"This Is Why WoW PvP Is So Bad" | Venruki Reacts
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
- Original video: • This is why WoW PvP is...
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"same 300 ppl on 20 chars" - thats the best wow pvp summary;)
On 20 each you dumb dumb. Very smart you are Student, indeed hehe.
True
true
probably overshot it tbh, more like 100 per region (region as in NA, EU, Russia)
And half of them are lowering their ratings to sell carries.
That league video was 10x easier to follow. Ven doesn't know what's happening because he doesn't play the game. Basically though, a button is pressed, it does meaningful damage, and the ability isn't spammed 30 times over 5 minutes for someone to eventually die. Button is pressed, dmg goes out, move/dodge and wait on cooldown or use one of your other 3 abilities. Your positioning in team fights matters MORE than just spamming your abilities as fast as you can. That's hard for current wow players to understand. When a spell went off in the league video, I could tell who it was aimed at, and if it connected with the target. You cannot say the same watching wow pvp. As mentioned, everything in wow cleaves, abilities are SPAMMED for 5-10 minutes in an arena match and eventually someone falls over. Why? Not sure, someone probably didn't have one of their 40-50 abilities up at that specific time. Which button? We will never know unless you have thousands of hours playing the game yourself. Easy to follow? Yea.... nah.
Wow is easy to follow. If your eyes are that slow in keeping up with the animation and the key being highlighted that's being pressed, that's a you problem. Old people seriously gotta stop thinking the game is hard to follow because your brains are slowing down with age. All games are easy to follow
@@Boss-ot1iy Sure some can find it easy to follow. But the comparison to league was laughable. If you don't see that, then you are delusional. So Ven can follow everything happening in wow, but can't tell what's happening in league? Laughable comparison imo. I literally laughed out loud. I play wow, but to compare the two is an absolute joke. If wow is so easy to follow, record you playing a game, and showing it to a family member for a "reaction", without giving them a play by play. Then ask them what happened. This will open your eyes a little bit to the actual issue.
@tj8606 That's literally the same with any game. When you play games like Val, CS, etc, people tend not to understand what's happening with 0 knowledge about it. What kind of idea was that that you came up with? That goes without saying. Even doing something like a jiggle peak or counter strafing, and anyone with 0 knowledge would wonder why someone did that. Good lord, with you wow people and your mindset with thinking wow is complex. The objective for wow arena is actually extremely simple, too. Wow has more abilities, but they're simple: cc, defensive, offensive, and movement. Didn't take me long to understand the game when I got into it in Dragonflight, and I haven't played for 2 years by that point (cause SL sucked), and a tiny bit in BFA, and I was gone since Wrath. Even starting from scratch in Wrath was simple. Skill expression and ceiling in wow is lower than actual competitive games, and playing arena literally requires common sense as map awareness, and knowledge is almost useless (the only thing you can do with a map los and other stuff that requires lock gates etc). There's no avoiding abilities, outside of LoSing. Game is simple. The big reason why people don't play is simple: no money, no big player base, and it's very old. For other people that don't care and just want an enjoyable gaming experience, yall are toxic and push away those types of people. The community is the biggest reason this game isn't as big as it could be.
@@Boss-ot1iy When someone is playing CS/Valorant/other games, I can tell what is going on. They don't have 2 targets, shooting a bullet randomly at a target behind them at their "focus target". They shoot where they are pointed, it's easier to understand and follow for an OUTSIDER (the people who we want to ultimately try and join the game so it can grow).
As far as the toxic community being an issue, I agree with that. Weren't you claiming people who couldn't follow the game were just getting "old" literally 2 posts ago?
I'm simply saying, test your theory. Show a family member a game of wow, and ask them what happened. There is always stuff in ANY game that veteran players will understand that an outsider wouldn't understand. The question is, can the outsider follow what is happening? IF YES, they may find something appealing about the game, and may find a reason to play, thus the game GROWING. IF NO, chances are slim they are going to be like "fuck yea, lemme play that game".
The idea that wow is "old" is also invalid imo. Are CoD, Battlefield, ect old? They come out with a new game as often as WoW has a new expansion. Issue isn't the games age, it's the fact that watching it, no one wants to play it because they can't follow it. No matter how much YOU may understand it. An outsider has NO CLUE what is going on. You have macros to cast spells at any of 3 targets, don't have to face the target for many of them (not saying this is an issue, simply showing how it's hard for an uninformed outsider to even follow what's going on in any capacity, and less likely to play).
the funniest part is that ive played wow pvp since 07 and cant follow whats going on lmfao yet i dont play league and could 100% tell whats going on. anyone saying thats a me problem is major coping. ive even been 2400 in wow arena. still couldnt tell u shit about whats going on when watching it. its a complete joke
A high skillcap in PvP games/modes is great and good. But it's bad when you have a way to high entry level for new players and that is the case in WoW PvP.
You have to set up your addons/interface, farm gear, learn dozens if not hundreds of abilities, have like 40 keybinds and then get stomped for a hundred hours or more until you are at the point where you got some basic skill and maybe can finally have some fun.
It should be no surprise to anyone that people are not willing to spend their precious freetime on something like this.
Not to mention the incredibly toxic PvP community that makes it impossible to form teams if you don't have any kind of prior expereince. And while solo-shuffle exists, it's not that much better there either.
Learning PvP in WoW is an absolute slog and I can 100% empathize with everyone who is not willing to waste their time on this player-unfriendly expereince that's not respecting of their time at all.
100%. I'm a former original wow pvper, from back in 2004/2005/2006, got rank 13/14 in the original pvp system. I grinded for HUNDREDS of hours back then. And I NEVER touch pvp these days. You're either a knows-everything tryhard edgelord, or you just get FARMED by the other people you play against who ARE tryhard edgelords.
If you want pvp, do not do it in this game. It's bad.
As someone who has never faced the lvl of difficulty in jumping into PvP that you and others have faced, I will say I would be okay if they removed most macro capability from rated PvP environments. I've seen macros for rogues and just general arena macros provide big advantages vs those who aren't using.
@@gie5834 its not that serious. Yes that one outlaw macro you seen is a bit crazy but you only see something like that 1/1000 games
the real problem is just bloat of abilities and keybinds
You forgot about leveling every class, gearing each class, and understanding all their base buttons, as well as, pvp talent options.
Then when a new big patch comes around, you have to figure it all out again.
@@cenciqt6045 Nahh, theres another macro that im referring to that is broken AF.
i think a lot pvpers who watch these vids find it hard not to take personally. if wow is the only game you play in your free time then sure you aren't gonna see the game as dead or super hard to understand. this is the only game where i've spent more time looking for people to play with than actually playing the game lol, usually that only happens in games when you're so high rank theres barely anybody to match you up with.
a lot of streamers haven't had to go through the struggles of LFG due to them playing the game nonstop for 10+ years. because the game is so complicated, people just decide to drop group when it starts going bad. if it wasn't for solo shuffle id probably only really play chill 2s for 1800 transmog and call it a day lol
Easy solutions:
1: PvE Talent tree / PvP Talent Tree.
2: Abilities have two tool tips. E.g Ice Lance: Ice Lance deals double damage against frozen targets, "Hitting a second target for 50% (Only useable in Dungeons)"
3: Have ability 2 options to pick from. E.g 1: Ice lance 100% crits on slowed targets, 2: Ice lance hits a second target for 50% damage
4: Straight remove some spells from PvP for example how Soulstone is not allowed in rated arena/RBG.
It's so easy right. Just separate the two things.
@@raviel498 would be easy to code.
@@raviel498it is actually. Put in the work and boom you have change, but blizzard doesn’t care anymore
This is how Guild Wars PvP works and it feels MILES better than WoW. Balance it as a separate game mode. If players can pick up a totally separated battle Royale mode, they can pick up a separate PvP mode.
@@raviel498 Why? Pvp sucks and isn't even a thing that makes people sub.
I hate to say this but leg is way easier to understand than wow by far.
and it sucks.
@@icaanulWhile i don't enjoy it, stats would say otherwise.
if it was, casters wouldnt exist. Caster are literally there to allow people to follow the game.
@@lunaticmode638 dude even slap contests have casters. How they in any way show which game is more complex is beyond me.
