I have been cutting trees for firewood for many years, learning by the school of hard knocks most of what I know. Your video's explain the science physics of this type of work in a manner that is down to earth (not a pun ) and easily understood. You are an excellent instructor. I have no doubt you have prevented hundreds of possible injuries. Great job!
Thank you Terry for your video. I was prepared to watch several except yours pretty much covered it and answered my questions. I have cut well over 100 trees and other than climbing what I use to have access, to which was a neighbors 40-ft ladder, I have never scaled a tree ( other than climbing branches) to place a rope. I have done pretty much everything you show in your video but just not with the expertise and grace you show here.
For higher limbs and tree crotches I've had good success using a bow and arrow, with heavy duty fishing line secured above the notch end of a target arrow. Sometimes I'll add weight to the tip of the arrow to encourage its descent despite the drag friction of the line. Then, with my rope secured to the fishing line, I pull the line to get the rope over the limb, or through the crotch.
The very experienced arborist that does many tall pines in our cottage area always twirls his throw line from one side and lets it go after building up his speed and diameter until he lets it go. He is amazingly accurate and obviously comes with decades of experience. I remember gathering a group of neighbours to have them watch his skill but most of them missed it because he nailed the toss on his first attempt before everyone had time to gather together. The lowest branch was probably 75’ in the air and a leaner to boot.
Mr Hale you do a fantastic job. Your clear voice-without throwing in unrelated material is much appreciated. Your illustrations are extremely well done and helpful. I’ve watched dozens of films on this topic none can compare with yours. I am instrument rated pilot and orthopaedic surgeon-have seen some talented instructors, but none any better than you. THANK YOU-FOR YOUR UNSELFISH CONTRIBUTION TO THE KNOWLEDGE AND SAFETY of those of us enjoying our time in the woods.
Sir: Congratulations on this amazing series of videos. This is really high quality material. Very professional, technical and informative. Thank you very much! Plus it's fun and the "weakened" stuff made me smile all along. Great job.
Ladson, Very kind of you to say. I have three planned, but I'm having trouble finding the time, as I have not yet retired. (4 more years, when I'm 72)I will try to progress those three, but will need cooler weather.
Great series of videos! I particularly appreciate the mathematics on dealing with backleaners. I have felled numerous trees and have frequently "cheated" by using a line to be sure the tree went where I wanted. Although I violate one of your preferences, here is my setup: I have a 2-ton "More Power" type winch (comealong) which I attach to a heavy duty web sling around the anchor tree and then hook this into a 3/4" nylon twist rope. The rope is then run through a sling which I place as high as I can on the tree to be felled. I put good tension on the comealong, notch the tree, make a bore cut and insert wedge(s) if needed, then go back and put some more tension on the winch, and then finish the back cut. Sometimes I do these two steps a couple of times. It's time-consuming, but I'm not getting paid for it, so I take my time and avoid injuries/accidents. As for getting the rope high into the tree, if I can't get it where I want it by throwing, I have a 16' plastic tube that was used to bring electricity down to my well. I run about 18 ft of a 50 ft mason line through it with a small weight on the end and then maneuver it into the crotch, hold onto the end of the mason line while I withdraw the pipe, and then tie the mason line to the rope and lower weighted end of the mason line to the ground and pull the rope as you do.
Janet, call McMaster-Carr, or Travers, or Acklands-Grainger, etc. they'll look it up for you. Even more interesting, you can try to search one of their catalogues...get to see lots of tools!
I just went through this exercise in my backyard today. Used a bowline at the throw bag. caught two branches with the throw and pulled up the cambium saver. Had trouble because the two rings of the cambium saver were not together - they were seperated by the second branch. was able to pull the climbing rope into the tree, but due to the lay of the large ring against the branch, was not able to retrieve it normally. Had to pull the entire throw line through and let it fly down with the throw bag, not the controlled decent I had planned. Thanks for the video!
Hi Camper, I've added field glasses to my "kit" so I can check for wasps and so I can check what my throw line has found. Beyond that, there's probably around half an hour of video needed on ways to dance your throw bag and line around branches, once your line is close to where you want it to be. I can't claim that experience, but various experts have distributed it in bits and pieces around UA-cam, such that probably 80% of it is available. I (hopefully) am not giving anyone the impression that I have much experience off the ground. If you think capturing two branches messed with your afternoon, wait until you see the climbing video I hope to post in the next 5 to 29 hours! Terry
You might want to try using a bowline attachment to the throwbag, if you haven't already. Make a bowline with a loop large enough to go around the throwbag; pass the bowline through the ring, then the throwbag goes through the bowline loop and gets girth hitched to the ring. No need to retie the bowline each time, just the girth hitch. I think it's a lot easier to get the line on and off the bag.
Good video, good subject and really well narrated. Thanks for putting this up. One thing to emphasize strongly is to ALWAYS wear at least safety glasses when using the Big Shot device. A few folks even recommend full-face shields like those used by chainsaw operators in the arborist profession. I own the Big Shot and have used it very often in Vermont to place suspension lines for large amateur radio antenna wire arrays. The trees in question require 60-80 foot shots. One major problem with the Big Shot, at least for me, has been figuring out the optimum way to position my throw bag in the slingshot pouch. Sideways ? Ring first ? Ring following ? MANY times I will get all set up, pull the rubbers down smoothly, double check my aim, then release the pouch only to get a huge misfire--something happens at the moment of release that either is causing my throw bag to hit the fork, or else that is tumbling my throw bag out of the pouch in just the first milliseconds after release. Result: My throw bag goes 0 to 8 feet. A second problem (this may be the key here) has been figuring out the correct way to grip the release tab on the underside of Big Shot pouch. I have tried different ways of gripping that tab and nothing tried yet seems to be the correct solution. The throw bags I have are standard 12 or 14 ounce oblong bags, commercially obtained from the usual manufacturers. To sum up: Something that occurs at the moment of releasing the grip tab is "upsetting the apple cart" and dumping my throw bag out of the pouch. I only get a successful launch maybe one out of five tries at best. Any suggestions Terry ? Thanks.
