attacking ideas | my changing view of Islam [cc]
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- A reflection on my changing views on Islam - and the ex-Muslims and Muslims who changed them.
You can support the channel at: / theramintrees
Regarding Islam I'd also like to recommend Reason on Faith's 2019 video 'Why I am Leaving Islam and Ahmadiyyat'
• Why I am Leaving Islam...
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opening quote:
I read Alexis de Tocqueville and I read about democracy and I lived in countries that had no democracy, that had no founding fathers .... so I don’t find myself in the same luxury as you.
You grew up in freedom and you can spit on freedom because you don’t know what it is not to have freedom.
-Ayaan Hirsi Ali
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Arabic subtitles: TranquilOblivion
Bulgarian: Djeitko
Slovak subtitles: Peter Ščigulinský
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Council of Islamic Ideology quote:
tribune.com.pk/story/1110571/...
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Hadith quoted regarding homosexuality:
sunnah.com/abudawud/40/112
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Shia cleric Farrokh Sekaleshfar interview:
• Video
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Hadith quoted regarding killing apostates:
sunnah.com/bukhari/88/5
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Former Grand Mufti of Egypt Ali Goma’a quotes:
www.middle-east-online.com/eng...
gulfnews.com/news/mena/egypt/t...
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Tarek Fatah quote, from interview:
• Tarek's take on Anjem ...
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Raheel Raza
Story:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/...
Quote:
• The invention of "ISLA...
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Asra Nomani
Story:
www.nytimes.com/2004/07/22/us/...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...
Quote:
• "Wear Hijab Day"? Asra...
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Usama Hasan
Story:
www.theguardian.com/world/201...
Quote:
www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/pol...
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Majjid Nawaz
Some attempts to invite agreement on reform:
• "Should we tolerate th...
• Video
Quote:
www.npr.org/templates/transcri...
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Quotes by other ex-Muslim and Muslim activists:
Nonie Darwish
• Part 3 - Nonie Darwish...
Sarah Haider
• Sarah Haider: Islam an...
Tawfik Hamid
• Dr. Tawfik Hamid expla...
Salim Mansur
• Delectable Lie-A liber...
Wafa Sultan
• Wafa Sultan: "Women in...
Ibn Warraq
• Why I am not a Muslim
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Pew research
www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/mu...
www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/th...
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British Muslim apostasy question from Populus, ‘Living apart together’ poll:
www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/u...
BBC article:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6309983.stm
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Hadith quote regarding 73 sects
sunnah.com/abudawud/42/1
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Ahmadi
Passport declaration article:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes...
Persecution:
www.channel4.com/news/hate-cr...
www.theguardian.com/commentis...
Our’an commentary reference on friendship between believers and disbelievers:
www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer...
archive.org/details/Ahmadiyya...
ReasonOnFaith critique of Ahmadi social attitudes:
reasononfaith.org/ahmadiyya-be...
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Quranists persecution articles:
www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?...
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Sufi persecution articles:
www.theguardian.com/commentis...
world.time.com/2012/07/02/timb...
www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/wor...
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Apostasy trials
Adbul Rahman article:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/sout...
Meriam Ibrahim
www.theguardian.com/world/201...
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Miscellaneous
Muslims debate punishment for apostates
• Leaving Islam Apostates
Ex-Muslims discuss doublethink
• Ex Muslims reveal the ...
Some discussions on Qur’an 4:34 regarding beating women:
• Video
• How to Beat Your Wife ...
• How to beat women in I...
• Video
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music © TheraminTrees
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borak obama?
Mm. I know someone called Borak - I've clearly typed it without thinking. And when do I notice? When I view the uploaded video for the first time ....
TheraminTrees you're wonderful. thank you for your time making this video, I blow kisses your way x x
+Jason Schwartz
Let's say that I lead a life of kindness and compassion for my fellow humans, doing volunteer work by reading to orphans or running a soup kitchen for the homeless in my spare time. I've never stolen anything, never raped, never murdered, but I just couldn't find any compelling evidence to convince me that the fantastical claims in your Bible were anything other than a compilation of mythical stories. Do you think that it's justice that I should burn for eternity in a lake of fire? Is it deserved? Why should I, a decent person, be tortured until the end of time, while a serial killer that has a deathbed conversion to Christianity, be granted an eternal blissful existence? Does that seem at all fair to you?
+Jason Schwartz
Please do not dodge the question. It's dishonest. I'm not asking you to judge me. I'm asking you a very simple question: *if I don't believe in the existence of Christ and accept his divinity, will I go to hell after my death, regardless of my good deeds on Earth?* Again, this is not me asking you to judge me, but this is only asking what the rules of your religion state. It's a simple yes or no question, so don't try any diversion tactics, or I'll just write you off as a dishonest charlatan.
+Jason Schwartz, there is very likely no god, so relax and enjoy your life.
As a Muslim woman who lives in an Arab country, I'd put it this way: the more you criticise religion, the better our life becomes here as women.
No sane Muslim speaks about Islam like this. Only full fledged hypocrites
@@liby254 Islam was distorted by people in power that made our life more complicated. And your comment about "no sane Muslim would do XY.." is not well informed because not all Muslims are the same which is the point of the video. I'm for reforms. I want my religion to be cleansed from the interpretation of people who clearly hate women. A lot of the Hadith was obviously not said by a prophet of God but by people who had certain agendas. And yes, I'm a Muslim woman who wants others to criticise the harmful parts of the religion that are not godly so that our lives can be easier.
@@zineb3351 like which hadiths... Bring examples and stop waffling
"I'm for reforms. I want my religion to be cleansed from the interpretation of people who clearly hate women."
And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not.
Surah Baqarah
Since when attacking bad ideas is considered causing corruption on Earth? You seem like you missed the whole point of his argument. Have you even watched the video? Because he talked about a few Hadiths that were not quite delightful. I don't expect you to see that those Hadiths were problematic because you lack the fundamental understanding that criticising an idea is not a bad thing. You see it as corruption. Which is not what that verse of Qur'an even mean.
@@DaxanDaxter forgive me for believing that beating a woman is morally wrong? May Allah open your eyes to distinguish its words from the words of people.
Reminder that having critical thoughs about a religion (expressed with respect of course) doesn’t automatically make you a hater to those who practise that religion
Why yes, yes it does. The Rushdie quote @ 42:12 is spot on. I'd also say that the term "respect" had been perverted to mean unquestioned deference to an assumed superior position. Betty Bowers says that when Xians impose their restrictions on others it's called "religious freedom." When non-believers respond in kind it's called "oppression." To believers ANY counterpoint is "disrespect."
However, in the Constitution, respect means due regard for or special consideration of.
What usually gets left out of the conversation of "respect" is the part where respect is earned. To my mind, flying an airplane into a building is not exactly a method of "earning" respect in the traditional sense. Violently imposing some fantasy moral code which only benefits those who impose it isn't a way either. I can and should oppose Xians not only for their proactive suppression of science and social progress but for all of those fun little gems they whitewash in the Bible and keep in their back pockets until needed to justify genocide, slavery, abuse and intolerance. And I imagine that could apply to any belief system that promotes death as an incentive for conversion.
@@markdraper3469 what do you mean by "whitewash"? You mean convenient removal?
@@caralho5237 Well, yes, but not "removal" so much as redaction for public view.
You don’t have to express it with respect. Islam is the last thing that deserve respect (the religion itself, not the people of course)
Define "respect"...
I should think when I respect you as a thoughtful and capable adult human being, then I should PRESUME you to be capable of handling my perspective as I see it... and take the time to correct any misjudgments by explaining or countering my viewpoint with something that makes some sort of legitimate sense...
If you need me to diminish the adverbs and adjectives to levels a child wouldn't cringe at, then you don't want my respect... You want me to baby you along, infantilizing your view as incapable of dealing with legitimate criticism... The majority of prescribed punishments in the Shariah involve torture, dismemberment, humiliation, and DEATH... SO when I tell you a view it as a draconian idealism brutally bent on a barbaric form of oppression, and nothing to be remotely prideful about... An adult WORTHY of my respect can sit back and start going over the finer points of the thing... Maybe in my haste to read up, I have over-looked some aspects upon which are predicated "judicial latitude" as we call it in our (US) court system, where a judge can pass a sentence of dubious leniency where the law "as written" doesn't necessarily support it, but the facts of the case seem to warrant... Maybe there is something like that in Shariah... I'm NOT aware of it, and this IS only an example of conversational context to illustrate...
The infantile arguer, however, will jump up immediately and start swearing at me, ridiculing my "obvious ignorance of Islam" and decry me or demonize me as "Islamaphobic"... etc...etc..etc... Under the "shield" that I spoke "disrespectfully" instead of directly...
Bullshit.
Respect has plenty to do with etiquette... The avoidance of recognized and codified "swear words" and "uncouth phrases" and at least some measured adherence toward Euphemisms on certain subjects, just to recognize that some people in our company (and conversation) might well be uncomfortable with direct or flagrant "obscenity" whether it's actually intended or simply perceived... We CAN agree to get along with some of that... BUT we live in an age of technology, where if there IS justification for a "Capital Punishment" we have quicker, cleaner, and more painless options including simply shooting someone in the back of the head and being done with the thing... Do you have ANY idea how long and disgusting a process it is for someone to die by burial to their shoulders while others THROW (by hand) the rocks that are supposed to be killing them??? Where do we draw the line for an adjective like "Brutal" or "Barbaric"???
Be CAREFUL of that term "with respect" or "voiced with respect"... It's easily twisted against any chance at progress because there's no polite way to MURDER someone... MUTILATE their genitals... or any of a LITANY of barbaric practices prescribed by idiosophical texts around the world for reasons that are outright silly in the context of modern human life in the 21st Century. ;o)
Man, I'm actually scared to watch this video. I'm a 17 yo female Muslim who's currently in conflict with ideas that are ingrained into my head as I grew up in Indonesia, and the many perspectives I've read and gained through the english speaking internet.
Ever since I saw this video in my recommended, it's been in my mind ever since. I could only scrounge up the courage to read the comments and haven't gotten around to watching the video yet haha
I have so many complex feelings about my religion. I often find myself wincing or feeling uncomfortable when I'm sitting in my mandatory religion classes that delve into laws and sins and punishment. I know this isn't healthy, that I'm holding it all in because I'm scared that I will be shamed or mocked if I expressed that I questioned my beliefs.
When westerners criticize the hijab, I find myself to be a bit defensive. I will try to defend it, saying while some ARE forced into it and that's terrible, some women actually prefer to wear it and I don't think it's such an odd thing to make a fuss of. But deep down, I don't believe what I'm saying. Do I? I don't know...
In Indonesia, if you see someone wearing a hijab, it's not out of the ordinary. We don't stare and gawk or see them as their religion. I just see that they're just PEOPLE, with quirks and oddities and worries of their own. Even if you see people not wearing the hijab in day to day public that's not in religious gatherings, you usually go about your day normally.
But the criticism can extend to how muslim women started wearing their hijabs from birth. Like how muslim women are shamed and scared with the prospect of being burdened with sin unless they cover up their body.
Am I brainwashed into thinking I'm dependent on my hijab or I should cover myself? I don't know. My father has always been stern with having me wear the hijab ever since I was little, heck until now. It's come to a point where it's INGRAINED into me as a person, and that I'd feel that there's something wrong if I don't wear it outside or if I don't wear anything modest/ covers up to my wrist and ankles.
Heck even some Muslims criticize the traditional wear here in Bandung which is the kebaya, saying it's tight and "SeGgSy".
I stick with Islam because that's what I am. All I've known all my life is that I'm a muslim. I constantly get reminded of that because it's ingrained into my lifestyle, from praying, to wearing the hijab when I go to school, to watching out for haram food. If I stop doing all those things, I have this void feeling that I'm doing something wrong.
Other than that, I know Islam works for some people. My mother and father faced harsh childhoods and horrifying things happened to them, but they pulled through thanks to their religion and their children a better childhood. I want to so badly share that adoration of my religion like them, but I'm afraid of ever bringing up the topic because they're so kind.
They never abuse me, they are actually quite up to date in modern times and work in the medical field so they don't reject modern science. Though, even though I love them from the bottom of my heart, they could be quite conservative at times. Openly expressing disdain on LGBTQ+ or other ways teenagers might act out in. And you know what? I hate myself for having that inkling of hate when I see queer relationships. It's infuriating, it's wrong for me to hate other people when their love isn't harming anyone.
But it's been ingrained into my head and that is a problem I need to fix and not an excuse for me to feel this way.
And so, I sit on the fence. I suppose I would be what you call a "moderate muslim". But there's that fear that someone will pipe in and leave a scathing remark on how that's proof that Islam in its entirety is unpalletable to the current times and how I desperately want to defend it.
I sit on the fence, because one part of me likes being "diverse" or somewhat different from the rest of the west English speaking audience. This is me. It's my culture! I get giddy when I see an Indonesian, let alone a hijab wearing Indonesian having a presence online because I feel seen! Hey, she's familiar in the sea of unfamiliar cultures and people!
But then I dread reading the comments. Because I've always anticipated it being either barraged with scathing remarks about my beliefs, or people trying to challenge it.
I know I should actually thunk and use me brain, but I'm so defensive and scared about having a rational discussion. I know that no belief is excused from being criticized, but I am still scared haha. Very conflicting feelings.
God, sorry that this is so unorganized. I know no one is forcing me to watch it, but I feel constantly drawn to it. It's been in my mind when my mind is wandering. I... might leave another comment when I'm done watching the video. I know you probably will never read this, but thanks for spurring such conflicting thoughts into my mind. I honestly don't know where else I can say this without coming on a verge of a panic attack or feel extreme shame.
take your time and watch it when you're ready (or don't), you don't have to agree or accept every point made in this video (obviously) and u can defend your religion in the comments if u want to no one minds. If you're feeling forced to be religious to follow your parents' footsteps, don't. it'll just damage yourself, doing the bare minimum needed is enough. (praying 5 times a day, wearing a hijab, etc I'm not muslim so I can't really speak much for it but you probably get the general idea??) and as a gay person, we don't mind if u feel uncomfortable as long as u don't go out of your way to go "being gay is a sin" or "as long as you're determined you can be normal again" cause 1. everyone knows that 2. no one chose to be gay bro why would u wanna be sentenced to death or disowned??? (since most indonesians are homophobic yk yk. to clarify I'm an Indonesian myself I've seen way too many people using those arguments so by not saying anything directly you're doing us a big favor ❤️) I have no idea why I wrote this reply but I hope it reassured u in some way I suppose
Hey, just wonder have you watched the video yet? If you haven't, then you should. It's a good essay. For a critique video made by an atheist, this video is pretty well thought out and not the typical Islam/religion hating type of atheist video. Lord knows we have too many of those.. I can summarize it for you but it's better for you to watch it yourself and form your on opinion regarding his critiques.
