I 100% agree, this game requires about as much time as a D&D campaign. If you are not willing to invest it’s probably a 7.5. If you are willing to make this “your and your groups game” it very likely could climb to a 9 or so.
Really great review and agree with nearly everyone's points. The game is dense and heavy that will feel frustrating if you only play it once in a while. If however you dedicate the time to it, there is a chance Aeons Trespass will be the best campaign game you've ever played. I played it solo with permanent setup and it truly meets all my expectations. I wouldn't play with more than 2 players honestly because of all the decision making and titan losses. I'm starting cycle 3 now and the journey I've been through up to this point is incredible and can't wait to see how it concludes.
To Camilla's point about player elimination, I think many will find that 2 players is where this game shines, with each player piloting 2 titans. This also helps with rules overhead/retention, and simply getting through the thing from a time perspective. A wild gaming experiment. I'm glad it exists.
I’m with you, I think two players would be the spot. Solo is too much upkeep, 4 players causes player elimination and constant vigilance to make sure everyone is grasping the rules.
Most of this style of game where the player unit count is set at a fixed number work best with 1 or 2 less players than the total number of units. 2-3 Player always has been the optimal group size for boss battlers with long campaigns.
Played this three times now at 4p count at around 10+ hours. As they said, combat is lucky, frustrating, and brutal as well as repetitive - Hekaton 3x, Minotaur-thing 2x. A typical turn is try to reach the enemy, try to hit the enemy, then try to wound the enemy, fail more often than not. And if you fail, the enemy often pounds you across the arena. Sometimes even when you HIT them, you still get countered and knocked around. So many turns where I got knocked down or knocked back so far that I literally could do nothing but stand up or move towards them and that was it. Wait for 10 minutes for my next turn, rinse and repeat. Nothing like spending an hour blocked by maze Tetris pieces, getting to attack twice and never landing a single blow. I didn't find the exploration to be satisfying either. The story and world is unique and well-written to be fair, but an exploration phase is check off box, move to new tile, might be something there, might not. Draw a few rando cards to see what weird materials you get, lose some more reputation (so many of the choices are 'bad or worse' and the rewards make no sense), maybe get some weird mnenos card that may or may not randomly level up. The tech tree is (too) massive but largely invisible and clunky and only slightly interesting so far. The whole thing is so much randomness between dice rolls and card draws and if I have to play any game for 20+ hours before it might get good, not for me, sorry. Trying to figure out the best way to break it to my buddy who bought the darned thing that I'm out.
Absolutely disagree. The battles are laegely a skill game. Yes theres rng from the dice, but you can indeed get good and destroy the primordials at early levels if you know what youre doing.
It's a low luck game if you use some brain. Have the right gear and tactics, almost auto win. Have neither, yea I can see that you need to win the lotto Yea there a lot of down time if you played at 4 players. Worse if you die or using the wrong strategy. Most battles isnt run up and swing. people play this solo or at 2 players. There isn't much to exploration 10 hours in, but it does grow over time
This game has some of the biggest moments (highs and lows) of any game I have ever played. You really feel, especially at the start, that you are embarking on an odyssey and that all odds are against you. The brilliance of the combat system is that every battle feels epic and important. You will win battles that you never thought possible, and lose battles disastrously. It is all part of the epic story that unfolds before you as you play the game. It is a different type of game; you just have to be willing to strap in and go along for the ride. Yes, it is extremely complicated (and I agree, to some extent needlessly). But Tom is right: with the investment, there is a massive payoff. I will say that I play this solo, and it is great solo. The thought of finding anyone else committed enough to go through the whole journey with me is laughable. It is just too much. So I get why Camila and others might not want to invest the time. But I think it is fairer to recognize that while this may not be a game with mass appeal, it is probably the best campaign boss battler out there, and given the competition in that space (KDM and Oathsworn, I’m looking at you) that it saying something.
I think it's the kind of game you'll play solo. It feels like a solo RPG tabletop game from what I saw about it and it's why I'm looking for a late pledge (I will have to find a way to extend my table). I don't see myself introducing this kind of game to my friend as I did with Gloomhaven or too many bones. It's a big commitment and I think it's why on bgg the top player rating is 1 and 2 players. But amazing from what I saw and I need to try the tabletop simulator demo before deciding if I late pledge or not.
One thing worth adding: the game is best at 1-2 players. As Tom suggested, it really shines solo, and the overhead of playing four Titans is not too much. Four is a definite no-no. And three is doable, but pushing your luck with player elimination. Would love to see a Mike solo review of this one (or a look back from Tom in a year if he does play it solo). Also love imagining a Zee review of this game because he would absolutely hate it, and would be hilarious telling us how much he hates it!😂
ok, i'm into this game - gonna back it! SIDE NOTE: i have My Fathers Work also. and i've played it. multiple times. *WHY ON EARTH* does everyone say it has 'a lot of text'?!? there is, like maybe, 3-4 paragraphs between each stage of life and each generation. it's NO WHERE near a novel!! i'm just disappointed they didnt have voice acting for ALL of it - just at the beginning of the generation...
@@Rodfather_Prime I've not even considering ATO. I expect Twelve Sins to be far less because that's been their style for 2 games; KS original is the best price and it slowly increases during the PM, so that's the one I'll be watching.
Something that wasn't mentioned here was how the player choices drive the story and have huge impact on how this plays out. comparisons with Oathsworn don't really do either game justice. My Oathsworn experiance is the story is on rails, and no matter what choice i make I still fight the same monster at the same time, just with a different variation of tokens. ATO Im getting chased and don't want to get caught, or have my prized titan dispatched, I worry about what territory im in depending if im friends or enemies with that faction, what would have happened if i was nice to that last NPC, - its not just a different token, its a whole different story arc that changes on your decision here. Definitely a commitment time wise, but for me the story is very addictive, just like a great book.
I can see their points, but at the same time even in cycle 1 the whole story and fighting and your control about the fights changes (you can increase hit probabilities a lot with new gear and you need to play a bit with the triskelion parameters) a lot. Also the primordials change a lot with higher level. (e.g. in the first fights with the Hekaton you would prevent to stand in front of columns, but later on they can prevent you from thrown from the cliff and you can easily stand up with new gear). The story is great (and I don't perceive the story parts as that long) and gives you more space for strategic decisions (in Oathsworn you only get tokens here and there or get wounded or so on) Oathsworn is also fun and much more accessible, but ATO, once you are hooked, gives you so much more (as Tom said, he thought about it all the time). I finished Cycle 1 solo and will now start cycle 2 with some friends.
