I have been researching Beekeepers for two years to prepare. I have learned more from watching your videos in the last three hours! Your awesome! Thank you. :-)
Wow, thank you so much for your kind words! I may have to buy a new hat, now, for my swelled head. 😁 I am very glad that you've found the videos useful. Thank you for watching!
As always a fantastic video my friend. One thing I would add for people, is in the winterization, if your in a cold climate and you are adding the pillow or blanket extra for the extra insulation when you wrap it down over the follower board you need to leave an air gap. If you do not the moisture can build up inside the hive and you can loss your hive.
Great video,thank you. My first year w/bees, chose the Layens hives. Caught my bees in the spring, have one hive from them. My bees are very fiesty! Even with light smoking they swarmed me in large numbers. I never got as far as checking the brood frames because if that. I did remove a couple empty/ low build out frames from the end and 2 frames with a decent amount of capped honey. Left 8 frames for the winter that had 5+ inches of honey build out on them. It was very helpful to see how your frames looked compared to what I saw in mine today.
In what part of the country do you live? Are you in an area where Africanized bees are likely? I've been fortunate - all of my colonies have been pretty gentle to work unless they are under some stress (like the robbing in Taj Mahive hive 1) or until they get big (which is typical).
It’s interesting that you’re comfortable with three or four inches of hone on top. I’ve kept Langstroth for close to twenty five years. We need seventy pounds for winter. Basically the top deep needs to be plugged up.
The simplicity of preparing the Layens hives for winter was one of the things that convinced me of their merit. But besides the mechanics it really comes down to a philosophical difference. In Reverend Langstroth's writings he keeps coming back to the idea that God ordained that men should master the honeybees for our benefit. But the more we put this mastery/management of the hives on ourselves the more responsibility we bear to control the resources within the hives throughout the year. In contrast, Georges de Layens promoted the idea of keeping bees, acclimated to your area, in suitable hives which allow them to flourish by their nature. The Layens hive, with continuous deep frames, better approximates the continuous comb within a natural hive. As long as the bees are acclimated to the local area, so are in sync with the nectar flows and climate, they will store up resources in the hive as they would if they were in the wild. In our area (Missouri) that translates to about 3-5 inches at the top of the frame. not counting what is on the edges. I suspect that, farther north, local bees will naturally store up more honey. Farther south they might store less; using more of the frames, longer, for brood production. So it's not really about the specific numbers but about trusting the bees to store what they need. Having said that, I will also say that I've been astounded by how little honey the bees use during winter in the insulated hives. This makes sense because if they use fewer calories to maintain their cluster temperature then they don't need to consume as much.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Appreciate you're responding to my comments on multiples of videos. That sounds like a good response. I'm looking to switch to Layens' in the next year or two. It'll take me time to build the hive boxes. Question for you. I want to use 2x10's instead of the insulated hive. Your opinion?
@@beebob1279 building with 2x10s would be faster, but wood has only about 1/3 the R value of wool. That's one reason I prefer the insulated 20 frame hives. Having said that, I've successfully overwintered bees in converted Langstroth boxes with only a little additional wood cladding.
Thanks for sharing! I just recently purchased a horizontal Hive and have been reading the books and watching many videos. I noticed you didn't have Foundation on your frames do you use a bead of wax at the top of the frame? When you started, did you purchase bees or catch a wild swarm?
I use a strip of wax foundation at the top of the frames. Initially I used 1" starter strips but found that those sagged too much when they got warm. Now I use about 3" of starter and let the bees build out the rest of the comb. My first colony came from a trap-out from a tree and I've made multiple colonies from that original. Others came from caught swarms or cut-outs.
Thank you so much for your time, response and knowledge! So bc the bees are wild, you don't address the bugs bc they will take care of themselves or do you use some method? How long should I keep a trap hive in a tree if a don't catch bees?
