We are really going to miss this series. It’s been informative and entertaining. We have learned so much about GAs… some good. Some bad. Some sad. As we process all this information, it makes us pause and think… where were we at in the 60s and 70s. I remember when the ban was “stopped because of revelations “. I never believed that. My thought was, Finally! This series has certainly made us better. Thank you.
My sister and i had a falling out and I refused to interact with her unless she apologized, 8 years of estrangement later: she finally apologized and i let it go. The thing is, it's difficult to forgive and move past when the other party doesn't feel they did anything wrong... To me it was a clear indication that she fully intended to carry on as usual without changing that behavior which she owed the apology for. And i think that applies to the church too, it's a tacit signal that everything is fine and will continue on as was. Church should follow it's own repentance process
And the option of going along to get along without the apology occurred to me, and that was just as painful... Especially being surrounded by people who weren't sticking up for me and were accepting that treatment on my behalf. Hard not to draw a parallel to the way the members accept the non-apology apologetics
Some context on the apology hoax. It was originally supposed to be more obvious that it was fake. It was obviously written to sound like the church, but was only going to be presented as a "wouldn't it be great if the church said something like this?" Very late in the plan for its release, someone suggested that it would be trivial to make a website with an identical look and URL to the church PR website. There was excitement for how much this would stick it to the church by forcing them to denounce something that sounded so good and morally correct. Within hours, and without fully thinking through the possible ramifications and fallout, the hoax was online. The wording and presentation ended up being more convincing than intended, and instead of landing like scathing satire, it became an unintentionally cruel hoax. Nobody involved intended to fool or hurt the African American community. It has become a great lesson in how activism can harm if not centered on the feelings and needs of those it intends to help.
I watched the "apology " podcast it was as bad if not worse than the actual apology itself. He posted videos of black women who had agonized over the initial fake apology, without their knowledge or permission to absolve himself of the initial act. It was a continuation of not reading the situation why is it still ok to use black people as a way to get back at the church then use them again to try and excuse it? So obtuse. Not one black person was on the podcast. At they very least they could have invited the black ladies who's videos they found to talk about it in a balanced discussion. No it was just white men talking about them. This kind of stuff matters when you talk about race and this church.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Bravo Matt. I have donated, and I have watched every episode. This has been eye opening and informative and so refreshing to hear from a scholar that put so much time and energy into this work. I am sending everyone I know who is reading this book to watch this series because of all the additional content and stories you say had to be cut out. (Which is sad, because I’m sure a LOT of people would read it!) Keep doing the great work! ❤️❤️
Somehow, this final episode to the first iteration of the series was the best of them all. ~90% of my new deeper understanding of the Black ban has come from this series, and a surprising ~50% of my understanding of how the the General Authorities of the church operate today have come from Matt. Even if, for some reason, black history in the church isnt of interest as a topic to someone, this series would still blow church headquarters wide open to anyone who watches it. When are Matt & Nate starting their own Mormonism & Race podcast?
10 годин тому+1
One thing I can add re: Oaks and boundaries. When he was sent to the Philippines for multiple years to get things in order, one of the first things he did was discontinue “English speaking wards” and tell all the expats to go to their local wards. It stayed that way until about 12 years ago or so.
As long as they keep their racist scripture then they (LDS people) will always have some degree of racism. That’s the whole point of the Critical Race Theory - get to the root cause of racism. In the case of the LDS church the root of their racism is their scripture, it’s not just because Brother Jensen down the street is racist.
I was confused by the suggestion of Church units based on race when there is no language barrier. I thought there was a firm consensus that segregation and “separate but equal” are evil. Seems like a blatant contradiction to propose one and condemn the other. The specialized branches/wards and stakes are purely with regard to language in accord with D&C 90:11 (“that every man shall hear the fulness of the gospel in his own tongue, and in his own language”), not for the purpose of separation by race, ethnicity, culture, etc.
Ok lets play PHILOSOPHY to anyone who watched this clip. 1st off I do believe slavery is wrong especially when it comes to skin type. But lets pretend you are a rich white male Southerner who owns a huge farm of some sort during the time of slavery in AMerica when slavery was ok. You are against slavery but you realize that you have the opportunity to give some of these slaves a better future vs the other corrupt businessmen who will whip starve and abuse them. Is it ok to buy a slave to give them a better home? And did this happen? But in the future all we will know is that man owned slaves so he is Racist! Doing the right thing gets complicated!!
We are really going to miss this series. It’s been informative and entertaining. We have learned so much about GAs… some good. Some bad. Some sad. As we process all this information, it makes us pause and think… where were we at in the 60s and 70s. I remember when the ban was “stopped because of revelations “. I never believed that. My thought was, Finally! This series has certainly made us better. Thank you.