Don't get me wrong, the game is really good but I don't think its a good idea to introduce your friends into this massive game straight into cycle 2. They're gonna get crushed not only in battle phase (the primordials act completely different than those found in cycle 1) but also in the voyage/adventure phase (the map is a lot more brutal than that of cycle 1).
@@renzchua6331 I would say that my friends would be underwhelmed with the first 20 days of cycle 1. They learn fast and they are good in tactic and strategy
Oh boy, getting your friends to start in cycle 2. I also learn games fast and i've played countless of tactics and strategy games on the hardest dificulty. Cycle 1 is like a tutorial for cycle 2, and they will probably have a mizerable time unless you play for them for the first 20-40 days, and that's something i would also consider quite unfun.
Would never have figured in a million years that this will become a DT review. We are playing through this campaign ourselves, this is our only current campaign game we have, playing it max every 2 weeks for over 3 months now. Great fun, though the limitations and caveats (for lack of a better word ;) ) that you mention I agree almost 100% with. Also, spoiler: this is way more than 100 hours per campaign. Unless you skip reading and speed through without thinking... insane amount of content in here.
I was waiting for it because I recall a while back that Tom was excited about this game but then I didn't hear a peep after it delivered and began to wonder if I hallucinated it XD
Player elimination was actually what killed it for me for backing the first campaign; I saw that and said no way do I want to spring a "you are dead" draw on the group. It was interesting to hear that at least 2 of you were willing to house rule away this outcome. I'm keep coming back to considering backing it in the reprint though.
after some time you know what cards every primordial has so you can count what cards already came out so you know how much damage you have to do statistically on the next card
I think Oathsworn will take people away from this game but I do think this is overall better, despite the length. I don't think it's better than Kingdom Death only in that KDM has the most unique flavor out of pretty much any board game space and has the modeling aspect to it so I don't lump them in the same category really.
04:55 Well, actually... they are reasonably well hidden if you're not looking for them, but they do exist (and they're not common, to be fair). A bit of a shame about the focus on luck mitigation, as you get so many more tools available, but I can understand how the very lack of those tools early (and isn't that a thing, to call "20 hours in" as "early", hah) has an impact, as well. Overall, I think this was a great review considering the inherent limitations. I do agree that this is a game which by its very nature will only be appreciated by people that already favor large campaign games and/or boss battlers. Well rated within its niche, but just not something that -can- be really appreciated by the larger portion of the gaming public, and that's completely okay. There are numerous games I wouldn't give a second look at, which occupy the Top 100 list, or are generally loved by the broader community. We all have our own preferences, and I am pleasantly surprised to see this game rated as well as it was here. I can definitely understand the (ever-increasing) depth of mechanics making this difficult to inconsistently table, but I liked how much the three of you appreciated the story provided.
Hekaton means 100. In Hellenic Mythology there was these monsters called Ἑκατόγχειρες Hecatoncheires which means Hundredhands. They discarded the hands part. I am Greek or Hellene. The country is called Hellas and not Greece some of us prefer this word and rebel others think its to nationalistic to try and make it pollitical corect so they dont care and leave it as it is. Just some info for anyone out there. Have a nice day.
for that game you need to get a good group of consistent players together and say we play nothing else until we finish this campaign, only way I could ever buy or play that
Just as a side note - I think if you are only 6 fights deep you are still a bit too early in the campaign to correctly assess the level of luck mitigation you can get later. It's true there's not much at first but later with good weaponry to choose from - you easily get 5 to 7 tokens in Kratos pool during attacks.
@@VaultBoy13 it isn’t buried 20-30 hours in. You start with mitigation abilities from the very beginning. But you are meant to lose some fights at the beginning. That turns a lot of people off, but that is what makes the epic struggle in the game so great. It is a hard game, and success is earned.
Is the quality of the story writing different than the writing on the body part cards? I watched a playthrough with the Hecaton and thought the names of the Hecaton's attacks and the descriptions/lore on the body part cards was very childish.
Yes, the quality of the story telling is exceptional. I always look forward to peeling back more layers from the story. The BP cards definitely take a cue from KDM and inject a tiny bit of humor into the otherwise macabre theme of lopping off body parts.
Great Review by Tom. He is able to rate a game based on its target audience and the design the creators intended. I wouldn’t rate a party game and then say, I don’t enjoy party games because I do not hold parties…or like light games in general…
Jup just saying i don´t have time to play such games and that´s why i can not fully dive into it and then giving it sh** review scores because of that fact is very sad in my opinion.
I own both games Oathsworn and Aeon Trespass. Sorry but i can not understand why people would say i like Oathsworn more..... Aeon Trespass is definitely better if you find the time to play it and even if you do not have so much time it would be worth to invest time into this game. Oathsworn = like some reviewers mentioned. Good Story but only decisions with no consequences you only get different tokens for your next fight. Aeon Trespass = on the other hand this really gives you choices that influence your game now and onwards even through other cycles. That´s a HUGE difference in my opinion. And sorry rating a game like this before you even got a nymh is too early (i guess i got one after 5-6 hours in one of my campaigns.). I had my first nymph very soon in my campaign, and most of my early fights with monsters where really fair. Seems like we played different games..... I can definitely understand the point with setup and bookkeeping. Some people already said this in the past about KDM. I hoped for better scores for this game, but it seems like all of you three just don´t have the time for such a game anymore.
I missed some things like finding the hidden runes for the secret story paragraphs and such things. Explaining how important ship management is while you move around. Explaining the impact of choices for your gear, future stories, your ship and so on..... Explaining that you get bonusses if you lose a campaign and that you can get better chances next time. Explaining that there a quick start rules for the following campaigns, if you want to play one of the campaigns again without playing the one before. ..... What i want to say with this is that there is much more to the game that was not mentioned and i don´t know if you have thrown all of that things into your score or if you just said: "Okay i have invested enough time now, i will just rate it based on what i experienced and not on what the game has to offer in total."
