@@lewlavabra6811 not all of them are literal, but yeah. there's the actual sa's like when Becky (the in-universe book fan) literally kept harrassing him and went as far as to drug him with a love potion (which is straight up date rape), and that one guy who i won't remember the name cause i erased him from my memory who stole Sam's body (a common occurency on Samland) and used it to have sex (obviously without Sam's consent), and Sam's first ever offender, the ghost from the first episode who tried to physically force Sam to cheat on Jess, which he very much did not wanna do. and then there's the alluded sa's: Sam being force fed things while the people doing it say weirdly suggestive stuff (happened more than once), angel and demon possessions, especifically when it comes to Sam, being a kind of rape allegory that i'm really not sure if the writers intended but is definitely there (Lucifer saying he made Sam his bitch in every way, Meg being a fucking weirdo when she's possessing him, and, most egregious of all, Gadreel and Dean literally coercing Sam into saying yes to being possessed without knowing, and then gaslighting him about it for weeks). you can take these as you will, and you're free to your own interpretation, but the lack of bodily autonomy and agency is a very big part of Sam's character, and it ends up translating into more than one type of violence.
@@acewithoutafaceIn the episode with Becky she said she never got to consumate the marriage, she did violate him but never actually got to have physical relations
Sam has been my favorite since 2005. I get the love for Dean, but it felt like the writers frequently ignored Sam's perspective and pain. I really appreciate the way you articulated these points! I feel so validated! Love the video!
If you felt something for Sam, that's mean Director & Writers have done a great job. What make a Character's powerful is how they continue to haunts us. If a Character became exactly how we wanted them... then it would get boring. I think don't think they turned on Sam. They probably put a Twist on Old Brother & Younger Brother's old tales of how Bigger Brother is always the bad one.... And in this in case, they made the Younger Brother to be a rebellion one which is not exactly a new concept. However, the show itself fallen down hill for since Season 6 after they introduced Angels.
Was it really hundreds of years in hell? Time being slower in hell was never mentioned other than when talking about dean being tortured in hell. I'm guessing Alastair might have slowed time while torturing dean so they could break the first seal sooner. Also wasn't almost the entirety of season 7 about him having ptsd and hallucinating lucifer
@@Zanoladabwhy wouldn’t it be the same for Sam? Yes he was down there for over 100 years that’s why Castiel said his soul was mutilated while Dean’s wasn’t . They could’ve spent more than a season on his ptsd
@@Davidscomix remember when Sam went to hell to rescue Bobby? He had to be in there at least 1 hour tops which would be at few days or weeks in real life. And Dean definitely did not wait that long to save Sam. It has only been few hours irl as well
@AlexOlins-ly1yh i think people just wanted more Sam, and I think he had potential, but Dean was more entertaining and relatable in my opinion to be honest
5:49 In later seasons Dean not caring whether the world was destroyed as long as Sam was alright was treated as a good thing when it was actually selfish.
its a litttle selfish but its mostly just having one of the greatest older brothers ever one who would die for you and sacrifice anything and everthing so that you live
As a big brother myself, I understand that mentality. As much as we butt heads, I'd happily go to jail if someone hurts him. He's just a brother being protective
You explained all my feelings about how Sam was treated throughout the show so perfectly. It absolutely breaks my heart how they treated his character, because he had so much untapped potential to be such an amazing character. Which he still is, but he was never allowed to reach his true potential. I know Dean’s the Fonzie of the show. The guy with the leather jacket, cool car, a ladies man, who loves classic rock and has years worth of daddy’s issues. But I always found Sam’s story way more compelling. He felt like an outcast, like he didn’t belong anywhere and that there was something inherently wrong with him. I see so much of myself in Sam and to see the show punished him over and over again because he wasn’t acting the way Dean (the normal one) wanted him to act, kind of made me feel like I was being punished too for not being what others wanted me to be. It was like the show I love was alienating me for just existing and for my love of Sam. I wish I could just give him the biggest hug and tell him all the wonderful things I thought about him, since the show refuses to give him a break or feel any sort of validation.
How the HELL was Dean written as a "perfect hero"?! Seriously I'm a Dean fan and I have never thought of him as perfect and the writers never treat him as such, in fact in the later season their extremely hard on him, always making him the one suffering the most but making the most mistakes. It's fine if you like Sam and I agree the writers did him dirty but why are you making it sound like Dean had it easy?
@@patrickmcguire7896 I don’t mean to speak for the OP, but imo Dean is the “perfect hero” in comparison to Sam. We’re talking about the narrative intent of the writers. Dean is always right and even when he is wrong the narrative gives context that makes the audience understand his motivations even if we disagree. Dean gets grace. Wheareas Sam is framed as selfish.
bro as someone who has been in the trenches fighting on behalf of sam winchester on every site from twitter to tumblr to facebook for YEARS, it is so so heartening to see a whole comment section of people who agree with the message of this video and care about sam as his own character, and not just dean winchester's brother. thank you for this video! and to all you folks in the comments, you are my people 💜
You also missed the part where the show gave Dean more of a personality than Sam. For start like 70% of the humor in this show was made by something Dean said or something done at his expense Yellowfever for example. But we learned more about Dean's hobbies and interest more than we ever did with Sam. Dena loves Rock & Roll, and cars but is also a western buff, watches hospital dramas, loves movies and cartoons like Scooby Doo, and he got into LARPing real fast. Then there was the fact that more comedic supernatural things happened to Dean. Like him acting like a dog, him getting old, him turning into a kid, him losing his memory, him getting put under a love spell by some witches. Sure there was stuff like that that happened to both brothers but only three to Sam alone, him getting bad luck, him swapping bodies with a teen and him turning into Justin. And the only hobbies I can think Sam had was True Crime obsession which they didn't play with that much. Point is the writers kept adding thing to Dean to make people like him but it felt like they ignored giving Sam some of that attention, but they also gave Dean plenty of grief in the latter season, it's not like he got off Scott free
Sam definitely had more personality. Sure Dean had more humor and connection with side characters but Sam is more nuanced and complex. But yeah they barely touched on it😊
It's almost as Dean really is Micheal the archangel every one loves and and focused on and Sam is Lucifer the fallen arch angel that is hated and and ignored
I look at it differently. Sam is basically an antagonist as well as a protagonist. He very frequently makes bad decisions after being drawn back into hunting. These decisions move the story along and show Sam as an increasingly broken character. He never really recovers throughout the 15 seasons. In the end, though, he's the one that finds something more to life after his brother, you know. Dean, on the other hand, is just a protagonist. He reacts to events, and even if he screws up, it's almost always Sam related. He doesn't break as easily and is resilient even after everything he went through. Eventually, he ends up broken in a slightly different way and is ready for it all to be over. He's fully fleshed out character wise because he's the protagonist, and he has much more living in the moment than Sam. Sam isn't fleshed out as much because for much of the series, he's basically unable to enjoy anything at all. His life he dreamed of having is gone. He is used by demons. His whole world is collapsing 1 new bad event or choice at a time. His side is a downward spiral, and every time, it looks like he has hope events throw him back into that descent. There isn't really a way to flesh him out that wouldn't feel hollow and empty. It's why I think they gave him the happier ending over Dean. Dean was rather content with hunting and eventually death at the hands of some monster. Sam never was he always wanted more and always had to force himself with different reasons to continue being a hunter even when it looks like he's getting used to the life and accepting it.
I just finished the show (for the first time) today and I felt that way the entire time!! I love Dean a ton but I’ve liked Sam more and as I was watching some of those super funny episodes like the one where Dean becomes a dog or a kid again I couldn’t help but think “Man, Dean gets some of the most funny and creative concepts for episodes..” and it made me upset/disappointed 😭 and yeah, Sam gets funny episodes too but the ratio is insane to me. Not only when it comes to comedy but the CREATIVITY of certain episodes. I could make the argument of my love for Mystery Spot while it is super funny as a viewer…. In reality Sam was being traumatized the entire episode having to watch his literal brother die repeatedly :/ I wanted more harmless and funny episodes for him 😞
Wow, thank you for this insightful analysis. I have felt the same way about Sam's characterization. He was the most sympathetic character of the series (I thought), yet he is often villainized by fans while Dean is praised as a sacrificial hero. Sam was abused by so many other characters, including Dean, who sometimes emotionally abused him and was very controlling like their father. While Dean had memories of a normal childhood and of their mother, Sam had no such memories to cling to. However, he was criticized by his father and brother for wanting a home and a life beyond hunting. By the time he was six months old, his autonomy had been robbed of him and that was a continuing theme throughout his life. Despite being fed demon blood as a baby, he managed to be caring and compassionate toward others. Sam's analysis of Dean was spot on. Dean held so tightly onto Sam for his own good, not Sam's. While I love both characters, Sam was treated badly throughout the series.
I’m a Dean girl, and I love him, but I’ve always noticed how cruel Dean could be, especially in the later seasons. His cruelty, particularly toward Sam, Castiel, and Jack, became more blatant, but the show didn’t really address it properly. While it was acknowledged at times, it was never treated with the seriousness it deserved throughout the series. I don’t think this aspect of his character should’ve been removed, though. It’s interesting and realistic that Dean would have these flaws. However, the show often portrayed him as a sorrowful traumatized hero, with everyone else just kind of existing in the background of his story.
it was the dabb era from 12-15. thats where everything went super downhill and everyone was stripped of what made them them. i absolutely hate jack and it was so obvious jack was just a self insert for dabb (if kripke was pretty much chuck, then dabb made himself jack) and the show became super hard to watch. everything and everyone's personalities and achievements were retconned in favor of dabb's new world building.
Season 4 is where I always say the Dean train took off. The holier than thou complex Dean gets in this season is unbearable and it continues for the rest of the series. Sam is sideline and depowered to the point he wasn't even necessary in the show. Sam, along with Buffy Summers, and Smallville's Clark Kent, are my favorite characters of all time. I really hated to see his character become what he did. When we got Soulless Sam tho... I was happy. Then they ruined it.
Sam was definitely sidelined in season 4, but then he saved the world in season 5 even though Dean seriously doubted he could do it. Castiel actually had the most faith in Sam when it came to overcoming Lucifer's control. Cas is another character the writers nerfed to make Dean look stronger and smarter. Dean was not that smart to be honest, and there are many times throughout the show where Dean was proven right, but it made zero sense. The writers tried so hard to make us believe that Dean was more intelligent than Sam, who managed to get a full ride to Stanford to pursue law all while hunting monsters, and Castiel, an angel who was thousands of years old and knew things about the universe most humans could never comprehend. Yeah, okay.
Eric Kripke, the original creator and showrunner, had always intended a five season arc, so Dean and Sam saved the world and…The End. Sam sacrificed himself for Dean and watching him live the apple pie life was supposed to be it. UPN/WB wanted it to continue because it was a cash cow so it did. Without Eric, btw.
you missed a major issue in Season 3 - the writer's strike meaning less episodes. There is 6 less episodes to this season to see where Sam could have dealt with everything going on.
I just watched Supernatural for the first time recently and wondered if I was supposed to like Dean. Other than a handful of times throughout the series I hated his character. There were so many times where Sam would do something it would be treated as the wrong thing to do only for Dean to do the exact same thing and it's suddenly the right thing. The one that immediately comes to minds is the monster girl that saved Sam by I think killing her own mother. Dean kills her because she killed someone to save her son. The rest of her life she ate dead people. The very next season another monster suddenly gets a pass because he saved Dean in purgatory.
Well Benny proved himself. He didn’t feed on humans and the only time he actually hurt someone if I remember correctly was Martin but Martin was really begging for it. The woman, Annie I think actually killed 4 people to save her kid. And while I understand why she did it she still killed 4 people.
I have so many things I want to say, or can't figure out how to properly say it. However, the main reason Sam has little autonomy over his body is due to Dean. Sam is resurrected in season 2 after Dean makes a demon deal. When Sam has his soul restored, Dean has Death put up a wall so Sam can't remember his torture; a decision Sam isn't even given the opportunity to make on his own. Sam is then taken over by Gadreel after Dean manipulates him during their little mind link. Don't even get me started on how Dean scolds Sam for not looking after Kevin, only for Dean to end up being the cause of Kevin's death because he let Gadreel take over Sam's body. Before that, Sam is willing to sacrifice himself when he's in the middle of curing Crowley, only for Dean to convince him to stop that too. Personally, if I've learned anything from the show, it's that Sam is a much stronger character emotionally. We see him grieve the loss of Dean several times, but he also goes on to accept his brother's death more than once too. Dean often resents Sam for this because he can't imagine living in a world without Sam in it. From the very beginning, we knew Sam wanted his freedom. He wanted to escape their father, a life of hunting, and do his own thing. Whenever Dean died, he grieved, but then he also did his own thing. He accepted it. Sam doesn't need Dean in the same way Dean needs Sam because Dean had it ingrained in him at such an early age to protect Sam. He gets his validation from what he sees as protecting those he cares about, even though he ends up hurting them further with his selfishness. And as much as I didn't care for the finale very much, I think it kind of makes sense. Dean can't imagine a life without Sam, but Sam can imagine having one without Dean. Him looking at the car after he gets older isn't him being a miserable old man. I think it's him reminiscing about the past and missing his brother; the way many loved ones would do exactly the same.
I agree with you completely. I think Dean resented Sam for being able to live without him. He wanted Sam to live, but on his terms, and I think he kind of suffocated his brother.
While I agree what you said I only want to mention that Dean never got the chance to learn that he is also important. Dean was only loved if he would do exactly what John wanted. Be a good soldier and take care of Sammy. The time where Sam ran away Dean said that their Dad was awful to Dean. His whole self worth was linked to Sam. Sam on the other hand didn’t have that as much because he didn’t have the same expectations put on him as Dean. Dean made sure of that. Dean tried to be not only a brother but a mother and a father too. That is why Sam always could imagine his life without Dean. I mean isn’t it that the point of being a parent? You cannot live without your child but your child can live without you. I’m just saying that Dean never had a chance to not be completely broken and in the end also angry and beaten down because his entire life he had to make sure Sam wasn’t.
There's many reasons why I liked Dean less and less as the seasons progressed and the MANY sins he committed against Sam without ever even feeling a little bad for them are certainly a big reason...
Also Deans faults arent called out, nor is he growing and maturing like Sam does. Sam aside getting Victimized just gets better as character, and Dean becomes the worst by never doing that. Or regressing again. But thats never called out, and ifg he bad, funny, Sam, ominous soundtrack.
@@Ofra8191-just wrote the same comment...dean was very negative character in last 3 seassons... i loved jack/sam relationship so much for example - dean was a complet abuser there but never was called out ( i remember how people got angry on sam bc of benny - while sam had all right of tge world for his feelings, but were ok with trashy dean )
OH MY GOD THANK YOU!! My sister & I always joked because despite being the oldest (and while still understanding the "responsibility" Dean felt) there was always something that drew me to Sam and I could never put it into words, & this video is helping me realize that I think it was just how well-written his character was (as someone who loves deeply complex characters) & yet so egregiously underutilized. He was always the scapegoat for when something bad happened, even if his action had the best of intentions. There was a complexity to his character (the juxtaposition of consuming demon blood/addiction but with the motivation of trying to keep from killing the humans the demons possessed, which Dean was pretty merciless about) that always felt untapped & it was so frustrating because it grounded the show in this ugliness of what hunters faced while demonstrating Sam's desire to still be "good" amongst so much ugliness. As a Sam girl, this video is so validating, lol. But also, this is just a great dive into Sam & the show!
