@@VillRezint how would it work though. A lot of impactful cutscenes in PW work the best in the comic book style and would be jarring imo in one-shot cinematic style of mgsv
@@vergil_6707 the majority of missions are better. Theres also like 100+ more missions. There are actually fun and interesting side missions that aren't just redoing the campaign missions again. The boss fights are infinitely better. The story is better. The loading times, missions start ups and endings blow V out of the water. The staff managment is much better. Sending staff on missions is much, much better. Peace walker has full coop. In peacwalker you can fight boss mechs and dinosaurs with your friends. There even several weapons and items that are coop exclusive. Peacemaker is a much better full product. V undoubtedly has better gameplay though
It's infuriating that MGS 4 didn't have VR missions. There was so little gameplay to begin with, but it might have the best mechanics in the entire series. Goddamn Konami.
You don’t get it. In MGS4, the robots and lack of human enemies is to set in foot that dead feeling. The only humans you encounter are the ghosts of the pasts. You can never truly go back.
I had the most fun with MGSPW. For a PSP game it was quite impressive with its graphics, amount of content and online functionalities. 5 was amazing presention and gameplay-wise but it felt kinda unfinished and lacked story co-op.
They could've had MGS3 "training missions" instead of VR. Like, you played Snake but without his headband(to emphasize him being a rookie) and it was utilized as a "Basic training" to learn the ins and outs of the game's mechanics while the boss gave commentary, you could even see her spectating you in a room above. You do basic CQC things, use those tricks to quicken the levels, different colored rooms to get an idea for the camo, mechanics expanded much more upon in their own sections and difficulty of course increases throughout the missions. This could also tie in to the virtuous mission when the Boss says "Jack, remember the basics of CQC"
That's quite true, tbh. And then you access secret missions by finding a hidden projector room in one of the missions, and the secret missions rip off various classic movies.
@@odinlindeberg4624 This would be such great concept, almost like a Tanker chapter of MGS 2, but instead are all the training that the boss gives you, with some bonding and story beats as you move from challenge to challenge (keeping them like individual sections like in Peace walker), while the movie parts would change how Paramedic, Major Zero and Snake interact while talking about them. Like instead of saying how dumb 007 movies and plots are in the context of "real" Spy missions, snake would comment how dumb going to a trainig mission (a mystery one) based on the movie was and how useless was to make one just to find the lack of application on the feel.
Wouldn't make sense for the story for Boss to oversee Snake's training and giving commentary. They see and speak together for the first time after the amount of time Snake says that they were separated.
Fun fact: In regards to MGS3D lacking VR missions MGS3D has unused "Extra Ops" in it's files. (some of which can be played) That said MGS3 allows for TONS of creativity in it's self contained areas. If Skyrim is an ocean with the depth of a puddle then MGS3 is the mariana trench.
I thought it was just the base game, years ago until I saw there was VR for the first game too. The HD collection of MGS2 for psvita is a bit wonky with no custom setting for the camera. Item switching was purely touch screen.
Don't agree with all the hot takes, but I totally get what you mean with the MGS main games lacking replayablility. I hated Peace Walker at first but once the game forced me to do side-ops and bosses for building the Metal Gear, it got me hooked. It encouraged me to actually give a shit about ranks and play with friends. MGS3 is still my favorite, but I still love PW's mission structure.
Finalblue1234 YE! Was the same for PW until I started replaying missions for scores and then trying online, so much fun. Really feels like you’re a part of this army
I agree the side ops were much creative thain main ops,boss battles were the most fun because they were challenging and just fun to play i remember losing 50 times against a harder level armored vehicle haha. If peace walker gets remade thwy should constantly add new boss battles. Or maybe a mgs game that rebuilds MSF
Why didn't you title this something like Why VR missions are the real stealth games? You haven't even mentioned piece walker like 20 minutes into the video
Charlie L. lol okay so for context, this video was inspired by a few conversations I had with people where I tried to explain to them why Peace Walker was my favorite in the series. Normally people just blew me off for even saying it. One day though I was talking about VR missions with someone who’d previously made fun of me for liking Peace Walker, and they admired that they were dope. So I came up with the idea of making an entire video convincing people that VR missions are the best in the series only to pull the rug out from beneath them at the last minute and tell them I was basically describing Peace Walker the whole time. Sorry if that made it tough to get into, but I thought it’d be funny and help get people’s attention in order to convince them lol
This argument only works because you have decided to throw half of what makes the games good out and focus only on tightly designed segments of gameplay. A game is not just the controls and goals, it is also the context of those controls and goals, and the reasons for completing them. You assume that a voice clip and a high score are what everyone lives for, but fail to remember that people can just as easily be motivated by story. You also neglect to mention many gameplay elements that were in the stories of these games, that muddy the waters on this claim that the "gameplay" is best in VR. You can master areas just as much in story as you can in VR, you just don't get a screen giving you a high five every 30 seconds. You can get yourself killed an restart the area if you get spotted, you can play on a high difficulty that auto game overs when you get spotted. In MGS2 you can hunt dogtags to unlock special items, you can find 100s of easter eggs. You can interact with the environment in a bunch of crazy ways. The tanker mission's ending with all the Marines can provide for an hour of weird and fun experimentation. MGS3 ties survival mechanics into the whole of the game, dealing with hunting and curing yourself as well as blending in with the environment. Taking down bosses non-lethally awards you with camo that you can bring into ng+, you can unlock infinite ammo, stealth camo, and weapons for replays aswell. The Boss fights in both games are ALSO little separate mastery challenges that you can learn to take down with expert precision. I could mention so many more ways in which the story modes provide AMPLE gameplay opportunities not found in VR but I think the point is made. It seems that you have confused constant score screens with replayability. The truth of the matter is that the story modes have many of the same challenges, while also providing many unique ones, and they can be mastered just the same. You just won't get a pat on the back every minute. But that abstract scoring screen is just a motivation for you to do better, it isn't the capacity to do better. That capacity is already there. In the story.
33:34 The trudge through the swamp is much, much shorter if you never killed anyone except for the Cobras. Mechanically, it does punish you if you killed a lot of people.
You know, you can't just ignore that the sum of Metal Gear Solid is as much, if not more, about its story telling as it is about its gameplay mechanics. If you want to make a video specifically about the series' stealth action mechanics, that's perfectly fine but I'd wish you'd clearly state that from the get go.
Y'know me: I always love a good hill to die on, especially for an unpopular opinion. I appreciate the thesis you put forth regarding the series identity and how PW fulfills it the best. But the one comment you made that I really can't agree with is that PW encourages skillful play, in a way similar to the VR missions, because the limit of the dexterity allowed in PW is shallow as a puddle. You're very restricted during conventional stealth gameplay regarding how much Snake and the player can pull off in terms of actual, skillful stealth. Partially because of what the PSP's control schemes can accommodate but also because a lot of fundamental aspects that allow for high-level stealth gameplay are straight up missing from PW. A lack of intelligent enemy AI to mess with, a lack of reactions to exploit (compare the sheer number things enemies can react to in V in various ways, or 2 and 3 for that matter, then compare it to PW), and a lack of interactivity between the game's exterior systems, such as environmental. The most damning thing to me is there's almost no room for player skill development. Getting a good flow in PW is as easy as waltzing up behind enemies and slamming them with CQC, because no matter what, you'll always move at the same speed, so low level PW play and high level PW play are basically just how well memorized they have the map, but for the most part, players will move at a similar speed and still feel a relatively good sense of progression through the screen, regardless of how experienced they are and how much they understand the game's guts. In contrast, MGS2-V encourage players learn how to slip by the fastest by having a real "stop-and-go" quality to normal play. You have stop to hide behind walls or to shoot a gun or go prone and crawl past guards, all of which feel slower and more awkward/graceless than sprinting through the enemy lines, so learning how to constantly move forward while taking out/avoiding the guards is an impressive task. Watch an MGS3 speedrun and notice how its totally different from the way the game feels at a casual level. The same applies to 2, 4, and V, at varying levels. But PW has so few actual mechanics to exploit or to work with. And for the most part, PW as a game allows for almost no personal player expression. The tranq is greater than ever in bite-sized missions where lining up headshots is easier than ever (the only reason I'd say people think it V is worse in that regard is that V is 200 hours fucking long), the amount of viable options within the loadout is still relatively low, exacerbated by the fact that most screens are especially corridor-like, so any weapon that doesn't fire straight is hard to work with, and the AI can't be exploited anyways, so playing with different options doesn't yield different enough results for the average player to work with. That's excluding the fact that fultoning guards always takes priority over any other kind of strategy. So most play styles will look similar to one another, and that's a damn shame for a series whose stealth is usually versatile enough to make skill demonstration videos. But at the end of the day I recognize that we just view the series identity totally different. It probably wouldn't surprise you to hear that my personal view of the series is based on how much self-expression and skillful play its mechanics allow, which is why PW is probably my least favorite game in the series. But your video sticks the landing at explaining your view on MGS and how PW gets it right. The rest of your points about the series' identity are totally fair, and even if I don't agree with that interpretation, you put up a great argument that PW fulfills what you love to see in an MGS game. I have almost no love for PW as a mechanical experience but I can at least appreciate how much cohesion it has.
