I never thought MoP would be good and it turned out to be my favorite expansion. Throne of Thunder is my favorite raid ever, but that might be b/c it was where I got my realm firsts. Still, Lei Shen was freaking awesome and the classes felt so good.
Lei Shen was the pinnacle of blizzard creativity. He was a villain that showed up out of nowhere, was relevant lorewise and throughout the patch, and finishing him off was satisfying (Everything the Jailer wish he was). The fight was great, well tuned, you could build-a-bear the mechanics. 11/10
For me the best end raid boss in the game is -- Blackhand. The fight is only 7-8 minutes (which is noticeable not much for average end raid bosses), still in those minutes players have to fight on THREE different arenas (phases). And yes, like Max said, the idea when you have less and less space (like a naturally visible and understandable "enrage") is awesome by itself. Best fight design ever!
@@godhand2018 People also dislike how it introduced titanforging (then thunderforging). But besides the lame pandas it was one of if not the best WoW xpac.
@@godhand2018 nah it was the world content (first xpac i didn't grind rep) and dungeons that i didn't like. WotLK is easily the best expansion and it's not even close imo.
What happened to our beloved warlock friend Sparkuggz? I remember him from Method in SoO and before. But after that I feel like he left the game? His channel there's no new content anymore.
@@MarceloFay I don't know the details, but like many people possibly didn't like the direction of the game and decided it was time to do something else. Maybe he finished school and a career was calling. Hard to say
Was the main reason I played warlock. The way he played demo in ToT was just insane. Especially on counsel fights. Definitely a legend of locks and of wow
He and Cobrak in mop are the reason I main swapped to a warlock back then and been a warlock every xpac since as well as gotten 3CE kills. It’d sad both of them stopped playing a couple xpacs ago
36:16 is where he starts listing his personal top 5, if you're not interested in hearing his evaluation of every raid. It's ok to be a heathen. I don't get it, but it's ok if you are.
Dragon Soul apart from being my first raid experience was amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed everything up to Spine. Guild got walled there. 10/10 amazing and yes MoP was best expac. Also Vizier was unreal amounts of fun. This popped up so figured I'd give it a watch and it was great. Lots of nostalgia! Fun fact I solo'd 70% of Iron Juggernaut on normal helping a friends raid as destro warlock back then. Specs were so much fun.
Antorus has (in my opinion) the two coolest bossfights in aggramar and argus. Just so amazing, maybe im a little biased because it was the first expansion i really actively played wow but damn theyre so good
Class trinkets from archimonde is something we’ll never get to experience again. It was like a second set of tier bonuses. I still have my Druid’s Seed of Creation as a token to remember the time it was fun to play around with it.
i tanked throughout tbc, wotlk, and half of cata. I then stopped playing after our guild died (while I was on my first ever break from the game - 2 months :x). I always pushed damage/threat as hard as possible, and once progression was over I would try (and usually get) top ranks on all fights as a tank (and during late tbc there was an obscure site that solely tracked tank TPS that I used). I had a diff gearset for like every single boss. Min/max, ultimate tryhard, lol... That said, I had some ppl from my guild who continued to play through MoP tell me I stopped playing at the wrong time, lol. That MoP tanking was like made for me. I regret not playing that xpac (and WoD/Legion as well)..... MoP seems like it would have been a blast as a prot warrior.... :/
@@intuit13 Yeah, i regret to confirm that, MoP tanking was a blast for tanks who enjoyed pushing damage, in fact tanks more often than not would be top overall damage on most prog fights, bc dmg taken directly correlated to your own dmg done. MoP, and by extension, WoD was the pinnacle of class design and gameplay. Legion was alright too, but it's been a slippery slope since then of them devoting far less time to class desgn and gameplay, and more to external system. Many classes as of now have very defunct, underdeveloped talent trees, some talents never being used for years bc Blizz won't address how imbalanced or out of tuning they are. Makes me sad
I raised heroic in MoP and did heroic and some mythic in legion. For me it's a tie between nighthold and ToT. Throne of thunder classes were so damn great and the raid was amazing. On the other hand Nighthold I enjoyed every boss greatly.
MoP best expac with ToT being the best raid. Could not agree more. Would go back anytime to play fury warrior in those glory days. Probably would come out with carpal tunnel but I would love every second of it
@@Jeryyyyyy875 It was absolutely groundbreaking at the time, a massive step up in terms of the raid content of WoW. Agree that by modern standards it's not special, but it kept that spot as genuinely the best raid the game had ever seen for almost two expansions.
Ulduar def best raid every, but you didnt experience it which sucks. Blackhand also one of the best bosses for sure, I remember playing boomkin and flapping my way into the ledges to kill adds.
You also have to consider tier and available gear. While HFC may be a moderate raid from a design and balance stance, the trinkets and tier sets were exceptionally designed. The Archimonde Trinkets felt like another 4 pc set bonus for some classes while many of the actual 4 pc tier sets were rotation changers. Without the gear, HFC ranks in the bottom half on my list but with the gear and state of the game, HFC is easily top 8.
MoP was the best expansion ever. I was Prot Pally at the time (which I've recently gone back to), and vengeance was fucking amazing. Healers didn't have to bother healing me, and I topped DPS quite a lot. Completely broken, but also the most fun I've ever had in the game, and killing Heroic Garrosh was one of the most satisfying kills ever. And class design in WoD was completely pristine, as were the raids. WoD Marksman was just simply incredible, and has never been better.
