Let's just go with the one from Wikipedia: "A recreational vehicle, often abbreviated as RV, is a motor vehicle or trailer that includes living quarters designed for accommodation. Types of RVs include motorhomes, campervans, coaches, caravans, fifth-wheel trailers, popup campers, and truck campers".
I saw an accident where a SEMI hit an RV that was towing an SUV. After seeing that accident I knew that I would NEVER own one. It exploded like a pigeon being hit by a high speed train.
I just (3 weeks ago) had a job interview with a _very_ high end RV manufacturer in Oregon. There's only one very high end RV maker in Oregon, so a Google search will tell you which one it is. During the interview they kept saying how important it was to get everything absolutely _perfect._ To make their point, they showed me a 9"x11" mirror that had a pinhole flaw in the silvering that had been discarded because it wasn't perfect. When we finally got around to talking about pay, they said they started at $16 an hour and raises were between $0.10 and $0.50 per year. Minimum wage in Oregon is currently $14.20. When they called me a week later to formally offer me the job, I said no thanks, Taco Bell is offering $17.50 to start.
To be fair, many (all?) employers do that. I saw a job posting for a senior-level software developer that required an active security clearance and many years of DoD industry experience. It was a salaried position with a range (in Colorado they must post a salary range) that started below minimum wage and ended just under twice minimum wage. But the job listing specifically stated that no candidate would be offered a salary at or near the top of the range.
This is the WORST part about many companies these days. They don't even understand WHAT the competitive wages are especially with how bad inflation has been. If you're paying anything below $15 an hour to an adult, you aren't paying a livable wage. After taxes you are talking about taking home around $2k a month, even with a mortage of 500 bucks I'm still paying up 1400-1500 in expenses WITHOUT a car every month. Now imagine if I had a car or I was renting? Yea, that's over $2 grand a month. I'm also in a bottom 10 cost of living state too so just imagine if I weren't.
What someone offers for pay is not something bad, they have done nothing wrong, only if you decide to work there and are unhappy with that pay has anyone done something wrong, and its you, for accepting that offer. If they pay crap wages they will get crap employees, or none at all. They have to have people, so it will fix itself
When I bought my last vehicle I sat in the sales managers office and read the contract thoroughly and the sales manager became impatient with me. I said sir, you want me to spend this large sum of money, I'm certainly going to read what I'm signing. Before I accepted delivery of the vehicle at the dealership and signed off on it I did a thorough walk around, checked every feature and took it for a test drive. Then I signed the documents. They were upset at this as well. I said I know my rights and I will not sign for anything without reading it first and understand what I'm agreeing to or accepting. Now it wasn't hours, but it did take me 20 minutes before signing the sales contract and about an hour testing the vehicle. More people need to do this.
I would walk out the second they copped any attitude. If I came across any bullshit, they would have to grovel to get me to consider following through. That is why I am happy owning old used stuff. Because if I am going to overpay for new, and on top of that, pay sales taxes to feed a corrupt state government that grows like a cancer on taxpayer money, that shit better come to me on a stick!
@@jy9291 I keep my stuff forever. I only bought a vehicle because the other was 20 years old and had 300K on it. The interior was done and the body was done.
Did you ask your Government Agency to crash one or two for you or did you ask your insurance agency for a Homeowners Policy on the structure? They'd both have a good laugh at your expense.
Exactly. In the '70s CW was a convenient (for some) source that rarely had any competition. It has evolved into another bastion of overpriced, half-baked products that rarely have more value than their packaging. The nicest part of visiting a store is being told to take a flying leap as soon as you close your wallet.
If I ever saw a contract with as much bold and underlined print as that one has I'd laugh and walk away no matter how much I wanted what they were selling
I'd have some fun with them instead. When handed the paper to sign, I'd tell them I have to take it home to read it before I sign it. Next day I'd call them and say I stopped at another dealer on the way home and found another RV I like better. Sorry, but the deal's off.
Absolutely, I don't need anything THAT bad. I refused to sign a home solar contract for less than that. I'm sick and tired of these contracts that don't have a single thing in my favor. The way they're written in the first person (I understand this, I agree to that) as if I wrote it really turns me off.
@@mortanicus5871 Courts generally won't uphold such one-sided contracts which are presented in a "take it or leave it" fashion with no allowance for the less powerful party to negotiate, ESPECIALLY when the side which had the contract pre-written is a business and the side presented with "you have to accept this agreement for this transaction" is a private individual or homeowner. These are generally held to be "unconscionable" as no reasonable person negotiating a contract would accept such terms.
Bought a brand new Winnebago recently for $150K. Was my wife’s choice, not mine. Absolutely the worst POS quality and workmanship I’ve ever witnessed in my life.
@@pamlove421 they get away with it because people continue to purchase new RVs and sign these ridiculous contracts. It won't stop until people stop doing those things. We live in the age of instant access to information. The internet is littered with RV groups, bulletin boards, UA-cam videos, Facebook pages that describe the horror stories of these RVs and the contracts. There's no excuse that people looking to purchase these things shouldn't be informed walking in the door. We shouldn't have to enact laws to protect people from their own stupidity and laziness.
@@mattdelany6799 495 nights sounds about right. At 60 nights per year that's about 8 years. But for the RV: Storage, maintenance, insurance, gas, large repair bills. To each his own, fair enough, but definitely not for me.
I just made this point to a dog friend. People buy an RV for the lifestyle, not because it’s economical. About 500 rooms in a hotel (not counting operating expenses).
When a motor vehicle comes with a no-warranty disclaimer *in bold and underlined* on the front page of the contract, you might want to just walk away… 😵💫
The sad truth is that no one reads those documents at signing. When people sign with me, I have had zero out of thousands of people who read every word. People will get just a brief overview at most. This is a a form regarding warranty, signsl here..., and people do it. Really, they should have a lawyer at their side for closing just like a house.
@@beepbop6697 Of course, but these are brand new. There is no good reason to not offer a warrantee, unless they know that these RV's are junk. As soon as I saw the literature that states no warrantee and as-is, I would have wadded that paper up, placed it in my pocket, and walked out without a word. That is a horrible way to do business.
Ok. I do have to defend the RV industry just a smidge here. People want a house you can drive down the road at 60 mph and have everything work all of the time for less than $100,000. Yes, they were built better in the 80's, and early 90's so what has changed? Steel. You could buy the quality steel needed at an affordable price because the U.S. used to manufacture steel in a town called... Gary, IN... and you can look up how Gary was destroyed economically. Now they have to import the steel and overseas companies claim it is the same "quality", but it isn't. It just isn't. The proof is in everything made after 2000.
I’m a retired Prosecutor and Judge and I always read contracts before I sign. Clauses I don’t like I scratch out. I have walked away from purchases in which my scratch-outs were refused. You have to be prepared to do so or later on, you may be sorry when the item you purchased turns out to be faulty. As a Judge I have had to enforce terrible contract clauses signed by purchasers. I always ask, “didn’t you read that contract before you signed it? The answers were mostly “no”. The last time I walked away from a purchase was in 2001, on the closing date for my present house, when the mortgage contained provisions that allowed the mortgagor to invade our privacy by having a right to inspect our house with or without cause. It wasn’t more than a few hours before the sales agent had a better mortgage contract prepared for us.
I learned the hard way, I now read the entire contract, the last purchase we did was a car, I sat there and read the entire contract, I had questions and ended up dropping some of the add-ons, they kept telling me it was a standard contract, he also told me they had other people waiting, then he asked me to step out of the finance office and read so he could get others thru the process, I told the finance guy if I get up and leave this office I am taking the contract with me and leaving, he let me stay in the office, he left for a bit.
What about medical billing. It's standard practice now to sign a document that basically says: "you may also get billed by unknown parties for unknown amounts". NO ONE would ever sign such a thing anywhere else but a doctor's office. How is this even legal?
A friend who loves to camp comfortably has a great method. She rents a nice travel trailer and has them deliver it to her camping spot and set it up for her. She camps for a week, and they come by and pick up their trailer. All she does is drive there and have a good vacation.
Friends wonder why I was so happy to buy a 1996 RV - this is one of the biggest reasons why! All the bugs (or at least 99% of them) have long been worked out, and there's no issues with warranties since it was way beyond that point. I went into it eyes wide open knowing that what I saw is what I got, and I had no one but myself to blame for anything.
Fun fact: most failures of a product occur either at the beginning or the end of a product's life. This is called a "bathtub distribution" because on a graph, it looks like the cross section of a bathtub.
I've heard that the Fleetwood Bounder is one of the best used RV's to buy. If I were to buy a used RV, the Fleetwood bounder would be at the top of my list.
Many moons ago, my wife and I began camping, I think, if my memory serves, my 52 year old daughter was a 6 month old when we bought our first tent. Over the years I purchased many RV's beginning with used camper trailers, pop up trailers and as we aged and setting up camp was more and more of a chore, we purchase motor homes. Now I only purchased one new camper, it was nice but a piece of crap, the slide out failed, the floor covering cracked on the main part of the camper and while not the fault of the maker, 3 hail storms hit the unit. the first 2 the insurance covered, then promptly canceled my policy because of "to many claims." What we learned about RV'S is common knowledge among users of motor homes. The units are not completed by the manufacturer, it is up to the new owner to shake out all the problems. Our last unit was a glorious RV. It was beautiful inside and out. We would travel South before the snows of the Dakota's flew, and come home after the thaw. Every time we took the unit South (we got it used) we put over 1000 bucks into repairs. I lost my wife 4 years ago now, the RV sat in the back yard from the COVID years and last spring a fellow knocked on my door wanting to buy it. I gave it to him if he took over payments, well the bank said no but he got a loan and purchased it. I was happy to see it drive away, my bank account was thrilled with the payments (600 a month) stopped and I could afford to live without my wife's income. While the time we spent together in that RV were precious, we fell in love again all over and had wonderous times, I would never give up, the RV was a thing of joy, and a pain in the ass all in one. Nice video, thanks
A true Man, that has Intellect enough to Maintain your own assets... A wife is a valued co-pilot through life. Comes the time when Single Pilot still operates, just a bit more self motivation required to maintain altitude through IMC.. Faith my friend. Life is still great, just different.. :)
Camping world is widely known as one of the most shady places you could ever do business with. They love to lure in people with low prices, then tack on a bunch of fees that were not disclosed upfront.
if not disclosed upfront, those fees really should be considered illegal and they should be forced to refund the entire price of whatever they bought from them while allowing them to keep it and offer them full servce for free.
I have heard many horror stories about Camping World from friends who have purchased from them, all opinions are the same: Camping World does not care about the customer once they sign the Purchase Agreement.
When they are disclosed is not relevant as long as it is disclosed before or at the time that the customer signs the agreement.@@theldraspneumonoultramicro405
I signed a contract for gutters and realized it was a rip off and reading the contract more carefully. I called and canceled the next morning, before they installed it, which was the day. They showed up anyway. I sent them packing. Fortunately in my state you have 2 days to cancel. No wonder they wanted to install it the next day. I am so thankful the law was in place to protect me, allowed me to recover form my mistake.
Gutterhelmet? I bought those and wish I hadn’t! This RV owner messed up big time but what lawyer in VA thought they could possibly overcome that contract???? More billable hours from a whale client on a case they should have known they couldn’t win in VA!
What is the point of gutters anyway? Isn’t just something extra that you have to clean out. Why do I care if rain falls next to my house? I’ve never had them.
@@trevortimmreck Yes... I have gutters. Further I put in my self (a lot of work, 100's and 100's and 100's of feet of trenches to lay drainage pipe) underground drainage, all gutters go to sumps and water is pumped to the street curb.... My back yard has a French Drain as well. I have clay soil and a flat lot with out a lot of fall to the street, and it's a long story but foundation is good. The company is LEAFGUARD (not to be confused with leaf filter but all these companies are a joke). LEAFGUARD has the cover over the gutter and through surface tension and capillary action the water rolls around the edge and into gutter... The cover keeps leafs out. I have 49 degree roof. The overshoot in heavy rain would be bad. YES TO GUTTER but no to $12,000 gutter "system" by LEAFGUARD.... That works out to be $80/ft.... AND THAT WAS THEIR GOOD DEAL....it started at $18,000.... but they gave me some bogus discount.... Ah holes... The sales were high and I don't know why I was so weak and careless to not read the contract well.
I was an RV dealer from 1990 to 2006. On a unit such as a van camper Chrysler warranties would cover Chassis and cab. Thor would cover any modifications done by Thor as far as walls and cabinetry done to the cab. Refrigerator and all other appliances and any electrical components are covered by those manufacturers that manufactured those components. It was a nightmare as a dealer to go to as all these different companies and try to be reimbursed for warranty work performed. To top it all off RV manufacturers have absolutely the worst quality control imaginable. I finally had enough and got out of the business.
True story: our attorney and the bank people literally let me know how displeased and irritated they were with me for taking 4x as long as it normally takes them for people to close on a home. I sat and read COMPLETELY every. Single. Page. that we signed when we closed on our house. And I literally told them that if the only page I had to sign was that THEY were gonna make our payments and the house would still be ours, I could have gotten it done in a few minutes. Sooo.... yeah, stop your loud sighs and comments so I can concentrate while I read the contract 😏😂
My bro screwed with a contract that was sent for his new house. Seller signed it without reading it. I'm not sure how much he made but it was a bad day for the seller. You did good.
@@greeneyesms That's generally never done in America at least, normally you just have a listing agent working for the sellers and your own agent, but no lawyers. Any involved are usually hidden behind the bank and you never meet or interact with them at all, everything is handed to you by the agent or maybe a notary public.
@@ragea1 I hired a lawyer to represent MY interests when I bought a house in Massachusetts. "It's routine, just sign it" wasn't going to happen without a lawyer available to me if I had questions.
@@greeneyesms That I can agree with completely, it's stupid not to protect yourself if you have any choice. Was just going off what seems to be the norm, not that it's exactly smart.
Man do I feel smart for buying a decommissioned ambulance and doing a conversion myself. I paid $12k and had it retitled as an rv. I have power, ac, water, cooking and a potty. Even have a little door to separate the cab and the box. King bed. And insane storage. Fits me, a mom who learned to do it all on yt, my two teen girls and my collie. We’ve traveled so much already!
And the added bonus? Emergency response vehicles have NO budget. Spend the money on maintaining it. So when you bought it, it probably needed very little repairs, or none at all. Only problem is the engine hours are normally higher.
I bought a semi truck 2 weeks ago, I was almost going to buy one from a Kenworth dealer in town but even though I was paying cash they handed over a purchase agreement. They asked for a $3,000 deposit and for me to sign a purchase agreement. The first paragraph of the purchase agreement agreed that they could change the base price. It also had an indemnity clause and arbitration clause. They were shocked when I refused and walked out. They said they'd never had that issue before. They called me days later explaining to me every dealership is going to offer me that same deal, I told them no I just bought a truck and I was sitting in the office where I just wire transferred money to buy my truck to a straightforward dealer. The idea that this is all industry standard is not true. You have to shop around, I don't know about for RVs but that's my case with the semi truck
They want it to be in South Bend because Elkhart is the RV manufacturing capital of the world. They know if they get it in South Bend, they will not get an unbiased jury pool because everyone living around there is dependant on or knows someone dependent on the RV industry.
In the 90s my great grandfather bought a brand new RV. The sink leaked and took 2 years to get the part (it was a specialty part). He ended up paying out of pocket and died a few months later never getting to use said RV. My grandmother sold it for next to nothing because it sat for years and she wasnt going to use it without him. This has been going on probably as long as RVs have been sold.
