I know this was a crap reaction. It was a really great episode, one that I ruined by thinking there was going to be a twist to it. It took me longer than it should have to understand that it was just a straight grief episode. Having now seen the whole of this season, from a technical standpoint, this was the best episode, in my opinion. Not necessarily my favorite one, but the best executed. In that respect, it might even be the best I've seen from this show so far. Unfortunately, you only get one shot at doing reactions, and on this occasion, of all occasions, I blew it. 🤦♂ I was appreciating it during the reaction (when I allowed myself to), but it was only during the outro, after realizing what the episode actually was, that I began to really 'get it,' and it dawned on me just how impressive it was. 👏
A lot of people don't want to accept that Joyce actually died and have similar reactions to yours. So don't beat yourself up. Everyone deals with death differently (even fictional ones!) and denial is one of the stages.
Don't worry, imo you needn't apologize for being 'real'. I have watched this episode probably 20 times. As an aspie, I learned a lot about expressing grief by rewatching it. Also, I simply love long shots.
One part of the excellence of this particular show is how different the reactions are by most everybody. After seeing this when it aired, everyone had a different reaction. There was this girl that loved BTVS and she has a similar reaction to you. For 3 weeks she said Joyce was not dead and this was part of a plan. What can not be denied is that this is a great great hour of television. Some of my friends and more than a few reactors think it is the finest show they’ve ever watched. The point of the naked vampire in the morgue is the same as hearing the children playing, the parking cop writing a ticket, and the paramedics leaving. When we experience a death we think the world has stopped but the reality life and people move on and are not aware of our pain. The vampire is brutal, ugly, naked, and raw. Sadly for Buffy, her world does not pause or stop for her pain just like it does not for anyone. Buffy may have to fight in a supernatural world but her personal life can not keep her immune from death or the real consequences of life. Your reaction for this show and all future shows should remain true to your heart and mind. We watch because BYVS is a unique shared experience. We fans understand and are open to any fans thoughts. It is what makes the Buffyverse still alive and worthwhile. Keep doing what you are doing.
It's funny, I always liked Joyce but I didn't realise how much until she was gone. ☹Reading the comments, it seems like a lot of people were fond of Joyce and felt a similar way. 🙂
Not even joking really, looking for any possibility that this can't be real, that something else is happening instead or clinging to some wild hope that things will change is VERY real!
I know you thought Anya was being a bit inappropriate with how she said that she wished that Joyce didn't die, but really it was a great response from a former vengeance demon who spent over a thousand years granting wishes.
I saw this episode for the first time just weeks before my own mother's sudden death... it's scarily accurate in capturing the surreality. That was in 2009, and I still can't watch this episode without tearing up..
It strikes me as so telling that Anya knows everything about death and nothing about what follows it. She was the cause frequently, but never part of the aftermath, and she's trying so hard to understand why and help. Only Buffy could show a character being simultaneously so evil and so pure at the same time. And this is also one of my favorite moments with Buffy. Anya makes a comment that's ostensibly a little insensitive, but Buffy sees and immediately understands the compassion behind it and returns it. Xander says something kind of dismissive and rude "Anya, ever the wordsmith" but Buffy gets it, and simply says, "thank you." I just loved Buffy and Anya both so much in that moment.
Yes it was heart wrenching. The few times I've seen this, I'd usually be too shocked / stressed to cry, but this time, that part and a couple of others got my right eye leaking.
That's understandable. I'm starting to think I might be a robot. 😂 During the edit to my joint reaction with Nicole, when I saw she'd shed a tear (to an episode she'd seen more than once before BTW), I told her she'd made me look like a robot, haha Someone on Patreon came up with 'JayBot.' 🤦♂😂TBF, I think I managed to shake that nickname in a recent reaction. 😁
@@jaypeakay5864 Nope, having a different reaction definitely does not mean you're a robot :P. Emotions are strange beasts. I still can't figure out so many reactions that I have (or don't have) to certain movies. It can depend on what other emotions are going on with me and/or the exact way a movie does something.
Jay, the fact that you go to this episode without being spoiled for it is amazing in itself. Many rate The Body as the best episode of BTVS ever, I don't personally, however The Body is one of the greatest episodes of tv drama ever shown. Whedon is a master at torturing the viewers. The fact that his episode has no music, and when Buffy opens the back door and hears the children playing it is so real, that even when a person has a personal tragedy life goes on as normal for all other people, it is all very human and ordinary, this is why it is so incredible. So many people watching The Body, myself included, have had an almost exact experience to this, this is why it is so brilliantly written and directed. SMG puts in an incredible performance here, and it is criminal that she was not awarded for this. This is why S5 is amazing. However I think there is one more episode in this Season which even surpasses this. A brilliant heartbreaking finale unmatched in the Series. Season 5 was a Zenith for the show.
Honestly, I've only had one big spoiler for an episode and it was an Angel episode that I didn't even film a reaction for. Everyone has been amazing in that respect. The finale was great! And it set up quite an opening to S6. 😲
Yes to "Whedon is a master at torturing the viewers". While I've seen most Buffy episodes numerous times each, I could only bear to watch this full one twice. I was very anxious just starting to watch this reaction.
