Supernatural has been introducing and dropping plots and ideas for years now. It's one of the show's 2 biggest flaws at this point. The other problem is that it doesn't keep track of its own lore and constantly retcons things.
@@JayTheZoomster That's probably because a lot of people were expecting a better crafted arc involving Chuck ending all of creation. You were right when you said the season meandered and was rushed at the same time. Everything comes down to the writers blaming Chuck for their own writing decisions and not doing anything to improve.
@@FilmFan-iv7sz Ignoring previously established lore for one thing. Until season 15 there was no rule about souls not being able to enter Heaven if they had been to Hell. If that had been a rule then Crowley wouldn't have had to send demons to keep Bobby's soul from Heaven. There's also the issue of Lucifer being able to kill the new Death despite requiring a ritual to bind the old Death. Even after he did bind Death, he didn't have total control. My point is that they used Chuck changing the rules as an excuse to ignore a lot of previously established lore and it comes off as kind of lazy.
@@kamui003 I noticed that alot of that but as God was now the big bad I was fine with it doing the god changed rules thing. Plus the soul from hell now can't go to heaven. Far as I recall the only time the boys wanted to get a soul from hell up to heaven was Bobby's so only happened once. Well original death was just killed with his sythe a ritual was never performed.
*Remember when in season 5 they said, that half of the planet would get destroyed if Lucifer and Michael fought?* and when we finally get that fight, it was such a disappointment, not even a table was destroyed by their fight.
I loved it. It circle back to thier accidental meta root episodes but the entire season was meta. It also depends on who you are as a person I guess, For me I believe whole heartedly in God and fate and destiny, So to me it made perfect sense that everything sam and dean had been doing was orcestrated by the creator, That is fine, It's fine because if the creator is orcestrating it , it's actually not that much different from you doing it, Because everything that IS would come from God, so it's just normal reality, And God removed himself from them, Which is actually what happens in my bible as well lol, God removes himself from humanity and things spin into chaos, The parts of God that come into humanity result in things like Christ dying for the sins of the world defeating the devils deeds towards making humans fall away from God. So me obviously reading all about destiny and God and how soveriegn he is yet still perfect in Love made me not really bat an eye at sam and dean, But I did think it was rediculous that God was doing it for fun or a tv show, and that he could be killed by a nephilm.... My bible mentions them knocked out with a flood lol sure they existed after ward but not even satan is a threat to God... The only thing that made the story Slightly make sense was "death tells dean God built himself into creation and it is his weakness" something like that.. Welp.. Problem.. God still can see the future and snap his fingers, The gun he made... Yeah even if he made that thing able to hurt himself, He could snap his fingers again and undo it. You can't kill God, At the VERY least , God still would SEE IT COMING, They never address "God" lacking his omnicience and omnipresence - Yet Jack gains it .. so stupid Side note for the non christians - According to the bible Jack wouldn't be just a nephilim, Jack would be the anti-christ, The antichrist is a man that is after the working of satan, This is interpreted as satan inside this man and operating in him, Jacks satans kid, Jesus was God in the flesh, And the Begotten son, the anitchrist is Jesus flipped around, So jack is the antichrist born of satan, instead of being fully God Fully Human like jesus, He is Fully Archangel from lucifers side and Fully human from his moms side. Jack the anitchrist kills God lol Side note - Fun fact - Job in the old testiment actually has an argument with God about him acting like a tyrant just like chuck, God doesn't get angry with job, Job says there should be an advocate between humans and God because we are powerless and can not argue with God, Little did Job know Jesus christ would be the living advocate for humans - he was God in the flesh - therefore able to fully argue on humans behalf, and his death paid the price for sin. He was also sent by the father so - Gods main plan all along was that God himself would send a bridge to humanity to save them completly from the penalty of their sins, The father, The Son , And the Holy spirit, One God in 3 persons all working together within to save humanity and undo what satan did in the garden of eden... Supernatural only read the headlines of the bible, Not the fine print. Could have made for some amazing stories of Humans struggle with God, Oh well, I make short films in cali, Guess i'll have to do it lol The bible actually does delve that deep into the theology of what it means if God exists, A lot of christian hardly know these verses and how huge they are and also how AMAZING they are.
Sorry for being a year late, but I never saw it that way. Not defending season 15 as a whole or anything, but I liked that episode. I never saw it as God made them bad-asses, but rather skipped the things we didn't care to see. Like Dean getting sick, or them being able to pick locks without a tensioning device and only a rusty nail (this is impossible, btw.) The boys kicking ass is all them, God just takes care of the boring shit that wouldn't add to the show.
@@zamorak6789 Same. They had plot armor in the sense that they survived shit that not even the most badass normal hunters would've been able to survive. And of course u can definitely see that all throughout the series as every hunter or side character eventually was killed by some supernatural being but plot armor always revived the boys. Look at that random episode in season 5 where two hunters barged into Sam and Dean's motel room and immediately shot them and they went to heaven only to be revived at the end of the episode. Like bruh, that doesnt happen to everyday normal hunters
i disagree with you about the last episode and dean dying. i feel like death is so over used for them that them actually living til old age would have been a pleasant surprise.
I would have liked to see Dean retire, maybe open up a Roadhouse 2.0. We saw in season 14 that he did dream of having his own bar. And I wanted to see Sam stay in the life, stay with Eileen, and become a leader- create a network of hunters, based from the Bunker. Get into more Men of Letters type stuff as “lore support” for the network, maybe get into witchcraft a bit. I think that this would have really shown character development for both brothers. Sam started the show trying to escape from hunting. Dean started thinking that he’d die on a hunt somewhere, never get out of the life, and be stuck as “daddy’s little soldier”. For him to get out of the life and find something for himself would have been such excellent character development. As it was, his dying exactly the way the always thought he would- it was just sad and unnecessary. And for Sam to realise that hunting actually was his calling, would have been great development for him too. As it is, I feel like the ending just shat on all the character growth they’d had over the years. And their lack of any caring about both Eileen and Cas was just so out of character. But hey, at least I’ll always have fics, I guess. There’s plenty of them that are far better written than the show.
@@coolsteve1985 I think they failed, honestly. I wasn’t emotional- unless you count slightly pissed off and rate her disappointed? I don’t think those were the emotions they were going for. But a lovely retrospective seeing the boys having lives that are what they want, moving on from that unhealthy codependence, and then moving on to a (much better organised) heaven? Yes, I would find that emotional in a good way.
Actually, if im not wrong in a scene of the last episode, you can see a few papers of work or houses, cant remember, but Dean was ready for a normal life, unfortunately, didnt happened):
My ideal ending literally would have been them, in the impala, talking about their next case and having some jokes thrown between the two. I would have loved for the final shot to have been of the impala driving down a road as it pans out, leaving us to wonder what the boys got up to after the show ended. Call me simple, but this would have been far more satisfying and fulfilling in comparison to what we got, as I feel it would be a reminder of where the show began - the two of them hunting simple cases. Maybe a nod to all the people they met along the way would have been sweet too!
You aren’t simple, ur logical, it would have been perfect they get their happy ending and that leaves the fans happy. They expect us to believe dean dies to a nail after all they’ve been thru and didn’t jack have god powers and cared about Sam and Dean so much, I don’t think that he would let that happen
I agree . It’s why I liked the buffy ending , say what you want about the last season the ending was good because it was tense but simple . They defeat the big bad , they save the world , and then they just keep going . I would rather a series end on an open note and leave you wondering what could happen next that fully close that book in a way that makes you wonder why you bothered following these characters in the first place -_-
The thing i dislike the most about the show is how it conatantly kills characters off and then brings them back again over and over and then expects me to think it's true or have an emotional reaction.
@@Granger15 I don't think they did. To be honest, even from S6/7 it felt like they didn't know what else to do with him. By S9, I was convinced that the fan base was the only reason he was still around
For me SPN's biggest sin is banking so much on found family but still making it a point that the only really important thing are the brothers. They contantly kill off and ressurect people for shock value or when they don't know what else to do with a character. With a few exceptions like Bobby, Charlie and some of Cas's many deaths (except the literal most important one at the end -_-) they manage to make a lot of deaths feel unimportant, like yeah it's sad but the boys get over it real quick don't they? Dean throws around a lot of "X character is Family! I would die for them! They are like a sibling to me..." and then that character dies in the next episode and life goes on... I don't mind that the ending focuses on them specifically, what I mind is that it feels like all other characters needed to be unceremoniously dealt with so they are not in the way of the brother focused ending. It was unnecessary.
I know it became a meme, but that whole "family" thing really pissed me off as time went on, since neither of them seemed to give a crap that their half-brother was trapped in a cage in the deepest depths of hell!
Yeah, this is what I hate about the finale the most two. The concept of found family, their friends and family...at least Charlie should have been there, or Ellen and Joe....you know, a few they really had a close relationship with.
I sincerely think an open ended option wouldve been the best way to go. the boys drive off in the car, we dont know exactly what happens, just that they finally have their free will and can choose what happens next. let the fans decide what that "next" looks like
@@sparksfly5877 I watched 2 episodes and decided I couldn’t take it anymore. I just skipped everything and looked up what happens. I no longer cared about spoilers, deaths, plot twists, or emotional scenes. That’s what happens when you’ve been milking a show for 10 years repeating the same formula over and over again. Eventually it wears off and becomes meaningless
I couldn't stand the finale, it was totally unsatisfying to me - I had no desire to see the boys die, heaven as their peace means nothing to me (especially with Dean just... waiting to see Sam. Who he just saw. And knows he will see again eventually. And should want to live a nice long life and therefore *not* see too quickly. And maybe instead want to see some *other* people he misses.). I felt that Sam should have stayed in the hunting business as a Bobby figure, running the bunker with Eileen, and Dean should have started up a Roadhouse-style hunter's bar. They're both in the life still, but disconnected from it, close to each other still, but not codependent and living their own lives. And I wanted Cas back as well but I didn't expect that in the actual show - that'll just have to live in my mental version of everything instead. The season itself, like you said, was totally meh. Not awful, not great, just really obvious that the writers room was disconnected & didn't know what they wanted.
Don’t forget that Sam and Dean were soulmates. It was referenced a number of times in the series that they would share a heaven so it makes sense when Dean said that heaven wasn’t perfect without Adam. It was a nod back to them being soulmates.
To me, the side characters were the best part of the show. Sam and Dean feel like dicks when they get all "it's just about us" attitude and don't care about all the people who love them and have sacrificed so much for them. And that's something show constantly flip flops on. Sometimes it feels like supporting characters ARE important, like Charlie or Bobby or Eileen... And then they're just unceremoniously dropped and never mentioned again. In the final season, Chuck said something about how all those people don't matter, how he wants to go back to the basics with just Sam and Dean... I wondered if that was the writers speaking through him 😄 First seasons with just Sam and Dean were great, but I think it elevated their characters when they had other characters to interact with. Be it Bobby making sure they don't fight too much or lose sight of things, or be it Charlie who brought out the more caring and fun-loving side of the brothers. I just wanted to know that all my beloved characters got satisfactory endings (and some of them did), but it felt like show just pushed them aside like they never were important.
I honestly thought that Chuck would turn up in the series finale and reveal that the previous episode was only a joke to let the boys think they could win.
Yh that would have been far better. I just hate that they make god the villain and he loses. What do u mean you just killed god? Why? For free will? You have it. The reason he pays attention to this version of you is because you are more interesting than the others. All of them have free will otherwise none of you would be different.
Literally! On live television, they teased the new episode by showing the boys walking off set and I was like “WAIT PLOT TWIST????” And I thought that was the gimmick
I like how you Think here... Agreed about the Empty. But Killing that (Clown Character Chuck) "God", Had to be pushed for Reasons. Just like when they gave Jack his Birthday Cake and told him to make a wish, He blew out the Candle which represents The Light & Killing the Light was more fitting with the World etc.. "Lights Out".. As soon as Jack blew it out, it cut screen and ended Episode. So even tho YOUR Idea would have been Awesome,. I see why they did it like that with Fighting God. I actually Love the Show and Cried like a Baby.. Emotional.. I did feel that sting tho when they were standing over Chuck The God after Ending him and said,. No One Will Remember You And You Will Just Disappear From The World.. They Meant that ish... The message was Strong.
I only recently got into Supernatural, but the last season seems so different from the first ones that have me hooked. The monster of the week episodes are so good because they focus on character, their inner life and relationships and developments. And then you get an ending where the four mains are just caricatures of themselves? Even as early as season three, Dean was more than a hunter and Sam was more than a normal guy. Hell, you could see it even in the first half of season one.
Yeah, but they grew a lot over the years. Sam no longer wanted a normal life. He wanted a hunting life with Dean. And who are you referring to as the four mains? Sam, Dean, Castiel and ?
@@peacefulpossum2438 They hardly even grew post-Season 5. Literally almost every season were the same shit over and over again. Something bad happened to Dean or Sam, one of them kep secret then shit got exposed, one of them died proceed to the next season, the one who died got revived and bad shit happened all over again. It's like they didn't learn anything from their mistakes pre-Season 6 and every season was like a fresh restart for their characters.
@@zeroskaterz92 I agree that the repetition season after season became ridiculous. That’s what I find frustrating about the finale because it indicates that post-Chuck, they settled in together with Miracle and developed a contented kind of domesticity and Dean was applying for a law enforcement job. Perhaps, Sam reading while doing laundry suggests he may have been going back to school. I wish we had seen more of that life.
@@zeroskaterz92 YES THIS!!!! I got so tired of them regressing as characters since season 5. Every season they would still lie and keep secrets from each other after just the previous season, agreeing to be truthful and let things happen naturally. It got to the point where I kinda stop caring for them.
Yeah, I agree with most of what you said except I didn't like the series finale at all, I guess it sounds fine on paper but the execution was so bad, anyway, the characters and the actors are what kept me watching for this long and I am excited to see the cast in future projects.
This is honestly the best reaction to the finale that I've seen so far. I was not a big fan of the finale because it felt like a rando episode mid season 4 or something. What I do love is how factual and in depth your analysis is. I also love that this shows that Destiel Shippers aren't upset because the finale didn't have Cas. Most of us are just confused and disturbed by the jarring end and the same problems you addressed. It's just a lack luster ending no matter who you ship. Thank you for your great analysis!
Exactly. It made no sense, and it was completely against character for both Sam and Dean. That’s what really pissed me off- it was basically a character assassination.
@@katherinemorelle7115 Absolutely. Like they had no real reaction to Jack becoming God? Up until now they cared so much about him and helping him be a normal kid but now they are like "peace". And didn't even pursue all their new friends. The staging with Dean's room was beautifully done since It showed he was grieving but Sam and Dean didn't even talk about Cas for more than a minute or two only one episode after Dean begged God to bring him back? It just seemed disjointed. Especially with no mention of Amara and Billy suddenly being a villain out of nowhere really. Up until now Billy was a very reasonable character who only wanted balance in the universe. Why did she suddenly have to be a villain and why did suddenly Amara not matter? Just like Billy, all she really wanted was cosmic ballance. Things just felt very disjointed.
@@ariananichols7827 I hated what they did to Billie's character. It made no sense. She would've been happy to have Jack in charge because it would've created balance especially if she'd been the one to reap Chuck/God.
@@yellohcards totally. Especially since Jack wants to be a hands off God who allows life and death to be up to the people and their actions. He doesn't want to be like Chuck who decided everyone's fate and brought people back countless times to fulfill what he wanted. Jack and Billie really both wanted the same thing: peace and order. They could have been an amazing duo and just just duo at that
You're 10000% right. I don’t ship Dean and Cas, and I thought it was absolutely SHITTY that they did not include a character as important as Cas in the ending. The three of these characters were treated like shit, even Sam living out his life in that way was a disservice to who he is. Dean didn't deserve to die like that just after gaining his autonomy. Cas didn't deserve to get fucking murdered like that without the writers even TRYING to have Sam and Dean save him. It just makes no damn sense. They truly are "chapped-ass monkey[s] with a keyboard" (Chuck in Swan Song).
The thing is that Jack was such a lousy concept in general. He is a walking deus ex Machina. God as an antagonist is the same issue as power scaling issue in DBZ. The plan to kill god was trash. He spent his time snapping people out of existence. How is the best down in character.
My guess is they replaced Adam with a younger version to save money . So they created this Jack guy. The actor Adam wanted more money probably. Jack storyline was what killed the show. It became the Jack show
Yeah, that's right. Finaly, someone said it. I hate Jack's storyline. It couldn't let our boys be who they are. It robbed them and us of precious screentime they diserve.
@@lijastojkovic7516 Thats whay im saying this show was about the Sam and Dean all along. Watch the First 4 seasons which is the best ones and yall know why. Jack was some said excuse replacement for Adam and antichrist narrative. Antichrist didnt make sense when it was Sammy.
The series finale felt like to me making the last 15 seasons a waste of time, because the characters don’t really grow, they get the ending they want back when the show started but not the ending these characters should grow to have. Feels like so much development just got tossed out the window.
