Hey Jon, I love the fact that you chose to stagger the foam core up against the bulwarks, and the choice to go with the Koosa board under the center section for strength. I'm glad to see that you chose to go with the H100, I think that is the best solution from both the cost and strength perspectives -- not to mention the hydrophobic qualities! Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the mention! I have chosen the same core material for replacement in my Colin Archer Cruiser, nice to see how you do it and why you chose it.
Also if you have squeeze room, after you put the foam in you can use a fairing batten wrapped in packing tape to push down on the flexible stubb of the top glass layer. The packing tape prevents epoxy sticking so you can leave it in place till the epoxy cures and then lift it straight off. The packing tape trick is great for blocks battens molds etc. Experiment with the tapes you have available. In Australia we have a thin brown tape mainly used for packing boxes and epoxy won't stick to it. Test your locally available tapes with some left over resin it's a great resource to prevent clamps packers battens etc from sticking. A really great fairing batten is 20mm x 20mm square hollow section aluminium bar with sharp edges. They throw a really fair curve. Another great benefit to the aluminium batten is you hold it against a bogeed surface in a fair curve and rub it back and forth and the oxidised aluminium leaves black marks on your high spots. Can also be used for a mold if wrapped in packing tape. If you want to bog a fair curve just load the bar with bog and push it down onto the surface the way you would lay a brick with mortar, clamp ends. Clean away the squeeze out along the edges and let your epoxy cure. Once cured lift the fairing batten off and you have a beautiful fair curve. I use left over bog for this when doing other jobs. If you place the fairing lines just under a trowel width apart you can then use the lines to guide you when applying fairing compound. Great trick for curved decks. Cheers
When you say “bog” I’m imagining just a large amount of thickened epoxy filler. Correct? The idea to make periodic fairing lines makes sense. Great tip. Thanks. 🙏 👍🙌
@@livingforsail yes that's right sorry for the Aussie slang. Thickened epoxy is bog down under. You almost fill the void with bog and then use foam pieces pushed in to that and squeeze most of the bog out. This prevents those voids to a large extent. It's very messy and you have to push in slowly to not trap air. If you get 80 percent foam and twenty percent bog in the void that's a good ratio. Undersized foam allows squeeze out to exit the void easier. Very messy. I almost fill the void then push the bottom piece in. This forces bog higher into void and completely covers the foam squeezing out over the top of it. Effectively you are fiiling it from the inside out with the squeeze out so very little air if any trapped. Then push the top piece in. You are effectively pushing the bog from the inside out with the foam if that makes sense. Use a zip lock bag with the corner cut out to load the bog into the void along the lower surface. When you push the lower piece into the bog slowly it will form a natural wave of bug behind it and as you push it in this wave will be forced up and back out. As air rises above it the air will squeeze out first. When you perfect the process you will get virtually zero voids. Too much bog or too stiff aka peanut butter you are more likely to trap air. Too runny aka mayonnaise and again it will run out of the void under gravity and create voids. Obviously you clean up as you go like a bricklayer and reuse the bog. It will thicken as it is reused and adding a little resin as you go is cool. Cheers
Great video! The illustrations do a good job communicating the work being done. I am looking forward to seeing your vacuum bagging equipment and technique! I will be going down the same re-coring road soon on a 69 Kenner Privateer 26 ketch. I was planning on using balsa core (sheer strength, cost, and availability) but after watching your last two episodes I am giving serious consideration to using Divinycell. One thought I had was if balsa core can be run through a planer as easily as the h100. I didn’t really consider that until this video.
Thanks Jim! I appreciate the feedback. Balsa is a great choice. Some have said it is easier to use because it adheres well without vacuum and that’s an interesting point to consider. I don’t think that you will be happy with the results if you try to thickness plane it but I’ve never tried. I think it would get chewed up pretty badly but defer to someone with more experience. 👍
thanks for the series im loving it. Do you have cost estimates for each project, like the decks, if you do, could you share them so I can get an idea? thanks a lot!
Thank you! 🙏 I’m glad that you’re enjoying the series. I have some rough estimates but I think what will be more useful to you and the other people watching is some cost breakdowns after the fact. I’ll plan on that. Cheers! 🙌👍
I am curious why you have decided to save the thin layer of glass over the top of the core material. Wouldn't it be easier and stronger to cut that back to the hull and then lay a new layer of tabbing over the new foam?