I bought my second RV (the first was a slide-in truck camper that I had to part with and wasn’t able to use much) in 2003. It was a 1995 Class A made by a higher-end brand and built on a Chevrolet chassis. I bought it from a friend whose dad owned it but became terminally ill. The RV was parked for three years. I helped my friend get the RV ready to sell by doing work on it on weekends. I learned about RV repair and maintenance from that experience. I ended up buying it for myself and I still happily own it today. Here’s what I learned from the overall experience: 1. Never buy a brand new RV. Period. Aside from the value of an overpriced vehicle plummeting as soon as it’s driven off the lot, it’ll need a shakedown cruise of several thousand miles to really work out the issues. Let someone else do that at their expense. 1 (a). Never buy a brand new RV from Camping World. Their lot gates are locked and the only way to see the RVs is to walk through a gauntlet of sales people who have families to feed. They see you coming. Also, Camping World purchases mass-produced junk from the manufacturers. And as we’ve seen here, they don’t care about the customer after the sale. 1 (b). Never buy a brand new RV at the RV show, even if the “SHOW PRICE” sounds really enticing. By all means, go to RV shows when they come to your local fairgrounds or convention center. But only to look. Never to buy. I like to go every couple of years, just to see what’s new on the market. 2. If you’re not going to buy new, then that leaves buying used, right? Right. But before you go shopping on Craigslist or e-Bay, decide what your mechanical skills are. Start with a trip to Amazon and order a copy of Woodall’s RV Owner’s Handbook by Gary Bunzer (You won’t need the latest revision or even a brand new copy). It is important to understand how RV systems work. Arming yourself with knowledge when shopping gives you a leg up when negotiating a purchase price. 2(a). Beware of low-mileage RVs that are more than five years old. I would rather buy a higher mileage RV of the same year model than one with low mileage. A higher mileage RV has been used. Well used RVs tend to be better maintained. Low mileage RVs typically stay parked and neglected for much of the year. 2(b). Don’t judge a tire by its tread. I’ve gone through two sets of tires just because of age, not because of tread depth or other wear. Be prepared to negotiate a discount for having to replace the tires. 3. I’m into motorhomes rather than trailers so I can’t speak for trailers, other than conventional or fifth-wheel. If when considering purchasing an RV, it’s best to understand the Class system. Van type RVs are called Class B. Bus-like RVs are Class A and van cutaways (think U-haul box truck) on the Ford E-series style van chassis are Class C. I own a Class A but I think that the Class C is the most common, the most affordable and the easiest to maintain. 4. I’m going out on a limb here but in my opinion, the absolutely best value in a used motorhome, especially a Class C, is from the used RV department of Cruise America. Yes, they are rentals. Yes, they are high mileage. Yes, they are built mostly by Thor. But aside from peeling the wrap off of them and rebranding them as “Majestic,” Cruise America has also completely gone through them and made them practically brand new. I’ve been to their lot several times. I’m always impressed with the quality, condition and the prices. Worth a look. Thanks for listening.
Agreed. I'm mechanically inclined, did a ton of research and bought a 98 Monaco, mechanical ISC/MD3060, 2 years ago for 1/4 of what that new Thor cost. Haven't regretted it.
"1. Never buy a brand new RV. Period." Can't agree more with you here! We got a 28' 1989 class C gulfstream conquest on a Ford Econoline LTD chassis. No complaints. Maaan, she's sturdy as F.
I just bought a very nice shape and very lightly used 98 Ford Four Winds mobile home the other day. but I got it from a friend had it for about 10 years that he bought from the estate of a deceased guy and needed some break work. But he has been a professional mechanic and licensed motor vehicle inspector. and we have been friends since elementary school over 40 years ago. and i know how he takes care of anything mechanical. so i know i was getting a mechanically sound rv that is 100% road-worthy even tho there are some minor issues with the camper part such as where he had a roof leak a few years ago and repaired it. and some of the plastic latches that hold the hatch doors open were broken. (easy fix at less than $3 each for new ones.) and i know my way around working on RVs and campers' wiring and all the appliances.. But one other good pcs of mind is that even when it hits the 75mile mark and needs the recomended filter change on the tranny and some other things. when its time to do the work all i got to do is call him and he will come do it. for a 6 pack. and he already bought spare parts of it a long time ago so its even got the replacement parts that its still a few road trips away from having to be serviced.
Last year my wife and I purchased a 32 foot travel trailer. It has improved our marriage and we absolutely love it. Sure problems arise here and there but they’re relatively minor. Rv’ing is not for everyone, can’t please everybody. We live in California and we love exploring this great country with all the comforts of home. We don’t miss busy airports and flight delays, filthy hotels and expensive dining costs.
“You can’t please everyone” like the guy who bought the RV was unhappy with the experience of RV’ing. When he wouldn’t know the experience of RV’ing because he RV can’t go anywhere. No one is going to be pleased with an RV you can’t drive anywhere.
Same exact thought. Most lawyers are shameless and will take on any and all plaintiffs if they have the ability to put money in their pocket. Litigation against this industry has absolutely horrible success rates.
I work at a hotel in Elkhart County, Indiana "RV Capital of the World" and have meet so many people who have brought their RV's back to the manufacturer for warranty work on brand new units and were stuck waiting for long periods of time to get the scheduled work completed. Steve is right, they are a nightmare!
I've read that there is a months long wait to get your RV in, then once you bring it, it can be months and months before you get it back. Fixed or not. Obviously a tactic to severely limit the 1 yr warranty fixes you are able to make use of.
@@masada2828I'm from close by. He meant rv manufacturing capital. Lots and lots of factories pumping them things out. It's why lehto mentioned the lawsuits have to happen in South bend with what they signed. Because it was manufactured nearby in Elkhart. For the record. I live close and I'll never go to Elkhart. That place is trash. All of it. Hence they have lawyers in... South bend.
The founder, Chairman, and CEO of Camping World is Marcus Lemonis. He also on a CNBC show The Profit. Back ground check him and watch actual lawsuit depositions involving him and you may not want to buy anything from him.
I saw it. At one point he said he had no knowledge of a certain event happening. The counsel responded you were sent over 100 emails about it. His response I remember recieving the emails from this person but never opened or read the emails.
Twenty years ago, my late wife and I considered buying an RV. Friends of ours, who were more traveled and could afford just about anything, said, you can stay in a lot of nice hotels for the price, upkeep, maintenance, insurance, fuel, fees incurred with an RV. We thought about it, laughed about it, and forgot about it...
@@kmj782 Probably tax break, and then declared all his money on that location a loss, by transferring all the assets out, and all the loss in to it before closing it.
I secured a 1966 MCI retired Greyhound bus fully converted a few years ago. I love it, you can't punch a hole through the sides of it! And the motor is Bulletproof!
As the saying goes, “A fool and his money are soon parted, by an RV Dealership.” Any product that requires such extensive disclaimers is not fit for sale. You shouldn’t even have to read them, just the sheer volume of the disclaimers should put you off. NO SALE!
In fact, one of the disclaimers explicitly says "we do not guarantee that this product is fit for sale", that's what the implied warranty of merchantability is about.
@notme9976 He didn't roll the dice. He signed, handed over 100K, then bent over and said 'ream me'. With a disclaimer like that, you know you're getting screwed.
My wife and I were looking to buy a new RV recently. The first thing we noticed was there were literally NO CUSTOMERS in the RV store. However, there were numerous staff standing around with literally nothing to do. I wondered how these people earned a living working here. After we started looking at the RV's with a salesman, I noticed one thing they all had in common, the material felt like it was cheap and flimsy. I felt as if one of our kids accidently slamed one of the cabinets or the refrigerator door, the door would literally fall right off. The RV's definitely were not "kid proof." I was already mentally checked out by the time we went to put in an offer, but I was looking to see what the numbers looked like more for entertainment value. Once the salesman started adding up all the miscellaneous fees and expenses at the end of the sale, I simply laughed to myself and said "NO WAY!!" As my wife and I were leaving the store, the salesman told us the RV's we were looking at were going to sell quickly, I simply said "that's nice" because I knew they weren't going anywhere.
they were void contracts so it doesnt matter if victim signed them. they were unlawful contracts attempting to waive venue rules and lemon laws. the plaintiff should appeal and next round mention the contracts are void through contract law so any signature doesnt matter. signing void contracts doesnt turn them into valid contracts.any contract attempting to waive other laws is void under contract law.
@@congoparrot thats the point. if you talk the lawyer beforehand then you will know not to buy it in the first place and save yourself a lot of headaches.
I've had my RV for going on 4 years, bought new no issues. I look forward to camping season almost as much as my 5yr olds (they named it Mr. camper). It's slimey industry unfortunately but it's not all doom and gloom.
I've heard that comment too many times. Irritating because it's not true for me or anyone I know who has a boat. If that comment is true for you, please state that and not that it is true for everyone.
@@latetotheparty184 A boat is a hole in the water lined with (wood, metal, plastic - fill in the blank) into which A LOT of money is poured. I heard this statement from a boat owner and it was also my personal experience.
The obvious elephant in the room is: for $100000 + tax and fees, constant maintenance, you could do a lot of very nice touring in a late model car and stay at hotels with money left over when you tire of it or you cannot any longer travel!!
My brother and his wife (retired, are mid 60's) have visited several times in their 28' class C. While they do enjoy the RV, every time they have visited, my brother and I had to do some work on the RV. They just returned to Florida 2 weeks ago where the RV had been for 2 months, when they got there the inside is flooded, luckily only the carpet was totally ruined. Point of the story is, my wife and I are close to retirement and had started looking at RV's to travel with my brother, after looking hard into the current state of the RV industry, (we have owned RV's in the past) we both decided it would be much more enjoyable, (and cheaper) for us to just drive or fly wherever we wanted, stay in nice hotels and eat at nice restaurants. And carry some tools in the trunk to help my brother with the RV. 😊
@@HomesickforAlaska Plus its going to have the expenses of any vehicle, possible storage fees and only used a few times a year. In addition have you checked out the prices of RV parks??? Geez, it can cost more than a motel room!
In a presentation by a lawyer I attended he said that going to Law School was about learning how to read. That stuck with me. My lifetime experience with RV's (4) is that the quality is abysmal. The only way to keep them from falling apart or leaking is to keep them covered and not use them.
This rings very true. After going to law school but working in a non-legal field, I often tell my team: ‘ready to go to law school? Ok, read this contract.’
You can use them you just have to work on them before you leave and again when you get back and usually while your out using them as well but yes keep them under a cover for sure.
@@KatyLiedToMe I passed the International Brotherhood of Electrified Worker's Journeyman's Exam, just by knowing how to read an Index and a Table of Contents, with 45 minutes warning of the test.
I purchased a new RV from Camping World in 2021, and I will admit it was the most impractical purchase I have ever made. The only thing I did that made sense was to pay cash and avoid interest payments. Meanwhile, I've taken many trips with it and my family, including two long distance, cross country trips. The last trip we took was just my son and I, traveling throughout the Canadian Rockies. Those experiences (and memories) are now irreplaceable and priceless. If I never use the camper again, it will have been worth it to me. I will admit I was fortunate and have never had an issue. The camper has performed without any problems. Buying an RV is anything but an investment, unless you consider priceless memories as an investment. I do!
RV dealers are some of the worst creatures on earth these days. I backed out of an RV deal before taking possession once and they turned on me and my wife like nothing live ever seen before. One second they were getting me fresh baked cookies and hot coffee with sprinkles and the next we were trapped in a glass room with a hard sell recovery agent threatening to sue me and bankrupt us in lawyer fees if necessary.
The appropriate response to getting screwed by one of these contracts is a cinder block through the dealership's window with a piece of paper wrapped around it stating "By accepting the delivery of this cinder block through this window, you agree to indemnify and hold harmless its installer for any and all damages and accept that this cinder block carries with it no warranty express or implied. This cinder block is being delivered through your window AS-IS and you wholly accept any consequences thereafter upon receipt."
We looked at toy haulers 4 years ago, wanting to be able to take our Harley with us. The retro ones were really cute, but only had a red stripe on the outside and black and white checked flooring on the inside. Everything else was the same as any other trailer and they wanted $60,000 for a 24'. All the trailers were so cheap. We went to Interstate trailers in Salem Oregon, purchased a 26 ft enclosed with a ramp, chalk for the motorcycle, some tie downs, heavy duty locks and put a window in the door. We took the covid years, put in a Murphy bed, a row of used lockers, built shelves on the opposite wall with tables that are hinged, so they can fold up and keep the things on the shelves from falling. We haul our own water, have a compostable toilet and a ton of solar. We will never have to fix anything. We are in heaven
I often wonder about the safety of an RV, especially in an accident. Years ago while driving OTR, l ran across an eerie scene early in the morning. There was a long debris field in the median of interstate 25 in Wyoming. The debris was comprised of small pieces with a few larger ones mixed in. At the end of the debris field sat a chassis with four wheels attached. A steering wheel column was sticking up with a steering wheel still on it. That is all that remained of an RV, which had crashed and rolled!
As a current RV owner, and having owned many other RVs is the past, I am qualified to comment on this subject. In order to be a successful RV owner you must have one of two things: 1. extensive mechanical ability and wherewithal, or 2. DEEP pockets. All RVs have problems, regardless of make, model, age, mileage, etc... ALL OF THEM to one degree or another, especially new ones. So you must be prepared to fix it yourself or pay big dollars for someone else to fix it. That is why I only buy used, never new. Used RVs have generally already revealed their problems and someone else has paid to fix them. Also, I only buy certain brands, based on their reputation among RVing enthusiasts, and my personal brand preferences. But all of that is besides the number one reason why I am an RVer, and that is the memories and experiences camping with my family, which are priceless. Did I spend a small fortune on my RVs? Yes. Did I experience mechanical issues? Yes. Was it a sound financial decision? OF COURSE NOT. But I wouldn't give up one single memory I made with my family in exchange for all the RV related headaches I have endured.
I am looking to buy a class c motor home. I am 50 and selling my home to live in the rv and travel the country. Which brands do you recommend and which should I stay away from? I don't plan on buying new, and looking for minimum 30' and less than 50k miles.
I basically built my own. I bought a 1989 Class C on a Chevy Chassis and immediately gutted it. During the build, all plumbing and electrical, except for the GM wiring original to the chassis, was done as if it was for a "stick built" house. It hasn't given me a lick of trouble.
are RVs built on diesel platforms not reliable? Is there not some RV brand that had a compareable longevity and reliability to the way most people thinkg of Toyotas? Or a 1970s Mercedes when they were built like tanks? I ammmmm curious. Have never owned! Would like to be able to afford a premium fifth wheel setup one day, like a diesel f-350 dually fifth wheel living trailer. Only because I always have heard excellent things about the reliability and longevity of diesel things.
That's why I stay at state parks. I'm not letting a campground force me into a purchase. Private campgrounds have gotten just like amusement parks, they have priced out the regular family that just wants to get away for a weekend.
*some* have that rule to keep people from dragging their junk in. Even ones that have that rule in place will generally only enforce it if your RV looks like a wreck.
depends on the RV and the location. there have been cases for example where massive road closure on highway, police are doing their best to get blankets food and water to different cars in the area, and one RV owner offers to let the police use their RV as "a base camp". there are people with luxury RV's that are just massive... hauled by 18 wheelers... perfect example was the Featherlite Country Estate Villa, 3 horse, 53' trailer... with 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms massive slide out, connecting hall to the horse stables, pull out saddle racks. then... theres the Unimogs.. Unimog expedition vehicle, police look at those and wonder if they need anti-tank weapons LOL.
There are also tactics that the salesperson has like: "I have another appointment in 10 minutes, let me get the paperwork together to complete your purchase". Then they walk out of the office for a few minutes and later wave you out of the office and down the hall to a small cocktail table with no chairs and sets the contract down for you to sign and makes a statement like "let's see if we can get this in before the contracts department leaves for the day". This makes the customer feel like it would be rude to demand that they sit down and read the entire agreement. I hope some states make these kinds of tactics illegal.
