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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Is the rock'n'roll lifestyle over? Is is detrimental to your reputation and your career? Is it uncool or just plain unattractive to live like that? Or is it just not sustainable? Let's talk about it and why this lifestyle is evidently changing.
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It was the secret song that swayed me.
In 1978 I was fortunate as a very underage teen that got to see The Sex Pistols in America at one of their only 6 shows, ever. Sid Vicious had carved Gimme a Fix into his chest, people were throwing glass bottles at the band and the band was throwing them back. The band was cursing everyone, Vicious was so messed up he was lying down for a significant part of the show, and despite the fact that I was fortunate to see/attend TONS of bands/shows from the late 70s into the 90s, this is my one favorite show memory.
I saw KISS, The Dead Kennedys, DEVO, The Cars, The Clash, Tom Petty, Rod Stewart, Queen, Joan Jett, Motley Crue, Van Halen, The Police, Def Leppard, Poison, Duran Duran, you name it, tickets were cheap back then and shows were awesome. I do think this mentality of today killed rock, this soft, always censored, always offended mindset of fake kindness and do gooderism.
As a grandma of 8 now, I looooooooathe it beyond words.
I'm doing my best to teach my grandkids what real kindness and morality is about and how to separate art from reality. Because that's real "wokeness."
I'd Thee proffer libation of thy choice on a Violet flower petal. Bromeo, i'd buy you a non alcoholic beverage of your choice. Swiggs Away, Maestro!
Always a sucker for a secret(ish) song lol 😂
I’m in
From now on I'm just leaving my shirt unbuttoned all the time.
You think you can rock a Justin/Cornell ?!!!
I've no shirts in my possession which do button, so...
Mission accomplished on my end; no fuss - no muss.
@@d33j4ybf 😂😂🤣🤣🤘🤘🤘🤘
Unzipped for me.
I'd have someone's eye out.
I don't think this lifestyle has gone out of style, it switched genres. If you look at alot of rappers and famous hip hop artists are very much famous for their "rockstar" lifestyle and ,of course their music. But the lifestyle hasn't ended nor changed, it just moved.
^ This
this is true
I was thinking the same.
I was about to write the exact same thing. Looking at UK grime, it's just moved. Being wasted and celebrating toxic male attitudes is the norm there
@grimble6261 omg, heroin and pills/pills+alcohol are nothing to encourage using either! Hell, I wouldn't even encourage coke or meth these days because even THOSE are being cut with fentanyl. Easier to get and cheaper to cut with, plus it's super addictive, so guaranteed return customers if they don't end up dead first. I'd add in crack for the same reason, but I don't think that shits been around for a while now. Definitely not like it was.
I'm so terrified of just partying one time now because it could kill me and my adult children don't even want to experiment with anything other than weed or psychedelics like psilocybin, LSD, DMT, ketamine because they've seen one too many classmates and their favorite musicians accidentally die off of just one Xanax pill laced with fentanyl. A 14 year old girl at our local high school took what she thought was a Xanax from her boyfriends stash and dropped dead within minutes. No thank you! One night of debauchery is not worth the risk, so I'm afraid these kids won't be leaving their computers anytime soon and I'm not accepting a rail from NOBODY.😂
You can be clean, sober and responsible and still be a Rockstar. Rock and Roll ISNT about drinking, drugging, having sex, or staying out all night... in fact, Rock and Roll is nothing more than an attitude. If you have the attitude, none of the other things matter. Just because you don't have any bad habits doesn't mean you aren't dangerous.
I thought rock n roll was about the music. They say the same thing about punk and grunge: it's an attitude. Then that means I can be a country-bluegrass band but have the right attitude then I'm rock n roll? ridiculous.
@@danebrackvitch4901couldn’t agree more. I like multiple genres… what kind of attitude do I need??
@@danebrackvitch4901 grunge is definetly more of an attitude than it is a genre. Just listen to 'Something in the way' and 'Floyd The Barber' two songs from the same band in the same genre, yet the songs shouldnt even be in the same genre.
Yeah it’s an attitude but those drinks and drugs are a lot of fun.. in the moment
We just can’t afford it. And I want to drink and do drugs if it’s my choice
@@danebrackvitch4901Johnny Cash, Waylon jennings, Hank Williams..
There's just no place for it out there anymore. The cost of everything related to touring is SO sky high right now, that the bands are already heavily invested, exposed with a lot at risk, with little promise of even a modest payoff. Even one cancellation can put a tour in the red. You can't have anyone in the van with you whose conduct could cost you a gig, either through self-destructive behavior, or because they're still in the last town speaking to the police about some aspect of their conduct. Bail money is NOT in the tour budget.
Justin's look is on point today...hair, shirt, stubble length...rock 'n roll! 🤘
Thanks! I have lost too many "local" musician friends to addiction. The hotel room parties were insane, but i have also hung out with many "professional" musicians backstage who didn't drink or party at all. In the later 80s in the US, it was becoming apparent to all of us that the drinking and drugs were taking a toll on the music, and some started to make a conscious effort to stop. Queensryche and Apocalyptica didn't have alcohol backstage at all. I have my own rule that if I am with someone who doesn't drink, I don't either. It is hard enough for them, and I don't want to make it any harder.
Who?
@@Junkhead91 Who have I lost?