Do you mean the tapered ~2" of glass along the perimeter? That is left on as a scarfed joint for the progressively larger glass sections to tab onto. I will probably finish with at least one layer of 1708 that wraps all the way up the bulwark. Is that what you mean?
OK that's interesting. A couple of questions though. I am a designer and boat builder, lived aboard 17 years, sold around 300 plans for my tenders and recently launched our latest design a 26ft powercat in divynicell. I have a 44ft bob oram catamaran and previous to this build I built a 40 ft powercat hull and deck in western red cedar and balsa in west epoxy, "now allergic" to epoxy. I worked with epoxy for twenty one years before becoming allergic. So a little familiar with these products and boat building techniques. A few assumptions firstly, here is where I might go wildly wrong. Firstly your boat produced way back when in a mold is most likely an early formula polyester resin, secondly it would involve chopper gun or chop strand mat in its construction and definitely tie layers of choppy at the very least. OK back to the questions, Firstly given the lack of wood in your new core why epoxy, way harder and slower to work with and exponentially more expensive, at least here in Australia. A good unwaxed vinylester will set you free my friend. Much easier and quicker to work with, mechanical bonding almost on par with epoxy, ( both way tougher than the poly in your boat) and all subsequent bonding is a chemical bond without secondary prep ie peel ply sanding for mechanical bond etc. Use a low styrene emission poly for all finish work using large premade tubs for all your filleting fairing finishing. What I like to call the three f's, don't worry there's a lot more "f's" when you get to fairing. You can premix 20 litre drums of glue/fillet mix and fairing mix as well. Leave your unwaxed laminated surfaces bare until all your secondary bonding is complete, no peel ply required as the surface remains ready for secondary chemical bonding even after months, a quick wipe over with acetone and it goes sticky and away you go, bond straight to it, no more prep. To finish simply trowel on your pre prepared bog formulation and your ready to fair. With epoxy you have long cure times before secondary bonding before you spend time prepping an sanding to bond again. Peel ply amine blush etc. Every single time you fillet glue etc it's out with the powders and stirring sticks and endless wasted time stirring and creating dust. And the whole time your paying way more for the privilege. A great comparison of the core materials but what about resins. For me wood means epoxy, foam means freedom from epoxy and saving money, time and effort. I love your videos, very informative and good production. Also I would have left more room at the edge of your deck with the foam. I usually leave a good few millimetres of gap around the foam not a tight fit. Then push in a sloppy bog mix into the void and use the undersized foam to push squeeze out all around. It's a bit messy but works way better. For the deck I would use perforated infusion foam and infuse it for the ultimate job. I first started infusing more than a decade ago and it's great for this application. Cheers
Lots to talk about here… First, thanks for all of the comments and honest feedback. It’s appreciated. I’m using epoxy because I appreciate the long open time and the superior bond strength to other substrates along with its ability to withstand water. I am fortunate to have SeaHawk sponsoring the project and providing epoxy which makes the cost less of an issue. I appreciate the benefits of VE laminating resins and the ability to “stay open”. Sorry to hear about the allergies. Did you wear PPE all those years? Epoxy doesn’t have an offensive smell per se but I still opt to wear at least my nuisance level mask with it and the full vapor protection for large jobs. The foam that I am using is perforated for infusion. I am mostly planning to use wet layup to install as I fear I’d never get a good enough of a seal to infuse (I understand that you basically need a perfect vacuum…) that would be amazing if I could do that though… Something to think about…
@@livingforsail yep I wore ppe but it doesn't protect you from the fumes 100 percent. Also in boats you quite often work in tight spaces and skin contact through clothes is inevitable. In the tight bows of a catamaran I had to push up into wet laminate as well as use a stick with a roller to repair an area where freshly laminated glass fell down off the cedar in the very point of the bow. The hull was seven feet deep at the bow. We kept going wet on wet to complete the entire hull for several hours. At the end of the job I peeled of the tyvac suit whisc was stuck to me in several places. To my wife's great amusement my underwear was actually stuck to my butt. That was my one and only Brazilian as they call it. My wife still giggles about peeling off my underwear. I always tried to remain free from contact with epoxy and after many years working with it you just get used to not scratching your nose or wiping sweat or an itch. It was great training for covid, didn't touch my face at all when I was out at the supermarket or whatever. Some people use epoxy for a lifetime and virtually bath in the stuff with no ill effect. A boat builder friend of mine rarely even uses gloves and he's nearly seventy with no problems. Allergic reactions to epoxy in my experience are quite low, perhaps 1 to 2% of users I know of. Some within days of first using it and some like me after many years exposure trouble free.