I saw it a little different. Sam was portrayed as the selfLESS brother. Dean was portrayed as the selfISH brother who only occasionally learned his lessons, but then forgot those lessons very quickly. I've known several people like this in real life.
I saw Sam be as boring from S6 onwards. S1-5 I found him rather sanctimonious and not that appealing. Dean, all the way. Sam portrayed the “victim card” too much for me.
@@v.p.7828he never portrayed the “victim card”. The guys always blaming himself for everything but he just doesn’t talk about it with Dean much. I mean sometimes he lets Dean know how he feels that there’s something wrong with him
I've always been a Samgirl, and the way the show treated Sam caused me to stop watching. The Dean show didn't interest me the way the show about the brothers did. Every opportunity to diminish Sam's role and feelings was taken, and my interest waned.
I think that many people felt it this way and therefore the viewership went down... nobody was interested in a dean show... for me the most interesting and actually 1 of not so many likable features of dean was his love for sam and brothers dynamic... deans dictatorship or his dynamic with other characters were very boring and showed actually his worst feautures...i pretty much disliked dean in later seassons... abusive, selfish, whiny...
I've done nothing but whine about Sam vs Dean for many years and it has fallen on deaf ears. When Sam lost his soul...TBH...I didn't want him to get it back, mainly because of Dean. Dean, to me, didn't deserve to have that Sam. Dean is a hypocrite. Let's face it. If Sam had gone to purgatory, made friends with a vampire named Benny, how do you think Dean would have been about that? Dean expected Sam just to accept it and shut up about it. Sam, on the other hand, would have been dragged through the mill with Dean looking Sam in the face saying something like: If I didn't know you, I would hunt you. Gee, does that sound familiar? Dean was never really called out on his BS and hypocrisy like he should have been.
@@linastolen8752 I'm thinking about starting a Sam appreciation club! LOL! Perhaps that is what my first content creation should be about...how SPN fans made Sam Winchester the Anti-Hero/Hero and Dean Winchester the Charlatan.
I feel like during the Kripke era, the flip was quite clever. I think we were *supposed* to start to mistrust Sam, and his impending, emerging "monster", and this happened amazingly well through the focus on Dean's reactions. We were shown Sam's story and his battles with his destiny clear as day, but the narrative sympathy for him just isn't there. Sam was labelled wrong by everyone. But the end result was - Sam was right. He saved people. He killed Lilith. He sacrificed himself to save the world. But this monstrous idea of him stuck, for every side character, and even with fans. In any fan discussion you get "Sam's the worst brother." It led to Dean being forgiven for things - "Yeah it was selfish, but I'm ok with it." Whereas all of Sam's choices were labelled "selfish" and he was punished for them for eternity.
got back into spn recently and truly forgot how weird so many people's perspectives on the show are that they don't notice sam's narrative, like, at all... spn is one of my favorite shows but sam winchester will probably be my favorite character in ANYTHING for forever, haha
I might've missed this in the video, but also what annoyed me to no end was that they established early on (in the freaking pilot!) that the brothers knew how to fight. Not bar brawl fighting, proper "i know how to get out of being mounted and put someone in an arm bar" legit skills. Then eventually that became "Giant Moose gets knocked out with one punch every fight while Dean takes on everyone" fight scenes and if that wasn't already insulting and unrealistic, the amount of head trauma they had Sam endure its a miracle he didn't develop CTE.
everytime Dean does condemn everything to save Sam is always seen as good and okay, but everytime Sam saves Dean they show that is a dumb decision made out of selfish reasons and there fore a bad thing that Sam saves Dean
I started Supernatural around the beginning of Covid lockdowns, quickly became a fan, rewatched so many times over the years since it ended. Enjoyed your take and pretty much agree, but just can’t help myself overlooking the many issues with the show. It’s something I keep revisiting like an old friend. Would absolutely love to hear more of your takes on this show though!
I love Supernatural, especially the Kripke era, and I agree that Sam took a backseat to Dean's perspective during a lot of seasons. I wonder if Kripke or the writer/s in charge found his traits more relatable or were older siblings or something I think there's an interesting metaphor there of how when Sam went back into the family business he was treated as the lesser protagonist in the story, and when he gets more of the focus again during Season 5, he makes the ultimate decision of saying yes and leaping into hell to save the world.
Thank you for making this video. Being active in the spn fandom, the hatred towards sam is still rampant. I understand why Dean is the fan fave. But I think the Sam hatred is so stupid. The show and the writers didn't give justice to I think one of the best and most interesting characters in fiction overall. This man endured a century in hell and still managed to be a kind human being despite all the trauma. Thank you for giving voice to the complaints us Sam fans have been screaming for years to the ignorant deaf ears of dean fans and destiel fans
I assumed the actor playing Sam was happy to move on to Walker Texas Ranger simply so he wasn't knocked down/out in every fight like in the later Supernatural seasons. Oh and he wasn't included in the prequel at all. Go figure.
Cool video. Of course it was easy to see how Sam's perspective was shoved aside along with his agency and the character himself for the post Swan era. I might even have seen signs of it in season 4, but I didn't realize that it started way back in season two.
Ooof, yeah. I'm rewatching the show with a friend right now and we both just can't stop marvelling at the tonal whiplash that occurs constantly, with Sam being consistently the more emotionally mature of the brothers but the narrative backing Dean over Sam. At least in s1-5 you can argue that this was the writers (albeit clumsily) attempting to pave the narrative leading to the Michael/Lucifer showdown that was the original show's main arc. But after the show got re-upped past s5 it just limps along like a directionless zombie and Sam's character gets ground into the pavement. But hey, at least we get 9 seasons of actually sometimes astonishingly good meta humor sprinkled in amongst the dreck? XD
As a Sam girl I will always have issues with how the show, after season 5, would set up something interesting for Sam only for them to squash it. Part of me felt that since Dean became more popular the producers decided to let Dean be the main hero. You can see how he was mostly the one to take down almost every big bad in the following seasons. To this day I will always hate the decision that had Dean be the one to kill Lucifer. In my opinion Lucifer should have always been Sam's to kill. They had history and tension between them for many seasons and Lucifer was one of the main sources for Sam's trauma. It would have been so rewarding for Sam and the fans to finally see Sam but an end to him but nope have to let big brother Dean steal the show and do it. And yes I get it that only an archangel with the stupid archangel blade could kill another archangel. I still feel like that writing choice was stupid and used as an excuse for Dean to kill Lucifer. Overall the first 5 seasons were great because each season was planned and was connected. Each season was like a bread crumb to a bigger picture. This is what the later seasons lacked. No thought out plan, just keep chucking out one big bad after the other.
They let DEAN kill Lucifer??? I stopped watching SPN from season 11 and now this makes me feel even more confident in my decision. The intertwined fate of Sam and Lucifer ending in such a way is just so disappointing.
Sam was a character I related too the most, I have a younger brother just like Dean and I've had people tell me how cool that is to have a brother Dean coded. He's a good brother but my God when you live through it it's not cool. I wanted an entire finale episode dedicated to Sam's life post Dean like those moments of his life just skimmed over without much though. Jared is an amazing actor but it's like the writers were Jensen gets the ratings so lets tell it from Dean's P.O.V. he's the main character now. Jensen also great actor, but Sam was the character for why I kept watching.
oh my god op this is AMAZING… exactly what a very tiny subset of the fandom have been talking about on tumblr for years. comment section feels like therapy
I agree with you. I'll admit I didn't see it in this perspective before but now I see you're right. They did do Sam dirty. It was all about Dean. How much he loved his brother, how much he'll do anything for his brother, how he was always there for his brother, how he was basically the hero.
THIS WAS PERFECT! thank you so much for this essay it was so needed like no one really talks about this on UA-cam T-T thank you so so much for actully talking about sam's trauma and how the spn narrative favors dean so so much! subscribing thank you so so much for bringing dean's abuse of sam
Dean was the furthest thing from perfect. If anything he was portrayed as a more flawed, volatile character than Sam who was more emotionally stable and mature. Dean was older but not as smart as Sam, he grew up a hunter but he was not as skilled as Sam, and he wasn’t even the favorite of their father even though he stayed with him when Sam left for college. Part of the appeal of Dean is how broken and second fiddle he is. He was forced to grow up a single parent to his younger brother while his dad was out being a superhero, so it makes sense that he would be over protective. Because he wasn’t raised in a stable household and never made any connections, and his only goal in life was to protect Sam. He would do terrible things with the best of intentions, and with the knowledge he had. That was the whole arc for Dean. I really wish it ended at season 5, because the story for both brothers ended perfectly right there. That, coupled with Jensen Ackles beautiful performance, Dean becomes viewed as more of a sympathetic antihero.
Thank you. The take I have been seeing in the comments and/or etc. that Dean was somehow portrayed as perfect or whatever. Is very odd. Like u said, he is very flawed, and far from perfect, and has to work through stuff. Also really like the rest of this comment.
@@Dragon_AoiNobody said he was perfect and nobody is hating but there’s some apparent favoritism with most storylines being centered around him while missing opportunities to develop Sam more and show him overcome his feelings of being a freak. Also most of the thing Dean does is forgiven and not brought up much while Sam is condemned. Again, both of the brothers are the best but the writers screwed up
You kinda proved the videos point. We show gives you ALL of this context and Information about Dean but Sam doesn't get nearly the same amount of care or character development.
I didn't watch after season 5. I was busy. Have to say as someone who lost my 12yo son to cancer and lost a sibling and parent as a young adult, I was frustrated with the Winchster's failing to learn anything. Maybe it's easier in real life when you don't have a way to bring them back. You don't get to sacrifice yourself for loved ones. But they couldn't learn from their fathers death how shitty that move was? Really? I thought at some point they'd learn to lean into pain. If they're so tough, why couldn't any of them learn this?
I loved the video and the point of view but drastically disagree, I agree they didn’t explore Sams point of view really at all! And leaving that 6 months out was such a wasted opportunity. However! I remember watching it when it first came out and feeling SO bad for Sam, over and over again. I kept remembering that none of this was his fault but he is being manipulated and force by circumstances into being a lucifer in this story AND I hated Ruby! But I think it was perfectly done to show Sam becoming a man and Dean having to come to terms with Sam being his own man who makes his own choices, not the kid he has to look after anymore. I think that’s a huge part of life which has to be developed over time and Dean ignoring his feeling in prior seasons would have milder Sam’s action. It’s a very normal coming of age story.
I applaude you for being of the few that could see beyond Dean's POV, but through the years I've met so many people who Hate on Sam for what he did, even it wasn't compleatly his fault. He had part of it, but not all that happened in S4 was am being bad just cause
I can't say I cared for supernatural as much as I've cared for other pieces of media, I watched it, certainly, enjoyed parts of it, hated other parts of it. This comment is mostly for algorithm points.
my head cannon is that it was Chuck's way of punishing him for straying from the path of the hunter. A petty god holding a grudge well past the expiration date.
This is why I will always be team Sam. On re-watch I can see how the focus shifted in favour of Dean. Its a shame that they let him fall to the waste side. I agree with others about how as time went on we got less of Sam's back story and more about what Dean gave up as a child to look after Sammy. I'm glad i tapped out at season 11. There's only so much you can have them both blame the other for something before it gets tiresome. Great video :D
I’ve seen all of Supernatural, and I just don’t think it’s worth rewatching. The longer it went the more it felt like the storylines were just running themselves in circles.
@@midnightharvest3065 Dean was clearly the writers favorite from Season 6 and onwards. But to say that he's a Gary Sue is wrong on so many levels. A Gary/Mary Sue typically never has to struggle too much to overcome their obstacles and everyone just instantly likes them. Mind you im talking about in-universe. I think we can both agree that from start to finish, both brothers got kicked in the nuts (quite literally on more than one occasion) so hard, so many times that the Gary Sue trope is the one thing that would never apply to either one of them.
Hey, so this is a really well done audio essay and breakdown. Really cool job. Great work. I don’t know exactly how it started playing, I was listening to “Guntuber” breakdowns. Then this auto-played. But it reminded me of how disappointed I became with the series. I know for me the more angelic and Judeo-Christian stuff stated to lose my attention after like season 3, 4, or 5ish. The psychic angle, and the way the writers were turning on the character of Sam in favor of Cas and Dean. It was unfortunate. I for one thought the idea of two brothers bonded by past trauma (family, “work”, abandonment, fear) was a great sub-context tool. It sucks it was turned and instead of two brothers backing each other and growing better, it became “which one’s going to mess things up this time” over and over again. Post-season 5 is basically unwatchable for me, even if it did have some fun or interesting aspects. The intro of a third brother, an adopted (kind of?) brother, and an eventual betrayal of the two co-lead characters. It’s a master-class on how to let pride ruin a great deal of promise. (The writing, I mean). I use to say “I wish it could have stayed focused on monster or even myth hunting” but that was all thrown out. Don’t get me started on the Men of Letters shenanigans. 🙄
I have a theory about why this happened. I think its two-fold, and comes down to some realizations that I think happened in the writers room during season one. I think they fully intended at the beginning of the show for Sam to be the POV character and Dean to be a supporting, Han Solo-style character. But then, as they were making season one, I think they realized 2 things. 1. While Jared is charming and competent, Jensen is all around the better actor. He has more range, is more natural and believable, and he tends to have more and better chemistry with a wider range of fellow actors. And 2. I think people like Kripke have a hard time identifying with - and therefore liking and writing for - characters they think are too straightforwardly heroic. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree, but it's a common opinion that morally upright characters are less interesting than morally gray ones, and I'm betting that Kripke, and likely a few of the other writers, started to find Dean more fun and interesting as a character, especially once they started digging into the implications of what was on the page and stopped treating him as the one-note Han Solo. I was watching the show as it aired, and you could definitely feel the shift as the show decided it liked Dean better, and being in fandom in the early days, we talked about why we thought this happened. And this was what a lot of us thought.
@@mariesilver6103 , Jensen Ackles was only a perfect actor whenever it came to his role as Jason Todd, (the Red Hood), and Jared and Misha Collins are better actors than Jensen Ackles is.
This video is spot on, nice work. I mean yeah, the writers did clearly have a Dean bias even in season 5 it's repeatedly stated that Sam started the Apocalypse by breaking the final seal but it's like everyone forgot that Dean broke the first one. The number of times that Dean would be judgmental of Sam over something while committing acts that were the same or worse. I honestly lost count. I think the writers had a favorite, and it wasn't Sam. It was a disservice to Sam's character but also Dean's as well, Dean's character arc was supposed to be the overprotective older brother who eventually learns to respect his younger brother isn't a child anymore, but it's like they repeated that same storyline over and over.
