Re: spice color -- spice is described as brown in Book 5! But it's also described as blue in Book 4 and indigo in Book 3. Different chemical forms maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Or maybe Herbert forgot & didn’t care? 😂 knowing his writing it wouldn’t surprise me that he doesn’t care what colour things are. Even something as important as spice
Blue? Could that be the spice essence or water of life kinda thing? The pre-spice stuff? I can not remember it being anything but brown/orange ^^ I only remember indigo as the description of the eyes of the fremen. (book chapter 8 "blue spice-tinted eyes" :) Edit: yeah it seems that the "spice melange" which basically is the syrip/essence, right, is indigo colored ^^ that is.... weird... but well the spice is in sand so that blue would not last long
The flying machines in the Dune 2021 movies are more practical than flying machines in the books. Matter of fact not much of the mechanics work in the Dune books.
Alt Shift X is so humble and respectful. He literally says “I can’t comment on those books because I haven’t read them” Then someone chimes in and says “you shouldn’t be a hater and comment on something if you haven’t read it” And Alt Shift X just goes “Yeah I think that’s good advice” as if he didn’t literally say that 20 seconds earlier. Absolute respect.
"as if he didn’t literally say that 20 seconds earlier" - Not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but that donation message showed up a couple minutes before he responded. He clearly doesn't read the donation messages instantly as they show up. He finishes his point and goes down the list eventually.
@@doryfishie2 You’re correct. However when he read the live chat, he had already just finished saying he shouldn’t comment. So when he read it he could have said “Yeah I just said that” but he didn’t, he acknowledged it respectfully. And I think that’s nice.
I love that in Dune, the most influential sci-fi saga, there are no AI and aliens, which are two of the sort of hallmarks of sci-fi in general and space operas specifically. Frank Herbert was really more interested in the exploration of literal human potential. A while there's faster-than-light travel, prescience, genetic memory, lasguns, cloning and all of these things, Dune is a deeply humanist story. I really wish more people read Dune.
@@muttipi re the sandworms, we don't actually know. Leto II says that they were seeded in Dune, but we don't know by whom and from where. They could still be modified from worms that came from old Terra, for all we know.
No AI, but AI’s presence is felt all throughout-The nature of the world shown is a direct and indirect result of the rejection of Thinking Machines. The Orange Catholic Bible, need I say more?
As for shields and Fremen: I really liked the detail in the book, that Paul with his shield-fighting training looked like arrogantly toying with Jamis because his shield-penetrating "killing blows" were slow, so it looked like he held back.
For the question of breaking imperial conditioning: The baron wants to keep it secret, because it's a powerful weapon. Maybe lots of other people have broken it as well, but also kept it secret. Maybe the conditioning isn't actually all that perfect, but everyone wants to believe it is. Also, I'm so glad you've gotten into Dune. I can wait to see what you have to say about the last two books. I honestly really love them.
This is actually quite good. I always wondered how they thought it was so mindblowing to use loved ones as leverage I mean its not that genius. I could imagine a society of aristocrats being to proud to admit it though.
Another possibility is that Wanda was a Bene Gesserit who thought Yueh some training, which was my head canon I think. I also kinda accepted that Yueh was, just as everyone in the Atreides inner circle, a very unusual an gifted individual, who might just very well be the exception of the rule.
I don't know but I remember reading somewhere that one can break conditioning by making a ghola that has memories of their first life. They would think they were conditioned, act like they were conditioned under normal conditions, but if a real pressure, like kidnapping a loved one is used, the nonexistent conditioning won't be any help obviously and they would break. Because they themselves aren't conditioned. Not sure about the source though. Because before reading this, I thought Heyt was the first ghola with awaken memories.
AS for the spice, there's a chance its color depends on the situations its in. Its described as brown when its in the spice tank, and coming from the tank. At the same time, whenever water is present, like the spice bloom, or the water of life, or the fremen's eyes, its blue.
Fun fact about God emperor Dune! It technically has been adapted in a show, it was the Grimm adventures of Billy and Mandy when in a bottle episode there is a vision of a future where Mandy is Leto 2 in a giant worm body and controls cinnamon throughout the universe. Billy of course is her Duncan Idaho and has killed him thousands of times for her amusement.
Also during “My Fair Mandy” there’s a beauty pageant and one of the tests for it is the Gom Jabbar. they also quote the Litany at some point in another episode
"Atreides" from the Greek family "the House of Atreus". Atreides is a plural form. This is why they have an olive complexion: They're originally Mediterranean.
@@soumen_pradhan I'm not saying they're Mediterranean because they're olive-complected. I'm saying they're originally Mediterranean because they come from the House of Atreus, which was Mediterranean. They're olive-complected in the books because they were originally Mediterranean.
I think, after the tens of thousands of years since Earth of or times, humanity mingled and melded ultimately all becoming shades of olive, the only shades Herbert uses to describe people except those who isolated their planets and used eugenics which modified their appearance.
The thing I like in the book that was also in the movie is the scene in the tent. The way Herbert describes Paul’s prescient vision is so much more intense and described in a way that is almost impossible to capture in film.
The part at 1:05:00 where your talking about in the book that The Reverand Mother shed a tear for Jessica, it is important to remember that Gaius permitted that tear to fall, as the Bene Geseret can fully control their whole body. It was a calculated show of emotions. Sorry if I miss-spelled the names
Was a lot of fun to hear you and Quinn talk Dune! I'd love to see you do a deep dive into God Emperor of Dune since it's even less likely to be filmed.
I agree... The bright red nappi Baron is awful. But... The playful manipulative monster that the baron in the books is, is, so amazing. I adore him and Piter's back and forth.
I always thought that the imprinting Yueh received from his Bene Gesserit wife (since Bene Gesserit women are known to do that) interfered with the Imperial conditioning and the Harkonnens exploited that. So the feelings Yueh had for his wife are much stronger and deeper than typical spousal love which is why torturing his wife worked. I'm not sure about this though.
I'm loving your analysis of Dune here. After you finish the last two books, I hope you do a video with all the spoilers about your thoughts on the whole series. Even if you don't, I've loved all the content you've done so far.
At 1:21:00 I thought the question was whack. “Magical negro” “exotic foreign woman” like give me a break dude and I’m a liberal too but Herbert gave us a story that’s central theme is questioning leadership and directly critiquing the typical “white savior” stories we see everywhere else. He went out of his way to show the Atreides (despite being the morally “good” faction) manipulating the fremen and using them for their own gain and then having Paul despise the jihad and the religion formed around himself despite the fact he helped manipulate the fremen masses into forming it! And what does this person want? Would they have preferred all the fremen be white? No cause then they’d be first in line to complain about diversity…again whack question.
@@davidrossi5096 Also don't forget Frank Herbert by his own word admitted this is Lawrence of Arabia in space which kind of is a real "white saviour" story. Lawrence doesn't save them but he does lead them well against the Ottomans, using tactics the Beduin Muslims wouldn't know without his help. But I absolutely do not think Lawrence was a "white saviour" Edit: Also Lawrence is obviously still celebrated as a hero in Iraq and Damascus, and any Iraqi will tell you they owe a lot to the actions of muh white saviour
Love these Dune discussions. I just read 12 of them and though I've taken a break to read other things for a bit, I still cannot get enough. I will be reading them again, and it's the first book series that has rivaled LotRs for me (though they are loved for different reasons and aren't really in competition). Note: From what I gather raw spice is brownish red from impurities, but pure concentrated "spice essence" is definitely blue.
Yooo I'm so excited for all this Dune content, I just finally watched the movie with no knowledge whatsoever about Dune and man was I blown away with the spirituality of the entire story AS the cherry on top. Since the visuals and performances are a 4 course meal of deliciousness
Would be amazing if you did a few videos on the 40K history and even the major comparisons to Dune. I play and have read 40k and didn't realise how much of it comes from Dune. Watching the movie constantly made me think of the 40k universe. Love the content!