Same, I totally agree with you, I could probs watch any season from 1-5 and then the season finale and, albeit a bit confusing as to why they want to kill God, it'd make sense and that honestly sucks :/
I like how your take on season 15 supernatural is a mix of the type of fans in the Supernatural fandom all in one option. You disliked the season because of the narrative, you felt that felt that Destiel was queerbaited, you didn’t like 15x19, you were satisfied 15x20, you felt the San wig scene was bad, you felt the show was good to end it with just Dean and Sam, you felt that they should’ve acknowledged Castiel, and you were satisfied with Dean’s death Its interesting to see one person to have all of these combined
I was pissed about the lack of Eileen and Cas. Eileen does, is presumably brought back, but we never see it, and we never see Sam care? What? He loved Eileen! Same with Cas. They mention that he’s offscreen in the finale, but Dean doesn’t care? Doesn’t try to see him? Even if Dean didn’t return Cas’ romantic love (and that was deliberately left unanswered), he did still very much love him. We’ve seen how Dean reacts to Cas’ death before- he literally tried to kill himself, he was so broken up about it! But all we got was a single sentence, and then nothing? What? I also feel like they just shat all over the theme of found family in the finale. It ended up being about the blood family only (with the exception of Bobby). It was so incredibly disappointing. Especially after they set up the season to deal with Dean and Cas’ relationship. The fighting, the breaking up, the realising they’re better together, Dean apologising. Even if it was only romantic on one side, that doesn’t really matter- it was still an extreme to important relationship (platonic or not), and they just threw it away. I will still probably revisit my favourite episodes. But I doubt I’ll ever go back and watch the last season again. This was a great video, thank you. I also recommend Media Buzzkill’s videos- one on the story of Destiel. I recommend it for shippers and non shippers alike. I think for shippers it’s a great retrospective on why that relationship mattered so much, and was so awesome. For non shippers, it’s a great look into why people did ship them, without being overly pushy about it. And her video on why the final season was not great, was also excellent. Really delved deep into the themes of the show, and how much the writers of the final season just didn’t seem to understand them anymore.
I don't think cas meant that in a gay way. We know he wasn't gay as he had 2 different girlfriends in the series (to be fair, one of them he was amnesiac). Dean had multiple girls. Neither of them had any boyfriend's whatsoever. I think it was cas finally loving someone as part of a family, like a brother. Or like how the angels were supposed to love humanity to begin with.
@@wrydrune Cas had already told Dean, Sam, Mary, and Jack that he loves them in a familial way. Misha Collins said that Cas's confession in 15x18 was "a homosexual declaration of love". Cas was IN love with Dean. I'm sure Misha knows more about Cas's feelings than you or I.
The idea that it’s homosexual ... Cas is in a male identified human meat suit but he is a non-gendered being. He’s had female hosts as well, but okay, he identifies as male so he’s bi. Fair enough. Within the show, Castiel’s feelings are unrequited. No, I’m not counting foreign dubbing changes. On the found family thing. Dean calls a number of people brother - Cas and Benny immediately come to mind - but it doesn’t mean what it means when he calls Sam brother. We have to remember that Sam and Dean are canonically soulmates. As Dean indicates, heaven isn’t perfect without Sam, and that’s a references to early seasons that Sam and Dean would share a heaven. That’s good writing.
@@peacefulpossum2438 that's my point. I think cas was saying it as dean's level of family. Cas finally realizing what real familial love was, which is why the empty took him, because he was finally, truly happy.
Things escalated up until season 5 and then hit a point where it's hard to go anywhere afterwards because the stakes got raised so high. Having a season that CAN serve as a good finale does that. So the seasons afterwards suffered a big dropoff in quality but slowly recovered and managed to progress to a point where you had another season that could have served as a good finale; that being season 11. After S11 you had the same problem as you had after S5. It didn't recover this time.
Honestly if it weren’t for the amazing actors I probably wouldn’t have kept watching spn for years. Edit: okay don’t count Jared in the amazing actor after season 8
I was never a big fan of the show in the first place probably because I had different expectations of what it was going to be going in but for me the actors weren’t even the greatest the main characters were mostly unlikeable and made the dumbest choices out of many TV characters I’ve seen but it did have somewhat of a watchability factor with the like monster of the week thing they did which was kind of interesting but overall the show felt kind of like a spoof of an actual supernatural TV drama not to mention even in the early seasons the show had absolutely no real horror factor or element to it whatsoever
Sam's death and Dean's monolog in the end of season 2 made my cry like literally when I rewatch it years later I still cried.. But season 15 last episodes just so bland like the combination of "meh" and "seriously? This is the last episode after 15 years?" It should've end at season 5, I think lots of the fans doesn't really need a happy ending if it just as crappy as this, what happen with the so called "blaze and glory" ending?? Now I just want back my 10 years that I spent for watching this show went downhill
IMO if they were really looking for a happy ending then they should have ended it at the season 11 finale and just remove all the British man of letters introduction and put in place the boys being happy to have mom back I could live with that and be happy enough. After all I believe season 12 is where it went from going downhill to drowning underwater But yes otherwise should have left it at season 5 and just remove Sam from under the street light while leaving everything else as is and perfect
How do you go through that whole season without mentioning the huge gaping plot crater? Seriously.. Ruby and Aniel working together when Ruby had never met an angel...
Oh I could go on for hours about every issue caused by that one single episode. It's plentiful. Usually continuity issues don't both me because I feel like they're pretty minor a lot of the time and the story being told is still enjoyable, but nah, that episode broke canon AND was boring.
@@themischief420 oh right.. she did. I do still remember Aniel saying she came down when the angels fell at the end of season 8 and she took extra time finding the perfect vessel. That didn't lend well to the story about the two of them working together... 4 seasons apart.
One retcon I couldn't stand was the whole "a soul from hell can't go to heaven"😐. REMEMBER IN SEASON 8 WHEN ONE OF THE TRIALS SAM HAD TO DO TO CLOSE THE GATES OF HELL WAS RESCUE A SOUL FROM HELL AND SEND THEM TO HEAVEN!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT DID I JUST HALLUCINATE THAT HAPPENED!!!!!! Man Disney isn't as bad with their Retcons.
Yeah. Worst part is they tried to be like "well God wanted that soul to go to Heaven so it works" when that's such a flimsy argument since God created the trials to be done by a human who maybe didn't even interact with him.
@@JayTheZoomster that notion is also ridiculous because it's shown in the Supernatural Universe God doesn't have anything to do with that. It's that dude with the abacus and it's essentially the individual's choices that decide it. I will always love this show and that's why I will be critical about it.The last few seasons suffer from the same issue the Sequel Trilogy suffered from, too much extravagance in the storytelling and no respect for details or source material.
@@Davidscomix well I think that was more Naomi stopping Crowley from dragging Bobby back to Hell. Remember it's not the angels who decide who goes up or down it's the reaper guy with the abacus, well at least now apparently. But hey at least the final episode was satisfying.
I just remembered the early seasons, and how wonky the power scaling is. In season 5, Zachariah literally snaps away Sam & Dean’s internal organs. He’s not an archangel, much less god or death
I like the series finale a good bit, but I honestly think the ending with the montage and everything was terrific. It's almost like the show wanted to give us two endings but it feels wasted since they went with such a final ending for the actual finale.
It was ruined long before that. I absolutely love this show and these characters but the overall story after season 5 just kept getting less interesting. The "monster of the week" episodes were really what kept me coming back.
What was the biggest issue for me and what I realize when Supernatural has its issues where certain Showrunners taking over a set of seasons. Ranked: Eric Karpe (Season 1-5/Golden Age) Jeremy Carver (Season 8-11) Sera Gamble (Season 6-7) Andrew Dabb and Robert Singer (12-15) As you can see the seasons 12-15 were where I started to notice problems. The following 12-15 have major retconning with it’s lore, disrespect towards characters like Kevin, Adam, Michael, Cas, Jack, or Amara, disrespect to some supernatural creatures as well, untouched concepts, major unanswered plot holes, power scaling, too many fillers like season 14 and using those fillers to get rid of major plot opportunities like killing off AU Michael in an episode about hunting a Gorgon. I never liked the plot twist with Chuck being the final big bad due to philosophy teachings. An evil creator like Yaldabaoth I get but an evil capital ‘G’ God? That’s just ridiculous and what Chuck represents is us writers in the real world only he has personality traits of a psychopath and sociopath and literally that’s what is written in his character page personality heading. A fanfiction writer that loves to torture his own characters and never give them happy endings. Also God having written out Sam and Dean’s lives bugs me because it flouts everything about the characters and their struggles as it says well the reason why it all happens is because they were merely doing their scripts so all their mistakes were not real as it had simply been written out and so you can no longer hold it against them for their choices as it’s wrong since it was all dur to Chuck’s manipulation and it makes them less slightly relatable as again nothing had been real for them so it throws everything a person would have gone through in a crazy and dangerous life right into our faces. I hated how angels and reapers were reduce to jobbers as I realize now that entities like angels aren’t meant to appear as a regular which is why you hardly see angels in other supernatural shows like Shadowhunters, Teen Wolf, or TVD, TO, and Legacies (their angels in novels are called Guardians). They’re too damn powerful and so you’d have to nerf them which they did and made them look pathetic along with reapers no longer being as these scary beings that you’d run from to prevent death back in Eric’s Supernatural. I also realize that the showrunners nerfed even Archangels by adding in too many weaknesses and not being the guys who once can create their own dimensions, creatures out of thin air, their fight destroying the entire planet, defy description, hardly can be stopped by wards like even handcuffs as they are God’s first strongest creation and so it makes me wonder the whole multiverse travel restrictions as Balthazar a regular common angel was able to use a spell to travel into the world very easy without a complicated spell that requires Archangel grace and I believe Raphael helped Virgil get back so that is flouted as you’re saying a coming angel can travel through universes but an Archangel, a primordial angel can’t? Bullshit! I like Jack but after looking back thanks to writing a Supernatural story I saw now the character could have faced some mental struggles like not being evil like his father and going depths into the Nephilim lore and perhaps Cambion due to Antichrist and all and perhaps grow more mature due to having to grown up faster, especially since Jack was expose to war in Apocalypse World and it would have scarred him but he walks off like he’s unaffected and it’s good he retains some innocence but show off that he is haunted by what he witness over in that world Adam/Michael for the worse disrespect out of every character with hardly any screen time but character development and they just reduce him to a daddy’s boy. Kevin they just kept using the poor guy as their whipping boy by giving him a bad ending and even though Jack changed Heaven, we can assume he’s in Heaven but it would have been best if we saw and I know COVID prevented that but we could have had mention that he’s okay or seen him at a far distance because of regulations Cas he was sort of just there and kept being disrespected by becoming every villain’s person punching bag and I feel that people don’t know what bad ass means as simply stabbing someone alone isn’t enough as badass unless the person he’s killing is someone very important or defeats them in an awesome way. Stabbing someone like Duma isn’t badass as it’s like “eh”. Okay he killed her wow that’s badass *using sarcasm* I also feel like he didn’t do much in season 15 and Destiel is fine as a bromance but all the shippers are going nuts with them as movers which I don’t have a problem but dial it down for goodness sake as it feels fan service now Amara while some of you can dislikes her, I don’t care I loved her but I feel that she was disrespected in episode 15x17 with being betrayed and getting rid of her a fate far worse than death as her being absorbed by God and later deciding to stay inside Jack was bad! Because you’re saying someone is at peace when they just got backstabbed by someone they could trust and they’re happy? Give me a freaking break. It’s equivalent to a person locking themselves inside their rooms and never coming back out as they are depressed. Heck it’s practically like her being locked by the Mark of Cain again and since she’s a character that can’t be killed they went with this for her fate. Bullshit! Also Amara was already said to be stronger than Chuck even on his best days but in 17 she says she needs four Archangels to fight her brother when it’s strange she needed any help so plot over logic. Considering she’s immensely powerful with Chuck needing help and it was a barely manageable victory to seal her away by weakening her and suddenly she needs help? Bullshit! Heck I believe that Chuck could have been defeated in that episode because you have someone stronger than him, a Nephilim who is stronger than four Archangels combined, Michael, a Cambion that is walking somewhere on the Earth or Queen of Hell’s magic capabilities. Also Amara is a primordial entity so I’m sure she has a green thumb to perhaps grow a Leviathan blossom after killing one so Sam and Dean can make the spell to lock him up and bam! Chuck defeated as he’d get destroyed by such an op team up and we can have Amara and Jack getting to know each other as I wanted to see that but sadly no. *Sigh* writers love to drag it out and wanted more angst between characters when we don’t need any angst anymore as we get it. Just stop torturing Sam and Dean. Also it was a major redeeming quality of turning on her brother for all she did in season 11 and she still got the redeeming quality with her intent being to help Sam and Dean but she was disrespected and it was all for nothing. Lucifer appearing is great but I feel that he’s been reduce to a weakling and no longer this terrifying and powerful entity as he was this really this feared and respected entity back in season 5 but ever since coming back they overused him to the point that he’s like a record disk. In season 13 he shattered and when they try to make him come back they manage time glue him but shatters. In 15 with little appearance he had they taped the disk and in a matter of minutes it’s permanently broken and useless. Lucifer was reduce to a jobber and made as a laughing stock. He lost his Devil Big Bad presence. The Devil a major villain isn’t meant to be used as a recurring/minor character as it ruins them. The concepts that could have been touched down were the Lovecrafts seen in season 13 like Yokoth. Or Heaven falling but that was mentioned and never focused on. The seasons leave too many plot holes like Jack making the Empty loud as that feels like something that shouldn’t be ignored, Ruby, crossroad demon making deals again in 15x15, or other things that preceded season 15. Laying so many wrappers not thrown in the trash bin properly. Good thing we have Fanfictions to cover that. I also understand that Jeremy’s Supernatural had concepts they could have touched down and some like Metatron was boring and that Amara and Dean chemistry was pointless which I hated as well of trying to make a romance which is what ruined things in 15x17 as Amara made it clear in season 11 that she only wanted Dean as company to not be alone once Creation was destroyed but writers decided nah she loved Dean and wants him to love her back. So much for getting over someone. I learned an interesting concept with what could have been done with the bond like Dean being force to become her champion and become Demon Dean again as he was short lived in season 10. AU Michael hardly appeared and they did make sure he didn’t like Dean holding him back. I can’t help and feel it seemed bias to how Dean does things better than Sam as Sam was barely able to keep Lucifer at bay and somehow for weeks Dean can keep an Archangel much less one stronger than his version Main Michael? Wow really lost the emphasis on the season making AU Michael as a big bad and killed him off in a filler as they probably didn’t know what to do with him just as season 12 killed off Crowley because they didn’t know what else to do with an amazing character like Crowley. The ending left me without closure due to many underrated characters getting disrespected and the plot holes. I was depressed for a while. Luckily again we have fanfiction stories that exist so I got peace and the closure I needed. I understand again the pandemic changed the ending but it still doesn’t make me happy with what we got as I feel like the show could have been postponed when restrictions were lifted a bit with social distance after the pandemic calmed down a bit.
Really refreshing commentary. Great insights. I personally got fatigued with the angels and demons theme. Despite liking early seasons Cas, Zachariah and the gang, I started to wish Kripke hadn’t introduced angels. Lucifer as comic relief was especially infuriating.
I agree with almost everything you said, it was all very well written and I give you props to that. The only thing is when you say Amara is stronger than God, that was all God's doing by faking it and making that the story (like you said how it sucks cause everything the winchesters have done is pretty much useless cause it was god controlling them the whole time) so in reality he is still much stronger than her
To me and others jack is basically a retcon character to replace Jesse Turner the half human half demon child from season 5 I really hate the fact that Andrew dabb and Bobby singer decided to not bring him back instead they decided to do the hole storyline with Lucifer impregnate Kelly Kline god that was so disgusting I think dabb thought he could do better well he didn't 🤯😠😡🤬🤢🤮
I think that writing an ending to a show that’s been on for so long is obviously going to be hard. There’s been A LOT of plots, characters, and development in the course of 15 seasons/years. Dean always thought and wanted to die on a/the hunt while Sam wanted a normal life with career, wife, and kids. I finished my rewatch a couple weeks ago and to me, it appeared that starting season 8, Sam gave up on the idea of having a normal life since he gave it a shot with Amelia and in the end it didn’t work out. He wasn’t true to himself hence that conversation he had with (I believe) Amelia’s father about him running away from something. In season 13 believing to have saved the world, Dean talked about settling down, quitting the hunter life that surprised Sam, and going to the beach to relax since they-Sam, Cas, and himself- deserved it. The finale, once again MY OPINION, would’ve suited the series if it had ended with the early seasons. The show started with Sam and Dean and by season 4 it seemed to have revolved around them and the family they found. By season 14 the show seemed to be more about found family than 2 brothers. But yes I do believe Sam and Dean were the core of it. I didn’t like the finale and I don’t think I will and I do respect those who do like it. It could’ve been worse though. *** I didn’t/don’t intend to anger anyone. And if you do like the finale I totally respect your opinion, this is just mine. And of course this wasn’t my only issue with the finale and don’t want to list them all out since I don’t want to spread more hate. Even if we were given another finale good or bad there would still be people hating on it. I do appreciate and am grateful for the actors’ hard work.
I can list many reasons why I liked the finale and I actually mention every now and again how much I liked this show's finale when the convo is about shows. I just wanted to chime in here and say I like how you present this as your opinion and respect the fact that some people liked the finale. I think everyone perceives the show, the plot, the characters a little or a lot differently. It's really awesome to hear other people's perspectives and why they liked or didn't like certain aspects. It's thought provoking and just fun to chat about a piece of art like that.
I felt that season 5 was the last true season. And they just let that ball keep rolling. What I think really killed it before the final season is when they started with the multiverse. They killed so many characters they had to pop over to the the next universe to get them back.
I would like to buy the DVDs (as a Christmas present for myself). Should I just buy a box set with season 1-5 if I can find it? I wanna go on the same journey as everyone else, but it seems like from what everyone is saying, the journey became lackluster and disappointing. I don't want to spend money on lackluster and disappointing.
To me, the whole season was amazing other than 15x19 and 15x20 because everything was out of character for Team Free Will. NOTHING they did made sense.
That Episode when Chucked showed Sam the future if they killed chucked and they always died in a vampire hunt , see they had no free will in the last episode as dean dies in one
I want to think that due to covid restrictions they couldn't do a better job in the finale. But i can't understand why nobody showed up to Dean's funeral. Come on! It's f***ing Dean Winchester! A legend amongst hunters, and no-one comes to show him some respect? I don't like this ending on so many levels. I think some parts of ep.20 were to be put in ep.19, just for closure, and ent it with a longer episode (maybe 1 hour long) where our boys "carry on" with their life riding their beautiful car in the sunset.