I have three ideas as to why Sam was focused on less as the show went on: 1) Sam was originally pushed to the side because of the writers strike during the end of season 3. 6 episodes had to be cut which caused the season to shorten and end with Dean going to hell when it was originally going to end with Sam finding a way to save him. The writers didn’t want use season 4 to continue season 3’s plot so they created Castiel as a way to start the season with Dean already being saved. As we now know Cas ended up being a fan favorite and his storyline ties with Deans so Sam stepped back a bit whenever Deans plot happened. It was also stated by Misha that Cas and Sam hardly had scenes together because Jared would always play around which caused delays. Sam definitely got less development but I think at least for season 3/4 it was because the writers had to adapt to the new changes to the plot. 2) There were more interesting plots to have with Dean and fans felt more sympathy for him because of their upbringing. There’s been multiple episodes that showed how he had to take a parental role for Sam and while they both suffered Sam had a bit of a less traumatic childhood because Dean sacrificed his. Dean even refused to go to a group home and went back to his abusive father just so Sam wouldn’t be alone. Bobby had a soft spot for Dean because he was aware of how he stepped up for Sam there was an ep where Bobby accidentally revealed to Dean that he was his favorite and I think that also mirrored how a lot of fans felt. 3) Fans have speculated that Jensen was just easier to work with and even Jared fans can acknowledge Jensen was a better actor or at least took it more seriously. Jensen and Misha have said multiple times that Jared would always play pranks and as I said before Jared played around so much that it caused Cas and Sam to have little scenes together. Jared played so many pranks on Misha that Jensen even said in a con that Jared went too far once so he actually went to Misha’s trailer to apologize to him and forced Jared to as well. Obviously I don’t know if the crew actually started disliking Jared but when you have a very tight schedule and a deadline for episodes it might have been it’s easier to just give the guy that’s causing a ruckus less screen time.
I never really heard this put to words, but yes. It always did bother me when I was watching season 4. How much they villainized him. It isn't a dynamic I believe was a bad idea. On the contrary; it reminded me as a kid of my own dynamic with my cool older sister. I do think that's why I am and always will be a Sam girl, because I related. And thus, the mistreatment by the narrative, while Dean gets tearful rants about Hell and torture, really hurt to me.
To be honest, it's not that much the lack of agency or the fact that Dean often makes decisions for Sam that bothers me. I didn't expect the charaters to be flawless, or the story to be politcally correct. I actually enjoyed them being messy, codependent and putting each other first. If anythging, its the fact that after s5, they take any opportunity to undermine Sam as a hero, in his love for Dean, even in his capacity to be the more sympathetic of zhe two. How could Mystery Spot Sam not go looking for his brother in s8? They never gave an opportunity to Sam to actually save Dean's life, to die for him. In the end, while Dean dies a hero, Sam is given the apple pie life which automatically denies him his hero status, How can a man who foufht toe to toe with Lucifer himself stop being a hunter? (By the way, shall we talk of the fact that he is even denied killing his archinemesis, Lucifer?). Sam's arc as intended by Kripike was that of the reluclant hero who ends up saving the World and dying as the greatest hero of all. But in s15 Sam just goes back to his old life, as if 15 years of a hunter life hadn't changef him at all. What bothers me is that the writers didn't respect the codes of their own genre, which was an epic, a mytholohical story, a tragedy. The kind of story that requires symetrie and ultimate drama and where the heroes die at the end. This was the story of two brothers and their undying love for each other. If you put one above the other, you end up ruining your story. Thankfully, Jared served his character so well, that many times he compensated for the poor writing.
YEEESSS!!! OMG!! I have always been a Sam!Girl and you hae no idea how much I had debated and disccuss with fans trying to make them understand my boy. But some people's hatres towards S4 Sam in particular is so sad. And even though I don't mind Dean being a POV and the Story revolving around Sam (since that was the main dynamic from the get go) Sam still had his space, but then Dean became too much of a POV as much as a protagonist what lead to Sam being left behind and in later season he was extremly put forgotten. I Specially still can't forgive the writer for making Dean so much of a father figure and main influence to Jack when Sam had the most in common with him and also had the most empathy and sympathy. The three Sam, Dean and Cas could have been somewhat of father figures, but the level of focus in Dean always annoyed me... You pointed out some of sa,e point I've seen with someone else years ago, and is still true.
One of the biggest things holding me back from loving supernatural is how they take away Sam’s agency and autonomy. They never treat Sam with any respect and Dean is always treated as the “perfect” brother and he never respects Sam’s bodily autonomy and I hate it. I loose the first five seasons but they still don’t fully respect Sam and his storylines are really never treated with respect. Also the Winchesters are so unhealthy and I really think they should have left each other long ago, they are so codependent it hurts. The ending really sucks and so does the seasons post 1-5.
I hated when they kind of just got rid of Sam's Powers after like season2 or 3? I guess I mean after the episode where a bunch of the other psychic children are killed (RIP Andy.). I get Supernatural was supposed to end after that but they could of at least made Sam's powers actually cool instead of making him just a living exorcism machine. He seemed to be able to learn telekinsis so why not make him because the best of all the Psychic children by having every power then take it away.
Excellent video the show definitely forgot to treat sam like a protagonist in the show the series should had ended in season 5 even though I did enjoy parts of season 6 and the Carver era of supernatural even though i love dean sam deserved better thanks for showing that even during the kripke era he was pushed aside at times
So thankful that there are more people with normal iq watching spn who see the huge bias from the show writers... sam was such a great character but his trauma was almost not explored while we saw dean whining about some stupidity ( from daddy/mommy issues to his anger issues, abuse and jealousy) in each seasson or even castiel setting his hurt after freeing luci and watching tv while being posessed ( canon insane as castiel as well posessed a body- not him but the body was posessed) on tge same level as hurt sam gad to feel after being tortured for over a year in tge hell cage...
I have conflicting feelings about this video essay. And not in a negative light because it’s actually made really well and has some really good points. I am a Dean Girl through and through. And while I agree that Sam lost some agency, I would say it became a problem in more later seasons as opposed to early seasons. Sam loses his body autonomy at birth, with Azazel essentially bioengineering Sam to be Lucifers perfect vessel. When it becomes a problem, is when the writers use it to spotlight Dean more. I see seasons 1-5 as a duo show, whereas 6-15 as more Dean centric with the Sam erasure ever apparent. Dean is flawed and struggles with control. And Sam struggles with being controlled. I think Season 1-5 show this really perfectly. I have been able to see both sides of the argument with the demon blood storyline and how it correlates to addiction. This probably makes little sense and I want to stress that I think this video is brilliant and nuanced, just have some disagreements with it
Dean's rage and hubris increases whereas Sam's character gets smaller and more traumatised, and as viewers we go with the louder character (actually loud and emotionally expressive). But quiet, inward, more subtle Sam - he is never quite forgiven for his "mistakes" which weren't ever actually mistakes. Classic example being the end of the episode where Cas sends Dean back in time onto the submarine to grab something (as you do); meanwhile, poor Sam realises he is trapped in the bunker with his nemesis and abuser-for-centuries Lucifer. We're given, what, 3 seconds of Jared's terrified face as his reaction to that. And the last 10 minutes of the final act is Dean, pensively sitting outside. ??? Sam lives a life of penance and he never stands up for himself because he still thinks of himself as the reason for all this crap. He thinks he deserves the abuse he receives. In season 8 when he runs away reeling, for the first time removing himself from the demons and angels possibly thinking that might be the best thing, he was punished for that too.
Yeah and half of the fandom Is just worshipping Dean and bashing Sam and talking nothing but crap about Sam for no reason, saying that Sam is a whiner, and a terrible brother which was not true
Always fascinated by people complaining about parts of a story like "Dean and John have a secret, taking away agency from Sam" as if it was a "mistake" when in fact it's kind of the point of the story. Lies, betrayals, lack of agency, are all themes of the series.
all themes just applied to sam? over and over and over with no real conclusion besides sam accepting this abuse? do you think that's good storytelling?
I think the problem isn't "Dean and John have a secret, taking away agency from Sam", it's that the show often, and particularly in the latter seasons, framed Dean (and John) as being in the right, or at least as this being the actions of good people just trying to do their best while glossing over how messed up their actions are. That makes it hard to feel like them messing up is the point of the story, when the story doesn't seem to view it as a mistake. It isn't that their actions are bad, it's that the narrative frames it as being good or at least understandable, so Sam should just forgive and forget, no matter how many times they violate his agency. Also, as a Sam girl myself, it started to really frustrate me that Dean would do something and it was fine and good and understandable, then Sam would do the same thing and suddenly it's wrong and bad and we should punish Sam for it relentlessly. The problem isn't that they're both flawed people who mess up, it's the different framing Dean's and Sam's mistakes get in the story. It starts to feel hypocritical and like the show has nothing of substance to actually say about their actions, no narrative point. Unless the point is 'Dean good, Sam bad' but frankly that is a bad story in my opinion.
Sam's POV is very useful to introduce the universe, but not very good to keep up with, we are here for the fantastical, he resents the fantastical, and never really seems to e joy hunting, we and dean do
Yeah I kinda started to notice this on a recent rewatch. In one of the episodes towards the end of season 5, he said something -- I can't remember what because my memory is crap -- that was the polar opposite of some opinion he had long held which was pretty fundamental for most of the episodes before it. I think it might have been something about his psychic powers? I really don't remember, and I'm not about to watch the last half dozen or more episodes again to find what it was. But I remember hearing that and thinking "WTF? That's a sudden, very weird reversal that goes against previously established canon, with no explanation for the change."
Listening to everything you've said, I sort of agree. Except. I think it was literally the point. The whole story is literally about lack of agency. For Sam, for Dean, for Castiel, for basically every major character the defining trait is in some way a lack of agency. Possibly even Chuck. I get what you're saying, but I'm say that might have been the point.
yes the show may have turned on Sam but if his little stunt with the equalizer had worked the entire Multiverse would have been destroyed i know he loved jack like a son but no one the entirety of existence
Its true the Series either completely sidelines Sam in the later season or clearly favors Dean giving him more emotional arcs and storylines. Castiel & Crowley even seemed to eclipse Sam in the story several times. Also Sam seemed way more petulant and unsimpathetic then Dean over several seasons. That's why the ending angered many fans because Dean was the Fan favorite not given a happy ending.
The series finale sucked because neither brother got a happy ending. This video literally shows Sam as a sad lonely old man who's wife either died or possibly left him, The only time Sam was happy was with his son Dean Jr. How is that a happy ending? Your right that the show sidelined Sam
@@patrickmcguire7896 It was heavily implied that Sam married Eileen. They didn't have her in the final episode as Sam's wife because of Covid restrictions; they tried to have as few close interactions between actors as possible because of the social distancing requirements at the time. My guess is they only showed the son at all (which was very brief) because they probably figured the fans would be upset if we didn't at least get a glimpse. Thing is, who Sam's wife and son were wasn't the focus. It was that, while having to grieve and endure a life without his brother, Sam did finally get to have the "normal" life and family he'd always wished he could have. In that sense, Sam did get his happy ending. He got to grow old with peace and his family (albeit sans Dean).
This is one of the many problems i have with this show, when i first watched it I never noticed so many things and after watching videos about all they messed up on Im like wow this show had issues the whole time.
I think the beginning of this problem started with Jessica’s death. We never get to know Jessica as a person, so when she dies, we can’t relate to Sam’s grief. We know what he’s feeling in an abstract way by thinking, “What would I feel if my SO died in a horrible way?” But we don’t know how he feels in particular. And since so much time in the first season is spent on Sam’s struggle with Jessica’s death, yet no depth is given to the emotions, he came across as not as interesting. Whereas with Dean, his emotional responses to losing people are always interesting and unique to him. And Dean has more layers to his character. You have the womanizing tough guy exterior, and underneath that is the dutiful son and older brother trying to be responsible, and underneath that is a child that never got a childhood, a child that doesn’t believe he deserves love but desperately, obsessively chases it in the vain hope that someone will value him more than he values himself. So not only do you have intense emotions, but you have intense emotions that three personas have to deal with in their own ways. Sam is obsessed with his identity and whether or not it’s adequate. By design, he can’t be a compelling character unless his sense of identity is at the forefront at all times. We don’t know enough about who Sam is, deep inside, and who he thinks he is. Dean calls him a nerd, but does he think of himself as a nerd? Does he enjoy or reject that title? Why did he love Jessica? What about their relationship was special, and why couldn’t Sam have had that relationship with anyone else? How does he view being open about his work if him keeping the secret from Jess is what got her killed? I wanted answers to those questions, and I never got them. Makes me so mad, but I’m glad to see someone addressing it.
I think the reason why they treated sam the way they did was because the life they live in the show is very isolated from the rest of the world as you can't really go to a normal doctor with half the stuff they get involved with!! And also it's portrayed as life and death constantly so they don't have much room for feelings. Given the way they were raised i think especially Dean's character sees it's him and sam as they fight everything to keep everyone else safe as they do repeatedly say it's a lonely life
No peace for Sam? He got to live a normal life, have a family and die of old age ( after Dean died.) . You can't say they ignore Sam and his feelings and he has no autonomy and in the same video show examples of him expressing his feelings, having them acknowledged and making his own decisions. If you want to get technical neither he nor Dean really had autonomy until the last 2 eps when thry were free from God. And never was Dean shown to be the perfect hero. He was very selfish, a drunk almost. A womanizer . A scared little boy who was still bound by his father's rule of TAKE CARE OF SAM. Deans whole life was to look after Sam. And he most certainly wasn't perfect
@@HaevynReyhne Yes! I completely agree with you! I get that Dean did take over screen time and story, but that’s what happens in long running shows. It happens in long running stories. Look at Star Wars, Lord of Rings, as the stories go the main protagonist takes a bit of a seat on the sidelines. Even in Smallville there were large chunks of story dedicated to Lex with Clark taking a back seat
HERE HERE! Me neither... The first time, I did find it kinda funny at the beggining, but it quickly turn way too depressing, I hate the episode, Sam was forced to watch his brother died +100 times and then deal with his loss for 6 Months, is awfull... Just imagining having to go through that...
Agree. I hate how it was made for laughs. Jared said he knows the episode was supposed to be a comedy but he needed to act accordingly to what's happening so for him he was just miserable the whole ep. And that's how I felt too when watching it. I didn't really enjoy it. I just hated Sam suffering and it wasn't even acknowledged
Me neither. What Sam experienced in this episode is horrible, and the whole show just kind of forgets about it. Why does Sam have to go through all this and get nothing in return? It doesn't make any sense.
