True. It will probably demonstrate the progress we've made in that time and likely everyone will be driving EVs. But the infrastructure & tech just aren't there yet.
We also dont have the power management for everyone to be driving electric cars. In California they are already running into a problem where people can charge every other day. Ask me how I know... So my car that gets 60miles per charge and I have to drive 20miles to work I can't drive hardly anywhere else. The power grid is not built for it. It's coming back and slapping us in the face
Just watched the episode and can see what you’re saying, for what you guys do with your 4wd’s electric is a long way off, but not every ute sold does the Tele track, how many utes and SUV’s never leave the pavement, these are the real targets, the Chelsea tractors. Given the speed that this industry is moving, ten years is going to be like 100 years of advancement in gas term
This is a really interesting ep. Another factor to consider is not just waiting to charge a large battery EV, it's the wait time to ACCESS a charger - if there's a charging station on a main route in the lead up to holidays, there will be a mad queue. So the one hour charge time could work out to two hours or more. So unless there's a revolution in battery & charging infrastructure, this is years away. Oil exists on the Australian continent - we should utilise the resources we have, and manage the transition once the EV technology & infrastructure has matured effectively. Thanks for raising this issue, it's important. ✌️
@@coopermathews9288 the planet should have been destroyed about 30 times over according to climate scientist over the years. Anyone giving any kind of timeline on climate stuff just doesn't understand how things really work. You are ignorant.
Great edition guys. Just noted that none of those US vehicles had a bullbar, spotties etc and all the additional weight for when we put our cars together. The impact on range would be quite significant. Then they don't consider that LiIon batteries aren't recyclable and a fire can't be put out. Hydrogen, more explosive than LPG.
Spot on boys. I'd say I am green by keeping the old LN106 running and not replacing it. A vehicle that you keep running for hundreds of thousands of K's is better than using all the raw materials needed for a new rig
Yeah true, but honestly, I care about saving fuel and I don't care at all for 'saving the environment'. It needs no help from me and they're opening a new coal-fired plant daily in China so I'm just going to disappoint myself if I try to get into that.
When debating the feasibility of EV 4x4's, remember a lot of the same people who want outlaw petroleum powered vehicles do NOT care if you can no longer travel across country off the beaten path. They would be delighted if your environment "damaging" vehicles were parked indefinitely so feasibility is of little concern to them.
Yeah its unfortunate, we will be in all out war with our own government in the not to distant future. Stick together and don't forget about our farmers.... they are in the shit already.
I'm an American that just moved to Australia up in the pilbra. I've been looking at buying a 2022 F-350 which in the platinum package in the states would be around 85k-100k depending on options. Here in Australia that same truck I'm looking at between 200k and 270k for the same truck. So you guys are right about after all the tax and fees will make them so hard to afford! But here in Australia with the distances that need to be covered here they are completely impractical. I watched a video where Bobcat the skid steer equipment company has made an all electric skid steer if you use it at 100% of the available power you get 4hrs of continuous usage then it would have to be charged for 10hrs for a full charge. I don't understand how people think these will be a good thing for any country! Love the show guys keep up there great work watch all of your videos!
@@richchrestenson yeah here in the US California is trying to force all new cars have to be electric by 2025 I think. The rediculous part is that they had rolling black outs because the grid could support all of the AC units during a heat wave. Haha also known as the desert. Lol
@@joshuabawdon9519 why would you need to be a sparky to fix a CV? The CVs are the same as any other car. Everything that normally breaks on a petrol or diesel doesn't exist on electric so they're much more reliable. If it's computers that you're scared of then they have less of those than a modern petrol or diesel anyway
I live in Las Vegas Nevada. There is massive desert I off road my Jeep Gladiator on. Charging in Death Valley is not possible. It's scorching hot and remote. Also the mountians to the north are thick woods and remote as well. I will definitely stick with my petrol vehicle!!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Charging everywhere is possible with electrics, just carry a couple of solar panels like they commonly do in Australia. If you run out of fuel out there then you're stuffed....
I'm in the US, and even here, there are many that feel the same. Electric is nice on paper, but in the real world, it isn't feasible outside of city use.
I reckon if you are a builder working in the suburbs it could be pretty useful because you can run your tools from it and it's big enough to cart things around.
@@SuperMegaWoofer3000 Except of course you can't because the battery is not big enough to run serious tools all day, the machine is no good for towing. And a small-time builder is likely to be off-grid, even in the suburbs. Besides For that price you could buy an f250/350 or a smaller heavy rigid truck and then you might have a useful tool.
Something that has not been called out is the number of charging outlets in remote locations. Even if charging is available in remote locations, not much good if 5 EVs rockup and there are only 2 outlets.
If they are going to put the effort in to install charging outlets in remote places then I'm sure whoever does it will be smart enough to put the right amount of chargers suited for that location but to be fair it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't
Oh no what if more than 10 cars pull up to a petrol station at the same time? You line up mate its pretty simple. Imagine the first person to explain how fuel is going to work, mining it and setting up a distribution network across the country. You would say that is crazy and impossible but we figured it out didn't we
@@tangybuttfrogfpv8772 that's unrealistic given it takes 2.5 to 3 mins for 10 gallons of flow per minute to fuel up Compared to 1000% more wait time for EVs with fast chargers (30 mins to charge to 85-90% do the math on the wait time. Let's not ignore the fact that even electric do happen to have a carbon footprint, and situations where they do underperform horribly like towing and heavy load uphill, for a city car they make absolute sense, but for off roading we still need to wait for battery tech to improve to match somewhat energy density in volume to that of fuel.
@@topsecret5 they will figure it out, look at rc cars. Electric is cheaper, faster, more reliable and better in every way. I like solutions not excuses. Hundreds of years ago you would be the one refusing to switch from horse to car. Horses are cheaper, more reliable, longer range than cars at the time and you can feed your horse anywhere but you couldn't get fuel from anywhere at the time
@@tangybuttfrogfpv8772 we are in the subject of 4x4's and hey if you wanna go electric more power to you, my thing is forcing those of us who want to still use diesel or gas powered vehicles due to their simplicity, can be used in remote locations or simply nothing exist that matches the capability (ie my brothers 7.3 excursion can carry 9 people while towing 4klbs and gets 23mpg with a range of 800 miles with 38" tires and can go off roading also) look up TFL trucks and their recent test with the Ford lighting and how it gave an 85 mile range towing a 6.5k lbs trailer at the gauntlet in CO. I'm fine with owning an electric daily driver, but for long range travel, towing or offroading/overlanding they don't hold a real chance unless you tow a trailer made out of batteries or a generator, also inverters tend to fail when Immersed so there is that too.
It's a missed opportunity to have a battery standard, so instead of waiting to charge, you swap a battery, just like we all do now with 9kg gas cylinders. If Governments were visionary they would think this through - drive in, battery drops out from below and a replacement clips into place. I don't wait for my cordless drill to recharge, i use another battery.
renalt do this, the telsla trucks in development tmk will employ the same system, the limiting factor is labor/stealership costs you can bet it won't be free or cheap
@@alt7488 if you need to go to the dealership to get a fresh battery that kind of kills the point. You don't have to go to the dealership to fill a tank of gas. The point is trying to speed up and increase efficiency of "re-fueling" stops by just swapping batteries instead of charging the one in your vehicle.
Would have liked to hear you discuss more of the benefits of the technology compared to fossil powered 4wd as well. On paper the amount of torque/instant torque, motors on all wheels as opposed to needing diff locks + better clearance with no diff pumpkin. No need for air/snorkel to run. Also less moving parts in theory means less maintenance outside the battery replacement discussed. No tail shaft could mean easy to have a flat area/bed in a cabin? I'm sure there's a bunch more people can think of. The charging/range tech might not be there but would be good to explore some of the benefits we can look forward to down the track.
Hear, hear. This pair are already convinced that EVs won't work, after all there are no petrol stations on the Canning or across the Simpson so why would anyone put chargers there. In China, vehicles are already on sale with swappable battery packs - a change takes under 5 min. For towing, there are already experiments with caravans/trailers with their own battery packs and motors so that towing does not cut the vehicles range by a great amount. Batteries already last the life of the vehicle and I have heard of at least one person who has bought an early Nissan Leaf cheap because it had a bad battery - got himself a cheap vehicle as he only had to change one small pack of cells to bring the battery back to full power. This all sounds as if it was recorded 10 yrs ago.
They won't work here in the US either. The range is just not good enough. We have no charging infrastructure in place. How do I go on a long road trip up to the mountains when there is nowhere to charge up there? Texas is also a massive place, we cover huge distance as well. I can fill up my Jeep in 2 minutes and continue on my way. Why would I want to sit around waiting an hour for a charge? Plus, a battery is just storage. The energy is created mostly from coal, so why can't I just keep my internal combustion engine? Also, you can't buy a Lightning or a Hummer for msrp, they have massive markup.
I would like to see you touch on the fact that a huge percentage of regional transport is predominantly Road Trains..... I can't wait to see how heavy a battery would be for one of those suckers!
There's an American UA-cam channel called TFL that got the hybrid Wrangler and took it off road. It had an all-electric range of 32 miles on the road but when driven off road in all-electric mode only managed 3 miles before the engine cut in due to an almost flat battery.
Shauno and Jock Electric vehicles are becoming more talked about. Yes, we ask questions about milage, battery replacement and how robust these 4WD vehicles can be. Shauno, you mentioned about going green for the environment. I think what most people are forgetting is the magnitude in mining resources to build batteries for Electric vehicles. Have the greens realised such impact.
There’s a bloke in vic who is converting old 4bies into 4wd evs and he’s getting ranges of 700km+ per charge. We also are constantly getting better and better technology that is improving our batteries, their charge, the power the motors can produce under load, a whole range of other factors such as increasing production of evs bringing price down of both vehicles and parts. You also have to remember the same issues of a place to ‘refill’ (charging station/servo) and running out of juice apply to both vehicles
Plus no more worrying about building out 12v. A properly built EV has a battery system most off roaders would drool over if they were able to use it. First EV builder to capitalise and build in a power point for a fridge, coffee machine and an induction cooker will win.
