Education in NL: Preschool - High School
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
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Hi, welcome to Jovie's Home!
Today, I'm talking about the Dutch education system. Thanks so much to Skillshare for sponsoring today's video.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:34 Dutch Word of the Day
01:09 Peuterspeelzaal/Preschool
02:54 Basis/Elementary School
05:14 Skillshare Sponsored Segment
07:20 Middlebare/High School
13:48 Outro
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Onderwijs would be my translation for education, it is just the general word for every type of schooling and education. Opleiding could also be a translation of education, but opleiding is more commonly used when it is a type of education for a specific goal, mostly for a specific career or work direction. I would mostly use opleiding for every type of education after high school, so MBO, HBO, or universiteit. Another way I would use opleiding is for a puppy/dog training, so a honden opleiding, but training is also commonly used in Dutch for that. Hope this helps!
Not every child has the same academic ability or interest. That is one (of the) reason there are three different types of secondary school (VMBO, havo and vwo). These 3 don't only differ in length, but also in type of subjects (classes) and depth/theoretical level. VMBO prepares for MBO which are vocational schools that prepares learners for jobs that are based in manual or practical activities, traditionally non-academic and totally related to a specific trade, occupation or vocation (i.e. nursing, administration, electrician, laboratory analist, etc). Havo prepares for HBO with are usually 4 year colleges delivering a bachelors degree or equivalent. Some of these call themselves University of applied sciences. Can be in similar areas as MBO but then at a higher / more theoretical level. VWO is most theoretical and prepares for university. Classes can include Latin or Greek and more independance and personal ambition is expected here. As Dutch universities have adopted the bachelors/masters model, students first obtain a bachelor's degree after 3/4 years, but the primary focus of universities is to deliver Masters and PhD diploma's. So to become a (medical) doctor you have to go to university, while nursing is studied at MBO and HBO.
What I mis in your explenation is Speciaal Onderwijs. That's for children with learning disabilities or behavioural problems who can't cope on regular schools (too much distraction...). Speciaal Onderwijs has smaller groups and more specialised personel to help the children on their own tempo and level. Often they are able to go from our Special Onderwijs school to regular VMBO or HAVO or VWO, and if not there is also a Voortgezet Speciaal Onderwijs. I for instance work with children with ASS (Autistic Spectrum Stoornis) who can't survive in a class with other children. I have 3 pupils and each of them has their own little classroom with their own mentor. I as a teacher go from child to child for instruction and then they work with ther mentor. Every child should be able to go to school!
Thank you for sharing. I am planning to do a whole video on that subject. I absolutely agree, all children should be able to go to school!
It's actually even more complex 😅 but this is good basic overview 👍🏻😁
It is quite flexible indeed. I started at a 'regular' elementary school and quite quickly went to a 'special education' school and learned a lot here. After a few years, my CITO test advise was VMBO TL/HAVO combination class. So, I went to such a combination 'brugklas' for my first year at a 'regular' school again. Soon, it appeared that I was top scoring in class and the 2nd year I got into a HAVO class. Appearently, that was too easy as well, so when I finished my third year at the HAVO class, I arranged to be placed into a VWO class in the fourth year. I finished high school without failing any subjects, quite easily . I'm currently a 3rd year Biology student at the university of Nijmegen.
So indeed, my story shows that the educational system can be very flexible, in contrast to what the system often seems. You aren't stuck to anything!
I've studied some years at a university, but switched and finished at an HBO.
The difference between the two, from my experience, is the following. At the university, I had to be able to explain the 'why' behind a theory or formula, before applying it. At the HBO, I could mostly just pick a theory, learned by heart or looked up in a book, and apply it, without having to explain why it was true.
a small correction.
At MBO you'd study to be a nurse.
At HBO you'd study to be a nurse in a more senior or technical role. more specialised and higher paid.
AT WO/university you'd study, after studying nursing at the HBO level, to become a nurse practitioner. Or you'd study to be a doctor (for example) straight after VWO.
As far as i'm aware there are no nursing studies at universities, only specialisations for those who are already nurses.