I listened to the whole series (up till Chapterhouse) in audiobook. It made it easier to follow rather than reading, and Herbert's style is quite poetic, full of repetition. It sounds amazing.
That's not how the Baron broke Yueh. Pietr is the one to figure it out. Pietr through manipulation and the torture of his wife convinces Yueh that he would be saving lives by killing the Baron. The only way to assassinate him though is by sacrificing Duke Leto like he does. Pietr just believes that he killed Yueh before the attempt
I want to thank you for representing Dune in its truth. I have loved Dune since I was small. I found old paperbacks of the books. They're like quicksand to read at times, but Herbert truly created a complete universe. He wrote it so that the reader could see it as he did. Thank you!
I think that Paul's choice to join the Fremen isn't actually a change. In the book Paul sees that if he lets Jamis kill him in the duel that the Jihad will happen even without him, so he decides to kill Jamis and try to take the reigns on his visions to steer them towards a slightly less brutal path. So in the books Paul still makes a conscious choice to lead his Jihad rather than letting it happen without him. Of course, placing the decision after the duel is a pretty major shift, but I don't think it actually was a major enough change to care about.
I think the film gets the appearance of Spice perfectly, it's exactly how I've seen it in the books. Look at it in view of the desert as "the ocean without water", and how Spice is utilized in the perception of time. When raw, Spice can appear like sand; but when you imbibe or purify it, it's the blue of the ocean, just as your perception of time through Spice can reveal the true nature of the desert and its dunes of sand rolling and shifting like waves in the ocean.
The thing with the Imperial Conditioning being "broken" at least with my own interpretation at least. I was under the impression that the Condition was actually never really broken, cause everything Yueh did was still in service to house atreides. All that he did was to keep the house alive, cause it's very clear Leto was doomed, and to save the house he had to be sacrificed. I don't know, there's a lot going on, but in the end my take away was that the conditioning was never actually broken, and that's why the Baron got fucked in the end.
Ornithopter is clearly taken from ornithology which is the study of birds. So they definitely should have looked like birds. The ones in the movie should have been called “insectithopters”
Can't wait until Alt Shift X starts covering The Elder Scrolls, the depth of lore in the combine universe is staggering and deserves the "ASX Treatment" imo. Unless you already have- in which case please point me that way
The whole thing with the dinner and the like it was more of Leto being considerate of how Jessica does not like to have the bull head with Arreides blood around while eating but that may have been me
I prefer the idea of traveling through space like it says in the books…i feel like that was the point of spice and the navigators becoming mutated…because the speed and precognitive abilities your mind would need to think and process information is so intense that you must consume spice and undergone physiological changes to endure it.
When I was reading Dune to my kids I warned them about the "slow start". That it didn't really "get going" until they got to Arrakis. I read the first chapter and my kids were like "So, a life threatening event is a slow start? I'm IN!"
SkyNet is from terminator; the computer all knowing was called Omnius. The books are well worth the read; and with input from folks who aren’t truly engaged w the lore and complimentary players-just feels as though something is missing.
1:47:35 I love that point about Quins video is as much of an adaptation as you’re gonna want. That is actually a great compliment. I feel that way watching his videos on the dune series. Especially with all the art and imagery he incorporates.
... Ashurbanipal, also spelled Assurbanipal, or Asurbanipal, (flourished 7th century bc), last of the great kings of Assyria (reigned 668 to 627 bc), who assembled in Nineveh the first systematically organized library in the ancient Middle East. The Royal Library of Ashurbanipal, is a collection of more than 30,000 clay tablets and fragments containing texts of all kinds from the 7th century BC, including texts in various languages. Among its holdings was the famous Epic of Gilgamesh. Baked clay tablets about the Annunaki... space travelers who apparently created humans and were living on Earth during The Great Flood. Frank Herbert would have been familiar with Zecharia Sitchin's books...
Spoilers: Regarding the ending being abrupt, I don't really think you can do it any better way as the story is clearly divided into three parts. The first is the death of Paul Atreides, Second is the birth of Usul and Paul Mua'Dib and the third is finale, the rise of the inevitable jihad and the acceptance of being the Kwisatz Haderach . The first movie ends when Paul joins the fremen and becomes Mua'Dib. I am worried about the 2 later parts because they are so complex especially with Pauls sister and I hope the rising conflict with Stilgar is portrayed right.
When I read dune, I assumed the earth animals on Arrakis and any other planets were simply put there by humans during the 10,000 years of space travel prior to the jihad. There are mentions of fish on caladan, among other animals, but never actually any *alien* life in dune, other then the sand worms. Arrakis, caladan, Geidi prime, all probably where completely uninhabitable, dead rocks, without even a breathable atmosphere, that advanced humans terraformed. Maybe more advanced humans before the guild never found alien life, or more likely it couldn’t co-exist in the same environment as us, so recreated earth ecosystem were simply put in place. Now the mystery of where the sand worms come into this, is oddest thing. There the only distinctly non-earth lifeform, and they can only survive in an environment humans can barely survive. Which leads me to believe they could be of a truly alien origin.
I would like to point out that Yuehs wife is Bene Gesserit and over time could have broken the doctors conditioning already, or could have placed a deeper conditioning for loyalty to her. He may have come pre-broken. It never mentions or hints at this in the books, but come on, it's the BG
Someone mentioned Legend of the Galactic Heroes. If you like political and philosophical space opera epics, watch it. The original version more so than the new remake. Or I guess you can read it, since English translation have been finally released some years ago. It is a Japanese novel from 80s that was adapted into OVA anime in a period of 10 years. Incredible characters and world. A lot of well made war room action too. A lot more realistic and grounded than what some people might expect when they hear Japan an anime. It is a long story, but totally worth it! A Prusian-like galactic empire goes to war with a democratic alliance. In terms of characters and world it is more like A Song of Ice and Fire, though philosophy wise it deals with political ideas better than Dune, really.
*Dune drinking game:* Take half a shot every time dune is said. Take a shot eventime he mentions not wanting to spoil something. 😏🤣 Thanks for the video. Love your content.
This is a weird experience for me. I read the Dune books in the 1960's when I was in high school. Didn't much like the later books. Never heard of a son writing more books. Watched the 1986 movie, not so good, kept looking for more though. Just found out about these movies (Part 1 is on reserve at the library already). And I might have to read the books again to get into context.
On the thing about the fourth book and on, I am considering persuing audiobooks to finally get through them, because to be honest, I have never gotten through "Children of Dune" in text form. I have watched the miniseries, so I understand the majority of the storyline. So I encorage anyone who has problems with reading dense text, audiobook.
The Spice gas the Navigators live in is described in book 2 as orange. I haven't come across the passage in person, but I also heard the powder is brown but can glow blue. When I get onto the audiobooks for further books I will see what they say.
Love the entire stream, but this has bugged me -- assuming the lady Jessica was "technically a slave" based on the usage of the word "bound" to the Duke is a leap. "Bound" is a word we use colloquially regarding marriage, it's not unusual to say bound by marriage, or use the word in other phrases such as "ties that bind," etc. Lady Jessica and the Duke are significantly NOT married, but she IS bound to him while HE remains free to wed officially, for political reasons. It is still, however, a partnership so she is the one who is monogamously tied to him in the romantic and sexual sense, and perhaps as a subject in his Dukedom. But being "bound" does not indicate slavery, necessarily, any more than modern folks bound by marriage vows are in any way considered to be slaves to each other. It's flowery language to indicate the nature of the partnership. Not necessarily anything more.
