I love the scene where Batman paints himself, Robin, and the whole room yellow to de-power Green Lantern, and then sips lemonade while lying to Hal’s face that Robin wasn’t Dick Grayson With a smug smile across his face. Hilarious.
Conversely, this scene lost me. I don’t buy this silver age silliness from the grimdark character that was screaming at a child sidekick in the prior issue. The tonal shifts are jarring. I hope they leave it unfinished and perpetually tardy.
@@Archon3960 Hal's ring (and almost all GL rings) cannot affect anything yellow. At all. The lore reason is that the Guardians put it in as a safety factor. Allan Scott, the first Earth lantern (Golden Age lantern) had a ring that could not affect wood! Kyle Rayner's ring does not have any such limitation.
@@Archon3960 It’s an old silver age weakness. Oddly, people think this is the first time Batman has done this but I swear it’s an homage to an older panel.
Jim Lee is apparently a really fantastic and stand up guy, this guy mentioned he dropped his sketchbook to see if Lee could review. Lee personally returned it, complimented the guy on his skill and then drew a 2 page spread in the book
Eh, considering how the story came out I think Frank Miller lost interest BEFORE he was hired to write this. As an artist and designer myself, I totally get it. I've taken on side projects for a paycheck and regret making that commitment the entire time I'm working on it. All I could think about was finishing this lame-duck project so that I can jump back on the one I'm more passionate about. At this time, Miller outgrew Batman and already told his story. To have a Miller story illustrated by Lee seems to be an awful mix, to begin with.
Miller wasn't even the first writer assigned to this project. Originally DC wanted to have Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee re-team after the success of "Hush". But Loeb was not available so Miller was asked to come on board. I agree with you and that Miller and Lee were a bad combo, especially since I've long stated that ASBAR as written by Miller is a dark comedy drawn as a completely straight action movie by Lee.
@@albion65 I honestly don't buy the "dark comedy" excuse. It's like watching an unintentional bad film (e.g. The Room, Troll 2) where due to cult status it's somehow shifted into comedy status despite it not being the original intent.
@@albion65 All star batman and Robin was *not* intended as a dark comedy. That's the same BS excuse every writer/artist uses when they make something shitty that blows up. If you want to read and enjoy it as that then sure, but this was fully meant to be a brand new mainstream batman comic for fans. Don't make excuses for it.
Also the video clearly states frank Miller took on the project as an act of passion. Money wasn't an obstacle for him at this point in his fame, your experience as smaller struggling designer really isn't comparable to what Frank was thinking about/doing.
@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero That's someone's opinion whether Miller was passionate of a project or not. Just like it's your opinion that my side projects are nickel and dimes. Money isn't always the driving factor for a project. However, I can tell you that there are times when a creative person can be swayed into a project only for momentum to be completely lost after the commitment has been agreed upon. A major factor can be other great projects in queue that cannot be attended to until this lame-duck obligation is met first. It can also be real life situations that must be dealt with but unfortunately, the train is already in motion for said project. Either way, it's easier to come to the conclusion, considering all of Miller's past work, that he may have blown through this story just to get it over and done with. The "dark comedy" angle is silly.
I remember buying this comic when it first came out thinking it was going to be like the best thing ever. You had Jim Lee who's an astounding artist and he just got off of Hush with Geoff Loeb. On top of that, Frank Miller's a legend. I don't think I need to say anymore. That being said, this book was a massive disappointment. However, I do say the artwork is fantastic. And it's spawned one of the earliest internet memes 'I'M THE GODDAMNED BATMAN'. That is the only good that I could say came out of this book.
Literally my reaction to reading it was a progressively astonishing of "What the fuck?" It starts weird and gets weirder. But yes, the art was great. Love the scene in the yellow room for the art, but (most) certainly not for the story!
@@lexslate2476 Yeah I don't really like Miller at all. Like I like Year One but that's about it. I think the guy was always crazy and tbh the cracks were showing as early as TDKR.
the problem with the comedic weird moments is that everything surrounding it is overly mean spirited and causes a mild tonal whiplash. if Allstar Batman was a tongue-in-cheek series or if they toned down Jerkass Batman it would have been received a lot warmer. at least we got THE GODDAMNED BATMAN out of this comic series.
If you have a version of Batman that you couldn't see comforting a child, you do not have Batman. You have Frank Castle who wandered in to the wrong book and put on another guy's suit.
@@lexslate2476 fucking bingo. This is nail on head. Bruce Wayne isn't the punisher, despite what Miller seems to think. He's not a psychopath, a sadist, a child abuser, etc. To depict him as such, even in Frank Miller's fake "it's just satire bro" nonsense is a deep insult not only to the character, but also the reader. It's saying "this character that got famous for being just a guy who experienced trauma and is trying to make the world a better place but has problems is boring, what if he was a complete nutjob who made the world actively worse and displayed no likable qualities?" But what can you expect from Frank "I think using the R-word as a derogative word is Very Cool and Funny" Miller? Every story he's ever written has been reductive of the character he's writing. This is why the movies for TDRK are actually better. They strip out almost all of the diseased, mean spirited hate that Miller spews throughout the book and focuses on it being a story about batman, not a vehicle for Frank to yell. Shoutout especially for how utterly sickening Miller's treatment of Robin has been over the years, consistently portraying Bruce Wayne as a child abuser for... no reason other than he thinks that's definitely Cool. The idea of a bruce wayne who abuses children is even worse than Zack Snyder's ridiculously edgy "durr batman kills people" take. He was never meant to be an edgelord, the compassion is core to the character as a hero- What he is fundamentally cast as in mainline comics.
@@lexslate2476 I haven't read AS Batman and Robin, I've only seen online videos critiquing it but I've read a couple of Punisher comics (and seen him in a few event/teaming up comics) and he still seems way more sane and likeable. Hell even Moon Knight who's supposed to be literally insane seems more reasonable from what I've read lol.
@@isaacvargas3156 I feel much the same, and did so from issue #1. I'll also say...for good or ill...Frank started trolling his critics almost immediately in the book. "I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN" is a "thing" largely because people bitched about it, and Frank...laughing, I'm sure...said, "fine it's in every issue now."
Yeah, Frank may have been joking with the whole series. The way I see it, there are really two possibilities with this. The first is that Strikes again and ASBAR are parodies Miller made as a response to criticism he received with his portrayal of Batman in the dark knight returns, it makes sense seeing as Frank has always been a vocal writer (hence his political views appearing in his writing). The second possibility is that this really is the story Frank was trying to tell. Miller's Batman has always been crazy, it is one of the central archetypes of the universe. Sure, he has never been as particularly insane as he was in ASBAR nor has the dialogue been as bad, but being stubborn and insane, laughing while beating up criminals and treating crime like a war are things Miller's Batman has always done, even in year one.
For all of its flaws, i still think this comic has Jim Lees best art of his career, heightened by Alex Sinclairs colours and Scott Williams inks as always
Frankly, the excuse that these two were so "busy" and so popular that they couldn't finish the project, just tells me they should never done it in the first place.
The only good things to come out of this series was the art and the phrase "I'm the God damned Batman". The common usage of "Crazy Steve", coined by Linkara. Was also thanks to this series.
