TL:DW - The potential effectiveness of doing a boycott has SKYROCKETED due to our improved bargaining position. We're no longer depriving Valve of revenue in the hopes they devote years of employee resources into creating a state of the art anti-cheat, now we're just asking for ONE iteration on an already-established system should the bot hosters ever find an exploitable weakness within it. IMO, this is an opportunity too strong to not at least not test the waters with, so I'll be joining in boycotting the Summer Update until some minimum threshold of competency has been reached. Things are looking up, but only time will tell!
I'm with you on this one as the sitution has changed but I'm pretty sad that the comments show a clear lack of people who actually watched the video to understand the nuance You very clearly make the argument for why a boycott isn't a magic panacea, and the comments went straight to saying that the boycott would be a magic panacea
Frankly Weezy, whatever your opinion is, it’s not your decision. The communtiy decides this, and you can dislike it all you want, but if the community wants to boycott its on you to support as it’s your protest.
What do we think should count as "sufficient evidence" that Valve will continue to manage the bots? More Steam posts? Several months of Bot Free TF2? I'm personally not sure.
I think the boycott should keep on going until valve updates VAC and bring back voice chat and chat to free to Players. #savetf2 #fixtf2 and #fixCS2 #saveCS2
while the bots are gone: no boycott while the bots are here: boycott i think it's a pretty easy way to handle things, as well as the fact that it encourages Valve to keep the game in a bot-free state so that their revenue stream from TF2 doesn't dry up
That's Redditors for you. They don't even play anymore but sit in r/TF2 and post like they're working the picket line outside their actual jobs, what few of them are employed anyway
I don't blame folks for being leery of both the bots and Valve. Valve's infamous for being silent, too much so for TF2, so I reckon the boycott is warranted until further proof that TF2 is in a good spot, or an official word from Valve themselves.
I do agree with that, Valve's still a company at the end of the day and if there's ANYTHING that "modern gaming" has taught people is that the suits higher up the hierarchy chain DO NOT CARE about the playerbase or the state of the game they're pushing out, they only care about the Benjamins and how quickly they can make the most of them with the least amount of effort possible, plus Valve's not exactly in a position where they CAN just shut the game down even if the boycott has an effect on their bottom line, they invested so much time and effort into the cosmetics not just for TF2 and shutting down ONE GAME with tons of them will cause the playerbases for the other games to react because the action will make them realize that their precious pixels can be made worthless with just a flick of a switch, which will likely just mean less money generated in the long run for Valve from those games as well.
@@cursedhawkins1305 Absolutely true. Just look at BattleState games with Tarkov and Blizzard with Overwatch 2; companies do not care about anything aside from compensation, the only true way to hurt them is with a massive boycott, see Escape from Tarkov's situation for example. I don't know the legality of it due to my ignorance on the subject, but still; i'm scared for people who have valuable assets on tf2, because valve could "compensate" you the money for the items you own based on it's steam marketplace price to then shut off the Tf2 servers for good, if they even bother to pay you back for the items you had. Tf2's whole ordeal is very delicate, but something needs to be done or we'll end up like last's time situation with evrything stagnating on itself, i hope we learned from our past mistakes as a community.
Personally i think valve being silent is good in this case since this way hosters and cheaters can't adapt as easily, like if valve had announced "hey we are gonna ban the people" or " we updated vac" then now cheaters get notice of a ban wave or they know that their software needs an update. Right now it is pure speculation whether or not VAC is updated but the thought that it could be means a lot of cheaters either reform or stop completely since they think oh well what's the point I'll just get caught by VAC and since valve hasn't explained what they are doing Hosters especially have decided that it's not worth trying until they stop but no one knows when this'll be and the largest hoster Rosne even quit because of this
@@grillo_419 There's nothing Valve would give people when it comes to the cosmetics, they're pixels so their real-world value would be a literal zero dollars, the only people that might get something are the people that had their cosmetics accepted and added into the game but how much money do you think that would mean for every single individual? I'd wager it would be a lot more than what Valve would want to ever give away so lightly.
@@Xeno911 they should allow voice commands, how would bot hosters harrass people with a voice command system that was intentionally made to be non spammable (you say a voiceline, there's a cooldown that gradually gets longer until you don't say anything for a long period of time, after 4-5 voicelines, it starts to take more than 3 seconds (after a voiceline is finished) to be able to say anything)
Im sure it was stated by one of weezys videos that bot hosters used the f2p chat to advertise tf2 without bots for a price, in a way to stop that i believe it was the 1st try to savetf2 which gave way to them changing it so you have to pay to use chat which bot hosters did which basically was back at square 1 but worse since f2p can no longer use voice commands @dr.infernous9342
Zesty has a very good point in that a low chance of success was never an argument for not doing a boycott. If you're already admitting that your major effort has a low chance of success, why say no to another papercut to Valve? I am boycotting TF2. I hope all of you want to see this game fixed as well, so do your part. A long-term boycott is not feasible, I agree, but we can at least try to cripple this update.
i feel like a lot of people here just instantly assume you went "no dont stop spending it doesnt matter i have a gambling addiction" without watching the video. i guess the video DID talk about people jumping to conclusions. I liked the point about thinking for yourself, i think a lot of people have just been siding with whatever group is the largest and most popular and not really thinking about it.
Boycott until F2Ps get their communication back. It'd hopefully mean that Valve is confident enough in keeping bots out of the game to allow the hopefully small risk of bots spamming hate speech. (Something that continued to happen anyway which is even more reason to give F2Ps communication.)
The amount of money that TF2 makes is irrelevant. It is the statement that is sent to Valve through it. They can block out guess arriving to their headquarters, twitter hashtags, UA-camr videos, and any other social media conflicts that spring up. What they can't just ignore is their streams of income. Even if a smaller one faulters, that's a huge deal to them. Any amount of loss revenue is harmful towards a company. Not only that, but TF2 is a corner stone to their other games being financial juggernauts. TF2 is not the only micro economy game with disaillusioned player base. A financial boycott would be a massive rally cry for CS2 and it's own lack luster care. You need to remember, that for a company, that they plan everything around budgets and current future predictions. If they're expecting *X* amount on *Y* day, but that amount isn't there. They panic. Its what forces them to action above all else. Yes there's a lot of "what about isums" you can thrown. Yes, you probably wouldn't get whales to stop, or other players in other regions, or asking work shoppers to take a risk of a lower payback. But at the end of the day, we all rise up if Valve steps up. A more playable game means more players, more players means more money for valve, the work shoppers, and better items for us the player. I hope this is making sence, I'm coming off of 3 hours of sleep. Tl:DR, yes finical boycott is good. Should have been done sooner.
Did you actually watch the video? No, the amount of money TF2 makes is relevant, in that a financial boycott can only reduce that amount by however much money it was already making, which is barely anything to begin with. The amount of money TF2 makes in a year can be made by Gaben in the same time it takes for him to drive to work.
@@BrancliffThen why make an anti-cheat? Why issue game bans? Why drop updates? If TF2 is that insignificant and resources at Valve are THAT (artificially) strained, why even bother? Clearly, TF2 is NOT that insignificant, and a boycott WOULD help.
@@Brancliffif the money that TF2 makes is so insignificant then why do they bother to make updates for more micro transactions, then? The Boycott is not about actually making Valve struggle with less money. Its about sending a message.
Because Valve barely has to do anything. Send out a few emails to creators who already did the hard work of actually making something, then they say "yes", then you sell their stuff. Still won't make tons of money but it'll sure make good money relative to how little effort it is. The intern can write a few emails in an hour.
The closing statement of this video is some of the realest shit you've said on this channel ngl. No one is sacred or should pretend to be so, fact is that companies rule this world and we just have to work around it and try to support the absolute worst ones as little as possible and in terms of multi-billion dollar companies we can do a lot worse than valve *glances at actiblizz*
@@grillo_419 That's also a pretty good point! To me it's the opposite, I'm happy that I can finally play casual and I've been doing it daily since the ban waves started, but thankfully I never spent money on the game regardless of new items or not so I'm already doing my part by not supporting them financly hahah (except when I bought a sticky jumper back in 2012 to upgrade my account)
zesty had a decent take on the boycott, because it doesnt make much sense to punish them for actually doing it, but i do get the worry about them just waiting for the summer check and then diping to other things, but i think that we can talk circles around what ifs and what could happen for ages, whats important currently is that stuffs being done, and things are good, if/when that changes then go back in imeditate hard ball, not just tf2 but valve in general, let them know right when they mess up that they did but just right now it feels like it could send the wrong message, like we wont be happy no matter what
This is the answer. If we boycott starting now, that's just making them less incentivized to do anything for TF2. If we wait until the bots come back, then that incentivizes them to get rid of the bots again. Simple as.
I'm going to double this one. Boy cutting now would be punishing valve for doing something about the bots, because we're worried about The possibility that they might not keep doing it.
@@ChargedBonsai98would be a huge loss. The main reason it needs to happen now is cause the summer update is coming, that one snd the smissmass update are the highest profitable updates. Doing a boycott at any other point other than summer or christmas is meaningless since valve would already have the money
@@nardgamesso if no boycot then valve simply realized they can do it once and take the buck to dissapear once more. If someone abandons u for a while u dont trust them or reward them right away for coming back, u keep pushing them to prove they changed and are worthy of your trust once more.
@@mr.shadow8812 A boycott should be saved for if and only if valve neglects TF2 again, not on the chance that they might. To do anything else will make the TF2 community look like ungrateful children, Yes they need to continue to support VAC or replace it with a newer auntie cheating solution; a boycott is not an effective way to motivate them to do that.
14:11 Just because a person acts hypocritically doesn’t mean their moral claims should be discarded. People tend to act in accordance to their own self-interest yes, but why do you believe that’s morally permissible? A person who understands the cruelty of factory farms for instance and talks about the immorality of it is still correct about it even if he still eats meat on a regular basis, and his message should still be considered. No one can be perfect, but there’s no reason we can't be better. Frankly I'm a little surprised you'd take such a position Weezy. Doing unethical things for the sake of personal enjoyment is basically the definition of selfish behavior, and I don’t understand why it should be viewed as "OK" just because everyone else does it and because almost no one acts perfectly moral all the time. For the record, there are plenty of people who try to reduce their harm through their consumer choices and actually attempt to be consistent with their values. You can't force everyone to care, but the people who want to see the game improve will listen and likely apply it (especially since a TF2 boycott is ridiculously easy as it requires literally zero action). I'm not trying to smartass you, I love your content and you're a very well spoken and intelligent guy (and please correct me if I misunderstood what you said), I just really don't like attempts to justify moral apathy.
