An Example of How Broken the MTG Arena Shuffler Appears to Be
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- Here's a deep dive into the shuffler in MTG Arena, research that has been done to prove it's unfair, and an example of a disaster of a game.
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I swear the shuffler gets worse with every major game update. It's like they aren't even trying to hide that it is rigged at this point.
They dont know how to fix it and I suspect they went to a new programer company instead of a major well known contracter like CD project Red or another tripple A company
To me, on best of 3, it ALWAYS handicaps one of the players in the first two matches.
In the first match, the algo will destroy your hand and draw, while your opponent is a beast. The second match, it's the exact opposite, you get mana weaving, a perfect hand, and no mulligan, and your opponent cannot even breathe. The last match, you are both buffed for an epic battle. Every single time this sh**.. This is no MTG, this is a f*** simulator.
Am I crazy?!
It also begs the question, Are the pros really the best in the game or are they given that?
Are there any Free to Play Mythic ranked? None of the top players openly discuss the hundreds they drop on every set...
@@JewelerC wait dude i am several times mythic player free TP not hard to make expensive control deck there i dont see any strugle to gather gold, i even got much of crystals by playing draft. i dont buy pet stuff or other style stuff i did only bolas avatar and coz i have more then 100k gold . dont craft every deck try to stick to few of what you want
but shuffler makes me scream sometimes
i just got 5 packs for mythic and gold and some card styles if your winrate is above 50% you will get mythic
3 Zenith Flare in 4 turns.... ugh, that makes me want to puke.
tbf hes cycling half his deck
@@kaiseremotion854 Late comment, but games I've played today I've drawn 4 doomskar in a row. Another game i drew 3 in a row. I can more often than not draw 3 starnheim unleashed in 4 draws. This happens all the time. I'm at the point where I forget half the cards in my angel token deck because I never see them.
At least with cycling decks the shuffler can punish with less land draws, what about Dimir control and White Aggro?
I noticed when I get two of the same land in my opening hand I know that I will most likely not draw any more lands for at least 4 turns.
This, it´s so disgusting when the game does it, I used to run 2 faceless havens in my izzet deck and now I only run one (and really starting to think about getting rid of it too), case the shuffler kept giving me those two lands in the opening hand. since the lands are colorless and I get no other good stuff in the hand I get put on a vulnerable position for the whole duel.
The Shuffler can also F you by putting graveyard eff cards like Brokkos at the bottom of your deck when facing miller decks.
Ofc the players can still beat the shuffler by creating foolproof decks with higher drawing power, cheap effective spells and good land range, but that takes time
The amount of games I lose strictly due to the shuffler giving me only 2 lands of the same color even through 3 mulligans. Then consistently draw either only lands or all my low cost removal that would allow me to catch up are in the bottom of the deck.
I decided that if the game doesn't want me to draw lands, I'll just play 4 llanowar elves, 4 elvish mystic, 4 leafkin druids and play all my 5 drops on turn 3 with 1 land on the battlefield.
I don't mind being beat by a better deck. I HATE being beaten by the game because the shuffler is so broken. I have 30 screenshots of how bad it's been since I started tracking it 2 months ago. 2 lands on the battlefield, and I'm holding a playset. It's ridiculous.
TLDR Version: You are playing a game that LOOKS and FEELS like paper magic, however it isn't because the RNG and deck implementation, among other things - (likely) aren't correct. Should be called Magic: The Gathering - Simulator.
Seems like their RNG and deck modelling are designed to have outcomes that are 'better for the user experience'. It would be like playing Blackjack in vegas where the shoe is stacked to have certain outcomes like more blackjacks(or fewer), while containing the same cards within.
That's exactly what it is and it is intentionally designed that way. So they can say its not broken and report on how every deck has balanced 55% win rates increasing by amount of gems spend.
Not to mention that Arena has some cards in its "Standard" that either do not exist in paper or have rotated out.
This is exactly what I suspect. It feels like the game has pre-simulated outcomes every match and the player who matches that simulated outcome the closest wins. Doesn't seem normal at all with all the top decking removals at the exact time certain creatures hit the board or become threats.
Seriously play with the free player deck with Terror of the Peaks. Whenever that card hits the board 9/10 times it shows up when the other player already has removal for it. Or it appears after the game is basically lost.
@@stoiccrane4259 If there´s removal you gotta bait it beforehand
@@stoiccrane4259 yeap, it is also affecting deck design, I'm seeing more and more search mechanics on Arena decks just bypass the shuffler.