@@slippers8000 To be fair, league is completely free and up until very recent years, it ran on every computer. That gives it a massive edge over wow. And I say this as someone who plays(ed) both, I started playing league in late season 1 back in 2010, and played wow since tbc, so I'm not really defending either.
I was part of that massive exodus of pvpers who left wow for league, which was what Asmon meant, not what Venruki said that "no pros left wow for league," no one ever talked about pros.
Venruki is really just out of touch. I’m an ex high level M+ pusher and casual PvP grinder up until SL. I can’t pinpoint where PvP went wrong, since I used to love it.
I think it’s death by a million cuts, the barrier to entry is massive.
- Learn your class and talents / CC
- Need to respec from PvE and probably have no keybinds open
- Earn gear and trinkets
- Learn other 40+ spec cooldown, CC, for counter play and for CC DRs / synergy
- Create a reasonable UI
It’s just too much. It’s impossible to tell what’s going on, you can one to zero so fast without even time to figure out what abilities were pressed.
Imo the biggest problem is nothing is transparent. Idk what’s going on when watching a game. Everything is in the UI, but the action is in the battlefield. When a game is this complicated, you need to be able to figure out what’s going on through watching characters and not watching UIs
And to add on to this, if you decide you don’t like your class, or it gets nerfed, you have to do the whole process again to try an alt.
If PvP is meant to be a competitive, equal environment then I should be able to try classes freely. But it’s way too big of a time investment.
In any other mainstream competitive game, I select another hero and play. In WoW, you level a character, keybinds, research talents, memorize buttons and rotation, and finally can begin getting stomped while you grind gear and gold.
100% PVP is WAY too fucking complex for the average player. You look at a sport like basketball or football. Highschool and the pros are playing the same game, just at different skill levels. Wow pve and pvp are two completely different games. I have friends that are KSM every season and mythic raiders that don't understand shit about PVP.
@@Tyler-lr6fqyour not getting into any raid or myhic plus without the same prerequisites needed for pvp. What are you talking about?
@@jerrydietzel2882 Not even close. Playing against NPCs is way different, especially when easy difficulties are available.
PvE has plenty of the same problems as PvP, but PvP has them far worse and more.
You can climb Mythic plus by just knowing your class well. You barely even see synergies or coordination until the top level of play. Even though you probably want addons to learn bosses, it’s a lot easier to tell what’s going on. Big boss froze and started casting a spell, or big circle appears on grown before an attack.
In PvP you need to be aware of what your teammates and your opponents can do. CC is core to the gameplay, and this just isn’t the case in raid or in lower level M+. You need to CC players to setup kills, know when enemies have defensives up, position carefully, press defensives in response to enemy actions. This is so much more demanding on both the mechanical and knowledge level than PvE
Even the problems of alts are worse. When you level you typically do dungeons or questing, and you can get a decent idea of what a class feels like. You might love it in PvE, but you hate it in PvP once you realize how it plays against other players.
I think venruki is a little wrong, but I think you are more wrong.
I think Asmon's initial statement is right though. Just because you, and other people, happen to like PvP in the game, does not diminish the truth. World of Warcraft is first and foremost an RPG, in which extreme amounts of design goes into the world and character progression. The game was never designed to spend 8 hours a day doing Dungeons or Battlegrounds/Arena over and over. This is emergent player behavior antithetical to the design of the game. The game IS a PvE game. Facts. It just happens to also allow you to fight other players.
I think most people who are looking for the experience of being competitive against other players simply just play other games that are designed for PvP. Unless they completely separate PvP from the rest of the game it will always suffer from this truth that the game is a PvE game and they do not design classes "for" PvP.
There is some hope for the future I think though, they probably gathered a lot of insight with the Plunderstorm thing and I suspect that they are going to try something similar in TWW, and who knows maybe they figure out a way to separate PvP where they can design each spec specifically for it, while being able to keep the integration of progression and the rpg.
PvP has been a major and serious part of this game since wrath. I'm surprised anyone still plays it for pve honestly.
ok but wow pvp needs improvement i love it but its so hard to get people into it with all the bullshit hoops and addons they gotta hop through
I don’t really believe addons are an issue in PVP. I think one of the biggest issues is people using third party software to kick for them.
@@Drualeaf They do play a massive part as the amount of information given is insane. Like the ability to tell when enemies use/ have their major cooldowns ready , if they have their trinket off cooldown, kick timers, defensive timers, stuff to warn you when you have certain modifiers and all the other stuff is such a huge advantage and it gets even worse if you do battleground pvp where addons basically give you full UAV support with the ability to see exact locations of non stealthed enemies as well as health % and all the previous stuff mentioned before
@@nightknight7748 yeah you have a good point there with those types of add ons. I haven’t used PVP addons since I started playing years ago.
@@Drualeaf remove that and you still have the addon that just tells you when to kick
The addons ruin the PvP, every 12 old can install addons and follow them. They will never learn to play with their own brains. There is no need to think about your next move, addons will tell you what to do.
The only reason why I log into the game is PVP (arena more specifically) and every time the game forces me to do PVE I end up cancelling my subscription.
Luckily everything we need for pvp in next xpac will be contained in pvp. No more pve for pvp! I'm very excited about this.
Also, I think A LOT more people will be participating in the new rbg game mode. Something that isn't taken into account are the many people who only play battlegrounds. There are a large number of people who like battlegrounds and dislike arena, so I'm predicting a large uptick in overall participation in comparison to DF.
Did you wven play Dragonflight? 0 pve involved in pvp gearing. Get real, grandpa...
You are playing wrong game, you should play some moba.
Amen bro
big same
One major thing I dislike about Asmongs takes is how he speaks with such blatant authority as if he's an expert on everything he talks about, even when half the time he has no clue but his hivemind chat just goes along with it because they are equally clueless.
Uncertain people tend to be over confident in order to maintain their credibility and to project a false higher knowledge and expertise above everyone else in the room. Asmongold sometimes he hits the target with his philosophical approach in certain areas but most of the time he is talking nonsense and probably he knows that too but pretending long enough can trick even those who know otherwise
@@Nemenon it’s called a cult. lol
Agreed.
I agree. Asmongold is really good at articulating topics and getting reactions out of people and playing on that with cunning enthusiasm. He never really says "ah" or "um" and he's always flowing with confidence with him talking so much like a motor mouth. He makes most reaction videos others would react to go for another 30 minutes or in some cases even an hour. He can talk longer than paint takes to dry. He has an intelligent philosophical mind, but his biggest undoing is that he can be the biggest know it all, and he's a wet blanket at times on topics that he thinks he knows better than the rest. His old persona I miss with just being a toxic wow asshole player where he used to be the "Asmongold" guy. But he's still entertaining and I enjoy watching a lot of his takes. Some are really hit and miss though and he just needs to learn to listen more and know when he's out of his depth with the knowledge of topics. It's hard to admit that when you have that god like complex (light yogami comes to mind lol based idea of justice).
Nailed it, OP.
my main issue with pvp is that you basically need a seperate keybind layout compared to high end pve.
i gave pvp many tries over the years and i never managed to really learn it properly since my brain is hardwired to tab-targetting and clicking nameplates for targetswapping and interrupting/stopping casts.
in order for me to be efficient in pvp i feel like i need custom arena target macros for all my ccs and kicks, maybe even some dmg spells. and i cba relearning all my keybinds just to play pvp remotely to the level that i do in pve.
also a completely different addon-set, weakauras, nameplates im not used to... it's just too much different from high end pve for me to be bothered to even give it a try anymore.
True, it literally takes several hours to just write arena123 macroses and figure out how to position them on ur bars for like druid or pala. And thats for dps. For healer i think its much worse. The difference between pve heal and pvp heal is drastic. So we get 30min q time. And all those 20 additional macros keybindings are useless everywhere except arena, what a joke.
Look the only difference between me and you is that i have a few focus macros for kicks and CC but i still alot of the Tab Targeting(Players only) and click nameplates here and there.
I recently hit 2100(i know thats average considered among many) and i dont even use WA's i have Omnibar but my habit to look at it is long gone and i barely look at it beside kicks lol.
