As far as the “reusing entire worlds” criticism goes 34:30 I feel like most people gave 358/2 Days a pass because they managed to put nearly all of a PS2 games explorable worlds on a cartridge the size of a cheez-it. That’s what shocked me the most playing the game as a kid. It felt like a console game sized world on the go. I loved this game growing up and it was actually my favorite in the series at the time. As much nostalgia ad I have for it, I do think your critiques do display the many shortcomings of Days. Keep up the good work! 👍
Pretty much yeah. Days was the first time Square was able to give us a portable game that felt similar enough to the console games so to be able to revisit all those worlds on the go was quite magical, especially compared to COM were the level design was nothing like the originals. As a kid that's all I needed, especially since some parts of the level design was also change to make it feel like it was still kinda new. Now I can see that it was usually nothing special outside of Neverland and the cavern of Wonders but at the time? I couldn't ask for more!
That section at the end really hit the nail on the head for me. I have a love for this game because of the exact time in my life that ive played it. I was going through an abusive time in my life and as a confused teenager wondering what the point to his life was and why he had to deal with the suffering in it really helped me connect to this game. Having a few hours a day to escape away to this game and play a few missions even for a bit got me to resonate with the story a lot. Growing up and being in a better place I never touched the game again but I remeber it fondly for the perfect storm of helping me through tough times. Nostalgia is a core part of this game and while it doesnt hold up im so glad I played it as a kid.
Without even seeing the part I’m gunna guess on what it is. The part when he’s asking for answers from axel and he walks away from the organization for the first time.
So, I dont agree with the argument that the game is bad on purpose. But KingK brought up a good point in his video. That the tedium of the gameplay makes it feel like work. And he liked the game in spite of its issues.
I really like the Ariel based keyblades. When you finish off a combo they do more damage than the higher power ones and feel more fun to play with. The thing I've noticed is people really hate the combat because they end up picking a slower clunkier keyblade that does more damage instead of a more fun with higher combo potential that technically does more if you pull up a full combo. When you have a good area-based keyblade along with a bunch of air dash is equipped it actually makes the combat surprisingly fun fast-paced and like you have a lot of control over the combos and your ability to dodge bosses mid combo. People are stubborn in instead of experimenting they just pick the keyblade with the higher powerstat and wonder why it takes so long to kill everything and why they have a tough time getting there combos to hit.
Yeah I ended up learning that unfortunately near 20+ hours in lol😅. But experimentation is important and unfortunately some of the longer combos kind of suck
1:03:07 I think if’s pretty unhealthy to be seeking perfection in anything. Because perfection is an ideal not reality. Critique your darlings, if somehow your opinion changes, that means it wasn’t as important as you thought. I mean, you just talked about how you hate to admit you were into MLP, but still enjoy music from the community and embrace aspects of it. Why can’t you do that with KH? I mean, I think it’s pretty cringe sometimes, but I still love it.
Y’know. Out of the entire roster of KH characters, Roxas and Xion were the only ones that ever made me feel anything. And I never even played Days. Roxas when he said that summer vacation is over. Xion when you have to fight her, especially with the music accompaniment. It’s that forlorn sort of nostalgia where you remember the simpler times, but know they’ll never come back. And it makes me sad.
When playing through the series, I tried to explain the nostalgia thing with Twilight Town to my friend since I never grew up with it but she did. And the world and music still made me feel nostalgia. Then, hearing the song you used in the middle of the nostalgia bit floored me as someone who also grew up with it. And I followed along with every bit following that explanation. I was not ready to cry during this video.
So apologies in advance for the long ass comment, but I'm just really passionate about Days and, well, Video Good. But feel free to skim through this one or ignore it entirely lmao I've been working on an extensive analysis of this game and I definitely appreciate the depth that you went to actually critically talk about this game in a fair way that doesn't immediately dismiss it for being itself, and honestly most of the gamplay criticisms you have are really fair. A small nitpick I have is that you mentioned you can't customize party member behavior, when you actually can! I always hated that idea about the gameplay "being boring" being, intentionally or not, complementary to the story. I think this idea started floating around more after KingK's video essay on Days, but regardless of that, I just don't agree with it for a very simple reason- I actually don't find the gameplay boring at all? While I can see why someone could get bored with it, I think exploring the panel system and its possibilities, especially with magic, makes the game super fun to blast through. Like, I often see people talk about how they HATE the panel system, how it makes magic useless because you can barely use it and whatnot, but I think you're the only other person I've ever seen point out how like- ethers are a thing, and you're supposed to carry out a diverse cast of magic spells per mission to make most use of those restoring items. Another thing I think makes this system really fun to play around is studying enemy behavior, how spells affect different enemies, and optimal ways to defeat them. You'd be surprised how much personality some of these mobs have if you observe them or read their journal entries, and how many creative ways there are of taking enemies out. So you know how you mentioned that you can't use spells while one is still being cast? While that's true, you can mix and match status effect caused by previous spells with different ones for maximum damage. Using a fireball on a frozen enemy, or casting thunder on and air-tossed enemy is so satisfying. Using thunder on a cornered enemy and seeing their HP get shredded is the best. Sure, none of this is exactly grounds for "best game ever", but I think so much of Days gets overlooked- there's more to its gameplay than the average person would give it credit, and I think it's a system that's worth exploring and screwing around with. Hell, when you say you heavily disencourage lv1 runs of this game, I totally disagree. A glass cannon mega powerful mage setup with Roxas, with so much more room for carrying out magic doublers and lv ups, all the skills and items you'd possible need- that's super fun to play around with! I think the part I most disagree with you on this video is when you mention there's no reason to play it with the HD movie existing. I think even aside from the gameplay stuff, so much of the heart, and humor of the character interactions gets lost and abridged in the movie, so much of the more subtle nuance of the themes gets lost in translation (and imo, even the tone of certain scenes and lines got butchered in the movie, as well with how certain scenes are framed in a camera sense). Overall, even with the disagreements, I do appreciate that these are clearly your very earnest impressions and opinions and not just the same old parroted ideas people have of the game without even giving it a chance. Was a great watch!
Best way to experience days is to play it, even if you play it on easy mode. if you can’t do that the novel is A-OK but a lot of people don’t wanna read a book for a video game series. The manga is great but the same issue applies. Actually the novel has a bunch of extra details, getting to hear exactly what’s inside Roxas’ head is pretty great.
While I agree that the movie version of this is probably a better choice, considering the game play is bad... but... I watched the whole movie, and... I just wanted it to end. Half way through I wanted to turn it off. Probably half the reason is cause of the still image text sections, that just felt so tacked on. I pushed myself through it and I regretted it after it finished. But playing the game I was interested and invested in the story. Its a different experience. I believe If the entire kingdom hearts series was just movies, it would be a boring flop.
Yeah no doubt about that. Frankly, I think I enjoyed the movie more because I had the game’s story already in my head, so I knew where it was going and could enjoy watching the important scenes play out. But yeah, it was likely too long/cheap/boring. Kind of wish I had gone into more detail on this point in the video but eh, what’ll yah do
Very aptly put, and the ending kinda reflects a lot of how I feel about this series in hindsight in a post-KH3 world. Days in particular is a title I sunk a lot of time into back in 2009. Only having experienced it through the cutscene compilations and the Everglow timeline videos since then, I decided to go back to revisit the DS version last year out of sheer curiosity. Only be crushed when I remembered how dull it was to actually play. It's frustrating because I think it has one of the strongest narratives in the series up there with KH1 and the castle segments of CoM but the cutscene compilation itself also doesn't replicate the full experience, particularly in reference to the significance of the final fights with Saix, Xion and Riku. Also the "it's mundane on purpose" thing is absolutely a post-hoc cope argument. It's the game design equivalent of "It's supposed to be dumb and not make sense"
Just found your channel recently; the deep dive has been super fun. The videogame video-essay UA-cam ethos is fairly saturated, but you're doing really really great work. Keep it up dawgy & this channel will be huge.
The "it's boring on purpose!" thing is a massive cope alright.. The game's dull because of the mission structure, being a game for a mobile device designed for short play sessions, and the whole "each day is a mission" gimmick, and the combat just isn't complex enough for it. Honestly, I think they missed out on a way to make the story mode a lot more interesting by letting you play as the other Org XIII members. They're all already playable, just only in the multiplayer mission mode! If you were allowed or forced to play as them once in a while, I think it'd do wonders for the game. But... I kinda get why people say it. The game does a very good job of endearing you to the characters through all of the drudgery. Amidst the boring missions there are so many crumbles of character interactions that keep poking at you, all culminating in the final section of the game. Somehow the cutscene movie just doesn't do the story justice. People whose only experience with 358/2 was the movie seem to not care that much about the Roxas/Axel/Xion trio, and it's very easy to find people making fun of the "who will I have ice cream with" line. The limited context the movie gives you does make it sound pretty silly. Perhaps this is more of a big fault of the cutscene movie than a great achievement of the game, but the game does a much better job of making the player understand the characters, motivations, and why they say the things they say.
I haven't replayed this game in a long while but it will always hold a special place in my heart as my intro to the KH series after renting it from Blockbuster as a kid those were the days
Great retrospective! I would agree that I don't think Square Enix made the gameplay boring or repetitive on purpose but it is oddly one of the few cases where, I personally think, it adds to the whole experience unintentionally and perfectly. I looked forward to completing these dull tasks because I looked forward to the cutscene at the end of it and the chance of having ice cream with Xion and Axel...exactly how Roxas would be feeling.