@@trevormcnutt9756 if the bees have survived in feral colonies and are strong enough to cast swarms then it suggests that they have traits to manage Varroa mites on their own without intervention. But catching a swarm does not guarantee it came from a feral colony or how long it has survived. You are correct that I don't treat my hives. That is partly because I trust them to have good Varroa resistance (which they have demonstrated) but also to remove the genetics of those colonies which do not manage Varroa themselves. I discuss my treatment-free approach more in this video: ua-cam.com/video/2Q-Ml_3sKhk/v-deo.html As for the swarm traps, depending on your area the primary swarm season ends around July. Swarms can be cast throughout the year, but late season swarms have less chance of survival, depending on your climate.
My experience with the layens is less frames is more. If I went over 10 or 11 they wouldn't build out frames completely or they wouldn't cap full frames by fall.
I let the bees decide how many frames are needed. The size/strength of the colony combined with the strength and length of the honeyflow is really the determining factor. Obviously we all want strong colonies and a good strong honeyflows, but that changes year to year and hive to hive.
There's not really a benefit to leaving more than the bees need, and if leaving extra frames leaves more space than the bees can effectively protect over winter it introduces a risk of something else getting to those frames: rodents, small hive beetles, wax moths, roaches, etc. If someone is insecure whether the honey left will be enough, it would be better to put extra frames in the freezer until spring than leaving them in the hive.
My word, a beekeeper who knows how to do a video! Wonderful! I expected five minutes of dialog before getting to the video, and then a moderately speedy dialog as you go through the frames. Again interesting and helpful. I have subscribed!
Thank you so much! Video production is not my field, but I'm trying to learn and apply how to make my videos useful and engaging. I'm still learning but your feedback lets me know that I'm on the right track.
@@SuburbanSodbuster I agree with Paul. In many videos we are told extensively what we are going to see before we get around to actually seeing anything.
For the Layens frames that I use I have a SAF Regata extractor, which is demonstrated at the end of this video. But I think you're referring to the Lazutin style frames (as wide as Langstroth but twice as deep) which I show in my frame comparison video. For those frames there is no extractor (that I know of) so for a full frame cutting and crushing the comb is about the only way. Some have connected two Langstroth deep frames together so that they can be separated for use in a Langstroth extractor. Others have used a double-deep hive, using full Lazutin frames for brood and two levels of Langstroth deep frames for honey.
What do you think about instead of building Layens frames with the 4 support wires that sometimes still allow the comb to collapse....I could replace the 4 vertical wires with 2 vertical wood strips which would divide the comb into 3 sections, each 4.06" wide (minus 1/4" for 2 wooden support strips each 1/8" thick). This should still fit in the extractor and would allow for a sturdier comb construction no? Is there a reason I shouldn't try this? Your feedback is much appreciated I've learned a lot from your videos so far.
I had to think about this, considering possible pros and cons. It may be an idea worth trying, but I have some concerns. This is all just speculation on my part so take these either as sage advice or clueless ravings: If someone was wanting to use the frames to harvest cut comb I think this would be a good idea. The wooden dividers would partition the comb nicely to be cut into segments. On some of my frames the bees don't connect the comb to the sides - at least not along the full length - so it's possible they may do the same with the middle dividers. This would leave long narrow strips of comb without much side support. Even if the comb is attached to the dividers, the comb up against the wooden strips would probably be more bridge comb than usable cells so the actual usable area lost would be more than the 1/8" width of the strip. I don't think I would want to use these frames for brood comb because the dividers could affect the bees' ability to form an efficient cluster over winter. Having said all of that, if you do try this I'd be interested to hear how it works out. There may be benefits (or downsides) that neither you nor I have considered. As for the comb collapse, I think we had a perfect storm last year of a strong nectar flow in spring, during which the bees built a lot of new comb and stored a lot of nectar, immediately interrupted by a sudden, severe heat wave. The new, soft comb heavy with nectar and honey was particularly susceptible to give way once it warmed up. That's my theory, at least in part. It's possible that adding horizontal wires to the frames, along with the vertical wires, might provides some benefit. I'm also considering insulating my (currently ventilated) hive roofs to reduce the amount of radiant heat that passes into the hive when the sun is above.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Thanks for your feedback! I had wondered about it being an issue for the cluster over winter. I'm only getting started I don't even have bees yet. Maybe I'll do the traditional Layens frame for most panels but make a couple with the extra wood reinforcement strips to see what happens. Planning on setting out my swarm bate hives this week!