Your description of the final season as a "mixed bag" in my opinion is spot on, it did give us an "ok" ending and had me tearing up a bit and it definitely was better than the final episode of a series also featuring myths and monsters that shall go unnamed. 15 seasons is too many, and many of SN seasons can be described as hit and miss but every season had a hidden gem here and there. I wish the whole cast good luck in their future endeavors.
I still feel like that season ending where Sam and Michael jump into the cage should have been the ending of the whole show, what was that season 5 or 6? It would have been one of those show endings that really stays with you because of how bitter-sweet (mostly bitter) it is.
That was season 5. I tried watching the following seasons but after reaching the first couple of episodes in season 7 I just gave it up. I erased them from my mind. honestly, is such a great show if you end it at season 5.
@S.A. yeah, I think I watched all 15 season and it was mostly shit after 5. Especially the mother of monsters and the leviathan arcs, the only good arc after S5 was probably "killer dean" with the mark of cain. The Jack thing was kinda interesting but they kinda fucked that up and coulda done better with it.
Honestly I feel like the second to last episode could have worked just fine as a finale I feel like their endings were while understandable for their characters were very predictable Dean always knew he would die a hunter and Sam got his apple pie life but it seemed appropriate character wise and it was nice to see what Jack did to Heaven. Season 15 was about tying up lose ends and it was fine over all but some things felt thrown in like Adam coming back after being locked in the cage since season 5
Biggest disgrace they did was with Michael/Adam. Static characters are viable, don't get me wrong. But Michael became extraordinarily more interesting when he became a rounded character. A character that was open to change and develop, especially when interacting with his new best buddy, Adam. But then that episode happened.....his fight with Lucifer should've been so much more impactful both physically and emotionally. Firstly, the fight between Lucifer and Michael should've been so powerful enough that it would've thrown the world into destruction, at least a large part of it. But the actual fight was some punches, some blasts, and a stab..... excuse me what? And you gonna try to make me believe that Michael, THE archangel, the truest righteous warrior as presented in the show, you're trying to tell me he lost his edge based on 10 years of the cage? Mind you 4 of those years he was without Lucifer. (We also don't know if the Cage runs on regular time or hell time but based on what's been presented no evidence shows it runs on hell time). Plus the fight should've impact Michael on an emotional level, we saw that back in S5 he truly did not want to fight Lucifer but was still stuck in the headspace of God's perfect son. But he killed his little brother so easily without hesitation. There also should've been more interaction with the two, maybe Lucifer drops the snarky act that he picked up along the show and acts like how he did when he first appeared. Now Michael's betrayal was stupid. Back to being brought back as a static character, Michael is someone who believed that his father held him in the highest esteems. But when proven wrong, when revealed that God not only made other versions of Michael but made Lucifer his new favorite, that should've been enough to show Michael that it's been all bullshit. (Also from what we've been shown, Lucifer wouldn't want to be God's favorite anyways) Michael shouldn't have had to try to win God's approval because he had it for so long but has proven to be worth nothing. And Lucifer shouldn't try to win it either because he has learned to live without it and knows that it isn't worth anything. The finale just really did the development so dirty and was such a let down. Michael is my favorite archangel and I've been waiting years for him to come back, then I was so hype when he did.....then the finale came and ugh lol
Especially since AU Michael hated his father for the same reasons. It was bad writing and the newer writers ruined Michael and Lucifer’s character growths for the plot.
Indeed, as a fan of Lucifer - he's my favorite character in the entire show - I was already skeptical of the way they were portraying him after s5, and by skeptical I mean it felt like he was a completely different character and I would have had less trouble believing that _he_ was from an AU than that this was his real nature, because that wasn't how he had been presented. When he came back in s11, I was disappointed that writers decided to make Hallucifer's personality a real thing (despite the fact that Hallucifer is not real and literally just a hallucination that represented Sam's suffering in the Cage) and ditched the og characterization, but it was still manageable if you managed to overlook that and take it at face value. Starting from s12 though it's just downhill, they clearly didn't know what the hell they were doing with him - I mean he had a kid with a human for fuck's sake, Lucifer, the one angel who is the most notorious for not liking humans - and were just throwing him and the other angels around whenever and however it suited them. His cameo in s15 was so bad he'd have been better off still dead, and that's kind of heartbreaking and just plain sad.
@@mdcbd exactly. The thing that made Lucifer threatening when he first appeared was his calm way of speech and action. And yet he has the power to take on a hotel of Gods. But then he began to just be snarky. He had some quips before but later seasons it just gets ridiculous
@@Mylament_ yeah, there's a difference between a characters who occasionally makes pop culture references in a witty way that somehow makes the scene all the more tense (I mean come on that 'a fiddle of gold against your soul says that I'm better than you' in Swan Song was great) and... Hallucifer. Who was almost a comic relief character, honestly.
I mean they kept Michael just as serious but somehow that was too hard for Lucifer, guess the marketing team really thought we needed more of Hallucifer or something.
I thought the season finale was okay, although it was a bit of a mess with randomly bringing Lucifer back only to die minutes later. Lucifer in earlier seasons would not have been taken down so easily and obviously. The series finale however I thought was God-awful. Dean dies to a nail in the wall, then we see a boring montage of how Sam lives a relatively normal life, although fairly lonely for the most part. I would have preferred they ended on a boom rather than whimper.
As a gay person, I’m so tired of shows/movies/books that have our “representation” being “ambiguous sexuality character finally says ‘hey I’m gay.‘ but uh oh, time to die”
The biggest flaw they did within the ending was trying to CREATE an ending for Sam and Dean. That’s not how life works. There’s a reason why I still think Buffy (and Angel) has the best season finale within a genre like this. Buffy doesn’t have a true ending because there is no true ending. Not even death sometimes in the Buffy universe. There's a wonderful talk by Alan Watts in which he suggests a common human fallacy is the belief that life is a race, or mountain climb, with a serious goal or finish to cross. But sometimes when we live that way, and cross those lines, there is disappointment. Because time quickly moves us past that momentary glow. A lifetime is more like a piece of music, that rises and falls and rises back again. Perhaps then, our great ambition might simply to be present. And that is exactly what Buffy and Angel did. “Yeah, Buffy. What are we gonna do now?” Is the last line in the show and it is never answered by Buffy. We never do find out. Ambiguous endings are the best, especially for a tv series. And Supernatural should have taken notes on how to do it properly. You think they would have considering the show was inspired and even ripped off many Buffy and Angel episodes and ideas. But nope.
The first 5 seasons of this show were superb, it went steadily downhill from there - sure, there were some highlights after this point (mostly the 'meta' episodes, French Mistake, Fan Fiction etc) but I think it never really recovered after Season 6. Season 7 was absolutely horrendous, the worst by a long way... and Mary being brought back at the end of 11, then becoming a regular cast member was when the show really lost me; I felt it ruined the dynamic between the brothers which is what kept me coming back to the series. I also felt that the constant resurrection of characters throughout the series really lowered the stakes and removed any sense of dramatic tension. To me Season 15 would have been a big disappointment if the show had managed maintain the same standard set by the first 5 seasons but I think the final season's quality was about on-par with the majority of the show before it - not terrible but not excellent either.
This. The first 5 seasons were consistently great. The overall plot of those seasons were amazing while post-season 5, you only got a chunk of episodes that were good but the overall seasons themselves were disappointed or straight up bad.
The first five seasons were the best by far but even they were just kind of OK to me probably because this is an older show and other shows Have kind of done Things the show did a lot better so
@@unropednope4644 TL;dr Sorry this got long! Thank you for saying season 7 was okay rather than awful. I then proceed to whine about how the show lost my respect by season 9/10. And that there was missed potential. ----- Thank you, everyone claims to hate season 7, when in actuality it was pretty alright. Like we got Lucifer in Sam's head, sad Dean, kooky Cas, my boy Kevin Tran! The best mom Mama Linda Tran! Also Momma Jody! (?) And best girl Charlie Bradbury! (?) (I think they may have been introduced in season 8 but I think it was season 7 so question marks). Lots of fun characters and interesting plotlines! Purgatory and leviathans were cool! Dick was a fun villian! I remember when people were calling Season 8 Season Gr8. Those were the days. (Minus the creepy Becky episodes. I've blocked those from my mind.) (I feel bad for her actress tbh). And then they absolutely lost me when in a season finale (9? 10?) when Dean turned into a demon. Like I was committed to the show and then they just decided to make Dean evil and bffs with Crowley? Like that was season 6s storyline with Cas. And everyone hated that story! I personally loved it season 6 because I love angst and that was the season I started with, but doing it again with Dean was too much for me especially since Crowley had really overstayed his welcome by the end of season 8 with Abbadon around. I loved Abbadon. She was the superior villian since Lilith, Ruby, and Eve were/are dead (also Meg and Bela but they were only kinda villians). They could've gone straight into a "Abbadon raises Lucifer and Michael while Dean resists the Mark of Cain" or "Dean becomes a Knight of Hell and becomes Abbadon's bff and they sew the seeds of chaos" kind of plotline. But they didn't. The show constantly devolved into the same storylines where it was just Sam and Dean not growing, keeping secrets, and monster of the week episodes. I just couldn't keep going and see them drive the show into the ground. I was just burnt out. I stopped watching the show after that episode and while I really want to see Misha Collins as Lucifer (I've seen the clips) and (Cas in a cowboy hat!) , I don't think I can see Dean mourn Cas another time in what season 13/14?. Season 7 was enough for me. Maybe someday but for now I can revel in fic written prior to 2014 and understand the references. And plan my tattoos since SPN was such a special show to me.
I thought Dean should’ve died and become the next death, Sam should’ve become like an arch angel or something and there would be a time jump where they are trying to do their job and 2 new kids keep breaking the rules of life and death and annoying the fk out of them lol.
When I was watching in season 6 I really thought the end of the series would be Dean becoming the king of heaven and Sam would become the king of hell. They were always opposites, and that would have been a perfect ending for them. Especially because Dean's baited love interest was an angel (twice if you include his brief fling with Anna) and Sam's biggest love interest was a demon.
we had a whole ass season about the idea that lucifer vs michael would raze earth and here we have them throwing a couple kamehameha's at each other and then michael shanking him without even disturbing the paper on the desks. I hate how the show can't keep the power scaling and their own lore consistent.
I’m probably gonna get pretty big crap for this but I don’t think the ship is cannon I know cass loves dean that was obvious for a while but when I see dean it’s more like how he interacts with Sam and Jack. I love the scene and it’s heart wrenching. But I don’t think it’s romantic on deans side but just as powerful. That’s just my thoughts though.
i honestly didnt even know that the scene could be interpreted as castiel being queer, since its established that angels are agender and asexuell. so i thought the ,,i love you" was platonic and just an exclamation how much dean means to him as a human.
@@Shyftus I think that might have been the point, enough to satisfy anyone who ships it without forcing it where those who don't ship it can easily explain it in another way. I think it was still far to baited as a ship, but I'm glad they left it to interpretation.
Honestly this season could’ve been better that’s true, but I’m glad like jensen and Jared said that the show didn’t go on long enough that it would get even worse then this and get canceled. I love the finale and I thought it was the best way for it all to end.
I thought it was weird how castiels powers were failing in the beginning of the season but then all of a sudden are fine again. But as you point out it probably just one of the many plots they drop. I really liked the way they ended the show except the fact that no other hunters were at deans funeral, not even like a call from jody or anything like that.
I really hated they made God the bad guy. Just seems like everyone does that now. Make Lucifer relatable and God bad. As soon as they did that I stopped watching after 15 years.
@@Davidscomix yes I know. Wish people understood what it means to have free will. Though I dealt with a few story lines like this already so not only do I not really care for it it's been used already to many times.
I hated it too but i loved the show to much to stop and to be fair that THING isnt fricking God Chuck isnt God, God is all mighty and cannot be defeated by anything, He created the angels, he created humans AND angels, he could just snap his fingers and Jack would be gone no matter how powerful he is. To say anything is more powerful than God is like saying a baby could beat up a grown man. There isnt a God in Supernatural. that guy was an entitled man child who happened to run the universe nothing more
Yep, Classic Andrew Dabb, too many damn dieas, not enough competance or patience to stick to one, the amount of dropped plots over the last few seasons is insane.
I’ve never been a fan of supernatural and only saw like 2 episodes just don’t get it. However it’s a shame that yet another big pop culture piece of media ended horribly. Game of Thrones Star Wars Sherlock Lost and now supernatural. It’s kind of sad.
The last 5 seasons were kinda bad to be honest. Loved the first 10. But the actors and some good moments kept the show going. The finale was good though. The show ended on a good note and the story felt finished.
I like to think that without Covid and its restrictions, the finale would have done better justice to more characters. On the other hand, the writers should have had more time during quarantine to come up with something less...rushed. Did no one tell them that the series was ending?
I actually liked the final 2 episodes but thank you for not complaining about dean and Cass dying and actually saying why with reasons why you didn't like it
With COVID they really don’t have an excuse for how shitty the writing of the last season was they had all that extra time to work on and refine their story/script but did they maybe which if so I dread the abomination that they were originally going to give us
And i think i can speak on behalf of many fans by saying that since we are all really in this pandemic together, we would have understood if they had taken time to shoot safely with the original ending and just shoot later in safer times and give us the ending later that the disjointed ending we got instead.
The season 14 finale was by far the best season finale out of the series, it literally had me with my mouth wide open in shock for a good 5 minutes watching it . The series finale felt anticlimactic
The thing is there was this one theory that would have made a great season where God was actually the Empty that was stuck there because of chuck and chuck wasn't really God just pretending cause he wanted power. And the boys needed to figure that out and get God out so that he can take his seat again. And maybe bring the angels back and Hod can knock some sense into them. But it was a theory that was so good and the final season was rushed and jumbled and I didn't enjoy it as much. I felt like they could've had it where Chuck was using the ghosts he brought back to lead the boys to him. It would also explain why he isn't as powerful as he said. And that Amara wasn't real as well and something he made up for the story. That would have been cool. And I personally felt like Destiel wasn't real but I still respected the ship and didn't put anyone down for shipping it but that scene was fan service they did cause they thought they were giving what people wanted. (though I can't deny that dean was at least bi or bi curious). But IMO both the boys needed to die
The problem with season 15 begins with the ending of season 14. Chuck making a weapon that could harm him never made sense. Him becoming the ultimate villain set up a season that can’t be satisfying because there is no way to beat him. There was literally one being in Amara that could even stand up to him and she after being locked up since the beginning of creation was cool with him so she isn’t going to betray him. The best part of the season was when they lost their plot armor. These characters fight vampires, werewolves, demons and angels like those characters aren’t super strong super fast and have telekinesis. The only reason they had a shot for 15 seasons was as Chuck stated he liked watching them so he gave them plot armor. The worst part of the season was the last two episodes. Defeating Chuck came out of nowhere and I was hoping that this was the ending he wanted as him without Amara would still obliterate Jack. That’s ignoring Mike turn on them or them coming up with a spell that could kill Chuck. Really the book that is written in the language of angels that the angels didn’t read has something that can kill Chuck n know Chuck cares about that when he has existed since the beginning and has never cared before? But worse than the season finale was the series finale. Dead dies on a random hunt? Why are there hunts? Jack is the new all powerful and he didn’t get rid of demons and monsters? Wasn’t that a beef you had with Chuck, that he let all these things happen to humans? Jack with Cas by his side let monsters still exist in this world? Why when it had to be remade anyway? In the end the show’s mythology seemed to be forgotten as it had been so many times before removing any sense of tension or logic.
Chuck giving Sam and Dean a God weapon that could actually kill him made no sense. I assumed that he would be immune to its affects and it would only be able to work on Jack, but no, Sam tried to kill Chuck with it and if Sam's aim didn't suck all of a sudden, it would have killed him. And you're right about the monster hunts, as I would assume Jack would have banished all these creatures (or cured them to make them human again), but for some reason kept Chuck's plot villains in tact.
@@wallacewallaby5782 Agree 100 percent. Chuck giving them a weapon that could hurt him made absolutely no sense. Just as Jack (with Cas guidance) leaving the earth with monsters made none. After 15 years of battling everything from monsters to the most powerful entities in existence the Earth is exactly the same as it was 15 years ago? That’s supposed to be a satisfying conclusion?
I have issues with not only dean's death (for obvious reasons) but sam's ending as well. I find it extremely hard to believe sam would retire and live out some 50 years to old age considering he knows what's out there. The monsters didn't go anywhere, and are still out there eating people. It's clear sam still worries about it as his kid has the possession tattoo. Considering his heart, I doubt sam would sit around and let people get eaten. I never liked jack. Too strong. As for chuck being the big bad. It makes sense because you can really only go up. They definitively defeated lucifer. God would be the only thing left. I mean, they beat lucifer like 3 times. It started getting stale (as much as I love the character).
It would have been better if it had shown Sam and Eileen teaming up, having a kid, raising him as a Man of Letters. I guess there’s nothing really stopping us from imagining that way.
In season 10, Sam tells Charlie how he came to embrace the hunting lifestyle. But then he concludes, "I can't do it without my brother, I don't want to do it without my brother." It makes sense that he would retire from hunting if Dean wasn't there to hunt with him.
@@annabellewilliams2721 which, like I said about his heart, seems really out of character for him. He made a point of trying to save people, even when he was dying. At best it's inconsistent.
@@wrydrune So you think Sam should have lived a miserable half-life--again, he only loved hunting when he was with Dean--instead of finding something for himself? Plus, as Jared himself pointed out, that isn't what Dean would have wanted for him.