I understand your perspective, but I don’t think he’s advocating for moral apathy he’s simply telling people this doesn’t make them the second coming of Christ. He’s simply trying to prevent some Reddit moral grand standing by saying that not participating in the boycott doesn’t make you immoral just as participation doesn’t mean you’re a good person. I hope that clears it up.
@@blakeoarmboy I don't think he's necessarily advocating for apathy either, but the message I gleaned from his statement strongly implicates that it's permissible to not be participating in the boycott even if you agree with it's message. I 100% agree that a person who gives other people shit for not participating in the boycott is being a Reddit-esque grandstander since it's not like it's something that requires effort: But that's exactly the point. I can totally understand why, for example, the average person would have a hard time reducing their consumption of animal products, even if they agree with the moral and environmental arguments for doing so. It's a pretty significant lifestyle change, and it would undo deeply ingrained habits we were raised on. But not having enough willpower to not waste money on a fucking hat game? I'm sorry, but that's sort of pathetic. Of course, the issue of the future of TF2 is one of little moral importance, but if a person claims to care about such a matter, they oughta put their money where their mouth is. If someone proclaims they don't care about the future of the game (which won't necessarily make them a bad person since again it's a trivial matter), that person can spend all the money they desire and shouldn't be criticized for it. There's a big difference between the moral dilemmas Weezy mentioned in the video, and boycotting TF2. The latter takes significantly less effort than the former. I'm sorry if I went all Reddit-atheist on you there, it's just this sort of thing is really frustrating to me. 😅
@@TheTrveRed such behavior surely is pathetic and selfish but I guess that’s just what people are (or a part tf2 community in particular. They might not be the majority but they’re surely the loudest ones). What I think he says, and what I agree with, is that we gotta do what’s right, we gotta try to get people to do what’s right, but arguing with braindead addicts is not worth it. Or if your friend doesn’t have as much commitment as you and wants to buy funni hats, that’s not a reason to shit on them. I’m convinced that these are mostly the same people that were against fixtf2 movement for absolutely no reason, called everything a treadmill work, etc. Society moment :( And that’s sort of what Zesty Jesus was talking about in his recent video “Nobody’s home”, even tho he doesn’t seem to support the movement very much. A few days ago I asked in a match chat if we’re still boycotting valve because I don’t really follow the events, and the two people that responded were quite aggressive in their responses, literally saying that they sink all their money in Valve and hate the boycott because yes 🗿 So yeah people with such mindset do exist and we practically can’t do anything about them, only do our part P.S. blakeoarmboy explained things very well, idk why I wrote this long ahh reply haha
Boycott it Valve has no shareholders so no quarterly profit deadlines Casual needs fixing, spectator mode needs to be brought back, dead weapons need buffing, MvM needs reviving Years of neglect carry inertia
@@tntrose7285 We as gamers, as consumers, need to stop settling for slop If it gets shut down that's fine The game will be rebuilt from the leaked source code And Valve will lose their CS:GO players because they'll realise Valve can do much worse than forcing them into CS:2
@@MoleRat-ts5xb (in this context, boycotting TF2 means spending no money on cosmetics, weapons, or any other optional purchases, which I am amazing at)
They literally cannot. Even if they do thousands come back. If they can't even do it to their own games or other games than it's really impossible. Unless they can start developing a system where afk bots get banned instantly.
@@qua_xor3348 Yeah. Even if we boycott to ban these bots, as said in the video, the demand is too high for Valve to care, especially when they can invest in other methods. We can only dream about it...
You don't need a 16 minute video to know a boycott will work. Just because valve decided to actually wake up and do something with tf2 now doesn't mean the protest should stop. Within a few months once this eventually blows over it will be business as usual and the status quo will be unchanged. Also I'm not watching the whole video. I'm just posting this and leaving. FixTF2 should have been a boycott since day one, and all this amounted to was a whole lot of noise.
Update: The report tool is actually doing something again. Multiple players have had their reports of bots and cheaters answered. This has gotten me thinking: if the report tool actually works again, does this mean we can potentially get all of the worst offenders of MvM toxicity banned too? Could we get Tacobot, Maribot, and all the other high-tour clowns exiled for good? I say we should give it a shot. If it works, that's great! And if it doesn't, then you can't say we didn't try.
I personally expect the bot fix to last until a month or two after Valve releases Deadlock, i think they're only fixing the bot and cheater issue so potential players of their shiny new fps won't look at their other multiplayer games and refuse to give the time of day to another game that'll likely be left to rot in a year or two.
You keep harping on and on about how TF2's revenue is nothing in the face of Valve's earnings, yet you forget that TF2 is *_the literal forefather of microtransactions the bigger Valve games still use to this day,_* and any big hit to the TF2 market could send shockwaves across the entire Valve playerbase -- especially as the Counter-Strike community is already starting to feel the very same pains we had after Jungle Inferno. Simply put, Valve is *_absolutely forced to maintain TF2 and its economy_* even if it doesn't earn them much, as otherwise it'd bring their whole house of cards down with them (there's a very similar occurrence to this IRL, it's called a "bank run", look it up); the problem is, we've been letting Valve get away with literal bonedust levels of maintenance for almost 8 years now just to keep the game economy going, and unless we do something to grind the game's economy down to a crawl, they'll never feel compelled to do anymore than that. *_This is why a collective boycott effort would do way more damage to Valve than your game revenue numbers would indicate:_* you put the game's economy on full stop, and Valve becomes at risk of its very own bank run across all of its microtransactioned games, and that in turn would give us leverage -- leverage to demand for bigger and better maintenance on the game, bigger and better quality control, bigger and better content, and so on. Fact of the matter is, Valve simply cannot afford to make all of its lavish pet projects with just Steam's revenue share alone, they absolutely need the money from their bigger games, *_and we are in a prime position_* to make that side of Valve's earnings come crashing down if we chose to. So let's choose to.
This video did made me reconsider my plans. I was going to not spend any money cuz I am broke, but now I will not spend any money cuz I'm broke and boycotting my wallet. Also, didn't saw that meme, and, well... We got tf2 fixed before gta 6
I am so sick of hearing about how "TF2 is only 0.0001% of Valve's revenue, so a boycott is useless!" That argument goes both ways. If Valve doesn't care about TF2's revenue, how come they continue to monetize the game after all these years? Why haven't they fully abandoned it yet if the revenue matters so little? It's because they do care about TF2's revenue, and a boycott will work better than anything else. The only thing Valce cares about is the game's revenue. If we want to negotiate, we need to use what they care about as leverage. They don't care about a soy campaign on Twitter. They care about a loss of revenue. Also, stop saying TF2 is fixed. It is not fixed. This is the same trap the community falls into after every movement. This is why nothing ever changes with this game. People are willing to do anything as long as it doesn't require sacrifces and will INSTANTLY forgive Valve for the smallest of fixes. People should be offended that all they are willing to do is manually ban bot and cheater accounts after everything the game has been through. All of this is why I have been saying FixTF2 won't work and now say it hasn't worked.
ppl saynig that seem ot forget Tf2 was one of the 1st games that implemented an actual internal economy successfully and its continued health and existence is what enables other Valve Ips to dare ot try the same. TF2 failing for good would be the beginning of the end for other, bigger valve IPS that are based on the same principles.
After not watching the video and choosing to look at the comments first, i can say with confidence that weezy's stance at the start of the #FixTF2 movement was that a boycott wasnt needed (weezy stated in a discord call with other TF2ubers that we shouldnt boycott tf2) (it is unlikely but plausable that weezy was buying mvm tickets at this time so he could say "i wont buy anything on steam ever again") Weezy was questioned by others in the discord call about why we shouldnt boycott tf2 and he brushed the question off, there is a video by a smaller creator about it but im too lazy to look for it Edit: After watching this video i think my comment is a schitzofrenic rambling and if i was a bitch i should delete it🥵 TLDR: funny banana man no do boycott at first because GAMBLING WOO!!!
Because they need to make sure their cash cows don't stop making money. If TF2 servers went completely offline, that would show Counter Strike, a game that makes billions for valve, that all the things they've spent money on could be taken at any time.
Overstating the boycott as if it's a silver bullet is just too naive. And, in fact, it may profit the company instead. Many other boycott attempts I've seen on other games quickly degenerated into 'pointing guns at people still spending' fest, from protesting against the company. Which brought up massive dramas within the game's community, eventually blurring up the focal point until it's no longer recognizable. What happened after? People caught in the crossfire of drama got fed up, left the game, and public outcry against the company died down. And... The company won, since those whiny customers are gone. To make a movement big enough, you should keep it tolerant. Therefore I think boycott should never be forced. Do it if you want, as much as you like- that's my stance against the boycott.
Honestly i am glad a boycott wasnt the main goal of the movement, the people who would agree on not spending money on tf2 would have been likely not doing so already
Oh yeah, if boycott will never work, then why Valve fixed the unusual drop rate bug within the same day or two days. surely tf2 don't make ton of money but it seem they care enough to fix that somehow. Also the boycott is about that Valve doesn't deserve your money, they done nothing. the bot is one issues of many tf2 suffer from. we need quickplay we need to undo the bad nerfs of MYM etc.... #BringBackQuickplay
Honestly, this video just kind of struck me as a "Shift blame away from me video." Weezy has been questioned about why fix tf2 didn't include a boycott several times, and there was even a podcast where it was argued with other tf2 tubers. And Weezy says that a boycott won't do anything because of how much money Valve already makes. And then now he promotes a boycott after mentioning that Valve won't care due to the money that Valve already makes. It just seems a little bit confusing to mention why a boycott won't work, and they immediately go to support it. It just seems like Weezy is shifting his opinion while keeping any blame away from him for making the #fixtf2 movement not include a boycott so he can just look better. If I'm not understanding this properly, please make me understand, because I'm confused right now. Though a boycott would most likely work, it's still money that Valve makes, and a corporation like Valve does things with this money. If they lose that money, they will do something to make up for it. Valve, as a company, needs money to function, and if they lose a random few million dollars off tf2, Valve is expected to do something to make up for the money they lost.
This video is basically what I've been saying in the comments. Like yeah, don't give your money to anyone you don't trust or don't wish to support, but there wasn't really a need to make it a main focus. Just make people more aware where they're spending their cash. An example I use, I came from the Cod community, we had a small boycott there due to a content creator advocating for it. What happened afterwards was that the publishers cranked that microtransaction bs way, way, way up. It's only gotten worse and the gameplay went way downhill for it. Was it because of the boycott? Probably not, it barely hurt their bottom line, but the fact the games got so bad most of the veterans have legit quit, assuming it wasn't their job, afterwards, yeah.