I work at a comic book store and we recently found a couple issues in our boxes of back issues to be processed and the store owner defended the book saying he’s a fan of it, so.... you’re not alone! There’s at least two fans of the book out there.
why is it do bad to like this book? its a good story that was more accurate to how batman would act if he was real. i dont know about you guys, but the tough and brooding batman who never smiles thing was getting boring. crazy batman is more likely to happen when you have a billionare with mental issues
Chris, it would be fascinating to see your take on Frank Miller's career trajectory over the years, with all the controversy included! Holy terror is such an insane book, it would be great to hear your thoughts in detail
"What are you going to do, tell the writer to rein it in??" Lol, yes. That's literally the job. "It was rock and roll from the beginning!" = We didn't have a plan and no one bothered scoping the project. These kinds of management problems certainly aren't unique to comics, but comics seems to be the only industry where no one considers them a problem. 😂😂
Miller's supposedly "intentional" humor is, I think, his strained and dreadfully contrived attempts at further adulterating and gutting Batman's mythos. That's what he was doing in Dark Knight Returns, but he did so with a unique and brilliant (at the time) concept for Batman that hadn't been seen before and he executed it with genuine purpose and vision. But by the time of All-Star Batman Miller had long been a shadow of himself (and not just physically). As a result instead of fully-realized ideas you get these desperately lazy and uninspired attempts to again recreate Batman, but only with outrageous (and outrageously stupid) dialogue and scenes that demean Miller's legacy more than Batman's. I think Miller has a love/hate relationship with the character that made him famous, and quite unlike someone like Alan Moore, Miller is too brutish and simplistic of a writer to be truly profound. So now he's just head-butting walls, but with considerably less force than when he was young and optimistic.
With all respect to your opinion, I think this was the hottest of hot garbage. People call it Jim Lee's best work but it's so distorted and over stylized in my opinion it looks pretty bad on many pages. The story is nonsensical and there's no way anything happens in the order you would expect it to based on what you have to read. Black canary, Batman, Vicki Vale, Robin, all of them are depicted horribly out of character for anything that they're intended. The Joker shows up with a chick who is his muscle, she's a Nazi with swastikas covering her boobs. The only reason why I feel this Comics old well was because of the talent involved making it. As you pointed out both of them were very hot off the presses at the time and fans would have bought it regardless. There were variant covers, there were reprints with ashcan additions, if you were a collector and they drive a lot of the comic Market, there was a lot here for you to try and collect on. Quite frankly I don't think anyone actually bought it to read it after the first couple of issues, and anyone who was reading it wanted to see where the train wreck would go next. I was a little late to the party, so I waited for a trade collection, and this was one of the few times I bought a comic that I felt dirty after reading it. If you're curious, the other two that I felt dirty reading where Old Man Logan and cross As for why it stopped? My opinion is that the comic started to attract a lot of unwanted negative attention once people started really reading it, and as soon as it became evident that with the superstars involved this thing was going to take forever to come out DC quietly decided to just let sleeping dogs lie. Which is a shame because this wound up killing the All-Star franchise.
Chris you are a far more forgiving man than me. I will never forget how the combination of this book, The Spirit, and Holy Terror all in a few years window made me despise Frank Miller as a mean-spirited xenophobic misogynistic dirtbag. By the time time The Master Race rolled around he seems to have lightened up a bit though. It should be mentioned to his credit however that Miller himself has said Azzarello was a big driving creative force behind DKIII.
'It was intentional.' Intentional. Well, yes, obviously. When a creator sets out to deliberately have a fifty-five year old folk hero behave in the most boorish, ugly, hate-filled way he can, the intention is clear. In an interview discussing 'The Dark Knight Returns,' Miller states "I just wanted him to be the guy nobody likes." And two decades later, mission accomplished. But I'm really not sure how that is a defense.
I could not and still can not see this Batman as "my" Batman, if that makes sense. And "my" Batman is pretty expansive. This version/vision just doesn't appeal to me.
Man, I used to love Frank Miller's stuff when I was younger. As I have gotten older his over the top sensibilities have worked less and less for me. Its weird. It seems like after DKR he read Brat Pack and was inspired to make all of his heroes more like the lead "heroes" on that book.
I never really "got" Miller's writing sensibilities (or art style, but that's a different topic), Year One being the exception. But latter-day Miller just seems to have completely doubled down on all his flaws.
Great ep, I actually had a lot of questions regarding this comic and you answered it all. I think the great fame of both writer and artist were the reason people had huge amount of expectations, and that's a double edge sword. The tone and the story were all over the place, Jim may have been the cause of the delays but his artwork was better than ever, not the same could be Frank Miller's writing. It's not that an over the top action packed "parody" of Batman can't be done, but the problems came that it seemed like there wasn't a clear style or storyline (other than Robin's origin story); sure it could be funny the way Batman talks like a self-aware Deadpool "I say what I want! I am a comic character!" Kind of humor, but in the next page there would be a dramatic 180 shift in tone and something really dramatic it would happen that would need the reader to engage it in a more serious way. And that is usually a dangerously fine line. I can understand the artist and even editorial liken it to something like a musical jam session with two legendary artist, wild and unpredictable by nature, but it was closer to have 2 famous musicians one giving it all and the other being totally drunk doing what in his mind he thought was cool but the audience just take it as him performing awful and sounding like a douche he gets mad when people boo him. I'm just using the analogy the assistant editor chose I'm not trying to judge any all of these artists personal life or artistic choices but trying to be objective about the art itself and what ultimately came to be.
I remember being bad buzz around one of the last issues published, where Batgirl was cursing like a sailor and editorial had to black those out after the fact, yet people could still read the words printed beneath the black boxes... I'm sure the general backlash against the abysmal quality of the comic had something to do with both Miller and Lee not wanting to stick with it.
"...but I also definitely wouldn't put it with something like Holy Terror." I would. ASBAR has better art than Holy Terror and it isn't a racist call to arms like Holy Terror (although with all of the misogyny, etc in ASBAR, its no surprise the two have the same author), but its just as nonsensical and poorly written as Holy Terror. So while ASBAR is better than Holy Terror, its still terrible.
Frank Miller had obviously gone insane while writing All Star Batman. Poor Jim Lee had to bring these delusions to life. The simple fact is that the beauty ofJim Lee's illustrations made the madness bearable.
Reading this book when I was younger, I was always confused at the last couple of issues and the story it was trying to tell. A weird tough love kind of dynamic where Bruce was attempting to create another version of himself but eventually softened up upon realizing the magnitude of those weird decisions and the determination of Dick’s character. It’s the beginning of a process where Batman’s aggressive, violent tendencies are smoothed over into something more heroic. I think if the material with Black Canary and maybe the Justice League were cut out, maybe instead developing Catwoman and the Joker, they could have made it into a pretty decent Batman and Robin: Year One type storyline that could have been as little as six issues.
The fact that Batman laughs maniacally while hurting people and the Joker never smiles or cracks a joke during any of his appearance suggests Miller was trying to do some kind of switch-a-roo thing with the two characters. Its a decent idea but its poor execution and lack of an ending to tie everything together just make the whole thing disgusting. I think Zack Snyder read this and decided this is the kind of character Batman is supposed to be, hence why we haven't had a decent Batman movie since 2008
@@architeuthis3476 "The fact that Batman laughs maniacally while hurting people and the Joker never smiles or cracks a joke during any of his appearance suggests Miller was trying to do some kind of switch-a-roo thing with the two characters." This has been Frank Miller's Batman and Joker since THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. It's totally consistent (which is what he said he was doing), and frankly, I find that Joker to be the most disquieting version of the character anyone's ever done.
