Do Miraculous Events (like Virgin Conception) Invalidate Christianity? (Cold Case Christianity)
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Cold Case Detective, J Warner Wallace, examines the presupposition of naturalism as it relates to the reasonableness of Christianity. Are theists the only people who believe in miraculous events? Do Biblical miracles (like the Virgin Conception) make the Christian worldview unreasonable?
Cold Case Christianity Podcast Episode -
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If this dude showed up to investigate the disappearance of my dog I’d ask the police to get someone more competent.
Maybe they should reopen all of his former cases.
Oof!
“Sir, I don’t know what happened to your dog, therefore god dunnit.”
@@pavld335 Oh, that's hilarious.
If he showed up to investigate the disappearance of my dog, he'd be the first person I suspected.
Only when talking to creationists can you hear "Well, It's reasonable to think a virgin gave birth because the big bang is weird."
@S Gloval And yet you saying that does nothing to validate a virgin giving birth.
@S Gloval Gloobal please stop. You know nothing. Not about the Big Bang. Nor about fine tuning.
@S Gloval nah, that's not what it is. I double checked and everything
@S Gloval Then prove his existence and don't waste time. Too bad I know you and have seen your lack of evidence multiple times.
@S Gloval "blah blah blah .... there are only two options, a multiverse or God ... [link to brain dead video]" - it is just a fallacy, namely from ignorance. The video can be summarized to "I don't understand physics therefore god".
The one sentence that wears me out most ... 😧
"I used to be an atheist ..."
😑😩
“...and then I took an arrow to the brain...”
@@MrShigura I had a massive heart attack and it left me brain damaged - also comes to mind. Or in the case of Anthony Flew suffered from the onset of dementia and became a Deist.
@@vestafreyja Well Sure... but then I wouldn’t have been able to use a long exhausted, no longer amusing meme... 🤔
Agreed, but to be fair we should ask Paulogia to stop introducing himself as a "former Christian". Both statements are irrelevant to the discussion.
“I used to be an atheist. But once I learned how lucrative Christianity can be, I became a professional Christian.”
"I'm leaving that bit out. No one would believe me."
- Mark
😆
Mark had little faith in how low the quality of BS detectors would eventually fall.
.... o ye of little faith ...
@@SanjeevSharma-vk1yo The fact that religions have been around for thousands of years indicates that the quality hasn't fallen… it was never good to start with.
@Irish Jester Umm… you said a lot there, but I don't see how any of it is a relevant response to what I said. Sanjeev claimed the quality of human BS detection has fallen drastically since then. I claim it was never good to start with. This is obviously so, since we are still the same variety of human.
The claim that religious explanations give peace of mind seems dubious at best. People of every religion grieve just as much as theists when loved ones die. This makes no sense if you think they went somewhere great, and you'll be joining them soon. I doubt anybody *truly* believes afterlife claims.
@@jursamajyeah, but it helps them pretend the other 99.99% of their life. If they 100% had to believe there’s no afterlife, there would be a lot more people that wouldn’t be able to live their life without having a 24/7 panic attack
"The thing that's celebrated at Christmas" - The Doctor Who festive special...
Nope, they’ve changed it to new years for the last one (Resolution) and the next one (Revolution of the Daleks) (at time of writing)
Used to love the old topgear specials
You forgot about the Star Wars Christmas Special
Blackadder's Christmas Carol for me
@@headp3 Everyone wants to forget about that...
It's amazing the lengths some people go to to try to explain the fact that someone chose to translate a word that means "young woman" as "virgin"...
Back then, all girls were assumed to be virgins. Some lied.
@@classicsciencefictionhorro1665 (Gasp!)
The intentional mistranslation of these virgin birth verses are not in academic dispute. There are abundant scholarly articles about it. The paper trails and sequence of events is well known and understood.
The word used in Hebrew scriptures (Isaiah 7:14) is "almah" ("young woman having reached puberty").
Importantly, the Hebrew word which could have been used, but wasn't, is "bethulah" ("virgin").
When Jewish scholars translated the Septuagint into Greek in the 3rd century BC they translated "almah" into Greek as "parthenos" ("virgin").
So then we got Isaiah's prophecy that the Messiah would be conceived by a virgin instead of by a young woman.
The Gospel of Matthew (Luke copied Matthew's account; Mark and John do not assert a virgin birth) attempted to justify Jesus' divine parentage by tailoring the story of Jesus' conception to match the fulfilment of a prophecy that was never actually made.
In the entire Christian corpus, the virgin birth is found only in the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke.
The Gospel of John (John 1:45) states that Jesus had both father and mother, "We have found him about whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus, son of Joseph from Nazareth".
The earliest Christian writings, the Pauline epistles, do not contain any mention of a virgin birth and assume Jesus' full humanity.
The Gospel of Mark has no birth story and states that Jesus' mother had no belief in her son as having been created by a supernatural being, as if she had forgotten the angel's visit.