Weezy you seem to have very little understanding of how companies work on the inside. Whatever happens in tf2 won't have an effect on the steam deck or something. Tf2 really is a tiny portion of revenue for valve, so cutting it won't do anything to valve at large. But, when the accountants analyze each game, charts will show a giant sudden dip in revenue for tf2 specifically. Companies don't do damage control for a slowly declining game, because that's normal. What's not normal is a gigantic spike downwards in a short amount of time. A boycot doesn't have to hurt valve or deprive them of their valuation. It has to send a message to valve in the language a company understands best: fiscal performance. When you see a giant sudden shitting-itself of a source of revenue you will suspect something is wrong and report it to your boss, and that's what a boycott is supposed to mean. Boycotts that are meant to deprive companies of revenue are a long gone thing of the past. In the modern age those are basically impossible. Remember, a boycott is a message in the language of a company.
People when the #saveTF2 they design to get rid of the bots actually get rid of the bots: Edit: Just to make things clear, I started playing TF2 10 months ago
There's a cycle with tf2 Bots work around VAC and populate servers -> valve ignores it -> community uproar -> valve bans bots and maybe makes negligible update to vac -> bots work around VAC and populate servers again -> etc etc. We need to get valve to make some permanent solutions to the problem, whether that being getting someone on the treadmill and manually banning bots forever or getting an actually functioning anti-cheat.
There was a comment earlier today, where someone said that the decision whether we should boycott didn't require a 16 minute video, but it's surprisingly missing now... hmmm...
The video started good but then ya threw a "we all do this", no we don't. I got most of my items through trading, achievements and random drops and I don't really care about expensive stuff that makes the characters an eyesore to look at. The point is I only spend 5€ in TF2 and I've been playing it for 12 years because at the end of the day all I care about is playing the goddamn game, like just because I can spend money on it doesn't invalidate the fact that there's problems that need to be fixed, it's a "Oh you own a phone? That's produced using third world labour, opinion discarded" kind of mentality, it's something that needs to be changed because that kind of attitude doesn't go anywhere and just reinforces the mindset that things are bad and there's nothing we can do about them. So yeah TLDR Yes! A Boycott is good!! Don't settle for mediocrity, always strive for better things to create a better future.
If we boycott now, that doesn't really give valve any incentive to keep tf2 alive. If we wait until the bots come back, then that rewards them for doing good and punishes them for doing bad.
its refreshing to see how much weezy have grown since his first video about fixtf2. thats some insane development in a short amount of time, my big respects to you
We should keep in mind, and I like Weezy I mean no disrespect, he doesn’t reeeaaallly know what he’s talking about. Like he can give his opinion but by no means is he qualified to say if a boycott would work or not. He wouldn’t even entertain the idea when him and his two dweebs put this “movement” together. There’s absolutely no reason why he couldn’t insist on people not spending money on the game, even if he doesnt think it would work. Seriously, NO reason why he was so reluctant to say “don’t spend money on this game we’re trying to get fixed”. He could have said that but he refused to.
@@xvxjon6626 you referring to the segment at the end where he compares boycotting tf2 to saying you’re against sweatshop laboring until it means losing your favorite blanket? You mean when he said your personal enjoyment of tf2 shouldn’t come after trying to protest for improvements? Or maybe you’re yapping about something ELSE. Because what he said at the end just made his stance even more ridiculous and unbecoming of some sort of leader. I’m interested for your elaboration on this cryptic, nonsense question.
I do think it’s more important to demonstrate that “TF2 is CS2’s future”. Like, ignoring PR, even if TF2 just gets nuked out of existence, I don’t think Valve would care that much about the monetary loss. However, shutting down TF2 will demonstrate that the items in TF2 are inherently “valueless”, which will cause a serious dent in the total value of CS2 items. And I do believe this is the part that Valve seriously does care. So yeah, I do think the currently progress in TF2 is also thanks to the problematic release of CS2. Valve needs to demonstrate that they won’t give up on CS2 by working on TF2 some more. So I do think our narrative should be more focused on the “TF2 is CS2’s future” aspect.
You've agreed already that all of the itens in your account are valueless when you've accepted the steam user terms. Valve can legally delete any marketplace and they cannot be forced to pay you back. Also, tf2 is viewed as "that old game from Valve" that people remember playing on their childhood, not a potential money making market. Cs2 has an active competitive scene that people care very much about it, but TF2 doesn't. Most people outside of this community won't really care.
It doesn't matter how much money TF2 earns. If the boycott is meaningful enough, Valve will notice how there is a dent in their profits from a typically stable source of revenue. The larger the dent, the more alarming it becomes since revenue is the #1 priority for every company. Furthermore, if all Valve needs to do is pick some stuff from the workshop every now and then to earn millions from TF2, that should be an indispensable reason to do something. That's basically a money printer working 24/7, even if it generates less money compared to Steam, CS2, Dota and other stuff. Furthermore, the boycott shouldn't just be about seasonal keys. People should stop buying standard mann co. keys, paints and other stuff from the mann co store. That includes tour of duty tickets, Weezy. I love me some gambling here and there, but we should NOT give them more than they deserve when they can't even be bothered to invest that money back into the game.
@@awestie That's more of a half assed solution because you're still maintaining a market for the economy. If people keep buying stuff on the steam community market or 3rd party websites, traders and gamblers will have an incentive to continue buying from the mann co store. That's why I personally decided to stop buying anything and everything tf2 related until further changes, but I understand if not everyone wants to participate that way.
I'm still wondering why bot hosters do it? I understand the idle bots for drops, but why do aimbot hosters spend their money on something with no clear benefit? Do they really just hate a 17 year old game that much as to waste thousands of dollars on setups to run bots? How do these people organize? How many are there?
My favorite part was when Weezy admitted to abusing adderall and proceeded to buy MVM tickets to fuel his gambling addiction. Truly the TF2 youtuber of all time.
lol I swear I can mentally see Zesty's thumbnail on his Boycott video fading in slowly as you ranted about why Boycotting wasn't the 1st option. Missed opportunity tbh XD
Aside from all this financial boycotting... As a former f2p I felt horrible not being able to use the most basic communication in game because of a bunch of low life losers that hosted bots. Valve has to bring back communication to free accounts so that less f2ps have to use moon runes to call for medic or help. #savetf2 #fixtf2
I still stand by the idea that a boycott should have been the top priority of the community moving forward, whether or not there was a social movement being planned or in-progress. Of course Valve wouldn't tremble at the loss of pennies generated by TF2 (compared to the normal amount of income they acquire regularly by Steam, CS:GO etc.). BUT, I believe that as customers we have the right to demand a working product, and if Valve is not willing to provide something serviceable, then they don't deserve any monetary compensation. Is not simply "I want the videogame to work", it's a matter of principle, to not let us be taken advantage of by a multibillion company who is not intersted in it's consumer base. If you like to spend money in this videogame (or any videogame as a matter of fact) it's your decision and that's fine, but at least we shall be conscious of the things we are offered against what we received. And don't spend money on shitty cosmetics.
a note i wish was made in this video about valve's silence; bringing attention to bots and cheaters is good morale for the innocent playerbase, but it also gives info to the cheaters. if they know if/when valve is working against them, they might change their usual behavior (stop cheating, stop playing, change method, etc.) which could make things a bit harder to deal with. having periods of silence is a bit disheartening, but it also leaves cheaters in the dark. once a ban wave or update or something happens, they'll hafta figure out how they're going to respond once it happens and they hafta recover. if they know a bit more beforehand (even just that valve is doing something) they'll have a bit more prep time and might be more wary. they can start thinking and working on countermeasures earlier than if they just got struck with no warning. keep cheaters in the dark.
I'm not sure a boycott immediately after Valve took the action we demanded is the right idea. That's like a union going on strike after getting the concessions they demanded at the bargaining table. If the playerbase boycotts this summer update, what's to stop Valve from saying "welp, that was a lot of money wasted, nothing will make these players happy," and packing it in completely?
If you aren’t enjoying the party, you leave. If you are enjoying the party, you stay. Do what you want. But don’t hold out hope that massive change will take place depending on what you do. It is obvious that valve doesn’t care.
I've pulled out years ago by selling my aussies. If I want a gambling addiction I found it in gacha games. I find my time spent there far more enjoyable and I don't even have to spend any money to try my luck. This community has an evergreen content sludge that constantly recycles the same topics, at some point you can just tell people make essays just to practice for school. If I don't play the game, I might as well stop watching... but where's the fun in that? There's really nothing holding me attached to this game as it is currently but hell if I'm not willing to see where this story eventually goes.
What are they gonna do, stop paying the server costs and check for the one guy working on it, which will both be more than covered by the games profits anyway?
thats the problem, they see the entirety of team fortress as one of their cash registers, there is no reason for valve to just not care about whats happening in tf2 and only keep the servers alive to not get bad press. They already tried to take responsibilty for their neglect and i'd rather have them continue trying than trying once and thought its not worth it to try again.
number 4 is just a tu quoque fallacy. the utility clothes bring you, despite being made in bad conditions is necessary. on top of that, it doesn't really matter which clothes you buy since they're in general made in bad conditions. So you NEED it. that's not something that can be easily abstained from. acting like that is similar to a digital game where cosmetics are entirely optional? come on now
It cost money for valve to do the bot removal, they justified that expense of money under the expectation that they would make that money back on a player wave. If that player wave does not materialize or does not result in revenue for valve, there is a very real chance that they will write off any future maintenance of TF2 as a loss and we will never get any bot fix again. If Valve believes that TF2 is a bigger problem than it is worth they could just shut down the servers that they have to run to keep the game going; and you might say that community servers will provide games for people to play on, but they can't substitute for the item servers.
U do know the shutting servers now is not feasable at all. Valve and everyone knows why. If it happens the whole market crashes, then other games by valve like csgo would see “oh shit if that happened to them then it can to us too!” And they start panic selling and their market crashes too and so on into other games. Shutting down the game like that would make huge revenue losses beyond tf2 itself
@@durkaman most probably, the chaos it would cause is insane. If a game like tf2 is to be shutdown it has to be done meticulously and carefully and while the game is in a fine state so that it doesnt trigger a chain reaction If it were to be shut down while is bad like today then people would think that valve just gave up and panic big time
I can almost guarantee the fact he's so hardline against "moral grandstanding" is because his like, entire channel's predicated on handing Papa Gaben money for MVM tickets.