@@BenGovett I wouldn't drool, unless it was a hybrid, range anxiety in the bush is truely a thing specially running those 3 things you mentioned lol. Ford has a nice middle of the road compromise F150 that can run Ev or a 3.5 v6, but has a battery pack that can run a house for 3 days and work as a generator remotely. That's something to drool about.
Battery prices just went up in the US, Ford Lightning price went up $8000 because of the battery. What you are talking about just isn't happening, materials for batteries are rare, demand increases price!
@@topsecret5 issue is running out of juice still happens with fossil fuel vehicles and is a major worry for most who cant afford to spend money on upgrading the tank
The fact thar the 4wd community consists of a massive amount of very old vehicles it definetly won't be a quick transition. At the moment there's quite a nice range of vehicles at every price range due to the time span 4wds cover
Lets have this conversation in 2 years when rhe greens, teals and dickhead albo offer assistance packages to the diesel and 4wd consumer market in the way of triple excise and pump price. You can keep the shitbox or diamond condition fourbie but without the fuel or funds to run it, they ain't gunna be much use.
One point that no one, except John Cadogan, ever talks about is that the range of an EV diminishes by 5% every year. So an initial range of 200km will be only 150km in five years.
@@theupscriber65 I would very much like to provide that. Admittedly, I am simply quoting a comment made by John Cadogan (AutoExpertTV) in one of his many videos on the subject of EVs in Australia. I will need to trawl through his library to find it. What I was commenting on here, is the fact that no one else mentions this fact; especially the EV car manufacturers. More anecdotally, it is well published that LiFePO4 batteries have a limited life and that each subsequent charge and discharge provides ever decreasing 'range'.
The thing I love with the rivian is it’s got everything for touring and camping built in like a cooler “frunk” and a built in Bluetooth speaker in the tray, if they can get the range sorted it will be a beast to tour
I'm off grid too and couldn't do it even with the generator running and I've got a 32 amp generator. Gather the ev utes have 200kwh batteries. That would be over 24hrs for a full charge. Be better off pushing biodiesel and ethanol
Hydrid 4X4s have to be permitted. If they dont then. Chris Bowen just killed your weekends and holidays. Back to backyard cricket electric BBQs and ipad fishing games for kids. Its a total disaster. Meanwhile you will be able to buy Izuzu and Toyota 4x4s in Thailand and China into the foreseeable future.
Think how many years and generations of cars it took to get to where we are now. Try comparing the first lot of petrol cars to what we use now - it’s the same thing. You have to give it time that’s why there’s a 8-15 years timeline to transition to let the tech catch up.
100% agree, the first 4wd to cross the simmo was the G60 how many servos did they have then? And thats the biggest thing with any new tech, plus that little old thing called, common sense ahahah, if you pull over at a servo and grab a feed and rest its usually about 30min, ev can fully charge under that time
As 4x4 drivers in Aus, we are hating the electric vehicle's. This is because we are slow to embrace change as a number one issue. However we do have reason why we don't. As a tuned 79 owner, with v8 XM falcon hot-rod owner, I'm hating the future of new cars without noise. BUT BUT BUT. Please from a teacher of our youth, we need to embrace the change. Some companies and engineers way smarter than us with our old mindset will fix the problem.. The ultimate problem is government not embracing the change. Would you turn down an 400nm at each wheel 4x4 if government put infrastructure in place to charge? With your public profile, please promote eco-friendly ideas.
Hey guy's, its a great conversation. I have this thought in my head that either may or may not get past the thought stage. It goes something like this. Instead of recharging your battery pack you just pull up and do a quick battery pack change. As I said its just a thought but I cant dismiss it yet. You drive into change bay, a robot removes the pack, your vehicle gets shunted to the upload bay and a fresh pack gets installed. the onboard computer would let you know where the packs are and what state of charge. Like i keep saying, I dunno, maybe, someday
@@andys31337 lol….. I have watched almost every single rivian video including overlanding/off-road…… still they didn’t even went where these people goes.
id like to hear more opinions on diesel electric, hydrogen electric and hybrid vehicles, because everyone knows that fully electric vehicles won't work for Australia but hybrid cars I have heard can get amazing range so this is most likely the most viable option in Australia at the moment.
For trucks and large vehicles, I see hybrid as the solution. The F150 powerboost is electric low speeds but kicks over to petrol when needed to extend the range. The big benefit I see is cost savings in already having a large lithium house battery that can be used rather than spending on extra batteries along with a built in factory DC charger and dc-ac converter. With my powerboost I was able to power all the essentials in my house when I had a recent 8 day power outage.
One of the issues few consider is the time paradigm most live to. Forget the technology, people don’t have the time - any solution that doesn’t accept that will struggle. Many other commenters are correct. Range is over stated and wait times will be longer. Plus, remote charging solutions need to accommodate for throughput using the charger for 30 - 60 minutes each, not the 5 - 10 minutes that fuel pumps support. So, a station with 10 pumps needs 60 to support the same throughput. Or, an hour will be a pipe dream. Maybe we need to slow down, but I’m not seeing any effort in this area. It is also odd to me that the rush to reduce emissions is mostly about buying new stuff. Eventually the old fleet will have to go but where are the strategies to reduce emissions without supporting the revenue of new industries? And their factories.
Your numbers are wrong. That's what happens when you skew everything because of you're biases. Many EVs including tesla already charge at 15 miles per minute. That's 250 miles of range in 15 minutes. Petty comparable to gas car fillip time. And it'll continue to improve.
@@theupscriber65 my biases? I think you’ll find that it’s a good finger in the air estimate. Charging takes longer. Remote services will not be best of breed. Not everyone will buy top flight gear. Stations will need more spaces. And, FYI, my vehicle does 600 miles on a tank. It doesn’t take 15 minutes to fill. Not even close. If I use a high flow diesel pump it takes about a minute.
TLDW - you'd struggle to cross the Simpson desert with a 4WD EV today. One day maybe. For the burbs EVs are fine, Australia is going to do another NBN with charging - we'll be blowing billions catching up in a decade.
Even for driving between capital cities and large urban areas EVs would be fine. No problem having chargers at servos, which are mostly less than 100 kms apart (to Perth or Darwin the exceptions)
I think the weight of battery will be concerning as John Cadogan said you would need a battery weighting 1.5 ton just to get a medium range fully loaded but would need a charging station to be able to have 50kw supply to charge in a couple of hours
Good to hear you guys talking about it. I do agree that the tech and infrastructure is not there but no-one is really suggesting it is a viable offroad option right now. Same w boats. Def agree there is a place right now for electric for many (most?) of the kms we drive tho and that's a good thing. For sure tech will continue to grow and develop! How exciting.
Yeah problem is though they’ve set all these goals and no purchase of new petrol vehicles after 2035, before we even have the tech. Second hand cars are going to be even more expensive 😂
A good example to see what EVs do on a very long trip was a program called the Long Way Up. They rode Harley Ev bikes but the support vehicles were Rivian Prototypes. What was good about the program. They did should the true side of charging . In the program you see that they had a sprinter diesel van with them with a solar panel and a generator on the back to help the EV vehicles.
And had to continuously hire a big diesel truck with a big diesel generator on the back to charge the little motorcycles And the rivians had to keep getting towed the rest of the way into town
@@darkcrawleruk yep. when people started to use internal combustion powered cars, there was no big push to FORCE people to stop riding horses and go out and buy a internal combustion car, it just happened naturally as the technology increased and the price dropped. EVs are great in some situations, but not for all. there are different types of vehicles for different situations. i own many old vehicles that serve different purposes. i would not take my 1984 truck on a long trip, but i also wouldn't try to tow a trailer with my wifes rav4.. I think ev would be cool to drive back and forth to work, but not for long trips, towing, remote travel/exploration.... the biggest problems that i see is if the entire world tries to make this switch all at once it will overwhelm the NONexistent infrastructure, is completely unaffordable to most people, and the power from the power grid for changing these cars will still have to be produced at coal burning, natural gas burning, nuclear power plants
@@darkcrawleruk i was very happy to switch from nitromethanol rc trucks to battery rc trucks when the battery technology was finally up to the task. its a great EV platform, but i still wouldn't drive it across country ;)
@@MrMrsregor yeah the RCs have coke long ways. I just got into speed runs and with a 6s pack and standard motors I am running 85mph. The nitro stuff these days is uncommon and lots of people don’t like it around them cause of the noise and smoke.
It's still relatively new technology. Similar issues came about when combustion engines took over steam. Stuff like the range is going to increase as time goes on. However, personally from a scientific background and an outdoor enthusiast I believe a hybrid is the ideal system, particularly if we can work out producing hydrogen more efficiently and cleaner. But I think it's really impressive how far electric vehicles have come in such a short time. And it's unfortunate we have had shit government with the libs that haven't thought ahead. For most of Australia in the city electric cars will be brilliant. But hybrid vehicles for the adventurous and rural individuals. Also with the environmental point of view. It's perfect if the batteries are recycled and the energy is coming from renewable sources such as solar, wind etc which is the government jobs
yea thats right.. Labor policy will be able to control the weather... lol the entire solar battery wind industry will leave a mess that will make exon valdez look like a mud fight. wake up.
@@gypsy_on_drugs1285 yeah of course. It's just trying to get to a point where we can be sustainable. And as technology progress and we learn more the more efficiently and sustainable we can be. Hopefully chemist can figure out a sustainable and cleanish way to produce hydrogen. Then we can keep that sexy combustion engine sound. Because the only by-product is H2O, so water vapour.
@@ragebait988 stupid comment. Labor policy is still poor, just better then the previous government. Unfortunately all of this gets political when it should be kept to experts
I'm also a scientist researching hydrogen production methods and I agree, in Australia for the things we in the 4wd community use our rigs for, hydrogen will be the zero emission answer unless batteries have really significant improvement. There are still major challenges with the implementation of both obviously. But as long as we get on with decarbonising city cars, us enthusiast's are a minor case that can be addressed in one to two decades.
Glad you guys did some looking into hydrogen. I think hydrogen fuel cells could be the solution for remote and long distance vehicles, unfortunately the efficiency of the fuel cells isn't great at the moment, but they are making improvements with new catalysts so it is certainly possible. Safe(er) storage solutions using metal hydrides are already available so we are part way there.
Yeah read that toyota is looking into hydrogen for the hilux/land cruiser sins electric aint realy a option for remote places wher the grid is nott buildt to cope whit the charging.