Supernatural will always be my favorite show but the first 5 seasons were what drew me in. It went into a steady decline after that. The monster of the week episodes held it together for me, and Crowley was the best character up until his demise. Jack was just a mess of a character, and the whole God turns bad and Jack can absorb powers suddenly was just a big WTF moment for me. Demons went from being incredibly powerful at first to humans just killing groups of them at once. It just got to be too much. I can watch the first seasons repeatedly, but after that I'll pick and choose episodes because some are just not good imo.
Season 15 did not make sense Period. It went back on everything they said from Lucifer vs Michael fight that will end life as we know it, to God saying in a old season he has now power in the empty and then bringing back lucifer... :(
@@JayTheZoomster he didn't lie tho, that's the problem well a few seasons ago he was telling the truth because of the way he said it also the fact he was pretty much dieing from what his sister did to him. The writers just got lazy and also whoever wrote the last couple of season must of been New. I also wish the original Lilith came back the actress...... Bringing her back was pointless and I speak for everyone when I say I really wish we got a Lucifer and God scene or even Gabriel showing up etc
one thing the season really missed out on is bringing azazel back. season 15 brought back a lot of villains from the past, so why not bring back sam and dean's first big bad? would've certainly been better than bringing lucifer back for the millionth time
Its supernatural people with jack as god now they could come back at any moment. Even jensen and jared said this might not be the last time you see the winchester bros.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who felt this way. I did get emotional seeing that montage in episode 19 but I think that was just my nostalgia since I grew up with the show. Seeing that the series ended on the same meh writing that has been plaguing the show since season 8 is disappointing. But I’m just glad the show is over because I don’t think they could’ve kept going for much longer
Apparently Jensen ackles HATED the season finale and the writers, producers and even Erik Kripke had to convince him to “like” it and that makes me super sad. Also I love Jared but I totally think he was cashing it in at the end because he already had Walker. I also totally think that they originally wanted to lean into Dean and Cas but also wanted to keep the male straight demographic for Walker so decided to drop it instead.
Personally, I never thought they would make Destiel canon, or hint that it is canon because Jensen wouldn't agree to it. Jensen had stated multiple times that he believed Destiel didn't exist. If Jensen didn't want it, I don't think the writers would've written it in the show.
Let's be honest here. They wrote themselves into a corner by making God the villain. It's God. If he really wanted them dead, all he had to do was snap his fingers. There was no story here. God knows and sees everything. How does he not see everything coming and simply stop it? Also, God (according to the myth) can resurrect himself, so even if they somehow killed him, he'd just resurrect. Completely nonsensical.
I never feel sad and cried when Dean or Sam died because I always knew they will comeback somehow but in the last episode I cried like a baby.That's broked my heart but I feel great because Sam and Dean finally got real peace. Each Supernatural episode never disappointed me. Supernatural was like my family.
It makes me sad to say it, but what kept us watching were the actors and the characters. Think about it: when the last time the plot was actually good? Season 5 (there are some good -episode- plots after that point, though). Season 6 through Season 11 were just either 1. A cashgrab. or 2. Pleasing the fans. And don't get me started on Season 12 through 15. You could tell they were pulling stuff out of their ass at that point. And writers and producers should know this by now, but the worst thing you can do is pander to the fans if it isn't supported by the story. I love all the characters and the Supernatural world, but damn are they bad at writing the season's plot after they lost Kripke.
I will say. I do expect them to revive the original series at some point. On like a streaming service. It would be super easy too. Jack is god so, he can do what he wants right? I would actually really like to see a remake of the first 5 seasons made for a more mature audience. I miss the legit horror of the show. I dunno, either a remake or a more adult Logan like envisioning of Supernatural with Deam and Sam a bit older and more beat down by life. Something where they are trying to find their reason to have hope again. I dunno.
Tbh I think the show would’ve been better if COVID wasn’t around. I think that the writers could’ve done way hella better. But I think the ending should’ve been different
I think what happened really, is that the plan was to have another season or at the very least, 24 episodes. Covid fucked them and us..like you said. I agree, an episode with Lucifer, an episode with The Alpha and Omega, etc. It just felt so rushed..all in all, it still put me over the emotional edge to have a show I watched since I was 15..come to an end..I could barely stand..mostly because I thought there was another season coming. One of the worst story ending depressions I ever fell into
No, they announced before season 15 started that it would be the last season. Jensen/Jared/Misha recorded themselves talking about it on set for the announcement. They also said the only thing that COVID changed was the final episode, they had planned for the band Kansas to be playing at the Roadhouse in Heaven when Dean got there, with all the major characters there to greet him.
Watching the final season by binge watching actually was watching for 10 minutes and getting bored over and over again, resulting in doing something else. I kept hoping it was over soon. Your review helps me understand why. Early in the season, I just accepted that the entire season would be devoted to giving cameos to previous characters and giving them a final stage exit.
To be honest, my probably favorite things about this season was the wood nymph episode, that one episode's ending with Jensen singing at the end, Rowena, and the heaven part. Everything else just kinda seemed like a jumbled mess as if there was a bunch of ideas that they crammed together without thinking of how it works with the rest of the show. At least this is my opinion.
My feelings are so, so mixed with the ending. Even though I wasn't very happy with it I do think I'd have preferred the second last episode to be the finale. I can certainly forgive loose ends if it means jack had his Elsa moments and got rid of the monsters which means the boys can retire and finally be free... For Dean to die that way in the very next episode, after fighting so hard for his freedom for such a long time just made me so angry. In another way, it makes sense that Dean died that way and Sam got to live a life and they were reunited in heaven.. that's cool too but I don't like it and I do like it and my feelings are so mixed I'd need to do a full video to explain my feelings too lol. Hardcore fan, even have the antiposession tattoo, but I can't figure out whether I'm mad or satisfied at the end. The last season as a whole I'd say in comparison to some of the better seasons was pretty weak. But I did Love jack unlocking his powers and took gods powers, I always said I wanted that to happen and it was definitely one of my favourite parts of the entire season but then he basically turns into another chuck? Like wtf jack "I'm not going to be hands on, I'm outie" hated that. They were so mad at chuck for leaving and then jack does the same. That sucked. I would have preferred the second last episode as the finale. It gave me room to hope that maybe they got to retire and be free in a world without supernatural Evil.
One thing that really hurt me was how much they made Jack into a beacon of hope for the brothers and for the world, and then had him just dip out. Having him say he will be hands-off, is horrible. Who wants a hands-off God? Sure, we don't want a psychotic Chuck for God, but that doesn't mean a hands-off god is a good solution. Jack could have been so much more, he was supposed to create paradise. Yet Dean dies a few years later fighting vampires? What happened to the paradise Castiel died for? Why would Sam barely crawl through life all depressed until he dies, just like VAMPIRE DIARIES, it is a horribly depressing ending. Even if EVERYONE MEETS IN THE AFTERLIFE. JUST LIKE VAMPIRE DIARIES. It was cheap generic and unoriginal even for CW.
i’m really bummed that Sam’s extended years (season five: the curious case of dean winchester) was never touched on? i mean Patrick stated Sam had won enough years and played well enough that he could join him on the road, but he still dies at the ripe old age of 70?? With his active lifestyle and healthy eating, the man died at 70???? Pacing for the last few seasons were garbage, they would mention something one episode and it never be brought up again. Fortuna was such an interesting character to introduce, but they didn’t even show her influence in a wacky way like narrowly saving them from death or have Chuck acknowledge what she gave them! It would’ve been spooky and sad to have a full episode of walking around a desolate world with no one around, Chuck teasing and tormenting them until the next episode, the season finale. disappointed that they let all that potential go to waste?
I think they had been lining god up to be the major villain since his appearance. I loved the finale, and I especially love how dean goes. Because it shows that they aren't being used as story characters anymore. They are finally free to do what they want without a story teller in the way.
I think 15 was among the worst seasons, but that was only to be expected with Andrew Dabb as showrunner. I remember watching nervously, getting steadily more convinced that I would absolutely hate the finale. Then feeling overjoyed when I discovered that "Carry On" was actually wonderful. I spent the week after in a happy glow.
I agree with everything you said! This is about the only reaction/review I've seen that so closely reflects my own feelings so spot on. I've watched and loved this series since the premier, own the DVDs, go to conventions, etc. I've been INVESTED. So it was heartbreaking to have it end on a season that felt this disjointed and lackluster. Even tho they haven't been vocal about it, I feel badly for the leads because I'm sure they have no real influence over the actual storyline and I can't stop thinking how much more painful it must be for them to have the show they devoted 15 years of their lives to to wrap up this "meh." And then getting to witness social media confirm that pretty much all your fandom feels the same way. That's got to be rough. I'm not surprised Jensen's been virtually silent since the finale.
I feel like the reason why they couldn’t stretch it out and had to cram a multi-plot season is simply cuz they literally can’t make a season 16 anymore
I agree, I think s16 was on the table, but I remember Jensen saying that the conversation of ending the show started isn’t between seasons 13 and 14. The reason they shortened the last 2 seasons was because J2 requested it.
I actually didn't care much for the series finale. I know a lot of the issues had to do with the pandemic (they were supposed to bring a lot of characters back in heaven, I think). I just didn't feel that it accomplished a whole lot. Mostly, Dean died, later Sam died too, and they reunite in heaven. I do agree with a lot what you say about Season 15, and also agree that Chuck's revelation as the enemy doesn't really fit well with what we saw before in previous seasons. Plus, yes, Amara's character was pretty much a complete waste in the last season. They could have done so much with her.
I love this! I feel seen! Its finally a reaction to the whole season (not just the finale), has deep analysis & research, and isn't wholly the "they ruined spn" or "it was great ur all too negative" I keep seeing even 5 months later. I agree with soooo much (though I still dislike the finale - Eileen had bett er have been sam's wife!) and this actually put words to so many thoughts/feelings I had about s15 but couldn't fully grasp. The whole thing just felt like a cosplay show of spn... Edit: YOU DID NOT HAVE TO "running on empty" US!😭
I loved everything but thats because I loved every character. Every one who played in it and I'm glad they tried to fit everyone in somewhere as a goodbye cause they all deserved it for working as hard as they did for as long as they did . Castiels love for Dean was a friend and family love not a romantic one.
I mean this as a serious question, I am in no way trying to disrespect your opinion of Cas's confession. But if his love was meant as just a friend... then how did him saying that summon the Empty? Cas has already told Dean he loves him in a previous episode. And what then do you think Cas meant when he said, "Because the one thing I want, I know I can't have."? Plus, the episode writer has talked about how he stayed on through s15 ONLY so he could write this episode and Cas's love confession. Also, in a video with Misha, Mark S, Ruth C, plus the episode director, they talked about and confirmed that Cas made a "homosexual declaration of love to Dean." (their direct quotes.) Granted, it is never confirmed how Dean feels about Cas, so I agree Destiel is not fully made canon. But I DO think the show confirmed Cas's feelings for Dean, and Misha has stated since he knew before the season started how his character would end with the love confession, that is what he based his acting on in s15. The show even did a Neilson feedback form before s12 sent out to a set number of viewers on how they would feel if it came out and was portrayed on screen that Dean was bisexual. Obviously, they didn't get the desired feedback and it was dropped... but that is why we saw s12 tilting slightly that way. I guess I just don't understand why so many fans would have had such an issue if Dean WAS bi. He would still be a complete badass, still like women, etc. And Dean never saying I love you to Cas is in NO way out of character for him. I don't think Dean would have said it with words regardless of how he felt. He never told anyone that he loved them except once to Mary. His love language has always been actions. We saw him literally break apart and want to literally die after Cas died. We saw him break when he felt Cas betrayed him. Over and over we saw what Cas meant to him and vice versa. We see repeatedly Cas saying he fell, he rebelled, he gave up his army... FOR DEAN. Metatron said the same.. that he "cloaked himself in the flag of heaven, but ultimately it was about saving one human." Cas existed for thousands of years, and yet it was only DEAN who brought about these feelings and actions in him. Truthfully, if Cas was in a female vessel with the EXACT same storyline...would you consider theirs to be a love story?
@@paradoxgrl I do not consider it a love story because no where in the whole series did Cass ever sleep date kiss any males. IT was always woman until that episode .I relize they came out and said that to appease some people however it doesn't make.any sense.
If you want to hear my thoughts on Supernatural's golden era of Seasons 1-5, my new retrospective is now out! Go check it out if you're interested! ua-cam.com/video/OWLajpyQGFI/v-deo.html Part 2 where I talk about seasons 6-7 is also up here: t.co/k2PKXTWSiD?amp=1
Good writing isn't all cliffhangers. Good writing is setting up something having a small run and then on to something else so you don't get the same tired stuff. Something clicked with the series that made it last 15 years. The violence got a little tedius but it fit the story line. There was purpose not just putting it in because it was easy. It wasn't non stop blood shed. Character development of Sam and Dean was subtle but noticeable if one paid attention. Any morals to the episodes was up to the watcher if they were looking for any. The series stopped before it got tiresome. It hurt seeing what happened to Dean but his evolution made his passing more tear jerking and now that the brothers are with each other again forever you couldn't ask for anything more.
What im disappointed is that on the same last episode, they had shot the vampmime on the head although the shot wont kill them but at least it will slow them down. But somehow silly enough they struggled fighting just using machetes without shooting them on the head then slashing their heads off. Suddenly they became dumb although they had hunted monsters for many years almost their whole lives. What a disappointment! And also what i dont understand is, if Cass loves Dean but why he ignored Dean after Jack took over. Also i dont know why they ignored that the crossroad demon who drove the police car with that arrested girl. I thought there will be a story related to that girl.
This season was killed by CoVid like the season and series finale could’ve been made better otherwise. I like the idea that season 15 could’ve focused more on all these monsters returning and each episode dealt with that. Like all the main villains of each seasons with some episodes dealing with the returning alphas or something. When you have this beloved series it’s going to be hard to end it in a way that works especially with the whole God being the villain.
so true bestie (i just finished my rewatch)
All they had to do was end on ep 19 throw on some Kansas and drive
Supernatural has been introducing and dropping plots and ideas for years now. It's one of the show's 2 biggest flaws at this point. The other problem is that it doesn't keep track of its own lore and constantly retcons things.
It's definitely been a problem for a while. It just really managed to get under my skin in the final season.
@@JayTheZoomster That's probably because a lot of people were expecting a better crafted arc involving Chuck ending all of creation. You were right when you said the season meandered and was rushed at the same time. Everything comes down to the writers blaming Chuck for their own writing decisions and not doing anything to improve.
@@kamui003 how you mean blaming chuck for thier own writer issues
@@FilmFan-iv7sz Ignoring previously established lore for one thing. Until season 15 there was no rule about souls not being able to enter Heaven if they had been to Hell. If that had been a rule then Crowley wouldn't have had to send demons to keep Bobby's soul from Heaven.
There's also the issue of Lucifer being able to kill the new Death despite requiring a ritual to bind the old Death. Even after he did bind Death, he didn't have total control.
My point is that they used Chuck changing the rules as an excuse to ignore a lot of previously established lore and it comes off as kind of lazy.
@@kamui003 I noticed that alot of that but as God was now the big bad I was fine with it doing the god changed rules thing. Plus the soul from hell now can't go to heaven. Far as I recall the only time the boys wanted to get a soul from hell up to heaven was Bobby's so only happened once.
Well original death was just killed with his sythe a ritual was never performed.
*Remember when in season 5 they said, that half of the planet would get destroyed if Lucifer and Michael fought?* and when we finally get that fight, it was such a disappointment, not even a table was destroyed by their fight.
The Amara fight was worse lol
I thought about that too. That really short scene was extremely anticlimactic and contradicted what happened even in Apocalypse World.
Because they never ended up fighting. They got trapped back in the cage
@@Bennysoli think he was referring to this seasons
I was pissed with the whole "god gave them plot armor" notion because I was like... So they were never badass? Great....
Agreed. It was pretty dumb.
I loved it. It circle back to thier accidental meta root episodes but the entire season was meta. It also depends on who you are as a person I guess, For me I believe whole heartedly in God and fate and destiny, So to me it made perfect sense that everything sam and dean had been doing was orcestrated by the creator, That is fine, It's fine because if the creator is orcestrating it , it's actually not that much different from you doing it, Because everything that IS would come from God, so it's just normal reality, And God removed himself from them, Which is actually what happens in my bible as well lol, God removes himself from humanity and things spin into chaos, The parts of God that come into humanity result in things like Christ dying for the sins of the world defeating the devils deeds towards making humans fall away from God.
So me obviously reading all about destiny and God and how soveriegn he is yet still perfect in Love made me not really bat an eye at sam and dean, But I did think it was rediculous that God was doing it for fun or a tv show, and that he could be killed by a nephilm.... My bible mentions them knocked out with a flood lol sure they existed after ward but not even satan is a threat to God... The only thing that made the story Slightly make sense was "death tells dean God built himself into creation and it is his weakness" something like that.. Welp.. Problem.. God still can see the future and snap his fingers, The gun he made... Yeah even if he made that thing able to hurt himself, He could snap his fingers again and undo it. You can't kill God, At the VERY least , God still would SEE IT COMING, They never address "God" lacking his omnicience and omnipresence - Yet Jack gains it .. so stupid
Side note for the non christians - According to the bible Jack wouldn't be just a nephilim, Jack would be the anti-christ, The antichrist is a man that is after the working of satan, This is interpreted as satan inside this man and operating in him, Jacks satans kid, Jesus was God in the flesh, And the Begotten son, the anitchrist is Jesus flipped around, So jack is the antichrist born of satan, instead of being fully God Fully Human like jesus, He is Fully Archangel from lucifers side and Fully human from his moms side.