I have a lot to say in regards to this; For starters, I'm happy to hear that the petition has geared now into the boycott. That said though, it may be a paper cut to valve for TF2's revenue, but you're not looking at what's happened as a whole. The petition, for all intents and purposes, worked. It sent a message that hundreds of thousands of people took the time to sign that they're mad about what valve's doing. That said, what was the website's traffic as a whole? How many people stopped to read about the problem but just didn't sign? How many people didn't go to the website at all, but heard about Valve neglecting it's players and shoveling microtransactions instead of fixing the game? I'd reckon to say multimillions of people who may not have directly interacted at least know what's happened. When Deadshot or the next big Valve IP releases, there will be people who say, "Hey, aren't they the people that screw over their live-service players?". It matters that one of the random people who saw that article may rethink spending money with a company that mistreats it's customers. Saying that people need to lessen their morals and not spend money on a broken product is completely stupid. Valve's not forcing child labor in Africa to make keys for crates and they don't have Chinese sweatshops making the new cosmetics. After what's happened and what's been reported, players in CS will rethink purchases, TF2 players will rethink their purchases, Steam players may rethink their purchases. It impacts every single thing Valve releases and creates in the future. I'm going to admit that for over a decade, since I was 17 and started working, I burned money in TF2 like a furnace. I had, and have been recovering from in general, from being a gambling addict. I have spent nearly 45 thousand dollars on Steam (not solely on TF2, mind you) over the last 14 years of playing TF2. I have credit card debt from it still. I had a severe problem. I'm much better now, and the protest still even helped me in general realize that I need to take stronger care of my finances period because I have a wife and son now. That debt I gave myself for my addiction still chases and haunts me. Until roughly day 30 of the update when we saw real fixes happening, I made the decision to not spend a cent on Steam period. I missed the Summer sale. I didn't buy Shadow of the Erdtree when it released, and I didn't spend microtransactions on anything even outside of Steam. It's self control. It's discipline. I refuse to be led to the trough like a pig for Valve to dump a bucket of slop just so I get a dopamine fix anymore. When I see improvement, I'll return as a responsible customer. If we're going to continue to only get slop (No disrespect to our community) in the form of community map updates and cosmetics, the least they can do is add some fucking spices to it in the form of management of their game to make it all palatable. You should have been encouraging players to have some fucking self respect and self control like Zesty has. It was wrong of you guys not to make this a focal point of the petition from the beginning and hearing excuses how it only affects TF2 is extremely frustrating. We needed cold water splashed the way Zesty did it. I don't agree with the dude on every take he has, most of them honestly, but just like how SaveTF2 failed because we all played nice, this time needed the anger and frustrations. Doing everything in our power to wake people up and to snap people out of it was what we needed. You guys were willing to send a message to Valve, but not to the people who mindlessly spend money just because you thought they were a lost cause. Even if you convinced a single whale or addict to stop gorging on slop, that's a giant deal. From here on, it's moot like you said. Bans are rolling in and the repercussions are real. That said, we now have a ton of new and old faces returning to a game that they can play. Those players need to be encouraged to not get comfortable though. I can say with 100% truth that I haven't really laughed at, smiled at, or frankly enjoyed TF2 for nearly 6 years now because of the problems we faced. But as of late, I'm not just enjoying TF2 but I'm having fun in TF2. If things continue to just be the bare minimum playable, that's all I can ask for. But I'll be damned if I ever spend any large amount on TF2 or Steam after the slop we were drip fed. Even if I had hundreds of thousands at my disposal, it will never happen again. But, that said, I don't mind throwing 20 dollars at an update if it continues to be playable. We all need to be better. As human beings we need to be better about spending money on bad products. Thanks for reading my TED talk, I'll be in Dustbowl.
I'm so cynical against Valve that not even the "comic leak" happened recently gave me a bit of hype. I know Valve too well to trust them so early. I won't stop supporting the boycott until something actually big is being made.
I honestly wish that TF2 would be available for consoles, it would not only force the devs to actually care about game because if they do implement a cross play/ cross save they would need to care for TF2 im just saying asking it to be ported to current consoles would be cool and probably draws more attention to the bot problem or not i could be stupid for just suggesting
I feel like just to be safe we should still boycott during the summer update. If no bots come around during it, at least not to the point where the update's unplayable, then we can say that maybe we can go back to giving valve money. But knowing this could be a measure being taken just for now until the update drops, I think it's best to be cautious and remember to vote with the method that speaks the loudest: Our wallets.
You're basically competing with CS2, Dota2, deadlock, the steam platform and other projects like steam deck to get a bigger piece of the 400 employee pie. Good luck
A thing I have seen one time: 2 "Anti-bot bot (killing only bots" bots joined the game. One left instantly, the other ran around the map like, well, a bot. Not doing anything to players. It would be cool to see it in work, but I prefer just not having bots.
Saying Valve wouldn't care if they lost a few million dollars is a braindead take. Just because they make billions doesn't mean they don't care about a few millions. If they were like and just went "baah it's only a few million" over and over they'd quickly face financial problems.
![[TF2] INSANE MvM Player Responds...](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JenuHzGPsjc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] INSANE MvM Player Responds...](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Gas Passer in MvM - A Fake Problem](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KnO9b8Ez-gk/mqdefault.jpg)
TL:DW - The potential effectiveness of doing a boycott has SKYROCKETED due to our improved bargaining position. We're no longer depriving Valve of revenue in the hopes they devote years of employee resources into creating a state of the art anti-cheat, now we're just asking for ONE iteration on an already-established system should the bot hosters ever find an exploitable weakness within it.
IMO, this is an opportunity too strong to not at least not test the waters with, so I'll be joining in boycotting the Summer Update until some minimum threshold of competency has been reached.
Things are looking up, but only time will tell!
One thing Weezy, how do we boycott in favour of newcomers? GIVEAWAYS BABYY
I'm with you on this one as the sitution has changed but I'm pretty sad that the comments show a clear lack of people who actually watched the video to understand the nuance
You very clearly make the argument for why a boycott isn't a magic panacea, and the comments went straight to saying that the boycott would be a magic panacea
Frankly Weezy, whatever your opinion is, it’s not your decision. The communtiy decides this, and you can dislike it all you want, but if the community wants to boycott its on you to support as it’s your protest.
should also mention why you didn't boycott at first in this comment, since that's what a lot of the comments are centering around
i genuinely have an idea.
hear me out,
we boycott counter strike. many people probably wont stick with it, but if we do, valve are just 🤯
What do we think should count as "sufficient evidence" that Valve will continue to manage the bots? More Steam posts? Several months of Bot Free TF2? I'm personally not sure.
I think the boycott should keep on going until valve updates VAC and bring back voice chat and chat to free to Players. #savetf2 #fixtf2 and #fixCS2 #saveCS2
If it’s one year bot free or even more then it should be enough
while the bots are gone: no boycott
while the bots are here: boycott
i think it's a pretty easy way to handle things, as well as the fact that it encourages Valve to keep the game in a bot-free state so that their revenue stream from TF2 doesn't dry up
@@freedompodcast4518Forget about a free voice chat. There isn't a way that these capitalistic motherfuckers will ever do that.
An update from Valve I guess? Hell, even just word from them at this point that they're doing or planning something.
Be Me
Doesn't spend a dime on TF2 anyway
Start calling it boycott
Pad myself on the shoulder on social media
That's Redditors for you. They don't even play anymore but sit in r/TF2 and post like they're working the picket line outside their actual jobs, what few of them are employed anyway
Do not buy in TF2, but still buying in steam: yeah I am a big boycotter
@@captainforrix956 "We did it, Reddit! Thanks to US the game is bot free now! (Wholesome moment!!)"
fix tf2 petition had more signatures than active players so yeah, non players ARE aiding the boycott, but only via bloated numbers
@@Harsh-tf9he I feel like that petition is like 70% botted
I don't blame folks for being leery of both the bots and Valve.
Valve's infamous for being silent, too much so for TF2, so I reckon the boycott is warranted until further proof that TF2 is in a good spot, or an official word from Valve themselves.
I do agree with that, Valve's still a company at the end of the day and if there's ANYTHING that "modern gaming" has taught people is that the suits higher up the hierarchy chain DO NOT CARE about the playerbase or the state of the game they're pushing out, they only care about the Benjamins and how quickly they can make the most of them with the least amount of effort possible, plus Valve's not exactly in a position where they CAN just shut the game down even if the boycott has an effect on their bottom line, they invested so much time and effort into the cosmetics not just for TF2 and shutting down ONE GAME with tons of them will cause the playerbases for the other games to react because the action will make them realize that their precious pixels can be made worthless with just a flick of a switch, which will likely just mean less money generated in the long run for Valve from those games as well.
Anyone excited for Deadlocked? 😎
@@cursedhawkins1305 Absolutely true.
Just look at BattleState games with Tarkov and Blizzard with Overwatch 2; companies do not care about anything aside from compensation, the only true way to hurt them is with a massive boycott, see Escape from Tarkov's situation for example.
I don't know the legality of it due to my ignorance on the subject, but still; i'm scared for people who have valuable assets on tf2, because valve could "compensate" you the money for the items you own based on it's steam marketplace price to then shut off the Tf2 servers for good, if they even bother to pay you back for the items you had.
Tf2's whole ordeal is very delicate, but something needs to be done or we'll end up like last's time situation with evrything stagnating on itself, i hope we learned from our past mistakes as a community.
Personally i think valve being silent is good in this case since this way hosters and cheaters can't adapt as easily, like if valve had announced "hey we are gonna ban the people" or " we updated vac" then now cheaters get notice of a ban wave or they know that their software needs an update. Right now it is pure speculation whether or not VAC is updated but the thought that it could be means a lot of cheaters either reform or stop completely since they think oh well what's the point I'll just get caught by VAC and since valve hasn't explained what they are doing Hosters especially have decided that it's not worth trying until they stop but no one knows when this'll be and the largest hoster Rosne even quit because of this
@@grillo_419 There's nothing Valve would give people when it comes to the cosmetics, they're pixels so their real-world value would be a literal zero dollars, the only people that might get something are the people that had their cosmetics accepted and added into the game but how much money do you think that would mean for every single individual? I'd wager it would be a lot more than what Valve would want to ever give away so lightly.