Great conversation Lads. You touched on this subject very briefly. The environmental impacts mining and producing the natural resources required for the batteries is substantial. I think we are all being mislead. Hyundai has just produced a hydrogen prototype vehicle for performance vehicles, and I believe Toyota is on the money.
Here in Humboldt County California our local college built a hydrogen fueling station that works back around 2005. Hydrogen powered vehicles have been heavily researched up here in Humboldt since the early 90's.
Has anyone brought up the fact of.... recovery if you get stuck somewhere, let alone a "standard" recovery(we have our winches connected to our main battery) --how much will this affect our power drain
Also a fun fact, a decent amount of electric vehicles will NOT roll without having power. So a dead vehicle is an anchor and good luck recovering that sucker.
Who cares. Couple of minutes of winching will be no big deal on a battery pack. Whats exiciting is the potential of EV winches. With 400+ volts on tap, you can imagine the potential winch speeds.
For any EV to leave the tarmac, it needs to be equipped with its own fire suppression system for the batteries. One drop of water gets into a lithium battery and Kaboom. There was a Tesla that caught fire in the US and the fire services were left helpless to put the fire out. Now imagine that in the High Country or along he Old Tele Track. A fire that's source cannot be extinguished.
From the UK here a point over here is we are running at capacity in terms of electric, we start introducing more things to take power the power grid can’t keep up and there could be black outs. As we buy a lot of power from Russia and places. It’s not sustainable at the moment. And it produces less pollution to run an old vehicle than what it takes to make a new one. And like you said which was an excellent point, they aren’t really made for second hand market. So it really isn’t better for the environment. Not sure how true it is they was asking people in Cali to not charge them as they was at capacity themselves a couple months back.
The mass of them is also concerning mainly in crashes that is alot of mass to be going through the door of a small hatchback. This applies to electric trucks, and old wooden bridges.
Another few factors: The batteries are typically placed on the bottom of the vehicle where they can be pierced or damaged by rocks that you would encounter out in the trails. If this happens, they can catch fire. Another factor is the arcing possibility. These vehicles are not validated to the typical use case for Australia where the roads are rougher and there are more river crossings. What they don't tell you is that the electrical connectors are very suspect to damage in heavy duty applications. Once they are damaged, the high voltage electrical architectures are much more likely to arc and cause another thermal event. Another point, Hydrogen can be used in fuel cells, but it can also be used in internal combustion engines. Pretty much all the auto suppliers are working on that right now.
As professional gardener iv been enjoying the use of battery powered tools. But definitely the more resistance you have the more battery you eat up. Example cutting bigger branches chainsaw or cutting longer grass with mower. So definitely the load on Electric motor and battery the runtime depletes significantly
I would say hydrogen is absolutely the most promising option, it's a little more complex than petrol in terms of filling them up but it takes a similar amount of time. The only emission is water and they can in theory be fitted with long range tanks
They have to be at extremely high levels of pressure for hydrogen to be effective, it takes a heap of power to generate it, and has nowhere near the energy efficiency of petrol or diesel. So tanks will have to be way bigger think boot size. What happens when that tank get old and ruptures or in an accident. Occupants shredded into red mist. Again might be an answer for sole occupant trucks that need to be on the road as much as possible.
People were extremely sceptical about cars carrying flammable petrol in the beginning as well, and BEVs can produce chain reaction fires through the battery pack that are near impossible to put out. If the tanks are designed correctly and we can streamline the supply chain, hydrogen looks very promising
If you are allowed to charge your batteries: In the state of California - they have a charging ban due to a lack of electricity in the state 🤣- Citizens were not allowed to charge their electric cars during the recent 3-day holiday weekend.
Great topic and very timely.. There is a place for EV's. Having them as your daily drive for commuting and shorter trips, less than say 400-450 km round trip, unless you charge over night at your destination would be perfect, if the car style vehicle fits your needs from a space perspective. In US and Europe there is an ok infrastructure so you could do longer trips, but again, you have to plan for it. As an adventure (touring) vehicle I doubt seeing them being a valid option for many years/decades. Going out in the bush you just wont have a charger there to charge up up during you camp. Many people get EV's to "go green" but forget how their electricity they charge it with is produced. Also remember the batteries are not that great from a "green" perspective to produce.
A dual cab ute that was electric would be a no brainer for the city or town tradie coupled with a good solar / battery setup at home and could still be used for the weekend warrior off-road stuff.
@@Spiraldeath they are about 50 years away from makeing anything viable for Australia. And have you ever seen lithium touch water...and they think Hydrogen is the volatile.... lithium is just as bad. Batteries and solar panels are an environmental disaster waiting to happen.
Now that Graham is doing his own thing being a grey nomad in WA, is he still a regular crew of 4WD 24-7? Or will he just join in on some trips from time to time?
Graham hasn't gone anywhere mate! He will be on plenty of shows with the boys - plus showing you a heap of remote Australia at the same time. Besides who is going to keep Shauno warm at night? 😆
I think we should probably wait see a full adoption of small electric hatchbacks in the city before we start looking at electric offroad utes, one of my biggest concerns is the extra weight (ev utes are VERY heavy even unloaded) which will do alot of damage to offroad tracks
ok you forget about the fact that the battery is the lowest point of the car, it makes is good and bad for 4wd driving, but also makes it so you need extra underbody protection, if you hit a rock, it is Mutch worst to damage the battery then to break a diff. in other things the battery needs cooling in au, so that will decrease the range, and for last, an obvious one but still, many accessories and adapters for extra stuff will need a change most likely.
in England With the increase of energy it now cost more to charge your E.V then to fill your car with petrol and that is with very high petrol costs in the U.K
Long distance off road travel in an EV is possible, you'll need to bring your own Generator or lots of solar panels. Also don't plan on it being quick, but hey, just make sure that you're charging near a fishing hole, or you got a hammock and some cold ones on hand.
A silent motorbike is asking for more trouble.. the amount of times I hear a bike before seeing it in traffic is huge, noise is your friend on a bike and I don't ride
A few motorcycle manufacturers are working on a common standard for swappable batteries. The Energica Experia m/c is around 200km+ range depending on use mode, so is useable around the more developed parts of Europe. Noise generators can be added to electric vehicles.
You didn't bring up Reliability and Part Availability. While it's not a 4WD vehicle, Tesla parts take MONTHS to get and I can't imagine parts for the trucks would be any different.
somethings that never get mentioned is how well does the power hold when yr spinning hard in bog holes and bogging .basically all the 4wd movement such as hill climbs rock climbing.does that battery time ware out quicker under all the harsh strains of 4x4 driving
I see a lot of downfalls to the electric vehicles especially thespecially to fourwheel drives if you were to punch a hole in the battery out in the woods and it was to get wet lithium explodes when it gets wet another another thing is that that they say there's 0 emissions but it takes 4 thousand times as much emissions to build one as it does to just keep regular cars or trucks on the road. Just saying......
12:00 here in the US the battery is about 30% the used value of the Leaf. Not horrible, but our used prices are insane here. Note the parallel of the battery is the powertrain. It's cheaper than doing and engine AND transmission on an ICE.
I don’t know if you guys thought wisely about this episode.. Technology with batteries and charging stations are excelling, Tesla are at the absolute forefront, I am VERY interested in the cyber truck. Could be game changer!
There’s a lot of places in development for hydrogen at the moment, I worked at one place last week upgrading their security. Seems like it’ll be big soon
It won't happen. The whole EV "green energy" is a massive hoax. The impacts on the environment that mining, smelting and forming copper wires and winding motors for EV and also the lithium that needs to be mined for batteries not to mention the instability of battery chemistry far outweighs drilling and refining crude oil. If the whole purpose is to reduce the amount of combustion engine vehicles on the road that would have a direct impact on refining of crude oil for fuels and other petrochemical such as the olefins which are extracted from poly gasoline and converted to Nonene which is the main component for plastics production. Without nonene how does the EV market plan to finish off coating all the electricl cables, making the dash, door trims, stereo units, door handles, door cards, nylon seat belts ect ect to finish their EV ready for Market? Further to this the Australian Military has just renewed their entire catalouged fleet with brand new defence vehicles and equipment which all run off DIESEL so the question that begs to be asked is, is it okay for the Australian Government to have an agressive target to be green by 2030 but do exactly the opposite or as consumers are we all being led up the garden path under the guise of "do your part for the planet". The whole crude oil damaging the planet theme is also itself another hoax as we are led to believe that crude oil came from the decomposition of dinosaurs, hence the term dinosaur juice but in fact dinosaur bones contain very little if any carbon at all. Fun fact, trees contain approx 50% of their volume in carbon. Another fun fact is Hydrogen is one of the main compounds of water and all organinc things (such as trees), so petrol, diesel and all other products derived from crude oil is a make up of hydrocarbon, Hydrogen and carbon molecules and many other elements suspended in it meaning that pretrol or "Dinosaur Juice" did not come from decomposing dinosaurs. It is a lifecycle where you plant a tree and it will provide cleaning properties by scavenging C02 out of the air and storing it. Once the tree dies it falls over and decomposes and will eventually form back into crude oil over hundreds or millions of years and be sucked back out of the ground later and re-refined as a hydrocarbon and burnt back through another combustion engine and captured by a different tree and the organic life cycle continues. The solution to the problem is simple. Stop cutting trees down and plant more of them and make combustion engines more economical. Hydrocarbons as a fuel source are extremely stable in comparison the the "Greener Alternatives" such as lithium and hydrogen
Incorrect about where crude oil comes from. You've watched too many crap yt vids. There was once a period in earth's development with large trees, but no organisms that could break them down yet. This is more than 99% of all reserves in the world. Stop spouting bs lol
Yeah, with current tech - we are not there. Some of the batteries on the horizon tho? I am excited about those, both for charge speed and power density :)
@@arronjohnston742 A simple search will tell you that batteries have come down in price by about 80% in 30 years and have improved in storage 85% in 10 years, if you think there's no more breakthroughs coming you have your head in the sand....
@@MickH60 🤣🤣🤣 they're FAR from ready for what the delusional morons are pushing and not even close to anything "green"....... i never said there's no more breakthroughs coming, just nothing that'll be close to ready any time soon.....