NEVER let them make you, the customer, feel rushed or that you are taking up their time....that is their job. If they want the sale, you should feel respected and given all the time you need to feel comfortable with your purchase. Until customers start expecting to be treated properly, or they walk out, this will not change. We hold ALL the cards. They want our money. We do not owe them anything. The dealer must EARN our business. All it takes is the customers being willing to walk away. They cannot stay in business if more customers would use the power they have.
Since 2015...the quality dive bombed. If you're going to buy one, get a WELL BUILT OLDER RV. I've got a 36' Winnebag Vectra Diesel pushed. It's been AWESOME! NO problems inside, outside or with engine or frame. COULDN'T be happier!!! BTW... it's a 1998 with all reciepts and records of anything and everything ever done to our unit since it rolled off the assembly line. Truly built very well and still looks new!
I saw an interview with the CEO of a RV manufacturer. He was speaking of someone that 'only' paid $200,000 for an RV that turned out to be trash. The CEO said they only paid $200,000! He went on to ask 'what do they expect for only $200,000.'
Did you vote for Biden? Is Austin still really Texas? Is it the vaccine doing this to you? I'd LOVE to pay ONLY $200,000 if the RV normally retails for over $1 million!
in 2010 my wife kinda flipped out on me when I decided to restore my 1972 Dodge Midas class C Motorhome (with my side job money). She said I was wasting my time on and o'l piece of junk and,I'd never finish it anyway. She was almost right. I spent so much time and money divorcing her and fighting over the house, I almost didn't get it done. However in 2022 I drove it off my property for the first time since 2004 ( i bought it in 1993). At 52 yrs. old it looks like new. I did a complete ground up resto all by myself for $6,000 (and a million dollars worth of labor, lol). She is as solid as a rock and climbs the Colorado hills like a Mountain Goat with a fresh mopar 360. I get compliments everywhere I go and my kids love driving it ( and telling their mon about how nice it drives, lol). It's small with single wheel axle in the rear. I love driving it to the lake for the day etc. I used it yesterday in Jan for a daytrip to the state park. i LOVE THIS OL' THING! I'm sure glad I kept it, and dumped that ol' Nag of a wife :)
Looking for a motor home back in 2008, seen one for sale a 1978 Apache Dodge motor home for $1800.00 Went and look at it, 72,000 on ODM 400 CID The man said it got horrible gas milage, probably 6 miles to the gal. going down hill. Pulled off the dog house, put in gear, moved it 100' bought it on the spot! Wife came out and handed her $1800.00, she ask me why that hood was off of the engin ??? I said please sighn the title!!!, I just wanted to hear the engin run... Her and him sighn the title over, went and got 5 gals of gas, drove it off their property........ My Nephew ask me why is the dog house off...I told him see that PTO shaft turing? They had it in 4 wheel drive, I adj the linkage on the road, put in drive, had it ever since... where can you get a 4 wheel drive motor home for less than $2000.00 😃 😀 😄
Glad you're enjoying the fruits of your labor. The other benefit of a restoration is if anything goes wrong, you know better than anyone how to fix it.
My dad bought a new RV in 1976. We took a month long trip from Ohio to California and back in it. As soon as we got home dad listed the RV for sale and sold it before the first payment was due.
@@bend8353 I was 5, I have no idea how much it cost. And I have no idea if RV rentals were a thing in SW Ohio in the mid-70s. I rented one in 2013 and it was a 200 mile round trip from Cincinnati to Richmond, IN to pick it up and drop it off.
My dad did things like that all the time in the early 1970's. I was older and he told me he bought low and resold for a profit. Tents, pop up trailers, etc. Saved on storage and wear and tear from not using it in the Michigan winter.
@@cathyhogue3693 Bought low and resold for a profit? I guess that works when it does, but most things like that never resell for more than you paid unless you are always looking for deals and desperate people.
Interesting, a dealer sold my parents Jamboree for the same price they paid for it new. Parents sold it back at like 65% of purchase price. It worked fine and we just weren’t using it as a family anymore. Purchased in ‘77 sold back in ‘82.
The vast majority of people who spend outragious amounts on an RV end up using them a few weeks a year, and the rest of the time they sit and depreciate in their driveway. My wife and I thought, "Oh! We're going to do a ton of traveling, month long trips, and even when we're not doing that we will take off every weekend!" Right! Maybe could have done that twenty or thirty years ago! Now, even Forest Service campgrounds want reservations months in advance. Every place is crowded, even boondocking areas! Spontaneity is non existant! Not to mention that it eats you out of house and home between gas, maintenance and constant repairs of something! Fridge stops working! Laminate coming loose! Tank sensors! What's wrong with the heater? Gen won't start! We have all this luxury and find ourselves pining for the good old days with a Coleman stove, a couple of sleeping bags and a tent! Finally, as much as we love being "out there", our life is here. Need to paint the shed, clean the gutters, mow the lawn, plan the grandkids birthday party, repair the porch rail, go to the doctor, plant that tree that she wants, clean the bird boxes, chop the firewood! Always something! "Yeah! Can't go this week! Maybe next week!" You think buying a new car is a bad investment? Spend $150,000.00 on and RV!! My advice, rent first. Then, if you really have to have one, buy used. And know ahead of time, you ain't gonna use it as much as you think.
My parents bought a motorhome a few decades ago with the intent of taking all their grandchildren to Disneyland Ca. from Portland Or. It only made it to Northern Ca. before the transmission went out. Two other cars were following when they all stayed in a Motel for a week until it was decided the unit had to be towed back to Portland. The dealer (of course) refused to be responsible along with the manufacturer. It received 2 more transmissions before it had 4000 miles and they sold it.
2 week old motor home and the engine quits, 2 month old Boeing and the door pops out. America and all its cost cutting on everything has made it to where we can't make ANYTHING worth a darn anymore. It's insane....and sad.
@@gomahklawm4446 But have you seen what us hot rod shops are getting for street rods these days? People are starting to appreciate craftsmanship and cars from before they became appliances.
Basically, It is almost impossible to manufacture in the U.S. EPA, OSHA , DEI, Taxes, And a whole lot more. The result is a massive overhead, Cost cutting is a necessity and quality goes out the door.@@gomahklawm4446
It is because the RV Manufacturers have purchased "protective legislation" in their "home states" that make it near impossible to get any claim against them.
Nothing about this has anything to do with "protective legislation", even if the forum selection clause wasn't in the agreement the RV dealer still would have won. The purchaser simply didn't take the time to understand the agreement they were signing, they agreed to purchase the RV with no warranty of merchantability or fitness for purpose and this is the result.
Please explain the process of buying laws. I keep hearing about this being done, the politicians seem to be getting rich, yet the very people who should be stopping this, the voters and the press, never catch it. You seem to know, please share.
@@tissuepaper9962has nothing to do with the dealer. The rv was manufactured in Indiana. If you want to sue the manufacturer you have to do it on their home turf.
@@nunyabidness3075 The ones I saw were gossip about stocks or high stakes bets between business owners and politicians, during golf matches and poker games.
Late last summer we had an RV sales place show up in town in a parking lot - “Clickit RV”. I posted Steve’s “Don’t buy an RV” video on their pages - never got blocked faster than by their admin. POOF, they’re gone now.
Thank you thank you,I’ve lived in rvs for pretty much 30 years now and I see how much the quality has plummeted,they’re just garbage but you can’t tell people that .Because of my finances I’ve always bought older models,thank goodness. I now live in a beautiful 2006 wilderness advantage 38’ all aluminum frame…..bought it for $22,000 with extended warranty. A friend of mine paid 78,000 cougar my god nothing but problems right from day one…..awesome channel,thank you..Carolyn 😊
Camping World has a lot of scams that the general public need to avoid. I would never buy anything there, much less a RV. Bought my Thor Van through La Mesa, they have honored all warranties with no issues. Choose your dealerships wisely. More people need to hear about Camping World and their Shady business practice.
@@nobody3120zX My own experience, I feel they did great with the build and the various equipment it has installed, has been packed nice and tight. I've done alot of research and van searching. Zion edition for example, I feel that Thor did great with packing in more features and creature comforts then the others. Certainly like many other van builds, has some minor issues but nothing that can't be fixed in 1 service visit(scheduled next week). Gone winter camping, rain camping and it's been super awesome with family in tow. Absolutely will do it again if I had to choose Thor. Again, this is my opinion from a owner. I've owned several Travel Trailers, this is my first Van/RV ever.
@JoseMendoza-gq1bx Thanks I'm a homeless marine veteran that just got awarded disability payments, it comes out to about 44k a year tax free. Would I be able to afford a vehicle such as the Thor? I looked online they look very pricey Any suggestions would be appreciated
I'm baffled by this. The thing that gets me is that ANYONE can check online, the quality of nearly ANYTHING. I can find out about a $20 battery charger, a $100 drill... yet someone buying a $100K RV doesn't do a background check. Word of mouth is so powerful, yet this still happens.
I've found it interesting over the last few decades that individuals who appear to have sub-90 IQ's are often inexplicably awash in cash, blow money on some of the most idiotic things imaginable, never have to worry about being broke, everything seems to fall into place for them, while other individuals I've seen who are the smartest people I know personally are struggling financially no matter how hard they work. If you think that it's hilarious that someone buying a $100,000 RV can't be bothered to check out anything online, now factor in the housing market for the last decade-plus, where thousands upon thousands of just-hit-the-housing-lottery morons abandon the state they just destroyed (California, for example) and buy up whatever housing they can get their hands on in their new home town of wherever, not bothering to see if the local housing prices are actually insanely overpriced for what's there (where Californians move to with their housing lottery money), displacing the locals who often can't afford to spend a tenth of what current housing prices are. The end result? I don't think I'm stupid enough to be rich.
I agree. I'm not in the US have no interest in RVs but I'm always getting UA-cam stories pop up about these horror stories. Mind you spending all the money on an Aluminium turd hauler, especially if you borrow to do it, boggles my mind anyway.
Its got to be retirees which is why there are RV dealers plastered all over rural Florida. Its seems like once you escape the southeast U.S., this is a dying industry.
As someone who makes his living working on RVs, just know this: They all have problems. Some big, some small, but problems, they have. The trick is to find the worst of those before the warranty is up and have the manufacturer fix them. The whole reason I got into this line of work is because I've spent so much time working on my own, and got so good at unscrewing what the Camping Worlds and other "repair shops" screwed up, that I figured I just might be able to help others actually enjoy the lifestyle. When I was in the Navy we had a saying: "If it ain't one thing, it's TWO!". That goes for RVs, because I don't care if you paid $5k for a used travel trailer or $3 million for a custom hand built Prevost, it's got problems. Sadly, all of the builders know it, and hope that you own it long enough that it's your problem, not theirs.
The problem with this case was that the contract which was signed had language that had the buyer give up any warranty claims. So, when the plaintiff filed for relief, the judge dismissed the case because, per the contract, they had signed away any claim of warranty protection.
My father had a wise philosophy regarding RVs, boats and other recreational vehicles.... RENT them. This makes the owner responsible for maintenance, depreciation, storage, and all other expenses they incur.
they were void contracts so it doesnt matter if victim signed them. they were unlawful contracts attempting to waive venue rules and lemon laws. the plaintiff should appeal and next round mention the contracts are void through contract law so any signature doesnt matter. signing void contracts doesnt turn them into valid contracts.any contract attempting to waive other laws is void under contract law.
Indiana is one of only two states that intelligently doesn't participate in the madness known as daylight savings time (DST). Or at least it used to not do that. Everyone else, however, is utterly insane. And Indiana is a nice state with lots of open land. I'd call it quintessential Midwestern. Imagine what you can do with breathable, fresh air that might have a hint of livestock from the farm a mile up the road. Indiana also hosts the Indy 500 but Indianapolis is its own urban hellscape. You know what state doesn't usually make international news? Indiana. Florida, on the other hand, shows up in headlines daily with some naked crocodile-riding dude at a McDonald's _not_ on drugs.
@@privacyvalued4134 gary indiana is one of worst places in usa. completely ethnically cleansed. scortched earth nothing left alot of the places up that area are like that detroit and chicago. inner city indianpolis isnt much different. these cities have been and are ravaged by foreign officials who launder money then buy into corporations with share holding and then pummel usa economy. of course i dont know for sure. it does look like it though. if they CAN then they probably will, no laws block them from doing so.
I'm so glad you added, "If you want to buy a new one." There is a massive difference between older RVs and late model ones. My 1998 National Tradewinds is so solid and beautiful that I sold my sticks 'n' bricks ❤
Lots of campgrounds will not let you bring in a RV older than 10 years because they sometimes abandoned. National long ago went bankrupt and you can't buy the parts they made-body, interior, etc. It will cost you a fortune if you break down and even worse if you hit a low hanging tree and can't get a windshield or body parts to repair. You would be better off driving a 1998 Ford Taurus and staying at B&B's.
@@daviddesmond2143it’s true Re: campgrounds. If enough people stop buying new junk-the private campgrounds will be forced to change. Some campgrounds will accept older models “subject to approval” and you send in photos and some manager approves or rejects it.
But also-best thing that happened to me. I didn’t actually want to spent $90 after tax to stay there. State national and county campgrounds do not have such rules
Coworker who has had several nice RV _buses_ told me never buy a new RV. If you do... offer maybe 60% of the asking price, cuz that's what it will be worth as soon as you buy it. MUCH worse than depreciation on autos.
I actually sat there and read the contract when i joined the Marine Corp. The staff sgt behind the desk kept clearing his throat. When I looked up he seemed irritated. I read the whole thing as he turned red. It occurred to me that I must have been the only person to ever read the contract.
@@marktapley7571you.may be a us soldier but your assigned to wherever they deploy. On a bad day your in the back of a cargo pla e (c 130), in route to a classified location. I used to carry a compass with me and try to guess the destination.
But what’s the alternative? You can’t install software or sign up for Netflix or do anything these days without giant legal agreements put in your face. There’s no way to read and understand them all. People agree to terms put in front of them all the time; we’ve gotten a “legal document fatigue” from all this nonsense.
easier said than done - if you want to product, you sign it. What im not understanding - why would you want to sue Camping World anyway??? Sue the manufacturer ....
Thank You, I was looking to buy a new RV, now that I see how one-sided things have become, there is no way in hell I would ever trust any of these companies.
A few years ago while we were spending the winter in the Gulf Shores area, we derided to stop at a Camping World just to kill some time. We wanted to walk out onto the lot to check out some of the RV's and were told we needed to have a sales person with us. I have been high pressured by some pretty good people at different dealerships but the guy who was with us gave new meaning to the phrase high pressure. We have been RV'rs for many years so we know quite a bit about the products. Under no circumstance will we ever walk into a Camping World store again.
I have a 12 person ozark trail tent that my neighbor gave me for free and I have a blast every time I use it 😂 I’ve had so many toys in the past and so many problems with said toys that I’ve learned to get back to basics and enjoy the time with my wife and kids instead of chasing warranties and dumping thousands of dollars on shiny garbage.
Just one reason why I didn't buy a New RV. My wife and I were at Big Tent in Quartzite, Az and asked that a few things on Contract be changed and they would not make any changes, this was 135K RV. We walked away.
I bought a used car recently and while doing the paperwork I was given a form agreeing to the warranty. A few minutes several forms later the guy hands me a form to sign that agreed that there was no warranty and the car was being sold as is. I confronted him and he said," oh, there is a warranty, that form doesn't mean anything". I didn't sign the form.
I "Revoked the Acceptance" of my wife after I found out someone else was using her Widget, and not only did I not get my money back, it cost me a truckload more.