Yes getting the right binds for Arena1-3/Teammates and Targeting enemies is way better to get used to in the long run but you're not required to in any form.Its not the right way to play but as you im also used to it cause its bit akward to getting used to the new targeting binds epescially since im no longer using a MMO mice those 12 buttons were helpful compare to the basic 2 i have which can kinda work for like atleast 4-6 binds in general but its something xD.
You don’t need all of that unless you’re pushing super high rating. If you’re good at nameplate swapping to kick, you’re going to be fine.
@@minorrus9807 u can pretty easily play till 1800 rating where you unlock elite set version with ret pala without any macros xD or addons
Nahh your just making it seem that complicated you can literally click party frames and get at minimum 2200 easy. Or just bind scroll up/scroll down and mouse wheel click for targeting-easy.
17:10 you were being very facetious in my opinion. the idea that seeing projectiles or melee hits land and their hp going down is harder to understand than a bunch of random buffs/debuffs that no one would ever notice without literally playing pvp for 20 years is laughable
because it is known that wow pvp doesn't have projectiles, melee hits or hp bars going down
I echo you bro. I play WoW only for PvP... I hope Blizzard listens to the basic requests... Saddles, Bracket ratings of RBGs, Seasonal titles for RBGs...sigh they never listen to us...
Bro the last person blizzard should listen to is some loser rbg player, you def give off rbg player vibes with that PFP
But why. Litterally there better pvp game of every possible type out there.
@@angrygun7826 anime pfp talking down on another persons pfp
The main issue, at least in my opinion, is the barrier to entry. The ask is to commit hundreds of hours leveling, gearing, and learning just to find out if you enjoy the PVP or not, and if you do this late in a season you're gonna get smashed for weeks until you catch up in gear. Why would anyone want to do this?
And its a shame because WoW PVP is fucking amazing when you are on an even playing field, but I think some people will give up before they reach that point.
In league or CS2 or CoD, you'll find out if its fun within the first 30 minutes, and you can quickly decide if you want to commit the time or not.
Back in the day playing WOTLK with my friends in high school, we used to play on the PTR realms just so we could instantly have a lvl 80 with full relentless, just to try some different classes out and do arenas, and it was some of the most fun I've had doing PVP in the game.
barrier to entry is also having a set group you play with.
pvp isn't just arena and bg, it's also pvp when you're doing a quest and a member of the rival faction comes and gangs up on you, that's how I discovered wow pvp on priate servers, I had never stepped foot in an arena until I started play Retail at the end of the cataclysm.
I might be old-school in this one... but, I don't agree at all... PvP is like life... It's not fair... If I spent 100h in pvp I should be more powerful and destroy you if you just started... That's the thing we used to look at people with like PvP weapons and hoped we get there one day... it took hundreds of hours to get a PvP weapon... or even full epic gear... it was something to fight for... it was the motivation to log in and get better because then we can get epic helm, shoulders... and when you got it... you were so much more powerful... and it felt good... you felt you achieved something and now you are more powerful... that's PvP as it used to be... you're doing dailies or farm something, you do it in your PvP gear otherwise you get destroyed by others...what is barrier to entry? join BGs and start getting gear... it's not like you can go to Mythic raid with your dungeon gear...
@@luansantanasantos9135 Just depends on the person I guess. It can be fun to overcome a challenge if you aren't just getting one-shotted. I think it can be fun and a good way to discover PVP
Last week a 67 mage ganked my 62 mage in that Ruby dragon baby area, and I couldn't "win" the fight, but i survived long enough by spellstealing his bubbles and playing defensively that I slipped away, mounted, and escaped. It was fun. But I can also see that if he was lvl 70 instead, he would just straight up one-shot me and there would be no counterplay, and that wouldn't be fun or interactive.
@@martin9202 I don't necessarily disagree with you as a whole, just when it comes to the PvP side. What you described is part of what makes MMOs magical and I know I felt that way 100%.
I just don't think its healthy for a competitive PvP scene. Life might be unfair, but competitive PvP and unfairness are mutually exclusive. If you get destroyed in other PvP-focused games, you know its a skill disparity, not a time /played or money disparity - Play better and you will win.
This same concept doesn't really apply to WoW until you are fully geared (or are just evenly geared with your opponent), at which point it 100% becomes a game of skill. So what we are arguing for here, is to just put players on an even playing field from the start for the sake of a healthy PvP environment.
Also I 100% agree that the progression of becoming more powerful and having something to work towards is a good feeling, for what it's worth. I just think it can't exist in PvP and have the PvP be accessible and new player-friendly at the same time.
I don't believe that asmongold was saying that nobody cares about it.. He is correct when he says that it is a side addition to the game. It's not the main game. And that's fine.. zombies on call of duty are a side game but a lot of people purchase call of duty just to play zombies.
I love pvp, I love battlegrounds as many, many do. It does require some changes but they may be coming.
I’m a casual that likes pvp, because you play against other people, not NPCs. I like the complexity. I also like how the matches are short and I don’t have to commit hours of time if I don’t have it.
Yes, there are too many stops and goes, debuffs and modifiers for PVP to be fun. But personally I still enjoy it over PVE, which is become even more complicated these days to the point it feels like a job with all the grinding activities for gear, rep and achieves. PVE does not feel like a game.
I love Venruki. I love his eternal optimism, his passion for the game. Although I’m passionate about the game and love playing it, I’m quite the opposite. I’m the eternal pessimist. However, despite how good he is, how jovial he is, I always feel like he copes so hard for pvp that it’s hard for him to see the forest for the trees. I know this is weird to say, but when Xar stopped playing retail, he being one of the best pvprs in the world, I knew right then pvp was done. Not that I hang my decision on one person, but I can see the writing in the walls. I feel like Ven just isn’t ready.
It’s like this. I’m an ER/ICU nurse. As a 15 year nurse, I’ve dealt with thousands of dieing patients. There are individuals that see their family member dieing in the bed and they REFUSE to see what I’m able to see so easily. Momma is dieing, in fact she’s been dead for a week, we are just keeping her artificially alive.
That’s Ven. That’s wow pvp.
His Venruki online personality is built on top of WoW PvP. Without it there's no Venruki so I can't exactly fault him for having hard time to let go.
There's no future for "traditional" WoW PvP. There's no way to fix it anymore, that ship has sailed. The amount of coping I see amongst retail PvP crowd is quite honestly pretty sad to witness.
@@mekz22 Xaryu's online persona was more or less WoW retail PvP aswell + the little fitness stuff he was doing on the side but that never popped big or he never inteded to grow it outside of his personal life.
Im not sure if he only did it for his Mind's sake or also from CAREER standpoint(Cause im 100% sure hes way better career and finance wise cause he went Variaty and Classic route + still playing Retail when theres new stuff).
Venruki could've done the same thing and probably succeed i wouldnt say im agreeing him with his PvP takes completely yes the game have a problem and its not the gearing or leveling side.
It has a bigger problem and thats mainly tied to gameplay it takes alot of time to learn stuff and to adjust yourself to retail PvP if you're never played it before and people are not willing to commit this time now as a streamer and long time PvP player Venruki probably doesnt relate to that at all or feels it but dont understand completely and thats because we all played WoW PvP in a different time where the world was different we had more time and there werent so many good PvP games to choose from where you can just que and play.
Xaryu stopped pvping in retail because he gets too competitive and it was interfering with his stream/life. WoW PvP isn’t bad, it’s better than it has been for a while. It just needs a major refresh
@@sulfurrr2117 Yes i noticed they dont allow him to yell alot as before.
But im not sure if thats entirely the reason but whatever it is im happy for him for branching out and finding bigger success overall even tho sometimes i find him to be abit of a blizzshill.I dont disagree PvP isnt that bad but i look at it from someone whos played it for many years and i can adjust easier than someone who would just start playing and have to do all that jazz overall to learn it faster.
@@wtbskilllololo yeah I agree, idk how they would go about it but it needs to be more simple and easier for casuals to understand
All your reaction here does is demonstrate that WoW PvP is for the niche minority even more sadly, wish it wasn't the case but here we are.
All the popular online games are PVP.
There is only one type of person who plays PVE in World of Warcraft: People who can't afford a graphics card to play high-quality AAA games.
old poor guy love WOW PVE.