I also want to say that i fully understand how you feel. I'm Indonesian too. When I was a kid I read this religious comic depicting people/sinners being tortured, burned alive and all that, and it shook me. It was traumatizing, I was 8! No eight year old should be exposed to such horror. And don't get me started on the preaches! Oh you will go to hell for everything type. Hate them.
I think it's okay to feel uncomfortable. I would be more wary of those who have no problem with the thought of billions of people suffering eternal tortures just because they're non believers, or even not believing enough, or not faithful enough. The fact that you felt uncomfortable means you're a good person.
I would love to address your other concerns, too, but then it would be too long, and nobody got time for that. wkwkwk. Take care, don't worry too much and keep being a good person.
Indonesian here, I decided to wear hijab myself at 6th grade because my friends did it.. also I have messy hair. I don't want to take care of my hair somehow haha. I'm also sitting in the middle of intersection too. There's stupid things that happened in Indonesia that bothers my mind, especially "alumni 212", or "penistaan agama Ahok". If you don't act against it, you're not Muslim they said. I wonder? I'm concerned since long ago but I can't voice it. If you want and you still in dilemma, let's be friend?
@@aun7106 let's be friends!
@P Oh It's so relieving to see someone else in a similar position. I'm also an 18 yo female Muslim from Indonesia living abroad. I'm questioning my beliefs as well and no one I know seems to think this way. I'd be really interested in chatting with someone like you if you don't mind. Maybe we can exchange our thoughts and bring a little peace of mind to each other :)
i got called christianophobic, Islamophobic AND antisemitic once for simply saying "homosexuality is not a sin" LMAOOOO
edit (a year later): after always getting a notification whenever someone replies, i can say there are two types - either its “noone would say that/didn’t happen” or “it is a sin/they’re right” - so that’s kinda funny
It is very funny how they call people Islamophobic if they just attacked their beliefs and play the victim, meanwhile in Islamic countries we will go to jail just for being atheists and even worse like being killed that's why I keep my ideas secret.
Just ask to buy their daughter. If they get mad remind them that that is also part of their "moral code". Remind them also not to eat shellfish, they are an abomination after all.
I can't believe I used to take that book seriously. Ug.
Never heard Christiannophobic used, not once, (Christianity gets crapped on all the time and few care) though I have heard the islamophobic one.
But you know what is the most common thing to hear these days? Retards screaming about homophobia and transphobia and using that as emotional blackmail in attempt to coerce others into agreeing with their political opinions. (you know typical 'thats heresy' lingo)
you're speaking to a bunch dimwits, just, leave them alone in their world. There's special place for them in hell, and I don't even believe in hell.
and then everyone clapped!
There is a huge difference between bigotry and criticism.
I'm not sure about that, at least the "huge" part. Bigotry really is just fallacious and irrational criticism. This is like saying, "There's a huge difference between an apple and a rotten apple." Yes, they aren't the same, but if telling the difference was super-easy, all the time, we wouldn't have to worry about bigotry appealing to the mainstream.
@@Ian_sothejokeworks Good point but I was mainly referring to christianity in the west.
Unfortunately, this is not the case for those who hold the beliefs.
And they get to decide if your words have hurt them.
You just need to bulldoze past it, and be mean, because there is no other option.
The issue is "bigotry" is weaponized against criticism. Example Sam Harris. Good point!
An even bigger difference is criticism from Just telling the truth lol. ❤
'Islamophobia' is supposed to refer to ideas like 'Muslims are terrorists' and other generalizing claims that disparage the less extreme Muslims. Unfortunately, it seems to have been co-opted to be used to refer to anyone critical of Islam. Call out and correct people who misuse this word.
It's disgusting what's going on in the world today. You can't say anything negative about any religion less you be silenced. People don't seem to realise s key talking point is that when you die in Islam, you get to have sex with a bunch of virgins, that alone shows the sexual depravity of the religion before you even get started with the terroristic nature of the doctrine.
@@ashholiday123 there are a lot of parts of Islam that would disgust me in isolation from the other parts of Islam
@@ashholiday123 for some reason there is this idea that religion is beyond criticism.
This is why the phrase "Islam is right about women" caused many people to become irrationally angry. The groups that shout Islamophobia also hold on to extreme feminist ideals. So when presented with this phrase they cannot say "yes, Islam treats women the correct way" since that is anti-feminist, but they also cannot say "no, Islam does not treat women properly" since that is islamophobic.
@@starburst98 I wouldn't say the anger is irrational in that case, Islam dictates to treat their women as sub-human and subservient. I'm not even a woman and that ticks me off.
I viewed this video as an Egyptian Muslim and Now after one year I'm Egyptian Atheist
Congratulations. It’s not easy to reassess ideas that you’re taught are vital to your life and existence. I had some religious and spiritual beliefs that didn’t hold up to honest scrutiny, and even though it was uncomfortable to relinquish them, I believe my life is better for doing so. I hope that critical thinking continues to serve you well. I hope your life is a good one, that you are safe, happy, and healthy.
@@charlieevergreen3514 Thanks Charlie i hope you doing well😊
Manahel al-Otaibi (saudi activist) has been sentenced to 11 years in prison for supporting women's rights, and i see so many people supporting this sentence, she already suffered a lot of mental and physical abuse in custody... this is their religion of peace. I feel so hopeless for this world.
As a Muslim I respect this unbiased take on Islam. We really need discussions on this.
@Ghufran there certain things that are fundamental to Islam and it's belief and cannot be discussed.
@@musqul8566 and you're a scholar of Islam? how many years did you spend studying the religion? this childish tiit for tat approach will only make things harder worse.
@@dennisdobin8640 your reply added nothing of value. the guy is trying to start a healthy discussion and all you think of is some corrupt Middle eastern puppet leaders, smdh. focus on what he's trying to say instead of writing unproductive provocative stuff.
@@verysmartultrahuman939 I was a Muslim.
@@musqul8566 how many years did you spend studying the religion? not Quran school i'm talking about regulations and scholar seminars. being a Muslim isn't enough, most Muslims don't know crap about Islam.
"She said she love my faith in people, and hope that they will not disappointed me"
Ouch...
Ceronia I wonder whether she survived the wearing of a pantsuit and leaving off her headscarf? Or did she suffer a fate similar to that which would have been inflicted on the gay son?
I agree with her.
Hoomans r shit.
@@RonLarhz not true. because we are here, discussing this. we are just scared. this is a scary fucking place. try making someone who lives in a pitch black room their whole life get up and walk towards ur voice, especially if theyve never heard a voice in that room before, not even their own.
@@kissmyacidrocks We 330 000 out of 6+ billion people.
We have a long road ahead.
Hmm it might because of people average iq is a little low, they are more likely to group and defend their group idea
I see a lot of people claiming this isn't a fair assessment of Islam. Like, read the title. The video is about why we should think critically about widespread ideas. It's using his personal journey of how he viewed a religion as an example for the wider concept.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Many people miss the point of the actual discussion.
I remember being friends with a Muslim girl in school, she was one of the nicest people I’ve ever met so I figured that Islam was just a better version of Christianity since most of the Christian’s I had met were mean and judgmental. But after a few years she came out and told me that her family was borderline abusive and was full of hate and contempt because of their religious teachings. And I too had seen this woman transform quickly into an atheist once we spoke about the reality of her situation, I am so very proud of her. And I am so very proud of anyone who was able to break themselves free of the oppression from a religious upbringing. It’s very hard and I believe in you
Christians, mena And judgmental? I never had such a good laugh!!
@@BroJo676I'm sure you know that it isn't truth, but my grandma's all of that
@@prosperitystar Your grandma doesn't represent the entirety of the Christian community. People in my church in France are very welcoming.
@@BroJo676I think people who say that tend to be Americans. American Christians can be genuinely terrible people, and they're often taught to not really like outsiders.
@@TheAbsol7448 I'm not American. I sometimes or always cringe at the thought of Americans representing Christianity which is the dominant religion in Europe, Africa, South America, and Oceania. It shows how bogus it is to reduce us to the behavior of American evangelicals who clearly care more about politics than Jesus.
If you heard me sing.. you'd pick the death option.
👍Hehehhe
If you think singing isnt a thing in muslim comunities then think again.
Gazza we have heard you sing stick to football ua-cam.com/video/T1urq4Vb0XM/v-deo.html
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Stick to football and drinking.
it is sad that in today's western world, the idea of "not challenging ideas and only stick to yours" is becoming more mainstream to the point people lie to themselves just to protect their initial idea.
Never more so than now
Yeah...we need to challenge ideas, but not hurt others..
If they wanna hold that believe, even if it is false, as long as they know it's false, I don't think its wrong for them to keep their ideas...
It's just role playing, everyone role play to some extend in their life...
@@christinebeames2311 Really? I thought it was the opposite.
@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457 You reckon people are less insular than ever? Perhaps on a global scale that might be true you know.
@@theexplodingmothfromhell8012 Yeah, I mean people in the past, didn't have this much freedom to choose their own beliefs and things that are filled to brim with knowledge like internet before, unlike us.
I am a Muslim living in Turkey. I just want to say I want religion and state being separate like an ordinary European nation. Hateful and backwards ideas should be left behind and progress should be achieved. And most importantly, nothing should be above criticism. We must choke this cancer of ignorance for good, otherwise muslims could never live in a healthy way.
Kaffir
@@mimirotatito786yk that you just committed the grandest of sins 🎉
@@mimirotatito786 you don't know what's in his heart so you're the one who's sinful
We already got this in our constitution you know, its just not enforced enough by the current government
The thing is we muslims are not European you can't just change the minds of billions of Muslims we have our thousand+ year history our history evolved much different from Europeans. We aren't Europeans dude. The problem is in your mind progress and Europeans are synonymous but that's not true. There was a period from like the 50's to the 90's where the middle east was trying to be European and that failed
As a Muslim, I really respect how the criticism is being done without any bigotry. Of course, fair criticism is not phobia
awesome!
btw what's your stance on jihad?
@@dorito4her Jihad means stuggle. Its meaning can literally range from struggle against one's own desires from struggle against an oppressive govt. What it doesn't mean is beheading people mercilessly without any just cause (But that's how the western media likes to portray it).
@@sadatiqbalpriom7389 no, not that whitewashed Jihadi definition told mainly to deceptively disarm the ignorant. What's your stance on the Jihad that calls for killing Kafirs.
@@sadatiqbalpriom7389They think that jihad is a bad thing😂
@@lookintheeye
Because it is.
Yes, it's a long one this time. But for me, it was important to say all of this in one go - you might realise why. Peace. TT
TheraminTrees Am sorry I know this is a old comment that you made but I was really impressed by your video and really loved the story related to the little boy and his Muslim friend and his struggle to understand prejudice towards other people of other religions I been trying to find that story but it’s not located in your video description Box so I was wondering if you can share with me the link of that wonderful story I believe it can be so helpful in explaining prejudice amount children that have been raised in religions backgrounds I hope it won’t be a issue for you I wish it was in your video description tho.
Have to thank you for the time and effort taken to put these together, your work and voice is appreciated.
TheraminTrees, I am new to your channel, but your work is work in depths and really inspiring.
Comedic atheists make fun of religious verses and practices
Atheist debaters/debunkers gain a seriousness level and use their knowledge of logic and fallacies.
TheraminTrees, however, proceeds to explore this topic on a psychological level, adds in experience, and exposes this very problem's core. There's simply something I feel when I watch these. It could be a sense of motivation. Your work is really appreciated
Lyndel Scott It was his own personal story, which he says I the video.
I think Islam is poison btw
i had the same problem of protecting all muslims automatically because recent media, i tried so hard not to be prejudiced, i ended up going full circle. this video helped me realize they are just people like us and shouldn't be immune to criticism. whether you assume all muslims are bad people or terrorists, or they can do no bad and are misunderstood, you're probably paying too much to their religion and not them as a person. super insightful as usual, thank you so much for explaining this in an easy to understand video :)
Now make sure to apply that lesson to all religions.
yes man as a muslim myself let me tell you how weird it is to deem a large portion of the world as good people just because of their religion and what they say they are, idk what you and op were thinking about
I realize the same with Catholicism. I realize being an American has gave me a deluded view on religious freedom and liberty in the rest of the world. My own church when you go behind the current doesn't believe in it but says enough to not warrant suspicion while they support persecution in silence.
I also finally understand when my political science teacher said to me "you'll find being liberal, fighting for freedom, speech and liberty is much harder than being conservative and fighting for everything to remain the same. you'll find many religion leaders even your own support state and church relations, a type of theocracy and conservatism before they stand by any peace, separation and neutrality." He said other things to me but that stayed with me. Made me look into my churches history and our actual teachings. Really critique my own faith. Made me realize those sex scandals and my church handling of it actually falls partially into its teachings and my "suppose belief".
Its scary and place my morals and ethics in place.
I think you missed the point. You really shouldn’t focus so much on them as people. You should criticise the ideas they follow or were forced to follow. Islam, like Christianity, is an ideology based on violence, dehumanising, eternal punishment, prejudice, sexual subordination, bigotry, condemnation and power. Christianity can at least use the excuse that the religion’s roots were based on the teachings of a beggar who saw how corrupt and oppressive his former religion was. Islam was founded on the backs of a conquered and more conquerers to come. It existed in a world made for it and was extremely progressive in many ideas, at the time. But 2000 years later it’s not better than the Catholic Church hiding and promoting child sexual abuse or the social domineering of Confucius beliefs, or any other ideology that claims to have all the answers to salvation.
Son of God does not mean that God has a child in Christianity!
*what a mistake in the Qur'an!*
Son of God are 2 titles one referring to the Word of God = God himself and one referring to creation (humans, angels, demons)
im actually crying right now, As someone who is a female ex-muslim thank you for making this video it really speaks to me.
the amount of sexism and misogyny i have expereienced from my own family and even my own mother (who frequently body shames me if i don't wear modest clothes accodring to islamic standards which she has done since i was a child) due to me deciding to not wear my hijab to school and out in public to town and to family houses for the first time ever at the beginning of this year which led to a huge arguement with my toxic female cousin who told me that she is not froring me to wear the hijab but that i should wear it out of respect for my mother so i dont embarass her with the muslim community by going out withoutmy hijab on which is basically her forcing me to wear it.
ahhhh good old muslims and there love for using doublespeak.
anaway im just gonna wear the hijab when i go out with my family but not to school until i can move out and im just gonna pretend to wear the hijab to school in the morning to school.
right now i still live at home but i have only come out as ex-muslim to my younger sister and non-muslim best friend and it's scary because i have some violent cosuins who may kill me if i leave the religion. so i am waiting till i get my own place and move out until i come out to my family. don't worry i live in a western country so moving out is easier for me but still kinda hard and is killing me mentally.
ua-cam.com/video/7HD-fwgblSw/v-deo.html
This link is to an undercover Islamic channel.