Onderwijs is broad word for education while opleiding is more like training or like educational training/ training to be something or behave in a specific way
To make it even more confusion for foreigners, especially for anglosaxons: The HBO's in Dutch are called "Hogeschool", which in English literally translates to "High School" ;)
yeah but you get a bachelor for uni :) I am on Hogeschool Rotterdam they also call it the Rotterdam university of applies sciences love the confusion.. as we have kindergarden in our elementary school (kleuterklas)
And most high schools are called college haha
To make it even more confusing: VWO actually consists of two different subtypes: gymnasium (where they teach Latin and Greek) and atheneum (where they don’t). And there are high schools which offer all different types of education, from VMBO to gymnasium and where the first year (“brugklas”) is the same for everyone, as well as schools that only offer one specific type.
I started on vmbo then mbo level 2 and level 4 and now i am starting on my hbo next september. It was a long road but i am almost done
Good basic explanation of the Dutch school system Jovie!
In addition, the way of getting an education in the Netherlands is, that a one can also move diagonally through the system; at any stage a student can move say, from VMBO to HAVO to HBO to WO etc. Not every young person develops at the same rate or blossoms at the same time, so the system has made accommodation for that. One is never "stuck" on a particular level.
Btw. By giving non-Dutch parents the opportunity to put their toddler in 'Peuter' classes is to create the opportunity for children to learn the language when the brain is not yet fully developed; when they speak another language at home and Dutch 'like-a-native' outside the home they will be able to become fluent in both languages without any tears so-to-say.
I changed from 2nd year VMBO-TL or MAVO to 3rd year HAVO. And I kinda struggled because there's a bit of a gap. But luckily I did well with the help of my teachers ❤️
Opleiding = vakgericht onderwijs. Schooling or training aimed at a specific type of work, generally used for adult (further) education.
Onderwijs = education.
Scholing = schooling 🙂
Onderwijs is the education system, opleiding is a education type. So a teacher has a job in onderwijs, but a student does a opleiding French, for instance.
Hi Jovie,
Pancake Chef from Chicago here! I have so much to say about this subject, don't know if I can get it all in, let's just have a go at it. The difference between onderwijs and opleiding has been well explained in comments below, so go with them.
I'll make a very personal comment to you and that is that NOW, as your kids will enter the education system, NOW is when you want to be grateful that you ever moved to The Netherlands! As person who has lived in four countries and over 15 US states I opine that Holland has among the very best education of countries in the world. This does not reflect in statistics, Holland is not nearly recognized enough for its education (it is a small country) but just look how well Dutch countries do in world competition in areas of business where general or specific professional education is of a benefit, those statistics speak volumes.
I have a pain and it comes from my love for the US, how, as the supposedly most powerful nation, dismal the US's education is compared to a nation like Holland. In the US's best days of general education (early 70's) an American kid was two years behind in learning, compared to Holland, at age 15. Since then, the US has gotten worse and Holland has gotten better. Today many Dutch kids in elementary school in Holland are already better educated than many American College GRADUATES. That is a thoroughly ridiculous sounding statement, yet, it is true. My own experience is an old one, I finished my education in Holland in 1980 and came back to the US in 1984. I have studied the progress of Dutch education a bit to keep updated. Some of my terms are old ones and there have been numerous improvements in Dutch education since I left.
The Dutch system of aptitude assessment and making directional choices by 8th grade failed me but yet I advocate this system and the way the Dutch execute it never the less for many reasons. Also it is done in similar fashion in other modern countries as well. For example, in Germany it is broadly similar. In my case, I was a highly creative, rebellious kid with a bit of an ADD personality. These are traits that can produce excellent results in elementary school but can fail a student in a more structured high school setting. I understand that in Holland there are now procedures to better identify such kids and to deal with them. The reports amazed me.
After elementary school, I was deemed as highly intelligent and went to "gymnasium", not the place with basketball hoops and sneakers but the highest form of what you now call "VWO", I failed at everything, particularly the high pace and required Latin language courses and before the first school year ended was transferred (reduced) to a HAVO school, now part of the HAVO category. At that time there was also a MAVO and even a LAVO, they all mean a lower, middle and higher general subjects "high school." I failed it before its 5 year completion (I only failed two things, grades and behavior, everything else was peachy :-)). I then became a cook and enter the SVH culinary education, would be now part of the MBO, basically a trade school. But to American readers, a trade school that still included academic subjects...and of better quality than most US Universities.