Jack the anitchrist kills God lol
Side note - Fun fact - Job in the old testiment actually has an argument with God about him acting like a tyrant just like chuck, God doesn't get angry with job, Job says there should be an advocate between humans and God because we are powerless and can not argue with God, Little did Job know Jesus christ would be the living advocate for humans - he was God in the flesh - therefore able to fully argue on humans behalf, and his death paid the price for sin. He was also sent by the father so - Gods main plan all along was that God himself would send a bridge to humanity to save them completly from the penalty of their sins, The father, The Son , And the Holy spirit, One God in 3 persons all working together within to save humanity and undo what satan did in the garden of eden... Supernatural only read the headlines of the bible, Not the fine print. Could have made for some amazing stories of Humans struggle with God, Oh well, I make short films in cali, Guess i'll have to do it lol
The bible actually does delve that deep into the theology of what it means if God exists, A lot of christian hardly know these verses and how huge they are and also how AMAZING they are.
@@jsbaldo5556 not reading all that, but I'm happy for you or sorry that happened.
Sorry for being a year late, but I never saw it that way. Not defending season 15 as a whole or anything, but I liked that episode. I never saw it as God made them bad-asses, but rather skipped the things we didn't care to see. Like Dean getting sick, or them being able to pick locks without a tensioning device and only a rusty nail (this is impossible, btw.) The boys kicking ass is all them, God just takes care of the boring shit that wouldn't add to the show.
@@zamorak6789 Same. They had plot armor in the sense that they survived shit that not even the most badass normal hunters would've been able to survive. And of course u can definitely see that all throughout the series as every hunter or side character eventually was killed by some supernatural being but plot armor always revived the boys. Look at that random episode in season 5 where two hunters barged into Sam and Dean's motel room and immediately shot them and they went to heaven only to be revived at the end of the episode. Like bruh, that doesnt happen to everyday normal hunters
i disagree with you about the last episode and dean dying. i feel like death is so over used for them that them actually living til old age would have been a pleasant surprise.
Fair point! I wouldn't have minded that ending at all, either.
I would have liked to see Dean retire, maybe open up a Roadhouse 2.0. We saw in season 14 that he did dream of having his own bar.
And I wanted to see Sam stay in the life, stay with Eileen, and become a leader- create a network of hunters, based from the Bunker. Get into more Men of Letters type stuff as “lore support” for the network, maybe get into witchcraft a bit.
I think that this would have really shown character development for both brothers. Sam started the show trying to escape from hunting. Dean started thinking that he’d die on a hunt somewhere, never get out of the life, and be stuck as “daddy’s little soldier”. For him to get out of the life and find something for himself would have been such excellent character development. As it was, his dying exactly the way the always thought he would- it was just sad and unnecessary. And for Sam to realise that hunting actually was his calling, would have been great development for him too.
As it is, I feel like the ending just shat on all the character growth they’d had over the years. And their lack of any caring about both Eileen and Cas was just so out of character.
But hey, at least I’ll always have fics, I guess. There’s plenty of them that are far better written than the show.
But that wouldn't have made the finale as emotional as it was if they did that. They actually wanted to make the finale emotional.
@@coolsteve1985 I think they failed, honestly. I wasn’t emotional- unless you count slightly pissed off and rate her disappointed? I don’t think those were the emotions they were going for.
But a lovely retrospective seeing the boys having lives that are what they want, moving on from that unhealthy codependence, and then moving on to a (much better organised) heaven? Yes, I would find that emotional in a good way.
Actually, if im not wrong in a scene of the last episode, you can see a few papers of work or houses, cant remember, but Dean was ready for a normal life, unfortunately, didnt happened):
My ideal ending literally would have been them, in the impala, talking about their next case and having some jokes thrown between the two. I would have loved for the final shot to have been of the impala driving down a road as it pans out, leaving us to wonder what the boys got up to after the show ended. Call me simple, but this would have been far more satisfying and fulfilling in comparison to what we got, as I feel it would be a reminder of where the show began - the two of them hunting simple cases. Maybe a nod to all the people they met along the way would have been sweet too!
Agreed
Agreed - 15x19 should have been the end, with them driving off and that great montage. Completely open-ended on what happens next.
I can't agree. That's basically how Angel ended and I hated them for it. When a show ends it should end. Not have you wondering,"what happened next".
You aren’t simple, ur logical, it would have been perfect they get their happy ending and that leaves the fans happy. They expect us to believe dean dies to a nail after all they’ve been thru and didn’t jack have god powers and cared about Sam and Dean so much, I don’t think that he would let that happen
I agree . It’s why I liked the buffy ending , say what you want about the last season the ending was good because it was tense but simple . They defeat the big bad , they save the world , and then they just keep going . I would rather a series end on an open note and leave you wondering what could happen next that fully close that book in a way that makes you wonder why you bothered following these characters in the first place -_-
The thing i dislike the most about the show is how it conatantly kills characters off and then brings them back again over and over and then expects me to think it's true or have an emotional reaction.
Yeah, that definitely got annoying over the years!
Every time Cas gets killed. "OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED CAS! YOU BASTARDS!"
@@hrhhrhrh Laughing! They killed Cas! You bastards! *waves hand in the air*
Cas was killed and brought back every season. It made no sense. I think the writers didn't know what to do with him.
@@Granger15 I don't think they did. To be honest, even from S6/7 it felt like they didn't know what else to do with him.
By S9, I was convinced that the fan base was the only reason he was still around
For me SPN's biggest sin is banking so much on found family but still making it a point that the only really important thing are the brothers. They contantly kill off and ressurect people for shock value or when they don't know what else to do with a character. With a few exceptions like Bobby, Charlie and some of Cas's many deaths (except the literal most important one at the end -_-) they manage to make a lot of deaths feel unimportant, like yeah it's sad but the boys get over it real quick don't they? Dean throws around a lot of "X character is Family! I would die for them! They are like a sibling to me..." and then that character dies in the next episode and life goes on... I don't mind that the ending focuses on them specifically, what I mind is that it feels like all other characters needed to be unceremoniously dealt with so they are not in the way of the brother focused ending. It was unnecessary.
I know it became a meme, but that whole "family" thing really pissed me off as time went on, since neither of them seemed to give a crap that their half-brother was trapped in a cage in the deepest depths of hell!
Yeah, this is what I hate about the finale the most two. The concept of found family, their friends and family...at least Charlie should have been there, or Ellen and Joe....you know, a few they really had a close relationship with.
The ending sucked, and Dean's final death scene was lame as Hell.
I find hell to be cool.
I agree.
YES
Fucking agreed
Dean went to hell and back many times before... died from a nail.
I sincerely think an open ended option wouldve been the best way to go. the boys drive off in the car, we dont know exactly what happens, just that they finally have their free will and can choose what happens next. let the fans decide what that "next" looks like
I love that idea
Lol I read " the boys drive off a cliff"
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Would have been really funny ngl
the entirety of the last 3 seasons made me want to curl up into a ball and die
imo the only good thing to come out of them was jack
I’ve been on season 14 for months. Probably will never finish it.
@@sparksfly5877 Trust your gut and don't
I 100% agree with this comment. The last 3 seasons is where this show became unbearable to me
@@sparksfly5877 I watched 2 episodes and decided I couldn’t take it anymore. I just skipped everything and looked up what happens. I no longer cared about spoilers, deaths, plot twists, or emotional scenes. That’s what happens when you’ve been milking a show for 10 years repeating the same formula over and over again. Eventually it wears off and becomes meaningless
I couldn't stand the finale, it was totally unsatisfying to me - I had no desire to see the boys die, heaven as their peace means nothing to me (especially with Dean just... waiting to see Sam. Who he just saw. And knows he will see again eventually. And should want to live a nice long life and therefore *not* see too quickly. And maybe instead want to see some *other* people he misses.). I felt that Sam should have stayed in the hunting business as a Bobby figure, running the bunker with Eileen, and Dean should have started up a Roadhouse-style hunter's bar. They're both in the life still, but disconnected from it, close to each other still, but not codependent and living their own lives. And I wanted Cas back as well but I didn't expect that in the actual show - that'll just have to live in my mental version of everything instead. The season itself, like you said, was totally meh. Not awful, not great, just really obvious that the writers room was disconnected & didn't know what they wanted.
Don’t forget that Sam and Dean were soulmates. It was referenced a number of times in the series that they would share a heaven so it makes sense when Dean said that heaven wasn’t perfect without Adam. It was a nod back to them being soulmates.
You should write a fanfic on this idea. I'd totally read it if you did lol.
To me, the side characters were the best part of the show. Sam and Dean feel like dicks when they get all "it's just about us" attitude and don't care about all the people who love them and have sacrificed so much for them. And that's something show constantly flip flops on. Sometimes it feels like supporting characters ARE important, like Charlie or Bobby or Eileen... And then they're just unceremoniously dropped and never mentioned again.
In the final season, Chuck said something about how all those people don't matter, how he wants to go back to the basics with just Sam and Dean... I wondered if that was the writers speaking through him 😄
First seasons with just Sam and Dean were great, but I think it elevated their characters when they had other characters to interact with. Be it Bobby making sure they don't fight too much or lose sight of things, or be it Charlie who brought out the more caring and fun-loving side of the brothers.
I just wanted to know that all my beloved characters got satisfactory endings (and some of them did), but it felt like show just pushed them aside like they never were important.
He did, his son was a hunter ...didn't you see the tattoo?
I’m choosing to believe this is what actually happened and choosing to forget the real plot.
I honestly thought that Chuck would turn up in the series finale and reveal that the previous episode was only a joke to let the boys think they could win.
Lol, I would've loved that 🤣
Yh that would have been far better. I just hate that they make god the villain and he loses. What do u mean you just killed god? Why? For free will? You have it. The reason he pays attention to this version of you is because you are more interesting than the others. All of them have free will otherwise none of you would be different.
Literally! On live television, they teased the new episode by showing the boys walking off set and I was like “WAIT PLOT TWIST????” And I thought that was the gimmick
Honestly, I would've loved season 15 if they fought the empty instead.
Same. In fact, I thought the tiny role the empty did end up playing in the season was super disappointing.
@@JayTheZoomster oh I 100% agree. The empty being the big bad would've given mystery and satisfaction. Better than what we got
That would have made much more sense, agreed.
I like how you Think here... Agreed about the Empty. But Killing that (Clown Character Chuck) "God", Had to be pushed for Reasons. Just like when they gave Jack his Birthday Cake and told him to make a wish, He blew out the Candle which represents The Light & Killing the Light was more fitting with the World etc.. "Lights Out".. As soon as Jack blew it out, it cut screen and ended Episode. So even tho YOUR Idea would have been Awesome,. I see why they did it like that with Fighting God. I actually Love the Show and Cried like a Baby.. Emotional.. I did feel that sting tho when they were standing over Chuck The God after Ending him and said,. No One Will Remember You And You Will Just Disappear From The World.. They Meant that ish... The message was Strong.
I only recently got into Supernatural, but the last season seems so different from the first ones that have me hooked. The monster of the week episodes are so good because they focus on character, their inner life and relationships and developments. And then you get an ending where the four mains are just caricatures of themselves? Even as early as season three, Dean was more than a hunter and Sam was more than a normal guy. Hell, you could see it even in the first half of season one.
Yeah, but they grew a lot over the years. Sam no longer wanted a normal life. He wanted a hunting life with Dean. And who are you referring to as the four mains? Sam, Dean, Castiel and ?
@@peacefulpossum2438 They hardly even grew post-Season 5. Literally almost every season were the same shit over and over again. Something bad happened to Dean or Sam, one of them kep secret then shit got exposed, one of them died proceed to the next season, the one who died got revived and bad shit happened all over again. It's like they didn't learn anything from their mistakes pre-Season 6 and every season was like a fresh restart for their characters.
@@zeroskaterz92 I agree that the repetition season after season became ridiculous. That’s what I find frustrating about the finale because it indicates that post-Chuck, they settled in together with Miracle and developed a contented kind of domesticity and Dean was applying for a law enforcement job. Perhaps, Sam reading while doing laundry suggests he may have been going back to school. I wish we had seen more of that life.
@@zeroskaterz92 YES THIS!!!! I got so tired of them regressing as characters since season 5. Every season they would still lie and keep secrets from each other after just the previous season, agreeing to be truthful and let things happen naturally. It got to the point where I kinda stop caring for them.
i hated monster of the week. never was a slice of life person. way too repetitive
Yeah, I agree with most of what you said except I didn't like the series finale at all, I guess it sounds fine on paper but the execution was so bad, anyway, the characters and the actors are what kept me watching for this long and I am excited to see the cast in future projects.
That makes sense. The finale definitely has issues, I just found it to be satisfying enough.
The Boys season 3 is next for Jensen 😄
This is honestly the best reaction to the finale that I've seen so far. I was not a big fan of the finale because it felt like a rando episode mid season 4 or something. What I do love is how factual and in depth your analysis is. I also love that this shows that Destiel Shippers aren't upset because the finale didn't have Cas. Most of us are just confused and disturbed by the jarring end and the same problems you addressed. It's just a lack luster ending no matter who you ship. Thank you for your great analysis!
Exactly. It made no sense, and it was completely against character for both Sam and Dean. That’s what really pissed me off- it was basically a character assassination.
@@katherinemorelle7115 Absolutely. Like they had no real reaction to Jack becoming God? Up until now they cared so much about him and helping him be a normal kid but now they are like "peace". And didn't even pursue all their new friends. The staging with Dean's room was beautifully done since It showed he was grieving but Sam and Dean didn't even talk about Cas for more than a minute or two only one episode after Dean begged God to bring him back? It just seemed disjointed. Especially with no mention of Amara and Billy suddenly being a villain out of nowhere really. Up until now Billy was a very reasonable character who only wanted balance in the universe. Why did she suddenly have to be a villain and why did suddenly Amara not matter? Just like Billy, all she really wanted was cosmic ballance. Things just felt very disjointed.
@@ariananichols7827 I hated what they did to Billie's character. It made no sense. She would've been happy to have Jack in charge because it would've created balance especially if she'd been the one to reap Chuck/God.
@@yellohcards totally. Especially since Jack wants to be a hands off God who allows life and death to be up to the people and their actions. He doesn't want to be like Chuck who decided everyone's fate and brought people back countless times to fulfill what he wanted. Jack and Billie really both wanted the same thing: peace and order. They could have been an amazing duo and just just duo at that
You're 10000% right. I don’t ship Dean and Cas, and I thought it was absolutely SHITTY that they did not include a character as important as Cas in the ending. The three of these characters were treated like shit, even Sam living out his life in that way was a disservice to who he is. Dean didn't deserve to die like that just after gaining his autonomy. Cas didn't deserve to get fucking murdered like that without the writers even TRYING to have Sam and Dean save him. It just makes no damn sense. They truly are "chapped-ass monkey[s] with a keyboard" (Chuck in Swan Song).
The thing is that Jack was such a lousy concept in general.
He is a walking deus ex Machina.
God as an antagonist is the same issue as power scaling issue in DBZ.
The plan to kill god was trash.
He spent his time snapping people out of existence.
How is the best down in character.
Asside from the fact that god is out of character but he never felt like a Lovecraftian Eldridge horror as an antagonist.
Oh yeah, Jack always had issues.
My guess is they replaced Adam with a younger version to save money . So they created this Jack guy. The actor Adam wanted more money probably. Jack storyline was what killed the show. It became the Jack show
Yeah, that's right. Finaly, someone said it. I hate Jack's storyline. It couldn't let our boys be who they are. It robbed them and us of precious screentime they diserve.
@@lijastojkovic7516 Thats whay im saying this show was about the Sam and Dean all along. Watch the First 4 seasons which is the best ones and yall know why. Jack was some said excuse replacement for Adam and antichrist narrative. Antichrist didnt make sense when it was Sammy.
The series finale felt like to me making the last 15 seasons a waste of time, because the characters don’t really grow, they get the ending they want back when the show started but not the ending these characters should grow to have. Feels like so much development just got tossed out the window.
You're right. They totally were reverted to their seasons 1-5 selves.
Same, I totally agree with you, I could probs watch any season from 1-5 and then the season finale and, albeit a bit confusing as to why they want to kill God, it'd make sense and that honestly sucks :/
I like how your take on season 15 supernatural is a mix of the type of fans in the Supernatural fandom all in one option. You disliked the season because of the narrative, you felt that felt that Destiel was queerbaited, you didn’t like 15x19, you were satisfied 15x20, you felt the San wig scene was bad, you felt the show was good to end it with just Dean and Sam, you felt that they should’ve acknowledged Castiel, and you were satisfied with Dean’s death
Its interesting to see one person to have all of these combined
Oh, yeah I never thought about it that way but I guess you're right!
I was pissed about the lack of Eileen and Cas. Eileen does, is presumably brought back, but we never see it, and we never see Sam care? What? He loved Eileen!
Same with Cas. They mention that he’s offscreen in the finale, but Dean doesn’t care? Doesn’t try to see him? Even if Dean didn’t return Cas’ romantic love (and that was deliberately left unanswered), he did still very much love him. We’ve seen how Dean reacts to Cas’ death before- he literally tried to kill himself, he was so broken up about it! But all we got was a single sentence, and then nothing? What?
I also feel like they just shat all over the theme of found family in the finale. It ended up being about the blood family only (with the exception of Bobby). It was so incredibly disappointing.
Especially after they set up the season to deal with Dean and Cas’ relationship. The fighting, the breaking up, the realising they’re better together, Dean apologising. Even if it was only romantic on one side, that doesn’t really matter- it was still an extreme to important relationship (platonic or not), and they just threw it away.
I will still probably revisit my favourite episodes. But I doubt I’ll ever go back and watch the last season again.
This was a great video, thank you. I also recommend Media Buzzkill’s videos- one on the story of Destiel. I recommend it for shippers and non shippers alike. I think for shippers it’s a great retrospective on why that relationship mattered so much, and was so awesome. For non shippers, it’s a great look into why people did ship them, without being overly pushy about it.
And her video on why the final season was not great, was also excellent. Really delved deep into the themes of the show, and how much the writers of the final season just didn’t seem to understand them anymore.