Do not waste your time on it.
Great Mist
Keep your head down and keep views to yourself. Be careful.
Then get out.
You may want to go armed.
Where are you from?
@@darkomar7953 England.
i get called anti semetic for describing my childhood as "growing up in a cult". people love seeing other people living interesting lifestyles. it's only great for the people doing it voluntarily.
man these labels are just fucking aids
Yeah, there are definitely some Jewish communities that fit that mark. People don't seem to get that what makes something a cult isn't about the beliefs themselves. You could build a cult based on any religion or set of beliefs, though some make it easier than others. What makes something a cult depends on how the people inside the cult are treated by the leadership, the degree of control exhibited over their behavior , minds, and feelings, and the means by which that control is maintained.
@@Nixeu42I'm Jewish and I agree here. Its generaly the chasidic branches with central Rabbis that are cultlike. Some that come to mind are the Satmar and Belz. Most Jews are secular though, and even more religious ones tend to be generally tolarant and liberal. Its just the extremes that are bad and cultlike.
@@joshuaepstein5874 No need to convince me of that one. I'm a patrilineal. Most of my dad's side of the family is both Jewish and extremely secular, and my dad himself is heavily left-leaning and a college science professor, while also being pretty devoutly Orthodox Jew these days (he wasn't practicing at all while I was growing up). Needless to say, he doesn't get along with the more cult-y, conservative folks in his community, especially on the topics of science denial and LGBT+ issues.
@@Nixeu42 I mean, the world has only 1 jewish majority country and its a democracy. Meanwhile, every muslim majority country is a theocratic dictatorship.
"So, Parinda loses either way". One of the lines that stuck out most to me.
I swear I feel the same way whenever I think about talking about Islam to almost anyone ... I'd be hated whether they were Muslim or not! I can only share my thoughts with fellow ex-muslims who are too difficult to find for obvious reasons ...
@@dot_com5401 why would u be hated if they aren't muzlim?
@@powdery.Monica watch the video
@@dot_com5401 www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/
Dot_com you can talk to me:)
"..plants that rely on photosynthesis had no photo to synthesize.." I never laughed so hard before as when I heard this. I recently discovered this channel. Nice work.
Light was created on the first day. Light exists without the sun! Also, the separation of light from darkness. The creation of "Day" and "Night".
@@SamN234 LOL!!! How do yo know?
Yeah its the first line of the bible
They are many contradictions in the Bible but he said something that was untrue about the Bible
Im not saying its more authoritative but if you are to critique a religious text and claim to have at least the fundamental don't get something that is fundamental to that particular faith
And if he should lay criticism of cinderella i would but its not
If you are going to contest an idea you should keep to the facts otherwise you wont convince anyone (i used to believe in it) they will just think that you need to be more informed and even with the most solid reasoning they will just think that you should read a bit more as you obviously dont understand
Simply because the facts you state where wrong
For the record i found the quip quite funny if it was true but it was one throw away line and nothing else showing the scientific inaccuracies of the Bible and the only quip w wrong thats all
As an ex muslim and a gay person, it is really impossible for me to talk with respect about a religion that condemns me to double death.
Also, the hate and threats I receive from the followers of Islam makes it difficult for me more and more not to hate them.
I try my best to separate between the ideas and the people who preach them, but in my case I just can’t anymore as I don’t receive any support even from the so called open minded Muslims.
It is far easier to find hate than to find acceptance. People who are fine with you are not as obligated to express their support as those who hate feel they need to condemn
But rest assured, there are good people out there. It may feel like they do not exist, but realize that they too face the discrimination you get just for not being hateful
As a Muslim, I have no hate for people like you. I cannot expect a person who doesn't believe in Islam to do what it tells you to do. I hate it when people of my religion threaten lgbt people instead of accepting them as humans. In my opinion, more muslims should be open minded about this stuff. How can we expect people tolerate our religion when we don't tolerate other people? I feel really sorry for your experiences with muslims.
@@sidotre3033 I've seen alot of muslims hate on other muslims just because they accept homosexuality and calling them homosexual because of it?? 😭😭
@@sidotre3033 I Hope we can see more support from other Muslims, I understand that many supportive Muslims like you keep quiet because you fear the backlash from other hardcore Muslims but this will never help. People like you should raise more their voice and make it heard by the world, otherwise the image of homophobe and hateful Muslim will prevail and be much stronger.
Hey 👋 ignore the Muslims trying to champion peace into Islam it’s ridiculous they reinterpret verses to fit todays morals and science 🧪 plus claim to have rights when really they don’t when yo dig deep into tafsirs of the Quran and Hadith
Wow, what an incredible video.
I have a Muslim family and still living with them. I've always felt held back as a creative person as things like drawing animals, people, singing, listening to or making music are considered to be sins. Also, it's unclear to me, but at least according to my mother, writing fiction would be a sin as well, since it's technically telling lies. And anytime I'd try to read or watch something that talks about other religions, even if it's something as inoffensive as Percy Jackson, I'd get in trouble. And horror movies were not allowed because they are considered satanic.
Another thing though that I felt is a real pain in the ass for me personally however is that in Islam you aren't allowed to be friends with the opposite sex as it's considered inappropriate. That makes things pretty difficult because even if I only wanted to just befriend people of the same sex as me, it would be impossible to separate the members of the opposite sex from the group when we're hanging out somewhere. In the first place I don't want to have to exclude people the opposite sex from being my friend since they'll be more likely to have similar interests as me than my own sex.
At some point when I was in high school, my second oldest brother came out as an atheist. And the 3rd, and 4th oldest haven't claimed atheism or theism but are not practising. There was drama for sometime between the family but eventually they came to accept the fact he is atheist and believes in evolution. Or at the very least they tolerated him and my other brothers.
That incident was interesting. At first I was as shocked as anyone else in my family, but eventually I came to see that he was right in thinking for himself. He had studied biology and myths at university and came to his own conclusions.
Honestly, if I didn't have siblings capable of critical thinking I probably wouldn't had the courage to be the way I am now. But before all that stuff happened I was already pretending to pray at home and at school. Then at some point stopped even when we went to the mosque. In the last semester of high school is when I decided not to wear hijab anymore. To be honest the biggest reason for that was because wearing hijab was uncomfortable and gave me neck problems. But my parents took it very personally, so I didn't even bother to tell them why. But they never came to me to ask why I had done this and instead they talked about me when I wasn't around and how they were worried that I was going down the wrong path, apparently it was a rather loud conversation, this is what I was told by my younger sister, but to be honest I wouldn't doubt it because I heard their conversations when they were talking about my brothers.
One thing I find funny though is how my mother made a curt remark saying that I was influenced by or just copying my brother - it was one of those two; it's been sometime but it doesn't really matters which one it was, she basically was just saying I was doing the things I was doing just because my brothers were doing it. It didn't occur to her that I was capable of being critical of my religion. Or rather I should say; her religion.
Nowadays, I can say I'm doing a lot better. I still believe in god but I wouldn't say that I'm apart of a particular religion. I want to look deeper into other religions and myth and look into history and science and compare to see what meaning or value can be derived from that.
I'm writing fiction now and trying to actually get good at art now that I don't care what my parents think. I have friends online but if I get any in real life then I going to have to just go their house because it's going to be a pain if they ever come to my house.
Anyways, if you read to the end of this reddit length comment, cool. I just wanted to sorta share my experience. Thank God, I live in Canada so I don't have to worry about my family killing me.
Wow I relate to you soo much. I’m also a highly creative person and I love drawing humans and animals ahaha. My parents haven’t banned me from drawing but they do say it’s wrong and I’m wasting my time and getting sin. The mosque taught it to my younger sisters a few months ago and they quit drawing. We used to draw together, doing redraws of each other’s characters in our own styles and stuff. I miss it a lot and I cant convince them to draw again :( I also realllly wanna learn to play piano but that’s not happening. The main difference is that I’m the oldest so….oof guess I can’t be ur perfect good daughter anymore sorry parents
@@Bluiidayz I feel ya. I'm not sure if I said it in my original comment but instruments I've been interested in too. Particularly guitars or a violin. But I had to be restricted to just playing the drums in music class for fear of my mother finding out from parent-teacher conferences of me playing any non-percussion instrument.
I draw sometimes but not infront of my family. I only let my younger sister see my drawings because she draws too. I'm sad to hear that your sisters lost that passion for drawing.
I don't want to make this reply too long, but I hope things get better for you.
@@failedatmakingasandwich423 Aw I miss music classes. I used to play guitar in yr 5 and 6 but obviously it’s the schools so we had to return them before leaving. And I used to have music lessons. My parents were fine cause I had to do it anyways. My sisters haven’t lost the passion to draw which makes it so much sadder cause sometimes they’ll tell me they miss drawing but oh well it’s for the best (spoiler nothing good is actually coming of it but they don’t know).
And wow props to u for giving up hijab I was going to fake it in college (wear it on the way then remove at school) but guess what. I’m being forced to wear abaya so that’s gonna look super weird :( I wear abaya rn to school but don’t wear it outside. I wear knee length dresses usually so when I mentioned not wearing abaya to college I thought my parents were gonna be chill w it but no. They screamed at me and lectured me and said look everyone else is wearing it. They told me to stop being different (since I like drawing too -_- ) and to stop going down the wrong path and blablabla. The sad thing is u think u have a choice until u decide to take it off. Then u realise it was always forced
Oh my daysss sorry for such a long reply 😅
I wish u a happy life, we can get through this!
@@Bluiidayz No worries! And I wish you good luck with your life as well. 🙂
i’m muslim communist leftist feminist & im an artist just ignore mainstream salafis and flawed hadiths & you’ll be a lot more happier in the deen honestly 💀
Why hasn’t this channel blown up yet? He has so many profound and important ideas. He needs to be heard by more than 180k people.
Correction, 200k
The short answer is Cognitive dissonance.
Because of what you said after the "?"...
He needs to correct his ignorance about religion 1st tho and educate himself about the many incorrect faces of an idealism which he has splashed with the same brush, but that can all be corrected with education and an open mind.
@@leighatkins22 Out of curiosity, how is he ignorant about religion specifically?
No ideaology should get free Free Pass
That's the whole point of this video...
Except if the ideology is true...
If the ideology is true, then it wouldn't *need* a free pass.
@@Ponera-Sama
Ohh...I misunderstood the comment...lol...
I thought it's saying that no ideology should ever be accepted...
I'm probably blind or brain dead atm...
@@hsunteik There is no such thing as the "true" ideology, that is a contradictory thing to a nonsensical degree.
As ex Muslim, ty so much for this awasome video ❤
I'm at 9:30 .
I'm a Chinese. I'm now a Christian. So I'm fascinated by your experiences.
I always wondered what it would have been like if I grew up as a British Christian, and if my life would have been better, and if maybe I would have been less clueless and less ignorant about the world around me.
Turns out, it would just trade one form of cluelessness and ignorance about the world with another.
We're all born as children, completely unaware of all the darkness that this world is filled with until we came into this world. Our parents form a protective bubble around us to shield us from all evils, the best they know how. But we all eventually have to grow up and see the world our parents had to survive in to create that beautiful environment which is a safe harbour of that childhood innocence we all had.
I remember moving from China to Germany to join my parents. At that time, I thought there were only two languages in the world: Chinese and "foreign". And since my only experience with a non Chinese language was German, I thought that "foreign" was German.
Imagine my surprise when the other children told me that the reason why I couldn't understand a word of that Macarena song was because it was in Spanish, a third language I wasn't even conscious of until that point in time. For them, it was all so obvious. Spain was a different country. In Spain, they speak Spanish. In Germany, we speak German. And in China, we spoke Chinese. But I couldn't wrap my head around this concept that not only did we Chinese find others incomprehensible and foreign, foreigners can find each other incomprehensible and foreign. That was a very foreign concept to me.
As I grew older, we moved to New Zealand when I was 6, and I was told that we have to speak English now, and we can't speak German anymore. I was taught that the English way of saying kindergarden was preschool. Imagine my shock when I saw kindergartens in New Zealand! But they were different. The Kindergartens I went to in Germany kept us alternating between indoors and outdoors after a set period of time. I found that rather disruptive. In New Zealand, kindergarden seemed to just be a generic word used for a place to leave your children to be looked after with a group of other children which is also government certified to do so and to have people who have passed certain tests to look after your children with certain hours of operation and a fee and certain options to get government funding provided you're happy to not be able to keep them there full time.
Coming to New Zealand, I had to learn how to deal with broader and broader definitions that might just give you a vague sense of what they mean while leaving a lot to the imagination. I no longer had access to a group of people who communicated in exact terms. It was frustrating.
Anyway, this has very little to do with Islam.
I was just surprised how innocent you were in your concept of Islam and how you took whatever your teachers told you at face value. In China, we're kinda used to being lied to, so we take everything we're told with a grain of salt. Apparently, it makes us hard to work with. I wouldn't be surprised. We double check everything. It pays off eventually. But at the time, it'll probably look completely unnecessary. At least, I do. Not sure if it's my Chinese side or my German side. Whatever it is, it can't be my Kiwi side.
But I'm inspired by your courage in being so transparent. I'm learning about this here in the West. Especially as a Christian. The importance of being transparent with God. How it's good for me. And it lets God as Light shine right through me, sometimes, even into the hearts of others through me. How healthy it is. How it kills off the germs of secrets.
Anyway, wishing you all the best.
Zhou
@Maximal
Yeah. It's kinda funny. By the time I got to New Zealand, it was my turn to have to explain to people Chinese don't speak Korean, ninjas are Japanese, not Chinese, and most Mainland Chinese don't actually speak Cantonese.
That was another form of eye opening.
To see that even though others know things I don't, others also don't think things that are now so obvious to me.
I no longer know where all of that leaves me.
I just feel lost, knowing either too little, or too much.
