The Last Unsolved Problem of Climbing Ropes
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Why is Cut Resistance of Climbing Ropes still an unsolved problem?
Science, Testing Methods and upcoming new technologies.
New Mammut Core Protect Ropes:
www.mammut.com/int/en/product...
www.mammut.com/int/en/product...
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00:00 Intro
02:00 History
05:05 Kernmantle Technology
07:54 Cutting the Rope under different Tensions
10:58 Dyneema / Aramid in Ropes
12:51 Testing Methods
16:01 Study on Microscopic Cut Patterns
18:06 Granite Edge Test
28:31 Belaying affect on Cut Resistance
32:31 Sharp Carabiner Test
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References:
Cut resistance of climbing ropes - A comparative analysis of existing measurement methods and a simulated accident - www.sciencedirect.com/science...
Michele Caminati's rope shears as he falls off Elder Statesman (HXS 7a) @teamBMCTV - • Michele Caminati's rop...
Old Climbing footage from Movie: "Encordades" - catalanfilms.cat/ca/produccio...
Making Nylon @ Carleton University - • Making Nylon @ Carleto...
Glacier Training footage from @walterrossini - • Crevasse rescue practi...
Cut Resistance of Ropes: Part 2 | EDELRID Knowledge Base by @edelrid - • Cut Resistance of Rope...
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Camera & Assistance:
Jakub Novák, Marcos Torroba, Samuel Tuor
Animations:
Marcos Torroba, Ben
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And Special thanks to all good people supporting me via
/ hardiseasy
or
hardiseasy.com
It makes a huge difference for my ability to continue making videos like this
Deep Thanks!
Ben
#climbing #science - Спорт
We are reaching award-winning documentary level of production. Another amazing video. Glad you are back!
MY NAME ENTRY:
"MAMA ROPE"
It wraps its arms arms around you and protects you!
Marketing Bonus: It sounds a little similar to Mammut!
5:00 - 5:01 : "1946 World War II ends"
lol. lmao even
Genuinely super cool for Mammut to be that open to their labs, products, top employees, time, and access. I have zero affiliation with them nor allegence to them, but this level of openness is the kind of thing that will sway me in a store when making a buying decision. I hope other companies follow their lead. Very cool video and very informative, I definitely learned something today and had fun watching.
I hear you. I went to one of their (basically free) avalanche safety classes last winter and it was honestly refreshing. They gave most of the time to a mountain guide to talk about tour safety, planning and theory instead of pushing their products. They also presented some products but it was barely any time used for that and it was mostly on a basis of: learn to use this device - you don’t have to buy it from us, just buy one from any manufacturer for your personal safety and learn to use it well. This really built my trust in the brand and it’s ethics.
In my experience, their ropes are the best
Mammut has chalk for a great price to
You can easily tell those are the kinds of companies that just want their customers to succeed and the products often reflect that with their quality.
It's good Guerilla marketing, nothing more.
Rope named Reinhart - because "man fällt gerne rein, hart" (you like to drop in, hard).
Thanks for all the work invested! I am really thinking about becoming a member of your channel, as there is so much professional content.
Thanks for that! means a lot for me!
@@HardIsEasy Did not choose the member-way, but the "Mini-Support" should help as well. Keep up the good work! I am looking forward to seeing new content!
I like the way you are thinking. Only one drawback: I dont like to fall hard but rather the opposite :D
Haha, perfekt, kann mich aber noch immer nicht entscheiden ob ich den trockenen Deutschen oder schwarzen Englischen Humor besser finde 🤔👍
"First your back will snap *giggle*" 😅
33:30 "it looks very violent" hahahahaha
real cringe
@@lincruste That's not cringe at all, that's not what that word is even for. It's clear that woman is nervous and it's even more clear that English isn't her first language. Go outside and talk to people besides your family and you'd recognize this lol. Stop being so basic😂.
@@lincruste An interesting thing about human psychology is that we like to balance things when we feel a quick emotion change. That's why someone may giggle at a horrifying thing like a back getting snapped. We pick an opposing emotion. Like when we see cute kitten, you may have heard of someone saying "it's so cute I could eat it".