About your complaint about reusing world layouts: one series that I know of that does something similarly is the Yakuza/Like A Dragon series. You're basically revisiting the same city in each game, but at different points in time. Like you're going back to your home town and seeing what's different from the last time you saw it.
You can customize party members. You can change who they target and how they use their resources. Its not as complicated as KH1 or KH2, but they are there.
Love this game and I've replayed it for the story more than the gameplay not that I think its terrible or boring as others, for me this is impressive for a DS game. I see a lot of younger streamers now playing KH and some opt to just watch the movie, I always say play the game, the movie does not do it justice at all. One point that is really fascinating is that the Nobodies do have hearts, Xemnas lied to them.
Great video, Tetra. This game was also the last Kingdom Hearts game I played when I was growing up. I remember really liking it though. I remember thinking it was so cool to be able to play from Roxas's perspective, and I had a lot more free time back then, so I didn't mind the grind of the mission structure. I'm unsure if I ever grasped all of the mechanical nuances of the game. I think I just liked running around the worlds as Sora's slightly edgier counterpart (not to be confused with Ventus' edgier counterpart who's twinsies with Sora 🤭). It was also fun having, effectively, a buddy system with the Organization members on missions. I do think the gradual build of the characters over the course of the game will endear players to them more and give more significance to the story beats. As a bunch of cutscenes you experience fairly quickly, Roxas saying "Who will I eat ice cream with?!" sounds comedic, but if you've been playing through the game, experiencing the whole journey step by step, and really earning each of those ice cream socials, it hurts. Even watching some of the cutscenes in this video practically had me sobbing. A portion of it is nostalgia and musical composition, but Kingdom Hearts is so good at invoking feelings. Even if it doesn't always make sense, it can usually make you empathize with the characters and feel for them. At least, it did for me for I, II, and 358/2 Days.
The beauty of the KH story, a lot of things that feel similar but worse can be linked to roxas being soras nobody. He has soras muscle memory, but he's basically a newborn child. Attacks don't hit the same? Roxas knows the motion but not the weight behind them. Sora swings for his friends, Roxas swings because he was told to. Magic being insanely strong? Roxas is SORAS nobody, you know, the same guy whose been traveling with the strongest red mage in FF Canon? (Yes, I still have strong feelings about Donald using ZetaFlare) The movement not being as smooth? Roxas is still getting comfortable as a new body, learning about himself, finding comfort in his (no)body. Thematically, the flaws of this game fit narratively which makes them a lot easier to overlook to me. Honestly, this might be the best stand alone kingdom hearts game EXCLUSIVELY from a story perspective and the more you know about the franchise, the more weight the story beats carry. Axel alone has more character development in this game than MOST any other character gets in a single game in this franchise. You see how he changes after COM, you see how he just wants to build a connection with someone. From siax to roxas to xion, you see him trying to form a bond and connect back to his humanity, then they show you how he responded to seeing those bonds being manipulative (siax using axel to rise in the organization), temporary (xion's whole existence), or severed because peoples goals and life take them in different directions (roxas). Which leads perfectly into the character he is in KH2 AND makes his actions so much more real and justifiable. Idk, that's just one example, I could write a book on this game, it's my favorite in the franchise.
This game is bad but I can’t say that I wasn’t affected by the story. This game wanted a gut emotional punch and it didn’t hold back. You know it’s gonna have a sad ending, yet there is this bond between the three characters that you don’t want to destroy.
I think many of us grew up with JRPGs or MMOs, and are nostalgic for them as a result, but good lord I cannot love a game that doesn't respect the player's time anymore: even if the gameplay is amazing, going around beating up random Heartless a bunch just sucks as a concept.
i am absolutely in love with the long ass rant in the beginning of the vieo that has nothing to do about the game, im here for it (as a fan of days, yes, i agree)
I just came across your channel a couple days ago and proceeded to binge all of your currently uploaded KH retrospective videos. Admittedly I checked to see how many games were covered and whether more were on their way before watching past the KH1 video. When I saw the community post for BBS I knew I was on board. I’ll start by saying that I don’t agree with everything you have to say and disagree with part of your criteria. However, I greatly appreciate these videos. It’s clear that you have a love and passion for this series and you’ve voiced many of the same criticisms I share. The writing of this series of games was so strong and is what compelled me to stick with it for so long. That is until DDD (and in hindsight the cracks were far too numerous in BBS). Your gameplay critiques are fantastic as well. I remember playing 358/2 and having a really good time with it, not really being able to put it down because of how engrossing I felt the story was. As far as gameplay though, it is often boring and monotonous and I’ve never understood the defense from fans claiming that’s the intent. So thank you for really highlighting that aspect. For me, I still largely enjoyed the combat and especially the panel system overall when I played it. The biggest reason, and where I think my opinion significantly diverges from yours is that I enjoy it for what it is as opposed to disliking it for what it isn’t. It felt groundbreaking to have something that so closely emulated traditional kingdom hearts combat, but on the DS. A system that had significant restraints. You compare it heavily to RE:Coded claiming that the developers should have been more capable since Re:Coded was better in terms of gameplay. To me that’s an unfair comparison since 358/2 was the developers first go at translating KH onto a handheld console. I believe that the way we interpret and appreciate media is heavily impacted by the modes in which it is presented to us. Playing this game on the original hardware will always be a different experience from emulating on something else. You make a similar point in your KH1 video regarding the lighting disrupting the feel of certain scenes in the Dive to the Heart and Destiny Island sequences. You make a similar point again regarding CoM’s original GBA graphics in comparison to RE:CoM. I also strongly disagree with your choice to deliberately play the bulk of this game on mute, as music and sound effects are arguably one the most consistently strong hallmarks of the KH franchise. But like I said, I appreciate your videos on this series. It is refreshing to hear opinions that don’t sound like they’ve been bouncing around the same stale echo chambers for over a decade. I’m very excited to see the rest of your retrospective videos as they come. Keep it up!
Hey, I'm late to the party This is the game that introduced KH to me. THis is the game of my childhood. I still remember time optimizing my panel arrangement and trying to fit as much in my backpack as I could Thank you. Thank you for this video and the respect you gave to this title, even despite all its flaws I might not have the Winner one, but I'm happy to share this sea salt ice cream with all of you Fantastic work by the way Cheers
I am bothered by a number of things with Days as a game. Why is Xion a reskin of Roxas, yet she goes unplayed in thr story despite all of her important beats? Why are the CoM members not expanded upon? Why is Roxas dumbed down from how he was portrayed in KH2 as a person seeking answers constantly to "muh ice cream" until almost the end of the game? Why is there an elemental affinity for each Organization member in the game, but not a list of magic spells that tie into each so you aren't doing something weird like being unable to use Earth magic as Lexaeus?
I disagree with the idea that you should watch the cutscenes instead of playing the game itself. The cutscene movie will ruin your experience with the story because the gameplay is a crucial part of the storytelling. And by that, I don't mean that "the game is boring, just like how Roxas is bored". Whether or not a game is boring is subjective and is always going to be a complete non-argument in whether or not a game is good, mediocre or bad because an individual's subjective feelings and preferences have nothing to do with a game's quality (I think Dark Souls 3 is boring as piss, especially as a 100%, but that doesn't mean that the game is terrible. I just don't like it very much, even in co-op, which is how I have the most fun in the Souls games). I mean that the missions, the combat, etc, put you into the shoes of the characters very well. A notable example of this is the mission where Roxas decides to give Xion his keyblade so she can relearn how to use it, foregoing more practical combat in favor of picking up a random stick with magical powers off of the ground and using that to fight instead. You then proceed to cast fireballs with your wooden stick for the rest of the mission while you fight alongside Xion collecting hearts in Beast's Castle, which puts you on the backfoot but allows you to see Xion learning how to use the keyblade on the go. It's a mission with a lot of great character moments built off of some previous missions and their respective story moments for that plot thread, and thanks to it and multiple other missions tied to the plot thread of Xion forgetting how to use the keyblade, the plot thread in question ends with a good payoff that develops the characters and drives the story forward in an interesting way that would not have occurred if the events of those missions did not take place, because Xion can never be humiliated by Riku if she doesn't figure out how to use the keyblade again, their bonds never become even deeper from this thread and so the rift between them that is created at the end of the game cannot be as large, etc. This mission, like many other ones, is absent in the cutscene collection, and because it was cut both from a cutscene and gameplay perspective, various payoffs and twists in the story aren't as effective as they really need to be in order for those story beats to work as intended. Too many times have I seen or heard people watch the cutscene movie as their first experience with this game's story and simply not care about anything that's happening in the story, including Xion's death. The gameplay allows you to get closer with the characters and it works as a way to bring you into the key character conflicts and development, as well as the plot, which the cutscene movie outright fails to accomplish because you're not experiencing the story so much as you are spectating select parts of it without any emotions other than perhaps complete boredom and disinterest. The cutscene movie doesn't convey the story in a way that allows you to connect with the characters, even if you're someone who loves the story from the original game and first experienced it on the DS or in an emulator. I think anyone who's interested in this game should play it at least once on their preferred difficulty of choice for the story alone if it's their first time through. After that it's up to them whether or not they want to replay the game from time to time. Personally, I enjoy the game despite its issues, so I don't mind replaying it occasionally. A couple years ago I actually bit the bullet and 100% completed the game on Proud Mode, though I did use save states for a couple of the more ridiculous challenge missions. I think I'd sooner do another 100% of 358/2 Days over another True 100% of BBSFM, if I'm being honest.
