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Here's a bad idea, buff it. You heard me add a damage buff to it that you can do so it increases even more than normal, why? High tours would get used to it and begin hating the buff so that when you remove the buff they won't really hate the normal gas no more since its technically now debuffed(it's now back to its og form) or if you want to be petty, lower the amount of times you can upgrade it's recharge speed
You know something is terribly wrong when some people actively endorse cheaters and bots in MvM, but have a mental breakdown when someone equips the Gas Passer.
I did not knew that the same problem that plague TF2's PvP into unplayability is endorsed in PvE. How someone that go so morally low dare having such high expectation on what weapon someone can and can't use while using such draconian tactics to make sure no one use a specific weapon. I still believe that the gas passer would be better for both PvP and PvE if it had a cooldown like the jarate, mad milk and flying guillotine instead of a charge on damage like soldier's backpacks.
I remember when I decided to play MvM with my friend. I got kicked cuz I used a Gas. 4 snipers.... 4 snipers, standing in the same place who called me a cheater. And they said its skill issue to play as a sniper in MvM. I wonder 🤔
High Tour MvM players will allow a sniper bot to basically steamroll the mission while they dig in their own belly button for lint. Whatever they have to say about balance is basically moot.
The two arguments of MvMers are: "Why aren't you killing the bots fast enough!? Use the meta efficient strategy or banned! We need to clear the mission as fast as possible so I can get a quarter-pull on the slot machine lever!" "Ok, I'll use the Gas Passer to clear bots as fast and efficient as possible." "Nooooo! That makes the game too easy in the wrong way and clears the mission too fast! You need to play a less efficient class so the mission takes longer!" Or, "Pyro shouldn't be able to make this totally meaningless number that has no effect on gameplay or rewards go higher than MY totally meaningless number that has no effect on gameplay or rewards! That's not fair!"
@@PybroLuv3syuAny time I see a cheating sniper, I just report that account. The basic fact they have cheats essentially means they've definitely used those cheats elsewhere besides MVM.
nah bro you gotta understand, the spammable long range option I can do every second isn't as lame as the worse low range option that happens every 30 seconds.
@@fighter5583i dont think thats true. just because people can use a tool for another purpose, it doesnt mean that they will do that. if you think that, you would have to ban irl knives for being the same problem
>be me >playing Gear Grinder with Randoms >decides to use Gas Passer >Teammate gets mad at me for using Gas Passer >Check Scoreboard >150+ tour Sniper using Heatmaker
I think even if he wasn't a high tour, the annoyance would be from them not getting enough charges for the heat maker. I get mad at both when I wanna demoknight but can't collect heads cause my targets get deleted
@Timeward76 you underestimate my power. But demoknight aside. Theres also me play gun scout and other unpopular mvm methods and still not getting anything to shoot at. On a side note, I find gas to be uninteresting and it's very much meta imo. I use detonator or use the gas without the upgrade to use my axtinguisher on unaware bots.
@@carolthepyro899 honestly the way to have fun with the gas is to use it just for medic killing. Throw it when medics drop then have fun with the backburner til more come. That and bursts of damage against giants, really. You get your big bangs of kill sounds and contribute to the team without annoying them too much.
@Timeward76 you do you. I personally find it bland, and if my intent was on medic dropping in mass or big bursts od damage, I'd play sticky demo (tho I prefer going for pipe demo. Infinitely more interesting).
another thing is that they're LITERALLY CHEATING with BOTS so they can kill HORDES of robots through the WHOLE TOUR and say it's a strategy that requires skill, but when someone uses a weapon that kills like 7 bots each 3 seconds at best it becomes absolutely unfair and unbalanced. i genuinely think these people have some heavy mental problems, and it isn't even a joke.
TF2 Players all have mental illness. Its just some have it way worse than others. In this case, MVM players have such high levels of brainrot to play what amounts to be a slightly altered tf2 but get mad when someone has a slightly easier strategy
I get the sentiment, but nobody enjoys sitting through traffic. Some people actually enjoy the gameplay of MvM, which the Gas Passer completely trivializes into non-existentence for a good portion of the team
So to add to the “Pyro didn’t earn this” theory, I think the other thing that gives it credence is that Pyro is overall not a respected class. Besides being a furry, Pyro players are also stereotyped as having monkey brains because they believe the flamethrower takes no effort to wave around and get kills. Giving a “kill small robots instantly” upgrade on a class that is already disrespected was only going to escalate the hate.
it's not like other classes have a 'kill robots instantly' strategy or anything... >demoman sticky spam w/ medic >rocket specialist damage soldier >explosive headshot sniper >shared canteen crit medic on heal target
@@woobgamer5210 Yeah but: - Demo and Soldier are classes for a highly skilled and competitive players (read: they are generally the meta choice for power classes) - Sniper is OP only in skilled hands (read: in hands that can point and click) - Medic is the healer, criticizing the healer is a dick move (read: his BS strat is ok because it lets me do all the killings as the pocketed Demo/Soldier) So naturally these strats get exempted.
1:50 The "some reason" is because the Gas Passer is a Pyro weapon, and there is a small, bizarre, but vocal contingent of the TF2 community that hates Pyro simply for existing. That's it, that's all there is to this. Gas Passer is a quick way to wipe out tons of robots, sure, but other classes can easily do the same - the only difference is that Gas Passer is *Pyro's* way, and some people will take any opportunity to try to belittle Pyro.
NGL, I'm one of those people who hates pyro, but like... I hate fighting him. MvM is a fight against bots. Who cares, as long as game will be easier and shorter, go ahead, spam gas passer as much as you can. I'll hate you if you won't use it.
if it was on the spy, it would be "SPY IS SAVED! SPY IS GOOD IN MVM" and- you know what? A sapper replacement to the gas passer would be cool. a thermite sapper?
has not changed since before hats and weapons beside stock were a thing. The hate only fuels the fire for pyro mains everywhere. With all the :3 faces for half team crackburner or uber-phlog pushes, gotta share the love~!❤🔥
I honestly disagree, I’m one of the people of absolutely despise pyro but that’s only if it’s w+m1, if that pyro starts air blasting or using his flare gun I’m not gonna be complaining anymore. And even if there are people who are like that, it would only be like 5 mentally insane people
The scottish resistence is just a gas passer with extra button clicks Edit: yes I know that it's a very reductive statement. But if you want an actual argument here goes: If you're going to advocate against the gas passer, advocate against other overpowered strategies too. Advocate against the big rock idle sniper Advocate against the Scottish Resistance+Medic crit spamming combo Be consisent
demo and pyro handshake on being braindead to play one just sticky spams in all modes, the other... is actually harder to play in mvm due to always having to be close to the things that can shred you, its just braindead in pvp...
@@woobgamer5210And on top of that, Soldier is more braindead and easy than both classes combined, having more effectiveness at all ranges, with a higher health pool.
@@appliedatoms7066 My guy, before every round begins there are large, glowing, directional arrows that float above the ground and show what path the robots carrying the bomb take.
Sniper can do the same shit with an added slow every .6 seconds. Even a mediocre sniper who only hits 1/5 headshots will be essentially throwing a gas passer every 3 seconds. If there's a giant, that number will increase dramatically if they're using the heatmaker. Also MvM pyro has a rep of dying for a reason outside the hate, aggro control is a non-trivial task that requires team coordination, which isn't gonna happen in a random Mann Up lobby, and when it goes wrong pyro is first to die for it because he has to be in close range to do any damage at all and he's high up on the list of default aggro priority. One wrong peek on early waves and you're paste.
I relate to this, im bad at playing sniper but in mvm, even with a 2nd grade like the bazaar bargain you carry the game more than the rest of your team and they're telling me that a fcking fart can is just more overpowered than this ???? Yeah- They're just degenerate gambling addicts who prioritize efficiency first
Explosive headshot is also a stupidly powerful upgrade, yes. There just didn't need to be another stupidly powerful upgrade that takes even less effort to get value out of in the gamemode
@@luigifan4585 if you don't like gas passer you shouldn't like hitman's heatmaker sniper, scotres demo, conch beggar's soldier, phlog pyro on tanks, heavy vs giants, the existence of projectile shield, crit medic, pretty much everything that's meta is overpowered as shit. also, the upgrade exists, so what are you even trying to say?
@SamuelTrademarked all of those besides projectile shield and heavy's close range damage require a large amounts of credits dumped into them in order to make them overpowered A big issue in Explode on Ignite is the massive power spike given the amount of credits needed to buy it for only 400 And I also stopped playing Mann Up and just do community made missions instead, which actually try and balance stuff and make the wave design interesting and enjoyable
There's an alarmingly large demographic of the playerbase that thinks aimbotting is fine in MVM, but the gas passer - a part of the game by default which you don't have to actively download external software in order to use - isn't.
When I asked someone what else would be another good secondary weapon I could use, they recommended the mann melter and it became pretty clear that they've never played mvm pyro before
@@vinnyandlin8510Definitely had an impression back when I played that Pyro in general was just suboptimal. Years of watching Weezy have erased that preconception, but I think among all the ego tripping reasons why the elitists went to war with the Gas Passer is an irrational desire to keep Pyro in the same pit of obscurity and uselessness as Spy. Though tame, your point about the people you dealt with clearly having never played Pyro supports this: they don’t play Pyro, and if everyone followed their meta, nobody else would either, the meta says Pyro is situational at best and garbage at worst.
Found several gas pyros on my tours, but it rarely impacted the game. We still get pushed back, we still get to do most of the job. It's when we get high tour demos that the game becomes autoplay
Players have always had a dislike of Pyro in every game mode, "W+M1" type mindset, but if the gas passer is doing the same shit as the others, it isn't an issue
The gas passer is a life saver on higher difficulties so i dont complain if the 50 pocket medics powering the giant heavy or the giant scouts carrying the bomb instantly die. Pyro is basically perfect as a clean up role in MVM while the team can focus on destroying the tanks and stopping the bomb.
high tours: wants you to hurry up and press F4 in 2 sec so they can speed run though the tour to get loot at the end. also high tours: don't want a pyro to use gas which btw helps you get done with the wave alot quicker.