@@chadmayes3993 Didn't know this. Thanks for educating me. It happens to explain something my 8 years old son told me a few days ago about our cat: "she so cute I'd kill her". No joke.
2020: I only watch science channels on YT
2022: I only watch science channels and Hard Is Easy on YT
2024: I only watch science channels on YT
he came back as gandalf the white, full of wisdom
except he can't do math.
According to mr Gandalf 2024 minus 1964 is 80.
7:28 "Ok in 1964 we got the first rope that is certified.....to not break our backs
And now 80 years later and we still using the same technology."
@@mikel.mp4
As someone who broke each leg in 6 places after a 10m fall when a system failed, this Mammut rope might get me back, but it does come in 11mm (😅-;. As for a name, the mushroom.
i have to ask: did you walk after you broke each leg in the first place to reach the second place?
And what is the point to visit 6 places to break each leg?
Are you addicted to pain or something?
I only broke my arm in 1 place. The doctor said i should never go there again.
So i won't
@@markwarne-smith4560
Can't tell if this made my fear of a cut rope better or worse but thoroughness of the testing is always impressive!
I'd name my rope "Knot A Frayed" and hopefully it would inspire me to climb with less fear.
a frayed knot
@@beyondthepale2023a piece of string walks into a bar...
That's amazing!!!
The subscription slo-mo was superb
I almost hit the button and unsubscribed because of the tension
Trippy af
Ben, This kind of failure mode is why cavers are often utterly borderline paranoid with respect to edge friction and rubbing. Sure, we're usually using static lines, so dynamic concerns duly noted, but we're not shy about taking an extra ten minutes (or ten hours, for fixed lines) to set a rigging with the least rope-rub possible for very good reason.
Thank You for spending the time on this one.
I hope we can get some independent testing from someone comparing Edelrid's Protect cut resistance dynamic ropes with this new Mammut line. I understand these manufactures (with a long competitive history) are wary to even mention competitor's products, but it did feel a little weird for them to talk about Edelrid's cut testing method but neglect to mention that Edelrid has already been producing dynamic ropes with aramid for a few years now, and this seems to be Mammut's response. Undoubtedly it's a win to now have multiple manufactures making cut resistant ropes, but it seems like being able to compare them head to head would really push them to make even safer ropes.
Perhaps we have to look to the "How NOT 2" channel testers for cross-brand comparison break tests?
Since 2020 I have had 2 Edelrid Swift Protects, 8.9mm x 70M. I also want to know the cut resistance of Edelrid's rope with aramid.
Excellent video Ben, it was a pleasure to help out on this project with the slow-mo. That said I am now a full time boulder bro haha.
Hahaaa nooooo whyyyy? :DDDD
I call my 9.8mm rope "Hubby" (Husband) because he's reliable and a good catch.
Great vid as always, 4 months was worth the wait! keep it going!
29:00 “Yeah that would suck.” (No other reaction and continues snacking) 😂😂😂
Why didn't they put some mats under our poor science guy like why, there was also that red metal piece he could've fallen on it lmao.
that made me chuckle as well.
Gleipnir is the optimistic rope name I use, Gleipnir was as light and thin as silk but strong as creation itself and made from six impossible ingredients, so quite a good name for a composite rope. In Norse mythology it was used to to bind Fenrir the wolf.
YEEES
I will use that!
thats a great name.
This one has to win! Gleipnir, genius! Forged from women's beards and fish breath.
Great comment!
@@DeShark88 ... sound of a cat's footfall. 3 down, 3 to go ; Wiki is cheating.
Huge props for doing this video! I've always felt like people focus a lot on gear that has a 20:1 safety ratio while the only non-redundant system we use (the climbing rope) can be cut by sliding over an edge the wrong way. This is about as scientific as you can make a test like this
Non-redundant you say? Laughs in double-rope UK trad!
@@DeShark88 Look and ye shall find: Doubles can be cut in the same way-it only works as intended when the climber has proper training and the environment of the climb permits "proper" placement.