You seemingly missed the point of the writers in the first 5 seasons taking all agency away from sam, as lucifer states multiple times from the very start they all knew thats where things would end up, and in the episode where they first team up with crowley it even shows to what extent, his friend introduced sam to jess the very woman that would start his road, and just as his friend Brady was a demon put directly in sams path to manipulate him, lucifer shows just how much his life was manipulated by azazel, and in them taking all the agency away from sam makes him taking it all back and willingly jumping in the hole the more significant, that was the one thing sam did that was his free choice his free will taking the ultimate agency back from those that took all agency away from him his entire life
For me the appeal of the show died after the main characters refuesed to die when they should have while facing apocalyptic events where many nameless people die XP Past season 5 I was just wondering what the point of the whole show was without much attachment and keep getting flabbergasted on how they trivialize death to revive characters that should be dead XD
I'm sorry you're so wrong, your right that the show failed Sam but not in the way you mentioned. They failed Sam by not giving him his own personal arc or his friends, other enemies, and other time Sam just became bland. Let's go over what happened from season 6 onwards. Soulless Sam was meant to be responsible for Soulless Sam's actions when Sam got his soul back Dean NEVER held what Sam did Soulless against him (That was Bobby). As for season 8 the biggest grip against him wasn't not looking for Dean it was that we NEVER saw him grieving for Dean. They could've easily done with what they did with Ruby and have a flashback showing Sam devested and broken after Dean so we would care about his new relationship and get sympathy for him. But we never see that! Plus his relationship with Ameila wasn't well liked in general and Sam left her before Dean even got back, also Sam didn't even seem that guilt ridden over Kevin. And no the show doesn't portray Sam completely in the wrong! Dean is shown to be the wrong and apologizes for his attitude, so no the writers aren't giving Dean a pass. Yes Season 9 the writers did Sam dirty but not with the angel possession in that they didn't give Sam an Arc at all and only one real centric episode. Cas & Crowley got way more story than Sam and Dean had several centric episodes included the funniest one in the season. In season 11 we actually get an arc for Sam that doesn't revolve around Dean and its great! Him turning down Lucifer and to not give into guilt and self-sacrifice was well written and something Sam over came on his own, in that season Sam did nothing wrong. But here's where the problem occurred in season 12 they gave Sam an arc with the BMOL and a leadership arc but their weren't enough episodes dedicated to it so it felt rushed, also he had nothing going on with his own mother Mary when they brought her back which seriously rubbed fans the wrong way. Then it continued in season 13, they had a start of something great with him and Jack but Jack left way to soon and after that season the two would rarely get time alone together and in season 14 they set Sam up as a leader with hunters under his command but they did nothing with it and just killed them all. You see my point Sam lacked any personal arcs And then theirs the other issue, the writers didn't really give Sam any friends in the series. Yeah Sam had friends in college but we never really see them in the show. Think about it, nearly every reoccurring character either had a better relationship with Dean or had more screen time alone with him than Sam. And there are some you can't deny are more Dean's friends than Sam's like Gath, Jo, Benny and Castiel. Even those who switch sides seemed to like Dean more because the writers made them that way like Victor Hendrikson, Crowley, Cole Trenton, Arthur Ketch. Then their were the villains. In Kripke era they did a good job giving the brother equal villains and their own like Meg, Gordon, Alister & Zachariah, minor bad guys but each had a rivalry with only one of the brothers. But after season 5 most of the villains seemed to only have rivalry's with Dean or once again just more screen Time with him, even Gadreel the angel who possessed Sam had more rivalry with Dean than him. That's probably why they kept brining Lucifer back cause the writers couldn't come up with any other foe to face him.
No, the fans didn't care about Sam not having a relationship with Mary. Why should he? He didn't know the woman at all, had no memories of her. It actually would have been bizarre for him to have anything except resentment for the woman WHO TRADED HER SON TO A DEMON FOR THE LIFE OF HER HUSBAND. The show repeatedly failed Sam over and over by not exploring the themes they gave him, but why would a show that was designed for macho Red State Republicans ever want to take a look at bodily autonomy? Sam gets violated over and over again, and all he wants is to determine who and or what will be in his body all by himself, a fact that Dean repeatedly ignores. The show did Sam dirty because they did Jared dirty. Maybe Jensen was easier to work with, or maybe it was the fact that he tested better with audiences, but the writers basically sidelined Sam from Season 3 onwards. This is the Dean show and you better like it. Also, holy crap. Is your grammar and spelling that bad on purpose? I'm sorry you're so wrong, you're right that the show failed Sam but not in the way you mentioned. They failed Sam by not giving him his own personal arc or his friends, other enemies, and over time Sam just became bland. Let's go over what happened from season 6 onwards. Soulless Sam was meant to be responsible for Soulless Sam's actions. When Sam got his soul back Dean NEVER held what Sam did soulless against him, which Bobby did. As for season 8, the biggest gripe against him wasn't not looking for Dean it was that we NEVER saw him grieving. They could've easily done with what they did with Ruby and have a flashback showing Sam devastated and broken after Dean so we would care about his new relationship and get sympathy for him. But we never see that! Plus his relationship with Amelia wasn't well liked in general and Sam left her before Dean even got back. Also Sam didn't even seem that guilt ridden over Kevin. And no ,the show doesn't portray Sam completely in the wrong! Dean is shown to be in the wrong and apologizes for his attitude, so no, the writers aren't giving Dean a pass. Yes, Season 9 the writers did Sam dirty but not with the angel possession in that they didn't give Sam an arc at all and only one real centric episode. Cas & Crowley got way more story than Sam and Dean had several centric episodes included the funniest one in the season. In season 11 we actually get an arc for Sam that doesn't revolve around Dean and it's great! Him turning down Lucifer and not giving in to guilt and self-sacrifice was well written and something Sam overcame on his own. In that season Sam did nothing wrong. But here's where the problem occurred in season 12: they gave Sam an arc with the BMOL and a leadership role but there weren't enough episodes dedicated to it so it felt rushed. Also he had nothing going on with his own mother, Mary, when they brought her back which seriously rubbed fans the wrong way. Then it continued in season 13, they started something great with him and Jack but Jack left way too soon and after that season the two would rarely get time alone together. In season 14 they set Sam up as a leader with hunters under his command but they did nothing with it and just killed them all. You see my point Sam lacked any personal arcs. And then there's the other issue, the writers didn't really give Sam any friends in the series. Yeah, Sam had friends in college but we never really see them in the show. Think about it, nearly every reoccurring character either had a better relationship with Dean or had more screen time alone with him than Sam. And there are some you can't deny are more Dean's friends than Sam's like Gath, Jo, Benny, and Castiel. Even those who switch sides seemed to like Dean more because the writers made them that way ,like Victor Henrikson, Crowley, Cole Trenton, Arthur Ketch. Then there were the villains. In the Kripke era they did a good job giving the brothers shared opponents and their own like Meg, Gordon, Alister & Zachariah, minor bad guys but each had a rivalry with only one of the brothers. But after season 5 most of the villains seemed to only have rivalries with Dean or once again just more screen time with him, even Gadreel the angel who possessed Sam had more rivalry with Dean than him. That's probably why they kept brining Lucifer back cause the writers couldn't come up with any other foe to face him.
@@FunkyLittlePoptart My God you sound unhinged! Did you seriously retype my entire post because you hated my grammar? Who the hell does that?! Also I have heard from plenty of people complaining about Mary & Sam’s lack of development after they brought her back. Hell some fan like you said that Sam should be more resentful towards Mary, and I actually agree with that, it would’ve been a hell of lot better than what we got.
@@FunkyLittlePoptart I understand maybe correcting some grammar mistakes sometimes. But to say the person u are talking to is lazy and literally copy and paste their whole comment to fix their grammar (which wasn't even that bad in the 1st place) is a bit much and kind of rude.
Personally I think it’s because of Deans/Jensens stronger Acting compared to Jared (no shot to Jared because when he’s given stuff he SHINES like the early episodes and my all time favorite the church confessional of S8) in the later seasons that always have Dean Upfront and Jensens Stronger acting leads more to more inspiration from the writers and thus hinders Sam’s/Jareds writing and acting it’s like a Cycle; hope I’m making sense.
Sam never gave up when there were times where Dean wanted to give up, What about the time Sam saved Dean from the Mark of cain, or when Sam told Dean to keep fighting while Dean trapped Michael in his head? Sam was always the strongest brother he literally fought Lucifer in season 5 and went to hell and Literally SAVED THE WORLD but the series literally disregarded all of this. I'll always be a Sam boy.
I get where you’re coming from but I think the finale was an oddly full circle moment. The show started with Sam living a normal life with his girlfriend and while Dean’s final death definitely broke Sam a little eventually he managed to move on, get married and have a kid achieving a somewhat normal life (although it seemed he was still hunting or at least told his son about the supernatural so still being involved in some way). Sam kind of did get shoved aside probably because Jensen Ackles is simply a better actor. It doesn’t mean Jared was bad but Jensen Ackles is just a better actor in general especially for cw standard he’s probably the best actor they had aside from Joseph Morgan as Klaus in the Originals.
I’m sorry, when does the narrative support Dean letting Gadreel possess Sam? Sam calls him out on his bs, Kevin got killed because of it, and even Dean himself admits he shouldn’t have done it. Only Castiel tries to absolve Dean on his actions, and in doing so, acknowledges that it was a stupid thing to do.
you judged a show that was mostly a multiverse story. chuck even said that most of the adventures the boys went on were not even them. it was them from other parts of the multiverse. you want to know which episodes were actually canon, there is a wiki that explains it
You can tell that after season 5 they lean alot into spirits demons and angels as the show keeps heavy biblical references for the rest of the show, not mixing in windegos and other monsters as often, also the big drop off of the demon blood children always was jarring to me
I think the show did a great job portraying Dean as a complex character with many admirable virtues and painful flaws. I just wish they had done the same with Sam. I think that's why there's a bit of an obsession among fans of looking at scenes where Sam makes an offhand comment or a quirky expression--little scenes that flesh out his character just a bit. Because there's the kernel of a great character there, but the writers just didn't put the effort into Sam that they did into Dean. And I don't see why one or the other had to be "the" point-of-view character. We should have had some of each brother's point of view.
i disagree with your opinion on sams ending. throughout the show, sam expresses that he doesnt really like hunting. everytime he goes off by himself he trys to build a normal life, but is eventually brought back by his brother or by the local hunters recognizing him. Maybe it would have made more sense for sam to become a mentor and reasercher like bobby, but he doesnt really have anyone that needs mentoring thats already close to him. while it would have been cool, maybe even better, to see sam do something in line with this, the alternative being an apple pie life really isnt that bad. I feel like the show spent forever forcing sam to live a life that didnt really suit him. even when sam visits his old teacher, sam still seems dissatisfied with his descision to keep hunting. if i were to project i would say he feels shame in the way that he settled for a life that he never wanted. in my interpretation, (which is why sam is my favorite character) sam is extremely numb in a depressed way. he feels a need to stay with and help dean not only because of their codependent nature, but also because he wants to right all of the guilt he feels. i mean he litterally offs himself because he is so overcome with guilt and shame. so why would he want to stay in the hunter world, where he is constantly reminded of this? i dont think sam ever truely heals from his guilt at least by s15, so in my eyes the best way for him to ease the pain is to build something new and completely separate from his old life. he is a runner, after all
I love Sam but here is my theory people were not happy with him on Gilmore girls while his brother did nothing really bad on the another show or movies like Sam did which didn’t help his image and didn’t show him the best light Gilmore Girls that’s just my theory because when you go back look at the show Gilmore girls people really hate Sam character dean it’s just my theory
@@marocat4749 i don’t know you have to ask them the director and producer and writers but that a very good I’m interested in knowing that as well why is he being so bad
I don't really see why you're complaining about having the narrative in Dean's POV in the early seasons when it is still clearly Sam's story in s1-5, his dark descent into powers that can corrupt and his redemption in s5. If we take out Dean's POV in the story, where exactly does that leave Dean? He has no story in s1-5 except being Sam's brother and trying to push him to stay human. That's it. He doesn't get powers, he went to hell solely to save his brother who he grew up to always protect and prioritize even over himself. Dean was Sam's protector/caretaker from s1-5 and if it wasn't from his POV, he might as well have just been left out of the story altogether and just have it the Sam show.
they are talking about how, because the events of seasons 1-5 are framed from dean's POV, the show makes dean's biases the de facto biases for the audience; dean's perspective becomes the audience's perspective even though it is inherently flawed and hypocritical at most times. and instead of considering sam's POV, and taking into consideration why he acted the way he did, the majority of the audience just flat out agrees with dean's POV because it is THE POV. its why -in my opinion- the people who don't just write sam off after the first 5 seasons have a better read on both brothers than the people who DO write him off, because those people (usually samgirls) are actually paying attention to sam and his motivations.
1. Jared Padelecki looks almost like James Napier, the red ranger from Power Rangers Dino Thunder. 2. Both of their names start with ' J ' (Jared, James). 3. Both are of the same age (42). What a sheer coincidence ! 😌
I started watching Supernatural in 2005 at its inception and enjoyed the show. I automatically latched onto Sam and…tolerated Dean. I stopped watching after season 5 and recently picked up watching again to finish over a decade later. I now CANNOT STAND DEAN…I find him insufferable and loathsome. I despise how the audience is supposed to root for him as he overrides Sam’s autonomy (and not just Sam).
Alternate title: How the Supernatural writers began to hate Sam and worship Dean for whatever reason.
Facts!
This!
Shipping pandering plus many said that they cannot write woman and write dean is very easy, complexity of sam not so much
the way they dealt with his addiction, the repeated sexual assaults he faced and his hell trauma (wall crumbling) was HORRIBLE.
????? sexual assaults ?????
@@lewlavabra6811 not all of them are literal, but yeah. there's the actual sa's like when Becky (the in-universe book fan) literally kept harrassing him and went as far as to drug him with a love potion (which is straight up date rape), and that one guy who i won't remember the name cause i erased him from my memory who stole Sam's body (a common occurency on Samland) and used it to have sex (obviously without Sam's consent), and Sam's first ever offender, the ghost from the first episode who tried to physically force Sam to cheat on Jess, which he very much did not wanna do. and then there's the alluded sa's: Sam being force fed things while the people doing it say weirdly suggestive stuff (happened more than once), angel and demon possessions, especifically when it comes to Sam, being a kind of rape allegory that i'm really not sure if the writers intended but is definitely there (Lucifer saying he made Sam his bitch in every way, Meg being a fucking weirdo when she's possessing him, and, most egregious of all, Gadreel and Dean literally coercing Sam into saying yes to being possessed without knowing, and then gaslighting him about it for weeks). you can take these as you will, and you're free to your own interpretation, but the lack of bodily autonomy and agency is a very big part of Sam's character, and it ends up translating into more than one type of violence.
@@acewithoutafaceIn the episode with Becky she said she never got to consumate the marriage, she did violate him but never actually got to have physical relations
@acewithoutaface if it was real life he'd deserve it because of his ignorance, that humongous 5 head of his, ans his constant whiny DEEEEEAANNNN CRY
@@acewithoutafacethank you for taking time and clarifying it to that person. I'm tired of people denying it.
Sam has been my favorite since 2005. I get the love for Dean, but it felt like the writers frequently ignored Sam's perspective and pain. I really appreciate the way you articulated these points! I feel so validated! Love the video!
If you felt something for Sam, that's mean Director & Writers have done a great job.
What make a Character's powerful is how they continue to haunts us.
If a Character became exactly how we wanted them... then it would get boring.
I think don't think they turned on Sam. They probably put a Twist on Old Brother & Younger Brother's old tales of how Bigger Brother is always the bad one....
And in this in case, they made the Younger Brother to be a rebellion one which is not exactly a new concept.
However, the show itself fallen down hill for since Season 6 after they introduced Angels.
They really missed several chances to explore Sam’s PTSD, not only from childhood but from 100+ years in hell.