22:08 On the Baron this comes into mind as part of the philosophy with Dune: Sankofa is a principle derived from the Akan people of Ghana that one should remember the past to make positive progress in the future. Upon which the Baron 110% neurotically, and thru suppression, with repression always rejects in doing but then again the mannerism reveals: The Hopi refer to this endemic state of imbalance, falsity and depravity as Koyaanisqatsi. They define it as a condition in which a thing is so irrational, corrupt and unsustainable that it eventually implodes in upon itself without external forces acting upon it. It's a rather sophisticated account of a decaying civilisation, and must be taken seriously. This is because when good people witness or experience injustice, degeneracy, delinquency and crime, etc, they automatically want to actively combat it in some way, usually with the help of others. That’s very commendable say the ancients. But there’s another more fundamental and subtle law at work. And law it is, in the full sense of the word. It’s the law that declares that within evil lies the seeds of its own destruction. Take any organization, large or small. If nothing but corrupt, perverse people take command and decide upon its destiny, how long before the thing collapses under its own weight? The seeds of its fall are already in place due to the absence of goodness, truth and wisdom. When all is said and done, evil is absence. This law of implosion, of self-obliteration, is evidently working in today’s world, bringing down many a degenerate person and state. It’s working on the personal level, bringing about illness, toxicity and imbalance to unseat falsity, hypocrisy and corruption. It's also working socially to lead some very perfidious types into delirium. Although we might only witness the effects of this cathartic deconstructive principle on the political level, it’s not working for superficial rectification. Its working for a radical cleansing of the psyche and soma, put off for far too long. It's presence facilitates a process of cultural sublation by which higher octaves of consciousness are manifested, primarily in heroic people dedicated to the exposure of evil in all its forms. To correctly grasp the meaning of Koyaanisqatsi, we must understand the compensatory nature of consciousness. In other words, by foolishly accepting negative happiness we non-consciously send out a call for a new way of being - saner, truer and deeper. It means that that those with hearts full of envy and self-loathing will not get their way. On the contrary, they'll simply see their rotten societies come to an end. The ancients spoke of at least four great civilisations of prehistory, each destroyed by cataclysms brought about by humankind's error and hubris. There have been a thousand holocausts, which have occurred in a thousand ways and will recur, both by fire and by water and by many other means - (Priests of Egypt to Solon, father of Plato) Even when we read between the lines of Biblical accounts, we see that the so-called "Fall" really alludes to man's disconnection from nature. In many cases the view of ancient shaman was that culture is little more than the grave of humanity. It's what we inherit when we abandon and ignore nature's superordinate laws. Edit: www.dragonmother.org/koyaanisqatsi.html KOYAANISQATSI The Anatomy of World Decay
Bagpipes - Guthrie Govan, brightening the gap between shred and dune - can we love it even more? He's in Hans zimmers band and hands, he played them pipes thru a pedal, what a adaptation, even better book, evenly better cast
I like the shield idea, but why don’t people fighting also wear some kind of armor to stop blades? Could be plastic or ceramic and very light. Or Valyrian steel, which they can probably manufacture that far into the future.
Ill say that most of the ways that Alt Shift X pronounced names is the way they are pronounced in the audio book. So there is consistency there. Also, found you after finishing Messiah as I needed to learn more. You and Quinn rock.
I wanna see God Emperor of Dune. Really. It has a lot of dialogue... But there also scenes I could imagine in a Hollywood production.. Or maybe a streaming series? I really wanna see Leto II as a Worm. It's so weird and awesome!
I didn’t like it at first, but by the time I finished the butlerian jihad I really liked it. I didn’t even know it was a trilogy til then end. Yo I got more work to do.
I never watched the new Dune movie or read the series, but I did read the first four Foundation novels which is a series Alt Shift could cover (or Alt Schwift, if he’s was feeling saucy). Almost basically lands between “All Tomorrows” and “Dune””
Yeah im surprised he’s never mentioned it?? Like he does series about GoT and Dune and talks about all these political sci-fi and that he loves that genre. I mean i’d highly recommend it, for me Foundation & Dune went hand in hand, they’re so so different in style, form and message but equally thought-provoking (I mean Foundation is literally all about overarching structures and institutions and governments being important).
@@leeoswald5643i do feel that the first part of the Second Foundation is the weaker part of the series with all the telekinetic fights and jargon ranting. It feels so weird and unlike the other books the way they just rant and the author tries desperately to describe how epic the battle of the minds are and it sounds so forced and cheesy
@@GuineaPigEveryday it’s definitely more stripped back in terms of writing too, he may just not enjoy that, which is fair because I avoid the AGOT series because of Martin’s flavor of writing
There's a fan theory going around that I like. Wanna, his wife, was sent by the Bene Gesserit to see if Bene Gesserit could break the conditioning. While it didn't do it itself, Pityr managed to pick at the newfound cracks in Yueh's conditioning.
It's the theory I like most, that Wanna's Bene Gesserit abilities conditioned Yueh in a way that superseded his Imperial conditioning, cuz that bit of world-building is a bit of a head-scratcher otherwise. Like, the Baron breaks Yueh's conditioning by kidnapping his wife? Wouldn't that be the _exact_ kind of scenario Imperial conditioning would be _designed_ for?
That's actually from the Dune Encyclopedia which is quasi-canon. Essentially a bunch of other writers wrote up a fake encyclopedia in the deep future of the Dune series as if they were a group of historians trying to guess what happened during the events of the story. Frank liked it enough to consider it canon, but because it is written "thousands of years afterwards" you can't consider the word of random historians to be exactly right. Edit: The idea is that Wanna was a Bene Gesserit Imprinter and used their conditioning techniques to override his previous conditioning. His conditioned devotion to his wife theoretically was stronger than whatever the Imperial Conditioning process accomplished. Other "historians" posit that Imperial Conditioning is actually fake among other things. Edit 2: Now that I think about it, I guess that's still a fan theory, even if it was Frank approved.
@@Xelpherpolis I'm inclined to think that it was something he didn't have an answer for, and either didn't bother, or simply didn't think of one in time. Then again, his entire story of Dune is to think outside the box, and we're supposed to fill in our own plot. More than likely the first one, though.
The idea that the Roman Empire fell because of decadence (and degeneracy) and all that was a 19th to 20th century interpretation of history but isn't really something modern historians really see as a thing anymore. I think nowadays it's mostly used by fascists and people with tendencies in that direction because it provides an easy way to make populist points against elites without actually saying anything of substance about politics and conditions, it fits neatly into a religious narrative about the consequences of worldly vices and they also usually use it to frame anything they don't like (like sexual orientations, people having fun without caring for religion ect. ) as dangers for the stability of civilization. There are even modern historians who reject the idea that the Roman Empire really collapsed in that apocalyptic way people often think about it with naked barbarians smashing marble statues and whatever. When you actually look into it, it's really far less exciting and most damage to the Roman infrastructure wasn't even caused by the Visigoths but in the 6th century by the Eastern Romans under Justinian I on their reconquest of Italy.
I don’t entirely disagree with you so don’t take this the wrong way, but i think it’s important to note that the romans themselves in their own time believe in a sort of theory of cyclical history, and they would very much have attributed their own civilization decline (to the extent that they saw it that way) to an increase in decadence and degeneracy, coupled with being out of touch with the virtues of their ancestors, etc. so whether that narrative is factually supported or not, it’s certainly nothing new to the 19/20th century or any rome-worshipping ideologies that came out of that time.
I really liked the Brian Herbert books. I know a lot of people don't like his books, but I accept them as concluding the story. Unless someone creates a Frank Herbert Ghola he won't be finishing the story himself.
Correction: Frank Herbert never intended to write a 7th Dune book. Chapterhouse ends neatly, and the epilogue makes it pretty clear that he was finished writing them. The claim about “notes for Dune 7” and the idea that Dune was unfinished came from BH/KJA’s marketing team. I hate everything they did.
Hey I really hate to bring up that Alt Schwift X guy, but I hope you can give his contact info over to Quinn’s Ideas? Love your stuff as always Alt Shift X. I’d love a Quinn’s Ideas/ Alt schwift outrageous dune theory talk! Great Videos as always 👍🏻
How do you feel about the work of the son of Frank Herbert, it would be interesting to know your opinion. I started my acquaintance with Dune, somewhere in the period from 2003 to 2005, when I was a teenager, at first there was an original series and I discovered the books of his son only later. All this prehistory of Dune seemed interesting to me then. But two years ago I read one of his son's works again and changed my mind completely. They seem to have some kind of interesting plot, but ideologically they are weak, the authors just endlessly chew on the same things. Especially weak is Dune-7, the completion of the entire series, but this is just my opinion. What do you think about this?