None of the Gospels were written by witnesses to Jesus.
Only in the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke is the virgin birth asserted.
The modern scholarly consensus is that the doctrine of the virgin birth rests on very slender historical foundations. Both Matthew and Luke are late and anonymous compositions dating from the period AD 80-100. The earliest Christian writings, the Pauline epistles, do not contain any mention of a virgin birth and assume Jesus's full humanity, stating that he was "born of a woman" like any other human being and "born under the law" like any Jew.
The Gospel of Mark, dating from around AD 70, we read of Jesus saying that "prophets are not without honour, except in their home town, and among their own kin, and in their own house" - Mark 6:4), which suggests that Mark was not aware of any tradition of special circumstances surrounding Jesus' birth, and while the author of the gospel of John is confident that Jesus is more than human he makes no reference to a virgin birth to prove his point. John in fact refers twice to Jesus as the "son of Joseph," the first time from the lips of the disciple Philip ("We have found him about whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus, son of Joseph from Nazareth" - John 1:45), the second from the unbelieving Jews ("Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose mother and father we know?" - John 6:41).
In short “as someone with zero qualifications to comprehend the science related to origin cosmology, I don’t understand origin cosmology. Therefore god.”
Anyone can have a understanding the problem is he doesn't want an understanding , it has nothing to do with qualification and has to do with a person's desire if you wish to understand then you will seek and try and learn if you don't want understanding you want and you'll just dismiss it
@@borttorbbq2556 doyou seriously think Mr Warner has searched the understanding?
If he did in your eyes do neither the seeking NOR has the qualifications, why does the difference matter?
As somebody ignorant of the science he believes science cannot explain it and substitutes god for it out of principle, not due to some inherent knowledge of his.
Somehow "Mark", the writer of the oldest gospel, overlooked this minor fact. His Jesus just turned up at a baptism ritual, and God adopted him on the spot.
John also omitted the birth in his gospel. The “Christmas story” most people know is actually a mashup of Mathew and Luke.
@@douglashogg4848 Yep. Apologists twist their brains into knots trying, unsuccessfully, to reconcile the two origin stories.
Given that we know there never was a census that required their people to move back to their hometown, I think, we can dismiss the whole thing as fiction. No need to waste time on the rest, if they can't even get that detail right.
You don't even need to dismiss it as fiction -- even if there is one mistake, you know it's not the word of a perfect truthful god. It could be mostly true and we would still need to disregard it as divine.
@@incredulouschordate god: almost, but not quite, right. :)
Indeed. That was either a deliberate lie or a mistake. Whatever option its something so simple yet a historical matter of fact the bible should not be wrong..
I always thought that was a really bad idea, even as a Christian. If everyone goes to their hometown, who’s caring for their house/crops/animals while they’re gone? What if you can’t afford to travel? How would the census takers know whether you needed to travel to your “hometown” unless there were regular censes and records? Is is your birthplace that counts, or your family’s “lineage” as Luke 2 says of Joseph?
So many questions, but i never asked any of them because I’d already gotten GWIMY/“just have faith” answers to previous Biblical contradictions I’d noticed, like Cain’s wife
@@alisaurus4224 There would simply be no sensible rationale for a census undertaken for taxation purposes to have people traveling to their location of origin. You would actually want to take the census data relative to the location of their taxable property or places of residence where they can be located for tax collection. It's prima facie evident that the census story was fabricated to provide a rationale to have Jesus born in the prophesied location even though he was reputed to come from a family who lived elsewhere.
Wouldn't the supernatural instantly become the natural the very moment we discovered a way to detect, study, and test it? "Supernatural" always seems to be a label slapped on things we currently don't understand in a natural way.
They leave out one important step: make sure there IS actually an occurrence to explain, before you look like a real fool by calling it miraculous. "Virgin birth" would be a good place to start...
@@annk.8750 there's a species of Mexican whiptail that is an exclusively female species they are essentially all clones the thing is is that it is also thought that humans may be capable of this though it has never been observed so we don't know whether or not a virgin birth would be possible or not either way I would disagree about that being a point to start at, I think a better one would be telekinetic abilities as those would be able to be demonstrated if they exist
@wolfie Butler
Telekinesis has been investigated for about a century or so, with negative results. It suffers from much the same problem as other supernatural claims, in that there has never been a credible mechanism posited, and it would break every known law of physics.
"Even as an atheist I accepted the reality of certain supernatural events". Sure. I live in the Netherlands and all my friends are atheist, still half of them believe astrology works. One can be an atheist and have a stupid epistemology. I'm not surprised an ex-atheist confesses to believing in magic. But don't project that on me, I do not believe that anything miraculous or supernatural ever happened. That kind of "even some atheist believe in bullshit, so why shouldn't I" makes me roll my eyes.
Well said. There are ignorant atheists too.