Was it really hundreds of years in hell? Time being slower in hell was never mentioned other than when talking about dean being tortured in hell. I'm guessing Alastair might have slowed time while torturing dean so they could break the first seal sooner. Also wasn't almost the entirety of season 7 about him having ptsd and hallucinating lucifer
@@Zanoladabwhy wouldn’t it be the same for Sam? Yes he was down there for over 100 years that’s why Castiel said his soul was mutilated while Dean’s wasn’t . They could’ve spent more than a season on his ptsd
@@Davidscomix remember when Sam went to hell to rescue Bobby? He had to be in there at least 1 hour tops which would be at few days or weeks in real life. And Dean definitely did not wait that long to save Sam. It has only been few hours irl as well
They did explore his ptsd... didnt you watch the show?
@AlexOlins-ly1yh i think people just wanted more Sam, and I think he had potential, but Dean was more entertaining and relatable in my opinion to be honest
5:49 In later seasons Dean not caring whether the world was destroyed as long as Sam was alright was treated as a good thing when it was actually selfish.
Yep totally agree the writing in the later seasons wasn't good
NGL, that part I loved. :p
its a litttle selfish but its mostly just having one of the greatest older brothers ever one who would die for you and sacrifice anything and everthing so that you live
@@Lil_Wolf231exactly, that’s the point
As a big brother myself, I understand that mentality. As much as we butt heads, I'd happily go to jail if someone hurts him. He's just a brother being protective
You explained all my feelings about how Sam was treated throughout the show so perfectly. It absolutely breaks my heart how they treated his character, because he had so much untapped potential to be such an amazing character. Which he still is, but he was never allowed to reach his true potential.
I know Dean’s the Fonzie of the show. The guy with the leather jacket, cool car, a ladies man, who loves classic rock and has years worth of daddy’s issues.
But I always found Sam’s story way more compelling. He felt like an outcast, like he didn’t belong anywhere and that there was something inherently wrong with him.
I see so much of myself in Sam and to see the show punished him over and over again because he wasn’t acting the way Dean (the normal one) wanted him to act, kind of made me feel like I was being punished too for not being what others wanted me to be.
It was like the show I love was alienating me for just existing and for my love of Sam. I wish I could just give him the biggest hug and tell him all the wonderful things I thought about him, since the show refuses to give him a break or feel any sort of validation.
I`m a Samgirl forever, despite the writers desicion to treat Dean as a perfect hero.. Really nice to see some support for Sam!
How the HELL was Dean written as a "perfect hero"?! Seriously I'm a Dean fan and I have never thought of him as perfect and the writers never treat him as such, in fact in the later season their extremely hard on him, always making him the one suffering the most but making the most mistakes. It's fine if you like Sam and I agree the writers did him dirty but why are you making it sound like Dean had it easy?
@@patrickmcguire7896 Sorry I clearly misspoke.
@@patrickmcguire7896 I don’t mean to speak for the OP, but imo Dean is the “perfect hero” in comparison to Sam. We’re talking about the narrative intent of the writers. Dean is always right and even when he is wrong the narrative gives context that makes the audience understand his motivations even if we disagree. Dean gets grace. Wheareas Sam is framed as selfish.
@@BrightEyes24 Thank you. English is my second language, so it can be hard to express myself properly sometimes.
@@solveigelisabethhenne1739 🙂 No problem!
bro as someone who has been in the trenches fighting on behalf of sam winchester on every site from twitter to tumblr to facebook for YEARS, it is so so heartening to see a whole comment section of people who agree with the message of this video and care about sam as his own character, and not just dean winchester's brother. thank you for this video! and to all you folks in the comments, you are my people 💜
You also missed the part where the show gave Dean more of a personality than Sam. For start like 70% of the humor in this show was made by something Dean said or something done at his expense Yellowfever for example. But we learned more about Dean's hobbies and interest more than we ever did with Sam. Dena loves Rock & Roll, and cars but is also a western buff, watches hospital dramas, loves movies and cartoons like Scooby Doo, and he got into LARPing real fast. Then there was the fact that more comedic supernatural things happened to Dean. Like him acting like a dog, him getting old, him turning into a kid, him losing his memory, him getting put under a love spell by some witches. Sure there was stuff like that that happened to both brothers but only three to Sam alone, him getting bad luck, him swapping bodies with a teen and him turning into Justin. And the only hobbies I can think Sam had was True Crime obsession which they didn't play with that much. Point is the writers kept adding thing to Dean to make people like him but it felt like they ignored giving Sam some of that attention, but they also gave Dean plenty of grief in the latter season, it's not like he got off Scott free
its such a shame honestly
Sam definitely had more personality. Sure Dean had more humor and connection with side characters but Sam is more nuanced and complex. But yeah they barely touched on it😊
It's almost as Dean really is Micheal the archangel every one loves and and focused on and Sam is Lucifer the fallen arch angel that is hated and and ignored
I look at it differently. Sam is basically an antagonist as well as a protagonist. He very frequently makes bad decisions after being drawn back into hunting. These decisions move the story along and show Sam as an increasingly broken character. He never really recovers throughout the 15 seasons. In the end, though, he's the one that finds something more to life after his brother, you know.
Dean, on the other hand, is just a protagonist. He reacts to events, and even if he screws up, it's almost always Sam related. He doesn't break as easily and is resilient even after everything he went through. Eventually, he ends up broken in a slightly different way and is ready for it all to be over. He's fully fleshed out character wise because he's the protagonist, and he has much more living in the moment than Sam.
Sam isn't fleshed out as much because for much of the series, he's basically unable to enjoy anything at all. His life he dreamed of having is gone. He is used by demons. His whole world is collapsing 1 new bad event or choice at a time. His side is a downward spiral, and every time, it looks like he has hope events throw him back into that descent. There isn't really a way to flesh him out that wouldn't feel hollow and empty. It's why I think they gave him the happier ending over Dean. Dean was rather content with hunting and eventually death at the hands of some monster. Sam never was he always wanted more and always had to force himself with different reasons to continue being a hunter even when it looks like he's getting used to the life and accepting it.
I just finished the show (for the first time) today and I felt that way the entire time!! I love Dean a ton but I’ve liked Sam more and as I was watching some of those super funny episodes like the one where Dean becomes a dog or a kid again I couldn’t help but think “Man, Dean gets some of the most funny and creative concepts for episodes..” and it made me upset/disappointed 😭 and yeah, Sam gets funny episodes too but the ratio is insane to me. Not only when it comes to comedy but the CREATIVITY of certain episodes.
I could make the argument of my love for Mystery Spot while it is super funny as a viewer…. In reality Sam was being traumatized the entire episode having to watch his literal brother die repeatedly :/ I wanted more harmless and funny episodes for him 😞
Wow, thank you for this insightful analysis. I have felt the same way about Sam's characterization. He was the most sympathetic character of the series (I thought), yet he is often villainized by fans while Dean is praised as a sacrificial hero. Sam was abused by so many other characters, including Dean, who sometimes emotionally abused him and was very controlling like their father. While Dean had memories of a normal childhood and of their mother, Sam had no such memories to cling to. However, he was criticized by his father and brother for wanting a home and a life beyond hunting. By the time he was six months old, his autonomy had been robbed of him and that was a continuing theme throughout his life. Despite being fed demon blood as a baby, he managed to be caring and compassionate toward others. Sam's analysis of Dean was spot on. Dean held so tightly onto Sam for his own good, not Sam's. While I love both characters, Sam was treated badly throughout the series.
I’m a Dean girl, and I love him, but I’ve always noticed how cruel Dean could be, especially in the later seasons. His cruelty, particularly toward Sam, Castiel, and Jack, became more blatant, but the show didn’t really address it properly. While it was acknowledged at times, it was never treated with the seriousness it deserved throughout the series. I don’t think this aspect of his character should’ve been removed, though. It’s interesting and realistic that Dean would have these flaws. However, the show often portrayed him as a sorrowful traumatized hero, with everyone else just kind of existing in the background of his story.
so true, it's frustrating
it was the dabb era from 12-15. thats where everything went super downhill and everyone was stripped of what made them them. i absolutely hate jack and it was so obvious jack was just a self insert for dabb (if kripke was pretty much chuck, then dabb made himself jack) and the show became super hard to watch. everything and everyone's personalities and achievements were retconned in favor of dabb's new world building.
Season 4 is where I always say the Dean train took off. The holier than thou complex Dean gets in this season is unbearable and it continues for the rest of the series. Sam is sideline and depowered to the point he wasn't even necessary in the show.
Sam, along with Buffy Summers, and Smallville's Clark Kent, are my favorite characters of all time.
I really hated to see his character become what he did. When we got Soulless Sam tho... I was happy. Then they ruined it.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer is on the Tubi if you wanna rewatch.
Sam was definitely sidelined in season 4, but then he saved the world in season 5 even though Dean seriously doubted he could do it. Castiel actually had the most faith in Sam when it came to overcoming Lucifer's control. Cas is another character the writers nerfed to make Dean look stronger and smarter. Dean was not that smart to be honest, and there are many times throughout the show where Dean was proven right, but it made zero sense. The writers tried so hard to make us believe that Dean was more intelligent than Sam, who managed to get a full ride to Stanford to pursue law all while hunting monsters, and Castiel, an angel who was thousands of years old and knew things about the universe most humans could never comprehend. Yeah, okay.
It's after s5 which made sam sidelined becuz yk the story was actually supposed to end at s5 so yeah
Eric Kripke, the original creator and showrunner, had always intended a five season arc, so Dean and Sam saved the world and…The End. Sam sacrificed himself for Dean and watching him live the apple pie life was supposed to be it. UPN/WB wanted it to continue because it was a cash cow so it did. Without Eric, btw.
I mean I guess if you literally went to hell and got pulled out of it by an angel of God, I'd be holier than thou too
you missed a major issue in Season 3 - the writer's strike meaning less episodes. There is 6 less episodes to this season to see where Sam could have dealt with everything going on.
Yes, and the strike absolutely effected the storyline because Sam was supposed to use his powers to save Dean from Hell.
I just watched Supernatural for the first time recently and wondered if I was supposed to like Dean. Other than a handful of times throughout the series I hated his character. There were so many times where Sam would do something it would be treated as the wrong thing to do only for Dean to do the exact same thing and it's suddenly the right thing. The one that immediately comes to minds is the monster girl that saved Sam by I think killing her own mother. Dean kills her because she killed someone to save her son. The rest of her life she ate dead people. The very next season another monster suddenly gets a pass because he saved Dean in purgatory.
Well Benny proved himself. He didn’t feed on humans and the only time he actually hurt someone if I remember correctly was Martin but Martin was really begging for it. The woman, Annie I think actually killed 4 people to save her kid. And while I understand why she did it she still killed 4 people.
I have so many things I want to say, or can't figure out how to properly say it. However, the main reason Sam has little autonomy over his body is due to Dean. Sam is resurrected in season 2 after Dean makes a demon deal. When Sam has his soul restored, Dean has Death put up a wall so Sam can't remember his torture; a decision Sam isn't even given the opportunity to make on his own. Sam is then taken over by Gadreel after Dean manipulates him during their little mind link. Don't even get me started on how Dean scolds Sam for not looking after Kevin, only for Dean to end up being the cause of Kevin's death because he let Gadreel take over Sam's body. Before that, Sam is willing to sacrifice himself when he's in the middle of curing Crowley, only for Dean to convince him to stop that too.
Personally, if I've learned anything from the show, it's that Sam is a much stronger character emotionally. We see him grieve the loss of Dean several times, but he also goes on to accept his brother's death more than once too. Dean often resents Sam for this because he can't imagine living in a world without Sam in it.
From the very beginning, we knew Sam wanted his freedom. He wanted to escape their father, a life of hunting, and do his own thing. Whenever Dean died, he grieved, but then he also did his own thing. He accepted it. Sam doesn't need Dean in the same way Dean needs Sam because Dean had it ingrained in him at such an early age to protect Sam. He gets his validation from what he sees as protecting those he cares about, even though he ends up hurting them further with his selfishness.
And as much as I didn't care for the finale very much, I think it kind of makes sense. Dean can't imagine a life without Sam, but Sam can imagine having one without Dean. Him looking at the car after he gets older isn't him being a miserable old man. I think it's him reminiscing about the past and missing his brother; the way many loved ones would do exactly the same.
I agree with you completely. I think Dean resented Sam for being able to live without him. He wanted Sam to live, but on his terms, and I think he kind of suffocated his brother.
Finally a mature take.
Couldn't agree with you more.
@@jaimedritt4622agree - dean was very codependent on sam and saw him as his posession...
While I agree what you said I only want to mention that Dean never got the chance to learn that he is also important. Dean was only loved if he would do exactly what John wanted. Be a good soldier and take care of Sammy. The time where Sam ran away Dean said that their Dad was awful to Dean.
His whole self worth was linked to Sam.
Sam on the other hand didn’t have that as much because he didn’t have the same expectations put on him as Dean. Dean made sure of that. Dean tried to be not only a brother but a mother and a father too. That is why Sam always could imagine his life without Dean. I mean isn’t it that the point of being a parent? You cannot live without your child but your child can live without you.
I’m just saying that Dean never had a chance to not be completely broken and in the end also angry and beaten down because his entire life he had to make sure Sam wasn’t.
There's many reasons why I liked Dean less and less as the seasons progressed and the MANY sins he committed against Sam without ever even feeling a little bad for them are certainly a big reason...
Also Deans faults arent called out, nor is he growing and maturing like Sam does. Sam aside getting Victimized just gets better as character, and Dean becomes the worst by never doing that. Or regressing again. But thats never called out, and ifg he bad, funny, Sam, ominous soundtrack.
@@marocat4749 agreed, those are 2 more reasons why my dislike of Dean grew with every passing season.
@@Ofra8191-just wrote the same comment...dean was very negative character in last 3 seassons... i loved jack/sam relationship so much for example - dean was a complet abuser there but never was called out ( i remember how people got angry on sam bc of benny - while sam had all right of tge world for his feelings, but were ok with trashy dean )
@daidreen7452 I completely agree
11:39 Classic CW. Thinking acknowledging and joking about the flaws in their writing but not fixing them justifies those flaws.
OH MY GOD THANK YOU!! My sister & I always joked because despite being the oldest (and while still understanding the "responsibility" Dean felt) there was always something that drew me to Sam and I could never put it into words, & this video is helping me realize that I think it was just how well-written his character was (as someone who loves deeply complex characters) & yet so egregiously underutilized. He was always the scapegoat for when something bad happened, even if his action had the best of intentions. There was a complexity to his character (the juxtaposition of consuming demon blood/addiction but with the motivation of trying to keep from killing the humans the demons possessed, which Dean was pretty merciless about) that always felt untapped & it was so frustrating because it grounded the show in this ugliness of what hunters faced while demonstrating Sam's desire to still be "good" amongst so much ugliness. As a Sam girl, this video is so validating, lol. But also, this is just a great dive into Sam & the show!
I saw it a little different. Sam was portrayed as the selfLESS brother. Dean was portrayed as the selfISH brother who only occasionally learned his lessons, but then forgot those lessons very quickly. I've known several people like this in real life.
This is exactly how I've always seen it, as well.
Yes while Sam should have more focus or be more the mainish, as he actually grew and matured. Unlike Dean.
I saw Sam be as boring from S6 onwards. S1-5 I found him rather sanctimonious and not that appealing. Dean, all the way. Sam portrayed the “victim card” too much for me.