Myles with a Y ye I agree with its issues, particularly the AI, it sucked not being able to mess with it at the same level BUT one thing: yo that tranq is op but I think most people forget how garbage the suppressor is on it from a fresh playthrough. Takes a good while until you can last a while missions without the silencer breaking. I liked that a looooot, reminded me of the VR missions with limited ammo, but ye Bless you, really glad to have ya bois with very different views of the series identity stepping it up and dropping hot boxes 👌👌👏🙏🚨💌
Myles with a Y I mean hey it's amazing for what it is. Something fun and quick you can play on the go like on train rides or planes or stuff. Where time is an issue and you don't have the time for a full on metal gear mission....plus it's the first metal gear where you can fucking crouch walk
@@ThrillingDuck Being thoughtful and fair isn't as hard as people might say. Let's all do our part when having discussions like this to make sure that the other person feels heard, even if, like me, you disagree with them thoroughly
I know the title is misleading but I love showing this to people when they wonder why I'm playing the vr missions. I always liked them but couldn't really word it in a good way, and this vid does it perfectly. Thanks dude
OH MY GOD THANKS FOR GIVING LOVE TO MGS1 VR MISSIONS. I spent more time with this game than the original campaign (which I beat like 10 times). There's SO MUCH gameplay depth in the VR missions. These missions challenged me in every way. Figuring out puzzle like solutions, efficient handling of weapons and sneaking
metal gear solid for the gbc have the main mission separated by levels, one you finish the game you can play that section and try to get a better score, they have also alternate objectives of the main levels, and it also have VR missions.
I mean Peace Walker is amazing and it's almost tied for me as the best with Snake Easter. But my problem with your interpretations is that you state that every single installment in the series is actually bad from the get go. Like wth? lol. They might not be your cup of tea but they're not as bad as you mentioned.
39:29 are you suggesting that Ground Zeroes is a superior game to Phantom Pain? *HALLELUJAH HOLY SHIET!!!* btw portable ops plus is basically the vr missions treatment plus fanservice overload being able to play as every character imaginable , god i wish they ported it like they did with PW
I know it's a semi old video but completely get where you're coming from with your critique (peace walker felt a bit slow for my liking and im not really a fan of small snippets of missions, but that's me and understand why you do). Not sure why so many disagreed so viscerally (even saw the coveted 'Kojima did finish mgs5, it's all deliberate' response) with you without engaging in the video but MGS fans can be a fickle bunch and put Kojima and the story on a unreachable pedestal. Hope you're doing good!
In MGS2, while you were defusing bombs, Snake was _also_ defusing bombs. You were not "playing player 2." MGS3 had Snake vs the Monkey, Boss Rush, and Metal Gear Online. Why did you pretend that MGS3 has no side content outside the main story?
@@kindairish2562 he played the hd collection,servers are down boss rush are only the bosses not sneaking missions not advanced mode nothing and metal gear online is shut down yet again that’s online not sneaking missions
Peace Walker appreciation squad. Watching this, I now understand why I loved it as much as I did, especially in terms of gameplay (requirements for the true ending though can fuck off XD)
I do not fully agree that the ghost river sequence is disconnected from gameplay. When I first played it, at least, the fact that I still had control of Snake even if not as part of the main gameplay loop still hit me hard. Also, you mention the loadout menu, which I think 3 tries to get you to experiment with too. One of the incentives that you mention is that every single mission has a score, but you also say that the ghost river sequence shames you thematically not mechanically. How is some arbitrary letter or number more connected to the game mechanically than the ghost river sequence? Scores are not diegetic, yet they are a big part of your argument.
There was a reason why MGS3 and 4 didnt have VR: Space in the disk, and money. Both games already had too much space occupied on the DVD and Blueray, and both costed a lot of money to develop. There are interviews where they say they had lots of VR ideas for both, but they couldnt. At the same time, the reason why VR exists on 1 & 2 is because they had space, money and time to spare. The story is that apparently one developer had fun designing some VR missions for MGS1 because they felt the mechanics could be used outside of the narrative in clever ways. He showed Kojima and he liked it. They made the ones for the main game. Since it sold well, they wanted to make a lone game with dozens of ideas they had for VR missions. So that's kinda the story in a nutshell. Also, MGS3 didn't have VR but did have the monkey capture game, which was hilarious and fun gameplay. Has loads of that things you said you like of VR. Also, I find funny that you say you cannot learn to cook 'nades or put C4 on the main game. You aren't very curious right? I played MGS1 when I was 9 years old, and I discovered all that by playing with the mechanics. It's a stealth game with gadgets and weapons galore, the idea is to experiment. I used to get through the comms tower by knocking nades on the wall with the right timing so they blow your persecutors. Took time to learn, but man, the face of my friends when they saw you could do that. I understand why you like Peace Walker by how much emphasis you put on gameplay and short mission games. It's not a bad thing, but I don't agree. Story and narrative is the main thing of MGS, fun gameplay is second and since most of them were so short, when you played them more than once you learned all those stuff and applied it. Hell, there's a reason why 1 through 4 reward you with stuff for replaying and making some specific codenames. EDIT: What I think doesnt work on MGSV it's that it tried to be both things: small bite sized challenges, and a narrative. I've talked to friends about how I think MGSV should've been like a roguelike in which you play a merc in Big Boss's Outer Heaven (any of the two from the MSX Metal Gears) and just manage the company and go on missions, with coop. Make smaller setpieces, in varied locales and do fun missions like in Peace Walker. That would've given us a game that could be played for a long time since forgoing all the narrative elements would have freed money for making locales, missions, weapons... Survive did somewhat this, but in a very, VERY poor way.
I like mgs V and peace walker, but for different reasons, i love the story and the level system in pw but for gameplay i love V, i just love starting it and take over some outposts, its just good tps gameplay with stealth and shooting, but playing pw is the better overall experience
Thank you for making this video Lambhoot. Been meaning to like and subscribe to your channel a little over a year but just recently have. Big fan of your stuff. Though my favorite Metal Gear solid is 2, it is my favorite specifically for the VR, and Snake Tales portions of the game. Plus, the goofy skateboarding mini game is fun and only available on the ps2 version of Substance. But this video you made simply blew me away because you had discovered how mgs is best played. The most fun you can really have in these games is with a start and finish mini mission that test your metal for mastering the mechanics of the gameplay. Finally someone is speaking my language! I would agree that Peace Walker is the best because it plays like VR missions, and was perfectly combined with story and structure. It is one hell of a beast, with an eventual end to what seems like endless content on a hand held. I'd love to see more Metal Gear from you. I recommend and would love to see you cover the original on-the-go non-canon Metal Gear game: Ghost Babel. This whole video and perspective you have of these games reflects the entire content of that game. Give it shot north barrito! Also, fun fact: I'm your 700th liked subscriber. Go cover Ghost Babel just because of that! Lol!
Snake Eater and Guns of the Cutscenes for me. Peace Walker loses out on the actual sleuthing by simplifying the mechanics so much. AI is dumb as bricks, no prone sneaking, bosses are bullet sponges, story feels inconsequential to the series wide narrative etc. Still a great game, but I would play every other MGS over it without a second thought. It does have better gameplay than MGS1 though. I enjoyed that game the least out of the marathon I did recently, precisely for the reasons you gave. Compare that to the classic REs and FFs, it really hasn’t aged as well, but is still a modern classic.
Eazy Elof I can only speak for RE2 and RE3. I thought those aged absolutely brilliantly. I didn’t feel any dissonance playing them right after REmake when I played them all for the first time a couple years ago.
PW irrelevant to overarching narrative? It depicts the actual transformation of naked snake into big boss and delves fairly deep into his character and psyche, way more than even mgs3 did. It completes the Big Boss story and ends in the creation of Outer Heaven. How in Gods name is it irrelevant?
Yeah I watched one boss fight and was turned off on how little damage he was doing and how long the boss fight was it was like a 10 min video of him shooting at that final metal gear in PW pass
How can you go from MGS to Sons of Liberty and then say that Peace Walker is the only the game that makes a big leap? The differences between 1 and 2 are ridiculous
Agreed 1000%. I put over 100 hours into Peace Walker. Also enjoyed the story. The series could've ended with Big Boss' final speech. Phantom Pain answered questions that weren't asked and muddied a convoluted series even more.
I'm at the vr missions part. I... HATE time attack stuff. Major props to mgs1 vr missions for subconsciously teaching me to hold X while aiming a gun to move and shoot at the same time, that was a total mindf*ck. I also don't agree with a lot of mgs1 statements, the 1st 2 rooms have a footsteps mechanic, only difference is 2 puddles of water or snow... Plus there are rooms with which player choice is given, and the most important play through is the 1st one making player choice an absolute necessity... Yet to beat VR Missions there are very specific objectives which eliminate player choice........ Also the f*cking background, it's cool as hell but when I got to some of the stinger missions I actually started feeling extremely dizzy and sick. Footprints aside I do wish there was another spotlight section... But by not having another one (like with snow footprints) it breaks gaming conventions of rinse/repeat, making the world feel more real. To me, mgs1 is perfection, a 5 star meal. Anyway, on to find out why peace walker is somehow the best, yet to me it's the worst.