My favourite game I own. I think this is a game to play solo or with one other person, probably a best friend or partner. It’s an amazing game … KDM is just nowhere near as much fun. I own KDM so not just throwing mud. But as said in the review it is a table hog and it is a real time sync…. 2 things I love. If ATO is for you then You already own it or follow the next kickstarter. If your favourite game is 30-45 mins then this is not for you …. Probably And if your a painter it’s worth it just for the minis they are superb
@Patrick White I have ATO and KDM. I love both. I would sell ATO after I finish all 5 cycles. I’ll never sell KDM. While the story of ATO is awesome, after I’m done, I don’t think there is reason to go back. But the emergent story-telling of KDM means every time I go back, there is something different happening. Also, I think GCE and CoD will extend the life of the game even further.
@Patrick White I still love KDM but have checked out of it due to the extortionate prices of the expansions and the lack of any available new content. I’d never sell it though as it’s a great game. ATO seems to be better supported and has a roadmap that seems to be delivering. KF is looking good as well. If Mr Poots could just stop focusing on individual models and actually create products I’d have all of it. I decided to skip on the expansions last time round because I’m just not sure he will ever deliver them 😆 Should add I’m in the UK and nothing is ever in stock on kdm website
It looks like the kind of game where complexity lies inside the rulebook, instead of the gameplay itself. For me, that is the worse one. Feels like a "hard to learn, easy to master" game...
Not true. Hard to learn and hard to master. Combat is fun and theres def a skill gap to learning how to handle each primordial at different levels. Once you "figure out" the ai decks adn targeting rules, youll start to catch on to best positioning, which gear to use, using distance as an advantage, when to attack to force an ai deck shuffle, when is it a good idea to escalate the deck versus when its best to wait, should i try and hit this upcoming bp card? Should i hit this bp card knowing it will be a miss but this specific titan will leave the appropriate amount of opening or break tokens in the kratos pool greatly increasing the chance of causing a wound. Should i pass on this titans turn to increase the rage on my other titan to swap who controls the priority target token? Should i forego a few attacks to get inside a city to increae my evasion? Theres a smorgasbord of things to do and thats early on. Just wait till you get a bunch of gear and fight nastier beasties. THEN the gake really opens up!
Definitely an homage to KDM (I mean look at that white box!😂). But think multi-branching scripted story instead of the mostly emergent story-telling of KDM. Also, the escalation system in the combat is very different from KDM. I love how it makes every battle crescendo into these intense make-or-break moments, but it also adds a lot of complexity that leaves KDM’s combat system feeling very smooth and simple by comparison (though no less brutal!).
Oh man, a SFW clone of kingdom death monster with a better dress. One main issue which they didn't cover (because they couldent in 12 h play) is the strain of rinse and repeat of the campaign. If you fail and lose your titans, if you play by the book, you have to start over. Come back and tell if the same boss battle is still fun after 15-20 times. Hard pass.
Your titans are expendable, you have quite a bit of them in stock so losing through titan loss isn't as common as you are making it out to be. Campaign loss can still happen yes but repeating the cycle is still fun because you are not stuck reading the same passage again plus the fights are still fun. This is coming from a guy who spent 150+ hours (fighting the same set of primordials 10-15 times each) in playing cycle 1 twice, one solo and one in a group.
@@renzchua6331 How is the game solo? I am debating if I should solo it or play with my wife, but we have SO many campaign games to get through(frost haven, oathsworn, etc) that I feel like this one may be better solo. I also got all 5 cycles...
@@botousai As long as you have an organizational solution, whether it be a DIY or just plain leaving it out on the table, to this behemoth of a game, everything should work out fine. Gameplay is smooth once you get the hang of it though it is recommended to continuously play it so you don't forget the rules nor the story.
It's starting to reach the point where you guys should consider finding some US based reviewers who are slower in their review cycle because they play through these campaign games at least once. It's clear that the group you brought with your here Tom are not the target audience and also none of you have the time to review even just the first cycle of a game like this.
@@thedicetower I think the critique is still valid though, and is probably a growing frustration of many watchers of review channels due to the race to get a review out first. We saw with Timestories (which could have also been released in one big campaign box) how an awful ending spoiled the entire experience and brought your rating for the series down considerably. The question is; how useful is experience of 10-30% of an entertainment product? You could say who may find a movie interesting after watching the first 20minutes, but could you really rate the movie as a whole? Tricky.
One thing I love about this: yes its a big box, but EVERYTHING is in that box. No 14 boxes of extra minis and expansions, you said its less compact then Oathsworn, but if you have the minis for that game it is almost 3 times the size of this game.
Okay, that burgundy d6 in the shelf display HAS TO GO! The 4 and 3 are not adjacent, they are opposite! You have to know this (and I'm likely not the first to mention it, but I have yet to see it). It bugs me every time I see a video on this set. 😢
@@duduthedruid1835 Not really. It's a niche. Even among boardgamers. Actually, it's probably not even a game that is for every person who enjoys campaign board games. And that's fine. Choices are good.
@@aimajica what are you talking about? this game is compared to Kingdom death monster which broke a record in the kickstarter and is one of the most succesful to this day, this is nowhere niche as you think, this are the type of games that are making money, and gathering positive reviews, this is what board games are today. sure people may not like it, but the popularity of this big campaign games speak otherwise
@@ezunino1711 I'm not saying it's not a (relative) KS success. It's not a negative statement, it's just reality. Games that are mostly only available through KS are niche. Only 8000 persons WORLDWIDE backed "Aeon Trespass: Odyssey", and not many more will have an occasion to play it. And that's, more or less, the same people who backed other big campaign games like KDM. That's the initial "raison d'être" of the KS system by the way: a way to produce games that are so big, expensive and "niche", that they wouldn't be able to be sold to enough people on retail to become profitable. On retail, selling only 8000 copies of a game is considered a failure. Most retail games sell 10k to 50k copies. Sell more, and you have a successful game in your hand. Only a chunk of hobby gamers buy games through crowdfunding (I don't judge, I do it too! ;) ), and yes, people who like the types of games you find on KS will throw a lot of money at them (a lot and directly, so those games are profitable enough for their creators). But casual gamers (the huge majority) will never even think about paying that much money for a game, and spending that much time on only one big campaign game. 8000 people compared to the number of people who will play a mildly successful retail game (as I said between 10k and 50k copies for most "doing ok" games) are not many. And I'm not even talking about the big retail games: how many more people will play games like Ticket to Ride, 7 Wonders, Splendor, Carcassonne, Kingdomino... at least once in their life? Yes, KS Campaign games are niche, and Aeon's Trespass seems to be even more demanding than most. Not saying it's a bad one though.