Jovie, be aware. While this system of early aptitude choices is considered to be a superior education structure it includes significant cultural status weight on a student. If a kid goes to a VMBO after 8th grade (because the boy likes to work with his hands, wink, wink!) it basically places a huge sticker on his fore head that says: "I'm going to school to become a life long blue collar, low wage earner." A bit exaggerated, but there's truth in it. I am weary of your (it's not yours) explanation of ways to clime the education ladder. I would NOT recommend a student switching after two years from HAVO to VWO. The pace at VWO is far higher and the kid is going to be way behind entering the VWO, he/she imo, will not catch up. Can some one with a VMBO end up successful? Of course, my very best Dutch friend in Maassluis barely finished de LTS (now VBMO) and he now owns an international corporation and has an incredible high income by any standard.
Lastly, to inform Dutch and US readers we should for now not use the term "University", but use terms like "higher education" or "post high school" education. In the US the name University is slapped onto any building where the girls have developed breast, that is not done in The Netherlands (I am thinking comparatively). A second rate "beauty course or school" may barely be classified as "trade school" in Holland, where as, in the US, it may proudly claim to be a College or even University. So, I rate the value of a Dutch University differently than that from a US University. It depends on which one, because we know that the US does have a few excellent Universities left from old times (filled with Asian students!!)
A big dream of mine (more than a dream, it will be reality) once I retire is to start a culinary education here in the US that mimics, is modeled after my education in Holland. I have shared this vision or copy with many peer American Chefs and it has been enthusiastically received. Several Chefs have stated that they would like to help and be part of it.
Jovie, my daughter finished her University last year and works and plans her whole career, as a teacher. It means that in her first year as a teacher she sat at home most of the time (COVID) but now she is, full schedule, in person at school teaching.
The best of luck to your kidos school days.
My uncle went from vmbo to hbo to wo and is a architect now it's a really long way to go but still a possibility
An architect
Van het vmbo naar het hbo? Dan heet ie toch eerst een havo of een mbo gedaan?
@@LisaLisa-gj2te ja ik dacht al
The flexibility is important to note. You can take different routes to get to a higher level. By performance during the education. Or graduating en then proceed to the next lvl. For instance from VMBO to HAVO to HBO. Or, VMBO - MBO - HBO. A friend of mine went from VWO to WO. But he was young and lacked disipline and he had to drop out. He went to HBO, gratuated and then went back to WO now succeeding due to maturing. Thats what really makes it a good system of education.
Onderwijs is more general/education opleiding is more like a certain education; the direction of your onderwijs/education
Great video! Thought it would be fun to mention, although vmbo'ers, havo'ers and vwo'ers like to make jokes at eachothers expense, i really dont think people look down on other levels. I went from vwo to havo and never felt lesser for it, its just something that happens
Truth is you require every level of education to keep the country running, can't have everyone in the top positions across the whole country 🤡
People seem to use a lot of words here trying to explain the meaning of opleiding. It's simply a specific study. An opleiding can be something in economics, learning to become a doctor in medical school or a carpenter, journalist, chemist, lawyer etc. It's a spexfic curriculum and in that sense it's a subset of education.
I like the emphasis on the desirability of diverse paths and levels. The focus on Univ degrees in some places can make life nightmarish for those with a more "trade" or "vocational" interest.
super thank you, it was very clear the explanation. Thinking about moving to Netherlands from Aruba.
The final advice for the highschool isn’t based on the test/exam only.. most kids do score matching to how they do their schoolwork, so it won’t change anything.
So yeah, kids do the test/exam but IF it happens that the score of that test is really off from what teachers have noticed about the kid’s ability they will take that with it and make sure he/she will get at the best highschool for that kid.
Opleiding is more when you do a certain degree or education, you'd say 'ik heb een MSc in xyz' under 'opleiding' on your CV. Onderwijs is more the whole sector of educating People. So if somebody works in education they work in 'het onderwijs'
The difference will probably that onderwijs is generally used for general type of education and opleiding is more often used when someone is learning for a specific job or specialty and it is also used for small special training as an extra for the current job.
You tubes favorite aunt. Jovie you never fail to deliver an amazing lesson in life. Gold standard young lady. Thanks for sharing your story with us that watch your electrifying channel. Outstanding job. Say hi to Daan, please.
You are so sweet, thank you!
Thank you.
I would say onderwijs is the general term , a opleiding is more specific/narrow. It could be a course on a specific subject, VMBO/HAVO/VWO/HBO/University, etc. are also opleidingen.
onderwijs is more general, and opleiding would be more focust or directed. like onderwijs you get aducated in general as elemtry or highschool. and opleiding more focust like you go to truckdriving school, software developer school or nurse school.
