What is your theory on the ending and how part 3 ends?? Subscribe for more! Follow my Twitch here: www.twitch.tv/philiphartshorn My Discord here: discord.gg/J85mKhG Watch my film work here: ua-cam.com/video/FQg5b6bagGs/v-deo.html Watch my couple channel here: www.youtube.com/@PhilipandAliya Follow my Twitter: twitter.com/philipharts
Bro...Yuffie and Vincent were both optional in the OG and now both tied to Deep Ground. What if... there's a fight with them together, fighting Nero!? 🤯 That'd be SO perfect!
Tifa was actually seeing the world overlap, that's why she was able to see both the real world and the world Cloud's mind was in. The rainbowy effect signifies world divergence in the Lifestream. Tifa can see what Cloud sees because of her exposure to the Lifestream from when she fell into it in Gongaga. As for Sephiroth, the reason why they kept him vaguely alive at the end of Advent Children is because they were keeping things just open enough for a final chapter in the original compilation. Sephiroth still existing and Genesis still being alive was supposed to lead-up to one more harrah for the VII universe, but resources and other project focuses never allowed it to come to fruition.
I literally hope he shows up, and as soon as he goes to talk, sephiroth just ends him immediately in a "dont waste my time" kind of way. Would be amazing.
I do believe this is a sequel in a sense that Sephiroth is seemingly course correcting where he went wrong in the original games. Maybe he successfully reconstructs his body in FF7AC and that's where he starts planning. I'm not sure. All I know is I am so appreciative this was the route they went. I love having these questions, I love theorizing over a game that I should have most of the answers for because it already exists. Embracing the revisions as he calls it instead of lamenting that we're not getting a 1 for 1 story just feels great. No remake has been able to pull off what FF7 has done.
Why I think we're in sequel territory: At the end of og Holy and the lifestream meld together before connecting with meteor followed by a bright flash and credits. I think Holy and the lifestream melding is the catalyst for Remake. Imo, Holy is that rainbow effect you see throughout the story..when Zack decides left or right, when Seph is info dumping Cloud in the lifestream, in Aerith's dream, when Aerith puts the real Holy materia in her ribbon, and when Seph is above city of the ancients and the sky opens up. Holys' whole deal is to get rid of everything bad for the planet....meteor, weapon and possibly the humans. So, what's going on? Holy is experiencing and judging humanity via the lifestream to see if they are worthy to exist. The fly in the ointment? Seph/jenova cells(geo stigma) is still in the lifestream. So you have this tug of war: Sephiroth trying to show the ugliness of humanity and Aerith going nononono, there's still good stuff here!!! I know Hamaguchi is writing it...but I'm going full Nomura with this theory. 36:49 you can really see it here with the rainbow in the clouds...what comes out afterwards? Lifestream.
I feel like these theories actively disregard Advent Children. Cloud seeing Aerith isn't something exclusive to this game. He sees Aerith when he's driving to the forgotten capitol, he sees her again when fighting Bahamut, and Cloud sees her and Zack again at the end of the movie. Tifa on the other hand only looks at Cloud. Nobody else reacts to Aerith and Zack being in the church at the end of the movie other than the kids. Aerith likely has some vague control over who sees her. And in the original game Cloud sees her when if he goes to the church after she passes. This really isn't something new this game came up with.
I adore the ending so much. This is my theory: It’s lifestream Aerith. That’s why Nanaki can sense her too, if she was just in clouds head he wouldn’t sense her. I also don’t think she’s Jenova because I don’t think jenova would say “goodbye” like that at the end. How is she appearing to Cloud though? Maybe it’s a function of Holy. Before handing Cloud the white materia in the church cloud says “but your mom gave that to you” and Aerith replies “this isn’t about me though, it’s about saving the world, *and you*. If it is because of the white materia then that could also be how aeriths mom appeared to her in traces of two pasts after her death. I think Aerith did this as a Hail Mary to prevent clouds mind from breaking completely, which would have been an early checkmate for Sephiroth in this 4D chess game between Sephiroth and Aerith. That’s why Sephiroth says “that shouldn’t be here, very poor form” when he sees the white materia in the sleeping forest and also why he says “I underestimated you” to Aerith. It’s because she subverted sephiroths plan of breaking cloud in that moment. When Aerith says those lines to cloud at the end about how it’s a second home to her and how she’ll keep praying to stop meteor etc, we as the players can understand that she’s actually talking about the lifestream. However she’s saying it to cloud as if shes talking about the forgotten capital, as if that is the second home where she’ll continue praying, it’s because she’s coddling him, protecting his mind from the reality that she’s dead. She has to sell him a story for why she’s not joining the party onward. That’s why cloud even questions it one time and says “but what if something happens?”, and she says “then I’ll send up smoke!”, and he’s like “I’ll keep an eye out”. He fully believes she’s alive and merely continuing her prayers at the forgotten capital. And she’s helping him believe this lie not because she wants to but because she has to for the sake of keeping clouds fragile mind intact just a little bit longer, all in an effort to defeat Sephiroth.
Seeing Aeriths death from Clouds perspective is so much more context than we as observers could have ever hoped for. One of the best lore expansions in FF history.
@@mobiusnnaito2543 I think that’s quite a stretch. After her death scene whenever we see Aerith talking from the Sephiroth fight to the lake scene to the very last scene we’ve seen her mouth moving and saying the words that she says, but you think the last line is the flowers behind her saying it and not her because we couldn’t see her mouth? No chance. It didn’t show her mouth because they wanted the last shot to be her looking up at the party as they fly away to continue their journey. She won’t be joining them but like the flowers that represent her she’s part of the planet/lifestream and will still do everything she can to help.
Here is a fun theory I'd like to throw your way. Play through the Final Boss fight again, but imagine it takes place in 3 different realities. At the start of the fight when you fight Jenova, no matter what you do, Cloud will always be the last target engaged with Jenova before you defeat her. (Reality 1) When the dust settles and your allies re-enter, think about how they talk, they don't speak as if someone was just stabbed, they talk like they are defeating a final evil and everything is alright, this is the reality where Cloud did save Aerith (Reality 2) Also consider how the arena is falling apart and it gives this "final final boss" vibe like they are going to defeat Jenova/Sephiroth there and then Then Cloud disappears (Everyone HP/MP is restored a very sneaky way to hide the fact that we are fighting within different realities) and fights with Zack in an alternate "falling reality" where they fight Jenova at the same time (Reality 1) is fighting Jenova and then of course Zack and Cloud fighting Sephiroth seperately but still in sync, it's not something you can just keep swapping between each fight with but at that point I imagine it like this when Cloud and Zack are fighting together they are fighting in (Reality 2), when Zack is by himself he is in (Reality 3) and when Cloud and Aerith fight they are in (Reality 3) But basically think about the cutscene before the rest of the gang fights Jenova/Bahamut Arisen (Reality 1), they say Cloud disappeared however it is never made clear if this is him disappearing after (Reality 2) or if he had disappeared when the dust settled and he wasn't there. At the end though when it comes to fighting "Sephiroth Reborn" who exist within all 3 (Realities) I do believe the intent is them fighting them all at the same time, which I feel is further proved by how Cloud and Zack both have access to their Synergy attacks even though they aren't within the same realm but the idea is they all al fighting Sephiroth at the same time and are so in tune that they are still able to synergize their attacks even through other realities. Another thing to consider which I feel would solidify this theory is that we learn that realities that pretty much hit a "Dead End" are erased from existance, in this case (Reality 2) and (Reality 3), even though they have to fight and win against Jenova so he doesn't overpower (Reality 1) the sad truth becomes saving Aerith in (Reality 2) leads to a Dead End event because without her being in the Lifestream and able to interact with Holy she would be unable to save the planet at the end of the game. Similarly (Reality 3) is already a dead reality that they are fighting in, it is just a space in which Cloud, Zack and Aerith are capable of interacting with one another. Finally, there is no way Aerith would lie to Cloud like that, why would she say "I saw what you did back there Cloud, Thank you." Why would she lie to Cloud about him saving her in another reality? Aerith realizes that with the changes made Cloud did defy reality in one timeleine where he did save her but the cruel reality becomes that in order for her to fulfil her destiny her life needs to end there, and knowing that it is a dead end timeleine she continues to fight on to point Cloud back towards the proper destiny/reality. If I could ask the director one question I would ask him if the Final Fight takes place in multiple realities and if Cloud's allies that we fight with are from 2 different realities, one where she was saved, and one where she died. Since one last thing to consider when they fight Bahamut Arisen, the platform never changes, nothing is falling apart, reality isn't imploding on itself unlike the fight with Jenova Lifeclinger where everything is breaking apart like reality is disappearing in a sense. Another thing to take note is how the platform for both the last phase of Jenova Lifeclinger and Sephiroth Arisen are completely different it gives off heavy vibes that the Whispers knowing that this reality where Aerith was saved was to unstable and removed them from that reality and placed them into the reality where they need to be.
I like listening to all the theories, but you are breaking some very awesome thoughts down. I also hope that when we get the collectors edition of this game and believe me, I will be buying the collectors edition, that it is ridiculous and comes with a copy of Advent children or a download code to do so. I know a couple of the voice actors personally and they can’t tell me anything obviously but I am so excited to see this final chapter come to life. It’s very personal for me and a few different levels. This story really helped me cope with loss way back in 97.
I always love your film and cinematography breakdowns and i especially love how thorough and detail-oriented this theory is, bringing in the visual elements, other ff7 media, the eagle-eye on the narrative, etc. Just a really fantastic, satisfying, and insightful watch! Thank you!!
First off, I don't think there can be any doubt that this is a sequel. From cloud having visions of things that hadn't even taken place yet, especially in Remake (Sector 7 plate falling and Aerith's death just to name a couple). Aerith and Sephiroth also have clear knowledge of the events in the OG. There is far too much dialogue pointing towards it being a sequel. For example, Cloud said to Sephiroth that he (Cloud) had already killed him. Whereas Sephiroth in the OG had no idea who cloud was at first. Second, Sephiroth said to Cloud that he is too weak to save anyone, not even himself. He said this right at the moment Cloud first meets Aerith in Remake. A clear nod to the fact he failed to save Aerith the first time around. This is just a couple of examples. Plus all of the talk of changing destiny. It is beyond obvious to me that this is a sequel. Second, my theory is, I think the developers are trying to lead us up the garden path. They're using our knowledge of the OG against us. This time, in the end, Cloud isn't an unreliable narrator, he is the only reliable narrator. At least as far as the ending of Rebirth is concerned. Cloud is seeing the truth, the others aren't. Cloud is the only person that can see the rift in the sky at the end. Cloud is the only person that gets through the whispers in the Forgotten Capital. Which don't let the others through until Cloud deflected Sephiroth's attack. Otherwise they would see Cloud deflect the attack and know the truth. It is also reflected in gameplay with everyone having their limit breaks except Cloud. At first we think it is because Cloud is the unreliable narrator, and he thinks she is alive. But this time, I think it is because Cloud does in fact know the truth, it is the others that are unreliable. It is why in the boss fight that follows afterwards, The others mention Cloud not being there, and he only re-joins them later. He was in another world that has only began merging with the one the rest of the party is in. I think this plays nicely into the trilogy being a sequel. Sephiroth knows his plans failed in the OG. So this time around, rather than trying to break Cloud, he is trying to mess with the others in the party, to make them think Cloud has gone insane. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Rather than try to mess with Cloud himself, he is trying to break the others and their trust in Cloud. So when Cloud stepped through the whispers at the end, he stepped into a different world. At the point he deflects Sephiroth's attack on Aerith, he unknowingly began merging the worlds. The world in which he Saved Aerith, and the world that the others are still in, where Aerith dies. "And so it begins. A confluence of worlds...and emotions." So the relationship between Cloud and the others is going to be tested in part 3. Nothing can divide friendships like your friend not believing the truth. I think this is all one big meta commentary on us, the player being the unreliable narrator this time around. We know what happened, or what was supposed to happen. At least we think we do, but we don't.
