***** I saw yeah. #FucKonami We all support Big Bo-- I mean...Kojima and his team now. And we're fighting Cipher...Konami. Kinda funny, I had a feeling Kojima would do something like this for years.
+Megajon so in the end, we the players are Venom Snake, and Kojima is Big Boss that this Legend (Game Series) Is ours forever even though Cipher the Patriots (Konami) Have control. now that you clarified that with me I officially declare this game my favorite game! thanks man!
I kinda love how Venom Snake, whom we think is the real BB, walks towards his smoky destiny to face his demise(Solid Snake) truly completing the entire saga!
I take him walking into the smoke as him walking back into the current life he has, not the fight with solid, because the door logo changes back to diamond dogs after it shows outer heaven.
Damn, it gives me goosebumps seeing the Outer Heaven logo in the mirror when he breaks it, I can imagine him walking to the other room confronting Solid Snake.
@@revolver-boss-2796 of course, but it doesnt have to mean it's from that time. I would rather quess that it's still not long after end of TPP. nothing except from the logo of outer heaven, which i think has only allegorical sense here (next role of venom) points that time passed between two cassettes. And the fact that he still wears DD uniform completely kills interpretation that is just before fighting Solid Snake
@@pentlik at the end of the day it’s very ambiguous and up to the player to decide. I think either way it doesn’t really matter if it’s in the past or not. The player knows what is being referenced and what is to come. He could be in the past, he could be wearing the DD patch perhaps for sentimental reasons; idk. Again either way I think the point and impact is the same.
When Ocelot says "Don't worry he can handle it." because (in a slight 4th wall break) he knows YOU the player can handle it. The whole point of Venom was that, (assuming you created yourself with the character creator) YOU are Venom, and YOU are Big Boss's best man because YOU have been there with him his entire life because YOU played all the games. Before MGSV, you were by all accounts, ACTUALLY Big Boss because you played his life. The speech from Big Boss over from the cassette more than just wrapping up the plot points it is Hideo Kojima telling the fans of the series "I'm Big Boss and you are too, he's the two of us together. Where we are today we built it" and "Thank you my friend" for sticking with his series for this long, knowing he was on his way out of Konami. Kojima is telling the fans we are all as cool, idealistic and badass as Big Boss because we are his Phantom. Such a great ending
Beautiful. Knowing that makes this ending so much better. Too bad it had to end like this, being cut short, the game missing a whole chapter. Would have been cool to have played as Naked Snake in a squeal and create outer heaven.
Throughout the entire cutscene, one can notice that the door behind Venom has the Diamond Dogs logo. However, at 5:18, look closely in the mirror, bottom left. It changed to the Outer Heaven logo. I fucking love these small references!
@@BigBoss-zi6tj same. It's kind of silly but when I find myself in a tough situation I think back to this. I'm big boss. I carry that with me wherever I go. Of course that might be because I played this game when I was 14 and it left a big impact on me.
The fact that all that panic in Outer Heaven is caused by a "green" 20 years old guy on his first mission that despite being given false information and intel for the whole mission he is still trashing the entire place is kinda funny in a sad way.
I didn't know this sence takes a place at 1995. So this is the moment before Venom dies. Before Solid Snake kills him. I really feel bad for Venom Snake. He was the most pute heart guy.
The first part takes place in 1984, because the diamond dogs logo is on the door at first. When he flips the cassette to "operation intrude n313", the logo on the door changes, showing that 10 years have passed. When he turns around and walks away, that's when he's on his way to face solid
@@subpain4257 true, and the funny part is that he is meant to be us, the player xD. That's what I loved about TPP, they managed to incorporate that into true game well, us being big boss
@@andrescaceres2822 There's no reason Big Boss couldn't have come out of hiding and told Venom and Miller the truth. Instead he's complicit in using him
No he isn't. This is what Venom wants. He even acknowledges it in the nuclear ending and it's also echoed by Ocelot as well. It's Miller who is enraged for no reason at the fact Big Boss wants nothing to do with him after his betrayal which led Zero and Paz right to him and caused the destruction of MSF
The explosions and gunfire in the background, that is Solid Snake attacking. Phantom Snake knows this is his last moments alive, notice how the logo on the door changes from Diamond Dogs to Outer Heaven after Phantom smashes the mirror.
+Ash halo Let's be real, in terms of how this ending changes things, Big Boss sent Solid Snake - the supposed 'weaker one' of LET - to die. He was making sure the loose ends got cleared up, presuming Liquid dead already thanks to the Kingdom of the Flies, and didn't know about Solidus.
Imo when he played the operation intrude tape at 4:29 or something sorry if I messed the timestamp, it symbolises the 10 years timeskip and that he succeeded over solid in the end the smoke was of the gunpowder consumed by their weapons in that combat. Well that's just my opinion and I personally believe it since I love venom haha
@@SonTaicario I'm well aware of that mate, I was really high while writing that shit lol. But tbh it feels really good to think that way haha. Either that excuse to satisfy myself, or else tell myself that "Venom died when he was around 60 years of age so it's fine solid was pretty young, atleast lived half century." so I don't feel sad.
For those who don't understand. When Big Boss talks to Venom he is telling you that you achievements are his too. You and Big Boss are one. You took Big Boss's Identity and Big Boss took yours (name, birthday and your face) You Ahab are the reason that Outer Heaven is very popular and infamous. Because you build it from zero. One way or another Outer Heaven was created by you/Big Boss. When Venom flips the tape... 10 years has passed. Big Boss informs Venom about Solid Snake's arrival with the tape of Operation Intrude N313. Venom has killed many people through-out the years leaving his horn to ultimately have it's final form. Venom gets ready to fight the son of Big Boss. When Venom sees himself on the mirror, he finally see that he has lost everything he had. He lost his identity, his memories, his love interest(Quiet), his comrades and his sanity. All he has left is war and loyalty to Big Boss. He smashes the window because he doesn't like what he's become. When Venom turns around he returns to the past (1984) because the next adventure lies in Metal Gear for MSX. For those who say "But this was suppose to be about Big Boss's descend to villainy." I think you forgot that at the end of MGS4, Big Boss says that ever since he killed his mentor The Boss. He has already been dead. In Peace Walker Big Boss took the title that the CIA gave him a decade ago and created Outer Heaven at the same time. Big Boss predicted that they were going to be head hunted after the Peace Walker incident. Big Boss is already corrupted because he is mis-understanding the will of The Boss leaving him to do reckless choices. Big Boss was never a bad guy...he simply didn't understand what his mentor wanted after all these years...leaving Big Boss to look like a bad guy,
you sir just made sense of this to me. i will stop complaining. because you did it without insulting the ones who don't like the ending....I'm now indifferent
What about him saying to Solid Snake at the final battle that War is everything? Suprassing all pleasures of life? About how war will be needed in the world for a soldier's paradise? And how he was going to raise child soldiers? "They'll make fine soldiers in the next war..." That is evil. He misunderstood the Boss's will and that made him into a villain.
Venom Snake had the most tragic life of all the snakes. Forced to live in the shadows of another man, forced to kill his own men, and fought Cipher, then dies and is forever forgotten. Meanwhile cowardice Naked Snake gets all the credit and has no shame creating a phantom for his own selfishness protection.
Not big Boss created the phantom! It was Major Zero and ocelot. Orig. Big Boss was in coma too, while he was brainwashed. But he took the Gift they made him, and tried to do what he had too... and his legacy isn‘t forgotten! He also is Big Boss
so, analyzing the final cutscene something comes to my mind. The change of logo on the door behind Venom indicates that some time passed away between the moment in which Venom hears "From the man who sold the world" cassette side, and the moment in which he hears the "Operation Intrude n 313" cassette side, or the logo change is just allegorical? If the first hypotesis is true, this would mean that Venom remembers who he really is long before the moment in which he has to face Solid Snake. Anyway, all that blood on his face shows clearly that he had to fight too many battles, becoming a demon to let Big Boss achieve his plan. He understands he's been used, and get angry. But what is shown also in this ending is that Kojima rewards us with the title of Big Boss, for having been loyal to his masterpiece all over the years. I have to say...after 28 years, I felt like I lived the end of an era. Thank you mr Kojima, for having given us such a great piece of ART. *Military salute*
In this scene, moreover your details, occurred transition to first metal gear events, and Venom Snake downald Operation 313 on MSX competer from Solid Snake... Realy genius!
@@smirnovwhycinema1760 yes, several years go by...and Venom realises he has been "sold" too by "the man who sold the world". This is why I prefer Venom Snake over Big Boss, I think that in MGSV Kojima needed to clarify more that Big Boss was not a hero like everyone was saying after MGS3, but he chose a wrong path. Only true heroes in the saga are Solid Snake and The Boss, and I would put even Revolver Ocelot in the list, even if in a much more ambyguous way
The "Big Boss" in MG1's Outer Heaven is actually Venom Snake. The real Big Boss is the one in MG2's Zanzibarland. I doubt that the real Big Boss had Solid Snake kill Venom Snake. Notice in this video that Big Boss sent Venom Snake a tape that presumably contained the details of Operation Intrude N313. My theory is that Big Boss was warning Venom Snake that he had sent Solid Snake out on a mission to kill him. But Big Boss probably thought that Venom Snake could take down a rookie Solid Snake. But alas, that didn't happen. Both Big Boss and Venom Snake underestimated Solid Snake.
+brightsuperstition there's many theories you could make on this. Either Big Boss wanted to test his son (he didn't care about them as his sons) or he wanted to test Venom, or Venom had his own agenda (that's why he sent Gray Fox first who is FOXHOUND's best agent).... I think that part should remain as mystery, because then it's your decision, because Venom Snake is you but he's also Big Boss. You can decide what happened with yourself. Did you go against Big Boss and that's why Solid Snake beat you? Or were you in team work with Big Boss all the way?
+Zillionjape It's a fact Big Boss has never liked his "sons", so we can assume he wanted Solid dead. But then, why did he send Gray Fox? If he truly was considered the best Foxhound agent, can we also assume he wanted Venom dead? This ending, imo, either suggests he survived after Solid (hence why he comes back on screen after having played "Operation Intrude N313) and believes Big Boss betrayed him, or, it's another tape being played, perhaps N312, feels betrayed (becomes the "evil" one), and Big Boss sends Solid. But even this doesn't make sense because he wanted Solid to fail. The whole story doesn't make sense to me, or i'm just stupid for trying to figure out something that isn't there.
Finding out that venom snake was actually not big boss gave me so much respect for him because this formal medic was able to neutralize a squad of parasite induced humans that have become super humans able to kill an entire army and defeated a metallic titan that was able to summon metallic archaea from the ground in short the medic could be more dangerous then big boss himself
What really makes me appreciate Venom is that he isn't a clone, he isn't some product of Naked Snake who has his abilities, he is literally a completely different person who takes (unwillingly) the role of Big Boss, and lives up to his title.
@@notyourdaddude1957 true, venom was its own person with high skill set even to compare to the real big boss/jack, he was just manipulated and brainwashed into thinkin he is big boss but he still isnt genetic clone of big boss but rather highly skilled person with a good heart, venom snake is a chad
but you probably believed you were playing bigboss for a while, then its taken away, a phantom pain, but then you realize why can't you believe it anyways, and on top of that the actual bigboss makes it easier saying, "from now on, you're Big Boss" you the player who played snake eater and peace walker and acid, you lived big boss' life anyways, for all intents and purpose, Venom is Big Boss same as 2+2=5 in 1984
Does anyone else think that when Venom smashes the glass that Kojima should have made him age to how he would have looked in MG1? Cant help but feel that would have been better.