So many supernatural deaths and death cheats in Buffy's world... Joyce's death on the other hand was a real one, one that can, has, and does, happen in our world. So, it is all the more shocking when viewed through the lens of the Buffy Verse. Joss does like to remind his viewers that real life can far more tragic, and scary, than any fictional terror.
22:40 Buffy also gets a lot of her strength from her emotions, which she’s completely drained of by this stage. It makes sense this one fight feels more terrifying than normal.
YES exactly. Plus, sadness is driven by the parasympathetic nervous system, which can totally inhibit the sympathetic (fight or flight) nervous system much of the time. So any activity that requires adrenaline to be effective, well... during grief, doing such activity is SO much harder or impossible.
Also, re: your question about why the paramedics seemed so unemotional - we have to remember that people in their profession probably have these sorts of conversations constantly, maybe multiple times a day. At a certain point, I imagine it just gets too emotionally draining to be fully empathetic to every single grief-stricken loved one you meet - especially if you've already been called to dash off to another emergency. Under the circumstances, I thought this paramedic still did pretty damn well: he explained the situation to Buffy, made sure she wouldn't be alone, told her what would happen next, and recommended things she could do to take care of herself after they left.
Also also: the "deeper" reason the vampire shows up in the morgue is to remind us that the world doesn't stop when we're grieving. Life keeps happening even when we're not in a fit state to deal with it. So even while Buffy and Dawn are neck-deep in pain and grief, they STILL have to deal with a hungry vampire.
Yep. Paramedics do tend to react this way as do doctors. I had to call paramedics for my father-in-law in 2021. They were very matter-of-fact about him having a "major cardiac event" then took him in the ambulance. They were quite surprised that I didn't want to tag along and told them I didn't want to get in the way of their job. I had to lock up his apartment and gather his personal effects to take to the hospital. Their job is hard enough so I thought they should focus on what they had to do. The doctor was very much the same when we had to go to the hospital later to be informed that he had passed.
That would make sense. I think I was just convinced something else was going on, and so I was looking for it. People not acting appropriately would've been a clue, so perhaps I projected that onto their manner. Maybe.
You were the embodiment of all our denial when we first watched this episode, so don’t feel bad; your reaction was great for your confusion, waiting for the twist, any way out of accepting the loss. It’s brutal, unrelenting and beautiful and everyone involved did a brilliant job at portraying death and grief - not an easy watch but one you’ll never forget it.
10:46 directorial choice - same with the phone blurring when buffy looks at the phone to dial giles. it's to show how surreal the situation is, how unfocused and disengaged buffy is
I loved the scene with Tara and Buffy because we never see just those two. Anya and Willow were amazing and Buffy is an icon for all generations! People can still watch it.
Yeah, I was reminded of the things she's done in another episode. You forget that she's in a similar position to Angel in that she's done these terrible things, and now has to live with the memory of it. That said, she did _choose_ to become a demon. 😂 And she seems to handle it somewhat better than Angel does. Is that worrying, BTW? 😲
I think the show implies that even thought she was possessed by a demon she didn’t lose her soul unlike Angel so she’s always been the same person but now the evil part of her is gone
Well, denial is a perfectly acceptable reaction to death, so we get it. We're used to characters coming back from the dead, so it's natural that you'd think this would be the case. And you still noticed how good the episode is. It's brutal because of how real it feels, but we can't deny that Joss had a very clear vision for it. Anya's speech in particular breaks my heart every time. It does hit different since my own mother died, you start to see every detail in another light. I suppose the vampire at the end just symbolizes that the world goes on same as always, it won't stop for anyone's grief.
😮 Don't worry, a lot of reactors are in denial throughout the episode and don't really accept it until the credits roll. I was the same, kept waiting for someone to wake up or the magic to dissipate or something, but, like in life, people just die 😢
This was a great reaction. Don’t beat yourself. Even if you were in denial, you got what the episode was about and provided a very good analysis afterwards.
14:37 this was the time of the very first on screen kiss between Willow and Tara. This was a big moment for TV as well. It wasn’t shown as a big deal, but as a loving embrace of two people, which was beautiful.
Oh, really? I could've sworn I've seen them kiss before. It's good that put it into an episode like this, instead of making it a huge deal and the main focus of an episode. I hadn't even noticed. That said, it's 2023 so...
@@jaypeakay5864I think remembering joss saying he did that on purpose, because the network wouldn’t be able to cut it then, which they may have done; at the time homosexuality wasn’t commonly shown on tv outside of over the top camp or in the context of the aids epidemic. Some tv shows had like a token gay character but they usually weren’t very layered and often very cliché. The show was definitely a precursor in this (so was Xena the warrior princess actually, for those that remember). I remember at the time I felt my community was represented in such a respectful and loving way for once and it really made my teenage self seen!
I wonder if the first stage of grief (denal) is actually the hardest? I was a watcher of it's first run where they told you Joyce was dead (and considering authority figures in coming of age stories died often in the late '90's and early 2000's) in commercials, so I never went through grief with her character.