My favorite raids from experience over 15 years are BRF, SoO, ulduar, naxx from classic and mc. MC first raid I cleared and did it for months. Great times
Blackrock Foundry was a fucking masterpiece (except Maidens P1). The only issue I had was that you required a minimum of 2 hunters for progression, and needed 3 to be competitive. There was also a lot of cheese on strats for Blackhand (rogue tanks and monk tanks, namely), but people seriously overblew the MC strat on Blast Furnace.
ICC will always be my favorite raid of all time. Just because when it was current I wasn't playing wow but my dad did, and once he and his raid progressed through the raid and finally ended up at the last boss I thought it was the coolest thing I've ever seen in any game. The lich king will always have a special place in my heart for several reason it's without question the coolest end boss and most famous one of all time that's not even a debate, and the boss when it was current from what I've heard was really difficult which makes bosses more rewarding and fun once you defeat them. and the raid itself is cool as hell and just a treat to go back to from time to time and really appreciate how good the raid and the expansion really was.
I can't really talk for some WOD and Legion raids cuz i didn't progress them (took a break from WoW) but for me it's: 5. ICC. It was my first ever raid and it was one of my best experiences 4. SoO. MoP was great and my enhancement shaman was blasting back in the day (i miss my Cathien) 3. Brf. Amazing Raid, amazing boss fights. 2. BoT. Idk why but this raid...i just love the theme, the boss fights. I miss my frost dk :( 1. ToT. Listen to Max. He said it perfectly. Let me know your top 5 raids guys. I wanna read your opinions why you love your top 5 raids.
Kinda sad Paragon didn't get a shout out for solo healing their WF Lei Shen, but yah, I agree with a lot of your ranking. Whenever I need to prove my raiding prowress I just say that I was on the conveyor team for Mythic Blackfuse. I've never min/maxed every GCD as much as that fight...except for maybe Kruul, the tank mage tower. Edit: "Crucible. Small raid. Not in anyone's top 5." In the post RWF interviews, 7 of the people interviewed ranked Crucible of Storms as the best raid of all time. The whole 14 warlocks thing was weird though, right?
I think you're thinking of them solo healing world first Garrosh, not Lei Shen. I also solo healed Garrosh for realm first as disc, but I'm just astounded that Jhazrun was able to do it as holy. He's easily the best priest that's ever existed.
Sinestra was the first unknown boss put after a final boss. Fun fact sinestra was not in the dungeon journal on release. Algalon was a known about fight. Another strong point was how bugged the sinestra fight was i mean it truly was a hidden thing. When alg was being attempted for world first he worked from day 1 properly from being tested. What makes it seem that way was how hard firefighter was which was required to get to alg and he had a 1 hour timer. Where sinestra could be gotten too once heroic cho feel and had no limited attempts. If you never seen some of the original kill videos of that fight its one of the best blizzard ever made. And i think really lends to the whole secret mythic phase etc thats expected today because they did such a knockout job keeping her hidden such a epic moment in the game falling down and seeing her for the first time
I progged ilgynoth with 2 different guilds once as no dispel and once dispelling (post nerfs) and I can only imagine how cool and tough the wf prog was. Fight was infinitely more interesting when things got dispelled. No dispel has a unique twist when people are bad making the fight really tense but like actually a joke when people just don't be idiots.
I hated MoP because they killed talent trees and cemented spec templates and also because Dragon Soul murdered all my expectations for the Game, same with WoD. Shame because both expacs had baller raids, glad i came back in time for Nighthold though.
Yeah your list is the exact same as mine assuming you start at cata. There are only 2 real criticism of mop neither I think affected it enough. First was the 'pandalul' criticism and the second was the insane amount of daily questing at the start. Neither were about raiding. TOT and SOO were 2 fire raids back to back and honestly, the first sets of raids were pretty good too, just not to the same level.
The dailies killed it for me. Everything else was lit as fuck but doing like 3 hours of dailies every day for rep for 2 months and I just unsubbed after we cleared Heart of Fear/Terrace. Sucks too because I missed ToT and Siege :(
I wish Dragon Soul had a Heroic only last boss where after he was blown up by green Jesus, his human form falls straight into Deepholm where the expansion starts off (in the trailer) and we get a 12mins fight of sheer insanity where we try to kill Neltharion once and for all.. I wouldn't mind Spine and Madness so much if we got that as an end boss
@@BrynTheWizard I actually never farmed the arcanocrystal. I wasn't too focused on being super optimal and was still at the point where I just used a stat priority and wildly guessing on trinkets. Wasn't until I quit after beating KJ that I discovered how OP AC apparently STILL was. (You can probably guess from the fact that I didn't even bother to figure out what was the best trinket for practically everyone, but I was not in a mythic guild)
I'd like to see a ranking of End/penultimate/mid-raid wall bosses separately, also factoring in the last 2 tiers of SL, b/c while those raids aren't making anyone's S-tier, they had some great moments. Like, SotFO was a pretty lame raid in a lot of respects, but Halondrus was one of the hardest mid-raid bosses ever, and I know a lot of people think Anduin is just as good/better than many end bosses. Sylvanas was pretty polarizing b/c it was such a long fight, but in spite of it being grueling, it was an awesome fight. That said, I hated most of the rest of SoD, also caveat being that I am an AotC Andy and a wow zoomer who merely watches RWF, so my perspective is a little distorted.
