Frank Miller's All Star Batman & Robin: What Went Wrong?
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2019
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If I told you that in the mid 2000’s, DC Comics wanted to pair up Frank Miller (writer of such iconic comic books as The Dark Knight Returns, Daredevil: Born Again and Batman: Year One), with Jim Lee (one of the most beloved and iconic artists in modern comics), together on a 12-issue Batman series, you’d think that’s an incredible idea. Two insanely talented figures in comics working together to craft what surely would be an era and genre defining Batman comic book. Instead, it was the complete opposite. 2005’s All Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder is regarded as one of the biggest and most catastrophic failures in modern comics; a floundering, incoherent mess that (in nearly 3 years of releases), fails to tell a compelling story, establish any real characters, or even have an actual villain. Considering the parties involved in bringing this book to life, All Star Batman borders on tragedy in its failure, and in this video, I want to talk about what happened and what went wrong with Miller and Lee’s All Star Batman and Robin, from its initial inception, to the various problems that curbed the book’s momentum, to its quiet and shallow whimper from existence, and the legacy held by its flounder, and the cautionary tale of the Goddamn Batman.
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#AllStarBatman #FrankMiller #Batman - Розваги
You forgot to mention how Batman, gut punches Alfred for sneaking Grayson a cheeseburger! I was done after I read that.
Point Blank That shit was hilarious!
Alphonzo316 that shit was not funny this batman is a fucking punk Diana should’ve killed him like she said she was gonna do
Manny Escuela Oh get a life these are just comic book characters not real people 🙄
Marcus Moore ok and? I do have a life and you don’t understand the context of what I said I was talking about the fictional story dumbass
no wonder the comic industry is dead thanks to these shitty stories and plots.
Absolutely no blame goes to Lee: the art wasn't the problem & in fact was quite good. ALL blame goes to Miller for having lost his mind & ability to write comics due to whatever extenuating circumstance.
Disagree the art was genetic and uninspired- well, at best, typical Lee output, tbh but nothing especially creative from him - and being creative was the point
of the AllStar line
It was fantastically written. It simply wasnt what people wanted. It was a new take on the character with all of batman's terrible personality qualities amplified. Theres nothing wrong with that.
@@bobdylan1968 if no one likes it, is it really well written?
@@metal079 yes. Popularity has nothing to do with quality. Those things don't correlate at all. Transformers. Enough said.
I don't know man I mean like I'm the GODAMN BATMAN sounds fucking stupid but what do I know
"I love being the goddamn Batman!"
The existence of just this one line proves that this book simply does not understand the character. Batman doesn't "love" doing any of this. Nothing would make him happier than to finally see the day where the Batman is just flat out no longer needed to keep the peace.
No he snapped after seeing all the horror of the city so now he let his anger out by doing what he think is the right thing
@@abdullayaser700 I mean, sure that's what THIS character is doing...but that's just not Batman. Batman does not scout out and kidnap kids and then train them to be soldiers. Whenever he takes on a sidekick, it's because THEY wanted to be trained. The actual Batman always keeps in mind which lines should and should not be crossed. This character simply isn't Batman. I get that it's technically an elseworlds story, but in any other story where a Batman had fallen this far...he'd be the villain of the story. This story though still wants us to see him as heroic in some compacity and it just doesn't work.
@Nobody comments are not funny you troglodyte Fair enough, but that brings me back to my other point. In ANY other story where a Batman had fallen this far...he'd be the villain of the story. Trying to frame a Bruce Wayne who is THIS twisted and unhinged as the hero of the story does not work and it's made even worse if you know where these two characters end up in The Dark Knight Returns continuity because knowing what comes next destroys ANY hope of this Bruce Wayne going through some kind of character growth and realizing that maybe he's going too far. This Batman ends his career in The Dark Knight Strikes Again as an irredeemable piece of shit and Dick Grayson is literally driven insane by years of abuse and emotional neglect, yet we're still apparently supposed to side with Batman and what he's doing? Nope...Doesn't work.
@Nobody comments are not funny you troglodyte which isn't the purpose of All-Star
@Nobody comments are not funny you troglodyte it's almost like the all star line of comic was supposed to distill all aspect of beloved character into an easy to digest comic, which this comic does jack shit, and even if this wasn't a normal batman then why the fuck he acts like a psychopath? might as well write for punisher story and even then the punisher isn't this psychopathic
what went wrong? easy a hobo named steve stole the Bat costume and started calling himself the God damn Batman
Was that revealed in the unreleased issues?
@@thomaswelbourn55
Linkara Joke the All Star Batman was so out of character that he started calling him Crazy Steve saying he wasn't Batman but a crazy hobo who stole Batman's costume and car
Oh, I thought it was angry Clint Eastwood.
I like to think it was Josef Muller.
All-Star Crazy Steve & Dick Grayson, Age Twelve. "And you'd BETTER NOT be a fan of Rock & Roll Music!"
Batman & Robin may've tanked the "All-Star" idea, but at least the line still produced All-Star Superman which we can ALL agree lives up to that title.
All Star Superman was perfect imo. It captured the essence of Superman.
It sucks that Warner Bros.
Haven’t studied there homework when it comes to Superman
All Star Superman is arguably one of my favorite books
But he didn’t even snap ONE neck in that book! Lame!
All Star Superman is honestly what got me into Superman as a character and made me fall in love with him.