Cloud said he already killed Sephiroth because he already did in the OG as well. Cloud kills Sephiroth in the true Nibelheim flashback events revealed in the lifestream sequence with tifa. This is not indicative of a sequel, and it wouldn’t make sense if cloud remembered end of OG. Aerith and Sephiroth have the knowledge of the ancients which includes oracle like powers and visions.
@PhilipHarts sephrioth gives cloud the ability to see the timelines at the end of his speech about the world's and the planets and in the final battle with cloud and aerith cloud say he can't hurt him anymore and he knows the truth now
Cloud doesn’t just see Aerith in AC because of guilt it’s because her consciousness lives on inside him. That’s why she appears to him during the end credits of AC.
Yes but her function in the story is to represent Cloud’s guilt, which he lets go and forgives himself for in the film, letting Aerith go and moving on to live his life.
Fenrir the wolf represents Cloud’s guilt. Notice that the wolf is absent once he speaks with Vincent and Marlene because he begins to forgive himself. And to add to your point about Aerith representing his guilt. This makes sense as well because Cloud can never look at Aerith. He’s too ashamed. When he tries in the Forgotten Capital the moment with Aerith ends. But his able to use her assist defeating Bahamut and then at the end he’s able to look at her and Zack as he waves goodbye. Cloud also smiles here.
didn't expect to finally have my moment of grief over Aerith this morning after a year. Thanks for this Phil, it's excellent insight as always. I feel like understanding cinematic language goes along way in the end of this game.
It's definitely hard to say what exactly is going on with Aerith at the end. I like your explanation. A lot of it makes total sense. I'm still leaning towards the Ending Aerith being from the Lifestream and possibly one other place. We may be seeing more than one Aerith at the end.
Ooo yeah, the whole lifestream white bit where she ponders if she could use avatars like Seph does. She cites not wanting to do this as she wants Cloud to see her...but it makes you wonder if maybe she figured out how she could do this using her own soul/ body w/e.
@@MrLightlike78 Yeah, she talks about it in the Maiden Who Travels the Planet. Wishing she could do the things that she does in Rebirth. The final date and such.
The life stream is the quantum field where time exist forever and at a moment. Sephiroth is a consciousness that exist in quantum field. Not existing but present. Cloud is just schrodingers cat. When observed by Sephiroth, he breaks down into a state of being cloud or not cloud. The black materia is the equation that calculates how gravity fits into the quantum field theory (which we dont have because it's special). Sephiroth needs that equation so he can collapse the quantum field (lifestream) into a form that is existing in the material world. Yeah Final Fantasy 7 is just someones wierd explanation of quantum field theory. Oh also, white materia is hope (a subset of consciousness)
This was one of the most convincing arguments I've seen about the direction of the Remake series. Maybe the most convincing. I definitely think there will be some changes to how events play out and certainly to the ending. But given your arguments around cinematic language and creating a more complete story that supports the conpilation, I could definitely see any changes reflecting that approach. Excellent video. I'm subscribing.
Dude. This was so well broken down - thank you for such a clear, rational explanation of your thoughts. I always saw the ending as "Cloud is losing his shit," but I didn't pick up on how we were seeing things from Tifa's perspective vs. Cloud's. I'm so excited for Part 3, and I'm trying hard not to think about how long we have to wait for its release 🥺
This is a great video, I appreciate that you're very focused on the meaning of narrative decisions in the remake trilogy, as that's clearly the level the devs are on but most of the fans aren't. But I think two of the ideas you put forth here don't cohere very well. On the one hand you say they want to say something with these decisions given the cinematic language and writing choices, but on the other hand you say they want to tie up the remake trilogy as a complete package containing all the lore of the other FFVII compilation games. I don't see these as being mutually compatible for most players of the remake trilogy, i.e. people like me who didn't bother with the rest of the FFVII content. For example, after analyzing how the subjective perspective of the ending frames Aerith's interactions with Cloud as a manifestation of his guilt, you suggest that Deep Ground should make an appearance in part 3, but what meaning would that contribute to the main story or the characters besides very literal, rote revenge for Yuffie? Even within Rebirth itself, when Zack's Crisis Core character motto is interjected in the middle of Rebirth's rollercoaster ending, what does that mean for Cloud's guilt or anything else happening on screen? Why should I care about Zack's embracing his dreams as an enforcer of a colonizing megalomaniac corporation that we saw 30 hours back hugely damaged his hometown? Because the ending invokes this multiversal perspective repeatedly, it's no longer just Cloud's subjective experience. Portraying Zack in the middle of all of this invokes everything else about him so far in the story, including his questionable service to Shinra. Zack's presence turns the ending into a thematic mess of ideas. I personally think this thematic noise is done intentionally to breed disorientation in players, to capture that feeling of the original of not being really sure if Aerith was fully dead or not. But it comes at the sacrifice of obscuring what they're trying to say, as evidenced by you being one of the few voices championing this meaning-based analysis of the game.
i agree. The ambiguity at the end gives the fans something to ponder, talk about and theorize over. There would be no conversation if it were clearly depicted whats happening. Now we have a few years to chat and test our theories just like in remake. Its a great way to prolong the experience beyond hte literal game
THANK YOU for bringing FFX up, that is probably a key element that most are missing about this,Nojima was writer of X he himself believes that Both X and VII happens in the same world (heck Shinra is literally in the photo in remake) it's not surprising he is using rules he made for that world here IT's literally how the idea of dreams and such works in FFX (without getting into spoilers but if you remember THAT twist everything basically clears up),most just think this is some multiverse shenanigans without realizing how deep the connection with X is in this case. Without even bringing the parallels that this remakes keeps on giving they clearly wanted to cement that connection between the two.
Agreed with everything you said in the video! Especially loved how much you pointed out Tifa’s POV during the ending, I think a lot of people overlook how well it was done and what the implications are. I think it was a brave ending too, and some of the critics are too shortsighted. It’s been my hope but I think it is becoming more likely after the Rebirth final boss sequence, that Aerith and Zack will fight a version of Jenova in the Lifestream, probably while the rest of the party is fighting her too. It would be an especially cathartic close to Aerith’s personal story as a Cetra and her “The source… of everything” line in Remake. Ever Crisis I think is hinting to something like that too with Jenova NUCLEUS.
A huge proportion of all of this, I think, is to create speculation on Aerith's fate. Back in 1997, I remember being on internet forums and in school discussing her fate, if she was really dead, how we could get her back - and I think this depiction was intentionally crafted to create similar (but more modern) discussions through the medium of metanarrative. I honestly think it's brilliant
See my interpretation is that she tapped into the mako inside Cloud. Through the same manipulations of Jenova/Sephiroth. I think she is now his guiding voice, not Zack. Shes dead but she guides him even now.
If life is energy, then aerith could still still connect to cloud. Think mycelim or even electricity through steel. Electricity can transfer from 1 steel bar to another even without touching, it'll just be weaker. Even trees can communicate with trees within a short distance by sending signals from root to root through the soil itself.
It's also possible that the reason only cloud can communicate with aerith and Zack is because he's the only one whose had extreme exposure to mako. Which is the liquid for of the lifestream. Meaning cloud literally has a high concentrated amount of the lifestream inside him.
Want to know what happened at the end of Rebirth? Well, it's simple: the writers put the party in a situation very similar to Empire Strikes Back and similar second volume titles. They added a little bit of artistic license and expression. And then players didn't get exactly what they wanted, when they wanted. So all the entitled "fans" and "critics" rated the game unfairly because they "didn't like the ending"-- sabotaging the game from achieving the awards it deserves. That's what happened.
The part where cloud is holding Aerith and he is glitching between his monologue and his new perspective. In the new perspective, Cloud is crying. Expressing so much emotion as he holds a still living and smiling Aerith. But when it glitches to the monologue, where we remember from the original, Cloud expresses words of grief, emotion, and sadness, , in Rebirth's iteration, the glitch, there are no tears and his lips are moving but there is no sound. As Sephiroth says, a puppet, void of emotion (no tears), and empty words (voice muted). With your theory, it makes more sense. The version of Cloud facing his traumas, the guilt of not saving Aerith is the glitch. Its what Tifa see. Its Tifa's reality. Its the version of Cloud Tifa hasn't mentally rescued yet. And then there is Cloud's new perspective. The lie. The fabrication. Its the version of Cloud that is expressive and caring. This lie is shielding him from the grief and traumas of guilt. I swear this new iteration of FF7 through the Re:trilogy. I have no words. I cant wait to play the final installment when it comes out.
That is a theory, but no confirmation as of yet. I speak on this theory in the video and a cool way they could confirm it if they decide to. But Sephiroth and Aerith both having more knowledge than they should was always a part of the original, so it doesn’t change too much.
I think the aerith that helps cloud during the sepheroth fight is the lifestream aerith, or the real one. And the one you see sitting next to him at the end, and by the tiny bronco is actually jenova manipulating him for a total break. Up until that point she kept telling him to stop fighting and focus on healing himself. At the end when he swears revenge, she makes him promise. Which is the exact opposite of what the real aerith wanted while she was alive.
Aerith Told Cloud Something on long the lines "You haven't meet the future me but when you do you'll like her." After the beach fight so maybe that Aerith is doing what she can to help stop Sephiroth. The White Whispers are her's and the Black are his. Aerith only presents herself to Cloud he is in tune enough to see her Red Xlll got touched by her and he felt her and called out to her. But I mean who really knows where they are going to go with it but if I'm right you heard it here 1st. lol
Great video as always. The Jenova theory is fun, but I’m not completely sold on it just yet. I think the seeds are there, very intentionally, but not necessarily because it’s true. Sephiroth will surely try to convince Cloud (and the player) of it like he did all throughout Rebirth with Tifa. He tried to convince Cloud Tifa isn’t Tifa, even though she is. I think he’s doing the same with Aerith. He desperately needs Cloud to distrust the actual lifestream Aerith. And perhaps Jenovaerith is a part of that plan. My point being that it works with or without one. So in that sense having it solely being J-Aerith at the end does kind of unnecessarily undermine the emptional impact of the ending. Side note-Even if there is a Jenovaerith, it can’t just be that. We know theres also a Lifestream Aerith, as seen in AC and parts of Rebirth. Of course there could be both, but that raises questions like why wouldn’t LS-Aerith show up and tell cloud about J-Aerith and try to dissuade him immediately? If she’s truly omniscient she should know about it. (TBF maybe she will in part 3 or we just have to suspend our disbelief when it comes to omniscience. If Obi wan always showed up and helped Luke, there wouldn’t be much of a story)
Great video I agree with you Phillip. You laid out a solid outline. Sad to see in the comments so many people in denial like cloud, even in denial like players of the original game. It’s very meta that players still can’t accept she’s gone. Poetic.
Forgive me if this was already mentioned but I just noticed that Sephiroth mimics how Masamune was wielding the Masamune. I wonder if it is also a sword style as well. It would be interesting if the Masamune has some sort of sentience.
If there were to be any shred of redemption for Sephiroth... I picture the final epilogue to be him sitting off alone at some distant vantage within the lifestream, more or less atoning and thinking. And then childhood Aerith comes up to him and shares a few tender words and asks him to play with her. And he cracks a bit of a smile. And that's a wrap. I don't know... Some would call it maudlin, but hey, if properly earned and executed well...
About that creepy piece of music that plays when Aerith appears to Cloud at the Forgotten Capital, we actually hear that music at the end of Chapter 2 when the Midgardsomr swallows Cloud and Sephiroth appears to save him. When Sephiroth is staring down at Cloud that music plays.