I think the main issue with this is just how violent and aggressive he is with Robin like he locked him in a cave to starve and eat bats... That literally sounds like some s*** the league of assassins would do
13:27 - You CAN tell the writer to rein it in, that's literally what they pay you for. Dude's an editor, right? So edit. Let the writer write, let the editor edit.
Bc his work - even now - is still lightyears ahead of anything Tom King can even dream of. And compared to everything (!) the likes of Mags Versaggio, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Vita Ayala & Co have put out...well, it`s like watching some god at work! I really liked Holy Terror and ASBAR.
@@M.E.plusminus said "I really liked Holy Terror and ASBAR." Why would anyone like Holy Terror? Its hate speech in comic book form and the art isn't even good
@@architeuthis3476 His style has changed & even declined dramatically over the years, he got older and lost some of his talent (just like Byrne, Simonson, Chaykin..). But his art is still good enough and very interesting to look at (and it looks SO much better than that of most artists working currently for Marvel and DC - at least in my eyes..). As for the "hate speech" ...Holy Terror shows what acts of violence (= 9/11) can do to the heart and soul. What did you expect - a love letter? Of course it`s dumb to answer hate with hate, but it`s also very human & I understand the motivation behind his book; and also his dislike for a certain group of people. - Sorry for the long answer. ;)
I cannot agree less. That said, the additional context, the commentary provided by others, even later comments by Lee and Miller are important and NEVER discussed. I think people see two talented creators who made what can easily be cast as “well, Frank Miller be crazy” and enjoy dunking on Miller using this series without much post-facto context. That said. It’s pretty hard to take this as over the top when its tone is so consistent. And it is particularly impossible to believe Frank Miller was distracted by directing The Spirit, a film so bad that my brother, my father and I, who had started a biweekly tradition of going to the theater together, saw it in theaters and it was so awful it broke up our ongoing plans. That movie was inexcusably horrible. It felt “directed,” not directed. The goddamn Batman, his wtf tryst with Black Canary, the rats for Dick, it all sounds tonally consistent. Just atrociously bad writing. Not “over the top,” that would be Batman with a rocket-powered hang glider using predator missiles-if it’s meant to be over the top, it’s also a bad job, because it isn’t established. If you’re going that route, you NEED a moment, a panel, a page, a story beat that screams “did Batman tap a mugger on the shoulder and lightning struck? Oh. Ohhhh. Goddamn. Batman. God.. smote the criminal. Okay, we’re in interesting territory.” But that doesn’t truly exist here. There is no crystallizing element that clues the audience in to “yeah, we know this is a pretty nuts thing, just come along for the ride.” There’s Bruce insisting Dick would live in the cave and he’d need to hunt his food down. Y’know, newly orphaned, badly damaged and traumatized acrobat Dick Grayson, was gonna just eat rats now.
I seem to be the only person who dislikes The Dark Knight Returns. The fascist themes are ubiquitous and ruin any enjoyment I might get from the rest of it. I actually refer to it as _Batman Shurgged_ and have written a short essay comparing DKR to Ayn Rand.
@@architeuthis3476 Yeah I didn't notice it when I was 14, but rereading it as an adult the fascism is screamingly obvious. Not just in the way Batman way portrayed but the entire world Miller created - filled with barely human gangs of marauding teenagers - is a justification for any and all fascist violence to stop it.
Chris, will you ever do Morrison’s Invisibles. It literally contains every Morrison trope in existence and I think it’s under read and under appreciated.
Yeah, I don't buy for a second that guy's claim that this was supposed to be intentional comedy. It's like making the same claim about The Room. Better to admit that he likes this story despite its glaring, obvious problems than to pretend these aren't problems at all. This story is a mess and frankly I'm fine if it never gets finished. Whatever conclusion it comes up with cannot possibly undo all the awful things that this story did to all of its characters. With the possible exception of Plastic Man every character featured in this book is awful, dumb, incompetent, villainous or a combination of those. Nothing short of a complete reboot of the story could save those characters, and all that would accomplish would be to turn all the previous issues of this story into a waste of time. Anyway, it's still a nice, informative video and this explanation certainly sounds like the more likely one (though there's always a chance that behind-the-scenes politics are involved).
Me: Reads title of video. You mean asides from the fact that it was garbage that portrayed an iconic hero as a murderous psychopath who kidnaps twelve-year olds, calls them retarded, forces them to eat cave rats in order to survive, insults and belittles other heroes, and is more concerned with getting into pissing matches with everyone than actually do any good? Also, anyone who tries to pass this story off as a deconstruction can go right out the door. When did "deconstruction" become synonymous with "everyone is an asshole?"
If they were so busy, DC could have put out a release announcing there would be a delay. All I’m hearing are excuses and giving Lee and Miller a pass because they were stretched thin.
While I agree that the book is definitely meant to be a satire (I can imagine Miller thinking, "geez, you guys like this reckless, asshole version of Batman? OK, I'll give him to you times ten!") I disagree that it's actually funny. Miller's writing and tone in ASBAR are painfully mean-spirited, he punches down at his targets, and he's incapable of writing a female character whose inner/outer strength isn't immediately cast aside at the first sign of scoring hot dick. For a book that's trying to be funny, it ends up being no fun at all. I think the editing problems were probably a bigger factor in the book's quality than in its delays. The book features some of the worst aspects of both creators' styles. Lee's artwork has always been technically strong while having trouble with layouts, and that problem only amplified as he gained more and more clout, leaving editors with less power to rein him in and stop him from making twenty splash pages per issue. Cynics say Lee draws so many pinup pages because they sell better on the aftermarket, but I think he probably just likes drawing pinup/splash pages because they're easier (and probably more fun/satisfying to look at when they're done.) But it makes for a dull read.
This is one of the first comics I read as a kid. I picked it up off the bookshelf in Chapters and read it right there. The art was astounding but even as a young child I could tell I was reading something wrong and disturbing.
The alcohol abuse theory that you brush over is more than likely the most valid explanation. Creators are often driven by demons that both fuel creativity and ultimately destroy it.
There is absolutely no way that DC and Frank Miller himself intended for the book to be some kind of ironic "dark comedy". Miller's writing was trash, especially when compared to his own previous work. The editor dropped the ball by not doing his job, though to be fair to him, I don't think Miller's nonsense could be edited into coherence anyway.
Wow great episode! Heya can you do a piece on that awesome 1985 six issue LONGSHOT mini series by Arthur Adams that nobody remembers? Some of the best art ever 👍 Dude that would make the best movie! That was Arthur Adams in his prime, along with X-Men annual #9 & New Mutants special edition #1. Later, Bootsy
the problem with seeing it as not being supposed to be taken seriously is the fact that... it was not presented that way to people. it was sold as this pillar of the batman mythos, even frank miller considers it to represent what is batman... So, it is not like the creators consider it as a parody of batman, Frank Miller intended for this to be a book that represents all that is batman just as much as how all start superman does for the man of steel... but instead, we got an unintencional parody of the dark knight
It was intentional, it was poking fun at the stupidity of Batman comics Hed inadvertently caused. To him it was what Batman had become since dkr and he hated it. In the comic Batman is basically constantly called insane constantly which should clue you in to how miller felt about him.
@@Jiub_SN That would mean a lot of his work after that in which he has had creative control, has been a parody, and we know it wasn't, the dark knight strikes again, Holy terror, superman year one. All these were done honestly by him and they all have the same feel as ASBAR
I really lost a lot of respect for these guys on this project. How could such a great writer and artist team, with such strong established reputations, so totally butcher one of the greatest fictional characters ever created? Some of the writing really makes one think they'd barely heard of Batman and knew very little about him.