Peace brother, I enjoyed your story, thanks for sharing! I am in the process of converting from an atheistic view of the world to Christianity. God bless you 🙏
@@TheTacticalMess
If you want my two cents, I'm still undergoing this process. I think doubt is the human default. Faith is something God has to work into us.
It's invisible. Yet, whatever God does leaves a permanent mark, and when it pops out of me, I always rejoice that there is some proof that whatever God did in me was not in vain, even if there are days when I feel like I'm just as bad as I always was, since whatever sins I committed in my childhood, even here in my young adulthood, moving towards middle age, all the potential is still there, just waiting for a trigger to grow into its full ugliness.
People respect me, however, and look up to me. But I think it's just because I'm a bit more conscious of how foul I am when I don't keep an eye on my own depravity. My self supervision takes a bit of the burden off the others, which makes them like me and appreciate me... Sometimes.
@@zhouwu If you are from PRC there is also something else you have to know: the CCP is eliminating Chinese minorities, even right now, both culturally and literally.
Maybe I'm an outlier, but I was never all that insulated from the world in my childhood. My mom and dad didn't go out of their way to present the darker sides of human nature, but I wasn't isolated from them either. My mom figured parents had two options: trying to childproof the world, or worldproof the child, and felt the latter was far and away the more viable. So, I was never really isolated from the complexities and problems that the world and life held. I might not have understood them fully, but I was aware of them.
I can't say I don't have some lingering traumas from that (as an example, my dad liked cop shows a little too much, and I picked up some anxieties about crime from that), or that I couldn't be naive and uninformed when I was younger. I can be that way even now. Nor that I don't have rosy memories of when I was a kid. Obviously, my parents did their best to keep me physically safe, and did it rather well. But they didn't try to shield me from "all evils" in the world, at least conceptually. I knew that I could be harmed, and I knew plenty of ways it could happen, both to me and to others. And I honestly think I turned out pretty alright, even without my parents protecting me in that sense.
My parents were atheist, albeit with a tiny bit of a New Age, Pagan bent. But I think some of it was just that they liked being a touch provocative, and found some comfort in vague spiritualism and ritual. I'm a harder atheist, and can't conceive of accepting most Abrahamic religions. If I was going to believe in anything, I'd probably be a polytheist of some sort. Maybe a polytheistic deist, since I just can't see the universe as being made by any single, omnipotent, omnibenevolent actor. There's too many nasty, contradictory aspects to life.
Even so, I did still pick up the idea that Muslims in the US needed to be protected. But I never really extended it to the religion, consciously, nor did I ever consider it a "religion of peace". Never really thought much about it, nor considered it a religion of anything, except maybe one with silly ideas about when people were allowed to eat, sometimes, since a Muslim girl in one of my classes had to skip lunch for a chunk of the year, and one with some extremist members. Which I didn't consider strange, since most religions, in my mind, went through a "violent phase" at some point in their history, or had a few bad apples in their number.
Now, I feel that there are a lot more than a *few* bad apples, but still don't feel the need to judge all Muslims based on it. Not quite sure how well I could maintain a friendship with one if they believed in Hell, though. The Quran gets pretty visceral in describing what happens to atheists in the afterlife, and anyone who truly believes I deserve that sort of punishment...isn't likely to be someone I'd want to be friends with. Same applies to really hardcore Christians, honestly. It's a bit of a make-or-break subject for me.
As an American, much of the previous exposure I've had to criticism of Islam has been from Christian conservatives. I had a manager once who referred to people from the Middle East as "sand n*****s". I was nervous to watch this video as a result, but I found it incredibly thoughtful instead.
Thank you. I think your comment underscores why we need to have more considered human conversations about these subjects - because they so often get sidelined and crowded out by dehumanising parties.
Yup, heard that one before growing up in rural US. Pretty gross the amount of genuine Islamophobia exists in the US...
Your example wasn’t a critique of religion, but race. Sweetly ironic that folks from the ‘nation of immigrants’ fail to grasp the difference.
@@TheRestedOne As far as conservative Americans are concerned - particularly the Evangelical crowd - Muslims are as much a different race as they are a different religion. Let's start with the fact that majority of American conflicts for the past 40 years have been focused in Muslim-majority countries in the middle east, so there's an automatic connection in the minds of American citizens that people from these regions are dangerous, that their countries are run by harsh regimes with brutal punishments, and that they are not compatible with American life. The preachers continue to hype up the differences between Christianity and Islam as though it is a difference between good and evil, without recognizing that they, too, suffer from the same issues due to being - surprise, surprise - an organized religious body with a strict set of guidelines on how their followers should live. The sad fact is that it works; I went to college with people who were convinced by chain letters and word of mouth that Barack Obama was a secret Muslim "terrorist" who prayed to Mecca five times a day, with no other evidence than, "Well, just LOOK at him."
Well read the Quran and you will find some really messed up shit in there. Even if most arent terrorists Most do support the acts of these terrorist organizations. Approximately 80% of the Muslim world supports jihad indirectly. Othering them by calling them slurs is a natural defense towards those that other you.
I've watched tons of youtube atheist shows, but this one stands out for it's "polished logic", clear and concise insights and easy to follow visuals. An absolute pleasure to watch.
It is polished logic, well said. Meticulously thought out, and intricately correct.
Good deal. Of atheist on this level and better doing great work.
sure he just made a stupid mistake in photosynthesis. So much for your polished logic.
Even in the video where he talks about photosynthesis, he makes a mistake about how plants survive, plants survive by respiration not by photosynthesis,
if it were photosynthesis, then all plants would die at night . Photosynthesis helps in production of glucose.
@@mohammedzaidkhan5687 Really?
You can't attack his logic so you have to point to an "alleged scientific mistake"?
You completely missed the point, as this was not a video on science, but rather the faults & flaws of Islam and the harm it can cause it's followers.
@@moodyrick8503 the logic he used to try to show that the islam is false was scientific evidence that was supposed to go against the text. But he in the first place doesnt have the knowledge to judge the book correctly . Hence his logic fails as it overlooks human error.
If you argue on the concept of apostacy , who knows whether God has ordered the execution of an apostate due to political, social reasons or other reasons or not, or just becuz of his will towards the people who have angered him.Are you sure that there are no socio-political reasons? Morality of people change with time and era, and this man is the perfect example that humans make mistakes and do not possess adequate knowledge , which might result in a blunder in decision making at times. Therefore you cannot use science which is vulnerable to human error to just throw away a religion which might be God's.(not implying that it goes against religion cuz i have not checked). . Science changes with theories that match observations.The best example is evolution acc to me.
God is all-knowing ,all wise and knows every possible result of every possible combination of parameters in society. He wont waste pages of his book to give u reasoning, if he decides to give you reasoning and wisdom in a spoon then all the world's paper isnt enough.It is up to us to ponder upon the possible wisdoms behind his laws .
Our job is to verify if a religion is the religion of God and blindly accept its rulings if it is.
Now i do think it is bold of you to throw away the testimonies of peoples of different times about miracles.You use science for everything other than explaning miracles.
_"Madness can take many forms, none so as contemptible as man's belief in a mythology of his own making. A world view buttressed by dogmatic desperation invariably leads to single minded fanaticism, and the need to do terrible things in the name of righteousness"_
as ab ex-muslim i support these ideas. I live in turkey and I was lacking belief in Allah when I was 7. And I left Islam in 10. My dad was an atheist too so I didn't get any opposition in family. so I thought everyone would accept me for who I am. When I was 13 I cane out to the school as non-muslim and I got bullied a lot. At least I helped some atheist in our class to come out and stand before me. One kid even threatened to kill me. islam is not a religion of peace it supports bullying and killing everyone that isn't the same as them. So stop calling people islamaphobic when they criticise Islam.
girl just cause ur classmates wanted you dead doesn’t mean the religion supports that they don’t represent all muslims 💀 like i’m tired of ppl like you who think all muslims must represent the religion perfectly there are muslim bullies fs muslims who drink, do bad things, etc at the end of the day we’re ppl and ppl can be fucked up yk
As a Moroccan, I must say you have it "lucky" in Turkey, thanks to Secularism you have a far better situation for non-muslims than other Muslim countries.
@@mohamedjear8917 That is a very sad reality. I really hope the years ahead bring progress and improvement in that regard, one can hope...
@@magical571 The number of muslim theocratic dictatorships has only increased over the past 50 years. Every muslim majority country is a violent dictatorship nowadays. Its not a coincidence, they're just doing what the koran tells them to.
To bring forth progress, we really need to stop treating islam as "just another religion" and start seeing it as the disgrace that it is.
As an ex Muslim who grew up in Saudi Arabia speaks fluent Arabic and knows scripture Intimately this video is accurate about its depreciation of Islam and Islamic culture
الله يهديك
@@MohammedAlSharif2002 He did. That's why he left Islam like me alhamdulilah
@Idk tbh ngl It’s my country too but I left anyways so hope that makes u happy it definitely made me happy leaving lol
@Idk tbh ngl feeling is mutual
@Idk tbh ngl and you wonder why people hate Islam? lmao. they are still from Saudi even if you don't like to think so. whatcha gonna do? kill them to "restore your honour"?
Honestly I'm surprised you don't get more shoutouts from other atheist UA-camrs - well, at least the ones I watch - because your videos are fantastic.
Nice profile pic. Nurse Redheart is best pony
Well not all youtubers can share this channel too, if i had a sarcastic channel this would be too serious and people would do false obligations. btw i found this channel from youtube recommendations
Because ThereminTrees doesn't just spout the usual scathing canned commentary on easy targets, he actually does some in-depth, researched analysis that employs actual psychological science.
And most atheist youtubers don't much care for that, sadly. It's easier to point and laugh.
@@antonioscendrategattico2302 I don't think that's fair - to a few of them, at the very least. Most of them are just less on the psychology side of things that they address.
@@lisamariefan I think there definitely are more respectable ones. I love AronRa, Potholer54, Wildwoodclaire, Martymer81 and others. But the majority of atheist youtubers are a bunch of pretentious edgelords.
i hope parinda is doing amazing today. shes so brave for standing with what she believes, and i hope to be like her(as an ex muslim myself)
I got anxious, expecting the worst when he said "on her last day". I'm so glad he didn't mean it this way.
I’ve always found left wing defenders of Islam frankly bizarre… I’ve grown up with progressives in my family and I consider myself a progressive myself, but I also went to school with a lot of Muslims and saw firsthand what their ideology looks like up close - one even told me directly that his father would murder him if he expressed the views on god that I would casually make as an atheist. To me it was clear very early on that the Christian Nationalists my parents had so much loathing for looked an awful lot like the average Muslims I went to school with and as a result I’ve mentally just seen them as fundamentally the same people - just with different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. This to me is also the great irony of a lot of the commentary from other progressives that came after the release of the Handmaid’s Tale - progressives would seemingly unwittingly opine at how a disaster like that could unfold in a western country if Christian extremists took control, yet in the same breath defend Islam from “Islamophobia” - never realising that the dystopia that is the handsmaid’s tale looks a heck of a lot like a lot of current day Islamic countries.
“Traditions are solutions to forgotten problems.”
Good one. I always say tradition is peer pressure by dead people.
ixlnxs Traditions connect us to our past.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 Bu not all should be implemented in the present or future since the difference in environment, norms, and society, some are backward concept that could do more harm for present society.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 not everything from the past is worth commemorating
Williem Herbert Society has changed far faster than we have. In reality, we’ve just stepped out of the jungle, yet flatter ourselves by thinking we’re ready for the stars. Laughable.
NO religion should have privileged immunity.
John Muller nor any other belief system. Not even science should be protected, scrutiny filters good ideas and bad ideas.
And exactly the same for political or "science" ideologies which should likewise Never get that same immunity. Have so many of us jumped from the frying pan into the fire to be $aved? Read, "Why Orwell Matters." It's not just religion to watch out for, but, political-corporate and "science" ideology masquerading as the Hole-y Prophets of Reason who can do no wrong.
@@3ittybittypiggiesstorytime547 just say ben sharpieo and jj peperson
No idea, no belief, no religion, and no value; none should have immunity.
There is a war in islam with privilege given to Hindus sikhs Christians Buddhists and Jews... Not Islam or Muslims.. If you're weren't so bling you'd see this.
You are soo unbiased, I'm trying to be more unbiased about things, I'm grateful that there are people who talk unbiased about religion
I really really really really hope Parinda sees your video. That would bring me joy somehow.
Parinda got in deep. I remember what a struggle it was recording that part. Even today, the tears are right there waiting to happen. She was an amazing person.
@@TheraminTrees it was very sad listening to that also.
As an ex muslim that questioned god very early on but was lucky enough to come from a very progressive family that only accepts the parts of scripture that aren't in conflict with modern science i really appreciate the nuance in your video
Thanks
As the paradigms of science change so does your reality. The fslscy that science brings truth is a false one and you should definitely try to intellectualise your criticism's dude
were you "questioning" God, or were you pandering to the uncertainty planted into your head by the Devil.
@@zues3663 i just never felt faith deep inside. Funnily enough my family says that despite my lack of faith i'm pretty much a good muslim because i still do what's most important. If you think praying, fasting, not drinking and not eating pork are more important than being good to people and helping the poor i don't really know what to tell you...
@@TehOneh im a Muslim that actually sympathizes apostates and agnostics rather than have a resounding resentment for them. However, im also of the opinion that apostates and non-practicing Muslims are terribly misguided in their notions and upbringing towards Islam. Theres a reason we Muslims refer to a script, rather than rely on the dogma propagated by a higher authority that claims to be an arbiter of said religion similar to how Christians have The Vatican dictating Christendom. This is the biggest misconception about Abrahamic beliefs in general. Islam is not a blind ideology (and so should Judaism and Christianity), it is infact a religion emphasizing on monotheism (Tauheed). Islam's very core axioms (self-evident truths) is Tauheed. Without acknowledging this axiom, we instead rely on pure human logic or philosophy which is imperfect and not universally applicable by nature. Logic =/ reality but perception, hence our logic or perception on what is "truth" is not consistent in every individual. The reality of our human logic is that we are not equal in capability or understanding, hence our propensity as humans to argue or reason with people of differing ideas or beliefs (or as what TheraminTrees calls it, The Marketplace of Ideas). Without the ability to reason, we cant propose as Muslims that Islam is a monotheistic religion as an example. I also want to stress that Islam isnt necessarily anti-science, but rather scientifically "a priori" (theoretical, instead of empirical). Similar as to how astrophysicists theorize that the universe started from the Big Bang or how evolutionary biologists theorize that humans came from primates. And for Muslims to empirically prove that Islam is a priori true, actually comes from studying and understanding the Quran, and practice life according to it instead of what the religious authority says it is.
