Nu Finish VS Turtle Wax 100 WASH TEST//SHOCKING RESULTS

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  • Опубліковано 6 гру 2021
  • In this video, I will be comparing two similar card products. The nu finish polish and the turtle wax hard shell. During this comparison, I will be washing my car 100 times in something I call the 100 car wash test. This test will compare Nu Finish to Turtle wax. The question, "Which is better Nu Finish or Turtle Wax" will finally be answered. No longer will you have to ask yourself "Nu Finish or Turtle Wax" as I will be making a video that compares theses two.

КОМЕНТАРІ • 110

  • @Cartier_specialist
    @Cartier_specialist 2 місяці тому +5

    It's funny to hear young people talk about the 1970s like the 70s were the stone age. Of course we washed cars with detergents, cleaners and soap. And believe it or not there were car washes and power washers in the 70s also.

  • @Miamiflow885
    @Miamiflow885 Рік тому +45

    Turtle wax beat out Nu Finish. youre welcome

    • @totophandhamaly9944
      @totophandhamaly9944 5 місяців тому +2

      😂 good looking out bruh

    • @carbonio28
      @carbonio28 2 місяці тому +1

      Where is the hat mister obvious 😉😁

  • @matthewheupel8960
    @matthewheupel8960 11 місяців тому +14

    That is a good test for washes but it doesn't actually apply to real world conditions. While washing your car will remove wax over time, the biggest wax killer is the sun. We saw what washing the car repeatedly did, but we don't know how uv damage will effect each of these waxes. Just something to consider.

  • @murfbass
    @murfbass 2 роки тому +27

    In the 70's we used dish soap to wash the car, which is actually harsher.

    • @cicada9471
      @cicada9471 3 місяці тому

      The harshest is sun rays

    • @ukelilly
      @ukelilly Місяць тому +1

      same here. I used dish soap. And used my fingernail to scratch off anything that wasn't washed off. I did wax with Turtle Wax after every wash.

  • @davidcampbell1899
    @davidcampbell1899 2 роки тому +16

    it was snowing out! Most people don't wax their car in cold weather. I waxed mine today with Nu Finish but it was 70F out!

  • @maximaalski
    @maximaalski Рік тому +5

    I admire your dedication to make this video! Great info and respect to TW!

  • @lynndavis869
    @lynndavis869 Рік тому +6

    interesting article. I used turtle wax on a new 70 Nova I had at Luke AFB, Az. Due to lack of funds, I spent a lot of time waxing my car and trading other guys who only had motorcycles but they got lucky and had a date, so I traded them for the day on the bike and told them they were responsible for cleaning the seats, lol. Weekly application of turtle wax make a car look really good in spite of the dust storms we got for being in a desert. Many years later I started using Nu Finish and would do applications several times a year. I bought an 07 Altima and still own it because it never broke down. However I'm too old to spend the time needed to apply Nu Finish on the car but it still has a shine that's looks much better than it should.

  • @bobdbeck
    @bobdbeck 22 дні тому +1

    Think about how you rinsed after each wash. You used the pressure wash on the same side every time (turtle wax side) and blew the water and soap onto and over the NuFinish side every time. That means the NuFinish side got much more soap and high pressure rinsing than the Turtle Wax. For equality sake you should have rinsed off the wash from each side equally, 50 times from the left and 50 times from the right. I think the NuFinish got a raw deal for unequal rinsing. I have used NuFinish for years on all my luxury cars and have never waxed the cars more than twice in any year. The product holds up exceptionally well under any conditions, is easy to apply and buff off and is very reasonably priced

  • @BBQ_kevin
    @BBQ_kevin 2 роки тому +9

    Good video, but I do have one important comment. If you read the instructions on the nu finish bottle, you need to apply 2 coats/ 30 days apart for it to work as expected. Now saying that, it also states under normal condition. What that means is really unclear. Also saying all that, I tried nu finish this year, and so far it is holding up, but we will see when winter hits. I was a big Turtle wax guy because that is what the garage sold, and used on all their cars. They switched to stp moonshine, so I did as well. That one was high in wax, so it worked great while they lasted. When I got my first car, I went back to Turtle wax, then simoniz. This year I decided to try the hype nu finish and see.