Free-2-plays: "You only hold a fraction of my power"
They still need to revert what they did to f2p it's just cruel u can't call for a medic
@@Xeno911 they should allow voice commands, how would bot hosters harrass people with a voice command system that was intentionally made to be non spammable (you say a voiceline, there's a cooldown that gradually gets longer until you don't say anything for a long period of time, after 4-5 voicelines, it starts to take more than 3 seconds (after a voiceline is finished) to be able to say anything)
@@Xeno911 as a f2p player who never was able to call medic, i very sad.
Bring me back my x2 to save the heavy from the spy
Im sure it was stated by one of weezys videos that bot hosters used the f2p chat to advertise tf2 without bots for a price, in a way to stop that i believe it was the 1st try to savetf2 which gave way to them changing it so you have to pay to use chat which bot hosters did which basically was back at square 1 but worse since f2p can no longer use voice commands @dr.infernous9342
Zesty has a very good point in that a low chance of success was never an argument for not doing a boycott. If you're already admitting that your major effort has a low chance of success, why say no to another papercut to Valve? I am boycotting TF2. I hope all of you want to see this game fixed as well, so do your part. A long-term boycott is not feasible, I agree, but we can at least try to cripple this update.
You lost me with "Zesty"
@@Qira TF2 players having a bias against someone for having an opinion:
@@Qiraguys, it's a guy I don't like. We should close our eyes and pretend he's not here
You sound like a spoiled brat. Show some appreciation for the company that just fixed your favorite game. They absolutely didn't have to.
I'm 100% sure that you didn't watch this video.
i feel like a lot of people here just instantly assume you went "no dont stop spending it doesnt matter i have a gambling addiction" without watching the video. i guess the video DID talk about people jumping to conclusions.
I liked the point about thinking for yourself, i think a lot of people have just been siding with whatever group is the largest and most popular and not really thinking about it.
Boycott until F2Ps get their communication back.
It'd hopefully mean that Valve is confident enough in keeping bots out of the game to allow the hopefully small risk of bots spamming hate speech. (Something that continued to happen anyway which is even more reason to give F2Ps communication.)
Where's Silksong when this happen
God we need F2Ps have their communication back! We need more noise about this! Why is so little people talking about this??
@@archithroughSilksongs such a fun game, played it yesterday
we will get gta6 before that happenes
That and until we get an actual functioning anti cheat
The amount of money that TF2 makes is irrelevant. It is the statement that is sent to Valve through it. They can block out guess arriving to their headquarters, twitter hashtags, UA-camr videos, and any other social media conflicts that spring up.
What they can't just ignore is their streams of income. Even if a smaller one faulters, that's a huge deal to them. Any amount of loss revenue is harmful towards a company.
Not only that, but TF2 is a corner stone to their other games being financial juggernauts. TF2 is not the only micro economy game with disaillusioned player base. A financial boycott would be a massive rally cry for CS2 and it's own lack luster care.
You need to remember, that for a company, that they plan everything around budgets and current future predictions. If they're expecting *X* amount on *Y* day, but that amount isn't there. They panic. Its what forces them to action above all else.
Yes there's a lot of "what about isums" you can thrown.
Yes, you probably wouldn't get whales to stop, or other players in other regions, or asking work shoppers to take a risk of a lower payback.
But at the end of the day, we all rise up if Valve steps up. A more playable game means more players, more players means more money for valve, the work shoppers, and better items for us the player.
I hope this is making sence, I'm coming off of 3 hours of sleep.
Tl:DR, yes finical boycott is good. Should have been done sooner.
Deadlock is pretty good
Did you actually watch the video? No, the amount of money TF2 makes is relevant, in that a financial boycott can only reduce that amount by however much money it was already making, which is barely anything to begin with. The amount of money TF2 makes in a year can be made by Gaben in the same time it takes for him to drive to work.
@@BrancliffThen why make an anti-cheat? Why issue game bans? Why drop updates? If TF2 is that insignificant and resources at Valve are THAT (artificially) strained, why even bother? Clearly, TF2 is NOT that insignificant, and a boycott WOULD help.
@@Brancliffif the money that TF2 makes is so insignificant then why do they bother to make updates for more micro transactions, then? The Boycott is not about actually making Valve struggle with less money. Its about sending a message.
Because Valve barely has to do anything. Send out a few emails to creators who already did the hard work of actually making something, then they say "yes", then you sell their stuff. Still won't make tons of money but it'll sure make good money relative to how little effort it is. The intern can write a few emails in an hour.
I stopped my weezy video to watch the weezy video
im ambatuweeze 🤤
That's solid weezening
I’m wheezing rn
I'm getting all weezy inside of me 😵💫
You might wanna take some Adderall to watch his videos for days
The closing statement of this video is some of the realest shit you've said on this channel ngl. No one is sacred or should pretend to be so, fact is that companies rule this world and we just have to work around it and try to support the absolute worst ones as little as possible and in terms of multi-billion dollar companies we can do a lot worse than valve *glances at actiblizz*
If a boycott is what is needed i won't touch this game until the end of the summer update.
dutch*
@@dxcvvxd So do you have a plan?
hahahahaha.
@@grillo_419 playing the game ≠ throwing money at it
@@abildamil you are right, but i think a small break would do me and the community some good.
@@grillo_419 That's also a pretty good point! To me it's the opposite, I'm happy that I can finally play casual and I've been doing it daily since the ban waves started, but thankfully I never spent money on the game regardless of new items or not so I'm already doing my part by not supporting them financly hahah (except when I bought a sticky jumper back in 2012 to upgrade my account)
Don't let valve fool us again.
I will gladly when Deadlocked releases
@@archithroughIdiot
@@archithroughcopper 5 ragebait
That's exactly what you are doing. FixTF2 has no leverage here, this is just the "Valve acting better for a few weeks" phase.
Reminds me of the quote: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
zesty had a decent take on the boycott, because it doesnt make much sense to punish them for actually doing it, but i do get the worry about them just waiting for the summer check and then diping to other things, but i think that we can talk circles around what ifs and what could happen for ages, whats important currently is that stuffs being done, and things are good, if/when that changes then go back in imeditate hard ball, not just tf2 but valve in general, let them know right when they mess up that they did
but just right now it feels like it could send the wrong message, like we wont be happy no matter what
This is the answer. If we boycott starting now, that's just making them less incentivized to do anything for TF2. If we wait until the bots come back, then that incentivizes them to get rid of the bots again. Simple as.
I'm going to double this one. Boy cutting now would be punishing valve for doing something about the bots, because we're worried about The possibility that they might not keep doing it.
@@ChargedBonsai98would be a huge loss. The main reason it needs to happen now is cause the summer update is coming, that one snd the smissmass update are the highest profitable updates. Doing a boycott at any other point other than summer or christmas is meaningless since valve would already have the money
@@nardgamesso if no boycot then valve simply realized they can do it once and take the buck to dissapear once more. If someone abandons u for a while u dont trust them or reward them right away for coming back, u keep pushing them to prove they changed and are worthy of your trust once more.
@@mr.shadow8812 A boycott should be saved for if and only if valve neglects TF2 again, not on the chance that they might. To do anything else will make the TF2 community look like ungrateful children, Yes they need to continue to support VAC or replace it with a newer auntie cheating solution; a boycott is not an effective way to motivate them to do that.
14:11 Just because a person acts hypocritically doesn’t mean their moral claims should be discarded. People tend to act in accordance to their own self-interest yes, but why do you believe that’s morally permissible? A person who understands the cruelty of factory farms for instance and talks about the immorality of it is still correct about it even if he still eats meat on a regular basis, and his message should still be considered. No one can be perfect, but there’s no reason we can't be better.
Frankly I'm a little surprised you'd take such a position Weezy. Doing unethical things for the sake of personal enjoyment is basically the definition of selfish behavior, and I don’t understand why it should be viewed as "OK" just because everyone else does it and because almost no one acts perfectly moral all the time.
For the record, there are plenty of people who try to reduce their harm through their consumer choices and actually attempt to be consistent with their values. You can't force everyone to care, but the people who want to see the game improve will listen and likely apply it (especially since a TF2 boycott is ridiculously easy as it requires literally zero action).
I'm not trying to smartass you, I love your content and you're a very well spoken and intelligent guy (and please correct me if I misunderstood what you said), I just really don't like attempts to justify moral apathy.
I understand your perspective, but I don’t think he’s advocating for moral apathy he’s simply telling people this doesn’t make them the second coming of Christ. He’s simply trying to prevent some Reddit moral grand standing by saying that not participating in the boycott doesn’t make you immoral just as participation doesn’t mean you’re a good person. I hope that clears it up.
@@blakeoarmboy I don't think he's necessarily advocating for apathy either, but the message I gleaned from his statement strongly implicates that it's permissible to not be participating in the boycott even if you agree with it's message.
I 100% agree that a person who gives other people shit for not participating in the boycott is being a Reddit-esque grandstander since it's not like it's something that requires effort: But that's exactly the point.
I can totally understand why, for example, the average person would have a hard time reducing their consumption of animal products, even if they agree with the moral and environmental arguments for doing so. It's a pretty significant lifestyle change, and it would undo deeply ingrained habits we were raised on. But not having enough willpower to not waste money on a fucking hat game? I'm sorry, but that's sort of pathetic. Of course, the issue of the future of TF2 is one of little moral importance, but if a person claims to care about such a matter, they oughta put their money where their mouth is. If someone proclaims they don't care about the future of the game (which won't necessarily make them a bad person since again it's a trivial matter), that person can spend all the money they desire and shouldn't be criticized for it.
There's a big difference between the moral dilemmas Weezy mentioned in the video, and boycotting TF2. The latter takes significantly less effort than the former.
I'm sorry if I went all Reddit-atheist on you there, it's just this sort of thing is really frustrating to me.
😅
@@TheTrveRed such behavior surely is pathetic and selfish but I guess that’s just what people are (or a part tf2 community in particular. They might not be the majority but they’re surely the loudest ones).
What I think he says, and what I agree with, is that we gotta do what’s right, we gotta try to get people to do what’s right, but arguing with braindead addicts is not worth it. Or if your friend doesn’t have as much commitment as you and wants to buy funni hats, that’s not a reason to shit on them.
I’m convinced that these are mostly the same people that were against fixtf2 movement for absolutely no reason, called everything a treadmill work, etc. Society moment :( And that’s sort of what Zesty Jesus was talking about in his recent video “Nobody’s home”, even tho he doesn’t seem to support the movement very much.