@@jaypeakay5864 Before the Internet (when it came to TV) the commercials were how viewers saw when the next episode was coming (a new episode or a repeat). They could easily con you in terms of, in this, case whether or not Joyce was alive (as the rare good trailers still do (tell you what's going on while making you think something else). But by this point in the series Joss had earned the reputation George RR Martin has (Jenny Calendar, Kendra, Angel [to some degree - as he was resurected, and in my opinion never actually died] and any crying moment where people didn't die [such as Angel losing his soul and Oz leaving town] just made him the writer we knew would do that when most other TV was still afraid to or just doing so for May sweeps). So, fans knew based off Joyce's recent health issues and Joss' writing, she was gone at the end of the previous based on the episode. That's why they felt comfortable advertising it. Fans just knew. It wasn't a suprise meant to be hopeful, nor was it meant to be. It was grief even before the episode aired. Only the next generation (of which you are a part in this situation) had hope to Joyce's situation.
They're wearing purple shirt! I can't believe you're wearing royal to The Body what do you think you're the king of everything in reactions? Huh huh!? Haha
If memory serves, Joss wrote this episode after the loss of his own mother. So he was able to pour a lot of his own emotions (the surrealness of it all, the numbness, the shock and strangeness of the entire event, the way the mind goes to crazy places, and of course the grief) into each and every scene.
So we've already had Hush where they got rid of the dialogue. This was the other experimental episode where (aside from some diegetic music) there is no music. It's all just pure reactions and emotions. If I remember correctly it was nominated for an Emmy but there was a screw-up and it was left off the ballot.
This is the first reaction i saw that had a similar mindset to mine. Until the very last second i thought that by some miracle, Joyce was gonna come back to life again. And i think this is the brilliance of this episode, for that reason exactly. It relies on the supernatural so much that the audience forgets about the "natural". Logic would dictate in any other scenario, that we'd consider natural causes for her death first and just accept it, but here we have to rule out all the supernatural possible causes and spend this whole episode wondering, crying or in denial until we actually find out that it "just happened" and it's final. When i first watched it, i remember i didn't cry at the beginning, cause i was too shocked, devastated and confused, but broke down during Anya's speech, cause that's where the reality of the episode sunk in. I felt her "I don't understand" to my core and accepted the events of the episode as true. But even when Dawn went in the morgue and the vampire's body rose up, I gasped in joy thinking it was Joyce, somehow. I even forgot this show had vampires in it. So I understand your reaction and I actually relate to it a lot! This is by far, in my opinion, the best episode of a show ever created, certainly the best depiction of death and grief I've seen in cinema and on a technical level it's perfect too. Just a terrifying, horrendous masterpiece.
Same here- first two watches of this episode (and only two, actually)... I didn't cry, was just terrified and uncomfortable (those sorts of emotions just seriously inhibit tears from me... two branches of the nervous system clashing). During this reaction, I was still almost too anxious to cry, but my right eye did leak a couple of times.
I lost my best friend several years ago. The way Buffy reacted to finding her mom (including the disassociation) was exactly my own reaction to finding him. SMG’s acting throughout this episode is amazing! This is one episode I can only watch after I’ve prepped myself for grief.
Aw, thanks for offering some additional context for your reaction, and for acknowledging your wish that it could've gone differently. You're only human! Sometimes our viewing experience is less-than-ideal, and that's just how it goes. I appreciate you sharing this anyway, even if you don't feel awesome about how it went.
Thanks, Sebastian. 👍 There is pressure to 'get it right.' I guess that comes from the reactor, rather than those watching. I say that, but I seem to _always_ get _something _wrong, so I don't even know why I bother worrying about it 😂
This episode is so brutal. It captures the experience of grief in the face of a sudden death too well. It’s uncomfortable to watch. Especially if you’ve experienced that kind of bone crushing grief. You do disassociate quite a lot. So many things run through your mind. I usually skip this episode in rewatches. Not because it’s bad, but because it’s good - it’s a tremendous achievement in television that I never want to watch. Just brilliant. To me, the vampire in the morgue at the end of the episode drives home the meaning of what it is to be human. The big bad in that morgue wasn’t the vampire. It was death, a condition all of us will deal with at some point in our lives.
I agree. I thought it specifically captured the fallout from 'sudden' death so well. Any death is hard to deal with, but when it's completely unexpected, it's like the world has just been pulled from under your feet. 💔
@0:00 "I've convinced myself that there was gonna e a twist to this whole Joyce being dead thing." "Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt." True Lies Denial is an early stage of grief, so you have clearly started to go through the stages of grief for Joyce-Shock, Denial (you are here), Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Testing, Acceptance.
First, regarding the art class; sure, the fact they were drawing a body isn’t a coincidence. But also, there’s what the teacher said: the drawing assignment was negative space; drawing what /isn’t/ there. It only took me a dozen or so viewings to spot that. Lastly (for what it’s worth) I’ll echo what others have said; your experience with the show (and this episode in particular) is…well, yours. Performant reactions are, by definition, a lie; I much prefer your experience/explanations to the alternative.