Although I am sort of hoping they do a "happy ever after" ending (deluded I know!) I have to say this is an incredibly well explained and reasoned explanation of what happened and likely to happen next. Bravo 👏
Great video! So curious how, if it’s not a sequel, they’ll tie it into AC without feeling like the culmination of this new decade-long saga is homework to go watch AC again.
I think I it can be both a ending to everything with Sephiroth for that sequel satisfaction, while telling the original story better and revising the whole compilation to finally be one cohesive consistent feeling work instead of several stories that feel very separate in style. I talk about this a little at the end.
I remember reading an article about how the director had a tough time deciding between Tifa and Arieth to be the heroine. Personally, I think either of those strong ladies could’ve just moved on and found another man. I mean Vincent is not bad or even Genesis would’ve been interesting. But someone at Square Enix suggested that he kill one of the girls, and that’s how the story ended up the way it did. Ever since then every time I come across a character that’s so likable but could be in conflict with the hero/heroine’s relationship I know that s/he will die for sure.
I think your views on the ending are some of the closest so far. The multiverse theories are understandable from the perspective of someone new to the story, but as someone very familiar with the original, I see how this interpretation fits so well with the original narrative while portraying the deeper metaphysical elements so well that weren't a part of the original. The 3rd part is going to be phenomenal.
Hey Phil, great video. Have you considered making a video analysing the ending fight sequences? I feel like a lot happens and I would personally be interested in a play by play of the fights.
The DXracer box had a worse fate than Aerith jokes aside I love this point of view I've been saying for a while we shouldn't look at everything logically its a fantasy story you have to see it more artistically
Here's the thing that really throws me off, I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on this. Why did we see a bullet going directly towards Zack's head which would have certainly killed him on the spot, then get swooped away by the whisper wind at the very last second? That was not how he died originally. There was the speech with Cloud holding him and Zack giving him the buster sword afterwards, which couldn't have happened if Zack had been shot in the head. Why do you think they would have made that specific change in Rebirth? It doesn't make any real sense with any theory I've heard, including that everything is just revised, showing us the lifestream, and moving directly into Advent Children. Is that also just a dream and a meaningless/cinematic change? Or it was his desire to be saved by an invisible force, which he would later realized was Aerith? Either way doesn't quite do it for me. But very interested to know your thoughts! Great video!
Here's the thing.. the lifestream has layers. Mako, the upper layer where your soul initially goes, and then the planet. Mako is the physical form, messing with it can allow access to your subconscious memories. Upper layer is like a purgatory/staging ground for the eventual absorption back to the planet. The planet serves as the "Promised Land" which is where all Cetra knew they would go, and would be happy. If you consider the purpose of the upper layer is to prep you for the planet, and that preparation is the release of your baggage so you can move on, then it stands to reason Zack was in this layer, hanging on to his battle to save Cloud and reliving it constantly. It need not play out identically each time, because the purpose would be to show him that no matter what, the outcome is the same: his death. And hopefully, he accepts it and moves on, or is otherwise slowly eroded away over time into the lifestream. Zack *is* dead. He *is* in the lifestream. and... He *will* reunite with Aeris.
With the whispers helping Zack, it would change the dynamic of the fight. Zack wont fight the same with the whispers zipping around helping. That and they have gone back in time help him live this time. So the bullet makes sense
@@zacatkinson3926 No, they didn't. He's just as dead as Aeris at the end of Rebirth. If you're referring to the line that says "Zack cheats death", then you've fallen for their red herring. Zack was reliving his death in his own version/corner/bubble/layer/whatever you wanna call it of the lifestream (which is and the whispers changed that when the Arbiter went away. Remember how Aeris tells Cloud when they wake up after falling at the temple that the place is a homecoming, homeward bound perhaps, but to just call it a dream - HER dream to be precise? Yeah... Aeris created that place; they were there because Aeris set it up. She knew what was going to happen - which is subtly demonstrated all thru Remake - and so she took steps to make sure that "dream" of hers would play out like it did. This means she knew Zack would get them there, which implies *she* is responsible for the whispers saving Zack. Which is also evidenced by the feeling he got because he asks her unconscious body if it was her. Y'all gonna feel so dumb for not seeing these things right in front of your face when part 3 comes out and lays out the entire gameplan finally. But, hey, maybe I'm wrong and I'm gonna be the one feeling dumb. Who knows. One thing I think everyone can agree on is that pt3 can't come soon enough.
I don't think mine is a theory but more what I saw and felt when I finished it The first thing that isn't even up for debate is Aerith's death She is dead, the other party members are mourning her passing In the fight with Jenova they are all out and have full limits Everyone except Cloud who is in total denial Sephiroth makes it clear that he won't be able to see reality "The worlds" we see are all from Lifestream Sephiroth is basically corrupting the Lifestream In the CG movie outside Forgotten Capital the Lifestream turns from green to black The worlds we see, as Sephiroth says, are generated, some last longer but they are all destined to disappear Zack is dead and in the Lifestream Aerith is dead and in the Lifestream In fact she helps both Zack to find the right path or we can say she managed to reunite with him knowing where he is It helps Cloud but The edge of Creation is more of a Lifestream thing or it could be a creation of Cloud's subconscious Practically where there will be the final fight with Cloud's inner Sephiroth At the end of everything there is the funeral which we don't see but we will see in part 3 When they are sitting near the lake the one who appears to Cloud is Jenova However, the one at the end of the game with the Goodbye could easily be the real Aerith As for Cloud being able to see Aerith I think it's thanks to the mako he has inside his body which is ultimately Lifestream That's why he has that connection both with her, with Zack and where he sees "the worlds"
I'm gonna laugh so hard after all this theorycrafting if it was straight up Aerith and Sephiroth going back in time through the lifestream all along and all this wild speculation is just a beautiful Nomuraism 'gotcha' and we get some wild ending where Aerith and Zack are both actually alive and everyone fights the crazy time travelling Sephiroth together in a convergence of worlds/timelines. I really hope this post doesn't get a callback in a few years though.
This is the way I’ve always interpreted Rebirth and Remake; all the major beats from the OG are plainly taking place even if the story is being told a little different. No “Jenova-Aerith”, no multiverse but everything branching from the same lifestream, and Aerith is still dead.
Philip bro great video you're awesome been a fan for awhile! What do you think of my theory? I think Cloud is the one that killed Aerith in the rainbow world. Cuz Cloud deflects Sephiroths Sword, destiny changed but Aerith still ends up dead in the rainbow world that was created with cloud crying profusely. How? Why? Because Cloud being puppeted by Sephiroth killed her. The Devs wanted to make a big impactful change without completely derailing the story/characters. So they created these Dream worlds where Cloud can still accidentally kill Arieth resulting in Clouds guilt consuming him putting him in a broken state of mind as we see at the end of Rebirth. But still not robbing Sephiroth of his iconic villain role of killing Arieth because she still dies by his hand in the real world. Sephiroth smiles as Cloud deflects the sword because he knows he can get cloud to kill Arieth, resulting in Arieth force ghosting to consul him, resulting in Clouds mind to break and be confused, resulting in Tifa and party distancing themselves from him, resulting in cloud losing all hope and succoming to be a robbed man like he sees himself as in his vision.
Thank you so much, and that’s a Great theory. It would be extra brutal, and a shocking twist for sure, making Sephiroth evil more evil and cloud even more guilty.
I just know that this is the FINAL FINAL FANTASY VII GAME. They gotta wrap up EVERYTHING. Can’t wait to see what they pull off. They may need to release it towards the end of the year whenever it comes out so it won’t get screwed out of anymore GOTY awards.
I almost need sector 7 level bluprints and schematics at this stage. Hojo might think Aerith is clouds.. I put FFAC as the time Cloud spent in the mako chamber and is most likely disabled in a wheelchair if Aerith cannot accept his disability or reality.
Aerith is in the Livestream and "calls" Cloud from there the same way we are calling our friends and family with our Smartphones. Aerith ist just smarter then our technology nowadays. 😉😇
With FF7OG it isn't explained how the black materia made Sephiroth reborn. But With the change In FF7 Part 3, The reunion of Worlds, I believe the black materia's function is to be Sephioths version of revive. Which excels a "complete" form of Sephiroth. Basically like Cell in DBZ Against Gohan. It will of course be used to summon Meteor but not in the way of OG. With the knowledge of the ancients already learnt travelling realities. i believe this is purely added knowledge inside the materia to enhance his powers further, not the Orb power to summon the end of the world.
Do you think that Cloud will realize that Aerith died in the livestream sequence? I’m not sure what to think of it. On one hand, I think that doing so lessens the focus on Clouds true identity. On the other hand, I think that not doing so kinda clogs the narrative since Cloud will have “two” moments in part 3. What are your thoughts? Great video btw.
@@e.t.gohome8042 I wouldn't frame it as breaking down twice, instead more of going through a process. Like his experience in the lifestream will greatly help strengthen his mental capacity to finally look and face the truth once he gets to the Forgotten Capital.
Would love to see Sephiroth overcome Genova. Her arrogance that she can control all. That sephiroth has become greater than her akin to Clyde and Ultima. But still wants to carry on destroying as she once did.
I fully 100% believe that the Aerith at the end of Rebirth is Jenova, and I can prove it. "Those you fear, those you love, those you hate, Jenova will become anyone to fool her prey." They drive this home a lot in rebirth. Everything that "Aerith" says to cloud at the end, is what the real Aerith has already said to him in Remake AND in Rebirth. "And if I said I wasnt?" Aerith says this with the exact same inflection when they were at the park in remake and cloud asks her if she's going to be okay going home. "Dont worry, its like a second home." She says this the exact same way in Remake when cloud has a dream at Aeriths house and he talks to her outside, referring to the shinra HQ building, and thats when she says, "dont worry, its like a second home." Everything she says, she has already said it, showing Jenovas mimickry. Another piece of proof is: The real Aerith just got done telling cloud in the sleeping forest to not focus on Sephiroth, cause she's the only one that can stop him, that he needs to focus on himself and find the real him. So at the end, when "Aerith" makes cloud "promise to stop sephiroth," it doesnt make sense cause she just told him she is the only one that can stop him. And that is why im 100% convinced that the Aerith at the end is not our real Aerith, and in fact is Jenova pretending to be Aerith, mimicking her by using Clouds memories of her to shape the illusion.
Aerith mentions the city of the Cetra in the French version and the Japanese version. Aerith never mentioned before that she will need to pray to stop the meteor. Aerith doesn't ask Cloud to promise anything in the Japanese or even in the French version. If Aerith is Jenova or an illusion, there’s absolutely no reason to show her saying goodbye when there’s no one there to see her. Moreover, why would Jenova say 'Goodbye'?
@RebirthFacts I still think it's jenova. Why would she tell cloud not worry about sephiroth and that only she can stop him and to find clouds true self, only to completely do a 180 an hour later and say screw finding your true self cloud, promise you'll stop sephiroth? The other statements she makes are the exact same as in remake. I can't ignore that. And I can't ignore her making him promise to stop sephiroth when she just told him at the sleeping forest to not worry about him. Sorry, but I'm not changing my opinions. We will just have to wait until part 3. 🤝
Best Breakdown I have seen so far! One question, why did Aerith didn't questioned Cloud holding the Black Materia, what do you think is gonna be the payoff from the ending? It was Jenova/Sephiroth or she knows the time-line through white whispers connection and wants Cloud to follow the events and delivering the black materia to "Top-Half" Sephiroth?
I still don't understand what the purpose of Remake's story was if they weren't going to actually change anything in Rebirth. There was such a focus on them changing the timeline with the whispers and multiple characters remembering the original game's story. The ending of Remake even states that the future is now unknown, but we got the exact same story in Rebirth, just more fleshed out.
The purpose was to bring back Zack and possibly Aerith's survival that they were teasing relentlessly. If she will be gone anyway then you are right. The whole new setup was a waste of time, money and a mockery of Aerith fans who will probably leave SE for good after this.