  • @joshuamoore24_7
    @joshuamoore24_7 2 роки тому +3

    I bought a 1974 Dodge Charger SE Brougham Edition yellow with a black top and rear wing. The paint was heavily oxidized and had a white haze of oxidization over the paint on the whole car. I tried the Nu Finish 2000 wax and polish. I tried one fender first and I couldn't believe it almost. The first fender with applying it only once look brand new like candy color yellow paint 🟡. So I did the rest of the car and the whole car looked brand new except for the top was dirty and vinyl. So I used leather vinyl top restorer with sun block. Then the top looked brand also. After cleaning the rims some and the Nu Finish wax and polish and using the vinyl and leather top restorer the whole car looked brand new. Two years after using My Finish the cars paint still looked brilliant.

  • @Brian-rs4ug
    @Brian-rs4ug 3 дні тому

    I have been waxing my car for the last three years with Nu Finish. (Once a year)
    I park my car outside in Colorado’s abrasive weather each night. The end result… Thus stuff works very well and my car still has some wax beading after one year.
    Check Consumer Reports to see their car wax tests. This is why I chose Nu Finish. I believe it was a good choice.

  • @audieconrad8995
    @audieconrad8995 2 роки тому +14

    One thing you proved...you put enough of the TW on the hood to do the entire car! That being said, with all that you applied it seemed to remove relatively easily dispelling the MYTH that it is difficult to remove. Of course part of that myth is that I believe most who use Hardshell have never heard of claybar. That alone will make the difference.

    • @FishinwithAT
      @FishinwithAT 2 роки тому +1

      Lol

    • @archivaldo4310
      @archivaldo4310 Рік тому +2

      Your on point bro clay barring the paint will make a huge difference

  • @darrelpetrie8793
    @darrelpetrie8793 7 місяців тому +2

    I live in the desert it`s always hot and sunny. Unless you have a garage you doing it in the sun. I`ve tried them all as an auto detailer. If it comes down to having to having to do it fast with ease go with nufinish. You can do your car three times a year nufinish for the same time it takes to do TW once. Get out the buffer for TW,your gonna need it.

  • @jackempson3044
    @jackempson3044 Рік тому

    That was helpful. I already have both products in my garage. I used nu wax on my car before I watched this video. Now I have to do it again with my Turtle wax. I thought nu finnish would be better. well, now it'll have both, since my car is still in the garage. I had the nu finnish in my cabinet for years so I wondered if they still made it so that's why I looked a test like this up. Ironic that i had both products on hand and curious. Thanks.

  • @ItsJust2SXTs
    @ItsJust2SXTs 2 роки тому +1

    I used both of them, first the nu finish to lightly polish and creat the first layer then I put TW over it and let it cure after removing it like a day. I did this methode once in spring 2016 and water is still beading, the car is in the garage all the time and it's not my daily since late 2016 but i drove it like a daily few times a years, also avoiding rainy day too. I wash it once a years...

  • @gorbulas
    @gorbulas 8 місяців тому +3

    Did I miss the part when you let the wax/polish cure before washing?

  • @joeschmoe6908
    @joeschmoe6908 2 роки тому +23

    Dude that turtle wax did not dry to a haze that fast, in those kind of temps it takes longer. It just looked hazy because you used about 20 times more than you should have. Also nobody in the 70's was washing their car without soap, soap has been around much longer than that and most modern soaps are virtually identical to those from the 70's.

  • @jcfc8197
    @jcfc8197 2 роки тому +5

    Not equal testing. You put more TW on left side of hood, but then again when rising the hood, the TW side got hit with more pressure from the pressure washer then the NU side. Still the TW side held up better. I’ve tried so many wax and polishes on my Jeep Wrangler TW has done the best job. My Jeep gets dirty all the time and I wash it twice a week. Keep it clean is work, thank goodness I’m retired. lol

  • @tonec-
    @tonec- 10 місяців тому

    Good content!👍🏽

  • @quacktuber1051
    @quacktuber1051 10 місяців тому +1

    Ah ha. Extra credit for waxing car while it's snowing.

  • @eddiespagetti8395
    @eddiespagetti8395 2 роки тому +1

    Nice car. I have 2004 Monte white. My fave cars now. Nu finish is great stuff. I have used both. Both are so simalar I do not notice any better than the other ??