You took the words out of my mouth. Thank you!!😂
I don't think cas meant that in a gay way. We know he wasn't gay as he had 2 different girlfriends in the series (to be fair, one of them he was amnesiac). Dean had multiple girls. Neither of them had any boyfriend's whatsoever. I think it was cas finally loving someone as part of a family, like a brother. Or like how the angels were supposed to love humanity to begin with.
@@wrydrune Cas had already told Dean, Sam, Mary, and Jack that he loves them in a familial way. Misha Collins said that Cas's confession in 15x18 was "a homosexual declaration of love". Cas was IN love with Dean. I'm sure Misha knows more about Cas's feelings than you or I.
The idea that it’s homosexual ... Cas is in a male identified human meat suit but he is a non-gendered being. He’s had female hosts as well, but okay, he identifies as male so he’s bi. Fair enough. Within the show, Castiel’s feelings are unrequited. No, I’m not counting foreign dubbing changes.
On the found family thing. Dean calls a number of people brother - Cas and Benny immediately come to mind - but it doesn’t mean what it means when he calls Sam brother. We have to remember that Sam and Dean are canonically soulmates. As Dean indicates, heaven isn’t perfect without Sam, and that’s a references to early seasons that Sam and Dean would share a heaven. That’s good writing.
@@peacefulpossum2438 that's my point. I think cas was saying it as dean's level of family. Cas finally realizing what real familial love was, which is why the empty took him, because he was finally, truly happy.
Things escalated up until season 5 and then hit a point where it's hard to go anywhere afterwards because the stakes got raised so high. Having a season that CAN serve as a good finale does that. So the seasons afterwards suffered a big dropoff in quality but slowly recovered and managed to progress to a point where you had another season that could have served as a good finale; that being season 11. After S11 you had the same problem as you had after S5. It didn't recover this time.
100%
You are so right after season 11 the show tanked to a new low
I felt the deans ending was a little rushed into the episode
The boys attacked a vamp nest at night by parking in the driveway and walking in the front door 🙈
Honestly if it weren’t for the amazing actors I probably wouldn’t have kept watching spn for years.
Edit: okay don’t count Jared in the amazing actor after season 8
I wish the ending was a lot better
@@JackXX91 Yeah definitely
Honestly, I never though either of them were particularly good actors, but I did enjoy the chemistry they had.
@@wallacewallaby5782 I personally think Jensen and Misha did good but Jared got worse after the years :/
I was never a big fan of the show in the first place probably because I had different expectations of what it was going to be going in but for me the actors weren’t even the greatest the main characters were mostly unlikeable and made the dumbest choices out of many TV characters I’ve seen but it did have somewhat of a watchability factor with the like monster of the week thing they did which was kind of interesting but overall the show felt kind of like a spoof of an actual supernatural TV drama not to mention even in the early seasons the show had absolutely no real horror factor or element to it whatsoever
this season felt like it was improvised from episode to episode
Sam's death and Dean's monolog in the end of season 2 made my cry like literally when I rewatch it years later I still cried.. But season 15 last episodes just so bland like the combination of "meh" and "seriously? This is the last episode after 15 years?"
It should've end at season 5, I think lots of the fans doesn't really need a happy ending if it just as crappy as this, what happen with the so called "blaze and glory" ending?? Now I just want back my 10 years that I spent for watching this show went downhill
IMO if they were really looking for a happy ending then they should have ended it at the season 11 finale and just remove all the British man of letters introduction and put in place the boys being happy to have mom back
I could live with that and be happy enough. After all I believe season 12 is where it went from going downhill to drowning underwater
But yes otherwise should have left it at season 5 and just remove Sam from under the street light while leaving everything else as is and perfect
How do you go through that whole season without mentioning the huge gaping plot crater? Seriously.. Ruby and Aniel working together when Ruby had never met an angel...
Oh I could go on for hours about every issue caused by that one single episode. It's plentiful. Usually continuity issues don't both me because I feel like they're pretty minor a lot of the time and the story being told is still enjoyable, but nah, that episode broke canon AND was boring.
ruby DID meet angels in season 4 tho 🤔
@@themischief420 oh right.. she did. I do still remember Aniel saying she came down when the angels fell at the end of season 8 and she took extra time finding the perfect vessel. That didn't lend well to the story about the two of them working together... 4 seasons apart.
One retcon I couldn't stand was the whole "a soul from hell can't go to heaven"😐. REMEMBER IN SEASON 8 WHEN ONE OF THE TRIALS SAM HAD TO DO TO CLOSE THE GATES OF HELL WAS RESCUE A SOUL FROM HELL AND SEND THEM TO HEAVEN!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT DID I JUST HALLUCINATE THAT HAPPENED!!!!!! Man Disney isn't as bad with their Retcons.
Yeah. Worst part is they tried to be like "well God wanted that soul to go to Heaven so it works" when that's such a flimsy argument since God created the trials to be done by a human who maybe didn't even interact with him.
@@JayTheZoomster that notion is also ridiculous because it's shown in the Supernatural Universe God doesn't have anything to do with that. It's that dude with the abacus and it's essentially the individual's choices that decide it. I will always love this show and that's why I will be critical about it.The last few seasons suffer from the same issue the Sequel Trilogy suffered from, too much extravagance in the storytelling and no respect for details or source material.
They also said an angel had to let them pass and Naomi let Bobby go to have, remember?
@@Davidscomix well I think that was more Naomi stopping Crowley from dragging Bobby back to Hell. Remember it's not the angels who decide who goes up or down it's the reaper guy with the abacus, well at least now apparently. But hey at least the final episode was satisfying.
Making god the villain was just a bad decision imo
I just remembered the early seasons, and how wonky the power scaling is. In season 5, Zachariah literally snaps away Sam & Dean’s internal organs. He’s not an archangel, much less god or death
I enjoyed it up until that damn finale. 19's was a better "ending". The "riding into the sunset" ending on 19 was satisfying enough.
I like the series finale a good bit, but I honestly think the ending with the montage and everything was terrific. It's almost like the show wanted to give us two endings but it feels wasted since they went with such a final ending for the actual finale.
It was ruined long before that. I absolutely love this show and these characters but the overall story after season 5 just kept getting less interesting. The "monster of the week" episodes were really what kept me coming back.
What was the biggest issue for me and what I realize when Supernatural has its issues where certain Showrunners taking over a set of seasons. Ranked:
Eric Karpe (Season 1-5/Golden Age)
Jeremy Carver (Season 8-11)
Sera Gamble (Season 6-7)
Andrew Dabb and Robert Singer (12-15)
As you can see the seasons 12-15 were where I started to notice problems.
The following 12-15 have major retconning with it’s lore, disrespect towards characters like Kevin, Adam, Michael, Cas, Jack, or Amara, disrespect to some supernatural creatures as well, untouched concepts, major unanswered plot holes, power scaling, too many fillers like season 14 and using those fillers to get rid of major plot opportunities like killing off AU Michael in an episode about hunting a Gorgon.
I never liked the plot twist with Chuck being the final big bad due to philosophy teachings. An evil creator like Yaldabaoth I get but an evil capital ‘G’ God? That’s just ridiculous and what Chuck represents is us writers in the real world only he has personality traits of a psychopath and sociopath and literally that’s what is written in his character page personality heading. A fanfiction writer that loves to torture his own characters and never give them happy endings. Also God having written out Sam and Dean’s lives bugs me because it flouts everything about the characters and their struggles as it says well the reason why it all happens is because they were merely doing their scripts so all their mistakes were not real as it had simply been written out and so you can no longer hold it against them for their choices as it’s wrong since it was all dur to Chuck’s manipulation and it makes them less slightly relatable as again nothing had been real for them so it throws everything a person would have gone through in a crazy and dangerous life right into our faces.
I hated how angels and reapers were reduce to jobbers as I realize now that entities like angels aren’t meant to appear as a regular which is why you hardly see angels in other supernatural shows like Shadowhunters, Teen Wolf, or TVD, TO, and Legacies (their angels in novels are called Guardians). They’re too damn powerful and so you’d have to nerf them which they did and made them look pathetic along with reapers no longer being as these scary beings that you’d run from to prevent death back in Eric’s Supernatural.
I also realize that the showrunners nerfed even Archangels by adding in too many weaknesses and not being the guys who once can create their own dimensions, creatures out of thin air, their fight destroying the entire planet, defy description, hardly can be stopped by wards like even handcuffs as they are God’s first strongest creation and so it makes me wonder the whole multiverse travel restrictions as Balthazar a regular common angel was able to use a spell to travel into the world very easy without a complicated spell that requires Archangel grace and I believe Raphael helped Virgil get back so that is flouted as you’re saying a coming angel can travel through universes but an Archangel, a primordial angel can’t? Bullshit!
I like Jack but after looking back thanks to writing a Supernatural story I saw now the character could have faced some mental struggles like not being evil like his father and going depths into the Nephilim lore and perhaps Cambion due to Antichrist and all and perhaps grow more mature due to having to grown up faster, especially since Jack was expose to war in Apocalypse World and it would have scarred him but he walks off like he’s unaffected and it’s good he retains some innocence but show off that he is haunted by what he witness over in that world
Adam/Michael for the worse disrespect out of every character with hardly any screen time but character development and they just reduce him to a daddy’s boy.
Kevin they just kept using the poor guy as their whipping boy by giving him a bad ending and even though Jack changed Heaven, we can assume he’s in Heaven but it would have been best if we saw and I know COVID prevented that but we could have had mention that he’s okay or seen him at a far distance because of regulations
Cas he was sort of just there and kept being disrespected by becoming every villain’s person punching bag and I feel that people don’t know what bad ass means as simply stabbing someone alone isn’t enough as badass unless the person he’s killing is someone very important or defeats them in an awesome way. Stabbing someone like Duma isn’t badass as it’s like “eh”. Okay he killed her wow that’s badass *using sarcasm*
I also feel like he didn’t do much in season 15 and Destiel is fine as a bromance but all the shippers are going nuts with them as movers which I don’t have a problem but dial it down for goodness sake as it feels fan service now
Amara while some of you can dislikes her, I don’t care I loved her but I feel that she was disrespected in episode 15x17 with being betrayed and getting rid of her a fate far worse than death as her being absorbed by God and later deciding to stay inside Jack was bad! Because you’re saying someone is at peace when they just got backstabbed by someone they could trust and they’re happy? Give me a freaking break. It’s equivalent to a person locking themselves inside their rooms and never coming back out as they are depressed. Heck it’s practically like her being locked by the Mark of Cain again and since she’s a character that can’t be killed they went with this for her fate. Bullshit!
Also Amara was already said to be stronger than Chuck even on his best days but in 17 she says she needs four Archangels to fight her brother when it’s strange she needed any help so plot over logic. Considering she’s immensely powerful with Chuck needing help and it was a barely manageable victory to seal her away by weakening her and suddenly she needs help? Bullshit!
Heck I believe that Chuck could have been defeated in that episode because you have someone stronger than him, a Nephilim who is stronger than four Archangels combined, Michael, a Cambion that is walking somewhere on the Earth or Queen of Hell’s magic capabilities.
Also Amara is a primordial entity so I’m sure she has a green thumb to perhaps grow a Leviathan blossom after killing one so Sam and Dean can make the spell to lock him up and bam!
Chuck defeated as he’d get destroyed by such an op team up and we can have Amara and Jack getting to know each other as I wanted to see that but sadly no.
*Sigh* writers love to drag it out and wanted more angst between characters when we don’t need any angst anymore as we get it. Just stop torturing Sam and Dean.
Also it was a major redeeming quality of turning on her brother for all she did in season 11 and she still got the redeeming quality with her intent being to help Sam and Dean but she was disrespected and it was all for nothing.
Lucifer appearing is great but I feel that he’s been reduce to a weakling and no longer this terrifying and powerful entity as he was this really this feared and respected entity back in season 5 but ever since coming back they overused him to the point that he’s like a record disk. In season 13 he shattered and when they try to make him come back they manage time glue him but shatters. In 15 with little appearance he had they taped the disk and in a matter of minutes it’s permanently broken and useless.
Lucifer was reduce to a jobber and made as a laughing stock. He lost his Devil Big Bad presence. The Devil a major villain isn’t meant to be used as a recurring/minor character as it ruins them.
The concepts that could have been touched down were the Lovecrafts seen in season 13 like Yokoth. Or Heaven falling but that was mentioned and never focused on.
The seasons leave too many plot holes like Jack making the Empty loud as that feels like something that shouldn’t be ignored, Ruby, crossroad demon making deals again in 15x15, or other things that preceded season 15. Laying so many wrappers not thrown in the trash bin properly. Good thing we have Fanfictions to cover that.
I also understand that Jeremy’s Supernatural had concepts they could have touched down and some like Metatron was boring and that Amara and Dean chemistry was pointless which I hated as well of trying to make a romance which is what ruined things in 15x17 as Amara made it clear in season 11 that she only wanted Dean as company to not be alone once Creation was destroyed but writers decided nah she loved Dean and wants him to love her back. So much for getting over someone.
I learned an interesting concept with what could have been done with the bond like Dean being force to become her champion and become Demon Dean again as he was short lived in season 10.
AU Michael hardly appeared and they did make sure he didn’t like Dean holding him back. I can’t help and feel it seemed bias to how Dean does things better than Sam as Sam was barely able to keep Lucifer at bay and somehow for weeks Dean can keep an Archangel much less one stronger than his version Main Michael? Wow really lost the emphasis on the season making AU Michael as a big bad and killed him off in a filler as they probably didn’t know what to do with him just as season 12 killed off Crowley because they didn’t know what else to do with an amazing character like Crowley.
The ending left me without closure due to many underrated characters getting disrespected and the plot holes. I was depressed for a while. Luckily again we have fanfiction stories that exist so I got peace and the closure I needed. I understand again the pandemic changed the ending but it still doesn’t make me happy with what we got as I feel like the show could have been postponed when restrictions were lifted a bit with social distance after the pandemic calmed down a bit.
Really refreshing commentary. Great insights. I personally got fatigued with the angels and demons theme. Despite liking early seasons Cas, Zachariah and the gang, I started to wish Kripke hadn’t introduced angels. Lucifer as comic relief was especially infuriating.
I agree with almost everything you said, it was all very well written and I give you props to that. The only thing is when you say Amara is stronger than God, that was all God's doing by faking it and making that the story (like you said how it sucks cause everything the winchesters have done is pretty much useless cause it was god controlling them the whole time) so in reality he is still much stronger than her
To me and others jack is basically a retcon character to replace Jesse Turner the half human half demon child from season 5 I really hate the fact that Andrew dabb and Bobby singer decided to not bring him back instead they decided to do the hole storyline with Lucifer impregnate Kelly Kline god that was so disgusting I think dabb thought he could do better well he didn't 🤯😠😡🤬🤢🤮
I realize this is old, but you really summed up all of my thoughts on this final season super eloquently. Great job man!
I think that writing an ending to a show that’s been on for so long is obviously going to be hard. There’s been A LOT of plots, characters, and development in the course of 15 seasons/years. Dean always thought and wanted to die on a/the hunt while Sam wanted a normal life with career, wife, and kids. I finished my rewatch a couple weeks ago and to me, it appeared that starting season 8, Sam gave up on the idea of having a normal life since he gave it a shot with Amelia and in the end it didn’t work out. He wasn’t true to himself hence that conversation he had with (I believe) Amelia’s father about him running away from something. In season 13 believing to have saved the world, Dean talked about settling down, quitting the hunter life that surprised Sam, and going to the beach to relax since they-Sam, Cas, and himself- deserved it. The finale, once again MY OPINION, would’ve suited the series if it had ended with the early seasons. The show started with Sam and Dean and by season 4 it seemed to have revolved around them and the family they found. By season 14 the show seemed to be more about found family than 2 brothers. But yes I do believe Sam and Dean were the core of it. I didn’t like the finale and I don’t think I will and I do respect those who do like it. It could’ve been worse though.
*** I didn’t/don’t intend to anger anyone. And if you do like the finale I totally respect your opinion, this is just mine. And of course this wasn’t my only issue with the finale and don’t want to list them all out since I don’t want to spread more hate. Even if we were given another finale good or bad there would still be people hating on it. I do appreciate and am grateful for the actors’ hard work.
I completely get you! I also agree in some aspects, I just felt like the finale worked enough.
I can list many reasons why I liked the finale and I actually mention every now and again how much I liked this show's finale when the convo is about shows. I just wanted to chime in here and say I like how you present this as your opinion and respect the fact that some people liked the finale. I think everyone perceives the show, the plot, the characters a little or a lot differently. It's really awesome to hear other people's perspectives and why they liked or didn't like certain aspects. It's thought provoking and just fun to chat about a piece of art like that.
I felt that season 5 was the last true season. And they just let that ball keep rolling. What I think really killed it before the final season is when they started with the multiverse. They killed so many characters they had to pop over to the the next universe to get them back.
I would like to buy the DVDs (as a Christmas present for myself). Should I just buy a box set with season 1-5 if I can find it? I wanna go on the same journey as everyone else, but it seems like from what everyone is saying, the journey became lackluster and disappointing. I don't want to spend money on lackluster and disappointing.
@@matxalenc8410Don't know if this question is still relevant, but yes. That's what I did. Bought up to season 5.
To me, the whole season was amazing other than 15x19 and 15x20 because everything was out of character for Team Free Will. NOTHING they did made sense.
That Episode when Chucked showed Sam the future if they killed chucked and they always died in a vampire hunt , see they had no free will in the last episode as dean dies in one
@@showmethemanni It defies the whole purpose of bringing angels into the show honestly.
I want to think that due to covid restrictions they couldn't do a better job in the finale.
But i can't understand why nobody showed up to Dean's funeral. Come on! It's f***ing Dean Winchester! A legend amongst hunters, and no-one comes to show him some respect?