I don't have a video for that, yet, but it's pretty easy to make a 12 frame Layens out of 2 10 frame Langstroth deep boxes: 1. Stack the boxes and measure the interior length of the long sides and the height from the bottom to the edge of the top frame rail. Cut 2 pieces of 1/2" plywood to those dimensions. 2. Screw the plywood to the inside of the long sides with exterior screws. This will tie the boxes together. The top of the plywood should be even with the frame rail on the short ends of the boxes. The plywood will become the frame rail for the Layens frames. 3. With the plywood in place you should be able to hang 12 Layens frames, turned 90 degrees to the Langstroth orientation. You could attach a floor and drill a new entrance, or just use a Langstroth bottom board. You can still use the Langstroth lid, too. (Stealth Layens hive) If you want a longer hive you could cut the short ends off of the Langstroth boxes and attach them together at the open ends, tying the boxes together with a single piece of plywood on each side. Depending on how & where you make the cuts this will give a 20+ frame hive. Obviously it won't be insulated (unless you add that on the outside) but it's a great way to reuse old equipment.
Good morning I am a French beekeeper and here we are worried about the arrival of the small hive beetle. I saw you had it and don't seem to care. How do you deal with the small hive beetle?
The small hive beetle is certainly a pest, and can be damaging, but a strong hive can usually keep them in control. Some people will say that their colony died due to small hive beetles (or wax moths), but the fact is that SHB take over only if a hive is too weak to control them (and wax moths move in when a colony is dying or already dead). I have had hives overtaken by the beetles, but only when those hives were weak already. I usually find SHB on the end frames, or on top of the frames, away from the main population of bees. The bees will actually build propolis walls to keep the SHB contained, and I've been guilty of breaking open their containers during hive inspections and releasing the beetles. Having said that, the SHB can be detrimental to the hive and the honey. While I'm a proponent of letting the bees handle things independently - as they would in a natural hive - I'm strongly considering adding beetle traps to my hives this year. It won't eliminate the beetles but maybe will reduce their numbers so that the bees will have to do less to manage them.
I assume you mean in the first hive I inspected? From my angle I didn't even notice those until I was editing the video. I'm guessing it's just some bees that went up to the lid and died in between the lid and the box, and maybe just weren't noticeable or accessible to the undertaker bees. Maybe they got lost and were trying to get out through the lid vents.
You can place the frames you remove outside the hive for the bees to clean up after you extract the honey or if it’s a small amount and you don’t want to bother with it. For the winter store the frames in a closed bin and store in a cool place. Leaving unused frames can cause too much moisture in the hive and invite unwanted pests. I have a spare hive outside so I will store my extra frames in that but will make sure to seal off all openings. Once you remove the extra frames place an end board at the end of the frames inside the hive to limit the amount of space the bees need to keep warm.
You could store empty frames or frames with bare foundation. I would not store frames with drawn out comb - it could attract and harbor wax moths and/or small hive beetles, or even small rodents.
Been watching your videos for over an hour now and I absolutely love them! Keep it up!😆
I have been researching Beekeepers for two years to prepare. I have learned more from watching your videos in the last three hours! Your awesome! Thank you. :-)
Wow, thank you so much for your kind words! I may have to buy a new hat, now, for my swelled head. 😁 I am very glad that you've found the videos useful. Thank you for watching!
As always a fantastic video my friend. One thing I would add for people, is in the winterization, if your in a cold climate and you are adding the pillow or blanket extra for the extra insulation when you wrap it down over the follower board you need to leave an air gap. If you do not the moisture can build up inside the hive and you can loss your hive.