If you look back at Miller's history, a lot of the bonkers stuff in this series had its roots in his earlier work. Superman being an incompetent goon and Batman an omni-competent demigod able to make him look like a fool (Dark Knight Returns / Rises), the worship of masculinity and Manly Men Making Hard Choices (Sin City, 300), or women being defined by sex or finding the protagonist irresistible (Sin City, Batman Year One). I seem to remember it just went more and more off the rails after the World Trade Centre attacks--the utterly vile "Holy Terror" wouldn't come too long after this (with not-Batman sadistically murdering and torturing terrorists in between banging not-Catwoman), and it's the apex of Miller's obsessions completely devouring his work. It's why I can't really enjoy this book. There's not a single hint of self-awareness from Miller about what's he's doing here. This really does seem to be what he thinks Batman should be like.
hahaha miller was never good any decent literary criticism will reveal the total hollowness behind 100% of his work. he's a flashy hack and probably an actual fascist
I don't generally care for Linkara, but his Frank Miller series is probably the best critique of that particular author out there. Strongly recommended!
As crazy as it sounds, I’d kinda like to see it’s official ending one day. I mean, it’s an awfully hilarious series, but I actually kinda dig the ideas in the story & Frank’s take on the Batman characters in his world, I dare say it could’ve been great. If frank didn’t seem to be on crack when he wrote it lol. And in my opinion, it’s the best art jim lee has ever done in a comic.
@@architeuthis3476"i actively didn't support the series because i didnt like it, but now i want then to finish it" lmao the reason it didnt get finished was because of people like you in the first place
The comic is complete garbage (other than the gorgeous artwork), but I, too, would be interested in seeing its conclusion - just like you can't look away in the middle of a trainwreck.
I don't know, maybe it's because I always felt like Frank Miller was overrated, but I think as a professional if you're going to start a story and have fans pay for it, you should at least have the decency to go ahead and finish the story.
I like comparing this to All-Star Superman and the depiction of the lead character whenever it comes up in conversation. All-Star Superman is usually regarded as one of the best depictions of The Man of Steel, celebrating his Silver Age origins, along with his willingness to go out of his way to help the people of Metropolis with their daily lives. It shows Superman being the character many of us grew up with. All-Star Batman & Robin depicts Batman at his absolute WORST. Over the top parody or not, it wasn't advertised as such. It also feels like Frank Miller was trying to justify the resentment his take on Batman has in the Dark Knight universe by depicting him as an Unhinged Psychopath (I know that phrase gets throw about quite often when talking about this Batman... Honestly, nothing else fits). He does one kind act to Dick Grayson (Age 12) in the series... Allowing him to mourn at the Grave of his parents for just a moment... But this is blunted by the fact earlier in the same issue, he threw him into a wall after and punched him in the face hard enough to bloody his nose (After he stood by while Dick was beating the shit out of Green Lantern, crushing his windpipe in error).
Because it's a travesty of a book. Artwork aside, The only reason this book is even a discussion is because it has Miller's name attached to it. If this was penned by some smaller or new writer at the time, He or she would have been ripped to shreds and possibly never have work again, but because it's Miller, Creator of one of, If not the best graphic novel of all time, He gets a pass as well as defenders of this book.
Wow, you give Frank a lot more credit then I think he deserves. Frank's more recent work has made me like his past work even less. I used to like TDK and Sin City, when I thought they were pointed satire. I've come to realize that they are actually pretty straight forward and Frank is just really down for fashy ideas. After 9-11 he just got more explicit with the ugliness of what he believes. No one can read Holy Terror and think he is alright, it's amazing he still gets work after that book.
Sooooo basically it was never finished cause the editors at DC didn't have the balls to tell Miller and Lee to sit down, shut up, and finish what they started, got it!
Honestly I just don't think DC was in the position to offer either of the two an ultimatum. Both Miller and Lee could afford to never work for DC again, but DC really couldn't afford to lose either of them.
@@kevingriffith6011 well kissing their ass didn't get the book finished either. Maybe the answer was they should have gotten a different creative team. Alan Davis and Mark Farmer spring to mind.
@@albion65 Pretty much that, yeah, either find a new team or expand the team to better divide the workload. Of course then you don't get the boost that comes from having Miller and Lee's names on it, but at least the book gets done.
@@kevingriffith6011 well Brian Azzarello seems to be the guy who can keep Miller focused enough to finish a book or execute Miller's concepts in a book without it losing it's Miller voice.
The editor saying that he couldn't tell Frank Miller "no " on Batman's characterization was VERY revealing. This story is a mess. Not a The Dark Knight Strikes Again-level mess, but certainly a DKIII level mess. At least the art is unimpeachable.
I can't say this book was good, but I'll say it was fun to read, and on top of that it had some of the best work of Jim Lee's career imo. Would love to see a conclusion some day
“You can’t tell the writer to rein it in.” Yes, you can. You can strongly suggest it, at least. That’s what good editors do. The answer seemed bloated with apologetics.
I was there when Miller talked about it at Comic con in 2015, got me so hyped for it since I’m also in the minority of people that want this continued.
Oh wow, well, as someone who watches Linkaras coverage of ASBAR several times a year at this point, I certainly learned a lot here. I didn't realize that at the time of the comics production Frank Millar was working on Sin City. That aside, considering how progressive or a person you are, I'm surprised that you're a fan of Frank Miller. You don't see him as disturbingly insane, bigoted fascist? You also think that ASBAR is comedy? I'd really like to understand why you don't look at him this way.
I’m in the minority with you. When I got back into comics it was because I read The Long Halloween and Batman was in the early stages of Morrison’s run, so I went back and read Hush and All Star Batman and Robin, All 4 were completely different and completely wonderful in their own way. I can say I probably wasn’t delusional in enjoying it as DKR was one of the last books I read going into college and it ranks at the greatest book I had read. DK2 I read when it came out and just didn’t like it at all, DK3 was disappointing but not as bad as DK2, and ASB&R was right in the middle. I loved the take on the characters and hated that it was never finished, but I own the Absolute and do appreciate what we were lucky enough to have. The Green Lantern issue will always be a favorite of mine. It was over the top. Gloriously. Thank you for this video!
I feel if Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale can finish up the storyline for Batman: The Long Halloween 25 years after it was originally published, then Miller & Lee can return for the final 2 issues of All Star Batman & Robin. And btw, in the Long Halloween 1 shot special we find out who the Holiday Killer was and it was a fullfilling conclusion. Now, if only ORC STAIN can get an ending!!!
@@prajwaljayaraj5887 It’s called BATMAN: THE LONG HALLOWEEN SPECIAL # 1. It was only released a couple weeks ago. I’m not going to spoil the end. It’s fittingly tragic.
Great epidode! I had heard a lot of mixed reviews of this comic from friends but none of them could exactly put a finger on why it didn't quite work, despite A+ talent involved. This cleated a lot up! Thanks, Chris!
Maybe it is me that by the period ASBAR started coming out I had been skeptical of Miller's writing for 10 years already. I felt Sin City was a great visual masterpiece but the stories paled by comparison to Born Again, Year One or Dark Knight Returns and the writing quality kept decreasing with the books coming out. 300 was again a great visual and fight choreography work but lacked the writing and plotting that amazed me in the Eighties. I still liked his work but it wasn't as good as it used to be for me. Then this came out together with Dark Knight Strikes Back and, worse, Holy Terror and cemented my view that his best work that I admired, and still do, was in the past. There are some moments here and there, even the sarcasm sometimes rings a bell but at the time this came out I wasn't expecting another masterpiece.