@@v.p.7828he never portrayed the “victim card”. The guys always blaming himself for everything but he just doesn’t talk about it with Dean much. I mean sometimes he lets Dean know how he feels that there’s something wrong with him
I've always been a Samgirl, and the way the show treated Sam caused me to stop watching. The Dean show didn't interest me the way the show about the brothers did. Every opportunity to diminish Sam's role and feelings was taken, and my interest waned.
I think that many people felt it this way and therefore the viewership went down... nobody was interested in a dean show... for me the most interesting and actually 1 of not so many likable features of dean was his love for sam and brothers dynamic... deans dictatorship or his dynamic with other characters were very boring and showed actually his worst feautures...i pretty much disliked dean in later seassons... abusive, selfish, whiny...
@@daidreen7452 Exactly! Dean's character became really boring and flat in later seasons, even Demon Dean.
I've done nothing but whine about Sam vs Dean for many years and it has fallen on deaf ears. When Sam lost his soul...TBH...I didn't want him to get it back, mainly because of Dean. Dean, to me, didn't deserve to have that Sam. Dean is a hypocrite. Let's face it. If Sam had gone to purgatory, made friends with a vampire named Benny, how do you think Dean would have been about that? Dean expected Sam just to accept it and shut up about it. Sam, on the other hand, would have been dragged through the mill with Dean looking Sam in the face saying something like: If I didn't know you, I would hunt you. Gee, does that sound familiar? Dean was never really called out on his BS and hypocrisy like he should have been.
So... Umm... Can we be friends?
@@linastolen8752 I'm thinking about starting a Sam appreciation club! LOL! Perhaps that is what my first content creation should be about...how SPN fans made Sam Winchester the Anti-Hero/Hero and Dean Winchester the Charlatan.
I feel like during the Kripke era, the flip was quite clever. I think we were *supposed* to start to mistrust Sam, and his impending, emerging "monster", and this happened amazingly well through the focus on Dean's reactions. We were shown Sam's story and his battles with his destiny clear as day, but the narrative sympathy for him just isn't there. Sam was labelled wrong by everyone. But the end result was - Sam was right. He saved people. He killed Lilith. He sacrificed himself to save the world. But this monstrous idea of him stuck, for every side character, and even with fans. In any fan discussion you get "Sam's the worst brother." It led to Dean being forgiven for things - "Yeah it was selfish, but I'm ok with it." Whereas all of Sam's choices were labelled "selfish" and he was punished for them for eternity.
got back into spn recently and truly forgot how weird so many people's perspectives on the show are that they don't notice sam's narrative, like, at all... spn is one of my favorite shows but sam winchester will probably be my favorite character in ANYTHING for forever, haha
I might've missed this in the video, but also what annoyed me to no end was that they established early on (in the freaking pilot!) that the brothers knew how to fight. Not bar brawl fighting, proper "i know how to get out of being mounted and put someone in an arm bar" legit skills. Then eventually that became "Giant Moose gets knocked out with one punch every fight while Dean takes on everyone" fight scenes and if that wasn't already insulting and unrealistic, the amount of head trauma they had Sam endure its a miracle he didn't develop CTE.
everytime Dean does condemn everything to save Sam is always seen as good and okay, but everytime Sam saves Dean they show that is a dumb decision made out of selfish reasons and there fore a bad thing that Sam saves Dean
I started Supernatural around the beginning of Covid lockdowns, quickly became a fan, rewatched so many times over the years since it ended. Enjoyed your take and pretty much agree, but just can’t help myself overlooking the many issues with the show. It’s something I keep revisiting like an old friend. Would absolutely love to hear more of your takes on this show though!
I love Supernatural, especially the Kripke era, and I agree that Sam took a backseat to Dean's perspective during a lot of seasons. I wonder if Kripke or the writer/s in charge found his traits more relatable or were older siblings or something
I think there's an interesting metaphor there of how when Sam went back into the family business he was treated as the lesser protagonist in the story, and when he gets more of the focus again during Season 5, he makes the ultimate decision of saying yes and leaping into hell to save the world.
Thank you for making this video. Being active in the spn fandom, the hatred towards sam is still rampant. I understand why Dean is the fan fave. But I think the Sam hatred is so stupid. The show and the writers didn't give justice to I think one of the best and most interesting characters in fiction overall. This man endured a century in hell and still managed to be a kind human being despite all the trauma. Thank you for giving voice to the complaints us Sam fans have been screaming for years to the ignorant deaf ears of dean fans and destiel fans
I assumed the actor playing Sam was happy to move on to Walker Texas Ranger simply so he wasn't knocked down/out in every fight like in the later Supernatural seasons. Oh and he wasn't included in the prequel at all. Go figure.
Cool video. Of course it was easy to see how Sam's perspective was shoved aside along with his agency and the character himself for the post Swan era. I might even have seen signs of it in season 4, but I didn't realize that it started way back in season two.
Ooof, yeah. I'm rewatching the show with a friend right now and we both just can't stop marvelling at the tonal whiplash that occurs constantly, with Sam being consistently the more emotionally mature of the brothers but the narrative backing Dean over Sam. At least in s1-5 you can argue that this was the writers (albeit clumsily) attempting to pave the narrative leading to the Michael/Lucifer showdown that was the original show's main arc. But after the show got re-upped past s5 it just limps along like a directionless zombie and Sam's character gets ground into the pavement. But hey, at least we get 9 seasons of actually sometimes astonishingly good meta humor sprinkled in amongst the dreck? XD
I agree with so many things you say. Saying post kripke is sequel-coded is so true
I love my Sammy❤ Never realized until rewatching earlier seasons that everybody favored Dean. I love Dean but the show sometimes did my Sammy wrong.
Only dean gets to call him that. 🤣🤣
Thanks! Going to check out some episodes of this show for our episodes list!
As a Sam girl I will always have issues with how the show, after season 5, would set up something interesting for Sam only for them to squash it.
Part of me felt that since Dean became more popular the producers decided to let Dean be the main hero. You can see how he was mostly the one to take down almost every big bad in the following seasons.
To this day I will always hate the decision that had Dean be the one to kill Lucifer. In my opinion Lucifer should have always been Sam's to kill. They had history and tension between them for many seasons and Lucifer was one of the main sources for Sam's trauma. It would have been so rewarding for Sam and the fans to finally see Sam but an end to him but nope have to let big brother Dean steal the show and do it. And yes I get it that only an archangel with the stupid archangel blade could kill another archangel. I still feel like that writing choice was stupid and used as an excuse for Dean to kill Lucifer.
Overall the first 5 seasons were great because each season was planned and was connected. Each season was like a bread crumb to a bigger picture. This is what the later seasons lacked. No thought out plan, just keep chucking out one big bad after the other.
They let DEAN kill Lucifer??? I stopped watching SPN from season 11 and now this makes me feel even more confident in my decision. The intertwined fate of Sam and Lucifer ending in such a way is just so disappointing.
Sam was a character I related too the most, I have a younger brother just like Dean and I've had people tell me how cool that is to have a brother Dean coded. He's a good brother but my God when you live through it it's not cool.
I wanted an entire finale episode dedicated to Sam's life post Dean like those moments of his life just skimmed over without much though. Jared is an amazing actor but it's like the writers were Jensen gets the ratings so lets tell it from Dean's P.O.V. he's the main character now. Jensen also great actor, but Sam was the character for why I kept watching.
My brain processed the video title as something supernatural made Sam Winchester turned on (aroused). The content was completely off topic 😂
@@speca 🤣🤣 Love it!
Ruby definitely turned him on.
oh my god op this is AMAZING… exactly what a very tiny subset of the fandom have been talking about on tumblr for years. comment section feels like therapy
I agree with you. I'll admit I didn't see it in this perspective before but now I see you're right. They did do Sam dirty. It was all about Dean. How much he loved his brother, how much he'll do anything for his brother, how he was always there for his brother, how he was basically the hero.
FINALLY SOMEONES ADDRESSING THIS 😭😭😭
THIS WAS PERFECT! thank you so much for this essay it was so needed like no one really talks about this on UA-cam T-T thank you so so much for actully talking about sam's trauma and how the spn narrative favors dean so so much! subscribing thank you so so much for bringing dean's abuse of sam
Dean was the furthest thing from perfect. If anything he was portrayed as a more flawed, volatile character than Sam who was more emotionally stable and mature. Dean was older but not as smart as Sam, he grew up a hunter but he was not as skilled as Sam, and he wasn’t even the favorite of their father even though he stayed with him when Sam left for college.
Part of the appeal of Dean is how broken and second fiddle he is. He was forced to grow up a single parent to his younger brother while his dad was out being a superhero, so it makes sense that he would be over protective. Because he wasn’t raised in a stable household and never made any connections, and his only goal in life was to protect Sam. He would do terrible things with the best of intentions, and with the knowledge he had. That was the whole arc for Dean. I really wish it ended at season 5, because the story for both brothers ended perfectly right there. That, coupled with Jensen Ackles beautiful performance, Dean becomes viewed as more of a sympathetic antihero.
Thank you. The take I have been seeing in the comments and/or etc. that Dean was somehow portrayed as perfect or whatever. Is very odd. Like u said, he is very flawed, and far from perfect, and has to work through stuff.
Also really like the rest of this comment.
@@Dragon_Aoi Thanks! I get the frustration with Sam getting attention taken away, but a lot of his conflicts were external.
@@Dragon_AoiNobody said he was perfect and nobody is hating but there’s some apparent favoritism with most storylines being centered around him while missing opportunities to develop Sam more and show him overcome his feelings of being a freak. Also most of the thing Dean does is forgiven and not brought up much while Sam is condemned. Again, both of the brothers are the best but the writers screwed up
You kinda proved the videos point. We show gives you ALL of this context and Information about Dean but Sam doesn't get nearly the same amount of care or character development.
@@wbrodie55 I’m not denying Dean received more time and development. Because he’s such an imperfect character he was more engaging to many people.
I didn't watch after season 5. I was busy.
Have to say as someone who lost my 12yo son to cancer and lost a sibling and parent as a young adult, I was frustrated with the Winchster's failing to learn anything. Maybe it's easier in real life when you don't have a way to bring them back. You don't get to sacrifice yourself for loved ones. But they couldn't learn from their fathers death how shitty that move was? Really? I thought at some point they'd learn to lean into pain. If they're so tough, why couldn't any of them learn this?
They usually do but just not when it comes to each other, they mature in the final season
Sam did. He had to let go of Dean in the end. He's always been stronger in that sense. And it was beautifully portrayed.
I loved the video and the point of view but drastically disagree, I agree they didn’t explore Sams point of view really at all! And leaving that 6 months out was such a wasted opportunity. However! I remember watching it when it first came out and feeling SO bad for Sam, over and over again. I kept remembering that none of this was his fault but he is being manipulated and force by circumstances into being a lucifer in this story AND I hated Ruby! But I think it was perfectly done to show Sam becoming a man and Dean having to come to terms with Sam being his own man who makes his own choices, not the kid he has to look after anymore. I think that’s a huge part of life which has to be developed over time and Dean ignoring his feeling in prior seasons would have milder Sam’s action. It’s a very normal coming of age story.
I applaude you for being of the few that could see beyond Dean's POV, but through the years I've met so many people who Hate on Sam for what he did, even it wasn't compleatly his fault. He had part of it, but not all that happened in S4 was am being bad just cause
But I do like how they connected the first episode with the finale…”Yeah, but I don’t want to.” 😭
I can't say I cared for supernatural as much as I've cared for other pieces of media, I watched it, certainly, enjoyed parts of it, hated other parts of it. This comment is mostly for algorithm points.
my head cannon is that it was Chuck's way of punishing him for straying from the path of the hunter. A petty god holding a grudge well past the expiration date.
This is why I will always be team Sam. On re-watch I can see how the focus shifted in favour of Dean. Its a shame that they let him fall to the waste side. I agree with others about how as time went on we got less of Sam's back story and more about what Dean gave up as a child to look after Sammy. I'm glad i tapped out at season 11. There's only so much you can have them both blame the other for something before it gets tiresome. Great video :D
I’ve seen all of Supernatural, and I just don’t think it’s worth rewatching. The longer it went the more it felt like the storylines were just running themselves in circles.
I agree. Sam was very much ignored but Dean was truly a Gary Sue and pretty much seen as the broken bird while Sam was a blamed victim
The show is worth rewatching, though not every episode and you can sure as hell skip the last season.
@@midnightharvest3065 Dean was clearly the writers favorite from Season 6 and onwards. But to say that he's a Gary Sue is wrong on so many levels. A Gary/Mary Sue typically never has to struggle too much to overcome their obstacles and everyone just instantly likes them. Mind you im talking about in-universe. I think we can both agree that from start to finish, both brothers got kicked in the nuts (quite literally on more than one occasion) so hard, so many times that the Gary Sue trope is the one thing that would never apply to either one of them.
Hey, so this is a really well done audio essay and breakdown. Really cool job. Great work.
I don’t know exactly how it started playing, I was listening to “Guntuber” breakdowns. Then this auto-played.
But it reminded me of how disappointed I became with the series. I know for me the more angelic and Judeo-Christian stuff stated to lose my attention after like season 3, 4, or 5ish. The psychic angle, and the way the writers were turning on the character of Sam in favor of Cas and Dean. It was unfortunate. I for one thought the idea of two brothers bonded by past trauma (family, “work”, abandonment, fear) was a great sub-context tool. It sucks it was turned and instead of two brothers backing each other and growing better, it became “which one’s going to mess things up this time” over and over again. Post-season 5 is basically unwatchable for me, even if it did have some fun or interesting aspects. The intro of a third brother, an adopted (kind of?) brother, and an eventual betrayal of the two co-lead characters. It’s a master-class on how to let pride ruin a great deal of promise. (The writing, I mean). I use to say “I wish it could have stayed focused on monster or even myth hunting” but that was all thrown out. Don’t get me started on the Men of Letters shenanigans. 🙄
It was really disappointing how they took an extremely nuanced character of Sam and essentially turned him into a plot point and prop.
I have a theory about why this happened. I think its two-fold, and comes down to some realizations that I think happened in the writers room during season one. I think they fully intended at the beginning of the show for Sam to be the POV character and Dean to be a supporting, Han Solo-style character. But then, as they were making season one, I think they realized 2 things. 1. While Jared is charming and competent, Jensen is all around the better actor. He has more range, is more natural and believable, and he tends to have more and better chemistry with a wider range of fellow actors. And 2. I think people like Kripke have a hard time identifying with - and therefore liking and writing for - characters they think are too straightforwardly heroic. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree, but it's a common opinion that morally upright characters are less interesting than morally gray ones, and I'm betting that Kripke, and likely a few of the other writers, started to find Dean more fun and interesting as a character, especially once they started digging into the implications of what was on the page and stopped treating him as the one-note Han Solo. I was watching the show as it aired, and you could definitely feel the shift as the show decided it liked Dean better, and being in fandom in the early days, we talked about why we thought this happened. And this was what a lot of us thought.
exactly this !! especially point no. 1
@@mariesilver6103 I completely agree!
I wholeheartedly disagree that Jensen is a better actor and has more range than Jared.
@@bean9619 You’d be in the minority lol
@@mariesilver6103 , Jensen Ackles was only a perfect actor whenever it came to his role as Jason Todd, (the Red Hood), and Jared and Misha Collins are better actors than Jensen Ackles is.