I'll be real. Whether intentional or not, whether design-wise it's a good idea or not, the way the game is designed in terms of story/gameplay structure, still brings the actual story into more acute focus in spite of its shortcomings. Whether intentional or not, having to go through a day of work, and looking forward to the end of the day, because there's story progression there, makes perfect sense. The story truly does not manage to hit the same high points when diluted to simple cutscenes, because the cutscenes are not given the time and context needed to breathe. If you're ever read or watched Spice & Wolf, the problem is the same. The anime misses the context of the main character's thoughts, and those thoughts, that context, is what directly drives the story and emotional structure of that series. Without the main character's thoughts, without delving into his mind, the actions Holo takes, the way she makes him feel, is lost, and with it, most of the potency of the story in saying what it means to say. I understand what you're saying, but this would not be, and will not be the last time that a game is designed and structured in a way that doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable from the outset. The same can be said with music. If you listen to Cardiacs for example, their music is WAY out there. At a first listen it's like a cacophony in a lot of cases. But then you realize it's all very much intentionally crafted to be exactly the way it is. You start to look into the music, and start to realize why it is the way it is, and what was intended with it. It's not necessarily that the game is a bad game, but not a game that will appeal in the same way as the others in the franchise with many. I won't argue that the actual combat isn't necessarily the best in the franchise, far from it, but it's also not the worst by a long-shot. Dream Drop Distance comes to mind, as enemies react even less to you than they do in Days, and it feels like your only option is the limited flow-motion. Similarly, just looking at the way the keyblades work in Days, as well as subsequently RE:Coded, is, objectively, beyond the floatiness likely inherent from the system it was made for, better than Kingdom Hearts 1. There's more varied combos per keyblade. You can level them up, therefore keep using the ones you like, or mix & match, as they did in KH3 much later. There's even times where you can use Y to vary up your combo depending on the keyblade, and the keyblade's combos/abilities act as more varied abilities than in KH1. If you also consider how broken COM is, it also has a leg-up there in many departments, and it did some really cool things with upgrades to abilities like dodge and block.
Yeah, I’ve actually renounced my statement on this game’s gameplay structure somewhat since this video came out, though not to the extreme of saying it’s a good thing. I still don’t think designing the gameplay to be intentionally boring in a series like kingdom hearts (as in, it’s a mass marketed major franchise) is a valid approach, but it does improve the story for sure. I’ll make a video about stuff I got wrong sometime soon, it’ll probably be the last video before the KH3 video comes out. Tho, you kinda lost me when you said the functionality of the keyblades is objectively better in days over kh1. Complexity doesn’t necessarily equate to more good, and I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with the way they were handled in kh1, being basically just stat increases like any other accessory. Even if the system in days had been implemented into a game with decent feel or compelling structure, I don’t think I’d call it objectively better because kh1’s system isn’t bad, it’s just simple, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s easier to balance for one thing, and KH1, like many action rpgs, opted for complexity in the enemies over complexity on the part of the player’s moveset. Future games in the series would strike a better balance than KH1 in this regard but there’s nothing wrong with the way it was back then, it’s just different. Besides, don’t you think it’s possible the forced combo alterations could get in the way? Take kh1’s system, where keyblades had improvements to your base stats, but also had hidden stats like reach and stability. Say I like the Metal Chocobo for its reach and stability but I hate that keyblade’s combo alterations. Guess I’ll never use it? I like KH1’s keyblade system because not every keyblade could be best for any given job, despite perhaps having the highest stats, because there was more to it than just those stats. And they expected you to change your playstyle to fit the keyblade’s quirks, i.e. if you equipped the fairy harp you weren’t going to be nearly as successful in physical combat, so use spells and summons and try to avoid physical if you can. If the fairy harp had some rinkydink combo it would accomplish the same goal, but consider how in Days the “bad” combos were actually in a lot of cases the safest options and you’ll see how that can quickly get undermined by trying to inject too much complexity. Idk, it’s 6 am and I’m rambling at this point, I just don’t agree that injecting forced complexity into the system is objectively better. It can be better, but complexity is a tool, not the be-all-end-all some people treat it is. I find complexity can sometimes get in the way of making well thought out but simple gameplay at times. One of my favorite games is Hollow Knight and it, even by the end, has a pretty basic move set depending on how you use it, but it’s still able to build challenges out of it. As for COM, it’s barely even the same genre as the rest of kh lol. If that game was “balanced” it’d be the dullest game in the series
As fans we are bound to try to give our closest people the same nostalgic value we got out of our loved frenchises. I never could replicate that nostalgia for other people. But for my little brother i just meight have, i got him very early in his life into the series, he was like 8 years old, almost at the same age when i first started playing KH1, i forced him to play on my PC on emulator, so he could expierence the superb german voice acting of that game. He couldn't get used to the controlls and switched to the Final Mix version. He wrote me recently that he finally could beat Riku in KH1 FM, it took him almost 7 years. He meight not going to have the same Nostalgic value to the game then i had, but he will have his own expierence in his developmental years. I never had to face Riku for example but i remember myself needing half a year to finish Final Fantasy VII and it is also very special to me like KH is. I'm just happy i could lead the next generation into loveing the same game i did even tho so many years are apart of that release and his childhood.
I agree about the gameplay being terrible. It was the reason why i never finished it when i was a kid. I only know the story because if videos like this one i watched after the fact. I also never finished DDD, but that was for other reasons really, though to be fair the handles in that game e want great either. I liked the concept of the panel system, as it reminded me of the Navi customizer system in the Battle Network series (though worse, imo). Interested in what you have to say about both BBS and DDD Also it makes me so sad, the multiplayer was something i really wanted t to do, but sure to both the gameplay and the fact that i didn't know anyone else with the game, it sadly never happened. I should look into using an emulator and see how good the netcode is for that
Holy shit that ending, hoooooooly shit. I watch a LOT of video essays and damn you are a gem. Please keep making videos, you deserve 100x the subs you already have
I just started the video, so i gonna leave a comment wondering if all the YT video talk and very detailed explanation of what you did during your day is on purpose is to match the ''Busy work'' vibes from 358/2 days.
You *can* customize the AI partner’s behavior, although it’s extremely limited. Basically, can set them to: - let them do whatever they want - prioritize casting spells over melee combos - do nothing
The music in these games is insane. I hardly know, let alone like, these characters & i'm not fond of the types of conflicts they undergo, but I am completely entranced during their emotional conversations thanks to the soundtrack.
I played this game for a little over 11 hours and am already getting somewhat worn out. I thought it was going to get better eventualy, but this video just got by bullet point every single problem I had so.... I will just skip the ds entries and read the manga lol
When I first saw that it came out I was still in middle school and it happened to be summer so I beat the game in about a week, i even did a bunch of the multiplayer missions solo. Not recommended
I personally disagree with the video being titled an "analysis" when it's more of a subjective review if anything. An analysis, to me, is an overall evaluation of material portrayed through an objective lens, whereas this video is more akin to personal opinions clouding the analysis of the game and leaving things as an interpretative review of the material. What really upsets me is most of what is said from 7:24 to 8:03, where you abridge the panel system as "a big page with square slots." You follow this up by relating it to the ReCoded stat matrix system (in which you also heavy-handedly promoted your ReCoded analysis video), pointing out the physical similarities and claiming that ReCoded simply "took the system and made it better." Immediately following this, you say that "if you see something in this game that reminds you of something in ReCoded, just assume it was done better there." I understand that 358/2 Days and ReCoded were both developed by the same company, but this comment in particular really undermines the differences between the two games and steers the viewer towards a single uniform opinion of ReCoded >> Days. This really disappoints me because I'm a huge fan of both games and I think each game has their own strengths and weaknesses. I seriously appreciate how you attempt to be as neutral as possible throughout the video, but your negative feelings of the game really shine through at certain times and it's very disappointing to watch. This is my first video from your channel that I've watched and I went into this video expecting a strong analysis of 358/2 Days (considering the 60 minute runtime) and was thoroughly disappointed with what I recieved.
I think I might put this video off until later tonight so I can watch it while eating Taco Bell. I feel like that's the correct way to experience it. I am back and have obtained Taco Bell
I could have sworn that Pinocchio was supposed to be in this game. I think there is an unused file of his talk sprite along with Gepeto. Nomura was probably gonna use them as a hint how nobodies or Xion being a puppet too can develop a heart like Pinocchio. I know Nomura overall is a terrible writer but even I have to admit he can make some good foreshadowing.
Did you play it with retroachievements account? There are achievements for both this game and recoded over there. They have achievements for GBA CoM, PSP BBS Final mix with english translation patch, and PS2 KH1 Final mix with traslation patch. They are working on PS2 KH2 Final mix with translation patch.