"Een opleiding" is something specific. It's like a package of things. You can for example go and study Math. That math 'opleiding' has specific classes in it that you need to do.
"Onderwijs" is more generic. Basically everything you're being taught at school is 'onderwijs'.
In our system, we also have 'praktijkonderwijs' as a part of the secondary education system :) This is usually used for students who have really majoy learning disabillities or other issues causing them not to be able to do vmbo basis (lwoo).
Might be easier to describe hbo as doing your bachelor and university as your masters-phd etc.
Studying law or theology is an example of following an opleiding. It is a part of your onderwijs, which also includes primary and secondary school.
Opleiding is training for certain jobs. Onderwijs is the general term for education
You can also move to HAVO from VMBO after graduating and eventually move to VWO after graduating from HAVO if you want.
I would say ‘onderwijs’ means ‘general education’, like elementary school, high school and college/university. ‘Opleiding’ is typically used when you are learning a profession, skill or some specific knowledge. E.g., you take an ‘opleiding’ to become a nurse, a doctor (post-university), an attorney (also post-university), taking driving lessons, or to become some certified professional.
Another take on the onderwijs/opleiding subject: Onderwijs is an unquantified amount of education (like water or milk). Opleiding a specific education to an occupation. (glass of water/glass of milk)
We're here in Indonesia also using Dutch school System since the beginning up til' University and it took 1-2years more to finish compared to British educational system..
And for vmbo (same rules for the others) in the year before your exam (3rd year in this case), at the 3rd and 4th/last semester you get SE's (school examen/school exams) which is around 20% of your final exams.
In the end of basisschool the biggest inpact on your choice to which type of high school you go is your teacher not the exam. Also you only get the national exams on the end of the last year of high school.
Thank you Jovie this was super super helpful!
You're so welcome!
SUCH A GREAT IDEA. PERIOD.
You 'splained it well actually. Not being Dutch I would think that opleiding would have more to do with training/schooling/teaching (ik ben in opleiding) whereas onderwijs would have to do more with education in general (ik volg een opleiding in onderwijs). You sound a bit under the weather Jovie. Hope you'll be feeling better soon.🌹
After VMBO you can go to MBO, but can also do the last two years of HAVO.
After HAVO you can go to HBO, but can also do the last two years of VWO.
This means that if you follow VMBO, HAVO, VWO you get the same result as someone who goes to VWO directly but it takes two years extra. So those who really want to, but had 'a slow start' can achieve the same.
Furthermore a completed MBO study gives you access to HBO. And a completed HBO study gives access to University.
This route takes longer, and many make the choice to go to a higher level after being a professional for one or more years.
So kids do not face the final judgement at the age of twelve!
Many employers stimulate their workers to make the step to a higher level by facilitating part-time study, so someone with MBO can go to HBO, or someone with HBO can study on University level.
The age difference on University level can be very big, a 18 yo VWO student can enter University and be in the same year as a 45 yo.
To make IT more complicated You have also 4 kinds of levels vmbo and mbo (1,2,3 and 4). And there are also HBO masters for after the HBO bachelor. It gives the same international titel as a wo master
Many schools actually offer something called a 'dakpanklas' in the first year of highschool: so a mixed vmbo/havo or a mixed havo/vmbo class and they decide at the end of the year which track fits best. I performed really badly at the final test at the basisschool and I got a really low score, I was lucky to be able to go a vmbo/havo group, based on the teachers advice. And went to havo the year after. After graduating I did my bachelors at HBO. Now I'm doing my masters at WO, I had to do a one year program at a WO bachelor for this. I think the more practical thinking you learn at HBO (my program was focussed on climate change, so: what needs to change in the city for it to be more sustainable and more imporantly: how to do this) versus the more abstract academic way of thinking about topics is really valuable and I guess also quite wanted in the labor market. I wouldn't even say it is that more difficult, it just has a different focus/ approach/way of thinking and that needs to fit your individual strenghts. For instance, the students at the hbo were way more advanced in group work, presenting, etc. They are in my experience more active on e.g. Linkedin to work on their carreers. Maybe because internships are usually part of a HBO program and not at a WO program. Whereas the students at the wo level are better at processing large amounts of information and academic critical thought. But this might be different in different fields of course!
pretty good explanation. many jobs can be done at different levels, eg there are mbo nurses, hbo nurses and a few nurses with university level, but they would have a nursing master, while hbo is a nursing bachelor more or less. This would impact the type of job you could get in a hospital and in health care , and the amount of responsibility and autonomy you would be given in your job. but if you have mbo and you feel limited by this, it is totally possible to go on and do hbo after your mbo, would usually cost you one or two years extra but many people do this.