Marksman Dan yeah.... but 10 years wouldn’t make much of a difference. Remember he was only a mental clone, not a genetic, so Venom wouldn’t have aged rapidly as Solid Snake.
Err, I think the Medic was already older than Big Boss to begin with. Combined with the rough life style of being a soldier (not to mention god knows what he did to end up Demon-ed); that ages a guy. Would’ve been even better if we got to hear David Hayter at the very end though. Bring things full circle and whatnot.
As the years went on, I realized how much I love and respect venom snake. He's a way better person than Big Boss, he was loyal to Big Boss even though he fucked him over majorly, because he's so silent I can't help but be so intrigued of what he's thinking of the events that happen in front of his eyes, and I just feel really bad for him, a man with basically no choice but to throw his identity and life away to be a decoy for a horrible man that couldn't give less of a shit about his own soldiers. A very tragic character in a series full of them, and he's definitely one of my favorites.
Big Boss never acted with bad intents. He just tried to achieve another's will, one that he didn't understand, and it led to chaos. It was an unfortunate mistake with punishing consequences, but Big Boss was actually sorta like an anti-hero and not a villain.
I think this was the best way to make the player feel actually conflicted with real big boss, since MGS3 there was always the issue that Boss was such a likable character it was hard to see him become the laughing villain in MG1 and then feeling retconned to be more complex in MG2. This hit two birds with one stone, the MG1 Big Boss was Venom who’s whole purpose was to be the villain so he takes all attention off of real Big Boss, Venom was willing to literally become a demon to hold up a legend and isn’t the slightest offended that Big Boss basically betrayed him by leaving him to deal with skull face. The game kind of becomes meta with the phantom theme, and does add a symbolic nature to Skull Face; he knew he’d be erased and even though he had the biggest impact on events in the series canonically, no one would remember him but he didn’t care as long as the job was done, Venom is a mirror to that where he has one the biggest impacts on the series as he’s the original Big Boss we kill in MG1 yet his true identity is forgotten.
He didn't betray him, why he would destroy his own Outer Heaven ? He sends snake because he was a rookie, since he worked like a "double agent" in FoxHound, the Outer Heaven investigation was given to BigBoss, he was obligated to do something, in the end even Big Boss said he was not supposed to do all that... In metal gear on MSX.
@@technite5360Muzzle wasn't saying Venom was betrayed by Big Boss in regards to Outer Heaven, they were saying that Big Boss pretty much dumped Skull Face on Venom and just said "Sayonara" before vanishing. Pretty much dumping everything on Venom's lap to deal with while he messed around elsewhere in the world.
***** But why, i mean, i get that it was partly to protect big boss, but i still don't get why they wanted to make the double think that he is boss, when eventually he finds out that he isn't the real big boss. Also how the fuck is the double as good a soldier as big boss is, since big boss is the "perfect soldier". Is that from the brainwashing? Wasn't the whole point in "Les Infant Teribles" (probably spelled that wrong) to recreate multiple versions of Snake just because his skills were unique to him?
okay, thanks for refreshing my memory, im a bit rusty on my Metal Gear lore, so the point in creating the phantom was not only to protect boss and give him time to set things up, but also to root out Skull Face and kill him?
Yea your right this is because from when he finishes listening to the tape and you see him entering the scene again as ' Demon Snake ' there has been roughly 10 years ago. Its a very good time lapse.
I think the smoke at the end signifies he’s about to confront solid snake at least that’s what I would love to believe because it does make slot of sense of him being angry and finally seeing that he was being used the entire time not to mention outer heaven has gone to shit
If you look closely when he smashes the mirror you will notice that there’s no metal hand on the “other side” as well as no shrapnel in the head either, meaning that as he breaks the mirror and stares, the real big boss is staring back at him. I think this means that he has officially lost his own self to the persona of big boss. In other words, while “Venom” died at the hands of Solid Snake, the “Medic” died long before that.
It's not the "real" big boss in the mirror. When he breaks the mirror, there is a second him on the other side. You'll notice the eyepatch and horn flip because it went from reflection to model.
I like the symbolism at the end.... putting his bloodier "Venom" name to rest and becoming "Big Boss". He punches his blood-soaked reflection, which then turns into some blood around his horn... then completely clean with some visible scars when he walks away.... Notice the position of his horn and eye patch "switch sides" between the shards after he smashes the mirror? From a mirrored view to actual view.... As if he's destroying the realization that he was merely a reflection of someone else all along?
Donkey Lips Not only that, but he has his working eye again (uncovered), there is no shrapnel in his forehead and he even has his original human arm! All the things that he gave up or that were taken from him trying to serve Big Boss!
Look at 5:18 it's Outer Haven logo and I assume the gun shot outside Venom Snake room it's the intrusion of Solid Snake in Outer Haven base. Please make MG 1 and 2 remake.
Meta Critic Yes he wear diamond dog logo but if you play for the first time, you can see the intro where Venom Snake play the cassette on the right corner there written location at Outer Haven.
2:59 “Now do you remember? Who you are? What you were meant to do? I cheated death thanks to you. And thanks to you I’ve left my mark. You have too. You’ve written you own history. You’re your own man. I’m Big Boss. And you are too. No. He’s the two of us together. Where we are today, we built it. This story, this legend, it’s ours. We can change the world and with it the future. I am you and you are me. Carry that with you wherever you go. Thank you my friend. From here on out, you’re Big Boss.”
Upon re-watching this after having completed it last year, I think this scene is actually really damn good. The whole 'replaying the hospital mission again' thing can F right off though lol.
That shot of the DD logo suddenly being Outer Heaven was so powerful. Him being in Outer Heaven suddenly explains all the ruckus in the background: Solid Snake is completing his mission.
So this scene starts in 1984 on Motherbase, with Big Boss sending a tape to his brainwashed body double Venom Snake. Venom smiles at the message on the tape because he truly believes that Big Boss, (the man he revered enough to commit his military service to when he was a medic working at MSF in the 70s) has picked him and showered him in glory by selecting him to share the role of Big Boss. Venom smiles in 1984 to be praised so highly and given such an important role by his idol. He's been surgically altered to resemble Big Boss, hypnotized and trained into emulating him. He's brainwashed of course. He's been psychologically programmed to follow orders so that the real Big Boss can accomplish the job of setting up Outer Heaven free from the wrath of the superpowers and cipher. The tape flips and 10 years progress and the Venom that returns to mirror (now in Outer Heaven) is no longer smiling. He looks enraged. Maddeningly unhinged. But I think he's lucid enough to realize what's happening here. If you play mg1 you find that as Solid Snake you make your way through the fortress of Outer Heaven on your way to kill who you think is Big Boss (in fact it's Venom) . And the gunfire we hear at the start of the games opening scene is that moment in Outer Heaven in mg1. Solid Snake is closing in. Venom is backed into a corner. His defences have crumbled, his super weapons are all destroyed. If there was ever a moment for the real Big Boss to assist it's now. Venom knows the Big Boss has sent this rookie agent to Outer Heaven because he needs to convince the US government that he's not secretly supporting Outer Heaven. But with the new Outer Heaven complete Venom has become a loose end. So Big Boss is now using Solid Snake as a knife in the back of Venom. Big Boss is abandoning Venom to his fate because he's done with him. And Venom realizes this. That's where the rage comes from. Venom is enraged when he see's the mirror because he realizes that Big Boss was never really holding him esteem. Big Boss was never his friend. Big Boss used Venom as long as it was convinient. Like a human shield and a lap dog. Big Boss stays conviniently protected while Venom sits on the frotntlines and does the dirty work. Venom realizes that Solid Snake is coming to kill him in outer heaven, because Big Boss is done with him. Big Boss no longer needs him. So when Venom sees the face of the man who manipulated him, used him and then threw him away in the mirror, a man who he's become surgically altered to resemble, he destroys the visage in a gutteral rage. By the time The Phantom Pain ends Venom idolizes Big Boss. By the time Metal Gear 1 ends Venom hates Big Boss. Big Boss is not a good person. He uses soldiers, Venom included and throws them away to justify remaining in power. The same way the US Government used his mentor, The Boss and threw her life away, during Operation Snake Eater. Big Boss becomes the thing he hated. He betrays Miller, Venom, Diamond Dogs, Fox and eventually Outer Heaven. Treating soldiers as expendable pawns and turning them to kill each other in the name of protecting a political ideal, or sometimes even worse, to protect his own power.
America used The Boss to do their wet work and take all the blame. Big Boss used Venom to do their wet work and take all the blame. Venom used the soldiers we captured to do our wet work and risk their lives for the sake of Big Boss's legacy. This whole game is explained by the song The Man Who Sold The World because of the theme of Metal Gear Solid is that everyone is a spy and no one is telling the truth, manipulating everyone for a bigger picture. Big Boss is and is not a hero, Venom Snake is and is not a hero, Solid Snake is and is not a hero, they were all manipulated by their superiors to carry on a mission and get it done. This fucking game man, philosophical, cynical, romantic, and truly a Hideo Kojima game
The music at the end of this scene, where he looks into the mirror, punches it, and walks off into the darkness, is phenomenal. Reminds me of music from the band Godspeed You Black Emperor.
The more and more I watch this ending, the more I realise this might very well be the greatest story in a video-game I've ever seen. It left me hollow for a while sure... but once you know the truth you have to accept it. Big Boss was nothing more than a legend anymore. Even Naked Snake couldn't carry that title without burden. And sometimes the legacy is more important than the person. Here's to you Kojima you genius.
My interpretation of the mirror scene. Venom is down because 1, he literally lost himself (barely remembers who he was aside from a few fragments), and 2, he’s not the great super soldier he thought he was. However the tape for BB comes in to comfort him in saying “hey don’t worry, this character, this cult of personality is now yours too as you’ve managed to exceed our expectations, good job buddy!”. Venom feels a bit more reassured from the approval of BB and feels a bit more reassured of his new role. However, in the backside of the tape is BB’s plan for the first Outer Heaven. Venom inserts it in the console player and visualises its contents. The first Mother Base, the one managed by Venom, is a trial version for the second one in Metal Gear 2, BB’s true Outer Heaven. He sees how his whole operation is destroyed and he himself is killed. In a swift turn of events, Venom realises just whose mantel he just undertook: a monster (Demon Snake reflection). He isn’t the man he saw as a brother in arms, but a man deluded by his own legend to the point he is willing to sacrifice his own assets just to achieve his goals, him thinking that stripping Venom of his identity (and even stealing his’, because he can) is a great honour because he now has his title. Even the current events happened because BB back at MSF wanted to build a nuke, compromising their safety at the international theatre, and facilitating Skull Face’s plan to annihilate him. Even if it wasn’t Skull Face, it was just a matter of time until another group took him down. All these events up now came to happen, because of “the Sins of the Father”. With this realisation, instead of submitting to desperation, he decides to reject John’s image of BB (punches the mirror, i.e. his reflection), and decides to shape his own, of what BB truly should be, a hero of war, a brother in arms. BB’s legend is theirs, and therefore his, and as John took his identity from him, Venom will take BB’s in return. He even goes in direct opposition to John’s previous actions, with Venom unlocking the nuclear disarmament scenario (if it even is canon), also letting a little slip to John, “That’s what I - what we - will leave as our legacy” (probably reflecting in his mentality his true will for the BB legend). Then we have other things as characters from the franchise reflect characteristics from Venom’s Big Boss, and not John’s (for example Sniper Wolf). While Venom followed John’s directives and ultimately died, he had the last laugh in the end.
