I mean... rats are kind of cute if you take them out of the context of disease and filth. I only had hamsters because my dad couldn't stand the tails as he would associate them with the dirty barn he had to clear out multiple times when he was a kid. What I'm trying to say is that contextualization is important. Maybe Viserys just doesn't ... dislike rats? But terminally complacent is definitely a good way to describe his demeanor. If there is one character I have sympathy for, it's Viserys. He's trying really hard at being a good familyman but he has fallen too deep into the mediator-role to actually use his powers meaningfully because he doesn't want to divide the family. Maybe Viserys let too many rats into his house in an attempt to make everyone happy, even the rats.
I think the rats symbolize a disjointed house. Family feuds and corruption while Viserys is in the midst of it watching it manifest right before his eyes. I Didn't like Laena's death, it was so vague and just meant to instigate Shock value. It's always bad when they go off script. Stick to the fucking book.
I mean the only thing you could really do about rats in that era is get a cat. Rats are very clever and hard to get rid of (especially with all those secret passages).
I do wonder if Orwyle becoming Grand Maester is how King Viserys has been able to live for an extra 10 years. In the previous episode, he was suggesting new treatments for Viserys' illness while Mellos was dismissing his suggestion.
In the books from what I know at one point Viserys fell very ill and so Orwyle suggested one course of treatment while Rhaenyra's own maester at Dragonstone was specially brought in and he suggested another method that ended up saving the Kings life (basically he took his hand or some of his fingers) but Alicent protested to having Rhaenyra's maester be listened to out of jealousy and spite. I think the show just added this as a way of showing how each maester has their own methods of healing.
There were a few really sweet moments sprinkled throughout that tugged on my heart strings. When Laenor leaves the room so Harwin could "meet" baby Joffrey, when Viserys takes out Aemma's ring and kisses it fondly, and when Rhaenyra tells Laenor to "bring him" toward the end of the episode. Great story telling, in my humble opinion.
Viserys is such a teddy bear. He just wants people to have fun and eat cookies together but everyone only wants to fight all the time. Loved his reaction to the reignited Stepping stones conflict, he's so done with that place.
I love how much of a family man he is. It adds some peace to the chaotic drama of show. He just wants to be a grandpa and sit on his porch surrounded by his family, but he doesn't realize he's a king and has to be a bit more ruthless.
@@tenkenroo I feel like that was established pretty well in GOT, i guess the assumption would be that most HOT D viewers will have seen GOT... not that that excuses it. Now that i think about it did Viserys not say something about kin slaying when referring to potentially executing Daemon?
I was happily excited to see how they made Vhagar this epic, grizzled, aircraft carrier of a beast dragon! Also, Helaena Targaryen has prophetic vision/dreams? Alicent tells Aemond, as he’s telling her why he went deep into the bowels of the Dragon Pit, “you will have a dragon one day.” The camera quickly switches to Helaena immediately saying “he’ll have to close an eye.” Spooky 👻
@@kegdoty they could have had a couple episodes exploring larys's relationship with his family. You're never given the impression that he dislikes them for any reason, you'd expect there to be at least some hesitation over ordering the deaths of your own father and brother. Obviously he's a schemer but that's a pretty massive leap
In fact, last episode they seemed to be at least amicable at the wedding, when they were talking and they didnt seem to ostracized him because of his disability or anything so yeah it comes up as a little bit of a huge leap
I think that part of Criston’s pure rage is the fact that he sees Harwin basically living the life he walked away from, and it’s going fairly well for Harwin for quite some time. Criston has so much self-loathing that he’s diverted and focused on Rhaenyra. He’s angry because of his own choices and it’s eating him alive. That’s why Alicent is a kindred soul.
i feel like criston cole in a way represents the nice guy phenomena. he couldnt handle rejection, and resents her for it 10 years later. also alicent represents the nice girl phenomena, she feels she is better than rhaenyra because she stuck to the rules and played by the sexist rules men made for them.
@@eliseph i also get a feel that both criston and alicent have this sense of entitlement of being rewarded for following rules, being honorable, being participants in this rigid society that doesn’t respect them as a lowborn/woman and puts them in restrictive roles And they get frustrated and lash out at others who seem to be rewarded more for doing less like rhae and harwin when things don’t go their way
I mean both Criston and Alicent were screwed over by Rhaenyra, Alicent tried to be kind to Rhaenyra and she believed her lie about losing her virginity even if it weakened her family and Criston broke his oath over nothing because Rhaenyra only saw him as a fucktoy, hell, the entire reason why he was able to be a kingsguard was because of his looks which must have been a haunting realization for him lol
@@zazazaaazzzaaz The character writing seems fine. I say the. Bigger issues are the unnecessary violence and deaths that don't really contribute much and adds more questions. Such as how did Criston get away with murder in a royal wedding.
I am upset that we were robbed of both Laenor/Rhaenyra/Harwin and Daemon/Laena. They all have changed so much and showing R coming to terms with being pregnant and giving birth the first time seems important because she has so much trauma related to it. Why L+R didn’t do «their duty» after all. Daemon sorting out his issues. Dealing with the aftermath with Cole etc. Just one more episode with the young cast could have been good.
@@Neil-qg9cw He's clearly very close to Allicent now and she's the only one that knows / cares about what he did - and he's now the combat mentor to the sons and their protector
I don't think there's ever been a time-jump in a series where everything has been laid out on a plate for us so expertly. An aspect of art is leaving some things to our imagination - we know what changes R has went through and what she's done in the 10 years since we last saw her
Viserys refusing that Strong steps back as the Hand is actually pretty smart. Him stepping back right after his son gets openly accused of being the father of Rhaenyras children would just confirm the accusations to the public. So Viserys refusing might just be for good „publicity“
Jaha tk muze maloom hai ki Targerian aag se nhu jalte hai But idhar to kuch alag hi dikha rahe hai Hame dekha hai game of thrones me Dyanerys Targerian kaise jalati hai khal drogo ke dushmano ko aur khud nahi jalti aag me Aur jab Dragon ke eggs se jb dragon nikalte hai tabh bhi wo raat bhar aag me hi rehti hai hamari Denarius 😊😊😊 Pr idhar to Targerian apna ilaj tk aag se nhi kr paa rahe hai😭😭😭 Kya show bana diya yar boring Isse accha to wo dark moon pe focus jarte aur show banate
Agree! And I know Viserys' actions may seem like it's just him loving his daughter or "turning a blind eye" but I don't believe it's just for the sake of being a decent guy who doesn't like war, I feel like he truly knows behind all these decisions that the fate of the world (the white walker prophecy) depends on a Targaryen being on the throne and at this point only house Targaryen could tear it's self down.
This episode really made me feel like Otto did Alicent a terrible disservice by putting fear for her life and the lives of her children into her. Honestly, honestly, just about everyone seems cool with Jacaerys ascending following Rhaenyra except Alicent and Criston
How could you possibly know that? No one but the Targaryens would be allowed to voice an opinion on the matter on pain of death and we’ve heard from no one outside this circle on how they feel about it. Until E4, you would have said everyone was cool with Rhaenyra becoming Queen because no one opposed it, but when people think no one’s listening, they make plays about how much they want Aegon.
@@Longshanks1690 yes, and pushing his daughter into the position so his house gains more power through the royal family and also instilling fear and paranoia that her friend would kill her and her kids just to get a fancy chair totally was for the realm, right? Otto's a snake deluded into believing he is right. Yes there are fuck ups on both sides, But House Hightower clearly wants more power and will play the game to get it.
The moment with viserys crying and kissing aemmas ring after learning that rhaenyra had left and the strongs were dead was very sad. He's a good man but a bad king 😔
@@olorin4317 he could have just take up Rhanearya offer of marrying the two kids to avoid a civil war instead of letting Alicent selfishly reject the proposal to put her son Aegon as king. Yeah, he is a good man but would make a bad king.
Your restraint when it comes to spoilers is what keeps me tuning into these. My trust in other channels that break down this show has been severed because they can’t resist giving things away as a way of constantly reminding their viewers that they, in fact, have read the books.
It baffles me why they can't get 12 episodes at least per season. Hasn't the IP earned more than 10? People know it's money. How much does it really cost to add 2 or 3 more episodes
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy more episodes would’ve helped, but damn they could’ve cut out some of the earlier stuff if they were going to be pressed for time
That's the kind of thing I told myself when I saw season 7, that they increased the pace to set everything up to slow down for the last season... I hope the trend stops here, I don't want to be hurt again.
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy there's a thousand things that go into planning and making just one episode. It not necessarily always about how much money is made.
I don’t think he’s too over the top. Taking initiative to kill dangerous actors, and to put yourself up in the line of succession by using the disadvantaged as your catspaw isn’t too over the top for me.
In the original GoT if two highborn lords got burned like that, we wouldn’t have any idea who did it. This show just isn’t the same. Dragons dragons dragons dragons
I think Alicent rebuffed the betrothal offer because she believes that Rhaenyra's kids will one day be outed as bastards, and her daughter and any children she had would be in danger. Also, Alicent believes that Aegon is the true heir anyway and cannot stomach the farce.
That is a good explanation, but at least I would have needed that to be explained on screen. Also, she kind of misses the point. Targaryens have power because of the dragons, the parentage is irrelevant as long as Rhaenyras and her kids have dragons. Alicent should know that marrying with the heir would be the best protection for her kids.
@@SorbusAucubaria I agree that this wasn't a good move on Alicent's part. Her resentment is clouding her judgement and preventing her from seeing the big picture. Your point is excellent, I wish she would take your advice!
The people of Westeros view bastards as treacherous, no one wants to marry their highborn child to a bastard. That’s the lowest of the low to these people. For Alicent Rhanera suggesting her daughter a true born Targaryen Princess marry her bastard son is a kick in the face.
Yeah, she is making a big mistake and starting a war by declining Rhaenyra marriage proposal. The show is writing her and Ser Criston Cole like a pair of emotionally unstable antagonists 😅
It’s just like The Omen “Damien” series of songs by DMX.. when he finds out he’s deep..$h!t 🗣After what I just gave you, with you actin' like that when you asked for that favor) Yo, I ain't ask you for shit (Oh yes you did, when you really needed something, and you allowed me to give You sold me ur soul when you didn’t say No” Now give me what you owe…👀 the parallels are crazy rip the Darkman X
HILARIOUSLY PUT, but 100% accurate as well. This guy is supposed to be this series’ genius level manipulator, and leaves his insignia on them. Thank you no one else is mentioning this.
My first thought after watching that scene, "What's the point In removing their tongues so they can't speak, if you're just going to pin your insignia on them"
Well in the book he did get Missaria pregnant but she loss the child due to a miscarriage while travelling at sea on her way back to Essos because the King forced Daemon to send her away and return to his Bronze Bitch. I don't rightly know why they changed this in the show to be honest as if she has some great aversion to having kids.
Great episode but sucks ser Harwin died so quick. Was a cool character. Also kinda felt like larys’ murder of his brother and father came out of nowhere.
I really wanted Alicent to have a moment like "you did this for me? You're a second son owed nothing, killing your father and older brother gives you everything. Yet you claim this is for me, and want me to further reward you for this??". Come on Alicent, you've been in court your whole life, been queen for over a decade, you should know when you're having one pulled over on you.
@@kieffer4615 guess so much happened offscreen in the 10yrs that they'll never bring up to us, we just have to assume something happened or there's a reason, and that's really poor
It was quite sad that the two people who had the best of intentions for those around them ended up dying by fire : Harwin and Laena. I actually liked that Laena was able to end her life on her own terms as beautifully tragic as it was, Vhagar was definitely reluctant to do so. I wish we saw more of her But from what we were able to see she was definitely portrayed like a Westeros tomboy in that she wanted to go out like a dragon rider. I also liked that we as an audience don’t hear what decision daemon made.. we just see his devastation looking upon her death
Jaha tk muze maloom hai ki Targerian aag se nhu jalte hai But idhar to kuch alag hi dikha rahe hai Hame dekha hai game of thrones me Dyanerys Targerian kaise jalati hai khal drogo ke dushmano ko aur khud nahi jalti aag me Aur jab Dragon ke eggs se jb dragon nikalte hai tabh bhi wo raat bhar aag me hi rehti hai hamari Denarius 😊😊😊 Pr idhar to Targerian apna ilaj tk aag se nhi kr paa rahe hai😭😭😭 Kya show bana diya yar boring Isse accha to wo dark moon pe focus jarte aur show banate
Viserys missing an arm was the first thing I noticed as he walked in to see his newborn grandchild lol. I was like "Is that sleeve fully floppy" he looked SO old
I really liked the scenes with the Strong characters. Especially when Lyonel scolds Harwin and then when Harwin says goodbye to his children which Jace takes notice
I love how GRRM could come up with the most badass houses name (lannister , Baratheon,targaryen...etc) , but sometimes he just go lazy and went "yep House StRoNg it is"
@@WoodBlock707 Better than having your husband order his medics to cut you open (killing you in the process) while your infant child probably also doesn't survive (we saw what happened with Aemma and Baelon). At least Laena, unlike Aemma, gets to have some agency in begging Vhagar to kill her.