I've played drums for 30 years across too many bands across 100's perhaps 1000's of shows. I was always the guy with a drink and a cigarette at all times before during and after a show. my alcohol tolerance got the the point that 5 beers preshow did nothing but make me have to piss 1/2 way through the 3rd set. I still drink, but never live anymore and TBH after a while, playing sober made me realize just how much fun playing music sober is. I'm way more in the moment and thankful for it. Especially when you're playing onstage with absolute killer players, an amazing stage, and a next level sound tech. Thank you for your insight on the matter Justin. Best channel on the interwebs.
One enormous factor that you didn't cover is accountability. The rise of social media and smartphones has meant celebrities behaving badly these days can have their actions uploaded to the web and gone viral before their hangover has even kicked in. And the consequences can end a career in a flash.
I agree with you, this was happening some time ago to Cara Delevingne, I hope she has stopped her self-abuse now.
You hit the nail on the head. It's exactly this. Bad behavior or even just accusations blow up and end careers.
I saw an interview with Slash a little while ago where he pointed this out. Shit that they got away with back in the day couldn't happen today.
Eh? I thought bad behaviour was the whole point! And all the better if it was heavily publicised. If not, then you're not doing it properly!
@@TrojanBusthe social landscape changed
I'm a touring cycling poet, and think touring is rock n roll without sex, drugs, and booze. It's an alternative bohemian lifestyle, the opposite of mainstream. As a lifestyle it's not an easy gig, it's exhausting uprooting, and lacking in security, but it's a labour of love and a choice! Troubadours are rock n roll! X
Interesting commentary. I was just having a discussion with a friend who is a musician. I am a former dancer and back in the day I would be on tours where people were literally throwing drugs at me. Fortunately, that was not my weakness and I’ve endured and live a healthy life. However, for people that continue to live their lives the same way, very sad. You grow up and life changes, hopefully.
I am happy to see the vast improvements you seem to make with your life. You look amazing. Stay true to yourself and happy for your girl. Salute!
I believe in a Hawkins called Justin.
This is why Guided By Voices is one of the all-time rock giants in my book - they know how (and when) to party hard. I saw them empty a large beach cooler full of beer and tequila (which they generously shared with the front row) and halfway through the set a roadie came out to remove said cooler, then REPLACED IT. But that wasn't their lives or even their personas; they just like to have fun, like every show is a party we were all invited to, then they go home to their teaching jobs and families and what have you. They lay it all out on the stage, and it remains on the stage. The missus and I met this band the Darkness once, too. They seemed pretty cool. They endanger themselves in Different ways, like scaling the bar balcony at the Paradise and scaring the staff.
Isn't the guy in this video from the band the darkness
Growing up in the 70s, the drug scene as a part of the whole rock and roll lifestyle for rock stars and fans alike. It was all about partying and having fun and most of us never saw the ugly side of it.
I think these days every single person has in some way experienced addiction first hand. Either they experienced it themselves, or saw a loved one go through it. There's nothing cool about addiction, and musicians on drugs aren't seen as "cool" any more, they are seen as addicts who need help.
Also, thats an interesting take on how music has flipped from revenue coming mostly from touring. I'd never considered that. I guess that explains why ticket prices are so high. When I was a teen in the late 70s, most tickets were around $7. Even at a minimum wage job. I could afford tickets for two hours of work. These days, the same ticket would be at least $100, which means at min. wage it would take about 15 hours of work. Ouch!
This is a random but mind-blowing fact: the average Taylor Swift resale ticket goes for about $3,800 🤔 🤷♂️
Well, since nobody under about 40 seems to think they have to pay the artist for their recorded output anymore, what else did you expect?!
@@aldercones What financial and societal meltdown?
$100 for which kind of tickets and bands?
Plenty of $10-70 tickets to see everything from underground to mainstream, $100 and up sounds more in the lines of VIP placement, stadium size or festival.
And when the prices go all crazy it’s pure scalping.
It's wild how the rock n roll lifestyle has done a 180. Major labels kicking the bucket played a role - suddenly, artists are the captains of their own ships. Rock ain't dead; it just had a makeover. I just wish we could have another genuine rock movement like we had with Nirvana or The Beatles. Even in the early 2000's we had The Strokes, White Stripes etc. The most genuine contender for the next wave of good rock music for me is a band from New Zealand called The Doublejumps. I'd highly recommend checking them out. They're all about the DIY, which seems to me like the logical path forward in rock music today.
Lol the plugs are getting more creative! Go Doublejumps!
King Gizzard And The Lizard Wizard.
The Beatles?! They were pop, for sure not rock. Rolling Sones were rock
@@federicobattistetti3108 You're telling me the band that made helter skelter isn't rock?
Go see a doctor asap you might have something wrong with your temporal lobe.
Hilarious. A band that imitates how we grew up
This seems like the mass imitation era of all our Cultures ?
Also Literally playing dress up how we grew up ?
Your hair is on point today Justin. 👌
Hedonism is a great way to spend a few years. But ultimately is going to pull your trousers down eventually, you just gotta hope it doesnt happen in public
Just dont do it to begin with. Nothing better than self discipline
I think connectivity has killed rock and roll. Touring doesn't take you out of society and away from your loved ones they way it used to - If you misbehave, it's not slow gossip that spreads the news, it's instantly everywhere. And if you're lonely on tour, you don't tell the bottle and the groupies, you video call your friend at home.
Such a nice guy… inspirational, honest, straight forward… liking your content quite a lot and will stay tuned for more
A friend of mine quite a few years ago worked in local radio, she was excited on this day because they had Keith Richards coming in as expected, he came rolling in looking rather drunk as he staggered around the room, and staggered to his chair, flipped open his Jack Daniel‘s, and took a big swallow did the interview all went brilliant then he stood up, staggered out of the room, she realised he had left his bottle and couldn’t resist a drink. The bottle was full of cold tea. she looked out of the window when she looked out the window, she saw him walking away, straight and sober. It was all an act.