Jim, I have never had a misfire, so I'm a bit surprised that you have. The only guess I can make is that you are shooting with the fork up, rather than down. In the tradition sling-shot use I had as a kid, you always shot with the fork up. With the Big Shot, the fork should always be pointed down, placing it on the far side of the pole from you. In this orientation, the momentary effect of gravity during the acceleration is to move the trajectory down and away from the crotch of the fork. Additionally, it moves your eyes out of the line of a ruptured or separated tube. It does make aiming a bit trickier, as you are no longer sighting along the tubes. I hope this is the issue, otherwise, I have no clue.
@@terryhale9006 Thanks ! I have always used Fork Down. There must be something I am doing wrong with position of throwbag in the pouch or how I am gripping/releasing the tab on bottom of pouch.
I use 1" galvanized pipe cap and plug to the get an 8 oz weight, with a hole drilled for small eye-bolt for line attachment. (fill with bbs and epoxy to get 12 oz weight) Attach 65 lb braided fishing line to #4 snap swivel (Bass Pro Shop) and attach to line. I loosely stack line into a 5 gallon bucket instead of a throwing cube. With this light-weight line an 8 oz weight can be thrown over-handed high. Make several in case the weight gets stuck in the tree which does happen a lot.
Eight ounces seems very light. I would think that weight would have trouble pulling the line back down through the branches. Has that been an issue for you?
@@terryhale9006 I told you wrong on the pipe fitting size, I used an empty 1" for 8 oz, 1" filled with bbs and epoxy for 12 oz. Use a 1 1/4" cap and plug with bbs to make a 1 lb weight. The 8 oz has not got hung up much yet I think due to the thinness and low weight of the braided fishing line I use. If I have lower targets to hit and a lot of small branches in the way I will bulldoze through them with the 1 lb throw-weight. Like I said, I always have several of these home-made weights and lot of line with me in case things get caught. I am throwing over-handed with lot of force (for a 62-year-old man) so it isn't a gentle toss.
@@terryhale9006By the way, thank you for your excellent videos. I alway learn a lot from your generous expertise sharing. I certain don't mean to contradict anything you say. I'm just making due with what I have readily available around me.
I understand the frustration of misses... I got tired of trying to throw a weight where it needed to go and started using a slingshot (copy of a Wham-O Sportsmen) to shoot a lead weight with fishing line attached. The line feeds off a youth sized fishing pole. Once the fishing line is in place I attach a rope and pull it over the branch/crotch with the fishing reel. With the slingshot I usually hit my target on the first shot... far less frustrating than throwing and a lot easier to hit branches/crotches 50+ feet in the air. It was all stuff I had laying around so the marginal cost for this rig was zero! ;~)
Terry Hale + Stop if driving by a building structure being erected. Maybe you'll see the ground man Iron Worker underhand throwing 1" x 4" bolts, with nut and washer, up 40' to the second floor. In the 40s, it was hot rivits.
A different situation from trying to throw a weight trailing a line and getting it between branches to reach the intended target crotch... The line has an influence on the flight and the branches can snag it or otherwise interfere with the flight. Give it a try!
I used the same slingshot process but used a large nut covered with red tape for easier viewing. Used my fishing spinning reel with just the lower half of the pole. Then pulled up a larger string and then a rope. Worked well for up to about 30-35 feet.
@@terryhale9006 Hi, Terry! What am I thinking about now, is that I'll try to use my short old angler's rod for weight delivery - it has strong line and can comfortable throw to the long distance. Didn't you try that way?
@@terryhale9006 Wasn't expecting a reaction from the esteemed Mr. Hale, but just so you know...your content is fantastic, your no "BS" style is appreciated, and you're a very good teacher. You've probably saved a few limbs (hah!) with your safety info. Thanks!
...since i wasn't aiming at anything in particular, i've succeeded in hitting what has aiming... haha! Positive way of life! Personally, i just don't wear no watch, so i'm never late! =D
I can see that working nicely for low to intermediate heights. I'd definitely be worried about where it would come down if one were trying hard for a high branch.
If you have trouble throwing high enough into tall trees, just use a golf ball launcher. Run an eye bolt through the golf ball for a rope and put some slits in it where it seals along the barrel - that will slow the ball down a bit. You don't need it going at 1,000 ft/sec :) I imagine a potato gun could be used in a similar fashion.
WoW, the Big Shot Slingshot can quickly be made into the mortar tube of slingshots. Add a small universal, connecting to a 15 lb base. Add a fence jack to the tube, to triangle forward supports. Add a big protractor showing the angle of the tube. Use the same size weight every shot. Mark off different draw lengths on the tube. Develop a chart. Fire for effect, out.
On huge dying 100 year old cottonwood trees I have used a bow and arrow with light Line first working up with larger ropes to 1/2 in cable x 150 ft using a 4x4 or a tractor pulling them over and then the work starts
Bow and arrow works really well. I use small diameter weed-eater line as a pilot to sling (rock)climbing rope over branches of our >30m douglas firs when they block our view of the ocean...and the sailboat swinging on its mooring. I go up with saw and cellphone...wife directs what to cut from our deck. We leave the huge trees standing, with plenty of photosynthesis "lungs" above the horizon line of sight. I enjoy Terry Hale's intelligent videos, and love the math/physics.
It seems most all the trees I take down have no branches to toss a bag over. So I use an extension ladder. And a shorter length of rope, most likely. Yes, less moment arm as a result.
Just out of curiosity, what species of trees are you talking about? I have seen some pines in the south that are basically a pole for the first 60 feet.
Trying to find specifically, the Yale Cordage slickline/throwline is an exercise in futility. Every site I go to, including any listed on Yale's site of vendors, gets me nothing but Weaver and other companies that just don't look like what you are using. Have a link that you are certain sells that specific throwline?