I don’t know what it is about Alt Shift X’s GoT/HotD content, but this channel is ruling the breakdown realm. Maybe it’s the chill demeanor, cheeky sense of humor and charismatic voice? Hard to say, but I really look forward to these every week.
Have you watched the Bloodraven video? That was the one that made me a super fan. It's all chill, very clever and insightful. And then out of nowhere he drops in a funny that literally makes you spit your drink out. So bloody good!
I thought Laena's death was a beautiful scene. I've read it and still was surprised.. I think one last ride would have been cool and not her falling off but just not coming back and Vhagar comes back alone and Daemon just knows.
Think it’s a really good parallel to the scene with Aemma’s birthing scene. Damoen is given the same choice that viserys was but Lena was smart enough to read the room and went out on her own terms.
I honestly think we could have had a filler episode exploring the 10 year gap. It would’ve been nice to see all the dysfunctional relationships before everything hit the fan. Again.
I agree! I really got whiplash from the episode, it felt like having to adapt to entirely new characters and character relationships while simultaneously mourning the loss of them when they died. I wish we’d lingered more on Laena or on Harwin and Rhaenyra’s relationship before the deaths, that way there’d be way more of an impact :(
@@Sophie-vq1xw The time jump just wasn’t well executed or set up in my opinion. They skipped over way too much and just expected the viewers to be on board immediately. Some of the recasts are also just confusing: Why do Criston and Larys look exactly the same with not even a strand of grey hair or wrinkles while Rhae and Allicent apparently aged so much that they look like completely different people. It’s just weird.
Cicadas take forever to be born - years can pass before they enter the world. Perhaps Larys chose the cicada as a hint that he has boundless patience, that he willing to play the long game.
That's a really great point. Although the time skips mean we don't get to spend as much time staying with the characters I think they've done very well in making it feel natural and letting your imagination fill in the gaps. And the larger time scale means we get to see decades-long grudges and plans play out. "The gods had yet to make a man who lacked the patience for absolute power."
"the main reason why viserys wants rhaenyra to inherit the throne is because rhaenyra is all viserys has left of his wife aemma arryn. and for viserys, it's like making rhaenyra heir is an act of love to his wife aemma" "love is the bane of honor, the death of duty. what is honor compared to a woman's love?" :(
Imagine if Allicent had just agreed to the wedding there would be no conflict. Allicen't daughter would be queen, her children would be safe from Rhynera purging them because now they wouldn't be seen as a threat. There would be no dance, and Allicent and Rhynera would have lived happily ever after and Alicent could marry someone who isn't a gross melting old man after the king finally kicked it.
Which strengthens my take even more that its not about the fear of having her children killed. Its about her still being bitter and mad about her daddy and not being told the whole truth by Rhaenyra.
Rhaenyra is really killing Alicent with kindness and yet Alicent still conspires against her. Wnat is she so upset about? That Rhaenyra lied 10 years ago? My friends have lied to me, but I’ve never plotted the downfall of their family.
Why are people so dumb. Its clear to her Rhaenyra's kids are bastards and obvious to the world. She just needs to wait for Viserys to die and then go full blast on their illegitimacy. Why would she give up Aegon's claim?
I think she refused because she KNOWS Rhanyras kids are bastards. It's insulting Alicent to ask her to give up her daughter and become complicit in Rhanyras lies about her children. If you think about it, Rhanyras is not only trying to "make nice" with Alicent. Alicent knows the kids are bastards, and she cares very much that other people know too. Rhanyra is trying to protect herself and her children by using Alicent and Halena as her shield
I was so amazed by the writing because even though we barely saw Harwin and Laena, I am heartbroken over their deaths. I'm especially sad for Rhaenyra who obviously seemed to have developed this deep relationship with Harwin. It was also super interesting seeing how paranoid Alicent is about Rhaenyra taking the throne and how she constantly puts that pressure on her kids.
You're in the minority on that. I couldn't give a crap about Laena, and I wanted to care about the Strongs but I didn't. They either should've slowed the pace and fleshed out their characters more or, God forbid, cut out a lot of the earlier filler to make room for their characterization.
In rewatching the first piece of the episode, it’s incredibly obvious that Viserys is fully missing an arm. When he holds baby Joffrey, his sleeve is just dangling there! Totally missed that the first time around. Also, kind of sweet that Laenor would want to name the baby after his late love, Joffrey.
From what I read of the books it seems like Dragons themselves are fireproof and thats usually why when they fight each other its with Tooth and Claw. That being said I think that blast of flame by Vhagar basically started dissipating as Daemon flew through it as he was not directly in the line of the flames at the moment the blast of fire occured
I would also imagine that the dragons have a very fine control of their fire. I'm sure they can control the size and intensity. Especially because that seems like a rehearsed move.
What is supposed to endear the audience to Alicent now? Making Rhaenyra walk up the stairs moments after birth. Encouraging her son who doesn't want to be king to be king knowing it would mean a war. Refusing to combine the competing bloodlines knowing it would mean peace. Complaining to Larys that no one is on her side when her side is going to war over succession because she's angry that her dad isn't hand anymore. Our sympathies felt way more balanced in the first half of the season
And what is to endear Rhaenyra to the audience? She’s pretentious to everyone, even her husband, undermining her own rule as a result of selfishness and a want to have kids with Hardin Strong despite it becoming obvious to just about everyone. She’s not only screwing her own claim, but her kids’ claims as well, which essentially are a powder keg ready to throw the realm into chaos. She doesn’t seem the least bit worried until it’s literally about to affect her little happy affair. She’s an entitled brat, and is quite clearly shown to be impulsive in her decision making, especially near the end of this episode when she leaves kings landing, allowing for the rumors to get even worse about her and further rooting her claim that she so very much desires. And with the further episodes to come she won’t get much better, believe that. Just because she doesn’t want to finish with Laenor doesn’t mean she shouldn’t fulfill her duty to the realm. But of course, she has to go about it like a prick. It forces Alicent into a position where she cannot do anything other than pressure Rhaenyra to stop the self destructive behavior and shut up for her own good. It just takes a little bit of thinking and you can poke holes all over the other side of this battle. Alicent is only as awful as Rhaenyra is forcing her to be. Added along with the betrayal, it becomes more or less understandable, despite still being mean spirited.
@Will C. nah otto fucked her mind up and manipulated her to the point she’s starting to turn into him the way shes tryna force/manipulate aegon to be king reminded me of otto manipulating her to be queen holy fuck i jus realized, otto started all this bullshit by having alicent be queen. till this day, marrying alicent was viserys dumbest mistake and that’s saying a lot cuz he’s so dumb
I can’t believe she had the nerve to talk about Viserys being blind to Rhaenyra but she doesn’t even blink or a say a word about what she caught her son doing. 🤢
I don't think it's malevolent, she's really just trying to hold the house together. Viserys is weak, his control has always been weak. Her son is spoiled and useless. Rhaenyra refuses to fulfill her duty to the realm and is in fact making a mockery of it. While cruel the politically correct move would be to make sure those children with Harwin did not survive or were otherwise exiled at birth. Without her corraling the whole thing would fall apart in seconds.
She seems to be the best ruler out of all of them so Im on her side. She is tactful and respectful, but also become very determined. Her kids though... Yea thats gonna be tough
I like that Laena got to see Vhagar one more time and somewhat got to go out on her own terms. Part of me wishes they had kept her death closer to the books where Daemon carries her back to bed. Would have loved to have seen that one last moment of tenderness between the two of them since we saw so little of their relationship already.
@@manyagaver1946 omg crying just thinking about that lol. I loved reading about Laena even though she was a fairly minor character. I wish we got to see more of her in the show. Like the friendship she had with Rhaenyra. I appreciate they tried portray her adventurous, dragon-rider spirit for the limited amount of screen time she got. Still wish we could have seen a bit more of her with Vhagar.
He could carry her to the saddle instead, like "you said you wanted to die a dragonriders death, you're currently not able to walk, I'll do this for you and then a goodbye kiss and dragon go whoosh"
What I do not understand is that Criston killed the king's consort """best friend""" simmingly randomly (on the public eye at least) during the royal wedding and got away without any consequence; while Breakbones (who is the son of the hand of the king, commander of the city-watch so I believe socially way higher than any kingsguard) beat up Criston because he and the heirs to the throne were personally insulted by him and gets banished...
So first off no, kingsguard is higher. They answer to the king alone and attacking one is like attacking the king. Also what he did was essentially justify, publicly, that there's some truth to the accusations. Cole played him like a Georgia fiddle The reason it makes no sense though is because it's an unnecessary book change. In the book Criston kills Joffrey and fucks up Harwin in one event, a tourney melee. It happens so many years after the wedding, but it's a separate event altogether. The tourney provides a plausible excuse for Cole to fuck up both the allies of Rhaenyra and ser Laenor, so it's completely legal what he does in the book
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy I don't know, ruining the royal wedding seems more serious that a fist fight after an insult, even if it could be interpreted as an admission of guilt by Breakbones
@@Death_Korps_Officer see, what he doesn’t realize when he was worried about not being sung about. Is people are most definitely remembering the King who spent most of his time building a massive model set. Like imagine if president Harrison had a massive Lego set, people would talk about him a bit more
I had the same exact idea for Laena's death. Instead of the shock value of burning herself, flying one last time and dying on dragonback would be much more poetic and beautiful imo.
The fact that it is shocking does not make it less poetic. Surely you can see the poetry in a person accepting their death and choosing to die as they will, even if you would prefer something else. Reducing it to nothing more than "shock value" seems unnecessary to me.
One scene I didn't hear mentioned in this stream is when Alicent makes a show of caring for Viserys' comfort, but once no one is around to see it, she abandons him. At first I had this glimmer of hope that maybe she does still cares for him in a way, or is at least used to doing this for him... But the SECOND that Lyonel and the servants leave, you realize it's all theater. That hit me hard. As Alicent bolted into the hallway I could only think "what happened to that sweet, innocent girl? Look at what this city/court/system/life did to this young woman who used to truly care." They turned a Sansa into a Cersei, and it saddens me.
I didn’t get this feeling. For me, Alicent didn’t help him the second time because they switched to talking about a subject she much more deeply cared about, and wanted to make her side/emotions more pronounced. I didn’t really notice the amount of ppl around each time tho, so next time I watch this scene I’ll keep an eye out and see if it makes a difference.
Did she ever genuinely care about king though? She just played the role of caring girl to become a queen and to have power for her family (following father's tips). That's why I don't see her as just noble woman who despise Rhaenyra's affairs. It feels like "I suffer through marriage without love, so others must suffer without cheating too".
I don't think they were trying to show that Daemon is fireproof when he flew thru the fire. He flew thru it really fast, so I think they were just showing them having fun, without really thinking whether or not the fire, at that speed, would burn him or not
Yeah, it really didn’t look like that fire was hot/dense/long-lasting enough to do any real burn damage. Just reminded me of a fire breather trick that looks cool and maybe dangerous, but ultimately harmless.
I think the point of the dragon pit handler was to show that he was speaking in Valaryian to teach. We are seeing the scene from Jace's POV, seen in the fact that the subtitles translate the beginning of the conversation between Jace and the handler, then as the handler speaks words in Valaryian that Jace doesn't understand we get a translator. I thought it was a really cool detail
I think skipping the character relationships is going to be a fatal error. The character relationships really color the tone and meaning of the battles in the Dance of Dragons and it seems like they're skipping all of that in favor of just getting to the battles and fire and action parts. Given how fast we're skimming over these key relationships I'm wondering why tf we spent so much time on things like the Hunt??? Like, Daemon/Laena, Rhaenyra/Harwin, The Strong family, Laeana/Vhagar bonding, etc, are what give meaning to the battles in the dance. Without development and storytelling, the battles are just random dragon fights If they were going to go this fast, they could've just given us the main story beats like in the book. Instead it's like they STARTED writing a story for the show and then got impatient and wanted to fast forward
The most confusing thing is that they basically only used the first 5 episodes to establish the beginning and basis of some character relations but by episode 6 we have skipped over all the development of those character relations. It was like starting a different show.