I prefer Red Son, or Birthright
The fact that batman actually smiles more than the joker tells you all you need to know about this book
@Nobody comments are not funny you troglodyte oh so it was intentionally garbage ok
@Become upset. that doesn’t make the convoluted storyline any better lol.
@How did I get subscribed to this channel? Finally someone who gets it
@@Snake-rv3wdthe story is still trash
@GreenSanicim genuely curious, what it was?
The entire Green Lantern scene in the yellow room was simultaneously hilarious and infuriating
the lemonade 😂
what went wrong? He made Batman into an insane, child-abusing fascist
Miller's Batman has always been a fascist. That's why he's awesome.
Then why does he punch Nazis and call his opponents fascist sorry to ruin your little altright fantasy but he was about as fascist as the question
Who runs through police cars and says shit like "I'm the goddamn Batman."
@@CallOfEuropeanSpirit wtf is wrong with you!?
@@dinadina2000 fascists don't like other fascists. It's why Hitler gave up on Mussolini after after a while.
That feel when the video about the comic is a million times better than the comic itself.
Matt Draper By the way, what’s your next video coming out?
I with you there.
Jabari Jefferson The topic is a secret but it will be out next Wednesday!
Matt Draper All right. I can wait till then!
@@MattDraper Hey Matt, would you consider doing another video on IDW's TMNT? Really liked the first one you did and a lot went down in the run since you made that vid.
Now, remember Grant Morrison's quote: "The All-Star idea is to distill everything we like about the characters into one simple package that’s very much aimed at a more mainstream pop audience..."
You can only imagine how terrible and scary Frank Miller was when he tried to push THIS as the definitive version of Batman.
Here's a quote for you Grant Morrison death of the author gives you the illusion of creative control you might be the evil mastermind but the readers are the good capes and so are the characters.
This comic doesn’t capture the true essence of Batman. Behind all the gadgets, the ferocity and the intellect lies a good man trying to do good for the world, and Frank Miller just threw that out of the window.
Hey, kinda like Zack snyder
Agreed!
Zack “if your heroes don’t commit atrocities you’re living in a dream world” Snyder
@@mrcritical6751 so true lol
@Zachary Ramirez by killing their entire police force? Seems legit
Should’ve been called The God-Damned Batman who kidnapped a kid and forced him to eat rats. What the hell was Frank Miller thinking?!
He wasn't, as the finished product plainly shows.
So true.
69th like
Trying too hard to make Batman butch, lol!
I'd buy that book for the title alone!
Me, someone who has never heard of this comic: Well the art looks really good, I’m sure it won’t be THAT bad
**Batman crashes into a police car**
Me: Wait holdup...
**Batman: you’ve just been drafted, into a WAR**
Me: ...Oh Boy
Batman has sex with Black Canary while criminals burn behind them. PS: They've killed the criminals.
Yeah same lol
@@Adriel100894 This sounds like a Batman fanfiction written by a 12yo black metal fan.
@@mkge7206 that's what most Frank Miller sounds like to me
oh it gets worse. He had Dick Grayson EAT RATS! Literally the day after Dick's parents died ..... That is not what I want to see from the Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne relationship. Makes you wonder why the hell Dick didn't try to run the hell away sooner
I don't swear. I'm a good, wholesome boy.
Can confirm this to be true. Scott is the kind of boy we should all aspire to be.
We know you are Scott!
A good, wholesome boy. AGE 12!!!!
SWEAR TO ME
You could answer the title question in 6 words: They gave it to Frank Miller.
You've been calling Robin the wrong name; his name's "Dick Grayson, age 12".
Considering just how good Year One is - I haven't read TDKR - it makes sense they'd given it to him.
@@MegaSpideyman TDKR is very good. Deserving of being called a classic.
Dark Knight Strikes Again, however, is atrocious.
The dark knight universe fucking sucks
@@MegaSpideyman Everything Miller did on Batman besides those two books is either bad or bloody terrible though.
And the ASBAR version of Batman is called "Crazy Steve".
If you read this book with Adam West's voice in your head for Batman, it makes it so much fun.
The Adventures of Crazy Steve and Dick Grayson, Age Twelve.
Did we mention he's 12 years old? Or that he was born 12 years ago?
I'm just imagining Crazy Steve from Drake and Josh as Batman.
PokeDude011 It’s a Linkara reference.
@@dvader518 In that case...
I'M THE GOD DAMN LIGHTBRINGER!
@@PokeDude011 Huge Linkara fan myself but I'll give you that one.
When I first read the Dark Knight Returns I was surprised to see that Batman was written, y’know, like Batman. He doesn’t kill, he’s still fairly reasonable, and while he becomes more brutal than your animated Batman’s and such, it never felt too gratuitous. Frank Miller at some point DID have a grasp on who Batman was and even helped redefine him for more modern interpretations. I said I was surprised in seeing this, because prior to sitting down and reading the Dark Knight miniseries I had seen and heard of Strikes Again and All Star, with infamous panels of the Goddamn Batman and Batman throwing Grayson into a volcano... I had assumed that Miller’s Batman was just a crazed psycho. But that wasn’t the case in Dark Knight Returns, so I really wanna know what happened between writing Returns/Year One and Strikes Again & All Star.
I’m also amused by how All Star Batman & Robin pretty much failed miserably, whereas it’s Superman counterpart did spectacularly and is one of the best Superman series ever. Usually Batman has the better animated series, better movies, and better video games than Supes so it’s nice to see he got a win in the All Star category hehehe
The consensus is that Frank Miller lost his mind after the 9/11 attacks. Start from there if this isn't a rhetorical question.