Whenever you upload a new video, I shut off all distractions, especially social media, wear my headset and watch it with uninterrupted attention all the way through. Never stop making content. My favourite UA-cam channel hands down.
Hey Tranquil ;8) Lovely to see your name pop up
TranquilOblivion my exact thoughts. No matter what I previously intended to do, when I see an update from Theramin Trees, I immediately give it my undivided attention.
Lovely to see a new video, TT. By the way, I'm gladly working on the Arabic subtitles for this, but they might take longer than usual for the video is longer than usual :D
I agree. This is an excellent channel.
Yes!! TT is THE best!!!
Lately my attention span is getting shorter, but somehow your video here is interesting enough for me to watch until the end, at the first time.
Also, I like your clarity of thought and insightful ideas here. Thank you.
3:13 I love the extra detail you put where you said "many folks have grown SICK" with the abbreviation of "shunned, imprisoned, censored, killed" on the screen reads out SICK. It may or may not be intentional,
As an ex muslim from Indonesia, I thank you for this video, if only there's a way for me to add captions for your amazing video in my language, all the hours it'll take will definitely be worth it if it changes just one muslim to accept criticism and be more critical of his (or any) ideas.
Vin, did you see kedrednael's comment? C:
Without the brotherhood Islam provided for your different peoples, Indonesia would not be a state. It would have been several different, small, weak states and you would have been genocided away by the dutch and japanese.
@@chraman169 I'm seeing you everywhere in these comments. You really are trying your hardest to provide damage control to Islam and religions in general..
@@SolitudeCS How is that? Look what I wrote and tell me how it is wrong. It is absolutely true. His nation would not exist and he would speak japanese or dutch if his ancestors would not have been muslim. Yet he spits on their heritage and suffering.
I don't need this, I have Allah with me
@@kedrednael wow that's amazing, sorry for the late reply, I'll start working on it as soon as I can and notify you here when I'm done, thanks for the opportunity! any ideas how to send it after it's done?
The stories you told are an example of how good people can believe horrible things.
My grandparents were the greatest people I ever met. But they hated my country to the core. Humans are complex being.
People can only think for what they know.
But, at a certain point, if those horrible beliefs translate into horrible actions, does that not make them horrible people?
@@mtk77621 it does
World scale religions are chosen based on their ability to make good people act in terrible ways and bad people look good.
This video was uploaded 6 years ago. Few weeks ago an Ex Muslim man from Iraq burned a Quran in Sweden. Iraqi people went crazy. They were screaming wanting to attack him. In Iraq they burned down Swedish Embassy.
It shows exactly how insecure Islam and it's believers are. They are so afraid of losing their feeble religion, that they are willing to murder.
I get it… That’s the nature of religion.
@@johnnyxmusic Yeah. A religion shouldn't be controlling people so much, especially when it wasn't updated or changed. it would be like if Christians were using the old bible which is a bit insane because how different views were back then. Muslims need to update their Quran at least. Also, they shouldn't this sensitive. That religion made Middle East even worse. Not to mention Jews can be as radical in their views. They have a superiority complex. Religion makes it worse most of the time.
I found that the more i learned about religion the less i believed.
If you really question your religious dogma with an open heart it will become very obvious that this stuff is completely made up.
I'm a muslim. What I enjoyed most about this video was that it was the first-ever account by a non-muslim westerner that I've seen criticizing Islam without that undertone of bigotry I've grown accustomed to - it is an intellectually honest take. You did well to consider islam as the muslims experienced it and not in how it poses a threat to you. One thing that may fall slightly outside the scope of your video but that I feel is not acknowledged enough is that muslims around the world feel threatened by the world's superpowers, and so many young muslims have been brought up believing that they are targetted by secularists and communists (west and east) and I think that it plays a role in their adherence to dogma. The state of islam today is truly a shell of its early self - avenues of debate are shut now and all challenges to status quo ideals are considered threats that must be eliminated. I'm from the "middle east" and it really does feel that the people in that part of the world are in a kind of collective post-traumatic state where they're hypervigilant and threatened. There is a void caused especially by yet unresolved neocolonial expansion into the region over the last century and it left many muslims feeling hopeless or betrayed, and that took them in many directions - some lead to outward violence whereas the majority lead to internalized anger and impotence that was passed down. It's my conviction that there is a way forward for muslims and islam that is independent of external aid. It is a process of reanimation and evolution and it will hurt, but it is in every way going to be a process that the muslims themselves have to go through and no non-muslim could act as surrogate and take them through it. It's worth saying that until the political empowerment of theocratic despots by superpowers playing cold war ceases, this process will be an exceedingly difficult uphill battle for those muslims trying to reform their religion. Anyway, I hope you read this. I was drawn to your channel because of the psychology videos. Great stuff. :)
*"The state of islam today is truly a shell of its early self - avenues of debate are shut now and all challenges to status quo ideals are considered threats that must be eliminated."*
- I believe this is why Muslisms face the bigotry you describe. Here in the west we know this is the state of Islam today, but we are not allowed to say it. We are not allowed to say these people are vile and do not allow to have the status quo challenged. We know that these people move to the west and try to enforce this on people there as well even if they are not Muslims. This only breeds resentment, and the fact anyone that does criticise Muslims can be sent to jail for hate speech because these Muslims will be enraged when they are challenged. What cause bigotry is the fact westerners see the problem, but are expected to pretend they see nothing while they are demanded to be "more sensitive" to islamic sensitivities in their own nations. That Muslims should be more sensitive to other cultures sensitivities when they are in their nations seems to not be something no one try to tell them.
@Moeski Thank you very much for this comment; it has given me a much-needed insight into the possible experiences and mentalities of Muslims in the Middle East.
@@Cloud_Seeker You do not seem to have taken on board what the commenter said about the siege mentality arising from imperialism and superpower interference in the Middle East. Until we in 'the West' come to terms and attempt to address our historical imperialist and contemporary neo-imperialist actions and attitudes towards the Middle East, it seem clear that it makes it much more difficult to have these discussions with Muslims, even though it is ultimately true that religious and political reform must come from Muslims themselves.
I seriously doubt you are from the middle east. Though if you are, grats on being one of the only educated Muslims over there.
@@dreamer2260 Okay okay. Calm down commie. It is time to take your meds and have a little nap. You can join Stalin and Hitler screaming at the imperialists tomorrow.
And really, it's quite sad I'm afraid to share this video.
Max Labb , I wanna share it too but also to afraid too. Fear because i know it will result in social suicide. One day I’m going to share it.
Same
@@mariae321 I guess i'm lucky in that i don't care, and neither does anyone in the area.
Yeah a "peaceful" relgious follower that knows you personally may try and kill you, I mean you are a apostate or some shit right? Haha
Yes. I would get such insane attacks from every possible side, including telling me stuff like you are depressed because you are a dumb atheist and its Gods punishment.
As an ex muslim living in France I wish I could share this video everywhere (unfortunately I have to pretend to be muslim in front of my family). This is spot on. A big problem I have in France is that in the media and politics, those who criticize Islam at all hate immigrants and are very right wing. So the leftists decided to take a victimizing apporach to islam and muslim. I was called islamophobic and ignorant for saying that islam doesn't deserve respect, very ironic considering I was raised into this religion. As more people speak up, things will get better in the world.
Je te rejoins complètement. C'est impossible de critiquer l'islam sans qu'on te colle l'étiquette d'extrême droite. L'ironie c'est que l'islam a beaucoup plus en commun avec la droite que la gauche.
Exactement, si la droite n'était pas autant anti islam et immigration, ils seraient les meilleurs amis du monde. Il faut qu'ils se réveillent à gauche parce que c'est ridicule de défendre l'islam de la sorte@@labranehit7687
This gave me some perspective on my immediate choice to ignore some genuine positive and humanitarian attitudes of my Christian family, friends, peers. I fell into viewing Christians as lesser because I had a negative experience growing up, but in truth it doesn’t justify the fear and mistrust I automatically felt. This caused a fractured relationship with my mother that to this day I’m trying to repair my image of her.
on the topic of Religious Education in the UK, which I also endured in secondary school, I remember that my RE teacher was very pro-burka. She told us that the burka is a wonderful tool for feminism in Islam, and that it promotes being non-judgmental of the woman's body. Even back then this didn't make sense to me, to me it seemed to do the exact opposite of removing judgment from the woman - instead she has no freedom to express herself with the way she wants to dress, so she must be perceived in a very specific way. Of course, I was not raised Muslim so I can't appreciate any deeper cultural things about it, and I am not against hijab or burka if a woman truly wishes to wear one, but it should certainly not be forced upon them by religion, and I think it was unfair of my teacher to take a specific side defending them, she should have been more objective and looked at the concerns as well as the benefits.
I mean, if it wasn’t something enforced culturally to and impractical and even cruel degree, if it was genuinely freely chosen, it could be a great thing.
Great thing about the RE teachers in my school is that they teach religion from an objective and criticised way
I really miss my RE lessons from year 7 and 8
@@darkstarr984 Exactly. As purely cultural attire, I wouldn't find a reason to even comment on it, any more than I do my dad's current fashion choices (he's gone back to being a practicing Orthodox Jew after a long time of being an atheist). It's how voluntary the choice to wear it is that matters.
It is outrageous that the process of reasonable evaluation of concepts, and criticisms of outlandish and untenable dogma is now called a "phobia"..
It's the same problem flipped. There are a lot of people who blindly hate Muslims and others see this and think it extends to all criticism of Islam.
An adult Pulling an 11 year old girls hijab off and spitting on her is called evaluation of concepts is it? 🤔
@@kaylabaker2099 your point is understood however the op denying islamaphobia is akin to denying racism...its ridiculous..
I'm a convert to Islam..I came to realise most of the fears I once had of Islam and Muslims was overblown way out of proportion.. I had a smiler mentality to yours... Islam is not the threat..
I assure you of this.. Addressing it the way you are is focused incorrectly because you're attacking something that does not exist...
Your mind like most people's has been conditioned by half truths and disinformation..even the one uploading the video.. .there is no escaping that..
Ill elaborate on this further in due course.. .. And Trust me, the issues are way bigger than Islam and Muslims...
the trouble is you're being forced to focus on that target by design even though this serves no real purpose or will benefit you or society in the long term or even the short. .it has in fact a detrimental effevt
.. Thats the design.. . .. I'll explain all of this in due course my friend..🙏
@@kaylabaker2099 oppression of women? Killing non believers? Sharia courts? Trouble is with you lot you seem to know everything when in fact you know very little. These buzzwords are very popular these days..
i bet you couldn't even elaborate on any one of them and show me actual proof of the what your talking about..
I'm going to unwrap your every misconceptions Kayla.. I assure You of this.. .. Its when you level things against Muslims without understanding the dynamics of a society, its culture or how much if any influence religion has, you'll understand why labelling you Islamophobic is fully justified.. You may not be Islamophobic by its true definition but your certainly on track... Its a slippery slope I assure you..
You blame something which is the least blameworthy so Ill make an example of you if you should be so kind enough to give me the opportunity.....
You tell what came into that head of yours when you alluded to those sharia courts and people promoting them.. ..dont Google anything.. Just tell me what your immidiate thoughts were and what youve come to know about them through the regular brainwashing you've endured since 911?
@@kaylabaker2099 kayla, not a single person was ever executed SIMPLY for leaving Islam.. That was the point I made.
People have been sentenced for blasphemy.. Which is true.. but that's not what you Iinitially said.... You said people get killed simply for leaving Islam.. That has actually NEVER happened..
There is law in every country that is there to maintain peace harmony and no on should have to the right to abuse anyone elses prophet or deity..
I may not agree with the sentence but if you create division in society knowing the consequences, then you deal with the consequences.. You'll find that in the few countries where blasphemy carries the death penalty, the law states that you'll be punished for abusing anyone's prophet or deity also, not just islam..
Some muslims believe in disgusting things , so as a muslim im glad i grew up in a muslim family who actually taught me to be open minded as well as peaceful , and im glad my parents taught me how to defend myself and im just as valubal and capibal as a man , my family is amazing and thats why i feel bad for those who grew up in an extrimes family
It's not always the family, but the society surrounding it all. Many families cannot afford to be fair and truthful, as they risk being punished themselves.
Sharia tends to be rule by fear and brutality.
@@puppieslovies and that's 100% true
@@puppieslovies yeah , sharia dous that for criminals tho .
Ur free to state ur opinion by sharia
@@erenyeager888 and in the process, every innocent person is under much more scrutiny and danger
In the USA, it's estimated that up to 10% of convictions are false. As Sharia always has a much less strict system of evidence, I'd imagine many more than 10% of killings are of innocent people.
@@puppieslovies nah fam , no innocent person is gonna have a problem unless ur definition of innocent are rpsts and mùrdèr
And the evidence needed in sharia is usual pictures and regular old evidence, and mainly witness's.
Around 3 to be exact.
The problem in America is a lady can make a claim that is supported by absolutely none, yet the court treats it as guilty till proven inocant. Like what happend to Johnny depp.
That's why alot of innocent ppl get in jail .
And I didn't get ur second point "I'd imagine more then 10% of kìlings are of inocant ppl "
So u agree that sharia should be strict on these ppl ?
As a devout indonesian muslim educated in a pious yet moderate and modern environment i must confess its quiet a fresh air to just receive these kinds of unbiased discussions, im actually kinda in a quandary regarding my beliefs as well though these had subsided for a while but some paradoxical questions persisted to bedevil me
Regardless i was foreboding something thatll mindlessly chastised us as usual but im actually quiet flabbergasted by your insightful discussion
Bro your comment is so extra😂
Anyhow, what were you referring to regarding quandaries and paradoxes?
Indonesian vocabulary is something else😂
39:09 OK I lost it. I have no words for how brilliant your videos are. I don't normally get emotional but today I'm especially tired from work and cried knowing there are people who are in geniune, reasonable fear for their lives who find hope in what you and others like you do.
Never stop.
A combination of being tired and being human ;8) The conditions some people are quietly, invisibly enduring are unthinkable aren't they. Part of me always buckles when I think of Ravi and his friends.
It's not "just" a religion. It's political ideology, policy, indoctrination, education and a way of life.
Wow..no wonder its the fastest growing.. Umm
. Its the fastest growing way of life on mother earth..
@Gregisonutube Quran:
Did the unbelievers not realize that the heavens and the earth were one solid mass, then We tore them apart,8 and We made every living being out of water? Will they, then, not believe (that We created all this)?