@@amysteriousviewer3772 Exactly… so what was the point of establishing those relationships? Those relationships aren’t relevant anymore because they skipped past them, there was no payoff
^^both of you guys are sooo right this episode felt so disappointing that it kind of put the entire show's merit into question. i really hope they course-correct or I'm just not gonna wanna watch it anymore
@@AlexisBii Especially Laena and Harwin both seemed like interesting characters but got barley any development at all so I didn’t really care about their deaths either. They are severely undercutting their dramatic potential for no real reason with this time skip. It seems like they just want to get to the Dance of the Dragons as fast as possible when the lead up is just as interesting and worth exploring.
I think it was a clever nod to Henry II’s “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest” offhand sanctioning of the murder of Thomas Becket that we get with Alicent and Larys.
I think the show has some screenwriting issues. Larys killing his own father and brother was out of nowhere without any understandable background. As a comparison, when Ramsy killed his father, we already knew how crazy he was, or when Tyrion killed his father, we saw his father belittling him in several seasons of the show.
Did you read the books. Larys is very unpredictable he is literally the little finger of this generation not to mentions the theroy od hin warging into rats.
I feel like Larys is definitely the main villain but still his actions IMO seem soo high risk low reward. Killing his father and brother and just telling it to the queen. Imagine if Alicent was like "damm bro I sure don't want a kin killer on my side".
I assume it’s implied that he would claim he did it on her orders, which probably wouldn’t be good for her reputation in the midst of a brewing struggle for the Iron Throne. Alicent gets Otto back to King’s Landing, Larys becomes lord of Harrenhal, it’s a win-win, the involved parties just need to stay quiet. Basically Larys is showing his commitment as Alicent’s ally, but also trapping her and binding her to him by implicating her in his schemes.
@@Floristini is just funny as hell that people were saying "oh look how functional the strong family is" And then this episode the younger just fucking kills no feelings attached his brother and father
@@Floristini It came off to me as a future threat to alicent. Like if I can kill my own family to please you I will. But I can also kill my own family for my own interest so give me what I want or you and your loved ones might receive the same threat. Putting fear in alicent from larys so she would be hesitant to not grant him his wishes.
@@luismadeira3101 I think that 10 years gap is at play here... I know Larys is showing off his scheming mentality in the previous episode as well (moon tea conspiration?), but during the time gap, he had to watch his brother consecutively impregneting the heir to the realm, knowing how it might eventually end up for him (and Lyonel, probably), watch his own father turning a blind eye to this, and he was like "man this family has rotted" - hm.. and now I'm thinking, maybe he liked the way it was going, until Lyonel made up his mind and said "ok enough of it, I'm leaving, and you, boy (God of War moment - also funny seeing how Harwin is the strongest guy in the kingdom, but to his father he is still "boy") are coming with me" - Larys realized that his family members are not that easily self-destructive, so he decided to push it a little
@@patryk_lewandowskiabc not to forget that he is the man in charge of the black cells and torture and the one enacting the killings of criminals. 10 years of doing that probably can end up fucking a man's mind even further than it was before
@Bionick Toa bruh i think daemon originally had the right idea.. more than 1 chick that is the move have a consort on the side an have em take turns having kids so 1 of em can heal and recover fully till u get your heir.. or if she’s decide she doesn’t want to anymore it’s ok you’ve got a surrogate in the wings and make it legitimate. These ladies are dying when they don’t need to be.
Laena refusing to let a man make a decision about her life, whether it was going to be a violent decision or not. She took agency over her death and chose to die how she wanted. I thought it was beautiful and tragic and damn Vhagar was amazing.
“The Pink Dread” was one of the better one-off goofs from the GOT universe. I know they played it all sad and “bullying” but it was a rock solid roast nonetheless. Rhaenyra stubbornly hobbling across the castle mere *moments* after childbirth was sort of darkly comedic in its own way, too.
Vhaegar looks awesome! Almost like an old, hairless and diseased crotchety scaly dog or something lol nothing like any of the other Dragons we've seen, so far! 👍
I really don't think that Alicent declined the marriage proposal out of spite entirely. She's proven to love her children and I don't think she wants to marry her daughter to a bastard and put her in danger because of that. I completely get that. She's a bit more petty now but I think it's because she wants to protect her kids and survive this.
@@brianslyproductions1410 no because jace is not a true heir. It would solve nothing. Aegon would still be a rival heir because everyone knows Jace is a bastard. So does he.
@@brianslyproductions1410 I didn't realize that Rhaenyra as queen could legitimatize her kids but I don't think folks would settle for that and would not end the conflict. I have not read the books so I don't know what happens but it seems like the marriage would not solve these issues.
@@Bunnybry the marriage would have solved trhe issues in the books alicent styarts a bunch of shit and royal fucks everyone and it could have been avoided if she just suckled up her pride cause in the books shes no maiden lmao
She made the correct political move. To try and legitimize a union that everybody knows is false only undercuts the family's position. Everyone is acting out making things hell, she's just trying to keep it together and pick up the pieces. I am very sympathetic towards what she is trying to accomplish.
Rheynera only offered her son to alicent in marriage because she knew at that point that the kingdom was already whispering about her children's parentage, and after harwins outburst she knew her time was shortened. So she went for a preemptive move thinking alicent might take it stupidly not realizing it's because rheynera feels her claim to the throne slipping away as she realizes more and more that kings landing won't follow her.
She offered peace even so. Allison wanted conflict. If I had to point at one to say, yeah, lassy, you shitter are getting us on the path of death and destruction, it would not be Rhaenyera. Allison is a typical downbeat woman who conforms to the toxicity of the patriarchal system she lives in because otherwise she would have to recognise that she let herself be fucked by the men in her life for far over a decade. This causes envy and hatred. Women like that are common enough even today. They cling to ridiculous double standards men push on them and defend those just so they feel a little like they have agency over their own lives. They are victims but they also are enablers.
I thought Daemon going through the fire was not too extreme. You can go through flame if you move quickly and in this case the flame had been stagnant so it may not have been that hot.
That's what I'm most disappointed in. We have this young girl fascinated by the oldest and biggest dragon who was once ridden by a powerful targaryen woman. A girl who manages to tame Daemon. And there's this opportunity to show how she tames this wild and powerful dragon and nothing she's gonna die now. Wtf?
@@Hombay17 I think there's a difference between going out into the wild to find a tame a legendary dragon and stealing a dragon after its already been tamed and is chilling at a funeral. That dragon wouldn't even be around for Aemond to steal were it not for Laena. (Context though: I have not read fire and blood and have not done any extensive research or looking into the history. Going off of how the show is presenting it and previews for next week.)
This show is a tokophobic nightmare. If I had a nickel for every horrifically violent and graphic on screen death by childbirth we see, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.
@@colebresnehen38 Maternal death in childbirth isn’t nearly as common as people assume it to be, even in the medieval period. Birthing a kid wasn’t exactly safe by any means, but it wasn’t the death sentence this series makes it out to be. Otherwise humans would have immediately gone extinct.
@@colebresnehen38 it’s not as common as the show makes it out to be. Even in the medieval period. Infant mortality was really goddamn high, but maternal mortality wasn’t.
I just have to say as a mom of 3 honestly by the third one you can walk through a palace like that. If it had not been against hospital regulations I could have done that after my third child's birth. (Baby was basically born in the waiting room, after baby popped out I was standing with her latched on and nursing. They put me in a wheel chair verses a wheeled bed because thats how its done. That part for me as a mom felt possible. After 3 its all a breeze.)
@erik johansen Facts 1 of many reasons why I don’t take single mom with ..2+ kids seriously Id prefer my partner be single & childless. They’ll try to tell you/convince you that it’ll snap back just like it was before it’ll still be tight ..But Nah i know better somebody lying to em.
It would be interesting if we learn that Larys was responsible for Grandmaester Melos death because he learns that he wasn’t properly treating Viserys when Maester Orwyle (the new grandmaester) had better suggestions. They could make it like a “needful things” type scenario where Alicent “wishes” something offhand to Larys, and he interprets the “wish” in horrific ways. Alicent would want Viserys to survive because her power as queen all comes from him until her son Aegon can come of age.
Dying from sepsis just with milk of the poppy must be a horrible and slow way to go. I think Laena choose a quicker way out and it was on her own terms.
I really liked how Daemon wouldn’t kill Leana in the same way Viscerus killed Emma. Both brothers were put in the same position to secure the first born boy of their line at the sacrifice of their lady wife. Daemon wouldn’t do it because of his devotion to those closest to him and his loyalty to family while Viscerus ultimately killed his true love (symbolized by him wearing both of their wedding bands and specifically kissing Emma’s) in order to sure his legacy and the line of succession. Just so amazing how they contrast and bounce these characters off each other thematically. P.S- RIP to the Terminator Breakbones he was a genuinely great character who became way more likable this episode but was betrayed by the person closest to him as is a thrones tradition at this point…
The kid smiling when the dragon kills the goat is the same as me smiling when I feed my pet snake a rat, I don’t think it’s really a sign that they’re becoming killers
True, but from what we know from previous Targaryens, it's a sign of madness as well. Maybe its the show's way of claiming these are Targaryens, for better and for worse.
I'm thinking (and hoping) they expand upon that ending scene where Alicent prevented Ser Cristen from killing himself in a flashback scene later on. It definitely seemed like it was left super vague and open ended on purpose so that they can weave in some character development for Alicent and maybe narrow that scene down to when Alicent decided she needed to oppose Rhaenyra and asked Ser Cristen to help her. Based on some of the previews of next episode, it seems like they're angling for Alicent to become a villain, how she seems to have everyone fooled, etc. They could use that flashback as her first step from the girl who wanted to believe her friend to the woman who now understands that if she doesn't oppose Rhaenyra, her children could be killed.
That was not super vague and open. That was skipping an explanation completely. Only Leanor even hinted that Cornball Cole's existence is a problem. It's ok if they are delaying addressing it, but just ok. It could be done better. HBO seems to have lost respect for this audience. They want us to do a lot of their work for them.
@@ajae... Just because they didn't show something you wanted to see, doesn't mean the show runners have lost respect for their audience. Essentially we have all the info needed to continue the story. We know that Alicent saved Cole, and that both have it out for and despise Rhaenyra. Alicent is the queen, and we have seen extreme violence between nobles this whole time. Given that Joffrey wasn't important other than being Leanor's lover, it is reasonable to think that the word of the queen would exonerate Criston. E.g. saying that Joffrey was a threat to Rhaenyra as we saw that he had pulled a dagger. If it's not a big deal that nobles of House Braken and Blackwood just casually kill each other, the death of a person of relative insignificant status would not be considered a criminal offense.
@@mejuliie Without realizing it what you want is for HBO to adhere to the basics of good storytelling, which they no longer seem to believe they must do. Instead they are relying on conjecture via social media to fill in the gaps, and people like you who get off on criticizing people for having standards to throw mud around and make discussions of their productions nonsensical. HBO is using you, Mejuju. You shouldn't stand for it.
@@Generalized615 Then why are you watching a 2 + hour video on the show, reading the comments, and trying to spit something clever? If you're going to go through all of that put some thought into your response.
I feel like Larys pinned Bees onto the clothes of his lads. It seemed to me like they were supposed to be spotted or one was supposed to be found so as to blame the fire on Lord Beesbury
That's interesting. Maybe an Icarus reference, they flew too close to the Targaryen sun, Rhaenyra and Daemon, respectively? Scorched by the fire of the dragon
@@Naithesther7085 ppl spew "but her daddy otto made!!!! Her!!! Do it!!!!" She was literal best friends with the kings only daughter guys, one truth spilling to her and she would never had to do it
Why did Larys Strong murder his father and brother? Did they treat him badly? Because of his condition? Did he have some grudge against his father and bodily gifted brother? Now he's lord of that pile of rocks, that's something you would murder your family for? What happened in that family which we didn't see? I don't feel like I have any idea what Larys' motivation might be and maybe that's part of his "mysterious" character, but for now it feels rather unfounded.
I think he was planning for a power play in the long run. He doesn't have to be treated badly perse but he was probably made to feel thst he will never be allowed to hold power because he is a cripple unless there is a power vacuum within his house. So he has created that vacuum.
