Cheers. You certainly haven't wasted my time. Your videos are simply the best on UA-cam. I bought Jeff Jebson's book as well as checking out other vids so no problem.
The techniques you outline are impressive. I wonder if you can point me to some resources or provide some guidance on the size of trees this technique can be applied to. For example, I am working with a lot of 80-ish year old Douglas Fir and Red Alder. Quite tall / robust trees. Is it possible to use this technique on trees of that size?
I am not aware of any such resource. With an engineering analysis and accurate data, it would be possible to analyze specific cases. However, since you are talking about what the limits might be, the critical unknown would probably be the weight of the tree. That is assuming you had an accurate assessment of the other factors, such as lean angles and directions, strength of your anchor points, chains, and winches. In engineering, however, we don't like to work close to the limits; prefer to have a reasonable factor of safety. I have broken chains several times and recently snapped the cable (old) on my cable winch. I was working on some big trees, taking them out by the roots, so they stayed put when they succeeded in breaking the cable. If I had been trying to pull a back leaner and had already made a notch and back cut, it would not have been good. In such back-leaner circumstances, I try to make sure I am using two chain lines and two winches. If I was working on a back leaner, I would also want to check to make sure that my pulling was actually moving the top some before making any cuts in the trunk.
Another great video. Thank you. Had a tree near power lines, I got the power company to limb the tree and leave me a 15' stump. I used my little jeep and 1/4" cable to up root the tree. Leverage is your friend. Had 10' root ball in my front yard, but no stump! The higher you go, the less effort you need to pull.
Excellent videos Terry. Thank you for backing up your techniques with the math and science needed to make safe decisions. I'll admit the math component of these decisions is difficult for me, but there are plenty of tools I use to cheat my way to the right answers!
Your videos continue to be fabulous. I like lever chain hoists, which I guess usually use Grade 80 chain (if a person wanted extra line strength, he/she could replace with Grade 100..….....in fact, he/she could at the same time get a much longer chain to increase pulling distance without re-hooking or "leap-frogging" pull line components). Chain hoists don't wind the length onto a drum like cable pullers, which lose mechanical advantage as it fills. I added a bolt onto my (discontinued) Harbor Freight 2-ton's handle to form a crank, which is much faster and reduces ratchet wear. I calculated ratio of chain travel to rotary crank travel, and have a cheap luggage scale to measure handle pull if I worry the unit's safe limit is being approached. Grade 43 3/8" chain lengths w/high- test connectors, and c. 80 feet of 3/8" cable (stored in a motorcycle tire) can be assembled in different ways to cover the proper total length. Of course, electrical wires are scary and should be avoided, but if there is any concern at all of a mishap pulling the chain or cable near one, the line can terminate in a robust yellow towing strap for some protection. Instead of "hair pin"-type retainers for clevis and connector pins, which can easily catch on something and be pulled out at a terrible time, I have settled on key rings of the right radius........they are about the only pin securement I know of that is almost impossible to catch and pull out, but still are quick enough to do and undo. To replace my Harbor Freight model with tail-block, I would buy Northern Tool's 3-ton straight-line version.
Good video. In concern for the anchor tree, I have resorted to cutting a car tire and turning it inside out, then wrapping it around the anchor tree to protect it. It did an adaquate job.
when i was in the navy, my cpo showed me how to place a piece is damp carpet over a cable or chain in the center of the run, if it broke the carpets weight brought it down to the deck, helped keep head injuries down
@@patrickcleburneuczjsxpmp9558 so you have chain or cable being stressed to the point of possible failure. (Cables likely fail at one of the ends. Chains aren't as predictable) tie a jacket or blanket in the center and which ever side is the longest, which would carry the most energy, will have the jacket acting like a parachute as it's speeding toward the pulling or pulled vehicle or item. You can see a bunch of trucks breaking chains that snap back and fly through the rear window. That blanket or jacket might slow it down enough to hit below the window. It doesn't make it totally safe but every bit helps. To give an exaggerated example imagine the difference between holding a piece of string out the window of a cat going 40 mph. Now imagine it with a balloon at the end of the string.
I have to straighten a 30 ft palm that was tilted 20 degrees by hurricane Irma (9/10/17). This was a helpful video. I am going to dig out around the root ball 180 degrees on the fall side and use another palm to pull from.
Also, those pear-shaped Grade 43 links whose neck acts as a grab hook on 3/8" chain are useful in attaching your puller's gate hooks to a chain at any point, and quickly moving it. I think they are called "grab links".
Little Mules are good. The cast iron Pow-r-Puller made in the USA is my favorite of the eight or nine hand winches I’ve owned. The infinite capacity cable-through (Tifor) is useful, but mine hasn’t fully captivated my practical use… Stay Safe!!
I've been using a GripHoist cable winch for years. The main advantage is the dual lever design which has a forward and backward pulls. It's much more reliable than any ratchet based come along I've used, and much safer with a safety sheer pin which will break before the cable does. The downside is expense, they are a lot more pricey as compared to the little mules you use.
( Mr. Hale, a huge thanks for providing us all here with the wealth of your experienced knowledge in tree felling! ) Over the years as my wife and I strove to pay off our house and vehicles to get ti work and all of the other incidental costs of living and financial bumps in the road along the way we did not notice how the small trees that gave us shade had grown exponential larger as time passed. I paid for a back leaner pine and a sweet gum tree to be cut down a half year or so ago. Now as I consider cutting some of these monsters down I'm so glad ti be learning so much from Mr. Hale. It's good that I lived a life-long dream and acquired an AAS in Drafting Design Technology in 2012 with a 3.953 GPA at a nationally highly accredited Community College here in East Central Mississippi. This program was steeped in math including trigonometry and college algebra. The program was requisite with three surveying classes, I took four. So for me it's good to see Me. Hale using trigonometry and its a good refresher to me. He also uses physics forces formulas, something I've not been familiar with since my high school days having graduated such in 1976! I must say that some of the trees that will be cut down at my little home place will be done by me and professionals when I see I've not the gear nor experience to cut some of them down. I am considering renting a bucket truck for some of them that I can safely cut diwn. All in all though I give my sincerest thanks to Mr. Hale for providing us with his obvious expertise in felling trees! Well, all
Thanks, Capn. I'l hope you make nothing but good choices on which ones you can tackle yourself and which need to be done by someone with more equipment.