Awesome work (despite the obvious fact that it´s Mammut advertising). That being said, what´s more impressive is how important is a good soft catch. I would say that every climbing instructor and every indoor climbing gym owner should see this and teach how to properly soft-catch
Such a pitty that the edelrid Swift protect pro dry wasn't in the video for comparison (it has some aramid fibers woven into the sheath).
PS the glacier cord was breaking lower than it's MBS due to the knots that really should be said in the video I think.
But great work keep it up 👏
+1 about the elderid swift protect,
+1 I was thinking the same!
+1
I mean I can understand why a company that makes ropes will not show a competitor’s rope. If it preforms well than you risk sending business to the competition. If it preforms poorly than it is looked at as crapping on the competition. It’s best to leave that to a third party
1+
Swift protect
I call my rope "God" because it decides whether I get home alive or not.
Anyway, thank you very much for the commitment and time you put into your videos, which are always top quality and very much appreciated by the science nerd in me. Keep going!
My rope deserves a full name, maybe something like Ropert Notfrayed
I love it.
really smart move by mammut.
best advert for a rope ive ever seen haha.
super interesting video but would have really liked to see how the new rope does on the abrasion tests.
Amazing video as always!! Can you tell us more about the video of the whipper that cut through the rope? Who is it? Are they alive? So many questions?!?! (01:39, 15:50 etc)
After years of research, I can now confidentally say that I have found a perfect solution for the rope cutting problem. Step 1 is to not climb slabs. Step 2 doesn't exist.
Rope Name: Ropeunzel, hoping that there will be no other Grimm Tales from using it! Especially apt for my yellow\golden rope!
😂🤣😂🤣
10/10 phenomenal. The balance of curiosity, fun and facts was a masterclass in engineering/design communication. Best video of 2024?
❤ your work man. Thank you
Ah that's cool to read!
This is such a cool video. The context that is necessary to understand why all the components of CoreProtect need to be there was presented so well.
And yes, how all the ropes just *snap* at 3kN tension is super scary. Ugh.
Such a cool video Ben! Thanks man.
You have to love Mammut for so much honesty and passion. Big up Mammut!
A friend of mine just broke their spine and became paralyzed from a rope rubbing on a sharp rock when taking a whip, thank you for the info!
Rope name: Cubia. In my region in italy, "occhi di cubia", was the name for these 2 drawn eyes in front of the boat where were 2 holes where the ropes for the anchors where going through. The fishermans of a century ago were beliving that these 2 eyes could guide the boat and navigate along the right routes, avoiding pitfalls and dangers. So like in climbing you wish ur rope will not snap or get damage to the point of a bad injury. Very Very good video after long time of absence!!
The overlength is super smart. My first thought was some intermediary kevlar sleeve but I figured you'd just need to have some means for it to stay fixed while the nylon stretched into an "unprotected zone". You only really need the cut resistant fabric at a fixed point where the pressure is being applied. But obviously friction between the layers wouldn't really allow the nylon to stretch properly, so this is a really neat solution
So nice to see old-school climbing videos of Montserrat at the beginning 🙂
Ropey McRopeface is really the only correct way to name a rope!
Amazing video by the way, the production value is incredible!
I jummared up to the bivy ledge on leaning tower in the dark a while back (from the top of the second pitch to the bivy at the top of the fourth). Slow climbers infront of us prevented my partner and I from climbing as quickly as needed, but they agreed to fix our haul rope so we could jug it rather than waiting for them to finnish. Unfortunately the rope was fixed over an unseen edge in the dark. I started ascendingt by lowering out 40ft from the wall and procedded to jumar 150 ft up to the point where the rope passed over the lip (about 30 down from the ledge) , and when I got there the sheath was 90% cut. I saw this not quite understanding it, but was able to detach one of my ascenders and place it above the damage about the same time I fully understood how lucky id been. Spent the next few minutes saftley nestle on the bivy ledge repeating the scene from Eiger Saction. In an Austrian accent - "there was a frayed end in your rope, I was just cutting it out"
That's awfully terrifying.