There's a theme of second-born sons doing whatever they have to in order to achieve their goals and not be forgotten. Otto, Larys, Daemon, and now Aegon are pushed by society/desire to pursue power. Even Corlys briefly had a brother vs brother scene.
So, Harwin the commander of the City Watch and the son of the Hand of the king got kicked out of his place because he “laid” his hands on a Royal Guard while Criston escaped beating the future king and killing bf in front of everyone??? How
I get that for sake of quick character building larys's scheme came across like a marvel villain's. hopefully when the show slows down at the end of this season and season 2 his conspiracies and games and obfuscation of his true intentions will be a slower burn, like littlefinger and varys. also if they made it unambiguous who killed the strongs in the show maybe itll also confirm Larys's greenseeing abilities. I do wish that shows would be as brave as the sopranos and be comfortable with throwing in ambiguity that leaves no clear answer, it makes the world feel much more lifelike. theres a reason that the sopranos is still picked at and explored 15 years after the ending.
Haelena made a comment when Alicent was talking with Aemond. Something like "he will need to close one eye", impliying one of his eyes will be missing or useless. I think this really foreshadows that she has some dream magic. She saw the future perhaps.
I know you most likely won't see this Alt Shift but could Laris's Cicada sigil reference how long their spawn cycle is and how they wait for long periods before their invasive rise. I mean it almost has been 17 years since episode 1 so it was just a theory I cooked up while listening to this at work. Edit: Hiding underground until it's the right time to strike is kinda the motto I'm getting from the sigil.
There’s two thoughts for burning the Laenor. For one, it’s a point where someone went “hey neither Mushroom or the Maester were right they gave the sugarcoated history.” Otherwise like you said, Vhagar is a lot different from the young dragon we see at the beginning of the episode. It doesn’t just shoot on command, it sort of realizes the impact of Laenor’s request intelligently. It’s a moment of extreme loyalty, and one of the many times in the episode where a child is lost. Vhagar being asked to give up the young new fun spirit it decided to bond with and sadly accept it makes ya feel just plain awful.
I can't believe I missed Visceryes lost his entire arm. What's crazy is while watching I was trying look for his hand to see if he lost any more fingers, didn't see anything. Now I know why lol
The whole putting a dragon egg into the cradle of a child seems like a handicap. Its setting up the child with a small dragon that is vulnerable to someone who bonded an old dragon. I would especially for heirs try to match them up with a the biggest dragon i could find.
I would guess it's tradition, and much safer than trying to tame a huge dragon. There's already an inherent connection between the hatched dragon and the child.
I think bonding with an old dragon is very dangerous. I haven't read the books but watching videos, they say that plently of people try and fail and it enda with them getting burnt or eaten.. It's even shown in Ep06 how Aemond got too close and was almost burnt It's very risky but the reward can be very big, imagine bonding with Vhagar
Because we essentially did. They could have used the rest of season 1 to explore the 10 years and flesh out the characters and their relationships but I guess they wanted to get to the action.
@Immortal Science of Hauntology It would have been nice to see how Criston may have punished himself, what consequences he faced for the Joffrey thing, how Alicent hoped to raise her firstborn (to contrast with what she got), Rhaenyra's first experience with childbirth since the idea had always upset her, if Laenor ever tried to 'do his duty', just other background elements falling into place for the war, etc. There are so many interesting things that could have done with an hour of development.
@@niraisatsana Vhagar and Caraxes Kill each other later on, while being flown by Aemond and Daemon. It’s a lot more fun if you read the 300 pages of book which they are adapting to get these spoilers, rather than reading you tube comments. It also only takes about 3-4 hours to listen to on audiobook
I didn't expect so many subtle reactions, even the children had moments where as people they knew things. Everyone got the opportunity to give fair opinions. Only decline in character acting seems to be Alicent, but the younger actress really surprised me.
I don’t understand why Rhaenyra wouldn’t have kids with her husband if she knows her throne is in contention. That is so dumb it makes it hard to root for her.
It's cause she expects it not to matter, because they are her children regardless, so from her perspective, it shouldn't matter who the father is. The arguement is flawed, but then again, so is she.
@@jeffthampuran6054 lol yeah as Criston said she's pretty spoiled but then again he's an incel making kids beat each other because of his bitterness almost everyone in this story sucks it's what i like about fire and blood their entire fued was pointless and did nothing but damage the realm
@@andreimartinez1126 I think as a book, the 'most people being terrible' works better as it's written as a biased history book. But in the show, it's actually what happened, and that makes it more annoying when people are shitty
@@jeffthampuran6054 i like it that way it's pretty realistic imo everyone is prideful and it'll cost them even if they don't realize it when have we ever sucked up our pride to people we hated and never tried to get them back very few people don't try to justify the bad things they do targaryens are humans and humans are more spiteful than we care to admit
It's so interesting to me how often Viserys seems to notice the rats, but he never does anything about them. He is terminally complacent.
I mean... rats are kind of cute if you take them out of the context of disease and filth. I only had hamsters because my dad couldn't stand the tails as he would associate them with the dirty barn he had to clear out multiple times when he was a kid. What I'm trying to say is that contextualization is important. Maybe Viserys just doesn't ... dislike rats?
But terminally complacent is definitely a good way to describe his demeanor. If there is one character I have sympathy for, it's Viserys. He's trying really hard at being a good familyman but he has fallen too deep into the mediator-role to actually use his powers meaningfully because he doesn't want to divide the family. Maybe Viserys let too many rats into his house in an attempt to make everyone happy, even the rats.
I don't know why no one has just invested in some cats.
I think the rats symbolize a disjointed house. Family feuds and corruption while Viserys is in the midst of it watching it manifest right before his eyes. I Didn't like Laena's death, it was so vague and just meant to instigate Shock value. It's always bad when they go off script. Stick to the fucking book.
I mean the only thing you could really do about rats in that era is get a cat. Rats are very clever and hard to get rid of (especially with all those secret passages).
It's because the prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet. It's about 180 years until Ser Pounce will be born
I do wonder if Orwyle becoming Grand Maester is how King Viserys has been able to live for an extra 10 years. In the previous episode, he was suggesting new treatments for Viserys' illness while Mellos was dismissing his suggestion.
Makes a lot of sense too with Otto and Mellos seemingly being quite close. Probably not coincidence that Mellos also left with Otto…
In the books from what I know at one point Viserys fell very ill and so Orwyle suggested one course of treatment while Rhaenyra's own maester at Dragonstone was specially brought in and he suggested another method that ended up saving the Kings life (basically he took his hand or some of his fingers) but Alicent protested to having Rhaenyra's maester be listened to out of jealousy and spite. I think the show just added this as a way of showing how each maester has their own methods of healing.
That's what I was saying. Seems right to me. More than leeches
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw him lol
It is.
I can't believe I didn't notice his arm either, at this rate he's just going to be a torso by end of season
Bolan Bark, first of his name.
Degenerate memer has entered the chat*
Bruh wtf are you doing here
Lol cmon man how do you miss that? the first thing I do with each new episode is assess how much further this poor bastard has decomposed.
Tis but a scratch.
There were a few really sweet moments sprinkled throughout that tugged on my heart strings. When Laenor leaves the room so Harwin could "meet" baby Joffrey, when Viserys takes out Aemma's ring and kisses it fondly, and when Rhaenyra tells Laenor to "bring him" toward the end of the episode. Great story telling, in my humble opinion.
Right that look to good ole bone crusher really said it all. It acknowledged the relationship and all of its mess dynamics.
Viserys is such a teddy bear. He just wants people to have fun and eat cookies together but everyone only wants to fight all the time. Loved his reaction to the reignited Stepping stones conflict, he's so done with that place.
I love how much of a family man he is. It adds some peace to the chaotic drama of show. He just wants to be a grandpa and sit on his porch surrounded by his family, but he doesn't realize he's a king and has to be a bit more ruthless.
"That blasted place", my man is just so done with this shit.
Everyone in Westeros: "No one is as accursed as the kin slayer."
Larry Bonkfoot: "Lol, brother and dad go whoosh in nasty castle"
I wish the show made more of a point that’s a huge taboo like the books does
Wait? Did the father was killed too? I thought the the show implies its only the brother thats killed
@@alahsiaboi8909 yeah, Lyonel Strong is dead too. Apparently Larys likes Talking Heads' "Burning Down The House" song too much
@@tenkenroo I feel like that was established pretty well in GOT, i guess the assumption would be that most HOT D viewers will have seen GOT... not that that excuses it.
Now that i think about it did Viserys not say something about kin slaying when referring to potentially executing Daemon?
Larys: I DID
I was happily excited to see how they made Vhagar this epic, grizzled, aircraft carrier of a beast dragon! Also, Helaena Targaryen has prophetic vision/dreams? Alicent tells Aemond, as he’s telling her why he went deep into the bowels of the Dragon Pit, “you will have a dragon one day.” The camera quickly switches to Helaena immediately saying “he’ll have to close an eye.” Spooky 👻
I was wondering the same thing. Maybe they're trying to make her a dreamer or something? She's rather off.
Also the talk about the bug losing its legs.. hinting at something else about one of her brothers’ futures
@@christophercramp17 I thought that she might have a bit of the Targaryen craziness
@@christophercramp17 shes just a very sweet child kind of like tommen
P
I look forward to Alt Shift X videos just about as much as the actual show lol
I need a good explanation for why Larys killed his own father and brother. I quite liked him before but this is just totally uncalled for
@@kegdoty they could have had a couple episodes exploring larys's relationship with his family. You're never given the impression that he dislikes them for any reason, you'd expect there to be at least some hesitation over ordering the deaths of your own father and brother. Obviously he's a schemer but that's a pretty massive leap
@@cm9241 maybe it's meant to emphasis just how much of a cold blooded operator he is. Sociopath type of behavior
In fact, last episode they seemed to be at least amicable at the wedding, when they were talking and they didnt seem to ostracized him because of his disability or anything so yeah it comes up as a little bit of a huge leap
Facts
I think that part of Criston’s pure rage is the fact that he sees Harwin basically living the life he walked away from, and it’s going fairly well for Harwin for quite some time. Criston has so much self-loathing that he’s diverted and focused on Rhaenyra. He’s angry because of his own choices and it’s eating him alive. That’s why Alicent is a kindred soul.
i feel like criston cole in a way represents the nice guy phenomena. he couldnt handle rejection, and resents her for it 10 years later. also alicent represents the nice girl phenomena, she feels she is better than rhaenyra because she stuck to the rules and played by the sexist rules men made for them.
@@eliseph i also get a feel that both criston and alicent have this sense of entitlement of being rewarded for following rules, being honorable, being participants in this rigid society that doesn’t respect them as a lowborn/woman and puts them in restrictive roles
And they get frustrated and lash out at others who seem to be rewarded more for doing less like rhae and harwin when things don’t go their way
No. Don't just search for meaning in everything. Just deal with it that writing is bad.
I mean both Criston and Alicent were screwed over by Rhaenyra, Alicent tried to be kind to Rhaenyra and she believed her lie about losing her virginity even if it weakened her family and Criston broke his oath over nothing because Rhaenyra only saw him as a fucktoy, hell, the entire reason why he was able to be a kingsguard was because of his looks which must have been a haunting realization for him lol
@@zazazaaazzzaaz The character writing seems fine. I say the. Bigger issues are the unnecessary violence and deaths that don't really contribute much and adds more questions. Such as how did Criston get away with murder in a royal wedding.
I am upset that we were robbed of both Laenor/Rhaenyra/Harwin and Daemon/Laena. They all have changed so much and showing R coming to terms with being pregnant and giving birth the first time seems important because she has so much trauma related to it. Why L+R didn’t do «their duty» after all. Daemon sorting out his issues. Dealing with the aftermath with Cole etc. Just one more episode with the young cast could have been good.
It seems to be implied that after Joffrey Lonmouth died, Laenor became a self indulgent wastrel drinking away his pain.
Well, Laenor didn't do his duty in the book either.
@@seantolson6223 I wish literally anything was implied about how Cole was left totally unpunished for that. Makes zero sense.
@@Neil-qg9cw He's clearly very close to Allicent now and she's the only one that knows / cares about what he did - and he's now the combat mentor to the sons and their protector
I don't think there's ever been a time-jump in a series where everything has been laid out on a plate for us so expertly.