Its interesting how different raid perception is for mythic raiders. Highmaul, HFC are raids i thorougly enjoyed on Heroic. Sanctum of domination too. But BRF, Emerald Nightmare, Dazar Alor.. those werent that fun in heroic except for one or 2 specific bosses. When i did SoO on heroic i didnt quite enjoy it but then going mythic i loved it. Most bosses are fun to do.
i hope they do classic mop... id actually play that. i was on deployment when it first came out and i was crushed. i came back and lost my guild and just fumbled around got bored and just stopped raiding...
Dragon soul was the last raid I did above lfr so it gets my affection. Wish I could get back into casually raiding but everyone I encounter lately is so focused on doing everything the “best” ways
That's kind of the point of doing progression raiding, yeah. Doing it the best/most efficient way possible lol. There's a ton of casual guilds pushing Heroic though, so if you're not able to find those you're just not looking in the right places.
@@fozgoth you’re probably right about not looking in the right place haha I mainly was referring to needing experience to get an invite and as a rogue not many want you in my experience
Just when I thought I was alone in the TOT best raid list and also HFC which was by far such a good raid that I raided on like 8 toons just to do that place over and over each week...and that was aside from guild mythic and heroic
We had a bug in DS, the ball bouncy boss ... the balls werent spawning but the effect was going off so we were just randomly dying. The next day I ask a mate from another guild... he shows me the kill vid.. :D we nerd screamed on that, and we were a pre nerf raggy guild
I could arguse otherwise - when you said "class design was at best in wow history in MOP" - the argument is simple - every class could do anything - any class could heal, any class could increase his movement speed, every class could do EVERYTHING other classes could - so classes lost their identiy and they never felt unique. In every wow exp i play different - in mop i was playing PvP - every caster had a standard 150k mana, no less, no more. Intelect didnt matter to mana anymore. From a pvp perspective - my resto dudu needed aprox 120k (150k was max) mana to heal up my arms warrior partener in arena - from 10% hp to 100% hp. Mop had some amazing features addes to the game - but it felt dull, classes were not unique - a lot of fixed needed during that time - monk - hunter and other classes needed a lot of bug fixes. I never did hardcore raiding so i dont have an opinion about that - maybe you`re right. I just have some ahead of the curve achiv on like Archi - Kil Jaden - Jaina etc. Im talking as a casual player doing stuff in wow.
I progressed Il'gynoth with the cheese tactic, and I didn't like it mainly because it was one of the two fights in all of BfA where my RL had me go boomie (I main feral), the other was Zek'vozz.
We dispelled on Ilgynoth. I still didn't find it nearly as interesting as EN Ilgynoth from a mechanics and design point. Granted we dispelled at a point where most people were just ignoring it and our gear allowed the Warlocks to even help with dispels without worrying about falling behind in dps but it's just not a fight I enjoyed. It didn't help that we had to clear what are arguably some of the worst 2 fights they have ever made just to open up Ilgynoth. We avoided the hole entirely after 4 Ilgynoth kills.
One more question - Max talks about how SLG is the worst penultimate boss in the game period and moves on. I've watched quite a few of his videos and haven't seen him talk about this before (granted I haven't watched him stream) - can anyone enlighten me as to why OR point me to where he talks about this? I"m fascinated by all of this.
Imagine Legion wasn't as grindy. Instead of Echo we could have whole Serenity still raiding with Sparkuggz, Kuznam and other people. Maybe even Paragon could've reformed considering a lot of their core members still raided after they disbanded.
I still put Kara over ICC, the gated release, and the mid tier bosses were meh. Kara was a masterpiece. My personal top 5 would be 1. Ulduar, 2. Kara, 3. ToT, 4. ICC, 5. BRF
@@MegamanGaming Kara was trash in TBC classic imo. But IDK if it was much different on the original release. It was trash because it is just so boring and no fun at all.
@@aaronomary8089 No shit. Classic is garbage. You can't compare TBC content from when it was relevant to 14 years later when it's been fully optimized and speed run. Don't be a donut.
I didn't like Dragonsoul because I solo tanked heroic on a blood dk with full gladiator gear, parry capped. Going from Firelands that was hard to an easy raid was really a letdown.
@@tHeeNr4g3 I mean he's not wrong. Raiding back then was *maybe* half as hard as it is now. Anything from before Cata doesn't even come close to comparing to Mythic raids of today.
@@kyoden1928 WOD was when Celestalon killed windwalker. WW started the xpac strong, and there were some hacks you could use to make it stronger, but then they quadruple nerfed it after they also fixed the hacks. It was so stupidly ridiculous it made me quit wow.
@@enhancedcalm ya but thats just numbers not a gameplay issue, the class was fun to play just nerfed in numbers LEGION in the other hand, removed chi torpedo dmg/chi burst/ JAB ZZ and a bunch of cool shit we had even changed TOD to be a "burst" pepega shit
Limit Max: "If you think Nighthold is better then Throne of Thunder you are a zoomer and you didn´t play MoP" Proceeds to put the Ulduar copy raid above Ulduar because he didn´t play WotLK! xD
I killed and did the RL on il'gynoth the non cheese way ( dispell when the circle is the smallest ), and I still hate it, but... we had 9 melee players and couldn't recruit to switch the comp, so I guess that didn't help ? :/
I agree that MoP was one of the best expansions for class design. I played Blood DK at the time, semi raidleading, and it was a blast. Things were so nice.
i loved SoO and ToT, this was my progression times. Sparkuggz is a legend and made me the best WL on my realm that time. Miss MoP times, was my fav expansion so far, really close followed by WotLK. I feel like Shadowlands is going to be great, the first raid was okayish, but lets see what comes next.