A lot of people have said "oh this game was a letdown because ur a clone and I thought u were ognna be shown about how Big Boss was Darth Sidious evil! Boo!" How is this not clear yet.? This ending is not just Kojima telling us we are Big Boss, the ending is more than that. By the end of Peacewalker he was already a monster. He was a wanted man that was ready to fight the world for fucksake. He had an army, a nuclear vehicle and everything. In the end of Peacewalker he realizes that The Boss gave her life for peace, he felt betrayed because she abandoned her "soldier pride". He realizes that the soldier in him can only live through battles and war. As a person, Venom is discarded of everything he ever had. He's now used as a tool, a decoy, a target for the world while the real one hides to build his master plan, pretty selfish don't you think? Remember another soldier who got used for means to ends? Yep, they go by the title of THE BOSS. Venom in this case turns into The Boss, while Big Boss becomes the equivalent of what killed her. Using soldiers as tools to carry on master plans? What did Big Boss do after waking up in a coma? Did he even care that Mother Base fell? Most of the crew died? Paz and Chico are dead? Miller is broken? Venom saved his life and lost 9 years, a limb and an eye? No, instead he quickly discards them, uses them and just sets off to plan new things. If that wasn't villainous I don't know what is.
yessss! that thing about MEN BECOMING DEMONS... they were already demons... using peoples lives like tools for other plans! MGSV gives more impact in the final moment between big boss and solid when the first tell the other that YOU ARE NO MORE A TOOL FOR ANYONE, FORGET ABOUT US, LIVE YOUR LIFE... and THE WORLD WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT SNAKES..... :'(
***** Oh my God.... There's about 2,000 different excuses to how TPP's story is secretly brilliant, and about 3 of them have some degree of merit. Your reason is not on of them
***** Okay. DO you want me to link you a few video that rip the story of TPP apart? Some even compliment some aspects. We know what Koima's intentions are. He failed miserably to convey those themes with his one note characters, pre-destined actions from characters, and lack of a cohesive narrative.
He is right about the real big boss being a monster though, watch the vid again when he flips the tape over look whats written on it "operation intrude" (Metal Gear on msx solid snakes first mission is called "operation intrude", the bitcorder is plugged into an MSX console just to ram home the point). Essentially the only message that he could have got from the real big boss was "time to die" essentially (Venoms death would make everyone believe Big Boss was dead). At the point snake is going to confront Venom nobody knows Big Boss is calling the shots since he is your CO throughout the game on the radio (Roy Campbell takes over in Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake) and you can't reach him at all at this point (he's done a runner to hide the fact there were 2 big boss's). At this point the real Big Boss had become just like the politicians who had sent The Boss to die as a scapegoat to hide their involvement and Venom is The Boss substitute.
Man beating this game made me feel... ...used. This game wasn't Big Boss' descent into evil this game was a showcase for how evil he has become. Betraying and stripping the identity of a soldier who pledged his loyalty to him shows how similar Big Boss is to those governments who use their soldiers as pawns. Venom Snake lost everything in this game; he lost his face, his identity, his love and perhaps saddest of all his voice. Big Boss is an asshole a man who would sell the world just for his petty revenge. Goddamn this was definitely a Hideo Kojima Game.
don’t be stupid man, i don’t understand how so many people don’t understand the real purpose of this ending and the franchise, Big Boss didn’t use anyone Venom wasn’t a tool used by Big Boss both were fighting for the same cause, overthrowing Cipher and freeing the world from your domain, Solid Snake was not a good guy, he was just a tool from Cipher, if you think Big Boss is really the village then you need to pay more attention to the game's plot, play MG1, MG2 and MGS2 and you will understand
@beep boop Beep dude how does the game show Big Boss becoming a villain if the game is not even played by him? tell me what makes you think he's a villain? Kojima said that in an interview precisely to hide the plot that was actually Venom and not Naked Snake, there are still people who believe that Big Boss is a villain in 2020, lmao
I'm disappointed how majority of people don't get the message of the ending. This just proves that some of the fans haven't played the two original Metal Gear's . That's why they are sooo upset.
You just have to bite the bullet and accept the fact that you don't play Big Boss. But there are greater messages that people don't look at becuz they are pissed. Yes, it sucks you aren't the real big boss but suck it up
you are such a fucking noob. you think you know the story SO Well yet you're probably reading the threads like we all are trying to make sense of this Fecal matter
maaan. I keep watching this video because theres so much to see. That ending is both epic and bittersweet. Venom snake is the one true hero in MGS. I don't care that he wasn't BB. Because we made him BB. I know theres supposed to be more but its soo epic how he walked into the fog in the end. So symbolic. I'll love this and the soldier funeral scene forever. Best game ever. Worst execution ever. Best character ever. Worst locations ever. Best development ever. Worst boss ever. Greatest mechs ever. Best love interest ever. I'd take Quiet over Emma and Meryll anyday.
I remember a few fans whining and complaining "So sad...Venom Snake didn't CHOOSE this, it was FORCED on him, he never WANTED IT!!!! WAAAAHHH!!!" but that is kind of proof a lot of them don't pay attention to the game. For one, Venom Snake left his WHOLE LIFE to go follow Big Boss (Naked Snake) and was one of his most skilled and trusted soldiers. He admired and loved Big Boss. They also forget that once he remembers, before he breaks the mirror (which you can interpret 100 different ways), this right here: 3:39 Venom Snake nods approvingly. He BELIEVES in Big Boss' goal and his plan. He supports this. 3: 53 Venom Snake smiles. It's an HONOR to him to carry the title of Big Boss. It's beyond a promotion. 4:00 Venom Snake often looks down or straight forward but never with his head up high and proud. But now he does. He believes in himself. It's a case of "If Big Boss believes in me...then I believe in me". He has much more confidence and pride now. Y'all will never convince me that Venom Snake didn't take this approvingly, admire the cleverness of how it was done, consider it an honor and a boost to his confidence that he was selected to be Naked Snake's equal. He became his partner. He was trusted with EVERYTHING. The name, the legacy, the soldiers...everything. It didn't turn out well but Venom Snake was no simple "victim". He was a victor, in his own way.
Venom Snake should've won the fight with Solid Snake, since he's the ONLY player character in the MGS series that can move while aiming a damn gun, alongside MGR:R Raiden, and Old Snake, but that doesn't count since he's a fossil by then.
say what you want about the story and content but this scene alone for me makes the whole game and depictes the OG metal gear on a brand new light. Phantom is a tragic and heroic character, even more than Big Boss. He sacrificed his own life for Diamond Dogs and big boss in order for him to establish his vision. people might not see it, but in the end we recognise how evil and twisted Big Boss became to pursue his morals and beliefs. He was a piece of shit for letting the medic to be used like that, unfortunately he was so up Big Boss' ass to realize it. Poor Venom Snake, The real and only hero of the metal gear saga
Venom is more hero than Solid Snake & Big Boss tbh. Solid Snake is fighting in the wrong side. he is just following orders. in my opinion Venom Snake is the only hero in MGSV
+Mr.Mugen93 Venom IS Big Boss . For all intents and purposes he reacts exactly like how real Big Boss would react in those situations . Listen to the truth tapes again as Ocelot confirms that he simply isn't a body double and that "medic" died back in Ground Zeroes. Venom is Big Boss's memetic clone meaning that he has the same knowledge and experience as the real one . Remember how Les Enfacts terribles was the cause of Big Boss leaving Zero and starting a war with him? Yet in this game Big Boss embraces that same concept and turns one of his best men into himself . And this can be compared to what the government did to Boss in MGS 3 . So Big Boss essentially ends up becoming like the thing that he hated back in MGS3 . This game gives closure to Big boss's character but most people seems to have completely missed it .
+Kent Wong i love how people act like this was so deep. this didnt go over anyones head. it was just dumb and a cop out. the game was advertised as big boss' downfall. every trailer was deceptively made to look like this is what was happening. and honestly, some of the fan theories that came out of these ideas, were better then the story in the actual game. inb4 "lolol kojima is troll though. remember mgs2 raiden" yea, except the only thing we didnt get was to play as the character we thought we'd be playing as. the whole story didnt say "im going to point a" only to go directly to point B the whole time. also, raiden may have been suppose to represent us in a basic form but he was a character of his own right who had character development and was relevant in later games. not to mention that we realize we're playing as him 5 minutes after he's introduced. in this game we play hours and hours thinking we're big boss and that what we're doing is relevant to his story, then it turns out we're playing as some nobody.
In essence when he says - "from here on out... YOU'RE Big Boss - means all of us as gamers who played this game. Very symbolic. Kojima made this for the fans. Cheers!
Man I fucking loved Venom Snake, he deserved better than what he got. But tbh most of Big Boss's legend can be attributed to V, that ending as he walks out into the darkness to face Solid Snake is fucking beautifully badass and tragic at the same time.
The tape that Venom puts in the player after Naked Snakes speech says "Operation Intrude N312" which is the operation where Solid Snake infiltrate Outer Heaven to save Gray Fox and kills Big Boss but It's actually Venom that Solid kills.
During this ending, while Venom looks at himself in the mirror some gunshots are heard. I was confused as to what was happening until I saw it. "Operation Intrude N313" tape. That's freaking Solid Snake that's coming for him. Holy crap. And the moment gets even more awesome if your base is full of those S rank soldiers. Cause Solid fuc*king Snake is about to freaking slaughter ALL OF THEM. Makes me wish for Metal Gear 1 and 2 but in 3D.
.its perfect the more you think about it the more brilliant it becomes. ultimately what is Big boss , big boss is a legend that was made not born the title big boss is iconic its legendary its a idea , its a symbol a rallying cry to all who live on the battlefield . but as the series has shown us its not genes that make the man, venom may not be JACK but he is BIG BOSS the nation building legend of the battlefield and no one is more fitting to full that role than ME ,,YOU....and every other fan out there , we have been with big boss since the very beginning , we are his most trusted we are venom . ..the title of big boss was handed to venom and also to the player ...... Venom And Naked snake may ultimately not be the same person but Venom is BIG BOSS !!!! .....why does the medic have all big bosses memories some will ask ?? well cos we have those memories us THE PLAYER share all have been though what big boss has been though we are the only person capable of becoming his phantom .....its kojima at his finest its a shame it will be lost on a lot of fans ...
+ROSSONERI 108 But it screws up the rest of the story. Liquid never met the real BB. Zero and BB never had a big war or anything. BB was not evil. Venom wasn't even evil. We were told we would see BB become a villain and neither him nor Venom become evil. BB has less on sceen time in this game than in MGS4. If this technology is available, then why have LET? Why make clones when you could just make a body double. The ending only fixes one plothole in the series and makes 10 more in the process. And Nobody really cared how BB survived in MG1. it was an 8-bit game. Anything happened in them. I get what Kojima was going for. We are all Big Boss. But in the process, he fucked up the other games. It degrades Big Boss as a character knowing half of his achievements were actually completed by a body double. And the body double isn't even genetically related to BB. And by making Venom do BB's bidding, he makes BB look like a little pussy who sits back and lets others do the work for him. What is the metaphor for the "demon horn" and "tail"? They represent fucking nothing because BB did nothing wrong. This ending is fine the first time you see it but after it sinks in, you realize that it fucking sucks.