Yep! Happened to me
Great video,thank you. My first year w/bees, chose the Layens hives. Caught my bees in the spring, have one hive from them. My bees are very fiesty! Even with light smoking they swarmed me in large numbers. I never got as far as checking the brood frames because if that. I did remove a couple empty/ low build out frames from the end and 2 frames with a decent amount of capped honey. Left 8 frames for the winter that had 5+ inches of honey build out on them. It was very helpful to see how your frames looked compared to what I saw in mine today.
In what part of the country do you live? Are you in an area where Africanized bees are likely? I've been fortunate - all of my colonies have been pretty gentle to work unless they are under some stress (like the robbing in Taj Mahive hive 1) or until they get big (which is typical).
I’m in Massachusetts. Ya, your bees looked pretty quiet considering. I’m not certain what type I caught, seems like a mix.
Could be some Russian genetics - I've heard they can be touchy, but also very robust bees. Mine are all purebreed Missouri Mutts. 😁
It’s interesting that you’re comfortable with three or four inches of hone on top. I’ve kept Langstroth for close to twenty five years. We need seventy pounds for winter. Basically the top deep needs to be plugged up.
The simplicity of preparing the Layens hives for winter was one of the things that convinced me of their merit. But besides the mechanics it really comes down to a philosophical difference.
In Reverend Langstroth's writings he keeps coming back to the idea that God ordained that men should master the honeybees for our benefit. But the more we put this mastery/management of the hives on ourselves the more responsibility we bear to control the resources within the hives throughout the year.
In contrast, Georges de Layens promoted the idea of keeping bees, acclimated to your area, in suitable hives which allow them to flourish by their nature. The Layens hive, with continuous deep frames, better approximates the continuous comb within a natural hive. As long as the bees are acclimated to the local area, so are in sync with the nectar flows and climate, they will store up resources in the hive as they would if they were in the wild. In our area (Missouri) that translates to about 3-5 inches at the top of the frame. not counting what is on the edges. I suspect that, farther north, local bees will naturally store up more honey. Farther south they might store less; using more of the frames, longer, for brood production. So it's not really about the specific numbers but about trusting the bees to store what they need.
Having said that, I will also say that I've been astounded by how little honey the bees use during winter in the insulated hives. This makes sense because if they use fewer calories to maintain their cluster temperature then they don't need to consume as much.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Appreciate you're responding to my comments on multiples of videos. That sounds like a good response. I'm looking to switch to Layens' in the next year or two. It'll take me time to build the hive boxes.
Question for you. I want to use 2x10's instead of the insulated hive. Your opinion?
@@beebob1279 building with 2x10s would be faster, but wood has only about 1/3 the R value of wool. That's one reason I prefer the insulated 20 frame hives.
Having said that, I've successfully overwintered bees in converted Langstroth boxes with only a little additional wood cladding.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Thanks for the information. I'll re-think how I'm going to build these.
Thanks for a wonderful video. I like all your videos but especially enjoyed this one.
Thanks for sharing!
I just recently purchased a horizontal Hive and have been reading the books and watching many videos.
I noticed you didn't have Foundation on your frames do you use a bead of wax at the top of the frame?
When you started, did you purchase bees or catch a wild swarm?
I use a strip of wax foundation at the top of the frames. Initially I used 1" starter strips but found that those sagged too much when they got warm. Now I use about 3" of starter and let the bees build out the rest of the comb.
My first colony came from a trap-out from a tree and I've made multiple colonies from that original. Others came from caught swarms or cut-outs.
Thank you so much for your time, response and knowledge!
So bc the bees are wild, you don't address the bugs bc they will take care of themselves or do you use some method?
How long should I keep a trap hive in a tree if a don't catch bees?