If editors cannot tell a writer to rein it in, then why have an editor? I do not care what kind of "legend" you have working on a book. Editors have a job to do and they cannot shirk it because of the popularity of the writer or artist. And if the editor cannot do the job, find another who can. The book was bad from the beginning. Someone higher up at DC had to step up and tell Frank that he was going in the wrong direction.
This is the same editor who let Frank get away with Dark Knight Strikes Again and Holy Terror when DC laid him off. As far as I'm concerned, he was just a yes-man who didn't actually do his job.
From the sounds of it it looks like no one even cared enough about this series to properly edit and meet the deadline lol, the assistant editor's take proves it. The editors didin't care, DC didin't care, Miller certainly didin't care. I feel bad for Jim Lee, he seems to be the only one who put some sort of effort into it, just look at how complex his art for this was.
The only thing I kinda like from this Comic is a specific Line that Batman says to Dick Grayson. "YOU'VE BEEN DRAFTED INTO A WAR". The issue is that this Line/the indoctrination of Dick Grayson doesn't work with this character and it wouldve worked better if it was Jason Todd that Batman stole from the police. It couldve added to a dark revelation that not every Member of the Bat Family Joined as a choice and showcased how nearly every Member of the Bat Family had a pretty decent life before they became Superheros except for Jason,who's life was horrible long before Batman entered his Life.
The reasons why "not" to finish this comic feel hollow deflecting the blame to not adress the main issue. The book started off well but it was too toxic and really bitter to the point where it seem to be better to not touch it. The excuses just seem to fall flat and ring really hollow.
I loved this book also Chris. I remember meeting Jim Lee at Spawn 200th issue signing at Golden apple comics all the image creators were there and I asked JIm were there any plans to finish the series and I was told by Jim Lee himself that it was gonna be finished a few weeks later I read that the book was canceled at issue number 10, I was very disappointed. Thank you for caring and bringing this subject to surface with clarity and understanding.
*If you were going into it thinking it was going to be a straightforward Miller comic, of course it's going to fall short. But Miller was not a fan of what DC did with Batman following, TDKR. Making dark and gritty Batman's default state and making him a jerk who would hatch murder plots against the JLA and creating the OMACS which resulted in the death of Blue Beetle (Bats didn't even have the courtesy to feel bad because of that.).* *Thus this series came across to me as Miller parodying what DC turned Batman into because of TDKR.*
Brandon’s explanation - “we can’t tell the famous creators what to do” - is exactly what caused the decline of comic storytelling in the 90s, and it’s fascinating that once again Jim Lee is part of it. Worshipping at the feet of the writers and artists to the point that you’re unwilling to edit them is creative cowardice. That’s how we got the Star Wars prequels.
Biggest waste of Jim Lee's time ever, and I read Stan Lee Imagines Wonder Woman. I get that it may/may not be a complete joke, but that doesn't automatically make it good either. I did like the stupid super fold out page of the Batcave and Batman drinking piss, er, I mean lemonade. I honestly hope they never touch it again. Jim Lee has better things to do, I think Frank might be in a better place mentally/physically... just let this one go. My over the top, weird Batman will just be Odyssey, and that's fine by me.
Ahh, Miller. Does not actually take much guesswork to extrapolate the "truth": FM got distracted by the fame monster, divorced and nearly drowned down near the bottom of a bottle. If anybody ever finds his talent, please return to owner
I was watching your video on Fraction and Aja's Hawkeye and you had said somethignthat really interested me. You had said that the run was Hawkeye's definitive run then went on to state a few others. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on what you think are character's definitive run, maybe it could be a series
The artwork from Jim Lee was fantastic but the price per issue was high and there were fewer pages as compared to regular comics. The pacing of the story was slow. The writing however……WTF??????
I think my big issue with All-Star Batman and Robin was the whiplash. Things like “greeting the Green Lantern in a yellow-painted room, covered in yellow paint, with Robin holding a jug of lemonade”? Wonderful, that’s delightfully stupid. Having B&R beat Green Lantern so violently that they have to give him an emergency tracheotomy? Terrible, the exact point where I rolled my eyes and went “this is godawful” and put the book down.
That was really the lowest point. All that insanity and making Justice League complete joke aside that part is written mean spirited. When I see that yellow painted room, I questioned are they serious. And what happened Hal Jordan after, I mean, Hal Jordan is my least favorite Green Lantern but that is too far.
Chris I like the premise of this episode .. why certain story arcs or books never achieved completion would be an interesting continued topic to explore And if you do and get a chance to read this comment and haven’t done so already I would like to see your take and explanation on the somewhat obscure Alan Moore / Ian Gibson’s unfinished Ballad Of Halo Jones story
This was an interesting topic Chris I remember buying the fist couple titles off the rack in the day .. In my opinion it was a total comparable Knight and day in like ability of the story compared to that of the now classic story of All-Star Superman that I fell off and ultimately forgot about it ever finishing
This is a guilty pleasure for me. It's not good, but if taken as unintentional satire it's hilarious. I think Miller started out trying to write it as a serious Batman story, but wrote it too much like Sin City or 300 as opposed to Batman Year 1, and after the first few issues went off the rails he just rolled with it and kept the absurdity dialed up to 11.
I hate when people say Batman Allstar's story is epic, barely anything happens the pacing is so unbearably slow, Batman takes Robin in and then the story wastes time with random fight scenes that don't contribute to the main plot in a significant way until Batman finds catwoman half dead in the sewers or whatever, oh and I guess the justice league is also there doing something, this story is barely a coherent first act how the fuck does anyone genuinely call it an epic?
Call me old fashioned but “Titan” or not, you need a good editor and professionals who can meet a deadline. Great video, by the way. You always get my “like”!
Maybe I'm bias because I love the Batfamily but reading a series about Batman treating one of his sons like an animal and leaving him in the deep dark parts of the cave with only rats to eat just wasn't a good time for me. I didn't see anything funny about that. Its more abusive and sad to watch
When you say "the story became more and more epic", you mean "the plot kept meandering around more and more, to the point where Frank completely lost track of whatever story he may have intended to tell in the first place".
I flipped through issue one of All Star Batman and Robin at the comic book store; once I got to that "goddamn Batman" line, I put it down, walked away, and never looked back.
6:54 I've noticed throughout most of his career, Jim really can't handle the monthly grind beyond maybe a year. So I'm not surprised he's taking responsibility for the book's many delays.
This is the bottom line. And I don't even mean that as an attack on Lee, it's totally understandable when you look at the work...especially on this book.
When I was in high school, I wanted a comic that was more "mature" and hearing all the praise for Frank Miller's "mature" work I went and bought his Bat Returns and a couple of Sin City trade paperbacks. It killed comics for me. Terrible over the top fascist crap (I wasn't even an over the top liberal back then either). Alan Moore got me back into comics about 10 years later.
Aw yes. The book that made everyone realize Frank Miller had gone crazy
I thought that was holy terror
@@TheMasterQuests naw. We all knew he was long gone at that point.
DK2 had already done that.
LOL!!! He definitely got weird for sure.
Its funny but if you look back as early as Dark Knight Returns you can see hints of it in his writing.