@@terryhale9006 Thanks for your prompt and thoughtful reply. The lion share of my life's (I'm early 60's) work has been as a residential carpenter with some intermittent employ as such on some large commerical projects. So I certainly understand to be safe concerning large.weights and heights. I'm too old to climb trees with a belt and spikes so for the larger tree that could fall in our home I'm considering the use of a bucket truck rental manned by a responsible "ground man". The cranes that I've hired to hoist large trusses onto walls don't seem to have the load capacity to lay down the 70' - 80' or more pines and white ash trees I need felled. They would seem dangerous to the operator and crane truck as well as to my home. I was just curious about the crane trucks as use for tree felling as the thought of that crossed my mind over the last year or so as I mulled over and pondered the safest and best affordable options. That sweet gum tree was over 80' tall and its companion pine was only about 60' that I paid to get dropped. My tree man used a 5/16"chain to drop the sweet gum tree with a heavy duty come along and rope with a lighter come along for rhe pine. He did well and was cheap at $400.00, with a good area reputation. However he carried no liability insurance, so for the larger trees everyone about here wants $1,000 per tree for the big ones! (Ouch! - too rich for my blood!) We've not any that present an immediate danger but I'm looking for an ounce of prevention now, rather than a pound of cure later. You intrigued me when tou mentioned the crane truck. I've worked around tower cranes and wrecking balls also. I certainly am not a know it all yet I sure appreciate your word and good will for my caution. Crane truck?
To get the chain up in the tree, first use a bow with an arrow tied to a string. Launch the arrow as high to where you want the chain, then use the string to draw up a rope, and then follow with the chain. Placing the chain about 1/3 the height of the tree works fairly well, and avoids the tree bending or breaking from the force placed at the draw point.
The arrow concept is appealing due to the ability to aim accurately. However, there are some major problems with it, mostly having to do with the mass of the arrow. Most throw bags are in the range of 12 to 16 ounces; arrows are much lighter. That mass is critical for its momentum and weight. It has to be able to pull the string behind it. A lightweight arrow is quickly decelerated and pulled off course by the air resistance and mass of a string. Once the string is up in the tree, the weight of the throw bag is again critical to pulling the string back down to the ground. As the string is over a branch, the bark provides a rough surface that can have a lot of friction. On one side will be a light arrow and some string. On the other side will be a lot of string, reaching all the way back down to the ground. Under those conditions, it can be impossible to get the arrow end to pull the sting up. In many cases, even a throw bag will get hung up in the leaves and twigs and will have to be pulled back up, possibly even over the branch for a second attempt. Trying to pull an arrow backwards through the branches is practically begging for a snag. Even if your arrow goes through the crotch you want, there is no guarantee it will stop there. Your arrow may pull your string through even higher, but weaker branches. If so, you end up with the same problem with trying to pull the arrow back though a tangle of small branches. I'm not saying an arrow concept won't work, but I know of no professionals who would choose it over the Big Shot sling shot. If someone doesn't want to buy a Big Shot, I wouldn't recommend trying to resort to archery. A bad job of fastening the string to the arrow could leave you wondering where it went to and whether it made a hole in someone's shingle, windshield, or skull.
@@terryhale9006 You can make a playlist on your channel from any videos, even from those that are not your own. People do that a lot with music, when they make playlists of their favorite songs. To make one is simple - just find a video you want and click on that SAVE button, which is located there where the thumb up and down voting buttons are. Just click it and choose the option "create a new playlist", which you can than name as you wish. Than the video will automatically be added to that playlist, and when you than want to add a new video to that same playlist, you just do to the video to watch it and press that SAVE button again, and than UA-cam will automatically recommend your already made playlists and you can choose to save that video to that playlist also. Do this to all the videos you want on your playlist and your done.
Hey Terry - If I just want to pull over dead trees and trees that have fallen naturally and are stuck on other trees, what setup could I use fairly safely? I’m thinking a strong strap or two around the tree at head level. Attached to strong metal cable. Attached to my Kubota diesel UTV. Maybe using a strong live tree with a protective material as a lever and redirect so that the UTV isn’t in danger of being hit by the tree. And so there is less chance of being hit by the cable if it snaps. And then just slowly pull with the UTV in low gear on solid ground. The idea being to snap the dead tree at around eye level, and then just chainsaw if any remains below. What do you think?
9:10 how do you go about tying a rope to the base of the tree for this purpose? I'm using synthetic winch rope and when I tighten up, the rope tends to slip up the tree suddenly.. I'm worried that once I put some real tension on the line at the critical juncture to finally pull the tree the right direction that the rope wil slip free and slide up the trunk, since its 25' to the Y where it comes through and down that could potentially be quite bad.. I don't have a ladder high enough to allow me to climb up and tie right at the Y
I have a straight tree along the side of my house that I want to drop into my backyard, but I want to put a safety cable around the top of it just-in-case. Is it better to put the line 180º away from the house perpendicular to the side? Or in the direction I want the tree to fall? Or somewhere in the middle? There's no neighbor in that direction, just a chain link fence and a small wooded area but I'd rather not take either of them out if I can help it. And is it usually better to tension the cable before making the notch and back cut? Or notch first, then tension, then back cut?
180 with little tension. If, instead, you pull roughly in the direction you want it to fall, as soon as the tree starts to move, that line goes slack and is no longer controlling the direction. However, if you can get your line really high, up to where you can induce a significant bend in the tree, the tree, when cut, will be pulled in that direction until the bend is gone. If it moves enough in the direction you want it to go, then it is unlikely to change that direction.
interesting, Where I am this would need heavier gear though as the trees have deep root that can spread for miles. but these techniques are great for directing the fall, or simply limiting the fall of a tree. Also you could rig up zip line for various purposes.
@@terryhale9006 Newfoundland trees, pine, spruce, fur, dog berry trees(as we call them suspect they have another name) Birch, and least a few more species that get often confused with some of the others. plus maple trees of course and i'm sure i'm forgetting some tree names.
+Indrekk Pringi I usually use the pulley that comes integrated with the winch so the winch's cable can be doubled. I am usually more concerned about generating a strong pull, rather than a long pull. Other than that one dedicated pulley, I have never run chain through a pulley. I do sometimes use a pulley with rope, however. In those cases, I have usually decided I can get the force I need with a rope and pulley and I just don't want to go to all the work of dragging out the chain and winch.
