Will A 2020 KTM TPI Bike Bump Start With No Battery??
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- Опубліковано 17 кві 2020
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Many of us have wondered if the KTM TPI dirt bikes will start on a dead battery. This is even more critical than the kickstarter issue. We test this today and the answer may surprise you. It surprised me. Both of the bikes shown in this video are 2020 KTM TPI bikes. XC-W (EXC), and the XC bike.
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A dead battery is different than no battery - It would be interesting to see how the 300 does with a battery installed but discharged below 10 volts
Yea, but if you really had a dead/bad battery you could just disconnect it in a pinch. Like you I still want to see the video though.
@@adaycj why the heck would ya, it will act like a capacitor once bike is push started
@@Lewiseyers Not all batteries are just "dead" (chemically depleted). Some are internally shorted. I still get your point. In the big ole world of "what if". What if the battery was run dead while taking a lunch break, spinning the starter after ingesting water, or after the 37th time helping your kid down a tough trail. It starts really sluggish the last start and then you stall it. Now you are at 10v, will it push start? Or do I need to take off the seat and find my capacitor.
if you add cap to your bike, it will allways start, no matter of battery condition unless contact poles of battery are physically shorted.
@@Lewiseyers thats not how that works lol
1:17 me trying to get my 50cc derbi started at middle of winter in finland to get in school on time.😂😂😂
Tehiterpi
Näkeehä jonii tääläki
Täälläki mopojonneja
relatable lol
Fiilaan
That view of the mountains from your house WOW
Dogs Bollocks which is the case anywhere you live. City, suburb, rural, it all was wildlife habitat at some point in time.
@@fredmeebley shut up!!
I like how your getting your sons into the videos, nice that the entire family is supporting this! Also, using your link I just ordered the capacitor for my '18 250 tpi, $20 for shipping seems high but it'll beat pushing a dead bike back to the truck...
Great Video Kyle...this is the kind of content that I would love to see more of!
I almost ordered one for my XC based off of Tokyo Offroad's video. I didn't know it wasn't required on the XC. Thanks for saving me the cash and headache of installing.
I’m just jealous how effortlessly he does a standing 180 on the street. Still trying to get that figured out on the dirt
James Humberstone not that hard, just lay the bike pretty flat. You’ll get to it ;)
@@justinsavs Yep. Just make sure the neighbors cars are out of the way......
Tip the bike lock the knee get some
haha
When I read this comment I thought he was going to pivot turn with the front tire in the air. You got this on dirt bro, just tip the bike to the side and give it the gas
Super-pumped for this sweepstakes! Just traded up from a Honda dual sport to a 350xcf-w. One of those two strokes would be SAWEET to add to the garage!
Love your videos.. Always showing us stuff to better our rides.. Thank you
Great video! I’ll stick to my carburetor and kick starter thank you very much.
Sad you need to bump start instead of kicking them.. KTM should have left the kickstart on all their bikes at the price they sell them. Need to buy extra gadget to start with no battery, and still no kickstart.... I like 2 stroke dirtbikes for their simplicity, now they are getting more complicated. Tpi : no go to me. Great informative video Kyle!
The kickstart adds more weight than you’d think. I’ve owned several e-star KTMs over the years and haven’t needed a kick...but I also take great care of my bikes, batteries, etc.
Bring kick starters and carbs back. Dirt bikes need to be more simple, not more complex.
@@carlatamanczyk3891 just cuz you can't afford a new tech bike doesn't mean we should all suffer cuz of it lol
@@peterswanson3446 carb or tpi, they are the same price. There is no signigicant advantage of the tpi over the carb. Mixing gas, play with jetting, not a big deal...
@@cadwarrior perhaps not... but here in California it means the difference between riding on the streets...or not
Late to the party - but EXC TPI models do not run without battery on idle. When riding and revving it you can kind of run it. The electrical has been a weak point on the TPI bikes since the start - some older models had a ground issue which developed under competition conditions (aka TPI bog issue). On some of the models the stator was not capable of charging the battery and running other electrical reliably. I have rescued a few TPI bikes with my Freeride 350 (2012) xD
Thanks Kyle, I looking at buying the 2020 KTM 300 XCW so this will come in handy!!
Very cool experiment - I’ll never own one but good to know when out with the new pumpkins in my area.