A few days ago I asked in a match chat if we’re still boycotting valve because I don’t really follow the events, and the two people that responded were quite aggressive in their responses, literally saying that they sink all their money in Valve and hate the boycott because yes 🗿
So yeah people with such mindset do exist and we practically can’t do anything about them, only do our part
P.S. blakeoarmboy explained things very well, idk why I wrote this long ahh reply haha
Boycott it
Valve has no shareholders so no quarterly profit deadlines
Casual needs fixing, spectator mode needs to be brought back, dead weapons need buffing, MvM needs reviving
Years of neglect carry inertia
Wouldn’t that just give Valve an actual reason to shut TF2 down? They wouldn’t be making money from TF2 if we boycott it, so why maintain it?
@@tntrose7285imagine what scandal it would cause among other communities, especially the CS one.
@@tntrose7285 We as gamers, as consumers, need to stop settling for slop
If it gets shut down that's fine
The game will be rebuilt from the leaked source code
And Valve will lose their CS:GO players because they'll realise Valve can do much worse than forcing them into CS:2
You also unnecessarily screw over map creators, so I’m in for a boycott of the bots are back, I’m conflicted
Tf2 is already bringing very little money, unlike more popular valve games, so its deal not in money, but the difficult to doing anything in the game.
Y’all are so late to this bandwagon, I’ve been boycotting TF2 since the game came out (I’m poor lol)
It’s free tho?!?!🧐🧐🧐
@@MoleRat-ts5xb (in this context, boycotting TF2 means spending no money on cosmetics, weapons, or any other optional purchases, which I am amazing at)
8:14 Bro just hit the best rocket i have seen and he think that we wouldn`t notice?
i was just about to say that here, i saw the kill in the kill feed and nearly came
holy fuck weezy's insane
Bro he says wouldn't notice right after he hits it lol
I hope they also start banning all the bots that idle for items
They literally cannot. Even if they do thousands come back. If they can't even do it to their own games or other games than it's really impossible. Unless they can start developing a system where afk bots get banned instantly.
@@qua_xor3348 Yeah. Even if we boycott to ban these bots, as said in the video, the demand is too high for Valve to care, especially when they can invest in other methods. We can only dream about it...
It would be nice...
Do you mean all of the 2023 Christmas cases that I can't seem to avoid every time I boot up the game?
Not that's automated by the game@@bluefire7650
8:16 i'm just going to point out that sick airshot don't mind me
cant wait for weezy’s 100 crate gambling video when the summer ‘date drops! See you there!
Cant wait for you to actually watch the video
[Text communication is not available for this acount]
[Text communication is not available for this acount]
yooooooooooooooo I'm in this video! In the killfeed at 10:35 you see that "The Goober" gets a headshot. That's me! Cool.
I should feel like the Boycott plan should be our plan B once theres bots again
You don't need a 16 minute video to know a boycott will work. Just because valve decided to actually wake up and do something with tf2 now doesn't mean the protest should stop. Within a few months once this eventually blows over it will be business as usual and the status quo will be unchanged.
Also I'm not watching the whole video. I'm just posting this and leaving. FixTF2 should have been a boycott since day one, and all this amounted to was a whole lot of noise.
Good call.
The whole point was a lot of noise, did you not understand that?
You should at least watch the first 3-ish minutes, though, cuz Weezy directly addresses this point in a manner I feel is satisfactory.
The reasons of why #FixTF2 didn't start with a boycott on day one is in the video
A boycott is a absolutely terrible thing to do valve has already showed they don't care about TF2 so how the hell is a boycott going to affect them
People: you should boycott tf2
Me who was broke to begin with: I’m doing my part
Update: The report tool is actually doing something again. Multiple players have had their reports of bots and cheaters answered. This has gotten me thinking: if the report tool actually works again, does this mean we can potentially get all of the worst offenders of MvM toxicity banned too? Could we get Tacobot, Maribot, and all the other high-tour clowns exiled for good? I say we should give it a shot. If it works, that's great! And if it doesn't, then you can't say we didn't try.
I am Pyro. #FixTF2.
truer words have never been spoken, also, how's casual looking right now
W
I personally expect the bot fix to last until a month or two after Valve releases Deadlock, i think they're only fixing the bot and cheater issue so potential players of their shiny new fps won't look at their other multiplayer games and refuse to give the time of day to another game that'll likely be left to rot in a year or two.
Deadlock already has cheaters lol
deadlock literally has a bot problem. and its in CLOSED ALPHA TESTING! YOU HAVE TO BE INVITED TO IT! so yea, good luck getting people to play it
You keep harping on and on about how TF2's revenue is nothing in the face of Valve's earnings, yet you forget that TF2 is *_the literal forefather of microtransactions the bigger Valve games still use to this day,_* and any big hit to the TF2 market could send shockwaves across the entire Valve playerbase -- especially as the Counter-Strike community is already starting to feel the very same pains we had after Jungle Inferno.
Simply put, Valve is *_absolutely forced to maintain TF2 and its economy_* even if it doesn't earn them much, as otherwise it'd bring their whole house of cards down with them (there's a very similar occurrence to this IRL, it's called a "bank run", look it up); the problem is, we've been letting Valve get away with literal bonedust levels of maintenance for almost 8 years now just to keep the game economy going, and unless we do something to grind the game's economy down to a crawl, they'll never feel compelled to do anymore than that.
*_This is why a collective boycott effort would do way more damage to Valve than your game revenue numbers would indicate:_* you put the game's economy on full stop, and Valve becomes at risk of its very own bank run across all of its microtransactioned games, and that in turn would give us leverage -- leverage to demand for bigger and better maintenance on the game, bigger and better quality control, bigger and better content, and so on.
Fact of the matter is, Valve simply cannot afford to make all of its lavish pet projects with just Steam's revenue share alone, they absolutely need the money from their bigger games, *_and we are in a prime position_* to make that side of Valve's earnings come crashing down if we chose to. So let's choose to.
Would suggest watching this video in 0,75x because weezy is such a yapper bro QwQ
This video did made me reconsider my plans. I was going to not spend any money cuz I am broke, but now I will not spend any money cuz I'm broke and boycotting my wallet.
Also, didn't saw that meme, and, well...
We got tf2 fixed before gta 6
I am so sick of hearing about how "TF2 is only 0.0001% of Valve's revenue, so a boycott is useless!" That argument goes both ways. If Valve doesn't care about TF2's revenue, how come they continue to monetize the game after all these years? Why haven't they fully abandoned it yet if the revenue matters so little? It's because they do care about TF2's revenue, and a boycott will work better than anything else. The only thing Valce cares about is the game's revenue. If we want to negotiate, we need to use what they care about as leverage. They don't care about a soy campaign on Twitter. They care about a loss of revenue. Also, stop saying TF2 is fixed. It is not fixed. This is the same trap the community falls into after every movement. This is why nothing ever changes with this game. People are willing to do anything as long as it doesn't require sacrifces and will INSTANTLY forgive Valve for the smallest of fixes. People should be offended that all they are willing to do is manually ban bot and cheater accounts after everything the game has been through. All of this is why I have been saying FixTF2 won't work and now say it hasn't worked.
ppl saynig that seem ot forget Tf2 was one of the 1st games that implemented an actual internal economy successfully and its continued health and existence is what enables other Valve Ips to dare ot try the same.
TF2 failing for good would be the beginning of the end for other, bigger valve IPS that are based on the same principles.
After not watching the video and choosing to look at the comments first, i can say with confidence that weezy's stance at the start of the #FixTF2 movement was that a boycott wasnt needed (weezy stated in a discord call with other TF2ubers that we shouldnt boycott tf2) (it is unlikely but plausable that weezy was buying mvm tickets at this time so he could say "i wont buy anything on steam ever again")
Weezy was questioned by others in the discord call about why we shouldnt boycott tf2 and he brushed the question off, there is a video by a smaller creator about it but im too lazy to look for it
Edit: After watching this video i think my comment is a schitzofrenic rambling and if i was a bitch i should delete it🥵
TLDR: funny banana man no do boycott at first because GAMBLING WOO!!!
@@DeployedNi think he said he didint want to boycott at the time because he has a gambling addiction to MvM tickets lol
@@Teixas666 Not just VALVe's own IPs, but other games that put a value on their virtual item.
Because they need to make sure their cash cows don't stop making money. If TF2 servers went completely offline, that would show Counter Strike, a game that makes billions for valve, that all the things they've spent money on could be taken at any time.
Me, a f2p: I'm four parallel universes ahead of you
so, how many times have you seen "voice communication is not available on this account"
Overstating the boycott as if it's a silver bullet is just too naive. And, in fact, it may profit the company instead.
Many other boycott attempts I've seen on other games quickly degenerated into 'pointing guns at people still spending' fest, from protesting against the company. Which brought up massive dramas within the game's community, eventually blurring up the focal point until it's no longer recognizable. What happened after? People caught in the crossfire of drama got fed up, left the game, and public outcry against the company died down. And... The company won, since those whiny customers are gone.
To make a movement big enough, you should keep it tolerant. Therefore I think boycott should never be forced. Do it if you want, as much as you like- that's my stance against the boycott.
Honestly i am glad a boycott wasnt the main goal of the movement, the people who would agree on not spending money on tf2 would have been likely not doing so already
Oh yeah, if boycott will never work, then why Valve fixed the unusual drop rate bug within the same day or two days. surely tf2 don't make ton of money but it seem they care enough to fix that somehow.
Also the boycott is about that Valve doesn't deserve your money, they done nothing. the bot is one issues of many tf2 suffer from. we need quickplay we need to undo the bad nerfs of MYM etc.... #BringBackQuickplay
Honestly, this video just kind of struck me as a "Shift blame away from me video." Weezy has been questioned about why fix tf2 didn't include a boycott several times, and there was even a podcast where it was argued with other tf2 tubers. And Weezy says that a boycott won't do anything because of how much money Valve already makes. And then now he promotes a boycott after mentioning that Valve won't care due to the money that Valve already makes. It just seems a little bit confusing to mention why a boycott won't work, and they immediately go to support it. It just seems like Weezy is shifting his opinion while keeping any blame away from him for making the #fixtf2 movement not include a boycott so he can just look better. If I'm not understanding this properly, please make me understand, because I'm confused right now. Though a boycott would most likely work, it's still money that Valve makes, and a corporation like Valve does things with this money. If they lose that money, they will do something to make up for it. Valve, as a company, needs money to function, and if they lose a random few million dollars off tf2, Valve is expected to do something to make up for the money they lost.