I saw Eddie Van Halen slam what was purported to be a fifth of Jack Daniels on stage in '81. Then continued to play like... Eddie Van Halen. At sixteen I had just enough experience with Mr. Jack to detect there was some 'musical theater' afoot... it's all good until your young fans attempt this at home & can't be resuscitated 🤷
@@bobpurcell7175 Either that or his alcohol tolerance and cocaine intake were enough to stave off problems until later. I've known a lot of people who drink-and-snort their way into having active blackouts, where they're still going on autopilot for hours but don't remember a damn thing about it later. If you've got 'handlers' taking care of you, it's a lot easier to go ahead and do that without, you know, getting in a car accident or something. But I didn't drink off his bottle, so it totally could have been Lipton.
@@jamescarter3196 I can't prove a thing, but if that was bottle was full of Jack, I've never seen a guitarist soldier through anywhere near that much alcohol with NO apparent effect on his playing... though it's been awhile and I was a bit 🤪 myself that night.
As someone who has never liked drinking, never touched drugs, part of what kept me from going into music back in the day was to avoid the excesses of R&Roll. I actually had youthful dreams of being a Rock star, but it wasn't to be rich or popular, it was just to avoid riding a desk or some other crap job and living paycheck to paycheck.
Lol, yeah of course it was, and definitely not a lack of talent...
@@mymodel6😂😂
@@mymodel6 I'm an ok singer, not near as good as Justin, but I have had much praise heaped upon me for lyrics, that was my real specialty. Oh but wait, your comment was intended to denigrate a stranger, wasn't it? Sorry, should I pretend to be offended so your inner-troll can dance with glee or something? What bother. I'll opt out, tyvm.
@@R.senals_Arsenal No, my comment was intended to highlight the blatant narcissistic grandiosity of your post...
@@mymodel6 No, you were being snarky for sh!tz & giggles.
How is admitting to having had dreams that you didn't pursue in any way grandiose? How that enters, or even comes in any way close, to the realm of narcissism is beyond me. If anything it's self deprecating, not aggrandizement.
Living through the 80's was a cool experience! I just wish I could remember more of it. Partying, loud music was our release from the daily grind. Then you get older and more mature in your thinking and you change. At least that's what I did. Congratulations on your sobriety!
I think the one reason we don’t see this lifestyle amongst the “well known” musicians anymore, is that far too many musicians, starting out, paying their so called dues, are already trying to live the life of rock stars and burning out, or splitting up, long before they’ve made it.
The fact there's no money in music is the main factor we don't see it as much.
@@mikethebloodthirsty I suppose that would depend on where you are based and the type of market you cater for. Where I am, a band willing to do parties and weddings etc, on the side, can make a very comfortable living and still pursue a recording career, in the hopes of “breaking through and making it”. So talent is more a factor than money.
It was always kinda offputting to me, esp how many rockstars from the 70s and 80s molested 14 year olds
Isn't Steven Tyler dealing with a Statutory Story right now?
JAMES
And we now have the likes of MGK who somehow still thinks that part of rock n roll was to be admired!! And I’m suprised that there wasn’t more people pulled him up on it.
14 year olds and even YOUNGER girls became part of their "entourage". It's insane. It was weird back then, but people just wrote it off as part of the "lifestyle". If any ordinary person had done the same there would have been backlash, but not as severe as today of course. I think it's gross. I know my parents, who were in the scene back then but a little older (in the beginning of their 20's) also thought it was really fucking gross, since they both worked with children and teenagers who's been molested. So they always saw black if an artist they loved did shit like that. They just stopped buying their records and going to their concerts. More people should have realized that fucking 13-14 year olds is *not* normal, no matter what, but even more so in a "relationship" where one have *SO* much power over the kid as their literal idol would have.
@@tessiepinkman sad, disgusting, and abusive. It was all about power over an individual and what they could get away with. Pedophile grooming.
@@tessiepinkman I think it was considered a grey area at the time. On the one hand, there were cases of clergy and others who abused minors they had access to and they were rightfully condemned.
The perceived difference when it came to rock stars was that it was the minors who were actively doing the pursuing, blowing bouncers to get backstage etc. and then offering themselves on a plate to the rock stars.
Plus I think there was a sort of consensus at the time that people just expected every kind of excess and illegal activity when it came to rock stars. It was almost encouraged.
I remember in the 1980's reading in newspapers about Bill Wyman from the Rolling Stones and his then girlfriend Mandy Smith. They first got together when he was 47 and she was 13.
The tone of the articles was that it was certainly weird but, having said that, he wasn't arrested or anything.
You highlighted something that I am not sure anyone has mentioned. The change from Albums bringing the money to bringing in not a lot, to Live shows now bringing in the money... this is one reason why ticket prices are now £100 a show from the £60 a show 5 years ago.
all it does is kill people off way too soon. I mean just look at the 27 club. im 29 and it feels like im barely starting to figure stuff out. Justin and many others are lucky to have survived addictions before they slipped up and made a life costing mistake.
Rock'n'Roll (sort of like being a biker) is a state of mind and you don't need to be out of your skull or crawling with STIs to live it. The audience deserves the best show they can have and for most of us* that means being sober until at least after the show (* theatre, in my case).