There are so many people working there with so much love for detail and for the sport and to make sport safer for all of us...I would call it heart core.
Damn, what a production.
Thanks to everyone supporting this guy!!!
production level, easily digestible information (originating very technical concepts), the walkthrough on the history of ropes/materials, entertainment value, real life applications, etc... 100/10 !! You've outdone yourself on this by far. This is the kind of content that truly reaches and teaches people. Thank you!
this video has had the most impact emotionally for me, in 2018 I watched as my top rope sheath opened up when i pendulumed just below the ledge near the top of the route. I want cut resistant ropes for single pitch and top rope climbing now. Call it, Stinky Slinky or Pink Panther
When I trad climb I use two half ropes. Less rope drag, shorter falls, longer rappels.
two ropes share the load when falling and force acting on the rope was one of the most important factor on how much it could resist cutting. Two thinner ropes with 2KN each might be better than a single thicker rope at 4KN. This rabbit hole goes deeper
Yes actually out of all reported accidents there is only few cases where both strands of double ropes failed.
So it's much safer.
That doesn’t quite work.
With half rope technique, you don’t (normally) load them both equally. At best, you are clipping alternately left and right. So when you fall, the rope you last clipped takes all the force, unless you fall far enough that some load comes onto the other rope.
Twin ropes technique, where the load distribution will be much closer to equal, and therefore about half what of the load on a single rope would be, might offer an advantage.
Now that many ropes are double or triple certified, you can find a slightly thicker rope, that is still rated for twin rope use.
@@tjb8841 Ah but still, odds of a rope running over an edge and cutting during a fall, maybe 0.25% (One in 400 falls, tbh it's probably less than that). Odds of two ropes running over two edges and cutting during a fall would be 0.25% squared, or 0.0006% (One in 160,000 falls).
@@HardIsEasy as you can clip both ropes intoonly one quickdraw (twinrope technique) or in seperate ones (halfrope technique), i am pretty sure mostly both strands failed, wenn people clipped them parallel in the same carabiner, pulling the rope over the same edges, or being hit by a single rock fall.
That´s why i like clipping the second rope into other quickdraws. usually one to the right and one to the left.
Not sure if at all a accident happend this way yet.
I bring my half ropes together wherever I can and tend to split them only when needed. It takes some care to think about not dying in a fall as well as solving the technical problems right in your face. Old climbers are the ones who worked out the balance :)
You never fail to deliver with the level of detail and analysis you do. As a professional data product manager I can say you nail it when it comes to research analysis.
Oh and for a rope name, "Bo Dangles"
Another awesome and informative video Ben! I enjoy you channel immensely, looking forward to your next vid!
I was a pro tree climber for 22 years, in the N Bay Area. First time I have seen a video like this. Thank you very much, people in this field need documentation to aid decision-making about safety in products.
The name of my rope is "Weather Forecast" because it always lets me down
You again managed to amaze me with your video! Loved it :)
Do you or Mammut have data about the cutting resistance of two half ropes? They are more likely to seen in multipitching where the sharp rocks are. And again, very nice video! Thanks for your work with Mammut. My Rope is called Richi. The Swiss people will understand :D
The mammut granite edge test would be interesting with double or twin ropes. Best case scenario, the load is distributed equally in both ropes, which would significantly improve the cut resistance.
This was not only well done but also between Mammut being so open it makes me want to support their efforts also I think that when it comes to safety that type of information should be shared in this manner so keep up the good work and I hope many people support you all in making better rope and sharing the results with climbers and being a part of the community!!!
I actually named my Mammut crag dry "Risikolebensversicherung" (term life insurance) though after watching this video I'm kinda second guessing this decision haha. My Zopa has yet to be named, I'm open for suggestions. :D
Also thank you so much for your amazing work. Always amazed!
Another amazingly well done video, super fun to watch and *very* informative. Last week I purchased a Edelrid rope with the protect technology and was thinking about this sort of things since then, this video was the nicest thing I could expect from UA-cam (thanks to you), felt like receiving a gift. Thanks a lot
ah thank you a lot!