(The following verses were revealed after 13 years of continued persecution during which Muslims were completely pacifist getting killed and hunted down like animals and when they could bare no more, God revealed all the fighting verses all other fighting verses were revealed prior to each battle and in self defence also. Islam forbids preemptive hostile action.
Quran:
Allah does
NOT FORBID YOU from those who
DO NOT FIGHT YOU because of your religion and
DO NOT EXPEL YOU from your homes - from being
RIGHTEOUS
TOWARD THEM and
ACTING JUSTLY
TOWARD THEM. Indeed,
GOD LOVES those who
ACT
JUSTLY.
Fight in the way of God
THOSE who
FIGHT YOU but
DO
NOT
INITIATE
HOSTILITIES /TRANSGRESS . Indeed. God
DOES NOT LIKE TRANSGRESSORS.
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from
WHEREVER THEY have
EXPELLED YOU........
And
IF THEY CEASE,
THEN YOU CEASE, indeed, God is Forgiving and Merciful.......
Quran:
Fight them until there is no fitnah and worship is for Allah .
BUT IF THEY CEASE, then there is to be
NO AGGRESSION except
AGAINST THE OPPRESSORS.
[Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So
WHOEVER HAS ASSAULTED YOU, then assault him
ONLY IN THE SAME WAY THAT HE HAS ASSAULTED YOU.....
.........................
Quran:
“Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”
Quran:
Woe to those who pray, who are heedless of their prayer, who pray
ONLY TO BE SEEN and WITHHOLD SMALL ACTS of KINDNESS...........
Shall I not tell you for whom the Hellfire is forbidden? It is EVERY person ACCESSIBLE, POLITE, and MILD.
Quran:
Goodness does not consist in turning your face towards East or West. The truly good are those who believe in God and the Last Day, in the angels, the Scripture, and the prophets; who give away some of their wealth, however much they cherish it, to their relatives, to orphans, the needy, travelers and beggars and to liberate those in debt and bondage; those who keep up the prayers and pay the prescribed alms; who keep pledges whenever they make them; who are steadfast in misfortune, adversity and times of danger. These are the ones who are true, and it is they who are aware of God.
Quran:
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, CONFIRMING the SCRIPTURE that came BEFORE IT, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee.
To EACH among the NATIONS we have we PRESCRIBED a LAW and an OPEN WAY.
If God had so willed,
HE COULD have made
YOU ALL
ONE SINGLE PEOPLE, but (His plan is) to
TEST YOU ALL in what He hath given you: so strive as in a
RACE in All VIRTUES OF
GOOD/RIGHTEOUS DEEDS....
The return of you (all) is to God; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ/dispute..
...............
Greg, can you find me anything better than this?
If you can then I will leave Islam and follow that instead..
@GregisonutubeThe first verse gives you an idea of how the universe began.. Its the truth..such knowledge cannot be from anyone other than the one who designed it..
The following verses give you an Indication of the mindset of those who PRACTICE the religion..
To me those are also the words of an omnipotent God.. It benefits only the individual and prepares one for the after life.. Do you find any fault with the verses or any verse of the Quran in fact?
If this wasn't from God, then there would be many books out there like this but there aren't..that also gives you an Indication of it being an extraordinary book..
Do you have something better?
@Gregisonutube Nobody worships a holy book but rather follow its teachings and if any of those scriptures claim it to be from the Lord of the words, we test it using our reason and intellect..
You say youre not religious then you have no right to talk about morality or ethics. It's an oxymoron if you ask me. But that aside.
Since you did mention immorality and faults in the Quran, perhaps you'd be so kind elaborate on these faults and highlight the immoral passages?
@GregisonutubeI'm a convert Greg. I think i did a fair amount of research into Gods revelation before I felt I needed to accept it.
As for athics and morality, actually I have everyt right but you do not. Our rules are perfect and set in stone. Yours can change on a whim let's not go there..
Please present your evidence!
thank you for existing, theramin.
Funnily enough, my tipping point out of christianity was by playing Final Fantasy X when I was 12... Practically every line of dialogue in this game is made to question religion. My mother was appalled at the idea that I didn't want to go to church anymore but I stood my ground. 16 years later and dozens of religious arguments with my parents and my dad doesn't believe anymore so that's a win.
Huh that's interesting...
I never noticed this about FFX
Mine was finding out my sexuality. I cried when I realized that I might be attracted to the same sex. And prayed for forgiveness. But then I thought, why would God make me this way if it was a sin? Sins are “bad choices” but me liking the same sex wasn’t.
@@starling1226 I'm pretty sure it's more like, God gave you the craving for the same sex for you to fight it. A parallel would be like, God gave another person greediness for him to fight it, another person God gave some other test. Yeah that's what it is, a test. In my religion, well in my sect at least, if you fail the test than that's it. You'll get punished in hell, but that's later. And if you do pass, you'll get some benefits, quite some, since few do.
Anyways, good luck on whatever you're doing pal
@@9zero187 so is this a lifelong test then? Why would god deprive a man of a human connection, a sexual connection, of which he made so important in the very first chapter of his holy book, are you suggesting that he go his whole life without this connection, so that he isn’t “punished in hell” this does not sound like a very moral, or good god to me
Wow, a piece of art full of wisdom for the ages. My transition to atheism happened a decade ago. I went through a phase of obsession with Richard Dawkins-esque pop culture: binge-watching "x destroys y by pure logic", "here's how stupid literal scripture actually is" kinda stuff that made me feel smug about myself. But I have long since passed that stage, moving on to consuming actually enriching content and actually trying to figure out how to live a good life. So I didn't expect to find much value in yet another atheist content creator. But this has pleasantly surprised me by provoking much thought. I wish this project success and hope it inspires a healthy climate of skepticism (directed at ideas) and empathy (directed at people).
Sadly, echoing some of the other comments, I actually feel scared to share this. I fear both the threatening response of religious zealots and the chastising denouncement from cultural relativists.
On a lighter note: it's funny the video starts with a "fictitious" religion that outlaws art and music. Considering the actual subject of the video, is this fiction far from reality?
were you a hindu before brother?
@Achilles Troy I disagree with you completely, this seemed very fair. I think you’re taking a faith based position and you’ve assumed logic can defend it. I don’t think this can be done and I don’t see the fallacies you are talking about. If you do know you should share, and not simply say it is futile!
As an exmuslim myself, I understand how deeply dangerous how the ideology of Islam is. I can't even tell my family and loved ones that I'm no longer a Muslim. Till today, I still lead prayers because friends would literally push you to the front. They have no idea I'm no longer a Muslim and I have no choice but to keep it that way. Many people have been killed and even jailed in my country for daring to criticize this evil cult.
A great example of why humans just cannot coexist healthily with religion around, lmao
I hope you get out of that place 🙏🏾
I can relate. Right now I'm in a taxi to participate in Eid Al Fitr celebrations. I cannot tell my family I'm no longer Muslim because they will not accept it. My only solace is that my wife and I have created a private space where we are free to act as we like without the pressures of our religious society.
@@branan6935 Same situation on my side as well here in Pakistan! Luckily I do have a circle of some friends and relatives who are aware of my beliefs and I don't have to put up an act of being Muslim around them!
I know it's likely far more difficult than I could understand, but I urge you to escape. Such a life-style is un-sustainable, and the danger surrounding your situation is palpable. Even if it required you to abandon precious things, like family, I can still only tell you to find a way out. The price seems high at first, but once you're free, you will feel it. If you escape to a country like the UK or US, etc, you can be yourself; they're not perfect, but you will be free to do much more, to find your happy place and to live without so much restraint.
i remember when i was in college the topic of Islam came up. having recently reading articles about islamic scripture i was passionately critical about the religion. to my shock i was met with extreme hostility. my fellow students said things like "its talk like that which promotes violence" and Chirstianity also has problems. some students shook their heads and turned away from me. as a well-versed but questioning Christian, i was able to defend their counter-criticisms (they should have used better ones), but i felt so isolated. if only my one friend in the class had been present.
i kept providing arguments and defending my position, the class then criticised me for talking behind my friend's back. i was confused, i would do no such thing. apparently my new friend was a Muslim and i had not known. he was not present because he was attending his mosque on Fridays for prayer. it was rather ironic, i wasn't going to compromise what i thought for the sake of our new friendship but i was disheartened to have to disagree with the only person in my class whose presence i enjoyed.
when the inevitable discussion arose, he was friendly and even excited to share Islam from his perspective. i wasn't logically convinced but i was impressed at how noble he seemed expressing how much Allah loves us. i saw in him many similarites that i had when i was a more devout christian. being responsible, polite, diligent - a "do everything as unto the Lord" type attitude and most importantly an attitude of unconditional love for fellow humans.
watching these videos has helped me analyse these past interactions, and i have learned quite a lot:
- despite valid criticisms, people seem to defend Islam and give it immunity to criticisms
- with my valid criticisms, i unfortunately distained an entire group of people. while unknowingly having a new genuine friend who was part of that group. i should judge individuals not groups
- there can be vast differences in how scripture is interpreted in a religion (i should have known this being a Christain) down to the individual level
- one can achieve that positive loving attitude for our fellow humans through different religions, not just Chirstianity. i hope to achieve this again one day, but through myself
Parinda is such a strong woman. Tears in my eyes. One day I'll also take off my hijab and align myself visibly with my own values.
If you dont believe in wearing the hijab right now, take it off, when you are ready and more confident read the Quran when you can and realign yourself with Islam, if you were forced into wearing it, which should not be happening, talk to the person who did that; perhaps your parents and tell why that was a bad thing to be forced upon. I feel for you sister and kind regards and I wish you the best for your future and successes 👍
@@ayA.-ff4lh Why are you telling her to realign herself with Islam rather than just telling her to follow the evidence?
There is a good video about how hijab (the scarf, not the overall call to modesty in clothing and actions) isn't even in the Quran and is not mandatory at all.
It's a Ted talk with a Muslim woman. Also, about 2/3 of Muslim women in the world do not wear hijab but we are almost only shown pictures of those who do.
Salaams :)
@@forestmoss5755 The Ted talk is by some author, she has no actual religious education nor authority to make rulings. And I am going to need a source for that 2/3 muslim women who dont cover their hair
@@ayA.-ff4lh “jack based” is not a Muslim girl. Lol
"Things are more complicated than they appear"... that should come as common sense. Unfortunately, not.
complicated things are complicated :^\
The worst part is when people try to apply a quick and simple fix to complicated problems. Then they have the audacity to be shocked when the fix fails or in some cases makes the problem worse.
@@ashleythomas9671 Are things always complicated, though? As far as I know the scientific evidence says the speed of light is the limit for the universe. What counts as complicated, moreover, complicated is an incredibly broad category, so even if we know something is indeed so, it doesn't help that much to nail down who is right.
Not when it comes to Islam, it is a pure evil ideology.
@@victorrosenheart8036 No, it's more like the Henry G. Bohn saying: "Hell is paved with good intentions."
Ultimately I see religion as a tool that humans have come up with over time to organize social orders more easily and to rationalize the world. Ultimately that is all it is, that is a tool. This tool can be used for good, or for bad. It is ultimately the choice of the individual as to how they use this tool, how they interpret what they hear and what they preach. I realized this some time ago. My accepting many different religions is due to that. Labels are simply labels, and the nuances in the adherence to the philosophies under those labels are all up to the individual.
Same for me
i see religion as mankind saying "i can't be here for no reason.. im SPECIAL !". mostly because of fear of death.
@@qr-eh9es Pretty much. I view religion as self-centered. Why on earth would some god actually care if you dress a certain way, if he did exist? Does he not have better things to do that to write down random things as sinful and watch with glee as people see through his bullshit so he can send them to hell for no reason? You're not special. Love whoever you want. Dress however. Live however so long as it harms no one. Because there's no one watching you. There are 8 billion other people that live on this planet with you right now. No one cares about you eating beef but other humans.
i want to know what the TRUTH is tho do we just get the scientific hell of oblivion or we reincarnate or what happens?
@@Victor_Graves POINT.
let me correct you about something as someone who lives in an islamic country as a woman and an atheist: The most harm islam inflects is on women and people who disowned the religion and are now in constant fear of being killed.
1. The Qur'an's basic stance is that Muslim women are first and foremost Muslims, the religious equals of men (e.g., Q. 33:73). It refers to women and men as one another's “protectors.” (Q. 9:71)
If we assume 4:34 gives husbands the authority to beat their wives, then such an understanding creates numerous contradictions to many other verses. For instance, the Quran condemns aggression and never permits believers to be aggressors.
[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
The Quran condemns oppression, calling it worst than murder.
[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque (Masjid), unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
The Quran condemns force and compulsion.
[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
The Quran condemns injustice.
[5:8] O you who believe, you shall be absolutely equitable, and observe GOD, when you serve as witnesses. Do not be provoked by your conflicts with some people into committing injustice. You shall be absolutely equitable, for it is more righteous. You shall observe GOD. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
The only time the Quran permits force is in self-defense or to eliminate oppression, and even then, the retaliation can only be proportional to the affliction. So unless the wife physically attacks the husband, the husband cannot utilize force to neutralize the situation.
[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
But even when a retaliatory force is justified, God still advocates for patience.
[42:40] Although the just requital for an injustice is an equivalent retribution, those who pardon and maintain righteousness are rewarded by GOD. He does not love the unjust.
42:41] Certainly, those who stand up for their rights, when injustice befalls them, are not committing any error.
42:42] The wrong ones are those who treat the people unjustly, and resort to aggression without provocation. These have incurred a painful retribution.
16:126] And if you punish, you shall inflict an equivalent punishment. But if you resort to patience (instead of revenge), it would be better for the patient ones.
The Quran warns that our spouses and children can be our enemies, and it is best to pardon, forget, and forgive even when we were wronged for the sake of maintaining peace.
[64:14] O you who believe, your spouses and your children can be your enemies; beware. If you pardon, forget, and forgive, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
In the immediate next verse after the verse about wife beating, the Quran informs believers that if things are getting out of hand, to have arbitrators from both the couple’s family help settle the dispute.
[4:35] If a couple fears separation, you shall appoint an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family; if they decide to reconcile, GOD will help them get together. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.
Additionally, the Quran in 4:128 gives advice to the wife that if she is sensing rebellion or oppression, “nushūzan” ( نُشُوزًا ), from her husband, which is the same word used in 4:34 for the husband towards the wife that it is best to reconcile.
