NCAA definition: A fair fly ball (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that can be caught by an infielder *with ordinary effort*, when first and second or first, second and third bases are occupied before two are out. (Emphasis mine)
@@strongestnattyever-videos2247eh I mean you could make that argument. It says with ordinary effort. If he played it correctly he could have made it a lot easier. So in your case you could say a player misplaying an ordinary fly ball could negate an infield fly rule? I just can’t get behind that.
@@lscales6131 its just a matter of whether or not you considered the fielder made an "ordinary effort". That is a pure judgement call. Not sure how deep the fielder was playing but I personally think that if the fielder was set up under the pop fly and just waiting for the ball to get there I would consider it "ordinary effort" but because he had to B line it over to make the play I would not consider it "ordinary effort" again its a pure judgement call though. Hope I was not confusing.
The only player who could have caught the ball with ordinary effort was the pitcher, who is not considered an infielder. I can see why the umps made this call (though for me it's still an infield fly).
This was a good no call by the crew. You can see the third base umpire look to his crewmates when the coach started pleading for the infield fly rule to be invoked, and he shakes his head. It's like another umpire asked him if he had infield fly. If you look at the camera angle from the press box, where you can see the entire diamond while the ball is in the air, none of the umpires indicates infield fly. Additional analysis of the video tells me that it would have been a double play in any case. If an infield fly had been called, the batter would have been out and the runner going from second to third would have still been out on the tag. The umpires were very patient with the coach. But once he ran the stop sign, he had to go.
If infield fly was called dude the runner wouldn’t have been running from 2nd to 3rd. The only reason he left the base and ran was bc the umpires didn’t call the infield fly therefore he was “forced” to take 3rs
Two things: Great call by the crew. They knew EXACTLY what was going on. That pop up was not able to be caught with ordinary effort. This would not have happened if the UNC batter would have driven the ball and not hit a dinky, weak pop up.
John Brammer is a former professional umpire. Here is a clip of him ejecting Ryne Sandberg with the Triple A Iowa Cubs: ua-cam.com/video/lRiX-UqbLN8/v-deo.html
The runner on 2nd should have stayed on base, either way (if the infield fly rule was called or not). The ball was thrown back to 2nd first...so there was no force play at 3rd (and he was tagged out). Even if the infield fly rule was called...stay on 2nd. Right?
By the second baseman, correct. However, the pitcher could have gotten to it with little to no effort. The pitcher is a fielder after the ball is thrown towards home plate. Also, the reason it looked like non-ordinary effort was because the second baseman broke to the ball late and was moving away from the direction the ball was hit. We have to look at the whole big picture here.
@@gcA158 I am looking at the big picture. No way that ordinary effort for a pitcher. And a pitcher is an infielder with the responsibility of delivering a pitch to a batter. There are three outs and six infielders. Both catcher and pitcher are infielders. As Casey Stengel said,” You can look it up.
@@humdinger7723 Still scratching my head on that one. ESPN and Tennessee have never had a good relationship. Ex Arkansas player, Eklund, not very bright!!
@@QuiltHoncho I believe you are right. Haven’t watched on a big screen yet. One of my favorite words is “ bullshit.” Check out the George Carlin bit on All American bullshit. He says some people are stunningly full of bullshit. People who are simultaneously adamant and ignorant suck. I could be wrong, but I think Jeff and his crew got this wrong. Then again, who am I to judge one of the best division one umpires in America? My evidence is the angle of F-4’s glove. If you are going to catch a fly ball your glove is not in the position he had his glove in.
@@johnmerritt6670 you are on the wrong site. We are trying to become better umpires and learn rules. All baseball fans should care if the call was vorrdct.
A key part to the rule that most people forget is "routine or ordinary effort". A head first dive is not ordinary effort and negates the IFF. Correct no call by this crew.
@@LiquidLuke you must be living in an alternate testify. Pitcher has his momentum going forward and would need to come down off the mound and catch a fly ball behind him. Not ordinary effort.