The reason everyone hated Madness of Deathwing was because all you did was clip Deathwing's toenails and then Green Jesus came out of nowhere and one-shotted the damn boss.
a shame you werent around for WOTLK, ULDUAR is a lot of peoples GOAT. class design was great, although not as good as MOP and it was just an overall great time.
IDK, Class design didn't really come into its own until Cata if you ask me. Like at that point Marksmanship was basically Aimed/Arcane Shot depending on Armour Pen rating -> Chim Shot -> Steady Shot until Aimed/Arcane was off CD -> repeat, Elemental didn't really have anything engaging to do. Balance didn't even have a real identity other than "Chicken Man"
@@koalakakes I think many people will disagree with you. Having complex rotations plus complex boss mechanics really allows you to separate the fat on who's a good player and who isn't. If testing your skill isn't your priority in this game then that's cool, but for lots and lots of people it's a massive step up to have specs where you actually have to think about what you're doing. This game would be dead in the water if it weren't for good spec design because honestly it's got the best in the entire genre.
My favourite Boss of all time will always be Mimiron HM 25 man. So much nostalgia of it... getting the realm first on it was just a blast. Phase 1 was kinda hard to manage to not spread the fires to far, going into phase 2 having boomkins offhealing to actually survive the nasty dot, phase 3 going back to managing the fires and somehow saving space for last phase ... Just... Nice
I believe that Heroic Ragnaros was regarded as being the hardest boss in WoW's history up until that point, and it kind of set the tone going forward. I could be wrong on that, though.
It was a massive step up in difficulty. If Ragnaros was an end boss in modern wow it would still be hard for most guilds. That’s not true of any boss before him Before Ragnaros it was normal for all semi serious raiding guilds to clear everything on the hardest difficulty. Rag was the start of that just not being the case. It wrath you could kill heroic LK with a good 10 bad players in your guild. By Rag you really couldn’t carry idiots anymore
I never thought MoP would be good and it turned out to be my favorite expansion. Throne of Thunder is my favorite raid ever, but that might be b/c it was where I got my realm firsts. Still, Lei Shen was freaking awesome and the classes felt so good.
What realm? :)
@@harleysnook3514 got really quiet in here haha
Woah, realm first? Siiiiick.
Lei Shen was the pinnacle of blizzard creativity. He was a villain that showed up out of nowhere, was relevant lorewise and throughout the patch, and finishing him off was satisfying (Everything the Jailer wish he was). The fight was great, well tuned, you could build-a-bear the mechanics. 11/10
For me the best end raid boss in the game is -- Blackhand. The fight is only 7-8 minutes (which is noticeable not much for average end raid bosses), still in those minutes players have to fight on THREE different arenas (phases). And yes, like Max said, the idea when you have less and less space (like a naturally visible and understandable "enrage") is awesome by itself. Best fight design ever!
“You guys deserve more polishes bosses.”
Next tier.
“Here’s Stone Legion Generals.”
I liked the video when he said MoP was the best expansion.
It's true tbh. Was amazing visually and gameplay wise. Spergs just hate on it because "muh Pandas"
same
@@godhand2018 People also dislike how it introduced titanforging (then thunderforging). But besides the lame pandas it was one of if not the best WoW xpac.
@@blackopsy9 in fairness the items only had a chance to be upgraded once with those systems and not the infinite upgrade garbage they added later
@@godhand2018 nah it was the world content (first xpac i didn't grind rep) and dungeons that i didn't like. WotLK is easily the best expansion and it's not even close imo.
"After Sludgefist you go straight to Denathrius" I laughed so loud it startled my dogs.
Shout out to Sparkuggs. One of the greatest of all time.
What happened to our beloved warlock friend Sparkuggz? I remember him from Method in SoO and before. But after that I feel like he left the game? His channel there's no new content anymore.
@@MarceloFay I don't know the details, but like many people possibly didn't like the direction of the game and decided it was time to do something else. Maybe he finished school and a career was calling. Hard to say
Was the main reason I played warlock. The way he played demo in ToT was just insane. Especially on counsel fights. Definitely a legend of locks and of wow
He and Cobrak in mop are the reason I main swapped to a warlock back then and been a warlock every xpac since as well as gotten 3CE kills.
It’d sad both of them stopped playing a couple xpacs ago
Dude ur videos are so enjoyable
36:16 is where he starts listing his personal top 5, if you're not interested in hearing his evaluation of every raid. It's ok to be a heathen. I don't get it, but it's ok if you are.
Dragon Soul apart from being my first raid experience was amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed everything up to Spine. Guild got walled there. 10/10 amazing and yes MoP was best expac. Also Vizier was unreal amounts of fun. This popped up so figured I'd give it a watch and it was great. Lots of nostalgia! Fun fact I solo'd 70% of Iron Juggernaut on normal helping a friends raid as destro warlock back then. Specs were so much fun.
Antorus has (in my opinion) the two coolest bossfights in aggramar and argus. Just so amazing, maybe im a little biased because it was the first expansion i really actively played wow but damn theyre so good
For sure
Class trinkets from archimonde is something we’ll never get to experience again. It was like a second set of tier bonuses. I still have my Druid’s Seed of Creation as a token to remember the time it was fun to play around with it.
Sparkuggz was one of the greatest players to ever touch the Warlock class. Respect
what happened to Sparkuggz?