I tried looking through your videos for an answer, but didn't find it. Have you used or tried the Maasdam rope puller? Any thoughts on it? It would save a lot of re-rigging, which cost me more time just this afternoon. Thanks for your time and efforts.
Hi John. I have never used their rope puller, but the continuous feed through would certainly be a huge help on jobs where you have to do a lot of re-rigging. My main reason for not going that route is my aversion to highly tensioned ropes. Right now I am pulling a boulder that ways around 9 tons and I only trust heavy chain and 2 or 3-ton capacity winches. My pull points are over 80 feet away, so every time I have to reset the winches, I lose over two feet of pull just to the sagging of the chain. (Five feet down.) If I had a relatively light pull to do over a long distance, a puller would be ideal.
@@terryhale9006 Thank you. I'm cutting relatively small trees, about 12-15" diameter maximum and wouldn't need to pull them if they weren't so close to the house. I hire a professional for any thing larger. I think I'll try one.
Not convinced. Mine wore out after just two years. Granted, I should have paid more attention to the maintenance requirements for the bearings. Regardless, I found it pretty heavy to lug around.
Good advice. I ended up on my back when the regular links of a chain pulled through one of those screw links. The threads held fine, but the solid part of the link yielded.
I'm having trouble finding a source for a cable winch liked you've recommended. Do you know if they same type is still being made and sold, and if so where I could find one to buy? Thanks!
Patrick, it pains me to say that it appears that the original Little Mules are no longer being made. The closest thing to them appears to be the Lug-All line. While the body looks good to me, I am not impressed by the handles that appear to be a pipe crushed flat where they need to bolt to the winch. It could be that the handles are stronger than they look. I believe you can trust the capacities they list. On some stamped sheet steel models, I would not trust the capacities they claim. Total length of cable is also an important consideration.
When you buy them, they usually are in a bucket which indicates grade. In all honesty, I have been accumulating chains for three decades and have no idea what grades I have. In general, though, I have avoided buying the higher grades as, with my work, the extra capacity is almost never an issue, while the higher costs are.
Terry, at 9:20 to 10:20 you show the anchor chain wrapped around the anchor tree and comment on the need to protect the bark...the chain appears to be chokered through a generic hardware-store carabiner. The carabiner is not in focus and is hard to see clearly. Is that carabiner rated? It appears to be a cheap utiliity one. I would think a rated clevis (shackle) or slip hook would be the only safe way to secure that chain...correct me if I'm wrong, but that carabiner looks like the weak link.....
Bad one on me. I would never use either a chain that weak or a utility carabiner to do an actual pull. Not sure why I got lazy. Maybe I was not wanting to carry out the heavy bucket of chain just to film the "padding demo." Good catch.
This is s great video. Thanks for the detailed info. Btw, are you Hank Hills cousin because you sure act like him let me tell you hwat! You should sell chains and chain accessories.
The terminology gets a bit tricky. When you say "maximum load capacity", that usually connotes the capacity at which something breaks. For safety and liability reasons, manufacturers usually refer to the "rated capacity" which means the load that can safely be used without risk of the item breaking. It also depends on whether you are using a single-line to pull or using doubled line. The Little Mule product literature indicates that the rated load for the doubled line (which I pretty much always use) is 4000 pounds. It further indicates that all them are tested to 125% of that, so each is tested to 5000# before leaving the factory .. The literature further states that they have a minimum design factor of 4:1. I believe that means that, brand new, they are designed to theoretically not break until a load of 16,000 pounds. I don't know at what load the sacrificial handle yields as mine did, but I suspect it was with a load somewhere in the vicinity of 7000#. As a side note, I have had several people suggest they could simple "Yank it with their pickup." I usually reply that my little winch could lift their big truck completely off the ground.
Dad taught me to run around the tree if it is falling toward me...not away from it. You were far enough away you made it but it could have been a big mistake if your tie off was closer....just a thought.
In this instance, running away from the stump was planned and safest. The tree had a broad crown and a straight fall is not guaranteed when there are still a bunch of deep roots that could change its direction of fall. Running sideways would have required running out of the way of the broad crown and an unknown amount of redirected fall.
@@terryhale9006 Thanks for the input. Have you done a video on the trigonometry of 2 rope pulls? That is what I mostly do if property is withing distance.. If I can get my ropes maybe 150° apart, the tree will fall within the circles provided by the 2 ropes. Of course you would need a 3rd rope in the middle if a heavy tree is leaning toward a house...but I would not cut that tree anyway. I do use ropes with stretch but I use ropes a lot stronger than my come-a-longs. A chain or rope without stretch goes slack in a very short distance. A rope with stretch keeps pulling the tree farther where desired. I appreciate your guidance on the breakage disadvantage.
Thanks, Steven. I do not know why the Greifzug cable pullers have not become popular in the United States. Being able to do long, continuous pulls seems like a nice advantage.
Doc, I'm sorry for having wasted your time. I will put one up to spare others the same fate. I had lost incentive, as there were quite a few videos out there, by others, adequately covering the subject. To complicate matters, I launched an ambitious clearing operation that became an obsession. That is now essentially done, so I will return to making the videos I had planned. Terry
While the cable might have some distinct advantages for weight/strength, the problems I would anticipate would be with how to adjust lengths to the needs. With chain, you can use a choke hook at any link along the length or, as I am often forced to do, put the point of a hook into a link. The flexibility in setting the length is not only important because you have to use a good anchor point at whatever distance it exists but also because you often have to effect some progress capture. Trying to grab a new connection point on a cable sounds like a tricky operation to me.
@@terryhale9006 Home depot sells adjustable cable ends "Stainless Steel Clamp Set". If you are using two winches and two cables (or more) side by side, then it should be possible to adjust the cable length on the fly using these clamp set?
Great Info, thanks. One thing however, when running like a bunny 10:35, shouldn't you be facing the tree so you can see it falling, as opposed to facing it with your back? I know I would. Remember, run like a bunny and think like a fox. Cheers.
I've broken two that had cable. One crushed the main ratchet. The more recent crushed the pulley on the cable. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them. Let's just say that I prefer to work with cable winches where my strength is the limiting factor.