Quite the same in Germany. Haupt-/Realschule, Gymnasium.
Onderwijs is general, like tuition. Can be basic like elementary school, or high-level like a university, but it's allround or covering a lot of subjects.
Opleiding is a course, a jobtraining, or an education for a certain profession/industry.
So 'monteur niveau 2' = opleiding.
And 'middelbare school' = onderwijs.
There are so many possibilities. Adults(21+) can even go to HBO without a HAVO diploma. You have to do an exam(toelatingsexamen) and often a summer course. These summer courses are often aimed at Dutch spelling and English reading.
I went to pre-school as a baby, quite common in my town not sure about other towns though
Hi there,
"Opleiding" is what you learn at school (usually for a special proffesion) (education in english i think) and "onderwijs" is what you get from the teacher who learns you the "opleiding" (schooling in english i think).
Also for VWO some schools offer TTO (twee talig onderwijs) in Dutch and English.
Onderwijs is more general like preschool and highschool and opleiding is training to specifically become something like college. or in the question wat is je opleiding?(what is your education?) They can also mean vmbo, mbo , hbo, enz. (the level) (That’s how I would describe it)
Onderwijs is the generic term and has mostly to do with mandatory education until you are 18. Opleiding is specific and can be a 4 year route but also a course of several months. Furthermore it is possible to follow a higher education after a lower one. So you can do vmbo and then the 2 last years of havo for your havo diploma. Same goes for mbo hbo and university. The higher and longer the education the more chance for a higher income.
I like the system with formal testing even at the basisschool. I know a lot of people were against it because kids can panic and thus make the test badly. In that case, it is still just an advice and your teacher and parents can go against that advice. For me the opposite happened. I had a teacher in my last year of basisschool who did NOT like me. She said I should go to VMBO, even though my test said I could do VWO. At that time the advice of the teacher was weighted higher than the test so my options became limited. Thankfully, my parents fought for me and managed to get me to HAVO. Unfortunately the school I ended up going to was not conductive for my education so I switched to a different school after my first year and was still stuck at HAVO. I was so bored. When it became time to choose which courses you want to continue with I begged my teachers to allow me to switch to VWO. It had never been done before halfway through the system like this. Normally it happens after the first year or after you graduate HAVO, not halfway through like I was asking. Thankfully all my teachers agreed that I would thrive in VWO and a lot of my problems with being bullied would also be reduced if not eliminated.
Anyways, to make a long story short, the flexibility in the system that there is now allows for growth of the students. Like you said, each kid kind of finds his/her own path which is wonderful. Though you do have to be lucky with the teachers guiding you along that path.
Jovie in Afrikaans there is also the words onderwys and opleiding The word for school is skool Blessings and positive energy 😇🙏⚡🎉🎊🏫
Onderwijs is "education in general". Opleiding *usually* refers to either one's combined "years of edutcation", or, a more practical approach, for example, to be educated for a specific profession. "Opleiding voor een timmerman", for example. Greetz from Fort Wayne!
Nursing is done for 3 years at MBO, 4 years at HBO. Nursing science at university but you are not a nurse then and also not allowed to work as a nurse or call your self a nurse. After the basic nursing course you can specialize, bv IC, CHILDERN, maturnity, oncology, dialyse etc. But it is different for different jobs. Psychology can be done at HBO AND university level. Teacher the same.
I would say you can onderwijs is the institue where you can get educated. higher education is also called hoger-onderwijs for example. opleiding is more personal. It is a specific combination of subjects, usually targeted for a (somewhat) specific end. for example a job, like welder, or a bit more generic, like IT-specialist.
in my case I first did HAVO (onderwijs), then I proceeded to get hoger onderwijs, the opleiding Game Design & Development
Onderwijs is a general word. Opleiding is specific
There are places where you can only register for schools close to you (Nijmegen for example).
Onderwijs (education) consists of courses (opleidingen).