I don't like this ending on so many levels. I think some parts of ep.20 were to be put in ep.19, just for closure, and ent it with a longer episode (maybe 1 hour long) where our boys "carry on" with their life riding their beautiful car in the sunset.
Your description of the final season as a "mixed bag" in my opinion is spot on, it did give us an "ok" ending and had me tearing up a bit and it definitely was better than the final episode of a series also featuring myths and monsters that shall go unnamed. 15 seasons is too many, and many of SN seasons can be described as hit and miss but every season had a hidden gem here and there. I wish the whole cast good luck in their future endeavors.
I still feel like that season ending where Sam and Michael jump into the cage should have been the ending of the whole show, what was that season 5 or 6? It would have been one of those show endings that really stays with you because of how bitter-sweet (mostly bitter) it is.
That was season 5.
I tried watching the following seasons but after reaching the first couple of episodes in season 7 I just gave it up. I erased them from my mind. honestly, is such a great show if you end it at season 5.
@S.A. yeah, I think I watched all 15 season and it was mostly shit after 5. Especially the mother of monsters and the leviathan arcs, the only good arc after S5 was probably "killer dean" with the mark of cain. The Jack thing was kinda interesting but they kinda fucked that up and coulda done better with it.
Honestly I feel like the second to last episode could have worked just fine as a finale
I feel like their endings were while understandable for their characters were very predictable Dean always knew he would die a hunter and Sam got his apple pie life but it seemed appropriate character wise and it was nice to see what Jack did to Heaven. Season 15 was about tying up lose ends and it was fine over all but some things felt thrown in like Adam coming back after being locked in the cage since season 5
It absolutely could've worked! And I agree, some things definitely felt thrown in.
Adam should have returned earlier.
@@Michael_the_Drunkard he totally should there were more then enough chances to work him in but waiting till the end felt like a messed up idea
Biggest disgrace they did was with Michael/Adam. Static characters are viable, don't get me wrong. But Michael became extraordinarily more interesting when he became a rounded character. A character that was open to change and develop, especially when interacting with his new best buddy, Adam. But then that episode happened.....his fight with Lucifer should've been so much more impactful both physically and emotionally.
Firstly, the fight between Lucifer and Michael should've been so powerful enough that it would've thrown the world into destruction, at least a large part of it. But the actual fight was some punches, some blasts, and a stab..... excuse me what? And you gonna try to make me believe that Michael, THE archangel, the truest righteous warrior as presented in the show, you're trying to tell me he lost his edge based on 10 years of the cage? Mind you 4 of those years he was without Lucifer. (We also don't know if the Cage runs on regular time or hell time but based on what's been presented no evidence shows it runs on hell time). Plus the fight should've impact Michael on an emotional level, we saw that back in S5 he truly did not want to fight Lucifer but was still stuck in the headspace of God's perfect son. But he killed his little brother so easily without hesitation. There also should've been more interaction with the two, maybe Lucifer drops the snarky act that he picked up along the show and acts like how he did when he first appeared.
Now Michael's betrayal was stupid. Back to being brought back as a static character, Michael is someone who believed that his father held him in the highest esteems. But when proven wrong, when revealed that God not only made other versions of Michael but made Lucifer his new favorite, that should've been enough to show Michael that it's been all bullshit. (Also from what we've been shown, Lucifer wouldn't want to be God's favorite anyways) Michael shouldn't have had to try to win God's approval because he had it for so long but has proven to be worth nothing. And Lucifer shouldn't try to win it either because he has learned to live without it and knows that it isn't worth anything. The finale just really did the development so dirty and was such a let down. Michael is my favorite archangel and I've been waiting years for him to come back, then I was so hype when he did.....then the finale came and ugh lol
Especially since AU Michael hated his father for the same reasons.
It was bad writing and the newer writers ruined Michael and Lucifer’s character growths for the plot.
Indeed, as a fan of Lucifer - he's my favorite character in the entire show - I was already skeptical of the way they were portraying him after s5, and by skeptical I mean it felt like he was a completely different character and I would have had less trouble believing that _he_ was from an AU than that this was his real nature, because that wasn't how he had been presented. When he came back in s11, I was disappointed that writers decided to make Hallucifer's personality a real thing (despite the fact that Hallucifer is not real and literally just a hallucination that represented Sam's suffering in the Cage) and ditched the og characterization, but it was still manageable if you managed to overlook that and take it at face value.
Starting from s12 though it's just downhill, they clearly didn't know what the hell they were doing with him - I mean he had a kid with a human for fuck's sake, Lucifer, the one angel who is the most notorious for not liking humans - and were just throwing him and the other angels around whenever and however it suited them. His cameo in s15 was so bad he'd have been better off still dead, and that's kind of heartbreaking and just plain sad.
@@mdcbd exactly. The thing that made Lucifer threatening when he first appeared was his calm way of speech and action. And yet he has the power to take on a hotel of Gods. But then he began to just be snarky. He had some quips before but later seasons it just gets ridiculous
@@Mylament_ yeah, there's a difference between a characters who occasionally makes pop culture references in a witty way that somehow makes the scene all the more tense (I mean come on that 'a fiddle of gold against your soul says that I'm better than you' in Swan Song was great) and... Hallucifer. Who was almost a comic relief character, honestly.
I mean they kept Michael just as serious but somehow that was too hard for Lucifer, guess the marketing team really thought we needed more of Hallucifer or something.
I thought the season finale was okay, although it was a bit of a mess with randomly bringing Lucifer back only to die minutes later. Lucifer in earlier seasons would not have been taken down so easily and obviously. The series finale however I thought was God-awful. Dean dies to a nail in the wall, then we see a boring montage of how Sam lives a relatively normal life, although fairly lonely for the most part. I would have preferred they ended on a boom rather than whimper.
As a gay person, I’m so tired of shows/movies/books that have our “representation” being “ambiguous sexuality character finally says ‘hey I’m gay.‘ but uh oh, time to die”
The biggest flaw they did within the ending was trying to CREATE an ending for Sam and Dean. That’s not how life works. There’s a reason why I still think Buffy (and Angel) has the best season finale within a genre like this. Buffy doesn’t have a true ending because there is no true ending. Not even death sometimes in the Buffy universe.
There's a wonderful talk by Alan Watts in which he suggests a common human fallacy is the belief that life is a race, or mountain climb, with a serious goal or finish to cross. But sometimes when we live that way, and cross those lines, there is disappointment. Because time quickly moves us past that momentary glow. A lifetime is more like a piece of music, that rises and falls and rises back again. Perhaps then, our great ambition might simply to be present.
And that is exactly what Buffy and Angel did. “Yeah, Buffy. What are we gonna do now?” Is the last line in the show and it is never answered by Buffy. We never do find out.
Ambiguous endings are the best, especially for a tv series. And Supernatural should have taken notes on how to do it properly. You think they would have considering the show was inspired and even ripped off many Buffy and Angel episodes and ideas. But nope.
The first 5 seasons of this show were superb, it went steadily downhill from there - sure, there were some highlights after this point (mostly the 'meta' episodes, French Mistake, Fan Fiction etc) but I think it never really recovered after Season 6.
Season 7 was absolutely horrendous, the worst by a long way... and Mary being brought back at the end of 11, then becoming a regular cast member was when the show really lost me; I felt it ruined the dynamic between the brothers which is what kept me coming back to the series. I also felt that the constant resurrection of characters throughout the series really lowered the stakes and removed any sense of dramatic tension.
To me Season 15 would have been a big disappointment if the show had managed maintain the same standard set by the first 5 seasons but I think the final season's quality was about on-par with the majority of the show before it - not terrible but not excellent either.
They lost the original creator after season 5
This. The first 5 seasons were consistently great. The overall plot of those seasons were amazing while post-season 5, you only got a chunk of episodes that were good but the overall seasons themselves were disappointed or straight up bad.
Season 7 was hardly horrendous. Yeah it wasnt nearly as good as 1-5 or even 6 (which I love) but it had some great moments.
The first five seasons were the best by far but even they were just kind of OK to me probably because this is an older show and other shows Have kind of done Things the show did a lot better so
@@unropednope4644 TL;dr Sorry this got long! Thank you for saying season 7 was okay rather than awful. I then proceed to whine about how the show lost my respect by season 9/10. And that there was missed potential.
-----
Thank you, everyone claims to hate season 7, when in actuality it was pretty alright. Like we got Lucifer in Sam's head, sad Dean, kooky Cas, my boy Kevin Tran! The best mom Mama Linda Tran! Also Momma Jody! (?) And best girl Charlie Bradbury! (?) (I think they may have been introduced in season 8 but I think it was season 7 so question marks). Lots of fun characters and interesting plotlines! Purgatory and leviathans were cool! Dick was a fun villian! I remember when people were calling Season 8 Season Gr8. Those were the days. (Minus the creepy Becky episodes. I've blocked those from my mind.) (I feel bad for her actress tbh).
And then they absolutely lost me when in a season finale (9? 10?) when Dean turned into a demon.
Like I was committed to the show and then they just decided to make Dean evil and bffs with Crowley? Like that was season 6s storyline with Cas. And everyone hated that story! I personally loved it season 6 because I love angst and that was the season I started with, but doing it again with Dean was too much for me especially since Crowley had really overstayed his welcome by the end of season 8 with Abbadon around.
I loved Abbadon. She was the superior villian since Lilith, Ruby, and Eve were/are dead (also Meg and Bela but they were only kinda villians). They could've gone straight into a "Abbadon raises Lucifer and Michael while Dean resists the Mark of Cain" or "Dean becomes a Knight of Hell and becomes Abbadon's bff and they sew the seeds of chaos" kind of plotline. But they didn't. The show constantly devolved into the same storylines where it was just Sam and Dean not growing, keeping secrets, and monster of the week episodes. I just couldn't keep going and see them drive the show into the ground. I was just burnt out.
I stopped watching the show after that episode and while I really want to see Misha Collins as Lucifer (I've seen the clips) and (Cas in a cowboy hat!) , I don't think I can see Dean mourn Cas another time in what season 13/14?. Season 7 was enough for me. Maybe someday but for now I can revel in fic written prior to 2014 and understand the references. And plan my tattoos since SPN was such a special show to me.
I thought Dean should’ve died and become the next death, Sam should’ve become like an arch angel or something and there would be a time jump where they are trying to do their job and 2 new kids keep breaking the rules of life and death and annoying the fk out of them lol.
When I was watching in season 6 I really thought the end of the series would be Dean becoming the king of heaven and Sam would become the king of hell. They were always opposites, and that would have been a perfect ending for them. Especially because Dean's baited love interest was an angel (twice if you include his brief fling with Anna) and Sam's biggest love interest was a demon.
A killer clown? No The killer clown, its an actual famous serial killer, John Wayne Gacy.
we had a whole ass season about the idea that lucifer vs michael would raze earth and here we have them throwing a couple kamehameha's at each other and then michael shanking him without even disturbing the paper on the desks. I hate how the show can't keep the power scaling and their own lore consistent.
Seasons 1-5 are where the show itself ended, the rest of it just seems like an after thought.
Has anyone else felt like the shows budget and quality just kept going down and down till the last season?
Didn't help that CW was going broke. Nexstar is now the majority share holder in the company
I’m probably gonna get pretty big crap for this but I don’t think the ship is cannon I know cass loves dean that was obvious for a while but when I see dean it’s more like how he interacts with Sam and Jack. I love the scene and it’s heart wrenching. But I don’t think it’s romantic on deans side but just as powerful. That’s just my thoughts though.
Well Dean has always been straight it's confirmed and for castiel Sexuality doesn't matter since he has no gender
@@Davidscomix good point didn’t think about that
i honestly didnt even know that the scene could be interpreted as castiel being queer, since its established that angels are agender and asexuell. so i thought the ,,i love you" was platonic and just an exclamation how much dean means to him as a human.
@@Shyftus i thought so too but alot of the destiel shippers said it was true
@@Shyftus I think that might have been the point, enough to satisfy anyone who ships it without forcing it where those who don't ship it can easily explain it in another way. I think it was still far to baited as a ship, but I'm glad they left it to interpretation.
Honestly this season could’ve been better that’s true, but I’m glad like jensen and Jared said that the show didn’t go on long enough that it would get even worse then this and get canceled. I love the finale and I thought it was the best way for it all to end.
I agree! It could've ended much worse, but I do like the series finale and how the show ended as a whole.
@@JayTheZoomster can’t wait for your retro videos
I hate how they used Amara. They literally threw her away like nothing. Would have been good if she lived life as a human with Dean.
I thought it was weird how castiels powers were failing in the beginning of the season but then all of a sudden are fine again. But as you point out it probably just one of the many plots they drop. I really liked the way they ended the show except the fact that no other hunters were at deans funeral, not even like a call from jody or anything like that.
I really hated they made God the bad guy. Just seems like everyone does that now. Make Lucifer relatable and God bad. As soon as they did that I stopped watching after 15 years.
I thought I was the only one
@@nicholasmasaaka5619 You at least one other lol
They think God is evil because he doesn't fix every problem people create
@@Davidscomix yes I know. Wish people understood what it means to have free will. Though I dealt with a few story lines like this already so not only do I not really care for it it's been used already to many times.
I hated it too but i loved the show to much to stop and to be fair that THING isnt fricking God
Chuck isnt God, God is all mighty and cannot be defeated by anything, He created the angels, he created humans AND angels, he could just snap his fingers and Jack would be gone no matter how powerful he is.
To say anything is more powerful than God is like saying a baby could beat up a grown man.
There isnt a God in Supernatural.
that guy was an entitled man child who happened to run the universe nothing more
I agree, it's like they didn't big up how huge this could've been, like God vs Man. An all powerful being vs two humans.
The greatest battle, they made it cringe
Supernatural basically ended after Season 5
Yep, Classic Andrew Dabb, too many damn dieas, not enough competance or patience to stick to one, the amount of dropped plots over the last few seasons is insane.
I’ve never been a fan of supernatural and only saw like 2 episodes just don’t get it. However it’s a shame that yet another big pop culture piece of media ended horribly. Game of Thrones Star Wars Sherlock Lost and now supernatural. It’s kind of sad.
It definitely is sad, but it's not that surprising, when things go on for long they tend to lose some direction and luster by the end.
The last 5 seasons were kinda bad to be honest. Loved the first 10. But the actors and some good moments kept the show going. The finale was good though. The show ended on a good note and the story felt finished.
@@ronconnor2694 11 was pretty good, but once Dabb took over in season 12 I wanted to _pass away_
I like to think that without Covid and its restrictions, the finale would have done better justice to more characters. On the other hand, the writers should have had more time during quarantine to come up with something less...rushed. Did no one tell them that the series was ending?
I actually liked the final 2 episodes but thank you for not complaining about dean and Cass dying and actually saying why with reasons why you didn't like it
I'm glad you liked them!
With COVID they really don’t have an excuse for how shitty the writing of the last season was they had all that extra time to work on and refine their story/script but did they maybe which if so I dread the abomination that they were originally going to give us
Don't i Understand your saying supernatural it's nothing more supernatural ok i don't blame it because i watch them for star complaint me
And i think i can speak on behalf of many fans by saying that since we are all really in this pandemic together, we would have understood if they had taken time to shoot safely with the original ending and just shoot later in safer times and give us the ending later that the disjointed ending we got instead.
The season 14 finale was by far the best season finale out of the series, it literally had me with my mouth wide open in shock for a good 5 minutes watching it . The series finale felt anticlimactic
The thing is there was this one theory that would have made a great season where God was actually the Empty that was stuck there because of chuck and chuck wasn't really God just pretending cause he wanted power. And the boys needed to figure that out and get God out so that he can take his seat again. And maybe bring the angels back and Hod can knock some sense into them. But it was a theory that was so good and the final season was rushed and jumbled and I didn't enjoy it as much. I felt like they could've had it where Chuck was using the ghosts he brought back to lead the boys to him. It would also explain why he isn't as powerful as he said. And that Amara wasn't real as well and something he made up for the story. That would have been cool.
And I personally felt like Destiel wasn't real but I still respected the ship and didn't put anyone down for shipping it but that scene was fan service they did cause they thought they were giving what people wanted. (though I can't deny that dean was at least bi or bi curious).
But IMO both the boys needed to die
The problem with season 15 begins with the ending of season 14. Chuck making a weapon that could harm him never made sense. Him becoming the ultimate villain set up a season that can’t be satisfying because there is no way to beat him. There was literally one being in Amara that could even stand up to him and she after being locked up since the beginning of creation was cool with him so she isn’t going to betray him.
The best part of the season was when they lost their plot armor. These characters fight vampires, werewolves, demons and angels like those characters aren’t super strong super fast and have telekinesis. The only reason they had a shot for 15 seasons was as Chuck stated he liked watching them so he gave them plot armor.
The worst part of the season was the last two episodes. Defeating Chuck came out of nowhere and I was hoping that this was the ending he wanted as him without Amara would still obliterate Jack. That’s ignoring Mike turn on them or them coming up with a spell that could kill Chuck. Really the book that is written in the language of angels that the angels didn’t read has something that can kill Chuck n know Chuck cares about that when he has existed since the beginning and has never cared before? But worse than the season finale was the series finale. Dead dies on a random hunt? Why are there hunts? Jack is the new all powerful and he didn’t get rid of demons and monsters? Wasn’t that a beef you had with Chuck, that he let all these things happen to humans? Jack with Cas by his side let monsters still exist in this world? Why when it had to be remade anyway? In the end the show’s mythology seemed to be forgotten as it had been so many times before removing any sense of tension or logic.
Chuck giving Sam and Dean a God weapon that could actually kill him made no sense. I assumed that he would be immune to its affects and it would only be able to work on Jack, but no, Sam tried to kill Chuck with it and if Sam's aim didn't suck all of a sudden, it would have killed him.