I've had a similar take for awhile now That the issue wasn't the Gas Passer being OP, but simply the fact that it was on Pyro, and Pyro was the one with this OP strategy Basically, the 'problem' is as it always will be...Pyro just existing
Fact: My old bad “friends” told my I am a little baby for using the phlog and gas passer in an mvm lobby we queued together for. In fact they told me the only way to win was to use airblast to push the bomb carrier into a pit to reset the bomb. Now I’m not very good at the game, but with an entire team of pyros, heavy, demoknight, engineer, medic, the demoknight said he wanted to be on the frontline and that’s fine he had fun. But you can notice I was the only person capable of killing medics. I would often tell others “DO NOT SHOOT THE MEDICS” and then come in to kill them all for them. I also had to explain to my “friend” that crouching and looking up at the tank does double damage, because the tank went halfway across the map barely damaged. People were thinking I was lying and I was being voted off, MY OWN “FRIEND” VOTED AGAINST ME. I still got to stay and finish because the medic and engineer knew better. Very quickly I left the Discord vc and ungrouped that friend, and put him on blast at the end of that match and later in chats. Btw this was a fucking boot-camp not even an actual tour why do people care literally at all? Oh yeah, I put him on blast not for anything gameplay wise, I was pissed that someone who wants to spend time with me and wants to agree with me actively tried to remove me from the game to spend less time with me. Literally what was he trying to accomplish? I would’ve still been in the discord vc, awkwardly sitting there shouting at him for being the worst friend ever. It really makes me wonder why he would party up at all if he really didn’t care. Yes I unfriended his ass I said he’s an old bad friend.
This has always been how I've felt on this subject. I was always playing pyro since I started playing the gamemode, so suddenly getting f#cking kicked just because I was suddenly more viable was the final straw that permanently made me stop playing MvM. I just had to accept I'd have more fun playing solo like it was Ultrakill or some other boomer shooter than EVER subject myself to another high tour player.
I physically groan anytime i see a high tour Scottish Resistance Demo in my team. Unlike most Pyros using the gas passer that get deleted for half the wave or dont have a clue when to use the passer (ergo, all the time) any high tour SR Demo basically guarantees that now every single Giant and Group will be killed as soon as their s drop. The one time i actually had a decent Gas Pyro we still got kills because the Gas only applies itself every x seconds i guess? Enough time for rockets and bullets to do something, haven't had that leeway with a SR Demo yet. And no, i dont give a fuck which one takes more skill or is harder to do, both just kill bots on-spawn At least the Passer has the decency to leave SOME gameplay for the others (Giants).
It used to be nice when I was worse at the game but now these days I actually kinda hate them, yea. Especially on Empire where you can literally afk a majority of it
I really don't care... The one thing I don't like about it though is when I'm the medic and I'm obligated to wait on the Scottish Demo hand and foot. I mean, it's kind of a fun coordination, but it can feel like a bit of a drag sometimes.
That last part could be part of the problem. There are quite a few meta slaves in MvM, and I personally have seen people spam a bind for a quad soldier team being the meta for Botbash and harassing people who didn’t switch to that team comp.
@TheDoc_K What difference does it make having sniper, demo or soldier killing large groups of ads you cant make what I said more simple trying to trivialize it, its that simple for a reason
i have seen people on warframe defense, rare as it may be, complain about taking too many kills on defense... which is a mode about clearing waves as fast as possible, some people are just objectively stupid when it comes to playing games if any game has multiplayer and either competition, or a number attached to actions, some one will always complain that you are having fun wrong and that you need to have fun their way
I remember me and some random people on AN EXPERT MISSION BY THE WAY used gunslinger engi on the last wave, this is proof that the mvm community is not lost to tacobots and hightours
@@whitefang1657 STANDING HERE, I REALISE YOU ARE JUST LIKE ME, TRYING TO MAKE HISTORY BUT WHO'S TO JUDGE, THE RIGHT FROM WRONG WHEN OUR GUARD IS DOWN, I THINK WE'LL BOTH AGREE THAT VIOLENCE BREEDS VIOLENCE BUT IN THE END, IT HAS TO BE THIS WAY
I agree, gas passer is antifun. It clearly needs more explosion causes, explosions are fun, more explosions is more fun, I'm talking explode on ignite, explosions cause ignites, ignites cause explosions on target's death, etc. >:)
i think we should switch it from explode on ignite to MASSIVE FUCKING EXPLOSION KABOOM, and whenever you throw it its just a nuclear bomb. it'll have instant recharge to maximize explosion amounts.
Another point against the "Idle rock sniper require skill" : You're playing against BOTS. They will not dodge. They will not hide. They will not try to juke. You can almost see their pathfinding. The only thing you need is a tiny bit of foresight, as much as you would need to anticipate the projectile arc of the gas passer.
Nobody actually thinks that idle rock sniper is skillful Explode on Ignite is still a completely unbalanced upgrade. Just because there are already extremely unbalanced strats in the gamemode for years doesn't mean the newest one is somehow permissible.
You forgot something. Bots won't dodge, hide, try to juke your shoots or coordinate a counter strike, and for Idle Rock Sniper, THEY DON'T EVEN SHOOT AT HIM.
@@luigifan4585 'permissible' bro it's fucking 2cities on official valve servers, you're not a moderator, you're another gambling addict farming for aussies and wasting money. don't like gas? requeue
I genuinely like the idea of making Pyro remotely viable towards keeping him on the field instead of being a quickswap tank buster. However, the execution is horrendous. Gas Passer's upgrade being $400 is an actual crime. A sniper can trade in their skill for having to pay 50 extra dollars. In the end, they achieve the same purpose of medic killing while also having the ability to bust tanks and giants effectively. A lot of Demo's skill level comes form anticipating future robot waves, and setting traps accordingly. However, you can just change from this proactive playstyle to a much less enticing reactive playstyle using the gas passer pyro. Whatever Valve thought of with this upgrade is insanely horrid. In terms of the Mann Up community, they should just look at the reality: Your medics are using ubersaws to spam the everliving hell out of ubers, your soldiers have carpal tunnel from a dumpster rocket, and your snipers and demos are still eliminating entire missions with map geometry. To ban people from one OP strategy while allowing others is just hypocritical at best.
not only that but, is demo REALLY more skilled to play? 90% of the time he's just stickyspamming for groups or giants. when you do even see him swapping to primary when he's just worse soldier in that regard?
You know. As much as I love community MvM missions.... There is ONE THING that always irked me.... Gas Passer being outright banned. (Or even worse, the server telling you something like "you don't need that shit".) A friend of mine liked using the thing. (I personally play Medic, or Heavy when I play MvM.) And it just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
@@MetaL556They remove Explode on Ingnite to actually make Pyro use their brain instead of relying on it to cheese every single wave and actually do something instead of throwing gas, running in and dying instantly. There is much more to MvM Pyro than simply using the Gas Passer. I see way too many low experience players join a game, pick Pyro and get upset when they realize that Explode on Ignite is disabled and are hit with a reality check that they have to actually _play_ the game in order to finish these missions. Imagine creating a custom MvM mission only for it to be completely trivialized just because a Pyro spends 400 credits on one upgrade. No one wants to deal with incompetence. Hell, even in the recent Moonlight MvM event Magnetic Mayhem, a lot of the custom missions have _less_ starting money just to nerf Sniper due to how oppressive he can be.
@@Nyxael5845 so pretty much what you're saying that this is ok on sniper but not with pyro even though sniper can do the same thing but almost 200% faster and better
I think, at least in Mann Up, the main problem of the Gas Passer is that it lures new players to play the Pyro. Pyro in early wave is a glass cannon which can die upon a sneeze, and he has an airblast- the thing that has arguably the highest troll potential. And also, Gas Passer is a single time use weapon with a cooldown. So an incompetent Pyro often goes like this. Dies constantly, airblast spam without knowing what they're doing, and use up the Gas too early and left empty-handed when the team needs one. Not a teammate you would want to see on your team. That's why I can somewhat agree on people saying "Playing with Gas Passer Pyro is annoying". Poorly designed weapon luring people into less-minded playstyle, a bad game design, I'd say. Though, I won't and never will agree on those who kick or even list those Gas Passer Pyros. Annoying? Agree. Want it to be redesigned? Fair. Freaking Gatekeeping them from using the Gas...? You're a schizo.
Imagine being a powerful robot army, made to mimic the best mercenaries money can buy and then losing to a pyromaniac lunatic with a jerry can full of gasoline
I think there is some even stupider bias here: I think the mvm high tour bros don't even want to associate with pyros in general, because of the negative stigma surrounding the class itself, like they see a pyro and instantly think it's either 3 hour andy or the gibusvision enjoyer, and that it would rub off bad on them or something. Everything is possible in high tour asylum
people play mann up because it's easy and you get to *gamble* the valve missions have been solved since 2014 and they are boring slogfests once a high tour gets on. if you want fun, go for boot camp
@@SamuelTrademarked that's the issue Explode on Ignite has been a net negative for the game mode as a whole and should have never been conceived. A bunch of the popular MvM community groups have basically banned it from being bought on the servers they run so they don't have to consider that buggy mess of an upgrade into mission design
all you need to do is look at how people act when they play any kind of competitive game after br games became popular damn near everyone will google "[game name] meta build" and then play the exact same way every single match because that is what their google search told them to do... that is literally the pinnacle of making games not fun, all they want is to win, they dont care about the actual game play, just the end result
Very fantastically-said, Weezy. And I agree - people need to leave their ego at the door and consider that gas passer pyros are not out to steal teammates' kills, but deal with problems like Uber Medics.
Might be biased because I only play Boot Camp but god I just wish all Pyros who used Gas actually saved it for when it was necessary. I've had so many games in Advanced with a newer Pyro using Gas who just spams it constantly and then when we need it for Uber Medics they don't have it (or they just rush in and pop the Medics anyway for some reason instead of using the Gas). There are a fair amount of Pyros who know what they're doing in Boot Camp and I'll use it myself if I'm playing Pyro but gah it just annoys me when people don't know to save it or don't listen if someone tells them to save it for the Uber Medics
Tbh one great way to shut down the “PvE balance doesn’t matter” argument is to simply bring up halo 2 legendary compared to its predecessor and successor
This, this right here. And that's even before Skulls, too. Halo 3 Legendary with Thunderstorm and Tough Luck? Extremely tough to your average player, but manageable with practice. Halo 2 Legendary with That's Just Wrong, Angry and the cloaking Skull? Hope you like 1 second game overs from things you can't see and also can't miss!
@@TusksTheAxew even without skulls you would have to memorize the composition, size, loadout, and spawn location of every squad of grunts, jackals, and pair of elites. Don’t even get me started on the absolute fucking hell hole that is the entirety of outskirts and the start of gravemind, “brutes! The faster you kill those brutes the better.” Is still seared in to my memory.
@@rainbowflameproductions7121 Gravemind in particular...man...I get why from a story standpoint they had to plop you in the middle of the action ill-equipped, but for the sake of Legendary, it really wouldn't have hurt to put you behind cover first. Maybe have Chief run behind something after he spooks the Grunt, add more cover. Good point though. I'd prefer any other Halo Legendary with some Skulls over base Halo 2's Legendary any day of the week. As much as i love it, dear god did it need more time in the oven.