Spoon Dude it was 9/11 tons of interviews done on this. He watched the towers come down
Spoon Dude EXACTLY! He even wrote a very idealistic and compassionate Bruce in Year One. Meanwhile TDKR is a hardened 55 year old cynical Bruce yet he still has his virtues and morals. After all those are the things that make Batman a hero and not another anti-hero.
The dude basically becomes the leader of a gang of skinheads to become the dictator of Gotham. How the fuck is that reasonable? Miller has always written Batman as psycho, people just thought it was satire.
*Manic Pixie Fangirl * but didn’t Waid do the same thing to Batman in Kingdom Come? Besides, from what I see I think the choice was deliberate, as the whole point of the story was that it was an old more cynical Batman, a version of him that was supposed to be more different.
I remember picking up the paperback from the library when I was thirteen. I was so confused and thought it was the main cannon for the characters. I felt so bad for Robin. It put me off comic books for a good while.
SagelynSeven He put me off Batman for years. Well, more the fanboys who basically thought his version of Batman was God.
SagelynSeven the previously mentioned in the video Dark Victory is more the cannon for Robin origin, and it’s great
Basically Frank Miller was the reason I stopped reading comics in the first place
@@spideyguy3315 Frank Miller ruined comics In a lot of ways
I mean that may not be literally what happened in the mainstream continuity but your simply wrong if you think there's a difference to the negative psychological affect of what batman did to Robin.
I still can’t decide if “Batman” or “Wonder Woman” is the most out of character in this book
You think Wonder Woman is out of character? Only a sperm bank would think so.
I never read this. What was wrong with Wonder Woman?
A lot W's.
@@DarksaberForce She is horrendously out of character. She's a violent, sexist, pig. She calls a random passerby a "sperm bank" and suggests to the Justice League that they deliver Batman's head on a plate to the world's governments. Oh but then the book tries to do that old "she just needed the right man to get her in line" by pairing her up with Superman, who, by the way, is also needlessly angry throughout this book.
@@DarksaberForce I hate you. You make me sick.
Just imagine Wonder Woman saying that over and over and over and you'll get the idea.
Mister Tea oh so basically injustice Wonder Woman but worse.
Ah yes ASBAR. Starring Crazy Steve, Bonkers Betty, and Dick Grayson. Age 12.
I see you've been atop the 4th wall
@@jennifercorbett8640 Where bad comics burn.
@@theangryholmesian4556 Linkara gonna teach you all the lesson you must learn
@@looniemoonie5955 Linkara: He is a Man! PUNCH! Wears a purty hat.
Linkara he has a magic gun where did he purchase that
The saying, "I'm the Goddamn Batman" is so iconic and hilarious to me that I've adopted it for my sketch's always referring to Batman as the GD Batman.
Fr. Iaughed so goddamn hard when I first saw it.
Genuinely had no idea Loeb was approached to write it before Miller. Damn, what could have been... Loeb's Marvel work left a lot to be desired yet his work at DC I still love to this day, including Superman/Batman. Miller, on the other hand, I've never got what people see in him. Sure, Year One is *the* definitive origin and Dark Knight Returns is one hell of a strong concept that was pretty well realised, but when it comes down to it Miller's Batman is not someone I particularly care about reading, especially when it becomes clear that Miller has very little love for many of the supporting characters or the wider DCU as a whole. All Star is the pinnacle but Miller's treatment of the Justice League and characters like Dick or Barbara has always been pretty shocking. It's a shame people still put so much stock by him; other creators out there - not just Loeb - have handled the character and the universe with much more respect, IMO.
Blame the NYT and the MSM for only acknowledging TDKR and Watchmen at any given moment.
Honestly? Loeb is one of the best Batman writers out there.
I would disagree about Loeb's Marvel work. His collaborations with Tim Sale on the colors series have all been fantastic and moving. Though I would say that Captain America: White left something to be desired
I have the suspicion Hush was just the All Star Batman story Loeb and Lee were going to do originally, so odds are we got it after all, anyway.
I like Loeb’s work on Batman than Miller’s.
Remember kids.
Holy Terror was going to be a Batman's story before it was rejected.
Plus, there already WAS a Batman story called Holy Terror, the very first official Elseworlds graphic novel (Gotham By Gaslight became that retroactively; before that, it was just "an alternative history of The Batman").
Johnathon Haney I always thought I was the only person who knew that, thanks for existing
Flash's death in that story was really gruesome.
@@nameredacted1448 How could I forget the first Elseworlds graphic novel I ever picked up? Especially when it cut too close to home with some inner struggles of my own at the time?
@@Savra EVERYTHING about that world was heartbreaking to look at. But yeah...poor Barry...
The art is good, but the writing is terrible and Batman is so psychotic and unlikable.
You meant "psychopathic", right ?
It basically means the same thing.
That's frank miller. I'm new to comics but i've just read his Daredevil run and though he defines the character Daredevil is a hatable cunt. The only reason Sin City works is because everyone is terrible and miller could define the characters how he wanted.
Just like in the DCEU ;)
Thats the dark knight rises universe that everyone love.
So basically Frank Miller turned Batman into a Sin City character?
Nah that's an insult to Sin City.
He never stopped writing Sin City.