I built custom truck beds and used to build livestock and horse trailers. The quality that was demanded was not the level of quality I expect of myself as welder. I had coworkers that were on drugs while working, their quality wasn't very good. But they all passed QC. None of my beds ever came back for rework, and we built them all from scratch individually (one person built a truck bed start to finish). I quit after 2 years because I became the most experienced person on the floor due to high turnover, was a pseudo foreman, and was only gonna get a 50 cent raise. I've been a welder for decade and was making 20$ an hour having to fabricate and weld. I will stand my work, but I won't stand behind the company. I started my own business as I want to get away from working for businesses who think welders deserve the same pay as fast food workers. In the RV market, it used be heavily dominated by the Amish for workers (which I'm familiar with as there a Winnebago manufacturing place close enough to me). But now it's a lot of uneducated people and often bussed in illegal immigrants. Regardless of your stance on illegal immigration, know that the government relies on illegal immigration due to lobbys of corporations who want basically slave labor to cut cost ls and make the largest profit. It won't go away, a wall won't stop this because companies want them. They don't want to pay for quality workers and our larger economy and social issues shows this (like the child labor aspect). It's a race to the bottom.
People are not educated or skilled enough because guys like you who claim to know so much won't take the time to teach them because you're too scared they take those skills and not have to depend on you anymore. You use that knowledge as a form of control of others. The more you teach others to be self sufficient the less the corporations will have control over YOU. Cheers.
Much of what you say is true. The best thing you could have done is start your own business. I did the same thing. What I found out when we grew though is by hiring cheap expendable labor it cost us in the long run by having to constantly look for replacements , training them, and having poor work. I quickly found if we had a good person who did good work, paying them more than the prevailing wage and keeping them was far cheaper in the long run and built customers . I doubt I'm the only business owner who has come to this conclusion.
They insist that Americans finish school or college or trade school… Americans allow all they are doing to happen. We spend to much time hating each other, a different religions…
Non RV owner but I follow people who do it full time and its a tremendously interesting subject / dream to have. Best policy is to buy a smartly chosen older ( but not too old ) rig, of a genuinely well regarded brand that was not cheap back in its day, that you have taken care to have inspected well. Do any work it needs ( or it'll cost you more later ) and modify it to be up to date regarding power supply and thus have autonomy / freedom from camp sites. On the point of modification / improvement, if a rig is still under warranty it can be restrictive against modification or be void. Also to be tied to certain dealers or repair centres for warranty work, which won't suit if the rig is to be your home and you're going around the country 'chasing 70'. Thus in this regard, its better to have an older rig and just be resigned to taking any repairs or replacements yourself. As you're paying a fraction of the price new then you're off to a good start. Another important guiding principle is serviceability. E.g. A class A might look slick but you give yourself horrendous hassle and expense to get anything done to it. Whereas a class C chassis and motor section can typically be seen just as most other trucks/vans. Also avoid buying from a manufacturer that constructs its house without a care to service and replacement situations. You need to be able to work on it ! If anyone wants any advice on any subject, do not hesitate to contact me. I know everything and I'm always right.
I went to school for network security. The #1 thing they drilled into us. Read all your contracts (Terms of service is a contract) If you have questions about any of it, or if you don't understand something in it. DO NOT ACCEPT IT! contracts are deigned to protect the person asking you to sign it. Rarely do they EVER protect the person who is signing.
This is how I feel about rental agreements and most employment opportunities. (You're painted into a legal corner you can't get out of by everyone willing to offer any contract ... but unlike a RV, everyone has to live and work somewhere) The corporate structure has so manipulated the laws that it feels almost impossible for a regular person to get reasonable concessions on contracts. If you lose your job: rent is still due no matter what, for the whole term of the lease. If you are a stellar employee and performing well above others, your employer can welcome you at the door on a Tuesday and say "You don't work here any more." ... and you have no legal recourse UNLESS YOU can prove you were fired due to a protected category. Companies are so concerned with protecting themselves from any liability at all that they're screwing over almost every person who lives in the US. Courts can't fix that ... but legislatures should limit contracts where one class of parties is extremely favored.
Should, but won't - because who is going to donate huge sums of money to their "campaign fund"? Not the retired person who wants to cruise the country - in which case, I *might* recommend a VW pop-top camper. We had a 1978, bought it in 1979, drove it until we had one more kid than there were seat belts.
Wow, thank you. I was looking at buying a Ford Transit van and slowly converting into a camping van then I went back to researching Class C. After this I'm sticking to buying a van. Thank you!
I came to that same conclusion with my boat after 11,000.00 engine replacement 3 months out of warranty because I only take it out to the lake between 6 and 8 times a year during the summer. My RV on the other hand I purchased with 5,000 miles on it in 2020 but it’s a 2018 Thor Venesian 40a Diesel pusher I use it probably 25 to 30 times a year just put 5500 miles on it in one trip last July when I traveled from NC where I live to California but I average 10,000 miles on it most years, I use it to go to car shows at Myrtle Beach and Carlisle Pennsylvania a few times a year and to drag race at mostly local tracks so for me a rental wouldn’t be feisable because I live in a small town and would have to drive at least an hour to rent it and sometimes I go to drag races with only a few days planned ahead of time, if your only taking it out less than 10 times a year and plan well in advance a rental is probably your best option. Mine was built pre covid but I still have to do repairs after most long trips but I do the repairs myself because I don’t want it sitting in repair shops for months at a time. My family and myself love RVing and our RV, this is my second RV that I have owned and I would suggest buying used because I didn’t on my first one and lost money big time when I sold it two years later although it was in great condition and well maintained.
But rental agreements can be fairly onerous as well. It seems like everyone is doing tricky, uneven contracts now. We need more consumer protections, such as banning required binding arbitration, class action prohibitions, and pre-agreeing on an alternative venue other than the consumer's own county.
@@jamespoole9839 True.. RV.. translation three letters.. DIY, to enjoy for purpose desired.. Happiness is reasonable expectation, if DIY is the motto.. :)
I was caught in the same trap. Purchased a camper that was falling apart in less than 2 year. The warrantee on the roof did not happen to cover the skylight (plastic) that was on the roof and started leaking. Camper filled with water while stored during the off-season. Did the manufacturer cover anything for the 7 year roof guarantee? Nope.
Last one - I think it's also very funny that when someone buys a house, they act like it's a big purchase. Maybe consult an accountant or a lawer, a financial planner etc. But when they buy an RV they treat it like getting a laptop from Walmart.
That's not a lot different from other homes, even if you get a guarantee in writing there is no actual guarantee. I know, i did real estate for a year, everything is about TRUST. Some people are trustworthy, and many are not. Buyer beware!
Just treat it good and you should be fine. Store it in dry storage. If you full time, buy a higher end model like an Arctic Fox. I have a budget Arctic Wolf 311ML and in two years the only problems I have had were electrical which was my fault because of the wiring when putting in new batteries and panels. When full time, make sure the top of the unit is under a tarp if you will be in a sunny area like AZ in the winter.
When I last bought a car the sales guy was getting impatient with me waiting to sign. I finally told him I wasn't about to sign a contract without reading every word and assuring myself I know what it means.
I usually just ask them if they'd like me to take the contract home and read it at my leisure. That will almost always shut them up since they don't want to take a chance that somebody more knowledgable than you will see it before you sign it.
In 2013 we decided to sell everything and RV the US. We bought a 30 ft 2007 Alumalite trailer with slide out for $12,500 that had never been used, had all the stickers still on everything. I knew I wanted a real bathtub, so we bought this model because it had a split rear, bunkhouse/bath with the bunkhouse slightly wider than the bath so we could tear out the bunks and put in an acrylic slipper tub, and a Splendide washer dryer that we plumbed through the wall and under the bathtub/shower in the bathroom. Our 10 water heater could heat with both electric and propane at the same time, 10 gallons of scalding hot water every seven minutes, so plenty for the tub. We took out the stove/oven that was only good for burning cookies and got a used Fisher/paykel dishwasher drawer and put a propane cooktop on top of it. Got a deluxe toaster oven that worked way better. Found a great used Ford Excursion V 10 4x4.( still have it!) Then bought used Thousand Trails membership! Traveled many wonderful years pretty much trouble free with dishwasher, washer dryer and bubble baths.
Maybe consumers just need to be smarter about their purchases? You can’t expect the government to jump in each time people are making big purchases and don’t do their due diligence. Government regulations have their place, of course, but in these RV situations can be avoided by just reading and taking the time to understand what you’re reading. Don’t be a sucker and expect Biden to bail you out.
@@sulblazer you literally making excuses to allow business entities to skirt consumer protection laws, by creating an entire industry with these contracts, with the idea you can just not buy from us, but the problem is they are all doing it, creating a oligopoly where two or more companies control the market, none of which can keep the others from having significant influence, im no lawyer, or versed in these laws, but i would assume it is illegal, but you must challenge it before it can be fixed.
Steve, I’m curious as to your definition of an RV?
Let's just go with the one from Wikipedia: "A recreational vehicle, often abbreviated as RV, is a motor vehicle or trailer that includes living quarters designed for accommodation. Types of RVs include motorhomes, campervans, coaches, caravans, fifth-wheel trailers, popup campers, and truck campers".
A bus with a dooky bucket 😂
@@stevelehtoThank you very much. I thought maybe you were just stating motorhomes.
not to be confused with SUV
I saw an accident where a SEMI hit an RV that was towing an SUV. After seeing that accident I knew that I would NEVER own one. It exploded like a pigeon being hit by a high speed train.
If the contract includes the words"Camping World"...tear it up and RUN for the door!
Nailed it😂😂😂😂
It doesn't matter, most of them are just as bad as camping world
Or a vehicle with the name of Thor
Nailed it, their mark up and service is 💩. They make you feel guilty for going in for maintenance under warranty.
True. Camping World sucks.
I just (3 weeks ago) had a job interview with a _very_ high end RV manufacturer in Oregon. There's only one very high end RV maker in Oregon, so a Google search will tell you which one it is. During the interview they kept saying how important it was to get everything absolutely _perfect._ To make their point, they showed me a 9"x11" mirror that had a pinhole flaw in the silvering that had been discarded because it wasn't perfect. When we finally got around to talking about pay, they said they started at $16 an hour and raises were between $0.10 and $0.50 per year. Minimum wage in Oregon is currently $14.20. When they called me a week later to formally offer me the job, I said no thanks, Taco Bell is offering $17.50 to start.
hey those are the tag-axle bus chassis unit Willie Nelson ones off the Five! Seven figures! Yay!
To be fair, many (all?) employers do that. I saw a job posting for a senior-level software developer that required an active security clearance and many years of DoD industry experience. It was a salaried position with a range (in Colorado they must post a salary range) that started below minimum wage and ended just under twice minimum wage. But the job listing specifically stated that no candidate would be offered a salary at or near the top of the range.
This is the WORST part about many companies these days. They don't even understand WHAT the competitive wages are especially with how bad inflation has been. If you're paying anything below $15 an hour to an adult, you aren't paying a livable wage. After taxes you are talking about taking home around $2k a month, even with a mortage of 500 bucks I'm still paying up 1400-1500 in expenses WITHOUT a car every month. Now imagine if I had a car or I was renting? Yea, that's over $2 grand a month. I'm also in a bottom 10 cost of living state too so just imagine if I weren't.
What someone offers for pay is not something bad, they have done nothing wrong, only if you decide to work there and are unhappy with that pay has anyone done something wrong, and its you, for accepting that offer. If they pay crap wages they will get crap employees, or none at all. They have to have people, so it will fix itself
I’d take the manufacturing job for less money because I wouldn’t last an hour in a fast food joint.
When I bought my last vehicle I sat in the sales managers office and read the contract thoroughly and the sales manager became impatient with me. I said sir, you want me to spend this large sum of money, I'm certainly going to read what I'm signing. Before I accepted delivery of the vehicle at the dealership and signed off on it I did a thorough walk around, checked every feature and took it for a test drive. Then I signed the documents. They were upset at this as well. I said I know my rights and I will not sign for anything without reading it first and understand what I'm agreeing to or accepting. Now it wasn't hours, but it did take me 20 minutes before signing the sales contract and about an hour testing the vehicle. More people need to do this.
Oh, I would have spend the whole entire day. They want my money and I want the best for my money. They have nowhere else to go anyway..lol.
I love taking more time to read when someone complains that I'm reading instead of just signing.
I would walk out the second they copped any attitude.
If I came across any bullshit, they would have to grovel to get me to consider following through.
That is why I am happy owning old used stuff. Because if I am going to overpay for new, and on top of that, pay sales taxes to feed a corrupt state government that grows like a cancer on taxpayer money, that shit better come to me on a stick!
@@jy9291 I keep my stuff forever. I only bought a vehicle because the other was 20 years old and had 300K on it. The interior was done and the body was done.
Did you ask your Government Agency to crash one or two for you or did you ask your insurance agency for a Homeowners Policy on the structure?
They'd both have a good laugh at your expense.
When you said Camping World, that's all I needed to hear.
When he said Thor, that was all I needed to hear...
Well I can’t afford a house so……..
Yea Stellantis, Thor, camping world ❌❌❌
Three of the most garbage laden companies out there. I won’t even buy TP at Camping World.
Exactly. In the '70s CW was a convenient (for some) source that rarely had any competition. It has evolved into another bastion of overpriced, half-baked products that rarely have more value than their packaging. The nicest part of visiting a store is being told to take a flying leap as soon as you close your wallet.
If I ever saw a contract with as much bold and underlined print as that one has I'd laugh and walk away no matter how much I wanted what they were selling
I'd have some fun with them instead. When handed the paper to sign, I'd tell them I have to take it home to read it before I sign it. Next day I'd call them and say I stopped at another dealer on the way home and found another RV I like better. Sorry, but the deal's off.
Absolutely, I don't need anything THAT bad. I refused to sign a home solar contract for less than that. I'm sick and tired of these contracts that don't have a single thing in my favor. The way they're written in the first person (I understand this, I agree to that) as if I wrote it really turns me off.
I would have walked out 😮
Yep, that’s a red flag that you were going to get screwed!
@@mortanicus5871
Courts generally won't uphold such one-sided contracts which are presented in a "take it or leave it" fashion with no allowance for the less powerful party to negotiate, ESPECIALLY when the side which had the contract pre-written is a business and the side presented with "you have to accept this agreement for this transaction" is a private individual or homeowner.
These are generally held to be "unconscionable" as no reasonable person negotiating a contract would accept such terms.
Bought a brand new Winnebago recently for $150K. Was my wife’s choice, not mine. Absolutely the worst POS quality and workmanship I’ve ever witnessed in my life.
How do they get away with it is what I don't understand.
@@pamlove421 they get away with it because people continue to purchase new RVs and sign these ridiculous contracts. It won't stop until people stop doing those things. We live in the age of instant access to information. The internet is littered with RV groups, bulletin boards, UA-cam videos, Facebook pages that describe the horror stories of these RVs and the contracts. There's no excuse that people looking to purchase these things shouldn't be informed walking in the door.
We shouldn't have to enact laws to protect people from their own stupidity and laziness.
Tell the children the legend of the Winnebago Man
it was your choice not to overrule and say no to your wife.
Aftermarket hyper drive is a bad idea on Winnebagos.
In Finland and in the EU you cannot sign away rights you have under the consumer protection law.
Yeah . I'm European and was wondering how this contract would be legal. 😅
This is USA, the worlds largest casino, you get sick you go broke and lose your house and die
The USA is currently experiencing an uncontrollable late-stage capitalist dystopia.
In the US the corporations rule. So they "lobby" the politicians to make sure the law is always in their favor.
Same in Brazil.
$99K buys a lot of nights in a motel!
495 hotel rooms. Plus time. If a room is available. Camper pays for itself by not getting a hotel room.
@@mattdelany6799 495 nights sounds about right. At 60 nights per year that's about 8 years. But for the RV: Storage, maintenance, insurance, gas, large repair bills. To each his own, fair enough, but definitely not for me.