Yeah God no I still dont like peace walker. I mean wtf is even the point of the loadout especially with camouflage if you have no idea what you're getting into, and if you do know what you're getting into then you've already played that mission before which breaks the immersion. And I think you left out the most obvious flaw on purpose, the f*cking QuickTime events which COUNT TO YOUR F*CKING SCORE! We all know mgs cutscenes are lengthy and its no different for peace walker, so even after you experience your first QuickTime event and realizing it counts to your score you STILL set the controller down to watch a badass cutscene and soak it in, yet to "be the best" you must always be prepared for any QuickTime event even though there are plenty of cutscene without it, breaking the immersion even more. What was that thing you complained about in mgsv? Inconsistencies? Well there's a ton of it right here and it's worse because it's not a system you can play with until it laughably breaks. Plus you can't crawl along the ground, you have to lie completely still. Sure, limitations, but every game since metal gear 2 solid snake had crawling. As for co-op, I played a little of that with my brother and had a decent time, and if I played more I probably wouldve enjoyed it more too. I do also like how the game is like Easter egg central, there is a lot of fun content packed into it I bet I missed out on about half the game somehow and that is really cool. Plus the door knob guy had a pretty cool thing going for him, the art style was so f*cking cool to see through like most of the game and it was all also a rather touching story that younger audiences could experience... But they experienced zero crawling, a need for friends, forced controller held cutscenes which don't allow you to get distracted even by a little, a really weird immersion breaking camouflage system, and a revealed mgs3 twist. Mgs3 is mature, if you were a kid, chances are you weren't allowed to play mgs3 because it was m rated, so you had to settle for peace walker which rendered mgs3's story obsolete......... And we allllll know that mgs3's story the best. I like mgs1 the best because the story is a great one making you feel actually betrayed and breaking the 4th wall wonderfully while keeping a really fun gameplay value (my problem with mgs2 is just big shell being so boring, mgs4's problem to me was it had a really good story but it sacrificed the best mgs games' story to do so, and I do completely agree with you on mgsv). Screw all the time attack stuff though, being expected to do stuff a certain way is not fun, it's like having someone look over your shoulder while your washing dishes and telling you constantly how to do it the "right way", f*ck that I wanna do it my own way because I know my way works....... Though at least peace walker gave the players more agency in comparison to VR Missions, I still hate time attack with a passion. I give peace walker props for doing that for people who seek that out, but don't force them to put all their focus in cutscene in the event there MIGHT be a QuickTime event. So yeah, I think you just helped me realize why I think peace walker is the worst one. Not bashing on you, I watched your mgsv video and completely agree save for maybe 1 things maybe... But how is this acceptable, why do people think this is the greatest mgs? I will never know.
I agree with most of your points, but honestly, your jabs at MGSV pissed me off a lot. That game expands on most of what made Portable Ops good and it also has the most content of any game in the series, excluding the VR missions. Unlike MGS1-4, that game didn’t need the VR missions because of what the gameplay already offered. I can appreciate your focus on gameplay over story in the video, as most people can’t do that when talking abbot the series, but in terms of gameplay, I think MGSV has the best in the series, so it just saddened me to see you treat the game the way you did.
Mgsv has the best free ranged stealth to wherein I can tackle any mission in any way possible. Story wise, crap, the structure of the game was crap and don’t even get me started on the last 10 missions they were the first 10 missions just on a harder difficulty?? Get that shit outta here dude other than the gameplay everything about mgsv was crap.
Would love you to do a retrospective of the Metal Gear Acid games in this style, they’re oft forgotten and rarelt discussed amongst MGS fans. VR missions are indeed whole new extended experiences with MGS1/2 mechanics but Acid turns sneaking gameplay on its head entirely. Turn based stealth! Adore your videos dude. Thanks for all these uploads.
FINALLY!!! someone who agrees with my opinion. I just can't put on words how much I love PW, I used to say it was the bigger MGS in the smaller PS. Thank you for this video, I really think PW deserves much more love than it received until now.
I don't dislike Peacewalker at all but I have seen a ton of criticism of it of varying quality/validity that are worth bringing up none the less. "Ruining" the ending of MGS3, being seen as an unnecessary sequal, (even if it's story isn't as worthless as Portable Ops) control issues on PSP ofc(even if it does control well for the PSP), being too easy to sneak, over with over simplified gameplay and stealth mechanics, brain dead AI that struggles to kill you (even a genome solidier could kill you.),having ridiculous grind, a neutered secondary ending that while it does incentize further playing the game betrays the games story strengths and any positives of the prior ending like tossing away the bandanna among other criticisms or complaints valid or not. MPO is a far poorer game with a really bad story (that *was* keyword *WAS* canon) but the moment to moment stealth is better. It's badly optimized, (MPO+ fixed this and hell it's practically nothing but VR missions)) the framecap is low and by default (Unless your emulating the game) until you go to options it's camera is inverted, and doesn't aim where the camera faces (like MGS3 and 2) as many prefer from more modern titles until you go and change it in options. In Peacewalker bodies disappear and even their death cries won't alert their comrades. Tranqing someone doesnt make them disappear but with the Fulton that's another non issue as you can instantly remove the possible sign of intrusion. The enemy can't even see the soldier once the balloon is on them. Its the terrible bindings and button placement of it's camera compared to Peacewalker that's it's most obvious issue. The stamina system from MPO was terrible and might have been better suited for PW which still has the bar but it's useless outside of Versus. Funnily enough the crouch walk probably would have been better for suited for MPO's more blocky large practically urban environs and crawling better for PW as it actually has a camo system and grass and foliage to blend into. Maybe then they could have raised the vision cone of those blind bastards.
GuyOnAChair yeah Peace Walker gets pooped on quite a bit, but not as much as PO lol idk though I felt like the story was still strong. It didn’t ruin mgs3’s, it completes it. It showed you how easily someone could drop their morals given the right context and become their own villain, but it did it silently. Peace Walker was about Snake’s silent revolution towards the more warmongery things he does later. Thanks!
Snake is already warmongering in Peacewalker. He is unaware of what he has become as MSF expands. The recluse band of misfit soldiers he has at the start go from being the people he's trying to prevent from being mistreated or used like he was to being innumerable supply of man power on a flow chart that are nearly faceless that are being sent across the world to fight small pointless conflicts around the world in outer ops to fight not for country or ideology but for purely for profit. Literal warmongering. He claims they are "soldiers without borders" but they literally have their own territorial waters. It's not a nation FOR soldiers, it is merely a nation OF soldiers. Snake has gone from being used to using others. Peacewalker may not feel like a villains origin story but that's because we are seeing it from his perspective and nobody really see's them self as the villain (He literally recruits child soldiers). I respectfully wouldn't say Peacewalker shows "how easily someone could drop their morals given the right context" but I would say that it shows how a person can lose sight or go from say feeling they HAVE to do something; to just finding an excuse as to why they "HAVE" to do something. He goes from having to do what he did to wanting to do what he did again. He was respected for it, it paid well and he was good at it. He literally craved "ever bigger tensions", "Ever bigger thrills". So long as there was conflict he would have purpose; he even says as much eventually: "We need no reason to fight. We fight because we are needed" and so long as they continue to fight proxy battles across the world they certainly will be needed. He wen't from having nothing to lose (but a shack) that he knew very well he and his rag tag group of men could be chased out of at any moment from the local government to a massive offshore plant where he has the freedom to do whatever he want's without fear of being held accountable or used himself and that's the sort of thing you would be willing to do anything to keep. When he finds out Kaz was going behind his back he didn't hesitate to drop him when he has the chance (even though Miller himself later came to regret scheming with Cipher to begin with) . His fear of being controlled or threatened leads to him convincing himself despite the overwhelming evidence provided to him by the Peacewalker incident that would imply that deterrence theroy doesn't work that he would regardless be much safer if he has his very own nuclear equipped bipedal tank (Paz even confronts him about this hypocricy, calling him a "lousy liar"). Big Boss ends up exploiting his most trustworthy soldier's loyalty (Aka that one guy other than Big Boss that you played as the most in PW), using him as a decoy to further shield him and even do most of the foot work for him and as we know in the end this decoy will end up getting killed when this backfires by a scheme not too dissimilar to the situation that led the powers that be to have had Naked Snake kill the Boss. (Oh and not to be too abrupt but MPO really does have a terrible story, somewhat tedious recruitment mechanic and a terribly implemented stamina mechanic lol. Peacewalker is overall the better game. For MPO (MPO+ Particularly) it's purely the amazing multiplayer and the fact it technically paved the way and provided the basic concept for what would be later refined into the titular "Tactical Espionage Operations" of PW and V that gave it any legacy what so ever. Hell the music is criminally better than the title itself.)
You had me until the Portable Ops part. I’d say that game tied with Peace Walker. It had a similar mission structure and base management, though not as good as PW. As a trade off, though, it had amazing full MGS style bosses and a much better story. PW’s bosses were fun to grind, but they had no personality. PO’s FOX bosses were just as great as MGS1’s Foxhound, and better than DeadCell, Cobra, and B&B.
The story was horrendous in MPO. The whole thing was just a badly written rehash of MGS1. It did awful damage to the canon and fucking ruined big boss, gray fox, fucked with MGS3s plot, and was just a pile of fan service meant to appeal to MGS1 fanatics who just want to play the same game over and over. It has no themes, pointless shock twists, and terrible characterisation. Theres a reason Kojima literally removed it from the canon.
If only TPP had as much content as PW. The story doesn’t bother me as much in TPP as the fact that when I play it I see clearly about a hundred fun things you can do with it’s system. Phantom pain indeed.