Yall crack me up 😂 aerith isn't gonna live. They're retelling the story while also keeping the main points the same. They've said over and over they're not changing the story
The point could just be simply that no matter what they do she dies. Think Time Machine the movie. He goes back in time dozens of times only to fail to save her every time because it was just meant to be. Now it is to those who remain to come to terms with her death. That is not saying nothing will change either. Cloud's guilt being a major one. It could be even worse than before or better.
Both scenes happened. Cloud blocks Sephiroth, and Aerith still dies. The only difference is Sephiroth didn't stab Aerith, Cloud did. Cloud blocks the shot, the sword lands on the ground next to Cloud, then Sephiroth makes him pick up the sword and kill Aerith. Watch the scene again and it makes sense. The party was blocked off by the whispers, so they only have Cloud's fractured recollection of what happened. As with Nibelhiem, the player is presented with scenes that they view as objective only for it to be revealed that it’s the result of Cloud’s broke mind. All of Rebirth, especially in the Temple of the Ancients, showed Cloud losing control of his body. Sephiroth calls Cloud a puppet both before and immediately after Aerith’s death, also saying. “How can you ever hope to see the truth with such clouded eyes,” once again referring to his broke mind. When it's revealed that Cloud killed Aerith, it will be a HUGE gut punch and possibly even more impactful than the original. THAT is how you make Aerith's death hit again, even for long time fans. And if this doesn’t happen, then Square knows I’m onto them and they changed it.
How are you figuring that cloud stabbed her? I’m not seeing it. It is weird though that in first shot of materia bouncing, she’s still falling, and you’d think Sephiroth would be right behind her, but he’s not. Unless he had already walked away and it took her a bit to fall, but that would also be weird if it took cloud that long to turn around.
Actually, makes sense and fits with the rest of the scenes where Cloud goes weird and starts stabbing people saying that it's not death, it's just homecoming. I rewatched the scene, and it's true, Sephiroth was never close to Aerith after Cloud blocked him, but the sword was, and there is a cut of the scene, so a lot of things could have happened in that span of the moment. Also, if you watch Tifa's perspective, Cloud has blood in his dominant hand, as if he was the one who stabbed Aerith, so Tifa is wondering if Cloud did it in one of those moments where he seems to be possesed by Sephiroth. That would make a lot of sense given that it was shown earlier in Gongaga, then in Nibelheim and latter in Temple of the Ancients. But is not the first time it is shown, actually it was also shown in Remake, when they followed Jhonny, Cloud was about to kill him and Tifa stopped him. Aerith saw the same after Cloud defeated Reno on the church, he was about to kill Reno and Aerith tried to stop him, but the whispers intervened. So Cloud going murderous was kind of hinted on Remake and fully shown in Rebirth. That would also explain why Sephiroth wanted to take control of the whispers and doesn't seem to be doing anything with them in Rebirth, he simply needed to avoid the whispers to intervene in the Aerith's death scene in order to further control and torture Cloud.
The huge flaw in this is Sephiroth pulls the sword from Aerith/the ground and it has blood on it. Even if this is true, having Cloud kill Aerith even if possessed destroys the story. I don’t see how it could continue if that was the case. Cloud wouldn’t forgive himself and neither would Tifa in my opinion.
@@kalanbell1057 The thing is, in Nibelheim, they show how Cloud acts and moves like Sephiroth, as if he IS Sephiroth. In the scene where Tifa, Yuffie and Cloud are going to the Nibelheim reactor, the reach the mako spring from the flashback and Cloud says verbatim the words Sephiroth said on the flashback scene, and from Tifa's perspective, is like Cloud IS Sephiroth. So in the Aerith death scene, if you look closely, Sephiroth never moves from where he lands after Cloud deflecs him. The scene goes like this. - Cloud is struggling to not hit Aerith with the sword. - Sephiroth starts to come down with his sword ready to impale Aerith. - Cloud manages to break free, and moves to deflect Sephiroth. - They get locked on place, having eye to eye contact all the time, and then Cloud deflects Sephiroth. - Masamune lands just a little ahead of where Cloud is, which is at the back of Aerith. Cloud has his back to Aerith's back. - Sephiroth lands ahead, with his back to both Cloud and Aerith and the Masamune between them. - Cut to the party outside, now they are allowed to enter the temple, but we know it takes time and is not visible where Aerith, Cloud and Sephiroth are. - Next the camera is showing Aerith's back from the Masamune´s perspective, Cloud is not seen, then a glitch like when Cloud is having his headaches and then cuts to the Masamune with blood showing and Sephiroth pulling it out of Aerith's back as he smiles. This is where they are playing with you, it was not Sephiroth, it was Cloud being possesed like in the Temple of the Ancients, when he went murderous saying that it's not death, it's homecoming. - Next scene after that is when Aerith falls and plays similar to OG, but now Sephiroth has his Masamune again, still facing away from the whole scene, which is the opposite from OG, where he is literally facing to Aerith and Cloud. So, it kind of fits, but then again, this is assuming that those "murderous" sections shown earlier where for nothing. Granted, Nomura's style of storytelling is that it has to evoke feelings, even if the scene or whatever you introduced earlier is meant to be forgotten, because the emotion was already conveyed, like "don't care about details, it happened and you felt it, that's all you need to remember, it doesn't have to make sense". Now, granted, Rebirth is not being directed by Nomura, but he IS the one guiding Nojima on how things have to play out and making sure certain parts have the story elements he wants, It's because of him we got the whispers in the first place...but I digress. The point is that, with what is show, it's has a point, I'm not saying that it will be that way, but knowing how Nomura and Kitase like things, might not be too farfetched.
Here is my theory that FF7 is heavily influenced by the Bible, the Human experience, which is mimicking ideas from the “other proposed FF7” Xenogears: Sephiroth is the biblical fallen one, the metaphor of what happens to those who seek knowledge to the extent of gaining even knowledge that hurts us (learning about his background and not learning about the love that causes his creation). Cloud (me, you, us) desires to be perfect and like his role model at the cost of hurting those we loved in our childhood, (personally) thinking that we will be able to better our hometown friends and family [classic Joseph Campbell’s “Hero’s Journey”]. Aerith is the “messiah” of this game, all knowing, all benevolent, the one who is all good and shows the protagonist how to live and the first character to show him affection. The whispers are a biblical idea of spirit: holy and evil spirits, vying for us, the protagonist, to follow the good white spirits and reject the wicked black influence. Every moment of our wakefulness we are charged with two options: 1) be selfless and be obedient to the essence of “Good” or 2) be selfish and be disobedient to the essence of “Good” essentially, choosing to be a child forever a parasite (the way Sephiroth exists in the life stream). Sorry I typed all this during those building a chair scenes. Felt like an ad and got carried away with typing out my pet theory thanks to my adhd. I think we who are strongly drawn to this story understand the concept of sacrifice to a cellular, spiritual level of the idea of being saved by the sacrifice of someone kind, benevolent, and loving to us in the way that we can never give back to the ones that brought us to life except to love others and perpetuate being good to others. Added on thoughts: The new trilogy is called a remake, rebirth, re”something” it’s an addition to the original three disc game in the same vein as Star wars new trilogy is just part of the story. So this continuation of the story of PS1 is basically Sephiroth trying to change his destiny for the new generation of gamers. Time is rhyme that not all things are exactly repeated but rhyme with past events. This instance of Sephiroth is of the same essence of a fallen one. A Lucifer type (biblically beautiful and perfect in his ways) wants to prevent his destined downfall (the PS1 timeline, book of Revelation) by influencing Cloud (you the reader) with the black whispers trying to convince you that bad is good and good is bad, by appealing to your pathos through his sad unloved background as a created unloved lab specimen.
Another Max theory that Aerith is Jenova. Why did Red sense Aerith if she’s Jenova? He was close to Aerith. Aerith told Cloud, “Whatever happens don’t blame yourself” at their spot, because she knows he would blame himself. You are focusing part 3 on AC, okay ask yourself why did Aerith give Cloud her empty materia? Did Cloud have her empty materia in AC? Some of the story line might be the same as AC but it’s definitely not going to be the same as the movie. I will come back here after part 3 is released to prove you were wrong. And the people who claim that the empty materia is the black one, listen closely you can hear the materias click as they touch each other when Cloud puts in back in his pocket. Do I believe Aeirth is dead maybe but I will never believe she is Jenova and there is a reason why she gave Cloud her materia. There are so many things you’re missing in your theory. You all about Cloud grief and he can’t love Tifa because of his grief. Part 3 won’t be like AC.
If Zack is in the same place as Aerith, than he's pretty much been dead, the whole time, right? The whole thing about Zack being alive is pretty much just a Red Herring than.
I think Zack's part is to help give more context to how the lifestream works, and he'll help in Cloud's mental battles with Sephiroth and Jenova, much like the ending for Rebirth.
the ending sucks, the game was great when it shows what it is as it is, we got a very beautiful moment and very nostalgic, this time around they tried so hard to make future plot twists, so in the end we indeed got confused and the scene itself is not as strong
I will say, thanks for helping me find some good in 7 rebirth's ending. It really rubbed me the wrong way. But I think we can all agree... the final boss after Jenova is fucking bullshit!
After all this months I'm finally getting to cope with the ending, It was just too much shoved down your throat... The smiley Aerith from the doomed timeline is too creepy though. LUL
What is your theory on the ending and how part 3 ends?? Subscribe for more!
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Bro...Yuffie and Vincent were both optional in the OG and now both tied to Deep Ground. What if... there's a fight with them together, fighting Nero!? 🤯 That'd be SO perfect!
Tifa was actually seeing the world overlap, that's why she was able to see both the real world and the world Cloud's mind was in. The rainbowy effect signifies world divergence in the Lifestream. Tifa can see what Cloud sees because of her exposure to the Lifestream from when she fell into it in Gongaga.
As for Sephiroth, the reason why they kept him vaguely alive at the end of Advent Children is because they were keeping things just open enough for a final chapter in the original compilation. Sephiroth still existing and Genesis still being alive was supposed to lead-up to one more harrah for the VII universe, but resources and other project focuses never allowed it to come to fruition.
Wrong… its all genesis
It's genesises all the way down
I can’t wait for the second Genesis and Sephiroth duel… this time with fatal consequences 🗿
I literally hope he shows up, and as soon as he goes to talk, sephiroth just ends him immediately in a "dont waste my time" kind of way. Would be amazing.
Wrong... it's all mia, mario
Genesis is going to summon the power of the planet to create the Loveless Cinematic Universe.
I do believe this is a sequel in a sense that Sephiroth is seemingly course correcting where he went wrong in the original games. Maybe he successfully reconstructs his body in FF7AC and that's where he starts planning. I'm not sure. All I know is I am so appreciative this was the route they went. I love having these questions, I love theorizing over a game that I should have most of the answers for because it already exists. Embracing the revisions as he calls it instead of lamenting that we're not getting a 1 for 1 story just feels great. No remake has been able to pull off what FF7 has done.
Why I think we're in sequel territory: At the end of og Holy and the lifestream meld together before connecting with meteor followed by a bright flash and credits. I think Holy and the lifestream melding is the catalyst for Remake. Imo, Holy is that rainbow effect you see throughout the story..when Zack decides left or right, when Seph is info dumping Cloud in the lifestream, in Aerith's dream, when Aerith puts the real Holy materia in her ribbon, and when Seph is above city of the ancients and the sky opens up. Holys' whole deal is to get rid of everything bad for the planet....meteor, weapon and possibly the humans. So, what's going on? Holy is experiencing and judging humanity via the lifestream to see if they are worthy to exist. The fly in the ointment? Seph/jenova cells(geo stigma) is still in the lifestream. So you have this tug of war: Sephiroth trying to show the ugliness of humanity and Aerith going nononono, there's still good stuff here!!!