Thank you for this excellent video ... for science, and climbers' lives!
While I was living in South Africa, there was a terrible climbing accident where a female climber survived the fall but was swinging around under an overhang, in the wind. As she swung, the rope was moving back and forth over a gently curved edge. Rescue was not possible for various reasons and she had no way of ascending the rope. Slowly, as she shouted for assistance and people watched, helpless, the rope wore away and she eventually fell to her death as it cut through. I have never forgotten this: chillingly, as she realised that no help was possible and the rope was wearing through, she stopped shouting and went silent, making her peace and waiting for the end.
This is simply the biggest step forward in rope design in a generation.
Congratulations Mammut! I've used their ropes for years; they've always been my favourite.
I was climbing in southern England recently and my rope was bent over a rock edge approximately as sharp as the granite in the final tests in the video. I was not happy! I changed from a relatively bold climber into a gibbering mess, largely because I had no realistic sense of how dangerous a fall would be, but I felt it would not be good!
I would buy one of these ropes in a heartbeat, and in 10.2 mm!
Mammut only make them 8 mm and 9.5 mm at the moment, but I think a lot of climbers would be very happy with the extra security of a 'core protect' 10.2 mm.
This kind of thing is why cavers are often utterly borderline paranoid with respect to edge friction and rubbing.
Why didn’t the belayer lower her ?
@@d.s.4297
Very good question. I don't know the precise circumstances, but the story is true as far as I know; some trusted climbing friends told me.
@@d.s.4297 There are some pitches that are almost exactly one rope length long-when climbing them one must always be able to ascend the rope. The belay side of the rope also could have become jammed, preventing lowering.
Technically anyone lead climbing should know how to ascend the rope and self-rescue, but almost no-one ever bothers to bring the required pieces of accessory cord with them. Since they don't practice, and don't bring the cordage anyway, the knowledge fades and I don't think I need say any more than that.
This is really cool for Mammut to bring us in and see everything. I really appreciate that they share the knowledge - and the shortcomings of the industry and how honest they are with how difficult it is to test for everything well as well as showing their attempts and covering the issues they experienced. It really shows they care about their customer's safety and how seriously they take their rope engineering. With all this information out there, there's bound to be someone who may see this and come up with a better standardized test for some of these hard to solve cases. Thank you Hard Is Easy and Mammut!
The video quality is amazing, thank you for all your work!
Name it Mammut 😎
Would have loved to see a comparison to 'unicore' style ropes as well!
I have been waiting so long for a new video! Amazing one as always!
This is great content (as always), thanks for putting in the time to make these.
I go for shoelace.. :D
It would be quite interesting how a double/twin rope would behave in the drop test over the edge.. very interesting video!
My ropes name is Alex Honnold.
sometimes when i mention i’m taking it climbing my friends get overly curious and excited, couldn’t figure out why.
awesome production quality as always, and an amazingly interesting story. cannot wait to get my hands on this new rope!
Thank you very much and thank Mammut for all these tests and explanations !! Amazing job !
After watching your video I will now name my rope : "safety string "
I named the climbing rope the ✨Summit Sausage✨
As usual, great content presented in a great way. These series of videos increased my gear knowledge times fold and I'm super thankful for that!
What a great way to market a new product. Not saying that in a bad way either - all this info and such amazing production value and ALSO showing a new product which directly combats this problem. So cool
my rope is called "knot today gravity" hopefully this always stays true 😅
I guess mmmh "Mr. Soft Catch" is a great name
Thank you for your exceptionally comprehensive and professional work Ben, please keep it up!
Yet another in Ben's series of doctorate level research into climbing. This is exactly why I patreon you and recommend everyone who can afford it (really it's just the price of a cup of coffee per month) to do so. Invaluable!
The ropes name has to be Freya! She may fray, but she won’t break 😅
Here is a name for your rope: Knot a Problem
This was a fascinating video, very well scripted and edited and produced, and highly informative. Thanks.