As someone who quit arena due to standard's power lvl: I believe that releasing the info on how to 'cheat' will get enough people using it that the devs will be forced to address the issue even if its just behind the scenes, this would also be about sending a message to WotC to fix their shitty metagame and policies.
10 months later: EVEN MORE b r o k e n
@@maximumdunk2656 I know right I hate it so much. Try playing a mon red aggro deck with an avrg cost of 1.3 and never gettings a 3rd land while the black white angel deck is hitting prefect mana curves.
@@spectate0074 I hate White Aggro so much right now, they now have a BS creature that when summoned on Turn F***ing 2 can raise up the cost of all your oponent´s spells by 1 colorless mana, this is BS since it easily sets me back one turn if permanent removal is available, but there are a ton of cards that can offer it protection in White decks so I can get stuck with it for 3 more turns and lose the game once the angels and enchantments start coming
@@spectate0074 6 red aggros right now with enchantment and monk first few turns LITERALY same
doesnt they get 2 mana and 5 draws with play with fire and lightning strike ? why everyone is same oppening
grixis control here with alot of life gain stuff to survive aggros
Honestly, this is why I refuse to actually put any more money into MTG Arena and I am changing to entirely F2P....I already have a decent collection built up, there's no way I am sinking anymore money into this game when the shuffler feels so broken
Commenting a year later here to say this. It looks like these days, in Brawl, if you include a new card in your deck, you are more likely to draw it on the first few games after you put it in. If you win several games in a row, or win a couple very fast (under some number of turns), on the next game it will mana-screw you EXTREMELY hard, like in a super statistically unlikely one-in-a-billion draw half the lands in your deck in a row kind of way. If you manage to win that mana-screw game, your deck gets put into the top-tier brawl queue with decks like Golos, Esika etc for a couple games. If you lose to those, you will find yourself against janky commanders again. Seems like a very human-directed flowchart to me.
Like, I can't overstate how unlikely it is I draw literally 12 lands in a game where I get to have 8 turns. I can't overstate how unlikely it is that in a 100-card deck, after putting in ONE new card, that THREE starting hands in a row have that card after mulligan-ing the first ones.
Something to add that I have notice. The more money you put into arena the more the game gives you what you want. I realized this when I spent about +$100 and started to go on a major winning streak. I made to top 200 players from platinum in 5 days. After x days it went back to normal-ish win/lose. Now I know that could be just well I got really lucky and my skills improved. So I tried putting money in Arena at different times at different amounts. And yep Arena rewards you for more money you spend.
O I believe you. I tested my "Mana awkward" deck which I'm hoping is confusing the shuffler, I ll win the first 5-6 and then while being paired against a meta deck for the next dozen games (and lose), I'll either see only two lands the entire game or only ever draw land. It's a deck that draws and searches, how is getting a third or fourth land so hard, not to mention on unranked too. I've opened 2-3 Rex a couple games in a row. And yes it's a janky deck but y am I only ever playing against four color lotus decks or sultai control. It really does feel like it's rigged.
This is exactly what happens to me. I win those amonts of rounds first, in a row, and I'll start to lose every single games i enter. Why? Because I either draw zero lands, start with way to many lands in my hand, or only draw lands continuosly non stop. (I start with to many lands because if I mulligan my starting hand, I will still get like 4-5 lands and useless starting cards.
Increase the drawing power, if you are running versatile spells like Command spells you are probably also getting good advantage.
@@oddvar_4131 You gotta focus on more scry effs then, if the lands arent coming naturally, you could artificially raise the odds of drawing lands with scrying effs.
Seeing this make me remember when i got 5 land from inspired ultimatum
I called it quits on arena today after my opponent top decked 2 full sets of soul warden and prosperous innkeeper ramping up an ajani. I wasn't drawing any of the 12 removal cards in my deck. That was the most ridiculous example, but it's a trend I've seen after playing for a while. Repeatedly top decking a card I've removed or they have removed from me. There's definitely a financial incentive to increase the frequency of these idiotic draws. When you get screwed hard like that your first instinct is to build a better deck, for which you're probably going to need packs. I get it's a business but gameplay is utterly ridiculous now.
I can confirm this, the Shuffler will mess up your removal spell draw odds against white Aggro, this is why I now run 4x Jwari disruption, so I can counter the BS white creature that raises the cost of all non creature spells from oponent to +1. This BS effs are getting worse at least with the white enchantment class, you could only raise the costs during your own turn.
Yep i play Magic not even two months and i can say for 100 % sure that both the match maker and shuffler is rigged to hold you around 50 %, and you can only "break through it" with OP cards and decks, at least for some time.