Whenever I hear about the "Problems" that the gas passer has in terms of balance, I just remember the PAYDAY 2 days of people throwing temper tantrums over the Grimm 12G Shotgun. I cannot understand and will never understand the problem behind making the game easier, especially when it comes to valuable loot. So long as you're not actively cheating or exploiting the game that isn't intended, just use what you want. And if you don't like it, just leave and find a new lobby or queue up with friends.
Except there's nothing to actually gain monetarily in PAYDAY 2. Those complaints were from people people who just didn't want a stupidly powerful option existing that didn't take more effort to get value out of.
I remember way way back in the day getting kicked as sniper in MvM maps because it wasn't meta. ( This includes bigrock before the community found out about how powerful sniper is on that map). In my own opinion it's not just people disliking the gaspasser for an actual reason. It's people disliking the gaspasser because hightours or the meta dictates that the gaspasser is bad, so they blindly follow it
Mvm players: what are you doing take off the gas passer or you’re getting kicked! Also mvm players: why aren’t you using the gas passer? Start using it or you’re kicked!
just to note the same high tours telling you to switch off of it, wont also be the same ones telling you to use it.. the analogy does work for other busted strategies though.
@@papiderpyTo be fair, there are a couple of people in the comments who say that they get upset when someone doesn’t use the Gas, including one with a lot of upvotes. It’s mainly from what I assume people with lower tour counts.
The thing people forget is that the Gas Passer does very little against giants or tanks, whereas Invisible Bigrock Sniper and Scottish Resistance flat-out delete giants as well as crowds of robots.
The main problem with High Tour MVM is that they turned it into another branch of competitive TF2, which is completely community driven and also has a list of banned weapons depending on the mode. They can't just enjoy MVM as a PvE and have to drag their comp egos into it. The issue of certain players trying to add PvP elements to a PvE game isn't just related to TF2 either; BFB is entirely PvE but some guys wanted a versus mode similar to L4D, in a game that was not built for that. No wonder it dropped off not long after it started. Same with KF2. Granted, the versus mode is still somewhat popular (particularly on console), but the balance is a mess because you get to take max perks into a game with NORMAL difficulty; meaning you as zeds do less damage than you ought to be doing against a max perk playing on suicidal or HOE while the survivors can just run you over until someone gets the Patriarch.
as someone once said, "players will optimize the fun out of the game" and this might apply to MvM tenfold and oddly enough this is a quote from the dev of SIMCITY (the reboot one)
Yeah after watching this, I realized that the only real problem with the Gas Passer is that it steals kills from other players who may need it. Airstrike, Eyelander, Bazaar Bargain, Health on Kill, Crits on kill, Heatmaker Focus, and Frontier Justice
(insert that clip of Doug Walker on his computer) high tours snipers when the Gas Passer pyro steals their kills (they still have the highest kill count by a order of 10)
Thanks again for another video on MvM Weezy, and it’s thanks to your tier list and precious Gas Passer video had me try out Pyro with it when someone took my main in MvM, really help out the points on how to clutch and how to break up a squad of medic bots and FoS Heavy bots
The rules of balance are simple: the community decides which classes are "high skill" and which are "low skill", and demands that "high skill" classes be buffed while "low skill" classes are nerfed. Pyro, a "low skill" class, cannot be good. That is bad balance. Good balance is when Medic spawns with 69% uber. This is basic biology. Bad balance is when Heavy kills me, good balance is when Scout kills me. Sniper is balanced because I spent 300 hours learning how to click.
Obviously it's not true for everyone, but i talked to a person with a crazy high tour count once after he ruined a game over a gas passer pyro. I asked him why he would go so far over something so pointless, and he admitted to me that harrassing new players over something trivial is the only thing he finds fun about MVM. He said that he goes out of his way to complain about anything a new player does, so that he can spend over an hour ruining the game for them
"The got the tanks, they got the planes, they got the ships, and they got the chopa's" but don't forget the biggest one of all, they got the military data leaks 😂
I'll say roughly the same thing as last video: I have shy of 150 tours. The only time I've seen kicks for the gas passer has been after a failed round why the pyro constantly misses his shots (two of which were my intoxicated fault). I don't have a major problem with that. What I don't have a count on is the number of high-tour players seeing a gas passer pyro and quietly dropping out. And I don't have a problem with that either. Different people play MvM for different reason. Personally, my favorite thing is teaching the concepts of the game to new players that are interested in learning. But so long as players aren't rushing to vote-kick, I have no problem with other players having their own selfish reasons for enjoying the game.
I had 1 person ever get mad at me for running the gas passer, the team really didint like him and promptly kicked him, they just said "as long as you're good with it and know your place, then you're cool in our books" phlog gas passer is a way of life, especially since the explosion can help put if other damage options are out or unavailable.
I can explain this one perfectly. Gas, along with similar strats, are OP. However, the other OP strats had counters to them. Good Map design (which gear grinder and other official maps lacked), good bot placement (Scottish can still maybe 1 shot giants, but they got a different giant elsewhere at the same time), unique bots that have vaccinators or Dragon's Fury Pyros (to name a few), and sniper spots that are good, but not OP like big rock. Gas Passer is one of the few weapons that completely ignores any resistances and has a lingering AOE, and can be spammed in the hands of a decent Pyro, thus, it's harder to balance. When Titanium Tank tour from potato.tf released, he had some very hard missions, but gas trivialized them due to these unique properties, so gas upgrade is disabled as a result.
@TheDoc_K eh doesnt make the game easier if sniper sucks aiming, doesnt know how to upgrade or mission/map isn't sniper friendly. Same as scottish res sometimes. But even then, i actually don't play with scottish resistance demos that spam crits. I rather play with gas pyros bc most of them suck anywayd and still have fun unlike with scottish demos with medic and 2way.
1000+ tours MVM tryhards when they don't get 999999 kills on their australium Rocket Launcher because there's a gas passer pyro on their team ( It's unfair)
Had a game with a high tour. around 2000 tours. He was respectable and gave advice. as soon someone joined as a pyro he warned if he saw the gass passer he would leave. The pyro did use it at wave 4/6, But he was good enough too finish the round before leaving. I am so confused with that mentality.
I think I’ve played with him before, his name is a mash of letters and symbols like C@*** if I remember correctly . He always leaves when there’s a gas pyro and uses a bind that says “no f@g gas” before dipping.
@@MeltyManMelts Not the same person. The person I had was respectful and everything. Just said if I see a single gas passer I will leave. he finished the wacve then left. not in the middle of it or something similar
As a high-tour that doesn't mind the Gas Passer, my perspective is that low-tour Pyros are some of the most inept clowns in MvM, but at least with the Gas Passer they can manage to be a useful idiot.
Reminds me of how nice the people I matched with on tour were, I got an Australium black box on my second tour and stopped buying tickets to play soon after, so I wasn't exposed to many high tour players and even then if they asked me to do something they'd give me valid reasoning as to why.
There's one thing that was consistent back when I was playing MvM: whenever I was playing something off-meta (like Spy or pre-GP Pyro), I was never, EVER told to switch class by a high tour. It was always a player with less than 20 tours that told me to switch class, because "we need a medic". A lot of people point at the high tours and, even if true that there was a huge chunk of toxicity on their part, more often than not meta enforcing was done by toxic low tours that couldn't even open their mind to the idea that the Two Cities Meta was not the sole way of playing the game. I feel like pointing at high tours or even the tacos here is just neglecting the bigger part of the community that is just monkeying the Two Cities meta without knowing what actually works. I mean, the main reason the MvM group I was part of did all class runs (including all spies in all Expert and Wave 666) did those was to show people that class composition doesn't matter as much as, well, being good at the freaking game. That it's not because you have one bad player that you lost a wave: it's also a team effort to lose. If you are in a bad team, you are part of it. The whole Godrock and SR Demo part? I agree 200%. I remember back then, a lot of people were pointing out at the hypocrisy when talking about the tacos, with Sniper/Demo being one of them, and even today I still agree to this. I also remember someone actually fixing the Godrock by putting a nav there and it just removed Sniper's invisibility. It's just a ridiculous easy fix for something that has always been extremely problematic. I wouldn't be surprised if most high tour groups would actually welcome a fix to the Godrock. Which is imo another reason the hate is extremely focused on the Gas Passer. I feel like it's the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of how Valve treated the gamemode as a whole. Before that, we got things like infinite refunds (exploit turned feature), bugged-out server ban on kick, lack of balance updates and Medic being a forced pick to name a few issues - problems that are still present today. The Gas Passer was just another slap to anyone that cared about the gamemode. The problem of course is that everyone is just laser-focused on that last straw and people are ignoring all the other issues.
Out of all the gas passer videos I've seen, only ONE was from the perspective of a high tour who encouraged it. The whole time he asked the pyro (who was on tour 7 of Two Cities) if he knew how to use it. The pyro said it's his first time being allowed to use it. Guess what? The high tour told him everything that was good for, and helped with the build, giving him tips and positive feedback. The video is no longer up because TacoBot started a hate campaign in the comments, because how dare a 'respectable high tour confide such filth'
I think that maybe these people ought to be a little quieter about this, because if Valve were to wake from it's eternal slumber and take a look at the state of MvM, which do you think they would view as a problem? The working as intended Gas Passers explode on ignite? Or the map cheesing sniper that found a spot where he can't be targeted?
First of all, Valve knew the mistake about it recharging on the explode, so that got fixed & tweaked numbers. Second, there was a Potato MVM Visit to Valve Q&A, and they asked Valve, Eric Smith, why it was the case. Valve responded that in order to have a, "change," they would need to make a detailed report on why it is, "overpowered," and make a compelling case as to why it should be changed. In the end : the Potato MVM Document mentions that Valve doesn't work on promising nor guaranteeing changes to be made, and it would be, "Better," to not change things at all anymore with TF2. Basically, Valve doesn't see it as a problem worth fixing just because a group of players is salty about it. Why should a group of salty players have more weight over what seems to be a majority of players that is okay with Valve's MVM? Especially from a group that has done nothing but shown contempt towards their targets + bystanders with griefing, harassment, and exploitation just to get their way. And yet, the same salty group of players that STILL purchase tickets to consume them in Mann-up. Just because people are passionate that much about it, doesn't mean they should have the game in their vision. Today, Valve 100% knows what goes on in MVM given the many fixes against griefing, with the only thing left is to fix the Temporary Soft-Ban so it can actually work.