Oh, that's good! I hadn't picked up on that. I seem to remember that I was talking (or thinking hard, lol) during that scene. I doubt I'd have realised that even so. Good catch. 👏 Thanks. I'll always just be myself during reactions, I'm too old and tired to 'perform' anyway, haha. Sometimes people will hate me for it, but hey-ho, not everyone's gonna like what you do/say, or just you in general, haha.
Willows nose started bleeding Immediately. after Glori disappeared. She hadn't been hit by Glori. It was the spell 100% the spell gave her a nosebleed. Joyce had a brain tumor brain tumors are in your brain. They can cause all kinds of things to happen cognitively, psychologically. She could have been feverish from the cancer and then she could have also been you can get brain damage or swelling on the brain. Its like when Buffy had to go into that trance and then Because she was in an altered state she was able to notice dawn was not quite right. I think Joyce experienced a similar situation. She was in a different state of mind so that she became aware that something was ofd with Dawn. Cazy people can kind of notice that dawn is out of place that she doesn't look right or doesn't seem right, and so I think that's what Is it's just that Joyce. So has nothing To Do with magic Lori she's just genuinely second? It's just what I'm sad parts of life when things happen like that and yet glory also happens to brain suck people But that clearly leaves them crazy for ever so Joyce would've never come back if she had been messed with my Glory She would have been bonkers the whole time.
It's ok. I refused to believe it was a natural death, at first. My second viewing was easier to understand everything explained. I was shocked that Joyce died like that. It wouldn’t be so shocking if it was Glory or a demon doing it. For me a good reaction = genuine reaction. So you did good 😊
Thanks, man. 👍It was by far the worst death yet, and at the same time it was by far the least violent. It was even more impactful for that reason. It would've been so easy/typical to have given her a dramatic death by vampire. It stands out for being so untypical for this show, and so _real_ for that too.
Yes I also almost forgot the credits roll at the worst time at the beginning. I am just so stressed out so far- yes same as you said "I don't want to watch this".. but I am still going to watch it (and get it over with).
All ypur reasonings and everything you were saying was actually correct luke about it being bright and things juat going on. Its just your overall denial that you refused to see it for what it was. But we all didn't want it to be true.
Thanks, Helen. It's easier to be hard on yourself when you know how the full reaction went. 🤦♂Editing is truly a miracle of our age. 😂 I appreciate you saying that, though, because I was convinced that even this edit hadn't saved it, haha.
Final comment (after having finished your reaction)... I am definitely going to go hang out and hug etc, my mom for the rest of the night and future days too!
It seems the cinematography really worked on you and making everything seems outerwordly. When you are experiencing trauma life can seem too real and unreal at the same time.
Thank goodness it's over (am writing this before I watch your outro)... although I don't like the next episode much either. I didn't read all the comments yet, but I did see some of yours where you suggested it was a "bad" reaction, but I honestly do not think your reaction was bad at all. Any honest reaction is a good reaction. Plus there are SO many different actual reactions to horrible events such as these.
It has been a while since I saw this episode (or a reaction to this episode). I am writing this comment during your intro, so I haven't quite watched your reaction yet. I only saw this episode twice while watching with my mom, then we always skip it when we watch Buffy. But they did do this episode very well. In a realistic, horrible way.
I know this was a crap reaction. It was a really great episode, one that I ruined by thinking there was going to be a twist to it. It took me longer than it should have to understand that it was just a straight grief episode. Having now seen the whole of this season, from a technical standpoint, this was the best episode, in my opinion. Not necessarily my favorite one, but the best executed. In that respect, it might even be the best I've seen from this show so far. Unfortunately, you only get one shot at doing reactions, and on this occasion, of all occasions, I blew it. 🤦♂ I was appreciating it during the reaction (when I allowed myself to), but it was only during the outro, after realizing what the episode actually was, that I began to really 'get it,' and it dawned on me just how impressive it was. 👏
A lot of people don't want to accept that Joyce actually died and have similar reactions to yours. So don't beat yourself up. Everyone deals with death differently (even fictional ones!) and denial is one of the stages.
Don't worry, imo you needn't apologize for being 'real'. I have watched this episode probably 20 times. As an aspie, I learned a lot about expressing grief by rewatching it. Also, I simply love long shots.
Your reaction was denial which is a stage of grief so your reaction is actually beautiful
It was not a crap reaction. You got it.
One part of the excellence of this particular show is how different the reactions are by most everybody. After seeing this when it aired, everyone had a different reaction. There was this girl that loved BTVS and she has a similar reaction to you. For 3 weeks she said Joyce was not dead and this was part of a plan. What can not be denied is that this is a great great hour of television. Some of my friends and more than a few reactors think it is the finest show they’ve ever watched.
The point of the naked vampire in the morgue is the same as hearing the children playing, the parking cop writing a ticket, and the paramedics leaving. When we experience a death we think the world has stopped but the reality life and people move on and are not aware of our pain. The vampire is brutal, ugly, naked, and raw. Sadly for Buffy, her world does not pause or stop for her pain just like it does not for anyone. Buffy may have to fight in a supernatural world but her personal life can not keep her immune from death or the real consequences of life. Your reaction for this show and all future shows should remain true to your heart and mind. We watch because BYVS is a unique shared experience. We fans understand and are open to any fans thoughts. It is what makes the Buffyverse still alive and worthwhile. Keep doing what you are doing.