@@james-pif you live in it, it will pay for itself in 2 years.
I just made this point to a dog friend. People buy an RV for the lifestyle, not because it’s economical. About 500 rooms in a hotel (not counting operating expenses).
@@mattdelany6799 Definitely not for me! lol. But I guess some folks like to retire in them.
When a motor vehicle comes with a no-warranty disclaimer *in bold and underlined* on the front page of the contract, you might want to just walk away… 😵💫
The sad truth is that no one reads those documents at signing. When people sign with me, I have had zero out of thousands of people who read every word. People will get just a brief overview at most. This is a a form regarding warranty, signsl here..., and people do it. Really, they should have a lawyer at their side for closing just like a house.
@@MrThe1234guy Probably don't realise your statutory rights can be signed away.
Oh, yeah! Walk away with their pen in your pocket, if possible.
This wouldn't be allowed here in Australia.
You sell a product, you need to back with appropriate warranty
exactly, but some idiots goes in this shit and later complain
Nothing screams quality like a document that states your purchase has no warrantee.
Same as the stuff they jab into people’s arms.
@@johncassani6780Eh, those campers are not that bad. 😂
Same warranty you get when purchasing a used car, which is "no warranties / as-is" sale from a used car dealer.
@@beepbop6697 Of course, but these are brand new. There is no good reason to not offer a warrantee, unless they know that these RV's are junk. As soon as I saw the literature that states no warrantee and as-is, I would have wadded that paper up, placed it in my pocket, and walked out without a word. That is a horrible way to do business.
Ok. I do have to defend the RV industry just a smidge here. People want a house you can drive down the road at 60 mph and have everything work all of the time for less than $100,000. Yes, they were built better in the 80's, and early 90's so what has changed? Steel. You could buy the quality steel needed at an affordable price because the U.S. used to manufacture steel in a town called... Gary, IN... and you can look up how Gary was destroyed economically. Now they have to import the steel and overseas companies claim it is the same "quality", but it isn't. It just isn't. The proof is in everything made after 2000.
I’m a retired Prosecutor and Judge and I always read contracts before I sign. Clauses I don’t like I scratch out. I have walked away from purchases in which my scratch-outs were refused. You have to be prepared to do so or later on, you may be sorry when the item you purchased turns out to be faulty. As a Judge I have had to enforce terrible contract clauses signed by purchasers. I always ask, “didn’t you read that contract before you signed it? The answers were mostly “no”. The last time I walked away from a purchase was in 2001, on the closing date for my present house, when the mortgage contained provisions that allowed the mortgagor to invade our privacy by having a right to inspect our house with or without cause. It wasn’t more than a few hours before the sales agent had a better mortgage contract prepared for us.
I like your handle. :) Saw the Moody Blues live in concert many times.
I learned the hard way, I now read the entire contract, the last purchase we did was a car, I sat there and read the entire contract, I had questions and ended up dropping some of the add-ons, they kept telling me it was a standard contract, he also told me they had other people waiting, then he asked me to step out of the finance office and read so he could get others thru the process, I told the finance guy if I get up and leave this office I am taking the contract with me and leaving, he let me stay in the office, he left for a bit.
Most places are switching to e-signing for this very reason.
Really annoys the personnel. TOO BAD!
What about medical billing. It's standard practice now to sign a document that basically says: "you may also get billed by unknown parties for unknown amounts". NO ONE would ever sign such a thing anywhere else but a doctor's office. How is this even legal?
A friend who loves to camp comfortably has a great method. She rents a nice travel trailer and has them deliver it to her camping spot and set it up for her. She camps for a week, and they come by and pick up their trailer. All she does is drive there and have a good vacation.
Wow! Great idea
Great idea, but sounds expensive. I'd rather rent a cabin.
Friends wonder why I was so happy to buy a 1996 RV - this is one of the biggest reasons why! All the bugs (or at least 99% of them) have long been worked out, and there's no issues with warranties since it was way beyond that point. I went into it eyes wide open knowing that what I saw is what I got, and I had no one but myself to blame for anything.
Yeah, all the depreciation has taken place, and you just need to take care of maintenance.
And they were made much better back then.
@@jamescaron6465 Well... Only the ones that made it this far were.
Fun fact: most failures of a product occur either at the beginning or the end of a product's life. This is called a "bathtub distribution" because on a graph, it looks like the cross section of a bathtub.
No overbearing modern tech either. I've had a driver's license for decades. Don't need confused software controlling the vehicle for me thx
Every single thing in life involving material purchases has become corrupt! At every turn someone is always trying to cheat you!
Even our candy is stale.
Truth
This goes for Boeing airplanes now too. 😥
Yep. This is American capitalism at its best.
@@KeithFolske- Communist Campers FTW!
That contract is about as bad as a timeshare contract!
Or an HOA for that matter.
Worse.
It's like a timeshare on wheels, with an HOA that follows you around everywhere you go.
not even close!
Who the hell would sign such a Pos document like that?
Was considering getting a new RV.
My 1999 Fleetwood Bounder just became awesome again! Couldn’t be happier with it!
I've heard that the Fleetwood Bounder is one of the best used RV's to buy. If I were to buy a used RV, the Fleetwood bounder would be at the top of my list.
I am thinking the same about my old Bigfoot
100%, take the money you would spend and just have it refurbished at half the cost.
@@craiglawson663 absolutely brother!
Many moons ago, my wife and I began camping, I think, if my memory serves, my 52 year old daughter was a 6 month old when we bought our first tent. Over the years I purchased many RV's beginning with used camper trailers, pop up trailers and as we aged and setting up camp was more and more of a chore, we purchase motor homes. Now I only purchased one new camper, it was nice but a piece of crap, the slide out failed, the floor covering cracked on the main part of the camper and while not the fault of the maker, 3 hail storms hit the unit. the first 2 the insurance covered, then promptly canceled my policy because of "to many claims." What we learned about RV'S is common knowledge among users of motor homes. The units are not completed by the manufacturer, it is up to the new owner to shake out all the problems. Our last unit was a glorious RV. It was beautiful inside and out. We would travel South before the snows of the Dakota's flew, and come home after the thaw. Every time we took the unit South (we got it used) we put over 1000 bucks into repairs. I lost my wife 4 years ago now, the RV sat in the back yard from the COVID years and last spring a fellow knocked on my door wanting to buy it. I gave it to him if he took over payments, well the bank said no but he got a loan and purchased it. I was happy to see it drive away, my bank account was thrilled with the payments (600 a month) stopped and I could afford to live without my wife's income. While the time we spent together in that RV were precious, we fell in love again all over and had wonderous times, I would never give up, the RV was a thing of joy, and a pain in the ass all in one. Nice video, thanks
I'm sorry for your loss. You'll have the memories of your experiences forever. Take care
A true Man, that has Intellect enough to Maintain your own assets... A wife is a valued co-pilot through life. Comes the time when Single Pilot still operates, just a bit more self motivation required to maintain altitude through IMC.. Faith my friend. Life is still great, just different.. :)
Thank you for sharing your story.
Seeing our beautiful country with your wife is priceless memories
Camping world is widely known as one of the most shady places you could ever do business with. They love to lure in people with low prices, then tack on a bunch of fees that were not disclosed upfront.
if not disclosed upfront, those fees really should be considered illegal and they should be forced to refund the entire price of whatever they bought from them while allowing them to keep it and offer them full servce for free.
I have heard many horror stories about Camping World from friends who have purchased from them, all opinions are the same: Camping World does not care about the customer once they sign the Purchase Agreement.
When they are disclosed is not relevant as long as it is disclosed before or at the time that the customer signs the agreement.@@theldraspneumonoultramicro405
Yep, so I’ve heard.
Don’t buy from them.
I signed a contract for gutters and realized it was a rip off and reading the contract more carefully. I called and canceled the next morning, before they installed it, which was the day. They showed up anyway. I sent them packing. Fortunately in my state you have 2 days to cancel. No wonder they wanted to install it the next day. I am so thankful the law was in place to protect me, allowed me to recover form my mistake.
What was the scam? Aren't they just gutters?
Gutterhelmet? I bought those and wish I hadn’t!
This RV owner messed up big time but what lawyer in VA thought they could possibly overcome that contract???? More billable hours from a whale client on a case they should have known they couldn’t win in VA!
What is the point of gutters anyway? Isn’t just something extra that you have to clean out. Why do I care if rain falls next to my house? I’ve never had them.
@davemccage7918 depending on how your foundation is constructed having gutters can prevent settling and water issues
@@trevortimmreck Yes... I have gutters. Further I put in my self (a lot of work, 100's and 100's and 100's of feet of trenches to lay drainage pipe) underground drainage, all gutters go to sumps and water is pumped to the street curb.... My back yard has a French Drain as well. I have clay soil and a flat lot with out a lot of fall to the street, and it's a long story but foundation is good. The company is LEAFGUARD (not to be confused with leaf filter but all these companies are a joke). LEAFGUARD has the cover over the gutter and through surface tension and capillary action the water rolls around the edge and into gutter... The cover keeps leafs out. I have 49 degree roof. The overshoot in heavy rain would be bad. YES TO GUTTER but no to $12,000 gutter "system" by LEAFGUARD.... That works out to be $80/ft.... AND THAT WAS THEIR GOOD DEAL....it started at $18,000.... but they gave me some bogus discount.... Ah holes... The sales were high and I don't know why I was so weak and careless to not read the contract well.
I was an RV dealer from 1990 to 2006. On a unit such as a van camper Chrysler warranties would cover Chassis and cab. Thor would cover any modifications done by Thor as far as walls and cabinetry done to the cab. Refrigerator and all other appliances and any electrical components are covered by those manufacturers that manufactured those components. It was a nightmare as a dealer to go to as all these different companies and try to be reimbursed for warranty work performed. To top it all off RV manufacturers have absolutely the worst quality control imaginable. I finally had enough and got out of the business.
True story: our attorney and the bank people literally let me know how displeased and irritated they were with me for taking 4x as long as it normally takes them for people to close on a home. I sat and read COMPLETELY every. Single. Page. that we signed when we closed on our house. And I literally told them that if the only page I had to sign was that THEY were gonna make our payments and the house would still be ours, I could have gotten it done in a few minutes. Sooo.... yeah, stop your loud sighs and comments so I can concentrate while I read the contract 😏😂
My bro screwed with a contract that was sent for his new house. Seller signed it without reading it. I'm not sure how much he made but it was a bad day for the seller. You did good.
Didn't you have an attorney? Not a bank or title attorney, I mean one you hired?
@@greeneyesms That's generally never done in America at least, normally you just have a listing agent working for the sellers and your own agent, but no lawyers. Any involved are usually hidden behind the bank and you never meet or interact with them at all, everything is handed to you by the agent or maybe a notary public.
@@ragea1 I hired a lawyer to represent MY interests when I bought a house in Massachusetts. "It's routine, just sign it" wasn't going to happen without a lawyer available to me if I had questions.
@@greeneyesms That I can agree with completely, it's stupid not to protect yourself if you have any choice. Was just going off what seems to be the norm, not that it's exactly smart.
Man do I feel smart for buying a decommissioned ambulance and doing a conversion myself. I paid $12k and had it retitled as an rv. I have power, ac, water, cooking and a potty. Even have a little door to separate the cab and the box. King bed. And insane storage. Fits me, a mom who learned to do it all on yt, my two teen girls and my collie. We’ve traveled so much already!
Nicely done
Good for you, happy trails! Nothing like a little ingenuity…
Shower?
That is the only way to do it buy a box van and build your own.
And the added bonus? Emergency response vehicles have NO budget. Spend the money on maintaining it. So when you bought it, it probably needed very little repairs, or none at all. Only problem is the engine hours are normally higher.
Basically it sounds like the contract implies you shouldn't buy an RV from them.
If you need a lawyer to understand the contract...dont buy.
I bought a semi truck 2 weeks ago, I was almost going to buy one from a Kenworth dealer in town but even though I was paying cash they handed over a purchase agreement. They asked for a $3,000 deposit and for me to sign a purchase agreement.
The first paragraph of the purchase agreement agreed that they could change the base price.
It also had an indemnity clause and arbitration clause.
They were shocked when I refused and walked out. They said they'd never had that issue before.
They called me days later explaining to me every dealership is going to offer me that same deal, I told them no I just bought a truck and I was sitting in the office where I just wire transferred money to buy my truck to a straightforward dealer.
The idea that this is all industry standard is not true. You have to shop around, I don't know about for RVs but that's my case with the semi truck
They want it to be in South Bend because Elkhart is the RV manufacturing capital of the world. They know if they get it in South Bend, they will not get an unbiased jury pool because everyone living around there is dependant on or knows someone dependent on the RV industry.
Yep. Dirty pool for sure. Typical legal maneuvering to try and subvert a fair trial.
Thanks for the insight!
No that means they will get a biased jury, biased in favor of the rv industry
@@jeromethiel4323seems like a currupt judge issue. It should be easy dismiss jurors who are involved in the RV industry or close to someone that is.
You can file there then file to have the forum moved because you can't get a fair trial in that forum.
In the 90s my great grandfather bought a brand new RV. The sink leaked and took 2 years to get the part (it was a specialty part). He ended up paying out of pocket and died a few months later never getting to use said RV. My grandmother sold it for next to nothing because it sat for years and she wasnt going to use it without him. This has been going on probably as long as RVs have been sold.
Old people sure couldn't care less about generational wealth, huh.
I bought my second RV (the first was a slide-in truck camper that I had to part with and wasn’t able to use much) in 2003. It was a 1995 Class A made by a higher-end brand and built on a Chevrolet chassis. I bought it from a friend whose dad owned it but became terminally ill. The RV was parked for three years. I helped my friend get the RV ready to sell by doing work on it on weekends. I learned about RV repair and maintenance from that experience. I ended up buying it for myself and I still happily own it today. Here’s what I learned from the overall experience:
1. Never buy a brand new RV. Period. Aside from the value of an overpriced vehicle plummeting as soon as it’s driven off the lot, it’ll need a shakedown cruise of several thousand miles to really work out the issues. Let someone else do that at their expense.
1 (a). Never buy a brand new RV from Camping World. Their lot gates are locked and the only way to see the RVs is to walk through a gauntlet of sales people who have families to feed. They see you coming. Also, Camping World purchases mass-produced junk from the manufacturers. And as we’ve seen here, they don’t care about the customer after the sale.
1 (b). Never buy a brand new RV at the RV show, even if the “SHOW PRICE” sounds really enticing. By all means, go to RV shows when they come to your local fairgrounds or convention center. But only to look. Never to buy. I like to go every couple of years, just to see what’s new on the market.
2. If you’re not going to buy new, then that leaves buying used, right? Right. But before you go shopping on Craigslist or e-Bay, decide what your mechanical skills are. Start with a trip to Amazon and order a copy of Woodall’s RV Owner’s Handbook by Gary Bunzer (You won’t need the latest revision or even a brand new copy). It is important to understand how RV systems work. Arming yourself with knowledge when shopping gives you a leg up when negotiating a purchase price.
2(a). Beware of low-mileage RVs that are more than five years old. I would rather buy a higher mileage RV of the same year model than one with low mileage. A higher mileage RV has been used. Well used RVs tend to be better maintained. Low mileage RVs typically stay parked and neglected for much of the year.
2(b). Don’t judge a tire by its tread. I’ve gone through two sets of tires just because of age, not because of tread depth or other wear. Be prepared to negotiate a discount for having to replace the tires.
3. I’m into motorhomes rather than trailers so I can’t speak for trailers, other than conventional or fifth-wheel. If when considering purchasing an RV, it’s best to understand the Class system. Van type RVs are called Class B. Bus-like RVs are Class A and van cutaways (think U-haul box truck) on the Ford E-series style van chassis are Class C. I own a Class A but I think that the Class C is the most common, the most affordable and the easiest to maintain.