This video is spot on, nice work. I mean yeah, the writers did clearly have a Dean bias even in season 5 it's repeatedly stated that Sam started the Apocalypse by breaking the final seal but it's like everyone forgot that Dean broke the first one. The number of times that Dean would be judgmental of Sam over something while committing acts that were the same or worse. I honestly lost count. I think the writers had a favorite, and it wasn't Sam. It was a disservice to Sam's character but also Dean's as well, Dean's character arc was supposed to be the overprotective older brother who eventually learns to respect his younger brother isn't a child anymore, but it's like they repeated that same storyline over and over.
I have three ideas as to why Sam was focused on less as the show went on:
1) Sam was originally pushed to the side because of the writers strike during the end of season 3. 6 episodes had to be cut which caused the season to shorten and end with Dean going to hell when it was originally going to end with Sam finding a way to save him. The writers didn’t want use season 4 to continue season 3’s plot so they created Castiel as a way to start the season with Dean already being saved. As we now know Cas ended up being a fan favorite and his storyline ties with Deans so Sam stepped back a bit whenever Deans plot happened. It was also stated by Misha that Cas and Sam hardly had scenes together because Jared would always play around which caused delays. Sam definitely got less development but I think at least for season 3/4 it was because the writers had to adapt to the new changes to the plot.
2) There were more interesting plots to have with Dean and fans felt more sympathy for him because of their upbringing. There’s been multiple episodes that showed how he had to take a parental role for Sam and while they both suffered Sam had a bit of a less traumatic childhood because Dean sacrificed his. Dean even refused to go to a group home and went back to his abusive father just so Sam wouldn’t be alone. Bobby had a soft spot for Dean because he was aware of how he stepped up for Sam there was an ep where Bobby accidentally revealed to Dean that he was his favorite and I think that also mirrored how a lot of fans felt.
3) Fans have speculated that Jensen was just easier to work with and even Jared fans can acknowledge Jensen was a better actor or at least took it more seriously. Jensen and Misha have said multiple times that Jared would always play pranks and as I said before Jared played around so much that it caused Cas and Sam to have little scenes together. Jared played so many pranks on Misha that Jensen even said in a con that Jared went too far once so he actually went to Misha’s trailer to apologize to him and forced Jared to as well. Obviously I don’t know if the crew actually started disliking Jared but when you have a very tight schedule and a deadline for episodes it might have been it’s easier to just give the guy that’s causing a ruckus less screen time.
Supernatural is Sam's story told trough Dean's perspective
At the end of the day, The series Started with Sam and it ended with Sam
I never really heard this put to words, but yes. It always did bother me when I was watching season 4. How much they villainized him. It isn't a dynamic I believe was a bad idea. On the contrary; it reminded me as a kid of my own dynamic with my cool older sister. I do think that's why I am and always will be a Sam girl, because I related. And thus, the mistreatment by the narrative, while Dean gets tearful rants about Hell and torture, really hurt to me.
To be honest, it's not that much the lack of agency or the fact that Dean often makes decisions for Sam that bothers me. I didn't expect the charaters to be flawless, or the story to be politcally correct. I actually enjoyed them being messy, codependent and putting each other first. If anythging, its the fact that after s5, they take any opportunity to undermine Sam as a hero, in his love for Dean, even in his capacity to be the more sympathetic of zhe two. How could Mystery Spot Sam not go looking for his brother in s8? They never gave an opportunity to Sam to actually save Dean's life, to die for him. In the end, while Dean dies a hero, Sam is given the apple pie life which automatically denies him his hero status, How can a man who foufht toe to toe with Lucifer himself stop being a hunter? (By the way, shall we talk of the fact that he is even denied killing his archinemesis, Lucifer?). Sam's arc as intended by Kripike was that of the reluclant hero who ends up saving the World and dying as the greatest hero of all. But in s15 Sam just goes back to his old life, as if 15 years of a hunter life hadn't changef him at all. What bothers me is that the writers didn't respect the codes of their own genre, which was an epic, a mytholohical story, a tragedy. The kind of story that requires symetrie and ultimate drama and where the heroes die at the end. This was the story of two brothers and their undying love for each other. If you put one above the other, you end up ruining your story. Thankfully, Jared served his character so well, that many times he compensated for the poor writing.
YEEESSS!!! OMG!!
I have always been a Sam!Girl and you hae no idea how much I had debated and disccuss with fans trying to make them understand my boy. But some people's hatres towards S4 Sam in particular is so sad.
And even though I don't mind Dean being a POV and the Story revolving around Sam (since that was the main dynamic from the get go) Sam still had his space, but then Dean became too much of a POV as much as a protagonist what lead to Sam being left behind and in later season he was extremly put forgotten. I Specially still can't forgive the writer for making Dean so much of a father figure and main influence to Jack when Sam had the most in common with him and also had the most empathy and sympathy.
The three Sam, Dean and Cas could have been somewhat of father figures, but the level of focus in Dean always annoyed me...
You pointed out some of sa,e point I've seen with someone else years ago, and is still true.
One of the biggest things holding me back from loving supernatural is how they take away Sam’s agency and autonomy. They never treat Sam with any respect and Dean is always treated as the “perfect” brother and he never respects Sam’s bodily autonomy and I hate it. I loose the first five seasons but they still don’t fully respect Sam and his storylines are really never treated with respect. Also the Winchesters are so unhealthy and I really think they should have left each other long ago, they are so codependent it hurts. The ending really sucks and so does the seasons post 1-5.
I hated when they kind of just got rid of Sam's Powers after like season2 or 3? I guess I mean after the episode where a bunch of the other psychic children are killed (RIP Andy.). I get Supernatural was supposed to end after that but they could of at least made Sam's powers actually cool instead of making him just a living exorcism machine. He seemed to be able to learn telekinsis so why not make him because the best of all the Psychic children by having every power then take it away.
YES FINALLY THANK YOU MISS THANK YOU SO MUCH, IVE BEEN SAYIN THIS FOR YEARS
Excellent video the show definitely forgot to treat sam like a protagonist in the show the series should had ended in season 5 even though I did enjoy parts of season 6 and the Carver era of supernatural even though i love dean sam deserved better thanks for showing that even during the kripke era he was pushed aside at times
So thankful that there are more people with normal iq watching spn who see the huge bias from the show writers... sam was such a great character but his trauma was almost not explored while we saw dean whining about some stupidity ( from daddy/mommy issues to his anger issues, abuse and jealousy) in each seasson or even castiel setting his hurt after freeing luci and watching tv while being posessed ( canon insane as castiel as well posessed a body- not him but the body was posessed) on tge same level as hurt sam gad to feel after being tortured for over a year in tge hell cage...
I have conflicting feelings about this video essay. And not in a negative light because it’s actually made really well and has some really good points.
I am a Dean Girl through and through. And while I agree that Sam lost some agency, I would say it became a problem in more later seasons as opposed to early seasons. Sam loses his body autonomy at birth, with Azazel essentially bioengineering Sam to be Lucifers perfect vessel. When it becomes a problem, is when the writers use it to spotlight Dean more.
I see seasons 1-5 as a duo show, whereas 6-15 as more Dean centric with the Sam erasure ever apparent.
Dean is flawed and struggles with control. And Sam struggles with being controlled. I think Season 1-5 show this really perfectly. I have been able to see both sides of the argument with the demon blood storyline and how it correlates to addiction.
This probably makes little sense and I want to stress that I think this video is brilliant and nuanced, just have some disagreements with it
Dean's rage and hubris increases whereas Sam's character gets smaller and more traumatised, and as viewers we go with the louder character (actually loud and emotionally expressive).
But quiet, inward, more subtle Sam - he is never quite forgiven for his "mistakes" which weren't ever actually mistakes. Classic example being the end of the episode where Cas sends Dean back in time onto the submarine to grab something (as you do); meanwhile, poor Sam realises he is trapped in the bunker with his nemesis and abuser-for-centuries Lucifer. We're given, what, 3 seconds of Jared's terrified face as his reaction to that. And the last 10 minutes of the final act is Dean, pensively sitting outside.
???
Sam lives a life of penance and he never stands up for himself because he still thinks of himself as the reason for all this crap. He thinks he deserves the abuse he receives. In season 8 when he runs away reeling, for the first time removing himself from the demons and angels possibly thinking that might be the best thing, he was punished for that too.
Sam was always the better character and brother. But after Kripke.. nothing but Dean fan boys wrote the show
Facts
Yeah and half of the fandom Is just worshipping Dean and bashing Sam and talking nothing but crap about Sam for no reason, saying that Sam is a whiner, and a terrible brother which was not true
Always fascinated by people complaining about parts of a story like "Dean and John have a secret, taking away agency from Sam" as if it was a "mistake" when in fact it's kind of the point of the story. Lies, betrayals, lack of agency, are all themes of the series.
all themes just applied to sam? over and over and over with no real conclusion besides sam accepting this abuse? do you think that's good storytelling?
I think the problem isn't "Dean and John have a secret, taking away agency from Sam", it's that the show often, and particularly in the latter seasons, framed Dean (and John) as being in the right, or at least as this being the actions of good people just trying to do their best while glossing over how messed up their actions are. That makes it hard to feel like them messing up is the point of the story, when the story doesn't seem to view it as a mistake. It isn't that their actions are bad, it's that the narrative frames it as being good or at least understandable, so Sam should just forgive and forget, no matter how many times they violate his agency.
Also, as a Sam girl myself, it started to really frustrate me that Dean would do something and it was fine and good and understandable, then Sam would do the same thing and suddenly it's wrong and bad and we should punish Sam for it relentlessly. The problem isn't that they're both flawed people who mess up, it's the different framing Dean's and Sam's mistakes get in the story. It starts to feel hypocritical and like the show has nothing of substance to actually say about their actions, no narrative point. Unless the point is 'Dean good, Sam bad' but frankly that is a bad story in my opinion.
Sam's POV is very useful to introduce the universe, but not very good to keep up with, we are here for the fantastical, he resents the fantastical, and never really seems to e joy hunting, we and dean do
Supernatural was Sam's story. Thanks for this ❤
Yeah I kinda started to notice this on a recent rewatch. In one of the episodes towards the end of season 5, he said something -- I can't remember what because my memory is crap -- that was the polar opposite of some opinion he had long held which was pretty fundamental for most of the episodes before it. I think it might have been something about his psychic powers? I really don't remember, and I'm not about to watch the last half dozen or more episodes again to find what it was. But I remember hearing that and thinking "WTF? That's a sudden, very weird reversal that goes against previously established canon, with no explanation for the change."
Listening to everything you've said, I sort of agree. Except. I think it was literally the point. The whole story is literally about lack of agency. For Sam, for Dean, for Castiel, for basically every major character the defining trait is in some way a lack of agency. Possibly even Chuck. I get what you're saying, but I'm say that might have been the point.
yes the show may have turned on Sam but if his little stunt with the equalizer had worked the entire Multiverse would have been destroyed i know he loved jack like a son but no one the entirety of existence
Its true the Series either completely sidelines Sam in the later season or clearly favors Dean giving him more emotional arcs and storylines. Castiel & Crowley even seemed to eclipse Sam in the story several times. Also Sam seemed way more petulant and unsimpathetic then Dean over several seasons. That's why the ending angered many fans because Dean was the Fan favorite not given a happy ending.
The series finale sucked because neither brother got a happy ending. This video literally shows Sam as a sad lonely old man who's wife either died or possibly left him, The only time Sam was happy was with his son Dean Jr. How is that a happy ending? Your right that the show sidelined Sam
@@patrickmcguire7896 It was heavily implied that Sam married Eileen. They didn't have her in the final episode as Sam's wife because of Covid restrictions; they tried to have as few close interactions between actors as possible because of the social distancing requirements at the time. My guess is they only showed the son at all (which was very brief) because they probably figured the fans would be upset if we didn't at least get a glimpse.
Thing is, who Sam's wife and son were wasn't the focus. It was that, while having to grieve and endure a life without his brother, Sam did finally get to have the "normal" life and family he'd always wished he could have.
In that sense, Sam did get his happy ending. He got to grow old with peace and his family (albeit sans Dean).
This is one of the many problems i have with this show, when i first watched it I never noticed so many things and after watching videos about all they messed up on Im like wow this show had issues the whole time.
I think the beginning of this problem started with Jessica’s death. We never get to know Jessica as a person, so when she dies, we can’t relate to Sam’s grief. We know what he’s feeling in an abstract way by thinking, “What would I feel if my SO died in a horrible way?” But we don’t know how he feels in particular. And since so much time in the first season is spent on Sam’s struggle with Jessica’s death, yet no depth is given to the emotions, he came across as not as interesting. Whereas with Dean, his emotional responses to losing people are always interesting and unique to him. And Dean has more layers to his character. You have the womanizing tough guy exterior, and underneath that is the dutiful son and older brother trying to be responsible, and underneath that is a child that never got a childhood, a child that doesn’t believe he deserves love but desperately, obsessively chases it in the vain hope that someone will value him more than he values himself. So not only do you have intense emotions, but you have intense emotions that three personas have to deal with in their own ways.
Sam is obsessed with his identity and whether or not it’s adequate. By design, he can’t be a compelling character unless his sense of identity is at the forefront at all times. We don’t know enough about who Sam is, deep inside, and who he thinks he is. Dean calls him a nerd, but does he think of himself as a nerd? Does he enjoy or reject that title? Why did he love Jessica? What about their relationship was special, and why couldn’t Sam have had that relationship with anyone else? How does he view being open about his work if him keeping the secret from Jess is what got her killed? I wanted answers to those questions, and I never got them. Makes me so mad, but I’m glad to see someone addressing it.
I miss Supernatural.... Overall a fun, wild, show.
I think the reason why they treated sam the way they did was because the life they live in the show is very isolated from the rest of the world as you can't really go to a normal doctor with half the stuff they get involved with!! And also it's portrayed as life and death constantly so they don't have much room for feelings. Given the way they were raised i think especially Dean's character sees it's him and sam as they fight everything to keep everyone else safe as they do repeatedly say it's a lonely life
No peace for Sam? He got to live a normal life, have a family and die of old age ( after Dean died.) . You can't say they ignore Sam and his feelings and he has no autonomy and in the same video show examples of him expressing his feelings, having them acknowledged and making his own decisions. If you want to get technical neither he nor Dean really had autonomy until the last 2 eps when thry were free from God. And never was Dean shown to be the perfect hero. He was very selfish, a drunk almost. A womanizer . A scared little boy who was still bound by his father's rule of TAKE CARE OF SAM. Deans whole life was to look after Sam. And he most certainly wasn't perfect
@@HaevynReyhne Yes! I completely agree with you! I get that Dean did take over screen time and story, but that’s what happens in long running shows. It happens in long running stories. Look at Star Wars, Lord of Rings, as the stories go the main protagonist takes a bit of a seat on the sidelines. Even in Smallville there were large chunks of story dedicated to Lex with Clark taking a back seat
I might be the only Supernatural fan that doesn't actually like Mystery Spot.
HERE HERE! Me neither...
The first time, I did find it kinda funny at the beggining, but it quickly turn way too depressing, I hate the episode, Sam was forced to watch his brother died +100 times and then deal with his loss for 6 Months, is awfull... Just imagining having to go through that...