This is one of the greatest games of all time and has a 9.3, yes 9.3 on BGG and these guys give it a 6-8 rating, LOL. Says a lot about their intellectual depth to handle heavy board games.
Kinda backwards here. Did you watch to see if they could guess the BGG rating? Or to see their review? 9.3 is an average that includes lots of 6's, 7's, and 8's.
@@fpoggesi “kinda backwards”?? Very few games have a rating over 9, and many great games are in the 8s, and yes, I understand the notion of an average, but enough people though this game was so great that they gave it a 10. Also, a materially low number of poor ratings indicating, statistically, that this is highly well-received by the community. You may not like it, which is fine, but I think that it is a brilliant game.
@@Deltium5683 Yes it is backwards. You said that their reviews were different than the BGG score so they were dumb ("...says a lot about their intellectual depth..."). That only makes sense if you think the Dice Tower review is Dice Tower trying to guess the BGG score. That's backwards. You watch reviews to see their reaction to the game, and they give a review. BGG adds up reviews from lots of people to come up with their score. I'm not doubting you liked the game. I'm saying that other people are allowed to not like it. And not liking your favorite game doesn't make them idiots.
@@fpoggesi perhaps you can show me a truly heavy game that these guys understood and reviewed properly; my issue is that this group is not a heavy board gaming group, and it would be like me reviewing a concert pianist and not knowing more than a few notes on the piano itself. In other words, they are not credible as they don’t understand the nuances nor appreciate the wonderful complexity.
@@Deltium5683 Not impressed with the gatekeeping going on in your comment. People are allowed to have opinions. These guys are professional game reviewers and it sounds like they played a large fraction of a working week on this game--their opinions are informed and valid. The concert pianist example works the other way than you say: "I don't like the music this pianist plays" is a perfectly normal opinion to have.
Preaty good review, as usual, but i will say, with a game like this, i think it needed a lot more playtime for a proper review. While it’s preaty good when it comes to the first impresione of it, and the core mechanics, cycle 2 and 3 are extreamly diffrent from cycle 1, and you can’t properly review ATO with only cycle 1 sadly. Cycle 1 for example is a lot easier then cycle 2 and 3, for some that might be a good thing (me) for others it was the reason they quit the game, and this review dosen’t include the other 66% of the game
@@thedicetower that's fair to say you dont have the extra time to experience the last 2/3rd of the game. But you should be clear during the review in stating that. Wouldn't that also be fair?
@@adam551982 He did say it, multiple times in multiple ways. Like when he said he looked through the components to see what they had yet to run into specifically to prepair for the review. They pointed out they had 2 6 hour sessions total.
I think they assessed it properly. The score was good with the caveat that it would be higher if you dedicated more time to it. That tells you exactly who this game is for.
I 100% agree, this game requires about as much time as a D&D campaign. If you are not willing to invest it’s probably a 7.5. If you are willing to make this “your and your groups game” it very likely could climb to a 9 or so.
I completely agree, if you are not willing to play the game a decent way through, then just don't bother reviewing, they don't have to review every game.
Typical lazy gamers - marking of the sheet is too tedious, book keeping is tedious, listening/reading the story arcs is boring, not enough information on the map tiles so have to read the book (imagine the size of the table to fit those tiles on), other games play quicker so they must be better. At least Tom thought about the game for the audience it was designed for - Stick to Ticket to Ride is probably my advice to the others.
Well, usualy a game is made to be fun, and as easy as possible to play, so i think those are 100% rezonable complaints someone can have. I will say tho that the other 2 beside Tom seemd well outside the audiance for ATO
Huge props to Tom, Camilla, and Joey for this review! The time and effort that goes into reviewing this was clearly immense!
Yep, when I got it I was like: what was I thinking? And resold it. Props for the undertaking!
I 100% agree, this game requires about as much time as a D&D campaign. If you are not willing to invest it’s probably a 7.5. If you are willing to make this “your and your groups game” it very likely could climb to a 9 or so.
Really great review and agree with nearly everyone's points. The game is dense and heavy that will feel frustrating if you only play it once in a while. If however you dedicate the time to it, there is a chance Aeons Trespass will be the best campaign game you've ever played.
I played it solo with permanent setup and it truly meets all my expectations. I wouldn't play with more than 2 players honestly because of all the decision making and titan losses.
I'm starting cycle 3 now and the journey I've been through up to this point is incredible and can't wait to see how it concludes.
To Camilla's point about player elimination, I think many will find that 2 players is where this game shines, with each player piloting 2 titans. This also helps with rules overhead/retention, and simply getting through the thing from a time perspective. A wild gaming experiment. I'm glad it exists.
I’m with you, I think two players would be the spot. Solo is too much upkeep, 4 players causes player elimination and constant vigilance to make sure everyone is grasping the rules.
Most of this style of game where the player unit count is set at a fixed number work best with 1 or 2 less players than the total number of units. 2-3 Player always has been the optimal group size for boss battlers with long campaigns.
Played this three times now at 4p count at around 10+ hours. As they said, combat is lucky, frustrating, and brutal as well as repetitive - Hekaton 3x, Minotaur-thing 2x. A typical turn is try to reach the enemy, try to hit the enemy, then try to wound the enemy, fail more often than not. And if you fail, the enemy often pounds you across the arena. Sometimes even when you HIT them, you still get countered and knocked around. So many turns where I got knocked down or knocked back so far that I literally could do nothing but stand up or move towards them and that was it. Wait for 10 minutes for my next turn, rinse and repeat. Nothing like spending an hour blocked by maze Tetris pieces, getting to attack twice and never landing a single blow. I didn't find the exploration to be satisfying either. The story and world is unique and well-written to be fair, but an exploration phase is check off box, move to new tile, might be something there, might not. Draw a few rando cards to see what weird materials you get, lose some more reputation (so many of the choices are 'bad or worse' and the rewards make no sense), maybe get some weird mnenos card that may or may not randomly level up. The tech tree is (too) massive but largely invisible and clunky and only slightly interesting so far. The whole thing is so much randomness between dice rolls and card draws and if I have to play any game for 20+ hours before it might get good, not for me, sorry. Trying to figure out the best way to break it to my buddy who bought the darned thing that I'm out.