Denial is a stage of grief and you were firmly in it 😂
It's funny, I always liked Joyce but I didn't realise how much until she was gone. ☹Reading the comments, it seems like a lot of people were fond of Joyce and felt a similar way. 🙂
Not even joking really, looking for any possibility that this can't be real, that something else is happening instead or clinging to some wild hope that things will change is VERY real!
How this episode didn’t get one Emmy is beyond me.
Agreed. It’s a brilliant achievement. The lack of music makes it so brutally real. It’s a tough watch, but absolutely brilliant. I
Award shows have always overlooked genre shows beyond makeup or musical scores.
😩
Unironically this is one of the best episodes of TV I've ever seen ever. At worst top 3
Agreed. For my money, this is the best single episode, of any show, ever made.
Agreed. It’s a crime this show didn’t get more award recognition’s throughout the series.
I know you thought Anya was being a bit inappropriate with how she said that she wished that Joyce didn't die, but really it was a great response from a former vengeance demon who spent over a thousand years granting wishes.
I saw this episode for the first time just weeks before my own mother's sudden death... it's scarily accurate in capturing the surreality. That was in 2009, and I still can't watch this episode without tearing up..
I am so so sorry :(
It strikes me as so telling that Anya knows everything about death and nothing about what follows it. She was the cause frequently, but never part of the aftermath, and she's trying so hard to understand why and help. Only Buffy could show a character being simultaneously so evil and so pure at the same time.
And this is also one of my favorite moments with Buffy. Anya makes a comment that's ostensibly a little insensitive, but Buffy sees and immediately understands the compassion behind it and returns it. Xander says something kind of dismissive and rude "Anya, ever the wordsmith" but Buffy gets it, and simply says, "thank you." I just loved Buffy and Anya both so much in that moment.
That's a really good point actually. 👏
You were firmly in denial the whole episode. I was too the first time I saw it.
That's nice to know. Thanks, Amy. 👍
Anya’s monologue and then her wishing (as a former vengeance demon) that Joyce didn’t die always gets me.
Yep. As much as I love her humorous scenes, that scene was probably the actor's best work. 👏
Yes it was heart wrenching. The few times I've seen this, I'd usually be too shocked / stressed to cry, but this time, that part and a couple of others got my right eye leaking.
This episode still makes me cry no matter how many times ive seen it - especially Anyas scene
That's understandable. I'm starting to think I might be a robot. 😂 During the edit to my joint reaction with Nicole, when I saw she'd shed a tear (to an episode she'd seen more than once before BTW), I told her she'd made me look like a robot, haha Someone on Patreon came up with 'JayBot.' 🤦♂😂TBF, I think I managed to shake that nickname in a recent reaction. 😁
@@jaypeakay5864 Nope, having a different reaction definitely does not mean you're a robot :P. Emotions are strange beasts. I still can't figure out so many reactions that I have (or don't have) to certain movies. It can depend on what other emotions are going on with me and/or the exact way a movie does something.
Jay, the fact that you go to this episode without being spoiled for it is amazing in itself. Many rate The Body as the best episode of BTVS ever, I don't personally, however The Body is one of the greatest episodes of tv drama ever shown. Whedon is a master at torturing the viewers. The fact that his episode has no music, and when Buffy opens the back door and hears the children playing it is so real, that even when a person has a personal tragedy life goes on as normal for all other people, it is all very human and ordinary, this is why it is so incredible. So many people watching The Body, myself included, have had an almost exact experience to this, this is why it is so brilliantly written and directed. SMG puts in an incredible performance here, and it is criminal that she was not awarded for this. This is why S5 is amazing. However I think there is one more episode in this Season which even surpasses this. A brilliant heartbreaking finale unmatched in the Series. Season 5 was a Zenith for the show.
This, exactly! Literally everything SMG shows on screen in that first scene is how I reacted to finding my best friend when he passed.
@@PyroDrake1134 I'm sorry to hear that, bud. That must've been horiffic. ☹
Honestly, I've only had one big spoiler for an episode and it was an Angel episode that I didn't even film a reaction for. Everyone has been amazing in that respect. The finale was great! And it set up quite an opening to S6. 😲
Yes to "Whedon is a master at torturing the viewers". While I've seen most Buffy episodes numerous times each, I could only bear to watch this full one twice. I was very anxious just starting to watch this reaction.
So many supernatural deaths and death cheats in Buffy's world... Joyce's death on the other hand was a real one, one that can, has, and does, happen in our world. So, it is all the more shocking when viewed through the lens of the Buffy Verse. Joss does like to remind his viewers that real life can far more tragic, and scary, than any fictional terror.
22:40 Buffy also gets a lot of her strength from her emotions, which she’s completely drained of by this stage. It makes sense this one fight feels more terrifying than normal.
I like that take!
YES exactly. Plus, sadness is driven by the parasympathetic nervous system, which can totally inhibit the sympathetic (fight or flight) nervous system much of the time. So any activity that requires adrenaline to be effective, well... during grief, doing such activity is SO much harder or impossible.