An aspect of art is leaving some things to our imagination - we know what changes R has went through and what she's done in the 10 years since we last saw her
Viserys refusing that Strong steps back as the Hand is actually pretty smart. Him stepping back right after his son gets openly accused of being the father of Rhaenyras children would just confirm the accusations to the public. So Viserys refusing might just be for good „publicity“
Lionel Strong was the only person on Viserys' side. I don't think Viserys thought any further than that
But then Strong anda son being torch confirmed the rumors
@@boghag he just always had good, sound advice
Jaha tk muze maloom hai ki Targerian aag se nhu jalte hai
But idhar to kuch alag hi dikha rahe hai
Hame dekha hai game of thrones me Dyanerys Targerian kaise jalati hai khal drogo ke dushmano ko aur khud nahi jalti aag me
Aur jab Dragon ke eggs se jb dragon nikalte hai tabh bhi wo raat bhar aag me hi rehti hai hamari Denarius 😊😊😊
Pr idhar to Targerian apna ilaj tk aag se nhi kr paa rahe hai😭😭😭
Kya show bana diya yar boring
Isse accha to wo dark moon pe focus jarte aur show banate
Agree! And I know Viserys' actions may seem like it's just him loving his daughter or "turning a blind eye" but I don't believe it's just for the sake of being a decent guy who doesn't like war, I feel like he truly knows behind all these decisions that the fate of the world (the white walker prophecy) depends on a Targaryen being on the throne and at this point only house Targaryen could tear it's self down.
Vhagar being a big sad doggo when killing her mum was gut wrenching. I really enjoyed Laena taking agency over her own death.
I mean he's the only 1 left from the original trio
Her mum
@@ANJIN-p4q she* Vaghar is a female
Vaghar is a female
@@mariannestrgzr9374 theres an idea of dragons being fluent in their sex.. it's in Fire and Blood, written by septon Barth I think
This episode really made me feel like Otto did Alicent a terrible disservice by putting fear for her life and the lives of her children into her. Honestly, honestly, just about everyone seems cool with Jacaerys ascending following Rhaenyra except Alicent and Criston
dude was power hungry and passed it onto his kid
@@TheSSBBfan666 And she gonna pass to Aegon
How could you possibly know that? No one but the Targaryens would be allowed to voice an opinion on the matter on pain of death and we’ve heard from no one outside this circle on how they feel about it.
Until E4, you would have said everyone was cool with Rhaenyra becoming Queen because no one opposed it, but when people think no one’s listening, they make plays about how much they want Aegon.
@@TheSSBBfan666 He was not power hungry on this issue, he was absolutely realistic.
@@Longshanks1690 yes, and pushing his daughter into the position so his house gains more power through the royal family and also instilling fear and paranoia that her friend would kill her and her kids just to get a fancy chair totally was for the realm, right?
Otto's a snake deluded into believing he is right. Yes there are fuck ups on both sides, But House Hightower clearly wants more power and will play the game to get it.
The moment with viserys crying and kissing aemmas ring after learning that rhaenyra had left and the strongs were dead was very sad. He's a good man but a bad king 😔
Is he a bad king for keeping peace during 25 year long reign, without having to murder any of the vultures in his court?
Sounds like a good king to me
@@mejdlocraftci Bad for letting this dynastic tempest grow in his court. He sees it, he's not dumb.
@@olorin4317 he could have just take up Rhanearya offer of marrying the two kids to avoid a civil war instead of letting Alicent selfishly reject the proposal to put her son Aegon as king.
Yeah, he is a good man but would make a bad king.
@@mejdlocraftci The reign of King Viserys I was considered the apex of Targaryen power, with the most dragons ever.
@@yingkouzen very true he’s the king and that’s his children too.
Your restraint when it comes to spoilers is what keeps me tuning into these. My trust in other channels that break down this show has been severed because they can’t resist giving things away as a way of constantly reminding their viewers that they, in fact, have read the books.
100% true, I got spoiled by the other channels to.... That's why I only watch alt shift x's vids.
Spoilers: the dragons dance. They all start boogieing, and everyone just gets along and has a good time
I think once we start focusing on the children more, we will return to more stable pacing. This episode was really just breakneck speed setup.
Yeah I would have loved one more episode here though
It baffles me why they can't get 12 episodes at least per season. Hasn't the IP earned more than 10? People know it's money. How much does it really cost to add 2 or 3 more episodes
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy more episodes would’ve helped, but damn they could’ve cut out some of the earlier stuff if they were going to be pressed for time
That's the kind of thing I told myself when I saw season 7, that they increased the pace to set everything up to slow down for the last season... I hope the trend stops here, I don't want to be hurt again.
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy there's a thousand things that go into planning and making just one episode. It not necessarily always about how much money is made.
Larys is one mustache twirl away from being a complete cartoon villain
Big agree
I don’t think he’s too over the top. Taking initiative to kill dangerous actors, and to put yourself up in the line of succession by using the disadvantaged as your catspaw isn’t too over the top for me.
@@reecev2087 His motivations aren't over the top, but the way the show is showing him executing them is very over the top.
Huge agree. There was nothing wrong with leaving some parts of the story ambiguous - it created mystery and unease
In the original GoT if two highborn lords got burned like that, we wouldn’t have any idea who did it. This show just isn’t the same. Dragons dragons dragons dragons
Harwins genes were too STRONG
it's a recurrent theme in westeros that the seeds are strong compared to the egg.
@@nicomilord then there’s Jon snow…..😂
@@bluethunder9102 hahaha stark blood seems to have a strong genetics.
@@SiimKoger It doesn't work like that yk
@@nicomilord then Tully genes are something else because except arya all the Starks look like Cat
I think Alicent rebuffed the betrothal offer because she believes that Rhaenyra's kids will one day be outed as bastards, and her daughter and any children she had would be in danger. Also, Alicent believes that Aegon is the true heir anyway and cannot stomach the farce.
That is a good explanation, but at least I would have needed that to be explained on screen. Also, she kind of misses the point. Targaryens have power because of the dragons, the parentage is irrelevant as long as Rhaenyras and her kids have dragons. Alicent should know that marrying with the heir would be the best protection for her kids.
@@SorbusAucubaria I agree that this wasn't a good move on Alicent's part. Her resentment is clouding her judgement and preventing her from seeing the big picture. Your point is excellent, I wish she would take your advice!
The people of Westeros view bastards as treacherous, no one wants to marry their highborn child to a bastard. That’s the lowest of the low to these people. For Alicent Rhanera suggesting her daughter a true born Targaryen Princess marry her bastard son is a kick in the face.
Exactly
Yeah, she is making a big mistake and starting a war by declining Rhaenyra marriage proposal.
The show is writing her and Ser Criston Cole like a pair of emotionally unstable antagonists 😅
Larys is like the genie that maliciously complies with what is requested
It’s just like The Omen “Damien” series of songs by DMX..
when he finds out he’s deep..$h!t
🗣After what I just gave you, with you actin' like that
when you asked for that favor)
Yo, I ain't ask you for shit
(Oh yes you did, when you really needed something, and you allowed me to give
You sold me ur soul when you didn’t say No”
Now give me what you owe…👀 the parallels are crazy
rip the Darkman X
@Balmug that imagery is sending me🤣
Pro tip for anyone making a spy network: As cool as they might look, don't give everyone special pins with your logo on them 🪲
HILARIOUSLY PUT, but 100% accurate as well. This guy is supposed to be this series’ genius level manipulator, and leaves his insignia on them. Thank you no one else is mentioning this.
Tbf thats probably visual cue for audience even if its already obvious.
@@abcddef2112 last week people were praising his "subtlety" and I was like uhhhhhhh
My first thought after watching that scene, "What's the point In removing their tongues so they can't speak, if you're just going to pin your insignia on them"
@@Walkriot most casual viewer sadly are not, but it is still show don't tell.
We finally find out in this episode that Daemon can actually get it in, I really thought the was impotent
he likes blonde Targaryens to finish it haha
I feel like he needs that silver hair
Well in the book he did get Missaria pregnant but she loss the child due to a miscarriage while travelling at sea on her way back to Essos because the King forced Daemon to send her away and return to his Bronze Bitch. I don't rightly know why they changed this in the show to be honest as if she has some great aversion to having kids.
@@spearshake4771 ohhhhhh
So did I. It’s the writing on the show.
Great episode but sucks ser Harwin died so quick. Was a cool character. Also kinda felt like larys’ murder of his brother and father came out of nowhere.
I really wanted Alicent to have a moment like "you did this for me? You're a second son owed nothing, killing your father and older brother gives you everything. Yet you claim this is for me, and want me to further reward you for this??". Come on Alicent, you've been in court your whole life, been queen for over a decade, you should know when you're having one pulled over on you.
Yeah, in the wedding I thought Larys and Harwin were quite close with eachother.
The fire at Harrenhal really needed to stay ambiguous
@@kieffer4615 guess so much happened offscreen in the 10yrs that they'll never bring up to us, we just have to assume something happened or there's a reason, and that's really poor
@@babyray5643 in one comment you say not enough is shown and then in another you say something should be ambiguous. Stupid
It was quite sad that the two people who had the best of intentions for those around them ended up dying by fire : Harwin and Laena. I actually liked that Laena was able to end her life on her own terms as beautifully tragic as it was, Vhagar was definitely reluctant to do so. I wish we saw more of her But from what we were able to see she was definitely portrayed like a Westeros tomboy in that she wanted to go out like a dragon rider. I also liked that we as an audience don’t hear what decision daemon made.. we just see his devastation looking upon her death
I mean...seeing as they don't cut her open, he said no
Am I the only one who saw him shake his head no? I very much could have imagined it.
@Daemon Targaryen ok, Daemon. But she was your wife, ffs
With the 'obvious secret' coming out Harwin was always on borrowed time
Jaha tk muze maloom hai ki Targerian aag se nhu jalte hai
But idhar to kuch alag hi dikha rahe hai
Hame dekha hai game of thrones me Dyanerys Targerian kaise jalati hai khal drogo ke dushmano ko aur khud nahi jalti aag me
Aur jab Dragon ke eggs se jb dragon nikalte hai tabh bhi wo raat bhar aag me hi rehti hai hamari Denarius 😊😊😊
Pr idhar to Targerian apna ilaj tk aag se nhi kr paa rahe hai😭😭😭
Kya show bana diya yar boring
Isse accha to wo dark moon pe focus jarte aur show banate
Viserys missing an arm was the first thing I noticed as he walked in to see his newborn grandchild lol. I was like "Is that sleeve fully floppy" he looked SO old
I noticed when he got up from his chair, when Alicent was taking care of him.
Yup...1st thing I noticed. Floppy floppy sleeve lol idk how they missed it
Same!
I really liked the scenes with the Strong characters. Especially when Lyonel scolds Harwin and then when Harwin says goodbye to his children which Jace takes notice
Some very strong boys
I love how GRRM could come up with the most badass houses name (lannister , Baratheon,targaryen...etc) , but sometimes he just go lazy and went "yep House StRoNg it is"
@@alahsiaboi8909 I think it is because generally houses with links to the first men have surnames that are adjectives, stark for example.
@@alahsiaboi8909 House Strong is still better than House Mudd
@@alahsiaboi8909 in Scandinavia (the North) Strong means Stark/Sterk which also ties in to House Stark.
Pretty disappointed we didn’t see more from Harwin. To be called the strongest person in the world and yet not see him in a real fight kind of sucks.
Rushed af.
Most great warriors in George's story dont get their glorious end but instead die miserable empty deaths. Kinda on point for the series at this point
Really needed 2 seasons of this whole timeline. S3 start of the Dance. Harwin, Laena, many other relationships rushed and forgotten about
@@babyray5643 dumbest comment I've ever seen. They are hitting all the events from the books. Adding more episodes and you just have dumb filler
Season 1 maybe could have ended with the wedding, and the skip could have been season 2. This felt like a standalone tv special kind of.
I didn't think Laena's death was dark at all - the other two options she had were far too long and far too painful.
Making your dragon kill you and your unborn child is pretty dark.
@@WoodBlock707 Better than having your husband order his medics to cut you open (killing you in the process) while your infant child probably also doesn't survive (we saw what happened with Aemma and Baelon). At least Laena, unlike Aemma, gets to have some agency in begging Vhagar to kill her.
They have drugs in this world, could easily give her milk of the poppy to ease the pain.
@@YourBlackLocal Her death was exceedingly dumb. Another example of poor writing on this show that we can only hope the get wise to and stop.
@@night.josephine I think she did it so daemon doesn't have to feel guilty or thinks he's the reason why she died
Criston and Larys have amazing genes to not age a day in 10 years!