@@ungface quit in middle of Trial of valor raid
MoP was my favourite expansion, I was a tank back then and it was so much fun. Haven't tanked since, it's just not the same anymore.
same here. I tanked thru Legion, but it's ruined for me. MoP was everything
i tanked throughout tbc, wotlk, and half of cata. I then stopped playing after our guild died (while I was on my first ever break from the game - 2 months :x). I always pushed damage/threat as hard as possible, and once progression was over I would try (and usually get) top ranks on all fights as a tank (and during late tbc there was an obscure site that solely tracked tank TPS that I used). I had a diff gearset for like every single boss. Min/max, ultimate tryhard, lol... That said, I had some ppl from my guild who continued to play through MoP tell me I stopped playing at the wrong time, lol. That MoP tanking was like made for me. I regret not playing that xpac (and WoD/Legion as well)..... MoP seems like it would have been a blast as a prot warrior.... :/
@@intuit13 Yeah, i regret to confirm that, MoP tanking was a blast for tanks who enjoyed pushing damage, in fact tanks more often than not would be top overall damage on most prog fights, bc dmg taken directly correlated to your own dmg done. MoP, and by extension, WoD was the pinnacle of class design and gameplay. Legion was alright too, but it's been a slippery slope since then of them devoting far less time to class desgn and gameplay, and more to external system. Many classes as of now have very defunct, underdeveloped talent trees, some talents never being used for years bc Blizz won't address how imbalanced or out of tuning they are. Makes me sad
I got so much mad nostalgia on this video. Loved it!
You've mentioned the top trinkets list a few times, upload that one some time please!
I raised heroic in MoP and did heroic and some mythic in legion. For me it's a tie between nighthold and ToT. Throne of thunder classes were so damn great and the raid was amazing. On the other hand Nighthold I enjoyed every boss greatly.
MoP best expac with ToT being the best raid. Could not agree more. Would go back anytime to play fury warrior in those glory days. Probably would come out with carpal tunnel but I would love every second of it
sucks he missed out on Ulduar. Absolutely next level raid. Still is most people's #1
True. Also my favorite raid of all time. But i also love ICC, Throne of Thunder, SoO, even AQ.. So many great raids..
Will always be my #1, nothing can come close to Ulduar.
Icc and ulduar are definitely my favourite two
Ulduar was nothing special and is remembered fondly from nostalgia, and pretty much nothing else.
@@Jeryyyyyy875 It was absolutely groundbreaking at the time, a massive step up in terms of the raid content of WoW. Agree that by modern standards it's not special, but it kept that spot as genuinely the best raid the game had ever seen for almost two expansions.
Argus is such an underated final boss IMO, especially with the great class design is legion
I don't think any raid will recreate the experience Ulduar gave me. Rose-tinted no doubt but wow... what a time.
My top5
5. Sunwell (absolutely hated the time gating though)
4. Blackrock Foundry
3. Throne of Thunder
2. Hellfire Citadel
1. Ulduar
Ulduar not being in his top 5 is just baffling to me
You didn’t raid Sunwell if you put that garbage in the top 5.
DUDE THIS GUY IS SO GOOD!!!
I really hope he finds a good guild to play with
Maaan. This reminded me that I took a break from wow just before doing blackhand. We had blast furnace and blackhand left. I loved highmaul and brf
Ulduar def best raid every, but you didnt experience it which sucks. Blackhand also one of the best bosses for sure, I remember playing boomkin and flapping my way into the ledges to kill adds.
You also have to consider tier and available gear. While HFC may be a moderate raid from a design and balance stance, the trinkets and tier sets were exceptionally designed. The Archimonde Trinkets felt like another 4 pc set bonus for some classes while many of the actual 4 pc tier sets were rotation changers. Without the gear, HFC ranks in the bottom half on my list but with the gear and state of the game, HFC is easily top 8.
Best trinkets ever made
I'd say BRF should be nr 2, and Nighthold down to 4. Blackhand is just outstanding. Other than that it's exactly like my top 5
MoP was the best expansion ever. I was Prot Pally at the time (which I've recently gone back to), and vengeance was fucking amazing. Healers didn't have to bother healing me, and I topped DPS quite a lot.
Completely broken, but also the most fun I've ever had in the game, and killing Heroic Garrosh was one of the most satisfying kills ever.
And class design in WoD was completely pristine, as were the raids. WoD Marksman was just simply incredible, and has never been better.
You probably didn't play WOTLK
@@wow1938 I've been playing since Vanilla.
My favorite raids from experience over 15 years are BRF, SoO, ulduar, naxx from classic and mc. MC first raid I cleared and did it for months. Great times
Blackrock Foundry was a fucking masterpiece (except Maidens P1). The only issue I had was that you required a minimum of 2 hunters for progression, and needed 3 to be competitive. There was also a lot of cheese on strats for Blackhand (rogue tanks and monk tanks, namely), but people seriously overblew the MC strat on Blast Furnace.
ICC will always be my favorite raid of all time. Just because when it was current I wasn't playing wow but my dad did, and once he and his raid progressed through the raid and finally ended up at the last boss I thought it was the coolest thing I've ever seen in any game. The lich king will always have a special place in my heart for several reason it's without question the coolest end boss and most famous one of all time that's not even a debate, and the boss when it was current from what I've heard was really difficult which makes bosses more rewarding and fun once you defeat them. and the raid itself is cool as hell and just a treat to go back to from time to time and really appreciate how good the raid and the expansion really was.