Also, re: your question about why the paramedics seemed so unemotional - we have to remember that people in their profession probably have these sorts of conversations constantly, maybe multiple times a day. At a certain point, I imagine it just gets too emotionally draining to be fully empathetic to every single grief-stricken loved one you meet - especially if you've already been called to dash off to another emergency. Under the circumstances, I thought this paramedic still did pretty damn well: he explained the situation to Buffy, made sure she wouldn't be alone, told her what would happen next, and recommended things she could do to take care of herself after they left.
Also also: the "deeper" reason the vampire shows up in the morgue is to remind us that the world doesn't stop when we're grieving. Life keeps happening even when we're not in a fit state to deal with it. So even while Buffy and Dawn are neck-deep in pain and grief, they STILL have to deal with a hungry vampire.
Yep. Paramedics do tend to react this way as do doctors. I had to call paramedics for my father-in-law in 2021. They were very matter-of-fact about him having a "major cardiac event" then took him in the ambulance. They were quite surprised that I didn't want to tag along and told them I didn't want to get in the way of their job. I had to lock up his apartment and gather his personal effects to take to the hospital. Their job is hard enough so I thought they should focus on what they had to do. The doctor was very much the same when we had to go to the hospital later to be informed that he had passed.
That would make sense. I think I was just convinced something else was going on, and so I was looking for it. People not acting appropriately would've been a clue, so perhaps I projected that onto their manner. Maybe.
You were the embodiment of all our denial when we first watched this episode, so don’t feel bad; your reaction was great for your confusion, waiting for the twist, any way out of accepting the loss.
It’s brutal, unrelenting and beautiful and everyone involved did a brilliant job at portraying death and grief - not an easy watch but one you’ll never forget it.
I genuinely thought I was gonna get slaughtered for it. Such a relief to hear I wasn't the only one waiting for something to happen.
10:46 directorial choice - same with the phone blurring when buffy looks at the phone to dial giles. it's to show how surreal the situation is, how unfocused and disengaged buffy is
That makes sense. 👍
The cast the actress for Dawn's teacher specifically because she looks similar to Joyce
OK, I thought that must've been deliberate. Seeing her had me thinking about a possible twist even more. 🤦♂
Willow and Anya's scenes always make me cry
Both actors did a fantastic job.
I loved the scene with Tara and Buffy because we never see just those two. Anya and Willow were amazing and Buffy is an icon for all generations! People can still watch it.
In the Wish Anya hinted to Giles she has murdered people by her own hands not just by wishes so we know she's seen death first hand but not like this
Yeah, I was reminded of the things she's done in another episode. You forget that she's in a similar position to Angel in that she's done these terrible things, and now has to live with the memory of it. That said, she did _choose_ to become a demon. 😂 And she seems to handle it somewhat better than Angel does. Is that worrying, BTW? 😲
I think the show implies that even thought she was possessed by a demon she didn’t lose her soul unlike Angel so she’s always been the same person but now the evil part of her is gone
Well, denial is a perfectly acceptable reaction to death, so we get it. We're used to characters coming back from the dead, so it's natural that you'd think this would be the case. And you still noticed how good the episode is. It's brutal because of how real it feels, but we can't deny that Joss had a very clear vision for it. Anya's speech in particular breaks my heart every time. It does hit different since my own mother died, you start to see every detail in another light. I suppose the vampire at the end just symbolizes that the world goes on same as always, it won't stop for anyone's grief.
Right?! I so thought they were gonna bring her back. TBF, they kinda almost did in the next episode! 😬 I'm sorry to hear about your mother. ☹
😮 Don't worry, a lot of reactors are in denial throughout the episode and don't really accept it until the credits roll. I was the same, kept waiting for someone to wake up or the magic to dissipate or something, but, like in life, people just die 😢
Haha, that's _exactly_ what I was waiting for. I wasted a lot of time focussing on what _might_ happen rather than on what _was_ happening.
Like many of us fans, we didn't want to lose Joyce. Your reaction was perfect.
It was so cruel on Buffy. And now it feels like they might be taking Giles from her too! 😲I don't yet know BTW.
This was a great reaction. Don’t beat yourself. Even if you were in denial, you got what the episode was about and provided a very good analysis afterwards.
Thanks, man, appreciate it. 👍
14:37 this was the time of the very first on screen kiss between Willow and Tara. This was a big moment for TV as well. It wasn’t shown as a big deal, but as a loving embrace of two people, which was beautiful.
Oh, really? I could've sworn I've seen them kiss before. It's good that put it into an episode like this, instead of making it a huge deal and the main focus of an episode. I hadn't even noticed. That said, it's 2023 so...
@@jaypeakay5864I think remembering joss saying he did that on purpose, because the network wouldn’t be able to cut it then, which they may have done; at the time homosexuality wasn’t commonly shown on tv outside of over the top camp or in the context of the aids epidemic. Some tv shows had like a token gay character but they usually weren’t very layered and often very cliché. The show was definitely a precursor in this (so was Xena the warrior princess actually, for those that remember). I remember at the time I felt my community was represented in such a respectful and loving way for once and it really made my teenage self seen!