I’d rather have my music heroes healthy, clean, sober, and respecting themselves. We’ve lost far too many brilliant artists far too soon.
To me Rock N Roll has always been about counter culture. And nowadays where even pop stars do the sex and drugs thing and often behave in stupid ways, Rock should be more than that. I think modern Rock should be rebellious by being intelligent, introspective and progressive cause these tropes are currently not celebrated in mainstream music.
The older one gets, self preservation becomes more of a priority...
Wow, you really hit the nail on the head with the well articulated 'album supports the tour' analogy.
It might be uncool, possibly even have elements of illegality, might even be unhealthy, but it's a hell of a lot of fun.
*disclaimer and advice*
Stay in school kids. Don't do drugs, smell it before you taste it, pulling out isn't quitting, and always carry bail money.
the point of the album-tour correlation is SO SPOT ON
Justin Fucking Hawkins Rides Againnnnn!!! 🎶🎶🎶
🎵 Aaaaaagainnnnn….🎶🎶🎶 🥰
Can you do an episode explaining how musicians get paid on tour? Per gig? Per Week? Per tour etc...
I think it's a symptom of increased sobriety in society as a whole. I think the younger generation think alcohol is kind of uncool. It puts you out of control - things get broken people get broken. We are long gone from the days when alcohol was the only anesthetic to hand or whatever. I still drink but a lot less and very rarely. I'm from a family where alcohol is a kind of way of life, such as my uncle being a veteran of the old wet navy that got its rum ration. Even so, all of us have cut down to some degree.
And I wonder if immigration has impacted this 😞 x
@@ladylove3636in what way?
Just joined thanks for your time and effort really enjoy your chats
I honestly can't imagine wanting to get shitfaced drunk while on the road. The idea of driving or walking through airports and flying with a hangover is just not appealing.
Having flown with a hangover I can tell you that the reality is even less pleasant than the idea.
@@aaronleverton4221 Ugh. I don't envy you, my friend. I hope that it wasn't a long flight at least, and that you got to sleep through the majority of it.
@@TheSeanCreagh It was remarkably short, just across Bass Strait, but that meant the ascent and descent were far closer together, compounding the effect. Also the plane was much smaller, so it bounced around, further compounding the effect. The stewardess took enough pity on me to commiserate by describing ferrying green-faced Schoolies home from Queensland.
You're young, but not in the stupid bracket, you have the pretty' lady's near-sole attention and it's because you were stupid last night and are in no condition to impress her with your charm this morning. An entirely self-inflicted injury.
That's why your not a fucking rockstar init dude lol😂
I lived in LA for a couple of years when I was 19 or so. It was 1978. I went out there with the band I was in. Musically and socially, we were on the periphery of some rock stars. l noticed that other bands were either straight edge, or just total fuck-ups. There weren't that many in the middle. I eventually got(even more)into drugs like everybody else, the only legal one being alcohol. I'm surprised I'm still alive. I partied SO hard. I'm glad it's cleaning up, but I remember those days fondly.
Such an acute analysis of the shift in the industry brought about by tech/talent proliferation/covid. Fascinating to see how even the touring environment is catching up with other workplaces.
The gigging rock star seems now to be (by and large) more socially responsible than the politicians!!! 🤣
I need Justin to start narrating audiobooks.
I’m sure the debauchery will return; but the behaviours of bands/artists certainly inform my engagement with their music. E.g., if they exhibit toxic masculinity, racism, ageism = I’m not interested in them or their ‘product’.
Rush is one of my favorite bands. They stayed clear of excessive partying and nonsense. It got old watching rock stars get more weird as time went on. It was painful and obvious watching Kirk Cobain and Chester Bennington and others spiral downward and looking miserable. No one steps up to intervene. Hip Hop has lost so many artists because they went the heroin and various drugs route. It's a death sentence.
I honestly can’t think of even one hip hop artist that has died from heroin. Also, Chester Bennington didn’t die from anything even remotely related to substance abuse.
@@Junkhead91You're right that Chester Bennington didn't die from substance abuse, but I believe the substance abuse he experienced over the years was one of the things that lead him down a dark path, as well as past tramas.
Hip hop artists that have died over the last few years from drug overdose include Coolio, Mac Miller, Lil Peep, Juice World - from fentanyl, cocaine, heroin, prescription drugs, alcohol.
@@pureamoursoul yeah they all died of accidental fentanyl overdoses. Nothing to do with cocaine or heroin. Chester offed himself after one of his best friends and mentors (Chris Cornell) killed himself. Literally nothing to do with drugs of any kind.
@@pureamoursoul Thank you. Know-it-all's drive me crazy. I said Heroin and various drugs plus opioids is a form of heroin. My whole point was we have lost numerous artists to drugs and alcohol related deaths. Drug use leads to depression. Even though a person can become clean, the brain chemistry changes them permanently. Thanks for clarification. I don't even respond to many posts anymore because there is always someone who wants to argue or disagree even when proof is right at their finger tips.
Alex lifeson was a functional alcoholic until 1992 and they smoked more weed than Snoop Dogg.
I think not drinking is truly rock n roll, having the nerve and ability to do that in this crazy world is deeply impressive...
This is why rock is dead lmao. No fun. Just a bunch of oldheads talking about sobriety
Hi Justin. This'll probably get buried, but on the off chance that you do read this, I just want to say thank you.
I've been off drinking and smoking for 5 months and counting at the time of writing this, and I just want to say that speaking about your experience and watching your sobriety continue has helped me motivate myself to stay sober, and many, many others too. You've also added to my deep love for music and drive to create.