My sister and i had a falling out and I refused to interact with her unless she apologized, 8 years of estrangement later: she finally apologized and i let it go. The thing is, it's difficult to forgive and move past when the other party doesn't feel they did anything wrong... To me it was a clear indication that she fully intended to carry on as usual without changing that behavior which she owed the apology for. And i think that applies to the church too, it's a tacit signal that everything is fine and will continue on as was. Church should follow it's own repentance process
And the option of going along to get along without the apology occurred to me, and that was just as painful... Especially being surrounded by people who weren't sticking up for me and were accepting that treatment on my behalf. Hard not to draw a parallel to the way the members accept the non-apology apologetics
Some context on the apology hoax. It was originally supposed to be more obvious that it was fake. It was obviously written to sound like the church, but was only going to be presented as a "wouldn't it be great if the church said something like this?" Very late in the plan for its release, someone suggested that it would be trivial to make a website with an identical look and URL to the church PR website. There was excitement for how much this would stick it to the church by forcing them to denounce something that sounded so good and morally correct. Within hours, and without fully thinking through the possible ramifications and fallout, the hoax was online. The wording and presentation ended up being more convincing than intended, and instead of landing like scathing satire, it became an unintentionally cruel hoax. Nobody involved intended to fool or hurt the African American community. It has become a great lesson in how activism can harm if not centered on the feelings and needs of those it intends to help.
I watched the "apology " podcast it was as bad if not worse than the actual apology itself. He posted videos of black women who had agonized over the initial fake apology, without their knowledge or permission to absolve himself of the initial act. It was a continuation of not reading the situation why is it still ok to use black people as a way to get back at the church then use them again to try and excuse it? So obtuse. Not one black person was on the podcast. At they very least they could have invited the black ladies who's videos they found to talk about it in a balanced discussion. No it was just white men talking about them. This kind of stuff matters when you talk about race and this church.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Bravo Matt. I have donated, and I have watched every episode. This has been eye opening and informative and so refreshing to hear from a scholar that put so much time and energy into this work. I am sending everyone I know who is reading this book to watch this series because of all the additional content and stories you say had to be cut out. (Which is sad, because I’m sure a LOT of people would read it!) Keep doing the great work! ❤️❤️
I wish someone had retorted to Oaks"What about the word repentance, does that appear at all in the scriptures?"
Thanks Matt! Learned so much. The subject matter was informative, but also the method of telling it was very engaging.
Thanks!
Wonderful series!
Most Americans could not pass the Citizenship exam.
I'm sad that this series is coming to an end.
Me too!
Somehow, this final episode to the first iteration of the series was the best of them all. ~90% of my new deeper understanding of the Black ban has come from this series, and a surprising ~50% of my understanding of how the the General Authorities of the church operate today have come from Matt. Even if, for some reason, black history in the church isnt of interest as a topic to someone, this series would still blow church headquarters wide open to anyone who watches it.
When are Matt & Nate starting their own Mormonism & Race podcast?
One thing I can add re: Oaks and boundaries. When he was sent to the Philippines for multiple years to get things in order, one of the first things he did was discontinue “English speaking wards” and tell all the expats to go to their local wards. It stayed that way until about 12 years ago or so.
EVEN if it was not fake, it's too late to be honest.
We are not people in sorrow🎉
As long as they keep their racist scripture then they (LDS people) will always have some degree of racism. That’s the whole point of the Critical Race Theory - get to the root cause of racism. In the case of the LDS church the root of their racism is their scripture, it’s not just because Brother Jensen down the street is racist.
Are the women’s leadership positions salaried?
Nope
I was confused by the suggestion of Church units based on race when there is no language barrier. I thought there was a firm consensus that segregation and “separate but equal” are evil. Seems like a blatant contradiction to propose one and condemn the other.
The specialized branches/wards and stakes are purely with regard to language in accord with D&C 90:11 (“that every man shall hear the fulness of the gospel in his own tongue, and in his own language”), not for the purpose of separation by race, ethnicity, culture, etc.
Ookdork isn’t being nice. He’s just better at talking. Look, you even believe him. That’s what he wants , not truth.
I see🎉
🙏🏼😮💨💪🏼
“Looking forward” sounds a lot like Kamala’s “turn the page”
Ok lets play PHILOSOPHY to anyone who watched this clip. 1st off I do believe slavery is wrong especially when it comes to skin type.
But lets pretend you are a rich white male Southerner who owns a huge farm of some sort during the time of slavery in AMerica when slavery was ok. You are against slavery but you realize that you have the opportunity to give some of these slaves a better future vs the other corrupt businessmen who will whip starve and abuse them. Is it ok to buy a slave to give them a better home? And did this happen? But in the future all we will know is that man owned slaves so he is Racist! Doing the right thing gets complicated!!