I wonder if the first stage of grief (denal) is actually the hardest? I was a watcher of it's first run where they told you Joyce was dead (and considering authority figures in coming of age stories died often in the late '90's and early 2000's) in commercials, so I never went through grief with her character.
Wait, they spoiled her death in commericials for the show? I wasn't even 100% sure she'd died before this episode.
@@jaypeakay5864 The beginning of this episode was the end of the last episode, so they had no problem saying she died in commercials during the week.
@@Buffy8FanThat sucks. I was honestly about 75% sure she was gonna be fine after the previous episode.
@@jaypeakay5864 Before the Internet (when it came to TV) the commercials were how viewers saw when the next episode was coming (a new episode or a repeat). They could easily con you in terms of, in this, case whether or not Joyce was alive (as the rare good trailers still do (tell you what's going on while making you think something else). But by this point in the series Joss had earned the reputation George RR Martin has (Jenny Calendar, Kendra, Angel [to some degree - as he was resurected, and in my opinion never actually died] and any crying moment where people didn't die [such as Angel losing his soul and Oz leaving town] just made him the writer we knew would do that when most other TV was still afraid to or just doing so for May sweeps). So, fans knew based off Joyce's recent health issues and Joss' writing, she was gone at the end of the previous based on the episode. That's why they felt comfortable advertising it. Fans just knew. It wasn't a suprise meant to be hopeful, nor was it meant to be. It was grief even before the episode aired. Only the next generation (of which you are a part in this situation) had hope to Joyce's situation.
best hour of tv about death, one of the best episodes of any tv show
I'm not gonna argue with it, honestly.
They're wearing purple shirt! I can't believe you're wearing royal to The Body what do you think you're the king of everything in reactions? Huh huh!? Haha
If memory serves, Joss wrote this episode after the loss of his own mother. So he was able to pour a lot of his own emotions (the surrealness of it all, the numbness, the shock and strangeness of the entire event, the way the mind goes to crazy places, and of course the grief) into each and every scene.
So we've already had Hush where they got rid of the dialogue. This was the other experimental episode where (aside from some diegetic music) there is no music. It's all just pure reactions and emotions. If I remember correctly it was nominated for an Emmy but there was a screw-up and it was left off the ballot.
Wow, really? That sounds deliberate, like someone didn't want it to win, or wanted something else to win. Very fishy.
This is the first reaction i saw that had a similar mindset to mine. Until the very last second i thought that by some miracle, Joyce was gonna come back to life again. And i think this is the brilliance of this episode, for that reason exactly. It relies on the supernatural so much that the audience forgets about the "natural". Logic would dictate in any other scenario, that we'd consider natural causes for her death first and just accept it, but here we have to rule out all the supernatural possible causes and spend this whole episode wondering, crying or in denial until we actually find out that it "just happened" and it's final. When i first watched it, i remember i didn't cry at the beginning, cause i was too shocked, devastated and confused, but broke down during Anya's speech, cause that's where the reality of the episode sunk in. I felt her "I don't understand" to my core and accepted the events of the episode as true. But even when Dawn went in the morgue and the vampire's body rose up, I gasped in joy thinking it was Joyce, somehow. I even forgot this show had vampires in it. So I understand your reaction and I actually relate to it a lot!
This is by far, in my opinion, the best episode of a show ever created, certainly the best depiction of death and grief I've seen in cinema and on a technical level it's perfect too. Just a terrifying, horrendous masterpiece.
Same here- first two watches of this episode (and only two, actually)... I didn't cry, was just terrified and uncomfortable (those sorts of emotions just seriously inhibit tears from me... two branches of the nervous system clashing). During this reaction, I was still almost too anxious to cry, but my right eye did leak a couple of times.
I lost my best friend several years ago. The way Buffy reacted to finding her mom (including the disassociation) was exactly my own reaction to finding him. SMG’s acting throughout this episode is amazing! This is one episode I can only watch after I’ve prepped myself for grief.
Aw, thanks for offering some additional context for your reaction, and for acknowledging your wish that it could've gone differently. You're only human! Sometimes our viewing experience is less-than-ideal, and that's just how it goes. I appreciate you sharing this anyway, even if you don't feel awesome about how it went.
Haha, thanks. I thought I'd get that in there first in case everyone piled in on me; it was a self-preservation thing. 😂
You do not have to perform the reactions. So no worries. You did absolutely fine by the way. But nice to give some more context.
Thanks, Sebastian. 👍 There is pressure to 'get it right.' I guess that comes from the reactor, rather than those watching. I say that, but I seem to _always_ get _something _wrong, so I don't even know why I bother worrying about it 😂
This episode is so brutal. It captures the experience of grief in the face of a sudden death too well. It’s uncomfortable to watch. Especially if you’ve experienced that kind of bone crushing grief. You do disassociate quite a lot. So many things run through your mind.
I usually skip this episode in rewatches. Not because it’s bad, but because it’s good - it’s a tremendous achievement in television that I never want to watch. Just brilliant.