4. I’m going out on a limb here but in my opinion, the absolutely best value in a used motorhome, especially a Class C, is from the used RV department of Cruise America. Yes, they are rentals. Yes, they are high mileage. Yes, they are built mostly by Thor. But aside from peeling the wrap off of them and rebranding them as “Majestic,” Cruise America has also completely gone through them and made them practically brand new. I’ve been to their lot several times. I’m always impressed with the quality, condition and the prices. Worth a look.
Thanks for listening.
Agreed. I'm mechanically inclined, did a ton of research and bought a 98 Monaco, mechanical ISC/MD3060, 2 years ago for 1/4 of what that new Thor cost. Haven't regretted it.
Thanks for sharing.
In trailers, only buy used Arctic Fox.
"1. Never buy a brand new RV. Period." Can't agree more with you here! We got a 28' 1989 class C gulfstream conquest on a Ford Econoline LTD chassis. No complaints. Maaan, she's sturdy as F.
I just bought a very nice shape and very lightly used 98 Ford Four Winds mobile home the other day. but I got it from a friend had it for about 10 years that he bought from the estate of a deceased guy and needed some break work. But he has been a professional mechanic and licensed motor vehicle inspector. and we have been friends since elementary school over 40 years ago. and i know how he takes care of anything mechanical. so i know i was getting a mechanically sound rv that is 100% road-worthy even tho there are some minor issues with the camper part such as where he had a roof leak a few years ago and repaired it. and some of the plastic latches that hold the hatch doors open were broken. (easy fix at less than $3 each for new ones.) and i know my way around working on RVs and campers' wiring and all the appliances.. But one other good pcs of mind is that even when it hits the 75mile mark and needs the recomended filter change on the tranny and some other things. when its time to do the work all i got to do is call him and he will come do it. for a 6 pack. and he already bought spare parts of it a long time ago so its even got the replacement parts that its still a few road trips away from having to be serviced.
Last year my wife and I purchased a 32 foot travel trailer. It has improved our marriage and we absolutely love it. Sure problems arise here and there but they’re relatively minor. Rv’ing is not for everyone, can’t please everybody. We live in California and we love exploring this great country with all the comforts of home. We don’t miss busy airports and flight delays, filthy hotels and expensive dining costs.
“You can’t please everyone” like the guy who bought the RV was unhappy with the experience of RV’ing. When he wouldn’t know the experience of RV’ing because he RV can’t go anywhere. No one is going to be pleased with an RV you can’t drive anywhere.
They are referring to motor coaches in this case, not pull behinds. Pull behinds limit many of the mechanical problems of motor coaches...
Ditto here! We have our own house on wheels. My husband can fix anything & it’s been another great summer!!
and the consumer paid another $99,000.00 to the attorney who knew this case was non-winnable as soon as he saw the contract.
Same exact thought. Most lawyers are shameless and will take on any and all plaintiffs if they have the ability to put money in their pocket. Litigation against this industry has absolutely horrible success rates.
I work at a hotel in Elkhart County, Indiana "RV Capital of the World" and have meet so many people who have brought their RV's back to the manufacturer for warranty work on brand new units and were stuck waiting for long periods of time to get the scheduled work completed. Steve is right, they are a nightmare!
I've read that there is a months long wait to get your RV in, then once you bring it, it can be months and months before you get it back. Fixed or not. Obviously a tactic to severely limit the 1 yr warranty fixes you are able to make use of.
I thought Perth WA was the RV capital as it seems every second person has one.
@@masada2828I'm from close by. He meant rv manufacturing capital. Lots and lots of factories pumping them things out. It's why lehto mentioned the lawsuits have to happen in South bend with what they signed. Because it was manufactured nearby in Elkhart. For the record. I live close and I'll never go to Elkhart. That place is trash. All of it. Hence they have lawyers in... South bend.
I've done "warranty repair" on my mom's Forest River Class A pusher that I begged her not to buy. Man, what a box of sh!t.
Bet I’ve stayed at that hotel….
The founder, Chairman, and CEO of Camping World is Marcus Lemonis. He also on a CNBC show The Profit. Back ground check him and watch actual lawsuit depositions involving him and you may not want to buy anything from him.
I saw it. At one point he said he had no knowledge of a certain event happening. The counsel responded you were sent over 100 emails about it. His response I remember recieving the emails from this person but never opened or read the emails.
Twenty years ago, my late wife and I considered buying an RV. Friends of ours, who were more traveled and could afford just about anything, said, you can stay in a lot of nice hotels for the price, upkeep, maintenance, insurance, fuel, fees incurred with an RV. We thought about it, laughed about it, and forgot about it...
I watched his show and knew he was a snake. He really screwed western ny..he opened and closed a camping world store QUICKLY...? TAX BREAK?????
@@hoosierplowboy5299 My cousin said the same thing. Sold their rv and never looked back.
@@kmj782 Probably tax break, and then declared all his money on that location a loss, by transferring all the assets out, and all the loss in to it before closing it.
I secured a 1966 MCI retired Greyhound bus fully converted a few years ago. I love it, you can't punch a hole through the sides of it! And the motor is Bulletproof!
Given its from the Detroit Diesel era (if it has one),then that sure explains the reliability :)
@@chazzcoolidge2654 Yes sir, has the 8V 91
How old are you
Miles per gallon? Miles per gallon?
Inquiry mind wants to know.
My experience with an RV (class A) is that , like helicopters when operated properly within stated limitations, they still shake themselves apart.
In addition to being "kleenex boxes on wheels", Class A's have no safety features at all. How they get away with this is beyond me.
As the saying goes, “A fool and his money are soon parted, by an RV Dealership.”
Any product that requires such extensive disclaimers is not fit for sale. You shouldn’t even have to read them, just the sheer volume of the disclaimers should put you off. NO SALE!
In fact, one of the disclaimers explicitly says "we do not guarantee that this product is fit for sale", that's what the implied warranty of merchantability is about.
@notme9976 He didn't roll the dice. He signed, handed over 100K, then bent over and said 'ream me'. With a disclaimer like that, you know you're getting screwed.
My wife and I were looking to buy a new RV recently. The first thing we noticed was there were literally NO CUSTOMERS in the RV store. However, there were numerous staff standing around with literally nothing to do. I wondered how these people earned a living working here. After we started looking at the RV's with a salesman, I noticed one thing they all had in common, the material felt like it was cheap and flimsy. I felt as if one of our kids accidently slamed one of the cabinets or the refrigerator door, the door would literally fall right off. The RV's definitely were not "kid proof." I was already mentally checked out by the time we went to put in an offer, but I was looking to see what the numbers looked like more for entertainment value. Once the salesman started adding up all the miscellaneous fees and expenses at the end of the sale, I simply laughed to myself and said "NO WAY!!" As my wife and I were leaving the store, the salesman told us the RV's we were looking at were going to sell quickly, I simply said "that's nice" because I knew they weren't going anywhere.
People, you need to call the lawyer before you buy the RV, not after 🤣🤣
Then take the lawyer’s advice don’t buy it.
why? the dealer is not going to change the verbage.
they were void contracts so it doesnt matter if victim signed them. they were unlawful contracts attempting to waive venue rules and lemon laws. the plaintiff should appeal and next round mention the contracts are void through contract law so any signature doesnt matter. signing void contracts doesnt turn them into valid contracts.any contract attempting to waive other laws is void under contract law.
Boats too.
@@congoparrot thats the point. if you talk the lawyer beforehand then you will know not to buy it in the first place and save yourself a lot of headaches.
RVs and boats are very similar. The two happiest days you're going to experience is the day you buy one, and the day you sell it.
😂 gonna have to remember this one! Gold!! Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
I've had my RV for going on 4 years, bought new no issues. I look forward to camping season almost as much as my 5yr olds (they named it Mr. camper). It's slimey industry unfortunately but it's not all doom and gloom.
I've heard that comment too many times. Irritating because it's not true for me or anyone I know who has a boat. If that comment is true for you, please state that and not that it is true for everyone.
@@latetotheparty184
A boat is a hole in the water lined with (wood, metal, plastic - fill in the blank) into which A LOT of money is poured.
I heard this statement from a boat owner and it was also my personal experience.
I can relate...as far as the boat goes....was so happy to see that thing leave. I really think boats are a bigger headache lol
The Devil learned how to write contracts from the RV industry apparently
Thank you, I learned so much. I will keep my tent forever. It has never caused me any trouble.
Yeah, but if tou get in an argument you can't walk out and slam the door!
This is a great example of why it should not be possible for sellers to contract out of consumer protection legislation
There's "should" - and then there's the legislators' campaign contributions from corporations who write contracts like the one Steve showed.
Great teaching. I had no idea it was legal for a dealer to use such a disclaimer. These scams should be common knowledge to buyers.
The obvious elephant in the room is:
for $100000 + tax and fees, constant maintenance, you could do a lot of very nice touring in a late model car and stay at hotels with money left over when you tire of it or you cannot any longer travel!!
My brother and his wife (retired, are mid 60's) have visited several times in their 28' class C. While they do enjoy the RV, every time they have visited, my brother and I had to do some work on the RV. They just returned to Florida 2 weeks ago where the RV had been for 2 months, when they got there the inside is flooded, luckily only the carpet was totally ruined.
Point of the story is, my wife and I are close to retirement and had started looking at RV's to travel with my brother, after looking hard into the current state of the RV industry, (we have owned RV's in the past) we both decided it would be much more enjoyable, (and cheaper) for us to just drive or fly wherever we wanted, stay in nice hotels and eat at nice restaurants.
And carry some tools in the trunk to help my brother with the RV. 😊
And campsites with hookups are generally not inexpensive
not to mention insurance. This must be a very wealthy senior citizen with more money than common sense.
@@HomesickforAlaska Plus its going to have the expenses of any vehicle, possible storage fees and only used a few times a year. In addition have you checked out the prices of RV parks??? Geez, it can cost more than a motel room!
Exactly...
In a presentation by a lawyer I attended he said that going to Law School was about learning how to read. That stuck with me. My lifetime experience with RV's (4) is that the quality is abysmal. The only way to keep them from falling apart or leaking is to keep them covered and not use them.
my old professor used to say that law school only teaches you two things: how to write and how to think
This rings very true. After going to law school but working in a non-legal field, I often tell my team: ‘ready to go to law school? Ok, read this contract.’
You can use them you just have to work on them before you leave and again when you get back and usually while your out using them as well but yes keep them under a cover for sure.
@@KatyLiedToMe I passed the International Brotherhood of Electrified Worker's Journeyman's Exam, just by knowing how to read an Index and a Table of Contents, with 45 minutes warning of the test.
true story - my dad has had 3 and they all leaked!
I purchased a new RV from Camping World in 2021, and I will admit it was the most impractical purchase I have ever made. The only thing I did that made sense was to pay cash and avoid interest payments. Meanwhile, I've taken many trips with it and my family, including two long distance, cross country trips. The last trip we took was just my son and I, traveling throughout the Canadian Rockies. Those experiences (and memories) are now irreplaceable and priceless. If I never use the camper again, it will have been worth it to me. I will admit I was fortunate and have never had an issue. The camper has performed without any problems. Buying an RV is anything but an investment, unless you consider priceless memories as an investment. I do!
RV dealers are some of the worst creatures on earth these days. I backed out of an RV deal before taking possession once and they turned on me and my wife like nothing live ever seen before. One second they were getting me fresh baked cookies and hot coffee with sprinkles and the next we were trapped in a glass room with a hard sell recovery agent threatening to sue me and bankrupt us in lawyer fees if necessary.
Buy a Grech.
Rv dealers the worst creatures on earth? Have you listened to a Politician lately?
@@B-24Liberator 😂
I don't know, man...them sprinkles could have sealed the deal 😂😂!!
What dealership?
The appropriate response to getting screwed by one of these contracts is a cinder block through the dealership's window with a piece of paper wrapped around it stating "By accepting the delivery of this cinder block through this window, you agree to indemnify and hold harmless its installer for any and all damages and accept that this cinder block carries with it no warranty express or implied. This cinder block is being delivered through your window AS-IS and you wholly accept any consequences thereafter upon receipt."
Spoken like a Harvard lawyer!
We looked at toy haulers 4 years ago, wanting to be able to take our Harley with us. The retro ones were really cute, but only had a red stripe on the outside and black and white checked flooring on the inside. Everything else was the same as any other trailer and they wanted $60,000 for a 24'. All the trailers were so cheap.
We went to Interstate trailers in Salem Oregon, purchased a 26 ft enclosed with a ramp, chalk for the motorcycle, some tie downs, heavy duty locks and put a window in the door. We took the covid years, put in a Murphy bed, a row of used lockers, built shelves on the opposite wall with tables that are hinged, so they can fold up and keep the things on the shelves from falling. We haul our own water, have a compostable toilet and a ton of solar. We will never have to fix anything. We are in heaven
Absolutely. The DIY RV toy hauler market is pretty awesome. That is the only way to get a quality result.
👍🏼❣️
Car manufacturers and RV builder have the same moral compass. It is swamped " greedy" on the back. Nuff sed.
How much did it cost for the good diy?
You live in a a rolling metal shack and shit in a bucket. Everyone’s idea of heaven is different 😂
I often wonder about the safety of an RV, especially in an accident. Years ago while driving OTR, l ran across an eerie scene early in the morning. There was a long debris field in the median of interstate 25 in Wyoming. The debris was comprised of small pieces with a few larger ones mixed in. At the end of the debris field sat a chassis with four wheels attached. A steering wheel column was sticking up with a steering wheel still on it. That is all that remained of an RV, which had crashed and rolled!
That's dark! Sounds like the start of a horror story!
RVs are made of fibreglass.. you are much better off with a bus conversion. They are made of stainless steel. They also steer and handle better.
As a current RV owner, and having owned many other RVs is the past, I am qualified to comment on this subject. In order to be a successful RV owner you must have one of two things: 1. extensive mechanical ability and wherewithal, or 2. DEEP pockets. All RVs have problems, regardless of make, model, age, mileage, etc... ALL OF THEM to one degree or another, especially new ones. So you must be prepared to fix it yourself or pay big dollars for someone else to fix it. That is why I only buy used, never new. Used RVs have generally already revealed their problems and someone else has paid to fix them. Also, I only buy certain brands, based on their reputation among RVing enthusiasts, and my personal brand preferences. But all of that is besides the number one reason why I am an RVer, and that is the memories and experiences camping with my family, which are priceless. Did I spend a small fortune on my RVs? Yes. Did I experience mechanical issues? Yes. Was it a sound financial decision? OF COURSE NOT. But I wouldn't give up one single memory I made with my family in exchange for all the RV related headaches I have endured.
I am looking to buy a class c motor home. I am 50 and selling my home to live in the rv and travel the country. Which brands do you recommend and which should I stay away from? I don't plan on buying new, and looking for minimum 30' and less than 50k miles.
I basically built my own. I bought a 1989 Class C on a Chevy Chassis and immediately gutted it. During the build, all plumbing and electrical, except for the GM wiring original to the chassis, was done as if it was for a "stick built" house. It hasn't given me a lick of trouble.
are RVs built on diesel platforms not reliable? Is there not some RV brand that had a compareable longevity and reliability to the way most people thinkg of Toyotas? Or a 1970s Mercedes when they were built like tanks? I ammmmm curious. Have never owned! Would like to be able to afford a premium fifth wheel setup one day, like a diesel f-350 dually fifth wheel living trailer. Only because I always have heard excellent things about the reliability and longevity of diesel things.
No thanks, I have no interest in a mobile POS money pit!
Agreed. You've lived the same experience as I and feel the same about it.
You've literally saved a multitude of people a whole lot of aggravation. Love your show.
RV parks have a 10 year rule. If your RV is over 10 years old and not in good repair they can refuse entry.