[4:128] If a woman senses oppression or desertion from her husband, the couple shall try to reconcile their differences, for conciliation is best for them. Selfishness is a human trait, and if you do good and lead a righteous life, GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
Based on these reasons, we can conclude that the Quran prohibits a husband from ever aggressing upon their wife except in the case of self-defense, and even then, God still advocates for patience and forgiveness.
There is litarly more but it wiuld be to long of a comment
Thats i a country where they dont even follow the rules of islam
@@doyouknowtheway8308you say that yet also we see so many stories, videos of Islamic priests (I'm unsure of the proper term), and laws and news articles that say the exact opposite with the Quran or Hadith as the basis. Yet any criticism of such gets labeled as the west forcing it's beliefs or that we're bigots. So there's either very few actual muslims who only exist to dismiss to UA-cam comments about their experiences. Y'all need to actually criticize what your religion is doing to others rather than throw your hands up and dismiss these accusations because nothing will improve until you do.
@@doyouknowtheway8308you just pointed the contradiction yourself. Why follow the other but not the first? If it says you can hit your wife, then it's not haram, full stop, period.
And no the are no equal in islam, i don't know if you are arab as well, but there is no equality not even close, woman are sub human in this religion and in quran.
But the most important part that alot fail to notice is, Quran is made and addressed to men and men only, in english it might be gender neutral (idk i didn't read it in english) but in arabic it adress men only, and when it mentions women, it only mentions how to deal with her and how to treat them or blah blah. Is this not enough to show you that this religion is made by men for men? Or by the very least a misogynistic god?
As a Muslim woman living in a 100% Muslim country this hits deep. The sense of hopelessness I feel knowing I can never be who I truly am. Wearing the hijab everyday feels like I’m slowly tying a noose around my neck and one day it just might suffocate me to death. I am so proud of the ex Muslims who have had the courage to come forward and share these criticisms despite so much threats because it makes me feel less alone
Feiner Fug we study English almost as a first language
I pity you
Feiner Fug it’s out of necessity, our primary source of income is tourism
I have a question, would you call yourself an 'ex-Muslim' instead? You seem very conflicted, I hope you're okay ❤️❤️
Gg
Can we please get this video (and pretty much all others) as mandatory in religious education and critical thinking in schools?
That is my always wish hope we will in the future
critical thinking!!! LOL as if they actually teach it
@Phillip Jackson Why should religions pay tax? Taxation is theft. You argue no one should be exempt, I argue no one should pay.
Jim Skinner taxation isn’t theft, it’s forced spending. How do you think public services are funded?
The people who run this world don't want a populace that thinks critically and rejects false claims.
I go back to this video every now and then to help clear my head of doubt. I'm an immigrant from a country that uses sharia law, and it deeply hurts to see my home country's leaders denounce its own people, including me, for intrinsic qualities we can't change. thank you so much for how thoroughly you made sure to cut into the ways in which people will use islam as a shield or justification for hurting their own neighbors, friends, and family.
Lmfaooo, are you ok in head? There is literally no country that implements al-sharia
D, irty liar
I’m half Buddhist-Islam (quite common here in SEAsia)
I’m enthusiastic about Islam ideology by watching my relatives praying and listening to the beautiful azzan since I was a kid.
I learned and learned more about this religion of peace…and disappointing.
It’s more about a power and satisfaction of one guy named Muhammad.
It’s should be about “God Peace and Love”.
But this religion is not that kind.
This is one of the best videos on having a honest conversation on Islam that I have ever seen. It is very fair and balanced. Thank you very much!
As a modern day Muslim, this had me thinking. Thank you for your insights as I myself don't quite know how to handle this evolving social thinking.
Well? It's been months. I'm interested to see how you handled this evolving social thinking
I too am curious as too where you are on your intellectual journey.
you're not a Muslim, here's why (coming from a guy who was born in a Muslim family and a Muslim country):
1-The word "Muslim" has a pattern in Arabic like "mushrik", they all rhyme on the word "mofél". Which basically describes someone doing something, "Mushrik" is someone who does shirk, "Muslim" come from the word "salama=سَلَمَ" which means "To surrender". Muslim means someone who has surrendered *To Allah.
2- the consensus is that the word "surrender" in all languages basically means to leave your fate to someone else, to let them decide, or simply to submit to someone.
3- So a Muslim must be submitted to Allah, if he is not submitted to Allah, he is not a Muslim. Now, to be submitted you have to listen to everything Allah says and do them and not falter. Quran is claimed to be the word of Allah, therefore Muslims must do everything Quran tells them or else they're not Muslims(because a Muslim as i said needs to be surrendered and submitted to Allah)
NOTE: You do not do everything the Quran says nor does your country, therefore you're not submitted and surrendered, therefore you are not a Muslim. Because remember a Muslim is a person who has submitted. For example, i asked people what do you do if you caught someone who stole something from you, most answered, give them to the police or just let them go... But a Muslim answer should not be this. A person who had surrendered to Allah should say, Allah commands me to cut off their hands regardless of whether they are female or male. But no one would say something like that, not even you i assume.
4- because your moralities and your country's laws hinder you to take such religious actions such as cutting thieves hands off or crucifiing or cutting one arm and one leg from opposite sides of people who committed corruption in land(which can include people who criticize Islam), you are not a Muslim. You are not surrendered to Allah.
Conclusion:
A: you're either a Muslim who follows Quran and the word of Allah word by word and you end up a terrorist
B: you are hypocrite who believes he's a Muslim (a person who has submitted and surrendered to Allah), but you actually are not a Muslim
Note: Assuming like the other so called Muslims you haven't read the Quran, here's quotation for things i have mentioned:
1-
"As for the thief, both male and female cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is mighty, wise." 5:38
2- "Because of that, we decreed upon the children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption done in the land it is as if he he had killed all mankind. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, even after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive upon earth to cause corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the hereafter is a great punishment." 5:32, 5:33
not to mention how this verse is unimaginably misquoted and used as a propaganda machine for islam,
" 'wage war' means oppose, criticize and disbelieve not only an actual war"
-ibn kathir 5:33
it means anyone who criticize or disbelieve must get that punishment,
"corruption/mischief also means various evil doings against Islamic law" -ibn kathir 5:33
that means apostasy, criticism of islam, disbelief, homosexuality, adultery, immorality etc must be punished like tha. also when the Quran says we said to the Israelites the same thing, because Allah claims to be the god of Jews then we expect to see the same thing in Jewish scripture but there's nothing like that. we can only find SOMETHING LIKE IT(NOT QUITE IT) in the Talmud 27-31, Talmud is not a book from god though, it was the work of some Jewish rabies for interpretation and understanding and Quran stole it.
@@XnonTheGod funny enough I'm borned in a Muslim family and in a Muslim country
@@XnonTheGod thanks for the insight though I don't know if you've even read about all the different shariah that's available, I'm from Malaysia so technically from what you said that Malaysian Muslims are mostly hypocrites? And not actually a true Muslim?
Thank you for being critical of all religions. What I usually see is children with neon green hair screeching about the evils of christianity but conveniently ignoring the flaws of Islam for fear of being labelled "islamophobic" or some other garbage.
No one is immune to critisism and "accept my beliefs" and "bigotry" isn't an excuse at all.
Yeah, that's because islam is basically an arab-supremacist religion, so it also often gets used a right-wing dogwhistle for middle-easterns. Those kids want tolerance but they don't know they are ironically protecting intolerance in this case, while right-wingers/regressives/conservatives want intolerance, and ironically partially defend tolerance in this case, but also islamists are the right-wing of their own countries, so they tend to have actually good relations with pro-authoritarian right-wing politicians.
So true! The kids at my high school HATE Christianity and openly mock it yet are so prim and respectful when it comes to any other religion.
It’s kind of bananas, actually. I think the best part are the people who act all respectful towards Mormons, completely unaware they they’re almost identical to other Christian denominations, and in fact are more aligned with the things they criticize about Christianity (ie. homophobia, dress standards, sabbath, etc.) than most others lol.
People really oughta have their own thoughts every once in a while, eh?
@@motivationallizard9934 i think it has to do with how alien something is for them. of course they will know christianity better and first hand, and therefore be more aware of it's flaws. not justifying their bad judgement in "sparing" other harmful beliefs from questioning, but it's understandable specially while in school.
Nothing separates people more than religion, i'm glad i came to this conclusion while being young, a lot of mental walls fall down as soon as you free yourself.
what about politics, or other ideas and beliefs we hold outside of religion? everything that sprouted out of religion is human. even without religion we'd have separation. it is hard to say if religion contributes to it in a large way, but it wouldn't matter because from my viewpoint the concept of religions is an inevitability. it's a collective that comes together to cherish one or multiple ideas, coming together under one thing. may it be a god or a flag. even if all cherish one single idea they all will eventually develop their own variations of this idea, and with that separation starts. i am not the largest fan of religions. very few intrigue me and most got my dislike thanks to actions of the past and present, but no matter how much i may dislike them i still see most issues more as a side effect of being human rather than the cause of religion. (if what i said is hard to read that's because i'm not a native english speaker on top of this being somewhat of a rant? so clear writing might suffer a bit)
@@Gendor64 @Gendor 64 You're not wrong on the fact that people tend to get divided eventually on pretty much any topic yes. Even some ideologies may evolve to be worshipped/practiced as a religion.
I guess i had to go through a phase of self realization where I compared my imposed religious beliefs with other's to eventually just conclude is all man made.
The thing in my opinion that makes religion worse is that most beliefs are from a "Divine" command that must be followed without much space from interpretation.
The government at least in free countries is supposed to be ran by the people's opinion on who should hold power at the time.
"Nothing separates more" is definitely a wrong statement on my part, we could have a whole discussion about what separates humans the most, be it religion in the past or just ideologies.
Terra Nova that definitely makes a lot more sense and probably holds true a lot more. yet the reality is even free countries can be a double edged sword. i mean, people didn't storm the capitol out of joy and cheerfulness. yet i do agree that the commands of a "divine" being that never sits in true contact with us is rather problematic. at least with a president we know what they are on about. but let's say god is real, what would he truly want from us? because most people will probably cherry pick an answer from the bible or come up with some conversation they had with god that probably fits their own world view. hell, how are we even supposed to know which of the gods would be real? there probably are hundreds of divine higher ups that came before and/or almost alongside the christian god. that's what made me even more doubtful about the religious ideas and made me look at them more from the standpoint of a tool that's meant to hold the masses in place. basically politics but now with some unquestionable divine being on top that will send you to hell for disobeying. religion was sadly just another piece in the "them vs us" puzzle. and we all know how most view "them". but i still feel the need to point out that once again religion isn't the only contributor, because there always will be people blaming religions on everything and eventually get the atheistic version of "them vs us" and will start viewing theists as some sort of enemy, not realizing they'll feed into the same cycle. somewhere at the roots is the cause of separation, and everything we see is probably just part of the tree that sprouts from it. i see no point attacking a problem surface level, because i've seen where that leads. yet it sometimes can be difficult blaming something we don't exactly know what it looks like. because the root is probably much deeper and complex than looking on the surface and pointing at religions, ideologies or politics. to cut it short here, questioning and being critical of those surface level potential causes is good and even important, but never see one thing as the sole contributor to an issue unless it truly is the only contributor.
i probably reused some stuff i said previously but oh well, that's the nature of rambles i guess.
Politics? Humans will always be divided, its just how we are
Let me ask you a question, how do you objectively prove your morality without God?
this is the first time i have seen a neutral english description of what basic "racism" is
as a german i need to thank you
you can´t imagine how much that means to me
Extremely thoughtful, well organized, calmly paced, and well spoken. I have avoided thinking about Islam for a long time. This made me think. 🤔
This is the best Islam debunk video I have ever seen. Mostly Islam debunk videos focus on revealing the absurdity of Quran and divisiveness of Muslims' hypocrisy. It's so rare to see a person going from Islam sympathetic to fully recognize the true face of Islam on a personal experience.
I dont think this is a "debunking" video about islam. I think this is more about trying to say that we should see muslims are human, a person, not as a religion. Since interpretation of islam itself is incredibly vast and varied. Western societies shouldnt treat them as fragile and need to be protected. But also criticized just like any other human being.
This isnt "Islam debunked". This is Muslims are people and can make mistakes even though theyre religion is a religion of peace.
Did you watch the video?
@@Moody.Smiruai oh, the video clearly conveys that Islam is opposite of being a religion of peace. Did you watch the video?
I myself am an atheist hiding in pakistan under the guise of a devout practicing muslim. I can tell you that all these points brought up are 100% true. No matter what happens do not stop criticizing islam. It is due to the resistance against it that alot more critical thinkers and true humanitarian citizens are being brought up, even if it is like me in secrecy. If more scrutiny is put upon the religion then perhaps in my own lifetime i just may be able to openly declare being an atheist rather than living in fear and hiding.
Persevere my friend. I hope people wisen up soon.
affannemat , You must see the videos of Apostate Prophet on You Tube. He is most practical in his criticism of Islam.
Ill take a look. Thank you for the suggestion.
It appears his channels not there. Theres a very recent video talking about the channels end.
affannemat , if you give search Apostate Prophet on UA-cam, you will find it and you will love his videos.
this somewhat enlightened me, and i think i also am too protective of a system of beliefs i did not dare scrutinize enough in fear of being racists
Labels. They're meaningless. What defines someone as racist, sexist etc. It's all hollow talk used to scare the weak. Toughen up.
Same, which is funny still cause I was previously in the other extreme.
Hopefully you don't end up like Ash though
@@ashholiday123 ok that's rather smart.
Thanks for typing this.
@@ashholiday123 Thanks, I'll just be racist, sexist and homophobic now!
@@ashholiday123 I mean racism and sexism have a definition.
As a ex Muslim Turkish girl I'm so glad to find your channel . I had these questions in my mind that I couldn't really answer properly but when I found you , you talked about it so well that I finally feel comfortable and confident while talking about these things and turkey is actually getting worse nowadays so I started to despise religion more and started to feel more fear than ever for my future in Turkey . right now because of the party that won the election we're going through many bad changes in the social structure and people are just basically allowed to do whatever they want to women and they can get away with it because our president doesn't really believe that there's such thing as abuse against women and being the way I am I'm very scared for the future I'm just thinking when are we going to lose our right to exist as humans as woman and it slowly happening I can see it religion is being weaponized against people because the people who won the election are the people who's been using and abusing religion so overtime I started to feel disgusted of this religion and there is a resentment that I still couldn't get over it and I don't think I can in this situations anyway I'm a woman and you are very right on the fact that women are very badly abused and people use religion as an excuse for these kind of ideologies and because of the people I can't be a part of this type of religion and I always been a suspicious person always been questioning things always try to make sense of things and you know even if we weren't abused this way I still would probably be an atheist watching your videos I find deep relief feels like I'm going to therapy that I can't afford right now . Thank you for that
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg
Amazing clarity no one could call you an islamaphobe we need to follow this strategy for showing the bad ideas of islam
Some people on reddit did
@@jadgbanzer9246 reddit lol that place is a shitfest
We need to use this strategy with every ideology it’s not like only one way of thinking is the right way
What kind of bad ideas exist in islam? And what criteria should we use to determine whether something is bad or not?