Keep it up. And again, thank you.
There you go, my dude, consider us signed up
for me rocknroll means making music from your heart, having fun or channeling and transforming your inner demons and struggles, making and playing music that feeds your spirit... honest music. So, any genre can be pretty rocknroll... gospel, salsa, you name it, it's more about the approach
The band Cake covers this topic in this song Rock and Roll lifestyle:
"Excess ain't rebellion
You're drinkin' what they're selling now
Your self-destruction doesn't hurt them
Your chaos won't convert them
They're so happy to rebuild it
You'll never really kill it"
Almost 500K subs… you had a good run man. Wishing you all the best in the future!
Sex drugs and "rock n roll" never dies, it just morphs into whatever is hot at the time but the general attitude never goes away
I love your aspect on these different subjects Justin, it's always very interesting to listen to you talk and give your opinion on the mattez 😅 🤘
if I were a rock star I would be dead, proberbly good job I'm just a welder.
I think one huge difference in the entertainment industry in general, is that the internet opened the gates in terms of people making content. This has led to the rise of entrepreneur artists... the most successful of which built podcasts, or youtube channels, or harnessed social media to reach an audience. Live is still crucial for the money side of the industry, but it isn't the place of discovery anymore. Meaning in recent years, most new big artists use the internet to get an audience- then take a live show through the areas with supporters. I believe that in the case of newer most music artists , record labels function like investment banks. The artist entrepreneur builds a business, then a label can offer all sorts of services and capital to help grow that business. I think the above situation makes it so that musicians have their act together.
I love getting your take on things Justin - always well thought out, well articulated and honest. I'm glad you and Jenny will be doing another podcast soon - love those!
I feel the everything you're saying is that rock 'n roll is not rock 'n roll anymore. You might as well be playing the flute in the Berlin Philharmonic...Yes, yes I know.... playing in the Berlin Philharmonic is rather hardcore, but who would have thought that they are harder than rockstars. Why has the world gone so soft? It makes me sad.
The "Rock n Roll Lifestyle" has taken way too many of our favorite artists and their fans alike before their time. I have seen shows (luckily it was only a handful, going back to the excesses of 80's hair bands) over the years where someone enbibed a bit too much and it was a disappointment because they could not perform, forgot words, etc. If it's over, then it may be a good thing for those on both sides of the stage.
I think there are two main reasons:
1.) the obvious: social media. young people simply can't get away with the kind of rock star behavior (for better or worse) that was prevalent in the 70s and 80s (or for that matter, 90s/early 2000s). Your reputation will immediately be squashed and your local scene will have you cancelled before you even break out big.
2.) The peak of "rock star" behavior (ie: sex/drugs/groupies/etc) was only 20-30 years after rock music took shape in the mid 50s. It was still a young genre, as were most of the musicians and fans. With each passing decade, the target audience of rock music ages along with it. In 2023, listening to rock music would be the equivalent of listening to bluegrass, polka or dixieland jazz in the 70s or 80s. It's old people music. Even bands from the 90s (who are still popular.) are now in their mid 50s. The minds and bodies of middle aged men and women are simply not designed to handle copious amounts of casual sex , drugs and alcohol by that age, and the young people who can are more interested in bands that their parents aren't trying to shove down their throat (something that honestly makes me cringe. I find it super ridiculous when I see parents who listened to punk try to dress up their children like little punk rockers for example.)
Back in 2013 while recording in Vancouver, I later found out our producer had previously vetted us with our label A&R to ensure there weren’t any substance abuse issues in the band before agreeing to produce. Later while recording, he was teasing us in front of Bob Ezrin, who was mixing the album, over no drugs and no women around the studio. Bob immediately took up for us saying ‘I get it. Back in my day drugs were clean and fucking couldn’t kill you’. I’ve heard things for Canadian artists have improved around acceptance of sobriety but I took so much flack anytime I would turn down alcohol while touring.
Wow, Bob is cool as fuck. He's been around enough 'precise' people to know what it requires to accomplish intense work.
The showman element of rock n roll will never die but I’m glad the negative harm people used to do to themselves it’s more about being on top of your game and that cane be done addicted to a substance be it alcohol or drugs,
Keep the positive vibes 🎸⚡️🙏
The Rock n Roll lifestyle is old hat, personally I feel bands should be in the best shape possible to put on the best show possible, if I'm paying that much for a ticket I wanna see a good show, see you in Newcastle Justin
Hey Justin I subscribed to your channel about a month ago and am pleasantly surprised. Your so articulate and good at explaining in layman's terms. Keep it up your a great podcast and such a nice guy even when reading nasty comments finding some good in them. Justin for P.M.🎉
Rock and Roll is in your heart, brain and soul!
In my humble opinion, rock stars should live a 'rock n roll' lifestyle when they're young. It goes with the territory.
I'm not advocating damaging their minds or bodies irreparably but yes have fun .... lots of fun.
I played in cover and original band throughout the 80's and 90's so I know what it means when you say R&R lifestyle. I am glad for its end for me personally. I couldn't maintain it and survive such as it was. But while I was in the middle of it all it was Glorious! Girls, booze and other libations were plentiful. And while I never got to your level Justin, I loved it on a perhaps smaller scale, but lived it all the same. I feel a little bad for the guys coming up as they missed out on the way it was
For my part, it was one hell of a ride...