And you're right about the monster hunts, as I would assume Jack would have banished all these creatures (or cured them to make them human again), but for some reason kept Chuck's plot villains in tact.
@@wallacewallaby5782 Agree 100 percent. Chuck giving them a weapon that could hurt him made absolutely no sense. Just as Jack (with Cas guidance) leaving the earth with monsters made none. After 15 years of battling everything from monsters to the most powerful entities in existence the Earth is exactly the same as it was 15 years ago? That’s supposed to be a satisfying conclusion?
Fr
I have issues with not only dean's death (for obvious reasons) but sam's ending as well. I find it extremely hard to believe sam would retire and live out some 50 years to old age considering he knows what's out there. The monsters didn't go anywhere, and are still out there eating people. It's clear sam still worries about it as his kid has the possession tattoo. Considering his heart, I doubt sam would sit around and let people get eaten.
I never liked jack. Too strong.
As for chuck being the big bad. It makes sense because you can really only go up. They definitively defeated lucifer. God would be the only thing left. I mean, they beat lucifer like 3 times. It started getting stale (as much as I love the character).
It would have been better if it had shown Sam and Eileen teaming up, having a kid, raising him as a Man of Letters. I guess there’s nothing really stopping us from imagining that way.
In season 10, Sam tells Charlie how he came to embrace the hunting lifestyle. But then he concludes, "I can't do it without my brother, I don't want to do it without my brother." It makes sense that he would retire from hunting if Dean wasn't there to hunt with him.
@@annabellewilliams2721 which, like I said about his heart, seems really out of character for him. He made a point of trying to save people, even when he was dying. At best it's inconsistent.
@@wrydrune So you think Sam should have lived a miserable half-life--again, he only loved hunting when he was with Dean--instead of finding something for himself? Plus, as Jared himself pointed out, that isn't what Dean would have wanted for him.
@@annabellewilliams2721 seems a damned if you do, damned if you don't, situation. He would also be miserable knowing people were getting eaten.
Supernatural will always be my favorite show but the first 5 seasons were what drew me in. It went into a steady decline after that. The monster of the week episodes held it together for me, and Crowley was the best character up until his demise. Jack was just a mess of a character, and the whole God turns bad and Jack can absorb powers suddenly was just a big WTF moment for me. Demons went from being incredibly powerful at first to humans just killing groups of them at once. It just got to be too much. I can watch the first seasons repeatedly, but after that I'll pick and choose episodes because some are just not good imo.
I definitely agree! I think in the future I'll definitely watch the first five seasons over and over. The rest? Probably not.
It was NOT a Game of Thrones or Doctor Who killing legendary work and shows in one to three episodes. It was acceptable.
Ah the shit show that is chibnall's Who, hopefully they might get it fixed in a season or two when we hopefully get rid of chibnall
Supernatural team said even before season 15 started that they do not want to have a game of thrones ending
Season 15 did not make sense Period. It went back on everything they said from Lucifer vs Michael fight that will end life as we know it, to God saying in a old season he has now power in the empty and then bringing back lucifer... :(
Yeah, I really hate how they went back on God having no power in the empty and their excuse was just "he lied". Such lazy writing.
@@JayTheZoomster he didn't lie tho, that's the problem well a few seasons ago he was telling the truth because of the way he said it also the fact he was pretty much dieing from what his sister did to him. The writers just got lazy and also whoever wrote the last couple of season must of been New.
I also wish the original Lilith came back the actress...... Bringing her back was pointless and I speak for everyone when I say I really wish we got a Lucifer and God scene or even Gabriel showing up etc
''Is the corona virus to blame?''
No, people's reaction to it was.
one thing the season really missed out on is bringing azazel back. season 15 brought back a lot of villains from the past, so why not bring back sam and dean's first big bad? would've certainly been better than bringing lucifer back for the millionth time
Its supernatural people with jack as god now they could come back at any moment. Even jensen and jared said this might not be the last time you see the winchester bros.
This is true.
As long as we can see Castiel too, I miss him already... ;_;
Thank you!! Seeing it laid out like this just confirms my thoughts that season 15 was a mess.
It's definitely a mess.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who felt this way. I did get emotional seeing that montage in episode 19 but I think that was just my nostalgia since I grew up with the show. Seeing that the series ended on the same meh writing that has been plaguing the show since season 8 is disappointing. But I’m just glad the show is over because I don’t think they could’ve kept going for much longer
Apparently Jensen ackles HATED the season finale and the writers, producers and even Erik Kripke had to convince him to “like” it and that makes me super sad. Also I love Jared but I totally think he was cashing it in at the end because he already had Walker. I also totally think that they originally wanted to lean into Dean and Cas but also wanted to keep the male straight demographic for Walker so decided to drop it instead.
Personally, I never thought they would make Destiel canon, or hint that it is canon because Jensen wouldn't agree to it. Jensen had stated multiple times that he believed Destiel didn't exist. If Jensen didn't want it, I don't think the writers would've written it in the show.
Let's be honest here. They wrote themselves into a corner by making God the villain. It's God. If he really wanted them dead, all he had to do was snap his fingers. There was no story here. God knows and sees everything. How does he not see everything coming and simply stop it? Also, God (according to the myth) can resurrect himself, so even if they somehow killed him, he'd just resurrect. Completely nonsensical.
That's why this season sucked man 🤦🏽♂️
Should have turned out to be a test from God, that would have been a much more satisfying finale IMO.
Yep
I never feel sad and cried when Dean or Sam died because I always knew they will comeback somehow but in the last episode I cried like a baby.That's broked my heart but I feel great because Sam and Dean finally got real peace.
Each Supernatural episode never disappointed me.
Supernatural was like my family.
It makes me sad to say it, but what kept us watching were the actors and the characters. Think about it: when the last time the plot was actually good? Season 5 (there are some good -episode- plots after that point, though). Season 6 through Season 11 were just either 1. A cashgrab. or 2. Pleasing the fans. And don't get me started on Season 12 through 15. You could tell they were pulling stuff out of their ass at that point.
And writers and producers should know this by now, but the worst thing you can do is pander to the fans if it isn't supported by the story.
I love all the characters and the Supernatural world, but damn are they bad at writing the season's plot after they lost Kripke.
Yes. If Supernatural didn’t have the same actors it would have died long ago. Seasons 1-5 were truly special.
I will say. I do expect them to revive the original series at some point. On like a streaming service. It would be super easy too. Jack is god so, he can do what he wants right? I would actually really like to see a remake of the first 5 seasons made for a more mature audience. I miss the legit horror of the show. I dunno, either a remake or a more adult Logan like envisioning of Supernatural with Deam and Sam a bit older and more beat down by life. Something where they are trying to find their reason to have hope again. I dunno.
Tbh I think the show would’ve been better if COVID wasn’t around. I think that the writers could’ve done way hella better. But I think the ending should’ve been different
I watched the show for Sam, Dean and Cass.Later on only for Jensen Jared and Misha
If i watched it for the action id have dropped it by season 6
Fair enough!
I think what happened really, is that the plan was to have another season or at the very least, 24 episodes. Covid fucked them and us..like you said. I agree, an episode with Lucifer, an episode with The Alpha and Omega, etc. It just felt so rushed..all in all, it still put me over the emotional edge to have a show I watched since I was 15..come to an end..I could barely stand..mostly because I thought there was another season coming. One of the worst story ending depressions I ever fell into
No, they announced before season 15 started that it would be the last season. Jensen/Jared/Misha recorded themselves talking about it on set for the announcement. They also said the only thing that COVID changed was the final episode, they had planned for the band Kansas to be playing at the Roadhouse in Heaven when Dean got there, with all the major characters there to greet him.
@@paradoxgrl then they have no excuse for how terrible the last episode was.
Watching the final season by binge watching actually was watching for 10 minutes and getting bored over and over again, resulting in doing something else. I kept hoping it was over soon. Your review helps me understand why.
Early in the season, I just accepted that the entire season would be devoted to giving cameos to previous characters and giving them a final stage exit.
To be honest, my probably favorite things about this season was the wood nymph episode, that one episode's ending with Jensen singing at the end, Rowena, and the heaven part. Everything else just kinda seemed like a jumbled mess as if there was a bunch of ideas that they crammed together without thinking of how it works with the rest of the show. At least this is my opinion.
i didnt like how Dean died, but my GF pointed out he died saving two brothers, and that made me feel better about it.
My feelings are so, so mixed with the ending. Even though I wasn't very happy with it I do think I'd have preferred the second last episode to be the finale. I can certainly forgive loose ends if it means jack had his Elsa moments and got rid of the monsters which means the boys can retire and finally be free... For Dean to die that way in the very next episode, after fighting so hard for his freedom for such a long time just made me so angry. In another way, it makes sense that Dean died that way and Sam got to live a life and they were reunited in heaven.. that's cool too but I don't like it and I do like it and my feelings are so mixed I'd need to do a full video to explain my feelings too lol. Hardcore fan, even have the antiposession tattoo, but I can't figure out whether I'm mad or satisfied at the end. The last season as a whole I'd say in comparison to some of the better seasons was pretty weak. But I did Love jack unlocking his powers and took gods powers, I always said I wanted that to happen and it was definitely one of my favourite parts of the entire season but then he basically turns into another chuck? Like wtf jack "I'm not going to be hands on, I'm outie" hated that. They were so mad at chuck for leaving and then jack does the same. That sucked. I would have preferred the second last episode as the finale. It gave me room to hope that maybe they got to retire and be free in a world without supernatural Evil.
As much as I prefer the series finale as an episode, I would've been okay with that montage and them driving off as the end.
I hated the series finale the show should had ended in 15 x19
One thing that really hurt me was how much they made Jack into a beacon of hope for the brothers and for the world, and then had him just dip out. Having him say he will be hands-off, is horrible. Who wants a hands-off God? Sure, we don't want a psychotic Chuck for God, but that doesn't mean a hands-off god is a good solution. Jack could have been so much more, he was supposed to create paradise. Yet Dean dies a few years later fighting vampires? What happened to the paradise Castiel died for? Why would Sam barely crawl through life all depressed until he dies, just like VAMPIRE DIARIES, it is a horribly depressing ending. Even if EVERYONE MEETS IN THE AFTERLIFE. JUST LIKE VAMPIRE DIARIES. It was cheap generic and unoriginal even for CW.
i’m really bummed that Sam’s extended years (season five: the curious case of dean winchester) was never touched on? i mean Patrick stated Sam had won enough years and played well enough that he could join him on the road, but he still dies at the ripe old age of 70?? With his active lifestyle and healthy eating, the man died at 70???? Pacing for the last few seasons were garbage, they would mention something one episode and it never be brought up again. Fortuna was such an interesting character to introduce, but they didn’t even show her influence in a wacky way like narrowly saving them from death or have Chuck acknowledge what she gave them! It would’ve been spooky and sad to have a full episode of walking around a desolate world with no one around, Chuck teasing and tormenting them until the next episode, the season finale.
disappointed that they let all that potential go to waste?
But Sam cashed them in for Dean. He didn't end up with extra years.
I think they had been lining god up to be the major villain since his appearance. I loved the finale, and I especially love how dean goes. Because it shows that they aren't being used as story characters anymore. They are finally free to do what they want without a story teller in the way.
I think 15 was among the worst seasons, but that was only to be expected with Andrew Dabb as showrunner. I remember watching nervously, getting steadily more convinced that I would absolutely hate the finale. Then feeling overjoyed when I discovered that "Carry On" was actually wonderful. I spent the week after in a happy glow.
I was so happy when I really liked the finale! Otherwise this would definitely be my least favorite season.
I agree with everything you said! This is about the only reaction/review I've seen that so closely reflects my own feelings so spot on. I've watched and loved this series since the premier, own the DVDs, go to conventions, etc. I've been INVESTED. So it was heartbreaking to have it end on a season that felt this disjointed and lackluster. Even tho they haven't been vocal about it, I feel badly for the leads because I'm sure they have no real influence over the actual storyline and I can't stop thinking how much more painful it must be for them to have the show they devoted 15 years of their lives to to wrap up this "meh." And then getting to witness social media confirm that pretty much all your fandom feels the same way. That's got to be rough. I'm not surprised Jensen's been virtually silent since the finale.
I feel like the reason why they couldn’t stretch it out and had to cram a multi-plot season is simply cuz they literally can’t make a season 16 anymore
Could have made it 25 episodes and stretch out the concepts a bit more
I agree, I think s16 was on the table, but I remember Jensen saying that the conversation of ending the show started isn’t between seasons 13 and 14. The reason they shortened the last 2 seasons was because J2 requested it.
I actually didn't care much for the series finale. I know a lot of the issues had to do with the pandemic (they were supposed to bring a lot of characters back in heaven, I think). I just didn't feel that it accomplished a whole lot. Mostly, Dean died, later Sam died too, and they reunite in heaven.
I do agree with a lot what you say about Season 15, and also agree that Chuck's revelation as the enemy doesn't really fit well with what we saw before in previous seasons. Plus, yes, Amara's character was pretty much a complete waste in the last season. They could have done so much with her.
I love this! I feel seen! Its finally a reaction to the whole season (not just the finale), has deep analysis & research, and isn't wholly the "they ruined spn" or "it was great ur all too negative" I keep seeing even 5 months later. I agree with soooo much (though I still dislike the finale - Eileen had bett er have been sam's wife!) and this actually put words to so many thoughts/feelings I had about s15 but couldn't fully grasp. The whole thing just felt like a cosplay show of spn... Edit: YOU DID NOT HAVE TO "running on empty" US!😭
The biggest let down for me was them not bringing the ghostfacers back 🥲
I loved everything but thats because I loved every character. Every one who played in it and I'm glad they tried to fit everyone in somewhere as a goodbye cause they all deserved it for working as hard as they did for as long as they did . Castiels love for Dean was a friend and family love not a romantic one.
Wrong. Misha confirmed it was a romantic confession.
I mean this as a serious question, I am in no way trying to disrespect your opinion of Cas's confession. But if his love was meant as just a friend... then how did him saying that summon the Empty? Cas has already told Dean he loves him in a previous episode. And what then do you think Cas meant when he said, "Because the one thing I want, I know I can't have."? Plus, the episode writer has talked about how he stayed on through s15 ONLY so he could write this episode and Cas's love confession. Also, in a video with Misha, Mark S, Ruth C, plus the episode director, they talked about and confirmed that Cas made a "homosexual declaration of love to Dean." (their direct quotes.) Granted, it is never confirmed how Dean feels about Cas, so I agree Destiel is not fully made canon. But I DO think the show confirmed Cas's feelings for Dean, and Misha has stated since he knew before the season started how his character would end with the love confession, that is what he based his acting on in s15. The show even did a Neilson feedback form before s12 sent out to a set number of viewers on how they would feel if it came out and was portrayed on screen that Dean was bisexual. Obviously, they didn't get the desired feedback and it was dropped... but that is why we saw s12 tilting slightly that way. I guess I just don't understand why so many fans would have had such an issue if Dean WAS bi. He would still be a complete badass, still like women, etc. And Dean never saying I love you to Cas is in NO way out of character for him. I don't think Dean would have said it with words regardless of how he felt. He never told anyone that he loved them except once to Mary. His love language has always been actions. We saw him literally break apart and want to literally die after Cas died. We saw him break when he felt Cas betrayed him. Over and over we saw what Cas meant to him and vice versa. We see repeatedly Cas saying he fell, he rebelled, he gave up his army... FOR DEAN. Metatron said the same.. that he "cloaked himself in the flag of heaven, but ultimately it was about saving one human." Cas existed for thousands of years, and yet it was only DEAN who brought about these feelings and actions in him. Truthfully, if Cas was in a female vessel with the EXACT same storyline...would you consider theirs to be a love story?
@@paradoxgrl I do not consider it a love story because no where in the whole series did Cass ever sleep date kiss any males. IT was always woman until that episode .I relize they came out and said that to appease some people however it doesn't make.any sense.
Season 15 should have brought it all back to the beginning and used that Sam had demon blood.
If you want to hear my thoughts on Supernatural's golden era of Seasons 1-5, my new retrospective is now out! Go check it out if you're interested!
ua-cam.com/video/OWLajpyQGFI/v-deo.html
Part 2 where I talk about seasons 6-7 is also up here: t.co/k2PKXTWSiD?amp=1
So epic!!!
Good writing isn't all cliffhangers. Good writing is setting up something having a small run and then on to something else so you don't get the same tired stuff. Something clicked with the series that made it last 15 years.
The violence got a little tedius but it fit the story line. There was purpose not just putting it in because it was easy. It wasn't non stop blood shed.
Character development of Sam and Dean was subtle but noticeable if one paid attention. Any morals to the episodes was up to the watcher if they were looking for any.
The series stopped before it got tiresome. It hurt seeing what happened to Dean but his evolution made his passing more tear jerking and now that the brothers are with each other again forever you couldn't ask for anything more.
What im disappointed is that on the same last episode, they had shot the vampmime on the head although the shot wont kill them but at least it will slow them down. But somehow silly enough they struggled fighting just using machetes without shooting them on the head then slashing their heads off. Suddenly they became dumb although they had hunted monsters for many years almost their whole lives. What a disappointment! And also what i dont understand is, if Cass loves Dean but why he ignored Dean after Jack took over. Also i dont know why they ignored that the crossroad demon who drove the police car with that arrested girl. I thought there will be a story related to that girl.
I thought that Demon would come up again, too! Such a weird thread left hanging.
This season was killed by CoVid like the season and series finale could’ve been made better otherwise.
I like the idea that season 15 could’ve focused more on all these monsters returning and each episode dealt with that.
Like all the main villains of each seasons with some episodes dealing with the returning alphas or something.
When you have this beloved series it’s going to be hard to end it in a way that works especially with the whole God being the villain.