Ropes have different amounts of stretchiness. A stretchy rope is considered "dynamic". For a climbing rope, dynamic is better. If your spurs gaff out and let you drop, your climbing/safety rope will catch you. If that rope doesn't stretch a bit, that stop will jar your. If you fall two or three feet, that jarring could sprain your neck or injure you worse. At the other end of the stretchiness spectrum, you have "static" ropes, which stretch very little. One of the advantages of having a rope not stretch is that, if you are trying to pull a tree over, you don't want to waste energy stretching the rope until you are finally exerting the amount of pull you need.
Chains are too heavy... I use 1/2 inch high strength 4400 lb. yellow polypropylene rope to pull and to Anchor to strong tree with 2 ton comealong...1,2 or 3 set ups depending on how big tree is and if it's near something important... Now a days they make a stronger blue polypropylene 1/2 rope... you can get thicker and stronger ropes but the 1/2 in. Fits just right in the hook of the comealongs with the cat's paw knot I use...
@@terryhale9006 two tons per rope. X2 ropes= 4tons does most trees I've cut...a 3rd rope = 6 tons total... I use separate come-alongs and separate anchor ropes to separate anchor trees.
+Joshua Scott I don't think I can really help you there. Most of the "arborist supply houses" are selling items produced by manufacturers other than themselves, so the quality is determined by the manufacturers, not the resellers. For those items, the prices reflect the competition between the resellers and their need to make a profit. While there are several others, the first three that I usually check are Sherrill, Wesspur, and American Arborist. If failure of the item will not be a safety problem, I also occasionally check to see if there are any reduced price items on e-bay for second-hand stuff.
He speaks of Grade 30 chain the lowest-rated chain, why not Grade 43 high test or Grade 70 very high strength and double the breaking strength or go to a smaller diameter and reduce weight with the same strength?
As the grade goes up, the prices go up, but even faster. The series is aimed more for the casual land owner, rather than for someone with a corporate charge account. Also, as a safety issue, the higher grades of steel tend towards more sudden and brittle failures. With milder grades of steel, you tend to get more stretch and warning when you've overstressed something. That said, if you've got high strength chain, Great!
This seems to be a recurring theme with UA-cam vids about getting out tree stumps . I have seen a load of them where it looks like they have dug round the roots ,cut through them and then carefully re buried them before filming starts and then ...presto! The tree pops out of the ground like magic after just a simple little pull
I'm sure you're not suggesting I run in a serpentine pattern. In this case, running away from the tree was the shortest path to safety. It had a wide top, so I would have had to run to either side a good distance to avoid getting hit by the wide top. Add to that the uncertainty over the slight possibility that a deep root could have changed the direction of fall by 30 or 40 degrees and I might have needed to run 40 or 50 feet sideways to be sure of not getting hit. I knew I only had to run 20 feet away from the tree to be safely out of its reach.
I think you set a trap for me and I got caught. I have worked with several techs and engineers who seem to pride themselves on wearing mis-matched out fits. When you try to help them they give you that Einstein was a poor dresser. But If your really smart you get many things. Idiot savants are very smart at one thing.
It's 2020, I've watched several videos on this page recently. You, sir, are a very good instructor.
Thank you for the time you take in these very informative videos. You have a wonderful gift in articulating just the facts.
Cheers. You certainly haven't wasted my time. Your videos are simply the best on UA-cam. I bought Jeff Jebson's book as well as checking out other vids so no problem.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience in such a clear manner.
That ls again for the great video, I really appreciate you taking the time to make these and share your knowledge
Thanks, Felix.
This is fantastic. I've been looking for a series of videos like this for a long time. Thanks!
Thanks Brian!
The techniques you outline are impressive. I wonder if you can point me to some resources or provide some guidance on the size of trees this technique can be applied to. For example, I am working with a lot of 80-ish year old Douglas Fir and Red Alder. Quite tall / robust trees. Is it possible to use this technique on trees of that size?
I am not aware of any such resource. With an engineering analysis and accurate data, it would be possible to analyze specific cases. However, since you are talking about what the limits might be, the critical unknown would probably be the weight of the tree. That is assuming you had an accurate assessment of the other factors, such as lean angles and directions, strength of your anchor points, chains, and winches.
In engineering, however, we don't like to work close to the limits; prefer to have a reasonable factor of safety. I have broken chains several times and recently snapped the cable (old) on my cable winch. I was working on some big trees, taking them out by the roots, so they stayed put when they succeeded in breaking the cable. If I had been trying to pull a back leaner and had already made a notch and back cut, it would not have been good.
In such back-leaner circumstances, I try to make sure I am using two chain lines and two winches. If I was working on a back leaner, I would also want to check to make sure that my pulling was actually moving the top some before making any cuts in the trunk.
Another great video. Thank you. Had a tree near power lines, I got the power company to limb the tree and leave me a 15' stump. I used my little jeep and 1/4" cable to up root the tree. Leverage is your friend. Had 10' root ball in my front yard, but no stump! The higher you go, the less effort you need to pull.
Exactly!
For your amusement, if you haven't already seen it: ua-cam.com/video/TZZFZXTCDdY/v-deo.html
Excellent videos Terry. Thank you for backing up your techniques with the math and science needed to make safe decisions. I'll admit the math component of these decisions is difficult for me, but there are plenty of tools I use to cheat my way to the right answers!
Thanks Tyler.
Even as an engineer, I find that the math you don't exercise regularly ends up feeling rejected and sneaks away.
Way to go, Terry! Enjoyed the video.
Robbie JK Thanks Robbie.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching your video. Well done with explanations of the forces.
Thanks, Luke.
Your videos continue to be fabulous. I like lever chain hoists, which I guess usually use Grade 80 chain (if a person wanted extra line strength, he/she could replace with Grade 100..….....in fact, he/she could at the same time get a much longer chain to increase pulling distance without re-hooking or "leap-frogging" pull line components).