For example i made a lurrus enchantment orzhov deck a month ago.
First x rounds I was CRUSHING opponents.
I literally went from silver rank (maybe even bronze not sure but i was low) to platinum rank 2 in one afternoon (then you know the smack down was real)
Red aggro, gtfo
Dimir mill GTFO
Mono white , just surrender and give me the rank bro
I had over 80 % win ratio, damn good right
And then the next day arrived ....
Only getting weird mass removal, ramp to ugin, or similar crap.
Dimir , Red aggro and other meta decks suddenly didnt exist in the qeue anymore, didnt get a single one for the next 3 days of play.
Regulary had to mulligan 3 times to get 2 lands in a 23 land deck (19 normal + 4 double sided)
Starting hand either gets creatures + 1 land or 2 lands, or all enchantments and no creature (23 creatures in deck).
If i get Hateful Eilodon i dont get any dead weight or Mires grasp in the entire round (i have 8 in total)
If i get mires grasp or dead weight i only get them, and i dont see any Hateful Eidolon in 10 + turns
If i get creatures in the opening hand i suspiciously get no 1 or 2 mana cost creature (which are like 85 % of all creatures in the deck)
OR i get mirror match, I have to mulligan 3 times to get something, while the opponent starts with 2 Hateful Eidolons and a couple of dead weights and i get hand size and board dominated on turn 2...then he magically drew a third Eidolon on turn 4, and I almost smashed my keyboard.
Its almost as if Wizzards says " you see how good your deck can work, oh wait ,we wont give you a semi decent starting hand trololol".
My win ratio plumetted from 80+ % to barely 45 %...and guess what, I suddenly get the question "did you have fun", i say "no" , an what I get next round, an effing Dimir mill i squash in 10 minutes, i get to 50 % win ratio .
I get few more wins, reach 60 % guess what again the same crap happens, only ramp to Ugin/yorion with a gazzilion of board wipes and no early or even mid play creatures.
So yeah if someone says to me this isnt rigged i dont know man...
And before someone says "oH lOOK a CoNspiRacy Nut reMove tIN FOiL hAt" please stfu, i ply a little known ww2 themed online card game called "KARDS" for over a year and ive NEVER seen such BS in 1000s of rounds, yes bad hand can happen , will happen but what is happening in Arena is a complete joke.
And to add insult to injury the game even asks you "did you have fun" from time to time to bolster up the matchmaker ingame algorithm, so if you say "yes" you get royally screwed, or "no" o and given a "sparky mode" opponent that get land screwed/mana flooded, so you get a win.
The rigging is real, and if it was a game in Vegas, this game would be banned in Vegas for violation of Nevada Gaming Commission law
I remember a few yrs ago someone proved in CoD MW or maybe CW that Activision rigged matches and guaranteed easy matches for people that bought micro transactions and as long as you continued doing so you'd get easy wins. Got these vibes earlier on my like 8th maybe 9th day playing MtG Arena how I oddly have started getting meta met decks every match now that my "paid time Starter kit/packs purchase" has run out. For the passed week I was winning like almost every game with free duel decks I was unlocking everyday......shit is 100% rigged and I don't need anyone's research to see the shit lol.
I see its been 2 years. I've deleted the game a year ago, tried it again and I somewhat enjoy drafting but litterally 6/7 games are won by either my opponent that is manascrewed or me. Its insane. I deleted it again and won't be playing it for damn while. The shuffler is incredibly broken still.
The match making being rigged annoys me more honestly getting the same matchups over and over cause of certain cards in your deck. Ran Teferi Toots to beat on sultai control never get matched against it now. That’s the only thing I matched when I was strictly UB control, sultai control and simic mutate ugin ramp were my only match ups.
Now I’m UB teferi toots and all my matches are toot mirrors in different color combos UW UR ect. Or str8 UW control haven’t seen any of the decks I adjusted to anticipate it seems like you never can cause it always finds a different matchup.
Sometimes I get mirror matches, but the Algorithm realizes he flex those up, so now it sets me up with White aggro most of the time
Btw, I'm pretty sure those modal lands get counted like spells for the shuffler. Meaning it will ditch hands with them in it because they arent 'land' in its eyes.