My only problem with peace walker is that its to easy to get an s rank just by using the stealth suit and a hush puppy. Hush puppy(tranquillizer gun) makes stealth way to easy. And the stealth suit makes 0 noise so you can run next to them and they wont hear you at all.
Generally, when you have a thesis or argument you usually begin talking/writing about the subject prior to 66% into the piece. This is insane that you spend damn near 20 mins on VR missions and start talking about PW 33 MINUTES INTO THE VIDEO. Make two videos, one about the VR missions and a 12 minute video about PW.
Technically, the VR missions tangent works because the reason he likes Peace Walker so much is because its so much like the VR missions so first he explains why he likes VR and then uses that to explain why he thinks PW is the best in the series. However, he did it super long windily admittedly
It is the best, though the plot lacks the energy and settings of 4. You can say many, many things about 4 but I loved the Middle East chapter and modern day setting.
Jakub Jakubowski Yeah the Middle East and South America chapters were both amazing, just wish the game didn’t stop coming up with new ideas past that point Thanks!
Jakub Jakubowski If the entire game was like the early chapters, it would be the best. There were just WAY too many cutscenes and the last few chapters are awful to replay.
Interesting perspective. I never played Peace Walker (seems cool) but I sorta get where you're coming from. I did sorta wonder why MGS3 didn't have a VR mode or at least, a boss rush. It's not a big deal for me but I get why it did disappoint you. In general, I though this was a good video.
Super Gamer61499 yeah, MGS3 lacking any vr missions or a boss rush is really hard to replay... sometimes you just wanna try out one feature you know? Thanks?
To be fair MGS3 Subsistence on PS2 has a "Duel mode" that allows you to re fight specific bosses and it times you to see how fast you can beat them. They left it out of the HD collection though for some reason.
Lol it's not my whole identity I'm just horrible at consistent posting. Balancing many interests is killer. Anyway, arguing Peace Walker's greatness is a tall feat. I myself love the game, it strangely feels like a Metal Gear with more heart put into it to make up for it's limitations being built first for a handheld. Though it's limitations do knock a good few points off of it since it doesn't allow for the same kind of high level play that I actually enjoy seeing footage of (the likes of which mainly seen in 3, 4 and V, manipulating A.I. and using randomly included mechanics that when used properly make for pure comedy.) The main focus here is that Metal Gear in it's entirety did a crap job actually encouraging players to try and play beyond the basic skill level. As was spoken of here, almost all of them include mechanics that make for interesting scenarios but don't actually use most of them. Tools and maneuvers that the player has are just options rather than necessities. I am a fan of options, however I will admit that I was never compelled to actually use most tools at my disposal in any given Metal Gear game since at the end of the day I can literally go through any one of them with a tranq pistol alone (and honestly that limitation bred it's own form of challenge that is arguably satisfying enough on it's own in some way where the thought of trying other tools and weapons was pushed further to the back of my mind). PW may not have the same level of options as other entries but ya know if it did and they still didn't choose to require you to use them why bother? With how story focused the series is as well it felt less necessary to really try to learn the games further since there really isn't any incentive for it other than arbitrary ranks at the end of each game, aka bragging rights. I kinda just went through and went back to the games for just the stories. As unnecessary as folks argue PW's story is to the grand MG narrative I for one give credit to it for re-purposing world building side codec convos to tapes as that allows the fluff to stay to the side but remain constantly accessible at all times, where as earlier games had plenty of side codec convos to listen to but made most of them only able to be played within certain conditions, either within certain points of the story or by activating specific or obscure triggers (and by just going in to the codec a lot on your own time in general, which itself was a tall order when the main games have so many codec calls to begin with).
Vinjok it feeeeeels like a lot of complaints have to do with the AI in peace walker, which is probably right, it wasn’t very good in most areas. In combat it was solid, but ye, get you. but ye that mission structure 👌👌💸
Peace Walker is literally for smart people. Well i would say smart, more like bored people lol .... bored to the point of experimentation. Once you actually stop trying to just get pass the guards and start experimenting you will love the game. When i learned how to shoot a guard in the leg, have him call for backup, then tranq him, allow the back up to come, put a magazine down to distract one of them, sneak up on the other one, slam him hold him up, run to the other guard that is reading the magazine, grab him, interrogate him, hold him up make him get on the ground, then scan the enemies to see if they are worth taking to base, i loved the game lol But you gotta actually play the game
I don't really agree that Peace Walker or the VR missions are the "best" Metal Gear has to offer (MGR VR Missions are pretty cool too btw.!) but I do agree that they were a fantastic inclusion and it's a bummer they never came back after 2. MGS3 always made sense to me. Subsistence had an online mode, the ape thing, a new camera, the classic MG1&2 and whatnot, it was a great package already and 4 ... Well, it never got it's revision :( I bet if they did a MGS4: [Weird name, probably starting with Sub] it would contain VR missions and probably controlable Raiden and shit. They would've gone crazy and do Metal Gear Mk.2 missions for the sake of it. It's so sad this never happened. And V never had the chance for a new version ... Getting V with a hard mode, additional missions and tools and maybe some VR missions or general time trials would be awesome.
Pretty sure you're hurting my feelings, but this is so, so done, that I don't think I'm smart enough to know. MGS3 is my fav game of all damn time. Peace Walker fights constantly with MGSV for second place, and only takes the win most of the time due to nostalgia. But holy fuck, even I can admit that in terms of gameplay and mechanics, TPP is by far the superior game. But the story being such pigeon shit really hurts it. Imo 3 was perfect. I can see why the exclusion of VR missions would knock it down some for some people, but I adore that game. If Peace Walker was a console game tho, that would easily be the best game of all damn time. I like to lump PW and TPP together, as GZ was only 3 months after PW, and after Venom awakens, it is just PW on crack, for a console. I love it. But still, something about Snake Eater just took my heart n will never let it go, n I'm fine with that.
It sounds like this guy doesnt actually like metal gear. He thinks 3 is the worst game, refuses to play mgs1 and finds 2 boring
Yep. I did not agree with at least 75% of what he said.
As soon as he said the voice actors were "phoning it in" in MGS1, I knew I could completely disregard his opinion.
he is like seasonal fan just starter from mgsv
Peace Walker remade in the FOX Engine with Ashley Wood's cutscenes would be the single greatest game ever made
No, with normal cutscenes made by FOX Engine.
@@VillRezint how would it work though. A lot of impactful cutscenes in PW work the best in the comic book style and would be jarring imo in one-shot cinematic style of mgsv
It would have been what phantom pain should have been. So embarrassing that the psp game was better than the on console sequel
@@aroccoification hard disagree
@@vergil_6707 the majority of missions are better. Theres also like 100+ more missions. There are actually fun and interesting side missions that aren't just redoing the campaign missions again. The boss fights are infinitely better. The story is better. The loading times, missions start ups and endings blow V out of the water. The staff managment is much better. Sending staff on missions is much, much better. Peace walker has full coop. In peacwalker you can fight boss mechs and dinosaurs with your friends. There even several weapons and items that are coop exclusive.
Peacemaker is a much better full product. V undoubtedly has better gameplay though
It's infuriating that MGS 4 didn't have VR missions. There was so little gameplay to begin with, but it might have the best mechanics in the entire series. Goddamn Konami.
Yeah, mgs 3D too...
@@Joe_334 yeah but mgs3 too place in the past. so it made sense that it wouldnt.
goddamn kojima as well lol
Konami?? You meam Kojima
You don’t get it.
In MGS4, the robots and lack of human enemies is to set in foot that dead feeling. The only humans you encounter are the ghosts of the pasts. You can never truly go back.
And a brunch of Soldier Woman in a Boss fight, truly a dead feeling
I had the most fun with MGSPW. For a PSP game it was quite impressive with its graphics, amount of content and online functionalities. 5 was amazing presention and gameplay-wise but it felt kinda unfinished and lacked story co-op.
They could've had MGS3 "training missions" instead of VR. Like, you played Snake but without his headband(to emphasize him being a rookie) and it was utilized as a "Basic training" to learn the ins and outs of the game's mechanics while the boss gave commentary, you could even see her spectating you in a room above. You do basic CQC things, use those tricks to quicken the levels, different colored rooms to get an idea for the camo, mechanics expanded much more upon in their own sections and difficulty of course increases throughout the missions. This could also tie in to the virtuous mission when the Boss says "Jack, remember the basics of CQC"
That's quite true, tbh. And then you access secret missions by finding a hidden projector room in one of the missions, and the secret missions rip off various classic movies.
@@odinlindeberg4624 OMG YESS
@@odinlindeberg4624 This would be such great concept, almost like a Tanker chapter of MGS 2, but instead are all the training that the boss gives you, with some bonding and story beats as you move from challenge to challenge (keeping them like individual sections like in Peace walker), while the movie parts would change how Paramedic, Major Zero and Snake interact while talking about them.
Like instead of saying how dumb 007 movies and plots are in the context of "real" Spy missions, snake would comment how dumb going to a trainig mission (a mystery one) based on the movie was and how useless was to make one just to find the lack of application on the feel.
Wouldn't make sense for the story for Boss to oversee Snake's training and giving commentary. They see and speak together for the first time after the amount of time Snake says that they were separated.
Thats a great idea actually. What a missed opportunity.