As far as Australia goes I do not know about the infrastructure but here in the USA they have the jeep 4xe and FCA is actually putting charging stations at offroad areas for people to use. It charges quick enough to get you outta the trails. That being said it is all about the infrastructure
No one mentions the Battery Degradation from regular charging, you check the range on your used 18k Nissan Leaf you will be lucky if you can get to the shops and back as the batteries become so weak they can only do 30/40km. Also in order to charge them you have to have a drive way that is a huge luxury these days, no flats or terraced houses with only on street parking. This push is ALL About linking your travel to your social credit score so your ability to travel can be turned off at the flip of an online switch !!
I would just say I’m all for electric vehicles if the technology can get there but unless I can get 1500kms of range loaded and there is a ton of stations even in remote areas it’s not for me
@@almostthere2024 I live in Nevada, it's the same issue concerning off roading. One of my favorite areas to explore is around Area 51. It is about 80 miles just to the turnoff for the offroad bit. To spend a week in the bush I need a range of about 500 miles minimum. If I need more I can always carry a few extra jerry cans.
Heard about synthetic fuels recently. Would like to know more. In theory they can make synthetic diesel, petrol, kero and others using renewable energy to split hydrogen from oxygen in water and mixing hydrogen with carbon pulled from the air and industrial plants etc. reckon that would be the go for a carbon neutral solution. We can keep the combustion vehicles we have that are reliable and built to last rather than exploit more resources to manufacture this throw away expensive rubbish they make these days.
I like this comment Jarred. Creating a synthetic fuel for all vehicles would make so much more sense, then we can keep utilizing the vehicles we already have. Imagine the amount of greenhouse gases that have already been produced in the manufacture of all the vehicles on the road today! The internal combustion engine isn't dead yet mate!
It's the Fischer-Tropsch reaction. But it requires carbon monoxide and hydrogen. Hydrogen could come from electrolysis from wind turbines or solar panels but the carbon monoxide needs to come from fossil fuels still.
@@mark2073 I like the idea so is old rev heads can drive our old classics around. But I don’t think it’s the answer for outback travel. It’ll be harder to come by than electricity by far.
I'm still convinced that synthetic fuels are the answer, requires zero changes to the distribution network (as it mixes with existing fuels), fixes the emissions of existing vehicles, not just expensive new ones. All it requires is production to be scaled up to make it more affordable.
I looked at getting an electric outboard. It had a service internal of 10 years. No crappy fuel system, no horrible fuel system. looking forward to good batteries.
Mate they cant get the infrastructure sorted in the uk, 1/7 the size of WA... And a Jocko says, over 90% of electricity being made by coal. Then the Lithium used for the batteries. Well, they use diesel plant to mine it, use diesel to transport it, use diesel to ship it to factories running off over 90% coal powered powerstations to make it into a battery. Then the use diesel to transport the batteries to where the cars are produced. Volvo did their own study on the xc40, for the d4 model to have the same carbon footprint of the all electric xc40, the d4 has to 140k miles.... And the you comment on replacement batteries for a Tesla... you cant, or motors, they wont sell you replacements! They sell you a new car! Tesla batteries, known failure 5 to 10 yrs.... The solution is not electricity! Also, side note... electric cars, no road tax etc etc, house hold electric bills going up... strange...
Hardly more environmentally friendly either as mining the lithium for the batteries makes HUGE amount of pollution and refining it to be usable takes a lot of power. When mining machines become electric, then i'd be more incline to use them as theyd be tested in harsh conditions.
I’m from the uk and I’ve been waiting for this episode for ages and I’m glad that the boys the legend’s them selves are agreeing electric 4wds isn’t going to work there’s so many negative things about them and and you will never beet a diesel 4wd I will run diesel 4wd until the day I Die.
I saw a doco recently about how the main feeders in this country are not even big enough to handle the load coming from solar farms with the owners saying they would not invest in building more in Australia as they cant even export all the power they make now because the feeders cant handle the load. All subdivision power feeders and transformer systems are sized for the current load, if you wanted to put a 15 amp power point in every house to charge there EV in the subdivision you would have to do a massive upgrade to the feed in lines and transformers for every subdivision in the country. If ya ever need a drone pilot (licenced, and insured), let me know. Would love to join you all and get some amazing shots...
I would definitely like to see an electric vehicle go through the Frenchman's track with all that water And trying to winch itself out without blowing any fuses Or Overloading the batteries
I think the Rivian RT1 has a fording depth of about 900mm vs about 700 on the 79 for example. And I don't think you'd be overloading those batteries with a winch - it's same batteries that make those cars accelerate pretty impressively. But you still have a point, I don't see electric cars in hard offroad use either.
Electric 4wd’S will be an amazing way to explore all the new mines they open up to mine all the lithium. Creating a greener world and opening up off-road playgrounds at the same time!! 2 birds with one stone aye lads
7:02 another journalist site on UA-cam, TFL truck, did a towing test on the F150 lightning in the mountains of Colorado and couldn’t even get to the next town loaded. Their range dropped below 100 miles from full charge
Here in the USA, I own both a Tesla, and a jeep, apropriate technology for the end use of each. Ford owns Rivian, so you are stuck. Jeep and Ram both have 4wd Hybrids that seem to perform, but I would worry about the complications caused by having 2 powertrains playing nice toegether. The plus side is hybrids (and Rivians) can run all the fridges, induction cookers etc.
This’ll be an interesting episode to watch back in 20 years
True. It will probably demonstrate the progress we've made in that time and likely everyone will be driving EVs. But the infrastructure & tech just aren't there yet.
@@ConfusedGeriatric Hindsight is 20/20 but battery power is not magic.
We also dont have the power management for everyone to be driving electric cars. In California they are already running into a problem where people can charge every other day. Ask me how I know... So my car that gets 60miles per charge and I have to drive 20miles to work I can't drive hardly anywhere else. The power grid is not built for it. It's coming back and slapping us in the face
Lol we couldn't even get the NBN internet done right :D
@@elliotkane4443 Nor are EV's reliable or cheap! You could not get around Australia in an EV.
Just watched the episode and can see what you’re saying, for what you guys do with your 4wd’s electric is a long way off, but not every ute sold does the Tele track, how many utes and SUV’s never leave the pavement, these are the real targets, the Chelsea tractors.
Given the speed that this industry is moving, ten years is going to be like 100 years of advancement in gas term
Nah, 10yrs is going to be 10yrs.
This is a really interesting ep. Another factor to consider is not just waiting to charge a large battery EV, it's the wait time to ACCESS a charger - if there's a charging station on a main route in the lead up to holidays, there will be a mad queue. So the one hour charge time could work out to two hours or more. So unless there's a revolution in battery & charging infrastructure, this is years away. Oil exists on the Australian continent - we should utilise the resources we have, and manage the transition once the EV technology & infrastructure has matured effectively. Thanks for raising this issue, it's important. ✌️
Australia should be developing renewables as a matter of national security
Unfortunately the planet doesn't have that kind of time.
@@Ktmfan450 Australia should be using fossil fuels until there is another technology that will work in our situation
@@coopermathews9288 based on what facts bud?
the greta fear tactics?
@@coopermathews9288 the planet should have been destroyed about 30 times over according to climate scientist over the years. Anyone giving any kind of timeline on climate stuff just doesn't understand how things really work.
You are ignorant.
Great edition guys. Just noted that none of those US vehicles had a bullbar, spotties etc and all the additional weight for when we put our cars together. The impact on range would be quite significant. Then they don't consider that LiIon batteries aren't recyclable and a fire can't be put out. Hydrogen, more explosive than LPG.
Spot on boys. I'd say I am green by keeping the old LN106 running and not replacing it. A vehicle that you keep running for hundreds of thousands of K's is better than using all the raw materials needed for a new rig
Totally Agree💚
Yeah true, but honestly, I care about saving fuel and I don't care at all for 'saving the environment'.
It needs no help from me and they're opening a new coal-fired plant daily in China so I'm just going to disappoint myself if I try to get into that.
take care of it and itll tick over a mil
The only thing electric should be the beer fridge.
And the battery
My guy knows what right 👍😂
@@WillLowther diesel 4x4 can still stuff up in water, they just way better.
@@FartOnMePlz Yea I know, just like a few flames outa my petrol and a bitta soot outa my diesel. 🤙
@@WillLowther diesel better for hard work and big machines, petrol better for little cars and fast cars.
When debating the feasibility of EV 4x4's, remember a lot of the same people who want outlaw petroleum powered vehicles do NOT care if you can no longer travel across country off the beaten path. They would be delighted if your environment "damaging" vehicles were parked indefinitely so feasibility is of little concern to them.
exactly
That’s not true at all.
Yeah its unfortunate, we will be in all out war with our own government in the not to distant future. Stick together and don't forget about our farmers.... they are in the shit already.
They don't care if you can breathe actually they prefer that you don't
I'm an American that just moved to Australia up in the pilbra. I've been looking at buying a 2022 F-350 which in the platinum package in the states would be around 85k-100k depending on options. Here in Australia that same truck I'm looking at between 200k and 270k for the same truck. So you guys are right about after all the tax and fees will make them so hard to afford!
But here in Australia with the distances that need to be covered here they are completely impractical. I watched a video where Bobcat the skid steer equipment company has made an all electric skid steer if you use it at 100% of the available power you get 4hrs of continuous usage then it would have to be charged for 10hrs for a full charge. I don't understand how people think these will be a good thing for any country!
Love the show guys keep up there great work watch all of your videos!
Don't worry any serious truck users don't take these electric trucks seriously. These trucks are perfect mall runs.
@@blakester122 shopping center m8
@@mechanicalman4531 can't help. I'm in the US. We have malls. The shopping center is something completely different. Lol
@@blakester122 yeah I know thank God but the problem is that they are going to try and force us to buy them at some point!
@@richchrestenson yeah here in the US California is trying to force all new cars have to be electric by 2025 I think. The rediculous part is that they had rolling black outs because the grid could support all of the AC units during a heat wave. Haha also known as the desert. Lol
As a follower and owner of a Land Cruiser build shop I am glad to hear you guys finally discuss this topic.
A build series of fitting out the workshop would be pretty awesome!