I love the scene where Batman paints himself, Robin, and the whole room yellow to de-power Green Lantern, and then sips lemonade while lying to Hal’s face that Robin wasn’t Dick Grayson With a smug smile across his face. Hilarious.
Conversely, this scene lost me. I don’t buy this silver age silliness from the grimdark character that was screaming at a child sidekick in the prior issue. The tonal shifts are jarring. I hope they leave it unfinished and perpetually tardy.
@@DougGoodwin Not to mention, Hal has faced similar situations against Sinestro and come out on top.
Looked more like dumb humor to me. How the hell does yellow paint counter a Green Lantern ring!?
@@Archon3960 Hal's ring (and almost all GL rings) cannot affect anything yellow. At all. The lore reason is that the Guardians put it in as a safety factor. Allan Scott, the first Earth lantern (Golden Age lantern) had a ring that could not affect wood!
Kyle Rayner's ring does not have any such limitation.
@@Archon3960 It’s an old silver age weakness. Oddly, people think this is the first time Batman has done this but I swear it’s an homage to an older panel.
Jim Lee is apparently a really fantastic and stand up guy, this guy mentioned he dropped his sketchbook to see if Lee could review. Lee personally returned it, complimented the guy on his skill and then drew a 2 page spread in the book
Eh, considering how the story came out I think Frank Miller lost interest BEFORE he was hired to write this. As an artist and designer myself, I totally get it. I've taken on side projects for a paycheck and regret making that commitment the entire time I'm working on it. All I could think about was finishing this lame-duck project so that I can jump back on the one I'm more passionate about. At this time, Miller outgrew Batman and already told his story. To have a Miller story illustrated by Lee seems to be an awful mix, to begin with.
Miller wasn't even the first writer assigned to this project. Originally DC wanted to have Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee re-team after the success of "Hush". But Loeb was not available so Miller was asked to come on board. I agree with you and that Miller and Lee were a bad combo, especially since I've long stated that ASBAR as written by Miller is a dark comedy drawn as a completely straight action movie by Lee.
@@albion65 I honestly don't buy the "dark comedy" excuse. It's like watching an unintentional bad film (e.g. The Room, Troll 2) where due to cult status it's somehow shifted into comedy status despite it not being the original intent.
@@albion65 All star batman and Robin was *not* intended as a dark comedy. That's the same BS excuse every writer/artist uses when they make something shitty that blows up.
If you want to read and enjoy it as that then sure, but this was fully meant to be a brand new mainstream batman comic for fans. Don't make excuses for it.
Also the video clearly states frank Miller took on the project as an act of passion. Money wasn't an obstacle for him at this point in his fame, your experience as smaller struggling designer really isn't comparable to what Frank was thinking about/doing.
@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero That's someone's opinion whether Miller was passionate of a project or not. Just like it's your opinion that my side projects are nickel and dimes. Money isn't always the driving factor for a project. However, I can tell you that there are times when a creative person can be swayed into a project only for momentum to be completely lost after the commitment has been agreed upon. A major factor can be other great projects in queue that cannot be attended to until this lame-duck obligation is met first. It can also be real life situations that must be dealt with but unfortunately, the train is already in motion for said project. Either way, it's easier to come to the conclusion, considering all of Miller's past work, that he may have blown through this story just to get it over and done with. The "dark comedy" angle is silly.
I remember buying this comic when it first came out thinking it was going to be like the best thing ever. You had Jim Lee who's an astounding artist and he just got off of Hush with Geoff Loeb. On top of that, Frank Miller's a legend. I don't think I need to say anymore. That being said, this book was a massive disappointment. However, I do say the artwork is fantastic. And it's spawned one of the earliest internet memes 'I'M THE GODDAMNED BATMAN'. That is the only good that I could say came out of this book.
Literally my reaction to reading it was a progressively astonishing of "What the fuck?" It starts weird and gets weirder. But yes, the art was great. Love the scene in the yellow room for the art, but (most) certainly not for the story!
Even then that comes with the cost of Batman using the word “retarded.”
I really want to know what Frank Miller was smoking and who hurt him to make this...
Miller has a tendency to get extremely edgy for no real reason. Depth of violence and darkness used as filler.
@@lexslate2476 Yeah I don't really like Miller at all. Like I like Year One but that's about it. I think the guy was always crazy and tbh the cracks were showing as early as TDKR.
the problem with the comedic weird moments is that everything surrounding it is overly mean spirited and causes a mild tonal whiplash. if Allstar Batman was a tongue-in-cheek series or if they toned down Jerkass Batman it would have been received a lot warmer. at least we got THE GODDAMNED BATMAN out of this comic series.
“Tonal whiplash” is a perfect description
in that case it'd be the dark knight strikes again...frank miller is his own worst enemy.
If you have a version of Batman that you couldn't see comforting a child, you do not have Batman. You have Frank Castle who wandered in to the wrong book and put on another guy's suit.
@@lexslate2476 fucking bingo. This is nail on head. Bruce Wayne isn't the punisher, despite what Miller seems to think. He's not a psychopath, a sadist, a child abuser, etc. To depict him as such, even in Frank Miller's fake "it's just satire bro" nonsense is a deep insult not only to the character, but also the reader. It's saying "this character that got famous for being just a guy who experienced trauma and is trying to make the world a better place but has problems is boring, what if he was a complete nutjob who made the world actively worse and displayed no likable qualities?"
But what can you expect from Frank "I think using the R-word as a derogative word is Very Cool and Funny" Miller? Every story he's ever written has been reductive of the character he's writing. This is why the movies for TDRK are actually better. They strip out almost all of the diseased, mean spirited hate that Miller spews throughout the book and focuses on it being a story about batman, not a vehicle for Frank to yell.
Shoutout especially for how utterly sickening Miller's treatment of Robin has been over the years, consistently portraying Bruce Wayne as a child abuser for... no reason other than he thinks that's definitely Cool. The idea of a bruce wayne who abuses children is even worse than Zack Snyder's ridiculously edgy "durr batman kills people" take. He was never meant to be an edgelord, the compassion is core to the character as a hero- What he is fundamentally cast as in mainline comics.
@@lexslate2476 I haven't read AS Batman and Robin, I've only seen online videos critiquing it but I've read a couple of Punisher comics (and seen him in a few event/teaming up comics) and he still seems way more sane and likeable. Hell even Moon Knight who's supposed to be literally insane seems more reasonable from what I've read lol.
My theory on why it was never finished? People largely hated this story. This was so over the top it made people actively be repulsed by its content.
I don't think its as over the top as people make it out to be. I mean it is over the top, but in a fun way.
@@isaacvargas3156 I feel much the same, and did so from issue #1.
I'll also say...for good or ill...Frank started trolling his critics almost immediately in the book. "I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN" is a "thing" largely because people bitched about it, and Frank...laughing, I'm sure...said, "fine it's in every issue now."
@@mpjedi212 no I'm pretty sure that was him trying to cash in on a dead meme cause he's a fucking dinosaur
@@pickedceasar1216 It wasn't dead when he was doing it, since he made it up.
But that's OK, be agist and snotty.
Yeah, Frank may have been joking with the whole series. The way I see it, there are really two possibilities with this. The first is that Strikes again and ASBAR are parodies Miller made as a response to criticism he received with his portrayal of Batman in the dark knight returns, it makes sense seeing as Frank has always been a vocal writer (hence his political views appearing in his writing). The second possibility is that this really is the story Frank was trying to tell. Miller's Batman has always been crazy, it is one of the central archetypes of the universe. Sure, he has never been as particularly insane as he was in ASBAR nor has the dialogue been as bad, but being stubborn and insane, laughing while beating up criminals and treating crime like a war are things Miller's Batman has always done, even in year one.