Just today I played a game where I got mana screwed, but could still play a card every turn due to my cards low cost, and I was up against a blue control deck that played all four copies of his brazen borrower card to bounce my creatures back to me within the first 5 to 6 turns of the game. That's just broken, but I see stuff like this all the time and also the other stuff Desolator is talking about in his video. The Shuffler being rigged, the hands assistance, the like cards being grouped together, being first or second several times in a row. My god Wizards should be sued over this stuff. Maybe someone will eventually crack the game's code and release it and Wizards and Hasbro will be taken to the cleaners. I just want fair randomized games and legit mtg experience. Here's a thought Wizards, if's not okay for high level tournament play then it should not be okay for regular games either.
One year later and the same crap is till happening.
Shuffler? No It's a STACKER. I won't call it a shuffler.
I honestly don’t know why 100% random shuffling is so fucking hard for them to do
I had multiple games straight where I went 10+ turns on 4 mana... out of 35 lands, plus MRs and Card Draws.
Normally my deck runs near 50% w/l. The last 3 days, I had 5w/30l with almost all of them being mana screws.
Feb 2021 Card Clumping, and Mana Drought/Flooding are still a regular thing.
Don't spend money.
@@joaogrrr I haven't ... was tempted to spend 7 bucks on the welcome pack that came with gems ... but the game is broken so no I'm not going to spend money ... so basically it's a free game and paying (nothing) what I'm getting. Just a couple days ago, I went 5 straight games with Mana Flooding (5-8 lands in a row).
Fun and interactive arena game I played recently:
T2 Lotus Cobra, I counter it
T3 Lotus Cobra, I counter it
T4 double Lotus Cobra, i got no counters left.
Needless to say I lost that game
I once went against monoblack decks three games in a row and managed to see ten murderous riders from my opponents in those matches. None of those matches went past turn seven either.
Something else I have noticed. Playing my Historic elves deck I am so goddam frequently matched up against some form of mono red aggro that always is on the play and always seemingly has 800 burn spells to take care of every creature of mine that hits the field AND is able to still deal lethal damage to me in less than 5-6 turns...so I have begun to just concede the games in historic unranked where I am on the draw and my opponent is on the play....and after about 50 games I have yet to go up against a form of mono red aggro where I am on the play, almost as if the matchmaking system favors mono red aggro on the play against my historic elves deck...hrrrrrrmmmmm...
i noticed that too!!!! not the same type but yes, blue black i noticed, literally the same deck ill play back to back to back to back....and im like wtf, so i change my deck after getting nice and annoyed and wowwwwwwwwwwwwww no more blue black of that saaaaaaame deck. coincidence? i dont think so.
I've built standard decks, in paper, that only ran 16 lands. The deck could comfortably run on 3 lands, and with scrying and redraws it worked out. That doesn't mean that variance didn't happen, some games is just be getting started at the end of the game, since I only had 2 lands. Some games, I'd flood out. The only deck I've ever played with less is my brother's old druid deck that ran 12, but got away with it due to mana dorks and glimpse of nature.
This is why I now use like 21 normal lands and 8 spell lands, the shuffler is so rigged you sometimes need around 50% lands to ensure a fair drawing chance.
@@sebas8225 26 swamps in my black mono, to abuse matchmaking and redraws, 1 in 10 games gives you to much, but for 9 others you are GOLD
Lol i thought i was the only one who noticed how often i would not go first and how it forces you to lose.
I Guess the game Is Like Jumanji , It thinks , It adjusts , It fixs.
There is something very strange going on with the shuffler when it comes to the new backside land cards in ZR. If you run a bunch of those it seems like people get mana screwed way, way more often than normal. I think they don't know how to count them or something and so the "hand assistant" isn't running right. I don't know what's going on exactly, but I'd love for someone to investigate it.
That's exactaly what is happening to me. 23 lands in the deck, which 4 are ZR backside cards. Most of the games I have troubles to get the third land. I drop playing because of that shitty shuffler.
Today 02/03/2023 I took 19 lands from a deck with 22 lands before I could get any effective cards, I managed to defend myself because my deck is defensive in 0/4 creatures. In the next game it was worse, 10 turns I took 10 lands, I gave up and uninstalled the game. This game is all fucked up, anyone with even the slightest I.Q. realize that the game favors the other player when you start winning consecutively.
I also requested the feature of showing the amount of 'start first' to the games trackers and even when they didn't explicitly say it, they won't do it. My guess is they know the situation (by the amount of data they have) and wizards forbid them to disclose it.
I don't know about you, but I play until I hit 15 wins pretty much every day, and I've gone WEEKS without playing first in a single game before. Having tracked it for several months now I get a kick out of how I only go first about 1 in 8 games.