I know Hamaguchi is writing it...but I'm going full Nomura with this theory. 36:49 you can really see it here with the rainbow in the clouds...what comes out afterwards? Lifestream.
Wow, that is a brilliant theory, never even considered anything along those lines!
@MrLightlike78 I want to see a breakdown of this fascinating theory💪
I'm subbing mostly because your voice is perfect for storytelling. But the analysis is amazing too.
I feel like these theories actively disregard Advent Children. Cloud seeing Aerith isn't something exclusive to this game. He sees Aerith when he's driving to the forgotten capitol, he sees her again when fighting Bahamut, and Cloud sees her and Zack again at the end of the movie. Tifa on the other hand only looks at Cloud. Nobody else reacts to Aerith and Zack being in the church at the end of the movie other than the kids. Aerith likely has some vague control over who sees her. And in the original game Cloud sees her when if he goes to the church after she passes. This really isn't something new this game came up with.
24:10 to 24:35 omg you hit the nail in the head. Wonderful writing 🥺
I adore the ending so much. This is my theory:
It’s lifestream Aerith. That’s why Nanaki can sense her too, if she was just in clouds head he wouldn’t sense her. I also don’t think she’s Jenova because I don’t think jenova would say “goodbye” like that at the end.
How is she appearing to Cloud though? Maybe it’s a function of Holy. Before handing Cloud the white materia in the church cloud says “but your mom gave that to you” and Aerith replies “this isn’t about me though, it’s about saving the world, *and you*.
If it is because of the white materia then that could also be how aeriths mom appeared to her in traces of two pasts after her death.
I think Aerith did this as a Hail Mary to prevent clouds mind from breaking completely, which would have been an early checkmate for Sephiroth in this 4D chess game between Sephiroth and Aerith. That’s why Sephiroth says “that shouldn’t be here, very poor form” when he sees the white materia in the sleeping forest and also why he says “I underestimated you” to Aerith. It’s because she subverted sephiroths plan of breaking cloud in that moment.
When Aerith says those lines to cloud at the end about how it’s a second home to her and how she’ll keep praying to stop meteor etc, we as the players can understand that she’s actually talking about the lifestream. However she’s saying it to cloud as if shes talking about the forgotten capital, as if that is the second home where she’ll continue praying, it’s because she’s coddling him, protecting his mind from the reality that she’s dead. She has to sell him a story for why she’s not joining the party onward. That’s why cloud even questions it one time and says “but what if something happens?”, and she says “then I’ll send up smoke!”, and he’s like “I’ll keep an eye out”.
He fully believes she’s alive and merely continuing her prayers at the forgotten capital. And she’s helping him believe this lie not because she wants to but because she has to for the sake of keeping clouds fragile mind intact just a little bit longer, all in an effort to defeat Sephiroth.
Love this. Can’t wait for part 3!
Seeing Aeriths death from Clouds perspective is so much more context than we as observers could have ever hoped for. One of the best lore expansions in FF history.
Imo its jenova..it didnt shows aerith's mouth saying 'goodbye'..its the flower behind that zoom out that represent aerith
This is also what Schrodingersbabyseal thinks.
@@mobiusnnaito2543 I think that’s quite a stretch. After her death scene whenever we see Aerith talking from the Sephiroth fight to the lake scene to the very last scene we’ve seen her mouth moving and saying the words that she says, but you think the last line is the flowers behind her saying it and not her because we couldn’t see her mouth? No chance. It didn’t show her mouth because they wanted the last shot to be her looking up at the party as they fly away to continue their journey. She won’t be joining them but like the flowers that represent her she’s part of the planet/lifestream and will still do everything she can to help.
Great summary. Well done. I love this game so much and your skill to see the smallest of details makes your playthrough one of the verry best.
Here is a fun theory I'd like to throw your way.
Play through the Final Boss fight again, but imagine it takes place in 3 different realities.
At the start of the fight when you fight Jenova, no matter what you do, Cloud will always be the last target engaged with Jenova before you defeat her. (Reality 1)
When the dust settles and your allies re-enter, think about how they talk, they don't speak as if someone was just stabbed, they talk like they are defeating a final evil and everything is alright, this is the reality where Cloud did save Aerith (Reality 2) Also consider how the arena is falling apart and it gives this "final final boss" vibe like they are going to defeat Jenova/Sephiroth there and then
Then Cloud disappears (Everyone HP/MP is restored a very sneaky way to hide the fact that we are fighting within different realities) and fights with Zack in an alternate "falling reality" where they fight Jenova at the same time (Reality 1) is fighting Jenova and then of course Zack and Cloud fighting Sephiroth seperately but still in sync, it's not something you can just keep swapping between each fight with but at that point I imagine it like this when Cloud and Zack are fighting together they are fighting in (Reality 2), when Zack is by himself he is in (Reality 3) and when Cloud and Aerith fight they are in (Reality 3)
But basically think about the cutscene before the rest of the gang fights Jenova/Bahamut Arisen (Reality 1), they say Cloud disappeared however it is never made clear if this is him disappearing after (Reality 2) or if he had disappeared when the dust settled and he wasn't there.
At the end though when it comes to fighting "Sephiroth Reborn" who exist within all 3 (Realities) I do believe the intent is them fighting them all at the same time, which I feel is further proved by how Cloud and Zack both have access to their Synergy attacks even though they aren't within the same realm but the idea is they all al fighting Sephiroth at the same time and are so in tune that they are still able to synergize their attacks even through other realities.
Another thing to consider which I feel would solidify this theory is that we learn that realities that pretty much hit a "Dead End" are erased from existance, in this case (Reality 2) and (Reality 3), even though they have to fight and win against Jenova so he doesn't overpower (Reality 1) the sad truth becomes saving Aerith in (Reality 2) leads to a Dead End event because without her being in the Lifestream and able to interact with Holy she would be unable to save the planet at the end of the game. Similarly (Reality 3) is already a dead reality that they are fighting in, it is just a space in which Cloud, Zack and Aerith are capable of interacting with one another.
Finally, there is no way Aerith would lie to Cloud like that, why would she say "I saw what you did back there Cloud, Thank you." Why would she lie to Cloud about him saving her in another reality? Aerith realizes that with the changes made Cloud did defy reality in one timeleine where he did save her but the cruel reality becomes that in order for her to fulfil her destiny her life needs to end there, and knowing that it is a dead end timeleine she continues to fight on to point Cloud back towards the proper destiny/reality.
If I could ask the director one question I would ask him if the Final Fight takes place in multiple realities and if Cloud's allies that we fight with are from 2 different realities, one where she was saved, and one where she died.
Since one last thing to consider when they fight Bahamut Arisen, the platform never changes, nothing is falling apart, reality isn't imploding on itself unlike the fight with Jenova Lifeclinger where everything is breaking apart like reality is disappearing in a sense. Another thing to take note is how the platform for both the last phase of Jenova Lifeclinger and Sephiroth Arisen are completely different it gives off heavy vibes that the Whispers knowing that this reality where Aerith was saved was to unstable and removed them from that reality and placed them into the reality where they need to be.
This is why this ending pisses me off because it doesn't have to be this much.
i hate it already
Great theory
Omg this is too convoluted man 😭
I like listening to all the theories, but you are breaking some very awesome thoughts down. I also hope that when we get the collectors edition of this game and believe me, I will be buying the collectors edition, that it is ridiculous and comes with a copy of Advent children or a download code to do so. I know a couple of the voice actors personally and they can’t tell me anything obviously but I am so excited to see this final chapter come to life. It’s very personal for me and a few different levels. This story really helped me cope with loss way back in 97.
I always love your film and cinematography breakdowns and i especially love how thorough and detail-oriented this theory is, bringing in the visual elements, other ff7 media, the eagle-eye on the narrative, etc. Just a really fantastic, satisfying, and insightful watch! Thank you!!
First off, I don't think there can be any doubt that this is a sequel. From cloud having visions of things that hadn't even taken place yet, especially in Remake (Sector 7 plate falling and Aerith's death just to name a couple). Aerith and Sephiroth also have clear knowledge of the events in the OG. There is far too much dialogue pointing towards it being a sequel. For example, Cloud said to Sephiroth that he (Cloud) had already killed him. Whereas Sephiroth in the OG had no idea who cloud was at first. Second, Sephiroth said to Cloud that he is too weak to save anyone, not even himself. He said this right at the moment Cloud first meets Aerith in Remake. A clear nod to the fact he failed to save Aerith the first time around. This is just a couple of examples. Plus all of the talk of changing destiny. It is beyond obvious to me that this is a sequel.
Second, my theory is, I think the developers are trying to lead us up the garden path. They're using our knowledge of the OG against us. This time, in the end, Cloud isn't an unreliable narrator, he is the only reliable narrator. At least as far as the ending of Rebirth is concerned. Cloud is seeing the truth, the others aren't. Cloud is the only person that can see the rift in the sky at the end. Cloud is the only person that gets through the whispers in the Forgotten Capital. Which don't let the others through until Cloud deflected Sephiroth's attack. Otherwise they would see Cloud deflect the attack and know the truth. It is also reflected in gameplay with everyone having their limit breaks except Cloud. At first we think it is because Cloud is the unreliable narrator, and he thinks she is alive. But this time, I think it is because Cloud does in fact know the truth, it is the others that are unreliable. It is why in the boss fight that follows afterwards, The others mention Cloud not being there, and he only re-joins them later. He was in another world that has only began merging with the one the rest of the party is in.
I think this plays nicely into the trilogy being a sequel. Sephiroth knows his plans failed in the OG. So this time around, rather than trying to break Cloud, he is trying to mess with the others in the party, to make them think Cloud has gone insane. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Rather than try to mess with Cloud himself, he is trying to break the others and their trust in Cloud. So when Cloud stepped through the whispers at the end, he stepped into a different world. At the point he deflects Sephiroth's attack on Aerith, he unknowingly began merging the worlds. The world in which he Saved Aerith, and the world that the others are still in, where Aerith dies. "And so it begins. A confluence of worlds...and emotions." So the relationship between Cloud and the others is going to be tested in part 3. Nothing can divide friendships like your friend not believing the truth. I think this is all one big meta commentary on us, the player being the unreliable narrator this time around. We know what happened, or what was supposed to happen. At least we think we do, but we don't.
Cloud said he already killed Sephiroth because he already did in the OG as well. Cloud kills Sephiroth in the true Nibelheim flashback events revealed in the lifestream sequence with tifa. This is not indicative of a sequel, and it wouldn’t make sense if cloud remembered end of OG. Aerith and Sephiroth have the knowledge of the ancients which includes oracle like powers and visions.
@PhilipHarts sephrioth gives cloud the ability to see the timelines at the end of his speech about the world's and the planets and in the final battle with cloud and aerith cloud say he can't hurt him anymore and he knows the truth now
This is bless, this video dropping. Stoked man, digging in
Cloud doesn’t just see Aerith in AC because of guilt it’s because her consciousness lives on inside him. That’s why she appears to him during the end credits of AC.
Yes but her function in the story is to represent Cloud’s guilt, which he lets go and forgives himself for in the film, letting Aerith go and moving on to live his life.
Fenrir the wolf represents Cloud’s guilt. Notice that the wolf is absent once he speaks with Vincent and Marlene because he begins to forgive himself.
And to add to your point about Aerith representing his guilt. This makes sense as well because Cloud can never look at Aerith. He’s too ashamed. When he tries in the Forgotten Capital the moment with Aerith ends. But his able to use her assist defeating Bahamut and then at the end he’s able to look at her and Zack as he waves goodbye. Cloud also smiles here.
Have you ever considered the idea of two endings ? the Lake scene and the Final cutscene ?
Thank you so much for sharing! You did a great job.