Chain hoists don't wind the length onto a drum like cable pullers, which lose mechanical advantage as it fills. I added a bolt onto my (discontinued) Harbor Freight 2-ton's handle to form a crank, which is much faster and reduces ratchet wear. I calculated ratio of chain travel to rotary crank travel, and have a cheap luggage scale to measure handle pull if I worry the unit's safe limit is being approached. Grade 43 3/8" chain lengths w/high-
test connectors, and c. 80 feet of 3/8" cable (stored in a motorcycle tire) can be assembled in different ways to cover the proper total length. Of course, electrical wires are scary and should be avoided, but if there is any concern at all of a mishap pulling the chain or cable near one, the line can terminate in a robust yellow towing strap for some protection. Instead of "hair pin"-type retainers for clevis and connector pins, which can easily catch on something and be pulled out at a terrible time, I have settled on key rings of the right radius........they are about the only pin securement I know of that is almost impossible to catch and pull out, but still are quick enough to do and undo. To replace my Harbor Freight model with
tail-block, I would buy Northern Tool's 3-ton straight-line version.
Wow a chain come along. Where have I been. That’s incredible
Great video,Good job.
awesome stuff terry. now I need to add some pulleys and clips to my climbing gear and learn some good knots.
+Joshua Scott Thanks Josh. Stay safe!
Watching in 2022, I learned a lot, thank you. I think you’re an excellent teacher, and I hope you and yours are well. Mia
Thanks, Mia. We are doing well and hope you are, too.
This is the first time I've heard the term "slugs" referring to mass outside of a physics class. Outstanding!
Good video. In concern for the anchor tree, I have resorted to cutting a car tire and turning it inside out, then wrapping it around the anchor tree to protect it. It did an adaquate job.
Hi,
Interesting.
Do you have a photo, that depicts how it looks like?
when i was in the navy, my cpo showed me how to place a piece is damp carpet over a cable or chain in the center of the run, if it broke the carpets weight brought it down to the deck, helped keep head injuries down
Good idea. Thanks.
We usually tie an old jacket on the chain or rope if we think it could break.
@@sweet65mustang I don't understand how that's supposed to help. Could you (or anyone else) explain?
@@patrickcleburneuczjsxpmp9558 so you have chain or cable being stressed to the point of possible failure. (Cables likely fail at one of the ends. Chains aren't as predictable) tie a jacket or blanket in the center and which ever side is the longest, which would carry the most energy, will have the jacket acting like a parachute as it's speeding toward the pulling or pulled vehicle or item. You can see a bunch of trucks breaking chains that snap back and fly through the rear window. That blanket or jacket might slow it down enough to hit below the window. It doesn't make it totally safe but every bit helps. To give an exaggerated example imagine the difference between holding a piece of string out the window of a cat going 40 mph. Now imagine it with a balloon at the end of the string.
@@sweet65mustang Thanks very much for the explanation!
I have to straighten a 30 ft palm that was tilted 20 degrees by hurricane Irma (9/10/17). This was a helpful video. I am going to dig out around the root ball 180 degrees on the fall side and use another palm to pull from.
Also, those pear-shaped Grade 43 links whose neck acts as a grab hook on 3/8" chain are useful in attaching your puller's gate hooks to a chain at any point, and quickly moving it. I think they are called "grab links".
Thank you for your help sir
You're welcome. Hope your project goes well.
Little Mules are good.
The cast iron Pow-r-Puller made in the USA is my favorite of the eight or nine hand winches I’ve owned.
The infinite capacity cable-through (Tifor) is useful, but mine hasn’t fully captivated my practical use…
Stay Safe!!
I've been using a GripHoist cable winch for years. The main advantage is the dual lever design which has a forward and backward pulls. It's much more reliable than any ratchet based come along I've used, and much safer with a safety sheer pin which will break before the cable does. The downside is expense, they are a lot more pricey as compared to the little mules you use.
You buy a lot of capacity with those prices.
thanks man,really helpful video!
( Mr. Hale, a huge thanks for providing us all here with the wealth of your experienced knowledge in tree felling! )
Over the years as my wife and I strove to pay off our house and vehicles to get ti work and all of the other incidental costs of living and financial bumps in the road along the way we did not notice how the small trees that gave us shade had grown exponential larger as time passed.
I paid for a back leaner pine and a sweet gum tree to be cut down a half year or so ago.
Now as I consider cutting some of these monsters down I'm so glad ti be learning so much from Mr. Hale.
It's good that I lived a life-long dream and acquired an AAS in Drafting Design Technology in 2012 with a 3.953 GPA at a nationally highly accredited Community College here in East Central Mississippi.
This program was steeped in math including trigonometry and college algebra. The program was requisite with three surveying classes, I took four.
So for me it's good to see Me. Hale using trigonometry and its a good refresher to me. He also uses physics forces formulas, something I've not been familiar with since my high school days having graduated such in 1976!
I must say that some of the trees that will be cut down at my little home place will be done by me and professionals when I see I've not the gear nor experience to cut some of them down. I am considering renting a bucket truck for some of them that I can safely cut diwn.
All in all though I give my sincerest thanks to Mr. Hale for providing us with his obvious expertise in felling trees!
Well, all
Thanks, Capn. I'l hope you make nothing but good choices on which ones you can tackle yourself and which need to be done by someone with more equipment.
@@terryhale9006 Thanks for your prompt and thoughtful reply. The lion share of my life's (I'm early 60's) work has been as a residential carpenter with some intermittent employ as such on some large commerical projects. So I certainly understand to be safe concerning large.weights and heights. I'm too old to climb trees with a belt and spikes so for the larger tree that could fall in our home I'm considering the use of a bucket truck rental manned by a responsible "ground man".
The cranes that I've hired to hoist large trusses onto walls don't seem to have the load capacity to lay down the 70' - 80' or more pines and white ash trees I need felled. They would seem dangerous to the operator and crane truck as well as to my home.
I was just curious about the crane trucks as use for tree felling as the thought of that crossed my mind over the last year or so as I mulled over and pondered the safest and best affordable options.
That sweet gum tree was over 80' tall and its companion pine was only about 60' that I paid to get dropped. My tree man used a 5/16"chain to drop the sweet gum tree with a heavy duty come along and rope with a lighter come along for rhe pine. He did well and was cheap at $400.00, with a good area reputation. However he carried no liability insurance, so for the larger trees everyone about here wants $1,000 per tree for the big ones! (Ouch! - too rich for my blood!)
We've not any that present an immediate danger but I'm looking for an ounce of prevention now, rather than a pound of cure later.
You intrigued me when tou mentioned the crane truck. I've worked around tower cranes and wrecking balls also.
I certainly am not a know it all yet I sure appreciate your word and good will for my caution.