@OcasioCortez 4prez2022 > I'll be open to the idea that the supernatural exists once someone gives a satisfying definition of it, as well as falsifiable predictions. The problem is that as soon as it is done, this becomes natural. If the supernatural influences the natural, then it can be verified, measured, modeled, like any other natural process. I have no clue what "supernatural" can even begin to mean. And if the supernatural has not effect whatsoever on the natural, then nobody cares.
The problem is is astrology does not appear to have any factual basis in reality as far as we can tell the alignment of planets or even the face dates of atoms in this surrounding area appear to have no effect whatsoever on the well-being of a person, for example I'm a Leo but you want to know something I'm the person that goes and I sit in the corner who does not really interact much I'll just send the corner drinking my booze maybe have a little dance with my girlfriend but most of the time I'm just chilling in the corner by myself, which is the complete opposite of what a Leo is supposed to be.
I will say however I'm sure that there forms of energy that are yet to be discovered that some people may have the ability to manipulate we don't know we don't have the means test that yet either there will come a place and a time when we can though so we will see
@@borttorbbq2556 Then you are not a "proper" Leo. :) I am a Libra and mentally unbalanced.
In the police force in J. Warner's town, he was likely transferred from the normal "hot" case effort to the slower Cold Case section, where impulsive decisions don't result in injury or death.
If Wallace were to use all this mental gymnastics in actual physical gymnastics he wold be an amazing body builder! Lol 😂
"Muh mental gymnastics"
Dumbest atheist argument
hardly, if he were as bad at it as he is at his mental gymnastics.
@@gabenorman747 When the mental gymnastics are accurately described and revealed as being just that, it's a fair statement. Those kind of gymnastics are performed by hundreds of different gymnasts adhering to different gymnastic schools, all claiming their's the best. Clearly not possible.
@@gabenorman747 argument? You have such low standards for what it should be an argument (a coherent series of reasons and statements to support a point). Clearly I was just describing wallance’s convoluted line of thought with a couple of funny words.
@@ottonormalverbrauch3794 It's stupid and meaningless. Anyone can say it about anything.
Naming a scientific theory without understanding the science or being able to do the math doesn’t make the theory supernatural.
Imagine a teenage girl telling her father today "dad I'm pregnant!"
and he replies "What?! WHO WAS IT! WAS IT PETE?"
and she is like "oooh noo.... it was nobody dad!"
"NOBODY?!?"
"yes dad, a miracle! god did it! it's gods baby! isnt that great dad? praise the lord! You cant say anything against gods work!"
"ok then"
Believing that story is on the same level as when a white couple has a baby with darker skin and the father asks "wtf happened" and she is like "yeah I drank too much chocolate milk during pregnancy" and he is "ok then, that makes sense".
Sadly some people would believe it or at least convince themselves of similar due to ignorance of biology even now.
this comment deserves a price. its such a good explaination
Saw this guy’s argument coming a mile away - boy do apologists need fresh material
What they need is to produce their god or shut up!
The little material that they have they had to squeeze out of a pomegranate in the upper Himalayas.
@Pat Julian Darkmatter2525's Cave video is all too apt for these apologists. Speaking engagements where they get fortunes for telling the gullible that they're actually wise.
Anyone else worried about how many innocents he has brought "to justice" so far?
That has crossed my mind many times.
Every time I hear his name I think this. Just how many people did he frame because he felt he was right...
Oh no. Do people still believe that Christmas is Jesus's birthday?
Considering how many people don't even know what the winter solstice is, much less that celebrations around that time were common in ancient cultures, I'd say, yes.
I would most evangelists do as they think easter is the time of his coughs! death
Sheperds did not sit outside watching their flocks in December. This was done in the Spring when lambs are born. Christmas should be in March / April.
@@jacketrussell Basically, Romans already had a winter solstice celebration called Saturnalia. When Rome became Christian, they gave up polytheism but didn't want to give up the parties so they re-purposed it as a celebration of Jesus instead. That's pretty much the ONLY reason why Christmas is in December.
@@snbalmung
I knew that.
Jim: "Their silence doesn't mean they didn't agree!"
Has anyone heard Jim deny the Earth is flat despite the Bible's claims that it is?
No? Then he must agree the Earth is flat!
/head desk.
The Bible implies but does not say the world is flat. The verbiage makes it possible for the world to be round, square, oval, or almost anything else. Get your facts straight!
Pleas tell me where the Bible said the earth is flat
@@johndavis2589 Job 38 and the bit where Jesus is shown all the kingdoms of the world both require the Earth to be flat. Book of Job refers to the foundations of the world, among other wrong claims.
The writers believed it was flat with a hemispherical dome above called the firmament.
Those are the facts.
@@archapmangcmg this is metaphorical
@@gustavosandoval8044 for what are the diverse and consistent references to the earth as flat a metaphor?