I cannot imagine the purposefully rotten state of mind one must have to claim Dune is a "white savior" story. Hearing that comment made me choke on my chicken tendies.
As usual I missed the livestream, but I caught the "rerun" and loved your video as always. Learned so much, but I have to disagree with you on the Barron's "red nappies" (if you want your own you can order them from Huggies). They look great, and I am going to have to go back and watch the mini series. Also you mentioned you have not read the Last Kingdom series by Bernard Cornwell. It is an historical novel series that is worth checking out. And the tv show Deadwood also starts out with a guy being hanged by pulling on his legs to kill him quickly. Much like you I could talk about this insane Dune series forever, and I have only read the first three books.
The mini series was my first Dune experience. For all its faults, the greatness of the story still translated and hit me. Tried to rewatch it last week and it was unwatchable. Haha. I am reading the book now tho.
I think read in a wiki somewhere that there is a quote that spice is reddish brown? Spice being blue in raw form just doesn’t work for me personally. Though is there any explanation exactly why the eyes turn blue and water of life blue?
This movie's version of Jessica looks nothing like her description in the novel and she has absolutely ZERO personality. Francesca Annis (in the Lynch movie) nailed it.
the movie and his videos are the reason I got into the books I bought the first book and am loving it. I just bought the bookset of the original 6. very excited.
Concerning Azhor Ahai and the prallels with mazdeism, I think it´s interesting that "Azura" means demon in Hindi, the creatures fighting against the gods or "daevas". While in Iran/Persia, after the zoroastric reformation, "Ahura" becomes the name of their deity, while "devas" comes to mean demon. It reminds me quite a bit about Rh´llor being a god to his followers and a demon to all others. /by the way, mazdeism is truly a fascinating religion)
After arriving Dune coming from Caladan, a world with so much water people could swim on it. Remembering that, how did the Atreides do with bath and personal hygiene thingys in general? Just a thought. :)
Hi. Esperanto speaker here. Esperanto was not created to replace other languages, far from it. It was actually created to protect them. By using a common, neutral tool to communicate, your own language could remain in your community, and you wouldn't be forced to learn other languages which might be imposed upon you. If a language is forced upon you, its culture is forced as well. Esperanto was also created as a way to facilitate peace and understanding. Of course one can debate whether it was a good idea, or whether it worked at all. Sadly it didn't help that its creator was a Polack Jew, and quite a good number of Esperanto speakers ended up in the concentration camps as the language was seen as a tool for world domination. Zamenhof's family was almost completely eliminated, only a nephew remained.
I also learned how to speak Esperanto in school and was taught about its message and meaning. I do agree with most of what you say but I dislike how Esperanto is basically a mixing of all the languages. I dislike things like Portunol or border-Finnish too, I think the sanctity of how languages evolved by themselves should be kept. I fought a lot for the right of Catalunains to learn Catalan in school and Galicians to be able to have the Bible in Galician.
@@sheogorath6804 Hi, thank you for your reply. Esperanto vocabulary draws from different languages (the grammar is however rather unique, it has no clear inspiration in European languages; it is closer to Turkish or Chinese). This by itself is not that unusual, most national languages draw from other languages. My native language for example (Italian) draws from Latin, Greek and French among others. Latin itself draws from different languages. The verb 'to be' in Latin is 'sum, est, fui, esse', and that itself already contains three different PIE roots. I welcome your attempts to protect all languages. Languages evolve and new forms of expression can be created out of previous languages. This by itself is not a problem to me, I actually think it is natural and should be freely allowed. What is a problem to me is forceful suppression or forceful replacement of languages, and by extension, of cultures of which those languages are products and forms of expression. You mention Portuñol. I am not against it. However if it were to be adopted officially by a government and that government made it the _only_ allowed language, e.g. making it illegal (or discriminatory) to speak Spanish or Portuguese, that I would be against.
@@mnlg_yt I think we are in agreement about most things there. Esperanto's attempt at being a lingua franca by drawing from various languages is morally virtuous and since it was designed to be a second language to help people communicate across borders I have no issue with it's composition. I am Portuguese, so like Fernando Pessoa said "we speak a language as similar to Latin as you are to your parents", however we have heavy Celtic, Arab, and Nordic influences. For instance European Portuguese uses Germanic cadence as Brazilian Portuguese doesn't, which is why if you listen to Cristiano Ronaldo speak Portuguese he sounds Russian but if someone is speaking Brazilian Portuguese it's usually mistaken as Spanish or very unmistakable
@@sheogorath6804 All cool, just as a final note, to counter your "Esperanto is basically a mixing of all the languages" (which is IMHO a very inaccurate description), if you are interested I recommend Waringhien's book "1887 kaj la sekvo...", detailing the reasoning behind certain choices of words and of grammar, and Zamenhof's long process of refinement of the language, going through several intermediate versions. Thank you for your messages and good night.
Re: spice color -- spice is described as brown in Book 5! But it's also described as blue in Book 4 and indigo in Book 3. Different chemical forms maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Could also mean a different strength level to each colour?
Or maybe Herbert forgot & didn’t care? 😂 knowing his writing it wouldn’t surprise me that he doesn’t care what colour things are. Even something as important as spice
Blue? Could that be the spice essence or water of life kinda thing? The pre-spice stuff? I can not remember it being anything but brown/orange ^^
I only remember indigo as the description of the eyes of the fremen. (book chapter 8 "blue spice-tinted eyes" :)
Edit: yeah it seems that the "spice melange" which basically is the syrip/essence, right, is indigo colored ^^ that is.... weird... but well the spice is in sand so that blue would not last long
The flying machines in the Dune 2021 movies are more practical than flying machines in the books. Matter of fact not much of the mechanics work in the Dune books.
Frank Herbert was a fan of Richard Nixon. A corrupt racist president. I don't think he'll have a problem with today's society at all.
Alt Shift X is so humble and respectful. He literally says “I can’t comment on those books because I haven’t read them”
Then someone chimes in and says “you shouldn’t be a hater and comment on something if you haven’t read it”
And Alt Shift X just goes “Yeah I think that’s good advice” as if he didn’t literally say that 20 seconds earlier.
Absolute respect.
"as if he didn’t literally say that 20 seconds earlier"
- Not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but that donation message showed up a couple minutes before he responded. He clearly doesn't read the donation messages instantly as they show up. He finishes his point and goes down the list eventually.
@@doryfishie2 You’re correct. However when he read the live chat, he had already just finished saying he shouldn’t comment. So when he read it he could have said “Yeah I just said that” but he didn’t, he acknowledged it respectfully. And I think that’s nice.
@@doryfishie2 ç
He's a class act.
As it was written. He really is Lisan Al Gaib
I love that in Dune, the most influential sci-fi saga, there are no AI and aliens, which are two of the sort of hallmarks of sci-fi in general and space operas specifically. Frank Herbert was really more interested in the exploration of literal human potential. A while there's faster-than-light travel, prescience, genetic memory, lasguns, cloning and all of these things, Dune is a deeply humanist story. I really wish more people read Dune.
The sandworms are technically aliens and the AI threat was already dealt with by the time Dune begins, but I get what you mean.
@@muttipi re the sandworms, we don't actually know. Leto II says that they were seeded in Dune, but we don't know by whom and from where. They could still be modified from worms that came from old Terra, for all we know.
@@AllTheArtsy - Their biology is so weird, I think it's a safe assumption the are not derived from Terran life.
No AI, but AI’s presence is felt all throughout-The nature of the world shown is a direct and indirect result of the rejection of Thinking Machines.