Crane truck?
Well Done.
To get the chain up in the tree, first use a bow with an arrow tied to a string. Launch the arrow as high to where you want the chain, then use the string to draw up a rope, and then follow with the chain. Placing the chain about 1/3 the height of the tree works fairly well, and avoids the tree bending or breaking from the force placed at the draw point.
The arrow concept is appealing due to the ability to aim accurately. However, there are some major problems with it, mostly having to do with the mass of the arrow. Most throw bags are in the range of 12 to 16 ounces; arrows are much lighter. That mass is critical for its momentum and weight. It has to be able to pull the string behind it. A lightweight arrow is quickly decelerated and pulled off course by the air resistance and mass of a string.
Once the string is up in the tree, the weight of the throw bag is again critical to pulling the string back down to the ground. As the string is over a branch, the bark provides a rough surface that can have a lot of friction. On one side will be a light arrow and some string. On the other side will be a lot of string, reaching all the way back down to the ground. Under those conditions, it can be impossible to get the arrow end to pull the sting up. In many cases, even a throw bag will get hung up in the leaves and twigs and will have to be pulled back up, possibly even over the branch for a second attempt. Trying to pull an arrow backwards through the branches is practically begging for a snag.
Even if your arrow goes through the crotch you want, there is no guarantee it will stop there. Your arrow may pull your string through even higher, but weaker branches. If so, you end up with the same problem with trying to pull the arrow back though a tangle of small branches.
I'm not saying an arrow concept won't work, but I know of no professionals who would choose it over the Big Shot sling shot.
If someone doesn't want to buy a Big Shot, I wouldn't recommend trying to resort to archery. A bad job of fastening the string to the arrow could leave you wondering where it went to and whether it made a hole in someone's shingle, windshield, or skull.
should throw these modules into a Playlist then autoplay will run through them in order.
Definitely a good idea. Sadly, I haven't been adventurous enough to figure out how. Guidance?
@@terryhale9006 You can make a playlist on your channel from any videos, even from those that are not your own. People do that a lot with music, when they make playlists of their favorite songs. To make one is simple - just find a video you want and click on that SAVE button, which is located there where the thumb up and down voting buttons are. Just click it and choose the option "create a new playlist", which you can than name as you wish. Than the video will automatically be added to that playlist, and when you than want to add a new video to that same playlist, you just do to the video to watch it and press that SAVE button again, and than UA-cam will automatically recommend your already made playlists and you can choose to save that video to that playlist also. Do this to all the videos you want on your playlist and your done.
Hey Terry - If I just want to pull over dead trees and trees that have fallen naturally and are stuck on other trees, what setup could I use fairly safely? I’m thinking a strong strap or two around the tree at head level. Attached to strong metal cable. Attached to my Kubota diesel UTV. Maybe using a strong live tree with a protective material as a lever and redirect so that the UTV isn’t in danger of being hit by the tree. And so there is less chance of being hit by the cable if it snaps. And then just slowly pull with the UTV in low gear on solid ground. The idea being to snap the dead tree at around eye level, and then just chainsaw if any remains below. What do you think?
Hard to believe a healthy tree that size could be pulled over manually but there you have it.
9:10 how do you go about tying a rope to the base of the tree for this purpose? I'm using synthetic winch rope and when I tighten up, the rope tends to slip up the tree suddenly.. I'm worried that once I put some real tension on the line at the critical juncture to finally pull the tree the right direction that the rope wil slip free and slide up the trunk, since its 25' to the Y where it comes through and down that could potentially be quite bad.. I don't have a ladder high enough to allow me to climb up and tie right at the Y
I am not great on the formulas but i also learnt that by using pulleys i can now get a greater pull. im still tossing between rope and chain
Basically, rope if you're going to pull by hand, chain/cable if your going to use some kind of winch.
I have a straight tree along the side of my house that I want to drop into my backyard, but I want to put a safety cable around the top of it just-in-case. Is it better to put the line 180º away from the house perpendicular to the side? Or in the direction I want the tree to fall? Or somewhere in the middle? There's no neighbor in that direction, just a chain link fence and a small wooded area but I'd rather not take either of them out if I can help it.
And is it usually better to tension the cable before making the notch and back cut? Or notch first, then tension, then back cut?
180 with little tension.
If, instead, you pull roughly in the direction you want it to fall, as soon as the tree starts to move, that line goes slack and is no longer controlling the direction.
However, if you can get your line really high, up to where you can induce a significant bend in the tree, the tree, when cut, will be pulled in that direction until the bend is gone. If it moves enough in the direction you want it to go, then it is unlikely to change that direction.
Thanks again for your help. And Happy Thanksgiving!
interesting, Where I am this would need heavier gear though as the trees have deep root that can spread for miles. but these techniques are great for directing the fall, or simply limiting the fall of a tree. Also you could rig up zip line for various purposes.
True. Some trees, like banyan, can really spread. What species are you thinking of?
@@terryhale9006 Newfoundland trees, pine, spruce, fur, dog berry trees(as we call them suspect they have another name) Birch, and least a few more species that get often confused with some of the others. plus maple trees of course and i'm sure i'm forgetting some tree names.
Question could I limb and top out the tree leave teen feet and use the log as leverage to help pull the root ball up? Any idea?
Definitely, provided you can apply enough pulling force. If you can apply the force higher, the horizontal pull you need to exert will be reduced.
What about using a pulley to double the pulling power?
Have you ever tried using pulleys?
+Indrekk Pringi I usually use the pulley that comes integrated with the winch so the winch's cable can be doubled. I am usually more concerned about generating a strong pull, rather than a long pull. Other than that one dedicated pulley, I have never run chain through a pulley. I do sometimes use a pulley with rope, however. In those cases, I have usually decided I can get the force I need with a rope and pulley and I just don't want to go to all the work of dragging out the chain and winch.
I tried looking through your videos for an answer, but didn't find it. Have you used or tried the Maasdam rope puller? Any thoughts on it? It would save a lot of re-rigging, which cost me more time just this afternoon. Thanks for your time and efforts.
Hi John.