@@kennethrawson3005 You get screwed once you hit 10 wins
My biggest gripe about Arena is the crazy amount of mirror matches. If you play aggro, you will be up against aggro. Mill, against mill, ect. That makes it feel way less like paper Magic.
I kinda do enjoy some mirror matches though, it´s easy to see through the flaws of one´s own archetype through seeing other variations being played. If it´s a 100% copy of the deck I´m playing thats when it gets boring
A year later, this still f**king happens!!
Well, I thing they die something to the shuffler. After days of playing a good working Scute Swarm deck I noticed that yesterday I could not get the Cobra, Scute Swarm and Omnath together in a sigle game. And I played over three hours and over 15 games. Also a Genesis Ultimatum only pulled lands and not a single creature. I could not get lands and landfall creatures together. It was only lands or only creatures in every game.
I have zero Idea why they can't just use a random shuffler
In my track that happens to me, a low amount of 'start first' and the group big cards. It is so weird the group of big cards, I have in one deck 3 cards with CMC of 6 or more and always those cards are together and close to the beginning of the game.
Been playing draft this morning and ALL the matches that I lost is due to the fact I got stuck with only two lands. The two lands on my opening hand. And I never found a land after that. 17 lands and 23 spells. Arena SUCKS!
3 years later and the brokenness is still going strong.. i was on a win streak, I started a game with 2 lands, my opponent naturally dropped his 10th land before I got my third.. one of many examples..
Do you Think there’s any chance they screw with your games if you have never spent money in game? I have two different account and iv slightly noticed On my account that I have spent no money on that in my drafts and other events I tend to get man screwed way more often or hit all of my high CMC cards consecutively in comparison to my account that I’ve spent over $1000 on. My account that iv spent money on always seams to get better pulls from pack, better hands, and all around better experience.
Found ways around the shuffler, but people arent gonna like them.
1-Use more Dual lands, or Spell Lands (including creature lands) to compensate for lack of basic land drops.
2-Raise the number of drawing card spells in your deck, or get versatile spells that include a drawing eff option, the Shuffler wont be able to prevent you from getting both in your hand (assuming you running reasonable numbers).
3-Be aware of using Scry effs to compensate for poor shuffling, a Expressive iteration, for instance, will almost never get you just spells on the scry or lands (assuming you balanced out the deck)
4-Have a vast array of cheap spells to prolong the duel and avoid having the shuffler deliver you just high mana cost cards
No surprise really. In a way Arena now delivers the most authentic MtG experience as not only it is about cards, luck and skill but also the ability to cheat and exploit the system, just like in the highest level pro tournaments. Only difference being how you cheat in paper vs digital.
Duplicate a deck and rename one of them. Go back and forth using the two decks.
I do this, It will work best when you keep adding cards to your deck.
i swear brazen borrower is only drawn in groups of 3 or 4 if the opponent has one he has two more often than not
Your probability assumes the shuffling algorithm known as Fisher-Yates, which is pure random permutation. Idk what kind of shuffling algorthim that MTGArena uses but it should be Fisher-Yates based.
they're using the If-You-Play-Well-We-Give-You-Worse-Cards algorithm
According to Chris Clay in this www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/agjqkg/chris_clay_about_mtga_shuffler/ thread: "To shuffle decks in MTG Arena we use Fisher-Yates, pulling numbers from a Merseene Twister (MT199937), which is seeded with 256 cryptographically secure randomized bits".
Knowing WoTC, it's more Fisher-Price.
Three years later..... still broken.
I've noticed if you are playing and you keep winning, they will make you lose one, then next game give you the perfect hand, then next game you'll lose, it always does this.
Bruh when I get butt hurt I just concede lol
Prepared to be pissed about the ban announcement.
100% agreed. Another Interesting thing that has happened to me a bunch of times is that I will win 2 or 3 in a row then they will put me up against someone a full rank below me with a trash deck and just give me an absolute garbage draw and give them a gods gift opening hand and gods gift draw the entire game. This happen to anyone else??
Des - i must say you have pretty well hit the nail on the head here. The only thing i didn't hear you cover is the fact that they do in fact have undisclosed bots that they throw you up against as opponents. Going first is not a zero sum equation if they are allowing their house bots to take first play in order to suppress a live player. In fact no live player ever has to get more than a 50% go first rate. It's just another control implemented by the house.
House bots makes it even MORE like poker, right?