The Orange Catholic Bible, need I say more?
Except for maybe the god emperor, he is more worm lol
As for shields and Fremen: I really liked the detail in the book, that Paul with his shield-fighting training looked like arrogantly toying with Jamis because his shield-penetrating "killing blows" were slow, so it looked like he held back.
Alt Shift with an absolute deluge of content lately. Yes please.
Daddy made us some content
Makes up for the ages we had to wait till the dune video xD
If only that lazy poser alt shwift were equally prolific 😜
@@palemoonlight96 ?m
Deluge 😂 awesome 👌
For the question of breaking imperial conditioning: The baron wants to keep it secret, because it's a powerful weapon. Maybe lots of other people have broken it as well, but also kept it secret. Maybe the conditioning isn't actually all that perfect, but everyone wants to believe it is. Also, I'm so glad you've gotten into Dune. I can wait to see what you have to say about the last two books. I honestly really love them.
This is actually quite good. I always wondered how they thought it was so mindblowing to use loved ones as leverage I mean its not that genius. I could imagine a society of aristocrats being to proud to admit it though.
Emperor's conditioning just like emperor's clothes😁
Another possibility is that Wanda was a Bene Gesserit who thought Yueh some training, which was my head canon I think. I also kinda accepted that Yueh was, just as everyone in the Atreides inner circle, a very unusual an gifted individual, who might just very well be the exception of the rule.
I don't know but I remember reading somewhere that one can break conditioning by making a ghola that has memories of their first life. They would think they were conditioned, act like they were conditioned under normal conditions, but if a real pressure, like kidnapping a loved one is used, the nonexistent conditioning won't be any help obviously and they would break. Because they themselves aren't conditioned. Not sure about the source though. Because before reading this, I thought Heyt was the first ghola with awaken memories.
True
AS for the spice, there's a chance its color depends on the situations its in. Its described as brown when its in the spice tank, and coming from the tank. At the same time, whenever water is present, like the spice bloom, or the water of life, or the fremen's eyes, its blue.
Fun fact about God emperor Dune! It technically has been adapted in a show, it was the Grimm adventures of Billy and Mandy when in a bottle episode there is a vision of a future where Mandy is Leto 2 in a giant worm body and controls cinnamon throughout the universe. Billy of course is her Duncan Idaho and has killed him thousands of times for her amusement.
This is amazing, definitely have to watch this episode later
damn
"Did you change your hair, Mandy?" 🤣
Also during “My Fair Mandy” there’s a beauty pageant and one of the tests for it is the Gom Jabbar. they also quote the Litany at some point in another episode
@@turtleguyfan deam i'd never noticed that too
The commitment to the Alt Shwift X bit is definitely one of my favorite things about the livestreams
I can't express how much I love ALT shift X's content.
"Atreides" from the Greek family "the House of Atreus". Atreides is a plural form. This is why they have an olive complexion: They're originally Mediterranean.
I don't think that humans will retain the same skin color after 20-30,000 years.
@@soumen_pradhan That's probably true, but the books specifically note the olive complexion.
@@NessieJapan Sure, they can be olive. But we can't say they are Mediterranean based on this fact alone.
@@soumen_pradhan I'm not saying they're Mediterranean because they're olive-complected. I'm saying they're originally Mediterranean because they come from the House of Atreus, which was Mediterranean. They're olive-complected in the books because they were originally Mediterranean.
I think, after the tens of thousands of years since Earth of or times, humanity mingled and melded ultimately all becoming shades of olive, the only shades Herbert uses to describe people except those who isolated their planets and used eugenics which modified their appearance.
The thing I like in the book that was also in the movie is the scene in the tent. The way Herbert describes Paul’s prescient vision is so much more intense and described in a way that is almost impossible to capture in film.
The part at 1:05:00 where your talking about in the book that The Reverand Mother shed a tear for Jessica, it is important to remember that Gaius permitted that tear to fall, as the Bene Geseret can fully control their whole body. It was a calculated show of emotions.
Sorry if I miss-spelled the names
I mean we have full control of our mouths but we let stupid shit slip out of it.
@@frans8861 Reverend Mother don't let stupid shit slip out. They are for all intents and purposes barely human.
@@blue-pi2kt she's still human and all humans fall short of the glory of GOD.
@@blue-pi2kt In the books she certainly lets some stupid shit out. Princess Irulan as well in the second book.
@@viderevero1338 Irulan is not a Reverend Mother to my knowledge.
Was a lot of fun to hear you and Quinn talk Dune! I'd love to see you do a deep dive into God Emperor of Dune since it's even less likely to be filmed.
I agree... The bright red nappi Baron is awful.
But... The playful manipulative monster that the baron in the books is, is, so amazing. I adore him and Piter's back and forth.
I always thought that the imprinting Yueh received from his Bene Gesserit wife (since Bene Gesserit women are known to do that) interfered with the Imperial conditioning and the Harkonnens exploited that. So the feelings Yueh had for his wife are much stronger and deeper than typical spousal love which is why torturing his wife worked. I'm not sure about this though.
Nice argument. I understand that it was never categorically explained how his conditioning was broken.
I'm loving your analysis of Dune here. After you finish the last two books, I hope you do a video with all the spoilers about your thoughts on the whole series. Even if you don't, I've loved all the content you've done so far.
The "white saviour" question was handled so eloquently and expertly
At 1:21:00 I thought the question was whack. “Magical negro” “exotic foreign woman” like give me a break dude and I’m a liberal too but Herbert gave us a story that’s central theme is questioning leadership and directly critiquing the typical “white savior” stories we see everywhere else. He went out of his way to show the Atreides (despite being the morally “good” faction) manipulating the fremen and using them for their own gain and then having Paul despise the jihad and the religion formed around himself despite the fact he helped manipulate the fremen masses into forming it! And what does this person want? Would they have preferred all the fremen be white? No cause then they’d be first in line to complain about diversity…again whack question.
@@davidrossi5096 Also don't forget Frank Herbert by his own word admitted this is Lawrence of Arabia in space which kind of is a real "white saviour" story. Lawrence doesn't save them but he does lead them well against the Ottomans, using tactics the Beduin Muslims wouldn't know without his help. But I absolutely do not think Lawrence was a "white saviour"
Edit: Also Lawrence is obviously still celebrated as a hero in Iraq and Damascus, and any Iraqi will tell you they owe a lot to the actions of muh white saviour
Love these Dune discussions. I just read 12 of them and though I've taken a break to read other things for a bit, I still cannot get enough. I will be reading them again, and it's the first book series that has rivaled LotRs for me (though they are loved for different reasons and aren't really in competition).
Note: From what I gather raw spice is brownish red from impurities, but pure concentrated "spice essence" is definitely blue.
I really like your explanation of the orange catholic bible and frank herberts views on religion. Really cleared up my confusion.
Yooo I'm so excited for all this Dune content, I just finally watched the movie with no knowledge whatsoever about Dune and man was I blown away with the spirituality of the entire story AS the cherry on top. Since the visuals and performances are a 4 course meal of deliciousness
Would be amazing if you did a few videos on the 40K history and even the major comparisons to Dune. I play and have read 40k and didn't realise how much of it comes from Dune. Watching the movie constantly made me think of the 40k universe. Love the content!
I listened to the whole series (up till Chapterhouse) in audiobook. It made it easier to follow rather than reading, and Herbert's style is quite poetic, full of repetition. It sounds amazing.
That's not how the Baron broke Yueh. Pietr is the one to figure it out. Pietr through manipulation and the torture of his wife convinces Yueh that he would be saving lives by killing the Baron. The only way to assassinate him though is by sacrificing Duke Leto like he does. Pietr just believes that he killed Yueh before the attempt
I want to thank you for representing Dune in its truth. I have loved Dune since I was small. I found old paperbacks of the books. They're like quicksand to read at times, but Herbert truly created a complete universe. He wrote it so that the reader could see it as he did. Thank you!