29:20 you mention that you keep comparing this game to re:coded because it shows how it can be done... But then fail to mention that this game suffers a bit from "first game sysdrome." As you said several re:coded has lots of upgrades comparatively, BECAUSE 358 came first. Yeah, it wasn't the first game on handheld but the first 3D kingdom hearts on DS. It doesn't change the fact that the combat is jank as a hell sometimes but it does make so much sense as to why re:coded plays better because the dev team learned from the failings of 358. If you read all this, thank you and sorry for ranting, but I wanted to say my thoughts.
Genuinely cannot understand why the final mix made chain of memories into a game instead of this when this looks like it could be so easily fixed and yet COM absolutely sucks in every manner other than the plot.
Right, I don't think I phrased that very well. What I meant to say was that he was a test run in order to focus test issues that may occur with Xion, since she was the primary replica plan they wanted to make sure they knew all that they were dealing with
@@Tetramorre Makes sense lol. I guess I was thinking, because this game seems to have the best writing, it wouldn't contribute towards "the fall" I'm glad your making these videos, as I really love kingdom hearts but have many problems with it, especially the most recent stuff. I'm excited to see you cover the recent stuff. The last part of the video hit me. It pains me to see KH fans blindly see these flaws as good, and react violently if anyone critiques the series, saying people don't "understand". I recently ran into this when I posted a critique video I really enjoyed for KH3. I will always say this, but if you truly love a franchise then you will acknowledge the flaws and want better. Instead these people ignore the flaws and come up with headcanon in order to explain away bad writing. Its agonizing. We should have better, not accept the terrible. I love Kingdom Hearts, but I also hate it. The fact that we can see these flaws and want this series to do better, to see these characters shine, for them to develop, and for there to be narrative weight. Is BECAUSE we love them. We want to see them at their best. But now it seems all we get is shit. Excited to see the rest of these Fall of the Kingdom videos.
World reuse destroyed re:coded for me ngl (haven’t played days yet) it’d be above bbs even with the graphics and somewhat weird gameplay sections (i hated the turn based rpg shit and other gimmick stuff) simply because tweaking your experience on the fly with the matrix whatever system was genius and im surprised no indie game made a high risk high reward addicting rougelike out of it
I do legitimately like this game. Especially the combat. It always felt right to me, as someone that strongly favors magic. I would even actively avoid using the keyblade in many missions. Overall i found the world charming despite their size because the story of scoping them out for the organization made sense ro me. I would actually prefer this game to get a remake more than any other. Just removing the level up panels and making level a slider (in case you want to be a certain level, which could have been an optional challenge on some missions) and replace the level panels with stat boosters ala Re:coded. I think there's a lot good and a lot to like about the game, and it feels limited by hardware and time more than anything else.
@@Tetramorre Not with the Arc over. Though I do think it is the kind of insane move the creator would pull. KH: 358 (no over 2) With a modern update and all the areas reimaged. Play the other half of the year as other Org13 members, learn about the Castle Oblivion crew more. Add in spells of every type as the other members have. Add in summons for dusks and the matching higher nobody of each type. Etc etc Oh and online co-op obv
I did not Roundup to help students with their education. 😂 I don't trust that if I want to donate I will donate directly to the charity. They probably skim some of the profits of the donations and write off the rest even though we're paying for it.
I've never played a KH game, but got friends who have gone through the whole series, so I'm really interested in these videos so I can better understand what they are talking about. That said, I'm starting to realize I'm still stuck at comprehending Nobodies, and that is really hindering my ability to understand most of this plot. They supposedly don't exist, but actually do exist in every conceivable way that matters. They supposedly are literally physically unable to have emotions because they don't have hearts, yet frequently show emotions anyway. Even with memories being an excuse, that just shows that they were capable of emotions all along. When so much of the plot is built on the drama surrounding how Nobodies don't exist and don't have emotions, I really struggle to see much value in the story. What can you even build on such a crumbling foundation?
I wouldn’t hasten to criticize the series if you’ve never played it personally. While I try to do a good job of explaining things like the nobodies, much of my understanding of their subtler elements comes from stuff I rarely talk about or show because I have to balance recap with analysis. This is going to be true of basically anyone that does content like mine, and we all balance it in different ways. Roxas is the main way they explain this predicament though, and it’s like I said in the video: at the beginning he’s a zombie of a man, but throughout the game he grows more emotionally connected. The implication is that his relationship with Axel and Xion allows him to develop emotionally even though that should be impossible. I would also argue that “pretending to have emotions because you remember what it’s like” and actually having emotions are not the same thing. Perhaps to the onlooker, aka Sora and team, it would be the same thing, but to the actual nobody they can’t escape the emptiness present within them. Roxas managed to escape that, for a while anyway, until he was called back to his original self. If it makes you feel better though, I’m 99% certain they retcon the nobodies later on to actually having hearts, and Xemnas just lying about them not. Don’t quote me on that because I haven’t gotten that far yet but I think I remember that being a thing.
@@Tetramorre Thanks for the explanation, I feel at least the lack of emotions make a bit more sense. Still don't get what it means that they don't exist though. And I'm fully aware that my perception of these games are limited from not having played them myself, so I'm not exactly trying to criticize the story. It's more that I'm finding some issues and I get frustrated as I can't tell if it's due to my misunderstanding or due to an actual problem with the story. Even my KH playing friends just shrug and tell me the story is a mess, so no answers there either. I hope I didn't come off as needlessly harsh towards you or the series, I know how annoying it can be to deal with bad faith criticism of games you like from people who never even played it. Anyway, your videos are absolutely great and I can't wait to see your future analyses, both of KH and other games!
No worries, not harsh at all. The nobodies are definitely confusing and I think the story (at this point in the series) kind of wants you to wrestle with that fact. Makes it more interesting for me to think about at least. The nobodies “not existing” is definitely odd. The way that it’s sometimes referred to in the series is more the idea that they “don’t deserve to exist”, as in their existence is an abomination to reality.
@@Tetramorre Many of the cutscenes in KH2FM strongly hint at the idea of Nobodies not having hearts being only a temporary situation. Particularly in the scenes you showed in your KH2 review Not going into later games details in the interest of spoilers
Re coded definitely plays worse than days. It may play marginally better Mechanically but the contextual actions you do in game are painfully dull. Is to this day the only Kingdom hearts game I just couldn't stomach to beat. It turns out after looking up the ending back in the day I was only like 2 hours from the ending.
I don't care about Kingdom Hearts (I think it's a dumb series), and it is unfortunate to me that you are taking time to cover the franchise. But I love your MGS and observation videos so ill stay subscribed and leave a comment for the algorithm.
Kingdom Hearts is important to many people, personally I love it and i don’t gaf abt Metal Gear at all. Like whatsoever. Wouldn’t go out of my way to make a comment saying that I find it pointless to cover such a dumb series and pretty much imply that you wish they’d stop though. Kindaaa lame Metal Gear doesn’t seem any less dumb btw 💀 perhaps moreso
As far as the “reusing entire worlds” criticism goes 34:30 I feel like most people gave 358/2 Days a pass because they managed to put nearly all of a PS2 games explorable worlds on a cartridge the size of a cheez-it. That’s what shocked me the most playing the game as a kid. It felt like a console game sized world on the go. I loved this game growing up and it was actually my favorite in the series at the time. As much nostalgia ad I have for it, I do think your critiques do display the many shortcomings of Days. Keep up the good work! 👍
Pretty much yeah. Days was the first time Square was able to give us a portable game that felt similar enough to the console games so to be able to revisit all those worlds on the go was quite magical, especially compared to COM were the level design was nothing like the originals. As a kid that's all I needed, especially since some parts of the level design was also change to make it feel like it was still kinda new. Now I can see that it was usually nothing special outside of Neverland and the cavern of Wonders but at the time? I couldn't ask for more!
That section at the end really hit the nail on the head for me. I have a love for this game because of the exact time in my life that ive played it. I was going through an abusive time in my life and as a confused teenager wondering what the point to his life was and why he had to deal with the suffering in it really helped me connect to this game. Having a few hours a day to escape away to this game and play a few missions even for a bit got me to resonate with the story a lot.
Growing up and being in a better place I never touched the game again but I remeber it fondly for the perfect storm of helping me through tough times. Nostalgia is a core part of this game and while it doesnt hold up im so glad I played it as a kid.
I understand this completely. Jak 2 was it for me. Glad you got that and in a better place bud
Much the same here for both KH Days and Jak2 of all things
I am SO CONFUSED with the opening but I'm here for it.
358/2 Days isn't a game- It's an experience that needs serious prep (I still cry)
All I got, was multiple subjects and a life story rant(?) and SpongeBob BGM music. Having nothing to do with KH and feeding a dog human fast food.
Like the title wasn’t confusing enough when you first played the game or seen a play through
This game uses a magic system with number of spell casts based on equipped spells? Days truly is the Dark Souls of Kingdom Hearts games...
How about we go back to FF VIII?
43:41 damn Jesse nailed that scene. Probably his best work in the series.
I was just thinking that! that was so good, idk why I don't remember that from when I watched it myself
Without even seeing the part I’m gunna guess on what it is.
The part when he’s asking for answers from axel and he walks away from the organization for the first time.
Yup, I thought it was phenomenal voice acting.
So, I dont agree with the argument that the game is bad on purpose. But KingK brought up a good point in his video. That the tedium of the gameplay makes it feel like work. And he liked the game in spite of its issues.