Indeed so stupid they should have kept original actresses
@@thehoopman88 whine about it
@@thehoopman88 cope
Yeah that was goofy. They should have changed all of them, for consistency
I don’t know what it is about Alt Shift X’s GoT/HotD content, but this channel is ruling the breakdown realm. Maybe it’s the chill demeanor, cheeky sense of humor and charismatic voice? Hard to say, but I really look forward to these every week.
Have you watched the Bloodraven video? That was the one that made me a super fan. It's all chill, very clever and insightful. And then out of nowhere he drops in a funny that literally makes you spit your drink out. So bloody good!
I thought Laena's death was a beautiful scene. I've read it and still was surprised.. I think one last ride would have been cool and not her falling off but just not coming back and Vhagar comes back alone and Daemon just knows.
That would have been a better death. This one requires way to much grasping of the idiot ball.
She wanted to be put out of her misery. Wouldn’t make sense to go on a ride.
@@rayeya3138 that's how it was in the books. To be fair, she delivers the child in the books unlike in the show where the babe is still inside her.
Think it’s a really good parallel to the scene with Aemma’s birthing scene. Damoen is given the same choice that viserys was but Lena was smart enough to read the room and went out on her own terms.
@@muhammadeisa1459 I was wondering if they show us a tiny skeleton in Laena's skeleton when we could see it.
In my personal opinion Larys is the sole reason why this family feud reached the heights that it has
Not the sole reason, but certainly the biggest push. The rifts already existed, he just blew them wide open.
This is just the beginning.
hey give Otto some credit, he's one kinslaing hype boi.
If he could have a dragon the cannibal would be it.
He may not be the sole reason but he's certainly the kerosene that helped fuel this clusterfuck.
Alicent is a moron too
I honestly think we could have had a filler episode exploring the 10 year gap. It would’ve been nice to see all the dysfunctional relationships before everything hit the fan. Again.
Go watch naruto
I agree! I really got whiplash from the episode, it felt like having to adapt to entirely new characters and character relationships while simultaneously mourning the loss of them when they died. I wish we’d lingered more on Laena or on Harwin and Rhaenyra’s relationship before the deaths, that way there’d be way more of an impact :(
@@Sophie-vq1xw The time jump just wasn’t well executed or set up in my opinion. They skipped over way too much and just expected the viewers to be on board immediately. Some of the recasts are also just confusing: Why do Criston and Larys look exactly the same with not even a strand of grey hair or wrinkles while Rhae and Allicent apparently aged so much that they look like completely different people. It’s just weird.
There's always time for a beach or baseball episode!
@@amysteriousviewer3772 because rhae and allicent were like 17 bruh
Cicadas take forever to be born - years can pass before they enter the world. Perhaps Larys chose the cicada as a hint that he has boundless patience, that he willing to play the long game.
“Honeyed Locusts”, then?
That's a really great point. Although the time skips mean we don't get to spend as much time staying with the characters I think they've done very well in making it feel natural and letting your imagination fill in the gaps. And the larger time scale means we get to see decades-long grudges and plans play out.
"The gods had yet to make a man who lacked the patience for absolute power."
I’m not seeing the parents turn their kids against each other, I’m seeing Alicent and Criston turning those kids against Rhaenyra children.
slipping off vhagar would be so traumatizing for vhagar lol imagine her feeling responsible for letting her rider fall off
Also, Vhagar would've just caught her.
dragon mental health awareness month
"the main reason why viserys wants rhaenyra to inherit the throne is because rhaenyra is all viserys has left of his wife aemma arryn. and for viserys, it's like making rhaenyra heir is an act of love to his wife aemma"
"love is the bane of honor, the death of duty. what is honor compared to a woman's love?"
:(
Imagine if Allicent had just agreed to the wedding there would be no conflict. Allicen't daughter would be queen, her children would be safe from Rhynera purging them because now they wouldn't be seen as a threat. There would be no dance, and Allicent and Rhynera would have lived happily ever after and Alicent could marry someone who isn't a gross melting old man after the king finally kicked it.
Which strengthens my take even more that its not about the fear of having her children killed. Its about her still being bitter and mad about her daddy and not being told the whole truth by Rhaenyra.
Rhaenyra is really killing Alicent with kindness and yet Alicent still conspires against her. Wnat is she so upset about? That Rhaenyra lied 10 years ago? My friends have lied to me, but I’ve never plotted the downfall of their family.
Why are people so dumb. Its clear to her Rhaenyra's kids are bastards and obvious to the world. She just needs to wait for Viserys to die and then go full blast on their illegitimacy. Why would she give up Aegon's claim?
@@PerfectDark0 The lie made her look bad and partially is the reason her dad got fired.
I think she refused because she KNOWS Rhanyras kids are bastards. It's insulting Alicent to ask her to give up her daughter and become complicit in Rhanyras lies about her children. If you think about it, Rhanyras is not only trying to "make nice" with Alicent. Alicent knows the kids are bastards, and she cares very much that other people know too. Rhanyra is trying to protect herself and her children by using Alicent and Halena as her shield
I was so amazed by the writing because even though we barely saw Harwin and Laena, I am heartbroken over their deaths. I'm especially sad for Rhaenyra who obviously seemed to have developed this deep relationship with Harwin.
It was also super interesting seeing how paranoid Alicent is about Rhaenyra taking the throne and how she constantly puts that pressure on her kids.
You're in the minority on that. I couldn't give a crap about Laena, and I wanted to care about the Strongs but I didn't. They either should've slowed the pace and fleshed out their characters more or, God forbid, cut out a lot of the earlier filler to make room for their characterization.
In rewatching the first piece of the episode, it’s incredibly obvious that Viserys is fully missing an arm. When he holds baby Joffrey, his sleeve is just dangling there! Totally missed that the first time around. Also, kind of sweet that Laenor would want to name the baby after his late love, Joffrey.
Shocked it took so long for him to float that name since there were already 2 boys lol
@@cupofcait Well the firstborn at the very least obviously needed a Valyrian name.
From what I read of the books it seems like Dragons themselves are fireproof and thats usually why when they fight each other its with Tooth and Claw. That being said I think that blast of flame by Vhagar basically started dissipating as Daemon flew through it as he was not directly in the line of the flames at the moment the blast of fire occured
I would also imagine that the dragons have a very fine control of their fire. I'm sure they can control the size and intensity. Especially because that seems like a rehearsed move.
Probably one of the first tricks they learn for showing off
What is supposed to endear the audience to Alicent now?
Making Rhaenyra walk up the stairs moments after birth.
Encouraging her son who doesn't want to be king to be king knowing it would mean a war.
Refusing to combine the competing bloodlines knowing it would mean peace.
Complaining to Larys that no one is on her side when her side is going to war over succession because she's angry that her dad isn't hand anymore.
Our sympathies felt way more balanced in the first half of the season
Yeah. They are making her too much evil. I was hoping for a more balanced view on characters and that would make Team Green more popular
And what is to endear Rhaenyra to the audience?
She’s pretentious to everyone, even her husband, undermining her own rule as a result of selfishness and a want to have kids with Hardin Strong despite it becoming obvious to just about everyone. She’s not only screwing her own claim, but her kids’ claims as well, which essentially are a powder keg ready to throw the realm into chaos. She doesn’t seem the least bit worried until it’s literally about to affect her little happy affair. She’s an entitled brat, and is quite clearly shown to be impulsive in her decision making, especially near the end of this episode when she leaves kings landing, allowing for the rumors to get even worse about her and further rooting her claim that she so very much desires. And with the further episodes to come she won’t get much better, believe that. Just because she doesn’t want to finish with Laenor doesn’t mean she shouldn’t fulfill her duty to the realm. But of course, she has to go about it like a prick. It forces Alicent into a position where she cannot do anything other than pressure Rhaenyra to stop the self destructive behavior and shut up for her own good. It just takes a little bit of thinking and you can poke holes all over the other side of this battle. Alicent is only as awful as Rhaenyra is forcing her to be. Added along with the betrayal, it becomes more or less understandable, despite still being mean spirited.
@Will C. nah otto fucked her mind up and manipulated her to the point she’s starting to turn into him
the way shes tryna force/manipulate aegon to be king reminded me of otto manipulating her to be queen
holy fuck i jus realized, otto started all this bullshit by having alicent be queen. till this day, marrying alicent was viserys dumbest mistake and that’s saying a lot cuz he’s so dumb
I can’t believe she had the nerve to talk about Viserys being blind to Rhaenyra but she doesn’t even blink or a say a word about what she caught her son doing. 🤢
I don't think it's malevolent, she's really just trying to hold the house together. Viserys is weak, his control has always been weak.
Her son is spoiled and useless. Rhaenyra refuses to fulfill her duty to the realm and is in fact making a mockery of it. While cruel the politically correct move would be to make sure those children with Harwin did not survive or were otherwise exiled at birth.
Without her corraling the whole thing would fall apart in seconds.
Alicent is the person who reminds the teacher that you were supposed to have a quiz
She seems to be the best ruler out of all of them so Im on her side. She is tactful and respectful, but also become very determined. Her kids though... Yea thats gonna be tough
I like that Laena got to see Vhagar one more time and somewhat got to go out on her own terms. Part of me wishes they had kept her death closer to the books where Daemon carries her back to bed. Would have loved to have seen that one last moment of tenderness between the two of them since we saw so little of their relationship already.
I’d have loved a moment of tenderness where just before she does it they get to say goodbye and then he steps aside because it’s her choice
@@manyagaver1946 omg crying just thinking about that lol. I loved reading about Laena even though she was a fairly minor character. I wish we got to see more of her in the show. Like the friendship she had with Rhaenyra. I appreciate they tried portray her adventurous, dragon-rider spirit for the limited amount of screen time she got. Still wish we could have seen a bit more of her with Vhagar.
He could carry her to the saddle instead, like "you said you wanted to die a dragonriders death, you're currently not able to walk, I'll do this for you and then a goodbye kiss and dragon go whoosh"
What I do not understand is that Criston killed the king's consort """best friend""" simmingly randomly (on the public eye at least) during the royal wedding and got away without any consequence; while Breakbones (who is the son of the hand of the king, commander of the city-watch so I believe socially way higher than any kingsguard) beat up Criston because he and the heirs to the throne were personally insulted by him and gets banished...
So first off no, kingsguard is higher. They answer to the king alone and attacking one is like attacking the king. Also what he did was essentially justify, publicly, that there's some truth to the accusations. Cole played him like a Georgia fiddle
The reason it makes no sense though is because it's an unnecessary book change. In the book Criston kills Joffrey and fucks up Harwin in one event, a tourney melee. It happens so many years after the wedding, but it's a separate event altogether. The tourney provides a plausible excuse for Cole to fuck up both the allies of Rhaenyra and ser Laenor, so it's completely legal what he does in the book
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy I don't know, ruining the royal wedding seems more serious that a fist fight after an insult, even if it could be interpreted as an admission of guilt by Breakbones
I assumed Allicent had protected him from punishment
Double standards smh
The kings guard are the cops. It’s a fantasy show, but you still can’t expect them to hold one of their own accountable
My dude Larys just said “nope” and deleted his entire family
The fact that Viserys lives another 15 years after this is the most insane part.
😂😂😂
He really really wants to play with his lego
Mah man Viserys wants to finish his model and be left in peace.
Isn’t the next time jump only like 7 years or something?
@@Death_Korps_Officer see, what he doesn’t realize when he was worried about not being sung about. Is people are most definitely remembering the King who spent most of his time building a massive model set.
Like imagine if president Harrison had a massive Lego set, people would talk about him a bit more
I had the same exact idea for Laena's death. Instead of the shock value of burning herself, flying one last time and dying on dragonback would be much more poetic and beautiful imo.
The fact that it is shocking does not make it less poetic. Surely you can see the poetry in a person accepting their death and choosing to die as they will, even if you would prefer something else. Reducing it to nothing more than "shock value" seems unnecessary to me.
One scene I didn't hear mentioned in this stream is when Alicent makes a show of caring for Viserys' comfort, but once no one is around to see it, she abandons him.
At first I had this glimmer of hope that maybe she does still cares for him in a way, or is at least used to doing this for him... But the SECOND that Lyonel and the servants leave, you realize it's all theater.
That hit me hard.
As Alicent bolted into the hallway I could only think "what happened to that sweet, innocent girl? Look at what this city/court/system/life did to this young woman who used to truly care."
They turned a Sansa into a Cersei, and it saddens me.