@@trevormcnutt9756 if the bees have survived in feral colonies and are strong enough to cast swarms then it suggests that they have traits to manage Varroa mites on their own without intervention. But catching a swarm does not guarantee it came from a feral colony or how long it has survived. You are correct that I don't treat my hives. That is partly because I trust them to have good Varroa resistance (which they have demonstrated) but also to remove the genetics of those colonies which do not manage Varroa themselves. I discuss my treatment-free approach more in this video: ua-cam.com/video/2Q-Ml_3sKhk/v-deo.html
As for the swarm traps, depending on your area the primary swarm season ends around July. Swarms can be cast throughout the year, but late season swarms have less chance of survival, depending on your climate.
My experience with the layens is less frames is more. If I went over 10 or 11 they wouldn't build out frames completely or they wouldn't cap full frames by fall.
I let the bees decide how many frames are needed. The size/strength of the colony combined with the strength and length of the honeyflow is really the determining factor. Obviously we all want strong colonies and a good strong honeyflows, but that changes year to year and hive to hive.
So why not just leave them all the honey for the winter and then take what ever they didn’t eat, after the winter is over?
There's not really a benefit to leaving more than the bees need, and if leaving extra frames leaves more space than the bees can effectively protect over winter it introduces a risk of something else getting to those frames: rodents, small hive beetles, wax moths, roaches, etc. If someone is insecure whether the honey left will be enough, it would be better to put extra frames in the freezer until spring than leaving them in the hive.
My word, a beekeeper who knows how to do a video! Wonderful! I expected five minutes of dialog before getting to the video, and then a moderately speedy dialog as you go through the frames. Again interesting and helpful. I have subscribed!
Thank you so much! Video production is not my field, but I'm trying to learn and apply how to make my videos useful and engaging. I'm still learning but your feedback lets me know that I'm on the right track.
@@SuburbanSodbuster I agree with Paul. In many videos we are told extensively what we are going to see before we get around to actually seeing anything.
I am confused as to how you extract honey from the fixed double frames that are being used, are you cutting up the frames?
For the Layens frames that I use I have a SAF Regata extractor, which is demonstrated at the end of this video. But I think you're referring to the Lazutin style frames (as wide as Langstroth but twice as deep) which I show in my frame comparison video. For those frames there is no extractor (that I know of) so for a full frame cutting and crushing the comb is about the only way. Some have connected two Langstroth deep frames together so that they can be separated for use in a Langstroth extractor. Others have used a double-deep hive, using full Lazutin frames for brood and two levels of Langstroth deep frames for honey.
What do you think about instead of building Layens frames with the 4 support wires that sometimes still allow the comb to collapse....I could replace the 4 vertical wires with 2 vertical wood strips which would divide the comb into 3 sections, each 4.06" wide (minus 1/4" for 2 wooden support strips each 1/8" thick). This should still fit in the extractor and would allow for a sturdier comb construction no? Is there a reason I shouldn't try this? Your feedback is much appreciated I've learned a lot from your videos so far.
I had to think about this, considering possible pros and cons. It may be an idea worth trying, but I have some concerns. This is all just speculation on my part so take these either as sage advice or clueless ravings:
If someone was wanting to use the frames to harvest cut comb I think this would be a good idea. The wooden dividers would partition the comb nicely to be cut into segments. On some of my frames the bees don't connect the comb to the sides - at least not along the full length - so it's possible they may do the same with the middle dividers. This would leave long narrow strips of comb without much side support. Even if the comb is attached to the dividers, the comb up against the wooden strips would probably be more bridge comb than usable cells so the actual usable area lost would be more than the 1/8" width of the strip. I don't think I would want to use these frames for brood comb because the dividers could affect the bees' ability to form an efficient cluster over winter.
Having said all of that, if you do try this I'd be interested to hear how it works out. There may be benefits (or downsides) that neither you nor I have considered.