  • @pablinalvarezz
    @pablinalvarezz 2 роки тому +6

    couldnt you wait for a day without snow ? .. thats not how your suposed tu apply any product i think

    • @71degrees
      @71degrees Рік тому +1

      You're correct, cold weather is the wrong way. In fact, there is so much wrong about this video

  • @arnobashtar6707
    @arnobashtar6707 8 місяців тому +2

    Not a fair test, you need to take into account the varying temperatures that a car hood is subjected to over the course of a year, including hot summer months which would elevate surface temperatures of the hood close to the melting point of carnauba wax, especially on a dark finish hood like your car.

  • @etpeterson2087
    @etpeterson2087 2 роки тому +13

    I've used Nu finish for years since I was a teen . the key is you apply it several times . over a course of a few months say , every 3 months. The results will blow you away. It gets better over time.

    • @adamdomonski1619
      @adamdomonski1619 2 роки тому

      So twice a month?

    • @ikramzul187
      @ikramzul187 2 роки тому

      why the Nu finish turn into water after using for a while? original like cream? are they expired or expose to direct sun.

    • @mattmaverick703
      @mattmaverick703 Рік тому +1

      Ive always used Nu Finish on my silver metallic colored Ford's I owned throughout the years and honestly this polish is the BEST. It not only protects my cars/ truck it makes the paint shine unbelievably as well as the chrome trim pieces. Definitely worth the money and yes I apply it religiously few times a year as well.

    • @jbrlet1681
      @jbrlet1681 Рік тому

      Totally Agree. Been using Nu Finish about every 6 months for 5 years on my Genesis. It literally looks like it is made of liquid.

  • @808drummerpercussionist9
    @808drummerpercussionist9 15 днів тому

    I used Nu Finish in the 70's, used properly and patiently works, Turtle wax compound is my go to,,,,Wax? I like their products.....in my time NO Clay Bar

  • @prospectorjamesmarshall9509
    @prospectorjamesmarshall9509 Рік тому +1

    Im going to buy turtle wax. Thanks for the comparison

  • @ukelilly
    @ukelilly Місяць тому

    I wash my car every month on average using Mcguires ( about the same protection as Turtle Wax ?) . Does that mean that I don't have to wax every time I wash it ? And I don't think I waxed it correctly. It got really dry by the time I wax off ( flakes /dusts off).
    How can I remove wax that got on the hard plastic ( and has grainy texture) part ( trim?) of the car ? I tried to wash it off but I can't. Thanks

  • @HappyHands.
    @HappyHands. 2 місяці тому

    Because the particle of dust at the center of the snowflake always helps to be worked into the finish

  • @LarryVanz
    @LarryVanz 3 місяці тому

    I used Turtle Wax and Nu Finish for years.
    Now I'm into ceramic and graphene.

  • @jeetsg12.94
    @jeetsg12.94 2 роки тому +2

    Very intresting video, and a very good effort put in by u too as well,
    I cant imagine how much time u spent , to wash the car a 100 times,
    Really grt effort...🤩🤘

  • @pericoolseby
    @pericoolseby Рік тому

    Great video

  • @gerlandkent6377
    @gerlandkent6377 Рік тому

    thank, you for you're video

  • @capitaltruck303
    @capitaltruck303 Рік тому

    I just put this on my car after not wanting to pay 35.00 for turtle wax graphene wax. I sure hope it holds up as well as yours did.

  • @808drummerpercussionist9
    @808drummerpercussionist9 15 днів тому

    I still would use Nu finish, does the job, apply more often is no big deal, easy to work with. Back in the Day, I used a 3 step Blue Coral. not sure if it is still around

  • @waynewolfe3343
    @waynewolfe3343 2 роки тому

    Any wax I try every three months to wax my cars & don't a paste it takes too long to dry

  • @curse6of6me6
    @curse6of6me6 2 роки тому +7

    Conpletely not in the slightest how they actually intend it to be applied. Lol

    • @71degrees
      @71degrees Рік тому +2

      Yes, including the time of year, time of day, and the temperature 🤦‍♂️

  • @mike63988
    @mike63988 Місяць тому

    LMAO @ 1:30 . Nice.

  • @gastroalchemy4499
    @gastroalchemy4499 2 роки тому +5

    It didn't even look like they had any hydrophobic properties even from wash one

    • @D4x4Bronc
      @D4x4Bronc 2 роки тому +1

      both freaking horrible. What would one do with turtle wax beyond throwing it away?