All you christians suggest the ridiculous claims and stories in your book of fables are metaphors or taken out of context, without providing the context or explaining the metaphor. At the same time you're attempting to backpeddle some of the nonsense in your divine book, the most ridiculous claims of virgin births, gods and demons are universally held and proudly professed. The critique of your mythology by rational people is valid, the context correct, and figurative vs literal language understood. We read your book cover to cover, not cherry-picked line at a time, at the same time we understand the believer is incapable of directing critical thought or honesty to their beliefs. The bible is just a book. The problems lie with the believer. The believer doesn't have the skills necessary to discern fact from fiction, nor do they have the desire to learn. The believer doesn't seem to have the time to read what they believe to be the inspired word of the creator of the universe.
Grow up.
First thing I don't believe is someone telling me "I used to be an atheist."
He most definitely was not a philosophical naturalist.
Problem is when you consider that with the inverse. Someone says they used to be a Christian, Christian responds with 'I don't think you were ever a Christian'. It's just a no true Scotsman from the other side of the fence. I prefer to just take them at their word, and expect them to give that same respect in return.
What if they met a professor on a plane? How about a boat, with a goat. They must buy a standard tool kit with all of that in it. Straight out of their backdoor, word for word useually.
Ironically I'd concentrate my disbelief on the word "used". I bet most book-seller-theists (in short famous apologetics) were never a theist to begin with but just pay lip service because they found a money making machine.
Obviously not a golfer.
I found out the apologists Wallace blocked me on Twitter. I don't think I ever interacted with him, so I'm blaming Paulogia.
I spent a week asking ken ham questions to get blocked I've heard he does it manually it seems like he does got blocked a few days ago it was a UA-cam binge that started with paulogia so..... 😂
Christopher Hitchens had a terrific way of making his point! Miss him so! His wit and wisdom.
"Ion Saturnalia!" It's the reason for the season. Seriously. The Christians co-opted the holiday.
And most of the traditions associated with the holiday come from Yule, a holiday honoring Odin and Thor, to the point that people unironically refer to Christmas as Yule because that's what it basically is. 🎅
@@autobotstarscream765 I have literally started telling people I celebrate Yule rather than Christmas for that exact reason.
If you understand what the holiday is really about, you'll know it's the same anyways (without the christian flavoring), if you're an ignorant religious nutjob, it'll drive you crazy.
I wanna be the saturnalia princeps this year!
@@Tacklepig Even the nutjobs have to take a breath and relax about the idea of Thor sharing headspace in the mind of the American people instead of them thinking at all times of Christ alone, and having images of Thor in their homes on Christmas alongside the Nativity thanks to Marvel; good Christian children often pick the (i)dol(l)s, erm, _action figures_ and comic book Scriptures of Thor over the Bible and its heroes for their play and entertainment and nobody, not even the paranoid Satanic Panickers anymore, is worried about it.
Keep Calm and Merry Yule! 🎅
Well, more like it was forced on them and the Jews by the Roman empire. Even when Constantine converted, he still saw Jesus as Sol Invictus. A lot of the cultural imperialism of the Church originated with the Romans, who were a literal empire. That's why we have Christendom.
I'm a simple person: A Paulogia video gets uploaded to my subscription list, I click.
Jim: "Let me smuggle in this bogus claim based on getting science wrong so that it looks like there's already one miracle to make my OTHER bogus claims easier to swallow."
Me: Nope!
@S Gloval Science says life is self-replicating chemistry. Non-life is turned into life every time you eat.
Explained. Your problem is your loaded statement and foundational bias combined with your ignorance or denial of the relevant science.
@@archapmangcmg NICE.
They try to drag us down to their level because they can't make it to ours.
@S Gloval Life is defined by the way it self-replicates. Reproduction is basically the fundamental attribute so yes. If it doesn't self-replicate, it isn't alive.
Look up digestion.
Yes, look up the fifteen or so different mechanisms proposed for abiogenesis. You're trying to dismiss them as impossible so you get the burden of showing they're impossible.
I can't win? I already have. You and every other theist have failed to bring forth a god for us to examine and see for ourselves that it is real.
That alone makes atheism the rational position.
Yes, we love science and technology. You deny science including that discovered by your fellow theists. Your arrogance and hypocrisy are disgusting, YEC twit.
@S Gloval "What does science say about life? That life only comes from life" - Citation needed.
It may be the case that we have only observed life arising from life thus far, but that does not imply that life can ONLY come from life. This is your assertion and requires justification. You are making the same mistake as Jim in the video - assuming that something not yet explained is therefore "unexplainable" (i.e. impossible to explain). That is, unless you are able to prove that life can only come from life? This is like attempting to prove that there are no black swans by showing only examples of white swans
If this guy was a policeman i think all his past cases should be looked at, his reasoning, logic and understanding are flawed.
For real he scares me. Where does he live? I need to make sure I am nowhere near there..