Basically. Except even sin City has characters with more of a moral center than this
bAsiCaLlY
More like he made him like Modern Peter Griffin
This is so bad... but a big shout out to Jim Lee's art here. Legendary as usual.
If anyone wants to read an excellent All-Star Batman, they should check out Scott Snyder's run on the book. It really is incredible how good Snyder is at writing Batman.
Not anymore lol
@@spoodurmin9742 What do you mean?
Anxious Samurai Scott Snyder just isn’t good at writing Batman anymore. In my opinion.
@@spoodurmin9742 oooooft
We already have the real All Star Batman and Robin, it’s called Batman: Dark Victory.
I think Miller was just trying to be as "dark and edgy" as possible. Much like Chuck Austen was trying to be over at Marvel. Both writers failed.
One difference: Austen approached it from a place of genuine ignorance (still think the world of his first U.S. War Machine series) whereas Miller seemed to be spitting bile at the entire medium and the 21st century he'd found himself in over how both had changed.
It's Crazy Steve.
Twelve year old Dick Grayson
It's Miller Time
Bonkers betty
@@itech439 Aquaman = Drunking Bro
Shazam = Manny Kidd (Man-Child)
Bearded Idiot "I AM A MAYUN!"
I find it hilarious that Batman is smiling and laughing like a damn moron yet the joker is never cracks any smiles
"Hey now your The Batman, get your game on go play. Hey now all-star Batman, put the show on get paid. All that glitters is gold, only shooting Martha breaks the mould!!!!!!"
*slow claps*
@@OwenLikesComics *bows*
Have a gold star! 🌟
Interesting facet I never thought of before:
He didn't let Dick go to his parents' funeral. Which happened WHEN?
I still remember the part where Batman helped catch a wounded Catwoman and said "I got you baby" is one of many of the things I see Batman that I didn't think he would do that.
I like TDKR as a one-off "what if" story, and I understand why people both love and respect it and why people don't like it and feel it's a bit of a perversion of both Batman and Superman to one extent or another. Honestly, his All-Star book, as well as TDKSA just go to show why I don't think Miller is quite as good of a Batman writer as people think he is. Year One is far and beyond his best Batman work, and this is probably because he was mostly constrained under the established norms of the character within continuity. His Daredevil work is unquestionably top notch, though. I'll take all of his Daredevil work over the vast majority of his Batman in a heartbeat. In my opinion, All-Star Batman and Robin pretty clearly exemplifies how he doesn't really get the character in a lot of ways. The fact he gets credit for "giving Batman his balls back" is borderline blasphemous when the great Denny O'Neal revitalized the character many years before Miller ever showed up to the party.
"His star was not shining quite as brightly" is a VERY generous way to describe Frank Miller's descent into narcissistic, bloviating, fundamentalist dementia. Nice one. :)
I'll never forgive Frank Miller for his treatment of Dick Grayson in The Dark Knight Strikes Again.
Being a comic book lover of the Silver and Golden Age style of Bat Man and Robin, there wasn't any weirdness going on with these two relationships. Although the stories were quite bizarre as were the villains, Bat Man and Robin were able to beat them by staying saner and using a more cooler headed approach to defeat them. This in my opinion was the reason for ABC to create The Bat Man T.V. series. As the war with Vietnam was going on and the Flower Power youth rebelling against this senseless level of violence and lost of life, Bat Man's role was to be a type of Father figure for Robin to teach how he and his generation can work together for a common cause. This was the true purpose of this type of stories. But All Star Bat Man and Robin took on a more Grimmer Side of The Dark Knight then it would ever need to be.
It should be called Batman: Breaking Bad. I am goddamn batman, you goddamn right
"Hey kid, get in, we're cooking meth"
"Who are you?!"
"Im the goddamn Batman"
DAMMIT DAMIAN
Millers biggest weakness was (and still is) trying to write multiple characters in a series. Miller writing comics, such as Daredevil, Batman, Elektra, and Sin City, focuses only on ONE character. On one character, Miller's writing is brilliant because he can actually be in more depth with them. However, in Dark Knight II and this series, he was trying to bring other characters in the show the impact of what Batman did and it just got lost.
Some writers are great for team books. Miller was trying to be one in a solo character book and it fell flat. No wonder he had help in Dark Knight III.
Frank Miller was my personal hero growing up. I believed, I still do, that he is easily one of the finest creators to ever grace the medium! It breaks my heart to see him turn into a parody of himself.
I share your heartbreak, friend.
He was great but damn he has fallen from grace big time
@@captainjakemerica4579 In the 80's he was GOD! No one could touch him! Not even Alan Moore!
I do like the idea of batman being brutal and mean and well crazy but not a killer is interesting and having robin be the reason he realizes that he is too brutal and horrible to criminals is an amazing concept for a comic. And i would love to see that done well
When people whine about Jared Leto being the worst Joker ever, I point them to this comic. At least Leto's Joker laughed, smiled and had some fun with being insane and evil. This Joker internally waxes poetical about how much he loves the city and loves the women he kills, and damnedest of all, says in all sincerity something which no version of the Joker would EVER say: "They call me the Joker. But I'm not very funny."The only thing about the Joker this comic gets right are the skin, hair and purple clothing, but it doesn't matter when the actual characterisation is such a gloomy stick in the mud. I'm assuming the plan was to have Joker become more and more fun-loving the more and more he interacted with Batman (as was done so much better in TDKR), but by the time they'd have bothered to get round to that in the final two issues, I think it would have been too little too late.