I really like the Ariel based keyblades. When you finish off a combo they do more damage than the higher power ones and feel more fun to play with. The thing I've noticed is people really hate the combat because they end up picking a slower clunkier keyblade that does more damage instead of a more fun with higher combo potential that technically does more if you pull up a full combo. When you have a good area-based keyblade along with a bunch of air dash is equipped it actually makes the combat surprisingly fun fast-paced and like you have a lot of control over the combos and your ability to dodge bosses mid combo. People are stubborn in instead of experimenting they just pick the keyblade with the higher powerstat and wonder why it takes so long to kill everything and why they have a tough time getting there combos to hit.
Yeah I ended up learning that unfortunately near 20+ hours in lol😅. But experimentation is important and unfortunately some of the longer combos kind of suck
Air combo build is how I always played 358 as a kid and man did I have an awesome time. I miss the customization from this game
1:03:07 I think if’s pretty unhealthy to be seeking perfection in anything. Because perfection is an ideal not reality.
Critique your darlings, if somehow your opinion changes, that means it wasn’t as important as you thought. I mean, you just talked about how you hate to admit you were into MLP, but still enjoy music from the community and embrace aspects of it. Why can’t you do that with KH?
I mean, I think it’s pretty cringe sometimes, but I still love it.
46:00 “Musique Pour la Tristesse de Xion,” is one of my favorite VG tracks of all time. What an amazing piece of music.
Y’know. Out of the entire roster of KH characters, Roxas and Xion were the only ones that ever made me feel anything. And I never even played Days.
Roxas when he said that summer vacation is over. Xion when you have to fight her, especially with the music accompaniment.
It’s that forlorn sort of nostalgia where you remember the simpler times, but know they’ll never come back.
And it makes me sad.
When playing through the series, I tried to explain the nostalgia thing with Twilight Town to my friend since I never grew up with it but she did. And the world and music still made me feel nostalgia.
Then, hearing the song you used in the middle of the nostalgia bit floored me as someone who also grew up with it. And I followed along with every bit following that explanation. I was not ready to cry during this video.
So apologies in advance for the long ass comment, but I'm just really passionate about Days and, well, Video Good. But feel free to skim through this one or ignore it entirely lmao
I've been working on an extensive analysis of this game and I definitely appreciate the depth that you went to actually critically talk about this game in a fair way that doesn't immediately dismiss it for being itself, and honestly most of the gamplay criticisms you have are really fair. A small nitpick I have is that you mentioned you can't customize party member behavior, when you actually can!
I always hated that idea about the gameplay "being boring" being, intentionally or not, complementary to the story. I think this idea started floating around more after KingK's video essay on Days, but regardless of that, I just don't agree with it for a very simple reason- I actually don't find the gameplay boring at all? While I can see why someone could get bored with it, I think exploring the panel system and its possibilities, especially with magic, makes the game super fun to blast through. Like, I often see people talk about how they HATE the panel system, how it makes magic useless because you can barely use it and whatnot, but I think you're the only other person I've ever seen point out how like- ethers are a thing, and you're supposed to carry out a diverse cast of magic spells per mission to make most use of those restoring items.
Another thing I think makes this system really fun to play around is studying enemy behavior, how spells affect different enemies, and optimal ways to defeat them. You'd be surprised how much personality some of these mobs have if you observe them or read their journal entries, and how many creative ways there are of taking enemies out.
So you know how you mentioned that you can't use spells while one is still being cast? While that's true, you can mix and match status effect caused by previous spells with different ones for maximum damage. Using a fireball on a frozen enemy, or casting thunder on and air-tossed enemy is so satisfying. Using thunder on a cornered enemy and seeing their HP get shredded is the best.
Sure, none of this is exactly grounds for "best game ever", but I think so much of Days gets overlooked- there's more to its gameplay than the average person would give it credit, and I think it's a system that's worth exploring and screwing around with. Hell, when you say you heavily disencourage lv1 runs of this game, I totally disagree. A glass cannon mega powerful mage setup with Roxas, with so much more room for carrying out magic doublers and lv ups, all the skills and items you'd possible need- that's super fun to play around with!
I think the part I most disagree with you on this video is when you mention there's no reason to play it with the HD movie existing. I think even aside from the gameplay stuff, so much of the heart, and humor of the character interactions gets lost and abridged in the movie, so much of the more subtle nuance of the themes gets lost in translation (and imo, even the tone of certain scenes and lines got butchered in the movie, as well with how certain scenes are framed in a camera sense).
Overall, even with the disagreements, I do appreciate that these are clearly your very earnest impressions and opinions and not just the same old parroted ideas people have of the game without even giving it a chance. Was a great watch!
Best way to experience days is to play it, even if you play it on easy mode. if you can’t do that the novel is A-OK but a lot of people don’t wanna read a book for a video game series. The manga is great but the same issue applies.
Actually the novel has a bunch of extra details, getting to hear exactly what’s inside Roxas’ head is pretty great.
goddamn it, you got me crying. that ending was beautifully written
While I agree that the movie version of this is probably a better choice, considering the game play is bad... but... I watched the whole movie, and... I just wanted it to end. Half way through I wanted to turn it off. Probably half the reason is cause of the still image text sections, that just felt so tacked on. I pushed myself through it and I regretted it after it finished. But playing the game I was interested and invested in the story. Its a different experience. I believe If the entire kingdom hearts series was just movies, it would be a boring flop.
Yeah no doubt about that. Frankly, I think I enjoyed the movie more because I had the game’s story already in my head, so I knew where it was going and could enjoy watching the important scenes play out. But yeah, it was likely too long/cheap/boring. Kind of wish I had gone into more detail on this point in the video but eh, what’ll yah do
Very aptly put, and the ending kinda reflects a lot of how I feel about this series in hindsight in a post-KH3 world. Days in particular is a title I sunk a lot of time into back in 2009. Only having experienced it through the cutscene compilations and the Everglow timeline videos since then, I decided to go back to revisit the DS version last year out of sheer curiosity. Only be crushed when I remembered how dull it was to actually play.
It's frustrating because I think it has one of the strongest narratives in the series up there with KH1 and the castle segments of CoM but the cutscene compilation itself also doesn't replicate the full experience, particularly in reference to the significance of the final fights with Saix, Xion and Riku.
Also the "it's mundane on purpose" thing is absolutely a post-hoc cope argument. It's the game design equivalent of "It's supposed to be dumb and not make sense"
I monthly check for new entries in this series, love what you do. Thank you
I do remember as a kid people were complaining about how many times places like Agrabah and Olympus were reused.
Just found your channel recently; the deep dive has been super fun. The videogame video-essay UA-cam ethos is fairly saturated, but you're doing really really great work. Keep it up dawgy & this channel will be huge.
The "it's boring on purpose!" thing is a massive cope alright.. The game's dull because of the mission structure, being a game for a mobile device designed for short play sessions, and the whole "each day is a mission" gimmick, and the combat just isn't complex enough for it. Honestly, I think they missed out on a way to make the story mode a lot more interesting by letting you play as the other Org XIII members. They're all already playable, just only in the multiplayer mission mode! If you were allowed or forced to play as them once in a while, I think it'd do wonders for the game.
But...
I kinda get why people say it. The game does a very good job of endearing you to the characters through all of the drudgery. Amidst the boring missions there are so many crumbles of character interactions that keep poking at you, all culminating in the final section of the game.
Somehow the cutscene movie just doesn't do the story justice. People whose only experience with 358/2 was the movie seem to not care that much about the Roxas/Axel/Xion trio, and it's very easy to find people making fun of the "who will I have ice cream with" line. The limited context the movie gives you does make it sound pretty silly. Perhaps this is more of a big fault of the cutscene movie than a great achievement of the game, but the game does a much better job of making the player understand the characters, motivations, and why they say the things they say.
After continuing to ruminate on it, I pretty much agree with you yeah
Jesse Mccartney nailed the role of Roxas, man gives me chills with some of his lines lol
I haven't replayed this game in a long while but it will always hold a special place in my heart as my intro to the KH series after renting it from Blockbuster as a kid
those were the days
Great retrospective! I would agree that I don't think Square Enix made the gameplay boring or repetitive on purpose but it is oddly one of the few cases where, I personally think, it adds to the whole experience unintentionally and perfectly. I looked forward to completing these dull tasks because I looked forward to the cutscene at the end of it and the chance of having ice cream with Xion and Axel...exactly how Roxas would be feeling.
Jesus I did not expect a Ratchet & Clank reference in my Kingdom Hearts video (R&C 2:GC is my favorite game of all time)
About your complaint about reusing world layouts: one series that I know of that does something similarly is the Yakuza/Like A Dragon series. You're basically revisiting the same city in each game, but at different points in time. Like you're going back to your home town and seeing what's different from the last time you saw it.
This is my favourite story in the series, but it is unfortunately clear the gameplay is dry and repetitive
You can customize party members. You can change who they target and how they use their resources. Its not as complicated as KH1 or KH2, but they are there.
Love this game and I've replayed it for the story more than the gameplay not that I think its terrible or boring as others, for me this is impressive for a DS game. I see a lot of younger streamers now playing KH and some opt to just watch the movie, I always say play the game, the movie does not do it justice at all. One point that is really fascinating is that the Nobodies do have hearts, Xemnas lied to them.