@@magiccarpet3.5 OK. That story had me laughing out loud... haha. Yeah, I have not always been the most careful but I try to prevent exposure whenever I can with all of these chemicals, powders, and materials. Thank you for the heads up.
Awesome work on this your probably done now and off sailing (don’t tell me I’ll keep watching). I’m about to fix the soft deck on my boat I don’t have a vacuum pump and was considering doing it from below as I’m worried about my ability to a good standard have you made a video about the finish of the deck? Also how did you work out the spacings on the relief cuts? Thanks for sharing
Thanks! 🙏 I laughed out loud here because I am nowhere near done! Haha. I have had a couple of distractions this year but am getting back to the deck full time. Working from the bottom would have some advantages and disadvantages. Working overhead with epoxy is not a lot of fun but you’ll get to keep the nice finish of the deck. I will fair mine as best I can and then use kiwi grip or similar which will hide a lot of any remaining imperfections. Good luck with your deck!!
@@livingforsail ha awesome thanks, sorry to here your not floating yet but I’m honestly loving your content I’ve just bought Boat strength on your recommendation and will start working through that. Also what strength of a Vacum pump should I look for the one you recommend is not available in the uk
No worries. Too bad… that Gast pump is a beauty. Look for a simple diagram pump that can pull down to -25” HG. The target is usually in the -20 to -25” range. You don’t want a rotary vane pump… for this application.
I couldn’t make it over there this time. I’d love to get over there when I can. It’s such an incredible project and I admire their spirit to spare no expense!
Yes, the closed cell foam. Annoying how the interior teak craftsmanship is so well done but the deck-to-hull just has filler dumped in. Also. After all deck was sealed 3,000 holes drilled to secure decking? The contradictions in original construction are annoying. Looks like you will have a tidy vessel when done. Thank you for posting.
I know right?! I was stunned to see that joint. The boat has a decent reputation for build quality and the interior is top notch. I have been finding some cut corners here and there but nothing that is insurmountable. Thanks for watching! 👍🙏🙌
Those flapping shirt-tails--you're asking for a BIG disaster--dragging your boady into the tablesaw blade!!! Can your wife3 and chidren finish this project without you??----Mikey, Belfair, Wa
"It's like after 30 years, I have an allowance again." Quote of the year. Love this.
🤣 I’m glad that you enjoyed it. I appreciate you tuning in. 🙏👍🙌
The way you show via drawings and camera work, makes understanding and learning so much easier.
Thanks😊
Thank you! I’m glad to know that you find the video useful! 🙏👍🙌
Hey Jon, I love the fact that you chose to stagger the foam core up against the bulwarks, and the choice to go with the Koosa board under the center section for strength. I'm glad to see that you chose to go with the H100, I think that is the best solution from both the cost and strength perspectives -- not to mention the hydrophobic qualities! Keep up the great work!
Thanks. I think it is going to provide a really sturdy deck! I appreciate the feedback. 🙏👍
G'day John, jolly good show old mate getting stuck in to it, coming along nicely.
Thank you Andrew! Much appreciated! I was getting stuck to it there too for a bit. Literally… epoxy is tenacious stuff!
@livingforsail 👍😄 Yeah, pretty messy stuff , be all worth it , nice work
Thanks for the mention! I have chosen the same core material for replacement in my Colin Archer Cruiser, nice to see how you do it and why you chose it.
I think it’s a good choice Viktor. Excited to see how your project goes. Good luck with the shed build!
I have a foredeck repair/replacement coming up this winter. Very VERY useful video !