Yeah, Jared Leto's wasn't the best, but it was okay, especially compared to some others.
The comic was cancelled, so we'll never know.
People are generally talking about movie actors dude, otherwise there's just too many incarnations of the joker to bring into this discussion
@@chiyo-chanholocaust8143 Even then, he's nowhere near the worst. I think he's better than Brent Spiner. But I honestly believe that- considering the Joker's multiple facets- there has been no bad Joker performance.
@cr87129 Zack Snyder's Batman would, at the very least, not abuse and terrify a just orphaned child. The Metropolis destruction scene alone is proof of this.
Back when Frank Miller lost his mind.
Correction: THE exact moment that Frank Miller lost his mind, shortly after he lost his wife Lynn Varley.
@InfamousCrimes Nope...the divorce was in 2002. The Spirit happened because Robert Rodriguez had made the grave error of convincing Miller he was a director by fighting to give him director credit on Sin City. So that misbegotten film can only be considered part of the Pilgrin's Regress that's been Miller's downward spiral.
@@BuildinWings Does he still have a career? I thought he thankfully retired now.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 Nope. He previously made Superman Year One with John Romita Jr
He went nuts after 9/11 the effects of being in NY when that happened really broke him
I bought the trade paperback of this thing waaaaaaay back in the day. I was expecting a rollocking, fun, Batman adventure and instead I got Frank Miller's confused fan fiction of his own work. I'm not a big fan of his to begin with, just so you know. This was my first exposure to his comics wriiting. Can't say I was that enamoured, but I will say that *DKR* was a *very necessary work* for the superhero genre, just like *Watchmen.* Unlike Moore though, *Miller now misses the point of his own book.*
I legitimately think the biggest problem (aside from the stuff you so rightly mentioned, story/structure-wise) was that Miller forgot that DKR was a *very specifically-targeted deconstruction* that only really works as a singular story. *"Batman, Superman and the other DC heroes shouldn't reach a point of becoming degraded monsters by ignoring moral grey areas."* Great point, prime foundation for reconstruction under the right author. However, I think Miller was the *wrong choice* for All-Star, because he always misses the intrinsic core of a *straightforward* version of a superhero: *a deep inner kindness, fantasy and optimism.*
*Morrison's All-Star Superman* is, I think, flawed in places, but feels truly like the character because it embraces the fun imagination and the childlike innocence that made him so popular. Miller is known for *one very different take on Batman* - be it Year One or DKR, which as you pointed out, he sees as one big continuity of his own - and I just don't think he understands (not anymore anyway) what made Batman so popular before he came along.
Miller may not have invented a grittier Batman (that would be Denny O'Neill), but he did create a reasonable boundary for that grittiness. A boundary nobody was meant to cross, but did anyway in the name of *dreadful spectacle.* I'm not going to lie, *I despise* the last 30 years of the angry, brutal, loner version of Batman that throws Robin into volcanos, is good at everything (especially kicking ass) and whose rogues gallery becomes increasingly violent and inhuman every issue. I'm just baffled they didn't get someone like *Paul Dini,* who has proven himself with writing all things Batman time and time again, to write the All-Star version. Like many, the *Animated Batman* - for the first three seasons anyway - is my definitive Caped Crusader. Simply because he's *a fairly balanced human being,* living in a world that hasn't gone *completely-off-the-rails grim.*
Going on what you were saying about whether this was meant as *satire,* a friend of mine coined this idea: *You can't build a work around making fun of something only to end up doing it yourself.*
I agree with your notion of *Robin keeping Batman grounded,* but the story kicks him around too much. It's this weird, prevalent, angry attitude - expressed by an unsettling portion of the fanbase - that insists Robin *should be dead or shouldn't exist at all.* Personally, I think Robin is a case of "good idea, needs better execution", but that's a different story.
Anyway, I don't see *All-Star Batman & Robin* as a deconstruction or parody in the slightest, because it's clearly too indulgent and unaware of itself. To me, Miller doesn't want to *make fun* of old comics, or himself, *he's playing it frightening straight.* He believes his own publicity. He believes that he's created the definitive version of the character, because those particularly-vocal, obsessive fans say so, creating a massive revisionist history that has us here, right now, talking about this very comic.
If all his other superhero works - DKSB, Holy Terror, or even that awful Superman thing he did recently - are anything to go by, I sincerely believe he is a *not suited* to the genre. He had one good idea back in the day, but now that idea has taken root and dragged the DC universe in an dark underworld it should have escaped years ago.
Thank you for allowing me to rant here. 😁
No joke: first two comics I read as a child was this and Killing Joke. I was like 8. Hated this comic. Read it a decade later assuming I’d just misunderstood it. Hated it more the second time I read it.
this will always be my favorite "so bad it's good" Batman story
"Borderline psychotic?" I think you'd have a hard time selling that there's anything "borderline" about it.
I remember when this book dropped. I was so excited for it but when I started reading it I was just lost. I found myself thinking this isn't Batman. This Batman was completely nuts. It was so disappointing and you just never knew where the story was taking you.
This series made me quiet comics and just continue with the film's instead
Even if it was shit and crazy it still bothers me that it was never completed
I enjoy this in a so bad it’s good way. It is so ludicrous that I’m surprised that it made it past DC editorial. Given that Dan Didio is Co-Publisher of DC really says a lot.
what's the significance of Dan Didio being co-publisher?
@@bravoalley228 Oh, my friend, if only you knew what a loaded question that was.