Agree. I hate how it was made for laughs. Jared said he knows the episode was supposed to be a comedy but he needed to act accordingly to what's happening so for him he was just miserable the whole ep. And that's how I felt too when watching it. I didn't really enjoy it. I just hated Sam suffering and it wasn't even acknowledged
Me neither. What Sam experienced in this episode is horrible, and the whole show just kind of forgets about it. Why does Sam have to go through all this and get nothing in return? It doesn't make any sense.
You seemingly missed the point of the writers in the first 5 seasons taking all agency away from sam, as lucifer states multiple times from the very start they all knew thats where things would end up, and in the episode where they first team up with crowley it even shows to what extent, his friend introduced sam to jess the very woman that would start his road, and just as his friend Brady was a demon put directly in sams path to manipulate him, lucifer shows just how much his life was manipulated by azazel, and in them taking all the agency away from sam makes him taking it all back and willingly jumping in the hole the more significant, that was the one thing sam did that was his free choice his free will taking the ultimate agency back from those that took all agency away from him his entire life
For me the appeal of the show died after the main characters refuesed to die when they should have while facing apocalyptic events where many nameless people die XP
Past season 5 I was just wondering what the point of the whole show was without much attachment and keep getting flabbergasted on how they trivialize death to revive characters that should be dead XD
I'm sorry you're so wrong, your right that the show failed Sam but not in the way you mentioned. They failed Sam by not giving him his own personal arc or his friends, other enemies, and other time Sam just became bland.
Let's go over what happened from season 6 onwards. Soulless Sam was meant to be responsible for Soulless Sam's actions when Sam got his soul back Dean NEVER held what Sam did Soulless against him (That was Bobby). As for season 8 the biggest grip against him wasn't not looking for Dean it was that we NEVER saw him grieving for Dean. They could've easily done with what they did with Ruby and have a flashback showing Sam devested and broken after Dean so we would care about his new relationship and get sympathy for him. But we never see that! Plus his relationship with Ameila wasn't well liked in general and Sam left her before Dean even got back, also Sam didn't even seem that guilt ridden over Kevin. And no the show doesn't portray Sam completely in the wrong! Dean is shown to be the wrong and apologizes for his attitude, so no the writers aren't giving Dean a pass. Yes Season 9 the writers did Sam dirty but not with the angel possession in that they didn't give Sam an Arc at all and only one real centric episode. Cas & Crowley got way more story than Sam and Dean had several centric episodes included the funniest one in the season. In season 11 we actually get an arc for Sam that doesn't revolve around Dean and its great! Him turning down Lucifer and to not give into guilt and self-sacrifice was well written and something Sam over came on his own, in that season Sam did nothing wrong. But here's where the problem occurred in season 12 they gave Sam an arc with the BMOL and a leadership arc but their weren't enough episodes dedicated to it so it felt rushed, also he had nothing going on with his own mother Mary when they brought her back which seriously rubbed fans the wrong way. Then it continued in season 13, they had a start of something great with him and Jack but Jack left way to soon and after that season the two would rarely get time alone together and in season 14 they set Sam up as a leader with hunters under his command but they did nothing with it and just killed them all. You see my point Sam lacked any personal arcs
And then theirs the other issue, the writers didn't really give Sam any friends in the series. Yeah Sam had friends in college but we never really see them in the show. Think about it, nearly every reoccurring character either had a better relationship with Dean or had more screen time alone with him than Sam. And there are some you can't deny are more Dean's friends than Sam's like Gath, Jo, Benny and Castiel. Even those who switch sides seemed to like Dean more because the writers made them that way like Victor Hendrikson, Crowley, Cole Trenton, Arthur Ketch. Then their were the villains. In Kripke era they did a good job giving the brother equal villains and their own like Meg, Gordon, Alister & Zachariah, minor bad guys but each had a rivalry with only one of the brothers. But after season 5 most of the villains seemed to only have rivalry's with Dean or once again just more screen Time with him, even Gadreel the angel who possessed Sam had more rivalry with Dean than him. That's probably why they kept brining Lucifer back cause the writers couldn't come up with any other foe to face him.
No, the fans didn't care about Sam not having a relationship with Mary. Why should he? He didn't know the woman at all, had no memories of her. It actually would have been bizarre for him to have anything except resentment for the woman WHO TRADED HER SON TO A DEMON FOR THE LIFE OF HER HUSBAND.
The show repeatedly failed Sam over and over by not exploring the themes they gave him, but why would a show that was designed for macho Red State Republicans ever want to take a look at bodily autonomy? Sam gets violated over and over again, and all he wants is to determine who and or what will be in his body all by himself, a fact that Dean repeatedly ignores.
The show did Sam dirty because they did Jared dirty. Maybe Jensen was easier to work with, or maybe it was the fact that he tested better with audiences, but the writers basically sidelined Sam from Season 3 onwards. This is the Dean show and you better like it.
Also, holy crap. Is your grammar and spelling that bad on purpose?
I'm sorry you're so wrong, you're right that the show failed Sam but not in the way you mentioned. They failed Sam by not giving him his own personal arc or his friends, other enemies, and over time Sam just became bland.
Let's go over what happened from season 6 onwards. Soulless Sam was meant to be responsible for Soulless Sam's actions. When Sam got his soul back Dean NEVER held what Sam did soulless against him, which Bobby did. As for season 8, the biggest gripe against him wasn't not looking for Dean it was that we NEVER saw him grieving. They could've easily done with what they did with Ruby and have a flashback showing Sam devastated and broken after Dean so we would care about his new relationship and get sympathy for him. But we never see that! Plus his relationship with Amelia wasn't well liked in general and Sam left her before Dean even got back. Also Sam didn't even seem that guilt ridden over Kevin. And no ,the show doesn't portray Sam completely in the wrong! Dean is shown to be in the wrong and apologizes for his attitude, so no, the writers aren't giving Dean a pass. Yes, Season 9 the writers did Sam dirty but not with the angel possession in that they didn't give Sam an arc at all and only one real centric episode. Cas & Crowley got way more story than Sam and Dean had several centric episodes included the funniest one in the season.
In season 11 we actually get an arc for Sam that doesn't revolve around Dean and it's great! Him turning down Lucifer and not giving in to guilt and self-sacrifice was well written and something Sam overcame on his own. In that season Sam did nothing wrong.
But here's where the problem occurred in season 12: they gave Sam an arc with the BMOL and a leadership role but there weren't enough episodes dedicated to it so it felt rushed. Also he had nothing going on with his own mother, Mary, when they brought her back which seriously rubbed fans the wrong way. Then it continued in season 13, they started something great with him and Jack but Jack left way too soon and after that season the two would rarely get time alone together.
In season 14 they set Sam up as a leader with hunters under his command but they did nothing with it and just killed them all. You see my point Sam lacked any personal arcs.
And then there's the other issue, the writers didn't really give Sam any friends in the series. Yeah, Sam had friends in college but we never really see them in the show. Think about it, nearly every reoccurring character either had a better relationship with Dean or had more screen time alone with him than Sam. And there are some you can't deny are more Dean's friends than Sam's like Gath, Jo, Benny, and Castiel. Even those who switch sides seemed to like Dean more because the writers made them that way ,like Victor Henrikson, Crowley, Cole Trenton, Arthur Ketch. Then there were the villains. In the Kripke era they did a good job giving the brothers shared opponents and their own like Meg, Gordon, Alister & Zachariah, minor bad guys but each had a rivalry with only one of the brothers. But after season 5 most of the villains seemed to only have rivalries with Dean or once again just more screen time with him, even Gadreel the angel who possessed Sam had more rivalry with Dean than him. That's probably why they kept brining Lucifer back cause the writers couldn't come up with any other foe to face him.
@@FunkyLittlePoptart My God you sound unhinged! Did you seriously retype my entire post because you hated my grammar? Who the hell does that?! Also I have heard from plenty of people complaining about Mary & Sam’s lack of development after they brought her back. Hell some fan like you said that Sam should be more resentful towards Mary, and I actually agree with that, it would’ve been a hell of lot better than what we got.
@@patrickmcguire7896 Hey! Look how much your spelling and grammar improved as soon as someone corrected your laziness! I knew you could do it!
@@FunkyLittlePoptart I understand maybe correcting some grammar mistakes sometimes. But to say the person u are talking to is lazy and literally copy and paste their whole comment to fix their grammar (which wasn't even that bad in the 1st place) is a bit much and kind of rude.
@@Dragon_Aoi I had to retype it to make it make sense. The fricking little red line is there for a reason.
Personally I think it’s because of Deans/Jensens stronger Acting compared to Jared (no shot to Jared because when he’s given stuff he SHINES like the early episodes and my all time favorite the church confessional of S8) in the later seasons that always have Dean Upfront and Jensens Stronger acting leads more to more inspiration from the writers and thus hinders Sam’s/Jareds writing and acting it’s like a Cycle; hope I’m making sense.
Sam is my boy. I kniw damn well Sam is the stronger brother. Sam can live without Dean but Dean cannot live without Sam
Sam never gave up when there were times where Dean wanted to give up, What about the time Sam saved Dean from the Mark of cain, or when Sam told Dean to keep fighting while Dean trapped Michael in his head? Sam was always the strongest brother he literally fought Lucifer in season 5 and went to hell and Literally SAVED THE WORLD but the series literally disregarded all of this. I'll always be a Sam boy.
They should have had Sam and Dean go out in a similar way to Klaus and Elijah from The Originals.
I get where you’re coming from but I think the finale was an oddly full circle moment. The show started with Sam living a normal life with his girlfriend and while Dean’s final death definitely broke Sam a little eventually he managed to move on, get married and have a kid achieving a somewhat normal life (although it seemed he was still hunting or at least told his son about the supernatural so still being involved in some way). Sam kind of did get shoved aside probably because Jensen Ackles is simply a better actor. It doesn’t mean Jared was bad but Jensen Ackles is just a better actor in general especially for cw standard he’s probably the best actor they had aside from Joseph Morgan as Klaus in the Originals.
I’m sorry, when does the narrative support Dean letting Gadreel possess Sam? Sam calls him out on his bs, Kevin got killed because of it, and even Dean himself admits he shouldn’t have done it. Only Castiel tries to absolve Dean on his actions, and in doing so, acknowledges that it was a stupid thing to do.
you judged a show that was mostly a multiverse story. chuck even said that most of the adventures the boys went on were not even them. it was them from other parts of the multiverse. you want to know which episodes were actually canon, there is a wiki that explains it
You can tell that after season 5 they lean alot into spirits demons and angels as the show keeps heavy biblical references for the rest of the show, not mixing in windegos and other monsters as often, also the big drop off of the demon blood children always was jarring to me
Given the actions of Donatello after having no soul, isn't Sam responsible for his actions when he didn't have one?
Can’t wait for this 😊
I think the show did a great job portraying Dean as a complex character with many admirable virtues and painful flaws. I just wish they had done the same with Sam. I think that's why there's a bit of an obsession among fans of looking at scenes where Sam makes an offhand comment or a quirky expression--little scenes that flesh out his character just a bit. Because there's the kernel of a great character there, but the writers just didn't put the effort into Sam that they did into Dean. And I don't see why one or the other had to be "the" point-of-view character. We should have had some of each brother's point of view.
i disagree with your opinion on sams ending. throughout the show, sam expresses that he doesnt really like hunting. everytime he goes off by himself he trys to build a normal life, but is eventually brought back by his brother or by the local hunters recognizing him.
Maybe it would have made more sense for sam to become a mentor and reasercher like bobby, but he doesnt really have anyone that needs mentoring thats already close to him. while it would have been cool, maybe even better, to see sam do something in line with this, the alternative being an apple pie life really isnt that bad.
I feel like the show spent forever forcing sam to live a life that didnt really suit him. even when sam visits his old teacher, sam still seems dissatisfied with his descision to keep hunting. if i were to project i would say he feels shame in the way that he settled for a life that he never wanted. in my interpretation, (which is why sam is my favorite character) sam is extremely numb in a depressed way. he feels a need to stay with and help dean not only because of their codependent nature, but also because he wants to right all of the guilt he feels. i mean he litterally offs himself because he is so overcome with guilt and shame. so why would he want to stay in the hunter world, where he is constantly reminded of this? i dont think sam ever truely heals from his guilt at least by s15, so in my eyes the best way for him to ease the pain is to build something new and completely separate from his old life. he is a runner, after all
I love Sam but here is my theory people were not happy with him on Gilmore girls while his brother did nothing really bad on the another show or movies like Sam did which didn’t help his image and didn’t show him the best light Gilmore Girls that’s just my theory because when you go back look at the show Gilmore girls people really hate Sam character dean it’s just my theory
Dean is the worst, on GG, as boyfriend at least, but why make this Dean the worst here for that reason. Which he becomes.
@@marocat4749 i don’t know you have to ask them the director and producer and writers but that a very good I’m interested in knowing that as well why is he being so bad
I don't really see why you're complaining about having the narrative in Dean's POV in the early seasons when it is still clearly Sam's story in s1-5, his dark descent into powers that can corrupt and his redemption in s5. If we take out Dean's POV in the story, where exactly does that leave Dean? He has no story in s1-5 except being Sam's brother and trying to push him to stay human. That's it. He doesn't get powers, he went to hell solely to save his brother who he grew up to always protect and prioritize even over himself. Dean was Sam's protector/caretaker from s1-5 and if it wasn't from his POV, he might as well have just been left out of the story altogether and just have it the Sam show.
they are talking about how, because the events of seasons 1-5 are framed from dean's POV, the show makes dean's biases the de facto biases for the audience; dean's perspective becomes the audience's perspective even though it is inherently flawed and hypocritical at most times. and instead of considering sam's POV, and taking into consideration why he acted the way he did, the majority of the audience just flat out agrees with dean's POV because it is THE POV. its why -in my opinion- the people who don't just write sam off after the first 5 seasons have a better read on both brothers than the people who DO write him off, because those people (usually samgirls) are actually paying attention to sam and his motivations.
1. Jared Padelecki looks almost like James Napier, the red ranger from Power Rangers Dino Thunder.
2. Both of their names start with ' J ' (Jared, James).
3. Both are of the same age (42).
What a sheer coincidence ! 😌
Sam was always my favorite
Dean not so much
Dean became more of a Gary Stu the farther the series went past the first season hence why the anime only lasts a season instead of 23 seasons.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr Gary Stu 🤣 That's hilarious
@@King_Steffon_II , it's the male name for Mary Sues, and even if I were a female I'd still use both terms equally.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr yeah I knew about Mary Sue but I never heard of Gary Stu until today so thank you for that but if hilarity 🤣
Its trully a shame, we could've seen a lot more of Sam :(
They couldn’t have given him any other name besides Dean?!
I started watching Supernatural in 2005 at its inception and enjoyed the show. I automatically latched onto Sam and…tolerated Dean. I stopped watching after season 5 and recently picked up watching again to finish over a decade later. I now CANNOT STAND DEAN…I find him insufferable and loathsome. I despise how the audience is supposed to root for him as he overrides Sam’s autonomy (and not just Sam).
Sam was supposed to be human and the eventual host of Micheal. Dean was supposed to be the host to Lucifer