They clearly can't handle criticism and have to make themselves look good no matter the cost. Owning up to their mistakes would make them look bad.
Yes, next question please.
I’m an F2P and I don’t spend money on TF2 anyway. The medic call restriction sucks so I need to play community servers but I still enjoy the game.
if Bots are back by the summer Update, yes.
This video is basically what I've been saying in the comments. Like yeah, don't give your money to anyone you don't trust or don't wish to support, but there wasn't really a need to make it a main focus. Just make people more aware where they're spending their cash.
An example I use, I came from the Cod community, we had a small boycott there due to a content creator advocating for it. What happened afterwards was that the publishers cranked that microtransaction bs way, way, way up. It's only gotten worse and the gameplay went way downhill for it.
Was it because of the boycott? Probably not, it barely hurt their bottom line, but the fact the games got so bad most of the veterans have legit quit, assuming it wasn't their job, afterwards, yeah.
Y'all this game is 17 years old, a boycott will just give Valve the excuse they need to never touch TF2 again.
Found the gambler
@@vectorsahel5420dude they make billions
Weezy you seem to have very little understanding of how companies work on the inside. Whatever happens in tf2 won't have an effect on the steam deck or something. Tf2 really is a tiny portion of revenue for valve, so cutting it won't do anything to valve at large. But, when the accountants analyze each game, charts will show a giant sudden dip in revenue for tf2 specifically. Companies don't do damage control for a slowly declining game, because that's normal. What's not normal is a gigantic spike downwards in a short amount of time. A boycot doesn't have to hurt valve or deprive them of their valuation. It has to send a message to valve in the language a company understands best: fiscal performance. When you see a giant sudden shitting-itself of a source of revenue you will suspect something is wrong and report it to your boss, and that's what a boycott is supposed to mean. Boycotts that are meant to deprive companies of revenue are a long gone thing of the past. In the modern age those are basically impossible. Remember, a boycott is a message in the language of a company.
People when the #saveTF2 they design to get rid of the bots actually get rid of the bots:
Edit: Just to make things clear, I started playing TF2 10 months ago
It's not that, yes the bots are gone
But what if they come back soon? And valve will just leave again
@N1K0_683 You are clearly new to the Valve cycle for TF2
There's a cycle with tf2
Bots work around VAC and populate servers -> valve ignores it -> community uproar -> valve bans bots and maybe makes negligible update to vac -> bots work around VAC and populate servers again -> etc etc.
We need to get valve to make some permanent solutions to the problem, whether that being getting someone on the treadmill and manually banning bots forever or getting an actually functioning anti-cheat.
@ChargedBonsai98 when was this last time this happened? Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first instance of the so called "cycle"
@@jaemotoo the first savetf2 and many other times im which certain updates made bots dissapear for some days.
There was a comment earlier today, where someone said that the decision whether we should boycott didn't require a 16 minute video, but it's surprisingly missing now... hmmm...
yes, next question
Do you really need hats that badly? Or to keep gambling for them and MvM drops? It's not a question at all.
The video started good but then ya threw a "we all do this", no we don't. I got most of my items through trading, achievements and random drops and I don't really care about expensive stuff that makes the characters an eyesore to look at. The point is I only spend 5€ in TF2 and I've been playing it for 12 years because at the end of the day all I care about is playing the goddamn game, like just because I can spend money on it doesn't invalidate the fact that there's problems that need to be fixed, it's a "Oh you own a phone? That's produced using third world labour, opinion discarded" kind of mentality, it's something that needs to be changed because that kind of attitude doesn't go anywhere and just reinforces the mindset that things are bad and there's nothing we can do about them. So yeah TLDR Yes! A Boycott is good!! Don't settle for mediocrity, always strive for better things to create a better future.
Very based, I personally like to purchase some nice cosmetic or two every few months of playing, but I haven't played regularly for 2 years
@@griffinbastion Yeah exactly! I honestly think that's way better than burning money on a chance to get that specific item.
Yeah, I can agree with this word for word. Quite well said, Weezy.
boycott the game regardless, valve needs to get their shit together, it took them 2 years to do the bare minimum
If we boycott now, that doesn't really give valve any incentive to keep tf2 alive. If we wait until the bots come back, then that rewards them for doing good and punishes them for doing bad.
5 years*
bots first cropped up in 2019
its refreshing to see how much weezy have grown since his first video about fixtf2. thats some insane development in a short amount of time, my big respects to you
We should keep in mind, and I like Weezy I mean no disrespect, he doesn’t reeeaaallly know what he’s talking about. Like he can give his opinion but by no means is he qualified to say if a boycott would work or not.
He wouldn’t even entertain the idea when him and his two dweebs put this “movement” together. There’s absolutely no reason why he couldn’t insist on people not spending money on the game, even if he doesnt think it would work. Seriously, NO reason why he was so reluctant to say “don’t spend money on this game we’re trying to get fixed”. He could have said that but he refused to.
You didn't watch the video, start to finish, haven't you?
@@xvxjon6626 you referring to the segment at the end where he compares boycotting tf2 to saying you’re against sweatshop laboring until it means losing your favorite blanket? You mean when he said your personal enjoyment of tf2 shouldn’t come after trying to protest for improvements?
Or maybe you’re yapping about something ELSE. Because what he said at the end just made his stance even more ridiculous and unbecoming of some sort of leader.
I’m interested for your elaboration on this cryptic, nonsense question.
Don't forget F2Ps are still deprived of basic human rights in casual. No text, no voice, no "MEDIC!".
Can we finally reverse this stupid change?
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes
I do think it’s more important to demonstrate that “TF2 is CS2’s future”. Like, ignoring PR, even if TF2 just gets nuked out of existence, I don’t think Valve would care that much about the monetary loss.
However, shutting down TF2 will demonstrate that the items in TF2 are inherently “valueless”, which will cause a serious dent in the total value of CS2 items. And I do believe this is the part that Valve seriously does care.
So yeah, I do think the currently progress in TF2 is also thanks to the problematic release of CS2. Valve needs to demonstrate that they won’t give up on CS2 by working on TF2 some more. So I do think our narrative should be more focused on the “TF2 is CS2’s future” aspect.
You've agreed already that all of the itens in your account are valueless when you've accepted the steam user terms. Valve can legally delete any marketplace and they cannot be forced to pay you back.
Also, tf2 is viewed as "that old game from Valve" that people remember playing on their childhood, not a potential money making market. Cs2 has an active competitive scene that people care very much about it, but TF2 doesn't. Most people outside of this community won't really care.
It doesn't matter how much money TF2 earns. If the boycott is meaningful enough, Valve will notice how there is a dent in their profits from a typically stable source of revenue. The larger the dent, the more alarming it becomes since revenue is the #1 priority for every company. Furthermore, if all Valve needs to do is pick some stuff from the workshop every now and then to earn millions from TF2, that should be an indispensable reason to do something. That's basically a money printer working 24/7, even if it generates less money compared to Steam, CS2, Dota and other stuff.
Furthermore, the boycott shouldn't just be about seasonal keys. People should stop buying standard mann co. keys, paints and other stuff from the mann co store. That includes tour of duty tickets, Weezy. I love me some gambling here and there, but we should NOT give them more than they deserve when they can't even be bothered to invest that money back into the game.
I mean he can just buy from third party sites thats what I do
@@awestie That's more of a half assed solution because you're still maintaining a market for the economy. If people keep buying stuff on the steam community market or 3rd party websites, traders and gamblers will have an incentive to continue buying from the mann co store. That's why I personally decided to stop buying anything and everything tf2 related until further changes, but I understand if not everyone wants to participate that way.
The day I'd stop boycotting is the day that f2ps get to speak again, and the bots are gone still at that point
I'm still wondering why bot hosters do it? I understand the idle bots for drops, but why do aimbot hosters spend their money on something with no clear benefit? Do they really just hate a 17 year old game that much as to waste thousands of dollars on setups to run bots? How do these people organize? How many are there?
nice to see weezy doing better than when we last saw him
My favorite part was when Weezy admitted to abusing adderall and proceeded to buy MVM tickets to fuel his gambling addiction. Truly the TF2 youtuber of all time.
BRO ITS NOT THAT HARD TO JUST NOT SPEND MONEY ON A VIDEO GAME❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️ WHAT AM I LISTENING TO, I REALLY CAN'T STAND THIS COMMUNITY
You clearly have not watched the entire video.
Always give your money to triple a companies. Always pirate indie games. It's your moral duty.
Yeah. Not gonna be paying for a single crate/key/item until we get some permanent changes around tf2
lol I swear I can mentally see Zesty's thumbnail on his Boycott video fading in slowly as you ranted about why Boycotting wasn't the 1st option. Missed opportunity tbh XD
Aside from all this financial boycotting...
As a former f2p I felt horrible not being able to use the most basic communication in game because of a bunch of low life losers that hosted bots. Valve has to bring back communication to free accounts so that less f2ps have to use moon runes to call for medic or help.
#savetf2 #fixtf2
I still stand by the idea that a boycott should have been the top priority of the community moving forward, whether or not there was a social movement being planned or in-progress. Of course Valve wouldn't tremble at the loss of pennies generated by TF2 (compared to the normal amount of income they acquire regularly by Steam, CS:GO etc.). BUT, I believe that as customers we have the right to demand a working product, and if Valve is not willing to provide something serviceable, then they don't deserve any monetary compensation. Is not simply "I want the videogame to work", it's a matter of principle, to not let us be taken advantage of by a multibillion company who is not intersted in it's consumer base. If you like to spend money in this videogame (or any videogame as a matter of fact) it's your decision and that's fine, but at least we shall be conscious of the things we are offered against what we received. And don't spend money on shitty cosmetics.
YES WEEZY, ITS NOT A QUESTION.
CHANGE THE TITLE TO BOYCOTT TF2 OR SOMETHING MORE DEMANDING DONT ACT LIKE ITS A PASSIVE QUESTION.
Sournale people can spend their money on what they want
@@pixel__huh BUT VALVE ONLY WANTS UR WALLET SO DONT GAMBLE!!