A whole lot of things pal.
There's no way this book would have gotten passed the likes of Julian Swartz when they're EIC. In fact, they'd probably tell him to go back and redo the whole damn thing.
Basically that question answered itself at "Frank Miller." Which is impressive given that it hadn't even reached the question part yet there.
No one remembers Miller's Give Me Liberty. A shame, but I admit it is hard to reconcile the man who wrote it with the man who wrote Holy Terror.
I remember Give Me Liberty, consider it his finest work even if it was Dave Gibbons on the art. And speaking as someone who was once a regular on his Sin City letter column, it is sad to watch what he has become.
The one thing I can say I think is an interesting idea is a Batman who grins and smiles the whole time with a joker who never once does so himself. It’s a neat flip of the usual dynamic
There’s nothing “Allstar” about this series.
It's like when written was soo drunk because his wife left him,he just made a comic to make feel sick
To be honest, it's one of the most entertaining and B action movie extravaganza comic book series I have ever read!!! I adore this series,it's offbeat & non traditional theme as well as it's character interaction,depiction& exhilarating pace,what a awesome experience!!! Truly one of the BEST satires I've ever got my hands on in a comic,it's everything you wouldn't& shouldn't expect in such a iconic figure. It was like the energizer bunny,all over the place& I got such a kick out of it :-) THE G.D. BATMAN!!!!
Yeah there's a lot of fanboys who take their comics WAY to seriously and need to remove the stick from their bum.
Exactly Miller screwed up bad storytelling. Jim carries the series with beautiful artwork
And, as Lee found out in his Image days, pretty pictures only get you so far.
I remember genuinely enjoying this when i first read it. The whole bit with GL and the yellow room and batsuit and lemonade had me cracking up. I enjoyed the alternate take on Batman as just a nasty adrenaline junkie
Agreed. I can see where it would trigger "sensitive" types, or people that say, "They're graphic novels not comic books!" lol
@@ravendarklawgaming197
Support the death of humanity
Do the right thing
Mike Cunningham well no cause it goes against the entire point of what batman is
Raven Darklaw it’s nothing to do with that man it’s that this is too far for batman
Please tell me your joking right ?
When I saw him saying “I love being the goddamn Batman” I thought it was some doppelganger or something
I was 14 when I first read All Star Batman and Robin and I genuinely thought it was a weird parody for years
This is the perfect example of "subversive writing =/= good writing"
Crazy Steve vs Jake Skywalker
Yep! Frank Miller shall be remembered as one of the greatest comic book writers of all time, as well as a cautionary tale of retiring before losing it completely. I still keep my 10 issues of this series, but only because Jim Lee's pencils are superb. Now I only browse the pictures and avoid the text at all cost. I would say I skip the story, but there ain't any.
Frank Miller always had issues with writing his main characters as sociopaths, and after he wrote Sin City well, he never really stopped writing Sin City. I have seen a person try to defend Dark Knight Strikes Again by saying Frank is realistically depicting a person who dresses up like a bat, but none of that explains why Batman is actually presented as an effective force against evil if he's so deranged, or why other superheroes are in the comic and are depicted as so incompetent just to make him look better.
The same thing occurs in ASBAR, the other "heroes" only seem to exist to make Batman look better by comparison. There is no reason for them to be here, Hal Jordan is only in the comic because Frank hates Green Lantern, and had him defeated by a weakness that the comics did away with years before the issue came out. But why should I expect a writer to take a jab at another character to actually something as simple as a Wikipedia check to make sure their information is up to date.
Denny O'Neill and Neal Adams brought back the Dark Knight Miller turned Batman into a borderline psychopath.
I think he crossed the borderline, except for chainsawing cheerleaders.
Jokerz 79 THANK YOU! Miller’s Batman has always been a fucking mess.
Miller's best work IMO is hands down 80s Daredevil. His Batman (even in the 80s) is...... well not great
@@josesarango3408 Say that Frank Miller batman wasn't great in 80s( Dark Knight returns and Year One) is just insanity, you may not liked but these are two of the most iconic and
influential comics ever made
Bats/Bruce has always been sailing pretty close to the wind, psychologically speaking. but has consistently used the inner dichotomy of Bruce / Bats to negotiate a path through the minefield of trauma conditioned alter egos, back-up emergency personas, guilt, rage, and doubt, that make up the psycho-structural dynamics of Batman / Bruce Wayne. The Batman side of the coin IS an adaptive psychopath. And Bruce Wayne is the shallow playboy with the exceptional privileges of wealth, education, and an almost supernatural talent for logistics, tactical planning, and self discipline. As separate entities, Bruce Wayne and Batman are always just one blink away from madness. But the synergetic working relationship between Bruce Wayne and Batman generally finds a way to get through the day without slipping into pathologically dysfunctional levels of Batshit. And even that eventuality is covered, with Bruce Wayne having reserved a nice warm rubber room at Arkham, just in case. Idk if he's still got it though, he might have had to toss Frank Miller in there as a pre-emptive measure against going "All Star" again.
Owen, your channel is absolutely one of the best on UA-cam. Your analyses are both thought provoking and quite entertaining at once. Thank you!🧐
Thank you so much!
Point of parody was already when Batman cringed at a boy: "you've been drafted for a war"
Why does Batman look like Palpatine after he electrocuted his face off in The Dark Knight Strikes again?
That was actually because Batman got beaten up at one up during the story.