Bruh the moment he said mop best expansion ever I smashed that like and subscribe button
I can't really talk for some WOD and Legion raids cuz i didn't progress them (took a break from WoW) but for me it's:
5. ICC. It was my first ever raid and it was one of my best experiences
4. SoO. MoP was great and my enhancement shaman was blasting back in the day (i miss my Cathien)
3. Brf. Amazing Raid, amazing boss fights.
2. BoT. Idk why but this raid...i just love the theme, the boss fights. I miss my frost dk :(
1. ToT. Listen to Max. He said it perfectly.
Let me know your top 5 raids guys. I wanna read your opinions why you love your top 5 raids.
I love the wod dungeons. So fun.
Blackrock Foundry still my favorite raid
Most beautiful dungeons for the most part
Hell ya a fellow MOP lover, best expansion imo
Kinda sad Paragon didn't get a shout out for solo healing their WF Lei Shen, but yah, I agree with a lot of your ranking. Whenever I need to prove my raiding prowress I just say that I was on the conveyor team for Mythic Blackfuse. I've never min/maxed every GCD as much as that fight...except for maybe Kruul, the tank mage tower.
Edit: "Crucible. Small raid. Not in anyone's top 5." In the post RWF interviews, 7 of the people interviewed ranked Crucible of Storms as the best raid of all time. The whole 14 warlocks thing was weird though, right?
I think you're thinking of them solo healing world first Garrosh, not Lei Shen. I also solo healed Garrosh for realm first as disc, but I'm just astounded that Jhazrun was able to do it as holy. He's easily the best priest that's ever existed.
@@hawkman8706 Oh, forgot about that! And I'm pretty sure they solo healed Lei Shen too, as disc. Freaking my little pony penance weak aura lol
@@WtbgoldBlogspot They 2 healed Lei Shen, you can see the meteres on the video, they had Jhazrun and a mistweaver as well
Sinestra was the first unknown boss put after a final boss. Fun fact sinestra was not in the dungeon journal on release. Algalon was a known about fight. Another strong point was how bugged the sinestra fight was i mean it truly was a hidden thing. When alg was being attempted for world first he worked from day 1 properly from being tested. What makes it seem that way was how hard firefighter was which was required to get to alg and he had a 1 hour timer. Where sinestra could be gotten too once heroic cho feel and had no limited attempts. If you never seen some of the original kill videos of that fight its one of the best blizzard ever made. And i think really lends to the whole secret mythic phase etc thats expected today because they did such a knockout job keeping her hidden such a epic moment in the game falling down and seeing her for the first time
Personal top 5 (skipped Cata, MoP and most of WoD): 5) Battle of Dazar'Alor; 4) Antorus the Burning Throne; 3) ICC; 2) Ulduar; 1) Nighthold
I progged ilgynoth with 2 different guilds once as no dispel and once dispelling (post nerfs) and I can only imagine how cool and tough the wf prog was. Fight was infinitely more interesting when things got dispelled. No dispel has a unique twist when people are bad making the fight really tense but like actually a joke when people just don't be idiots.
Real solid review my guy
Nothing beats Blackhand fight. Dude, awesome fight.
I hated MoP because they killed talent trees and cemented spec templates and also because Dragon Soul murdered all my expectations for the Game, same with WoD. Shame because both expacs had baller raids, glad i came back in time for Nighthold though.
Yeah your list is the exact same as mine assuming you start at cata. There are only 2 real criticism of mop neither I think affected it enough. First was the 'pandalul' criticism and the second was the insane amount of daily questing at the start. Neither were about raiding. TOT and SOO were 2 fire raids back to back and honestly, the first sets of raids were pretty good too, just not to the same level.
The dailies killed it for me. Everything else was lit as fuck but doing like 3 hours of dailies every day for rep for 2 months and I just unsubbed after we cleared Heart of Fear/Terrace. Sucks too because I missed ToT and Siege :(
I wish Dragon Soul had a Heroic only last boss where after he was blown up by green Jesus, his human form falls straight into Deepholm where the expansion starts off (in the trailer) and we get a 12mins fight of sheer insanity where we try to kill Neltharion once and for all.. I wouldn't mind Spine and Madness so much if we got that as an end boss
My guild struggled for 60+ pulls of no dispell strat on Ilgynoth, but we killed him on the 8th pull with the dispell strat
The side platforms for Sha of Fear was literal hell to heal during progress.
"Trinket tier list"
Unstable Arcanocrystal kekw
I managed to get that Titanforged.
With a socket.
Twice.
@@BrynTheWizard I actually never farmed the arcanocrystal. I wasn't too focused on being super optimal and was still at the point where I just used a stat priority and wildly guessing on trinkets. Wasn't until I quit after beating KJ that I discovered how OP AC apparently STILL was.
(You can probably guess from the fact that I didn't even bother to figure out what was the best trinket for practically everyone, but I was not in a mythic guild)
I loved Siege of Orgrimmar but then eventually hate it cause I’ve been farming Tusks there for years.
Man I still check Spakugzz twitter from time to time. I used to play lock and was the biggest Sparkuggz fanboy. A true god gamer of his time.
I'd like to see a ranking of End/penultimate/mid-raid wall bosses separately, also factoring in the last 2 tiers of SL, b/c while those raids aren't making anyone's S-tier, they had some great moments. Like, SotFO was a pretty lame raid in a lot of respects, but Halondrus was one of the hardest mid-raid bosses ever, and I know a lot of people think Anduin is just as good/better than many end bosses. Sylvanas was pretty polarizing b/c it was such a long fight, but in spite of it being grueling, it was an awesome fight. That said, I hated most of the rest of SoD, also caveat being that I am an AotC Andy and a wow zoomer who merely watches RWF, so my perspective is a little distorted.