Throwline is life saver! Slick, light pee-line is best; and bag of shot that absorbs shock and doesn't bounce out/slides down into target instead. . Can get by on baby parachute cord and mechanix bag of dirt to fit the needed characteristics for more of a home owner under 50ft. 1xQuickie; but if need a bunch of times, real bag/pee-line is fair investment. Store, clean; and 'flaked' loossely into container, don't tell it where to lay, let the loosseness of line work out the tensions naturally and free quick them off the end of the line w/o restrictions or the bag on it. . Sometimes make or even aim for wrong limb; sometimes can turn this into a success, by pulling bag up to about 3-4' under limb; then snap down hard to make it pull bag up quick and get it to come off limb and back flip over onto correct target limb!! We call this 'walking the dog' and can even be used on a lucky day to succesfully walk up the stairs with ball to proper target!!! . For palms, broken tops etc: mytreelessons.com/rl/images/throwline_no_branches.png limits to use; are your own creativity! . i prefer tie pee-line to ring with Slipped Anchor Hitch; others like a Bowline or other eye large enough to slide thru ring, around bottom of ball to lock in Girth Hitch on other side. Any way you go, the utility of quick on/off for ball can be very important to focus/lack of frustrations. . Some guys can throw the thing crazy good overhand 1handed . i need the between the legs balanced 2 handed sling throw for accuracy. Tho facing away from target and sling between legs backwards over gives best leverage/least accuracy. Big Shot is a miracle worker!
9:09 - I’m 60 years old: I grasp & appreciate the Wilt Chamberlain reference! Terry, what is your profession? I can tell that you’re a professional at instructing. And even though you don’t flaunt it, you can’t hide the fact that you’re an intellectual. I suspect that you’re a university professor. Please confirm.
I have no experience with that. Hope it works well. I have heard about some people beating the slingshot heights with a bow. I would be concerned about the arrow not having enough weight to pull the line down. Also worry about the arrow getting fouled in branches on its way down. I'd appreciate hearing of your experience, however it goes.
@@terryhale9006 The arrow getting fouled would be a concern, but in open ground like a yard, I think you could just shoot through. I haven't shot my bow in years, but I'm itching to try this.
I've heard several people using that approach. Sounds like the way to go if you need to get your line up over 90 feet. Do you use heavier than normal arrows? Most of my arrows are on the light side and I would worry that they might not be able to pull a line back down if there is much friction.
I use a dasie youth bow with 23" target arrows I drilled a 1/8 " hole right behind the feathes . I black taped the lower half of an 8 dollar fishing pole to the center of the bow just below were the arrow comes out there is 6lb pound test on the reel after a successful shot I tie 30 Lb pound test , then I use 1/8 galvanized air craft cable I connect the cable to a stump or tree in the direction I want the tree to fall with harbor fright cable hoist I pull the tree down after cutting notch in in the direction I want it to fall you have to make shore the pull cable is long enough or the tree will fall on you I had to run away more than once because the pull was to short you have to wacth and lissen and have a planed escape route I have taken down oaks over 100' high a 2' thick between power lines and house it was nice to see that you read my comment thanks
@@terryhale9006 I too have used the bow and arrow/fishing line method successfully and with the problem you mention of the arrow not having enough weight, hence the reason I searched for this vid. While I cannot justify spending that much on the slingshot you demonstrated, I do like the idea of a wrist slingshot with a lead sinker for this weakend woodsman. Great videos...you seem to certainly know a thing or 2 about felling trees safely....(just get a little closer to the camera when showing knot tying 😉)
i would like to really thank you for all your efforts. i have watched a lot of videos and read several books and thankfully just finished felling a dozen or so 30m trees safely. your series is by far the best and will no doubt reduce a lot of accidents. i only have a couple more to go and i will wait til the leaves are off. i have a mature Ash (English) with a horizontal half metre thick limb that needs to go for the sake of light to the house. do i just treat this as a severe leaner?
That sounds like a lot of work. It's been so dry here that a lot of leaves are prematurely falling off. I'm looking forward to the September cool-down.
That would probably work, but something a bit heavier would probably be better. Some mass is needed to pull the weight of the string up to a good height and overcome its air resistance.
Try a nut tied to 30 pound fishing line and a slingshot to get it over a high limb, then tie a rope to that and eventually your chain. It's more accurate and you can get it up higher than you can throw.
I wonder if a good caster could get the accuracy to cast it over with a fishing pole? Hmmm. A former coast dweller like me has some heavy weight mono on some big rods.
to get a rope over a high tree limb i often use an old trick the Natives use for setting fishing nets under the ice. or at least part of their trick. Dene will set hundred foot nets under ice by using this method to pass a rope from one hole to another until they have the full net length under the ice then tie one end of the net [weighted to sink below the ice] to each end of the rope and pull the rope out from under the ice while pulling the net under the ice tie a short piece of stick to the end of your rope and using a pole with a short y crotch near the top reach the rope and stick up and over the limb [ tension on the rope keeps the stick at the y] then use the y crotch to hook the stick and pull the rope back down the tree. generally i tie the rope off to 2 anchors either side of the direction i want the tree to fall and tension the rope by pulling to 2 anchor tropes together. I don't pull down the tree but get it leaning in the required direction then cut the tree with a bow saw to complete the job
true enough Terry, and of course in many cases that required pole simply is not available. I only mentioned it to provide Variety , the Spice of life. I like Options; the more we have the better . Generally i use the trick when the tree in question is a fir or spruce with many interfering limbs preventing a good throw to your intended target limb.
@@terryhale9006 TBHonest It get's waaaaay high and accuracy is awesome. Not blowing my own trumpet, just sharing tips. Use a hand reel on the ground with thin fishing line to begin. otherwise you can get a second person to hold it perfectly in the right direction so the line just peels off with no obstruction. Works like a charm. We had a tree lopper in once and he did the same thing with a bow and arrow.
I've used a lead sinker, fishing line and slingshot... tie the line to the rope, shoot the sinker with the slingshot... well you get the idea... I found it more accurate than your method...