I have some buddies who have worked backdstage at jam band gigs and they said hardly anyone drank more than a beer and no one was really even smoking weed except the stage crew. There are so many talented musicians these days that the old lifestyle isn’t worth putting up with for the most part.
Rock’n’Roll was once an attitude. A way one could present themselves to the world. Defiant. Individualistic. Rebellious. Hedonistic. And sadly, often misogynistic. The world changed. And rock’n’roll changed too. Now it is a feeling. When I hear great rock’n’roll (plenty of bands from all eras and age groups still make great rock’n’roll music) I feel alive. I feel free. I feel hope for the future. And I feel a bond between the entire human race. The band generates these feelings through the music they create. And we, the fans, feel them. A concert now is an expression of what it is to feel free. Even if for only a moment. Rock’n’roll will never die.
The legendary jazz guitarist Path Metheny makes it quite clear that his longevity in the industry is precisely because he avoided the drugged out 'lifestyle' that comes with jazz. He points out that there is a cost to that lifestyle, a continual decline in your abilities, while he felt that he was able to continuosly improve as he aged.
Pat is a legend. Seen him live, a wonderful artist.
ironic for a guy with meth in his name lmao
@@heresay_36I had to laugh! Well spotted!!!
Music is now free. Touring is where the money is and it has probably raised expectations and insurance costs (especially for older bands). Roger Daltrey said that the last Who tour required a day between shows in order to meet the requirements of the insurance company. Many bands offer VIP packages...can you imagine if you paid $2K-3K (or more!) and the band was out of it for your 5 minute meet and greet? Disappointment for sure.
you don't have to be a rocker to live the rock n roll life. currently rappers are doing it
Justin, I’m loving the longer hair! 🩷
When I was a teen, I thought Zepp's off-stage antics were rock and roll, grrrrrrrr! As an adult, I think, "Hmmmm, statutory rape and vandalism. Not cool. Would still have been awesome without that." You get older and live more and develop a more mature perspective on things. And social cultures do the same, it just takes longer than for an individual. Thanks for posting!
I’m surprised none of those situations have come back to haunt them. The fish incident springs to mind.
@@glenh2752 Gods among men do not suffer consequences!
GOOD. Like you said, the live is where the only money is. With tickets for even Indie bands being 50+ bucks, you put on a shit show - that crowd ain't coming back.
1. You're having a really good hair day here.
2. I am 100% willing to pay the higher ticket prices nowadays knowing it's your primary livelihood as opposed to physical albums sales (I'm a Gen-X'er, so I still feel the need to buy CDs.)
3. I'm profoundly sad you're not coming to Vancouver, BC on the Permission to Land 20th Anniversary Tour. I hope you'll come back with the next album.
Coming from a 68 year old musician, yeah, I used to party like a mad idiot. But that was when I could 35 years ago. Touring with Killer Bee in the 90's, we were known as a hard drinking party band. These days though, nope. Just can't do it anymore and still perform at a pro level.
"Sex and Drugs" was never a cliche for "Rock n' roll" artists only.
It was and it is a cliche for "stars", comng from music, theatre TV or Cinema.
Do they all do that?
Of course not, but if you think about people with a lot of free time, groupies and money to get that lfestyle, they could ad sometimes did.
Is it "over"?
No, but people working in "rock and roll" can't afford it anymore.
Never get bored listening to you, rock on..
All things come and go for whatever reason the main thing is to enjoy it while it lasts. I loved debauched rock n roll now I love taking my dog for a walk.
I don't think that the drinking has something to do with the success. Imagine going back again to 2003 to 2006 being sober but 'drunk' with the joy and high of being successful, of performing for a large crowd and being admired for your music and rock personas. Do you really need to have alcohol, and drugs? You could have continued without the hiatus, maybe only a short one for recreational purposes. 😌
I see a different phenomenon. The lockdowns were hard for people who had mental issues and had an addictive personality, and when everything opened up again, they started partying like it was going out of style. And the drugs are everywhere.
The lockdowns have definitely brought out the worst selfishness in people who are prone to that kind of behavior, in every way. There is still a sad percentage of folks who are furious that they didn't get to do everything they wanted for a year or so, and they're still trying to get revenge on the world at random or make up for lost time with bad habits and behavior. Rich and entitled people have largely given up on being decent with others, and are just trying to be the worst shits stealing the most resources, and I know damn well there's a lot of cocaine fueling that egotism and shit behavior.
Good one! A lot to think about- new era…
I think the change in looking, or being wasted on stage has come about because so many kids have access to ipads, tablets, phone etc... and can see so much more now than in pre internet days. You see at shows that there is a massive portion of the crowd that are much younger than before and it ain't the best look or idea to be off your face in front of the younger generation. In the 70's, 80's and 90's the fan base for these types of bands were much older than nowadays.
I'm a bit late to this party but I did great from alcohol. I played Sid Vicious in the Sex Pistols Experience tribute band. I was Sid for ten + years. I used vodka to get into character. As a salute to Glen I played like him but looked like Sid. Adding to the visual/sonic experience. I'd start drinking about an hour before I went in. Drank water disguised in a vodka bottle and vodkas and coke to make sure I could 'sing' the Sid songs near the end. It worked. I could chat for ages about the amazing nights I had off my face. Yes, three nights later, before you go on you just stare at the green room floor thinking "oh fuck" but nature finds a way. She gets you through. Much kudos to you Justin for resisting cos I can't. Sex and drugs and rock and roll. It's the best cliché ever.
Anything or everything will go out of fashion as time moves on. But Rock N Roll Will never fade. It will always go in a circle. Rock n roll will be back
Everything including music is supposed to go full circle.