Its interesting how different raid perception is for mythic raiders.
Highmaul, HFC are raids i thorougly enjoyed on Heroic. Sanctum of domination too.
But BRF, Emerald Nightmare, Dazar Alor.. those werent that fun in heroic except for one or 2 specific bosses.
When i did SoO on heroic i didnt quite enjoy it but then going mythic i loved it. Most bosses are fun to do.
21:08 this is why it’s the peak. You never before and never again had so much control over your character
i hope they do classic mop... id actually play that. i was on deployment when it first came out and i was crushed. i came back and lost my guild and just fumbled around got bored and just stopped raiding...
Dragon soul was the last raid I did above lfr so it gets my affection.
Wish I could get back into casually raiding but everyone I encounter lately is so focused on doing everything the “best” ways
That's kind of the point of doing progression raiding, yeah. Doing it the best/most efficient way possible lol. There's a ton of casual guilds pushing Heroic though, so if you're not able to find those you're just not looking in the right places.
@@fozgoth you’re probably right about not looking in the right place haha I mainly was referring to needing experience to get an invite and as a rogue not many want you in my experience
Just when I thought I was alone in the TOT best raid list and also HFC which was by far such a good raid that I raided on like 8 toons just to do that place over and over each week...and that was aside from guild mythic and heroic
We had a bug in DS, the ball bouncy boss ... the balls werent spawning but the effect was going off so we were just randomly dying. The next day I ask a mate from another guild... he shows me the kill vid.. :D we nerd screamed on that, and we were a pre nerf raggy guild
Sparkuggz intro music is permanently embedded into my brain
i can see that being the case for newer players/raiders. back in wotlk the vodka intros were pretty good
I could arguse otherwise - when you said "class design was at best in wow history in MOP" - the argument is simple - every class could do anything - any class could heal, any class could increase his movement speed, every class could do EVERYTHING other classes could - so classes lost their identiy and they never felt unique.
In every wow exp i play different - in mop i was playing PvP - every caster had a standard 150k mana, no less, no more. Intelect didnt matter to mana anymore.
From a pvp perspective - my resto dudu needed aprox 120k (150k was max) mana to heal up my arms warrior partener in arena - from 10% hp to 100% hp.
Mop had some amazing features addes to the game - but it felt dull, classes were not unique - a lot of fixed needed during that time - monk - hunter and other classes needed a lot of bug fixes.
I never did hardcore raiding so i dont have an opinion about that - maybe you`re right. I just have some ahead of the curve achiv on like Archi - Kil Jaden - Jaina etc.
Im talking as a casual player doing stuff in wow.
I progressed Il'gynoth with the cheese tactic, and I didn't like it mainly because it was one of the two fights in all of BfA where my RL had me go boomie (I main feral), the other was Zek'vozz.
MOP was also my fav expansion. Peak of class design imo
I feel so validated to hear you agree they ruined Storm, Earth, and Fire with that change.
I loved mop! My mastery based ele sham was so fun
I didn’t play mop and now I’m considering going in to a private server to check it out only because of how highly u rate it
We dispelled on Ilgynoth. I still didn't find it nearly as interesting as EN Ilgynoth from a mechanics and design point. Granted we dispelled at a point where most people were just ignoring it and our gear allowed the Warlocks to even help with dispels without worrying about falling behind in dps but it's just not a fight I enjoyed. It didn't help that we had to clear what are arguably some of the worst 2 fights they have ever made just to open up Ilgynoth. We avoided the hole entirely after 4 Ilgynoth kills.
I think Algalon deserves an honorable mention as one of the best-designed fights in the game.
lol?
best boss "entry" and best boss room......maybe? fight itself was garbage
Come on it was tank spank fight with gear check.. nothing more
that first boss was epic thx for showing ;)
One more question - Max talks about how SLG is the worst penultimate boss in the game period and moves on. I've watched quite a few of his videos and haven't seen him talk about this before (granted I haven't watched him stream) - can anyone enlighten me as to why OR point me to where he talks about this? I"m fascinated by all of this.
Another banger from Max
"Heroic Ragnaros changed raiding forever", so very true!!
Imagine Legion wasn't as grindy. Instead of Echo we could have whole Serenity still raiding with Sparkuggz, Kuznam and other people. Maybe even Paragon could've reformed considering a lot of their core members still raided after they disbanded.
Somehow I doubt that would be the case.
Nice vid bro
MOP best expans ever TOT was AMAZING
It's unfortunate that you never got to experience Ulduar when it was prog, that is the height of raid design in every way. ICC second.
I still put Kara over ICC, the gated release, and the mid tier bosses were meh. Kara was a masterpiece. My personal top 5 would be 1. Ulduar, 2. Kara, 3. ToT, 4. ICC, 5. BRF
@@MegamanGaming Kara was trash in TBC classic imo. But IDK if it was much different on the original release. It was trash because it is just so boring and no fun at all.
@@aaronomary8089 No shit. Classic is garbage. You can't compare TBC content from when it was relevant to 14 years later when it's been fully optimized and speed run. Don't be a donut.
@@MegamanGaming I meant to delete this comment lol. But yeah it was garbage.
Ulduar was so cool during progessions, only those that had trys on Ignis on first week know how hard Ulduar was
I didn't like Dragonsoul because I solo tanked heroic on a blood dk with full gladiator gear, parry capped. Going from Firelands that was hard to an easy raid was really a letdown.