Yeah. Like when Asmon mentioned the "even playing field", and he was like "What does he mean? Gear? Who cares? You just play and get the gear"... after how long? He is probably always starting with the same/better gear than everyone else in PvP, and then quickly farms the current/new gear while having fun, with all his PvP knowledge practice. Someone NEW, trying to play WoW PvP (for some God forsaken reason), that just spent dozens if not hundreds of hours just to reach the point of being able to Queue... how long does he need to keep playing (and with loser-earning scores/points) to get the gear?
Asmon compared it to play Counter-Strike with an Scout vs an AWP. I find it more similar to playing LoL with no inventory slots whatsoever vs people that have them already stacked... If I were to compare it using CS; the new player would only have a Knife and wouldn't be allowed to Run nor Jump. And even then... that player would have better chances of sneaking someone by surprise and killing them with the knife, that your first crappy character without gear nor the correct talents would have at killing anyone in any type of WoW PvP content.
Don't forget we aren't even mentioning (on the video nor the comments) that you are expected to know that you have to look for guides to know what spects/talents/stats you need for PvP. There are no equivalents in Counter-Strike.
@@Kaemonarch gearing in wow is EXTREMELY easy since df/tww. You probably wont believe me but its a fact. Fresh 80 to bis in 5 hours.
PvP in WoW is 100% Asymmetrical, class Balance , experience, game knowledge, gear, OP Weapons and Rings from Mythic or Hc Raids and the most broken of all Addons ,weak auras and UI! Yes the game is super unbalanced.
What new player is gonna download 1000 addons and weak auras and set his ui straight? its fkn stupid that the game doesnt provide you with the informations you need.
I see some streamers where they try duels in TWW beta and they cant play their characters staight cause they dont have the addons and the WAs.
How stupid is this?
Experience and game knowledge? Then, every game is asymmetrical. Addons are nothing compared to downloading specific apps that allow you to change up your pc beyond what Nvidia settings typically allow to lower your latencty, increase fps, and have a colors advantage to see people better. Addons are nothing in comparison to that. It took me way longer to optimize my pc to play Valorant, CS, and Fort at a high level to compete with others that did the same thing. Setting up addons was a simple youtube search because all you need to know is "Cursedforge" and addons that customize your layout without the fear of being tricked into downloading a virus. You definitely never played actual competitive games competitively.
I wish they would just ban add-on use! The shit makes the game brain dead and too many ppl rely way too much on it! They call skill a horn going off letting you know your healer is cc'd or flashing lights telling you when to hit another button
I will say that Ven is kind of misrepresenting the argument when he says that wow pvp isn’t hard to understand.
Say you play literally any other aspect of the game. Most of what you need knowledge of is your own class and how it functions. Most of the time you don’t even need to know CC, just your damage abilities work.
In PvP you not only need to know what your spec does, you also need to know what your partners spec does, AND you need to know what the enemies do. On top of this you need to know how hero talents change the base specs. It’s REALLY hard to get into. You can casually do a dungeon or a raid, but it’s hard to casually PvP.
23000 shuffle rounds? Why didn't he say how many lobbies LOL. Because 1 lobby = 1 match = 1 rating change at the end. So in other words 3863 games played. In league there is probably 3800 games starting every minute.
The thing is shuffle is only 1 mode without bg/2s/3s/epic bg/brawls/blitz also wow is mmorpg(more then only pvp)also world pvp exists and dueling also with sub to play , league is free to play and has basicly only 1 way to play it.
@@user36003 Haven't played WoW in a while, WoW PvP even longer, but I watch videos by time to time (like this one). And I seen people doing whole UA-cam videos of 20-30 minutes while sitting in Queue... That's not something you want ever in any game, to have to wait 30 minutes to just play the thing you wanted to play.
@@Kaemonarch how can you know how much time someone sits in que in a video if its edited boy , i never wait more then 10m for bg que and even less for blitz que , solo que i am 2.2k cr right now on main on alts que pops almost instantly its the higher rated lobbies on my main 2.2k+ you sit for 10-15m in que if you are a healer its insta que.
Btw remind me how much you sit in que for a group for heroic/mythic raid or a M+10 before you find group.
ive played WoW since vanilla and the sh1t has gotten far too confusing in PvP, its not that i cant keep up, its that its not worth it to invest that much time into something that has almost NO REWARD! there is ZERO benefit to grinding out pvp for 6 months to a year to raise your rank that high
Gladiator mount is enough incentive for me even if I've never achieved it 😂the legend banner is cool too. The elite sets, im happy wow is still supplying rewards in-game instead of microtransactions like most games (not happy about any cosmetics in the shop as it is)
Glad title, glad mount, elite set, rank 1 title, solo titles ect lmao?
@@PeterTheDeleter for a game that cant keep subscribers, cant attract new players, and is increasingly becoming a pay to win Cash grab. guess what, who cares if you have all that shit when the servers all shut down because no one else is playing
@@viberaider6852 hence the almost no reward. yea you get those things, but does it really matter when the game dies? do you really feel like the time you investe4d to get that good was well spent? considering some people could literally learn a new language in the time it takes to get 2200+ in wow PVP, that's the effing point.
your investing months and years into something that is effectively worth nothing, and the information you retain from it is absolutely worthless.
@@schustererik83 Nah man, im gonna back up the pvpers here, anything you said applies to every game (mode)
So Venrukuki is o ne of the 2% that actively plays PvP and then hates on the fact people just dont likke it, cuz there´s even less clarity than in m+ and the bloat for pvp is even bigger.
Atop of that, PvP in WoW is badly designed for new players.
Then shows league clip that has way more clarity and.....look a defender of the 2% people and clown to the 98%?
PVE should not exist. PVE is the reason why WOW is losing players.
If you like fighting NPCs, you should play 3A.
All the popular online games are PVP.
There is only one type of person who plays PVE in World of Warcraft: People who can't afford a graphics card to play high-quality AAA games.
@@-nerv-3476 PvE Makes wow the most amount of $. and if you think PvP is the main stream face of most popular online games, youre fucking delusional. get some braincells
average PVP player
@@-nerv-3476 bad take, no proof and receipts, PvE is the reason why wow is still popular. Look at the race to world first. PvP in MMOs has always been tough to balance since it's an MMO and not a shooter. There is no popular PvP MMO at the moment and there never were any that stuck around, they all failed because it's a small niche.
Asmon always comes across as a bit of a DB, but he's not doing a very good job of putting 2 and 2 together.
MoP PvP was wildly successful, and then Blizzard really screwed the pooch in WoD, so if it was popular in the 4th expansion, how was it doomed from the start?
I do actually agree with him that DF PvP is needless complicated, so I do wish it was more like MoP, but the entire reason the PvP isn't popular is purely due to decisions Blizzard made over the years, notably that all of those came after the Activision merger, not that players don't like it. We have far too much evidence from vanilla through MoP that PvP was popular.
Eventually a game falls out of being culturally relevant. Even if blizzard made all the right choices, new genres would steal the new generations away.
Asmongold actually explained why this happened many many times. You are obviously the one who can't put 2 and 2 together. Hint: look at other competitive PvP games released around that time. 😂
Im sorry did I misunderstand? You say MoP pvp is less complicated than DF? You literally had so many buttons in MoP that people started buying mouses with 12 keys on the side. Your regular action bar, 2 top action bars were full and still needed 5 6 spells more in right action bar was needed.
@@cuneytunsal5422 and people don't have that now? Most players have 50+ keybinds for PvP in DF. The game is way more complicated now that it was in MOP.
@@MrSherhi yep, sure...Asmon knows everything.
I recently got back into WoW PvP and don't have any WoW buddies who arena, and it is an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE trying to find someone to que arena with. The amount of time just to find someone, the high chance your pug teammates will rage quit after 1st loss, and terrible matchmaking mmr ranges of enemy teams you go against all makes getting into Rated PvP content so brutal. I just wanna make some PvP friends and never deal with PUGs on LFG ever again >.
The only reason I play WoW is PvP.
I've been playing SWTOR for 12 years, they fixed the same problem years ago.
Removed "expertise" which was specifically for PvP. They made gear for both PvP and PVE the same. They removed AoE, leaving only 1 or 2 skills to be AoE and that's if you choose to use them. Nobody uses them for PvP.