    • @joeschmoe6908
      @joeschmoe6908 2 роки тому +2

      Thats because he didn't give either one nearly enough time to bond. In those temps he should've waited 15-20 mins before buffing off. It was a good attempt at a comparison, but he did pretty much everything wrong.

    • @naderotaibi7667
      @naderotaibi7667 Рік тому +1

      ​@@joeschmoe6908 what is the proper way .. please let me know i wanna wax my car

    • @joeschmoe6908
      @joeschmoe6908 Рік тому

      @@naderotaibi7667 Just make sure the car is totally clean first. Then apply a very thin layer of wax, as long as it's fully covered the layer can be very thin. Most waxes get a hazy look when they are ready to be wiped off. If you remove it too soon it won't bond as well, and will also be more difficult to wipe off smoothly. How long you wait depends on the wax, also if it's hot outside it takes much less time. Some waxes are also much harder to remove even if you do it right.
      Just search youtube for "how to wax a car" and watch a few vids.

  • @davenelson4334
    @davenelson4334 3 місяці тому

    According to the Nu Finish directions, you're suppose to apply a second coat after a month.

  • @onlyaksh9908
    @onlyaksh9908 2 роки тому

    Hi bro nice video
    Can you tell me which shampoo to use on my car that doesnot strip wax

    • @BenDover-lx1gh
      @BenDover-lx1gh 2 роки тому

      Any wash and wax shampoo will do the job i use meguiar's.mothers wash and wax is also great

    • @gastroalchemy4499
      @gastroalchemy4499 2 роки тому

      I think it was a tongue in cheek comment

  • @palemonvazquez1982
    @palemonvazquez1982 Рік тому

    is this product bad for paint?

  • @lukejolley8354
    @lukejolley8354 2 роки тому

    killer wash!!!

  • @BannanaTree-ed4tz
    @BannanaTree-ed4tz 2 місяці тому +1

    Ones a polish and ones a wax that's why the turtle wax wins

  • @peterc.7807
    @peterc.7807 3 місяці тому

    applying polish while it's raining/snowing?? I don't think so.

  • @dafunk100k
    @dafunk100k 2 роки тому

    Song name? Nice vid too

  • @dauwg99
    @dauwg99 2 роки тому +2

    Great content! You seem very knowledgeable.

  • @marambula
    @marambula 2 роки тому +1

    in the video you did like 25 washes and you counted, then you skipped an said you did 50 but ran out of soap. No video for 100 washes? was this clickbait and a waste of my time? did you even apply them correctly? i’m not sure I saw any real hydrophobics??
    can’t say i’m motivated to check out your channels after that video but I appreciate the time you spent anyways. keep up the work.

  • @troywest7111
    @troywest7111 Рік тому

    I started focusing on how much water you were wasting, lol

  • @mattc825
    @mattc825 Рік тому +2

    Anyone waxing in the snow is okay in my book

    • @sapphire163
      @sapphire163 Рік тому

      Weather permitting, waxing a car right before it snows, especially a dark car, has great results. If it is a dry snow with a little wind, the snow blows off it. The contrast of the shiny dark car and fresh snow looks great.

  • @darrinlogan
    @darrinlogan 4 місяці тому

    So This test should be ran through a machine car wash. To get the best results.

  • @xrpxtrariceplease2811
    @xrpxtrariceplease2811 Рік тому

    Your water bills just went up 100x

  • @NormanStansfield1
    @NormanStansfield1 Рік тому

    Nice guy but I cringed when I saw him using a pressure cleaner on the paint. I would not use a pressure cleaner. Also washing and waxing when it is snowing? I would think the metal is pretty cold for putting wax on a car. ??

  • @henryjoshual1848
    @henryjoshual1848 Рік тому

    I've used NuFinish off and on for years. (I buy it when it's on sale.) It's ok, but no better than basic TurtleWax. And I got better things to do than apply NuFinish twice within 30 days (based on the bottle instructions.) How does one do that anyway---the car gets dirty and you have to wash it again before applying again....

  • @abduljohn9895
    @abduljohn9895 2 роки тому

    👍

  • @gimmesomesugar
    @gimmesomesugar 2 роки тому

    Good video!