IMHO the anchor knot is a pain, easier to ti a simple loop not and use it to girth hitch thru the ring. I will gaar raun tee you are going to hang that bag and when you really tug on it that anchor knot is going to be a pain to get loose. When you are ready to pull rope use the same girth hitch to attach throw line to climb line with a couple half hitches on the lead end.FWIW
Good stuff, Terry. I really enjoy your analyses. FYI, the "anchor knot" is actually not a knot, rather it's a hitch (that which attaches a rope to an object). More bizarrely, it's most commonly known by its misnomer: anchor bend (Ashley book of knots 1723). But a "bend" of course refers to a rope/line attached to another rope/line, which it is also not. To me, it appears you're not including the final turn and half-hitch about the standing part, which certainly makes it easier to untie, but is not nearly as secure. Here's one of many correct demonstrations of how to tie an anchor hitch: ua-cam.com/video/UWnyjnjVxLA/v-deo.html which is indeed a good choice of hitch for the throw bag. Enjoy! @wesfree ps: love the "Hale postulates" to the laws of Thermodynamics...
Thanks, Wesley. The "anchor knot" is generally recognized as not being appropriate for life support. As a hitch for the throw bag, using it without a turn and half-hitch is definitely preferred, specifically because it is not secure. While I have never had the hitch fail in normal use, I have had two occasions where the bag got jammed and I was able to repeatedly pull hard on the line and eventually got the hitch to let go of the bag so I was able to retrieve both line and bag without having to climb for them.
Walter, My apologies. What I actually said was a "throwing Cube". I was referring to the cubical box that is designed to hold the throwing line. They are big enough for the line to spread out over the bottom and they can then be folded flat to minimize storage and keep the line from developing kinks or tight bends. While I said "throwing cube", I actually meant to say "Throwing Line Cube". Again, my apologies.
@@terryhale9006 Hello Terry Thanks for the reply and explanation . I saw the square canvas bag cube and did think it may have been part of the rig ... Thanks Again Be Well and Stay Safe Walter ~
I don't know about using the weight bag, but I have threaded fishing line through a tennis ball (using a tire plug kit) and used a chuck-it to throw the ball over a branch...works awesome!
commonconservative + I have one, converting it to an arrow gun. The bag weighs more than a tennis ball, regardless, the gun wouldn't provide enough range. But someone could begin producing such a tool. Ajustable even. Better would be a trained squirrel.
If you're looking for exciting action, you're looking in the wrong place. This video is posted under the category of "education", not adventure. As to talking too much, education is about communication. While talking may not be necessary for education, it is generally the most efficient means.
Sorry you're not finding what you want. My series is intended to assist those who don't have a lot of experience with tree felling and are looking for information before they stumble into an adventure that may not go well. I'm also sorry that you interpreted the presentation as "showing off". I think your assessment is both off the mark and a bit unkind.
"... and since I wasn't aiming at anything in particular, I've succeeded in hitting what I was aiming for"
I love this guy.
Haha! I'm going to use that when I go plinking with my .22 rifle.
"i show one of those in all of its gracefulness" lol yes he's great
I have been cutting trees for firewood for many years, learning by the school of hard knocks most of what I know. Your video's explain the science physics of this type of work in a manner that is down to earth (not a pun ) and easily understood. You are an excellent instructor. I have no doubt you have prevented hundreds of possible injuries. Great job!
Someone else said, "You are an excellent instructor. " I wholeheartedly agree! Thank you for taking the time to make these videos.
Thank you Terry for your video. I was prepared to watch several except yours pretty much covered it and answered my questions. I have cut well over 100 trees and other than climbing what I use to have access, to which was a neighbors 40-ft ladder, I have never scaled a tree ( other than climbing branches) to place a rope. I have done pretty much everything you show in your video but just not with the expertise and grace you show here.
For higher limbs and tree crotches I've had good success using a bow and arrow, with heavy duty fishing line secured above the notch end of a target arrow. Sometimes I'll add weight to the tip of the arrow to encourage its descent despite the drag friction of the line. Then, with my rope secured to the fishing line, I pull the line to get the rope over the limb, or through the crotch.
The very experienced arborist that does many tall pines in our cottage area always twirls his throw line from one side and lets it go after building up his speed and diameter until he lets it go. He is amazingly accurate and obviously comes with decades of experience. I remember gathering a group of neighbours to have them watch his skill but most of them missed it because he nailed the toss on his first attempt before everyone had time to gather together. The lowest branch was probably 75’ in the air and a leaner to boot.
Very impressive. Sound like David's accuracy against Goliath.
Mr Hale you do a fantastic job. Your clear voice-without throwing in unrelated material is much appreciated. Your illustrations are extremely well done and helpful. I’ve watched dozens of films on this topic none can compare with yours. I am instrument rated pilot and orthopaedic surgeon-have seen some talented instructors, but none any better than you. THANK YOU-FOR YOUR UNSELFISH CONTRIBUTION TO THE KNOWLEDGE AND SAFETY of those of us enjoying our time in the woods.
The best advice he gives that pertains to most all his videos is written at the end of this video!
Thanks for taking all the time to put this series together. Excellent instruction. I hope the back leaner doesn't end up in my buddies house
Cringeworthy!
Sir: Congratulations on this amazing series of videos. This is really high quality material. Very professional, technical and informative. Thank you very much! Plus it's fun and the "weakened" stuff made me smile all along. Great job.
Thanks much Ace!
You are such a great teacher. I REALLY REALLY wish you would keep making tutorials like this
Ladson, Very kind of you to say. I have three planned, but I'm having trouble finding the time, as I have not yet retired. (4 more years, when I'm 72)I will try to progress those three, but will need cooler weather.
Terry Hale well you need to retire immediately. Obviously our need for your stellar videos outweigh your need to make money. Come on Terry! Lol
Old guys rock. Excellent vid.
Thanks, Mark. I no longer wince when my age is pointed out. It just is.