They also removed thousands of CCs and left only 1 or 2 of them and one dispel. In this way, the tank takes over his role, the healer takes over his role, and the DPS does damage.
Those who play the game can confirm that PvP pop is very fast. People play PvP all the time. I dare say there are more players playing PvP than PVE, or at least it's an equal number.
Devels really made all the classes unique.
Skills do not overlap, and each class is unique in skills.
There is no addons, there is nothing to show you what to do, you play with your skills and your brain. This is also the reason why there are no children playing SWTOR. And I can also confirm many people who left WoW to play SWTOR. My guild has at least 200. Blizzard needs to learn from other games practices.
I doubt that Venruki will read my comment, but if you happen to do so, I would like you to comment and react to Star Wars: The Old Republic FULL MOVIE (All Cinematic Trailers) 2022 Updated 4K Ultra HD. I will be very happy and I really want to see your reaction to this. There's no need to play. Just a reaction video. I guarantee you will make a lot of people here happy.
I played swtor since launch, getting top3 ranked PvP title and tier 1 in arenas every season for years. Ranked arena PvP eventually literally died, and now they removed it from the game. PvP in the game now is playing the same game modes over and over with little to no reward from what I understand. If they had ranked arenas, I may come back.
@@bjartr1801 Man we have ranked arena in years already working and ppl play it a LOT.
One of the best balances they could do for pvp to get everyone on a even playing field would be to disable addons. Addons change everything.
I’ve played WoW at a high level in all forms of endgame content (glad, multiple CE kills and M+ titles). Honestly the most fun I’ve had PvPing recently was during Plunderstorm. A lot of my PvE mates enjoyed it too and played beyond renown 40 grind. Really hope they bring it back.
Thank you for this input, most people have this opinion. It's crazy that way simpler and more balanced game mode with nothing required to entry is more desired by PvPers yet 300 PvP elitist claim retail is fine. 😂
Struggling to understand the point he’s trying to make around 5:40 shows just how removed you are from what a traditional pvp game should include. You shouldn’t have to spend time gearing up JUST to be on an even playing field with your opponents. Even if you say gear is easier now, it’s still an upfront cost before you even have a fighting chance, and it means you can’t just play any class you want without having to level and gear.
Coming from someone who has played arena for years. It’s obviously a different style of game, but I think Supervive (originally project Loki) handles the arena genre much better than wow does. Wow arena really needs to be a standalone server where you can pick any class and hop right in. If your game needs external rewards just to incentivize playing, it means the game isn’t fun enough. Getting to play the game itself is the reward of a great PvP game.
Maybe it’s just the way you come across, but it really feels like you’re immediately getting defensive and trying to dismiss every point Asmon says (instead of putting aside your own beliefs and TRULY trying to hear out what he’s saying). This close-minded mentality is really symptomatic of wow pvpers. I get it, this game means a lot to you and you feel offended when someone tries to point out the obvious flaws. But it continues on this echo chamber. I know you still love it, but you’re ignoring the obvious decline of wow pvp over the years.
is this video Venruki recting to Asmon reacting to Xaryu reacting to Raiku?
Was thinking the same thing...
Do yall really need to react to a react to a react video? Getting pathetic.
I think one of the biggest problems with WoW PvP is the amount of people who don't even play it or hop in for a day or 2 on retail then go around spewing hot takes on the state of PvP and calling it a dead game. If you watch someone on a daily basis and then hear them say dont play this, well most of that streamer/content creators fan base will say to others "yeah i heard wow pvp is dead/sucks ass/is a mini game". Point is that criticism is good and needed. WoW PvP isnt perfect but it absolutely is fun as hell. I think we need more positive creators (like Ven, Cdew, etc) advocating for the good parts, while also exposing the bad parts.
You are just sad because truth hurts you, you can't accept it, it's not asmongolds takes and other streamers hot takes of "wow pvp is dead" that killed the game. Stop coping. The game died because it's absolute shit and for anybody who wants a pvp experience there is like 20 better options, it's not 2005 anymore
Your lack of understanding to this conversation only solidifies why your opinion is moot.
I feel like SOLO RBG is going to feel better than solo shuffle or 2 and 3. Mostly because is objective game play, some matches can be one with more than just have the most over power class at the time.
Blizzard def needs to take gear advantage out of rbgs
bgs sure, rbgs na its fine, its rated
the 15 ilvls of difference and 8% damage/hp difference is never going to be why people cant get to 1800 lol.
its not wow pros that moved over to mobas, since theyre super invested and basically wow is their life lol. but yes, in 2009-2011 atleast half of the wow pvpers went to league of legends. i remember it 100%
and yes, in mobas u can definitely tell whats going on. theres no abilities in comparison and wow has tons of flashy bs
People care about pvp, they don't care about Arena. Future of wow pvp is on group pvp content like BGs/Blitz, arena just is not a fun game mode for most players.
I think this time Asmon is right. It really reminds me when I tried to get into Pokemon PvP. The game was fun, I spent a lot of time farming the right Pokemons with right IV-s and skills, had some quite fun matches. Then I went on a tournament and got trashed by players who got better teams and like 10 years of experience. They told me that 'Hey, just keep going, eventually you'll be as good as us'. I realized that I require a PhD to play competitive Pokemon so I kept playing as the game was quite fun, but after getting absolutely trashed on my second tournament as well I quit.
As an experienced WoW player you can say that it is not too bad or that this state is the best it has ever been - it does not change the fact that it is overwhelming for others and rather than investing 300 hours to be decent (not even that good, just decent) at a new game(mode) they just quit.
Asmon is phrasing it very harshly and its exaggerated, but the essence of what he is trying to say is true.
for not being popular, why does awc and mdi pull about the same views?
AWC finals had 28k, MDI had 64k so.......yeah
Also PVE players don't watch MDI as much as PVP players watch AWC
Mdi is a ultra-hardcore niche too and still has like triple the numbers.
@@Krulfar mdi is just m+ dg , the esier content in wow end game , i do pvp and pve for sure pve is made for the retails player who are bad ;)
@@goldenzbeatmaker wow, what a comment.
THE PVP MAKE ME BACK IN THE GAMME EVERY YEAR FROM 10 YEARS :)
WoW PvP back in the day was literally the most glorious gaming period of my life. it can absolutely work in an MMO when done right. Asmon is just a living definition of talking out of his arse.
No, he's absolutely right about that, yeah sure it can be done right, but are you really that delusional to think that blizzard is going to do it right?
Yeah thats a stupid take.
The bad thing is people that have no idea about PVP are talking about PVP. And spreading misinformation, The people who know PVP are too competitive and it’s harder for them to cater to a bigger audience
All of the best competitive pvp games every starts every match at the same level same gear same amount of abilities same amount of gold
Said it a thousand times, Asmon does not understand wow PvP at a fundamental level and shouldn't speak on it with authority until he develops an understanding.
His current PvP experience is exactly what at least 75% of the player base feels. Which is why pvp is such a small community.
Wow PvP looks fun, but the barrier to entry is just so high if you’re new to it. And the wow community is generally pretty toxic to new players
Its not... just get honor gear in 2hours and you good to go.. rest is learn and get better like any pvp game/mode why people think they need to get to even 1.8k from scrap and just insta being getting everything without putting effort
I tried PvP in Dragonflight for a couple of months and I really tried to take it seriously. I reached a reasonable (for me) rating in shuffle. But in that time I was never really able to learn to identify what important things are happening on the screen. Even when you set up all the addons the way everyone does - custom announcer included - it's hard to parse the information. It's overwhelming.
And I disagree with Venruki that MOBAs are just as bad: I have much more time in WoW PvP than in DotA and DotA is much easier to follow/get into.
It's a shame because I think the gameplay in retail is way better than the old days. Abilities are cool and fun to use. There's just too many of them. If it were up to me I would halve the number of buttons everyone has and make it so that not every class has everything. And even if I don't like it, maybe embrace the idea that each class will have one viable pvp tree...
How much conquest do you get for an arena win? I'm pretty sure you need like 30+ wins before you are "fully geared" like he is talking about, and for a new player that will be 100+ matches. It sucks to be at a disadvantage for your first 10-20 hours of a new pvp game. Why would anyone put up with that?