You know, I respect the idea: "If you believe, then believe, and don't worry about it" kind of line that it can be summed up as. Because I'd have a lot more respect and trust towards someone that said: "It's what I choose to believe, even the parts that seem silly to you" than someone trying to tell me about how this is clearly factually true because it says its factually true.
Paul, thank you for your videos and what you do. I'm going through a very stressful time with regard to religion. I'm doing a lot of reading and watching on science, theology, apologia and antiapologia. A lot of it leaves me feeling very depressed or angry. But your videos are consistently reasonable, friendly and calming.
Australian Aboriginals lived here for 60 000 years. Never heard of Moses or Jesus...so the industry is not necessary for a contented life.
Most people fear religion and retribution ..keeps the faithful in line..but is made up for that purpose.
0:12 "It's an essential truth, it's got to be defended" - Defend the faith. Defend the faith. Defend the faith
This is typical of Religion where it requires adherents to defend the claims, not necessarily question and scrutinize it.
The truth does not need defending it is falsities and deception that are the ones that get excused.
Well then, he doesn't understand the big bang, so the natural conclusion is that there was a virgin birth.
I need more coffee, he hurts my head.
Hi from Australia Paul. I hope your channel continues to grow, I believe you should have much more subs than you do!
Hey, thanks!
I second that. These Aussies love your work Paul! 👍👍👍👍👍
I wonder how many people are falsely in jail due to this guy's "reasoning " of "evidence".
His "criminals" are lining up at the door of The Innocence Project.
Would Jim take ANY of this "proof" to a court of law where a felony is involved?
Fortunately there are lawyers and judges involved, so a certain fraction of his evidence gets thrown out
@@MuttFitness - I'd put that fraction of what would be thrown out at damn close to 100%.
Ive actually seen worse in court.
"No, honey! When you heard me screaming 'OH GOD! OH GOD! YESSSSS GOD!!' I was just saying his name! I swear!"
That cold case guy is so reasoning to the desired answer it amazes me he could hold his job ...
I wonder how many innocent people he has sent to prison.
@@kevinconrad6156 none, they were all guilty of something. It might not be what they were sent down for....
owwww that hitch slap, i miss Christopher hitchens rip
When he can prove that an invisible being got a physical being pregnant then i am all up for Christianity. BUT until then extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence "carl sagan"!
Even that is not enough to prove christianity. All that would prove is that certain miracles happened. Maybe the devil did it!
Outside of a small minority of literalists, I get the sense that most christians accept that at least some of the bible is incorrect, either through human error or because it was meant as allegory. But strangely enough the virgin birth and resurrection always escape this judgement, even though they are some of the most unbelievable things in the bible.
Supernatural = imagined. The realm of the supernatural exists in the mind. This one fact explains all ghosts, demons, angels, devils, gods, virgin births, resurrections and Mel Gibson films.
Here's the problem I'm someone who has a fairly sound mind but I'll be honest with you I've seen some shit that I could not explain not with all of my knowledge of science does this mean that it was not a hallucination no but I do believe that there may be things that are not currently explained only time will be able to tell though.
@@borttorbbq2556 Perhaps you were looking down the toilet bowl and looking at the abovementioned faecal matter. In due course, it would be good to see your evidence or evidence(s) if a theist needs them(s)
@@borttorbbq2556 Around 1200BC nearly everyone on Earth believed that supernatural forces caused lightning, floods, wind, fire, life and the universe.. By 1450AD we'd whittled that list down to life, and the universe. By 1850 we took life off that list, and began picking away at the universe. All this time, the "faithful" have moved their god from lightning, to water, to wind, to life, to outer-space, and now that we are exploring space, they moved him outside of space and time. The last refuge for their god is the human imagination,, which is where he's been hiding all along. Admitting this may be their hardest reconciliation ever,, but it will finally bring them peace.
@@borttorbbq2556 All you have is "some shit" and "no explanation". This does not mean there are things not currently explained, though. Just that you don't have one. Worse, NONE of that dribble is ANYTHING, not a claim, not a fact, not even hearsay. It is so empty of content it is a non-claim. WHAT thing did you see. How much science do you know? I've seen lots of things I couldn't understand. How does the differential on a car work? I dunno. What does my lack of knowing this do, though? Nothing. But the advantage to MY claim over yours is I have put enough actual substance to the claim to actually investigate.
As long as you keep your woo weak and unformed, you will never have to face the idea you were just wrong all along.
And that is the why of woo.
Whenever I hear believers (especially evangelists and apologists) say that they used to be atheists, I think of my step-dad who walks out of any church, believing what their pastor teaches.
I am sad to see the police department lowered their standards in hiring detectives ...
: /
I think the standards weren't that high to begin with.. :/
Christmas started out as a series of pagan festivals. And Jesus wouldn't even celebrate Christmas even if it had existed in the form it does now because Jesus was Jewish, if he existed at all.