I second that
What happens wen you break down whilst being remote how much are parts and do you need to be an auto sparky to fix something as simple as your CV
@@joshuabawdon9519 why would you need to be a sparky to fix a CV? The CVs are the same as any other car. Everything that normally breaks on a petrol or diesel doesn't exist on electric so they're much more reliable. If it's computers that you're scared of then they have less of those than a modern petrol or diesel anyway
I live in Las Vegas Nevada. There is massive desert I off road my Jeep Gladiator on. Charging in Death Valley is not possible. It's scorching hot and remote. Also the mountians to the north are thick woods and remote as well. I will definitely stick with my petrol vehicle!!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Charging everywhere is possible with electrics, just carry a couple of solar panels like they commonly do in Australia. If you run out of fuel out there then you're stuffed....
@@MickH60 Just whip out the kings solar blanket hey?
@@MickH60 yea that would take a week or 2 unless you carry a lot solar panels on with you.
225km doesn't even get me out to my family farm let alone away for a holiday 😒
It's early years, don't write it off yet.
😂😂😂😂 Right on 😂
@@Albot940 its really not early years tho. Electric vehicles were made before combustion
@@Albot940 30 years or more yet so what's the rush
@@Jacobtheunwise haha I know, but they haven't had the last 100 years of r&d behind them
Professor Jocko talking shop / EV's is my favorite Jocko @12:29
I'm in the US, and even here, there are many that feel the same. Electric is nice on paper, but in the real world, it isn't feasible outside of city use.
I reckon if you are a builder working in the suburbs it could be pretty useful because you can run your tools from it and it's big enough to cart things around.
@@SuperMegaWoofer3000 Except of course you can't because the battery is not big enough to run serious tools all day, the machine is no good for towing.
And a small-time builder is likely to be off-grid, even in the suburbs.
Besides For that price you could buy an f250/350 or a smaller heavy rigid truck and then you might have a useful tool.
Something that has not been called out is the number of charging outlets in remote locations. Even if charging is available in remote locations, not much good if 5 EVs rockup and there are only 2 outlets.
If they are going to put the effort in to install charging outlets in remote places then I'm sure whoever does it will be smart enough to put the right amount of chargers suited for that location but to be fair it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't
Oh no what if more than 10 cars pull up to a petrol station at the same time? You line up mate its pretty simple. Imagine the first person to explain how fuel is going to work, mining it and setting up a distribution network across the country. You would say that is crazy and impossible but we figured it out didn't we
@@tangybuttfrogfpv8772 that's unrealistic given it takes 2.5 to 3 mins for 10 gallons of flow per minute to fuel up Compared to 1000% more wait time for EVs with fast chargers (30 mins to charge to 85-90% do the math on the wait time. Let's not ignore the fact that even electric do happen to have a carbon footprint, and situations where they do underperform horribly like towing and heavy load uphill, for a city car they make absolute sense, but for off roading we still need to wait for battery tech to improve to match somewhat energy density in volume to that of fuel.
@@topsecret5 they will figure it out, look at rc cars. Electric is cheaper, faster, more reliable and better in every way. I like solutions not excuses. Hundreds of years ago you would be the one refusing to switch from horse to car. Horses are cheaper, more reliable, longer range than cars at the time and you can feed your horse anywhere but you couldn't get fuel from anywhere at the time
@@tangybuttfrogfpv8772 we are in the subject of 4x4's and hey if you wanna go electric more power to you, my thing is forcing those of us who want to still use diesel or gas powered vehicles due to their simplicity, can be used in remote locations or simply nothing exist that matches the capability (ie my brothers 7.3 excursion can carry 9 people while towing 4klbs and gets 23mpg with a range of 800 miles with 38" tires and can go off roading also) look up TFL trucks and their recent test with the Ford lighting and how it gave an 85 mile range towing a 6.5k lbs trailer at the gauntlet in CO.
I'm fine with owning an electric daily driver, but for long range travel, towing or offroading/overlanding they don't hold a real chance unless you tow a trailer made out of batteries or a generator, also inverters tend to fail when Immersed so there is that too.
It's a missed opportunity to have a battery standard, so instead of waiting to charge, you swap a battery, just like we all do now with 9kg gas cylinders. If Governments were visionary they would think this through - drive in, battery drops out from below and a replacement clips into place. I don't wait for my cordless drill to recharge, i use another battery.
renalt do this,
the telsla trucks in development tmk will employ the same system,
the limiting factor is labor/stealership costs
you can bet it won't be free or cheap
But I like the 4.5kg gas cylinders.
@@alt7488 if you need to go to the dealership to get a fresh battery that kind of kills the point. You don't have to go to the dealership to fill a tank of gas.
The point is trying to speed up and increase efficiency of "re-fueling" stops by just swapping batteries instead of charging the one in your vehicle.
@@mikewhitman745 dude. Batter standards would make changing them out at fueling stations possible
@@mikewhitman745 the point was a car maker already does this.....
Would have liked to hear you discuss more of the benefits of the technology compared to fossil powered 4wd as well.
On paper the amount of torque/instant torque, motors on all wheels as opposed to needing diff locks + better clearance with no diff pumpkin. No need for air/snorkel to run. Also less moving parts in theory means less maintenance outside the battery replacement discussed. No tail shaft could mean easy to have a flat area/bed in a cabin?
I'm sure there's a bunch more people can think of. The charging/range tech might not be there but would be good to explore some of the benefits we can look forward to down the track.
Hear, hear. This pair are already convinced that EVs won't work, after all there are no petrol stations on the Canning or across the Simpson so why would anyone put chargers there. In China, vehicles are already on sale with swappable battery packs - a change takes under 5 min. For towing, there are already experiments with caravans/trailers with their own battery packs and motors so that towing does not cut the vehicles range by a great amount. Batteries already last the life of the vehicle and I have heard of at least one person who has bought an early Nissan Leaf cheap because it had a bad battery - got himself a cheap vehicle as he only had to change one small pack of cells to bring the battery back to full power. This all sounds as if it was recorded 10 yrs ago.
I appreciate you guys being realistic about the ev today. They may get there someday but as far as now, not a chance. Thanks.
Problem is our government is worthless at thinking long term so it’ll probably never happen, regardless of how essential it is.
They won't work here in the US either. The range is just not good enough. We have no charging infrastructure in place. How do I go on a long road trip up to the mountains when there is nowhere to charge up there? Texas is also a massive place, we cover huge distance as well. I can fill up my Jeep in 2 minutes and continue on my way. Why would I want to sit around waiting an hour for a charge? Plus, a battery is just storage. The energy is created mostly from coal, so why can't I just keep my internal combustion engine? Also, you can't buy a Lightning or a Hummer for msrp, they have massive markup.
Something interesting you missed would be mud getting in the components and what track side repairs can you do on a electric vehicle
It wasnt missed, its less of an issue with EVs than conventional vehicles, as they are fully sealed.
@@MRMOPARMAN0426 no electronics are fully sealed, there are always intrusion points and electronic problems are real fun to diagnose too lmao
Imagine going through a deap water crossing in a EV all electrics under water
or a bit of a bash...
@@ehholden2376 clearly never worked on an EV then.
I would like to see you touch on the fact that a huge percentage of regional transport is predominantly Road Trains.....
I can't wait to see how heavy a battery would be for one of those suckers!
I reckon hydrogen is the way to go there, still an electric engine (so some freaking sweet torque) but the battery is hydrogen
There's an American UA-cam channel called TFL that got the hybrid Wrangler and took it off road. It had an all-electric range of 32 miles on the road but when driven off road in all-electric mode only managed 3 miles before the engine cut in due to an almost flat battery.
They also took an f150 lightning to Alaska, they struggled to charge it.
Shauno and Jock
Electric vehicles are becoming more talked about.
Yes, we ask questions about milage, battery replacement and how robust these 4WD vehicles can be.
Shauno, you mentioned about going green for the environment. I think what most people are forgetting is the magnitude in mining resources to build batteries for Electric vehicles. Have the greens realised such impact.
Andrew is from the US and he did a hell of a solo recovery on that Lexus GX460. Love the channel and love watching you guys!!
There’s a bloke in vic who is converting old 4bies into 4wd evs and he’s getting ranges of 700km+ per charge. We also are constantly getting better and better technology that is improving our batteries, their charge, the power the motors can produce under load, a whole range of other factors such as increasing production of evs bringing price down of both vehicles and parts. You also have to remember the same issues of a place to ‘refill’ (charging station/servo) and running out of juice apply to both vehicles
Plus no more worrying about building out 12v. A properly built EV has a battery system most off roaders would drool over if they were able to use it. First EV builder to capitalise and build in a power point for a fridge, coffee machine and an induction cooker will win.
@@BenGovett I wouldn't drool, unless it was a hybrid, range anxiety in the bush is truely a thing specially running those 3 things you mentioned lol. Ford has a nice middle of the road compromise F150 that can run Ev or a 3.5 v6, but has a battery pack that can run a house for 3 days and work as a generator remotely. That's something to drool about.
Battery prices just went up in the US, Ford Lightning price went up $8000 because of the battery. What you are talking about just isn't happening, materials for batteries are rare, demand increases price!
@@topsecret5 issue is running out of juice still happens with fossil fuel vehicles and is a major worry for most who cant afford to spend money on upgrading the tank
hey I'm doing a project on EV and science in the media. do you have any more info about this bloke in vic and his ev 4wd?
The fact thar the 4wd community consists of a massive amount of very old vehicles it definetly won't be a quick transition. At the moment there's quite a nice range of vehicles at every price range due to the time span 4wds cover
Lets have this conversation in 2 years when rhe greens, teals and dickhead albo offer assistance packages to the diesel and 4wd consumer market in the way of triple excise and pump price. You can keep the shitbox or diamond condition fourbie but without the fuel or funds to run it, they ain't gunna be much use.
Nothing like having an honest conversation about EV's while sporting Castrol stickers everywhere - just thought I would point that out.
One point that no one, except John Cadogan, ever talks about is that the range of an EV diminishes by 5% every year. So an initial range of 200km will be only 150km in five years.
Post a link to that study.
@@theupscriber65 I would very much like to provide that. Admittedly, I am simply quoting a comment made by John Cadogan (AutoExpertTV) in one of his many videos on the subject of EVs in Australia. I will need to trawl through his library to find it. What I was commenting on here, is the fact that no one else mentions this fact; especially the EV car manufacturers. More anecdotally, it is well published that LiFePO4 batteries have a limited life and that each subsequent charge and discharge provides ever decreasing 'range'.