None of these characters are allowed to move on. We the fans aren’t even allowed that. Jenova grips us all.
didn't expect to finally have my moment of grief over Aerith this morning after a year. Thanks for this Phil, it's excellent insight as always. I feel like understanding cinematic language goes along way in the end of this game.
So glad you enjoyed it Bee, thanks for watching, the more I think about the game the more I love it.
Hey I saw you in the crowd at Tribeca! Nice to see I was correct
It's definitely hard to say what exactly is going on with Aerith at the end. I like your explanation. A lot of it makes total sense. I'm still leaning towards the Ending Aerith being from the Lifestream and possibly one other place. We may be seeing more than one Aerith at the end.
Ooo yeah, the whole lifestream white bit where she ponders if she could use avatars like Seph does. She cites not wanting to do this as she wants Cloud to see her...but it makes you wonder if maybe she figured out how she could do this using her own soul/ body w/e.
@@MrLightlike78 Yeah, she talks about it in the Maiden Who Travels the Planet. Wishing she could do the things that she does in Rebirth. The final date and such.
Phenom video and editing! Thank you
"Cloud! You have to save Her!" - not something you say about someone who is already dead
The life stream is the quantum field where time exist forever and at a moment. Sephiroth is a consciousness that exist in quantum field. Not existing but present.
Cloud is just schrodingers cat. When observed by Sephiroth, he breaks down into a state of being cloud or not cloud.
The black materia is the equation that calculates how gravity fits into the quantum field theory (which we dont have because it's special).
Sephiroth needs that equation so he can collapse the quantum field (lifestream) into a form that is existing in the material world.
Yeah Final Fantasy 7 is just someones wierd explanation of quantum field theory.
Oh also, white materia is hope (a subset of consciousness)
This was one of the most convincing arguments I've seen about the direction of the Remake series. Maybe the most convincing. I definitely think there will be some changes to how events play out and certainly to the ending. But given your arguments around cinematic language and creating a more complete story that supports the conpilation, I could definitely see any changes reflecting that approach. Excellent video. I'm subscribing.
5:10 The Static is not hallucinations, It Appears in remake during a Scene cloud isn't even in
Dude. This was so well broken down - thank you for such a clear, rational explanation of your thoughts. I always saw the ending as "Cloud is losing his shit," but I didn't pick up on how we were seeing things from Tifa's perspective vs. Cloud's. I'm so excited for Part 3, and I'm trying hard not to think about how long we have to wait for its release 🥺
This is a great video, I appreciate that you're very focused on the meaning of narrative decisions in the remake trilogy, as that's clearly the level the devs are on but most of the fans aren't. But I think two of the ideas you put forth here don't cohere very well. On the one hand you say they want to say something with these decisions given the cinematic language and writing choices, but on the other hand you say they want to tie up the remake trilogy as a complete package containing all the lore of the other FFVII compilation games. I don't see these as being mutually compatible for most players of the remake trilogy, i.e. people like me who didn't bother with the rest of the FFVII content.
For example, after analyzing how the subjective perspective of the ending frames Aerith's interactions with Cloud as a manifestation of his guilt, you suggest that Deep Ground should make an appearance in part 3, but what meaning would that contribute to the main story or the characters besides very literal, rote revenge for Yuffie? Even within Rebirth itself, when Zack's Crisis Core character motto is interjected in the middle of Rebirth's rollercoaster ending, what does that mean for Cloud's guilt or anything else happening on screen? Why should I care about Zack's embracing his dreams as an enforcer of a colonizing megalomaniac corporation that we saw 30 hours back hugely damaged his hometown? Because the ending invokes this multiversal perspective repeatedly, it's no longer just Cloud's subjective experience. Portraying Zack in the middle of all of this invokes everything else about him so far in the story, including his questionable service to Shinra. Zack's presence turns the ending into a thematic mess of ideas. I personally think this thematic noise is done intentionally to breed disorientation in players, to capture that feeling of the original of not being really sure if Aerith was fully dead or not. But it comes at the sacrifice of obscuring what they're trying to say, as evidenced by you being one of the few voices championing this meaning-based analysis of the game.
Incredible comment
I'm waiting for Part 3's DXRacer chair before sitting down
i agree. The ambiguity at the end gives the fans something to ponder, talk about and theorize over. There would be no conversation if it were clearly depicted whats happening. Now we have a few years to chat and test our theories just like in remake. Its a great way to prolong the experience beyond hte literal game
Has anyone noticed the background of clouds lifestream scene is the same as the sky in "zacks timeline"?
THANK YOU for bringing FFX up, that is probably a key element that most are missing about this,Nojima was writer of X he himself believes that Both X and VII happens in the same world (heck Shinra is literally in the photo in remake) it's not surprising he is using rules he made for that world here IT's literally how the idea of dreams and such works in FFX (without getting into spoilers but if you remember THAT twist everything basically clears up),most just think this is some multiverse shenanigans without realizing how deep the connection with X is in this case. Without even bringing the parallels that this remakes keeps on giving they clearly wanted to cement that connection between the two.
This. All of this.
Agreed with everything you said in the video! Especially loved how much you pointed out Tifa’s POV during the ending, I think a lot of people overlook how well it was done and what the implications are. I think it was a brave ending too, and some of the critics are too shortsighted.
It’s been my hope but I think it is becoming more likely after the Rebirth final boss sequence, that Aerith and Zack will fight a version of Jenova in the Lifestream, probably while the rest of the party is fighting her too. It would be an especially cathartic close to Aerith’s personal story as a Cetra and her “The source… of everything” line in Remake. Ever Crisis I think is hinting to something like that too with Jenova NUCLEUS.
A huge proportion of all of this, I think, is to create speculation on Aerith's fate. Back in 1997, I remember being on internet forums and in school discussing her fate, if she was really dead, how we could get her back - and I think this depiction was intentionally crafted to create similar (but more modern) discussions through the medium of metanarrative. I honestly think it's brilliant
See my interpretation is that she tapped into the mako inside Cloud. Through the same manipulations of Jenova/Sephiroth. I think she is now his guiding voice, not Zack. Shes dead but she guides him even now.
If life is energy, then aerith could still still connect to cloud. Think mycelim or even electricity through steel. Electricity can transfer from 1 steel bar to another even without touching, it'll just be weaker. Even trees can communicate with trees within a short distance by sending signals from root to root through the soil itself.
It's also possible that the reason only cloud can communicate with aerith and Zack is because he's the only one whose had extreme exposure to mako. Which is the liquid for of the lifestream. Meaning cloud literally has a high concentrated amount of the lifestream inside him.
Want to know what happened at the end of Rebirth? Well, it's simple: the writers put the party in a situation very similar to Empire Strikes Back and similar second volume titles. They added a little bit of artistic license and expression. And then players didn't get exactly what they wanted, when they wanted. So all the entitled "fans" and "critics" rated the game unfairly because they "didn't like the ending"-- sabotaging the game from achieving the awards it deserves. That's what happened.
so astrobot won because its easier to understand lol
@Neuvari Exactly.
You know, if the people most predisposed to like your product find it disappointing, maybe they aren't the problem.
The part where cloud is holding Aerith and he is glitching between his monologue and his new perspective. In the new perspective, Cloud is crying. Expressing so much emotion as he holds a still living and smiling Aerith. But when it glitches to the monologue, where we remember from the original, Cloud expresses words of grief, emotion, and sadness, , in Rebirth's iteration, the glitch, there are no tears and his lips are moving but there is no sound. As Sephiroth says, a puppet, void of emotion (no tears), and empty words (voice muted).
With your theory, it makes more sense. The version of Cloud facing his traumas, the guilt of not saving Aerith is the glitch. Its what Tifa see. Its Tifa's reality. Its the version of Cloud Tifa hasn't mentally rescued yet. And then there is Cloud's new perspective. The lie. The fabrication. Its the version of Cloud that is expressive and caring. This lie is shielding him from the grief and traumas of guilt. I swear this new iteration of FF7 through the Re:trilogy. I have no words. I cant wait to play the final installment when it comes out.
Isn't rebirth and the remake the sephiroth from after advent children?
That is a theory, but no confirmation as of yet. I speak on this theory in the video and a cool way they could confirm it if they decide to. But Sephiroth and Aerith both having more knowledge than they should was always a part of the original, so it doesn’t change too much.
I think so because I remember they said that the remake series is a sequel to Advent Children.
Great summery and observations 👌🏻
I think the aerith that helps cloud during the sepheroth fight is the lifestream aerith, or the real one. And the one you see sitting next to him at the end, and by the tiny bronco is actually jenova manipulating him for a total break. Up until that point she kept telling him to stop fighting and focus on healing himself. At the end when he swears revenge, she makes him promise. Which is the exact opposite of what the real aerith wanted while she was alive.
Aerith Told Cloud Something on long the lines "You haven't meet the future me but when you do you'll like her." After the beach fight so maybe that Aerith is doing what she can to help stop Sephiroth. The White Whispers are her's and the Black are his. Aerith only presents herself to Cloud he is in tune enough to see her Red Xlll got touched by her and he felt her and called out to her. But I mean who really knows where they are going to go with it but if I'm right you heard it here 1st. lol
Great video as always. The Jenova theory is fun, but I’m not completely sold on it just yet. I think the seeds are there, very intentionally, but not necessarily because it’s true. Sephiroth will surely try to convince Cloud (and the player) of it like he did all throughout Rebirth with Tifa. He tried to convince Cloud Tifa isn’t Tifa, even though she is. I think he’s doing the same with Aerith. He desperately needs Cloud to distrust the actual lifestream Aerith. And perhaps Jenovaerith is a part of that plan. My point being that it works with or without one. So in that sense having it solely being J-Aerith at the end does kind of unnecessarily undermine the emptional impact of the ending.
Side note-Even if there is a Jenovaerith, it can’t just be that. We know theres also a Lifestream Aerith, as seen in AC and parts of Rebirth. Of course there could be both, but that raises questions like why wouldn’t LS-Aerith show up and tell cloud about J-Aerith and try to dissuade him immediately? If she’s truly omniscient she should know about it. (TBF maybe she will in part 3 or we just have to suspend our disbelief when it comes to omniscience. If Obi wan always showed up and helped Luke, there wouldn’t be much of a story)
I cover this in the video, I say that it is advent children style Aerith.
9:34 was that Wing-Chin? 😂😂😂
Great video I agree with you Phillip. You laid out a solid outline. Sad to see in the comments so many people in denial like cloud, even in denial like players of the original game. It’s very meta that players still can’t accept she’s gone. Poetic.
Forgive me if this was already mentioned but I just noticed that Sephiroth mimics how Masamune was wielding the Masamune. I wonder if it is also a sword style as well. It would be interesting if the Masamune has some sort of sentience.
If there were to be any shred of redemption for Sephiroth... I picture the final epilogue to be him sitting off alone at some distant vantage within the lifestream, more or less atoning and thinking. And then childhood Aerith comes up to him and shares a few tender words and asks him to play with her. And he cracks a bit of a smile. And that's a wrap. I don't know... Some would call it maudlin, but hey, if properly earned and executed well...
Thank you, brother!!!
About that creepy piece of music that plays when Aerith appears to Cloud at the Forgotten Capital, we actually hear that music at the end of Chapter 2 when the Midgardsomr swallows Cloud and Sephiroth appears to save him. When Sephiroth is staring down at Cloud that music plays.
Although I am sort of hoping they do a "happy ever after" ending (deluded I know!) I have to say this is an incredibly well explained and reasoned explanation of what happened and likely to happen next. Bravo 👏
Great video! So curious how, if it’s not a sequel, they’ll tie it into AC without feeling like the culmination of this new decade-long saga is homework to go watch AC again.
I think I it can be both a ending to everything with Sephiroth for that sequel satisfaction, while telling the original story better and revising the whole compilation to finally be one cohesive consistent feeling work instead of several stories that feel very separate in style. I talk about this a little at the end.