For all of its flaws, i still think this comic has Jim Lees best art of his career, heightened by Alex Sinclairs colours and Scott Williams inks as always
I agree. His work on Hush was good but Lee really reached his peak on this one. sadly the quality of his art has kinda sunk over the years.
The art is definitely magnificent. It's the story, dialogue, and characterizations that are complete garbage.
Frankly, the excuse that these two were so "busy" and so popular that they couldn't finish the project, just tells me they should never done it in the first place.
that's the same thing with Kevin Smith and Jon Favreau writing comic book arc's
Imagine DC one day saying: hey, the all-star movie Superman did well, why don't we make a movie adapting our only other comic from the All-Star line?
Directed by Rob Zombie
The only good things to come out of this series was the art and the phrase "I'm the God damned Batman".
The common usage of "Crazy Steve", coined by Linkara. Was also thanks to this series.
Don’t forget Bonkers Betty😉.
@@patrickblanchette4337 And Dick Grayson Aged Twelve.
I work at a comic book store and we recently found a couple issues in our boxes of back issues to be processed and the store owner defended the book saying he’s a fan of it, so.... you’re not alone! There’s at least two fans of the book out there.
Chris is an artist and I'm sure the reason he likes ASBAR is because the art in it is great. Its the writing that's a problem.
Three
Wait, Chris says he likes it? Why? Where does he say it?
why is it do bad to like this book? its a good story that was more accurate to how batman would act if he was real. i dont know about you guys, but the tough and brooding batman who never smiles thing was getting boring. crazy batman is more likely to happen when you have a billionare with mental issues
Edit - apparently I misunderstood his previous comments.
Chris, it would be fascinating to see your take on Frank Miller's career trajectory over the years, with all the controversy included! Holy terror is such an insane book, it would be great to hear your thoughts in detail
"What are you going to do, tell the writer to rein it in??" Lol, yes. That's literally the job.
"It was rock and roll from the beginning!" = We didn't have a plan and no one bothered scoping the project.
These kinds of management problems certainly aren't unique to comics, but comics seems to be the only industry where no one considers them a problem. 😂😂
Miller's supposedly "intentional" humor is, I think, his strained and dreadfully contrived attempts at further adulterating and gutting Batman's mythos. That's what he was doing in Dark Knight Returns, but he did so with a unique and brilliant (at the time) concept for Batman that hadn't been seen before and he executed it with genuine purpose and vision. But by the time of All-Star Batman Miller had long been a shadow of himself (and not just physically). As a result instead of fully-realized ideas you get these desperately lazy and uninspired attempts to again recreate Batman, but only with outrageous (and outrageously stupid) dialogue and scenes that demean Miller's legacy more than Batman's. I think Miller has a love/hate relationship with the character that made him famous, and quite unlike someone like Alan Moore, Miller is too brutish and simplistic of a writer to be truly profound. So now he's just head-butting walls, but with considerably less force than when he was young and optimistic.
Alan Moore is a hack
@@JohnSmith-yd5wq Nah
@@JohnSmith-yd5wq Why?
@@j_shelby_damnwird well the fact that most famous stories are with characters he didn't create
@@j_shelby_damnwird and the killing joke is shit
With all respect to your opinion, I think this was the hottest of hot garbage. People call it Jim Lee's best work but it's so distorted and over stylized in my opinion it looks pretty bad on many pages. The story is nonsensical and there's no way anything happens in the order you would expect it to based on what you have to read. Black canary, Batman, Vicki Vale, Robin, all of them are depicted horribly out of character for anything that they're intended. The Joker shows up with a chick who is his muscle, she's a Nazi with swastikas covering her boobs.
The only reason why I feel this Comics old well was because of the talent involved making it. As you pointed out both of them were very hot off the presses at the time and fans would have bought it regardless. There were variant covers, there were reprints with ashcan additions, if you were a collector and they drive a lot of the comic Market, there was a lot here for you to try and collect on. Quite frankly I don't think anyone actually bought it to read it after the first couple of issues, and anyone who was reading it wanted to see where the train wreck would go next.
I was a little late to the party, so I waited for a trade collection, and this was one of the few times I bought a comic that I felt dirty after reading it. If you're curious, the other two that I felt dirty reading where Old Man Logan and cross
As for why it stopped? My opinion is that the comic started to attract a lot of unwanted negative attention once people started really reading it, and as soon as it became evident that with the superstars involved this thing was going to take forever to come out DC quietly decided to just let sleeping dogs lie.
Which is a shame because this wound up killing the All-Star franchise.
Chris you are a far more forgiving man than me. I will never forget how the combination of this book, The Spirit, and Holy Terror all in a few years window made me despise Frank Miller as a mean-spirited xenophobic misogynistic dirtbag.
By the time time The Master Race rolled around he seems to have lightened up a bit though. It should be mentioned to his credit however that Miller himself has said Azzarello was a big driving creative force behind DKIII.
The kind of idiocy only a leftist would write!
Damn dude I’m just so glad you’re back in such a big way, will continue watching every video you make🤟🏻🤟🏻 keep up the awesome work
Ah, yes. Painting everything yellow to combat against Green Lantern is a classic lol
'It was intentional.' Intentional. Well, yes, obviously. When a creator sets out to deliberately have a fifty-five year old folk hero behave in the most boorish, ugly, hate-filled way he can, the intention is clear. In an interview discussing 'The Dark Knight Returns,' Miller states "I just wanted him to be the guy nobody likes." And two decades later, mission accomplished. But I'm really not sure how that is a defense.
"I wanted to write a story that nobody enjoyed."
... congratulations?
@@SchulzEricT The man had a goal and he achieved it.
@@stranger59 Well...You're not wrong...
I could not and still can not see this Batman as "my" Batman, if that makes sense. And "my" Batman is pretty expansive. This version/vision just doesn't appeal to me.
This comic doesn't have Bruce Wayne/Batman, it's a insane guy named Crazy Steve pretending to be Batman!
Man, I used to love Frank Miller's stuff when I was younger. As I have gotten older his over the top sensibilities have worked less and less for me. Its weird. It seems like after DKR he read Brat Pack and was inspired to make all of his heroes more like the lead "heroes" on that book.
I never really "got" Miller's writing sensibilities (or art style, but that's a different topic), Year One being the exception. But latter-day Miller just seems to have completely doubled down on all his flaws.
Great ep, I actually had a lot of questions regarding this comic and you answered it all.
I think the great fame of both writer and artist were the reason people had huge amount of expectations, and that's a double edge sword. The tone and the story were all over the place, Jim may have been the cause of the delays but his artwork was better than ever, not the same could be Frank Miller's writing. It's not that an over the top action packed "parody" of Batman can't be done, but the problems came that it seemed like there wasn't a clear style or storyline (other than Robin's origin story); sure it could be funny the way Batman talks like a self-aware Deadpool "I say what I want! I am a comic character!" Kind of humor, but in the next page there would be a dramatic 180 shift in tone and something really dramatic it would happen that would need the reader to engage it in a more serious way. And that is usually a dangerously fine line.