I think that Paul's choice to join the Fremen isn't actually a change. In the book Paul sees that if he lets Jamis kill him in the duel that the Jihad will happen even without him, so he decides to kill Jamis and try to take the reigns on his visions to steer them towards a slightly less brutal path. So in the books Paul still makes a conscious choice to lead his Jihad rather than letting it happen without him. Of course, placing the decision after the duel is a pretty major shift, but I don't think it actually was a major enough change to care about.
I think the film gets the appearance of Spice perfectly, it's exactly how I've seen it in the books.
Look at it in view of the desert as "the ocean without water", and how Spice is utilized in the perception of time. When raw, Spice can appear like sand; but when you imbibe or purify it, it's the blue of the ocean, just as your perception of time through Spice can reveal the true nature of the desert and its dunes of sand rolling and shifting like waves in the ocean.
Respect the shout out to Quinn! He has the best Dune content out there on UA-cam.
The thing with the Imperial Conditioning being "broken" at least with my own interpretation at least. I was under the impression that the Condition was actually never really broken, cause everything Yueh did was still in service to house atreides. All that he did was to keep the house alive, cause it's very clear Leto was doomed, and to save the house he had to be sacrificed. I don't know, there's a lot going on, but in the end my take away was that the conditioning was never actually broken, and that's why the Baron got fucked in the end.
Great work ASX, I’m incredibly especially thankful that you’re so spoiler conscious with the books
Ornithopter is clearly taken from ornithology which is the study of birds. So they definitely should have looked like birds. The ones in the movie should have been called “insectithopters”
Entopter from Entomology (Study of Insects)
@@egggge4752 Good one, you’re right!
Although the ones in the show look a bit like the Riout 102T Alérion which is considered an Ornithopter although it has two pairs of wings.
Can't wait until Alt Shift X starts covering The Elder Scrolls, the depth of lore in the combine universe is staggering and deserves the "ASX Treatment" imo.
Unless you already have- in which case please point me that way
The whole thing with the dinner and the like it was more of Leto being considerate of how Jessica does not like to have the bull head with Arreides blood around while eating but that may have been me
Excellent stream. Thank you! It's very re-listenable, I put it on as a podcast in the background probably at least once while doing other things.
I prefer the idea of traveling through space like it says in the books…i feel like that was the point of spice and the navigators becoming mutated…because the speed and precognitive abilities your mind would need to think and process information is so intense that you must consume spice and undergone physiological changes to endure it.
When I was reading Dune to my kids I warned them about the "slow start". That it didn't really "get going" until they got to Arrakis. I read the first chapter and my kids were like "So, a life threatening event is a slow start? I'm IN!"
SkyNet is from terminator; the computer all knowing was called Omnius. The books are well worth the read; and with input from folks who aren’t truly engaged w the lore and complimentary players-just feels as though something is missing.
Alt Shift the 🐐! My hunger for this channels Dune and House of the Dragon content has eclipsed even Baron Harkonnen levels
its a fun looong content to enjoy. QnA is probably my favourite format to tie up the end.
1:47:35 I love that point about Quins video is as much of an adaptation as you’re gonna want. That is actually a great compliment. I feel that way watching his videos on the dune series. Especially with all the art and imagery he incorporates.
... Ashurbanipal, also spelled Assurbanipal, or Asurbanipal, (flourished 7th century bc), last of the great kings of Assyria (reigned 668 to 627 bc), who assembled in Nineveh the first systematically organized library in the ancient Middle East. The Royal Library of Ashurbanipal, is a collection of more than 30,000 clay tablets and fragments containing texts of all kinds from the 7th century BC, including texts in various languages. Among its holdings was the famous Epic of Gilgamesh. Baked clay tablets about the Annunaki... space travelers who apparently created humans and were living on Earth during The Great Flood. Frank Herbert would have been familiar with Zecharia Sitchin's books...
New subscriber here, just wanted to make sure you knew it was because of all of this great Dune content. Great work man!
Spoilers: Regarding the ending being abrupt, I don't really think you can do it any better way as the story is clearly divided into three parts. The first is the death of Paul Atreides, Second is the birth of Usul and Paul Mua'Dib and the third is finale, the rise of the inevitable jihad and the acceptance of being the Kwisatz Haderach
. The first movie ends when Paul joins the fremen and becomes Mua'Dib.
I am worried about the 2 later parts because they are so complex especially with Pauls sister and I hope the rising conflict with Stilgar is portrayed right.
When I read dune, I assumed the earth animals on Arrakis and any other planets were simply put there by humans during the 10,000 years of space travel prior to the jihad. There are mentions of fish on caladan, among other animals, but never actually any *alien* life in dune, other then the sand worms. Arrakis, caladan, Geidi prime, all probably where completely uninhabitable, dead rocks, without even a breathable atmosphere, that advanced humans terraformed. Maybe more advanced humans before the guild never found alien life, or more likely it couldn’t co-exist in the same environment as us, so recreated earth ecosystem were simply put in place. Now the mystery of where the sand worms come into this, is oddest thing. There the only distinctly non-earth lifeform, and they can only survive in an environment humans can barely survive.
Which leads me to believe they could be of a truly alien origin.
I would like to point out that Yuehs wife is Bene Gesserit and over time could have broken the doctors conditioning already, or could have placed a deeper conditioning for loyalty to her. He may have come pre-broken. It never mentions or hints at this in the books, but come on, it's the BG
“Take her apart like a doll” Just that sounds horrible enough to to break Yuen’s Suk conditioning.
Good to see Quinn getting so much attention from bigger youtubers.
A lot of spice is brown, but the blue stuff is actually produced by Walter White.
There is a 1977 book from Herbert "The Dosadi Experiment" where basil is a psycothropic substance to the Dosadi natives.
The weirding modules were added in the Lynch film because Lynch didnt want to do "kungfu in space"
An animated series sounds really really good
😂 That Salvador Dali story is hilarious.
Someone mentioned Legend of the Galactic Heroes. If you like political and philosophical space opera epics, watch it. The original version more so than the new remake. Or I guess you can read it, since English translation have been finally released some years ago. It is a Japanese novel from 80s that was adapted into OVA anime in a period of 10 years. Incredible characters and world. A lot of well made war room action too. A lot more realistic and grounded than what some people might expect when they hear Japan an anime. It is a long story, but totally worth it! A Prusian-like galactic empire goes to war with a democratic alliance. In terms of characters and world it is more like A Song of Ice and Fire, though philosophy wise it deals with political ideas better than Dune, really.
45:20 Great, now I can't stop hearing Palpatine going:
Dune iT!
*Dune drinking game:*
Take half a shot every time dune is said.
Take a shot eventime he mentions not wanting to spoil something.
😏🤣
Thanks for the video. Love your content.
This is a weird experience for me. I read the Dune books in the 1960's when I was in high school. Didn't much like the later books. Never heard of a son writing more books. Watched the 1986 movie, not so good, kept looking for more though. Just found out about these movies (Part 1 is on reserve at the library already). And I might have to read the books again to get into context.
On the thing about the fourth book and on, I am considering persuing audiobooks to finally get through them, because to be honest, I have never gotten through "Children of Dune" in text form. I have watched the miniseries, so I understand the majority of the storyline. So I encorage anyone who has problems with reading dense text, audiobook.
The links behind Gius and Jessica is not later books, it is later in the first book, though I acknowledge the knock-on effects come up again in CoD.
The Spice gas the Navigators live in is described in book 2 as orange. I haven't come across the passage in person, but I also heard the powder is brown but can glow blue. When I get onto the audiobooks for further books I will see what they say.
The idea of Bene Gesserit sexual control is given it's foundation in the first book, in a plot about Feyd Ruatha that becomes important at the end.
We are fortunate that Alt Shift X exists.
Wonderful video. Loved your commentary on this.
June is only a week away, thanks for reminding me, my dude.