  • @ibj3
    @ibj3 2 роки тому +2

    What they actually meant was the can of tw will last you a entire year. I'm lucky to see it on my car paint for more then 2 weeks. It strips off every wash😄 but the shine looks good tho

    • @71degrees
      @71degrees Рік тому

      You're supposed to wash your car with a soap that won't remove the wax

  • @RayoBeatz
    @RayoBeatz 2 роки тому +5

    flat earth confirmed

  • @diggersdiecast8879
    @diggersdiecast8879 2 роки тому +3

    The test went really dead really fast

  • @luisponce1472
    @luisponce1472 11 місяців тому

    Oldschool Turtle Wax 🐢

  • @davejackson7390
    @davejackson7390 2 роки тому +2

    I've used nu finish since it first came out... you did not apply it properly and you did on what looked like a day of light snow... plus nu finish needs a day or so to set and it has always lasts at least a year.... and for the sake of accuracy cars were washed with much gather soaps than now... moisture l mostly dishwashing liquid... I'm not sure why anyone would assume there was not soap used to "wash" a car... I'm saying this because I was there only person my dad allowed to wash his vehicles and I learned from him and the other men in our neighborhood... nu finish is a paint conditioner that has less abrasives than most waxes... next time mist the water after the rinse... and apply the nu finish in small curricular motions and don't worry about swirl marks because there are no abrasives,.. plus being a paint conditioner it needs warmer temperatures to be effective

  • @godbless-bp2fd
    @godbless-bp2fd 10 місяців тому +1

    Dude you don't have to wash your car that many times to find out Turtle Wax🐢 winner 🏆

  • @tellall007
    @tellall007 2 роки тому +1

    the earth is NOT flat

  • @jackempson3044
    @jackempson3044 Рік тому

    I think we worry about the superficial outside of the metal too much and not the inside of the panels. That's where the rust comes from. I won't own a car with rust. They usually don't rust from the outside in. They rust from the inside out. Salt on the underframe rusts and the bad window trim leaks water into the bottom of the doors rusting the doors from the inside bottom, out. I just replaced the window seal trim on my FJ cruiser. It was a cinch and cheap. Took about five minutes.

  • @andrewsmith8729
    @andrewsmith8729 8 місяців тому

    Okay, my late father swore by Nu-finish. I don't care about whether or not these polishes last a year. This is what I did on my Holden VF SSV sedan.
    1. Clay barred the entire vehicle using soapy water.
    2. Rinsed it off.
    3. Washed the entire car and chamois dried.
    4. Left in the sun for a couple of hours.
    5. Microfibre soft towel over the panel before applying Nu finish.
    6. Applied Nu-finish using one of those $100 buffers with two batteries etc. These are not that good, but with very light pressure they take a lot of effort out of the task.
    7. Foam pad applicator and then buffed off residue with lambs wool pad.
    8. Final rub over with another Microfibre soft towel.
    Waited 3 weeks.. Washed the car at a jet wash.....Drove it home... Repeated steps 3 to 8. Takes me about 2 hours with a few breaks... getting a bit old.
    People have stopped me in the street to comment on the shine.
    How good is it?
    It used to cost me about $10 through a jet wash and 25 minutes... Use the pressure spray and soap... rinse... wax and dry-off with a chamois.
    Now, $2.00 and under 10 minutes.... Use the pressure sprayer on rinse....wipe panels over with chamois at same time until the sprayer timer runs out. Then, chamois dry panels.
    Umm, the result is not perfect... a couple of bug remains were stuck on.... and I had driven through some recent roadworks.... there are a few spots of tar etc. Still, it came up pretty good.
    Recently, I was driving around in the rain over a couple of days. The dirt doesn't fall off it... a quick wipe with a wet chamois is better. When I don't use the chamois, the water beads and is gone in a few hours with leaving any streaks.
    Nu-finish has some sort of silicone in it... like Rain-off.
    I have buffed and polished this car twice now with Nu-finish... still have about 1/2 the bottle left. I think it works a lot better on white coloured cars.... they are easier to keep clean.
    My car will get clay barred with Nu-finish orange wash next week. Then, I will give it another coat of Nu-finish polish again. That is at about 3 months. Who cares if it doesn't last a year.. it is good polish.