I have never used their rope puller, but the continuous feed through would certainly be a huge help on jobs where you have to do a lot of re-rigging. My main reason for not going that route is my aversion to highly tensioned ropes. Right now I am pulling a boulder that ways around 9 tons and I only trust heavy chain and 2 or 3-ton capacity winches. My pull points are over 80 feet away, so every time I have to reset the winches, I lose over two feet of pull just to the sagging of the chain. (Five feet down.) If I had a relatively light pull to do over a long distance, a puller would be ideal.
@@terryhale9006 Thank you. I'm cutting relatively small trees, about 12-15" diameter maximum and wouldn't need to pull them if they weren't so close to the house. I hire a professional for any thing larger. I think I'll try one.
The Wyeth-Scott More Power Puller is the best manual winch money can buy. $300 though.
Not convinced. Mine wore out after just two years. Granted, I should have paid more attention to the maintenance requirements for the bearings. Regardless, I found it pretty heavy to lug around.
Terry Hale the box is covered in warning labels that say to lubricate it 😁🤗😎
Unfortunately. I bought mine off the shelf. It didn't have a box.
Terry Hale yet you are promoting tuf tug?? Wyeth Scott beats tuf tug by miles, you should agree! 😉
Pretty sure I didn't promote tuf tug.
great video but I would get rid of any repair links with the threads in them (they break easy), replace with pin repair links.
Good advice. I ended up on my back when the regular links of a chain pulled through one of those screw links. The threads held fine, but the solid part of the link yielded.
Sir, how did you end up on your back? ... did the flying chain hit you?
That looks like a pretty fast 40m dash.
Thirty-five years ago, I was a pretty fast center forward. Now I'm pleased when one foot plants in front of the other.
I'm having trouble finding a source for a cable winch liked you've recommended. Do you know if they same type is still being made and sold, and if so where I could find one to buy? Thanks!
Patrick, it pains me to say that it appears that the original Little Mules are no longer being made. The closest thing to them appears to be the Lug-All line. While the body looks good to me, I am not impressed by the handles that appear to be a pipe crushed flat where they need to bolt to the winch. It could be that the handles are stronger than they look. I believe you can trust the capacities they list. On some stamped sheet steel models, I would not trust the capacities they claim. Total length of cable is also an important consideration.
@@terryhale9006 Thank you very much! Your videos have been super helpful.
Terry...what grade of chain are you using? Are chains identified in any way to indicate grade?
When you buy them, they usually are in a bucket which indicates grade. In all honesty, I have been accumulating chains for three decades and have no idea what grades I have. In general, though, I have avoided buying the higher grades as, with my work, the extra capacity is almost never an issue, while the higher costs are.
10:30 !! The money shot!!!!! Run like a bunny!!! P.S. You and my Dad should play cards together.
(Chuckle.)
Terry, at 9:20 to 10:20 you show the anchor chain wrapped around the anchor tree and comment on the need to protect the bark...the chain appears to be chokered through a generic hardware-store carabiner. The carabiner is not in focus and is hard to see clearly. Is that carabiner rated? It appears to be a cheap utiliity one. I would think a rated clevis (shackle) or slip hook would be the only safe way to secure that chain...correct me if I'm wrong, but that carabiner looks like the weak link.....
Bad one on me. I would never use either a chain that weak or a utility carabiner to do an actual pull. Not sure why I got lazy. Maybe I was not wanting to carry out the heavy bucket of chain just to film the "padding demo."
Good catch.
This is s great video. Thanks for the detailed info.
Btw, are you Hank Hills cousin because you sure act like him let me tell you hwat!
You should sell chains and chain accessories.
Thanks, John. No relation that I am aware of.
I see he is a fan of the "prometheus" style of escaping a falling object.
I'm not one to argue with thousands of years of evidence.
Run away! Run away!
What is the max Load capacity of hand winch did you use? was 1 ton cable enough to get that monster down?
The terminology gets a bit tricky. When you say "maximum load capacity", that usually connotes the capacity at which something breaks. For safety and liability reasons, manufacturers usually refer to the "rated capacity" which means the load that can safely be used without risk of the item breaking. It also depends on whether you are using a single-line to pull or using doubled line. The Little Mule product literature indicates that the rated load for the doubled line (which I pretty much always use) is 4000 pounds. It further indicates that all them are tested to 125% of that, so each is tested to 5000# before leaving the factory
.. The literature further states that they have a minimum design factor of 4:1. I believe that means that, brand new, they are designed to theoretically not break until a load of 16,000 pounds. I don't know at what load the sacrificial handle yields as mine did, but I suspect it was with a load somewhere in the vicinity of 7000#.
As a side note, I have had several people suggest they could simple "Yank it with their pickup." I usually reply that my little winch could lift their big truck completely off the ground.
@@terryhale9006 Always informative, many thanks from Baghdad Iraq!
Dad taught me to run around the tree if it is falling toward me...not away from it. You were far enough away you made it but it could have been a big mistake if your tie off was closer....just a thought.
In this instance, running away from the stump was planned and safest. The tree had a broad crown and a straight fall is not guaranteed when there are still a bunch of deep roots that could change its direction of fall. Running sideways would have required running out of the way of the broad crown and an unknown amount of redirected fall.
@@terryhale9006 Thanks for the input.
Have you done a video on the trigonometry of 2 rope pulls? That is what I mostly do if property is withing distance.. If I can get my ropes maybe 150° apart, the tree will fall within the circles provided by the 2 ropes. Of course you would need a 3rd rope in the middle if a heavy tree is leaning toward a house...but I would not cut that tree anyway.
I do use ropes with stretch but I use ropes a lot stronger than my come-a-longs. A chain or rope without stretch goes slack in a very short distance. A rope with stretch keeps pulling the tree farther where desired. I appreciate your guidance on the breakage disadvantage.
i use a greifzug winch, its a much better winch design. pulling length only depends on cable u use, if u use one mile of cable you can pull one mile.
Thanks, Steven. I do not know why the Greifzug cable pullers have not become popular in the United States. Being able to do long, continuous pulls seems like a nice advantage.
can't find the last video getting the rope up.
Doc,
I'm sorry for having wasted your time. I will put one up to spare others the same fate.
I had lost incentive, as there were quite a few videos out there, by others, adequately covering the subject. To complicate matters, I launched an ambitious clearing operation that became an obsession. That is now essentially done, so I will return to making the videos I had planned.
Terry
This might be the first time I've heard the imperial unit of mass ("slug") used in 15 years
In my line of engineering, it is just a college memory.