I didn’t get this feeling. For me, Alicent didn’t help him the second time because they switched to talking about a subject she much more deeply cared about, and wanted to make her side/emotions more pronounced.
I didn’t really notice the amount of ppl around each time tho, so next time I watch this scene I’ll keep an eye out and see if it makes a difference.
She seemed to not help him because of the topic that upset her...
Did she ever genuinely care about king though? She just played the role of caring girl to become a queen and to have power for her family (following father's tips).
That's why I don't see her as just noble woman who despise Rhaenyra's affairs. It feels like "I suffer through marriage without love, so others must suffer without cheating too".
I agree with you. 😔
I don't think they were trying to show that Daemon is fireproof when he flew thru the fire. He flew thru it really fast, so I think they were just showing them having fun, without really thinking whether or not the fire, at that speed, would burn him or not
Yeah, it really didn’t look like that fire was hot/dense/long-lasting enough to do any real burn damage. Just reminded me of a fire breather trick that looks cool and maybe dangerous, but ultimately harmless.
I think the point of the dragon pit handler was to show that he was speaking in Valaryian to teach. We are seeing the scene from Jace's POV, seen in the fact that the subtitles translate the beginning of the conversation between Jace and the handler, then as the handler speaks words in Valaryian that Jace doesn't understand we get a translator. I thought it was a really cool detail
I think skipping the character relationships is going to be a fatal error. The character relationships really color the tone and meaning of the battles in the Dance of Dragons and it seems like they're skipping all of that in favor of just getting to the battles and fire and action parts.
Given how fast we're skimming over these key relationships I'm wondering why tf we spent so much time on things like the Hunt??? Like, Daemon/Laena, Rhaenyra/Harwin, The Strong family, Laeana/Vhagar bonding, etc, are what give meaning to the battles in the dance. Without development and storytelling, the battles are just random dragon fights
If they were going to go this fast, they could've just given us the main story beats like in the book. Instead it's like they STARTED writing a story for the show and then got impatient and wanted to fast forward
The most confusing thing is that they basically only used the first 5 episodes to establish the beginning and basis of some character relations but by episode 6 we have skipped over all the development of those character relations. It was like starting a different show.
@@amysteriousviewer3772 Exactly… so what was the point of establishing those relationships?
Those relationships aren’t relevant anymore because they skipped past them, there was no payoff
^^both of you guys are sooo right
this episode felt so disappointing that it kind of put the entire show's merit into question. i really hope they course-correct or I'm just not gonna wanna watch it anymore
@@sloana7368 it felt like a first episode, all previous episode should have been flash back or exposition in later episodes
@@AlexisBii Especially Laena and Harwin both seemed like interesting characters but got barley any development at all so I didn’t really care about their deaths either. They are severely undercutting their dramatic potential for no real reason with this time skip. It seems like they just want to get to the Dance of the Dragons as fast as possible when the lead up is just as interesting and worth exploring.
I love how George really wanted to name one of his dragons after Vermithrax Pejorative, but had to change them up to like Vermax and Verminthor
I think it was a clever nod to Henry II’s “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest” offhand sanctioning of the murder of Thomas Becket that we get with Alicent and Larys.
I really like that theory
I got those vibes too. All she said is her father would have her interests, and Larys sprung into action.
That was the first thing I thought of too
I loved that Rhaenyra on the Council knew that blackwood and bracken will fight themseles because she remember this situation in storms end
I think the show has some screenwriting issues. Larys killing his own father and brother was out of nowhere without any understandable background. As a comparison, when Ramsy killed his father, we already knew how crazy he was, or when Tyrion killed his father, we saw his father belittling him in several seasons of the show.
Maybe he’s a psychopath that doesn’t have empathy and does things that benefit him
Huh? He supports Allicent and wants to see her children in power whilst Harwin is with Raenyra. It’s as clear as it could be.
this ep felt quite rushed unfortunately
That is literally Larys’ character in the books. No one knows why he does what he does. He works against everyone, friend or foe.
Did you read the books. Larys is very unpredictable he is literally the little finger of this generation not to mentions the theroy od hin warging into rats.
I feel like Larys is definitely the main villain but still his actions IMO seem soo high risk low reward.
Killing his father and brother and just telling it to the queen. Imagine if Alicent was like "damm bro I sure don't want a kin killer on my side".
I assume it’s implied that he would claim he did it on her orders, which probably wouldn’t be good for her reputation in the midst of a brewing struggle for the Iron Throne. Alicent gets Otto back to King’s Landing, Larys becomes lord of Harrenhal, it’s a win-win, the involved parties just need to stay quiet. Basically Larys is showing his commitment as Alicent’s ally, but also trapping her and binding her to him by implicating her in his schemes.
@@Floristini is just funny as hell that people were saying "oh look how functional the strong family is" And then this episode the younger just fucking kills no feelings attached his brother and father
@@Floristini It came off to me as a future threat to alicent. Like if I can kill my own family to please you I will. But I can also kill my own family for my own interest so give me what I want or you and your loved ones might receive the same threat. Putting fear in alicent from larys so she would be hesitant to not grant him his wishes.
@@luismadeira3101 I think that 10 years gap is at play here... I know Larys is showing off his scheming mentality in the previous episode as well (moon tea conspiration?), but during the time gap, he had to watch his brother consecutively impregneting the heir to the realm, knowing how it might eventually end up for him (and Lyonel, probably), watch his own father turning a blind eye to this, and he was like "man this family has rotted" - hm.. and now I'm thinking, maybe he liked the way it was going, until Lyonel made up his mind and said "ok enough of it, I'm leaving, and you, boy (God of War moment - also funny seeing how Harwin is the strongest guy in the kingdom, but to his father he is still "boy") are coming with me" - Larys realized that his family members are not that easily self-destructive, so he decided to push it a little
@@patryk_lewandowskiabc not to forget that he is the man in charge of the black cells and torture and the one enacting the killings of criminals. 10 years of doing that probably can end up fucking a man's mind even further than it was before
Watching house of the dragon every week like "childbirth takes another bad bitch from us" when will it end
@Bionick Toa isnt it more likely opposite? Go on a wild dragon ride and that breech baby will turn head side down again XD
@Bionick Toa bruh i think daemon originally had the right idea.. more than 1 chick that is the move have a consort on the side an have em take turns having kids so 1 of em can heal and recover fully till u get your heir.. or if she’s decide she doesn’t want to anymore it’s ok you’ve got a surrogate in the wings and make it legitimate. These ladies are dying when they don’t need to be.
I can literally listen you for hours and would never get bored YOU KNOW SO MUCH and your voice is so soothing I love it
Don't we all fall asleep to the sultry tones of his post-episode chats? Haha
Laena refusing to let a man make a decision about her life, whether it was going to be a violent decision or not. She took agency over her death and chose to die how she wanted. I thought it was beautiful and tragic and damn Vhagar was amazing.
“The Pink Dread” was one of the better one-off goofs from the GOT universe. I know they played it all sad and “bullying” but it was a rock solid roast nonetheless. Rhaenyra stubbornly hobbling across the castle mere *moments* after childbirth was sort of darkly comedic in its own way, too.
They just made aemon into a schoolshooter.
@@joaojeffersoncavalcantiwan812 that seems like Aemond in the books
@@joaojeffersoncavalcantiwan812| RIGHT! Like keep playin with him and see what happens, lol
honestly if my brothers pranked me like that I would say well played, good roast.
Vhaegar looks awesome! Almost like an old, hairless and diseased crotchety scaly dog or something lol nothing like any of the other Dragons we've seen, so far! 👍
he looks so damn cool
@@shadysorkin9214 she
@@shadysorkin9214 SHE
@@postpunk6947 Dragons don’t have genders.
@@Prodigi50 Vhagar laid eggs therefore it's a FEMALE
I really don't think that Alicent declined the marriage proposal out of spite entirely. She's proven to love her children and I don't think she wants to marry her daughter to a bastard and put her in danger because of that. I completely get that. She's a bit more petty now but I think it's because she wants to protect her kids and survive this.
Her kids are in far more danger as they are now. Legitimate claims against them threatening their lives, would be settled by marriage
@@brianslyproductions1410 no because jace is not a true heir. It would solve nothing. Aegon would still be a rival heir because everyone knows Jace is a bastard. So does he.
@@brianslyproductions1410 I didn't realize that Rhaenyra as queen could legitimatize her kids but I don't think folks would settle for that and would not end the conflict. I have not read the books so I don't know what happens but it seems like the marriage would not solve these issues.
@@Bunnybry the marriage would have solved trhe issues in the books alicent styarts a bunch of shit and royal fucks everyone and it could have been avoided if she just suckled up her pride cause in the books shes no maiden lmao
She made the correct political move. To try and legitimize a union that everybody knows is false only undercuts the family's position.
Everyone is acting out making things hell, she's just trying to keep it together and pick up the pieces. I am very sympathetic towards what she is trying to accomplish.
Rheynera only offered her son to alicent in marriage because she knew at that point that the kingdom was already whispering about her children's parentage, and after harwins outburst she knew her time was shortened. So she went for a preemptive move thinking alicent might take it stupidly not realizing it's because rheynera feels her claim to the throne slipping away as she realizes more and more that kings landing won't follow her.
Yep, also using her kids as bargaining chips, when she herself hated being treated like that. Damn I dislike her so much
She offered peace even so. Allison wanted conflict. If I had to point at one to say, yeah, lassy, you shitter are getting us on the path of death and destruction, it would not be Rhaenyera. Allison is a typical downbeat woman who conforms to the toxicity of the patriarchal system she lives in because otherwise she would have to recognise that she let herself be fucked by the men in her life for far over a decade. This causes envy and hatred. Women like that are common enough even today. They cling to ridiculous double standards men push on them and defend those just so they feel a little like they have agency over their own lives. They are victims but they also are enablers.
I thought Daemon going through the fire was not too extreme. You can go through flame if you move quickly and in this case the flame had been stagnant so it may not have been that hot.
I would have loved to see how Leana claimed granny Vhagar.
That's what I'm most disappointed in. We have this young girl fascinated by the oldest and biggest dragon who was once ridden by a powerful targaryen woman. A girl who manages to tame Daemon. And there's this opportunity to show how she tames this wild and powerful dragon and nothing she's gonna die now. Wtf?
Well the other claim is more important and they don't want to show the same thing twice. Like the joust and the wedding.
@@chandrawagner4061 I agree 100 %. Bit of a weird choice, it's interesting stuff that would maybe take only one more episode to show...
I mean, why? Would be repetetive to have two scenes of different characters claiming the same dragon, and makes Laena seem more important than she is
@@Hombay17 I think there's a difference between going out into the wild to find a tame a legendary dragon and stealing a dragon after its already been tamed and is chilling at a funeral. That dragon wouldn't even be around for Aemond to steal were it not for Laena. (Context though: I have not read fire and blood and have not done any extensive research or looking into the history. Going off of how the show is presenting it and previews for next week.)
This show is a tokophobic nightmare. If I had a nickel for every horrifically violent and graphic on screen death by childbirth we see, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.
If I had a nickel for every time it’s happened in real life though I’d have a shit ton of nickels
You are a guy, right?
@@rinao5425 to other people in history I mean lmao. Many documented deaths from pregnancies or childbirths
@@colebresnehen38 Maternal death in childbirth isn’t nearly as common as people assume it to be, even in the medieval period. Birthing a kid wasn’t exactly safe by any means, but it wasn’t the death sentence this series makes it out to be. Otherwise humans would have immediately gone extinct.
@@colebresnehen38 it’s not as common as the show makes it out to be. Even in the medieval period. Infant mortality was really goddamn high, but maternal mortality wasn’t.
I just have to say as a mom of 3 honestly by the third one you can walk through a palace like that. If it had not been against hospital regulations I could have done that after my third child's birth. (Baby was basically born in the waiting room, after baby popped out I was standing with her latched on and nursing. They put me in a wheel chair verses a wheeled bed because thats how its done. That part for me as a mom felt possible. After 3 its all a breeze.)
Sounds like it was more painful to watch that nightmare of a 20 minute scene than it was for you to have your baby
@erik johansen Facts 1 of many reasons why I don’t take single mom with ..2+ kids seriously
Id prefer my partner be single & childless.
They’ll try to tell you/convince you that it’ll snap back just like it was before it’ll still be tight ..But Nah i know better somebody lying to em.