Every game I play I use the gas passer and it’s very op and yk kills robot fast, as of now no one complained about it. I don’t understand why people complain about it. It’s just a good item to use to speed up waves
One time I got into a Bigrock game and went medic and my team told me to switch off because you only need a sniper and engineer for that map and didnt realize that if you only need those two then it shouldn't matter who I play as so I switched back next round but I got votekicked for doing so Zero logic in that lobby
I won't pretend to be a balance guru, or a paladin that wants to somehow pacify all sides of the argument. I just have fun using the Gas Passer in MvM, and I'll keep using it whenever I feel like watching a ton of robots blow up.
the literal only problem i have with the gas passer is it makes some people play pyro in a suicidal way, they get one gas off at a blob, die trying to refill their tank, contribute little to the next robots or distract the medic to revive them instead of keeping the heavy or other classes healed up which often can break formations and let robots push, the weapon itself is fine to me as its not too different from other overpowered strategies, i just wish people would play it a little smarter and cut down their death ratios
I breathe a sigh of relief whenever Weezy uploads a new video, because with all the shit I go through in life, it could always be worse, I could be an MvM player
Honestly I’m fine with these strats, even the gas passer, things like the SR and heat maker take time to learn and get good at, while the gas passer can accomplish the same thing, while being more accommodating to lower tour players, so they don’t have to rely on high tour players just to play the game
Gas Passer enjoyer here; I've been doxxed and DDoS'd multiple times for using it, and most of them are high tour goobers who are so high on their fragile ego that they're scared of me doing more damage than them. I use it for the purpose of, A) making the tour go faster, and B) being a backup horde or med killer in case someone perishes. That's it (aside from a problematic side-effect that slides me dopamine every time my kill sounds go off and deafen me). And I'll continue to use it for as long as I live, because I like pyro and his versatility. Problem is now, I've dealt with so many self-righteous assholes that I have to panickingly ask every server I join if I'm okay to use the gas passer. If someone doesn't like it, I switch servers until someone is, because I'm tired of being denied playing the game I love. If you don't like the gas passer and are about to go off on someone because they're using it, please be nice about it. And that even goes for things outside of TF2. It's tiring to have to deal with negativity from others, and even yourself sometimes. Being nice is nice, please just try it for the sake of others.
My first full tour I said "This is my first time" and one of the guys said "No surprise there" because I didn't prioritize overheal amount over blast shield.
Honestly I think another reason players hate it is because it's a weapon on Pyro, and Pyro is always hated no matter what they do. If any other class had the GP than no one would be complaining.
I've said it before and I will say it again: I would rather fight and die in the dirt and gravel alongside semi-competent low-tours than be carried through a total fucking snoozefest by some High-Tour Harry who kills two-thirds of the robots before I can even rev up. It's just not that fun. The Gas Passer, even at its peak, is not capable of the sheer destruction that the Scottish Resistance or the Heatmaker are. There's just no universe where it is. I'd genuinely be more okay with kicking a Demo who's trivializing the entire mission than a Pyro who occasionally pops a crowd of robots with the Gas Passer. I wouldn't do it, but I'd be less upset at the prospect of it.
As a 740+ Two Cities tour player, I can tell you that I have always cared about my fun. What does that mean? I go gas passer pyro, I go liberty launcher solly, quick fix medic, and many more dumb builds because I find it fun and challenging A friend showed me a site, not tacobot, about reviewing MvM players. I have like 8 complaints about me. "Gas passer pyro" "Switched from scout to sniper" "Dance taunted mid wave" When you play as much as I have you can relax and have fun with lots of things. When it comes to gas passer I'll say this: I personally try to limit it when I play. I kill the medics and let the team kill the small dudes. Team getting overwhelmed by a push? Try gas to help out. Demo wants to do a crit kill on incoming bots? Let him have it. Yeah I can and could spam it but I know I'm not the only player on the team. I'm here cuz I want to have fun. I don't want to ruin other people's fun Even as a high tour I still got kicked by other high tours for being "toxic". So stay safe out there
The thing that will annoyed about community mvm is that the gas passer is banned even in expert missions, where i don't think it would be that broken especially since some experts mission go overboard with the robots. as in you failing a wave for 5 times in row, you get that upgrade for that wave you are struggling. Also i do think gas passer does require some skill sunch as postioning and throwing at the right time.
It isn't about late gane balancing, it's early game balancing. Things that are meant to be a challenge because of little to no credits become nonexistent and turns into a mission balance nightmare due to the massive power spike 400$ gets you through explode on Ignite compared to any other single upgrade purchase by itself only.
![[TF2] Dealing With Tanks in MvM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AVm9TvHwmPM/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Dealing With Tanks in MvM](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Mvm's Most HATED Weapon](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JNUCMB174XA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Cheating in MvM - The Case Continues](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VsTYx9GCA8E/mqdefault.jpg)
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no
I'm good thanks
nah
I used to play War Thunder, and i can say it is NOT worth it
Also wave 666 video when
Here's a bad idea, buff it. You heard me add a damage buff to it that you can do so it increases even more than normal, why? High tours would get used to it and begin hating the buff so that when you remove the buff they won't really hate the normal gas no more since its technically now debuffed(it's now back to its og form) or if you want to be petty, lower the amount of times you can upgrade it's recharge speed
You know something is terribly wrong when some people actively endorse cheaters and bots in MvM, but have a mental breakdown when someone equips the Gas Passer.
I did not knew that the same problem that plague TF2's PvP into unplayability is endorsed in PvE.
How someone that go so morally low dare having such high expectation on what weapon someone can and can't use while using such draconian tactics to make sure no one use a specific weapon. I still believe that the gas passer would be better for both PvP and PvE if it had a cooldown like the jarate, mad milk and flying guillotine instead of a charge on damage like soldier's backpacks.
I remember when I decided to play MvM with my friend. I got kicked cuz I used a Gas. 4 snipers.... 4 snipers, standing in the same place who called me a cheater. And they said its skill issue to play as a sniper in MvM. I wonder 🤔
@@Game-vi2odpretty sure they're bot with heatmaker
When people turned PvE into a competitive sport is when it stops being fun.
@@fighter5583 l4d2 community
High Tour MvM players will allow a sniper bot to basically steamroll the mission while they dig in their own belly button for lint.
Whatever they have to say about balance is basically moot.
Still, it's worth hearing what they have to say, if only to keep a finger on the pulse of the whiners and man children.
@@GeneralSpritz good choice of words, "hearing" but not "listening" lmao
to what purpose does one listen if not to learn, and what is there to learn from a hypocrite?
@@JohnJohn-r4l What NOT to say or do or think.
no they won't! that takes no skill. they're stealing their kills.
The two arguments of MvMers are:
"Why aren't you killing the bots fast enough!? Use the meta efficient strategy or banned! We need to clear the mission as fast as possible so I can get a quarter-pull on the slot machine lever!"
"Ok, I'll use the Gas Passer to clear bots as fast and efficient as possible."
"Nooooo! That makes the game too easy in the wrong way and clears the mission too fast! You need to play a less efficient class so the mission takes longer!"
Or,
"Pyro shouldn't be able to make this totally meaningless number that has no effect on gameplay or rewards go higher than MY totally meaningless number that has no effect on gameplay or rewards! That's not fair!"
The first argument is being a hypocrite, the second is being... uh... I'll let you decide.
@@shawnlam3109its just kind of being a jerk
@@panderater2650No,It's just being a loser,plain and simple
Even a looser has more braincells than those guys@@liamelgamer2858
@@shawnlam3109 second is being an ego thirsty jacka$$
- Explode on ignite
- Exploding headshots
They're the same picture
Some high tour:
NUUU BUT SNIPER TAKES SKILL MY FEELINGS UHH…F*#k YOUUUUU
@@PybroLuv3syuAny time I see a cheating sniper, I just report that account. The basic fact they have cheats essentially means they've definitely used those cheats elsewhere besides MVM.
@@fighter5583 *"I don't support your lame shit, but get me out of this game so I can get my stuff"*
nah bro you gotta understand, the spammable long range option I can do every second isn't as lame as the worse low range option that happens every 30 seconds.
@@fighter5583i dont think thats true. just because people can use a tool for another purpose, it doesnt mean that they will do that. if you think that, you would have to ban irl knives for being the same problem
>be me
>playing Gear Grinder with Randoms
>decides to use Gas Passer
>Teammate gets mad at me for using Gas Passer
>Check Scoreboard
>150+ tour Sniper using Heatmaker
I think even if he wasn't a high tour, the annoyance would be from them not getting enough charges for the heat maker. I get mad at both when I wanna demoknight but can't collect heads cause my targets get deleted
@@carolthepyro899to be fair your first mistake is playing demoknight...
@Timeward76 you underestimate my power. But demoknight aside. Theres also me play gun scout and other unpopular mvm methods and still not getting anything to shoot at. On a side note, I find gas to be uninteresting and it's very much meta imo. I use detonator or use the gas without the upgrade to use my axtinguisher on unaware bots.
@@carolthepyro899 honestly the way to have fun with the gas is to use it just for medic killing. Throw it when medics drop then have fun with the backburner til more come. That and bursts of damage against giants, really. You get your big bangs of kill sounds and contribute to the team without annoying them too much.
@Timeward76 you do you. I personally find it bland, and if my intent was on medic dropping in mass or big bursts od damage, I'd play sticky demo (tho I prefer going for pipe demo. Infinitely more interesting).
another thing is that they're LITERALLY CHEATING with BOTS so they can kill HORDES of robots through the WHOLE TOUR and say it's a strategy that requires skill, but when someone uses a weapon that kills like 7 bots each 3 seconds at best it becomes absolutely unfair and unbalanced.
i genuinely think these people have some heavy mental problems, and it isn't even a joke.
Heavy outsmart brain 🇷🇺🪆🤔❓
TF2 Players all have mental illness. Its just some have it way worse than others. In this case, MVM players have such high levels of brainrot to play what amounts to be a slightly altered tf2 but get mad when someone has a slightly easier strategy
@@ravelnavarro9625 HEAVY TF2 REFERENCE?????????
from what ive heard, i dont usually hear cheaters using bots say it' a strategy. they do it bc they just want mvm loot
"I used the bots to destroy the bots"
As a wise man once said
Getting mad at a weapon that makes waves go by much faster is like getting mad at empty traffic
If only said wise man can comment on this video
I’m gonna start using that!
I get the sentiment, but nobody enjoys sitting through traffic.
Some people actually enjoy the gameplay of MvM, which the Gas Passer completely trivializes into non-existentence for a good portion of the team
@@luigifan4585then they can go find a new game themselves I say.
@@danielfazylov6960hello there
"Heavy playing at ball slapping distance" is not a phrase I expected to hear today
Big Joey playing at Nut Slapping distance
GET BEHIND ME, DOKTOR 😈
@@PowerGem3000 CHARGE ME! 🥵
He definitely has that fawful's minion DNA
@@fantastikboom1094 AH OUH AUH OH OHHH OHHH
So to add to the “Pyro didn’t earn this” theory, I think the other thing that gives it credence is that Pyro is overall not a respected class. Besides being a furry, Pyro players are also stereotyped as having monkey brains because they believe the flamethrower takes no effort to wave around and get kills. Giving a “kill small robots instantly” upgrade on a class that is already disrespected was only going to escalate the hate.
it's not like other classes have a 'kill robots instantly' strategy or anything...