How about aircraft cable? Would that not be just as effective and less costly than chain?
While the cable might have some distinct advantages for weight/strength, the problems I would anticipate would be with how to adjust lengths to the needs. With chain, you can use a choke hook at any link along the length or, as I am often forced to do, put the point of a hook into a link. The flexibility in setting the length is not only important because you have to use a good anchor point at whatever distance it exists but also because you often have to effect some progress capture. Trying to grab a new connection point on a cable sounds like a tricky operation to me.
@@terryhale9006 Home depot sells adjustable cable ends "Stainless Steel Clamp Set". If you are using two winches and two cables (or more) side by side, then it should be possible to adjust the cable length on the fly using these clamp set?
@@springer-qb4dv Thanks. I'll look into that.
Can anyone link getting the rope into the tree? I think it was taken down
ua-cam.com/video/Ay6aKThY_cM/v-deo.html
Great Info, thanks. One thing however, when running like a bunny 10:35, shouldn't you be facing the tree so you can see it falling, as opposed to facing it with your back? I know I would. Remember, run like a bunny and think like a fox. Cheers.
I was also taught to run perpendicular to the tree. You tend to get away from it quicker.
Mr. Hale, do you have an opinion of the Maasdam Rope Puller? (which is rated at 1500# using a 3 braid half-inch rope)
I've broken two that had cable. One crushed the main ratchet. The more recent crushed the pulley on the cable. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them. Let's just say that I prefer to work with cable winches where my strength is the limiting factor.
I give this video a thumbs because you ran like a bunny lol
+2pacnasgame The most important lesson in the video.
Know what static rope is?
Ropes have different amounts of stretchiness. A stretchy rope is considered "dynamic". For a climbing rope, dynamic is better. If your spurs gaff out and let you drop, your climbing/safety rope will catch you. If that rope doesn't stretch a bit, that stop will jar your. If you fall two or three feet, that jarring could sprain your neck or injure you worse.
At the other end of the stretchiness spectrum, you have "static" ropes, which stretch very little. One of the advantages of having a rope not stretch is that, if you are trying to pull a tree over, you don't want to waste energy stretching the rope until you are finally exerting the amount of pull you need.
@@terryhale9006 where is the link of the product please?
ran like a bunny.hehehe
All those calculations and seriousness, and he throws in "run like a bunny." Cracked me up.
Run like a bunny??? Nah.. My dad used to say "Run like ten sons-a-bitches!"
😤😤😤😤
Chains are too heavy...
I use 1/2 inch high strength 4400 lb. yellow polypropylene rope to pull and to Anchor to strong tree with 2 ton comealong...1,2 or 3 set ups depending on how big tree is and if it's near something important...
Now a days they make a stronger blue polypropylene 1/2 rope... you can get thicker and stronger ropes but the 1/2 in. Fits just right in the hook of the comealongs with the cat's paw knot I use...
I can't argue about the weight. How much stretch do you get when doing a tough pull?
@@terryhale9006 two tons per rope.
X2 ropes= 4tons does most trees I've cut...a 3rd rope = 6 tons total...
I use separate come-alongs and separate anchor ropes to separate anchor trees.
do u know of any websites to order gear from that has reasonable prices and quality rigging? thanks in advance
+Joshua Scott I don't think I can really help you there. Most of the "arborist supply houses" are selling items produced by manufacturers other than themselves, so the quality is determined by the manufacturers, not the resellers. For those items, the prices reflect the competition between the resellers and their need to make a profit.
While there are several others, the first three that I usually check are Sherrill, Wesspur, and American Arborist.
If failure of the item will not be a safety problem, I also occasionally check to see if there are any reduced price items on e-bay for second-hand stuff.
Excellent
+Terry Hale Can't Believe I forgot to List TreeStuff.com.
Ok
He speaks of Grade 30 chain the lowest-rated chain, why not Grade 43 high test or Grade 70 very high strength and double the breaking strength or go to a smaller diameter and reduce weight with the same strength?
As the grade goes up, the prices go up, but even faster. The series is aimed more for the casual land owner, rather than for someone with a corporate charge account. Also, as a safety issue, the higher grades of steel tend towards more sudden and brittle failures. With milder grades of steel, you tend to get more stretch and warning when you've overstressed something. That said, if you've got high strength chain, Great!
11:00 Andoid puts chains on next video
it looks like you have cut some roots and maybe have dug out around the base of the tree.........
+Lee Goins Yes. That tail end is sampled from a longer video documenting that digging process, ua-cam.com/video/TZZFZXTCDdY/v-deo.html.
This seems to be a recurring theme with UA-cam vids about getting out tree stumps . I have seen a load of them where it looks like they have dug round the roots ,cut through them and then carefully re buried them before filming starts and then ...presto! The tree pops out of the ground like magic after just a simple little pull
Be prepared to run 💀
🤔
Baby Frog at 4:51. Get out of the way>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Good eye! I hadn't noticed it. For some reason, we had thousands of both baby frogs and toads that year.
There wasn't much roots holding that tree in the ground.
Getting it to that condition was a lot of work. ua-cam.com/video/TZZFZXTCDdY/v-deo.html
Why would you run straight
I'm sure you're not suggesting I run in a serpentine pattern.
In this case, running away from the tree was the shortest path to safety. It had a wide top, so I would have had to run to either side a good distance to avoid getting hit by the wide top. Add to that the uncertainty over the slight possibility that a deep root could have changed the direction of fall by 30 or 40 degrees and I might have needed to run 40 or 50 feet sideways to be sure of not getting hit. I knew I only had to run 20 feet away from the tree to be safely out of its reach.
Brown shoes, brown belt - Black shoes, black belt.
Orange, chainsaw-resistant rubber boots, black belt.
I think you set a trap for me and I got caught. I have worked with several techs and engineers who seem to pride themselves on wearing mis-matched out fits. When you try to help them they give you that Einstein was a poor dresser. But If your really smart you get many things. Idiot savants are very smart at one thing.
Cheaper to buy a new electric winch.
Generator would add to the cost.
use strap not chains or you ring bark the tree and kill it
Who would do anything with a three eights inch rope aside from tying a load down ?...
There are plenty of people who lack experience and could make that type of mistake..
Zzzzzzzz.......
Sorry. Wasn't intended to be exciting.