Great series of videos! I particularly appreciate the mathematics on dealing with backleaners. I have felled numerous trees and have frequently "cheated" by using a line to be sure the tree went where I wanted. Although I violate one of your preferences, here is my setup: I have a 2-ton "More Power" type winch (comealong) which I attach to a heavy duty web sling around the anchor tree and then hook this into a 3/4" nylon twist rope. The rope is then run through a sling which I place as high as I can on the tree to be felled. I put good tension on the comealong, notch the tree, make a bore cut and insert wedge(s) if needed, then go back and put some more tension on the winch, and then finish the back cut. Sometimes I do these two steps a couple of times. It's time-consuming, but I'm not getting paid for it, so I take my time and avoid injuries/accidents.
As for getting the rope high into the tree, if I can't get it where I want it by throwing, I have a 16' plastic tube that was used to bring electricity down to my well. I run about 18 ft of a 50 ft mason line through it with a small weight on the end and then maneuver it into the crotch, hold onto the end of the mason line while I withdraw the pipe, and then tie the mason line to the rope and lower weighted end of the mason line to the ground and pull the rope as you do.
Sounds completely reasonable. Using the strong rope is fine, as long as you're pretty sure the tension in it will not get near its breaking strength.
what is the largest size drill available on a no 1 morse taper shank
Janet, call McMaster-Carr, or Travers, or Acklands-Grainger, etc. they'll look it up for you. Even more interesting, you can try to search one of their catalogues...get to see lots of tools!
Gosh I sure wish I was even a quarter as smart as you are! Just found your videos and am loving them! Thanks so much for taking the time!!!
Thanks for your appreciation!
Thank you for your knowledge and wisdom
Thank you so much! I really appreciate you making this video it was helpful, practical and technically instructive. With warm regards
Thank you, Louise!
I just went through this exercise in my backyard today. Used a bowline at the throw bag. caught two branches with the throw and pulled up the cambium saver. Had trouble because the two rings of the cambium saver were not together - they were seperated by the second branch. was able to pull the climbing rope into the tree, but due to the lay of the large ring against the branch, was not able to retrieve it normally. Had to pull the entire throw line through and let it fly down with the throw bag, not the controlled decent I had planned. Thanks for the video!
Hi Camper,
I've added field glasses to my "kit" so I can check for wasps and so I can check what my throw line has found. Beyond that, there's probably around half an hour of video needed on ways to dance your throw bag and line around branches, once your line is close to where you want it to be. I can't claim that experience, but various experts have distributed it in bits and pieces around UA-cam, such that probably 80% of it is available.
I (hopefully) am not giving anyone the impression that I have much experience off the ground.
If you think capturing two branches messed with your afternoon, wait until you see the climbing video I hope to post in the next 5 to 29 hours!
Terry
You might want to try using a bowline attachment to the throwbag, if you haven't already. Make a bowline with a loop large enough to go around the throwbag; pass the bowline through the ring, then the throwbag goes through the bowline loop and gets girth hitched to the ring. No need to retie the bowline each time, just the girth hitch. I think it's a lot easier to get the line on and off the bag.
I can't think of a downside to that idea. Thanks.
You are amazing teacher and consider myself very lucky to be able to subscribe to your site. Thank you!
Very kind of you , Ray. Thanks!
Great series. Loved every minute of it. Even the math.
Thanks! Write on!
Good video, good subject and really well narrated. Thanks for putting this up. One thing to emphasize strongly is to ALWAYS wear at least safety glasses when using the Big Shot device. A few folks even recommend full-face shields like those used by chainsaw operators in the arborist profession.
I own the Big Shot and have used it very often in Vermont to place suspension lines for large amateur radio antenna wire arrays. The trees in question require 60-80 foot shots. One major problem with the Big Shot, at least for me, has been figuring out the optimum way to position my throw bag in the slingshot pouch. Sideways ? Ring first ? Ring following ? MANY times I will get all set up, pull the rubbers down smoothly, double check my aim, then release the pouch only to get a huge misfire--something happens at the moment of release that either is causing my throw bag to hit the fork, or else that is tumbling my throw bag out of the pouch in just the first milliseconds after release. Result: My throw bag goes 0 to 8 feet. A second problem (this may be the key here) has been figuring out the correct way to grip the release tab on the underside of Big Shot pouch. I have tried different ways of gripping that tab and nothing tried yet seems to be the correct solution. The throw bags I have are standard 12 or 14 ounce oblong bags, commercially obtained from the usual manufacturers.
To sum up: Something that occurs at the moment of releasing the grip tab is "upsetting the apple cart" and dumping my throw bag out of the pouch. I only get a successful launch maybe one out of five tries at best. Any suggestions Terry ? Thanks.
Jim, I have never had a misfire, so I'm a bit surprised that you have. The only guess I can make is that you are shooting with the fork up, rather than down. In the tradition sling-shot use I had as a kid, you always shot with the fork up. With the Big Shot, the fork should always be pointed down, placing it on the far side of the pole from you. In this orientation, the momentary effect of gravity during the acceleration is to move the trajectory down and away from the crotch of the fork. Additionally, it moves your eyes out of the line of a ruptured or separated tube. It does make aiming a bit trickier, as you are no longer sighting along the tubes. I hope this is the issue, otherwise, I have no clue.
@@terryhale9006 Thanks ! I have always used Fork Down. There must be something I am doing wrong with position of throwbag in the pouch or how I am gripping/releasing the tab on bottom of pouch.
I use 1" galvanized pipe cap and plug to the get an 8 oz weight, with a hole drilled for small eye-bolt for line attachment. (fill with bbs and epoxy to get 12 oz weight) Attach 65 lb braided fishing line to #4 snap swivel (Bass Pro Shop) and attach to line. I loosely stack line into a 5 gallon bucket instead of a throwing cube. With this light-weight line an 8 oz weight can be thrown over-handed high. Make several in case the weight gets stuck in the tree which does happen a lot.
Eight ounces seems very light. I would think that weight would have trouble pulling the line back down through the branches. Has that been an issue for you?