The thing I love with the rivian is it’s got everything for touring and camping built in like a cooler “frunk” and a built in Bluetooth speaker in the tray, if they can get the range sorted it will be a beast to tour
The range is sorted. More that 600kms
I'm off grid but I wouldn't be able to charge an electric car overnight without the diesel generator running
I'm off grid too and couldn't do it even with the generator running and I've got a 32 amp generator. Gather the ev utes have 200kwh batteries. That would be over 24hrs for a full charge. Be better off pushing biodiesel and ethanol
Same here also.
Not happening anytime soon, especially for towing.
Hydrid 4X4s have to be permitted. If they dont then. Chris Bowen just killed your weekends and holidays. Back to backyard cricket electric BBQs and ipad fishing games for kids. Its a total disaster. Meanwhile you will be able to buy Izuzu and Toyota 4x4s in Thailand and China into the foreseeable future.
Australia? What is Australia? You guys speak some funny English…. No idea
@@Christoph1888 They should keep persisting with hydrogen as well. Toyota has a working concept.
EV's will never have what we all love to hear - the sound of a V8 4WD at full noise.
Dodge will be equipping it's new line of EV's with engine sound recordings 🤣😂
@@jeremysellers7294 will it come with a soot generator as well?! EV's have no place in the 4WD world.
Or the cost of diesel in 10 years :D
@@jimmyggreg8999 uptake of EV's will cause diesel prices to go down
@@BOK_Q400 doubt it
Think how many years and generations of cars it took to get to where we are now. Try comparing the first lot of petrol cars to what we use now - it’s the same thing. You have to give it time that’s why there’s a 8-15 years timeline to transition to let the tech catch up.
100% agree, the first 4wd to cross the simmo was the G60 how many servos did they have then? And thats the biggest thing with any new tech, plus that little old thing called, common sense ahahah, if you pull over at a servo and grab a feed and rest its usually about 30min, ev can fully charge under that time
there shouldn't be subsidies for tech that isn't ready. It's incredibly wasteful of raw resources to mass produce primitive, expendable tech.
Bullshit . thius is a completely different ball game. GRAPHENE is the answer IF they can harness it
@@HAHA.GoodMeme how is a 100% recycelable product wastefull?
Except as 4wd have got newer recently in my opinion have been getting worse I'd prefer an older 4wd than a new one let alone an electric one
As 4x4 drivers in Aus, we are hating the electric vehicle's. This is because we are slow to embrace change as a number one issue. However we do have reason why we don't. As a tuned 79 owner, with v8 XM falcon hot-rod owner, I'm hating the future of new cars without noise. BUT BUT BUT. Please from a teacher of our youth, we need to embrace the change. Some companies and engineers way smarter than us with our old mindset will fix the problem.. The ultimate problem is government not embracing the change. Would you turn down an 400nm at each wheel 4x4 if government put infrastructure in place to charge? With your public profile, please promote eco-friendly ideas.
Another issue which you touched on briefly was recycling. Lithium cannot be recycled. Once depleted it is done.
False statement. Battery recycling is turning into a booming industry
I like the idea that Mitsubishi is looking to do with the next triton, 2.4 petrol paired with a hybrid motor
Hopefully they fix the short wheelbase/long rear overhang issue
Hey guy's, its a great conversation. I have this thought in my head that either may or may not get past the thought stage. It goes something like this. Instead of recharging your battery pack you just pull up and do a quick battery pack change. As I said its just a thought but I cant dismiss it yet. You drive into change bay, a robot removes the pack, your vehicle gets shunted to the upload bay and a fresh pack gets installed.
the onboard computer would let you know where the packs are and what state of charge. Like i keep saying, I dunno, maybe, someday
Batteries are not the answer. POWER CELLS are.. they last for 5--10 years then need to be changed. You can plan on a power cell replacment.
You mean like NIO does at their battery swap stations?
@@theupscriber65 Hey, I just checked the NIO out, yes something like that. I didn't realise it was a thing
I Think you also need to consider the heat in parts of Australia that would probably affect the battery life fairly heavily
The batteries are cooled in modern EVs
@@andys31337 lol…… 4wdriving is super hard on vehicles and if the battery ever get punctured or damaged by rocks or roots its going to be a disaster!!
@@carholic-sz3qv check out Rivian's underbody protection
@@andys31337 lol….. I have watched almost every single rivian video including overlanding/off-road…… still they didn’t even went where these people goes.
Heat, cold and load saps the life from any battery.
id like to hear more opinions on diesel electric, hydrogen electric and hybrid vehicles, because everyone knows that fully electric vehicles won't work for Australia but hybrid cars I have heard can get amazing range so this is most likely the most viable option in Australia at the moment.
For trucks and large vehicles, I see hybrid as the solution. The F150 powerboost is electric low speeds but kicks over to petrol when needed to extend the range. The big benefit I see is cost savings in already having a large lithium house battery that can be used rather than spending on extra batteries along with a built in factory DC charger and dc-ac converter. With my powerboost I was able to power all the essentials in my house when I had a recent 8 day power outage.
One of the issues few consider is the time paradigm most live to.
Forget the technology, people don’t have the time - any solution that doesn’t accept that will struggle.
Many other commenters are correct. Range is over stated and wait times will be longer. Plus, remote charging solutions need to accommodate for throughput using the charger for 30 - 60 minutes each, not the 5 - 10 minutes that fuel pumps support. So, a station with 10 pumps needs 60 to support the same throughput. Or, an hour will be a pipe dream.
Maybe we need to slow down, but I’m not seeing any effort in this area.
It is also odd to me that the rush to reduce emissions is mostly about buying new stuff. Eventually the old fleet will have to go but where are the strategies to reduce emissions without supporting the revenue of new industries?
And their factories.
Your numbers are wrong. That's what happens when you skew everything because of you're biases.
Many EVs including tesla already charge at 15 miles per minute. That's 250 miles of range in 15 minutes. Petty comparable to gas car fillip time. And it'll continue to improve.
@@theupscriber65 my biases?
I think you’ll find that it’s a good finger in the air estimate. Charging takes longer. Remote services will not be best of breed. Not everyone will buy top flight gear.
Stations will need more spaces.
And, FYI, my vehicle does 600 miles on a tank. It doesn’t take 15 minutes to fill.
Not even close. If I use a high flow diesel pump it takes about a minute.
TLDW - you'd struggle to cross the Simpson desert with a 4WD EV today. One day maybe.
For the burbs EVs are fine, Australia is going to do another NBN with charging - we'll be blowing billions catching up in a decade.
Even for driving between capital cities and large urban areas EVs would be fine. No problem having chargers at servos, which are mostly less than 100 kms apart (to Perth or Darwin the exceptions)
Did you know that two EVs have crossed the Simpson already, right? Converted Suzuki Jimmys, powered by solar.
@@Wdeane1957 Fair few chargers on the way between perth to Darwin if you follow the coast
I think the weight of battery will be concerning as John Cadogan said you would need a battery weighting 1.5 ton just to get a medium range fully loaded but would need a charging station to be able to have 50kw supply to charge in a couple of hours
Good to hear you guys talking about it. I do agree that the tech and infrastructure is not there but no-one is really suggesting it is a viable offroad option right now. Same w boats. Def agree there is a place right now for electric for many (most?) of the kms we drive tho and that's a good thing. For sure tech will continue to grow and develop! How exciting.
Yeah problem is though they’ve set all these goals and no purchase of new petrol vehicles after 2035, before we even have the tech. Second hand cars are going to be even more expensive 😂
A good example to see what EVs do on a very long trip was a program called the Long Way Up. They rode Harley Ev bikes but the support vehicles were Rivian Prototypes. What was good about the program. They did should the true side of charging . In the program you see that they had a sprinter diesel van with them with a solar panel and a generator on the back to help the EV vehicles.
And had to continuously hire a big diesel truck with a big diesel generator on the back to charge the little motorcycles
And the rivians had to keep getting towed the rest of the way into town
@@MrMrsregor just shows that the world is not ready for what the governments are demanding.
@@darkcrawleruk yep.
when people started to use internal combustion powered cars, there was no big push to FORCE people to stop riding horses and go out and buy a internal combustion car, it just happened naturally as the technology increased and the price dropped.
EVs are great in some situations, but not for all.
there are different types of vehicles for different situations. i own many old vehicles that serve different purposes. i would not take my 1984 truck on a long trip, but i also wouldn't try to tow a trailer with my wifes rav4..
I think ev would be cool to drive back and forth to work, but not for long trips, towing, remote travel/exploration....
the biggest problems that i see is if the entire world tries to make this switch all at once it will overwhelm the NONexistent infrastructure, is completely unaffordable to most people, and the power from the power grid for changing these cars will still have to be produced at coal burning, natural gas burning, nuclear power plants
@@darkcrawleruk i was very happy to switch from nitromethanol rc trucks to battery rc trucks when the battery technology was finally up to the task. its a great EV platform, but i still wouldn't drive it across country ;)
@@MrMrsregor yeah the RCs have coke long ways. I just got into speed runs and with a 6s pack and standard motors I am running 85mph. The nitro stuff these days is uncommon and lots of people don’t like it around them cause of the noise and smoke.
It's still relatively new technology. Similar issues came about when combustion engines took over steam. Stuff like the range is going to increase as time goes on. However, personally from a scientific background and an outdoor enthusiast I believe a hybrid is the ideal system, particularly if we can work out producing hydrogen more efficiently and cleaner. But I think it's really impressive how far electric vehicles have come in such a short time. And it's unfortunate we have had shit government with the libs that haven't thought ahead. For most of Australia in the city electric cars will be brilliant. But hybrid vehicles for the adventurous and rural individuals.
Also with the environmental point of view. It's perfect if the batteries are recycled and the energy is coming from renewable sources such as solar, wind etc which is the government jobs
yea thats right.. Labor policy will be able to control the weather... lol
the entire solar battery wind industry will leave a mess that will make exon valdez look like a mud fight. wake up.
Recylcing wont do 100% of the work, you still need fresh new resources during the process.