ROSSONERI 108 But this doesn't make BB look evil. It makes him look like a pussy. The horn and tail represent nothing because Neither Venom or BB are evil.
there no such thing as evil its all about prospective and shades of however it does make him look very bad....big boss uses the man who saved his life to build his legacy while he builds a military nation .....he is so tied up in his twisted vision of revenge and misrepresentation of the bosses will he will lie, manipulate who ever he needs to ....it doesnt make him look like a bitch it makes him look like a true villain ...true villains operate in the background using others to do there will ...thats what we learn here ...big boss has fallen deeper than we thought he could ....... naked snake - a soldier fooled into assassinating his own mentor , a man who gets others to do his dirty work , a liar whos very legend is built by those around him and shouded in exaggeration !!....a monster who uses everyone at any cost to furful his own twisted misrepresentation of his mentors will..........VENOM SNAKE a man Who remained loyal and un breakable despite having his identity stolen from him ... . A warrior who acts with nobility and selflessness . A solider who's skill on the battlefield became the reality of the myth .A snake unlike any other the real NATION BUILDING HERO AND LEGEND OF THE BATTLEFIELD . the real BIG BOSS!!! . .
+SuperLemonBomb Lemon ignore this idiot, this ending sucked. I remember reading an interview whereit quoted kojima saying "this game will show big boss becoming an evil to the world" Not even venom turned evil in this game.
First of all do not call me a fucking idiot Marc i'm only explaining how the history of the characters and how the ending affects the lore the franchise. I am not defending the games story or the games ending the phantom pain was the worst metal gear solid game in that regard. Venom isnit supposed to turn evil you are keen to call me an idiot but it's you who is missing the point . Before the phantom pain big bosses history in the 80s was always a huge contradiction to him becoming a villain due to his selfless heroic actions in the Mozambique civil war etc
@Týr In the game, if you kill a lot of people you become permanently covered in blood and the shrapnel in your head becomes larger. It's implying that Venom went full Demon Snake and did a lot of horrible shit. Him punching the mirror is open to interpretation i guess, but in my opinion it's the realisation of what he has become and how far he has strayed from who he was.
I really like this ending, probably the best ending in a videogame and the best ending for MGS. The true meaning is people tried to create the perfect soldier after Big Boss. First with the genetic (enfantes terrible), with nanomachines (next generation soldiers) , with the robotics (ninja/Raiden), and in the end with the AI. But only few (the boss, big boss) understood the only way to create the perfect soldier is give him the right motivation, the right values and goals and a right support. The Boss did this to Big Boss, Big Boss did it with Venom Snake, people (gamers) did it with Solid Snake. So everyone can be a legend with this values, that's why Venom avatar start being just one of us.
I like how in the background there is gunshots and explosions sounds why because it’s solid snake in the base attacking them when venom snake smashes the mirror the bottom left logo changes to diamond dogs to outer heaven logo knowing venom snake is doom and is prepared to defend himself the moment when big boss said now do you remember then when venom snake puts the cassette in the time changes to outer heaven year and timeline when the msx console showed I got excited and knew mgs 1 would happend the msx version plus big boss wanted solid snake to fail the mission and die cause big boss didn't want solid snake and liquid snake without his permission zero went in the plan to make extra copies of big boss miller trusted solid snake and trained him but as years went by ocelot killed him at the end credits he did mention one person had to be killed or get killed
The last minute tease with “operation n313” being obscured somehow is better to me than if they flat out showed the full title. The mirror punch is the perfect capstone, gets me every time!
it's been truly an honor to play this absolutely beautiful timeline that Kojima has masterfully stitched together through out the years. across multiple consoles and years in between. I played TPP when it first came out but only until today did I realize that the ending scene is Solid Snake coming for Venom. I have watched the ending scene many times but I was unable make the connection to MSX. the tape makes so much sense now. Kojima put the truth right in front of us. for years I have been living with this "phantom pain" not making the connection. but now I remember.... I am Big Boss..... and so are you...
Even his hair has gray spots on this scene ( 3:32 ) Some time has gone by, plus the Intrude N313 tape almost at the end, he goes back to the mirror and the horn got higher (meaning at that point he fully became a demon). Remember the "previous operations" files in MGS1 where the text says soldiers describe Big Boss as both a hero and a lunatic. So when you see that horn getting bigger, even more time has gone by, the same scenes portrays 2 different years. When he leaves the room, either N313 is about to start (I support this idea more because he had just set the tape in the recorder and in Mother Base they have a habit of recording every radio conversation), or Venom is about to go face to face with Solid Snake. Also, on a side note, Mother Base is in the middle of the ocean, and the first ever MG game (MSX) starts with Snake swimming and climbing a fence to complete infiltration, so I can only imagine the location of the first game is Mother Base itself, they just changed the name from Diamond Dogs to Outer Heaven so no one thought BB, now in command of Foxhound, was managing it also
i can't see this scene really praising the idea of "big boss" and the player's participation in creating it when snake shows up in demon mode at the end, punching his own reflection. all of big boss' karma leaked into venom, and he's worse off because of it.
I love this ending. It's like saying goodbye to the father I never had the chance to have. And it means so much to me. He taught me things my real dad probably never could have.
iDroid: Mirror has been broken
[GMP: -50]
+Mr Chap 'sup?
+Mr Chap xD As a farewell message from Kojima and how it goes in with the other games, I really like this ending
:)
***** I saw yeah. #FucKonami We all support Big Bo-- I mean...Kojima and his team now. And we're fighting Cipher...Konami. Kinda funny, I had a feeling Kojima would do something like this for years.
Good one :)
+Megajon so in the end, we the players are Venom Snake, and Kojima is Big Boss that this Legend (Game Series) Is ours forever even though Cipher the Patriots (Konami) Have control. now that you clarified that with me I officially declare this game my favorite game! thanks man!
I kinda love how Venom Snake, whom we think is the real BB, walks towards his smoky destiny to face his demise(Solid Snake) truly completing the entire saga!
***** For me the story was over with MGS4, there shouldn't have been anything else after that. MGS4 was my favorite by the way
I love MGSV because it fleshed out MGS4 and made me appreciate 4's story even more now with the true details of that mess of a story
In my personal opinion the saga should have ended with MGS4. The story was complete then.
I take him walking into the smoke as him walking back into the current life he has, not the fight with solid, because the door logo changes back to diamond dogs after it shows outer heaven.
broman 1449 Yes, it's literally before the very first old MG game.
Damn, it gives me goosebumps seeing the Outer Heaven logo in the mirror when he breaks it, I can imagine him walking to the other room confronting Solid Snake.
REVOLVER-BOSS-27 Then got his ass handed with a lighter and spray.
would be interesting but the fact that he has an emblem of DD all the time on his shoulder kind of contradicts it
@@pentlik bro he puts in the cassette Operation intrude N131 which is the game Metal Gear
@@revolver-boss-2796 of course, but it doesnt have to mean it's from that time. I would rather quess that it's still not long after end of TPP. nothing except from the logo of outer heaven, which i think has only allegorical sense here (next role of venom) points that time passed between two cassettes. And the fact that he still wears DD uniform completely kills interpretation that is just before fighting Solid Snake
@@pentlik at the end of the day it’s very ambiguous and up to the player to decide. I think either way it doesn’t really matter if it’s in the past or not. The player knows what is being referenced and what is to come. He could be in the past, he could be wearing the DD patch perhaps for sentimental reasons; idk. Again either way I think the point and impact is the same.
Ironic really, Skullface was deprived of his identity, and so was medic boss.
"From Fox, two phantoms were born."
Skullface lived in the shadow of Zero, while Venom was the shadow of Big Boss.
Crazy how this was hinted in the first ever trailer of MGS Ground Zeroes in 2012.... Kojima is one smart bastard.....
FOX and XOF. Skull Face is the ugly reflection of the image of Big Boss
When Ocelot says "Don't worry he can handle it." because (in a slight 4th wall break) he knows YOU the player can handle it. The whole point of Venom was that, (assuming you created yourself with the character creator) YOU are Venom, and YOU are Big Boss's best man because YOU have been there with him his entire life because YOU played all the games. Before MGSV, you were by all accounts, ACTUALLY Big Boss because you played his life. The speech from Big Boss over from the cassette more than just wrapping up the plot points it is Hideo Kojima telling the fans of the series "I'm Big Boss and you are too, he's the two of us together. Where we are today we built it" and "Thank you my friend" for sticking with his series for this long, knowing he was on his way out of Konami. Kojima is telling the fans we are all as cool, idealistic and badass as Big Boss because we are his Phantom. Such a great ending
Best....comment....ever....
and the award for best ever speech goes to tdizz88 congratulations
Beautiful. Knowing that makes this ending so much better. Too bad it had to end like this, being cut short, the game missing a whole chapter. Would have been cool to have played as Naked Snake in a squeal and create outer heaven.
Venom Snake was Gray Fox the entire time.
What he said is actually the truth.
Throughout the entire cutscene, one can notice that the door behind Venom has the Diamond Dogs logo. However, at 5:18, look closely in the mirror, bottom left. It changed to the Outer Heaven logo. I fucking love these small references!
+james dean the time jump actually happens when he flips over the cassette tape. the other side is labeled Operation Intrude N131.
+Michael R N313*
I'm surprised you saw that o.O! The first thing I noticed after he smashed the mirror was how his prosthetic was all of a sudden a normal arm o.o
+NovaSeraAngel | The Catholic Gamer Disappointing?
Also the eye patch switched sides.
6 years later and still one of the best and craziest game narrative I've ever seen.
Death Standing is not a trip, lol 😂
plus it seems there's always more little details and nuances to be discovered. Blows my mind.
this cutscene changed me
@@BigBoss-zi6tj same. It's kind of silly but when I find myself in a tough situation I think back to this. I'm big boss. I carry that with me wherever I go.
Of course that might be because I played this game when I was 14 and it left a big impact on me.
@@germantarnoski7130 I really love it how no one cares about age restrictions on games :)
The fact that all that panic in Outer Heaven is caused by a "green" 20 years old guy on his first mission that despite being given false information and intel for the whole mission he is still trashing the entire place is kinda funny in a sad way.
Well he is a big boss clone, so he’s got the skillz
should have replaced E ranked staff long ago
@@zortlungac3846 they’re all sss, snakes just built different (literally)
And ridiculous, solid should be dead
I didn't know this sence takes a place at 1995. So this is the moment before Venom dies. Before Solid Snake kills him.
I really feel bad for Venom Snake. He was the most pute heart guy.
The first part takes place in 1984, because the diamond dogs logo is on the door at first. When he flips the cassette to "operation intrude n313", the logo on the door changes, showing that 10 years have passed. When he turns around and walks away, that's when he's on his way to face solid
All he wanted to do was to be a medic, not a front line leader
You're comment gave me a huge mind blowing realisation..... damn
@@subpain4257 true, and the funny part is that he is meant to be us, the player xD. That's what I loved about TPP, they managed to incorporate that into true game well, us being big boss
It's hard to believe since venom doesn't have any grey hair and he still looks like he's in his prime where he could snap solid in two
When in reality Big boss uses Venom just like USA used Big boss.
Well i mean... it's was Zero who did that. Snake pretty much have to work things out
@@andrescaceres2822 There's no reason Big Boss couldn't have come out of hiding and told Venom and Miller the truth. Instead he's complicit in using him
Can't argue with that. Venom as well as Quiet got used by people around them.
That's what they call a character arc.
No he isn't. This is what Venom wants. He even acknowledges it in the nuclear ending and it's also echoed by Ocelot as well.
It's Miller who is enraged for no reason at the fact Big Boss wants nothing to do with him after his betrayal which led Zero and Paz right to him and caused the destruction of MSF
The explosions and gunfire in the background, that is Solid Snake attacking. Phantom Snake knows this is his last moments alive, notice how the logo on the door changes from Diamond Dogs to Outer Heaven after Phantom smashes the mirror.
+Ash halo Let's be real, in terms of how this ending changes things, Big Boss sent Solid Snake - the supposed 'weaker one' of LET - to die. He was making sure the loose ends got cleared up, presuming Liquid dead already thanks to the Kingdom of the Flies, and didn't know about Solidus.