I remember reading an article about how the director had a tough time deciding between Tifa and Arieth to be the heroine. Personally, I think either of those strong ladies could’ve just moved on and found another man. I mean Vincent is not bad or even Genesis would’ve been interesting. But someone at Square Enix suggested that he kill one of the girls, and that’s how the story ended up the way it did. Ever since then every time I come across a character that’s so likable but could be in conflict with the hero/heroine’s relationship I know that s/he will die for sure.
Great video. 👍Really appreciate it.
I think your views on the ending are some of the closest so far. The multiverse theories are understandable from the perspective of someone new to the story, but as someone very familiar with the original, I see how this interpretation fits so well with the original narrative while portraying the deeper metaphysical elements so well that weren't a part of the original. The 3rd part is going to be phenomenal.
...Alternate realities, of course, is the other option. I think the Re triology is designed to answer the question: What if Aerith could be saved?
Hey Phil, great video. Have you considered making a video analysing the ending fight sequences? I feel like a lot happens and I would personally be interested in a play by play of the fights.
The DXracer box had a worse fate than Aerith jokes aside I love this point of view I've been saying for a while we shouldn't look at everything logically its a fantasy story you have to see it more artistically
LOL true 🗿
Thank la for watching!
Cloud is Mentally Broken, but timelines are converging, you're hust trying to say Aerith still died
In Remake 3, i really want Evil Cloud boss fight and Genesis cameo
What you chose to show while giving the spoiler warning was crazy lmfao
I played the og tho so im good
Here's the thing that really throws me off, I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on this. Why did we see a bullet going directly towards Zack's head which would have certainly killed him on the spot, then get swooped away by the whisper wind at the very last second? That was not how he died originally. There was the speech with Cloud holding him and Zack giving him the buster sword afterwards, which couldn't have happened if Zack had been shot in the head. Why do you think they would have made that specific change in Rebirth? It doesn't make any real sense with any theory I've heard, including that everything is just revised, showing us the lifestream, and moving directly into Advent Children. Is that also just a dream and a meaningless/cinematic change? Or it was his desire to be saved by an invisible force, which he would later realized was Aerith? Either way doesn't quite do it for me. But very interested to know your thoughts!
Great video!
Here's the thing.. the lifestream has layers. Mako, the upper layer where your soul initially goes, and then the planet. Mako is the physical form, messing with it can allow access to your subconscious memories. Upper layer is like a purgatory/staging ground for the eventual absorption back to the planet. The planet serves as the "Promised Land" which is where all Cetra knew they would go, and would be happy.
If you consider the purpose of the upper layer is to prep you for the planet, and that preparation is the release of your baggage so you can move on, then it stands to reason Zack was in this layer, hanging on to his battle to save Cloud and reliving it constantly. It need not play out identically each time, because the purpose would be to show him that no matter what, the outcome is the same: his death. And hopefully, he accepts it and moves on, or is otherwise slowly eroded away over time into the lifestream.
Zack *is* dead.
He *is* in the lifestream.
and...
He *will* reunite with Aeris.
With the whispers helping Zack, it would change the dynamic of the fight. Zack wont fight the same with the whispers zipping around helping. That and they have gone back in time help him live this time. So the bullet makes sense
@@CthulhuTheory No hes not dead, they said he wasnt
@@zacatkinson3926 No, they didn't. He's just as dead as Aeris at the end of Rebirth.
If you're referring to the line that says "Zack cheats death", then you've fallen for their red herring. Zack was reliving his death in his own version/corner/bubble/layer/whatever you wanna call it of the lifestream (which is and the whispers changed that when the Arbiter went away.
Remember how Aeris tells Cloud when they wake up after falling at the temple that the place is a homecoming, homeward bound perhaps, but to just call it a dream - HER dream to be precise?
Yeah... Aeris created that place; they were there because Aeris set it up.
She knew what was going to happen - which is subtly demonstrated all thru Remake - and so she took steps to make sure that "dream" of hers would play out like it did.
This means she knew Zack would get them there, which implies *she* is responsible for the whispers saving Zack.
Which is also evidenced by the feeling he got because he asks her unconscious body if it was her.
Y'all gonna feel so dumb for not seeing these things right in front of your face when part 3 comes out and lays out the entire gameplan finally.
But, hey, maybe I'm wrong and I'm gonna be the one feeling dumb. Who knows.
One thing I think everyone can agree on is that pt3 can't come soon enough.
@@CthulhuTheory you dont what you're talking about
I don't think mine is a theory but more what I saw and felt when I finished it
The first thing that isn't even up for debate is Aerith's death
She is dead, the other party members are mourning her passing
In the fight with Jenova they are all out and have full limits
Everyone except Cloud who is in total denial
Sephiroth makes it clear that he won't be able to see reality
"The worlds" we see are all from Lifestream
Sephiroth is basically corrupting the Lifestream
In the CG movie outside Forgotten Capital the Lifestream turns from green to black
The worlds we see, as Sephiroth says, are generated, some last longer but they are all destined to disappear
Zack is dead and in the Lifestream
Aerith is dead and in the Lifestream
In fact she helps both Zack to find the right path or we can say she managed to reunite with him knowing where he is
It helps Cloud but The edge of Creation is more of a Lifestream thing or it could be a creation of Cloud's subconscious
Practically where there will be the final fight with Cloud's inner Sephiroth
At the end of everything there is the funeral which we don't see but we will see in part 3
When they are sitting near the lake the one who appears to Cloud is Jenova
However, the one at the end of the game with the Goodbye could easily be the real Aerith
As for Cloud being able to see Aerith I think it's thanks to the mako he has inside his body which is ultimately Lifestream
That's why he has that connection both with her, with Zack and where he sees "the worlds"
I'm gonna laugh so hard after all this theorycrafting if it was straight up Aerith and Sephiroth going back in time through the lifestream all along and all this wild speculation is just a beautiful Nomuraism 'gotcha' and we get some wild ending where Aerith and Zack are both actually alive and everyone fights the crazy time travelling Sephiroth together in a convergence of worlds/timelines.
I really hope this post doesn't get a callback in a few years though.
This is the way I’ve always interpreted Rebirth and Remake; all the major beats from the OG are plainly taking place even if the story is being told a little different. No “Jenova-Aerith”, no multiverse but everything branching from the same lifestream, and Aerith is still dead.
Philip bro great video you're awesome been a fan for awhile!
What do you think of my theory?
I think Cloud is the one that killed Aerith in the rainbow world. Cuz Cloud deflects Sephiroths Sword, destiny changed but Aerith still ends up dead in the rainbow world that was created with cloud crying profusely. How? Why? Because Cloud being puppeted by Sephiroth killed her.
The Devs wanted to make a big impactful change without completely derailing the story/characters. So they created these Dream worlds where Cloud can still accidentally kill Arieth resulting in Clouds guilt consuming him putting him in a broken state of mind as we see at the end of Rebirth. But still not robbing Sephiroth of his iconic villain role of killing Arieth because she still dies by his hand in the real world.
Sephiroth smiles as Cloud deflects the sword because he knows he can get cloud to kill Arieth, resulting in Arieth force ghosting to consul him, resulting in Clouds mind to break and be confused, resulting in Tifa and party distancing themselves from him, resulting in cloud losing all hope and succoming to be a robbed man like he sees himself as in his vision.
Thank you so much, and that’s a Great theory. It would be extra brutal, and a shocking twist for sure, making Sephiroth evil more evil and cloud even more guilty.
This guys editing style and sense if humor is too stronk
I just know that this is the FINAL FINAL FANTASY VII GAME. They gotta wrap up EVERYTHING. Can’t wait to see what they pull off. They may need to release it towards the end of the year whenever it comes out so it won’t get screwed out of anymore GOTY awards.
No we'll see FF7 again, maybe a sequel or a spinoff. Its too profitable for square
@@zacatkinson3926 OG fans will be pushing late 50s early 60s by then. lol just need to move on with the franchise as a whole.
Finally someone else understands.
I almost need sector 7 level bluprints and schematics at this stage. Hojo might think Aerith is clouds.. I put FFAC as the time Cloud spent in the mako chamber and is most likely disabled in a wheelchair if Aerith cannot accept his disability or reality.
Aerith is in the Livestream and "calls" Cloud from there the same way we are calling our friends and family with our Smartphones. Aerith ist just smarter then our technology nowadays. 😉😇
This was always my first impression and i dont see how so many talk about different realities saying they messed up the finale 🤷♂️
Is the sound out of sync (around a quarter way into the video) for anyone else?
This game is such high level art
With FF7OG it isn't explained how the black materia made Sephiroth reborn. But With the change In FF7 Part 3, The reunion of Worlds, I believe the black materia's function is to be Sephioths version of revive. Which excels a "complete" form of Sephiroth. Basically like Cell in DBZ Against Gohan.
It will of course be used to summon Meteor but not in the way of OG. With the knowledge of the ancients already learnt travelling realities. i believe this is purely added knowledge inside the materia to enhance his powers further, not the Orb power to summon the end of the world.
Do you think that Cloud will realize that Aerith died in the livestream sequence? I’m not sure what to think of it.
On one hand, I think that doing so lessens the focus on Clouds true identity.
On the other hand, I think that not doing so kinda clogs the narrative since Cloud will have “two” moments in part 3.
What are your thoughts? Great video btw.
I think it's going to happen after when we return to the Forgotten City with Bugenhagen where we see the projection of Aerth's death in the waterfall.
@ so you think there will be two moments where he kinda breaks down and has a resolution?
@@e.t.gohome8042 I wouldn't frame it as breaking down twice, instead more of going through a process. Like his experience in the lifestream will greatly help strengthen his mental capacity to finally look and face the truth once he gets to the Forgotten Capital.
I love the ending it’s amazing on my opinion
Would love to see Sephiroth overcome Genova. Her arrogance that she can control all. That sephiroth has become greater than her akin to Clyde and Ultima. But still wants to carry on destroying as she once did.
I fully 100% believe that the Aerith at the end of Rebirth is Jenova, and I can prove it.
"Those you fear, those you love, those you hate, Jenova will become anyone to fool her prey."
They drive this home a lot in rebirth.
Everything that "Aerith" says to cloud at the end, is what the real Aerith has already said to him in Remake AND in Rebirth.
"And if I said I wasnt?" Aerith says this with the exact same inflection when they were at the park in remake and cloud asks her if she's going to be okay going home.
"Dont worry, its like a second home." She says this the exact same way in Remake when cloud has a dream at Aeriths house and he talks to her outside, referring to the shinra HQ building, and thats when she says, "dont worry, its like a second home."
Everything she says, she has already said it, showing Jenovas mimickry.
Another piece of proof is:
The real Aerith just got done telling cloud in the sleeping forest to not focus on Sephiroth, cause she's the only one that can stop him, that he needs to focus on himself and find the real him. So at the end, when "Aerith" makes cloud "promise to stop sephiroth," it doesnt make sense cause she just told him she is the only one that can stop him.
And that is why im 100% convinced that the Aerith at the end is not our real Aerith, and in fact is Jenova pretending to be Aerith, mimicking her by using Clouds memories of her to shape the illusion.
I love that. I talk about this idea near the end of the video.
@PhilipHarts I'm still watching the video lol I just really wanted to comment lol 😊🤝
Plus it’s different, and want to make R part 3 a little different
Aerith mentions the city of the Cetra in the French version and the Japanese version.
Aerith never mentioned before that she will need to pray to stop the meteor.
Aerith doesn't ask Cloud to promise anything in the Japanese or even in the French version.
If Aerith is Jenova or an illusion, there’s absolutely no reason to show her saying goodbye when there’s no one there to see her. Moreover, why would Jenova say 'Goodbye'?