>demoman sticky spam w/ medic
>rocket specialist damage soldier
>explosive headshot sniper
>shared canteen crit medic on heal target
@@woobgamer5210 Yeah but:
- Demo and Soldier are classes for a highly skilled and competitive players (read: they are generally the meta choice for power classes)
- Sniper is OP only in skilled hands (read: in hands that can point and click)
- Medic is the healer, criticizing the healer is a dick move (read: his BS strat is ok because it lets me do all the killings as the pocketed Demo/Soldier)
So naturally these strats get exempted.
@@wombat4191You are heavily overrating how much skill Soldier and Demo take in MvM.
@@Duothimir You are heavily overrating how serious my comment is.
@@wombat4191 ok nerd
1:50 The "some reason" is because the Gas Passer is a Pyro weapon, and there is a small, bizarre, but vocal contingent of the TF2 community that hates Pyro simply for existing.
That's it, that's all there is to this. Gas Passer is a quick way to wipe out tons of robots, sure, but other classes can easily do the same - the only difference is that Gas Passer is *Pyro's* way, and some people will take any opportunity to try to belittle Pyro.
Yeah, if it was on ANY OTHER CLASS no one would care
NGL, I'm one of those people who hates pyro, but like... I hate fighting him. MvM is a fight against bots. Who cares, as long as game will be easier and shorter, go ahead, spam gas passer as much as you can. I'll hate you if you won't use it.
if it was on the spy, it would be "SPY IS SAVED! SPY IS GOOD IN MVM" and-
you know what? A sapper replacement to the gas passer would be cool. a thermite sapper?
has not changed since before hats and weapons beside stock were a thing. The hate only fuels the fire for pyro mains everywhere. With all the :3 faces for half team crackburner or uber-phlog pushes, gotta share the love~!❤🔥
I honestly disagree, I’m one of the people of absolutely despise pyro but that’s only if it’s w+m1, if that pyro starts air blasting or using his flare gun I’m not gonna be complaining anymore. And even if there are people who are like that, it would only be like 5 mentally insane people
The scottish resistence is just a gas passer with extra button clicks
Edit: yes I know that it's a very reductive statement.
But if you want an actual argument here goes:
If you're going to advocate against the gas passer, advocate against other overpowered strategies too.
Advocate against the big rock idle sniper
Advocate against the Scottish Resistance+Medic crit spamming combo
Be consisent
SR is better for single target iirc while gas is for crowd control
dude that is absolutely true
@@regalblade8171 you got a point there I'm ngl
But the SR can be used for crowds too (uber medics being a prim example)
@@gaminginthelincolnyears yeah, but both are absolutely broken aoe nukes, 1 is just easier to use while the other makes giants start with less health
I thought you died
Ah yes, all that skill needed to *checks notes* put stickies down in front of robots that are on a set path.
demo and pyro handshake on being braindead to play
one just sticky spams in all modes, the other... is actually harder to play in mvm due to always having to be close to the things that can shred you, its just braindead in pvp...
@@woobgamer5210And on top of that, Soldier is more braindead and easy than both classes combined, having more effectiveness at all ranges, with a higher health pool.
Takes skill to learn the path though.
@@appliedatoms7066 nice cope
That's like saying it takes skill to twist a door handle
@@appliedatoms7066 My guy, before every round begins there are large, glowing, directional arrows that float above the ground and show what path the robots carrying the bomb take.
Sniper can do the same shit with an added slow every .6 seconds.
Even a mediocre sniper who only hits 1/5 headshots will be essentially throwing a gas passer every 3 seconds. If there's a giant, that number will increase dramatically if they're using the heatmaker.
Also MvM pyro has a rep of dying for a reason outside the hate, aggro control is a non-trivial task that requires team coordination, which isn't gonna happen in a random Mann Up lobby, and when it goes wrong pyro is first to die for it because he has to be in close range to do any damage at all and he's high up on the list of default aggro priority. One wrong peek on early waves and you're paste.
my aim is ass but you bet yo ass i be melting everything around a (non-scout) giant, including the giant itself
I relate to this, im bad at playing sniper but in mvm, even with a 2nd grade like the bazaar bargain you carry the game more than the rest of your team and they're telling me that a fcking fart can is just more overpowered than this ????
Yeah-
They're just degenerate gambling addicts who prioritize efficiency first
Explosive headshot is also a stupidly powerful upgrade, yes.
There just didn't need to be another stupidly powerful upgrade that takes even less effort to get value out of in the gamemode
@@luigifan4585 if you don't like gas passer you shouldn't like hitman's heatmaker sniper, scotres demo, conch beggar's soldier, phlog pyro on tanks, heavy vs giants, the existence of projectile shield, crit medic, pretty much everything that's meta is overpowered as shit.
also, the upgrade exists, so what are you even trying to say?
@SamuelTrademarked all of those besides projectile shield and heavy's close range damage require a large amounts of credits dumped into them in order to make them overpowered
A big issue in Explode on Ignite is the massive power spike given the amount of credits needed to buy it for only 400
And I also stopped playing Mann Up and just do community made missions instead, which actually try and balance stuff and make the wave design interesting and enjoyable
Inbefore the wave of hightours exploding over this "awful" take. (its a good take)
Exploding on ignite lol
@@parkerdevos7980 apparently that upgrade applies to the fanbase as well
edit: fixed typo
@@Underworlder5Pfft, good one
@@parkerdevos7980In their efforts to destroy the Gas Passer, they themselves became the Gas Passer
@@parkerdevos7980ok but can ya stay away from the enemy snipers? i wanna trolldiee
High Tour is basically another word for Loser that has too many spare time at this point.
And money.
@@LoraLoibuThey’re probably in debt.
@@LoraLoibu They're the worst form of gambling addicts. They got no money left because of their addiction.
Let's go Gambling!
@@AACMc Let's go in debt!
There's an alarmingly large demographic of the playerbase that thinks aimbotting is fine in MVM, but the gas passer - a part of the game by default which you don't have to actively download external software in order to use - isn't.
Don't forget it's free. Cheat software you typically have to pay for.
GDS: Gas Derangement Syndrome
When I asked someone what else would be another good secondary weapon I could use, they recommended the mann melter and it became pretty clear that they've never played mvm pyro before
@@vinnyandlin8510Definitely had an impression back when I played that Pyro in general was just suboptimal. Years of watching Weezy have erased that preconception, but I think among all the ego tripping reasons why the elitists went to war with the Gas Passer is an irrational desire to keep Pyro in the same pit of obscurity and uselessness as Spy. Though tame, your point about the people you dealt with clearly having never played Pyro supports this: they don’t play Pyro, and if everyone followed their meta, nobody else would either, the meta says Pyro is situational at best and garbage at worst.
Found several gas pyros on my tours, but it rarely impacted the game. We still get pushed back, we still get to do most of the job.
It's when we get high tour demos that the game becomes autoplay
The main reason I stopped playing Mann Up, running into one too many SR, high-horse jackasses
@@edvingjervaldsaeter3659i use the tide turner fight me
Yeah, high-tour Demos basically turn the game into a snorefest.
Players have always had a dislike of Pyro in every game mode, "W+M1" type mindset, but if the gas passer is doing the same shit as the others, it isn't an issue
Remember the airblast+reserve shooter combo? That was even more hated than w+m1
When you position bad and don't pay attention to a pyro and die to him (it's clearly a no skill character "W + M1 kys")
@@slippez3829 That combo was ridiculous before it got nerfed tho.
Man I miss old airblast :/
@@walkelftexasranger That, and it was mostly a problem in PVP
The gas passer is a life saver on higher difficulties so i dont complain if the 50 pocket medics powering the giant heavy or the giant scouts carrying the bomb instantly die. Pyro is basically perfect as a clean up role in MVM while the team can focus on destroying the tanks and stopping the bomb.
high tours: wants you to hurry up and press F4 in 2 sec so they can speed run though the tour to get loot at the end.
also high tours: don't want a pyro to use gas which btw helps you get done with the wave alot quicker.
I've had a similar take for awhile now
That the issue wasn't the Gas Passer being OP, but simply the fact that it was on Pyro, and Pyro was the one with this OP strategy
Basically, the 'problem' is as it always will be...Pyro just existing
Fact: My old bad “friends” told my I am a little baby for using the phlog and gas passer in an mvm lobby we queued together for. In fact they told me the only way to win was to use airblast to push the bomb carrier into a pit to reset the bomb. Now I’m not very good at the game, but with an entire team of pyros, heavy, demoknight, engineer, medic, the demoknight said he wanted to be on the frontline and that’s fine he had fun. But you can notice I was the only person capable of killing medics. I would often tell others “DO NOT SHOOT THE MEDICS” and then come in to kill them all for them. I also had to explain to my “friend” that crouching and looking up at the tank does double damage, because the tank went halfway across the map barely damaged.
People were thinking I was lying and I was being voted off, MY OWN “FRIEND” VOTED AGAINST ME. I still got to stay and finish because the medic and engineer knew better.
Very quickly I left the Discord vc and ungrouped that friend, and put him on blast at the end of that match and later in chats.
Btw this was a fucking boot-camp not even an actual tour why do people care literally at all?
Oh yeah, I put him on blast not for anything gameplay wise, I was pissed that someone who wants to spend time with me and wants to agree with me actively tried to remove me from the game to spend less time with me. Literally what was he trying to accomplish? I would’ve still been in the discord vc, awkwardly sitting there shouting at him for being the worst friend ever. It really makes me wonder why he would party up at all if he really didn’t care.
Yes I unfriended his ass I said he’s an old bad friend.
This has always been how I've felt on this subject. I was always playing pyro since I started playing the gamemode, so suddenly getting f#cking kicked just because I was suddenly more viable was the final straw that permanently made me stop playing MvM. I just had to accept I'd have more fun playing solo like it was Ultrakill or some other boomer shooter than EVER subject myself to another high tour player.
Btw free video idea: "What missions can you solo and with what classes?" I'd watch that!
I feel that.
Wish there would be a place, where 6 normal people could meet up and play mvm
Play bootcamp. No one cares there
Easy solution: find a team that’s willing to play with you and stick with that team.
Just go play on community MvM servers, there's like countless custom missions that beats being stuck with same dozen official ones for ages.
We all know 90% of the sponsor is going to mvm tickets 😅
Content*, I think it would be Gambl- I MEAN Content
GAMBLING GAMBLING KEEP GAMBLING DONT STOP STOPPING IS LOOSING
Welcome to GAMBLE FORTRESS 2
I get more mad having no gas passers in a low tour lobby just wasting time and prolonging the gambling process
You should try online gambling, its even more efficient!
