manualy check channels i dont remember, because i knew i did not unsubscribed. usually i searched for "markline guitar" that was a cool thing i asociated with ur channel but i forgot the name of the brand lol, tried to google "itialian custom made electric guitars" but it was worthless xD just to catch ur channel! also i remembered u made diy guitar, i started youtube search on diy guitar, lost like 3 hours and couldnt find anything... well it took me over a week untill i tried "brute force search" for you channel. and now i finaly got you, saved few videos in my playlists just to save my tame if i would think about you in a few years :)
And all this was just to listen some stuff you play, i really like your tunes, sadly u dont talk alot about it, first things comes to mind is 7string video u made few years ago, there u told us u r heavyly inspired by Rabea. I lvled up my theory a bit since then and now i know what chord voicings are, so i can analyse some stuff that i like. Helps alot, but still would be nice to hear more videos on your chord approach.
Well any way pardon me for this messy poem, that was just a random story from a random russian subscriber. Might explain why people should think twice before making changes to a channel like that(you could leave a logo at least duh -.-) i'll probobly rewatch few videos and go away for few years just to find you again lol. Best wishes🤗
I dunno man, mine works just fine :/ I just removed the bar.
Uhm...Your string gauge might be too heavy for the whole design (including the springs) of that tremolo system. You've put .11-.52., dude...That's some heavy shit there for a 6-string guitar. These guitars are sold with .09-.42 string sets.
I have an ESP-LTD with a set of .11 on it, but it's a fixed bridge construction & I paid a Luthier to make sure that the neck was properly positioned for these, so it wouldn't break right off.