Fun fact: In regards to MGS3D lacking VR missions MGS3D has unused "Extra Ops" in it's files. (some of which can be played)
That said MGS3 allows for TONS of creativity in it's self contained areas. If Skyrim is an ocean with the depth of a puddle then MGS3 is the mariana trench.
Shoutouts to SuperBunnyHop
he acknowledges this
It really is so weird to see someone have so much hate for 1 and 2 and enjoy the VR modes that much more than the main games.
Yeah I'm watching this video and thinking "I get preference but God damn what is this dude taking to hate the main games so damn much"
Just sold VR missions to me... okay sir guess I got a whole lot more metal gear to play
I thought it was just the base game, years ago until I saw there was VR for the first game too. The HD collection of MGS2 for psvita is a bit wonky with no custom setting for the camera. Item switching was purely touch screen.
Don't agree with all the hot takes, but I totally get what you mean with the MGS main games lacking replayablility.
I hated Peace Walker at first but once the game forced me to do side-ops and bosses for building the Metal Gear, it got me hooked. It encouraged me to actually give a shit about ranks and play with friends. MGS3 is still my favorite, but I still love PW's mission structure.
Finalblue1234 both are perfect games. Side by side only 1st games i played before getting into the rest
Finalblue1234 YE! Was the same for PW until I started replaying missions for scores and then trying online, so much fun. Really feels like you’re a part of this army
The boss fights fucking sponge on and on took a hour on the fucking tanks can't crawl
I agree the side ops were much creative thain main ops,boss battles were the most fun because they were challenging and just fun to play i remember losing 50 times against a harder level armored vehicle haha. If peace walker gets remade thwy should constantly add new boss battles. Or maybe a mgs game that rebuilds MSF
I find every metal gear game super replayable. Beat mgs3 like 70 times and the other games over anywhere between 10 to 50 times depending on the game
Why didn't you title this something like Why VR missions are the real stealth games? You haven't even mentioned piece walker like 20 minutes into the video
cause his videos are crap
Charlie L. lol okay so for context, this video was inspired by a few conversations I had with people where I tried to explain to them why Peace Walker was my favorite in the series. Normally people just blew me off for even saying it.
One day though I was talking about VR missions with someone who’d previously made fun of me for liking Peace Walker, and they admired that they were dope. So I came up with the idea of making an entire video convincing people that VR missions are the best in the series only to pull the rug out from beneath them at the last minute and tell them I was basically describing Peace Walker the whole time.
Sorry if that made it tough to get into, but I thought it’d be funny and help get people’s attention in order to convince them lol
@@PliskinHK shut up snake
32 minutes, that'show long it takes for this guy to finally get into why he likes Peace Walker. Fucking hell. What a disaster.
This argument only works because you have decided to throw half of what makes the games good out and focus only on tightly designed segments of gameplay. A game is not just the controls and goals, it is also the context of those controls and goals, and the reasons for completing them. You assume that a voice clip and a high score are what everyone lives for, but fail to remember that people can just as easily be motivated by story. You also neglect to mention many gameplay elements that were in the stories of these games, that muddy the waters on this claim that the "gameplay" is best in VR.
You can master areas just as much in story as you can in VR, you just don't get a screen giving you a high five every 30 seconds. You can get yourself killed an restart the area if you get spotted, you can play on a high difficulty that auto game overs when you get spotted. In MGS2 you can hunt dogtags to unlock special items, you can find 100s of easter eggs. You can interact with the environment in a bunch of crazy ways. The tanker mission's ending with all the Marines can provide for an hour of weird and fun experimentation. MGS3 ties survival mechanics into the whole of the game, dealing with hunting and curing yourself as well as blending in with the environment. Taking down bosses non-lethally awards you with camo that you can bring into ng+, you can unlock infinite ammo, stealth camo, and weapons for replays aswell. The Boss fights in both games are ALSO little separate mastery challenges that you can learn to take down with expert precision.
I could mention so many more ways in which the story modes provide AMPLE gameplay opportunities not found in VR but I think the point is made. It seems that you have confused constant score screens with replayability. The truth of the matter is that the story modes have many of the same challenges, while also providing many unique ones, and they can be mastered just the same. You just won't get a pat on the back every minute. But that abstract scoring screen is just a motivation for you to do better, it isn't the capacity to do better. That capacity is already there. In the story.
Ok you've convinced me to play some VR missions. I remember having fun with them when I was younger.
33:34 The trudge through the swamp is much, much shorter if you never killed anyone except for the Cobras. Mechanically, it does punish you if you killed a lot of people.
You know, you can't just ignore that the sum of Metal Gear Solid is as much, if not more, about its story telling as it is about its gameplay mechanics. If you want to make a video specifically about the series' stealth action mechanics, that's perfectly fine but I'd wish you'd clearly state that from the get go.
Y'know me: I always love a good hill to die on, especially for an unpopular opinion. I appreciate the thesis you put forth regarding the series identity and how PW fulfills it the best. But the one comment you made that I really can't agree with is that PW encourages skillful play, in a way similar to the VR missions, because the limit of the dexterity allowed in PW is shallow as a puddle.
You're very restricted during conventional stealth gameplay regarding how much Snake and the player can pull off in terms of actual, skillful stealth. Partially because of what the PSP's control schemes can accommodate but also because a lot of fundamental aspects that allow for high-level stealth gameplay are straight up missing from PW. A lack of intelligent enemy AI to mess with, a lack of reactions to exploit (compare the sheer number things enemies can react to in V in various ways, or 2 and 3 for that matter, then compare it to PW), and a lack of interactivity between the game's exterior systems, such as environmental.
The most damning thing to me is there's almost no room for player skill development. Getting a good flow in PW is as easy as waltzing up behind enemies and slamming them with CQC, because no matter what, you'll always move at the same speed, so low level PW play and high level PW play are basically just how well memorized they have the map, but for the most part, players will move at a similar speed and still feel a relatively good sense of progression through the screen, regardless of how experienced they are and how much they understand the game's guts. In contrast, MGS2-V encourage players learn how to slip by the fastest by having a real "stop-and-go" quality to normal play. You have stop to hide behind walls or to shoot a gun or go prone and crawl past guards, all of which feel slower and more awkward/graceless than sprinting through the enemy lines, so learning how to constantly move forward while taking out/avoiding the guards is an impressive task. Watch an MGS3 speedrun and notice how its totally different from the way the game feels at a casual level. The same applies to 2, 4, and V, at varying levels. But PW has so few actual mechanics to exploit or to work with.
And for the most part, PW as a game allows for almost no personal player expression. The tranq is greater than ever in bite-sized missions where lining up headshots is easier than ever (the only reason I'd say people think it V is worse in that regard is that V is 200 hours fucking long), the amount of viable options within the loadout is still relatively low, exacerbated by the fact that most screens are especially corridor-like, so any weapon that doesn't fire straight is hard to work with, and the AI can't be exploited anyways, so playing with different options doesn't yield different enough results for the average player to work with. That's excluding the fact that fultoning guards always takes priority over any other kind of strategy. So most play styles will look similar to one another, and that's a damn shame for a series whose stealth is usually versatile enough to make skill demonstration videos.
But at the end of the day I recognize that we just view the series identity totally different. It probably wouldn't surprise you to hear that my personal view of the series is based on how much self-expression and skillful play its mechanics allow, which is why PW is probably my least favorite game in the series. But your video sticks the landing at explaining your view on MGS and how PW gets it right. The rest of your points about the series' identity are totally fair, and even if I don't agree with that interpretation, you put up a great argument that PW fulfills what you love to see in an MGS game. I have almost no love for PW as a mechanical experience but I can at least appreciate how much cohesion it has.
Myles with a Y ye I agree with its issues, particularly the AI, it sucked not being able to mess with it at the same level
BUT one thing: yo that tranq is op but I think most people forget how garbage the suppressor is on it from a fresh playthrough. Takes a good while until you can last a while missions without the silencer breaking. I liked that a looooot, reminded me of the VR missions with limited ammo, but ye
Bless you, really glad to have ya bois with very different views of the series identity stepping it up and dropping hot boxes 👌👌👏🙏🚨💌
Myles with a Y I mean hey it's amazing for what it is. Something fun and quick you can play on the go like on train rides or planes or stuff. Where time is an issue and you don't have the time for a full on metal gear mission....plus it's the first metal gear where you can fucking crouch walk
You could Crouch Walk in MGS4, but I respect that PW expanded on that
If all dissenting opinions could be expressed this way, the world would be a better place.
@@ThrillingDuck Being thoughtful and fair isn't as hard as people might say. Let's all do our part when having discussions like this to make sure that the other person feels heard, even if, like me, you disagree with them thoroughly
This gave me a new perspective on mgs series as a whole
as for mgs3 not having vr missions i do believe the game itself is the vr mission. or something along those lines.
I know the title is misleading but I love showing this to people when they wonder why I'm playing the vr missions. I always liked them but couldn't really word it in a good way, and this vid does it perfectly. Thanks dude
OH MY GOD THANKS FOR GIVING LOVE TO MGS1 VR MISSIONS. I spent more time with this game than the original campaign (which I beat like 10 times). There's SO MUCH gameplay depth in the VR missions. These missions challenged me in every way. Figuring out puzzle like solutions, efficient handling of weapons and sneaking
metal gear solid for the gbc have the main mission separated by levels, one you finish the game you can play that section and try to get a better score, they have also alternate objectives of the main levels, and it also have VR missions.