As for the comb collapse, I think we had a perfect storm last year of a strong nectar flow in spring, during which the bees built a lot of new comb and stored a lot of nectar, immediately interrupted by a sudden, severe heat wave. The new, soft comb heavy with nectar and honey was particularly susceptible to give way once it warmed up. That's my theory, at least in part. It's possible that adding horizontal wires to the frames, along with the vertical wires, might provides some benefit. I'm also considering insulating my (currently ventilated) hive roofs to reduce the amount of radiant heat that passes into the hive when the sun is above.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Thanks for your feedback! I had wondered about it being an issue for the cluster over winter. I'm only getting started I don't even have bees yet. Maybe I'll do the traditional Layens frame for most panels but make a couple with the extra wood reinforcement strips to see what happens. Planning on setting out my swarm bate hives this week!
Is there a video of Lang conversation into a layens? I have all these Lang’s hanging around since going to layens.
I don't have a video for that, yet, but it's pretty easy to make a 12 frame Layens out of 2 10 frame Langstroth deep boxes:
1. Stack the boxes and measure the interior length of the long sides and the height from the bottom to the edge of the top frame rail. Cut 2 pieces of 1/2" plywood to those dimensions.
2. Screw the plywood to the inside of the long sides with exterior screws. This will tie the boxes together. The top of the plywood should be even with the frame rail on the short ends of the boxes. The plywood will become the frame rail for the Layens frames.
3. With the plywood in place you should be able to hang 12 Layens frames, turned 90 degrees to the Langstroth orientation. You could attach a floor and drill a new entrance, or just use a Langstroth bottom board. You can still use the Langstroth lid, too. (Stealth Layens hive)
If you want a longer hive you could cut the short ends off of the Langstroth boxes and attach them together at the open ends, tying the boxes together with a single piece of plywood on each side. Depending on how & where you make the cuts this will give a 20+ frame hive. Obviously it won't be insulated (unless you add that on the outside) but it's a great way to reuse old equipment.
@@SuburbanSodbuster thank you so much for this.
Good morning
I am a French beekeeper and here we are worried about the arrival of the small hive beetle. I saw you had it and don't seem to care. How do you deal with the small hive beetle?
The small hive beetle is certainly a pest, and can be damaging, but a strong hive can usually keep them in control. Some people will say that their colony died due to small hive beetles (or wax moths), but the fact is that SHB take over only if a hive is too weak to control them (and wax moths move in when a colony is dying or already dead). I have had hives overtaken by the beetles, but only when those hives were weak already. I usually find SHB on the end frames, or on top of the frames, away from the main population of bees. The bees will actually build propolis walls to keep the SHB contained, and I've been guilty of breaking open their containers during hive inspections and releasing the beetles.
Having said that, the SHB can be detrimental to the hive and the honey. While I'm a proponent of letting the bees handle things independently - as they would in a natural hive - I'm strongly considering adding beetle traps to my hives this year. It won't eliminate the beetles but maybe will reduce their numbers so that the bees will have to do less to manage them.
You must not have cold winters
Hi:
Great videos .. how do you extract honey ?
do you cut the combs or have an extractor ?
I use a SAF Regata extractor to extract the honey. In the video you can see the extraction process beginning at 22:54.
Can you tell me about the dead bees on the edge of the hive?
I assume you mean in the first hive I inspected? From my angle I didn't even notice those until I was editing the video. I'm guessing it's just some bees that went up to the lid and died in between the lid and the box, and maybe just weren't noticeable or accessible to the undertaker bees. Maybe they got lost and were trying to get out through the lid vents.
Another great video, thanks for sharing! What do you do with the empty space? Is it ok to store frames there in the winter? Thanks
You can place the frames you remove outside the hive for the bees to clean up after you extract the honey or if it’s a small amount and you don’t want to bother with it. For the winter store the frames in a closed bin and store in a cool place. Leaving unused frames can cause too much moisture in the hive and invite unwanted pests. I have a spare hive outside so I will store my extra frames in that but will make sure to seal off all openings. Once you remove the extra frames place an end board at the end of the frames inside the hive to limit the amount of space the bees need to keep warm.
You could store empty frames or frames with bare foundation. I would not store frames with drawn out comb - it could attract and harbor wax moths and/or small hive beetles, or even small rodents.
Great video! What state are you in?
Missouri