@RebirthFacts I still think it's jenova. Why would she tell cloud not worry about sephiroth and that only she can stop him and to find clouds true self, only to completely do a 180 an hour later and say screw finding your true self cloud, promise you'll stop sephiroth?
The other statements she makes are the exact same as in remake. I can't ignore that. And I can't ignore her making him promise to stop sephiroth when she just told him at the sleeping forest to not worry about him.
Sorry, but I'm not changing my opinions. We will just have to wait until part 3. 🤝
Best Breakdown I have seen so far!
One question, why did Aerith didn't questioned Cloud holding the Black Materia, what do you think is gonna be the payoff from the ending? It was Jenova/Sephiroth or she knows the time-line through white whispers connection and wants Cloud to follow the events and delivering the black materia to "Top-Half" Sephiroth?
I still don't understand what the purpose of Remake's story was if they weren't going to actually change anything in Rebirth. There was such a focus on them changing the timeline with the whispers and multiple characters remembering the original game's story. The ending of Remake even states that the future is now unknown, but we got the exact same story in Rebirth, just more fleshed out.
Lame backtracked story
Can still change the ending without ruining the story like bringing dead characters back to life
The purpose was to bring back Zack and possibly Aerith's survival that they were teasing relentlessly. If she will be gone anyway then you are right. The whole new setup was a waste of time, money and a mockery of Aerith fans who will probably leave SE for good after this.
Yall crack me up 😂 aerith isn't gonna live. They're retelling the story while also keeping the main points the same. They've said over and over they're not changing the story
The point could just be simply that no matter what they do she dies. Think Time Machine the movie. He goes back in time dozens of times only to fail to save her every time because it was just meant to be. Now it is to those who remain to come to terms with her death. That is not saying nothing will change either. Cloud's guilt being a major one. It could be even worse than before or better.
29:54 It's not OG, It's Similar, but there's too many differences for it to be the same
Both scenes happened. Cloud blocks Sephiroth, and Aerith still dies. The only difference is Sephiroth didn't stab Aerith, Cloud did. Cloud blocks the shot, the sword lands on the ground next to Cloud, then Sephiroth makes him pick up the sword and kill Aerith. Watch the scene again and it makes sense. The party was blocked off by the whispers, so they only have Cloud's fractured recollection of what happened. As with Nibelhiem, the player is presented with scenes that they view as objective only for it to be revealed that it’s the result of Cloud’s broke mind. All of Rebirth, especially in the Temple of the Ancients, showed Cloud losing control of his body. Sephiroth calls Cloud a puppet both before and immediately after Aerith’s death, also saying. “How can you ever hope to see the truth with such clouded eyes,” once again referring to his broke mind. When it's revealed that Cloud killed Aerith, it will be a HUGE gut punch and possibly even more impactful than the original. THAT is how you make Aerith's death hit again, even for long time fans. And if this doesn’t happen, then Square knows I’m onto them and they changed it.
How are you figuring that cloud stabbed her? I’m not seeing it. It is weird though that in first shot of materia bouncing, she’s still falling, and you’d think Sephiroth would be right behind her, but he’s not. Unless he had already walked away and it took her a bit to fall, but that would also be weird if it took cloud that long to turn around.
Nope doing too much with it.
Actually, makes sense and fits with the rest of the scenes where Cloud goes weird and starts stabbing people saying that it's not death, it's just homecoming. I rewatched the scene, and it's true, Sephiroth was never close to Aerith after Cloud blocked him, but the sword was, and there is a cut of the scene, so a lot of things could have happened in that span of the moment. Also, if you watch Tifa's perspective, Cloud has blood in his dominant hand, as if he was the one who stabbed Aerith, so Tifa is wondering if Cloud did it in one of those moments where he seems to be possesed by Sephiroth. That would make a lot of sense given that it was shown earlier in Gongaga, then in Nibelheim and latter in Temple of the Ancients. But is not the first time it is shown, actually it was also shown in Remake, when they followed Jhonny, Cloud was about to kill him and Tifa stopped him. Aerith saw the same after Cloud defeated Reno on the church, he was about to kill Reno and Aerith tried to stop him, but the whispers intervened. So Cloud going murderous was kind of hinted on Remake and fully shown in Rebirth. That would also explain why Sephiroth wanted to take control of the whispers and doesn't seem to be doing anything with them in Rebirth, he simply needed to avoid the whispers to intervene in the Aerith's death scene in order to further control and torture Cloud.
The huge flaw in this is Sephiroth pulls the sword from Aerith/the ground and it has blood on it. Even if this is true, having Cloud kill Aerith even if possessed destroys the story. I don’t see how it could continue if that was the case. Cloud wouldn’t forgive himself and neither would Tifa in my opinion.
@@kalanbell1057 The thing is, in Nibelheim, they show how Cloud acts and moves like Sephiroth, as if he IS Sephiroth. In the scene where Tifa, Yuffie and Cloud are going to the Nibelheim reactor, the reach the mako spring from the flashback and Cloud says verbatim the words Sephiroth said on the flashback scene, and from Tifa's perspective, is like Cloud IS Sephiroth. So in the Aerith death scene, if you look closely, Sephiroth never moves from where he lands after Cloud deflecs him. The scene goes like this.
- Cloud is struggling to not hit Aerith with the sword.
- Sephiroth starts to come down with his sword ready to impale Aerith.
- Cloud manages to break free, and moves to deflect Sephiroth.
- They get locked on place, having eye to eye contact all the time, and then Cloud deflects Sephiroth.
- Masamune lands just a little ahead of where Cloud is, which is at the back of Aerith. Cloud has his back to Aerith's back.
- Sephiroth lands ahead, with his back to both Cloud and Aerith and the Masamune between them.
- Cut to the party outside, now they are allowed to enter the temple, but we know it takes time and is not visible where Aerith, Cloud and Sephiroth are.
- Next the camera is showing Aerith's back from the Masamune´s perspective, Cloud is not seen, then a glitch like when Cloud is having his headaches and then cuts to the Masamune with blood showing and Sephiroth pulling it out of Aerith's back as he smiles. This is where they are playing with you, it was not Sephiroth, it was Cloud being possesed like in the Temple of the Ancients, when he went murderous saying that it's not death, it's homecoming.
- Next scene after that is when Aerith falls and plays similar to OG, but now Sephiroth has his Masamune again, still facing away from the whole scene, which is the opposite from OG, where he is literally facing to Aerith and Cloud.
So, it kind of fits, but then again, this is assuming that those "murderous" sections shown earlier where for nothing. Granted, Nomura's style of storytelling is that it has to evoke feelings, even if the scene or whatever you introduced earlier is meant to be forgotten, because the emotion was already conveyed, like "don't care about details, it happened and you felt it, that's all you need to remember, it doesn't have to make sense". Now, granted, Rebirth is not being directed by Nomura, but he IS the one guiding Nojima on how things have to play out and making sure certain parts have the story elements he wants, It's because of him we got the whispers in the first place...but I digress.
The point is that, with what is show, it's has a point, I'm not saying that it will be that way, but knowing how Nomura and Kitase like things, might not be too farfetched.
I still don't understand why Seph is obsessed with poetry in the remakes.
Here is my theory that FF7 is heavily influenced by the Bible, the Human experience, which is mimicking ideas from the “other proposed FF7” Xenogears: Sephiroth is the biblical fallen one, the metaphor of what happens to those who seek knowledge to the extent of gaining even knowledge that hurts us (learning about his background and not learning about the love that causes his creation). Cloud (me, you, us) desires to be perfect and like his role model at the cost of hurting those we loved in our childhood, (personally) thinking that we will be able to better our hometown friends and family [classic Joseph Campbell’s “Hero’s Journey”]. Aerith is the “messiah” of this game, all knowing, all benevolent, the one who is all good and shows the protagonist how to live and the first character to show him affection. The whispers are a biblical idea of spirit: holy and evil spirits, vying for us, the protagonist, to follow the good white spirits and reject the wicked black influence. Every moment of our wakefulness we are charged with two options: 1) be selfless and be obedient to the essence of “Good” or 2) be selfish and be disobedient to the essence of “Good” essentially, choosing to be a child forever a parasite (the way Sephiroth exists in the life stream).
Sorry I typed all this during those building a chair scenes. Felt like an ad and got carried away with typing out my pet theory thanks to my adhd. I think we who are strongly drawn to this story understand the concept of sacrifice to a cellular, spiritual level of the idea of being saved by the sacrifice of someone kind, benevolent, and loving to us in the way that we can never give back to the ones that brought us to life except to love others and perpetuate being good to others.
Added on thoughts:
The new trilogy is called a remake, rebirth, re”something” it’s an addition to the original three disc game in the same vein as Star wars new trilogy is just part of the story. So this continuation of the story of PS1 is basically Sephiroth trying to change his destiny for the new generation of gamers. Time is rhyme that not all things are exactly repeated but rhyme with past events.
This instance of Sephiroth is of the same essence of a fallen one. A Lucifer type (biblically beautiful and perfect in his ways) wants to prevent his destined downfall (the PS1 timeline, book of Revelation) by influencing Cloud (you the reader) with the black whispers trying to convince you that bad is good and good is bad, by appealing to your pathos through his sad unloved background as a created unloved lab specimen.
Sephiroth’s character and presumed motivations (especially after all the ever crisis stuff) in the re-trilogy is very reminiscent of Krelian to me.
@ Krelian, a 美男子 (Bidanshi) character with high intellect is very much in line with the Judeo-Christian concept of Lucifer.
All I want, is to see Kadaj in the updated graphics
Another Max theory that Aerith is Jenova. Why did Red sense Aerith if she’s Jenova? He was close to Aerith. Aerith told Cloud, “Whatever happens don’t blame yourself” at their spot, because she knows he would blame himself. You are focusing part 3 on AC, okay ask yourself why did Aerith give Cloud her empty materia? Did Cloud have her empty materia in AC? Some of the story line might be the same as AC but it’s definitely not going to be the same as the movie. I will come back here after part 3 is released to prove you were wrong. And the people who claim that the empty materia is the black one, listen closely you can hear the materias click as they touch each other when Cloud puts in back in his pocket. Do I believe Aeirth is dead maybe but I will never believe she is Jenova and there is a reason why she gave Cloud her materia. There are so many things you’re missing in your theory. You all about Cloud grief and he can’t love Tifa because of his grief. Part 3 won’t be like AC.
She went into the lifestream and then will eventually turn into Kadaj
Your video made me realize that Sephie is such a troll!
She lives in one timeline dies in the main one
Its kinda fucked up aris gets cloud to fall in love with her 😅 knowing she will die
He doesn't like her only as a friend he as always loved Tifa
If Zack is in the same place as Aerith, than he's pretty much been dead, the whole time, right? The whole thing about Zack being alive is pretty much just a Red Herring than.
I think Zack's part is to help give more context to how the lifestream works, and he'll help in Cloud's mental battles with Sephiroth and Jenova, much like the ending for Rebirth.
@@ExploitedWorker he is alive they said so
@@zacatkinson3926 They haven't confirmed that, nor would they. That would be a massive spoiler.
God this remake has been a drug trip. Oof. Convoluted mess.
the ending sucks, the game was great when it shows what it is as it is, we got a very beautiful moment and very nostalgic, this time around they tried so hard to make future plot twists, so in the end we indeed got confused and the scene itself is not as strong
I will say, thanks for helping me find some good in 7 rebirth's ending. It really rubbed me the wrong way. But I think we can all agree... the final boss after Jenova is fucking bullshit!
Minutes in loving it so far BUT Jeesus!!! Is the music a bit loud when trying to listen
After all this months I'm finally getting to cope with the ending, It was just too much shoved down your throat...
The smiley Aerith from the doomed timeline is too creepy though. LUL
I felt cheated and having that big moment taken away. I did not feel the same impact as did back in 97’…
Oh great, listening to this made me even more confused about FF VII, thank you!