I've never someone talk about the VR mode in MGS in such detail and envy of this mode. Good job
I mean Peace Walker is amazing and it's almost tied for me as the best with Snake Easter.
But my problem with your interpretations is that you state that every single installment in the series is actually bad from the get go. Like wth? lol. They might not be your cup of tea but they're not as bad as you mentioned.
I'm pretty sure it's his opinion dog. Most of the video has been referencing hopping in and out for stealth gameplay
You'd like the newest three Hitman games, it's exactly what you're looking for.
I did that c4 at MGS when I was 12. Classic
MGS is one of my all time favorite
39:29 are you suggesting that Ground Zeroes is a superior game to Phantom Pain?
*HALLELUJAH HOLY SHIET!!!*
btw portable ops plus is basically the vr missions treatment plus fanservice overload being able to play as every character imaginable , god i wish they ported it like they did with PW
I rewatch this more for the vr mussion segments than peace walker
Lambhoot, you never fail to surprise me with your crazy opinions that end up making a strange amount of sense. Never stop and never change mah dude.
I know it's a semi old video but completely get where you're coming from with your critique (peace walker felt a bit slow for my liking and im not really a fan of small snippets of missions, but that's me and understand why you do). Not sure why so many disagreed so viscerally (even saw the coveted 'Kojima did finish mgs5, it's all deliberate' response) with you without engaging in the video but MGS fans can be a fickle bunch and put Kojima and the story on a unreachable pedestal.
Hope you're doing good!
I'm sorry did we not all plant C4 on the guards using the urinal outside the commander's room?
In MGS2, while you were defusing bombs, Snake was _also_ defusing bombs. You were not "playing player 2."
MGS3 had Snake vs the Monkey, Boss Rush, and Metal Gear Online. Why did you pretend that MGS3 has no side content outside the main story?
Because it made his argument stronger lol
@@kindairish2562 he played the hd collection,servers are down boss rush are only the bosses not sneaking missions not advanced mode nothing and metal gear online is shut down yet again that’s online not sneaking missions
Peace Walker appreciation squad. Watching this, I now understand why I loved it as much as I did, especially in terms of gameplay (requirements for the true ending though can fuck off XD)
I thought this was a peace walker video.
The VR missions where you use the ninja were also a total blast.
I knew staying up until 6 AM for a Lambhoot video and then waking up 7 hours later when he just so happened to upload would come in handy.
Mesmerizing Walrus ahahaha, yeah this one was a pain to get out ahaha
I do not fully agree that the ghost river sequence is disconnected from gameplay. When I first played it, at least, the fact that I still had control of Snake even if not as part of the main gameplay loop still hit me hard. Also, you mention the loadout menu, which I think 3 tries to get you to experiment with too. One of the incentives that you mention is that every single mission has a score, but you also say that the ghost river sequence shames you thematically not mechanically. How is some arbitrary letter or number more connected to the game mechanically than the ghost river sequence? Scores are not diegetic, yet they are a big part of your argument.
Damn this is good. I’ve never heard someone discuss the vr missions in this kind of detail
I always ignored the VR missions but you just sold me on it. I will go back and give it a shoot. Man I missed something really awesome!
There was a reason why MGS3 and 4 didnt have VR: Space in the disk, and money. Both games already had too much space occupied on the DVD and Blueray, and both costed a lot of money to develop. There are interviews where they say they had lots of VR ideas for both, but they couldnt.
At the same time, the reason why VR exists on 1 & 2 is because they had space, money and time to spare. The story is that apparently one developer had fun designing some VR missions for MGS1 because they felt the mechanics could be used outside of the narrative in clever ways. He showed Kojima and he liked it. They made the ones for the main game. Since it sold well, they wanted to make a lone game with dozens of ideas they had for VR missions. So that's kinda the story in a nutshell. Also, MGS3 didn't have VR but did have the monkey capture game, which was hilarious and fun gameplay. Has loads of that things you said you like of VR.
Also, I find funny that you say you cannot learn to cook 'nades or put C4 on the main game. You aren't very curious right? I played MGS1 when I was 9 years old, and I discovered all that by playing with the mechanics. It's a stealth game with gadgets and weapons galore, the idea is to experiment. I used to get through the comms tower by knocking nades on the wall with the right timing so they blow your persecutors. Took time to learn, but man, the face of my friends when they saw you could do that.
I understand why you like Peace Walker by how much emphasis you put on gameplay and short mission games. It's not a bad thing, but I don't agree. Story and narrative is the main thing of MGS, fun gameplay is second and since most of them were so short, when you played them more than once you learned all those stuff and applied it. Hell, there's a reason why 1 through 4 reward you with stuff for replaying and making some specific codenames.
EDIT: What I think doesnt work on MGSV it's that it tried to be both things: small bite sized challenges, and a narrative. I've talked to friends about how I think MGSV should've been like a roguelike in which you play a merc in Big Boss's Outer Heaven (any of the two from the MSX Metal Gears) and just manage the company and go on missions, with coop. Make smaller setpieces, in varied locales and do fun missions like in Peace Walker. That would've given us a game that could be played for a long time since forgoing all the narrative elements would have freed money for making locales, missions, weapons... Survive did somewhat this, but in a very, VERY poor way.
I like mgs V and peace walker, but for different reasons, i love the story and the level system in pw but for gameplay i love V, i just love starting it and take over some outposts, its just good tps gameplay with stealth and shooting, but playing pw is the better overall experience
Let me get some popcorn for this
Thank you for making this video Lambhoot. Been meaning to like and subscribe to your channel a little over a year but just recently have. Big fan of your stuff.
Though my favorite Metal Gear solid is 2, it is my favorite specifically for the VR, and Snake Tales portions of the game. Plus, the goofy skateboarding mini game is fun and only available on the ps2 version of Substance.
But this video you made simply blew me away because you had discovered how mgs is best played. The most fun you can really have in these games is with a start and finish mini mission that test your metal for mastering the mechanics of the gameplay. Finally someone is speaking my language!
I would agree that Peace Walker is the best because it plays like VR missions, and was perfectly combined with story and structure. It is one hell of a beast, with an eventual end to what seems like endless content on a hand held.
I'd love to see more Metal Gear from you. I recommend and would love to see you cover the original on-the-go non-canon Metal Gear game: Ghost Babel. This whole video and perspective you have of these games reflects the entire content of that game.
Give it shot north barrito!
Also, fun fact: I'm your 700th liked subscriber. Go cover Ghost Babel just because of that!
Lol!
Snake Eater and Guns of the Cutscenes for me.
Peace Walker loses out on the actual sleuthing by simplifying the mechanics so much. AI is dumb as bricks, no prone sneaking, bosses are bullet sponges, story feels inconsequential to the series wide narrative etc. Still a great game, but I would play every other MGS over it without a second thought.
It does have better gameplay than MGS1 though. I enjoyed that game the least out of the marathon I did recently, precisely for the reasons you gave. Compare that to the classic REs and FFs, it really hasn’t aged as well, but is still a modern classic.
SaberRexZealot
"AI is dumb"
So.....it's like every MGS? LMAO
Resident Evil has not aged well. I would much rather play MGS1 and at least be able to look around than RE.
Eazy Elof I can only speak for RE2 and RE3. I thought those aged absolutely brilliantly. I didn’t feel any dissonance playing them right after REmake when I played them all for the first time a couple years ago.
PW irrelevant to overarching narrative? It depicts the actual transformation of naked snake into big boss and delves fairly deep into his character and psyche, way more than even mgs3 did. It completes the Big Boss story and ends in the creation of Outer Heaven. How in Gods name is it irrelevant?
Yeah I watched one boss fight and was turned off on how little damage he was doing and how long the boss fight was it was like a 10 min video of him shooting at that final metal gear in PW pass
Mgs3, peace walker, mgs5 are mah favs jack daddy
How can you go from MGS to Sons of Liberty and then say that Peace Walker is the only the game that makes a big leap? The differences between 1 and 2 are ridiculous
Agreed 1000%. I put over 100 hours into Peace Walker. Also enjoyed the story. The series could've ended with Big Boss' final speech. Phantom Pain answered questions that weren't asked and muddied a convoluted series even more.
I'm at the vr missions part. I... HATE time attack stuff. Major props to mgs1 vr missions for subconsciously teaching me to hold X while aiming a gun to move and shoot at the same time, that was a total mindf*ck. I also don't agree with a lot of mgs1 statements, the 1st 2 rooms have a footsteps mechanic, only difference is 2 puddles of water or snow... Plus there are rooms with which player choice is given, and the most important play through is the 1st one making player choice an absolute necessity... Yet to beat VR Missions there are very specific objectives which eliminate player choice........ Also the f*cking background, it's cool as hell but when I got to some of the stinger missions I actually started feeling extremely dizzy and sick. Footprints aside I do wish there was another spotlight section... But by not having another one (like with snow footprints) it breaks gaming conventions of rinse/repeat, making the world feel more real. To me, mgs1 is perfection, a 5 star meal. Anyway, on to find out why peace walker is somehow the best, yet to me it's the worst.
Yeah God no I still dont like peace walker. I mean wtf is even the point of the loadout especially with camouflage if you have no idea what you're getting into, and if you do know what you're getting into then you've already played that mission before which breaks the immersion.