You clearly don't know how gearing works. I wouldn't play if I was this dumb
?¿ when you are honor geared low mmr you get qued on to same honor geared low mmr just l2p thats all dont cry you cant win if you dont know how to play the game
@@user36003 nah you get qued against a dude on a glad mount that's sent conq boxes to his alt while your in greens at 1600mmr lol
@@Memoop-iz6vk i geared 6 alts during season 4 from 0 , you dont encounter that until you are close to 1.8k rating , also if he is on glad mount and full honor gear he is just better then most people
@@user36003 nah he's on a glad mount with full tier and purps with 0 games played
Does this guy play a Frost mage, by any chance? If he does, I can understand why he likes PVP. From Vanilla to the last expansion I played, the mage was always on top. it takes the least amount of skill to play, CC, and high DPS.
i think part of what he's saying about mmo pvp is that it's at odds with the design goals / systems of mmos (gear progression mainly). gear progression feels like an unfair advantage. you already have people being insanely good and the game being complex. gear being an additional advantage that people have makes me not want to play it. when i play pvp, i want it to be as normalized and balanced as possible, with only skill determining the outcome. i know that's not what everyone wants, but it's why i don't play mmo pvp anymore. i don't have the time to play a lot, so i need to be able to jump in and be competitive immediately
Even if that was so, you’d still have class imbalance. You’d have to level a new character and learn it. It’s not as simple as a moba is as just choosing it before the match. Your forced into a strict meta in a randomized queue, at least in league, you get picks/bans to change it up.
@@Rizzerio1 Thats why MMO PVP is at the lowest it has ever been. That's why MOBAS were invented and became so popular. It's basically "you can have the same experience as a wow arena from the get go!" That's why I got into SMITE so much, 3rd person MOBA, some similar mechanics etc
Then mmorpgs are not for you in pve you are also in disatvantage because people can overgear or undergear you also , if you want all to be even playing field "templates" go for battlefield or COD or LOL or velorant, mmorpgs not for you.
Then you should try guild wars 2
100% agree that too many buttons
asmon is saying a lot of stuff like "Why would you play if you're going to just get stomped" and "Its unbalanced so that isn't fun at all." but its fun to see yourself progress even if you suck at the game. its fun going from a guy who can barely get a win to a guy who can consistently get wins in crazy moments and in difficult games.
it's like if someone walked into the gym first their first day and a person in there says "That 250 pound barbell over there? that's going to crush you, so why would you even try?" yeah it probably will but you have to build up to it. so that person keeps going for awhile and eventually if they try hard enough and consistently enough they can eventually lift that weight multiple times. its a similar mindset with wow pvp. also even if you're playing against someone on a class that completely counters yours, it's fun beating them on a worse spec because you had more game knowledge, experience, or you know a trick or a talent that can edge it in your favor that maybe the other player doesn't know or expect, or you have a good mindset and were calm in the key moments, maybe you got lucky for one, etc. and generally just try to get good at all the things that can make you good then it feels amazing to progress and start doing things you didn't expect yourself to be able to do when you were starting out. at the end of that learning curve once you're proficient enough to start winning a little and knowing why you won and start attempting things in games that help you win more, you start to have way more fun. just like with any sport or skill that you acquire. sucking sucks, but once you know what you're doing its fun and satisfying to play.
He explained why very clearly, most people don't want uneven play field. In games like LoL you can just hop in and have fun, even win sometimes after few hours. You are nowhere near that in retail WoW, at best you are learning how UI works, how to move your health bar from upper left corner and you are getting swarmed by useless quests in Valdrakken if you use 70 boost.
@@MrSherhi You are not at an even playing field in league, if you were, every game would be super close, but majority of league games are complete stomps
Its okay too like it. The important question is why the vast majority dont, and what you would change/sacrifice to have a growing playerbase and proper dev investment.
man wtf, an mmo is just a collection of minigames in the first place. whether you pet battle, you ss, you 3's or 2's or bg's, mythic + , raids, RAIDS WITH DIFFERENT NUMBERS OF PLAYERS. You can balance it all separately if you want. What was the idea behind resilience? PVP MINIGAME SPECIFIC ADJUSTMENTS. The concept of uniquely balanced game modes is THERE. Their execution can be off in many different ways throughout the years, that's a criticism of Blizzards COMPETENCY in executing their perfectly rational and reasonable design ideas.
playing an mmo is difficult when you don't have the developer focus on the minigames you like, but to just not expect them to do better with their niche communities is a cringe prescription to the issue.
i think one of the best changes retail could do is make the honor gear and conq gear having a minimal gap
23k+ shuffles a day and still takes several minutes to queue only to get pushed down by the shitty mmr, yes pvp is failing.
We all know Asmon doesn't like pvp because he's been bad at it for 15 years. Which is ok! He has an ego tho.
Every time Asmon talk I just hear a politician .... Doesn't even do or review the material yet will make decisions on what's right or wrong about it while not doing it at all. Weird mind set.
Is he wrong? That’s all that matters. Wow PvP population is low
@@dragonquake yes he is wrong. Fuck the numbers. WMBA gets no numbers but keeps on running.
the gear uneven statement is based around everyone being in different stages of progression at any given time in an mmo. so there would never be balance from any starting point since everyone has different time in the game
venruki is extremely invested in wow and you can tell how mad he is from people saying pvp is dead lol. IT IS DEAD VEN, what are you arguing against?? the league gameplay you showed was easy to spot everything going on, despite not knowing what the abilities do. wow pvp is garbage now and even after playing it for nearly 20 years i cant follow fk all in a game. im not a loser who spends all day on it but still, pretty fkn stupid game. they should restart arena as a completely new game on bnet client and go from there, no grinding
If you like fighting NPCs so much, why don't you play high-quality AAA games? Is it because you can't afford a graphics card?
hahahaha，World of Warcraft PVE shouldn't exist.
@@-nerv-3476 i never even mentioned pve
When i did play WoW, there was something to do for whenever i couldnt or didnt want to play PvP. But if it wasnt for PvP, i wouldnt have ever played it as long as i did. Watching arena videos is the only thing the ever makes me want to come back.
Imo Plunderstorm is the best pvp wow has ever had
3:34 The reason i started to play wow was reckfull montages.
I still don't understand half of it but i wish i could.
I don't think the problem is pvp. I think the problem is the arena UI and the need of addons. Making every screen unique and hard to follow.
Also some stuff are very hard to understand. Hunter cancel animations and use of Aspects for exemple. If they jump to cancel animation is hard to capture in a montage unless you played for a long time
Asmongold's issue with PvP (and engagement as a whole) in MMORPGs is that he associates the value of accomplishment with the aspect of flexing. Back when he was a more active player of WoW he liked to raid until he had the best gear (zero interest in Mythic CE due to the time investment and being to irritated by other players making mistakes - a result of his temperament). When he used to run old content for transmog and mounts, he did it as a "numbers go up" dopamine plus being able to flex one of the most complete collection journals at that time. He stopped doing PvP beyond getting the Gladiator mount and Vicious saddle because he cared more about the cosmetic reward than the pure satisfaction of playing. He stopped playing as much due to him pursuing content he felt would be better for his audience to spectate (variety streaming and reacting), and in doing so he fell behind in the categories that he formerly felt accomplished with. I think it's around that point he became more of a doomer when it comes to MMORPGs because for what he wants to feel like his time isn't wasted, the game needs to be finite whereas MMORPGs are by design infinite. So because he is no longer able to play enough to obtain the same satisfaction he had before he started playing less, he has determined that any attempt to try would be a waste of time because the next expansion/patch with invalidate any progress he made towards collections. Which is why he rarely plays MMORPGs anymore (at least visibly on stream), and instead just does variety gaming and reaction content as that is what his community has come to expect and enjoy. In other words, he's beyond the event horizon and only wants to advocate/support a version of the game that would suit his ability to play the game minimally while being able to maintain the worth he feels in his time investment.