Kyle's going stir crazy due to self isolation rules. Next week he'll be fitting a V8 to his ride on mower. 👍
Great information. Makes me want to upgrade my 09 xcw for a 2020
So helpful man! Especially for when we get in those situations. Thank you so much
You need a thing-a-ma-bob in your backpack. I carry one if the bat voltage goes to low or dead battery. It goes in line with your positive and negative bat cables. It balances out the voltage, so the fuel injection works. Forgot whats it called of course. Its some sort of capacitor. A guy was making them on an enduro forum. They work. I disconnected my battery and was able to run the bike of its stator. Would not run with out it.
👍😎 Excellent info. I was under the impression they wouldnt start. Thank you for sharing. Man what a workout.
Funny that some will and other won't
Interesting video. I’ve been wondering this since these TPI bikes came out
You need a pathway for current to flow, completely removing or disconnecting a battery is taking away that current pathway. By adding a capacitor you gave it a pathway. You could do the same thing by connecting the generator wires directly to the ECU and grounding it.
Great video. Very informative. You work very hard.
There are also cheap portable jump starters available. They are essentially lithium ion battery banks like you would charge your phone with (and most of them have USB charging ports). It's something extra to carry compared to the capacitor but it will allow you to use the magic button instead of bump starting, and most will start all but the biggest heavy duty trucks as well so extra peace of mind at the trailhead for your other ticket home.
I hooked up a similar capacitor set up on my 350xcfw. So far I have not had to use it but I like to know I can if needed out on the trail.
I’m going with a YZ250X over all this techno mumbo jumbo. Keep it simple, kick start, carb, easy to fix, and will still be running in 20 years.
If Yamaha made the 250x with e-start & 6gears they would change the enduro market. They're awesome bikes!
mips exactly. If yamaha made a 300 enduro specific yz model with SSS forks, e start, 6 gears, 18” rear wheel. It would literally be a slap in KTMs face.
Even if they just add e-start I would be buying one tomorrow. Yamaha is just so bulletproof and the suspension is dialed. It’s cool that aftermarket E-start is an option for the yz250x now but it’s still some what cost prohibitive.
a google user the suspension is so dialed. My 2015 yz250 I had is so good even compared to the new ktms.
But they don’t...2020 250 XCW TPI, best woods bike ever created hands down.
Its very informative bro. I wonder if same principle works for all ktm series without kickstart? Thanks.
Good info. Capacitor is a must do add on it seems.
Always like your videos and reviews. Thx
Thanks Kyle, very informative. Way to get your sprint training in
Awesome video! I picked up a 2020 TX300i and wondered with the oil pump what happens if the battery craps out. I’m assuming the TX would be the same as the XC?
You can wire up your own capacitor for like $5 if you know how to hold a soldering iron.
i love them tire selves!! I'm gonna make some!!
Awesome tip Kyle! Thank you sir!
I wired up some capacitors last year after my 2015 350-EXC left me stranded on the trail. My battery broke internally and would not provide the EFI with some power. I just keep it under the seat
Learned the hard way that a 16 350xc-f won't run without the battery by cracking my subframe (hammering some whoops and found a hidden tree stump) where the ground bolts to and she started backfiring like a dragon and wouldn't stay running anytime I hit a bump lol. Noticed the crack by seeing the arc flash when I tried to start it with the seat off.
I think that XC is considered a long distance full on competition machine, meaning that you can get stranded in the middle of nowhere and therefore have the backup capacitor in place to get you out of trouble. XC models always came with better components as well. Such as bigger tank, re-valved motocross forks, linkage, SX model frame, SX model CNC machined triple clamps etc.
And the XC-W is still competition machine but more focused on trail riding (shorter distances) and therefore no need to have the backup.
Outstanding vid and great advice too. looking at buying an XC-w after bloody lock down. Cheers from NZ
Check out a beta as well.
Get a sherco
Thanks Kyle..... good to know. Well done 👍
To start i ride a tagged xr600 and 2000 cr250 but it seems like adding a capacitor, a type of battery, is simply adding another failure point but i guess if the capacitor fails there are no additional consequences to the electrical
A capacitor holds a charge kind of like a battery, but with very little power. I guess its enough to keep the bike running with the stator powering it to run the injector. You can open the injector with a 9v battery also.
That xcw is a very good looking bike
We learned this the hard way on our 450sx snow bikes.
I was not expecting there to be a difference between the two.
That is why I tested them!
Looks like your knee is healed up.mint nice i saw your video of mobies braces
Really like the way this video was shot!
I notice that air filter is a bit dirty... Check out pc racing filter skins. You can oil and clean them and they make a big difference.
Would love to see this done with the new tbi bikes
Nice Video. No longer have to loose sleep on this question
Thanks for the heads up 👍✌️
that is what you call a battery drived engine, since it has an ECU and ECU will only work if you have a battery, that is why the bike did not start all the way, but there is trick where you won't need a battery anymore in order for the engine to start, just make some changes in the ECU, charger relay and some cases may include the stator coil.