I don't really give a shit about Australiums or Stranges anyway if I do play Mann Up mode. Just delete it and stick with stock
Go to a casino bro
And it is way more profitable@@kirgizikable
@@scissors2439 probably dont delete it, its free money to sell and its still out your inventory
I physically groan anytime i see a high tour Scottish Resistance Demo in my team.
Unlike most Pyros using the gas passer that get deleted for half the wave or dont have a clue when to use the passer (ergo, all the time) any high tour SR Demo basically guarantees that now every single Giant and Group will be killed as soon as their s drop.
The one time i actually had a decent Gas Pyro we still got kills because the Gas only applies itself every x seconds i guess? Enough time for rockets and bullets to do something, haven't had that leeway with a SR Demo yet.
And no, i dont give a fuck which one takes more skill or is harder to do, both just kill bots on-spawn
At least the Passer has the decency to leave SOME gameplay for the others (Giants).
It used to be nice when I was worse at the game but now these days I actually kinda hate them, yea. Especially on Empire where you can literally afk a majority of it
I really don't care... The one thing I don't like about it though is when I'm the medic and I'm obligated to wait on the Scottish Demo hand and foot. I mean, it's kind of a fun coordination, but it can feel like a bit of a drag sometimes.
Never understood why it was hated, all it did was make pyro more viable for mvm and actually switched up the meta a bit instead of the same old shit
That last part could be part of the problem. There are quite a few meta slaves in MvM, and I personally have seen people spam a bind for a quad soldier team being the meta for Botbash and harassing people who didn’t switch to that team comp.
Gas players are usually the people that tries to force everyone playing the "meta". Also, pyro was alr viable enough.
@@poidythewizard4509Me when I lie on the internet
@TheDoc_K What difference does it make having sniper, demo or soldier killing large groups of ads you cant make what I said more simple trying to trivialize it, its that simple for a reason
@TheDoc_K Thats what ive been saying, theres really no rationality to it
“He’s stealing kills” in a team game mode is always hilarious
i have seen people on warframe defense, rare as it may be, complain about taking too many kills on defense... which is a mode about clearing waves as fast as possible, some people are just objectively stupid when it comes to playing games
if any game has multiplayer and either competition, or a number attached to actions, some one will always complain that you are having fun wrong and that you need to have fun their way
I remember me and some random people on AN EXPERT MISSION BY THE WAY used gunslinger engi on the last wave, this is proof that the mvm community is not lost to tacobots and hightours
The other day I beat the last wave of Metro Malice with 5 medics and one heavy.
@@whitefang1657what is your team doing? Recreating meet the medic but with more medics?
DOCTORS, ARE YOU SURE THIS WILL WORK?! @@allanmattieunichola
@@redbasher636 hahaha, we have no idea!
@@whitefang1657 STANDING HERE, I REALISE
YOU ARE JUST LIKE ME, TRYING TO MAKE HISTORY
BUT WHO'S TO JUDGE, THE RIGHT FROM WRONG
WHEN OUR GUARD IS DOWN, I THINK WE'LL BOTH AGREE
THAT VIOLENCE BREEDS VIOLENCE
BUT IN THE END, IT HAS TO BE THIS WAY
I remember one time in mvm mann up i picked pyro
And i got asked "can you use gas passer?"
We need more people like this tbh
>pyro player
>furry profile picture
>as expected.jpg
(no hate btw)
@@getaround1276thats a protogen, you human
@@taureon_ both are correct
protogen is a type of furry
@@getaround1276 i don't really play pyro and when i do it's for the beloved airblast
@@taureon_ thats bold of you to asume hes a Human with that pfp(no offense!)
Their arguement is basically “I hate your broken strategy because it’s not MY broken strategy.”
I agree, gas passer is antifun.
It clearly needs more explosion causes, explosions are fun, more explosions is more fun, I'm talking explode on ignite, explosions cause ignites, ignites cause explosions on target's death, etc. >:)
Found your UA-cam account, Borderlands 2's Mr Torgue!
this is going to make michael bay a mann vs machine addict
i think we should switch it from explode on ignite to MASSIVE FUCKING EXPLOSION KABOOM, and whenever you throw it its just a nuclear bomb. it'll have instant recharge to maximize explosion amounts.
@@Rebirth._Demoman would be proud
"Cheers, mate!"
Extra points if it flings you into the sun every kill@@Rebirth._
Another point against the "Idle rock sniper require skill" :
You're playing against BOTS. They will not dodge. They will not hide. They will not try to juke. You can almost see their pathfinding. The only thing you need is a tiny bit of foresight, as much as you would need to anticipate the projectile arc of the gas passer.
Nobody actually thinks that idle rock sniper is skillful
Explode on Ignite is still a completely unbalanced upgrade. Just because there are already extremely unbalanced strats in the gamemode for years doesn't mean the newest one is somehow permissible.
You forgot something. Bots won't dodge, hide, try to juke your shoots or coordinate a counter strike, and for Idle Rock Sniper, THEY DON'T EVEN SHOOT AT HIM.
@@luigifan4585 'permissible' bro it's fucking 2cities on official valve servers, you're not a moderator, you're another gambling addict farming for aussies and wasting money. don't like gas? requeue
@@luigifan4585L gambler
@@luigifan4585 then why aren't all the other extremely unbalanced strats not met with as much vitriol
I genuinely like the idea of making Pyro remotely viable towards keeping him on the field instead of being a quickswap tank buster. However, the execution is horrendous. Gas Passer's upgrade being $400 is an actual crime. A sniper can trade in their skill for having to pay 50 extra dollars. In the end, they achieve the same purpose of medic killing while also having the ability to bust tanks and giants effectively. A lot of Demo's skill level comes form anticipating future robot waves, and setting traps accordingly. However, you can just change from this proactive playstyle to a much less enticing reactive playstyle using the gas passer pyro. Whatever Valve thought of with this upgrade is insanely horrid.
In terms of the Mann Up community, they should just look at the reality: Your medics are using ubersaws to spam the everliving hell out of ubers, your soldiers have carpal tunnel from a dumpster rocket, and your snipers and demos are still eliminating entire missions with map geometry. To ban people from one OP strategy while allowing others is just hypocritical at best.
not only that but, is demo REALLY more skilled to play?
90% of the time he's just stickyspamming for groups or giants. when you do even see him swapping to primary when he's just worse soldier in that regard?
You know. As much as I love community MvM missions.... There is ONE THING that always irked me.... Gas Passer being outright banned. (Or even worse, the server telling you something like "you don't need that shit".)
A friend of mine liked using the thing. (I personally play Medic, or Heavy when I play MvM.) And it just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
@@MetaL556They remove Explode on Ingnite to actually make Pyro use their brain instead of relying on it to cheese every single wave and actually do something instead of throwing gas, running in and dying instantly. There is much more to MvM Pyro than simply using the Gas Passer. I see way too many low experience players join a game, pick Pyro and get upset when they realize that Explode on Ignite is disabled and are hit with a reality check that they have to actually _play_ the game in order to finish these missions.
Imagine creating a custom MvM mission only for it to be completely trivialized just because a Pyro spends 400 credits on one upgrade. No one wants to deal with incompetence.
Hell, even in the recent Moonlight MvM event Magnetic Mayhem, a lot of the custom missions have _less_ starting money just to nerf Sniper due to how oppressive he can be.
By this logic they should also bad explode on headshot
@@Nyxael5845 so pretty much what you're saying that this is ok on sniper but not with pyro even though sniper can do the same thing but almost 200% faster and better
@@Nyxael5845 but otoh they don't touch the sniper's "explosive headshot", right ? Because that requires "skill"...
@@Nyxael5845the point of mvm is to kill bots as fast and efficient as possible
the GP does that and you hate it because foes its job well
I think, at least in Mann Up, the main problem of the Gas Passer is that it lures new players to play the Pyro.
Pyro in early wave is a glass cannon which can die upon a sneeze, and he has an airblast- the thing that has arguably the highest troll potential. And also, Gas Passer is a single time use weapon with a cooldown.
So an incompetent Pyro often goes like this. Dies constantly, airblast spam without knowing what they're doing, and use up the Gas too early and left empty-handed when the team needs one. Not a teammate you would want to see on your team.
That's why I can somewhat agree on people saying "Playing with Gas Passer Pyro is annoying". Poorly designed weapon luring people into less-minded playstyle, a bad game design, I'd say.
Though, I won't and never will agree on those who kick or even list those Gas Passer Pyros. Annoying? Agree. Want it to be redesigned? Fair. Freaking Gatekeeping them from using the Gas...? You're a schizo.
Imagine being a powerful robot army, made to mimic the best mercenaries money can buy and then losing to a pyromaniac lunatic with a jerry can full of gasoline
Well that what happens when you face mercs that will see the of the rules of war and use as toilet paper.
Hear me out
What if said robots copied said lunatic and got themselves upgraded Gas Passers ? That would be funny I think.
@@vivelespatat2670horror
Imagine that exact same robot army losing to a random Australian with a musket.
Imagine that exact same robot army losing to a random Australian with a musket.
I think there is some even stupider bias here: I think the mvm high tour bros don't even want to associate with pyros in general, because of the negative stigma surrounding the class itself, like they see a pyro and instantly think it's either 3 hour andy or the gibusvision enjoyer, and that it would rub off bad on them or something. Everything is possible in high tour asylum
Moral of the story: never try Mann Up. Or consult with someone about you gambling addiction.
This is why Boot Camp is the only mode I play, it might as well be the real game
@@Trynt33 Agreed. No real expectations and no gambling? What's the downside again? Less skilled players are more common? A more than fair trade imo.
@@M4x_P0w3r b-but i want that golden frying pan man.
@@shadowzone2588then buy it :D
it’ll likely cost less than the total amount of tickets
I'm looking at this whole conflict and thinking:
"Don't people play games because they are _Fun_ ? They don't do that anymore?"
Gas Passer is anti-fun due to being so powerful and effortless to use that half the team might as well not be needed and just afk
people play mann up because it's easy and you get to *gamble*
the valve missions have been solved since 2014 and they are boring slogfests once a high tour gets on. if you want fun, go for boot camp
@@SamuelTrademarked that's the issue
Explode on Ignite has been a net negative for the game mode as a whole and should have never been conceived.
A bunch of the popular MvM community groups have basically banned it from being bought on the servers they run so they don't have to consider that buggy mess of an upgrade into mission design
all you need to do is look at how people act when they play any kind of competitive game after br games became popular
damn near everyone will google "[game name] meta build" and then play the exact same way every single match because that is what their google search told them to do... that is literally the pinnacle of making games not fun, all they want is to win, they dont care about the actual game play, just the end result
@@luigifan4585 you didnt watch the video, did you?