You have to do 2 extra years of high school if you want to go from a lower level to the next. You basically double your last year in the next level. The better route to take is through higher education. Do the MBO first, and then enter the HBO. Do the HBO first and then enter university. The four year HBO study gives you a Bachelor's degree, so you can immediately apply to a Master's degree on university after that. The difference between the two routes is that the havo-hbo route takes 5 years of high school and then 4 years of hbo, whereas the vwo-university route take 6 years of high school and 3 years of university. So in both cases you would be a bachelor after 9 years. In practice it's quite hard for most students to get to that next level after passing the current one. Especially the vmbo/mavo to havo step is huge. It used to be more accessible.
Thanks Jovie I am going to secondary school in Netherlands in the summer and i didn't understand the education system. love from the UK.
The way I understand UK secondary school, is that there's A and O levels for the different subjects. You may need 3 A levels to be admitted to a research university. The Dutch system would be that you need VWO where all subjects are A level. You do have the choice to go into HBO after VWO. The B is for "professional" and you are taught a profession. The diploma is Bachelor, but of the applied/vocational type. In research university your diploma is also Bachelor, but of the academic variant. One teaches, say, two solutions to a problem, the other how to research problems in a methodical way.
In Amsterdam there's an international secondary school with British diploma. But, that's very expensive (think a modest annual salary). And, if you want to a Dutch university, with VWO you will not have admission issues (if you chose the right track of subjects).
@@jpdj2715 what a about GCSE qualifications
@@lofilegends9776 at the end of dutch secondary school you will have a CE, central exams, which are similar to GCSE, but grades run from 1 - 10, with 5.5 score being a pass
Just to add onto the gcse comment, the central exam 'only' counts as 50% of your grade. The rest is made up off other tests/assignments you've done throughout the year
I hope your transition to the Netherlands will go smoothly!
I'd use onderwijs to describe my whole time in all the different schools but opleiding to describe what I trained for as a professional (so in my case my WO education).
swapping between havo/vwo is easier than from vmbo to havo (that takes 2 more years of study) HBO is the same level of university in the us. Oh and you can take the 21+ test without a graduation to get in a hbo course.
Very interesting! Thanks
Glad you liked it!
The HBO is best explained as a more practical form of higher education leading to a Bachelor’s degree after 4 years, where WO (university) leads to a Master’s degree (4 or 5 years, including a Bachelor’s degree after 3 years). An HBO bachelor is entitled to enroll into a Master track at a university together with the university-educated Bachelors.
What you forgot to mention was the connection between MBO >HBO > University. That's also a possibility to go. The so called 'laat bloeiers' (the late developers ) who can get via that course a higher education.
So interesting!
You can _have_ an "opleiding" as in you've finished the education (usually for a diploma), or follow an "opleiding" as in being in the process of getting the diploma.
I guess a course, a study or a degree would be the equivalent other English words for education.
While "onderwijs" is the general word for giving or getting education. It doesn't point to a study, but to the act of learning/educating.
Education system would translate to onderwijssysteem, as it's the system that handles the act of learning (it would still do that, even if there were no distinct studies).
The translation of hbo is practically university of applied sciences
Great video. There are many reasons why the Netherlands might be the best country in the world for children and adolescents---why, by almost all meaningful measures, Dutch children are happier, safer, and better educated than their US counterparts. Of course, Dutch universities are first rate across the board. If you look at all the major university ratings, Leiden, U. of Amsterdam, Utrecht, and Groningen are almost always ranked in the top 100 universities in the world. And other more specialized institutions like Wageningen and Delft are rated very highly for their area of focus (agriculture, biosciences, environmental sciences for Wageningen.) The Netherlands has just under 17 million people, and higher education is generously funded, and students generously supported, across the board. I think this corroborates what you say about other levels of education in the NL.
"Opleiding" stresses the curriculum or skills where "onderwijs" references the teaching. The difference is a bit like watching/seeing or listening/hearing. Similarly you could say that an "opleiding" is the result of "onderwijs".
Exactly this. I made a comment similar this. I deleted that as you worded it better.
@@brantregare - and I did not even mention that "onderwijs" always makes me think "bovendom"
@@jpdj2715 ROFL.
I liked the way you explained this. I got the HAVO advice but my mom was like nope, I don't want to be a police officer at home to make you do your homework. (I had no trouble at school itself but homework was an issue for me) So I did VMBO for 4 years and did HAVO after that for 2 years (you can continue on a higher level after graduating the previous level if your grades are good enough and your teachers agree that you are capable) So even though it took me an extra year to get my HAVO diploma, I was much happier and way less stressed than I probably would have been if I did HAVO from the get go.