Thank you. 🙏. All the best with your restoration. I will have some more deck work coming soon! 👍🙌
Also if you have squeeze room, after you put the foam in you can use a fairing batten wrapped in packing tape to push down on the flexible stubb of the top glass layer. The packing tape prevents epoxy sticking so you can leave it in place till the epoxy cures and then lift it straight off. The packing tape trick is great for blocks battens molds etc. Experiment with the tapes you have available. In Australia we have a thin brown tape mainly used for packing boxes and epoxy won't stick to it. Test your locally available tapes with some left over resin it's a great resource to prevent clamps packers battens etc from sticking. A really great fairing batten is 20mm x 20mm square hollow section aluminium bar with sharp edges. They throw a really fair curve. Another great benefit to the aluminium batten is you hold it against a bogeed surface in a fair curve and rub it back and forth and the oxidised aluminium leaves black marks on your high spots. Can also be used for a mold if wrapped in packing tape. If you want to bog a fair curve just load the bar with bog and push it down onto the surface the way you would lay a brick with mortar, clamp ends. Clean away the squeeze out along the edges and let your epoxy cure. Once cured lift the fairing batten off and you have a beautiful fair curve. I use left over bog for this when doing other jobs. If you place the fairing lines just under a trowel width apart you can then use the lines to guide you when applying fairing compound. Great trick for curved decks. Cheers
When you say “bog” I’m imagining just a large amount of thickened epoxy filler. Correct?
The idea to make periodic fairing lines makes sense. Great tip. Thanks. 🙏 👍🙌
@@livingforsail yes that's right sorry for the Aussie slang. Thickened epoxy is bog down under. You almost fill the void with bog and then use foam pieces pushed in to that and squeeze most of the bog out. This prevents those voids to a large extent. It's very messy and you have to push in slowly to not trap air. If you get 80 percent foam and twenty percent bog in the void that's a good ratio. Undersized foam allows squeeze out to exit the void easier. Very messy. I almost fill the void then push the bottom piece in. This forces bog higher into void and completely covers the foam squeezing out over the top of it. Effectively you are fiiling it from the inside out with the squeeze out so very little air if any trapped. Then push the top piece in. You are effectively pushing the bog from the inside out with the foam if that makes sense. Use a zip lock bag with the corner cut out to load the bog into the void along the lower surface. When you push the lower piece into the bog slowly it will form a natural wave of bug behind it and as you push it in this wave will be forced up and back out. As air rises above it the air will squeeze out first. When you perfect the process you will get virtually zero voids. Too much bog or too stiff aka peanut butter you are more likely to trap air. Too runny aka mayonnaise and again it will run out of the void under gravity and create voids. Obviously you clean up as you go like a bricklayer and reuse the bog. It will thicken as it is reused and adding a little resin as you go is cool. Cheers
@@magiccarpet3.5 That makes sense. Thank you. You've given me some techniques to try!
Well Done! I am impressed with your work thus far. Great video!
Thank you very much 🙏👍🙌
Sweet!
I love the mental machinations and the executions of your repairs/restoration - please keep them coming.
Thank you for your comment and also teaching me a new word today! 🙏👍🙌
So much we enjoyed about this video - not the least, the great music. Well done!
Thanks! I hope you caught the shout out at the end too. 😉
@@livingforsail Yes, we did. That was a fun perspective you brought to it.
I had a good laugh at 'after 30 years I have an allowance again.."
🤣 Somehow after all this rotten core I still have a sense of humor?! Happy to hear I made some people laugh. Thanks for the feedback. 🙏🙌
We appreciated the humour of that comment too. That alone is value for stepping up this month. Ha.
Nice one well done 😊😊
Thank you! 🙏
Nice shirt hoser. 🙂
Just found the chanel. Awesome project and Bob Perry!! I've got a couple of core projects in the spring. Looking forward to following this project.
Great video! The illustrations do a good job communicating the work being done. I am looking forward to seeing your vacuum bagging equipment and technique! I will be going down the same re-coring road soon on a 69 Kenner Privateer 26 ketch. I was planning on using balsa core (sheer strength, cost, and availability) but after watching your last two episodes I am giving serious consideration to using Divinycell. One thought I had was if balsa core can be run through a planer as easily as the h100. I didn’t really consider that until this video.