Im WoW and dota 2 player, I would choose playing LoL pvp over Wow pvp anytime
As a virgin nerd who has played wow since early tbc (played almost every class and spec to 2200-2800)
And played league since season 2 (casually getting plat/emerald/diamond
I use very minimal wow addons (sarena omnicc, zero cd trackers)
And i can confidently say they are both easy to play and follow if you take the time to actually learn each class and champion. If you cant figure it out its because youre putting little effort into it.. people just love to complain i swear
Gear and matchmaking is a serious barrier for entry to pvp for me. The bigger problem is matchmaking though. If I'm like 1400 and I get buzzsawed by some glad player it immediately kills my interest and it's another 6 months before i even attempt to repeat the process. I know it's fun to own noobs and what not, but in a competitive landscape it has no place. It's like forcing an LFR player to go do Mythic raid and expecting them to enjoy the experience. Once you achieve glad for the season your entire account should be banned from sub-2000 matches or something similar.
Just the fact that every new season you had to RECRAFT those damn embellished items and enchant them…..Unless you bought gold, there is no gold farm in WoW were the average person can make that kind of gold.
@@benjaminhampson1670 playing maybe 2 hours a night. It’s not possible lol. Sophic devotion for your weapon was going for 25-30k. You’d have to log on everyday and just do world quests to barely be able to afford that. That being said now that cuts into and average persons play time. You just don’t want to admit it.
@@TheBigG0613 that's true I forget not everyone has the time I do also iv never seen sophic devotion for more than 15k but i didn't play season one and I guess it depends in server
I wasn't a pvper but that's one of the main reasons I quit WoW when dragonflight began. Couldn't keep up with the prices of all the new fancy profession stuff. I wanted to log on and play (raid/m+), not tediously farm gold or level professions to spam chat for hours, so that I can afford consums etc. Discord boosting servers were great for quick cash, but after those closed, there ain't no way in the world I'm gonna spend my time tediously farming (or buying) the gold I need to play the game.
my man what are you talking about, you exchange your honor for pieces and then sell back for gold. makes more than enough gold to craft your stuff (which only needs to be basic quality) and repair your gear.
this is the kind of take you'd hear from someone who played for a few hours and quit.
for people saying sophic devotion is 25k+, i just checked and it's 1.5k. you can do 1 PvP WQ for 1k, which takes maybe 5 minutes including flying to the area.
25k was the price on expansion launch where very few people had the profession leveled high enough to even craft it and the mats were scarce so of course prices were inflated so that only the wealthy could buy them, this had nothing to do with pvp 25k is too expensive even for most PvE players, all you had to do was wait 3 weeks and prices dropped to 5k and less.
@@BattousaiHBr my man I have more then a “few hours” lol. Might cost that much on your server pal…ever think of that? Want me to pay real money now to transfer ? Trying to play PvE as well, need more than the “minimal quality”. Who wants to spend their already minimal play time doing world quests pal
in my humble opinion, pvp is fun and its also very frustrating, especially when playing vs classes like hunter, dh, priest, druids and mages, where you can slow them cause they have their mobilities on such small cooldown that removes the slow+gives them movement speed has atleast 15 pets out, when they just fly up as a defensive which shouldnt even be in the game to begin with, shapeshifting out of slows and sitting in bear for while healing and taking close to no damage, and being uncatchable because they have 6 blinks on short cooldown with roots and permanent slows.
blizzard has to heavily nerf or rework all the talent trees, best would be if they went back to mop talent tree styles, i have no idea why they even changed it
Most PvPers don't play Arena either it's not MMO PvP. Arena is a mini-game that failed and should of been abandoned a long time ago. Classes aren't supposed to fight 2v2 or 3v3. They are supposed to be based around Class roles over objectives and large scale fights. Arena was doomed since day 1 and probably hurt WoW PvP overall the most. The day the AWC is cancelled and Esports is ended WoW PvP might have a chance to become something special. WoW Arena just isn't a watchable product the format is terrible and doesn't compare to other games. I know this upsets Arena players but there is only a few 1,000 of you for a reason and why no one cares or watches the AWC. No one is interested in what you like. PvE players or PvP players. Arena is dead.
source: trust me bro, this 3rd party website told me so
I think the only thing that needs to be said to counter what Asmon is saying is that we have evidence that in MoP PvP was as popular as PvE (across the various game modes - e.g., BGs were as popular as LFR etc). Blizzard employees even said so at the time.
The only reason WoW PvP has gotten worse is because Ion 'shut up PvP guy' Hazzikostas became top dog of WoW, and decided to down prio PvP to the very bottom - screwing over PvPers royally.
Examples:
- Triple prunings - in WoD, Legion and SL
- M+ class design with inf AoE and mobility, as opposed to no AoE in rotations and limited mobility
- Catering to the "I hate CC" crowd - leading to primarly tons of micro CC (also driven by M+ of course), as opposed to long strategic CC chain
- Awful gearing system in two consecutive expansions Legion (inf power farm + no reliable way to get good PvP gear) and BfA (all PvE gear), and still having a half-bad system (random new OP broken PvE set bonuses in PvP each season).
All of this is what brought the PvP playerbase down to only 10% of the total playerbase, ignoring PvP feedback for 4 expansions such that we got to the point that now it's easy to dismiss any requests with "it's only a side game, they're too few - we don't care".
You can make pvp good but its too much hard for returningplayers i dont understand nothing
No its not, you just have a knowledge gap you need to fill. Play the new classes, learn them, then you will return to your old rating. This game is about knowledge and knowledge is power.
With any player coming back to the game, it can be a little overwhelming. You just have to learn what’s new.
@@Drualeaf I disagree 100% and I’ve had several seizures and an epilepsy diagnosis and barely remember a thing.
The problem is a knowledge gap, the game has no changed.
@@andyc8707 sounds like you have a Disability. How is that the games fault?
Yah bro, level every class to max and take the time to master each one like a chess grandmaster….and only then you can begin to actually play the game
It's not the ex WoW pros specifically that went to play mobas, it's that a large amount of the pvp playerbase switched to other pvp games. So it's rare to see new blood climbing the ranks in WoW now because it's mainly seasoned players (whether they're famous or not).
So, as someone who's pvp'd quite a bit in wow but i am not very serious. The issue i have is that there is so much going on and damage flying out everywhere and as a healer it can get overwhelming. I think damage should be toned down and fights should be more reliant on healer mana.
Go play cata 😂😂 this is exactly how it is and it's just horrible
It's cool that Ven likes retail pvp and his point about badminton was interesting, but Asmons advice to invest your time into a more popular game is absolutely valid. It's cool if you like badminton, or wow retail pvp, but you have to realize people are not going to care about you. If you expect to have a tennis following (or paycheck) and you are playing badminton you are going to have a bad time. This is exactly why the following (and prize pool) of any WoW retail pvp event is infinitely smaller than a comparable high level LoL or CS go or Valorant following. You can't disagree with that.
No because Badminton isn't being buffed and nerfed by video game devs and people aren't making UA-cam videos asking for a badminton buff
Wow PvP is unique and more satisfying then any other game that is purely made for pvp. People who say games like Lol are better are delusional just because a game like lol has more players/viewers doesnt mean it is more fun the barrier to entry is just way lower and thats why it is more popular people dont think of pvp if they think about WoW.
Just because you like something doesn't mean it's objectively good.
The fact is that most people don't like WoW PvP, which is why over time fewer and fewer people play it. I don't think any of these streamers are claiming that you individually are a moron for liking WoW PvP, just that statistically speaking most people would be happier doing something else. WoW PvP still might be the best solution for you, but people aren't talking about you specifically, but the overall WoW community.
its fine to accept that people who like wow pvp have a niche interest
Mmr should be account wide and role specific. For anyone saying that is unfair guess what: getting stomped by the 20th alt of a rank 1 player on 1600-1800 is unfair too.
6:11 He is talking about progression within PvP. You level from 1-70 in PvE, and have a sense of progression and power achievement. You dont really have that in modern WoW PvP. You are in an arena, with equally geared people with the only differentiating factor being player skill. If you add an actual progression system (talents or gear you can only get for x level) the system falls apart and becomes imbalanced. He means it's doomed to fail because anyone that goes into WoW PvP will not obtain a real sense of progression other than rating.
I feel the progression between a green weapon and the epic one, tier sets, enchants. It's not much but there is a small gear progression
The only thing that pisses me off about pvp is when they changed the item upgrade currency with flightstones instead of honor.