Nature is cyclical
Bombard me with mailed musings and music, my man.
I think another part of the change is that we got to see our heroes decline into mere shells of their former selves because of the partying.
Compare an artist that has burned themselves down to almost nothing (no names, not trying to start a fanboy fight) and the ones that took care of their voices; ones that are still touring after 40+ years in the business.
Partying or not you will one day be a shell of your former self tho.
@@declanosullivan8770I disagree. If you care for yourself and age gracefully you aren't just a spent husk of your extended adolescence.
Edit:
For sake of comparison, compare Ian Gillan at the end of his career with Bruce Dickinson who is still performing to this day. One took great care of their voice and the other did not.
@@kevinkorenke3569 okay so what did you do inbetween ?
@@kevinkorenke3569 so bruce is better than he was and always will be until he dies ?
@@declanosullivan8770see, this is the kind of Fanboy style arguing I really didn't want to get into.
As for your question about me, I've lived my life as healthily as I can and made a decision a while ago to age gracefully, there's no reason to fight what is unavoidable.
As far as Bruce Dickinson is concerned, I simply mentioned him because he is a good example of someone who learned very early on the importance of caring for your voice as it is your instrument as the lead singer of a band. Think of Rob Halford, Ronnie James Dio, there are a number of musicians that had decades-long careers mainly because they knew to take care of their instrument.
Ian Gillan from deep purple did not do that and the cumulation of wear and tear on his voice definitely shows. You see it in other musicians, look at Miley Cyrus and the changes her voice went through when she felt she had to keep up with the party circuit in her youth.
The human voice changes as you get older, the highs don't quite get so high and the lows don't always go so low. If you grow into your voice as it grows with you then you are able to extend your career much more successfully.
Damiano David recently did an long podcast interview with Allison Hagendorf (you might find it interesting), and in it he was asked about drugs, and he talked about how though he's not hardcore against drugs or drinking, he felt that it was disrespectful to the fans, and all the money they spend on tickets and coming to a show, if you got on stage drunk or so high you can't give the audience your best. If you don't give your best, you might as well give the audience their money back, because they're not getting the experience they paid for.
As time goes on, more comes out on why the debauchery took place. It seems a little darker than once thought. Some examples…John Bonham missing his family, Keith Moon accidentally killing his friend, the Beatles taking uppers to stay awake to play in Hamburg, the requirement of the record companies for bands to tour relentlessly without a day off. It doesn’t excuse a lot of it, just gives a little more depth to the reasons why. Also, concurrently, I’ve noticed some of the sixties, (especially) seventies and eighties stars haven’t done well in the public eye today. There are some cringeworthy quotes and takes on life coming out of a lot of them in recent years.
Rock and roll lifestyle has always been an optional extra. Paul McCartney, Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Bruce Springsteen, and Billy Joel (amongst many artists) have never done hard drugs. Could be positives for an artist to consider in hiring backing dancers. Not only could they provide The Darkness with choreographed moves and harmonised vocals, but they could also catch (and hand off to stagehands) generous rock and roll gifts from the audience, such as pints of beer, coins, smartphones, and the like.
*cough* Elton John. “Never done hard drugs” 😅 hate to break it to you but…. 😂😂😂
@@NinStardustlol yeah, pretty sure his song ‘I’m still standing’ is about his drink/drug abuse
@@NinStardust Elton quit drugs and alcohol for good in 1990, but yes he did those to excess before that date.
I don’t know about Paul, specifically, but there’s a story about a doctor who gave the Beatles a jar of pharmaceutical flake (cocaine).
@@SuziQ. McCartney was into soft drugs. During a Wings tour of Japan he was arrested and eventually deported after a customs officials discovered half a pound of marijuana in his luggage. Rather, it was John Lennon who got into hard drugs and became a heroin addict. That was a problematic development for The Beatles in the late '60s.
When you said "It's changed. It's a lot more..." and paused I really expected you to finish with "...boring." 😂
Rock n Roll life style is to me a finger to the establishment which means breaking rules, primarily moral ones. Question is if sex, drinking and drugs is the best way of doing it in 2023? The establishment seems to be really good at that themselves.
I never understood why my mates wanted to get wasted before getting on atage. More than 1 pint & I started to feel a serious loss of control in my voice.
That said, I was - and am still - a big fan of after-parties, but these have always been a kind of long winding-down affair, drinking a few beers over a few hours, and almost always with no commitments the following day.
Such is the life of a local musician 😊 and I would never trade it for huge venue/stadium rock.
Local music is best.
In the 60's no one knew better. In fact, for a time it was believed psycho-active drugs and drug use generally would open up the world to a new sort of utopian cooperation. Fast forward 60+ years and it should be clear to all that drug use, debauchery, licentious and self-destructive behavior, aren't just damaging to the individuals that engage in it; they're damaging to all of society. Music and the performance arts are a wonderful aspect of what it is to be human. But the affectations of that have often accompanied this culture, when immoral, illegal, and damaging to self and others, should be, and increasingly are, to be condemned. Excellent.
At our Festivals, the rider was on the promoter.
“Before we start please take a moment to subscribe to the mailing list”, in world where most of us are our own managers and self promoting who’s gonna go nuts.
Rock n roll, comes from the heart... The willing ness to make it!!
Most of the hardest partying rockers back in the day were self medicating to get through the endless grueling album/tour cycles. They wouldn’t stop unless they died or the money and gigs ran out.😵💫
I have a cousin who's main thought of any new band he hears that seems to have potential is, "What great music are they going to make when they go through their heroin phase?" (and he's only half-kidding).