Sure, but your intent seems questionable. There's actual good Islamic people, no need to generalize a whole bunch to argue against
“Religion of peace” yes we’ll be very peaceful, as long as you _obey!_
dude! That was so original and offensive dont you think!?
@DistriktA dude you have your belief and I have mine like it says in the Quran stop being fucking minions grow the fuck up shut the fuck up and just accept that people believe in Islam and I’ll accept that you dont
@DistriktA haha 1 exttimist boom people = everyone that follows that faith booms people that’s basically what you’re sayin gm
@DistriktA ofcourse you will say not quite what did I expect you will ofcourse play the victim card
@DistriktA bro ikr im a terrorist and im the victim now good one!
Beautiful! You've described my feelings as an ex-Muslim perfectly!
How many rakats in wudhu
@@Sotha_Sil how many slaves in Momo's harem?
@@amandadarkwood535 ''how many rakats in wudhu'' is a frequent question asked by muslims to ex muslims, to prove that you were never muslim, or you do not follow their core ideology of muslims.
they seem to not able to fathom the possibility that someone can leave islam
''leaving islam'' is such a far away thing for them, sadly this really shows the brainwashing
0 theres non also how may slaves did momo have and raped?@@Sotha_Sil
16:48
Such a sweet sentiment. I've heard people who say they believed what you did and got told off for it, but to hear someone praised for their hope in people is great to hear. I truly do hope everyone who has faith in other humans doesn't get disappointed as well.
17:10 I love this idea of ice breaking. Wouldn't mind doing it sometime.
man, could you imagine how amazing a religion would be that spanned the globe, was 1400 years old and ACTUALLY viewed scientific progress and peace as core principles?
yes you are describing Islam.well done and of course islam confirms the ministry of Moses pbuh and Jesus pbuh so its religion in general wjich includes hinduism and original zoraoastrinism. So yes , religion which has civilised the world and diffrentiated between good and evil. Neo atheism on the other hand is reponsible for enormous blodletting., debauchery and an eroding of morals and ethics.
@@haroonhussein9770 obviusly I'm not describing Islam, or it wouldn't have put a moratorium on science for the last 1000 years.
You may know that in the first 500 years, Islamic areas actually produced the basis of many modern scientific fields.
Imagine if this had continued instead of falling into the ignorance of literalist Islam.
We'd be living on mars right now. Of course we'd have a fuckton of "debauchery" and eroding of "morals" and "ethics", as those are all products of the enlightenment.
(Not actually a product of Islam, even though they laid the foundations.)
Turns out people like you would rather keep living like backwards savages if it means less "debauchery".
@@haroonhussein9770 What a load of bullshit. You sound just like a catholic pastor.
@@Nerobyrne My idea on why it is the case is because science can't explain everything, it needs test to prove anything. While religion can explain anything without the burden of proving. I think a very big part of axiety for humanity is the fear of unknown, and this largely lie in one's future. By choosing science this unknown and uncertainty will never go away. The unknown will only decrease but never cease to exist, more over one realise that he/she is the one responsible for him/herself. In religion this unknown is ereased through giving up thinking. One can surrender oneself to a concept and trust it to guarentee a solution to every uncertainty, including death, our biggest fear.
@@scharlachnachtfalter1900 but religion doesn't explain anything either.
The unkown is still there. In fact, it's going to remain big since religion blocks science.
I wonder if Parinda ever saw this video.
Nope. Parinda died last week. 😢
@@obscured9414 how did you know?
I know this is a year old comment but something I want to point out:
So many fitting stories involving the narrator, exactly matching the points he wanted to make in the video leads me to believe they may be fabricated so Parinda probably doesn't even exist.
@@mihaimera7837 I get that. The thing is though that it's still a video on the internet with an agenda and personal stories are a great way to drive the points home, so it wouldn't be so out of the ordinary for one to make something up or to appropriate parts from a different source.
Parinda sounds like a damn liar if you ask me.
As a muslim this video was very insightful. I got to see a perspective in which i wouldnt get within my community. For that i thank you :)
So much clarity, depth and wisdom here. So glad I discovered this channel.
I remember watching a documentary about the Rushdie affair when I was a student in the UK -- long after the affair had died down. Much of it confirmed what I'd already known. But I was doubly flabbergasted when British Muslims in archival materials in that film expressed anger that British blasphemy laws did not "protect" Islam from "threats" like Rushdie's book.First of all, the very notion that Britain still had blasphemy laws (even as a dead letter) was astounding. But secondly, I thought "Muslims in the UK should call for such laws to be revoked, not extended! After all, these are *Christian* blasphemy laws. By Christian standards, Islam (which denies the divinity of Christ) is itself blasphemous! How on earth do they expect that such laws would work in their favour?". I did suspect an explanation: that there is some sort of temporary coalition between religious zealots of opposing groups, seeking to attack the mutual enemy of religious freedom, which undermined them both. What still mystifies me is secularists who lend support to this coalition, excusing attacks on religious freedoms. Though, after watching this video, I think I have a better understanding of this phenomenon, too.
Unlike the UK, the US has never had a state church, nor a divinely designated noble class whose sensibilities are to be shielded from “profane” scrutiny. We have no House of Lords (Lords Spiritual and Lords Temporal) royally appointed for life, a legislative body which, unlike the US "upper house", the Senate - elected for limited terms to represent the interests in particular geographical districts - represent, instead, the interests of particular classes.
This is why the UK continues to have viable blasphemy and "hate speech" laws, while the US has none - and never has. The First Amendment of the US Constitution secures equally the right of all alike to be offended as to offend - without fear of government retaliation.
@Uri Golomb BTW Thank you for your charming web page. You have one more subscriber.
@@0nlyThis What do you think about the hypothesis that the secular nature of the US constitution has caused the unusually high amount of Christian fundamentalism for a Western nation?
I've heard it from several people such as Dawkins, that the state churches or Vatican connections of European nations has made religion mundane and uninteresting, whereas the separation of church and state has allowed religion to be incorporated, packaged and sold to the American public by any means. It seems rational to me, for example the Church of England is so unassuming and beige that it reduces Christianity to vague concepts of kindness and modesty, whereas in the US megachurches seem to be racing to market with the most literal, fire'n'brimstone interpretation they can.
@@0nlyThis Are you separating out federal laws from states? Because, unlike the UK, individual states in the US _still have_ blasphemy laws, and there used to have far more - remember Salem, where they perfectly legally executed people on religious grounds? It's _still_ against the law for an atheist to hold any public office in eight states. The UK is very secular compared to the US (70% non-religious compared to 40%), and that very much reflects in their laws and habits. Just take all the 'religious liberty' [read: LGBTQ discrimination] laws currently being proposed and passed.
@@0nlyThis I would look twice at how the US is in bed with the Church. It first started when Reagan or Nixon, can't remember which, attended The National Prayer Breakfast. Since then each president has attended. I'm sure you're thinking so what if the church and state want to have breakfast together so be it, but that meetings is a cover up for all the influence from other countries including dictators like Gadafi. I highly recommend watching The Family on Netflix.
This channel helped me to become an atheist about 5 years ago now. For that, I'm forever grateful.
Delighted that the channel has been of help to you. Peace.
I am Wiccan,but this channel and college have had an effect on me.It's taught me to be open minded,but not so open that my brains fall out,as my mom says. I love your outlook.It doesn't condemn so much as scrutinize. I have Muslim friends, and just like yourself,I was blinded by woefullly inadequate evidence. My friends are good people,the religion has some very ugly points,and I admit, Wicca has views I vehemently disagree with. My father passed of cancer on March 23rd of this year...I happen to believe I'll see him again.Wicca says he might be moved on by the time I get there. I'm critical of the idea of reincarnation,yet it doesn't discourage my faith. I've met Wiccans that are as fanatical as they come,and ones I love. Same with a lot of other faiths.I look at the people behind the faith,like yourself.
J Ribs one thing he fails to explain is the atheist world view. If they is no God why should we punish those who do evil. Like what right does one human being have to justify locking up someone for killing another person. In that world view everything is pointless, even justice. He forget the objective morality we all share is a real thing, we know not to steal, kill and lie. If your government does evil to you, as an atheist what ground can you make to demand absolutes. Atheist is a new thing, that’s why our world is so messed up, cause everyone thinks they can do what ever they want without the consequences. Atheist watch two or three videos on UA-cam and haven’t look at history evidence of the world. You can’t understand that the government lies to you and doesn’t want you to believe in Jesus because our government are satanist and witches. You have to do your own research and you’ll quickly find out that the Bible is true. Bible predicted Babylon, the great flood, the coming of Jesus, Alexander the Great, Persian empire, how the world will reject God. So don’t listen to lost people and do your own research. The world doesn’t want you to find God. Atheist might tell you can have a reason for like but God has a purpose for you and he loves you. So take God’s promise on Jesus Christ being your lord and savior and your life will be transformed. The spiritual is real don’t be the fool that believes a lie, believe the evidence the truth. They is only one God Jesus Christ and he’s coming back, no matter what. Or that would make God a liar, so take his promise and find out for yourself. I used to an atheist like you but then I researched and found how wrong I was. How they is a spiritual battle for your soul. Most people will believe a lie.
@MrLILv104
Damn stupid, we lockup people that kill someone because we don't want to BE KILLED ourselves, or our friend, family/etc. !
You god CANNOT be love when he condemn people to torture for ETERNITY !
You were fed a bunch of SJW bullshit.
I’m sitting in the bathroom of a church secretly while watching these videos. Someday maybe I can watch them in the open
I remember I went to a private religious school for most of my elementary school life, which preached Islamic values and studies. It preaches being kind and obedient to god, but the people there were extremely toxic and made me feel depressed and unlovable.
I remember a sheikh there talking about how homosexuality was a major sin, and me being about 9 at the time and not knowing a thing about the subject just believed it blindly. I remember being forced to memorize suras and being told that it was good for me, even though it made me feel fatigued and tired mentally.
I remember being told that me drawing my harmless OCs was sinful because I was drawing faces, which was “satanic.”
I remember being shamed and ridiculed by teachers and my parents for listening to music and wanting to pursue a career in the arts.
I remember my dad calling me the devil himself when he found out that I was lesbian
I remember my mom calling me ungrateful for thinking about transitioning from ftm
There’s so much more that was impacted in my life because of the religion, but I don’t know if I can speak about it here
Thank you for making this video, this impacted me in ways that I’m very grateful for
I fully agree with this video, and I'm stunned by the amount of depth and nuance you've managed to put into it. I only wish more people could see these ideas in the nuanced way they're meant to be seen.
His arguments are based upon Muslim extremists which as a Muslim i disagree with. He doesnt provide any islam factual arguments.
this is one of the most critical and innovative videos i've seen on youtube
i keep seeing islamic people saying "if you're not Muslim, at least respect our religion" and "im sorry, i cant support lgbt, but i can still respect it"
im sorry, i cant respect a religion that sees me as a terrible flaw to society, that says women are subordinates to men, that says men have authority over women bodies, and you cant "respect" lgbt if you dont support it. they are synonyms in this context.
then if i criticise this religion im rude, im mean, im prejudiced. even those that are atheist like me have been blinded into thinking that you HAVE to respect other religions.
another dumb argument is that "oh, its not the religion, its the people!" when i try to talk about the horrors of abuse toward women in Islamic countries, like Iran, for example. the religion IS the people. if the religion makes people act like this, something isn't right. everything can be used for good, but the likeliness of it being used for good and the likeliness of it being used for bad are what matters. islam and christianity are more likely to be used for bad. that is what I've been seeing again and again, and what I've understood. i cant talk for other religions, im not very informed on them, but im sure they're likely the same. someone that has information on other major religions correct me, please.
As an iranian ex-muslim i've heard those phrases way too many times even from people in iran where muslims are the privileged and other beliefs are the minority, it's insane. There are good people who only accept the morally good rules in their religion and i respect them for that but the religion itself is dangerous and as someone who's life has been ruined by religion i can't help but feel betrayed by even the good religious people bc they're giving power to the ideology
@@lamedragon3323 this!!! i’m so sick of people acting like you’re obligated to respect dangerous religions, and if you don’t, at least let other people believe in them. like DUDE THIS IS RUINING LIVES OVER HERE TF U ON ABOUT.
it’s like defending a murderer that donates the bodies they kill to science because they believe people should donate their bodies to science. no i don’t care what their motives are, they are irrelevant.
@@xem_ity yeah honestly the way i and other people have been harmed and traumatized by religion it should be understandable that we keep criticizing it bc it's a real issue. Racism is unacceptable and oppressing religious people who harm no one is unacceptable, but criticizing the belief is necessary.
Iraqi agnostic here. I mourn the fact that Islam destroyed pre Islamic Arabia because pre Islamic Arabia sounded like an actual amazing and cultural place, especially Mesopotamia, Babylon, and Persia.
Yea some things especially regarding women are very disturbing in islam. I just take the good stuff and try to overlook the rest. I hope I find someone with similar beliefs as mine so that we can raise our kids to respect freedom and equality, human rights n womens rights, in other words secular liberal values.
This is a beautiful video. Very good reminder.
I was just thinking to myself about the complex reality that I feel is often overlooked and you clarified and illustrated it very well and with compassion and with strong sense of justice too. But mostly I really learned it’s important to really read what those books say and ask if people know what that means before we just assume something else. It’s important to care for people and our love for each other and to make sure we know what sort of ideas we were fed.
Amazingly well-considered and well-put. Over 40 minutes but every single one of them well-spent. It's definitely made me think.
My hat is off to you. I've also increased my Patreon pledge, since clearly your high-investment videos deserve all the support they can get.
Many thanks!
+Polymeron So true. Last year, I drastically upped my Patreon pledge too. This work is time consuming and Theramin Trees does such a brilliant job. I wish we could get enough pledges to have him focus on this full time. His work is a gift to humanity.
Reason on Faith what's a patron pledge? what's it involve?
Was it really forty minutes? How time flies when you're having fun.