Oh damn, never cought that. Very interesting
Imo when he played the operation intrude tape at 4:29 or something sorry if I messed the timestamp, it symbolises the 10 years timeskip and that he succeeded over solid in the end the smoke was of the gunpowder consumed by their weapons in that combat. Well that's just my opinion and I personally believe it since I love venom haha
@@AppyTheApe you can think that but remember, Solid Snake ends up defeating BB so it wouldn’t make sense Venom killed him
@@SonTaicario I'm well aware of that mate, I was really high while writing that shit lol. But tbh it feels really good to think that way haha. Either that excuse to satisfy myself, or else tell myself that "Venom died when he was around 60 years of age so it's fine solid was pretty young, atleast lived half century." so I don't feel sad.
Girls in front of a mirror:
Ew, I'm so ugly, I need more makeup.
Boys in front of a mirror:
Men
Noah Leopold *gods
*Men with demons in front of a mirror* Would be more truthful.
ha joke’s on you. I don’t wear makeup.
Maribor Forest nothing can solve your stupidity
Gives me chills at the very end as Venom walks away, knowing that he's facing his potential death at Solid Snake's hands.
Im new to this why would solid snake want to kill venom?
Diogo Santos because he was sent to kill “big boss” if I remember correctly
@@minaajoku1169 by who?
@@DiogoSantos-lz5ii by big boss. have u played og metal gear ?
@@Atok1111 i havent i only played mgsv and mgs4 and loved both and wanted to learn e bit of tjhe story :D
One of the most badass cutscene in gaming history.
Without any fighting or action, just by camera work and narration.
This happens to me sometimes when I am drunk
You realise that you're a phantom? 0.0
supahtyp you break mirrors?
You became a demon and go into smoke.
I'm dead
You get killed by Solid Snake?
Still get chills 4 years later
5* now
Especially that audio stinger at around 1:50-2:00. I felt my goosebumps rise up my back as that happened.
It's 8 now
This game is Kojima's way of formally crowning you the name of Big Boss. We are all Big Boss, we are the legend.
+TheMegagamer72
Sounds like a cult. :B
+TheMegagamer72 But we all be killed by a rookie named Solid Snake :/
Maybe we are still allive.only Kojima knows that^^
We are not Big Boss, we are Phantom Boss
+TheMegagamer72 you are all puppets for a heartless man that used his best friend as bait so he could be free to chain the world. Hurray!
For those who don't understand.
When Big Boss talks to Venom he is telling you that you achievements are his too. You and Big Boss are one. You took Big Boss's Identity and Big Boss took yours (name, birthday and your face) You Ahab are the reason that Outer Heaven is very popular and infamous. Because you build it from zero. One way or another Outer Heaven was created by you/Big Boss.
When Venom flips the tape... 10 years has passed. Big Boss informs Venom about Solid Snake's arrival with the tape of Operation Intrude N313. Venom has killed many people through-out the years leaving his horn to ultimately have it's final form. Venom gets ready to fight the son of Big Boss. When Venom sees himself on the mirror, he finally see that he has lost everything he had. He lost his identity, his memories, his love interest(Quiet), his comrades and his sanity. All he has left is war and loyalty to Big Boss.
He smashes the window because he doesn't like what he's become. When Venom turns around he returns to the past (1984) because the next adventure lies in Metal Gear for MSX.
For those who say "But this was suppose to be about Big Boss's descend to villainy."
I think you forgot that at the end of MGS4, Big Boss says that ever since he killed his mentor The Boss. He has already been dead. In Peace Walker Big Boss took the title that the CIA gave him a decade ago and created Outer Heaven at the same time. Big Boss predicted that they were going to be head hunted after the Peace Walker incident.
Big Boss is already corrupted because he is mis-understanding the will of The Boss leaving him to do reckless choices. Big Boss was never a bad guy...he simply didn't understand what his mentor wanted after all these years...leaving Big Boss to look like a bad guy,
+Omars510 Damn thanks!
you sir just made sense of this to me. i will stop complaining. because you did it without insulting the ones who don't like the ending....I'm now indifferent
+Omars510 Strong post
Now I get it.
What about him saying to Solid Snake at the final battle that War is everything? Suprassing all pleasures of life? About how war will be needed in the world for a soldier's paradise? And how he was going to raise child soldiers? "They'll make fine soldiers in the next war..." That is evil. He misunderstood the Boss's will and that made him into a villain.
Venom Snake had the most tragic life of all the snakes. Forced to live in the shadows of another man, forced to kill his own men, and fought Cipher, then dies and is forever forgotten. Meanwhile cowardice Naked Snake gets all the credit and has no shame creating a phantom for his own selfishness protection.
at least he didn't die as a roasted chicken like Solidus in MGS4 :P
He isn't forgetten we are "the player" gonna remember him in our memories
Not big Boss created the phantom!
It was Major Zero and ocelot.
Orig. Big Boss was in coma too, while he was brainwashed. But he took the Gift they made him, and tried to do what he had too...
and his legacy isn‘t forgotten! He also is Big Boss
@DimebagVision what
@DimebagVision Dude calm the fuck down
so, analyzing the final cutscene something comes to my mind.
The change of logo on the door behind Venom indicates that some time passed away between the moment in which Venom hears "From the man who sold the world" cassette side, and the moment in which he hears the "Operation Intrude n 313" cassette side, or the logo change is just allegorical?
If the first hypotesis is true, this would mean that Venom remembers who he really is long before the moment in which he has to face Solid Snake.
Anyway, all that blood on his face shows clearly that he had to fight too many battles, becoming a demon to let Big Boss achieve his plan. He understands he's been used, and get angry.
But what is shown also in this ending is that Kojima rewards us with the title of Big Boss, for having been loyal to his masterpiece all over the years.
I have to say...after 28 years, I felt like I lived the end of an era.
Thank you mr Kojima, for having given us such a great piece of ART.
*Military salute*
o7
In this scene, moreover your details, occurred transition to first metal gear events, and Venom Snake downald Operation 313 on MSX competer from Solid Snake... Realy genius!
2020 Just finished this game, I feel the same, an era has ended for me.
@@smirnovwhycinema1760 yes, several years go by...and Venom realises he has been "sold" too by "the man who sold the world". This is why I prefer Venom Snake over Big Boss, I think that in MGSV Kojima needed to clarify more that Big Boss was not a hero like everyone was saying after MGS3, but he chose a wrong path. Only true heroes in the saga are Solid Snake and The Boss, and I would put even Revolver Ocelot in the list, even if in a much more ambyguous way
@@dbstop9194 that's it, man :(
So this Big Boss is the big boss we kill in Metal Gear? And the real Big Boss is the one that appears in MG2 and returns at the end of MGS4?
So the real Big Boss had Solid Snake kill this Big Boss? Haha pretty funny actually
The "Big Boss" in MG1's Outer Heaven is actually Venom Snake. The real Big Boss is the one in MG2's Zanzibarland.
I doubt that the real Big Boss had Solid Snake kill Venom Snake. Notice in this video that Big Boss sent Venom Snake a tape that presumably contained the details of Operation Intrude N313. My theory is that Big Boss was warning Venom Snake that he had sent Solid Snake out on a mission to kill him. But Big Boss probably thought that Venom Snake could take down a rookie Solid Snake. But alas, that didn't happen. Both Big Boss and Venom Snake underestimated Solid Snake.
+brightsuperstition there's many theories you could make on this. Either Big Boss wanted to test his son (he didn't care about them as his sons) or he wanted to test Venom, or Venom had his own agenda (that's why he sent Gray Fox first who is FOXHOUND's best agent)....
I think that part should remain as mystery, because then it's your decision, because Venom Snake is you but he's also Big Boss. You can decide what happened with yourself. Did you go against Big Boss and that's why Solid Snake beat you? Or were you in team work with Big Boss all the way?
+Jake Harries Solid Snake wasn't supposed to succeed in his first mission.
+Zillionjape It's a fact Big Boss has never liked his "sons", so we can assume he wanted Solid dead. But then, why did he send Gray Fox? If he truly was considered the best Foxhound agent, can we also assume he wanted Venom dead? This ending, imo, either suggests he survived after Solid (hence why he comes back on screen after having played "Operation Intrude N313) and believes Big Boss betrayed him, or, it's another tape being played, perhaps N312, feels betrayed (becomes the "evil" one), and Big Boss sends Solid. But even this doesn't make sense because he wanted Solid to fail.
The whole story doesn't make sense to me, or i'm just stupid for trying to figure out something that isn't there.
We are all Demons. We are all, Phantoms of the Big Boss.
+darnoc001 We are all Phantoms of JOHN CENAAA
+RisingJericho duh duhnah ahhh
+Joseph Hopkins du du du duuuuuuuuw
You fool
Have you played the game?
5:07
Mirror destroyed.
-300 GMP
Haha! I've actually played the ending to many times. I must be broke now
motherbase is now in the red
S++ leaves
Maybe it is just a window 5:17
Finding out that venom snake was actually not big boss gave me so much respect for him because this formal medic was able to neutralize a squad of parasite induced humans that have become super humans able to kill an entire army and defeated a metallic titan that was able to summon metallic archaea from the ground in short the medic could be more dangerous then big boss himself
Not only dangerous, but kind, and tried to do what's right.
@@spikey288 Until Solid came.....poor Venom
What really makes me appreciate Venom is that he isn't a clone, he isn't some product of Naked Snake who has his abilities, he is literally a completely different person who takes (unwillingly) the role of Big Boss, and lives up to his title.
@@notyourdaddude1957 true, venom was its own person with high skill set even to compare to the real big boss/jack, he was just manipulated and brainwashed into thinkin he is big boss but he still isnt genetic clone of big boss but rather highly skilled person with a good heart, venom snake is a chad
Even though we didn't play as big boss, you have to admit. Venom Snake was a badass. Too bad he didn't talk much :l
its part of playing the phantom and feeling the phantom pain
@@TheProfesionalGamerGGN Or just Kiefer Sutherland costing too much
Surprisingly he has quite a bit of dialogue in the game and when he does talk it's just bad ass.
but you probably believed you were playing bigboss for a while, then its taken away, a phantom pain, but then you realize why can't you believe it anyways, and on top of that the actual bigboss makes it easier saying, "from now on, you're Big Boss" you the player who played snake eater and peace walker and acid, you lived big boss' life anyways, for all intents and purpose, Venom is Big Boss same as 2+2=5 in 1984
That's so you can immerse yourself in the role of Big Boss, that's his whole point and why he doesn't talk much
Does anyone else think that when Venom smashes the glass that Kojima should have made him age to how he would have looked in MG1? Cant help but feel that would have been better.
Marksman Dan yeah.... but 10 years wouldn’t make much of a difference. Remember he was only a mental clone, not a genetic, so Venom wouldn’t have aged rapidly as Solid Snake.
Err, I think the Medic was already older than Big Boss to begin with. Combined with the rough life style of being a soldier (not to mention god knows what he did to end up Demon-ed); that ages a guy. Would’ve been even better if we got to hear David Hayter at the very end though. Bring things full circle and whatnot.
narutardkyuubi he looked younger than big boss but I’m sure it doesn’t really matter. He still plays the role just fine.
The mirror represents the fourth wall
@@joshf9736 How?
As the years went on, I realized how much I love and respect venom snake. He's a way better person than Big Boss, he was loyal to Big Boss even though he fucked him over majorly, because he's so silent I can't help but be so intrigued of what he's thinking of the events that happen in front of his eyes, and I just feel really bad for him, a man with basically no choice but to throw his identity and life away to be a decoy for a horrible man that couldn't give less of a shit about his own soldiers. A very tragic character in a series full of them, and he's definitely one of my favorites.