If they do continue this series, they need to rename it to "All Star Crazy Steve & Dick Grayson, Age 12"
Miller made a mess while Lee made it a pretty one.
Also, it's ironic how the Allstar line was meant to be something where artists didn't have to worry about being limited or bogged down by continuity. And yet Miller *still* did that to himself, he forced the story into an awkward spot because he desperately wanted it to be attached to his other Batman stories and thus he made an already messy story into an even bigger one.
To be fair, all of the dialogue that was sus, (short for suspect) and weird, made me laugh a lot. That's just me. Great job on your voice over for Scott's recent Superman video, by the way.
"Old man yells at cloud" that's what I think encapsules what frank Miller does
I always thought that DC Comics should have made All-Star Comics as an on-going monthly comic book title again. They could have made it feature Wonder Woman again just like the time when she had first appeared in All-Star Comics, Vol. 1, No. 8, December, 1941.
It could have Leah Moore as the writer and Amanda Connor as the illustrator and the comic book could have been about Princess Diana of Themyscira a.k.a. Diana Prince showing that over the decades of her being an Amazon, an average American civilian citizen and a costumed, super-powered super-heroine, she is starting to become bitter, hardened and cynical.
Her career as a professional crime fighter and a professional adventuress is slowly leaving the Superman route, and slowly entering the Batman route of being an anti-heroine. They could have shown a very jaded, sullen and withdrawn Agent Diana Prince who is little by little losing hope for the human race. But she, as an enlightened person who still seeks to achieve world peace somehow, still tries to believe in a better world, even if she knows that she, as an ancient female Greek warrior, is not meant to ever be a part of such a world, or perhaps even see it.
A comic book like that would have been such a good read.
I think by this point Frank Miller was like Marlon Brando as Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now. Jim Lee had to travel up the River by boat and go into the Jungle to find Miller (who had obviously gone insane)I andt get a new chapter of the so called story!
The horror...the horror...
frank lost his comicbook writing mind
Jim Lees work was magnificent
This is why I prefer Alan Moore when it comes to Batman stories he knows what he’s doing and he created the greatest graphic novel of all time.
Some of the greatest comic art ever, offset by some of the most baffling writing.
What went wrong? Here's the the simple answer: Frank Miller
All-Star Batman & Robin is the most fun and rock&roll Batman story of all time.
Frank Miller became too iconic for a regular comics editor to edit, especially with a DC management big-shot doing the art. Together, nobody could tell them "no", and the story suffered for it. We see the same thing in movies, like when Peter Jackson became so big nobody could tell him that King Kong had 30 minutes in the middle that served no story purpose. Or George Lucas getting too carried away with Anakin's "yippees". Same thing. Nobody could tell them "no".
Miller's dialogue, content, and style were outdated by this point. Of course, it makes for a nice Rick and Morty take.
Exactly, may have worked in the 80s or early 90s. Timing is everything in art.
When was Frank Miller’s artstyle ever in date it’s scratchy, ugly and awful, Peppa Pig has a more advanced artstyle Frank’s just looks like doodles
@@mrcritical6751 Frank Miller's skills have markedly deteriorated in the last 25 years. When he was doing Daredevil, he was responsible for one of that book's finest runs: tight gritty superhero fiction with a good lock on who the characters were and sharp artwork. His Wolverine and Ronin miniseries are still rightly held up as some of his best work in comics and he was just about at his apex with The Dark Knight Returns. But starting with Sin City, he started getting sloppy. After 9-11, he went nuts. His artwork started getting about as bad as Rob Liefeld's and all he could write about were violent psychopathic "heroes" and cheap whores populating a bleak nihilistic world. He just doesn't care anymore.
Even his artstyle in TDKR is awful it looks super scratchy there’s a reason Lego mocked the proportions of his characters when they made TDKR Batman playable in Lego Batman 3
@@mrcritical6751 It was his artwork in The Dark Knight Strikes Again that was awful. Not only scratchy, as you'd call it, but the anatomy was all over the place, as if Miller had forgotten how a human body is actually structured. The character illustrations were inconsistent. He wasn't sticking to his own models and it was as if he just rushed through the whole thing.
The weirdest part was how they'd keep having a scene then jumping back a few hours and then jump back a few hours before that. In the time it took to drive to the Batcave, there was time for Dick to be reported missing, get milk cartons printed with his picture on them, filled, distributed to supermarkets, and for Clark Kent to buy one and put it in his fridge the night before reading the article on Dick's kidnapping.
Maybe it's because I haven't read it in a while, or maybe it's Lee's art, but I remember really enjoying this, there were elements I didn't like, forced character introductions and so on, but it was unfinished and we never saw the full pay off. It was an alternative take to the character, one that I found quite fascinating, he loved been the god damn Batman!
And as always, great video OLC
The Dark Knight Strikes again tie in is very troublesome. It says that trauma and abuse turns you into a worse version of what caused the trauma. The former victim is only left to cause more trauma and arguably worse trauma.
I think what's most worrisome about it is that Dick clearly undergoes a traumatic experience in All Star (as a result of Bruce's abusive treatment of him up until #9), and yet in TDKSA, Dick is presented as the villain, and that Batman was entirely justified for leaving him. It's weird, for sure.
@@OwenLikesComics also very true. Either way tying these two series together presents troubling messages about abuse, abusers, victims, and trauma.