Absolutely disagree. The battles are laegely a skill game. Yes theres rng from the dice, but you can indeed get good and destroy the primordials at early levels if you know what youre doing.
It's a low luck game if you use some brain. Have the right gear and tactics, almost auto win. Have neither, yea I can see that you need to win the lotto
Yea there a lot of down time if you played at 4 players. Worse if you die or using the wrong strategy. Most battles isnt run up and swing. people play this solo or at 2 players.
There isn't much to exploration 10 hours in, but it does grow over time
This game has some of the biggest moments (highs and lows) of any game I have ever played. You really feel, especially at the start, that you are embarking on an odyssey and that all odds are against you. The brilliance of the combat system is that every battle feels epic and important. You will win battles that you never thought possible, and lose battles disastrously. It is all part of the epic story that unfolds before you as you play the game. It is a different type of game; you just have to be willing to strap in and go along for the ride. Yes, it is extremely complicated (and I agree, to some extent needlessly). But Tom is right: with the investment, there is a massive payoff. I will say that I play this solo, and it is great solo. The thought of finding anyone else committed enough to go through the whole journey with me is laughable. It is just too much. So I get why Camila and others might not want to invest the time. But I think it is fairer to recognize that while this may not be a game with mass appeal, it is probably the best campaign boss battler out there, and given the competition in that space (KDM and Oathsworn, I’m looking at you) that it saying something.
So def better than Oathsworn?
I think it's the kind of game you'll play solo. It feels like a solo RPG tabletop game from what I saw about it and it's why I'm looking for a late pledge (I will have to find a way to extend my table).
I don't see myself introducing this kind of game to my friend as I did with Gloomhaven or too many bones. It's a big commitment and I think it's why on bgg the top player rating is 1 and 2 players.
But amazing from what I saw and I need to try the tabletop simulator demo before deciding if I late pledge or not.
One thing worth adding: the game is best at 1-2 players. As Tom suggested, it really shines solo, and the overhead of playing four Titans is not too much. Four is a definite no-no. And three is doable, but pushing your luck with player elimination. Would love to see a Mike solo review of this one (or a look back from Tom in a year if he does play it solo). Also love imagining a Zee review of this game because he would absolutely hate it, and would be hilarious telling us how much he hates it!😂
huh... a 1000 dollar solo game...
ATO is one of the most impressive games ive ever played.
ok, i'm into this game - gonna back it!
SIDE NOTE: i have My Fathers Work also. and i've played it. multiple times. *WHY ON EARTH* does everyone say it has 'a lot of text'?!? there is, like maybe, 3-4 paragraphs between each stage of life and each generation. it's NO WHERE near a novel!! i'm just disappointed they didnt have voice acting for ALL of it - just at the beginning of the generation...
Missed this but backed Kingdoms Forlorn, which is shaping up to be something special. Thanks for your insights guys.
Reprint coming shortly
@@NeilY1000 yeah but at 3x the original price (or close to it).
Though there is also a sequel coming in that campaign.
Yep. That’s my issue as well. Going to be extremely expensive this next time around.
@@Rodfather_Prime I've not even considering ATO. I expect Twelve Sins to be far less because that's been their style for 2 games; KS original is the best price and it slowly increases during the PM, so that's the one I'll be watching.
maybe the next biggest game they review 🙂
I somehow lived under a rock with this one. I never heard of this game and never knew there was a KS or anything. Not a peep….. until this video.
Something that wasn't mentioned here was how the player choices drive the story and have huge impact on how this plays out. comparisons with Oathsworn don't really do either game justice. My Oathsworn experiance is the story is on rails, and no matter what choice i make I still fight the same monster at the same time, just with a different variation of tokens. ATO Im getting chased and don't want to get caught, or have my prized titan dispatched, I worry about what territory im in depending if im friends or enemies with that faction, what would have happened if i was nice to that last NPC, - its not just a different token, its a whole different story arc that changes on your decision here. Definitely a commitment time wise, but for me the story is very addictive, just like a great book.
Have a great time playing this, great story, gameplay, figures and art.
If you are willing to put in the time, this game is absolutely amazing. Easy recommend from mee and a contender for favorite game of all time.
I am half way through cycle 1 and this game is one of the best u ever played. Has incredibly memorable moments in battle.
I can see their points, but at the same time even in cycle 1 the whole story and fighting and your control about the fights changes (you can increase hit probabilities a lot with new gear and you need to play a bit with the triskelion parameters) a lot. Also the primordials change a lot with higher level. (e.g. in the first fights with the Hekaton you would prevent to stand in front of columns, but later on they can prevent you from thrown from the cliff and you can easily stand up with new gear). The story is great (and I don't perceive the story parts as that long) and gives you more space for strategic decisions (in Oathsworn you only get tokens here and there or get wounded or so on)
Oathsworn is also fun and much more accessible, but ATO, once you are hooked, gives you so much more (as Tom said, he thought about it all the time). I finished Cycle 1 solo and will now start cycle 2 with some friends.
Don't get me wrong, the game is really good but I don't think its a good idea to introduce your friends into this massive game straight into cycle 2. They're gonna get crushed not only in battle phase (the primordials act completely different than those found in cycle 1) but also in the voyage/adventure phase (the map is a lot more brutal than that of cycle 1).
totally agree with you
@@renzchua6331 I would say that my friends would be underwhelmed with the first 20 days of cycle 1. They learn fast and they are good in tactic and strategy
Oh boy, getting your friends to start in cycle 2. I also learn games fast and i've played countless of tactics and strategy games on the hardest dificulty. Cycle 1 is like a tutorial for cycle 2, and they will probably have a mizerable time unless you play for them for the first 20-40 days, and that's something i would also consider quite unfun.
This game really doesn't hide it's "homage" to KDM
Congrats ITU! Well done!
Would never have figured in a million years that this will become a DT review. We are playing through this campaign ourselves, this is our only current campaign game we have, playing it max every 2 weeks for over 3 months now. Great fun, though the limitations and caveats (for lack of a better word ;) ) that you mention I agree almost 100% with.