Evangelicals don't celebrate Christmas anyways
I mean, Jews still tend to celebrate their own birthdays, to my knowledge. Granted though, Jesus probably wasn't actually born on Christmas.
@@lnsflare1 more than likely Christians picked December 25th because it was already an important and popular pagan holiday and it was so popular that Christians decided if we can't get rid of it, will just co-opt it and take it over.
@@grapeshot If you read the bible passage the shepherds were tending their flocks in the fields and sheep, goats are only in the fields in spring, summer and fall and by December the shepherds have brought their flocks in from the fields to over winter them. So the one month that you can safely eliminate is December.
I agree with what you said otherwise/
@@vestafreyja Very true
Why does proving miracles exist always come down to the Cosmological argument? Is there any other example they could use?
Especially because they haven't learned anything cosmologists have learned over the past century. Stuff like inflaton field theory, for example. That's "inflaton" without "i", not "inflation". A negative-pressure scalar field subject to a half-life decay and the uncertainty principle. Boom, you've got eternal inflation and a mechanism to produce universes.
The beginning of the universe is one of the few gaps they have left to fill God with. If they had anything better, they would have used it by now.
@@WolforNuva yup and when you tell them its a fallacy called god of the gaps. some just ignore it
In a word, no. There is nothing else available for them to use.
Consciousness is another favorite example they use. NDE's are also pretty commonly cited.
Wallace would make a great used car salesman, especially if he gets you to sign the No Refunds slip first.
Does this 'investigator' have to breathe so loudly?
The Holy Spirit is in his mouth.
I've been waiting to see someone bring this up. What's the deal?
I hope you're doing well and staying healthy Paul.
Jesus having to be born in two different places and whose birth was in two entirely different scenarios invalidates the bible as a source of what "actually happened", and since "for the bible tells me so" is all that we have FOR the virgin birth, and said virgin birth being a common trope for gods of other religions, this invalidates the claim that we can reasonably believe that christianity is correct, since it is inherently based on what the bible tells them.
Imagine you're a police captain with two detectives. You also have two unsolved murder cases, one of which occurred yesterday and the other one is a 30 year old cold case.
Which one do you put your best detective on, and which one do you assign to your worst detective?
Yup.
That's a hard question the worst detective could probably figure out the one that happened yesterday so it would make logical sense to put your better one over there but then again there's no guarantee the one that's 30 years old would have enough stuff to actually succeed so it might just be better to do it the other way around as you're not going to lose anything by having the worst person do the case that is likely not succeed kind of a pain in the ass thought experiment
@@borttorbbq2556
"the worst detective could probably figure out the one that happened yesterday"
Not true, of course.
I'm more bothered by his sharp breaths than his arguments.
It's a close call, for sure.
I had to stop listening because his sharp breaths were louder than the rest of the video. For the almighty youtube algorithm, i shall continue the video muted and hope the captions are somewhat close
Is it just me, or does he sounds a little too much like Robuttnik in that regard?
ua-cam.com/video/qcRtTaex5Fk/v-deo.html
@@Paulogia how are you going to explain yourself on the day of judgment?
@@samuelcalderwood1379 There will be *no* day of judgement. God was created by men in their own image, and there is *no* evidence to prove anything else. So if god does not exist, jesus does not exist, satan does not exist, and neither does heaven or hell. The supernatural also does not exist.
Answer for things that I can't explain:
I don't know.
That was easy and honest.
The one weird thing that I always think of when "alma" is discussed is that my own language - German - does basically the same thing. A virgin is a "Jungfrau" (for example, that's also the name of the constellation known as "virgo"), which is easily seen as the same as a "junge Frau", except the latter just means young woman, not virgin.
I did not know that that is actually quite interesting thank you for sharing I can recognize a little bit of German but I don't really know German
10:38 To be consistent, let's go to one of his own favourite arguments, if he come to a murder scene and his assistant say "the husband did it" we must investigate the evidence to see if it was the husband or father who did it... but also take into account that the murder at least CAN be a supernatural event, so we LITERALLY may chase a ghost!
After all, if we accept one miracle, then we should accept a few miracle, then we should accept ALL miracles!
The answer to the question is: Yes.
I thought the answer was 42.
Depends on what you think Christianity is. I have yet to meet two Christians who actually agree on what Christianity is.
@@nunyabizness6546 DON'T PANIC! 😂😂
@@sinisterminister6478 No sweat. I always have my towel.
@@nunyabizness6546 Don't leave home without it. It always comes in handy as well to cover your ears if someone starts reciting Vogon poetry.
OK, this is a totally off the wall question. What piece of media is that clip of the live-action angel and Mary from?
I would like to know. *BUMP*
The more of this guy I see the more I question his qualifications to be any kind of detective, let alone a cold case one.
Even when information is easily available, he still gets it wrong.