Like wtf is even the point of honor after you buy the base gear
Ven I understand what he is saying about uneven playing field for new players. How are you supposed to get fully geared when it takes knowing the game to win but you keep losing cause ur learning and also undergeared so it doesn’t help at all. I love wow and it’s a great game but it’s very hard.
All the gear is normalized in Blitz. You can walk in to a game in greens with the secondary stats of your choice and be just fine.
Solution is very simple:
Have different modifiers for when you are in PvP content (Arena/BG/etc..) and PvE content (M+, Raid, etc...).
You can make AoE effects deal less damage in PvP content, and Single Target damage (ex. frostbolt) deal more damage in PvP content. Vice versa for PvE content.
I've seen it being done on private servers, and I've done it myself on an experimental server; it is possible!
PvP is and will be dead as long as blizzard does not treat it as a separate game and gamemode.
GW2 did it right
FFXIV kind of did it right.
You make flat stat templates for each class, everyone has same gear etc. You pick gems and talents etc but its easily balanced as a separate mode outside PvE.
Conquest 5v5 mode, everyone has 10 abilities, 1 trinket, 1x CC, 1x self heal or defensive, thats it.
Pure teamplay and balanced, e-sport ready
I stand in Valdraken and queue solo shuffle and that’s it. I got every class to at least 1800 in season 4. Classes aren’t too complicated. Please don’t cater to an easier style of play
Back in Cata and MoP I could play 100-200 matches per day despite the fact that I had less free time.
Now I play only 1 BG per week because since WoD balance moved towards the AoE abilities and shitty class designes ruined all fun.
...or everything cleaves, but doesn't hit anyone under a control effect that will break unless targeting a target with that control effect such as fear. And make that primary target deal much more damage than the cleaved targets. I'm returning for Solo Queue RBGs.
i think we talk shit on pvp because it detracts from the part of the game we like. mixing pvpers and pvers in one game is a recipe for disaster.
Asmongold says everything negative about wow every expansion but yet he still plays especially at the beginning of new expansion and raids, if he hates it so much on blizzard and wow he should just F off take his wow game back to Walmart or where ever he got it, as for a refund and never come back to wow. Stop talking shit about wow and just Uninstall it.
The beauty of PvP is that nothing is guaranteed. If you learn to play well you will progress. This makes us play more to get better. PVE doesn't teach me anything. I take no pleasure in killing NPCs.
dont pretend pve doesnt take skill lol, theres huge room to evolve as a player and get better. Honestly most pvpers would improve drastically by doing PVE content and learning to do damage better
No BG plays out the same every one is different. NPCs don't switch up their tactics.
@@Da5kone001yes, it's the world of Warcraft I love the cross progression, m+ rotation totally is the way to go for learning a class, even a raid fight. I play PvE at the start of the season then play PvP the rest of the season and it's drastically helped me over the seasons!
I'm not a fan of people only playing one facet of WoW it's a large game, try a few!
@@cappm4201 thats a little disingenuous pvp in wow has a very set script and if you dont follow it you lose
Compare learning curve in WoW PvP vs Plunderstorm for example. The skill gap is to high and the game is designed to gain knowledge over the course of a couple of months at best and plunderstorm is probably 2 days.
The game used to be more about decision making and now it's so much more skewed towards quick reaction, it killed it for a lot of older players
It's still about decision making, it's just you get punished for acting like it's a turn based game 😅
Honestly wow is pretty old guy friendly compared to other pvp games, those games you can barely see people over 30 still playing competitively on top of the ladder.
@@cresentz23 right, just look at cdew!
Asmongold told something shit
Im 41, it has GCDs so the pacing is quite good but not so stupidly slow or ultra fast. Its honestly in the perfect spot to me.
I will say as cooked as some of Asmons takes are the one I do agree with is new players having such a massive disadvantage. Especially during stretches where pvp is not as popular and with less incoming new players in pvp but also across wow as a whole. Not only is the mode super intense, hard to understand what's going on visually and involving 38 other specs that you may have no prior information on and where you may or may not be fighting an uphill battle on gear, most people you fight may have upwards of a decade or more experience or a massive skill gap. So it starts as fighting an uphill battle as a learning diff of how pvp is different than pve knowing what classes do what etc, then you add in that theres a gear diff, then you add the skill diff, because like you've mentioned before players like to smurf and own noobs. It's just how it is. I think that's what turns away most newcoming pvp players in that it turns from fighting one uphill battle into like 3 or 4 uphill battles all at once in a very stressful environment, and the more new players that get discouraged by this, the more of a negative loop it creates where the joke "its all the same 300 players on 20 different characters" becomes a little too real and then what chance does any new player have of trying to insert themself, where they're just solely playing 2k rated players on alts for 1200 games a season. It seems like for a newer player there is a lot less of a 'progression' when it comes to pvp and its more of a binary beat your head against it for a while until you hit a certain level where it clicks and a certain rating and then can feel more like a progression and learning environment.
Those are just my thoughts tho, im definitely a bad and average pvper who only puts in maybe a couple hundred games here and there some seasons.
The people who don't play Retail opinions are more valuable which is why Asmon is mostly stating facts. I don't play Retail and that's why we comment on it because we hope some day it gets fixed and becomes playable again. We all want a good game to play and it's not Retail and the next expansion fixes nothing with Retail, it's just more convluted mess ontop. So if we want to PvP it's just better to play another game or Classic. Retail just isn't going to attract players anymore especially for PvP. Time to do a hard reset and do WoW 2 which is the only way you fix Retail is by ending it.
Asmon isn't going and playing any of those games those, he's disingenuous with his point, he's speaking for others when in reality he doesn't play WoW or WoW PVP because he's not that good, doesn't want to put the effort in to get good while being made fun of by his chat. He's pining for nostalgia and a sense of discovery that isn't in there that no game can fill
retail has more new players than classic, thats facts
@@lunaticmode638 It does not. People who are into PvP aren't starting to play WoW and older players have moved on or playing Classic.
You're the kind that listens to people who hate Sushi when opening a new sushi joint and wonder why your restaurant is failing. BTW, GDC numbers say otherwise, retail is better than it's ever been.
@@WhatIfTheories then why did the fresh WOTLK servers crashed and burned after the hype for them was over? It was quite literally the golden opportunity for new blood, you couldn't even use level boosts there, and yet they died anyway
And the fact that battlegrounds gear is still not normalized (leveling up) is a massive sign of Blizzard not caring about PvP.
It's so funny for me to see Venruki angry; I would take his arguments more seriously if it seemed to me that he had an objective attitude and not a defensive one. People who are WoW players and only WoW players lack the perspective to solve WoW problems since their experience is limited to WoW and they don't see or experience other games to bring ideas.
14:58 BG's are really easy to understand. There's a point A to point B objective but people just choose to fight in mid for 15 minutes.
I work 57 hours a week... and still manage to get full conquest gear at the same time as other players. You really dont need to spend much time gearing.
I always have capped honor, so i always get the full honor set instantly. And then i get conq cap each week very easily, and vault very easily
And what you're doing there is taking your OWN experience and expecting others to follow up on it, purely because YOU do it that way? I am also a main pvper, but you aren't cooking here, chief.
@Mythication Yeah, and what everyone else does is the exact same thing.
They say that it is difficult to gear because of how THEY choose to do it.
I'm not saying anything about the game in general. Merely sharing MY experience. Nowhere in my comment did I criticise the people who believe gearing is hard. I only stated how I do it.
He's right. People, especially Gen Z, can't stand losing, so they left in droves to play equally matched games. WoW PvP needs a complete overhaul. You're right that the pros didn't switch because they weren't losing.
Kinda funny that the league of legend video you show us was 10 times simpler than any wow retail pvp tournament xd
lol yeah that was a wild example if u pick any single character in that highlight and watch them its pretty simple to see what they are doing
Kinda miss the world pvp happened back then where everybody mounts up and run to enemy's capital city/ pvping in front of some dungeon/ raid's door. Nowadays ppl just having a long queue to get into a solo shuffle to have 'biggest' pvp environment. Also, the pvp throughout leveling maps was fun too, where people get killed and revenge until the war become bigger and bigger. Kinda miss all the old school pvp where there were actually some pvp communities.