It would be interesting if we learn that Larys was responsible for Grandmaester Melos death because he learns that he wasn’t properly treating Viserys when Maester Orwyle (the new grandmaester) had better suggestions. They could make it like a “needful things” type scenario where Alicent “wishes” something offhand to Larys, and he interprets the “wish” in horrific ways. Alicent would want Viserys to survive because her power as queen all comes from him until her son Aegon can come of age.
Dying from sepsis just with milk of the poppy must be a horrible and slow way to go. I think Laena choose a quicker way out and it was on her own terms.
I'm now only describing Daemon in this episode as "being in his Grillcore phase"
I really liked how Daemon wouldn’t kill Leana in the same way Viscerus killed Emma. Both brothers were put in the same position to secure the first born boy of their line at the sacrifice of their lady wife. Daemon wouldn’t do it because of his devotion to those closest to him and his loyalty to family while Viscerus ultimately killed his true love (symbolized by him wearing both of their wedding bands and specifically kissing Emma’s) in order to sure his legacy and the line of succession. Just so amazing how they contrast and bounce these characters off each other thematically.
P.S- RIP to the Terminator Breakbones he was a genuinely great character who became way more likable this episode but was betrayed by the person closest to him as is a thrones tradition at this point…
Great analysis!!
Viserys did not "kill her gladly" at all
He was going to do it. That’s why she got her own dragon to burn her alive
I don’t know if “gladly” is the term…you might wanna rewatch that sequence. It’s pretty brutal and gut-wrenching.
I would say it hurt Viserys but he believes he has to do it because he wanted a male heir.
The kid smiling when the dragon kills the goat is the same as me smiling when I feed my pet snake a rat, I don’t think it’s really a sign that they’re becoming killers
True, but from what we know from previous Targaryens, it's a sign of madness as well. Maybe its the show's way of claiming these are Targaryens, for better and for worse.
This is not normal you are a psychopath. /s
You’re clearly becoming a bloodthirsty murderer
sounds like something a serial killer would say.
I felt the same! People are too far removed from nature nowadays. Not to mention I think he was smiling because he got him to obey a command
I love how Vehgar looks like a Komodo Dragon, I think its so cool how they made her look more like an old dinosaur haha very excellent design 😁
44:35 "I was born in the dragon pits, you merely adopted it." - Dragon Pit Guy 2022
Daemon got married and turned into Viserys. Obsessed with Valyrian history and ignoring his daughter.
I'm thinking (and hoping) they expand upon that ending scene where Alicent prevented Ser Cristen from killing himself in a flashback scene later on. It definitely seemed like it was left super vague and open ended on purpose so that they can weave in some character development for Alicent and maybe narrow that scene down to when Alicent decided she needed to oppose Rhaenyra and asked Ser Cristen to help her. Based on some of the previews of next episode, it seems like they're angling for Alicent to become a villain, how she seems to have everyone fooled, etc. They could use that flashback as her first step from the girl who wanted to believe her friend to the woman who now understands that if she doesn't oppose Rhaenyra, her children could be killed.
That was not super vague and open. That was skipping an explanation completely. Only Leanor even hinted that Cornball Cole's existence is a problem. It's ok if they are delaying addressing it, but just ok. It could be done better. HBO seems to have lost respect for this audience. They want us to do a lot of their work for them.
@@ajae... Just because they didn't show something you wanted to see, doesn't mean the show runners have lost respect for their audience.
Essentially we have all the info needed to continue the story. We know that Alicent saved Cole, and that both have it out for and despise Rhaenyra.
Alicent is the queen, and we have seen extreme violence between nobles this whole time. Given that Joffrey wasn't important other than being Leanor's lover, it is reasonable to think that the word of the queen would exonerate Criston. E.g. saying that Joffrey was a threat to Rhaenyra as we saw that he had pulled a dagger.
If it's not a big deal that nobles of House Braken and Blackwood just casually kill each other, the death of a person of relative insignificant status would not be considered a criminal offense.
@@mejuliie Without realizing it what you want is for HBO to adhere to the basics of good storytelling, which they no longer seem to believe they must do. Instead they are relying on conjecture via social media to fill in the gaps, and people like you who get off on criticizing people for having standards to throw mud around and make discussions of their productions nonsensical. HBO is using you, Mejuju. You shouldn't stand for it.
@@ajae... Its not that deep
@@Generalized615 Then why are you watching a 2 + hour video on the show, reading the comments, and trying to spit something clever? If you're going to go through all of that put some thought into your response.
I feel like Larys pinned Bees onto the clothes of his lads. It seemed to me like they were supposed to be spotted or one was supposed to be found so as to blame the fire on Lord Beesbury
That's what I was thinking!
What does he know?!?!
Oh so those are bees? I thought it's his own insignia.
@@icecell No, the Strong sigil is just a tricolour
i think its distinctive mark so Larys men in harenhall and riverlands know they are working for their boss and should not bother them.
I like that the show slides the rug from under us with laena, they wanted us to be like "oooo how will daemon handle this" and then SHE took agency.
Harwin ended up being a bit of a Boba Fett, completely badass character, but we never got to see his real abilities
Both Laena and Harwinn died by fire is so symbolic.
That's interesting. Maybe an Icarus reference, they flew too close to the Targaryen sun, Rhaenyra and Daemon, respectively? Scorched by the fire of the dragon
I find it interesting the Alicent looks down or reynerra but she surrounding herself with oath breakers and kin slayers
That is somewhat ironic actually. Didn’t think about that.
She's such a Hypocrite cause she even seduced the king just to get her way to the throne
@@Naithesther7085 ppl spew "but her daddy otto made!!!! Her!!! Do it!!!!"
She was literal best friends with the kings only daughter guys, one truth spilling to her and she would never had to do it
Why did Larys Strong murder his father and brother? Did they treat him badly? Because of his condition? Did he have some grudge against his father and bodily gifted brother? Now he's lord of that pile of rocks, that's something you would murder your family for? What happened in that family which we didn't see? I don't feel like I have any idea what Larys' motivation might be and maybe that's part of his "mysterious" character, but for now it feels rather unfounded.
harrenhall is still one of the biggest strongholds in westeros. and now he is allicents strongest ally
@@TheEnecca Yes, you're absolutely right. But man is that a nihilistic approach to life if that's enough for you to murder your father and brother.
I think he was planning for a power play in the long run. He doesn't have to be treated badly perse but he was probably made to feel thst he will never be allowed to hold power because he is a cripple unless there is a power vacuum within his house. So he has created that vacuum.
There's a theme of second-born sons doing whatever they have to in order to achieve their goals and not be forgotten. Otto, Larys, Daemon, and now Aegon are pushed by society/desire to pursue power. Even Corlys briefly had a brother vs brother scene.
These Q&As are so great cause there are allways people out there noticing things nobody else notices
So, Harwin the commander of the City Watch and the son of the Hand of the king got kicked out of his place because he “laid” his hands on a Royal Guard while Criston escaped beating the future king and killing bf in front of everyone???
How
I get that for sake of quick character building larys's scheme came across like a marvel villain's. hopefully when the show slows down at the end of this season and season 2 his conspiracies and games and obfuscation of his true intentions will be a slower burn, like littlefinger and varys. also if they made it unambiguous who killed the strongs in the show maybe itll also confirm Larys's greenseeing abilities. I do wish that shows would be as brave as the sopranos and be comfortable with throwing in ambiguity that leaves no clear answer, it makes the world feel much more lifelike. theres a reason that the sopranos is still picked at and explored 15 years after the ending.
Harwin was trying to break down his father's door to save him.
Haelena made a comment when Alicent was talking with Aemond. Something like "he will need to close one eye", impliying one of his eyes will be missing or useless. I think this really foreshadows that she has some dream magic. She saw the future perhaps.
larys strong has the potential of a monster-natured character with architect demeanor thrown into the mix. i so far enjoy him a lot
I know you most likely won't see this Alt Shift but could Laris's Cicada sigil reference how long their spawn cycle is and how they wait for long periods before their invasive rise. I mean it almost has been 17 years since episode 1 so it was just a theory I cooked up while listening to this at work. Edit: Hiding underground until it's the right time to strike is kinda the motto I'm getting from the sigil.
There’s two thoughts for burning the Laenor. For one, it’s a point where someone went “hey neither Mushroom or the Maester were right they gave the sugarcoated history.”
Otherwise like you said, Vhagar is a lot different from the young dragon we see at the beginning of the episode. It doesn’t just shoot on command, it sort of realizes the impact of Laenor’s request intelligently. It’s a moment of extreme loyalty, and one of the many times in the episode where a child is lost. Vhagar being asked to give up the young new fun spirit it decided to bond with and sadly accept it makes ya feel just plain awful.
I can't believe I missed Visceryes lost his entire arm. What's crazy is while watching I was trying look for his hand to see if he lost any more fingers, didn't see anything. Now I know why lol
Me either lol🤣🤣
I didn't notice lol
The whole putting a dragon egg into the cradle of a child seems like a handicap. Its setting up the child with a small dragon that is vulnerable to someone who bonded an old dragon. I would especially for heirs try to match them up with a the biggest dragon i could find.
I would guess it's tradition, and much safer than trying to tame a huge dragon. There's already an inherent connection between the hatched dragon and the child.
I think bonding with an old dragon is very dangerous. I haven't read the books but watching videos, they say that plently of people try and fail and it enda with them getting burnt or eaten..
It's even shown in Ep06 how Aemond got too close and was almost burnt
It's very risky but the reward can be very big, imagine bonding with Vhagar
Ever heard of the girl who flew away with Balaerion and came back with fire worms crawling inside her body and her skin crackling like cooked meat
@@Darkstar_Dayne I thought that was cause she went to Southoros
@@jeffthampuran6054 she likely went to Valyria
It's kinda ironic how the training armors looks even better and more real Than the king's guard armor
This felt like we skipped a few episodes and started another season. Just a nitpick but one I felt almost immediately.
Because we essentially did. They could have used the rest of season 1 to explore the 10 years and flesh out the characters and their relationships but I guess they wanted to get to the action.
@Immortal Science of Hauntology It would have been nice to see how Criston may have punished himself, what consequences he faced for the Joffrey thing, how Alicent hoped to raise her firstborn (to contrast with what she got), Rhaenyra's first experience with childbirth since the idea had always upset her, if Laenor ever tried to 'do his duty', just other background elements falling into place for the war, etc. There are so many interesting things that could have done with an hour of development.
@@fruitygarlic3601 go watch a soap opera if you like boring shi*. This is a show about targaryens and dragons not what cole did for his Salvation.
Seeing Caraxes and Vaghar fly together was crazy!
Book readers know... 😉😏
i didn’t read the books, can you elaborate please?
@@niraisatsana let's just say.... It's not the last time we will see them fly together.
@@niraisatsana No spoilers in the chat. You have to wait…
Seeing the size difference between the two dragons... wow I can't believe [SPOILER] caraxes handled vaghar that well
@@niraisatsana Vhagar and Caraxes Kill each other later on, while being flown by Aemond and Daemon. It’s a lot more fun if you read the 300 pages of book which they are adapting to get these spoilers, rather than reading you tube comments. It also only takes about 3-4 hours to listen to on audiobook
I didn't expect so many subtle reactions, even the children had moments where as people they knew things. Everyone got the opportunity to give fair opinions. Only decline in character acting seems to be Alicent, but the younger actress really surprised me.
I don’t understand why Rhaenyra wouldn’t have kids with her husband if she knows her throne is in contention. That is so dumb it makes it hard to root for her.
It's cause she expects it not to matter, because they are her children regardless, so from her perspective, it shouldn't matter who the father is. The arguement is flawed, but then again, so is she.
@@jeffthampuran6054 lol yeah as Criston said she's pretty spoiled but then again he's an incel making kids beat each other because of his bitterness almost everyone in this story sucks it's what i like about fire and blood their entire fued was pointless and did nothing but damage the realm
@@andreimartinez1126 I think as a book, the 'most people being terrible' works better as it's written as a biased history book. But in the show, it's actually what happened, and that makes it more annoying when people are shitty
Because her husband is GAY. Laenor does not want to fuck Rhaenyra. It’s as simple as that.
@@jeffthampuran6054 i like it that way it's pretty realistic imo everyone is prideful and it'll cost them even if they don't realize it when have we ever sucked up our pride to people we hated and never tried to get them back very few people don't try to justify the bad things they do targaryens are humans and humans are more spiteful than we care to admit
Watching this now makes me realyze that sooo many spoilers are being said but only told as small insignificant hints, love it
Small detail: Cole is not wearing his cloak as he sees it as "stained"