For me it is his delivery that gives the game away. The moment opens his mouth the hesistancy of his delivery just says "what the uck are you trying to say.
I can't wait for the day that this man hits the 1M milestone.
The virgin conception story, to me, is inconceivable.
That audible pause as Jay intakes air while talking makes listening to him even more torturous.
Detective boy starts with "we have to be able to explain it"
And is explanation is "...well you can't explain it"
Don't bother trying to point that out to him though, he'll just block you and run off to his safe space.
Hard-boiled tough guy detective my ass.
If a scientist said "When you mix concentrated nitric and hydrochloric acid, it levitates into the air, spins around and turns bright pink" when everyone else tried it nothing happened. Everyone said the first scientist was full of shit until he could reproduce it for us. I think the same rules should apply for biblical miracles.
Wait. Wait wait wait.
...Jim is a detective!? He shoulda said something.
Loving the comedy clips added in, especially Robin Williams' stand up comedy skit.
But if we find a "supernatural realm" or whatever, and learn about it, THEN IT BECOMES NATURAL.
Pretty much,
By definition, if it is at all possible to study it, then it isn’t supernatural.
Lee Strobel!!!.....sorry I couldn't resist it!
I legitimately wonder about his cold case solves. Like, if he uses the same low quality analysis for Christianity as he does for police work (as he claims), how reliable are his previous homicide convictions?
He has slipped up sometimes that he used different standards for his police work.
I think he is using the title 'cold case detective' to give his apologetics more value.
Yeah, I keep wondering if the opposing counsel couldn't just play the jury some of these videos to discredit his capability of performing rational analysis.
The judges would have thrown him out, every single time and he would have gotten kicked from the force on his third case ;)
@@lnsflare1 Courts have standards of evidence. Ad hominem attacks are not allowed regardless of how true they may be unless he claimed to be trustworthy.
The bigger concern is that the jury would buy similar logical leaps as proof on the cases. Is it sufficient for the prosecution to have a good story even if the facts are highly suspect?
@@goldenalt3166 I'm pretty sure you are allowed to try and discredit the qualifications of expert witnesses using their own publicly available statements, especially when they keep referring to their relevant expertise in said statements. The lawyer would just need to hammer in the notion that the members of the jury would probably not be happy if they or their lives ones were being investigated by someone who seriously makes arguments like JWW's.
Isaiah verses:
“Lo, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.”
The author of the Gospel of Matthew, in quoting Isaiah, relied on the Greek translation rather than the original Hebrew.
In the original Hebrew, Isaiah’s prophecy reads, “Look at the pregnant young woman.” Had Isaiah wanted to say “virgin” or predict a miraculous birth, he would have used different Hebrew words.
Whats more likely, a teenage girl experiencing an immaculate conception. Or a teenage girl cheating/raped and becoming pregnant then lying about it to her husband out of fear. When you remember the punishments bestowed on "unfaithful" women back then, the latter seems more likely.
It's really interesting. I listen to each of your videos every time they're released. Then occasionally when I'm doing some jobs around my flat I put on a playlist from you, Viced Rhino, Logiked etc and it's only then do I realise just how much these guys repeat themselves and I don't just mean rehashing the same ideas, they litterally use the same lines over and over again verbatim. It's almost like they don't do any research at all and just stick to their conformation bias presuppositions 🤔😂
Well their script was written centuries ago. I don't mean the Bible, but most of the apologetics arguments date back to a handful of ideas developed in the middle ages.
Every time he says "a virgin birth is reasonable" I hear Kent Hovind saying "dawgs don't give birth to cats"
Hebrew speaking fellow here:)
It's actually written as 'העלמה',
When the 'ה' is just a 'the'.
So is to say 'the young girl/Young woman'.
A female virgin in Hebrew is 'בתולה' - 'betula'.
Thanks for the video. It is very well done as usual. I have just one problem with it. I am not sure it is accurate to say Mary was not consensual in her so called miraculous conception. In my reading of Luke 1:38 she seems to consent. “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her. This seems like consent to me.
Former skeptics and atheists that become Christian apologists seem to be the least skeptical people I’ve ever encountered my entire life. Makes you wonder if they ever intellectually well-considered atheists or just ambivalent nonbelievers.
This is a J Warner Wallace episode huh? Before I watch it I already know he's going to have errors galore.
Remember the reason for the Season is the axial tilt of the Earth. The reason that Christmas is December 25 is that was day for Constantine's favorite god, Sol Invictus.
I have used Jay's reasoning to solve all of his cold cases: they're miracles as all known human causes have been examined and fallen short. Therefore they are all miracles, which is reasonable because we all believe in a far greater miracle of creation. God is the killer
I can imagine PineCreek asking something like "Does the Big Bang lend credence to miracles in other religions?"
If a god exist, I would think the misconceptions that humans' wrote would have been corrected by now.