Also, spoiler: this is way more than 100 hours per campaign. Unless you skip reading and speed through without thinking... insane amount of content in here.
I was waiting for it because I recall a while back that Tom was excited about this game but then I didn't hear a peep after it delivered and began to wonder if I hallucinated it XD
We have this gigantic box sitting on the floor in the studio! Really hope to play it sometimes during the year. We’ll see what happens 😅
I prefer KDM. It requires less commitment. You can hit the pause button more easily.
Player elimination was actually what killed it for me for backing the first campaign; I saw that and said no way do I want to spring a "you are dead" draw on the group. It was interesting to hear that at least 2 of you were willing to house rule away this outcome. I'm keep coming back to considering backing it in the reprint though.
after some time you know what cards every primordial has so you can count what cards already came out so you know how much damage you have to do statistically on the next card
only you don't know whats being added during escalation .. but a couple extra cards over the standard number would have been good.
I did the let's play then read rules as they came up; as a tabletopper I found everything intuitive and it becomes extremely quick
reminds me of how playing titan would grind to a halt when it turned into Heroes of Might and Magic style combat.
I´ll wait for the digital version LOL.
I think Oathsworn will take people away from this game but I do think this is overall better, despite the length. I don't think it's better than Kingdom Death only in that KDM has the most unique flavor out of pretty much any board game space and has the modeling aspect to it so I don't lump them in the same category really.
If you pay attention, think about the battles, and go in prepared, you dont need much luck to win most battles.
Recommended for 1-2 players
'first fight the monster needs a 7 on a d10 straight roll'
sure bloke sure
@@davidlewis5312 ??
And you win the battle regardless so not sure what you are getting at
04:55
Well, actually... they are reasonably well hidden if you're not looking for them, but they do exist (and they're not common, to be fair).
A bit of a shame about the focus on luck mitigation, as you get so many more tools available, but I can understand how the very lack of those tools early (and isn't that a thing, to call "20 hours in" as "early", hah) has an impact, as well.
Overall, I think this was a great review considering the inherent limitations.
I do agree that this is a game which by its very nature will only be appreciated by people that already favor large campaign games and/or boss battlers. Well rated within its niche, but just not something that -can- be really appreciated by the larger portion of the gaming public, and that's completely okay. There are numerous games I wouldn't give a second look at, which occupy the Top 100 list, or are generally loved by the broader community.
We all have our own preferences, and I am pleasantly surprised to see this game rated as well as it was here. I can definitely understand the (ever-increasing) depth of mechanics making this difficult to inconsistently table, but I liked how much the three of you appreciated the story provided.
Hekaton means 100. In Hellenic Mythology there was these monsters called Ἑκατόγχειρες Hecatoncheires which means Hundredhands. They discarded the hands part. I am Greek or Hellene. The country is called Hellas and not Greece some of us prefer this word and rebel others think its to nationalistic to try and make it pollitical corect so they dont care and leave it as it is. Just some info for anyone out there. Have a nice day.
Why would Hellas be too nationalistic? 😮
for that game you need to get a good group of consistent players together and say we play nothing else until we finish this campaign, only way I could ever buy or play that
Do you think your score might have been higher if they had gone the Oathsworn route and replaced the dice with card decks?
It seems like quite the investment to find value - life’s too short! I’ll stick to other campaign games.
So....will Tom be reviewing their next game, Kingdoms Forlorn, when it arrives who knows when?
Just as a side note - I think if you are only 6 fights deep you are still a bit too early in the campaign to correctly assess the level of luck mitigation you can get later. It's true there's not much at first but later with good weaponry to choose from - you easily get 5 to 7 tokens in Kratos pool during attacks.
I realize the game is meant to be epic, but the luck mitigation is a fair criticism if it's buried 20-30 hours into the game.
@@VaultBoy13 it isn’t buried 20-30 hours in. You start with mitigation abilities from the very beginning. But you are meant to lose some fights at the beginning. That turns a lot of people off, but that is what makes the epic struggle in the game so great. It is a hard game, and success is earned.
Will there be full point by point comparison to KDM or Oathsworn: luck-wise/story-wise/depth-wise?
No. :)
@@thedicetower Curses! :)
Is there going to be another KS for this game?
Mid of May there is the new KS with a nex standalone expansion and reprint of this.
Is the quality of the story writing different than the writing on the body part cards? I watched a playthrough with the Hecaton and thought the names of the Hecaton's attacks and the descriptions/lore on the body part cards was very childish.
Yes, the quality of the story telling is exceptional. I always look forward to peeling back more layers from the story. The BP cards definitely take a cue from KDM and inject a tiny bit of humor into the otherwise macabre theme of lopping off body parts.
Great Review by Tom.
He is able to rate a game based on its target audience and the design the creators intended.
I wouldn’t rate a party game and then say, I don’t enjoy party games because I do not hold parties…or like light games in general…
Jup just saying i don´t have time to play such games and that´s why i can not fully dive into it and then giving it sh** review scores because of that fact is very sad in my opinion.
Not just sad. It’s incorrect, they are not fit for the review, might as well should have saved time for everyone, including themselves….
Oh man.
Yet another game that I, in another timeline, would play and love.
But no way.
Also. It seems a bit grindy which is a big no no for me.
I own both games Oathsworn and Aeon Trespass. Sorry but i can not understand why people would say i like Oathsworn more.....
Aeon Trespass is definitely better if you find the time to play it and even if you do not have so much time it would be worth to invest time into this game.
Oathsworn = like some reviewers mentioned. Good Story but only decisions with no consequences you only get different tokens for your next fight.
Aeon Trespass = on the other hand this really gives you choices that influence your game now and onwards even through other cycles.
That´s a HUGE difference in my opinion.
And sorry rating a game like this before you even got a nymh is too early (i guess i got one after 5-6 hours in one of my campaigns.). I had my first nymph very soon in my campaign, and most of my early fights with monsters where really fair.
Seems like we played different games.....
I can definitely understand the point with setup and bookkeeping. Some people already said this in the past about KDM.
I hoped for better scores for this game, but it seems like all of you three just don´t have the time for such a game anymore.
I missed some things like finding the hidden runes for the secret story paragraphs and such things. Explaining how important ship management is while you move around. Explaining the impact of choices for your gear, future stories, your ship and so on.....