@@gypsy_on_drugs1285 yeah of course. It's just trying to get to a point where we can be sustainable. And as technology progress and we learn more the more efficiently and sustainable we can be. Hopefully chemist can figure out a sustainable and cleanish way to produce hydrogen. Then we can keep that sexy combustion engine sound. Because the only by-product is H2O, so water vapour.
@@ragebait988 stupid comment. Labor policy is still poor, just better then the previous government. Unfortunately all of this gets political when it should be kept to experts
I'm also a scientist researching hydrogen production methods and I agree, in Australia for the things we in the 4wd community use our rigs for, hydrogen will be the zero emission answer unless batteries have really significant improvement. There are still major challenges with the implementation of both obviously.
But as long as we get on with decarbonising city cars, us enthusiast's are a minor case that can be addressed in one to two decades.
Glad you guys did some looking into hydrogen. I think hydrogen fuel cells could be the solution for remote and long distance vehicles, unfortunately the efficiency of the fuel cells isn't great at the moment, but they are making improvements with new catalysts so it is certainly possible. Safe(er) storage solutions using metal hydrides are already available so we are part way there.
look up H2X gippsland
Yeah read that toyota is looking into hydrogen for the hilux/land cruiser sins electric aint realy a option for remote places wher the grid is nott buildt to cope whit the charging.
100% Hydrogen Fuel Cell!!!! 👊🏼
Great conversation Lads.
You touched on this subject very briefly. The environmental impacts mining and producing the natural resources required for the batteries is substantial. I think we are all being mislead. Hyundai has just produced a hydrogen prototype vehicle for performance vehicles, and I believe Toyota is on the money.
What makes you think you have been misled? Just open up one of the many peer reviewed studies
Here in Humboldt County California our local college built a hydrogen fueling station that works back around 2005. Hydrogen powered vehicles have been heavily researched up here in Humboldt since the early 90's.
Did anybody hear? California asking to conserve energy. No charging 🥺?
I would wait about for to five years before worrying about it too much. A lot can change, and patience to feel it out I think is key.
Has anyone brought up the fact of.... recovery if you get stuck somewhere, let alone a "standard" recovery(we have our winches connected to our main battery) --how much will this affect our power drain
Also a fun fact, a decent amount of electric vehicles will NOT roll without having power. So a dead vehicle is an anchor and good luck recovering that sucker.
@@mikewhitman745 also fun fact. most EVs have a manual overide to put them in neutral
Who cares. Couple of minutes of winching will be no big deal on a battery pack.
Whats exiciting is the potential of EV winches. With 400+ volts on tap, you can imagine the potential winch speeds.
So the winch makes more power than the car. Your excited about the winch more than the car and that’s saying something😂😂
@@adamthreapleton9149 They'll need with power being cut worldwide Tesla's are the equivalent to 30 refrigerators running to charge
For any EV to leave the tarmac, it needs to be equipped with its own fire suppression system for the batteries. One drop of water gets into a lithium battery and Kaboom. There was a Tesla that caught fire in the US and the fire services were left helpless to put the fire out. Now imagine that in the High Country or along he Old Tele Track. A fire that's source cannot be extinguished.
From the UK here a point over here is we are running at capacity in terms of electric, we start introducing more things to take power the power grid can’t keep up and there could be black outs. As we buy a lot of power from Russia and places. It’s not sustainable at the moment. And it produces less pollution to run an old vehicle than what it takes to make a new one. And like you said which was an excellent point, they aren’t really made for second hand market. So it really isn’t better for the environment. Not sure how true it is they was asking people in Cali to not charge them as they was at capacity themselves a couple months back.
I do like evs, they have definite advantages, but the range and charging is the biggest issue, also the tech is another one
The mass of them is also concerning mainly in crashes that is alot of mass to be going through the door of a small hatchback. This applies to electric trucks, and old wooden bridges.
The lightening weighs less in between a conventional 1/2 ton and 3/4 truck.
Hay boy’s you’ll never beat the sound of a diesel or a v8 roaring in the bush 👍
Another few factors: The batteries are typically placed on the bottom of the vehicle where they can be pierced or damaged by rocks that you would encounter out in the trails. If this happens, they can catch fire. Another factor is the arcing possibility. These vehicles are not validated to the typical use case for Australia where the roads are rougher and there are more river crossings. What they don't tell you is that the electrical connectors are very suspect to damage in heavy duty applications. Once they are damaged, the high voltage electrical architectures are much more likely to arc and cause another thermal event. Another point, Hydrogen can be used in fuel cells, but it can also be used in internal combustion engines. Pretty much all the auto suppliers are working on that right now.
Hydrogen in ICE engines make WAY more sense.
@@javanbybee4822 Ethanol in ICE makes even more sense. The emissions are carbon neutral towards the environment throughout the whole life cycle.
As professional gardener iv been enjoying the use of battery powered tools. But definitely the more resistance you have the more battery you eat up. Example cutting bigger branches chainsaw or cutting longer grass with mower. So definitely the load on Electric motor and battery the runtime depletes significantly
I would say hydrogen is absolutely the most promising option, it's a little more complex than petrol in terms of filling them up but it takes a similar amount of time. The only emission is water and they can in theory be fitted with long range tanks
A fission-fusion bomb on wheels. All that is missing is the depleted Uranium and a government false flag!
They have to be at extremely high levels of pressure for hydrogen to be effective, it takes a heap of power to generate it, and has nowhere near the energy efficiency of petrol or diesel. So tanks will have to be way bigger think boot size. What happens when that tank get old and ruptures or in an accident. Occupants shredded into red mist. Again might be an answer for sole occupant trucks that need to be on the road as much as possible.
People were extremely sceptical about cars carrying flammable petrol in the beginning as well, and BEVs can produce chain reaction fires through the battery pack that are near impossible to put out. If the tanks are designed correctly and we can streamline the supply chain, hydrogen looks very promising
Water emissions are only from consumption. Industrial scale hydrogen production... completely different story.
Victoria's power companies can't keep up in summer with households running air-conditioning let alone charging 2 cars every night.
That's were your solar powered house comes into play. All looks good on paper!
If you are allowed to charge your batteries: In the state of California - they have a charging ban due to a lack of electricity in the state 🤣- Citizens were not allowed to charge their electric cars during the recent 3-day holiday weekend.
Great topic and very timely..
There is a place for EV's. Having them as your daily drive for commuting and shorter trips, less than say 400-450 km round trip, unless you charge over night at your destination would be perfect, if the car style vehicle fits your needs from a space perspective. In US and Europe there is an ok infrastructure so you could do longer trips, but again, you have to plan for it.
As an adventure (touring) vehicle I doubt seeing them being a valid option for many years/decades. Going out in the bush you just wont have a charger there to charge up up during you camp.
Many people get EV's to "go green" but forget how their electricity they charge it with is produced. Also remember the batteries are not that great from a "green" perspective to produce.
In the Outback: Call someone to bring you some "electricity, I just ran out". Good luck with that.
A dual cab ute that was electric would be a no brainer for the city or town tradie coupled with a good solar / battery setup at home and could still be used for the weekend warrior off-road stuff.
Just don't take it water, on dirt , on the beach ....ev ute is a soccer mums car.
@@madddevil1 Range is an issue but mark by words it will be far more capable off-road then many expect.
@@Spiraldeath they are about 50 years away from makeing anything viable for Australia. And have you ever seen lithium touch water...and they think Hydrogen is the volatile.... lithium is just as bad.
Batteries and solar panels are an environmental disaster waiting to happen.
Now that Graham is doing his own thing being a grey nomad in WA, is he still a regular crew of 4WD 24-7? Or will he just join in on some trips from time to time?
Graham hasn't gone anywhere mate! He will be on plenty of shows with the boys - plus showing you a heap of remote Australia at the same time. Besides who is going to keep Shauno warm at night? 😆
Hahaha cuddle buddies need each other
Nice that Graham's son could take his place
I think we should probably wait see a full adoption of small electric hatchbacks in the city before we start looking at electric offroad utes, one of my biggest concerns is the extra weight (ev utes are VERY heavy even unloaded) which will do alot of damage to offroad tracks
ok you forget about the fact that the battery is the lowest point of the car, it makes is good and bad for 4wd driving, but also makes it so you need extra underbody protection, if you hit a rock, it is Mutch worst to damage the battery then to break a diff. in other things the battery needs cooling in au, so that will decrease the range, and for last, an obvious one but still, many accessories and adapters for extra stuff will need a change most likely.
in England With the increase of energy it now cost more to charge your E.V then to fill your car with petrol and that is with very high petrol costs in the U.K
Long distance off road travel in an EV is possible, you'll need to bring your own Generator or lots of solar panels. Also don't plan on it being quick, but hey, just make sure that you're charging near a fishing hole, or you got a hammock and some cold ones on hand.
Glad this was done. I was never a fan of electric vehicles. Love to hear the rumbling of the mighty V8.
What I've found weird is why govts aren't pushing electric Motorcycles much. It's like an experiment on how well ev cars will go in a smaller pack
Range is the problem with the bikes
A silent motorbike is asking for more trouble.. the amount of times I hear a bike before seeing it in traffic is huge, noise is your friend on a bike and I don't ride
@@brettleonard8602 some have noise makers for that reason
A few motorcycle manufacturers are working on a common standard for swappable batteries. The Energica Experia m/c is around 200km+ range depending on use mode, so is useable around the more developed parts of Europe. Noise generators can be added to electric vehicles.
Statistically Motorcycles are involved in far more injuries and deaths, don't think the Government will want to "experiment" with peoples lives.
You didn't bring up Reliability and Part Availability. While it's not a 4WD vehicle, Tesla parts take MONTHS to get and I can't imagine parts for the trucks would be any different.
somethings that never get mentioned is how well does the power hold when yr spinning hard in bog holes and bogging .basically all the 4wd movement such as hill climbs rock climbing.does that battery time ware out quicker under all the harsh strains of 4x4 driving
absolutely loving this series
I see a lot of downfalls to the electric vehicles especially thespecially to fourwheel drives if you were to punch a hole in the battery out in the woods and it was to get wet lithium explodes when it gets wet another another thing is that that they say there's 0 emissions but it takes 4 thousand times as much emissions to build one as it does to just keep regular cars or trucks on the road. Just saying......