To me, the vampire in the morgue at the end of the episode drives home the meaning of what it is to be human. The big bad in that morgue wasn’t the vampire. It was death, a condition all of us will deal with at some point in our lives.
I agree. I thought it specifically captured the fallout from 'sudden' death so well. Any death is hard to deal with, but when it's completely unexpected, it's like the world has just been pulled from under your feet. 💔
After watching it twice, I also skip this episode in re-watches. I was actually very very anxious just to watch this reaction.
@0:00 "I've convinced myself that there was gonna e a twist to this whole Joyce being dead thing."
"Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt." True Lies
Denial is an early stage of grief, so you have clearly started to go through the stages of grief for Joyce-Shock, Denial (you are here), Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Testing, Acceptance.
Plus, I know this damn show! Haha. Or at least I thought I did. 😲
First, regarding the art class; sure, the fact they were drawing a body isn’t a coincidence. But also, there’s what the teacher said: the drawing assignment was negative space; drawing what /isn’t/ there. It only took me a dozen or so viewings to spot that.
Lastly (for what it’s worth) I’ll echo what others have said; your experience with the show (and this episode in particular) is…well, yours. Performant reactions are, by definition, a lie; I much prefer your experience/explanations to the alternative.
Yes, negative space, people's reactions while being in the void of something that was there and now is gone.
Oh, that's good! I hadn't picked up on that. I seem to remember that I was talking (or thinking hard, lol) during that scene. I doubt I'd have realised that even so. Good catch. 👏
Thanks. I'll always just be myself during reactions, I'm too old and tired to 'perform' anyway, haha. Sometimes people will hate me for it, but hey-ho, not everyone's gonna like what you do/say, or just you in general, haha.
Willows nose started bleeding Immediately. after Glori disappeared. She hadn't been hit by Glori. It was the spell 100% the spell gave her a nosebleed. Joyce had a brain tumor brain tumors are in your brain. They can cause all kinds of things to happen cognitively, psychologically. She could have been feverish from the cancer and then she could have also been you can get brain damage or swelling on the brain.
Its like when Buffy had to go into that trance and then Because she was in an altered state she was able to notice dawn was not quite right. I think Joyce experienced a similar situation. She was in a different state of mind so that she became aware that something was ofd with Dawn. Cazy people can kind of notice that dawn is out of place that she doesn't look right or doesn't seem right, and so I think that's what Is it's just that Joyce. So has nothing To Do with magic Lori she's just genuinely second?
It's just what I'm sad parts of life when things happen like that and yet glory also happens to brain suck people But that clearly leaves them crazy for ever so Joyce would've never come back if she had been messed with my Glory She would have been bonkers the whole time.
That's pure Joss whedon there....and it gets worse 😢
Noooooooooooo. 😬
It's ok. I refused to believe it was a natural death, at first.
My second viewing was easier to understand everything explained.
I was shocked that Joyce died like that. It wouldn’t be so shocking if it was Glory or a demon doing it.
For me a good reaction = genuine reaction.
So you did good 😊
Thanks, man. 👍It was by far the worst death yet, and at the same time it was by far the least violent. It was even more impactful for that reason. It would've been so easy/typical to have given her a dramatic death by vampire. It stands out for being so untypical for this show, and so _real_ for that too.
@@jaypeakay5864 true. Very impactful.
Yes I also almost forgot the credits roll at the worst time at the beginning. I am just so stressed out so far- yes same as you said "I don't want to watch this".. but I am still going to watch it (and get it over with).
All ypur reasonings and everything you were saying was actually correct luke about it being bright and things juat going on. Its just your overall denial that you refused to see it for what it was. But we all didn't want it to be true.
Definitely a 10. And your reaction was perfectly reasonable.
As hard as you are on yourself about your reaction you still caught a lot of what was happening. It’s a tough one. People react in all different ways.
Thanks, Helen. It's easier to be hard on yourself when you know how the full reaction went. 🤦♂Editing is truly a miracle of our age. 😂 I appreciate you saying that, though, because I was convinced that even this edit hadn't saved it, haha.
Final comment (after having finished your reaction)... I am definitely going to go hang out and hug etc, my mom for the rest of the night and future days too!
It seems the cinematography really worked on you and making everything seems outerwordly. When you are experiencing trauma life can seem too real and unreal at the same time.
Yeah, it's just a shame that I misinterpreted it for something else for much of the episode. 🤦
Thank goodness it's over (am writing this before I watch your outro)... although I don't like the next episode much either. I didn't read all the comments yet, but I did see some of yours where you suggested it was a "bad" reaction, but I honestly do not think your reaction was bad at all. Any honest reaction is a good reaction. Plus there are SO many different actual reactions to horrible events such as these.
Haha. Well, thanks. You didn't see the full reaction. 😂
@@jaypeakay5864 I bet I still would have liked or at least appreciated it :P
It has been a while since I saw this episode (or a reaction to this episode). I am writing this comment during your intro, so I haven't quite watched your reaction yet. I only saw this episode twice while watching with my mom, then we always skip it when we watch Buffy. But they did do this episode very well. In a realistic, horrible way.