@@terryhale9006 I told you wrong on the pipe fitting size, I used an empty 1" for 8 oz, 1" filled with bbs and epoxy for 12 oz. Use a 1 1/4" cap and plug with bbs to make a 1 lb weight. The 8 oz has not got hung up much yet I think due to the thinness and low weight of the braided fishing line I use. If I have lower targets to hit and a lot of small branches in the way I will bulldoze through them with the 1 lb throw-weight. Like I said, I always have several of these home-made weights and lot of line with me in case things get caught. I am throwing over-handed with lot of force (for a 62-year-old man) so it isn't a gentle toss.
@@terryhale9006By the way, thank you for your excellent videos. I alway learn a lot from your generous expertise sharing. I certain don't mean to contradict anything you say. I'm just making due with what I have readily available around me.
I understand the frustration of misses... I got tired of trying to throw a weight where it needed to go and started using a slingshot (copy of a Wham-O Sportsmen) to shoot a lead weight with fishing line attached. The line feeds off a youth sized fishing pole. Once the fishing line is in place I attach a rope and pull it over the branch/crotch with the fishing reel. With the slingshot I usually hit my target on the first shot... far less frustrating than throwing and a lot easier to hit branches/crotches 50+ feet in the air. It was all stuff I had laying around so the marginal cost for this rig was zero! ;~)
Very frustrating. I'm beginning to wonder if it is actually possible to to become an expert at hitting the high shots by throwing.
Terry Hale + Stop if driving by a building structure being erected. Maybe you'll see the ground man Iron Worker underhand throwing 1" x 4" bolts, with nut and washer, up 40' to the second floor. In the 40s, it was hot rivits.
....If you walk by a steel building structure being erected..
A different situation from trying to throw a weight trailing a line and getting it between branches to reach the intended target crotch... The line has an influence on the flight and the branches can snag it or otherwise interfere with the flight. Give it a try!
I used the same slingshot process but used a large nut covered with red tape for easier viewing. Used my fishing spinning reel with just the lower half of the pole. Then pulled up a larger string and then a rope. Worked well for up to about 30-35 feet.
Want to give million likes for that guy, that's exactly what I'm searching for
Great!
@@terryhale9006 Hi, Terry! What am I thinking about now, is that I'll try to use my short old angler's rod for weight delivery - it has strong line and can comfortable throw to the long distance. Didn't you try that way?
He got the "like" for the Wilt Chamberlain reference alone, much less the other great content.
Ha ha!
@@terryhale9006 Wasn't expecting a reaction from the esteemed Mr. Hale, but just so you know...your content is fantastic, your no "BS" style is appreciated, and you're a very good teacher. You've probably saved a few limbs (hah!) with your safety info. Thanks!
Have you ever done any teaching? You have a very professional delivery. Reminds me of a college professor.
Just the occasional adult education lectures; not the hard stuff with kids.
...since i wasn't aiming at anything in particular, i've succeeded in hitting what has aiming... haha! Positive way of life! Personally, i just don't wear no watch, so i'm never late! =D
thank you terry. I mainly use a hatchet works almost every time.
I can see that working nicely for low to intermediate heights. I'd definitely be worried about where it would come down if one were trying hard for a high branch.
I have used a hammer for the same purpose, but I consider it to be foolishly risky. "Every tree looks like a nail if all you have is a hammer"
If you have trouble throwing high enough into tall trees, just use a golf ball launcher. Run an eye bolt through the golf ball for a rope and put some slits in it where it seals along the barrel - that will slow the ball down a bit. You don't need it going at 1,000 ft/sec :)
I imagine a potato gun could be used in a similar fashion.
WoW, the Big Shot Slingshot can quickly be made into the mortar tube of slingshots. Add a small universal, connecting to a 15 lb base. Add a fence jack to the tube, to triangle forward supports. Add a big protractor showing the angle of the tube. Use the same size weight every shot. Mark off different draw lengths on the tube. Develop a chart. Fire for effect, out.
11B or 13F?
Never knew about that anchor knot, I'll be using it for a lot of thing!
Don't. It's good for throw bags, but don't trust it with your life.
On huge dying 100 year old cottonwood trees I have used a bow and arrow with light Line first working up with larger ropes to 1/2 in cable x 150 ft using a 4x4 or a tractor pulling them over and then the work starts
Big poplars!
Bow and arrow works really well. I use small diameter weed-eater line as a pilot to sling (rock)climbing rope over branches of our >30m douglas firs when they block our view of the ocean...and the sailboat swinging on its mooring. I go up with saw and cellphone...wife directs what to cut from our deck. We leave the huge trees standing, with plenty of photosynthesis "lungs" above the horizon line of sight.
I enjoy Terry Hale's intelligent videos, and love the math/physics.
It seems most all the trees I take down have no branches to toss a bag over. So I use an extension ladder. And a shorter length of rope, most likely. Yes, less moment arm as a result.
Just out of curiosity, what species of trees are you talking about? I have seen some pines in the south that are basically a pole for the first 60 feet.
use a drone to fly the rope over the branch? awesome vids
There aren't lots of good videos on how to get the rope up in the tree. This is the first one I've found
Is "weakened" intentional, or did you mean weekend?
Thanks for asking. Old man with a pacemaker. Definitely weakened. Alas.
What a great educational video. The "line that is leaving" is the "load line".
Trying to find specifically, the Yale Cordage slickline/throwline is an exercise in futility. Every site I go to, including any listed on Yale's site of vendors, gets me nothing but Weaver and other companies that just don't look like what you are using. Have a link that you are certain sells that specific throwline?
Any good slickline will do. You want a long-fiber plastic that will be smooth. Definitely not cotton string.
Thank you for sharing your information. Would've liked to see the knot tying better, though.
Sorry about that. It was pretty poorly shown. I'll plan on doing a brief video just on the knots.
Looking forward to that video!
Throwline is life saver!
Slick, light pee-line is best; and bag of shot that absorbs shock and doesn't bounce out/slides down into target instead.
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Can get by on baby parachute cord and mechanix bag of dirt to fit the needed characteristics for more of a home owner under 50ft. 1xQuickie; but if need a bunch of times, real bag/pee-line is fair investment. Store, clean; and 'flaked' loossely into container, don't tell it where to lay, let the loosseness of line work out the tensions naturally and free quick them off the end of the line w/o restrictions or the bag on it.