Explaining that you get bonusses if you lose a campaign and that you can get better chances next time.
Explaining that there a quick start rules for the following campaigns, if you want to play one of the campaigns again without playing the one before.
.....
What i want to say with this is that there is much more to the game that was not mentioned and i don´t know if you have thrown all of that things into your score or if you just said:
"Okay i have invested enough time now, i will just rate it based on what i experienced and not on what the game has to offer in total."
My favourite game I own. I think this is a game to play solo or with one other person, probably a best friend or partner. It’s an amazing game … KDM is just nowhere near as much fun. I own KDM so not just throwing mud.
But as said in the review it is a table hog and it is a real time sync…. 2 things I love. If ATO is for you then You already own it or follow the next kickstarter. If your favourite game is 30-45 mins then this is not for you …. Probably
And if your a painter it’s worth it just for the minis they are superb
@Patrick White I have ATO and KDM. I love both. I would sell ATO after I finish all 5 cycles. I’ll never sell KDM. While the story of ATO is awesome, after I’m done, I don’t think there is reason to go back. But the emergent story-telling of KDM means every time I go back, there is something different happening. Also, I think GCE and CoD will extend the life of the game even further.
@Patrick White I still love KDM but have checked out of it due to the extortionate prices of the expansions and the lack of any available new content. I’d never sell it though as it’s a great game. ATO seems to be better supported and has a roadmap that seems to be delivering. KF is looking good as well.
If Mr Poots could just stop focusing on individual models and actually create products I’d have all of it. I decided to skip on the expansions last time round because I’m just not sure he will ever deliver them 😆
Should add I’m in the UK and nothing is ever in stock on kdm website
It looks like the kind of game where complexity lies inside the rulebook, instead of the gameplay itself. For me, that is the worse one. Feels like a "hard to learn, easy to master" game...
Not true. Hard to learn and hard to master. Combat is fun and theres def a skill gap to learning how to handle each primordial at different levels. Once you "figure out" the ai decks adn targeting rules, youll start to catch on to best positioning, which gear to use, using distance as an advantage, when to attack to force an ai deck shuffle, when is it a good idea to escalate the deck versus when its best to wait, should i try and hit this upcoming bp card? Should i hit this bp card knowing it will be a miss but this specific titan will leave the appropriate amount of opening or break tokens in the kratos pool greatly increasing the chance of causing a wound. Should i pass on this titans turn to increase the rage on my other titan to swap who controls the priority target token? Should i forego a few attacks to get inside a city to increae my evasion? Theres a smorgasbord of things to do and thats early on. Just wait till you get a bunch of gear and fight nastier beasties. THEN the gake really opens up!
So KDM without the x rated stuff.
This here will be played because of the story, so I would disagree.
Definitely an homage to KDM (I mean look at that white box!😂). But think multi-branching scripted story instead of the mostly emergent story-telling of KDM. Also, the escalation system in the combat is very different from KDM. I love how it makes every battle crescendo into these intense make-or-break moments, but it also adds a lot of complexity that leaves KDM’s combat system feeling very smooth and simple by comparison (though no less brutal!).
Here’s an 80 page rule book.
All the sharks at once: “and for that reason I’m out.” 02:29
Oh man, a SFW clone of kingdom death monster with a better dress. One main issue which they didn't cover (because they couldent in 12 h play) is the strain of rinse and repeat of the campaign. If you fail and lose your titans, if you play by the book, you have to start over. Come back and tell if the same boss battle is still fun after 15-20 times. Hard pass.
Your titans are expendable, you have quite a bit of them in stock so losing through titan loss isn't as common as you are making it out to be. Campaign loss can still happen yes but repeating the cycle is still fun because you are not stuck reading the same passage again plus the fights are still fun. This is coming from a guy who spent 150+ hours (fighting the same set of primordials 10-15 times each) in playing cycle 1 twice, one solo and one in a group.
@@renzchua6331 How is the game solo? I am debating if I should solo it or play with my wife, but we have SO many campaign games to get through(frost haven, oathsworn, etc) that I feel like this one may be better solo. I also got all 5 cycles...
@@botousai As long as you have an organizational solution, whether it be a DIY or just plain leaving it out on the table, to this behemoth of a game, everything should work out fine. Gameplay is smooth once you get the hang of it though it is recommended to continuously play it so you don't forget the rules nor the story.
@@renzchua6331 Thanks! That is exactly why I wanna play it solo(so I can play it every day).
It's starting to reach the point where you guys should consider finding some US based reviewers who are slower in their review cycle because they play through these campaign games at least once. It's clear that the group you brought with your here Tom are not the target audience and also none of you have the time to review even just the first cycle of a game like this.
You realize that cycle one is 80-90 hours, right? We ARE the target audience, as I am going to finish the game.
@@thedicetower I think the critique is still valid though, and is probably a growing frustration of many watchers of review channels due to the race to get a review out first. We saw with Timestories (which could have also been released in one big campaign box) how an awful ending spoiled the entire experience and brought your rating for the series down considerably. The question is; how useful is experience of 10-30% of an entertainment product? You could say who may find a movie interesting after watching the first 20minutes, but could you really rate the movie as a whole? Tricky.
@@simonadams Well, there was no race here. I've had the game for three or more months!
@@thedicetower oh, trust me, i appreciate that! I have been ignoring other reviews while eagerly awaiting your thoughts
One thing I love about this: yes its a big box, but EVERYTHING is in that box. No 14 boxes of extra minis and expansions, you said its less compact then Oathsworn, but if you have the minis for that game it is almost 3 times the size of this game.
AOT is a 9 !!
16:11 wtf was that hand gesturing ?
Shuffling the new cards in the decks. (She quietly says "shuffle".)
I'm a voice actor, You should hire me to read the stories to you :)
Okay, that burgundy d6 in the shelf display HAS TO GO! The 4 and 3 are not adjacent, they are opposite! You have to know this (and I'm likely not the first to mention it, but I have yet to see it). It bugs me every time I see a video on this set. 😢
Now that I see it, I can never unsee it!
9 lives still sitting on its side is still bothering me.
That's actually the right way up!
This literally sounds awful. If this was what board gaming was, I wouldn't be a board gamer.