@@rayray4192 agreed ray........this was not an IFF(not high enough and not ordinary effort to catch it) , however the argument could be made for an intentional dropped ball. But, I hate the IFF Rule and love that a double play happened here. Never really understood why the rules were changed just to "protect" baserunners. Outs are good
Not only doesn't the announcer know the rule regarding IFF, but he doesn't even know what the manager is arguing about. If you read the manager's lips, he is saying that it should have been ruled an "intentionally dropped" ball, which he has a legitimate case for. Had the umpires ruled the ball was intentionally dropped, the BR would be out and the ball would be immediately dead, so runners would return to 1st and 2nd (no DP).
Looking at the position of the fielder’s glove makes me think he swatted the ball down to the ground. It’s illegal and an attempt to gain an unfair advantage. Immediate dead ball, batter out, return all runners back to time of pitch base. I watched the video with no audio. Plate umpire Jeff Hendrix is a quality person. He and I searched for an umpire’s wallet at the end of a three day training camp. He didn’t have to do it. Umpire placed his wallet on top of his roof while he loaded his car, and then drove off. We never found the wallet. Impressive when a division 1 umpire is looking in bushes for the wallet of someone he doesn’t know. Jeff is a great umpire and a great man. I’m watching on a phone so the screen is small. I’ll watch later on a big screen T.V. Appears to be a blown call but I could be wrong. Head coach knows it’s not an infield fly. Ball must be allowed to drop to the ground before it’s touched unless you are going to actually try to catch the fly ball. Looks like an intentionally dropped fly ball.
Actually the infielder that could have caught the ball with ordinary effort does not have to be the one who attempted it. So the Pitcher could have caught it or had the second baseman broke immediately he could have. The umpire blew it and the fact that the crew gave the coach so much leeway before tossing him shows they knew they blew it. But eventually they had no choice but to toss him. The rule is pretty easy and the reaction of the crew is pretty conclusive.......
@@GibsonsOfNewBern you are incredibly wrong. Plate umpire Jeff Hendrix didn’t want to eject the head coach from an important game. The importance of the game is taken into consideration. What is conclusive is you are ignorant.
The rulebook definition of Infield Fly says the umpire "shall immediately declare 'Infield Fly' for the benefit of the runners." However, sometimes they do not. As in the 2008 World Series game, there may be doubt as to whether the ball was catchable by an infielder with ordinary effort. Google is a beast. It does have to be announced. Not being a smartass, just educating folks. I am wrong also sometimes.
@@gcA158 your attitude is great, and you are right. What if you just aren’t sure until very late? It’s a problem. Doesn’t happen often. Also, wind is a mitigating factor, but sun is not. It’s an infield fly whether you forgot your sunglasses or not.
Looks to me that the fielder missed this pop up ON PURPOSE. Whether or not it is ruled an infield fly DOES make a difference. If ruled an infield fly, batter is out, and the runner running to 3rd is also out on the tag. There would be NO force at 2nd base. However, if the umpire DID NOT call an infield fly, BUT he DID rule that the fielder flubbed the catch, on purpose, batter is OUT and all runners are returned to the base they were occupying at the time of the pitch.
NCAA definition: A fair fly ball (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that can be caught by an infielder *with ordinary effort*, when first and second or first, second and third bases are occupied before two are out. (Emphasis mine)
Right, so not an infield fly here, due to this not being an ordinary effort (he had to slide to get to it, and still couldn’t).
@@strongestnattyever-videos2247eh I mean you could make that argument. It says with ordinary effort. If he played it correctly he could have made it a lot easier. So in your case you could say a player misplaying an ordinary fly ball could negate an infield fly rule? I just can’t get behind that.
@@lscales6131 its just a matter of whether or not you considered the fielder made an "ordinary effort". That is a pure judgement call. Not sure how deep the fielder was playing but I personally think that if the fielder was set up under the pop fly and just waiting for the ball to get there I would consider it "ordinary effort" but because he had to B line it over to make the play I would not consider it "ordinary effort" again its a pure judgement call though. Hope I was not confusing.
The only player who could have caught the ball with ordinary effort was the pitcher, who is not considered an infielder. I can see why the umps made this call (though for me it's still an infield fly).
"with ordinary effort" which that was obviously not.