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Sometimes make or even aim for wrong limb;
sometimes can turn this into a success, by pulling bag up to about 3-4' under limb;
then snap down hard to make it pull bag up quick and get it to come off limb and back flip over onto correct target limb!!
We call this 'walking the dog' and can even be used on a lucky day to succesfully walk up the stairs with ball to proper target!!!
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For palms, broken tops etc:
mytreelessons.com/rl/images/throwline_no_branches.png
limits to use; are your own creativity!
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i prefer tie pee-line to ring with Slipped Anchor Hitch;
others like a Bowline or other eye large enough to slide thru ring, around bottom of ball to lock in Girth Hitch on other side.
Any way you go, the utility of quick on/off for ball can be very important to focus/lack of frustrations.
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Some guys can throw the thing crazy good overhand 1handed .
i need the between the legs balanced 2 handed sling throw for accuracy.
Tho facing away from target and sling between legs backwards over gives best leverage/least accuracy. Big Shot is a miracle worker!
Ever considered a bow or crossbow set up for bow fishing?
I know it's been done, but I rarely deal with trees over 100 feet tall.
9:09 - I’m 60 years old: I grasp & appreciate the Wilt Chamberlain reference! Terry, what is your profession? I can tell that you’re a professional at instructing. And even though you don’t flaunt it, you can’t hide the fact that you’re an intellectual. I suspect that you’re a university professor. Please confirm.
You give me too much credit, but Thank you. I'm a civil engineer and computer programmer.
Like the slingshot, but I'm considering a bow and using something similar to a bowfishing rig.
I have no experience with that. Hope it works well. I have heard about some people beating the slingshot heights with a bow. I would be concerned about the arrow not having enough weight to pull the line down. Also worry about the arrow getting fouled in branches on its way down. I'd appreciate hearing of your experience, however it goes.
@@terryhale9006 The arrow getting fouled would be a concern, but in open ground like a yard, I think you could just shoot through. I haven't shot my bow in years, but I'm itching to try this.
Well done.
thanks, that was quick. beats reading a book.
I use a bow and arrow with fishing reel attached to the bow
I've heard several people using that approach. Sounds like the way to go if you need to get your line up over 90 feet. Do you use heavier than normal arrows? Most of my arrows are on the light side and I would worry that they might not be able to pull a line back down if there is much friction.
I use a dasie youth bow with 23" target arrows I drilled a 1/8 " hole right behind the feathes . I black taped the lower half of an 8 dollar fishing pole to the center of the bow just below were the arrow comes out there is 6lb pound test on the reel after a successful shot I tie 30 Lb pound test , then I use 1/8 galvanized air craft cable I connect the cable to a stump or tree in the direction I want the tree to fall with harbor fright cable hoist I pull the tree down after cutting notch in in the direction I want it to fall you have to make shore the pull cable is long enough or the tree will fall on you I had to run away more than once because the pull was to short you have to wacth and lissen and have a planed escape route I have taken down oaks over 100' high a 2' thick between power lines and house it was nice to see that you read my comment thanks
@@terryhale9006 I too have used the bow and arrow/fishing line method successfully and with the problem you mention of the arrow not having enough weight, hence the reason I searched for this vid. While I cannot justify spending that much on the slingshot you demonstrated, I do like the idea of a wrist slingshot with a lead sinker for this weakend woodsman. Great videos...you seem to certainly know a thing or 2 about felling trees safely....(just get a little closer to the camera when showing knot tying 😉)
THANKS FOR THIS VIDEO!
i would like to really thank you for all your efforts. i have watched a lot of videos and read several books and thankfully just finished felling a dozen or so 30m trees safely. your series is by far the best and will no doubt reduce a lot of accidents.
i only have a couple more to go and i will wait til the leaves are off.
i have a mature Ash (English) with a horizontal half metre thick limb that needs to go for the sake of light to the house. do i just treat this as a severe leaner?
That sounds like a lot of work.
It's been so dry here that a lot of leaves are prematurely falling off. I'm looking forward to the September cool-down.
raining in north england and 12 deg centigrade
How about repurposing golf ball or tennis ball?
That would probably work, but something a bit heavier would probably be better. Some mass is needed to pull the weight of the string up to a good height and overcome its air resistance.
@@terryhale9006 id hafto inquire a pitcher. 😆
A canon with a six pound ball would get it up half a mile. 🤣
Nice video series, with good info. I decided long ago to leave tree felling to the pros.
I think that was the preferred way to take out the rigging on a three master sailing ship.
thank you sir
Ok. How about an 18mm box end wrench tied to 100 feet of nylon string? Works for me.
Should be fine, as long as you're no going for a branch 55 feet up.
Try a nut tied to 30 pound fishing line and a slingshot to get it over a high limb, then tie a rope to that and eventually your chain. It's more accurate and you can get it up higher than you can throw.
Sounds good for the occasional user, Bill.
I wonder if a good caster could get the accuracy to cast it over with a fishing pole? Hmmm. A former coast dweller like me has some heavy weight mono on some big rods.
15:54 Brilliant!
Love that humor. Lmao
Potato gun as a launcher for the throw weight.....?
Would probably work.
to get a rope over a high tree limb i often use an old trick the Natives use for setting fishing nets under the ice.
or at least part of their trick.
Dene will set hundred foot nets under ice by using this method to pass a rope from one hole to another until they have the full net length under the ice then tie one end of the net [weighted to sink below the ice] to each end of the rope and pull the rope out from under the ice while pulling the net under the ice
tie a short piece of stick to the end of your rope and using a pole with a short y crotch near the top reach the rope and stick up and over the limb [ tension on the rope keeps the stick at the y]
then use the y crotch to hook the stick and pull the rope back down the tree.
generally i tie the rope off to 2 anchors either side of the direction i want the tree to fall and tension the rope by pulling to 2 anchor tropes together.