  • @TheDarknessConsumesMe666
    @TheDarknessConsumesMe666 Місяць тому

    11:03 - kind of odd how a paw print developed on the hood 😂

  • @kriskhaira
    @kriskhaira Рік тому

    Why are you comparing a wax to a polish? Of course the polish won't have any hydrophobic properties.

  • @D4x4Bronc
    @D4x4Bronc 2 роки тому +1

    Both of those waxes are horrible. I didn't even see water beading after you applied it. I honestly dont know what you would do with that wax beyond throwing it away.

  • @gabevillarreal96
    @gabevillarreal96 2 роки тому +4

    Both were dead by 8 washes. There are so many products out there that are way wY wY better in every single category!

    • @demonslayermaster
      @demonslayermaster 2 роки тому +1

      Than please tell us what those are

    • @gabevillarreal96
      @gabevillarreal96 2 роки тому +9

      @@demonslayermaster In that category just about everything. Meguiars ultimate paste wax or their liquid wax. The Turtle wax 35th anniversary graphene infused ceramic paste wax. In the spray on category, seal n shine, ice spray wax, both new formulas. Sonax Ceramic spray coating. Nufinish Better than Wax Ceramic Spray coating. Meguiars Ceramic spray. Mother's cmx. And a lot of those are very cheap and last a long time. Some have better slickness some have better gloss enhancement, some have better hydrophobic properties, but every one I listed is easier to use, lasts longer, and has much new chemical technology than those other two dinosaurs that were great in the 80s, but time and chemistry has passed them up.

    • @ravenbonanza1522
      @ravenbonanza1522 2 роки тому +3

      I am cheap. I buy the cheapest which is TW. I re-apply every 6 months or even less . It's also good exercise rather than lifting weights.

    • @gabevillarreal96
      @gabevillarreal96 2 роки тому

      @@ravenbonanza1522 Haaaa!!! I agree! TW products do a fantastic job! Re apply every 2-6 months and you are goid to go. Seal n Shine as a base, and ice spray wax once a month as a topper and it's protected, slick feeling and glossy! Cheap and effective products that are simple to use! That's where TW makes their money in this particular market!

    • @joeschmoe6908
      @joeschmoe6908 2 роки тому +2

      @@demonslayermaster Virtually anything that costs slightly more, which is everything. Honestly though, if these two are applied correctly they are much better than this test would indicate. Way too much product was used, and neither was given enough time to bond to the paint.

  • @71degrees
    @71degrees Рік тому +1

    🤦‍♂️Dude. Wrong time of year and wrong application too....
    no judgement, but the problem is that people who don't know any better will take your video as truth.
    Please take this video down

  • @RDC_Autosports
    @RDC_Autosports Рік тому

    not an equal test cause you used a polish vs a wax lmao

  • @andrewsmith8729
    @andrewsmith8729 11 місяців тому

    The first minute of waffle was too much for me.

  • @siclmn
    @siclmn 2 роки тому +6

    Your "test" was very flawed. Any coating on car paint needs time to set and cure. There was no way that it could happen on a day with snow on the ground.

  • @vincentnichols402
    @vincentnichols402 Рік тому

    Back to the 70 comment we used Dish soap to wash car after spending 2hours waxing & next wknd remove all Wax with aDish soap😂🤣😆 ogh the Good old Days of not knowing 😂😂😂

  • @nzbrotrev9028
    @nzbrotrev9028 9 місяців тому

    Turtle wax claim only up to 3 months .

  • @griffonsa
    @griffonsa 3 місяці тому

    this video is so wrong lol....
    You dont rub wax in with a microfibre cloth?! The amount and way you apply it is like SHEESH!!! You wax in cold and snow? And it doesnt even get time to cure and then u wash it instantly?
    So so wrong!

  • @jameslong4453
    @jameslong4453 2 роки тому +2

    Nu Finish is the worst stuff I have ever used. Put it in the trash.

    • @petestaint8312
      @petestaint8312 Рік тому +1

      Agreed! Used it once. Left swirls and streaks and a bitch to remove. Went back to turtle wax.

  • @RayoBeatz
    @RayoBeatz 2 роки тому +1

    well no fucking shit turtle wax won lol that is a bitch to apply by hand but it is gourgeous

    • @RayoBeatz
      @RayoBeatz 2 роки тому

      and cheap only $4 bucks

  • @johnsonckchu
    @johnsonckchu 2 роки тому +1

    Both products are suck