Calls people a Zoomer, but didn't even start raiding till Cata LUL
Username checks out
No doubt lol like he missed uludar, black temple, sunwell plateau
@@tHeeNr4g3 I mean he's not wrong. Raiding back then was *maybe* half as hard as it is now. Anything from before Cata doesn't even come close to comparing to Mythic raids of today.
@@fozgoth Sunwell prenerf is no joke. Only few hardcore raiding guilds succeed on private servers
@@osureplay2799 Encounters being absurdly overtuned is not what I'm referring to when I reference the difficulty of raiding.
Is this thundercraig?
I vividly remember doing this place, I can’t remember the bosses name hahah
Totally agree that they ruined windwalker. It used to be SO fun! Back in the MOP days.
thanks to legion, at least current ww is decent.. peak ww is WOD tho
@@kyoden1928 WOD was when Celestalon killed windwalker. WW started the xpac strong, and there were some hacks you could use to make it stronger, but then they quadruple nerfed it after they also fixed the hacks. It was so stupidly ridiculous it made me quit wow.
@@enhancedcalm ya but thats just numbers not a gameplay issue, the class was fun to play just nerfed in numbers LEGION in the other hand, removed chi torpedo dmg/chi burst/ JAB ZZ and a bunch of cool shit we had even changed TOD to be a "burst" pepega shit
Limit Max: "If you think Nighthold is better then Throne of Thunder you are a zoomer and you didn´t play MoP"
Proceeds to put the Ulduar copy raid above Ulduar because he didn´t play WotLK! xD
Throne of Thunder > Ulduar, because of class design
@@Ruffy10100 It´s more about how ironic that statement is. Not about the actual raid/list.
@@Ruffy10100 both are absolutely insane raids.. Good old times..
Ulduar was not a great raid.
I killed and did the RL on il'gynoth the non cheese way ( dispell when the circle is the smallest ), and I still hate it, but... we had 9 melee players and couldn't recruit to switch the comp, so I guess that didn't help ? :/
Why didnt u include anything before Cata?
Heroic Ragnaros
I agree that MoP was one of the best expansions for class design. I played Blood DK at the time, semi raidleading, and it was a blast. Things were so nice.
this guy is something else man
i loved SoO and ToT, this was my progression times. Sparkuggz is a legend and made me the best WL on my realm that time. Miss MoP times, was my fav expansion so far, really close followed by WotLK. I feel like Shadowlands is going to be great, the first raid was okayish, but lets see what comes next.
classic cata to legion server would be so dope
The reason everyone hated Madness of Deathwing was because all you did was clip Deathwing's toenails and then Green Jesus came out of nowhere and one-shotted the damn boss.
Maybe if Firelands hadn't been a buggy mess early on I'd talk about it changing raiding.
Too bad you didn't play WOTLK you probably would've liked Ulduar. The Lich King was also a good and difficult fight.
Dragon Soul best raid evar i rather enjoyed it and playing enhance sham at that time and earth shock tankin ultraixion(sp?)
Muted played liked commented like i was told dad
a shame you werent around for WOTLK, ULDUAR is a lot of peoples GOAT. class design was great, although not as good as MOP and it was just an overall great time.
IDK, Class design didn't really come into its own until Cata if you ask me. Like at that point Marksmanship was basically Aimed/Arcane Shot depending on Armour Pen rating -> Chim Shot -> Steady Shot until Aimed/Arcane was off CD -> repeat, Elemental didn't really have anything engaging to do. Balance didn't even have a real identity other than "Chicken Man"
@@Tyberes wotlk class design was fine. We dont need the overcomplex rotations we have today for it to feel good.
@@koalakakes I think many people will disagree with you. Having complex rotations plus complex boss mechanics really allows you to separate the fat on who's a good player and who isn't. If testing your skill isn't your priority in this game then that's cool, but for lots and lots of people it's a massive step up to have specs where you actually have to think about what you're doing. This game would be dead in the water if it weren't for good spec design because honestly it's got the best in the entire genre.
@@koalakakes Everything pre-cata was more of the RP garbage than anything actually enjoyable. The raids were largely simplistic.
Fuck I hate how just hearing people talk about this shit gives me chills lol. Such good memories in these raids. SoO was the best
My favourite Boss of all time will always be Mimiron HM 25 man. So much nostalgia of it... getting the realm first on it was just a blast. Phase 1 was kinda hard to manage to not spread the fires to far, going into phase 2 having boomkins offhealing to actually survive the nasty dot, phase 3 going back to managing the fires and somehow saving space for last phase ...
Just...
Nice
Now waiting for classic MoP....
i loved antorus and tomb
He said heroic Ragnaros changed raiding forever. Can anyone help me understand?
I believe that Heroic Ragnaros was regarded as being the hardest boss in WoW's history up until that point, and it kind of set the tone going forward. I could be wrong on that, though.
It was a massive step up in difficulty. If Ragnaros was an end boss in modern wow it would still be hard for most guilds. That’s not true of any boss before him
Before Ragnaros it was normal for all semi serious raiding guilds to clear everything on the hardest difficulty. Rag was the start of that just not being the case.
It wrath you could kill heroic LK with a good 10 bad players in your guild. By Rag you really couldn’t carry idiots anymore
@@bengreenbank Wonderful thank you!
@@Muspelful Awesome. Thank you
I was told to comment for the sick Alg
Someone else who recognizes MoP for the GOAT that it is
I loved Throne of Thunder
Yay the sounds fixed!