Thanks Jim! I appreciate the feedback.
Balsa is a great choice. Some have said it is easier to use because it adheres well without vacuum and that’s an interesting point to consider. I don’t think that you will be happy with the results if you try to thickness plane it but I’ve never tried. I think it would get chewed up pretty badly but defer to someone with more experience.
👍
Looking good!
Thank you! Cheers!
thanks for the series im loving it. Do you have cost estimates for each project, like the decks, if you do, could you share them so I can get an idea? thanks a lot!
Thank you! 🙏 I’m glad that you’re enjoying the series. I have some rough estimates but I think what will be more useful to you and the other people watching is some cost breakdowns after the fact. I’ll plan on that. Cheers!
🙌👍
I am curious why you have decided to save the thin layer of glass over the top of the core material. Wouldn't it be easier and stronger to cut that back to the hull and then lay a new layer of tabbing over the new foam?
Do you mean the tapered ~2" of glass along the perimeter? That is left on as a scarfed joint for the progressively larger glass sections to tab onto. I will probably finish with at least one layer of 1708 that wraps all the way up the bulwark. Is that what you mean?
OK that's interesting. A couple of questions though. I am a designer and boat builder, lived aboard 17 years, sold around 300 plans for my tenders and recently launched our latest design a 26ft powercat in divynicell. I have a 44ft bob oram catamaran and previous to this build I built a 40 ft powercat hull and deck in western red cedar and balsa in west epoxy, "now allergic" to epoxy. I worked with epoxy for twenty one years before becoming allergic. So a little familiar with these products and boat building techniques. A few assumptions firstly, here is where I might go wildly wrong. Firstly your boat produced way back when in a mold is most likely an early formula polyester resin, secondly it would involve chopper gun or chop strand mat in its construction and definitely tie layers of choppy at the very least. OK back to the questions, Firstly given the lack of wood in your new core why epoxy, way harder and slower to work with and exponentially more expensive, at least here in Australia. A good unwaxed vinylester will set you free my friend. Much easier and quicker to work with, mechanical bonding almost on par with epoxy, ( both way tougher than the poly in your boat) and all subsequent bonding is a chemical bond without secondary prep ie peel ply sanding for mechanical bond etc. Use a low styrene emission poly for all finish work using large premade tubs for all your filleting fairing finishing. What I like to call the three f's, don't worry there's a lot more "f's" when you get to fairing. You can premix 20 litre drums of glue/fillet mix and fairing mix as well. Leave your unwaxed laminated surfaces bare until all your secondary bonding is complete, no peel ply required as the surface remains ready for secondary chemical bonding even after months, a quick wipe over with acetone and it goes sticky and away you go, bond straight to it, no more prep. To finish simply trowel on your pre prepared bog formulation and your ready to fair. With epoxy you have long cure times before secondary bonding before you spend time prepping an sanding to bond again. Peel ply amine blush etc. Every single time you fillet glue etc it's out with the powders and stirring sticks and endless wasted time stirring and creating dust. And the whole time your paying way more for the privilege. A great comparison of the core materials but what about resins. For me wood means epoxy, foam means freedom from epoxy and saving money, time and effort. I love your videos, very informative and good production. Also I would have left more room at the edge of your deck with the foam. I usually leave a good few millimetres of gap around the foam not a tight fit. Then push in a sloppy bog mix into the void and use the undersized foam to push squeeze out all around. It's a bit messy but works way better. For the deck I would use perforated infusion foam and infuse it for the ultimate job. I first started infusing more than a decade ago and it's great for this application. Cheers
Lots to talk about here…
First, thanks for all of the comments and honest feedback. It’s appreciated.
I’m using epoxy because I appreciate the long open time and the superior bond strength to other substrates along with its ability to withstand water. I am fortunate to have SeaHawk sponsoring the project and providing epoxy which makes the cost less of an issue.
I appreciate the benefits of VE laminating resins and the ability to “stay open”.
Sorry to hear about the allergies. Did you wear PPE all those years? Epoxy doesn’t have an offensive smell per se but I still opt to wear at least my nuisance level mask with it and the full vapor protection for large jobs.