A lot of ppl enjoy complex games like this
Always a sign of great character when people shit on things they don't like or understand 👍
@@duduthedruid1835 Not really. It's a niche. Even among boardgamers. Actually, it's probably not even a game that is for every person who enjoys campaign board games. And that's fine. Choices are good.
@@aimajica what are you talking about? this game is compared to Kingdom death monster which broke a record in the kickstarter and is one of the most succesful to this day, this is nowhere niche as you think, this are the type of games that are making money, and gathering positive reviews, this is what board games are today. sure people may not like it, but the popularity of this big campaign games speak otherwise
@@ezunino1711
I'm not saying it's not a (relative) KS success. It's not a negative statement, it's just reality. Games that are mostly only available through KS are niche.
Only 8000 persons WORLDWIDE backed "Aeon Trespass: Odyssey", and not many more will have an occasion to play it. And that's, more or less, the same people who backed other big campaign games like KDM.
That's the initial "raison d'être" of the KS system by the way: a way to produce games that are so big, expensive and "niche", that they wouldn't be able to be sold to enough people on retail to become profitable.
On retail, selling only 8000 copies of a game is considered a failure. Most retail games sell 10k to 50k copies. Sell more, and you have a successful game in your hand.
Only a chunk of hobby gamers buy games through crowdfunding (I don't judge, I do it too! ;) ), and yes, people who like the types of games you find on KS will throw a lot of money at them (a lot and directly, so those games are profitable enough for their creators).
But casual gamers (the huge majority) will never even think about paying that much money for a game, and spending that much time on only one big campaign game.
8000 people compared to the number of people who will play a mildly successful retail game (as I said between 10k and 50k copies for most "doing ok" games) are not many. And I'm not even talking about the big retail games: how many more people will play games like Ticket to Ride, 7 Wonders, Splendor, Carcassonne, Kingdomino... at least once in their life?
Yes, KS Campaign games are niche, and Aeon's Trespass seems to be even more demanding than most. Not saying it's a bad one though.
This is one of the greatest games of all time and has a 9.3, yes 9.3 on BGG and these guys give it a 6-8 rating, LOL. Says a lot about their intellectual depth to handle heavy board games.
Kinda backwards here. Did you watch to see if they could guess the BGG rating? Or to see their review? 9.3 is an average that includes lots of 6's, 7's, and 8's.
@@fpoggesi “kinda backwards”?? Very few games have a rating over 9, and many great games are in the 8s, and yes, I understand the notion of an average, but enough people though this game was so great that they gave it a 10. Also, a materially low number of poor ratings indicating, statistically, that this is highly well-received by the community. You may not like it, which is fine, but I think that it is a brilliant game.
@@Deltium5683 Yes it is backwards. You said that their reviews were different than the BGG score so they were dumb ("...says a lot about their intellectual depth..."). That only makes sense if you think the Dice Tower review is Dice Tower trying to guess the BGG score. That's backwards. You watch reviews to see their reaction to the game, and they give a review. BGG adds up reviews from lots of people to come up with their score.
I'm not doubting you liked the game. I'm saying that other people are allowed to not like it. And not liking your favorite game doesn't make them idiots.
@@fpoggesi perhaps you can show me a truly heavy game that these guys understood and reviewed properly; my issue is that this group is not a heavy board gaming group, and it would be like me reviewing a concert pianist and not knowing more than a few notes on the piano itself. In other words, they are not credible as they don’t understand the nuances nor appreciate the wonderful complexity.
@@Deltium5683 Not impressed with the gatekeeping going on in your comment. People are allowed to have opinions. These guys are professional game reviewers and it sounds like they played a large fraction of a working week on this game--their opinions are informed and valid.
The concert pianist example works the other way than you say: "I don't like the music this pianist plays" is a perfectly normal opinion to have.
Thanks for explaining that this crap is a dice roll fest.
Oh well, back to my good ol tactical Gloomhaven :)
Preaty good review, as usual, but i will say, with a game like this, i think it needed a lot more playtime for a proper review.
While it’s preaty good when it comes to the first impresione of it, and the core mechanics, cycle 2 and 3 are extreamly diffrent from cycle 1, and you can’t properly review ATO with only cycle 1 sadly. Cycle 1 for example is a lot easier then cycle 2 and 3, for some that might be a good thing (me) for others it was the reason they quit the game, and this review dosen’t include the other 66% of the game
Sure, but we don't always have 100+ hours to put into a game. We gave this one a very fair shake, I think.
@@thedicetower that's fair to say you dont have the extra time to experience the last 2/3rd of the game. But you should be clear during the review in stating that. Wouldn't that also be fair?
They said they played it for 6 hours twice.
12 hours is far more than enough to review any game.
@@adam551982 He did say it, multiple times in multiple ways. Like when he said he looked through the components to see what they had yet to run into specifically to prepair for the review. They pointed out they had 2 6 hour sessions total.
@@Draffut2003 so just looming at componenets tells you exactly how it's played later? Nah. Not the same.
Disappointed in this review . I think they need more playtime before doing review of n a game this size .
But they have lives and stuff.
If it takes 20+ hours to appreciate a game, it probably deserves a lower score
I think they assessed it properly. The score was good with the caveat that it would be higher if you dedicated more time to it. That tells you exactly who this game is for.
I 100% agree, this game requires about as much time as a D&D campaign. If you are not willing to invest it’s probably a 7.5. If you are willing to make this “your and your groups game” it very likely could climb to a 9 or so.
Shouldn't have to play a game 100 hours to know whether or not you like it.
I completely agree, if you are not willing to play the game a decent way through, then just don't bother reviewing, they don't have to review every game.
I’ve never bought a board game for the sexual nature of the game.
Typical lazy gamers - marking of the sheet is too tedious, book keeping is tedious, listening/reading the story arcs is boring, not enough information on the map tiles so have to read the book (imagine the size of the table to fit those tiles on), other games play quicker so they must be better. At least Tom thought about the game for the audience it was designed for - Stick to Ticket to Ride is probably my advice to the others.
Stick to politer comments is my advice to you.
Well, usualy a game is made to be fun, and as easy as possible to play, so i think those are 100% rezonable complaints someone can have. I will say tho that the other 2 beside Tom seemd well outside the audiance for ATO
@@thedicetower great retort. Besides, you clearly implied that this is designed for the hardcore gamer