Big Boss cares about his soliders. However, he realized he needed to make certain compromises to build his nation. Love that character development
but he's still big boss's most loyal dog , a solider who knows nothing else in life but war
It wasn't Big Boss decision, it was Zero's. BB didn't even liked the ideia of his friend taking his place.
You got Big Boss’s morals and ideas all wrong, brother. Do a deep dive into more of his lore and life.
Big Boss never acted with bad intents. He just tried to achieve another's will, one that he didn't understand, and it led to chaos. It was an unfortunate mistake with punishing consequences, but Big Boss was actually sorta like an anti-hero and not a villain.
I think this was the best way to make the player feel actually conflicted with real big boss, since MGS3 there was always the issue that Boss was such a likable character it was hard to see him become the laughing villain in MG1 and then feeling retconned to be more complex in MG2. This hit two birds with one stone, the MG1 Big Boss was Venom who’s whole purpose was to be the villain so he takes all attention off of real Big Boss, Venom was willing to literally become a demon to hold up a legend and isn’t the slightest offended that Big Boss basically betrayed him by leaving him to deal with skull face.
The game kind of becomes meta with the phantom theme, and does add a symbolic nature to Skull Face; he knew he’d be erased and even though he had the biggest impact on events in the series canonically, no one would remember him but he didn’t care as long as the job was done, Venom is a mirror to that where he has one the biggest impacts on the series as he’s the original Big Boss we kill in MG1 yet his true identity is forgotten.
Man, that's true
Almost every bad thing that happened in the Metal Gear games is Thanks to Skull Face
@@mateoreyes6921 i mean it was mainly due to volgin doing a dumb prank that got the boss shot
He didn't betray him, why he would destroy his own Outer Heaven ? He sends snake because he was a rookie, since he worked like a "double agent" in FoxHound, the Outer Heaven investigation was given to BigBoss, he was obligated to do something, in the end even Big Boss said he was not supposed to do all that... In metal gear on MSX.
@@technite5360Muzzle wasn't saying Venom was betrayed by Big Boss in regards to Outer Heaven, they were saying that Big Boss pretty much dumped Skull Face on Venom and just said "Sayonara" before vanishing. Pretty much dumping everything on Venom's lap to deal with while he messed around elsewhere in the world.
i think my brain just shat itself.
fuck KONAMI
***** i just wish it could have been explained a little better
***** i know, I just don't get how they managed to give him Bosses memories and his exact face.
***** But why, i mean, i get that it was partly to protect big boss, but i still don't get why they wanted to make the double think that he is boss, when eventually he finds out that he isn't the real big boss. Also how the fuck is the double as good a soldier as big boss is, since big boss is the "perfect soldier". Is that from the brainwashing? Wasn't the whole point in "Les Infant Teribles" (probably spelled that wrong) to recreate multiple versions of Snake just because his skills were unique to him?
okay, thanks for refreshing my memory, im a bit rusty on my Metal Gear lore, so the point in creating the phantom was not only to protect boss and give him time to set things up, but also to root out Skull Face and kill him?
>the games ending ties in with the beginning of metal gear 1990
BRAVO KOJIMA
god himself no that is tie to metal gear 1987 ending
1987
Metal gear 2 came out in 1990
Thats the Timeline
this ending is under rated I love it people hate what they don't understand
ikr fucking love this cutscene
After watching this I got chills
maybe because you have to redo the hospital part and this can't really be accepted as an ending because of that
love this scene but it's not an ending
No its just the begin
if u looks closely
after he punch the mirror .u can see there is Outer Heaven logo on the door
Yea your right this is because from when he finishes listening to the tape and you see him entering the scene again as ' Demon Snake ' there has been roughly 10 years ago. Its a very good time lapse.
Not to mention the shape of the break of the mirror
I think the smoke at the end signifies he’s about to confront solid snake at least that’s what I would love to believe because it does make slot of sense of him being angry and finally seeing that he was being used the entire time not to mention outer heaven has gone to shit
Now i prefer Venom Snake instead Big Boss.
>:(
+Big Boss we still lub u ! :3
Because you are Venom. The most badass character of all time wasn't Big Boss, Solid or anyone else in the series, it was always you.
My favourite character from the mgs games is Venom Snake too :D
+Big Boss I still love you! Oh and what was the music during the reveal
If you look closely when he smashes the mirror you will notice that there’s no metal hand on the “other side” as well as no shrapnel in the head either, meaning that as he breaks the mirror and stares, the real big boss is staring back at him.
I think this means that he has officially lost his own self to the persona of big boss. In other words, while “Venom” died at the hands of Solid Snake, the “Medic” died long before that.
It's not the "real" big boss in the mirror. When he breaks the mirror, there is a second him on the other side. You'll notice the eyepatch and horn flip because it went from reflection to model.
Rest in piece venom snake you were a fucking badass
I like the symbolism at the end.... putting his bloodier "Venom" name to rest and becoming "Big Boss".
He punches his blood-soaked reflection, which then turns into some blood around his horn... then completely clean with some visible scars when he walks away....
Notice the position of his horn and eye patch "switch sides" between the shards after he smashes the mirror? From a mirrored view to actual view.... As if he's destroying the realization that he was merely a reflection of someone else all along?
Donkey Lips Not only that, but he has his working eye again (uncovered), there is no shrapnel in his forehead and he even has his original human arm! All the things that he gave up or that were taken from him trying to serve Big Boss!
The reflection in the broken mirror is also of outer heaven, not DD anymore.
Look at 5:18 it's Outer Haven logo and I assume the gun shot outside Venom Snake room it's the intrusion of Solid Snake in Outer Haven base. Please make MG 1 and 2 remake.
Meta Critic
Yes he wear diamond dog logo but if you play for the first time, you can see the intro where Venom Snake play the cassette on the right corner there written location at Outer Haven.
+Meta Critic There's a time lapse when he flips the tape
@Federal Republic of Aurelia when venom flips the tape 10 years pass
Outer Heaven* Outer Haven is the name of the battleship used by Liquid Ocelot in 4
Remake of original Metal Gear? No, pls no. I will never be able to kill Venom Snake.
"There's only room for one Boss. And one Snake." ~ The Boss Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
2:59 “Now do you remember? Who you are? What you were meant to do? I cheated death thanks to you. And thanks to you I’ve left my mark. You have too. You’ve written you own history. You’re your own man. I’m Big Boss. And you are too. No. He’s the two of us together. Where we are today, we built it. This story, this legend, it’s ours. We can change the world and with it the future. I am you and you are me. Carry that with you wherever you go. Thank you my friend. From here on out, you’re Big Boss.”
hooly i got goosebumps
Yeah we all watched it too dude lol
so this tape is pretty much meant for us (the players)
Basically, as a thanks from Kojima.
My thoughts exactly. And to him, I say, "You're welcome, even though TPP is really the first MGS game I've been able to play."
Upon re-watching this after having completed it last year, I think this scene is actually really damn good. The whole 'replaying the hospital mission again' thing can F right off though lol.
Wait I haven't beat the game you have to replay that shit?
@@oogaboogie yep🤣
@@dbkwk9 lol I said this so long ago, I beat the game twice true ending lmao
@@oogaboogie I keep on getting reply notifications from a comment I made four years ago so I understand
That shot of the DD logo suddenly being Outer Heaven was so powerful. Him being in Outer Heaven suddenly explains all the ruckus in the background: Solid Snake is completing his mission.
It made me realized that Skull Face waited for 9 years just to deliver his speech to the wrong Snake
So this scene starts in 1984 on Motherbase, with Big Boss sending a tape to his brainwashed body double Venom Snake.
Venom smiles at the message on the tape because he truly believes that Big Boss, (the man he revered enough to commit his military service to when he was a medic working at MSF in the 70s) has picked him and showered him in glory by selecting him to share the role of Big Boss.
Venom smiles in 1984 to be praised so highly and given such an important role by his idol. He's been surgically altered to resemble Big Boss, hypnotized and trained into emulating him. He's brainwashed of course. He's been psychologically programmed to follow orders so that the real Big Boss can accomplish the job of setting up Outer Heaven free from the wrath of the superpowers and cipher.
The tape flips and 10 years progress and the Venom that returns to mirror (now in Outer Heaven) is no longer smiling.
He looks enraged. Maddeningly unhinged. But I think he's lucid enough to realize what's happening here. If you play mg1 you find that as Solid Snake you make your way through the fortress of Outer Heaven on your way to kill who you think is Big Boss (in fact it's Venom) . And the gunfire we hear at the start of the games opening scene is that moment in Outer Heaven in mg1. Solid Snake is closing in. Venom is backed into a corner. His defences have crumbled, his super weapons are all destroyed. If there was ever a moment for the real Big Boss to assist it's now. Venom knows the Big Boss has sent this rookie agent to Outer Heaven because he needs to convince the US government that he's not secretly supporting Outer Heaven. But with the new Outer Heaven complete Venom has become a loose end. So Big Boss is now using Solid Snake as a knife in the back of Venom. Big Boss is abandoning Venom to his fate because he's done with him. And Venom realizes this. That's where the rage comes from.
Venom is enraged when he see's the mirror because he realizes that Big Boss was never really holding him esteem. Big Boss was never his friend. Big Boss used Venom as long as it was convinient. Like a human shield and a lap dog. Big Boss stays conviniently protected while Venom sits on the frotntlines and does the dirty work.
Venom realizes that Solid Snake is coming to kill him in outer heaven, because Big Boss is done with him. Big Boss no longer needs him. So when Venom sees the face of the man who manipulated him, used him and then threw him away in the mirror, a man who he's become surgically altered to resemble, he destroys the visage in a gutteral rage.
By the time The Phantom Pain ends Venom idolizes Big Boss.
By the time Metal Gear 1 ends Venom hates Big Boss.
Big Boss is not a good person.
He uses soldiers, Venom included and throws them away to justify remaining in power.
The same way the US Government used his mentor, The Boss and threw her life away, during Operation Snake Eater.
Big Boss becomes the thing he hated. He betrays Miller, Venom, Diamond Dogs, Fox and eventually Outer Heaven. Treating soldiers as expendable pawns and turning them to kill each other in the name of protecting a political ideal, or sometimes even worse, to protect his own power.
I'm keeping this
America used The Boss to do their wet work and take all the blame.
Big Boss used Venom to do their wet work and take all the blame.
Venom used the soldiers we captured to do our wet work and risk their lives for the sake of Big Boss's legacy.
This whole game is explained by the song The Man Who Sold The World because of the theme of Metal Gear Solid is that everyone is a spy and no one is telling the truth, manipulating everyone for a bigger picture. Big Boss is and is not a hero, Venom Snake is and is not a hero, Solid Snake is and is not a hero, they were all manipulated by their superiors to carry on a mission and get it done. This fucking game man, philosophical, cynical, romantic, and truly a Hideo Kojima game
@@swingandamiss5942 what about raiden tho
@@dingorandog Raiden deez nuts miss me with that weak shit bro
You know Big Boss sent Solid to die at Outer Heaven right
But Solid was too good and made it past
So Venom had to fight and ended up dying
The music at the end of this scene, where he looks into the mirror, punches it, and walks off into the darkness, is phenomenal. Reminds me of music from the band Godspeed You Black Emperor.
3:24 a lot of people seem to forget this line when disregarding Venom as Big Boss
The more and more I watch this ending, the more I realise this might very well be the greatest story in a video-game I've ever seen. It left me hollow for a while sure... but once you know the truth you have to accept it.