Yeah I had a game earlier today where I am literally splashing red for one card I run 8 mountains and 14 plains and 2 duel lands and proceed to have a duel land as my only white source in my opening hand and two mountains and draw nothing but mountains until after turn 6 against an Agro deck and had I seen even one plains I most definitely would have won.
it''s rigged proof: this happened to me... drawing 5 lands in a row... drawing no lands for 5 turn in a row, seeing the exact same starting hand two game in row LOL
This is so rigged in favor of Blue mana it´s not even funny. Want more drawing power? Blue. Want scrying so you dont get shit draws? Blue. Want extra turns? Blue. Want more control? Blue
Arena is broken and Arena's official response to shuffler is "it is working as intended". In other words they don't give a shit. I remember another game that had issues like this with hit issues server side and that was the response for many people complaining to them about there poor software, that game is now gone, no longer about, lets hope magic the gathering arena make the shuffler a true random shuffler rather than the CRAP they have and use. UNTIL then its not worth playing online at best a zero of ten stars game. Only good for looking at cards and what they do.
F MTGA. Play with real cards only.
After watching this and reading various other sites, I made a deck with 13 lands low cost cards and won 5 out of 6 games, Reduced it to 7 lands and won 2 of 5, reduced it to two lands and it finally started playing like a deck without lands. this type of thing should not happen. For me it makes online magic not worth a cent after finding out they fix deals and stack decks and call it balancing.
I fully expect something like this to show up: "TODAYS MtG NEWS: MtG cards found to contain dangerous levels of asbestos, arsenic and lead", given the current quality of the game.
hi does someone know if it's still rigged up to this day?
2 years later and it's still a joke.
How us this not addressed? The game is unplayable.
I believe that the two hand at the beginning assist only happens in best of one now, to try and prevent a bad game since you won't get a chance to run it back to redeem yourself.
Bull, it´s made to trick you into a false sense security, used to use 2x faceless haven with snow basic lands in my deck, but eventually the shuffler decided to give me 2 faceless havens consecutively in my opening hand and poor land quality from there on out. The game´s algorithm can punish you on opening hand and force you to mulligan for better odds, also happened to me with cycling decks
Please link the source claiming to have shown that the shuffler is broken.
www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/b21u3n/i_analyzed_shuffling_in_a_million_games/
My theory? If you give money to the game, you get better draw.
I don't give money to them, things that happen to me 20% of the time (mana short, too much land, always only 2 lands in my hand if I start, etc.). Happen like to 1% of my opponents.
EDIT: Forgot to say that sometime, Sometime I don't start like 8 games in row.
It's incredible how much worse my draws are on Arena compared to my draws on paper with the same f deck. I have NEVER got 0 or 1 land in the opening hand on paper (23 lands, 60 cards), yet on Arena this happens every 2 games? How's that? They're forcing me to mulligan or what?
I rarely start a game with 3 lands. out of 10 games 1 of them start with 3 lands, it's ridiculous. if you start with 2 lands you need to keep your hand even if it means playing 5 turns or more with 2 lands, because making a muligan can be even worse, in addition to starting with fewer cards you run the risk of having 2 lands or even 1 land in hand. So that player who plays with red aggro literally wins in the first turns with no chance to defend himself against blue control as you can't put anything effective into play before he gets enough lands to nullify his entire game quietly.
My 60 card deck runs three 4-mana cards (and nothing above).
I've *never* seen two of these 4-mana cards in my starting hand at all.
I've seen plenty of multiples with my other 3-ofs, never the high-mana cards.
I though that for years, it's incredible at what point it's rigged... for so many reasons too.
that for example an angel deck, add 4 random card that don
i NEED to run 30 fucking lands in every deck or i get mana screwed like every game. it is actually insane.
being regularly stuck on 3/4 lands when there are TWENTY-EIGHT FUCKING LANDS in the deck makes me want to blow up the world.
This is made on purpose since wizards, wants you to use Creature lands and spell lands as a complement to your deck. Had to limit Faceless Haven to 1 per deck the shuffler considered the card so broken, it punishes you for only having one, just like it punishes only having 1 Brokkos in mutate decks against millers. Point being you gotta make a deck the shuffler cant just trash easily with bad draws
screw arena, I just had 9 games in a row where I only drew swamps, its a black/white deck. so stupid.
Could you post your deck lists in the description? I’m new and I would just like to have more decks to play.
Also yeah I’ve had many games where I pull like 8 lands in a row or opening hands with 3 of the same card over and over again.
I didnt draw a land for 6 turns from the first 2. So yeah it was fun...
I can literally play 20 lands with a 84 card deck with average cmc of 3 with no problem
I hate playing against 80 card Yorion decks in best of 1 because of how unrealistically consistent their draws are.