That is also changing, one near me is 7 years! LOL. Mostly, it's to keep out the riff raff picking up a vintage 70s Winnebago and driving it forever.
Some of them do, and if you have a rig that is in good condition, if you contact ahead of time and send pics, they may make exceptions.
That's why I stay at state parks. I'm not letting a campground force me into a purchase. Private campgrounds have gotten just like amusement parks, they have priced out the regular family that just wants to get away for a weekend.
*some* have that rule to keep people from dragging their junk in. Even ones that have that rule in place will generally only enforce it if your RV looks like a wreck.
I bought a Pleasure Way Accent camper van 2019
No issues 5 years now
Best made in market
Love it
Cops look at RVs as if you were homeless, not as if you were on vacation.
it is sad that lately many people use RV to live in random places. that included many illegal parking spaces.
Most cops are scumbags and worse than a lot of the people that they arrest
depends on the rv. if you have a well maintained unit and don't look like a crack head. they know you have means to maintain a expensive unit.
The classic: Cops knocks on your RV door at 2am to "See what's going on" ...
depends on the RV and the location.
there have been cases for example where massive road closure on highway, police are doing their best to get blankets food and water to different cars in the area, and one RV owner offers to let the police use their RV as "a base camp".
there are people with luxury RV's that are just massive... hauled by 18 wheelers... perfect example was the Featherlite Country Estate Villa, 3 horse, 53' trailer... with 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms massive slide out, connecting hall to the horse stables, pull out saddle racks.
then... theres the Unimogs.. Unimog expedition vehicle, police look at those and wonder if they need anti-tank weapons LOL.
There are also tactics that the salesperson has like: "I have another appointment in 10 minutes, let me get the paperwork together to complete your purchase". Then they walk out of the office for a few minutes and later wave you out of the office and down the hall to a small cocktail table with no chairs and sets the contract down for you to sign and makes a statement like "let's see if we can get this in before the contracts department leaves for the day". This makes the customer feel like it would be rude to demand that they sit down and read the entire agreement. I hope some states make these kinds of tactics illegal.
NEVER let them make you, the customer, feel rushed or that you are taking up their time....that is their job. If they want the sale, you should feel respected and given all the time you need to feel comfortable with your purchase. Until customers start expecting to be treated properly, or they walk out, this will not change. We hold ALL the cards. They want our money. We do not owe them anything. The dealer must EARN our business. All it takes is the customers being willing to walk away. They cannot stay in business if more customers would use the power they have.
Just take the contract and leave. Go back next day,, let them know your decision.
Yes, it's all so shady and disgusting.
I wouldn't buy anything from Camping World if my life depended on it.
Amen 🙏
Worst dealer!
Since 2015...the quality dive bombed. If you're going to buy one, get a WELL BUILT OLDER RV. I've got a 36' Winnebag Vectra Diesel pushed. It's been AWESOME! NO problems inside, outside or with engine or frame. COULDN'T be happier!!! BTW... it's a 1998 with all reciepts and records of anything and everything ever done to our unit since it rolled off the assembly line. Truly built very well and still looks new!
I saw an interview with the CEO of a RV manufacturer. He was speaking of someone that 'only' paid $200,000 for an RV that turned out to be trash. The CEO said they only paid $200,000! He went on to ask 'what do they expect for only $200,000.'
I expect a small house here in Wisconsin.
Did you vote for Biden?
Is Austin still really Texas?
Is it the vaccine doing this to you?
I'd LOVE to pay ONLY $200,000 if the RV normally retails for over $1 million!
in 2010 my wife kinda flipped out on me when I decided to restore my 1972 Dodge Midas class C Motorhome (with my side job money). She said I was wasting my time on and o'l piece of junk and,I'd never finish it anyway. She was almost right. I spent so much time and money divorcing her and fighting over the house, I almost didn't get it done. However in 2022 I drove it off my property for the first time since 2004 ( i bought it in 1993). At 52 yrs. old it looks like new. I did a complete ground up resto all by myself for $6,000 (and a million dollars worth of labor, lol).
She is as solid as a rock and climbs the Colorado hills like a Mountain Goat with a fresh mopar 360. I get compliments everywhere I go and my kids love driving it ( and telling their mon about how nice it drives, lol). It's small with single wheel axle in the rear. I love driving it to the lake for the day etc. I used it yesterday in Jan for a daytrip to the state park. i LOVE THIS OL' THING!
I'm sure glad I kept it, and dumped that ol' Nag of a wife :)
Thanks for a good ole' belly-laugh!
Yeah, I'd say that was a good trade lol.
Looking for a motor home back in 2008, seen one for sale
a 1978 Apache Dodge motor home for $1800.00
Went and look at it, 72,000 on ODM
400 CID
The man said it got horrible gas milage, probably 6 miles to the gal.
going down hill.
Pulled off the dog house, put in gear, moved it 100' bought it on the spot! Wife came out and handed her $1800.00, she ask me why that hood was off of the engin ??? I said please sighn the title!!!, I just wanted to hear the engin run...
Her and him sighn the title over, went and got 5 gals of gas, drove it off their property........
My Nephew ask me why is the dog house off...I told him see that PTO shaft turing? They had it in 4 wheel drive, I adj the linkage on the road, put in drive, had it ever since... where can you get a 4 wheel drive motor home for less than $2000.00 😃 😀 😄
How is this relevant to the video, and who cares?
Glad you're enjoying the fruits of your labor. The other benefit of a restoration is if anything goes wrong, you know better than anyone how to fix it.
My dad bought a new RV in 1976. We took a month long trip from Ohio to California and back in it. As soon as we got home dad listed the RV for sale and sold it before the first payment was due.
That had to cost more than a rental
@@bend8353 I was 5, I have no idea how much it cost. And I have no idea if RV rentals were a thing in SW Ohio in the mid-70s. I rented one in 2013 and it was a 200 mile round trip from Cincinnati to Richmond, IN to pick it up and drop it off.
My dad did things like that all the time in the early 1970's. I was older and he told me he bought low and resold for a profit. Tents, pop up trailers, etc. Saved on storage and wear and tear from not using it in the Michigan winter.
@@cathyhogue3693 Bought low and resold for a profit? I guess that works when it does, but most things like that never resell for more than you paid unless you are always looking for deals and desperate people.
Interesting, a dealer sold my parents Jamboree for the same price they paid for it new. Parents sold it back at like 65% of purchase price. It worked fine and we just weren’t using it as a family anymore. Purchased in ‘77 sold back in ‘82.
The vast majority of people who spend outragious amounts on an RV end up using them a few weeks a year, and the rest of the time they sit and depreciate in their driveway. My wife and I thought, "Oh! We're going to do a ton of traveling, month long trips, and even when we're not doing that we will take off every weekend!" Right! Maybe could have done that twenty or thirty years ago! Now, even Forest Service campgrounds want reservations months in advance. Every place is crowded, even boondocking areas! Spontaneity is non existant! Not to mention that it eats you out of house and home between gas, maintenance and constant repairs of something! Fridge stops working! Laminate coming loose! Tank sensors! What's wrong with the heater? Gen won't start! We have all this luxury and find ourselves pining for the good old days with a Coleman stove, a couple of sleeping bags and a tent!
Finally, as much as we love being "out there", our life is here. Need to paint the shed, clean the gutters, mow the lawn, plan the grandkids birthday party, repair the porch rail, go to the doctor, plant that tree that she wants, clean the bird boxes, chop the firewood! Always something! "Yeah! Can't go this week! Maybe next week!"
You think buying a new car is a bad investment? Spend $150,000.00 on and RV!! My advice, rent first. Then, if you really have to have one, buy used. And know ahead of time, you ain't gonna use it as much as you think.
My parents bought a motorhome a few decades ago with the intent of taking all their grandchildren to Disneyland Ca. from Portland Or. It only made it to Northern Ca. before the transmission went out. Two other cars were following when they all stayed in a Motel for a week until it was decided the unit had to be towed back to Portland. The dealer (of course) refused to be responsible along with the manufacturer. It received 2 more transmissions before it had 4000 miles and they sold it.
2 week old motor home and the engine quits, 2 month old Boeing and the door pops out. America and all its cost cutting on everything has made it to where we can't make ANYTHING worth a darn anymore. It's insane....and sad.
@@gomahklawm4446 But have you seen what us hot rod shops are getting for street rods these days? People are starting to appreciate craftsmanship and cars from before they became appliances.
Basically, It is almost impossible to manufacture in the U.S. EPA, OSHA , DEI, Taxes, And a whole lot more. The result is a massive overhead, Cost cutting is a necessity and quality goes out the door.@@gomahklawm4446
It is because the RV Manufacturers have purchased "protective legislation" in their "home states" that make it near impossible to get any claim against them.
Nothing about this has anything to do with "protective legislation", even if the forum selection clause wasn't in the agreement the RV dealer still would have won. The purchaser simply didn't take the time to understand the agreement they were signing, they agreed to purchase the RV with no warranty of merchantability or fitness for purpose and this is the result.
Please explain the process of buying laws. I keep hearing about this being done, the politicians seem to be getting rich, yet the very people who should be stopping this, the voters and the press, never catch it.
You seem to know, please share.
@@tissuepaper9962has nothing to do with the dealer. The rv was manufactured in Indiana. If you want to sue the manufacturer you have to do it on their home turf.
@@nunyabidness3075 The ones I saw were gossip about stocks or high stakes bets between business owners and politicians, during golf matches and poker games.
@@mudboy9762 Are saying Congressmen are betting their votes? And that you witnessed this?
Late last summer we had an RV sales place show up in town in a parking lot - “Clickit RV”. I posted Steve’s “Don’t buy an RV” video on their pages - never got blocked faster than by their admin. POOF, they’re gone now.
Thank you thank you,I’ve lived in rvs for pretty much 30 years now and I see how much the quality has plummeted,they’re just garbage but you can’t tell people that .Because of my finances I’ve always bought older models,thank goodness. I now live in a beautiful 2006 wilderness advantage 38’ all aluminum frame…..bought it for $22,000 with extended warranty. A friend of mine paid 78,000 cougar my god nothing but problems right from day one…..awesome channel,thank you..Carolyn 😊
Camping World has a lot of scams that the general public need to avoid. I would never buy anything there, much less a RV. Bought my Thor Van through La Mesa, they have honored all warranties with no issues. Choose your dealerships wisely. More people need to hear about Camping World and their Shady business practice.
Is a Thor van any good?
@@nobody3120zX My own experience, I feel they did great with the build and the various equipment it has installed, has been packed nice and tight. I've done alot of research and van searching. Zion edition for example, I feel that Thor did great with packing in more features and creature comforts then the others. Certainly like many other van builds, has some minor issues but nothing that can't be fixed in 1 service visit(scheduled next week). Gone winter camping, rain camping and it's been super awesome with family in tow. Absolutely will do it again if I had to choose Thor. Again, this is my opinion from a owner. I've owned several Travel Trailers, this is my first Van/RV ever.
@JoseMendoza-gq1bx
Thanks I'm a homeless marine veteran that just got awarded disability payments, it comes out to about 44k a year tax free. Would I be able to afford a vehicle such as the Thor? I looked online they look very pricey Any suggestions would be appreciated
Just bought our 2nd RV through La Mesa RV’s. Love, love, love La Mesa!
I would not buy bird seed at CW.
I'm baffled by this. The thing that gets me is that ANYONE can check online, the quality of nearly ANYTHING. I can find out about a $20 battery charger, a $100 drill... yet someone buying a $100K RV doesn't do a background check. Word of mouth is so powerful, yet this still happens.
This is a mortgage, and he did not have a lawyer look over the contract? This must be a senior citizen with lots of money, who is suffering dementia.
Hard to know if he got alemon or if it's all bad. Imagine if every industry did this. It shouldn't even be allowed.
I've found it interesting over the last few decades that individuals who appear to have sub-90 IQ's are often inexplicably awash in cash, blow money on some of the most idiotic things imaginable, never have to worry about being broke, everything seems to fall into place for them, while other individuals I've seen who are the smartest people I know personally are struggling financially no matter how hard they work.
If you think that it's hilarious that someone buying a $100,000 RV can't be bothered to check out anything online, now factor in the housing market for the last decade-plus, where thousands upon thousands of just-hit-the-housing-lottery morons abandon the state they just destroyed (California, for example) and buy up whatever housing they can get their hands on in their new home town of wherever, not bothering to see if the local housing prices are actually insanely overpriced for what's there (where Californians move to with their housing lottery money), displacing the locals who often can't afford to spend a tenth of what current housing prices are.
The end result? I don't think I'm stupid enough to be rich.
I agree.
I'm not in the US have no interest in RVs but I'm always getting UA-cam stories pop up about these horror stories.
Mind you spending all the money on an Aluminium turd hauler, especially if you borrow to do it, boggles my mind anyway.
Its got to be retirees which is why there are RV dealers plastered all over rural Florida. Its seems like once you escape the southeast U.S., this is a dying industry.
As someone who makes his living working on RVs, just know this: They all have problems. Some big, some small, but problems, they have. The trick is to find the worst of those before the warranty is up and have the manufacturer fix them. The whole reason I got into this line of work is because I've spent so much time working on my own, and got so good at unscrewing what the Camping Worlds and other "repair shops" screwed up, that I figured I just might be able to help others actually enjoy the lifestyle. When I was in the Navy we had a saying: "If it ain't one thing, it's TWO!". That goes for RVs, because I don't care if you paid $5k for a used travel trailer or $3 million for a custom hand built Prevost, it's got problems. Sadly, all of the builders know it, and hope that you own it long enough that it's your problem, not theirs.
The problem with this case was that the contract which was signed had language that had the buyer give up any warranty claims. So, when the plaintiff filed for relief, the judge dismissed the case because, per the contract, they had signed away any claim of warranty protection.
What state are you in?
@@createwildescapes I'm in Florida
I’m not even in the market for an RV but found this legal discussion of contracts quite interesting.
My father had a wise philosophy regarding RVs, boats and other recreational vehicles.... RENT them. This makes the owner responsible for maintenance, depreciation, storage, and all other expenses they incur.
Sage advice.
That also applies to intimate relationships. Just rent for an hour.
Great Advice! You get better and more complete service that way.
@@amazoidal
Which post were you replying too. 😅😂
The reply about intimate relationships.
Being required to go to Indiana should count as cruel and unusual punishment
I know right. It's like where are all the homeless junkies? Where is all the used needles and human shit in the streets?! Goddamn I miss California.
Yeah, for us Hoosiers. Having people come here is cruel.
they were void contracts so it doesnt matter if victim signed them. they were unlawful contracts attempting to waive venue rules and lemon laws. the plaintiff should appeal and next round mention the contracts are void through contract law so any signature doesnt matter. signing void contracts doesnt turn them into valid contracts.any contract attempting to waive other laws is void under contract law.
Indiana is one of only two states that intelligently doesn't participate in the madness known as daylight savings time (DST). Or at least it used to not do that. Everyone else, however, is utterly insane. And Indiana is a nice state with lots of open land. I'd call it quintessential Midwestern. Imagine what you can do with breathable, fresh air that might have a hint of livestock from the farm a mile up the road. Indiana also hosts the Indy 500 but Indianapolis is its own urban hellscape. You know what state doesn't usually make international news? Indiana. Florida, on the other hand, shows up in headlines daily with some naked crocodile-riding dude at a McDonald's _not_ on drugs.
@@privacyvalued4134 gary indiana is one of worst places in usa. completely ethnically cleansed. scortched earth nothing left alot of the places up that area are like that detroit and chicago. inner city indianpolis isnt much different. these cities have been and are ravaged by foreign officials who launder money then buy into corporations with share holding and then pummel usa economy. of course i dont know for sure. it does look like it though. if they CAN then they probably will, no laws block them from doing so.