Yes, this was revealed in later games. I haven’t gotten that far so I’m not going to comment on it yet
@@Tetramorre apologies incase that counts as a spoiler
Oh boy! My favorite KH game. I sure hope he doesn't absolutely thrash it like literally everyone else does!
You're a criminally underrated creator. Thanks for the good times.
Just wanted to drop you a thank you, I have been playing a proud/critical run through the series in part because of your series. Many thanks!
Great video, Tetra. This game was also the last Kingdom Hearts game I played when I was growing up. I remember really liking it though. I remember thinking it was so cool to be able to play from Roxas's perspective, and I had a lot more free time back then, so I didn't mind the grind of the mission structure. I'm unsure if I ever grasped all of the mechanical nuances of the game. I think I just liked running around the worlds as Sora's slightly edgier counterpart (not to be confused with Ventus' edgier counterpart who's twinsies with Sora 🤭). It was also fun having, effectively, a buddy system with the Organization members on missions.
I do think the gradual build of the characters over the course of the game will endear players to them more and give more significance to the story beats. As a bunch of cutscenes you experience fairly quickly, Roxas saying "Who will I eat ice cream with?!" sounds comedic, but if you've been playing through the game, experiencing the whole journey step by step, and really earning each of those ice cream socials, it hurts.
Even watching some of the cutscenes in this video practically had me sobbing. A portion of it is nostalgia and musical composition, but Kingdom Hearts is so good at invoking feelings. Even if it doesn't always make sense, it can usually make you empathize with the characters and feel for them. At least, it did for me for I, II, and 358/2 Days.
The beauty of the KH story, a lot of things that feel similar but worse can be linked to roxas being soras nobody. He has soras muscle memory, but he's basically a newborn child.
Attacks don't hit the same? Roxas knows the motion but not the weight behind them. Sora swings for his friends, Roxas swings because he was told to.
Magic being insanely strong? Roxas is SORAS nobody, you know, the same guy whose been traveling with the strongest red mage in FF Canon? (Yes, I still have strong feelings about Donald using ZetaFlare)
The movement not being as smooth? Roxas is still getting comfortable as a new body, learning about himself, finding comfort in his (no)body.
Thematically, the flaws of this game fit narratively which makes them a lot easier to overlook to me. Honestly, this might be the best stand alone kingdom hearts game EXCLUSIVELY from a story perspective and the more you know about the franchise, the more weight the story beats carry. Axel alone has more character development in this game than MOST any other character gets in a single game in this franchise. You see how he changes after COM, you see how he just wants to build a connection with someone. From siax to roxas to xion, you see him trying to form a bond and connect back to his humanity, then they show you how he responded to seeing those bonds being manipulative (siax using axel to rise in the organization), temporary (xion's whole existence), or severed because peoples goals and life take them in different directions (roxas). Which leads perfectly into the character he is in KH2 AND makes his actions so much more real and justifiable.
Idk, that's just one example, I could write a book on this game, it's my favorite in the franchise.
This game is bad but I can’t say that I wasn’t affected by the story. This game wanted a gut emotional punch and it didn’t hold back.
You know it’s gonna have a sad ending, yet there is this bond between the three characters that you don’t want to destroy.
Speaking of nostalgia, I got rather jiggy to your included Battle for Bikini Bottom OST
Profoundly beautiful conclusion, I was almost moved to tears.
I think many of us grew up with JRPGs or MMOs, and are nostalgic for them as a result, but good lord I cannot love a game that doesn't respect the player's time anymore: even if the gameplay is amazing, going around beating up random Heartless a bunch just sucks as a concept.
i am absolutely in love with the long ass rant in the beginning of the vieo that has nothing to do about the game, im here for it (as a fan of days, yes, i agree)
love the bfbb music in the background xD
I just came across your channel a couple days ago and proceeded to binge all of your currently uploaded KH retrospective videos. Admittedly I checked to see how many games were covered and whether more were on their way before watching past the KH1 video. When I saw the community post for BBS I knew I was on board.
I’ll start by saying that I don’t agree with everything you have to say and disagree with part of your criteria.
However, I greatly appreciate these videos. It’s clear that you have a love and passion for this series and you’ve voiced many of the same criticisms I share. The writing of this series of games was so strong and is what compelled me to stick with it for so long. That is until DDD (and in hindsight the cracks were far too numerous in BBS). Your gameplay critiques are fantastic as well.
I remember playing 358/2 and having a really good time with it, not really being able to put it down because of how engrossing I felt the story was. As far as gameplay though, it is often boring and monotonous and I’ve never understood the defense from fans claiming that’s the intent. So thank you for really highlighting that aspect.
For me, I still largely enjoyed the combat and especially the panel system overall when I played it. The biggest reason, and where I think my opinion significantly diverges from yours is that I enjoy it for what it is as opposed to disliking it for what it isn’t.
It felt groundbreaking to have something that so closely emulated traditional kingdom hearts combat, but on the DS. A system that had significant restraints. You compare it heavily to RE:Coded claiming that the developers should have been more capable since Re:Coded was better in terms of gameplay.
To me that’s an unfair comparison since 358/2 was the developers first go at translating KH onto a handheld console.
I believe that the way we interpret and appreciate media is heavily impacted by the modes in which it is presented to us. Playing this game on the original hardware will always be a different experience from emulating on something else. You make a similar point in your KH1 video regarding the lighting disrupting the feel of certain scenes in the Dive to the Heart and Destiny Island sequences. You make a similar point again regarding CoM’s original GBA graphics in comparison to RE:CoM.
I also strongly disagree with your choice to deliberately play the bulk of this game on mute, as music and sound effects are arguably one the most consistently strong hallmarks of the KH franchise.
But like I said, I appreciate your videos on this series. It is refreshing to hear opinions that don’t sound like they’ve been bouncing around the same stale echo chambers for over a decade.
I’m very excited to see the rest of your retrospective videos as they come. Keep it up!
You like beef quesaritos AND BFBB?! Sign me up
Hey, I'm late to the party
This is the game that introduced KH to me. THis is the game of my childhood. I still remember time optimizing my panel arrangement and trying to fit as much in my backpack as I could
Thank you. Thank you for this video and the respect you gave to this title, even despite all its flaws
I might not have the Winner one, but I'm happy to share this sea salt ice cream with all of you
Fantastic work by the way
Cheers
I am bothered by a number of things with Days as a game. Why is Xion a reskin of Roxas, yet she goes unplayed in thr story despite all of her important beats? Why are the CoM members not expanded upon? Why is Roxas dumbed down from how he was portrayed in KH2 as a person seeking answers constantly to "muh ice cream" until almost the end of the game? Why is there an elemental affinity for each Organization member in the game, but not a list of magic spells that tie into each so you aren't doing something weird like being unable to use Earth magic as Lexaeus?
Xion's pain and her music always fucks me up! Who else will I have ice cream with?
Thanks for recapping this game for me: its a hard one to remember being 14 when I first played it
Is this the greatest intro to a video on UA-cam? Yes, yes I think it is
I disagree with the idea that you should watch the cutscenes instead of playing the game itself. The cutscene movie will ruin your experience with the story because the gameplay is a crucial part of the storytelling. And by that, I don't mean that "the game is boring, just like how Roxas is bored". Whether or not a game is boring is subjective and is always going to be a complete non-argument in whether or not a game is good, mediocre or bad because an individual's subjective feelings and preferences have nothing to do with a game's quality (I think Dark Souls 3 is boring as piss, especially as a 100%, but that doesn't mean that the game is terrible. I just don't like it very much, even in co-op, which is how I have the most fun in the Souls games). I mean that the missions, the combat, etc, put you into the shoes of the characters very well. A notable example of this is the mission where Roxas decides to give Xion his keyblade so she can relearn how to use it, foregoing more practical combat in favor of picking up a random stick with magical powers off of the ground and using that to fight instead. You then proceed to cast fireballs with your wooden stick for the rest of the mission while you fight alongside Xion collecting hearts in Beast's Castle, which puts you on the backfoot but allows you to see Xion learning how to use the keyblade on the go. It's a mission with a lot of great character moments built off of some previous missions and their respective story moments for that plot thread, and thanks to it and multiple other missions tied to the plot thread of Xion forgetting how to use the keyblade, the plot thread in question ends with a good payoff that develops the characters and drives the story forward in an interesting way that would not have occurred if the events of those missions did not take place, because Xion can never be humiliated by Riku if she doesn't figure out how to use the keyblade again, their bonds never become even deeper from this thread and so the rift between them that is created at the end of the game cannot be as large, etc. This mission, like many other ones, is absent in the cutscene collection, and because it was cut both from a cutscene and gameplay perspective, various payoffs and twists in the story aren't as effective as they really need to be in order for those story beats to work as intended.
Too many times have I seen or heard people watch the cutscene movie as their first experience with this game's story and simply not care about anything that's happening in the story, including Xion's death. The gameplay allows you to get closer with the characters and it works as a way to bring you into the key character conflicts and development, as well as the plot, which the cutscene movie outright fails to accomplish because you're not experiencing the story so much as you are spectating select parts of it without any emotions other than perhaps complete boredom and disinterest. The cutscene movie doesn't convey the story in a way that allows you to connect with the characters, even if you're someone who loves the story from the original game and first experienced it on the DS or in an emulator.