There actually 3 levels within vmbo: vmbo tl which is the highest and probably the average level. Vmbo KB is one beneath that and beneath that you have vmbo BB. Beneath that you also have practical education. When you graduate from vmbo tl 4 you can go to havo 4 and when you graduate from havo 5 you can go onto vwo 5. With a first year diploma from hbo you can also go to a WO. So there’s a lot of movement between those levels
I started school in Rotterdam. Kindergarten through 2nd grade.
Being very short and simple (it will not go for all studies) for HBO or WO --> HBO will get you Bachelor degree, WO (university) will get you master
No, there are HBO Masters as well (though full HBO masters are rare). Also in general WO will give you a bachelor after 3 years ( depending on the specific study) and only a master if you do the additional 1-2 years (there are exceptions like medical schools).
Onderwijs = education. Opleiding = an educational program with a specific goal in mind. For example, studying to be a beautician at a vocational school or a Computer science major at a university.
I mostly use the word "onderwijs" when I speak of education as a whole. I mostly speak of "opleiding" when it comes to the specialized training towards the profession you are being trained for. So that would mean that if you wanna be a surgeon, that the first schools you get through, like basisschool and the first general schools after that are all onderwijs, when you finally get to the school where you basically only learn the stuff you need to know in order to be a qualified surgeon I'd say you began your "opleiding". That is still part of "onderwijs", but the more specific part of it. I really don't know if that difference I make is official, but it's how I and most people I know use the terms.
I can confirm the switch between the schools like Jovie mentions. I've seen this happening several times back when I was a teen, when I was in MAVO (the predecessor of VMBO) that I saw some classmates come into my class half-year as HAVO appeared to be an overestimation of their abilities. Some of them were having a hard time, as it's really good for your self-confidence when this happens to you. Of course, it's the task of teachers (and also of parents(!!!!)) to make them know that this does not mean you're stupid or anything.
To answer your first question, I 'll ask you a similar question: "what's the difference between education and schooling?" :)
Or maybe instruction and teaching? :-)
I would say "onderwijs" is education and "opleiding" is education for a specific profession, so you have already chosen a direction which is mostly later on, after the "middelbare school". It is not true that you can sent your child to every preschool. A lot of schools work with a "postcode beleid" which means that you have to live in a specific zip code to go to school there. Officially they are not allowed to refuse a child but they will find some silly reason to. There is a hudge difference between VMBO/HAVO/VWO because there is a difference in the type of education but also the level. The tests your kid takes in groep 7 and 8 in combination with the advise from the teacher, will determine where your kid can go. VMBO had different levels, from kader to theoretic. The level of education is different. You can upgrade of downgrade in the beginning but also at the end. If you finish you HAVO with a diploma, your child can go to the VWO and take the last 2 years and get that diploma. In the second last year of your high school you chose a package with school subjects. So you do not graduate in all subjects. Your package is mostly guided by the direction you want to go after high school.
Opleiding refers to the education of one person. Like, I received my education at Leiden university. Onderwijs is the general concept of teaching. Like, I think education is important for everyone. It's similar to the difference between for instance health care and a medical treatment. One is the the general concept, the other is one instance of that concept. Dutch makes this distinction for education, whereas in English you often use the same term.
Onderwijs :
- Required by law (min. 10 years)
- Teachers are trained with government sponsoring and oversight
- Mostly paid for with government funding
Opleiding :
- Any kind of education you get/take after you pass highschool (typically at the age of 16)
- Does not require to be affiliated with the government
- Costs are your own
Those are the most general differences i can think of.
There are quite a few more options in the whole educational system here. Students who do vmbo do generally go to mbo, but after mbo they can also go to hbo (and maybe even university after that, depending on their chosen career). I teach at an mbo school myself (for accounting and management assistants - office jobs, pretty much), and while most of our students end up working a job after their mbo, we do have a few who instead opt to go to hbo to get a degree in, for instance, accounting or economics.
You also left out mavo in your overview. Vmbo was created 20 years ago, and was basically a hybrid of vbo (voorbereidend beroepsonderwijs - formerly lbo, lager beroepsonderwijs) and mavo. Ever since then, there's been some backlash, and certain schools have started offering the mavo track again. The main difference between vmbo and mavo is in its intended purpose: mavo is a more general type of school (often leading straight into havo), whereas vmbo is geared towards certain professions (mostly leading straight into mbo).