Very fantastically-said, Weezy. And I agree - people need to leave their ego at the door and consider that gas passer pyros are not out to steal teammates' kills, but deal with problems like Uber Medics.
Might be biased because I only play Boot Camp but god I just wish all Pyros who used Gas actually saved it for when it was necessary. I've had so many games in Advanced with a newer Pyro using Gas who just spams it constantly and then when we need it for Uber Medics they don't have it (or they just rush in and pop the Medics anyway for some reason instead of using the Gas). There are a fair amount of Pyros who know what they're doing in Boot Camp and I'll use it myself if I'm playing Pyro but gah it just annoys me when people don't know to save it or don't listen if someone tells them to save it for the Uber Medics
demomen when all they do is spam stickies to deal with uber medics, crowds and giants and the team is actually not required to do anything
Tbh one great way to shut down the “PvE balance doesn’t matter” argument is to simply bring up halo 2 legendary compared to its predecessor and successor
This, this right here. And that's even before Skulls, too. Halo 3 Legendary with Thunderstorm and Tough Luck? Extremely tough to your average player, but manageable with practice. Halo 2 Legendary with That's Just Wrong, Angry and the cloaking Skull? Hope you like 1 second game overs from things you can't see and also can't miss!
@@TusksTheAxew even without skulls you would have to memorize the composition, size, loadout, and spawn location of every squad of grunts, jackals, and pair of elites. Don’t even get me started on the absolute fucking hell hole that is the entirety of outskirts and the start of gravemind, “brutes! The faster you kill those brutes the better.” Is still seared in to my memory.
@@rainbowflameproductions7121 Gravemind in particular...man...I get why from a story standpoint they had to plop you in the middle of the action ill-equipped, but for the sake of Legendary, it really wouldn't have hurt to put you behind cover first. Maybe have Chief run behind something after he spooks the Grunt, add more cover.
Good point though. I'd prefer any other Halo Legendary with some Skulls over base Halo 2's Legendary any day of the week. As much as i love it, dear god did it need more time in the oven.
I appreciate your use of Castlevania music. I'm not biased at all.
Whenever I hear about the "Problems" that the gas passer has in terms of balance, I just remember the PAYDAY 2 days of people throwing temper tantrums over the Grimm 12G Shotgun. I cannot understand and will never understand the problem behind making the game easier, especially when it comes to valuable loot. So long as you're not actively cheating or exploiting the game that isn't intended, just use what you want. And if you don't like it, just leave and find a new lobby or queue up with friends.
Except there's nothing to actually gain monetarily in PAYDAY 2.
Those complaints were from people people who just didn't want a stupidly powerful option existing that didn't take more effort to get value out of.
Gas passer: exists. All high tours: this is the thing to end mankind
Also high tours: Stickybomb is a clutch of skilled players
you really haven't played with high tours if you think all of us hate gas.
Yet stay completely silent when a competent Sniper do it.
Also High tours: aimbot snipers are a valid tactic.
@@arslorsnot all of you but a large group of high tours.
I remember way way back in the day getting kicked as sniper in MvM maps because it wasn't meta. ( This includes bigrock before the community found out about how powerful sniper is on that map). In my own opinion it's not just people disliking the gaspasser for an actual reason. It's people disliking the gaspasser because hightours or the meta dictates that the gaspasser is bad, so they blindly follow it
Mvm players: what are you doing take off the gas passer or you’re getting kicked!
Also mvm players: why aren’t you using the gas passer? Start using it or you’re kicked!
just to note the same high tours telling you to switch off of it, wont also be the same ones telling you to use it.. the analogy does work for other busted strategies though.
@@papiderpyTo be fair, there are a couple of people in the comments who say that they get upset when someone doesn’t use the Gas, including one with a lot of upvotes. It’s mainly from what I assume people with lower tour counts.
The thing people forget is that the Gas Passer does very little against giants or tanks, whereas Invisible Bigrock Sniper and Scottish Resistance flat-out delete giants as well as crowds of robots.
Pyro is considered a tank buster due to their Primary, tho
@@luigifan4585 yes
The primary
Not the secondary these people throw a hissy fit over
The main problem with High Tour MVM is that they turned it into another branch of competitive TF2, which is completely community driven and also has a list of banned weapons depending on the mode. They can't just enjoy MVM as a PvE and have to drag their comp egos into it.
The issue of certain players trying to add PvP elements to a PvE game isn't just related to TF2 either; BFB is entirely PvE but some guys wanted a versus mode similar to L4D, in a game that was not built for that. No wonder it dropped off not long after it started.
Same with KF2. Granted, the versus mode is still somewhat popular (particularly on console), but the balance is a mess because you get to take max perks into a game with NORMAL difficulty; meaning you as zeds do less damage than you ought to be doing against a max perk playing on suicidal or HOE while the survivors can just run you over until someone gets the Patriarch.
as someone once said, "players will optimize the fun out of the game" and this might apply to MvM tenfold and oddly enough this is a quote from the dev of SIMCITY (the reboot one)
No sweaty retail-worker will ever tell me how to play a game.
If i want gaspasser i will fuckin play it.
God speed, you magnificent bastard!
95% of the high tours be like: REV UP THOSE F1 BECAUS THIS MAN USING LOGICAL SENSE THAT HURTS AOUR EGO
I took a swig am I doing it right
Hello team fortress 2 content creator ZestyJesus
"I AM the mouse in the conditioning container--" I simply cannot articulate how absolutely great this quote is. It's perfect.
BUCKETS
Dear god
THERES MORE
NO!
@@Kadskudai NO
No
Yeah after watching this, I realized that the only real problem with the Gas Passer is that it steals kills from other players who may need it. Airstrike, Eyelander, Bazaar Bargain, Health on Kill, Crits on kill, Heatmaker Focus, and Frontier Justice
(insert that clip of Doug Walker on his computer) high tours snipers when the Gas Passer pyro steals their kills (they still have the highest kill count by a order of 10)
Thanks again for another video on MvM Weezy, and it’s thanks to your tier list and precious Gas Passer video had me try out Pyro with it when someone took my main in MvM, really help out the points on how to clutch and how to break up a squad of medic bots and FoS Heavy bots
The rules of balance are simple: the community decides which classes are "high skill" and which are "low skill", and demands that "high skill" classes be buffed while "low skill" classes are nerfed. Pyro, a "low skill" class, cannot be good. That is bad balance. Good balance is when Medic spawns with 69% uber. This is basic biology. Bad balance is when Heavy kills me, good balance is when Scout kills me. Sniper is balanced because I spent 300 hours learning how to click.
#saveweezyfromgambling
Obviously it's not true for everyone, but i talked to a person with a crazy high tour count once after he ruined a game over a gas passer pyro. I asked him why he would go so far over something so pointless, and he admitted to me that harrassing new players over something trivial is the only thing he finds fun about MVM. He said that he goes out of his way to complain about anything a new player does, so that he can spend over an hour ruining the game for them
Sounds like someone who genuinely, truly, needs a psychiatrist.
"The got the tanks, they got the planes, they got the ships, and they got the chopa's" but don't forget the biggest one of all, they got the military data leaks 😂
I'll say roughly the same thing as last video: I have shy of 150 tours. The only time I've seen kicks for the gas passer has been after a failed round why the pyro constantly misses his shots (two of which were my intoxicated fault). I don't have a major problem with that. What I don't have a count on is the number of high-tour players seeing a gas passer pyro and quietly dropping out. And I don't have a problem with that either.
Different people play MvM for different reason. Personally, my favorite thing is teaching the concepts of the game to new players that are interested in learning. But so long as players aren't rushing to vote-kick, I have no problem with other players having their own selfish reasons for enjoying the game.
I had 1 person ever get mad at me for running the gas passer, the team really didint like him and promptly kicked him, they just said "as long as you're good with it and know your place, then you're cool in our books" phlog gas passer is a way of life, especially since the explosion can help put if other damage options are out or unavailable.
The perfect video to watch at 3 AM
Even Moonlight servers arent accepting the Gas Passer telling you that you don't need it to win their servers LMFAO
I mean, they are right. You can play Pyro without the Gas Passer and still be an effective class if you can play your cards right.
@@Nyxael5845 Im just saying its stupid how hated the gas passer is
@TheDoc_Kbc people likes some challenges. If you don't then just don't play it.
I can explain this one perfectly. Gas, along with similar strats, are OP. However, the other OP strats had counters to them. Good Map design (which gear grinder and other official maps lacked), good bot placement (Scottish can still maybe 1 shot giants, but they got a different giant elsewhere at the same time), unique bots that have vaccinators or Dragon's Fury Pyros (to name a few), and sniper spots that are good, but not OP like big rock.
Gas Passer is one of the few weapons that completely ignores any resistances and has a lingering AOE, and can be spammed in the hands of a decent Pyro, thus, it's harder to balance. When Titanium Tank tour from potato.tf released, he had some very hard missions, but gas trivialized them due to these unique properties, so gas upgrade is disabled as a result.
@TheDoc_K eh doesnt make the game easier if sniper sucks aiming, doesnt know how to upgrade or mission/map isn't sniper friendly. Same as scottish res sometimes. But even then, i actually don't play with scottish resistance demos that spam crits. I rather play with gas pyros bc most of them suck anywayd and still have fun unlike with scottish demos with medic and 2way.
personally, seeing a whole crowd of robots spontaniousely combust gives me plessure in the boat loads
1000+ tours MVM tryhards when they don't get 999999 kills on their australium Rocket Launcher because there's a gas passer pyro on their team ( It's unfair)
Had a game with a high tour. around 2000 tours. He was respectable and gave advice. as soon someone joined as a pyro he warned if he saw the gass passer he would leave. The pyro did use it at wave 4/6, But he was good enough too finish the round before leaving.
I am so confused with that mentality.
I think I’ve played with him before, his name is a mash of letters and symbols like C@*** if I remember correctly . He always leaves when there’s a gas pyro and uses a bind that says “no f@g gas” before dipping.
@@MeltyManMelts Not the same person. The person I had was respectful and everything. Just said if I see a single gas passer I will leave. he finished the wacve then left. not in the middle of it or something similar
@@DegmoGrandfather Ah ok, that guy sounds way more reasonable than the guy I got XD
As a high-tour that doesn't mind the Gas Passer, my perspective is that low-tour Pyros are some of the most inept clowns in MvM, but at least with the Gas Passer they can manage to be a useful idiot.
it makes the clowns funnier. flavor win.
tbh the worst teammates i've had, is bad engineers or bad medics.