The foam that I am using is perforated for infusion. I am mostly planning to use wet layup to install as I fear I’d never get a good enough of a seal to infuse (I understand that you basically need a perfect vacuum…) that would be amazing if I could do that though…
Something to think about…
@@livingforsail yep I wore ppe but it doesn't protect you from the fumes 100 percent. Also in boats you quite often work in tight spaces and skin contact through clothes is inevitable. In the tight bows of a catamaran I had to push up into wet laminate as well as use a stick with a roller to repair an area where freshly laminated glass fell down off the cedar in the very point of the bow. The hull was seven feet deep at the bow. We kept going wet on wet to complete the entire hull for several hours. At the end of the job I peeled of the tyvac suit whisc was stuck to me in several places. To my wife's great amusement my underwear was actually stuck to my butt. That was my one and only Brazilian as they call it. My wife still giggles about peeling off my underwear. I always tried to remain free from contact with epoxy and after many years working with it you just get used to not scratching your nose or wiping sweat or an itch. It was great training for covid, didn't touch my face at all when I was out at the supermarket or whatever. Some people use epoxy for a lifetime and virtually bath in the stuff with no ill effect. A boat builder friend of mine rarely even uses gloves and he's nearly seventy with no problems. Allergic reactions to epoxy in my experience are quite low, perhaps 1 to 2% of users I know of. Some within days of first using it and some like me after many years exposure trouble free.
@@magiccarpet3.5 OK. That story had me laughing out loud... haha. Yeah, I have not always been the most careful but I try to prevent exposure whenever I can with all of these chemicals, powders, and materials. Thank you for the heads up.
excellent plan!
Thanks Tim. I think it will work out really well. Let's all hope that I can get this vacuum system to work...
Guessing you watch Matt on the Duracell project? Different yet similar 👍
Yes, I love their channel. Antidote had just come into our lives when they started their channel and I’ve been mesmerized by it since. 👍
😊
Good going. Nice !m👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️ comments also help the algorithms. ☺️ Bob in Wales.
Thank you Bob! 🙏
Awesome work on this your probably done now and off sailing (don’t tell me I’ll keep watching). I’m about to fix the soft deck on my boat I don’t have a vacuum pump and was considering doing it from below as I’m worried about my ability to a good standard have you made a video about the finish of the deck? Also how did you work out the spacings on the relief cuts?
Thanks for sharing
Thanks! 🙏 I laughed out loud here because I am nowhere near done! Haha. I have had a couple of distractions this year but am getting back to the deck full time.
Working from the bottom would have some advantages and disadvantages. Working overhead with epoxy is not a lot of fun but you’ll get to keep the nice finish of the deck.
I will fair mine as best I can and then use kiwi grip or similar which will hide a lot of any remaining imperfections.
Good luck with your deck!!
@@livingforsail ha awesome thanks, sorry to here your not floating yet but I’m honestly loving your content I’ve just bought Boat strength on your recommendation and will start working through that. Also what strength of a Vacum pump should I look for the one you recommend is not available in the uk
No worries.
Too bad… that Gast pump is a beauty.
Look for a simple diagram pump that can pull down to -25” HG. The target is usually in the -20 to -25” range.
You don’t want a rotary vane pump… for this application.
@@livingforsail awesome thanks bro
That piece of glass probably acted as a good, but expensive tack cloth.
Haha! Exactly!! 🙌
Did you make over to the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival to see Tally Ho?
I couldn’t make it over there this time. I’d love to get over there when I can. It’s such an incredible project and I admire their spirit to spare no expense!
Yes, the closed cell foam. Annoying how the interior teak craftsmanship is so well done but the deck-to-hull just has filler dumped in. Also. After all deck was sealed 3,000 holes drilled to secure decking? The contradictions in original construction are annoying. Looks like you will have a tidy vessel when done. Thank you for posting.
I know right?! I was stunned to see that joint. The boat has a decent reputation for build quality and the interior is top notch. I have been finding some cut corners here and there but nothing that is insurmountable. Thanks for watching! 👍🙏🙌
Those flapping shirt-tails--you're asking for a BIG disaster--dragging your boady into the tablesaw blade!!! Can your wife3 and chidren finish this project without you??----Mikey, Belfair, Wa
My spandex “work onezee” was in the wash…