I'm so glad you added, "If you want to buy a new one." There is a massive difference between older RVs and late model ones. My 1998 National Tradewinds is so solid and beautiful that I sold my sticks 'n' bricks ❤
That's awesome!
Lots of campgrounds will not let you bring in a RV older than 10 years because they sometimes abandoned. National long ago went bankrupt and you can't buy the parts they made-body, interior, etc. It will cost you a fortune if you break down and even worse if you hit a low hanging tree and can't get a windshield or body parts to repair. You would be better off driving a 1998 Ford Taurus and staying at B&B's.
@@daviddesmond2143it’s true Re: campgrounds. If enough people stop buying new junk-the private campgrounds will be forced to change.
Some campgrounds will accept older models “subject to approval” and you send in photos and some manager approves or rejects it.
But also-best thing that happened to me. I didn’t actually want to spent $90 after tax to stay there. State national and county campgrounds do not have such rules
Coworker who has had several nice RV _buses_ told me never buy a new RV. If you do... offer maybe 60% of the asking price, cuz that's what it will be worth as soon as you buy it.
MUCH worse than depreciation on autos.
I think I just saved a ton of money by listening to this podcast. Now I know why people buy the Sprinter Vans and build them out as an RV.
I actually sat there and read the contract when i joined the Marine Corp. The staff sgt behind the desk kept clearing his throat. When I looked up he seemed irritated. I read the whole thing as he turned red. It occurred to me that I must have been the only person to ever read the contract.
Literally, handing over your life for a period of time. Good to read the fine print!
And then you still joined the Israeli Foreign Legion anyway?
You might be the only one that could read
The gunny was amazed you couldn’t spell corps. Every Marine can spell corps, even the dumbest one. I’m calling BS.
@@marktapley7571you.may be a us soldier but your assigned to wherever they deploy. On a bad day your in the back of a cargo pla e (c 130), in route to a classified location. I used to carry a compass with me and try to guess the destination.
Broader advice should be "Don't sign legal documents that you haven't read or don't understand."
But what’s the alternative? You can’t install software or sign up for Netflix or do anything these days without giant legal agreements put in your face. There’s no way to read and understand them all. People agree to terms put in front of them all the time; we’ve gotten a “legal document fatigue” from all this nonsense.
Or medical one's
ie, dumb shit everyone says but doesn't follow
easier said than done - if you want to product, you sign it.
What im not understanding - why would you want to sue Camping World anyway??? Sue the manufacturer ....
NO, the broadest advice is simply - WALK AWAY WITHOUT PURCHASING WHATEVER IT IS THEY'RE SELLING. Carve that in stone.
Word of mouth is so valuable. That company going to such lengths to ripoff their customer hopefully effects their bottom line.
In the long run, that's true - Which is why it pays to do business with companies that have been in business for a long time.
Yes, but the troubling thing these days, is that there are more and more honest business shutting down and these shady places are replacing them.
Honestly won't ever buy local again after buying from carvana. Very pleased w my purchase
Here in Ohio people RUN from Camping world
Thor is known for having Crap products. People need to take a minute and actually research (on UA-cam) what they are buying.
Thank You, I was looking to buy a new RV, now that I see how one-sided things have become, there is no way in hell I would ever trust any of these companies.
Contracts that so fully and completely evade any liability even in the most extreme circumstances should be considered evidence of potential fraud.
Really. What better way to say, "We don't stand behind the product we sell at all.", while still gladly taking your money.
A few years ago while we were spending the winter in the Gulf Shores area, we derided to stop at a Camping World just to kill some time. We wanted to walk out onto the lot to check out some of the RV's and were told we needed to have a sales person with us. I have been high pressured by some pretty good people at different dealerships but the guy who was with us gave new meaning to the phrase high pressure. We have been RV'rs for many years so we know quite a bit about the products. Under no circumstance will we ever walk into a Camping World store again.
I have a 12 person ozark trail tent that my neighbor gave me for free and I have a blast every time I use it 😂 I’ve had so many toys in the past and so many problems with said toys that I’ve learned to get back to basics and enjoy the time with my wife and kids instead of chasing warranties and dumping thousands of dollars on shiny garbage.
Just one reason why I didn't buy a New RV.
My wife and I were at Big Tent in Quartzite, Az and asked that a few things on Contract be changed and they would not make any changes, this was 135K RV.
We walked away.
We were just there ourselves...just buy something three to five years old. Much cheaper and most of the major issues have been found out and fixed.
good on you mate
I bought a used car recently and while doing the paperwork I was given a form agreeing to the warranty. A few minutes several forms later the guy hands me a form to sign that agreed that there was no warranty and the car was being sold as is. I confronted him and he said," oh, there is a warranty, that form doesn't mean anything". I didn't sign the form.
"Oh, there is a warranty, that form doesn't mean anything."
Ok. I'll need to get that in writing and added to the contract.
After watching this video, an ad for Winnebago came on! LOL!
😂😂
I have a friend who has been a certified master RV technician for 34 years. He goes with me when I go look at a camper.
I "Revoked the Acceptance" of my wife after I found out someone else was using her Widget, and not only did I not get my money back, it cost me a truckload more.
Sorry but LOL. That’s a pretty good comparison you made…
Did you get a good trade-in or are you leasing now?
@@pconrz lol! Love it!🤣🤣😂😂
LMAO
😂
Some of my neighbors have rv’s , they sit in the driveway or side of house 98% of the time , rarely ever used.
Along with the huge truck to pull it (5th wheels, trailers, etc.)
Renting in those cases is better - owning a boat is even worse.
I built custom truck beds and used to build livestock and horse trailers. The quality that was demanded was not the level of quality I expect of myself as welder. I had coworkers that were on drugs while working, their quality wasn't very good. But they all passed QC. None of my beds ever came back for rework, and we built them all from scratch individually (one person built a truck bed start to finish). I quit after 2 years because I became the most experienced person on the floor due to high turnover, was a pseudo foreman, and was only gonna get a 50 cent raise. I've been a welder for decade and was making 20$ an hour having to fabricate and weld. I will stand my work, but I won't stand behind the company. I started my own business as I want to get away from working for businesses who think welders deserve the same pay as fast food workers.
In the RV market, it used be heavily dominated by the Amish for workers (which I'm familiar with as there a Winnebago manufacturing place close enough to me). But now it's a lot of uneducated people and often bussed in illegal immigrants. Regardless of your stance on illegal immigration, know that the government relies on illegal immigration due to lobbys of corporations who want basically slave labor to cut cost ls and make the largest profit. It won't go away, a wall won't stop this because companies want them. They don't want to pay for quality workers and our larger economy and social issues shows this (like the child labor aspect). It's a race to the bottom.
You described exactly what has happened to the RV factories in Elkhart Indiana, the RV capital of the world.
People are not educated or skilled enough because guys like you who claim to know so much won't take the time to teach them because you're too scared they take those skills and not have to depend on you anymore. You use that knowledge as a form of control of others.
The more you teach others to be self sufficient the less the corporations will have control over YOU.
Cheers.
Don’t forget child labor.
Much of what you say is true. The best thing you could have done is start your own business. I did the same thing. What I found out when we grew though is by hiring cheap expendable labor it cost us in the long run by having to constantly look for replacements , training them, and having poor work. I quickly found if we had a good person who did good work, paying them more than the prevailing wage and keeping them was far cheaper in the long run and built customers . I doubt I'm the only business owner who has come to this conclusion.
They insist that Americans finish school or college or trade school… Americans allow all they are doing to happen. We spend to much time hating each other, a different religions…
Non RV owner but I follow people who do it full time and its a tremendously interesting subject / dream to have. Best policy is to buy a smartly chosen older ( but not too old ) rig, of a genuinely well regarded brand that was not cheap back in its day, that you have taken care to have inspected well. Do any work it needs ( or it'll cost you more later ) and modify it to be up to date regarding power supply and thus have autonomy / freedom from camp sites.
On the point of modification / improvement, if a rig is still under warranty it can be restrictive against modification or be void. Also to be tied to certain dealers or repair centres for warranty work, which won't suit if the rig is to be your home and you're going around the country 'chasing 70'. Thus in this regard, its better to have an older rig and just be resigned to taking any repairs or replacements yourself. As you're paying a fraction of the price new then you're off to a good start.
Another important guiding principle is serviceability. E.g. A class A might look slick but you give yourself horrendous hassle and expense to get anything done to it. Whereas a class C chassis and motor section can typically be seen just as most other trucks/vans. Also avoid buying from a manufacturer that constructs its house without a care to service and replacement situations. You need to be able to work on it !
If anyone wants any advice on any subject, do not hesitate to contact me. I know everything and I'm always right.
I went to school for network security. The #1 thing they drilled into us. Read all your contracts (Terms of service is a contract) If you have questions about any of it, or if you don't understand something in it. DO NOT ACCEPT IT! contracts are deigned to protect the person asking you to sign it. Rarely do they EVER protect the person who is signing.
If you want to live cheap go to prison. Federal prisons are nicer than state prisons.
This is how I feel about rental agreements and most employment opportunities. (You're painted into a legal corner you can't get out of by everyone willing to offer any contract ... but unlike a RV, everyone has to live and work somewhere)
The corporate structure has so manipulated the laws that it feels almost impossible for a regular person to get reasonable concessions on contracts. If you lose your job: rent is still due no matter what, for the whole term of the lease. If you are a stellar employee and performing well above others, your employer can welcome you at the door on a Tuesday and say "You don't work here any more." ... and you have no legal recourse UNLESS YOU can prove you were fired due to a protected category.
Companies are so concerned with protecting themselves from any liability at all that they're screwing over almost every person who lives in the US. Courts can't fix that ... but legislatures should limit contracts where one class of parties is extremely favored.
Should, but won't - because who is going to donate huge sums of money to their "campaign fund"? Not the retired person who wants to cruise the country - in which case, I *might* recommend a VW pop-top camper. We had a 1978, bought it in 1979, drove it until we had one more kid than there were seat belts.
Wow, thank you. I was looking at buying a Ford Transit van and slowly converting into a camping van then I went back to researching Class C. After this I'm sticking to buying a van. Thank you!
All I can say is WOW. Thank you so much for educating the public. I have been thinking about purchasing an RV and this completely changed my mind.
Watching this only confirmed my belief that you're better off renting one.
Renting one is a much better option IMO
I came to that same conclusion with my boat after 11,000.00 engine replacement 3 months out of warranty because I only take it out to the lake between 6 and 8 times a year during the summer. My RV on the other hand I purchased with 5,000 miles on it in 2020 but it’s a 2018 Thor Venesian 40a Diesel pusher I use it probably 25 to 30 times a year just put 5500 miles on it in one trip last July when I traveled from NC where I live to California but I average 10,000 miles on it most years, I use it to go to car shows at Myrtle Beach and Carlisle Pennsylvania a few times a year and to drag race at mostly local tracks so for me a rental wouldn’t be feisable because I live in a small town and would have to drive at least an hour to rent it and sometimes I go to drag races with only a few days planned ahead of time, if your only taking it out less than 10 times a year and plan well in advance a rental is probably your best option. Mine was built pre covid but I still have to do repairs after most long trips but I do the repairs myself because I don’t want it sitting in repair shops for months at a time. My family and myself love RVing and our RV, this is my second RV that I have owned and I would suggest buying used because I didn’t on my first one and lost money big time when I sold it two years later although it was in great condition and well maintained.
But rental agreements can be fairly onerous as well. It seems like everyone is doing tricky, uneven contracts now.
We need more consumer protections, such as banning required binding arbitration, class action prohibitions, and pre-agreeing on an alternative venue other than the consumer's own county.
@@jamespoole9839 True.. RV.. translation three letters.. DIY, to enjoy for purpose desired.. Happiness is reasonable expectation, if DIY is the motto.. :)
The original "Never buy an RV" was how I was introduced to Lehto's Law. My wife an (attorney) and myself love this channel.
I don't remember specifically but I have a feeling that this is true for me as well.
I guess that is on reason that Camping World is filing bankruptcy and closing multiple showrooms nation wide.
I think they bought too much inventory, their lots are crazy.
I was caught in the same trap. Purchased a camper that was falling apart in less than 2 year. The warrantee on the roof did not happen to cover the skylight (plastic) that was on the roof and started leaking. Camper filled with water while stored during the off-season. Did the manufacturer cover anything for the 7 year roof guarantee? Nope.
Last one - I think it's also very funny that when someone buys a house, they act like it's a big purchase. Maybe consult an accountant or a lawer, a financial planner etc. But when they buy an RV they treat it like getting a laptop from Walmart.
That's a fantastic strawman you've created.
RVs are like timeshares. Almost nothing is guaranteed. You are on the hook for anything that goes wrong.
Time shares suck
I live in a used one and I've done some modifications to it, but it allows me to save up money for a house. It's not all bad.
That's not a lot different from other homes, even if you get a guarantee in writing there is no actual guarantee. I know, i did real estate for a year, everything is about TRUST. Some people are trustworthy, and many are not. Buyer beware!
Just treat it good and you should be fine. Store it in dry storage. If you full time, buy a higher end model like an Arctic Fox. I have a budget Arctic Wolf 311ML and in two years the only problems I have had were electrical which was my fault because of the wiring when putting in new batteries and panels. When full time, make sure the top of the unit is under a tarp if you will be in a sunny area like AZ in the winter.
When I last bought a car the sales guy was getting impatient with me waiting to sign. I finally told him I wasn't about to sign a contract without reading every word and assuring myself I know what it means.
I usually just ask them if they'd like me to take the contract home and read it at my leisure. That will almost always shut them up since they don't want to take a chance that somebody more knowledgable than you will see it before you sign it.
In Florida, some RV campgrounds will not allow any RV made before 2006 stay there. I like hotels much better.
In 2013 we decided to sell everything and RV the US. We bought a 30 ft 2007 Alumalite trailer with slide out for $12,500 that had never been used, had all the stickers still on everything.
I knew I wanted a real bathtub, so we bought this model because it had a split rear, bunkhouse/bath with the bunkhouse slightly wider than the bath so we could tear out the bunks and put in an acrylic slipper tub, and a Splendide washer dryer that we plumbed through the wall and under the bathtub/shower in the bathroom. Our 10 water heater could heat with both electric and propane at the same time, 10 gallons of scalding hot water every seven minutes, so plenty for the tub.
We took out the stove/oven that was only good for burning cookies and got a used Fisher/paykel dishwasher drawer and put a propane cooktop on top of it. Got a deluxe toaster oven that worked way better. Found a great used Ford Excursion V 10 4x4.( still have it!) Then bought used Thousand Trails membership! Traveled many wonderful years pretty much trouble free with dishwasher, washer dryer and bubble baths.
You never mentioned you've spent $12k for trailer and $12 mil on gas for ExcursionV10!
A trailer is something completely different. A good trailer can be a great investment. An RV is a self-powered ticking liability and disaster bomb.
Trailer is always the best option
@constance....
Ummmm... AND !!!
Ummmm, are you looking for work😅😂... But sounds like you really made a mansion on wheels. 👍
Consumer protection needs laws that prohibit contracts to invalidate their rights as consumers.
Maybe consumers just need to be smarter about their purchases? You can’t expect the government to jump in each time people are making big purchases and don’t do their due diligence. Government regulations have their place, of course, but in these RV situations can be avoided by just reading and taking the time to understand what you’re reading. Don’t be a sucker and expect Biden to bail you out.
They do
@@sulblazer you literally making excuses to allow business entities to skirt consumer protection laws, by creating an entire industry with these contracts, with the idea you can just not buy from us, but the problem is they are all doing it, creating a oligopoly where two or more companies control the market, none of which can keep the others from having significant influence, im no lawyer, or versed in these laws, but i would assume it is illegal, but you must challenge it before it can be fixed.