I don't pull down the tree but get it leaning in the required direction then cut the tree with a bow saw to complete the job
Thanks Mike. Neat trick. In a lot of the climbing, the lowest branch you're after is 30 feet up, making it tough to manage a pole to reach that high.
true enough Terry, and of course in many cases that required pole simply is not available.
I only mentioned it to provide Variety , the Spice of life.
I like Options; the more we have the better .
Generally i use the trick when the tree in question is a fir or spruce with many interfering limbs preventing a good throw to your intended target limb.
Tools in the toolbox.
Gotta have one of those big shots...watch out neighbors! JK! Great videos, thanks!
Totally new horizon for mischief.
I use a shanghai, a sinker and fishing line to start it off, then I tie it to much thicker fishing line, and finally to a rope.
Sounds pretty good. What kinds of heights can you cast to and what kind of accuracy do you get?
@@terryhale9006 TBHonest It get's waaaaay high and accuracy is awesome. Not blowing my own trumpet, just sharing tips. Use a hand reel on the ground with thin fishing line to begin. otherwise you can get a second person to hold it perfectly in the right direction so the line just peels off with no obstruction. Works like a charm. We had a tree lopper in once and he did the same thing with a bow and arrow.
Just fast forward to 15:38.
I wonder how a potato gun would work for that job either using compressed air or an Ignition source
Several people have crafted compressed air cannons for just that purpose.
A wise man once told me, its easier to pull a rope then to push it.
I've used a lead sinker, fishing line and slingshot... tie the line to the rope, shoot the sinker with the slingshot... well you get the idea... I found it more accurate than your method...
Absolutely! When you can project along a straight path, accuracy should be much better. The Big Shot sling shot is a huge help.
Great idea!!!
Weakend or weekend
Sadly, weakened. Old guy with a pacemaker.
when you teach knot tying you might try keeping your hands on camera. Speaking of which, Do a knot vid.
Sorry 'bout that. Good idea, Ed. I'm about ready for something that doesn't involve soaking my undershirt.
@@terryhale9006 Keep going Terry. You're an inspiration to some of us older guys who are new to this.
16:16 This is the other channel 'Climbing Arborist' video "Throwline tips & tricks": ua-cam.com/video/SO_XjSVGdHQ/v-deo.html
IMHO the anchor knot is a pain, easier to ti a simple loop not and use it to girth hitch thru the ring. I will gaar raun tee you are going to hang that bag and when you really tug on it that anchor knot is going to be a pain to get loose. When you are ready to pull rope use the same girth hitch to attach throw line to climb line with a couple half hitches on the lead end.FWIW
im not sure home owners should be doin this, 2 reasons 1 they dont know what to do after setting line" 2 dangerouse if you get it wrong"
Other videos in the series attempt to address those issues.
BC faller training youtubes this guy when they want to make a video
Nah, but thanks for pretending.
Good stuff, Terry. I really enjoy your analyses. FYI, the "anchor knot" is actually not a knot, rather it's a hitch (that which attaches a rope to an object). More bizarrely, it's most commonly known by its misnomer: anchor bend (Ashley book of knots 1723). But a "bend" of course refers to a rope/line attached to another rope/line, which it is also not. To me, it appears you're not including the final turn and half-hitch about the standing part, which certainly makes it easier to untie, but is not nearly as secure. Here's one of many correct demonstrations of how to tie an anchor hitch: ua-cam.com/video/UWnyjnjVxLA/v-deo.html which is indeed a good choice of hitch for the throw bag.
Enjoy!
@wesfree
ps: love the "Hale postulates" to the laws of Thermodynamics...
Thanks, Wesley. The "anchor knot" is generally recognized as not being appropriate for life support. As a hitch for the throw bag, using it without a turn and half-hitch is definitely preferred, specifically because it is not secure. While I have never had the hitch fail in normal use, I have had two occasions where the bag got jammed and I was able to repeatedly pull hard on the line and eventually got the hitch to let go of the bag so I was able to retrieve both line and bag without having to climb for them.
15:46 at last he shoots
he mentions a 'Throwing TUBE " ?? WHAT is that ? He mentions it ,BUT doesnt Show or EXPLAIN it ??? Poor Explaination : (
Walter, My apologies. What I actually said was a "throwing Cube". I was referring to the cubical box that is designed to hold the throwing line. They are big enough for the line to spread out over the bottom and they can then be folded flat to minimize storage and keep the line from developing kinks or tight bends. While I said "throwing cube", I actually meant to say "Throwing Line Cube". Again, my apologies.
@@terryhale9006
Hello Terry
Thanks for the reply and explanation . I saw the square canvas bag cube and did think it may have been part of the rig ...
Thanks Again
Be Well and Stay Safe
Walter ~
Dog tennis ball thrower works for me.
i wonder if a tennis ball launcher used by dog owners at the park would launch those shot bags ?
I don't know about using the weight bag, but I have threaded fishing line through a tennis ball (using a tire plug kit) and used a chuck-it to throw the ball over a branch...works awesome!
commonconservative + I have one, converting it to an arrow gun. The bag weighs more than a tennis ball, regardless, the gun wouldn't provide enough range. But someone could begin producing such a tool. Ajustable even. Better would be a trained squirrel.
Y'all are praising this fella . me not so much. He needs to tuck them ears in fore he gets them caught in the slingshot
10 minutes talking to through a line
You can't even spell...so shut up!
again talking to much and no action at all
If you're looking for exciting action, you're looking in the wrong place. This video is posted under the category of "education", not adventure. As to talking too much, education is about communication. While talking may not be necessary for education, it is generally the most efficient means.
more show off then anything else
Sorry you're not finding what you want. My series is intended to assist those who don't have a lot of experience with tree felling and are looking for information before they stumble into an adventure that may not go well.
I'm also sorry that you interpreted the presentation as "showing off". I think your assessment is both off the mark and a bit unkind.
Carlos Defreitas: to "through" a line? "then" anything else? You need to find some spelling videos, of the "elementary" kind.