I think anyone who's interested in this game should play it at least once on their preferred difficulty of choice for the story alone if it's their first time through. After that it's up to them whether or not they want to replay the game from time to time. Personally, I enjoy the game despite its issues, so I don't mind replaying it occasionally. A couple years ago I actually bit the bullet and 100% completed the game on Proud Mode, though I did use save states for a couple of the more ridiculous challenge missions. I think I'd sooner do another 100% of 358/2 Days over another True 100% of BBSFM, if I'm being honest.
Bruh more gaming UA-camrs need to use SpongeBob ost, love it
I'll be real.
Whether intentional or not,
whether design-wise it's a good idea or not,
the way the game is designed in terms of story/gameplay structure, still brings the actual story into more acute focus in spite of its shortcomings.
Whether intentional or not, having to go through a day of work, and looking forward to the end of the day, because there's story progression there, makes perfect sense.
The story truly does not manage to hit the same high points when diluted to simple cutscenes, because the cutscenes are not given the time and context needed to breathe.
If you're ever read or watched Spice & Wolf, the problem is the same.
The anime misses the context of the main character's thoughts, and those thoughts, that context, is what directly drives the story and emotional structure of that series.
Without the main character's thoughts, without delving into his mind, the actions Holo takes, the way she makes him feel, is lost, and with it, most of the potency of the story in saying what it means to say.
I understand what you're saying, but this would not be, and will not be the last time that a game is designed and structured in a way that doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable from the outset.
The same can be said with music.
If you listen to Cardiacs for example, their music is WAY out there. At a first listen it's like a cacophony in a lot of cases.
But then you realize it's all very much intentionally crafted to be exactly the way it is. You start to look into the music, and start to realize why it is the way it is, and what was intended with it.
It's not necessarily that the game is a bad game, but not a game that will appeal in the same way as the others in the franchise with many.
I won't argue that the actual combat isn't necessarily the best in the franchise, far from it, but it's also not the worst by a long-shot.
Dream Drop Distance comes to mind, as enemies react even less to you than they do in Days, and it feels like your only option is the limited flow-motion.
Similarly, just looking at the way the keyblades work in Days, as well as subsequently RE:Coded, is, objectively, beyond the floatiness likely inherent from the system it was made for,
better than Kingdom Hearts 1. There's more varied combos per keyblade. You can level them up, therefore keep using the ones you like, or mix & match, as they did in KH3 much later.
There's even times where you can use Y to vary up your combo depending on the keyblade, and the keyblade's combos/abilities act as more varied abilities than in KH1.
If you also consider how broken COM is, it also has a leg-up there in many departments, and it did some really cool things with upgrades to abilities like dodge and block.
Yeah, I’ve actually renounced my statement on this game’s gameplay structure somewhat since this video came out, though not to the extreme of saying it’s a good thing. I still don’t think designing the gameplay to be intentionally boring in a series like kingdom hearts (as in, it’s a mass marketed major franchise) is a valid approach, but it does improve the story for sure. I’ll make a video about stuff I got wrong sometime soon, it’ll probably be the last video before the KH3 video comes out.
Tho, you kinda lost me when you said the functionality of the keyblades is objectively better in days over kh1. Complexity doesn’t necessarily equate to more good, and I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with the way they were handled in kh1, being basically just stat increases like any other accessory. Even if the system in days had been implemented into a game with decent feel or compelling structure, I don’t think I’d call it objectively better because kh1’s system isn’t bad, it’s just simple, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s easier to balance for one thing, and KH1, like many action rpgs, opted for complexity in the enemies over complexity on the part of the player’s moveset. Future games in the series would strike a better balance than KH1 in this regard but there’s nothing wrong with the way it was back then, it’s just different.
Besides, don’t you think it’s possible the forced combo alterations could get in the way? Take kh1’s system, where keyblades had improvements to your base stats, but also had hidden stats like reach and stability. Say I like the Metal Chocobo for its reach and stability but I hate that keyblade’s combo alterations. Guess I’ll never use it? I like KH1’s keyblade system because not every keyblade could be best for any given job, despite perhaps having the highest stats, because there was more to it than just those stats. And they expected you to change your playstyle to fit the keyblade’s quirks, i.e. if you equipped the fairy harp you weren’t going to be nearly as successful in physical combat, so use spells and summons and try to avoid physical if you can. If the fairy harp had some rinkydink combo it would accomplish the same goal, but consider how in Days the “bad” combos were actually in a lot of cases the safest options and you’ll see how that can quickly get undermined by trying to inject too much complexity.
Idk, it’s 6 am and I’m rambling at this point, I just don’t agree that injecting forced complexity into the system is objectively better. It can be better, but complexity is a tool, not the be-all-end-all some people treat it is. I find complexity can sometimes get in the way of making well thought out but simple gameplay at times. One of my favorite games is Hollow Knight and it, even by the end, has a pretty basic move set depending on how you use it, but it’s still able to build challenges out of it.
As for COM, it’s barely even the same genre as the rest of kh lol. If that game was “balanced” it’d be the dullest game in the series
Your videos help me get through work. Thank you!
action button mentioned!!
As fans we are bound to try to give our closest people the same nostalgic value we got out of our loved frenchises.
I never could replicate that nostalgia for other people. But for my little brother i just meight have, i got him very early in his life into the series, he was like 8 years old, almost at the same age when i first started playing KH1, i forced him to play on my PC on emulator, so he could expierence the superb german voice acting of that game. He couldn't get used to the controlls and switched to the Final Mix version. He wrote me recently that he finally could beat Riku in KH1 FM, it took him almost 7 years.
He meight not going to have the same Nostalgic value to the game then i had, but he will have his own expierence in his developmental years. I never had to face Riku for example but i remember myself needing half a year to finish Final Fantasy VII and it is also very special to me like KH is. I'm just happy i could lead the next generation into loveing the same game i did even tho so many years are apart of that release and his childhood.
I agree about the gameplay being terrible. It was the reason why i never finished it when i was a kid. I only know the story because if videos like this one i watched after the fact. I also never finished DDD, but that was for other reasons really, though to be fair the handles in that game e want great either. I liked the concept of the panel system, as it reminded me of the Navi customizer system in the Battle Network series (though worse, imo). Interested in what you have to say about both BBS and DDD
Also it makes me so sad, the multiplayer was something i really wanted t to do, but sure to both the gameplay and the fact that i didn't know anyone else with the game, it sadly never happened. I should look into using an emulator and see how good the netcode is for that
We need a 358/2 Days remaster....
Holy shit that ending, hoooooooly shit. I watch a LOT of video essays and damn you are a gem. Please keep making videos, you deserve 100x the subs you already have
To be fair this game is still much better than melodies of memories and has a much better plot than kh3
I just started the video, so i gonna leave a comment wondering if all the YT video talk and very detailed explanation of what you did during your day is on purpose is to match the ''Busy work'' vibes from 358/2 days.
You *can* customize the AI partner’s behavior, although it’s extremely limited.
Basically, can set them to:
- let them do whatever they want
- prioritize casting spells over melee combos
- do nothing
The music in these games is insane. I hardly know, let alone like, these characters & i'm not fond of the types of conflicts they undergo, but I am completely entranced during their emotional conversations thanks to the soundtrack.
I played this game for a little over 11 hours and am already getting somewhat worn out. I thought it was going to get better eventualy, but this video just got by bullet point every single problem I had so.... I will just skip the ds entries and read the manga lol
When I first saw that it came out I was still in middle school and it happened to be summer so I beat the game in about a week, i even did a bunch of the multiplayer missions solo. Not recommended
Let me clarify, I recommend this game if you played the others, i don't recommend doing multiplayer missions solo.
nawwwwww cmon duuuuuuude that ending made me cry, why ya doin this to me man
The Bugsnax music is such a nice touch
I personally disagree with the video being titled an "analysis" when it's more of a subjective review if anything. An analysis, to me, is an overall evaluation of material portrayed through an objective lens, whereas this video is more akin to personal opinions clouding the analysis of the game and leaving things as an interpretative review of the material. What really upsets me is most of what is said from 7:24 to 8:03, where you abridge the panel system as "a big page with square slots." You follow this up by relating it to the ReCoded stat matrix system (in which you also heavy-handedly promoted your ReCoded analysis video), pointing out the physical similarities and claiming that ReCoded simply "took the system and made it better." Immediately following this, you say that "if you see something in this game that reminds you of something in ReCoded, just assume it was done better there." I understand that 358/2 Days and ReCoded were both developed by the same company, but this comment in particular really undermines the differences between the two games and steers the viewer towards a single uniform opinion of ReCoded >> Days. This really disappoints me because I'm a huge fan of both games and I think each game has their own strengths and weaknesses. I seriously appreciate how you attempt to be as neutral as possible throughout the video, but your negative feelings of the game really shine through at certain times and it's very disappointing to watch. This is my first video from your channel that I've watched and I went into this video expecting a strong analysis of 358/2 Days (considering the 60 minute runtime) and was thoroughly disappointed with what I recieved.
I think I might put this video off until later tonight so I can watch it while eating Taco Bell. I feel like that's the correct way to experience it.