1:38:00 on the topic or spice color: book two mentions the spice that edric eats and lives in as being orange
Love the entire stream, but this has bugged me -- assuming the lady Jessica was "technically a slave" based on the usage of the word "bound" to the Duke is a leap. "Bound" is a word we use colloquially regarding marriage, it's not unusual to say bound by marriage, or use the word in other phrases such as "ties that bind," etc. Lady Jessica and the Duke are significantly NOT married, but she IS bound to him while HE remains free to wed officially, for political reasons. It is still, however, a partnership so she is the one who is monogamously tied to him in the romantic and sexual sense, and perhaps as a subject in his Dukedom. But being "bound" does not indicate slavery, necessarily, any more than modern folks bound by marriage vows are in any way considered to be slaves to each other. It's flowery language to indicate the nature of the partnership. Not necessarily anything more.
He did literally buy her though
The bagpipes are the pugs of Dune 2021.
Bring back the pugs!
Would love if you made a video about Annihilation / The Southern Reach Trilogy!
He’s made one but needs to do a bigger one like this
Never stop pronouncing it dJune. It's fabulous 👌
22:08 On the Baron this comes into mind as part of the philosophy with Dune: Sankofa is a principle derived from the Akan people of Ghana that one should remember the past to make positive progress in the future. Upon which the Baron 110% neurotically, and thru suppression, with repression always rejects in doing but then again the mannerism reveals: The Hopi refer to this endemic state of imbalance, falsity and depravity as Koyaanisqatsi. They define it as a condition in which a thing is so irrational, corrupt and unsustainable that it eventually implodes in upon itself without external forces acting upon it.
It's a rather sophisticated account of a decaying civilisation, and must be taken seriously. This is because when good people witness or experience injustice, degeneracy, delinquency and crime, etc, they automatically want to actively combat it in some way, usually with the help of others. That’s very commendable say the ancients. But there’s another more fundamental and subtle law at work.
And law it is, in the full sense of the word. It’s the law that declares that within evil lies the seeds of its own destruction.
Take any organization, large or small. If nothing but corrupt, perverse people take command and decide upon its destiny, how long before the thing collapses under its own weight? The seeds of its fall are already in place due to the absence of goodness, truth and wisdom. When all is said and done, evil is absence.
This law of implosion, of self-obliteration, is evidently working in today’s world, bringing down many a degenerate person and state.
It’s working on the personal level, bringing about illness, toxicity and imbalance to unseat falsity, hypocrisy and corruption. It's also working socially to lead some very perfidious types into delirium.
Although we might only witness the effects of this cathartic deconstructive principle on the political level, it’s not working for superficial rectification. Its working for a radical cleansing of the psyche and soma, put off for far too long. It's presence facilitates a process of cultural sublation by which higher octaves of consciousness are manifested, primarily in heroic people dedicated to the exposure of evil in all its forms.
To correctly grasp the meaning of Koyaanisqatsi, we must understand the compensatory nature of consciousness. In other words, by foolishly accepting negative happiness we non-consciously send out a call for a new way of being - saner, truer and deeper.
It means that that those with hearts full of envy and self-loathing will not get their way. On the contrary, they'll simply see their rotten societies come to an end. The ancients spoke of at least four great civilisations of prehistory, each destroyed by cataclysms brought about by humankind's error and hubris.
There have been a thousand holocausts, which have occurred in a thousand ways and will recur, both by fire and by water and by many other means - (Priests of Egypt to Solon, father of Plato)
Even when we read between the lines of Biblical accounts, we see that the so-called "Fall" really alludes to man's disconnection from nature. In many cases the view of ancient shaman was that culture is little more than the grave of humanity. It's what we inherit when we abandon and ignore nature's superordinate laws.
Edit: www.dragonmother.org/koyaanisqatsi.html KOYAANISQATSI
The Anatomy of World Decay
Sweet and right on time!
Bagpipes - Guthrie Govan, brightening the gap between shred and dune - can we love it even more? He's in Hans zimmers band and hands, he played them pipes thru a pedal, what a adaptation, even better book, evenly better cast
I like the shield idea, but why don’t people fighting also wear some kind of armor to stop blades? Could be plastic or ceramic and very light. Or Valyrian steel, which they can probably manufacture that far into the future.
Ill say that most of the ways that Alt Shift X pronounced names is the way they are pronounced in the audio book. So there is consistency there.
Also, found you after finishing Messiah as I needed to learn more. You and Quinn rock.
I wanna see God Emperor of Dune. Really. It has a lot of dialogue... But there also scenes I could imagine in a Hollywood production.. Or maybe a streaming series? I really wanna see Leto II as a Worm. It's so weird and awesome!
I didn’t like it at first, but by the time I finished the butlerian jihad I really liked it. I didn’t even know it was a trilogy til then end. Yo I got more work to do.
“You can’t be a NIMBY with a jihad” haha 😂
I never watched the new Dune movie or read the series, but I did read the first four Foundation novels which is a series Alt Shift could cover (or Alt Schwift, if he’s was feeling saucy). Almost basically lands between “All Tomorrows” and “Dune””
Foundation series is literally the best scifi series every written.
Yeah im surprised he’s never mentioned it?? Like he does series about GoT and Dune and talks about all these political sci-fi and that he loves that genre. I mean i’d highly recommend it, for me Foundation & Dune went hand in hand, they’re so so different in style, form and message but equally thought-provoking (I mean Foundation is literally all about overarching structures and institutions and governments being important).
@@leeoswald5643i do feel that the first part of the Second Foundation is the weaker part of the series with all the telekinetic fights and jargon ranting. It feels so weird and unlike the other books the way they just rant and the author tries desperately to describe how epic the battle of the minds are and it sounds so forced and cheesy
@@GuineaPigEveryday it’s definitely more stripped back in terms of writing too, he may just not enjoy that, which is fair because I avoid the AGOT series because of Martin’s flavor of writing
There's a fan theory going around that I like. Wanna, his wife, was sent by the Bene Gesserit to see if Bene Gesserit could break the conditioning. While it didn't do it itself, Pityr managed to pick at the newfound cracks in Yueh's conditioning.
It's the theory I like most, that Wanna's Bene Gesserit abilities conditioned Yueh in a way that superseded his Imperial conditioning, cuz that bit of world-building is a bit of a head-scratcher otherwise.
Like, the Baron breaks Yueh's conditioning by kidnapping his wife? Wouldn't that be the _exact_ kind of scenario Imperial conditioning would be _designed_ for?
That's actually from the Dune Encyclopedia which is quasi-canon. Essentially a bunch of other writers wrote up a fake encyclopedia in the deep future of the Dune series as if they were a group of historians trying to guess what happened during the events of the story. Frank liked it enough to consider it canon, but because it is written "thousands of years afterwards" you can't consider the word of random historians to be exactly right.
Edit: The idea is that Wanna was a Bene Gesserit Imprinter and used their conditioning techniques to override his previous conditioning. His conditioned devotion to his wife theoretically was stronger than whatever the Imperial Conditioning process accomplished. Other "historians" posit that Imperial Conditioning is actually fake among other things.
Edit 2: Now that I think about it, I guess that's still a fan theory, even if it was Frank approved.
@@Xelpherpolis I'm inclined to think that it was something he didn't have an answer for, and either didn't bother, or simply didn't think of one in time.
Then again, his entire story of Dune is to think outside the box, and we're supposed to fill in our own plot.
More than likely the first one, though.
@@TryingExtraHard I still think that he couldn't think of anything by the time it was time to goto print.
Great and informative video as always! Thank you.
Loved the video! I can’t find the Philosophy video that you mentioned though. Was it cancelled or deleted?
jason momoa was probably not the best casting decision - he just plays himself. same reason i worry about christopher walken
God, they butchered Duncan Idaho.
He is going to play a lot of himself in future Dune movies.