I don’t play Yorion I play Mono Black and Mono Red decks with 80 cards because of discard decks and I’m fine with 23 lands
@DesolatorMagic. I hope you actually looked at the original reddit post, since 2019 he's updated his data stating that since the spark of the war update the shuffler more accurately correlates with an actual functioning shuffler.
7 lands first 12 cards in a 24 land 60 card deck
60/12 = 5
7 x 5 = 35 lands
The game before, 2 lands first 13 cards in the same deck. you know where I'm going.
Numerous games, 3x of the same card along with 3 lands.
Oh boy, i came back after a long while to play the jumpstart event and i had forgot how awful dealing with the "hand smoothing" and the shuffler was.
Get land flooded, mana starved, or awkward 3-4 or 5 land hands with cards costing 4 mana and upwards with now plays at all until then.
So this is prolly how it happens: assigns each card 1-60 and rolls a d60 when ever you draw a card. It doesnt reassign numbers each time a card is drawn. When it rolls a number thats already taken, it just chooses the next card in sequence, not reroll or whatever.
So basicly. Put 3 cards of a good card and 4 of a card you always want to draw to get more copy's in hand
Yeah I'm now 6 and like 20 in zendikar rising draft thanks to the wonderful shuffler, and before somebody tells me something stupid like get good. I have been playing on and off since 1994 and had a dci limited rating for limited in the 1900's. The shuffler is a cruel joke.
I have a physical elf deck that only runs 15 lands, but it runs 20+ mama dorks so it's actually good if I only draw 3-4 over the course of a game
I stopped playing this stupid game since I had so many weird moments over one year playing MTGA. Like you said, after a while its so easy to prophesy what happens next. Especially it seems like the algorithm knows which type of deck the opponent plays and gives him (nearly) always the combo pieces. For example a lifegain deck gets the Ajani, a mutate deck paradise druid, colorless gets Ugin and so on. I had a match against someone who played this stupid treasure hunt / cycling land deck with ONE zenith flare. Guess what? He got in his first hand treasure hunt AND zenith flare. Its so bullshit. Another weird moment was against someone where I played a burglar rat and he discarded out of 3 cards... a land! Why didnt he played it before? It wasnt the first time I had a strange feeling that my opponent knows my hand. And other stupid cheater who got me disconnected after I played a deathsprout. When I was back online the timer ran out in exactly this second and I didnt got a land.
It would be strange if dont draw all copies of a card in paper at least once
I don't think including games against a cycling deck helps prove your point, considering that every card ends up drawing another card until you get Zenith Flare.
I'm trying to figure out the people who do nothing but time out their first turn then play normal the rest of the game.
I think if you have a deck that gets high 70 percentages or higher win rate, the game then starts making you go second. I experienced that one day with a deck that when it hit 76% win I started getting second go way too much.
the first thing i believe is to turn on their cheats. since i think their cheat filter only scans during the matchmaking
With mono Red Always going second and the Oppo Is Always a temur Adventure or a dimir on super curve
It makes no sense for the shuffler to be this broken. Recently it's gotten much worse. The last 3 seasons. I quit after last night. 6 rounds in a row I got land pulls for 3 to 5 turns. Then got no lands for 5 turns 2 matches after that when started with 3 lands in my hand. This was with a 60 card deck with 20 lands. I was fucking done. And if what everyone's been saying about how you can play the system with how broken it is, I just can't play this anymore.
I would also consider what kind of offering you receive for your opening hand to be a malfunction of the shuffler as well. I should not over and over and over and over have to mulligan 1 and 2 and 3 times to get an even distribution of lands and spells to get a fair shake at a good hand. Also I know i'm being super ambitious by running 2 whole colors in my 60 card deck, but how often I get all lands of 1 color and then all spells of the other color and then vice versa is pretty disturbing. This also will happen even if I mulligan multiple times, it just alternates, lol. For example, if i'm running black/white, the 7 card offering will be 3 plains and 4 black spells. I'll say fuck this non-sense and mulligan EVEN THOUGH I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO and when I go down to 6 cards it will be 2 or 3 swamps and all white spells. Since I refuse to mulligan in an attempt to un-fuck the shuffler, I just concede, zero fucks given. I mean the statistical probabilities of this shit is so minute, yet it happens all the time.
My favorite decks in paper magic are 5 color, and I can say from my experience building and playing them... the Arena shuffler flat out does not work properly. My 5 color deck with only basic lands and no mana fixing should not be more consistent with mana than a 2 color deck, ever. But somehow it is... solely because the 2 color deck is on Arena.