@@woobgamer5210nah whiny demos are the worst
Something of note: in the community mvm events. The explode on ignite upgrade is banned, which on the expert missions feels a bit silly sometimes.
Reminds me of how nice the people I matched with on tour were, I got an Australium black box on my second tour and stopped buying tickets to play soon after, so I wasn't exposed to many high tour players and even then if they asked me to do something they'd give me valid reasoning as to why.
There's one thing that was consistent back when I was playing MvM: whenever I was playing something off-meta (like Spy or pre-GP Pyro), I was never, EVER told to switch class by a high tour. It was always a player with less than 20 tours that told me to switch class, because "we need a medic". A lot of people point at the high tours and, even if true that there was a huge chunk of toxicity on their part, more often than not meta enforcing was done by toxic low tours that couldn't even open their mind to the idea that the Two Cities Meta was not the sole way of playing the game. I feel like pointing at high tours or even the tacos here is just neglecting the bigger part of the community that is just monkeying the Two Cities meta without knowing what actually works.
I mean, the main reason the MvM group I was part of did all class runs (including all spies in all Expert and Wave 666) did those was to show people that class composition doesn't matter as much as, well, being good at the freaking game. That it's not because you have one bad player that you lost a wave: it's also a team effort to lose. If you are in a bad team, you are part of it.
The whole Godrock and SR Demo part? I agree 200%. I remember back then, a lot of people were pointing out at the hypocrisy when talking about the tacos, with Sniper/Demo being one of them, and even today I still agree to this. I also remember someone actually fixing the Godrock by putting a nav there and it just removed Sniper's invisibility. It's just a ridiculous easy fix for something that has always been extremely problematic. I wouldn't be surprised if most high tour groups would actually welcome a fix to the Godrock.
Which is imo another reason the hate is extremely focused on the Gas Passer. I feel like it's the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of how Valve treated the gamemode as a whole. Before that, we got things like infinite refunds (exploit turned feature), bugged-out server ban on kick, lack of balance updates and Medic being a forced pick to name a few issues - problems that are still present today. The Gas Passer was just another slap to anyone that cared about the gamemode. The problem of course is that everyone is just laser-focused on that last straw and people are ignoring all the other issues.
Out of all the gas passer videos I've seen, only ONE was from the perspective of a high tour who encouraged it.
The whole time he asked the pyro (who was on tour 7 of Two Cities) if he knew how to use it. The pyro said it's his first time being allowed to use it.
Guess what? The high tour told him everything that was good for, and helped with the build, giving him tips and positive feedback.
The video is no longer up because TacoBot started a hate campaign in the comments, because how dare a 'respectable high tour confide such filth'
1000+ Tour No lives when someone tries to play the game different
I think that maybe these people ought to be a little quieter about this, because if Valve were to wake from it's eternal slumber and take a look at the state of MvM, which do you think they would view as a problem? The working as intended Gas Passers explode on ignite? Or the map cheesing sniper that found a spot where he can't be targeted?
Who knows. Maybe they'll nerf the Gas Passer despite working as intended, even if that isn't the right thing to do.
First of all, Valve knew the mistake about it recharging on the explode, so that got fixed & tweaked numbers.
Second, there was a Potato MVM Visit to Valve Q&A, and they asked Valve, Eric Smith, why it was the case. Valve responded that in order to have a, "change," they would need to make a detailed report on why it is, "overpowered," and make a compelling case as to why it should be changed.
In the end : the Potato MVM Document mentions that Valve doesn't work on promising nor guaranteeing changes to be made, and it would be, "Better," to not change things at all anymore with TF2. Basically, Valve doesn't see it as a problem worth fixing just because a group of players is salty about it. Why should a group of salty players have more weight over what seems to be a majority of players that is okay with Valve's MVM?
Especially from a group that has done nothing but shown contempt towards their targets + bystanders with griefing, harassment, and exploitation just to get their way. And yet, the same salty group of players that STILL purchase tickets to consume them in Mann-up.
Just because people are passionate that much about it, doesn't mean they should have the game in their vision.
Today, Valve 100% knows what goes on in MVM given the many fixes against griefing, with the only thing left is to fix the Temporary Soft-Ban so it can actually work.
Every game I play I use the gas passer and it’s very op and yk kills robot fast, as of now no one complained about it. I don’t understand why people complain about it. It’s just a good item to use to speed up waves
They keeps saying it takes zero skill
Have you played Mannup Advanced or Expert?
@@kowx8649 I just play 2 cities and hoping for the gold frying pan at this point
@@3IsTheName Well, I think you'll meet one hater eventually
@@3IsTheName why a golden pan. if I may ask
Honestly this whole video is a micrcosm of how people view Pyro in general, especially the conclusion about "worthiness" and ego.
And then Valve released a Strange variant of the Gas Passer instead of the Dragon's Fury or Hot Hand.
lol
?
One time I got into a Bigrock game and went medic and my team told me to switch off because you only need a sniper and engineer for that map and didnt realize that if you only need those two then it shouldn't matter who I play as so I switched back next round but I got votekicked for doing so
Zero logic in that lobby
A comment from the old gas passer video summarizes their logic perfectly:
"People cant seem to handle The Pyro getting any sorts of W."
i wonder if high tours can survive a day in warframe where literally everyone goes into a room and all the enemies are gone within a button press
Honestly sometimes it sucks because I don't know if my nukes are doing anything lol
@@0Synergy don't need to worry if you play by yourself because a lot of the warframe community act like high tours
max range equinox go brrr
This is the leader of the fix tf2 movement. A druggy with no plans
>Comes in
>"I'm too high to talk"
>Continues talking for 45 minutes
I won't pretend to be a balance guru, or a paladin that wants to somehow pacify all sides of the argument. I just have fun using the Gas Passer in MvM, and I'll keep using it whenever I feel like watching a ton of robots blow up.
6:50 ad ends
IS THAT THE REAL GORDON FREEMAN
you can also use sponsorblock to automatically block them
Thank you, Gordon!
Right at the start of the official High Tour Hypocrisy Chapter. Thanks, @Weezytf2 .
the literal only problem i have with the gas passer is it makes some people play pyro in a suicidal way, they get one gas off at a blob, die trying to refill their tank, contribute little to the next robots or distract the medic to revive them instead of keeping the heavy or other classes healed up which often can break formations and let robots push, the weapon itself is fine to me as its not too different from other overpowered strategies, i just wish people would play it a little smarter and cut down their death ratios
well when you do 1000+ tours in a game and play the same in hours. you will either be bored senseless or find a scapgoat to latch onto
Watch. The sniper mains are going to come out again with the “it requires skill” argument.
Scottish resistance and gas passer both do really big damage super fast, both kill robots good and give you credits. Simple as.
I breathe a sigh of relief whenever Weezy uploads a new video, because with all the shit I go through in life, it could always be worse, I could be an MvM player
Please stop taking adderall weezy. At least not right before you go online.
*shake shake* here’s your pills weezy :)
cringe
Honestly I’m fine with these strats, even the gas passer, things like the SR and heat maker take time to learn and get good at, while the gas passer can accomplish the same thing, while being more accommodating to lower tour players, so they don’t have to rely on high tour players just to play the game
Gas Passer enjoyer here; I've been doxxed and DDoS'd multiple times for using it, and most of them are high tour goobers who are so high on their fragile ego that they're scared of me doing more damage than them. I use it for the purpose of, A) making the tour go faster, and B) being a backup horde or med killer in case someone perishes. That's it (aside from a problematic side-effect that slides me dopamine every time my kill sounds go off and deafen me). And I'll continue to use it for as long as I live, because I like pyro and his versatility. Problem is now, I've dealt with so many self-righteous assholes that I have to panickingly ask every server I join if I'm okay to use the gas passer. If someone doesn't like it, I switch servers until someone is, because I'm tired of being denied playing the game I love.
If you don't like the gas passer and are about to go off on someone because they're using it, please be nice about it. And that even goes for things outside of TF2. It's tiring to have to deal with negativity from others, and even yourself sometimes. Being nice is nice, please just try it for the sake of others.
I am Pyro. I became real. It's okay to use the Gas Passer in MvM.
Thanks bud, now I can try be one mann army
What do you think about blu pyro?
oh my god hes REAL!!
same here man. if it gets the job done, then that's all that really matters
@@Rebirth._ YES!
I think most people hate the gas passer because they hate pyro and they use the gas passer as an opportunity to have a reason for hating pyro
My first full tour I said "This is my first time" and one of the guys said "No surprise there" because I didn't prioritize overheal amount over blast shield.
Honestly I think another reason players hate it is because it's a weapon on Pyro, and Pyro is always hated no matter what they do. If any other class had the GP than no one would be complaining.
I've said it before and I will say it again: I would rather fight and die in the dirt and gravel alongside semi-competent low-tours than be carried through a total fucking snoozefest by some High-Tour Harry who kills two-thirds of the robots before I can even rev up. It's just not that fun. The Gas Passer, even at its peak, is not capable of the sheer destruction that the Scottish Resistance or the Heatmaker are. There's just no universe where it is. I'd genuinely be more okay with kicking a Demo who's trivializing the entire mission than a Pyro who occasionally pops a crowd of robots with the Gas Passer. I wouldn't do it, but I'd be less upset at the prospect of it.
As a 740+ Two Cities tour player, I can tell you that I have always cared about my fun. What does that mean?
I go gas passer pyro, I go liberty launcher solly, quick fix medic, and many more dumb builds because I find it fun and challenging
A friend showed me a site, not tacobot, about reviewing MvM players. I have like 8 complaints about me. "Gas passer pyro" "Switched from scout to sniper" "Dance taunted mid wave" When you play as much as I have you can relax and have fun with lots of things.
When it comes to gas passer I'll say this: I personally try to limit it when I play. I kill the medics and let the team kill the small dudes. Team getting overwhelmed by a push? Try gas to help out. Demo wants to do a crit kill on incoming bots? Let him have it. Yeah I can and could spam it but I know I'm not the only player on the team. I'm here cuz I want to have fun. I don't want to ruin other people's fun
Even as a high tour I still got kicked by other high tours for being "toxic". So stay safe out there
12:23 "nothing but hot air"
Literally showing a gas cloud
Just a funny thing I noticed
The thing that will annoyed about community mvm is that the gas passer is banned even in expert missions, where i don't think it would be that broken especially since some experts mission go overboard with the robots. as in you failing a wave for 5 times in row, you get that upgrade for that wave you are struggling.
Also i do think gas passer does require some skill sunch as postioning and throwing at the right time.
It isn't about late gane balancing, it's early game balancing.
Things that are meant to be a challenge because of little to no credits become nonexistent and turns into a mission balance nightmare due to the massive power spike 400$ gets you through explode on Ignite compared to any other single upgrade purchase by itself only.
@@luigifan4585skill issue