And I think you left out the most obvious flaw on purpose, the f*cking QuickTime events which COUNT TO YOUR F*CKING SCORE! We all know mgs cutscenes are lengthy and its no different for peace walker, so even after you experience your first QuickTime event and realizing it counts to your score you STILL set the controller down to watch a badass cutscene and soak it in, yet to "be the best" you must always be prepared for any QuickTime event even though there are plenty of cutscene without it, breaking the immersion even more. What was that thing you complained about in mgsv? Inconsistencies? Well there's a ton of it right here and it's worse because it's not a system you can play with until it laughably breaks. Plus you can't crawl along the ground, you have to lie completely still. Sure, limitations, but every game since metal gear 2 solid snake had crawling.
As for co-op, I played a little of that with my brother and had a decent time, and if I played more I probably wouldve enjoyed it more too. I do also like how the game is like Easter egg central, there is a lot of fun content packed into it I bet I missed out on about half the game somehow and that is really cool. Plus the door knob guy had a pretty cool thing going for him, the art style was so f*cking cool to see through like most of the game and it was all also a rather touching story that younger audiences could experience... But they experienced zero crawling, a need for friends, forced controller held cutscenes which don't allow you to get distracted even by a little, a really weird immersion breaking camouflage system, and a revealed mgs3 twist. Mgs3 is mature, if you were a kid, chances are you weren't allowed to play mgs3 because it was m rated, so you had to settle for peace walker which rendered mgs3's story obsolete......... And we allllll know that mgs3's story the best.
I like mgs1 the best because the story is a great one making you feel actually betrayed and breaking the 4th wall wonderfully while keeping a really fun gameplay value (my problem with mgs2 is just big shell being so boring, mgs4's problem to me was it had a really good story but it sacrificed the best mgs games' story to do so, and I do completely agree with you on mgsv).
Screw all the time attack stuff though, being expected to do stuff a certain way is not fun, it's like having someone look over your shoulder while your washing dishes and telling you constantly how to do it the "right way", f*ck that I wanna do it my own way because I know my way works....... Though at least peace walker gave the players more agency in comparison to VR Missions, I still hate time attack with a passion. I give peace walker props for doing that for people who seek that out, but don't force them to put all their focus in cutscene in the event there MIGHT be a QuickTime event.
So yeah, I think you just helped me realize why I think peace walker is the worst one. Not bashing on you, I watched your mgsv video and completely agree save for maybe 1 things maybe... But how is this acceptable, why do people think this is the greatest mgs? I will never know.
I agree with most of your points, but honestly, your jabs at MGSV pissed me off a lot. That game expands on most of what made Portable Ops good and it also has the most content of any game in the series, excluding the VR missions. Unlike MGS1-4, that game didn’t need the VR missions because of what the gameplay already offered. I can appreciate your focus on gameplay over story in the video, as most people can’t do that when talking abbot the series, but in terms of gameplay, I think MGSV has the best in the series, so it just saddened me to see you treat the game the way you did.
gilgamesh310
MGS V is not as good as Red Dead Redemption
You’re right. It’s better ;)
Absolutely agree with your points!
Mgs3 had the most content
Mgsv has the best free ranged stealth to wherein I can tackle any mission in any way possible. Story wise, crap, the structure of the game was crap and don’t even get me started on the last 10 missions they were the first 10 missions just on a harder difficulty?? Get that shit outta here dude other than the gameplay everything about mgsv was crap.
Astonishing video with very good arguments and in my opinion everything is just right. Thanks for this.
Would love you to do a retrospective of the Metal Gear Acid games in this style, they’re oft forgotten and rarelt discussed amongst MGS fans. VR missions are indeed whole new extended experiences with MGS1/2 mechanics but Acid turns sneaking gameplay on its head entirely. Turn based stealth!
Adore your videos dude. Thanks for all these uploads.
I dont agree with you about a lot the other MGS games' flaws, but I love peace walker.
12 minutes in and we’re talking about VR
vr missions ghost babel and portable ops r the best in the whole series
The VR missions sound pretty cool.
6:10 GOLD 😂
Put down the links to 8bit soundtracks used in this video
please.
Specially 4 th one
Interesting perspective, I've never touched the VR missions since I was in it for the story, but I still think PW is the best
This was really interesting. Also I completely, utterly disagree. But it was very interesting, thank you.
FINALLY!!! someone who agrees with my opinion. I just can't put on words how much I love PW, I used to say it was the bigger MGS in the smaller PS. Thank you for this video, I really think PW deserves much more love than it received until now.
I don't dislike Peacewalker at all but I have seen a ton of criticism of it of varying quality/validity that are worth bringing up none the less. "Ruining" the ending of MGS3, being seen as an unnecessary sequal, (even if it's story isn't as worthless as Portable Ops) control issues on PSP ofc(even if it does control well for the PSP), being too easy to sneak, over with over simplified gameplay and stealth mechanics, brain dead AI that struggles to kill you (even a genome solidier could kill you.),having ridiculous grind, a neutered secondary ending that while it does incentize further playing the game betrays the games story strengths and any positives of the prior ending like tossing away the bandanna among other criticisms or complaints valid or not.
MPO is a far poorer game with a really bad story (that *was* keyword *WAS* canon) but the moment to moment stealth is better. It's badly optimized, (MPO+ fixed this and hell it's practically nothing but VR missions)) the framecap is low and by default (Unless your emulating the game) until you go to options it's camera is inverted, and doesn't aim where the camera faces (like MGS3 and 2) as many prefer from more modern titles until you go and change it in options.
In Peacewalker bodies disappear and even their death cries won't alert their comrades. Tranqing someone doesnt make them disappear but with the Fulton that's another non issue as you can instantly remove the possible sign of intrusion. The enemy can't even see the soldier once the balloon is on them. Its the terrible bindings and button placement of it's camera compared to Peacewalker that's it's most obvious issue. The stamina system from MPO was terrible and might have been better suited for PW which still has the bar but it's useless outside of Versus. Funnily enough the crouch walk probably would have been better for suited for MPO's more blocky large practically urban environs and crawling better for PW as it actually has a camo system and grass and foliage to blend into. Maybe then they could have raised the vision cone of those blind bastards.
GuyOnAChair yeah Peace Walker gets pooped on quite a bit, but not as much as PO lol
idk though I felt like the story was still strong. It didn’t ruin mgs3’s, it completes it. It showed you how easily someone could drop their morals given the right context and become their own villain, but it did it silently. Peace Walker was about Snake’s silent revolution towards the more warmongery things he does later.
Thanks!
Snake is already warmongering in Peacewalker. He is unaware of what he has become as MSF expands. The recluse band of misfit soldiers he has at the start go from being the people he's trying to prevent from being mistreated or used like he was to being innumerable supply of man power on a flow chart that are nearly faceless that are being sent across the world to fight small pointless conflicts around the world in outer ops to fight not for country or ideology but for purely for profit. Literal warmongering. He claims they are "soldiers without borders" but they literally have their own territorial waters. It's not a nation FOR soldiers, it is merely a nation OF soldiers. Snake has gone from being used to using others.
Peacewalker may not feel like a villains origin story but that's because we are seeing it from his perspective and nobody really see's them self as the villain (He literally recruits child soldiers). I respectfully wouldn't say Peacewalker shows "how easily someone could drop their morals given the right context" but I would say that it shows how a person can lose sight or go from say feeling they HAVE to do something; to just finding an excuse as to why they "HAVE" to do something. He goes from having to do what he did to wanting to do what he did again. He was respected for it, it paid well and he was good at it. He literally craved "ever bigger tensions", "Ever bigger thrills".
So long as there was conflict he would have purpose; he even says as much eventually: "We need no reason to fight. We fight because we are needed" and so long as they continue to fight proxy battles across the world they certainly will be needed. He wen't from having nothing to lose (but a shack) that he knew very well he and his rag tag group of men could be chased out of at any moment from the local government to a massive offshore plant where he has the freedom to do whatever he want's without fear of being held accountable or used himself and that's the sort of thing you would be willing to do anything to keep. When he finds out Kaz was going behind his back he didn't hesitate to drop him when he has the chance (even though Miller himself later came to regret scheming with Cipher to begin with) . His fear of being controlled or threatened leads to him convincing himself despite the overwhelming evidence provided to him by the Peacewalker incident that would imply that deterrence theroy doesn't work that he would regardless be much safer if he has his very own nuclear equipped bipedal tank (Paz even confronts him about this hypocricy, calling him a "lousy liar"). Big Boss ends up exploiting his most trustworthy soldier's loyalty (Aka that one guy other than Big Boss that you played as the most in PW), using him as a decoy to further shield him and even do most of the foot work for him and as we know in the end this decoy will end up getting killed when this backfires by a scheme not too dissimilar to the situation that led the powers that be to have had Naked Snake kill the Boss.
(Oh and not to be too abrupt but MPO really does have a terrible story, somewhat tedious recruitment mechanic and a terribly implemented stamina mechanic lol. Peacewalker is overall the better game. For MPO (MPO+ Particularly) it's purely the amazing multiplayer and the fact it technically paved the way and provided the basic concept for what would be later refined into the titular "Tactical Espionage Operations" of PW and V that gave it any legacy what so ever. Hell the music is criminally better than the title itself.)