I doubt most 4x4s are used for touring/off-roading, the electrics will be just as much a status symbol as most the other 4x4s around town
Yep, I’d love to see the stats of how many fourbys never leave suburbia.
12:00 here in the US the battery is about 30% the used value of the Leaf. Not horrible, but our used prices are insane here.
Note the parallel of the battery is the powertrain. It's cheaper than doing and engine AND transmission on an ICE.
I don’t know if you guys thought wisely about this episode..
Technology with batteries and charging stations are excelling, Tesla are at the absolute forefront, I am VERY interested in the cyber truck.
Could be game changer!
There’s a lot of places in development for hydrogen at the moment, I worked at one place last week upgrading their security. Seems like it’ll be big soon
Hydrogen was on my list as well until listening to a Dr Carl talk that lists a massive list of problems, I am not as convinced now sadly.
It won't happen.
The whole EV "green energy" is a massive hoax. The impacts on the environment that mining, smelting and forming copper wires and winding motors for EV and also the lithium that needs to be mined for batteries not to mention the instability of battery chemistry far outweighs drilling and refining crude oil.
If the whole purpose is to reduce the amount of combustion engine vehicles on the road that would have a direct impact on refining of crude oil for fuels and other petrochemical such as the olefins which are extracted from poly gasoline and converted to Nonene which is the main component for plastics production. Without nonene how does the EV market plan to finish off coating all the electricl cables, making the dash, door trims, stereo units, door handles, door cards, nylon seat belts ect ect to finish their EV ready for Market?
Further to this the Australian Military has just renewed their entire catalouged fleet with brand new defence vehicles and equipment which all run off DIESEL so the question that begs to be asked is, is it okay for the Australian Government to have an agressive target to be green by 2030 but do exactly the opposite or as consumers are we all being led up the garden path under the guise of "do your part for the planet".
The whole crude oil damaging the planet theme is also itself another hoax as we are led to believe that crude oil came from the decomposition of dinosaurs, hence the term dinosaur juice but in fact dinosaur bones contain very little if any carbon at all. Fun fact, trees contain approx 50% of their volume in carbon. Another fun fact is Hydrogen is one of the main compounds of water and all organinc things (such as trees), so petrol, diesel and all other products derived from crude oil is a make up of hydrocarbon, Hydrogen and carbon molecules and many other elements suspended in it meaning that pretrol or "Dinosaur Juice" did not come from decomposing dinosaurs. It is a lifecycle where you plant a tree and it will provide cleaning properties by scavenging C02 out of the air and storing it. Once the tree dies it falls over and decomposes and will eventually form back into crude oil over hundreds or millions of years and be sucked back out of the ground later and re-refined as a hydrocarbon and burnt back through another combustion engine and captured by a different tree and the organic life cycle continues.
The solution to the problem is simple. Stop cutting trees down and plant more of them and make combustion engines more economical. Hydrocarbons as a fuel source are extremely stable in comparison the the "Greener Alternatives" such as lithium and hydrogen
Incorrect about where crude oil comes from. You've watched too many crap yt vids. There was once a period in earth's development with large trees, but no organisms that could break them down yet. This is more than 99% of all reserves in the world. Stop spouting bs lol
Yeah, with current tech - we are not there. Some of the batteries on the horizon tho? I am excited about those, both for charge speed and power density :)
never gonna happen.
lol the old mystery batteries that are the be all and end all of tech 🤣🤣🤣 been getting repeated for decades 🤣🤣🤣
@@ragebait988 Already is..
@@arronjohnston742 A simple search will tell you that batteries have come down in price by about 80% in 30 years and have improved in storage 85% in 10 years, if you think there's no more breakthroughs coming you have your head in the sand....
@@MickH60 🤣🤣🤣 they're FAR from ready for what the delusional morons are pushing and not even close to anything "green"....... i never said there's no more breakthroughs coming, just nothing that'll be close to ready any time soon.....
As far as Australia goes I do not know about the infrastructure but here in the USA they have the jeep 4xe and FCA is actually putting charging stations at offroad areas for people to use. It charges quick enough to get you outta the trails. That being said it is all about the infrastructure
No one mentions the Battery Degradation from regular charging, you check the range on your used 18k Nissan Leaf you will be lucky if you can get to the shops and back as the batteries become so weak they can only do 30/40km. Also in order to charge them you have to have a drive way that is a huge luxury these days, no flats or terraced houses with only on street parking. This push is ALL About linking your travel to your social credit score so your ability to travel can be turned off at the flip of an online switch !!
I would just say I’m all for electric vehicles if the technology can get there but unless I can get 1500kms of range loaded and there is a ton of stations even in remote areas it’s not for me
And the full charge time is under 15 minutes.
Then it will be a loong time until you are satisfied with EVs.
@@wuchengranschiiet9992 Australia is unique in terms of the distances we travel to enjoy our country.
Name a stock factory spec car that can do that lol
@@almostthere2024 I live in Nevada, it's the same issue concerning off roading. One of my favorite areas to explore is around Area 51. It is about 80 miles just to the turnoff for the offroad bit. To spend a week in the bush I need a range of about 500 miles minimum. If I need more I can always carry a few extra jerry cans.
Heard about synthetic fuels recently. Would like to know more. In theory they can make synthetic diesel, petrol, kero and others using renewable energy to split hydrogen from oxygen in water and mixing hydrogen with carbon pulled from the air and industrial plants etc. reckon that would be the go for a carbon neutral solution. We can keep the combustion vehicles we have that are reliable and built to last rather than exploit more resources to manufacture this throw away expensive rubbish they make these days.
I like this comment Jarred. Creating a synthetic fuel for all vehicles would make so much more sense, then we can keep utilizing the vehicles we already have. Imagine the amount of greenhouse gases that have already been produced in the manufacture of all the vehicles on the road today! The internal combustion engine isn't dead yet mate!
People have been burning cooking oil in older diesels for decades. It's not a new concept
This is being done by Porsche. At the moment. Will be crazy expensive tho I’d say
It's the Fischer-Tropsch reaction. But it requires carbon monoxide and hydrogen. Hydrogen could come from electrolysis from wind turbines or solar panels but the carbon monoxide needs to come from fossil fuels still.
@@mark2073 I like the idea so is old rev heads can drive our old classics around. But I don’t think it’s the answer for outback travel. It’ll be harder to come by than electricity by far.
I'm still convinced that synthetic fuels are the answer, requires zero changes to the distribution network (as it mixes with existing fuels), fixes the emissions of existing vehicles, not just expensive new ones.
All it requires is production to be scaled up to make it more affordable.
I looked at getting an electric outboard. It had a service internal of 10 years. No crappy fuel system, no horrible fuel system. looking forward to good batteries.
Mate they cant get the infrastructure sorted in the uk, 1/7 the size of WA... And a Jocko says, over 90% of electricity being made by coal. Then the Lithium used for the batteries. Well, they use diesel plant to mine it, use diesel to transport it, use diesel to ship it to factories running off over 90% coal powered powerstations to make it into a battery. Then the use diesel to transport the batteries to where the cars are produced. Volvo did their own study on the xc40, for the d4 model to have the same carbon footprint of the all electric xc40, the d4 has to 140k miles....
And the you comment on replacement batteries for a Tesla... you cant, or motors, they wont sell you replacements! They sell you a new car! Tesla batteries, known failure 5 to 10 yrs....
The solution is not electricity!
Also, side note... electric cars, no road tax etc etc, house hold electric bills going up... strange...
Hardly more environmentally friendly either as mining the lithium for the batteries makes HUGE amount of pollution and refining it to be usable takes a lot of power. When mining machines become electric, then i'd be more incline to use them as theyd be tested in harsh conditions.
The lack of range is the idea.
They don’t want us to be able to go far or be independent
The real truth is they don't intend on people having cars anymore and at first it'll be electric bicycles then that will be too much
I can already imagine cutting down forests in some remote locations to build a charging station for your eco friendly car.
Sounds like a petrol head...
I’m from the uk and I’ve been waiting for this episode for ages and I’m glad that the boys the legend’s them selves are agreeing electric 4wds isn’t going to work there’s so many negative things about them and and you will never beet a diesel 4wd I will run diesel 4wd until the day I Die.
I saw a doco recently about how the main feeders in this country are not even big enough to handle the load coming from solar farms with the owners saying they would not invest in building more in Australia as they cant even export all the power they make now because the feeders cant handle the load. All subdivision power feeders and transformer systems are sized for the current load, if you wanted to put a 15 amp power point in every house to charge there EV in the subdivision you would have to do a massive upgrade to the feed in lines and transformers for every subdivision in the country.
If ya ever need a drone pilot (licenced, and insured), let me know. Would love to join you all and get some amazing shots...
I would definitely like to see an electric vehicle go through the Frenchman's track with all that water And trying to winch itself out without blowing any fuses Or Overloading the batteries
Thats my thing. Water.. the entry to the Cape would almost be a death sentence
Search up the teslas going through floods. Enough weight they dont float very much and pretty water resistant
@@jaredpursey3791 The Rivian R1T has a 1 metre wading depth
I think the Rivian RT1 has a fording depth of about 900mm vs about 700 on the 79 for example.
And I don't think you'd be overloading those batteries with a winch - it's same batteries that make those cars accelerate pretty impressively.
But you still have a point, I don't see electric cars in hard offroad use either.
Are you for real? You think a lithium battery pack that would support a 450hp drive motor won't support a 6hp winch?
Electric 4wd’S will be an amazing way to explore all the new mines they open up to mine all the lithium. Creating a greener world and opening up off-road playgrounds at the same time!! 2 birds with one stone aye lads
If EVs could compete, they wouldn’t need to force them on people.
7:02 another journalist site on UA-cam, TFL truck, did a towing test on the F150 lightning in the mountains of Colorado and couldn’t even get to the next town loaded. Their range dropped below 100 miles from full charge
Here in the USA, I own both a Tesla, and a jeep, apropriate technology for the end use of each. Ford owns Rivian, so you are stuck. Jeep and Ram both have 4wd Hybrids that seem to perform, but I would worry about the complications caused by having 2 powertrains playing nice toegether. The plus side is hybrids (and Rivians) can run all the fridges, induction cookers etc.
Still boggles my mind why golf carts aren't looked at for town cars
It’s sad to see electric vehicles literally being shoved down our throats especially here in the US