This was such an informative and captivating video. I've never even thought about any of this stuff before. The pacing was spot on dude 👍
Obi-Wan. It's my only rope
Arborists buy monster static ropes because of the abrasive environment.
Thank you! I have wondered about the new Mammut rope.
Your videos have helped me enjoy climbing due to the confidence I now have in my gear. Thank you!
Wow! This was incredibly well done and super interesting!! Tysm for this 🙏
Woah, big kudos for putting this together! Amazing content.
Amazing :) I am happy that all my 4 ropes are Mammut and you have convinced me. I am looking forward to change my current 70m rope soon with an 80m 9.5 Core Protect :D
Fantastic episode, I feel like this should get some sort of an award.
The best placed, most valueable advertisement in the history of the climbing industry. I'll buy such rope, for sure.
Hey, I just want to say thank you. Firstly for all your great videos, I have really learned a lot about climbing and have become a better climber and above all a safer climber, a better belayer.
This whole video series in cooperation with Mammut has also turned out really, really well. Even though I used to rely on products from other companies, I really have to praise them for devoting so much time and resources to your videos. I find it very exciting to see how they test and develop their products. So thank you Ben, thank you Mammut and thank you to everyone who was involved in the background on camera, editing and creating the videos.
awesome work, really interesting as usual ! thank you very much for the sharing
This was solid work man. Well done!
Always very interesting info. Thank you!
What an excellent amazing superb video! Congratulations for the science, the editing, the whole of it!
You, sir, are producing some of the most important climbing science content of modern times. This video is simply incredible. Thank you for all your hard work.
wow excellent video once again! this information feels so vital to understanding safety in falling, much much more than simply breaking strength
Thank you very much for the hard work.
It was realy full of new and old stuff to reconsider.
The "sharp" edge is sometimes, on first sight, very dull.
Loved it!
Excellent video, I've learned so much in just 40 mins, this is quality content!
Mammut did a great job..thank you.
Congrats Ben a great video again!!! Watched 100% at normal speed!!! ❤ I will call my rope « Nun Cho Ga » as it is name of the first intact baby mammoth found in North America, thanks to thousands of years of permafrost freeze.
Thank you for your work, diving ever so deeply into climbing science to raise awareness and make us safer !
Very, very interresting. As usual.
Thank you very much !
That was a really great video documentary about the technology aspects of modern time rope solutions.
Thanks for all work, Nice information
Reilly the reliable rope.
This video was such an entertaining way to present science. Great work!
Fantastic show, thank you!
This was scary and also reassuring. Thanks for the great deep dive into abrasion resistance and rope dynamics!
Excelente vídeo. Un gran trabajo¡
With regards to whether the tests can be reused elsewhere. Mammut needs to reach out to the sandpaper industry to find out 1) how they measure the accuracy of the grit on their paper, and 2) how to consistently represent that roughness. They do have standards for the roughness of the papers (termed grit) and need to have a way to test that.
It seems to me that you can keep the same geometry of the test shape, but swap out to the granite for an equivalent amount (or average) grit in sandpaper. That would allow the test to be more universal and describable so others can test the rope.
Nice video! Perfect infotainment/docutainment :))
The amount of time You put into these are crazy. Even though I don't really care about ropes, it caught my attention and watched it from beginning till the end without distractions.
BRASIL!
amazing video, thanks again for your work
Well done ! Educational and entertaining.
"Rock Rope". My son and his wife are rock climbers in Colorado, and he used to teach it. He has a collection of ropes from over the years that he no longer uses. I so much want to show him this video. Back in my sailing days I investigated the idea of using Kevlar (R) line for standing rigging, no stretch. Using loose aramid/Kevlar came as a shock to me, but it makes sense. At work, I used Kevlar sleeves to protect my forearms from cuts and scrapes. The sleeves are essentially soft tube socks knitted using eight individual strands. It's good stuff, and the individual fibers look to have been run at high speed through a heater, which causes the fiber to take on a crinkle, which makes it grab sister fibers so as not to slip in the thread, a little stretch, and soft.