I have noticed that an unusualy large number of times i have scy'd to bottom a card an imminently down the same card. Same with mulls
This game blows. The suffler and matchmaker are utterly rigged. Draws are complete bs and it's clear one person is chosen to win each match before it ever begins.
What does he mean by "that's not how protection from white works"? Doesn't protection from white do exactly that (ie cannot be targeted, damaged, destroyed, blocked from white)?
I'm confused
When playing any of the digital mtg games I have had, a hand of 2 lands and 5 others where i then proceed to draw non-lands for the next 10 rounds, too many times. I've noticed that the 2 most common starting hands in these games are 2 lands and 5 others, and 6 lands and 1 other. This is the case in both decks with too many lands and decks with too few.
I agree, this game can't shuffle
While ranked bronze in limited, I’ve been matched against mythic players many, many times. I even complained to Support about it once. To my genuine surprise, they refunded me the cost in coins, without my asking for one.
Draft matchmaking cares very little (if at all) about rank.
People who time people out are babies unless I don't like their deck, then its cool.
Standards are at 0% sir!
I know it’s anecdotal cause it’s only one example but literally after watching this these events unfold.
Opening hand two temples, first scry basic land to the bottom cause opening hand had three lands so more coming. Next draw the third temple. I only have 4 tapped lands in the deck by the way. The 4th copy was drawn on turn 4...
Better not playing scry lands if You Need untapped lands in early game , cause the game detects It and to give You disavantage It makes You to draw the tapped Land to stop your curve. The arena team makers should get an Oscar to have built a fucking annoying Algo Like that.
Abusing that land abuse isn’t cheating, it’s exploiting
Normal play I don't really seem to have that many issues... the moment I enter ranked everything changes. I went from a long day of 20 wins and 4 losses in normal... go into ranked and I get land fucked 6 matches in a row.... This shit is really stupidly bad.
The arena shuffler is a damn joke, and WoTC will blow smoke up your ass if you try to question them about it. Today I played through 10 games and could not draw one of my 6 targeted removals. I play exact paper copies and never do I draw so poorly as arena draws for me. It's a waste of time to play arena
I had this happen a lot of times. today I had 4 velomachus & 4 invoke justice every turn for 8 turns..thanks game! the problem was the opponent had 4 Rite of Oblivion :|
This game is inherently flawed because they program it to play out given a deterministic state. Therefore you have to play towards how they code it and not how the game is designed to be played.
So you know that hypergeometric distribution stuff? Couldn't you use that to determine the next card drawn given the decklist, cards in hand, and cards played (graveyard, field, exile, etc)? I don't know that it would work how I'm thinking but if it would work, then I might be a genius because idk a damn thing about math n stuff
2 years later still fucked up
The matches are decided before you even draw. It's an insult
So apparently no one has figured out that if Uro gets banned, people will use Scale the Heights as an alternative instead. Everyone I've been saying it to says "YoU hAvE tO hAvE a CrEaTuRe fOr It To Be PlAyAbLe"
1) check the wording again.
2) check the god damn wording again, bitch
3) it may not be a 1-1 card switch, but it's a ramp card that operates the same fucking way if you're trying to have 6 lands out on turn 3
Shuffler broken? Yeah seems about right.
i got embercleave 3 times within the first 10 cards, max 12.. yesterday, playing mono red. I kinda deserve it but having these kind of obvious loses against all the other BS of the moment is just unfun. It happened 3 times in a row before turning back to a realistic value. That was quiet crazy, also.
The olny time I slow played and timed someone they where actively cheating he had two ETB bounce target creature triggers on the stack and it wouldn't let me cast my heroic intervention.
was t3feri out?
I was playing my elves deck and on turn 2 I had all 4 copies of collected company in my hand
Was in a game a day ago opponent got 3 out of possiblity 4 animal sanctuarys on the field by turn 4 how is it possible In real magic unless your deck is stacked it is going to happen In lot 1 out of 200 games or something
It is unity the random number generator. It is known to be a bad random number generator. The problem is it cannot be fixed as unity is embedded so deep into the game if they were to change it would need to overhual the entire game.
They can tho change that opening hand crap, when turn 3 can be repeated over and over it is way to much.
True random generation isn’t as easy as most people think. Unity as a whole is a dumpster fire as soon as you start pushing it too hard. Arena is horrible under optimized too (as is most video games now). Damn I’m old.
@@coolguyxoxo I dont think we can even afford an actual rng in our current technology, but they could change their algorithm really easily... they dont need to stick with unity algorithm.