This was a good no call by the crew. You can see the third base umpire look to his crewmates when the coach started pleading for the infield fly rule to be invoked, and he shakes his head. It's like another umpire asked him if he had infield fly. If you look at the camera angle from the press box, where you can see the entire diamond while the ball is in the air, none of the umpires indicates infield fly. Additional analysis of the video tells me that it would have been a double play in any case. If an infield fly had been called, the batter would have been out and the runner going from second to third would have still been out on the tag. The umpires were very patient with the coach. But once he ran the stop sign, he had to go.
If infield fly was called dude the runner wouldn’t have been running from 2nd to 3rd. The only reason he left the base and ran was bc the umpires didn’t call the infield fly therefore he was “forced” to take 3rs
@@aaronbalakey5377 you are correct. Also, petulant children refer to others as “ dude.”
@@rayray4192 it was supposed to say “if infield fly was called HERE” idk where ‘dude’ came from…
it did look more like a bloop; not a fly ball
Don't you just love announcers that have no clue on the rule and don't bother looking it up.
this ^ it just fuels arm chair umpires on weekends for guys just starting out.
Two things:
Great call by the crew. They knew EXACTLY what was going on. That pop up was not able to be caught with ordinary effort.
This would not have happened if the UNC batter would have driven the ball and not hit a dinky, weak pop up.
Just out of curiosity, if they are playing this game at UNC, why is UNC batting first?
It’s a regional game so they might host the tournament but they don’t always get home team
John Brammer is a former professional umpire. Here is a clip of him ejecting Ryne Sandberg with the Triple A Iowa Cubs: ua-cam.com/video/lRiX-UqbLN8/v-deo.html
It IS NOT AN INFIELD FLY. Broadcasters need to turn to a rules expert rather than speculating. This is not ordinary effort PERIOD.
Whether IFF or not, R2 is out at 3rd.
If he would have stayed at 2nd he would have been protected and still at 2nd!
The runner on 2nd should have stayed on base, either way (if the infield fly rule was called or not). The ball was thrown back to 2nd first...so there was no force play at 3rd (and he was tagged out). Even if the infield fly rule was called...stay on 2nd. Right?
Just get rid of tge infield fly to rule altogether, then no "judgement" is needed
Ive said this for years. Why do runners need protection on a lousy popup? Double plays are fun
announcers don't know the rules
not reasonable effort
By the second baseman, correct. However, the pitcher could have gotten to it with little to no effort. The pitcher is a fielder after the ball is thrown towards home plate. Also, the reason it looked like non-ordinary effort was because the second baseman broke to the ball late and was moving away from the direction the ball was hit. We have to look at the whole big picture here.
@@gcA158 I am looking at the big picture. No way that ordinary effort for a pitcher. And a pitcher is an infielder with the responsibility of delivering a pitch to a batter. There are three outs and six infielders. Both catcher and pitcher are infielders. As Casey Stengel said,” You can look it up.
Initially I thought it should have been called IFF rule but after watching the play over I think they got it right.
I couldn't care less about if they got it wrong or right. I'm a Tennessee fan.
@@johnmerritt6670 isn't the entire Vols team suspended for banned substances...kidding of course.
@@humdinger7723 Still scratching my head on that one. ESPN and
Tennessee have never had a good relationship. Ex Arkansas player, Eklund, not very bright!!
@@QuiltHoncho I believe you are right. Haven’t watched on a big screen yet. One of my favorite words is “ bullshit.” Check out the George Carlin bit on All American bullshit. He says some people are stunningly full of bullshit. People who are simultaneously adamant and ignorant suck. I could be wrong, but I think Jeff and his crew got this wrong. Then again, who am I to judge one of the best division one umpires in America? My evidence is the angle of F-4’s glove. If you are going to catch a fly ball your glove is not in the position he had his glove in.
@@johnmerritt6670 you are on the wrong site. We are trying to become better umpires and learn rules. All baseball fans should care if the call was vorrdct.
A key part to the rule that most people forget is "routine or ordinary effort". A head first dive is not ordinary effort and negates the IFF. Correct no call by this crew.
The pitcher could have caught the ball with reasonable effort.
@@LiquidLuke you must be living in an alternate testify. Pitcher has his momentum going forward and would need to come down off the mound and catch a fly ball behind him. Not ordinary effort.