Can’t see why it wouldn’t help on other efi off-road bikes too, wr250r and crf250l spring to mind.
Nice view of the mountains.
So do the Husqvarna's FE range have a capacitor to enabling starting without a battery?
Great knowledge to pass on - thanks - kinda makes me a bit pissed with KTM........what were they thinking??
hi. can you kindly do a video on how you made the 180 slide turn.
Really interesting. Thank you. What about a 4 stroke like a Husqy FE 501? I put kick starts into my 2016 and 2019 FE 501's. Do they need an aftermarket capacitor to kick without a battery? cheers
Have had all makes and most models 2 and 4 stroke keep on eye on the beta 300rr for 3 years got the 18 300rr race best bike I’ve ridden didn’t even have to get used to it climbs everything even stopping mid hill just for fun what’s even more fun is starting it on cold mornings embarrasses everyone else
Great info! Thanks Kyle!
Thanks for the Info. Great work
01:57 - That kid looked super excited to see you!
Wish he would of tried without capacitor but + and - battery cables connected to each other to complete the circuit, with battery disconnected u have no complete circuit for bike to run off which is different than a real world senecio of totally dead battery but still hooked up completing the circuit, otherwise wise great video as always u provide inside info hard to gain from typical sources
Interesting. Thanks for the tip!
The capacitor filters the voltage allowing the ecu to do its thing.
I hate that these bikes do not have a kick start, especially with KTM’s starters notoriously going out. I’m not a fan of EFI because you have to have a battery in order for your bike to run. You can see the bikes will fire with the little bit of fuel left in the engine but will not continue to run because there is no electricity to power the fuel system.
Michael Milam I understand what you’re saying but to say that EFI bikes cannot run without a battery is not true. Almost all MX bikes are EFI and many of them have no batteries. They simply incorporate a capacitor into the harness. This was just KTM being lazy.
That was the pre-17 model 2 strokes that had issue they were fixed when the new model released. But yeah those older ones were a pita when the starters gunked up I know from experience haha
You need enough power to run the fuel pump or it won't kick start or even roll off.
Good content! Great job
We lost the battery on my buddies 2014 KTM 500 last weekend and learned this lesson the hard way. We had to shuttle a battery back to the broken down bike, but at least we were only 4-5 miles out on the trail. I bought 5 capacitors for $18.99 shipped off Amazon and wired them up. They will start my 2019 TPI bike as well as my 2016 350 XCF-W. Everyone in our group gets one for their pack, problem solved.
Bruh the 2019 ktm 300 has a kick start doesn't it??
@@JimmyJohnson7077 If you cannot bump start, the kickstart won't work either. Probably why they added capacitors
My xc-w 300 tpi erzbergrodeo has headlights. I wonder if that makes a difference?
Bought 2. One for FE501 and one for the 300.
Thanks
Kyle, thanks for the info and video. I had no idea that the 2019 KTM 300XC-w TPI would not start if the battery went dead. I just ordered the Tokyo accessory with the 9 volt battery assist after watching your video. Thanks again.
You can't even roll the 4 strokes down a hill and get them to start if the battery is dead. It needs enough voltage to run the fuel pump fast enough
Even with a capacitor? @@Bryan-Hensley
@@BushmanCanuck that's funny, I didn't own a 4 stroke back then, I do now. My KTM 350 sxf bump starts very easily but it comes with the capacitor.
@@Bryan-Hensley cool 😎, I've got a 2024 husqvarna 501...just trying to figure out what I need to avoid getting stranded.
@@BushmanCanuck I haven't tried to bump start it with no battery at all or a completely flat dead battery.
You keep that up and you'll be ready for the playoffs!
great info to know, thanks for the video.
How about do the test with a dead battery rather than disconnected? Is the capacitor necessary on the Xcw?
Cool video ...wish they didn't get rid of the kick start.
Kyle, why did you choose to put wrap around barkbusters on the new bike?
What gear are you using to try and start it? Usually 2/3 works best, but I can't say much regarding the TPI aspect of it.
Great tip. Videos like this are good to see before you’re “Up a creek bed without a battery.” 😋
This videos is precisely why I purchased a Yz250x.
Which of these among these bike is easier to ride for a adult bigginer?
Can i use it in my Husqvarna 701? i have had dead batteries on the trail and had to disassembly my usb charger to connect using that cable to a running bike
Do you know if the KTM 690 has the compactor that maintains the necessary voltage to bump start the bike and maintain a running bike?