Exactly why is it so hard for an “all powerful” god to just say “this is 100% what I mean” and make it grow on something somewhere no man could could’ve put it so there’s no argument that it was mans word
Why would God even care ? Do we care what bacteria do ?
I love your sign off. “Later” 😀
"Do Miraculous Events (like Virgin Conception) Invalidate Christianity?"
A moot point until it is proved that miraculous events have occurred.
Loving your Christmassy theme! 😀
I see J Warner Wallace has been here to thumb down the video.
They other two down votes are from God and Jesus Christ
@@Kitefel Any others that come in will be from the innocent guys in the lockup that JWW stitched up.
Snot Globule has also been here posting his usual tired old crap as S Gloval, so he undoubtedly thumbed it down under at least one account.
@@kayb9979 I found ignoring snotty is best because it thrives on attention.
@@VaughanMcCue Yes, I agree. He's been posting the same bullshit since the year dot.
Interesting that Wallace's former cop father doesn't buy any of this.
But Jesus had brothers and maybe sisters, according to the bible. So how did 100 year old Joseph get busy enough to father four plus children? And was Joseph out of town the night that Mary got the rod of god? And how does Santa Claus give me presents when I have no chimney?!!! So much to learn to fit in with the evangelicals.
I love how you weave your commentary with J Warner Wallace's argument at 15:40. The sentence flow paints a creative picture of one of the many ways in which history is created and written-including the branch of history which studies the development of religious tradition.
He sounds like the worst cold case detective. No wonder he is doing this now instead.
Hi Paul! Thank you 🤘🏼
Intellectual Dishonesty inc.
“Everyone believes in something that can’t happen so like...it’s IMPOSSIBLE to prove that something that can’t HAPPEN...CANNOT happen... happens.....sometimes...I think”
-Cosmological virginity detective
Who examined Mary to see if her hymen was intact when she claimed to have become miraculously pregnant?
I believe John was said to have been a doctor and checked. Could be wrong though.
Then above me that sounds right but again I don't remember either. I do want to say though something as simple as riding a horse can damage a girl's hymen it doesn't matter whether she was raped or whether she was cheating both would result in her death, but if it was a surprisingly miraculous thing it would not mean anything whether her hymen is broken or not
@@borttorbbq2556 Girls? Riding horses? Not in the dark ages they don't. But seriously, either it was normal practice, she was important, or had some really good friends (assuming the story is true in the sense that she was really a "virgin" at the time, not the whole God thing)
Gabriel did the night he slipped in to dose her with the sedating date rape drug.
The hymen doesn't necessarily break during your first time and it can even stay intact woman's entire life. On the other hand it can break during many different physical activities besides sex. Hymen being intact or brojen says absolutely nothing about virginity, although ancient people didn't know that....
The facts:
The Hebrew account describes Mary simply as a young woman.
The Greek transcriptions then describe her as a virgin in place of young woman.
This is sort of like a mythological appropriation, a god(not including demi-gods) are always born of a virgin to the Greeks. It made total sense for them to add this.
@paulogia To be fair, matter most likely did not predate the big bang, there was most likely no matter in the singularity, only energy, and the energy has been converted to matter
@Ernoskij The Big Bang describes the beginning of the expansion of spacetime. Using strictly classical physics this model extrapolates back to a singularity, but we know that classical physics doesn’t hold for very small things. Therefore the only thing the theory can tell us is that spacetime was small and dense at the start of the expansion, it cannot inform us whether there was an actual singularity or not.
@@escuddy3244 currently it's thought that there may not have been a singularity at all either way it doesn't matter no pun intended
particles pop in and out of existence without cause. The big bang does not necessarily need a cause.
There are no "high holy holidays" for Christianity. Holiday means Holy Day, just say holiday.
And they are all taken from other religions.
When any possible natural explanation seems less plausible than the possibility of a miracle,then a miracle would be reasonable. I haven’t seen that yet..
Jesus Christ that guy needs to stop breathing into his mic so loudly oof
Even early dating of Mark does not help the case of the virgin birth being challened. Mark does not claim the virgin birth. It would be necessary to wait until Matthew and Luke's gospel to challenge the virgin conception.
Miracles are reasonable?!?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks Paul, I learned something today.
You can be a virgin and still get pregnant.
What examples of that happening do you have/think can happen?
@@hypnotoad28 In before they go with artificial insemination, etc.
@@hypnotoad28 Since this is a Christian site I will avoid the Crass explanation and just give you a link: www.verywellfamily.com/how-to-get-pregnant-without-sexual-intercourse-1960194
@@ubersheizer5398 called it.
@@hypnotoad28 My bad. I got confused on my discussions and thought this was Capturing Christianity. Specifically, Depositing your seed on her hoo-hoo can get her pregnant without penetration.
I find it interesting that he's chosen this fight; in all likelihood, "virgin" is a mistranslation. (Dr. Josh has an episode on this)