Big Boss was nothing more than a legend anymore. Even Naked Snake couldn't carry that title without burden.
And sometimes the legacy is more important than the person.
Here's to you Kojima you genius.
it is
Probably my favourite cut scene in video game history
My interpretation of the mirror scene.
Venom is down because 1, he literally lost himself (barely remembers who he was aside from a few fragments), and 2, he’s not the great super soldier he thought he was. However the tape for BB comes in to comfort him in saying “hey don’t worry, this character, this cult of personality is now yours too as you’ve managed to exceed our expectations, good job buddy!”. Venom feels a bit more reassured from the approval of BB and feels a bit more reassured of his new role.
However, in the backside of the tape is BB’s plan for the first Outer Heaven. Venom inserts it in the console player and visualises its contents. The first Mother Base, the one managed by Venom, is a trial version for the second one in Metal Gear 2, BB’s true Outer Heaven. He sees how his whole operation is destroyed and he himself is killed. In a swift turn of events, Venom realises just whose mantel he just undertook: a monster (Demon Snake reflection). He isn’t the man he saw as a brother in arms, but a man deluded by his own legend to the point he is willing to sacrifice his own assets just to achieve his goals, him thinking that stripping Venom of his identity (and even stealing his’, because he can) is a great honour because he now has his title. Even the current events happened because BB back at MSF wanted to build a nuke, compromising their safety at the international theatre, and facilitating Skull Face’s plan to annihilate him. Even if it wasn’t Skull Face, it was just a matter of time until another group took him down. All these events up now came to happen, because of “the Sins of the Father”.
With this realisation, instead of submitting to desperation, he decides to reject John’s image of BB (punches the mirror, i.e. his reflection), and decides to shape his own, of what BB truly should be, a hero of war, a brother in arms. BB’s legend is theirs, and therefore his, and as John took his identity from him, Venom will take BB’s in return. He even goes in direct opposition to John’s previous actions, with Venom unlocking the nuclear disarmament scenario (if it even is canon), also letting a little slip to John, “That’s what I - what we - will leave as our legacy” (probably reflecting in his mentality his true will for the BB legend). Then we have other things as characters from the franchise reflect characteristics from Venom’s Big Boss, and not John’s (for example Sniper Wolf). While Venom followed John’s directives and ultimately died, he had the last laugh in the end.
5:07 - Venom's reaction when Solid Snake brings Rocket Launcher to CQC fight
A lot of people have said "oh this game was a letdown because ur a clone and I thought u were ognna be shown about how Big Boss was Darth Sidious evil! Boo!"
How is this not clear yet.? This ending is not just Kojima telling us we are Big Boss, the ending is more than that.
By the end of Peacewalker he was already a monster. He was a wanted man that was ready to fight the world for fucksake. He had an army, a nuclear vehicle and everything. In the end of Peacewalker he realizes that The Boss gave her life for peace, he felt betrayed because she abandoned her "soldier pride". He realizes that the soldier in him can only live through battles and war.
As a person, Venom is discarded of everything he ever had. He's now used as a tool, a decoy, a target for the world while the real one hides to build his master plan, pretty selfish don't you think? Remember another soldier who got used for means to ends? Yep, they go by the title of THE BOSS.
Venom in this case turns into The Boss, while Big Boss becomes the equivalent of what killed her. Using soldiers as tools to carry on master plans? What did Big Boss do after waking up in a coma? Did he even care that Mother Base fell? Most of the crew died? Paz and Chico are dead? Miller is broken? Venom saved his life and lost 9 years, a limb and an eye? No, instead he quickly discards them, uses them and just sets off to plan new things.
If that wasn't villainous I don't know what is.
yessss! that thing about MEN BECOMING DEMONS... they were already demons... using peoples lives like tools for other plans! MGSV gives more impact in the final moment between big boss and solid when the first tell the other that YOU ARE NO MORE A TOOL FOR ANYONE, FORGET ABOUT US, LIVE YOUR LIFE... and THE WORLD WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT SNAKES..... :'(
God damn. You put more thought into the ending than Kojima did.
***** Oh my God.... There's about 2,000 different excuses to how TPP's story is secretly brilliant, and about 3 of them have some degree of merit.
Your reason is not on of them
***** Okay. DO you want me to link you a few video that rip the story of TPP apart? Some even compliment some aspects.
We know what Koima's intentions are. He failed miserably to convey those themes with his one note characters, pre-destined actions from characters, and lack of a cohesive narrative.
He is right about the real big boss being a monster though, watch the vid again when he flips the tape over look whats written on it "operation intrude" (Metal Gear on msx solid snakes first mission is called "operation intrude", the bitcorder is plugged into an MSX console just to ram home the point). Essentially the only message that he could have got from the real big boss was "time to die" essentially (Venoms death would make everyone believe Big Boss was dead). At the point snake is going to confront Venom nobody knows Big Boss is calling the shots since he is your CO throughout the game on the radio (Roy Campbell takes over in Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake) and you can't reach him at all at this point (he's done a runner to hide the fact there were 2 big boss's). At this point the real Big Boss had become just like the politicians who had sent The Boss to die as a scapegoat to hide their involvement and Venom is The Boss substitute.
You're all diamonds
and we always will be, my brother
When you realize MGS V is the end of everything (Last MGS) and the beginning of everything (The plot leads to Metal Gear )
And in the end it all goes back to Zero....
1:33 " In my restless dreams I can see that Town Silent Hill"
Man beating this game made me feel... ...used. This game wasn't Big Boss' descent into evil this game was a showcase for how evil he has become. Betraying and stripping the identity of a soldier who pledged his loyalty to him shows how similar Big Boss is to those governments who use their soldiers as pawns. Venom Snake lost everything in this game; he lost his face, his identity, his love and perhaps saddest of all his voice. Big Boss is an asshole a man who would sell the world just for his petty revenge. Goddamn this was definitely a Hideo Kojima Game.
+Anthony Agudelo My thoughts exactly. I loved it.
You do realize venom sanke is you? You are big boss, not just the true big boss as well. It's been 4 years, toh better realize it by now
Well, he is "The Man Who Sold The World".
don’t be stupid man, i don’t understand how so many people don’t understand the real purpose of this ending and the franchise, Big Boss didn’t use anyone Venom wasn’t a tool used by Big Boss both were fighting for the same cause, overthrowing Cipher and freeing the world from your domain, Solid Snake was not a good guy, he was just a tool from Cipher, if you think Big Boss is really the village then you need to pay more attention to the game's plot, play MG1, MG2 and MGS2 and you will understand
@beep boop Beep dude how does the game show Big Boss becoming a villain if the game is not even played by him? tell me what makes you think he's a villain? Kojima said that in an interview precisely to hide the plot that was actually Venom and not Naked Snake, there are still people who believe that Big Boss is a villain in 2020, lmao
Jesus.. 6 years and that music still hits hard, what a great scene
I swear, I was in tears, came here to watch this again after all this time.
I'm disappointed how majority of people don't get the message of the ending. This just proves that some of the fans haven't played the two original Metal Gear's . That's why they are sooo upset.
You just have to bite the bullet and accept the fact that you don't play Big Boss. But there are greater messages that people don't look at becuz they are pissed. Yes, it sucks you aren't the real big boss but suck it up
we do get the message, that doesn't make it a good one.
***** me?
you are such a fucking noob. you think you know the story SO Well yet you're probably reading the threads like we all are trying to make sense of this Fecal matter
+Jeremie Boicovich your comment wasn't constructive criticism, you were just bashing
maaan. I keep watching this video because theres so much to see. That ending is both epic and bittersweet. Venom snake is the one true hero in MGS. I don't care that he wasn't BB. Because we made him BB. I know theres supposed to be more but its soo epic how he walked into the fog in the end. So symbolic. I'll love this and the soldier funeral scene forever.
Best game ever. Worst execution ever. Best character ever. Worst locations ever. Best development ever. Worst boss ever. Greatest mechs ever. Best love interest ever. I'd take Quiet over Emma and Meryll anyday.
+masterxeon1001 YOU are venom snake. That's the message, it was the gamer all the time, not a character.
but he kinda IS bb bc of the hypnotherapy
Bro there are no heroes in Metal Gear
Emma?
+Charles Grant Johnny?
I remember a few fans whining and complaining "So sad...Venom Snake didn't CHOOSE this, it was FORCED on him, he never WANTED IT!!!! WAAAAHHH!!!" but that is kind of proof a lot of them don't pay attention to the game. For one, Venom Snake left his WHOLE LIFE to go follow Big Boss (Naked Snake) and was one of his most skilled and trusted soldiers. He admired and loved Big Boss. They also forget that once he remembers, before he breaks the mirror (which you can interpret 100 different ways), this right here:
3:39 Venom Snake nods approvingly. He BELIEVES in Big Boss' goal and his plan. He supports this.
3: 53 Venom Snake smiles. It's an HONOR to him to carry the title of Big Boss. It's beyond a promotion.
4:00 Venom Snake often looks down or straight forward but never with his head up high and proud. But now he does. He believes in himself. It's a case of "If Big Boss believes in me...then I believe in me". He has much more confidence and pride now.
Y'all will never convince me that Venom Snake didn't take this approvingly, admire the cleverness of how it was done, consider it an honor and a boost to his confidence that he was selected to be Naked Snake's equal. He became his partner. He was trusted with EVERYTHING. The name, the legacy, the soldiers...everything. It didn't turn out well but Venom Snake was no simple "victim". He was a victor, in his own way.
Venom Snake should've won the fight with Solid Snake, since he's the ONLY player character in the MGS series that can move while aiming a damn gun, alongside MGR:R Raiden, and Old Snake, but that doesn't count since he's a fossil by then.
say what you want about the story and content but this scene alone for me makes the whole game and depictes the OG metal gear on a brand new light. Phantom is a tragic and heroic character, even more than Big Boss. He sacrificed his own life for Diamond Dogs and big boss in order for him to establish his vision. people might not see it, but in the end we recognise how evil and twisted Big Boss became to pursue his morals and beliefs. He was a piece of shit for letting the medic to be used like that, unfortunately he was so up Big Boss' ass to realize it. Poor Venom Snake, The real and only hero of the metal gear saga
Venom is more hero than Solid Snake & Big Boss tbh.
Solid Snake is fighting in the wrong side. he is just following orders.
in my opinion Venom Snake is the only hero in MGSV
+Mr.Mugen93 Venom IS Big Boss . For all intents and purposes he reacts exactly like how real Big Boss would react in those situations . Listen to the truth tapes again as Ocelot confirms that he simply isn't a body double and that "medic" died back in Ground Zeroes. Venom is Big Boss's memetic clone meaning that he has the same knowledge and experience as the real one .
Remember how Les Enfacts terribles was the cause of Big Boss leaving Zero and starting a war with him? Yet in this game Big Boss embraces that same concept and turns one of his best men into himself . And this can be compared to what the government did to Boss in MGS 3 . So Big Boss essentially ends up becoming like the thing that he hated back in MGS3 .
This game gives closure to Big boss's character but most people seems to have completely missed it .
+Mr.Mugen93 I agree but the issue is we don't really see this change in Big Boss on screen. The Big Boss of MGS:PW would never have allowed this.