@@Sournale let people spend their money on their choices
@@pixel__huh"people can spend money on whatever they want" when I contribute money to n*zi charity (suddenly I can't spend money on whatever I want)
a note i wish was made in this video about valve's silence;
bringing attention to bots and cheaters is good morale for the innocent playerbase, but it also gives info to the cheaters. if they know if/when valve is working against them, they might change their usual behavior (stop cheating, stop playing, change method, etc.) which could make things a bit harder to deal with.
having periods of silence is a bit disheartening, but it also leaves cheaters in the dark. once a ban wave or update or something happens, they'll hafta figure out how they're going to respond once it happens and they hafta recover. if they know a bit more beforehand (even just that valve is doing something) they'll have a bit more prep time and might be more wary. they can start thinking and working on countermeasures earlier than if they just got struck with no warning. keep cheaters in the dark.
you its crazy when the mvm youtuber playes casual
On one hand, show Valve how thin the ice still is. On the other hand, MF Doom hat and Medic Gordon Freeman set. It really is a tough call.
TF2 Gamblers when they are told not to spend money on a broken product:
I'm not sure a boycott immediately after Valve took the action we demanded is the right idea. That's like a union going on strike after getting the concessions they demanded at the bargaining table. If the playerbase boycotts this summer update, what's to stop Valve from saying "welp, that was a lot of money wasted, nothing will make these players happy," and packing it in completely?
We should, but I'm sure your mvm gambling addiction won't let you
If you aren’t enjoying the party, you leave. If you are enjoying the party, you stay. Do what you want. But don’t hold out hope that massive change will take place depending on what you do. It is obvious that valve doesn’t care.
Short answer : Yes; Valve pulled a 200 IQ move on us, and as awkard as it is I will not bless Volvo with my money or Virginity.
For me, will totally give them my money when Deadlock releases
@@archithroughif you do that you are actually a dissapointment
@@Sypitz Haters gonna hate 😎
@@archithrough you haven’t even been around for valve in their prime. This game is just MOBAwatch slop
@@Sypitz Not to mention Deadlock already has cheating clients and it hasn't even released yet xd.
I've pulled out years ago by selling my aussies. If I want a gambling addiction I found it in gacha games.
I find my time spent there far more enjoyable and I don't even have to spend any money to try my luck.
This community has an evergreen content sludge that constantly recycles the same topics, at some point you can just tell people make essays just to practice for school.
If I don't play the game, I might as well stop watching... but where's the fun in that?
There's really nothing holding me attached to this game as it is currently but hell if I'm not willing to see where this story eventually goes.
TF2 Community be like:
"WE ARE SO BACK ‼‼"
next day...
"it's over "
I'm boycotting anyway, because I'm broke 💔
Idk, but i feel like us boycotting valve is gonna send the wrong message to valve.
Exactly. A boycott now is the equivalent of giving a child a slap on the wrist after cleaning up their toys.
Who cares what Valve thinks? They think of you as money. So stop showing up to their doorstep.
It's a billion dollar corporation I don't give a fuck how they feel. they need to be held responsible for their products
What are they gonna do, stop paying the server costs and check for the one guy working on it, which will both be more than covered by the games profits anyway?
thats the problem, they see the entirety of team fortress as one of their cash registers, there is no reason for valve to just not care about whats happening in tf2 and only keep the servers alive to not get bad press. They already tried to take responsibilty for their neglect and i'd rather have them continue trying than trying once and thought its not worth it to try again.
number 4 is just a tu quoque fallacy.
the utility clothes bring you, despite being made in bad conditions is necessary. on top of that, it doesn't really matter which clothes you buy since they're in general made in bad conditions. So you NEED it. that's not something that can be easily abstained from. acting like that is similar to a digital game where cosmetics are entirely optional? come on now
To boycott or not
Spend money on what you want
But be smart with it
Poetry
(You just know Weezy is going to unbox)
It cost money for valve to do the bot removal, they justified that expense of money under the expectation that they would make that money back on a player wave. If that player wave does not materialize or does not result in revenue for valve, there is a very real chance that they will write off any future maintenance of TF2 as a loss and we will never get any bot fix again.
If Valve believes that TF2 is a bigger problem than it is worth they could just shut down the servers that they have to run to keep the game going; and you might say that community servers will provide games for people to play on, but they can't substitute for the item servers.
U do know the shutting servers now is not feasable at all. Valve and everyone knows why. If it happens the whole market crashes, then other games by valve like csgo would see “oh shit if that happened to them then it can to us too!” And they start panic selling and their market crashes too and so on into other games. Shutting down the game like that would make huge revenue losses beyond tf2 itself
@@mr.shadow8812 I think in this case CS2 will do it extremely quickly because in them too have problems with hackers and bots
@@durkaman most probably, the chaos it would cause is insane. If a game like tf2 is to be shutdown it has to be done meticulously and carefully and while the game is in a fine state so that it doesnt trigger a chain reaction
If it were to be shut down while is bad like today then people would think that valve just gave up and panic big time
"Don't listen to UA-camrs."
*_I have decided that I will, based on that logic._*
I can almost guarantee the fact he's so hardline against "moral grandstanding" is because his like, entire channel's predicated on handing Papa Gaben money for MVM tickets.
I have a lot to say in regards to this;
For starters, I'm happy to hear that the petition has geared now into the boycott. That said though, it may be a paper cut to valve for TF2's revenue, but you're not looking at what's happened as a whole. The petition, for all intents and purposes, worked. It sent a message that hundreds of thousands of people took the time to sign that they're mad about what valve's doing.
That said, what was the website's traffic as a whole? How many people stopped to read about the problem but just didn't sign? How many people didn't go to the website at all, but heard about Valve neglecting it's players and shoveling microtransactions instead of fixing the game? I'd reckon to say multimillions of people who may not have directly interacted at least know what's happened.
When Deadshot or the next big Valve IP releases, there will be people who say, "Hey, aren't they the people that screw over their live-service players?". It matters that one of the random people who saw that article may rethink spending money with a company that mistreats it's customers. Saying that people need to lessen their morals and not spend money on a broken product is completely stupid. Valve's not forcing child labor in Africa to make keys for crates and they don't have Chinese sweatshops making the new cosmetics. After what's happened and what's been reported, players in CS will rethink purchases, TF2 players will rethink their purchases, Steam players may rethink their purchases. It impacts every single thing Valve releases and creates in the future.
I'm going to admit that for over a decade, since I was 17 and started working, I burned money in TF2 like a furnace. I had, and have been recovering from in general, from being a gambling addict. I have spent nearly 45 thousand dollars on Steam (not solely on TF2, mind you) over the last 14 years of playing TF2. I have credit card debt from it still. I had a severe problem. I'm much better now, and the protest still even helped me in general realize that I need to take stronger care of my finances period because I have a wife and son now. That debt I gave myself for my addiction still chases and haunts me.
Until roughly day 30 of the update when we saw real fixes happening, I made the decision to not spend a cent on Steam period. I missed the Summer sale. I didn't buy Shadow of the Erdtree when it released, and I didn't spend microtransactions on anything even outside of Steam. It's self control. It's discipline. I refuse to be led to the trough like a pig for Valve to dump a bucket of slop just so I get a dopamine fix anymore. When I see improvement, I'll return as a responsible customer. If we're going to continue to only get slop (No disrespect to our community) in the form of community map updates and cosmetics, the least they can do is add some fucking spices to it in the form of management of their game to make it all palatable.
You should have been encouraging players to have some fucking self respect and self control like Zesty has. It was wrong of you guys not to make this a focal point of the petition from the beginning and hearing excuses how it only affects TF2 is extremely frustrating. We needed cold water splashed the way Zesty did it. I don't agree with the dude on every take he has, most of them honestly, but just like how SaveTF2 failed because we all played nice, this time needed the anger and frustrations. Doing everything in our power to wake people up and to snap people out of it was what we needed. You guys were willing to send a message to Valve, but not to the people who mindlessly spend money just because you thought they were a lost cause. Even if you convinced a single whale or addict to stop gorging on slop, that's a giant deal.
From here on, it's moot like you said. Bans are rolling in and the repercussions are real. That said, we now have a ton of new and old faces returning to a game that they can play. Those players need to be encouraged to not get comfortable though. I can say with 100% truth that I haven't really laughed at, smiled at, or frankly enjoyed TF2 for nearly 6 years now because of the problems we faced. But as of late, I'm not just enjoying TF2 but I'm having fun in TF2. If things continue to just be the bare minimum playable, that's all I can ask for. But I'll be damned if I ever spend any large amount on TF2 or Steam after the slop we were drip fed. Even if I had hundreds of thousands at my disposal, it will never happen again. But, that said, I don't mind throwing 20 dollars at an update if it continues to be playable. We all need to be better. As human beings we need to be better about spending money on bad products.
Thanks for reading my TED talk, I'll be in Dustbowl.
Not spending a penny on tf2 until we get a major update
I'm so cynical against Valve that not even the "comic leak" happened recently gave me a bit of hype.
I know Valve too well to trust them so early.
I won't stop supporting the boycott until something actually big is being made.
the whole video's theme
"Shut up and do what you want to"
We even got a new comic confirmation!
I really really want the conga taunt tho😭😭😭
steal one
Or just wait a little till something changes
Trade for one
I honestly wish that TF2 would be available for consoles, it would not only force the devs to actually care about game because if they do implement a cross play/ cross save they would need to care for TF2 im just saying asking it to be ported to current consoles would be cool and probably draws more attention to the bot problem or not i could be stupid for just suggesting
I mean you shouldn't be buying lootboxes on principle alone. Simple as
Im surprised it took like me a full 2 days to figure out the banana man I played with on Frontier, is the same banana man I see on the youtube
Fianlly, Weezy is going to hold back his gabling addiction. Major W
is everyone just gonna scroll past the nuttiest airshot at 8:14
yay early morning weezy vid
I feel like just to be safe we should still boycott during the summer update. If no bots come around during it, at least not to the point where the update's unplayable, then we can say that maybe we can go back to giving valve money. But knowing this could be a measure being taken just for now until the update drops, I think it's best to be cautious and remember to vote with the method that speaks the loudest: Our wallets.
You're basically competing with CS2, Dota2, deadlock, the steam platform and other projects like steam deck to get a bigger piece of the 400 employee pie.
Good luck
A thing I have seen one time:
2 "Anti-bot bot (killing only bots" bots joined the game. One left instantly, the other ran around the map like, well, a bot. Not doing anything to players. It would be cool to see it in work, but I prefer just not having bots.
Who the hell is buying keys in 2024 anyway?
People love gambling
@@kraye_ Let's play Mann Up to get an australium!
EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it! EEH Aww Dang it!
Many people
My little brother
me, before the movement
Saying Valve wouldn't care if they lost a few million dollars is a braindead take. Just because they make billions doesn't mean they don't care about a few millions.
If they were like and just went "baah it's only a few million" over and over they'd quickly face financial problems.