It's a complicated system, and one you can easily get lost in, but at least there is no lack of options.
Aren't the final exams of elementary and highschool just in the last year? Or are you counting calendar years instead of school years?
Education = onderwijs
Thats just the umbrella nomer for the act of school learning in any way shap or form
Opleiding = higher education study
Usually its refferring to the education that helps you get a degree.
😊
Easy way to understand mbo havo wo
Mbo: more practical thinking and learning the skills for your preferred job direction.
Lots of small classes, good directions and mostly practical assignments to learn your skill.
Hbo: bachelor degree. So practical plus reflectieve/ explanitory schooling. Still lots of classes, some practical assignments and lots of a reflective papers on your own thoughprocess, factual explaining what you do and why. Reasoning pros and cons etc.
Wo: master degree, phd etc. Lots of research, books, lectures, less one on one teacher time. It is really studying. Papers due, assignments with layers etc so this really makes you as the student reaponsible for getting all your information from your school.
Hi Jovie
You explained it very well. What I love about the dutch education system, you can start at a 'lower' level and then work your way up. That's what I did, I started at VMBO > MBO > HBO it only takes a little bit longer, but if you want anything is possible. Love your video's, groetjes Cerissa.
Thanks so much!
MBO would equal to more practical, hands-on jobs. So work at a elderly care facility, or become a graphic designer. HBO is a mix between practical and theoretical education. So you would work as an (creative) art director or in an hospital, as a nurse.
WO is more a theoretical education, mostly similar to an American university, I guess.
Some common uses of onderwijs and opleiding, hope this helps:
Het basisonderwijs
Het middelbaar onderwijs
Het middelbaar beroepsonderwijs
Het universitair onderwijs
(All refering to education in general in fases of life or of general levels)
Het onderwijs op ... (a specific school/institute) is goed/slecht
Het onderwijs van ... (a specific teacher) is goed/slecht
Ik volg/doe een opleiding tot ..... (a specific profession)
Een universitaire opleiding
Een leuke opleiding
Een moeilijke opleiding
An opleiding is a collection of courses or classes with usually a specific degree/diploma/certificate as goal.
You can ask somebody wat is je opleiding but never wat is je onderwijs. Opleiding is what kind of school like havo,vwo etc, onderwijs is general education
You did not grasp the concept of the three levels of education:
VMBO-MBO --> applied hands-on education --> practical execution
HAVO-HBO --> applied theoretical education --> translate theory to practice
VWO-WO --> abstract theoretical education --> create new theory
Im now in first year of highschool(havo/vwo) and i well got havo/vwo so my grades were really godo and now in my second year i can go to vwo!
"Opleiding" is focussed on a particular person of traject. "Onderwijs" is focussed on systems and organizations.
Notice furthermore the differences in "geslacht". "Opleiding" is "manlijk": You could say: "de/een opleiding" or "twee opleidingen". "Onderwijs" is "onzijdig". You can only say: "het onderwijs"; and not for example "twee onderwijzen": indicating the higher state of the meaning of "onderwijs".
Hi Jovie, coming from an old student of the VMBO you miss that this school is divided into 3 levels T, T/P and P, T= Theoretical and the P= practical. I also would have like to see where the Gymnasium fits into the school levels, I didn’t grew up in NL so i am always confuse when people say that school level, great video btw👍
Gymnasium = VWO + Latin and Greek
Great video! Are you having a cold? Best wishes.
I was not feeling great when I recorded this! 😂 Thanks for the well wishes.
Do you have a cold? regards from the grammar nazi
The different types of highschools arent only different in how long you go there, it is mainly the different like.. niveaus or levels of education. So vmbo is less hard than havo and vwo is even harder.
I think "challenging" would be a more appropriate way of calling it.
@@Olsulor11 hm yeah probably
VMBO is even more complex within VMBO you have VMBO-bb, VMBO-kb, VMBO-gl and VMBO-tl
Bb stands for basisberoeps and is the lowest level and is the most practical
KB or kaderberoeps is the second lowest level and is also more practical
GL or gemengde leerweg is nog given much and is a mix of practical and theoretical lessons
And last TL stands for theoretische leerweg and is the highest of the VMBO levels with only theoretical lessons
In another video of yours I heard a pronounciation error. Transportatie is said like transportatsie, the last t becomes an ts when u say it. Much love!! xxx