Kent Wong yes of course! i was talking storyline-wise
+Kent Wong i love how people act like this was so deep. this didnt go over anyones head. it was just dumb and a cop out. the game was advertised as big boss' downfall. every trailer was deceptively made to look like this is what was happening. and honestly, some of the fan theories that came out of these ideas, were better then the story in the actual game. inb4 "lolol kojima is troll though. remember mgs2 raiden" yea, except the only thing we didnt get was to play as the character we thought we'd be playing as. the whole story didnt say "im going to point a" only to go directly to point B the whole time. also, raiden may have been suppose to represent us in a basic form but he was a character of his own right who had character development and was relevant in later games. not to mention that we realize we're playing as him 5 minutes after he's introduced. in this game we play hours and hours thinking we're big boss and that what we're doing is relevant to his story, then it turns out we're playing as some nobody.
In essence when he says - "from here on out... YOU'RE Big Boss - means all of us as gamers who played this game. Very symbolic. Kojima made this for the fans. Cheers!
Im such a living legend
I am you and you are me
+Rowan Betts carry that wherever you go
From here on out.. You're Big Boss.
Where we are today? We built it. This story, this legend, it's ours.
And with it, we can change the future
Man I fucking loved Venom Snake, he deserved better than what he got. But tbh most of Big Boss's legend can be attributed to V, that ending as he walks out into the darkness to face Solid Snake is fucking beautifully badass and tragic at the same time.
The tape that Venom puts in the player after Naked Snakes speech says "Operation Intrude N312" which is the operation where Solid Snake infiltrate Outer Heaven to save Gray Fox and kills Big Boss but It's actually Venom that Solid kills.
HOW FUCKING DARE THEY TURN THE METAL GEAR SERIES INTO A SURVIVAL. I FEEL THE ONLY REASON THEY ARE DOING THAT IS TO RUB IT INTO KOJIMA THE BASTARDS
"we're out of money" says konami
This game's story was complicated for others, to me it was underrated.
YOU AS A CHILD PLAYING MGS ON NES TO DEFEAT THE " BAD GUYS", ONLY YEARS LATER AS AN ADULT TO LEARN YOU ARE THOSE "BAD GUYS "- "MINDBLOW"
4:39 that is the same sound that the mysterious tape had in ground zeroes
Unpopular opinion - Kiefer is great in this scene and was always good as Big Boss / Venom when he was given more than a few words to work with.
Kiefer is awesome
5:12 i just realised the way the mirror breaks, it makes his eyepatch look like a V
metal gear solid V?
V has come to?
Venom snake?
During this ending, while Venom looks at himself in the mirror some gunshots are heard. I was confused as to what was happening until I saw it. "Operation Intrude N313" tape. That's freaking Solid Snake that's coming for him. Holy crap. And the moment gets even more awesome if your base is full of those S rank soldiers. Cause Solid fuc*king Snake is about to freaking slaughter ALL OF THEM.
Makes me wish for Metal Gear 1 and 2 but in 3D.
There's one last thing to do : remake of MG 1 and 2.
That's not happening anytime soon
*makes Survive*
*Makes Death Stranding*
Noah Leopold unless if Sony buys the rights to metal gear from Konami!
No thanks
I don't want to kill Ahab :(
.its perfect the more you think about it the more brilliant it becomes. ultimately what is Big boss , big boss is a legend that was made not born the title big boss is iconic its legendary its a idea , its a symbol a rallying cry to all who live on the battlefield . but as the series has shown us its not genes that make the man, venom may not be JACK but he is BIG BOSS the nation building legend of the battlefield and no one is more fitting to full that role than ME ,,YOU....and every other fan out there , we have been with big boss since the very beginning , we are his most trusted we are venom . ..the title of big boss was handed to venom and also to the player ...... Venom And Naked snake may ultimately not be the same person but Venom is BIG BOSS !!!! .....why does the medic have all big bosses memories some will ask ?? well cos we have those memories us THE PLAYER share all have been though what big boss has been though we are the only person capable of becoming his phantom .....its kojima at his finest its a shame it will be lost on a lot of fans ...
+ROSSONERI 108 But it screws up the rest of the story. Liquid never met the real BB. Zero and BB never had a big war or anything. BB was not evil. Venom wasn't even evil. We were told we would see BB become a villain and neither him nor Venom become evil. BB has less on sceen time in this game than in MGS4. If this technology is available, then why have LET? Why make clones when you could just make a body double. The ending only fixes one plothole in the series and makes 10 more in the process. And Nobody really cared how BB survived in MG1. it was an 8-bit game. Anything happened in them. I get what Kojima was going for. We are all Big Boss. But in the process, he fucked up the other games. It degrades Big Boss as a character knowing half of his achievements were actually completed by a body double. And the body double isn't even genetically related to BB. And by making Venom do BB's bidding, he makes BB look like a little pussy who sits back and lets others do the work for him. What is the metaphor for the "demon horn" and "tail"? They represent fucking nothing because BB did nothing wrong. This ending is fine the first time you see it but after it sinks in, you realize that it fucking sucks.
ROSSONERI 108 But this doesn't make BB look evil. It makes him look like a pussy. The horn and tail represent nothing because Neither Venom or BB are evil.
there no such thing as evil its all about prospective and shades of however it does make him look very bad....big boss uses the man who saved his life to build his legacy while he builds a military nation .....he is so tied up in his twisted vision of revenge and misrepresentation of the bosses will he will lie, manipulate who ever he needs to ....it doesnt make him look like a bitch it makes him look like a true villain ...true villains operate in the background using others to do there will ...thats what we learn here ...big boss has fallen deeper than we thought he could .......
naked snake - a soldier fooled into assassinating his own mentor , a man who gets others to do his dirty work , a liar whos very legend is built by those around him and shouded in exaggeration !!....a monster who uses everyone at any cost to furful his own twisted misrepresentation of his mentors will..........VENOM SNAKE a man Who remained loyal and un breakable despite having his identity stolen from him ... . A warrior who acts with nobility and selflessness . A solider who's skill on the battlefield became the reality of the myth .A snake unlike any other the real NATION BUILDING HERO AND LEGEND OF THE BATTLEFIELD . the real BIG BOSS!!! . .
+SuperLemonBomb Lemon ignore this idiot, this ending sucked. I remember reading an interview whereit quoted kojima saying "this game will show big boss becoming an evil to the world" Not even venom turned evil in this game.
First of all do not call me a fucking idiot Marc i'm only explaining how the history of the characters and how the ending affects the lore the franchise. I am not defending the games story or the games ending the phantom pain was the worst metal gear solid game in that regard. Venom isnit supposed to turn evil you are keen to call me an idiot but it's you who is missing the point . Before the phantom pain big bosses history in the 80s was always a huge contradiction to him becoming a villain due to his selfless heroic actions in the Mozambique civil war etc
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm Big Boss
and so are you
The entire franchise summed up
Say what you want, but this ending is perfect. Love it
+shadow of blood bloody = DEMON Snake and he punch cause he doesnt want to be like this
+Alphal250 he fight hes own demon
not really its very abrupt and anti climactic
play metal gear 1 for the rest of the climax you dongle
@Týr In the game, if you kill a lot of people you become permanently covered in blood and the shrapnel in your head becomes larger. It's implying that Venom went full Demon Snake and did a lot of horrible shit. Him punching the mirror is open to interpretation i guess, but in my opinion it's the realisation of what he has become and how far he has strayed from who he was.
venom snake the most based character
5:26 Don’t know why but I like the sound of the footsteps
when i was a teenager, i listen this to remeber what are every have a puporse and 10 yars after, i m proud to understand this message !
Doublethink accepting two conflicting truths knowing they both lead nowhere. Shadows hold one mirrors the other everyone has a phantom.
I really like this ending, probably the best ending in a videogame and the best ending for MGS.
The true meaning is people tried to create the perfect soldier after Big Boss. First with the genetic (enfantes terrible), with nanomachines (next generation soldiers) , with the robotics (ninja/Raiden), and in the end with the AI.
But only few (the boss, big boss) understood the only way to create the perfect soldier is give him the right motivation, the right values and goals and a right support. The Boss did this to Big Boss, Big Boss did it with Venom Snake, people (gamers) did it with Solid Snake. So everyone can be a legend with this values, that's why Venom avatar start being just one of us.
I like how in the background there is gunshots and explosions sounds why because it’s solid snake in the base attacking them when venom snake smashes the mirror the bottom left logo changes to diamond dogs to outer heaven logo knowing venom snake is doom and is prepared to defend himself the moment when big boss said now do you remember then when venom snake puts the cassette in the time changes to outer heaven year and timeline when the msx console showed I got excited and knew mgs 1 would happend the msx version plus big boss wanted solid snake to fail the mission and die cause big boss didn't want solid snake and liquid snake without his permission zero went in the plan to make extra copies of big boss miller trusted solid snake and trained him but as years went by ocelot killed him at the end credits he did mention one person had to be killed or get killed
Kojima was speaking to all mgs fans throughout the years and saluting them on writing history together.
and after that scene he went to battle against solid
I didn't even knew a character like venom snake existed until I played MGSV, now he is on my top 3 favorite characters of the entire series
I feel bad for him since he’s getting used and no one will remember what he did but instead think that big boss did that
The last minute tease with “operation n313” being obscured somehow is better to me than if they flat out showed the full title. The mirror punch is the perfect capstone, gets me every time!
“So you’ve chosen to live that way. I wonder… Can you really call that living?”
He’s literally me fr
it's been truly an honor to play this absolutely beautiful timeline that Kojima has masterfully stitched together through out the years. across multiple consoles and years in between. I played TPP when it first came out but only until today did I realize that the ending scene is Solid Snake coming for Venom. I have watched the ending scene many times but I was unable make the connection to MSX. the tape makes so much sense now. Kojima put the truth right in front of us. for years I have been living with this "phantom pain" not making the connection. but now I remember.... I am Big Boss..... and so are you...
Lance Russell You're right! It is such a masterpiece!!!!!
Venom snake is probably the snake we saw the least of in the metal gear series cuase he's only in this game and metal gear the original on msx
I can’t be the only ones wanting a remake of MG1 and MG2
I really love this game. One of my favor. And that ending is really showing how genius Kojima was.
and still is!
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm Big Boss
And so are you.
I loved this game so much. Thanks for posting this spin-chilling clip
This is the first mgs game i played in my life and i never been so impressed with game storyline like this since modern warfare series
Even his hair has gray spots on this scene ( 3:32 ) Some time has gone by, plus the Intrude N313 tape almost at the end, he goes back to the mirror and the horn got higher (meaning at that point he fully became a demon). Remember the "previous operations" files in MGS1 where the text says soldiers describe Big Boss as both a hero and a lunatic. So when you see that horn getting bigger, even more time has gone by, the same scenes portrays 2 different years. When he leaves the room, either N313 is about to start (I support this idea more because he had just set the tape in the recorder and in Mother Base they have a habit of recording every radio conversation), or Venom is about to go face to face with Solid Snake.
Also, on a side note, Mother Base is in the middle of the ocean, and the first ever MG game (MSX) starts with Snake swimming and climbing a fence to complete infiltration, so I can only imagine the location of the first game is Mother Base itself, they just changed the name from Diamond Dogs to Outer Heaven so no one thought BB, now in command of Foxhound, was managing it also
Another cool detail is after Venom punches the mirror for a split second (5:18)the Diamond Dogs logo is replaced with the Outer Heaven logo.
@@KabeyasSorryExcuseOfaUA-camCh Yeah, I saw in a previous comment and then I noticed :D
Homie is 63 there lmao
i can't see this scene really praising the idea of "big boss" and the player's participation in creating it when snake shows up in demon mode at the end, punching his own reflection. all of big boss' karma leaked into venom, and he's worse off because of it.
I love this ending. It's like saying goodbye to the father I never had the chance to have. And it means so much to me. He taught me things my real dad probably never could have.
And then the character you played as and sunk many hours with in the game gets killed in an MSX2 game.