@@kaiwilliams141 yeah I just like to pretend that the so-called ties all of Miller's out of continuity works have to one another is non-existent (it's the only way I can read the whole Dark Knight Returns trilogy without perceiving Batman as some awful psychopathic monster)
an excellent piece of work from you. I will expand on this tomorrow morning after some rest and reflection. But one thing I want to say is perhaps the dream teams we conjure up in reality do not always work out so well because the chemistry between the artists and writers do not always compliment each other. Whilst David Aja and Matt fraction worked, miller and lee did not,which had an adverse effect on the all star range of batman stories they tried to tell
Am I the only one who thinks this comic is freaking hilarious?
What happened to Frank Miller!? Seriously! I read some of his later works and when I finally read The Dark Knights Return, I couldn't believe he wrote it. I still can't believe he went from that master piece to....whatever the hell he's writing now.
The art of this comic is amazing though!
Stumbled upon this vid. Great analysis and critique. Very much enjoyed it!
Thanks Quinton, glad you enjoyed it! There's plenty more videos like this on the channel if you're interested.
I appreciate you taking the time to be balanced by weighing pros and cons, making connections, and exploring possible explanations as opposed to just shitting on it. I happen to enjoy All-Star Batman a lot, so it's always disappointing that not everyone can pick out something of merit for themselves to enjoy about it. It shows you're a critical thinker and not just going for an easy dunk on low-hanging fruit. I'm going to subscribe and check out some more of your videos based on this credibility. A lot of these types of videos are either "I LOVE IT AND YOU'RE STUPID" or "I HATE IT AND YOU'RE STUPID", so this is refreshing. Thanks!
Thank you so much! Critical thinking and somewhat- objective examinations of topics is what I aim to do on the channel; like you said there's enough videos online of people shitting on things for the sake of it, so my mission statement is to be more nuanced and offer up the facts and my two cents, but ultimately let you, the viewer, decide for yourself. Hope you do sub and stick around!
Outstanding work as always 👍
What went wrong?
He wrote the God-awful piece of trash.
I'm not surprised cause this is the same guy who wrote Holy Terror
The main problem is that they got Frank Miller to write the thing. Miller’s usefulness as a comic book writer ended a long time ago, and nobody seems willing to acknowledge it.
Think the better tag line should be: “What EVEN went RIGHT??”
Regardless of how convoluted and strange The Dark Knight Strikes Again and All Star Batman and Robin, I genuinely enjoyed Jim Lee’s art, especially with Batman, Black Canary, and Wonder Woman.
This served as a fancy “What if Batman was psychotically egotistic like the Punisher?”
I think All Star Batman and Robin was needed to help salvage The Dark Knight Strikes Again by illustrating how messed up Frank Miller’s Batman was in early years to lead to Dick Grayson’s abuse; however it still begs the question how the heck did Batman eventually outgrow his sadistic behavior to become the true hero of The Dark Knight Returns?
Oh boy...When I first heard Frank Miller was going to write a new Batman story and Jim Lee was going to do the art, I knew it was going to be something very special. I just didn’t know it was going to be bad special.
Honestly this comic is a guilty pleasure for me. In a peculiar kind of way, I like it.
Maybe I’m weird but I liked it. It obviously wasn’t a traditional batman story and I liked that they were doing like an alternate more dark and insane version of batman.
Me seeing the subscription feed
Me: Oh hey it’s a new Owen Likes Comics video and it’s on... All-Star Batman and Robin?! Hell yeah!
hahaha thank you, Nick! Hope the video lived up to expectations.
Dude thanks for touching on this subject. I admit wasn’t miller’s best but I wanted it to at least finish to the end. I saw Jim lee years ago around that time and asked him about this book continuing and he told me that it was gonna finish and shortly after they fully canceled I was disappointed because regardless of the delays the story just couldn’t carry the whole weight. I actually liked it enough to want to see it end because of the science of the book going back to a golden age more violence Batman and the previous Miller writes on Batman. Thanks again awesome review
Love the video @Owen Likes Comics, can't wait to see your next video and I will always keep reading comics until I'm 50 years old.
David Dyster why stop at 50? 😐
Because @@DravenG96 I might be to old to keep up with comics and the comic industry might be gone before I'm old.
you're never too old, David! Thanks for the kind words btw.
Thank you@@OwenLikesComics . I can't wait for your next videos on Spider-Man The Clone Saga and The Death and Return of Superman.
I used to think 50 was old when I was a kid. I'm 63 now and still love comics.
What went Wrong? Nothing. The Book is amazing. Probably the greatest comedy comic in the history of DC
Your fucking kidding me right? Next youll be saying holy terror is a master piece
@@emperorsean1 dude your an idiot
People still think this book was meant to be serious, when it's actually an alternate universe parody in the style of sin city where all the heroes are crazy or dumb. It's funny as hell.
@@batsnakerodriguez1661 Or maybe you're trying so hard to give Miller credit he doesn't deserve to cover up the fact that he failed.
@@johnathonhaney8291 Nah, I'm not a Miller fan. I don't care about him. But from the general tone of ASBAR, I just read it as a funny parody.
Vicky vale's characterisation at the start of the book (The things she says, the way she reacts when alfred calls her) gives you a hint of what the book is going to be like. Then batman's first appearance at the end of the first chapter confirms it.
And have you seen black canary's first appearance at the bar? Just by looking at it, you realise it's an over the top, ridiculous thing. It's pretty obvious this is a comedy book. And since Sin City has a similar over the top humour style, i'm guessing that's what the book was always meant to be.