I am back and have obtained Taco Bell
I agree
I could have sworn that Pinocchio was supposed to be in this game. I think there is an unused file of his talk sprite along with Gepeto.
Nomura was probably gonna use them as a hint how nobodies or Xion being a puppet too can develop a heart like Pinocchio.
I know Nomura overall is a terrible writer but even I have to admit he can make some good foreshadowing.
Did you play it with retroachievements account? There are achievements for both this game and recoded over there. They have achievements for GBA CoM, PSP BBS Final mix with english translation patch, and PS2 KH1 Final mix with traslation patch. They are working on PS2 KH2 Final mix with translation patch.
I did not
The intro is basically what entire Tim Roger's videos are like lmao-- edit: I swear I wrote this before you admitted it
I will forever be tilted by this games naming convention
29:20 you mention that you keep comparing this game to re:coded because it shows how it can be done...
But then fail to mention that this game suffers a bit from "first game sysdrome." As you said several re:coded has lots of upgrades comparatively, BECAUSE 358 came first.
Yeah, it wasn't the first game on handheld but the first 3D kingdom hearts on DS. It doesn't change the fact that the combat is jank as a hell sometimes but it does make so much sense as to why re:coded plays better because the dev team learned from the failings of 358.
If you read all this, thank you and sorry for ranting, but I wanted to say my thoughts.
Thank you for memories
Genuinely cannot understand why the final mix made chain of memories into a game instead of this when this looks like it could be so easily fixed and yet COM absolutely sucks in every manner other than the plot.
Thanks!
No, thank you!
I didn’t know buying a super like would make a comment lmao
Now for the game I've been excited to see the most
0:30 *gasp*….Neither do I…it’s kinda boring actually.
The ending hit really hard, thanks for the great content.
49:09 Xion was created before Repliku
Right, I don't think I phrased that very well. What I meant to say was that he was a test run in order to focus test issues that may occur with Xion, since she was the primary replica plan they wanted to make sure they knew all that they were dealing with
I just started the video, but I wonder if theres a reason why this game doesnt have FOTK in the thumbnail
Couldn’t fit it mostly lol
@@Tetramorre Makes sense lol. I guess I was thinking, because this game seems to have the best writing, it wouldn't contribute towards "the fall"
I'm glad your making these videos, as I really love kingdom hearts but have many problems with it, especially the most recent stuff. I'm excited to see you cover the recent stuff.
The last part of the video hit me.
It pains me to see KH fans blindly see these flaws as good, and react violently if anyone critiques the series, saying people don't "understand".
I recently ran into this when I posted a critique video I really enjoyed for KH3.
I will always say this, but if you truly love a franchise then you will acknowledge the flaws and want better. Instead these people ignore the flaws and come up with headcanon in order to explain away bad writing. Its agonizing. We should have better, not accept the terrible.
I love Kingdom Hearts, but I also hate it.
The fact that we can see these flaws and want this series to do better, to see these characters shine, for them to develop, and for there to be narrative weight. Is BECAUSE we love them. We want to see them at their best.
But now it seems all we get is shit.
Excited to see the rest of these Fall of the Kingdom videos.
Only at the beginning, but the use of the Battle for Bikini Bottom soundtrack is based
I wished I had some friends that owns it so we can play the multiplayer but I did with one of my best friend which was fun
I knew that the Universal Paperclips intro would have consequences. This was inevitable.
I also appreciate the use of Battle for Bikini Bottom music. It works really well.
in my mother language, the beginning and ending of this video, is called: "pura pinche paja", besides, good video
World reuse destroyed re:coded for me ngl (haven’t played days yet) it’d be above bbs even with the graphics and somewhat weird gameplay sections (i hated the turn based rpg shit and other gimmick stuff) simply because tweaking your experience on the fly with the matrix whatever system was genius and im surprised no indie game made a high risk high reward addicting rougelike out of it
I was starting to wonder if you were stalling like Tim Rogers right as you confirmed it lol
I do legitimately like this game. Especially the combat. It always felt right to me, as someone that strongly favors magic. I would even actively avoid using the keyblade in many missions.
Overall i found the world charming despite their size because the story of scoping them out for the organization made sense ro me.
I would actually prefer this game to get a remake more than any other. Just removing the level up panels and making level a slider (in case you want to be a certain level, which could have been an optional challenge on some missions) and replace the level panels with stat boosters ala Re:coded.
I think there's a lot good and a lot to like about the game, and it feels limited by hardware and time more than anything else.
This game NEEDS a remake more than any other in the series has. Too bad that’s likely to never happen now. Ah well
@@Tetramorre Not with the Arc over. Though I do think it is the kind of insane move the creator would pull.
KH: 358 (no over 2) With a modern update and all the areas reimaged. Play the other half of the year as other Org13 members, learn about the Castle Oblivion crew more. Add in spells of every type as the other members have. Add in summons for dusks and the matching higher nobody of each type. Etc etc
Oh and online co-op obv
That ending speech was raw dude, what a quote drop
I did not Roundup to help students with their education. 😂 I don't trust that if I want to donate I will donate directly to the charity. They probably skim some of the profits of the donations and write off the rest even though we're paying for it.
Why did you start the video talking about other videos and not the game in question?
I’m guessing you didn’t make it to the part where I talk about Taco Bell for like three minutes huh
@@Tetramorre I actually stopped watching...
Neat
I've never played a KH game, but got friends who have gone through the whole series, so I'm really interested in these videos so I can better understand what they are talking about.
That said, I'm starting to realize I'm still stuck at comprehending Nobodies, and that is really hindering my ability to understand most of this plot. They supposedly don't exist, but actually do exist in every conceivable way that matters. They supposedly are literally physically unable to have emotions because they don't have hearts, yet frequently show emotions anyway. Even with memories being an excuse, that just shows that they were capable of emotions all along.
When so much of the plot is built on the drama surrounding how Nobodies don't exist and don't have emotions, I really struggle to see much value in the story. What can you even build on such a crumbling foundation?
I wouldn’t hasten to criticize the series if you’ve never played it personally. While I try to do a good job of explaining things like the nobodies, much of my understanding of their subtler elements comes from stuff I rarely talk about or show because I have to balance recap with analysis. This is going to be true of basically anyone that does content like mine, and we all balance it in different ways.
Roxas is the main way they explain this predicament though, and it’s like I said in the video: at the beginning he’s a zombie of a man, but throughout the game he grows more emotionally connected. The implication is that his relationship with Axel and Xion allows him to develop emotionally even though that should be impossible.
I would also argue that “pretending to have emotions because you remember what it’s like” and actually having emotions are not the same thing. Perhaps to the onlooker, aka Sora and team, it would be the same thing, but to the actual nobody they can’t escape the emptiness present within them. Roxas managed to escape that, for a while anyway, until he was called back to his original self.
If it makes you feel better though, I’m 99% certain they retcon the nobodies later on to actually having hearts, and Xemnas just lying about them not. Don’t quote me on that because I haven’t gotten that far yet but I think I remember that being a thing.
@@Tetramorre Thanks for the explanation, I feel at least the lack of emotions make a bit more sense. Still don't get what it means that they don't exist though.
And I'm fully aware that my perception of these games are limited from not having played them myself, so I'm not exactly trying to criticize the story. It's more that I'm finding some issues and I get frustrated as I can't tell if it's due to my misunderstanding or due to an actual problem with the story. Even my KH playing friends just shrug and tell me the story is a mess, so no answers there either. I hope I didn't come off as needlessly harsh towards you or the series, I know how annoying it can be to deal with bad faith criticism of games you like from people who never even played it.
Anyway, your videos are absolutely great and I can't wait to see your future analyses, both of KH and other games!
No worries, not harsh at all. The nobodies are definitely confusing and I think the story (at this point in the series) kind of wants you to wrestle with that fact. Makes it more interesting for me to think about at least.
The nobodies “not existing” is definitely odd. The way that it’s sometimes referred to in the series is more the idea that they “don’t deserve to exist”, as in their existence is an abomination to reality.
@@Tetramorre Many of the cutscenes in KH2FM strongly hint at the idea of Nobodies not having hearts being only a temporary situation. Particularly in the scenes you showed in your KH2 review
Not going into later games details in the interest of spoilers
These vids are GOATed
horse ending :') god bless
Fuxk.........Yo Quiero Comer Taco Bell.
Jesus wtf is this intro man.
Re coded definitely plays worse than days. It may play marginally better Mechanically but the contextual actions you do in game are painfully dull. Is to this day the only Kingdom hearts game I just couldn't stomach to beat. It turns out after looking up the ending back in the day I was only like 2 hours from the ending.
I don't care about Kingdom Hearts (I think it's a dumb series), and it is unfortunate to me that you are taking time to cover the franchise. But I love your MGS and observation videos so ill stay subscribed and leave a comment for the algorithm.
Kingdom Hearts is important to many people, personally I love it and i don’t gaf abt Metal Gear at all. Like whatsoever. Wouldn’t go out of my way to make a comment saying that I find it pointless to cover such a dumb series and pretty much imply that you wish they’d stop though. Kindaaa lame
Metal Gear doesn’t seem any less dumb btw 💀 perhaps moreso
Also his Kingdom Hearts videos have more views than his Metal Gear ones, soo.. take that as you will.
@@coloryournight didn't ask
@@willferrous8677 cope w ur mid ass game