The idea that the Roman Empire fell because of decadence (and degeneracy) and all that was a 19th to 20th century interpretation of history but isn't really something modern historians really see as a thing anymore. I think nowadays it's mostly used by fascists and people with tendencies in that direction because it provides an easy way to make populist points against elites without actually saying anything of substance about politics and conditions, it fits neatly into a religious narrative about the consequences of worldly vices and they also usually use it to frame anything they don't like (like sexual orientations, people having fun without caring for religion ect. ) as dangers for the stability of civilization.
There are even modern historians who reject the idea that the Roman Empire really collapsed in that apocalyptic way people often think about it with naked barbarians smashing marble statues and whatever. When you actually look into it, it's really far less exciting and most damage to the Roman infrastructure wasn't even caused by the Visigoths but in the 6th century by the Eastern Romans under Justinian I on their reconquest of Italy.
I don’t entirely disagree with you so don’t take this the wrong way, but i think it’s important to note that the romans themselves in their own time believe in a sort of theory of cyclical history, and they would very much have attributed their own civilization decline (to the extent that they saw it that way) to an increase in decadence and degeneracy, coupled with being out of touch with the virtues of their ancestors, etc.
so whether that narrative is factually supported or not, it’s certainly nothing new to the 19/20th century or any rome-worshipping ideologies that came out of that time.
I really liked the Brian Herbert books. I know a lot of people don't like his books, but I accept them as concluding the story. Unless someone creates a Frank Herbert Ghola he won't be finishing the story himself.
Correction: Frank Herbert never intended to write a 7th Dune book. Chapterhouse ends neatly, and the epilogue makes it pretty clear that he was finished writing them.
The claim about “notes for Dune 7” and the idea that Dune was unfinished came from BH/KJA’s marketing team. I hate everything they did.
Hey I really hate to bring up that Alt Schwift X guy, but I hope you can give his contact info over to Quinn’s Ideas?
Love your stuff as always Alt Shift X. I’d love a Quinn’s Ideas/ Alt schwift outrageous dune theory talk! Great Videos as always 👍🏻
When you said "wrongLY," I just melted at the proper grammar 🥴
Ahhh i didnt see the new channel, I MISSEEEDDD IT AGAIN REEEEE
Love your in depth analysis! Keep it up
How do you feel about the work of the son of Frank Herbert, it would be interesting to know your opinion. I started my acquaintance with Dune, somewhere in the period from 2003 to 2005, when I was a teenager, at first there was an original series and I discovered the books of his son only later. All this prehistory of Dune seemed interesting to me then.
But two years ago I read one of his son's works again and changed my mind completely. They seem to have some kind of interesting plot, but ideologically they are weak, the authors just endlessly chew on the same things. Especially weak is Dune-7, the completion of the entire series, but this is just my opinion. What do you think about this?
Love the accent of the speaker on this video 😄 and great video!
I CAN NOT believe you just brought up paul stamets lol he’s the best!
Peace and wholeness fam
Leto doesn't need to be there for the sabotage to do damage, losing a harvester, spice and workers would be quite enough.
I cannot imagine the purposefully rotten state of mind one must have to claim Dune is a "white savior" story. Hearing that comment made me choke on my chicken tendies.
Will we get a review by Mr. Alt shift x for dune part 2 🫣
As usual I missed the livestream, but I caught the "rerun" and loved your video as always. Learned so much, but I have to disagree with you on the Barron's "red nappies" (if you want your own you can order them from Huggies). They look great, and I am going to have to go back and watch the mini series. Also you mentioned you have not read the Last Kingdom series by Bernard Cornwell. It is an historical novel series that is worth checking out. And the tv show Deadwood also starts out with a guy being hanged by pulling on his legs to kill him quickly. Much like you I could talk about this insane Dune series forever, and I have only read the first three books.
The mini series was my first Dune experience. For all its faults, the greatness of the story still translated and hit me. Tried to rewatch it last week and it was unwatchable. Haha. I am reading the book now tho.
Love all the new content mate, thanks :)
I think read in a wiki somewhere that there is a quote that spice is reddish brown? Spice being blue in raw form just doesn’t work for me personally. Though is there any explanation exactly why the eyes turn blue and water of life blue?
Herbert describes Jessica as having "bronze" hair.
This movie's version of Jessica looks nothing like her description in the novel and she has absolutely ZERO personality. Francesca Annis (in the Lynch movie) nailed it.
thumbs up for Sir Beef Swellington!
the movie and his videos are the reason I got into the books I bought the first book and am loving it. I just bought the bookset of the original 6. very excited.
Concerning Azhor Ahai and the prallels with mazdeism, I think it´s interesting that "Azura" means demon in Hindi, the creatures fighting against the gods or "daevas". While in Iran/Persia, after the zoroastric reformation, "Ahura" becomes the name of their deity, while "devas" comes to mean demon. It reminds me quite a bit about Rh´llor being a god to his followers and a demon to all others. /by the way, mazdeism is truly a fascinating religion)
After arriving Dune coming from Caladan, a world with so much water people could swim on it. Remembering that, how did the Atreides do with bath and personal hygiene thingys in general? Just a thought. :)
Hi. Esperanto speaker here. Esperanto was not created to replace other languages, far from it. It was actually created to protect them. By using a common, neutral tool to communicate, your own language could remain in your community, and you wouldn't be forced to learn other languages which might be imposed upon you. If a language is forced upon you, its culture is forced as well. Esperanto was also created as a way to facilitate peace and understanding. Of course one can debate whether it was a good idea, or whether it worked at all. Sadly it didn't help that its creator was a Polack Jew, and quite a good number of Esperanto speakers ended up in the concentration camps as the language was seen as a tool for world domination. Zamenhof's family was almost completely eliminated, only a nephew remained.
I also learned how to speak Esperanto in school and was taught about its message and meaning. I do agree with most of what you say but I dislike how Esperanto is basically a mixing of all the languages. I dislike things like Portunol or border-Finnish too, I think the sanctity of how languages evolved by themselves should be kept. I fought a lot for the right of Catalunains to learn Catalan in school and Galicians to be able to have the Bible in Galician.
@@sheogorath6804 Hi, thank you for your reply. Esperanto vocabulary draws from different languages (the grammar is however rather unique, it has no clear inspiration in European languages; it is closer to Turkish or Chinese). This by itself is not that unusual, most national languages draw from other languages. My native language for example (Italian) draws from Latin, Greek and French among others. Latin itself draws from different languages. The verb 'to be' in Latin is 'sum, est, fui, esse', and that itself already contains three different PIE roots. I welcome your attempts to protect all languages. Languages evolve and new forms of expression can be created out of previous languages. This by itself is not a problem to me, I actually think it is natural and should be freely allowed. What is a problem to me is forceful suppression or forceful replacement of languages, and by extension, of cultures of which those languages are products and forms of expression. You mention Portuñol. I am not against it. However if it were to be adopted officially by a government and that government made it the _only_ allowed language, e.g. making it illegal (or discriminatory) to speak Spanish or Portuguese, that I would be against.
@@mnlg_yt I think we are in agreement about most things there. Esperanto's attempt at being a lingua franca by drawing from various languages is morally virtuous and since it was designed to be a second language to help people communicate across borders I have no issue with it's composition. I am Portuguese, so like Fernando Pessoa said "we speak a language as similar to Latin as you are to your parents", however we have heavy Celtic, Arab, and Nordic influences. For instance European Portuguese uses Germanic cadence as Brazilian Portuguese doesn't, which is why if you listen to Cristiano Ronaldo speak Portuguese he sounds Russian but if someone is speaking Brazilian Portuguese it's usually mistaken as Spanish or very unmistakable
@@sheogorath6804 All cool, just as a final note, to counter your "Esperanto is basically a mixing of all the languages" (which is IMHO a very inaccurate description), if you are interested I recommend Waringhien's book "1887 kaj la sekvo...", detailing the reasoning behind certain choices of words and of grammar, and Zamenhof's long process of refinement of the language, going through several intermediate versions. Thank you for your messages and good night.