Yo I'm out here feeling like a badass after playing all the mgs 2 raiden vr missions. And then I watch this vid and I feel like a sucker....
Denis I want you to start a pop radio station where you only play these 8-bit MIDI versions
that deep throat part caught me off guard
Your thoughts about mgs1,2,3 confirmed me that you are not liking mgs truthfully
You had me until the Portable Ops part. I’d say that game tied with Peace Walker. It had a similar mission structure and base management, though not as good as PW. As a trade off, though, it had amazing full MGS style bosses and a much better story. PW’s bosses were fun to grind, but they had no personality. PO’s FOX bosses were just as great as MGS1’s Foxhound, and better than DeadCell, Cobra, and B&B.
The story was horrendous in MPO. The whole thing was just a badly written rehash of MGS1. It did awful damage to the canon and fucking ruined big boss, gray fox, fucked with MGS3s plot, and was just a pile of fan service meant to appeal to MGS1 fanatics who just want to play the same game over and over. It has no themes, pointless shock twists, and terrible characterisation. Theres a reason Kojima literally removed it from the canon.
Mgs3 HD edition came with metal gear and metal gear 2 solid snake
At 37:35 I laughed so hard. Great video my dude!
JamesGaming YO I was trying over and over again to connect for weeks, even had emails back and forth with Konami tech support... so upset over that
LambHoot RH lol i'm sorry dude
You had me like exactly at 6:10
If only TPP had as much content as PW. The story doesn’t bother me as much in TPP as the fact that when I play it I see clearly about a hundred fun things you can do with it’s system. Phantom pain indeed.
Nah. It’s good but it doesn’t hold a candle to 1,2 or 3
Mgs PW was one of my teenhood games
I just have to randomly ask, what are your thoughts on Metal gear Acid and Metal Gear Acid 2?
Never played it but it looks like it aged rather well, especially for a PSP game.
Until chapter 5 and you have to farm metal gear parts for Zeke lmao
Your videos are good 👌
Stealthy B your comments are good 👌
...is that a MIDI version of mambo N.5?? :D
Why Peace Walker is the best MGS
*is really why vr missions is the best MGS*
THESIS IMMINENT
My only problem with peace walker is that its to easy to get an s rank just by using the stealth suit and a hush puppy. Hush puppy(tranquillizer gun) makes stealth way to easy. And the stealth suit makes 0 noise so you can run next to them and they wont hear you at all.
Generally, when you have a thesis or argument you usually begin talking/writing about the subject prior to 66% into the piece.
This is insane that you spend damn near 20 mins on VR missions and start talking about PW 33 MINUTES INTO THE VIDEO.
Make two videos, one about the VR missions and a 12 minute video about PW.
Technically, the VR missions tangent works because the reason he likes Peace Walker so much is because its so much like the VR missions so first he explains why he likes VR and then uses that to explain why he thinks PW is the best in the series. However, he did it super long windily admittedly
Yeah there is a lack of structure here
Is that Mambo No. 5 in 8-Bit?
Also, really great video as always.
Proto Kirby yes that was mambo numbo 5 lol
What's the number 4 8 bit tune??? 10:50
This guys opinions are insane & it took like 80% into the video to even start talking about peace walker💀
31:07 in that moment i was like "you know there is pw, that is just wha-" o whait.... the video is about pw
Agreed 100% Peace Walker is great, nice video you got a thumbs-up in a sub from me
Nocturnal Nights thanks fam! 👌
It is the best, though the plot lacks the energy and settings of 4. You can say many, many things about 4 but I loved the Middle East chapter and modern day setting.
Jakub Jakubowski Yeah the Middle East and South America chapters were both amazing, just wish the game didn’t stop coming up with new ideas past that point
Thanks!
Jakub Jakubowski If the entire game was like the early chapters, it would be the best. There were just WAY too many cutscenes and the last few chapters are awful to replay.
Interesting perspective. I never played Peace Walker (seems cool) but I sorta get where you're coming from.
I did sorta wonder why MGS3 didn't have a VR mode or at least, a boss rush. It's not a big deal for me but I get why it did disappoint you.
In general, I though this was a good video.
Super Gamer61499 yeah, MGS3 lacking any vr missions or a boss rush is really hard to replay... sometimes you just wanna try out one feature you know?
Thanks?
To be fair MGS3 Subsistence on PS2 has a "Duel mode" that allows you to re fight specific bosses and it times you to see how fast you can beat them. They left it out of the HD collection though for some reason.
the way you talk and try to get ur odd points out your not a anime character TALK LIKE A PERSON
I’m mediterranean and I stutter a bit. Sorry I guess.
Lmao what kind of comment is this?? He has an accent bro
Lol it's not my whole identity I'm just horrible at consistent posting. Balancing many interests is killer.
Anyway, arguing Peace Walker's greatness is a tall feat. I myself love the game, it strangely feels like a Metal Gear with more heart put into it to make up for it's limitations being built first for a handheld. Though it's limitations do knock a good few points off of it since it doesn't allow for the same kind of high level play that I actually enjoy seeing footage of (the likes of which mainly seen in 3, 4 and V, manipulating A.I. and using randomly included mechanics that when used properly make for pure comedy.) The main focus here is that Metal Gear in it's entirety did a crap job actually encouraging players to try and play beyond the basic skill level. As was spoken of here, almost all of them include mechanics that make for interesting scenarios but don't actually use most of them. Tools and maneuvers that the player has are just options rather than necessities. I am a fan of options, however I will admit that I was never compelled to actually use most tools at my disposal in any given Metal Gear game since at the end of the day I can literally go through any one of them with a tranq pistol alone (and honestly that limitation bred it's own form of challenge that is arguably satisfying enough on it's own in some way where the thought of trying other tools and weapons was pushed further to the back of my mind). PW may not have the same level of options as other entries but ya know if it did and they still didn't choose to require you to use them why bother? With how story focused the series is as well it felt less necessary to really try to learn the games further since there really isn't any incentive for it other than arbitrary ranks at the end of each game, aka bragging rights. I kinda just went through and went back to the games for just the stories. As unnecessary as folks argue PW's story is to the grand MG narrative I for one give credit to it for re-purposing world building side codec convos to tapes as that allows the fluff to stay to the side but remain constantly accessible at all times, where as earlier games had plenty of side codec convos to listen to but made most of them only able to be played within certain conditions, either within certain points of the story or by activating specific or obscure triggers (and by just going in to the codec a lot on your own time in general, which itself was a tall order when the main games have so many codec calls to begin with).
Vinjok it feeeeeels like a lot of complaints have to do with the AI in peace walker, which is probably right, it wasn’t very good in most areas. In combat it was solid, but ye, get you.
but ye that mission structure 👌👌💸
personally i cannot STAND pw, i'm glad you found more enjoyment in it than i did cause i really wanted to like it.
Peace Walker is literally for smart people.
Well i would say smart, more like bored people lol .... bored to the point of experimentation. Once you actually stop trying to just get pass the guards and start experimenting you will love the game.
When i learned how to shoot a guard in the leg, have him call for backup, then tranq him, allow the back up to come, put a magazine down to distract one of them, sneak up on the other one, slam him hold him up, run to the other guard that is reading the magazine, grab him, interrogate him, hold him up make him get on the ground, then scan the enemies to see if they are worth taking to base, i loved the game lol
But you gotta actually play the game
Everyone mad that mgsv was incomplete but forget we had mgsv back with peace walker
mgs peace walkers original version still has local coop.
I don't really agree that Peace Walker or the VR missions are the "best" Metal Gear has to offer (MGR VR Missions are pretty cool too btw.!) but I do agree that they were a fantastic inclusion and it's a bummer they never came back after 2. MGS3 always made sense to me. Subsistence had an online mode, the ape thing, a new camera, the classic MG1&2 and whatnot, it was a great package already and 4 ... Well, it never got it's revision :( I bet if they did a MGS4: [Weird name, probably starting with Sub] it would contain VR missions and probably controlable Raiden and shit. They would've gone crazy and do Metal Gear Mk.2 missions for the sake of it. It's so sad this never happened. And V never had the chance for a new version ... Getting V with a hard mode, additional missions and tools and maybe some VR missions or general time trials would be awesome.
Pretty sure you're hurting my feelings, but this is so, so done, that I don't think I'm smart enough to know.
MGS3 is my fav game of all damn time. Peace Walker fights constantly with MGSV for second place, and only takes the win most of the time due to nostalgia. But holy fuck, even I can admit that in terms of gameplay and mechanics, TPP is by far the superior game. But the story being such pigeon shit really hurts it. Imo 3 was perfect. I can see why the exclusion of VR missions would knock it down some for some people, but I adore that game. If Peace Walker was a console game tho, that would easily be the best game of all damn time. I like to lump PW and TPP together, as GZ was only 3 months after PW, and after Venom awakens, it is just PW on crack, for a console. I love it. But still, something about Snake Eater just took my heart n will never let it go, n I'm fine with that.
I definitely agree that mgs pw is the Best. I've always loved it
My TOP 5 MGS favs MGS3MGSPWMGS1MGSPOMGS2
I didn't always agree with you but still a great video!
07:31 I've heard that song before, what's it called again?
Mambo No. 5 by Lou Bega
The fucking codec call...
God damn I need to find a PlayStation and get vr missions again