I've heard opium can put an Ode to a Nightingale into your head, so I suppose there might be something to this "drugs make the music" idea, but loving music since you were a little kid surely also has a role? And spending all that time getting off just on the sound? And then getting in sync with band mates? (This is moving into the realm where booze is detrimental to creativity, at least).
I think an unconventional to rebellious approach is the main thing something that makes your bowels spontaneously empty would help with? Without some will to go a bit against the grain, you're not going to come up with anything fresh. (But then the most "high-attitude" bands don't often do that, anyway?)
The question, though is, "Is it _necessary_ ?" And the answer must be, "Of course not." (? But this question mark should be very, very small.)
As someone in a decades long intanglement with opiodes and also someone who writes and records I think there definitely is something to what your talking about but the window of opportunity to produce something that has a profound connection with people is so small in heavy addiction...the rest of it is just a lot of hard times..I often think a lot of the music by people in addiction is kind of like the screams someone might make while they are being murdered slowly..there might be three notes in those screams that make the whole thing compelling but its still going cost..of course It is interesting but you'd hope there could be a way to mine it and survive..move onto something else after you know.."is it necessary?"..I dont think is but its usally too late by the time you ask those questions,.there is just the thought that If your going to go down with the ship you would want to leave those three notes for posterity so theres something..of course all this is subjective but I do think most musos in addiction will take more risks to produce something that connects..clean living bands tend to stick to commercial logic and it comes through on record tbh
@@Danielallanz I suppose the main danger is that someone about to start can see the "Ode to a Nightingale", but not the pain, and the terrible cost of it. (Although most people are just going to be curious about the mind trips their friends are telling them about - so in search of something completely personal, and expected to be ephemeral.)
I think maybe it comes down to whether or not there should be a choice. (Of taking a big risk to explore beyond the limits, or of just looking for a better kick).
If I was the Emperor, I would make everything legal, and sold under a crown monopoly. The restriction would be that you can't start until you've tried to achieve the result, using something less dangerous, and you'd have to first prove you know what you're doing. (So would have to talk to people who've been there before, people who've studied whole populations of drug explorers - know the facts, but as personally as possible.)
Free choice, but not so free it's casual, and make some provision for picking up the pieces afterwards where we have to. It might be able to achieve some of the legitimate aims of the "war-on-drugs" type approach by just gaining control of the doorways. (Probably not even close to perfect, but I would guess the impact wold be better than just trying to beat and frighten people out of this.)
And I've heard of people who thrive on drugs, too, so at least for some outliers there's nothing to protect them from.
If, in the process of learning the true facts one could try to pick up whether the drugs are just self medication for depression, that might save some people (of those who'll need saving one day).
If I was Emperor, too, when someone took the wrong choice, and then crashed to rock bottom, to the point where crime was looking like the only way to pay to sustain the addiction, I would just give the ones who fall really hard their drugs, if they don't want anything else. (Add a crash down insurance premium to the off the shelf cost of any hit, maybe?) If the idea is to just "save the world" (by fighting a war to save it, for instance), then it's a bit thick starting with the finger waggling when the pain kicks in.
Sorry, I've gone on a bit there. Hobby horse of mine. I might be a bit obsessed with this.
I think the ease of virtual access and obviously the enforced isolation of covid times has impacted rock n roll culture. Every success these days is defined more and more by UA-cam and Spotify vibes more than press headlines because that's how most people access music. But then also the sheer intelligence and sensitivity and sense of fun live and through the work of the artists individually plays a huge part....there's an element of better to be safe than sry now because historically there have been so many out there boundary pushing artists (more power to them!!)... the majorly hedonistic partying I don't care stuff has been done before, and by people who really meant it....and who wants to constantly regurgitate any culture that might feel pretentious if you intentionally follow it just to fit in or try to stand out. The audience is also intelligent enough to sense authenticity especially live. Personally I don't care what an artist does as long as I feel it is authentic and expressive and entertaining and bloody good! Seen so many shifts in music over the years I do know sometimes that any change is usually good....as long as new artists are doing what the hell they want to do.🤘🤘🤘🤘🖤 so ironically if you want to on purposely be a rebel.... go for it. Just don't expect everyone to enjoy that way of life.
Also have to wonder what effect the deaths of everyone in that lifestyle (Jimi Hendrix to Amy Winehouse), and the knowledge of if you keep getting drunk you don't pay attention to whom owns the music you create or how the money gets divided. The label will set up the parties but the artist will be paying for it on the back end...
I know being a Thrash Metal drummer in the mid/late 80's that style of music would be impossible if your body was in bad shape. Looked fun, but absolutely impossible to sound good. You learn real quick. It's a positive for the industry in my opinion. Makes for better performances.
How did Alcoholica do it then lol…
@@pytski4345musicians or creative in honestly were built different. We're in the participation trophy were now.
@@pytski4345they couldn't maintain it at all. May have appeared like it, but they were a wreck
@@pytski4345 and really, did Lars sound like he was anywhere near coherent behind that kit most nights? 😂(Transparency, I am a drummer). One minute of St. Anger is all you need to hear for a case study in substances making you think you sound better than you really do. Lol.
Also in the interest of transparency, I've played while being so absolutely hammered, I threw up twice during 1 gig, and just kept going. Next day, I was in the ER for severe dehydration and borderline alcohol poisoning. Charcoal milkshakes SUCK.