@@QuiltHoncho pitcher had no chance to catch the fly ball with ordinary effort.
@@rayray4192 agreed ray........this was not an IFF(not high enough and not ordinary effort to catch it) , however the argument could be made for an intentional dropped ball. But, I hate the IFF Rule and love that a double play happened here. Never really understood why the rules were changed just to "protect" baserunners. Outs are good
@@mptr1783 the goal is equity. In other words not favorable rulings to the defense or offense.
Not only doesn't the announcer know the rule regarding IFF, but he doesn't even know what the manager is arguing about. If you read the manager's lips, he is saying that it should have been ruled an "intentionally dropped" ball, which he has a legitimate case for. Had the umpires ruled the ball was intentionally dropped, the BR would be out and the ball would be immediately dead, so runners would return to 1st and 2nd (no DP).
Looking at the position of the fielder’s glove makes me think he swatted the ball down to the ground. It’s illegal and an attempt to gain an unfair advantage. Immediate dead ball, batter out, return all runners back to time of pitch base. I watched the video with no audio. Plate umpire Jeff Hendrix is a quality person. He and I searched for an umpire’s wallet at the end of a three day training camp. He didn’t have to do it. Umpire placed his wallet on top of his roof while he loaded his car, and then drove off. We never found the wallet. Impressive when a division 1 umpire is looking in bushes for the wallet of someone he doesn’t know. Jeff is a great umpire and a great man. I’m watching on a phone so the screen is small. I’ll watch later on a big screen T.V. Appears to be a blown call but I could be wrong. Head coach knows it’s not an infield fly. Ball must be allowed to drop to the ground before it’s touched unless you are going to actually try to catch the fly ball. Looks like an intentionally dropped fly ball.
Getting ejected in the 3rd with 1-0 game is not a smart move. Let it go. It's too early to be dying on a hill like that.
And they come back to win their region yessir
You are right.
@@Panderson17 good ball club. Very good coach.
Clearly should have called the rule. It is what it was designed for.
Were you on the announcing crew?
Once again the TV commentators have no idea what the rule is and chatter on about irrelevant stuff. Jason Phillips Jr has it exactly right
Actually the infielder that could have caught the ball with ordinary effort does not have to be the one who attempted it. So the Pitcher could have caught it or had the second baseman broke immediately he could have. The umpire blew it and the fact that the crew gave the coach so much leeway before tossing him shows they knew they blew it. But eventually they had no choice but to toss him. The rule is pretty easy and the reaction of the crew is pretty conclusive.......
@@GibsonsOfNewBern you are delusional. No way that’s ordinary effort for the pitcher. You do realize the pitcher is on a mound, right?
@@GibsonsOfNewBern you are incredibly wrong. Plate umpire Jeff Hendrix didn’t want to eject the head coach from an important game. The importance of the game is taken into consideration. What is conclusive is you are ignorant.
infield fly does not have to be announced, especially at this level
The rulebook definition of Infield Fly says the umpire "shall immediately declare 'Infield Fly' for the benefit of the runners." However, sometimes they do not. As in the 2008 World Series game, there may be doubt as to whether the ball was catchable by an infielder with ordinary effort.
Google is a beast. It does have to be announced. Not being a smartass, just educating folks. I am wrong also sometimes.
@@gcA158 your attitude is great, and you are right. What if you just aren’t sure until very late? It’s a problem. Doesn’t happen often. Also, wind is a mitigating factor, but sun is not. It’s an infield fly whether you forgot your sunglasses or not.
@@gcA158 never call an infield fly until it reaches its apex. Be careful with the word “ immediately.”
Looks to me that the fielder missed this pop up ON PURPOSE. Whether or not it is ruled an infield fly DOES make a difference. If ruled an infield fly, batter is out, and the runner running to 3rd is also out on the tag. There would be NO force at 2nd base. However, if the umpire DID NOT call an infield fly, BUT he DID rule that the fielder flubbed the catch, on purpose, batter is OUT and all runners are returned to the base they were occupying at the time of the pitch.
When umpires don’t understand the rules and make it about themselves. They should never be allowed to umpire a game again