I going to have to check my fe 350 also
Plenty of used ktm capacitors on ebay. All the efi sxf bikes have had them for years
Hold the start button when trying to bump it, itll go. I do it with mine everytime I ride.
Is this for the XC-W's? I have a 2019 and have always been a tad weary. Though more the two+ handfuls of rides in and I have yet to have any issues.
Great video. Now I'm worried. I have a 2017 KTM 350 XCF & wondering if it will bump start with a dead battery? does anyone know? Thanks!
Super useful video - thanks Kyle! Do you know if this will work with a KTM 4-stroke? I have a 2020 KTM 500 EXC-F. I have little electrical knowledge, so I don't know if this is only a 2-stroke fix. Many thanks
I had to push start my drz 400 E with broken valves for an entire year, with electric start it would take about 10 15 minutes of trying
what about the oil injection will that still work off of the capacitor
Yo that xcw air filter looking clean 4:11 😂😂
was just about to comment saying the same thing. thats rotten mate haha
Disconecting the battery opens the circuit so the power generated by the magneto does'nt reach the fuel/oil pumps, si no mix is injected in the cylinder. Spark plug burns the left over for a lillte while, that's why the bike fires a few shots and then die cause it goes dry around the plug.
Capacitors close the circuit so all the electricals can run on the magneto. A dead battery still keeps the circuit closed; power of the magneto can still runs trough the whole circuit.
Dont know though if after a a fews minutes ride the capacitor could store enough power to sart the bike with the starter?
I have been making these units for my ktms since the first efi four stroke came out in 2012 but obviously tokio offroad has actually marketed them good on him.
Can you share the details? I.e. capacitor size/type? (Sorry if I buggered the lingo up)
@@doggatas Electrolytic Capacitor was 40 volt 10,000 farad
And what is the factory capacitor which goes on the XC and not on the Xcw bikes, have you figured it out?
Just a question: do you know if it is possible to put the sixdays Spain plastics on a ktm exc 2020?
Interesting. I’m planning on pulling the trigger on a 250 XCW this week. But this may change my mind... That’s horrible. No kick start and no way of starting it without buying the capacitor. Is there a hack to it? I’m sure eventually someone will come up with something a little less expensive. Geez! Not that they’re really high priced but all that stuff adds up.
On a side note, found your channel last week because I’m getting back into riding and wanted a KTM. I have been binge watching like a mad man. Love your content and you’re great with your boys. 👍 Thank you.
It's a 30 or 40 dollar part...Also not that hard to make on your own for a few dollars if you look up the parts. Alternatively look at the XC model. 40 dollars shouldn't be a breaking point of getting a bike lol. I think everyone agrees that no kickstart was a bad move by ktm but these are pretty damn reliable bikes now. Also the lithium ion batteries are stout. I haven't charged mine since late 2018 and it still has good voltage. (Stored for the winter too)
Not a breaking point but BS nonetheless. Lol. I’m sure someone will dial it in to a 5 dollar capacitor and a couple of wires. Point being, it’s nickel and dime stuff from KTM.
Seems to be a very odd cost cutting choice for KTM to remove the capacitor from the bike model that's most likely to go further away from help.
Team Orange do some weird stuff.
Case in point 4:58, EFI bike, but have to keep the engine running by hand.... It's 2020 people!
gotta jump on the rear end of bike before letting clutch out to push start it. Gotta stop rear tire from sliding.
So interesting, Leaning some tip from you thanks.
Are those fork wraps available? I didn't see them on your site
A Capacitor is essentially the same thing as a battery, it just stores energy in a different way as a battery. Batteries store energy with the use of chemicals and a capacitor stores energy by using an electrical field. So by adding a capacitor to your bike is the same as adding another small battery in parallel with your main battery.
Was gonna comment the same thing
Not the same but similar in when a capacitor is connected to a battery, the charge is developed on each side of the capacitor. Also, there will be a flow of current in the circuit for some time and then it decreases to zero quickly when used, unlike a “good” battery. Goes to show you engineers are not riders or else they would have solved this issue before production.
Honestly, I don't know what that kit costs - but if you're an XCW rider, that seems like exceptionally cheap insurance in case something goes really really wrong.
This good on 4Ts as well?
Ran the battery dead on my 2018 Husqvarna FE350, and it would not bump start. Tried it several times on a steep hill. Dead battery, TPI, no kick starter = screwed. I assume the capacitor will allow me to bump start it, so I'm ordering one. One question: Any thoughts on whether it would have bump started with the battery removed?