I can understand the artist and even editorial liken it to something like a musical jam session with two legendary artist, wild and unpredictable by nature, but it was closer to have 2 famous musicians one giving it all and the other being totally drunk doing what in his mind he thought was cool but the audience just take it as him performing awful and sounding like a douche he gets mad when people boo him.
I'm just using the analogy the assistant editor chose I'm not trying to judge any all of these artists personal life or artistic choices but trying to be objective about the art itself and what ultimately came to be.
I remember being bad buzz around one of the last issues published, where Batgirl was cursing like a sailor and editorial had to black those out after the fact, yet people could still read the words printed beneath the black boxes... I'm sure the general backlash against the abysmal quality of the comic had something to do with both Miller and Lee not wanting to stick with it.
They had to recall all the issues and re-release the comic the next week with black censor bars that actually worked.
Jim Gordon: My daughter is an " angel "!😇
His daughter: 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
The artwork in this book is amazing. But that’s all that’s good about it really
"...but I also definitely wouldn't put it with something like Holy Terror."
I would.
ASBAR has better art than Holy Terror and it isn't a racist call to arms like Holy Terror (although with all of the misogyny, etc in ASBAR, its no surprise the two have the same author), but its just as nonsensical and poorly written as Holy Terror.
So while ASBAR is better than Holy Terror, its still terrible.
The good thing I can say about ASBAR is that Frank Miller didn't insult a billion people in that one yet. We all know that it took great restraint.
Frank Miller had obviously gone insane while writing All Star Batman. Poor Jim Lee had to bring these delusions to life. The simple fact is that the beauty ofJim Lee's illustrations made the madness bearable.
Rarely has there been such a dichotomy of mastery (the artwork) and tasteless dreck (the writing) fused in the same piece of media.
Reading this book when I was younger, I was always confused at the last couple of issues and the story it was trying to tell. A weird tough love kind of dynamic where Bruce was attempting to create another version of himself but eventually softened up upon realizing the magnitude of those weird decisions and the determination of Dick’s character. It’s the beginning of a process where Batman’s aggressive, violent tendencies are smoothed over into something more heroic. I think if the material with Black Canary and maybe the Justice League were cut out, maybe instead developing Catwoman and the Joker, they could have made it into a pretty decent Batman and Robin: Year One type storyline that could have been as little as six issues.
The fact that Batman laughs maniacally while hurting people and the Joker never smiles or cracks a joke during any of his appearance suggests Miller was trying to do some kind of switch-a-roo thing with the two characters. Its a decent idea but its poor execution and lack of an ending to tie everything together just make the whole thing disgusting. I think Zack Snyder read this and decided this is the kind of character Batman is supposed to be, hence why we haven't had a decent Batman movie since 2008
@@architeuthis3476 "The fact that Batman laughs maniacally while hurting people and the Joker never smiles or cracks a joke during any of his appearance suggests Miller was trying to do some kind of switch-a-roo thing with the two characters."
This has been Frank Miller's Batman and Joker since THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. It's totally consistent (which is what he said he was doing), and frankly, I find that Joker to be the most disquieting version of the character anyone's ever done.
@@mpjedi212 Batman is a laughing psychopath in DKR? We must not have read the same story.
I think the main issue with this is just how violent and aggressive he is with Robin like he locked him in a cave to starve and eat bats... That literally sounds like some s*** the league of assassins would do
@@architeuthis3476 Literally the only time I ever heard him tell a joke and it wasn't even really a joke it was just badass was the mud pit
13:27 - You CAN tell the writer to rein it in, that's literally what they pay you for. Dude's an editor, right? So edit. Let the writer write, let the editor edit.
I believe the editor means artistic editing
The REAL question is why did DC keep giving Miller work after that load of bullshit.
money
Bc his work - even now - is still lightyears ahead of anything Tom King can even dream of. And compared to everything (!) the likes of Mags Versaggio, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Vita Ayala & Co have put out...well, it`s like watching some god at work! I really liked Holy Terror and ASBAR.
@@M.E.plusminus said "I really liked Holy Terror and ASBAR."
Why would anyone like Holy Terror? Its hate speech in comic book form and the art isn't even good
@@architeuthis3476 His style has changed & even declined dramatically over the years, he got older and lost some of his talent (just like Byrne, Simonson, Chaykin..). But his art is still good enough and very interesting to look at (and it looks SO much better than that of most artists working currently for Marvel and DC - at least in my eyes..).
As for the "hate speech" ...Holy Terror shows what acts of violence (= 9/11) can do to the heart and soul. What did you expect - a love letter? Of course it`s dumb to answer hate with hate, but it`s also very human & I understand the motivation behind his book; and also his dislike for a certain group of people.
- Sorry for the long answer. ;)
I cannot agree less. That said, the additional context, the commentary provided by others, even later comments by Lee and Miller are important and NEVER discussed. I think people see two talented creators who made what can easily be cast as “well, Frank Miller be crazy” and enjoy dunking on Miller using this series without much post-facto context.
That said.
It’s pretty hard to take this as over the top when its tone is so consistent. And it is particularly impossible to believe Frank Miller was distracted by directing The Spirit, a film so bad that my brother, my father and I, who had started a biweekly tradition of going to the theater together, saw it in theaters and it was so awful it broke up our ongoing plans. That movie was inexcusably horrible. It felt “directed,” not directed.
The goddamn Batman, his wtf tryst with Black Canary, the rats for Dick, it all sounds tonally consistent. Just atrociously bad writing. Not “over the top,” that would be Batman with a rocket-powered hang glider using predator missiles-if it’s meant to be over the top, it’s also a bad job, because it isn’t established. If you’re going that route, you NEED a moment, a panel, a page, a story beat that screams “did Batman tap a mugger on the shoulder and lightning struck? Oh. Ohhhh. Goddamn. Batman. God.. smote the criminal. Okay, we’re in interesting territory.”
But that doesn’t truly exist here. There is no crystallizing element that clues the audience in to “yeah, we know this is a pretty nuts thing, just come along for the ride.”
There’s Bruce insisting Dick would live in the cave and he’d need to hunt his food down. Y’know, newly orphaned, badly damaged and traumatized acrobat Dick Grayson, was gonna just eat rats now.
This and Holy Terror recontextualize Miller's earlier Batman work. They come off as much more reactionary than before.
I seem to be the only person who dislikes The Dark Knight Returns. The fascist themes are ubiquitous and ruin any enjoyment I might get from the rest of it. I actually refer to it as _Batman Shurgged_ and have written a short essay comparing DKR to Ayn Rand.
@@architeuthis3476 You're not special lol.
@@architeuthis3476 I'm glad I'm not the only one
@@architeuthis3476 It definitely has those undertones. I think people ignored it initially because it paints Reagan in a slightly negative light.
@@architeuthis3476 Yeah I didn't notice it when I was 14, but rereading it as an adult the fascism is screamingly obvious. Not just in the way Batman way portrayed but the entire world Miller created - filled with barely human gangs of marauding teenagers - is a justification for any and all fascist violence to stop it.
After the absolute homerun that All Star Superman was, which imo, is now one of the quinessential superman stories, this was supremely disappointing.
ASBAR was a grim reminder of why we shouldn't treat the big icons of 80s and 90s as infallible masters of comic book dogma...
And ironically Jim Lee was piled up with Rob Liefeld as comic's bane in the 90s to be vindicated later.
Chris, will you ever do Morrison’s Invisibles. It literally contains every Morrison trope in existence and I think it’s under read and under appreciated.
I thought that right up to last issue when we found out the truth, that it had all been a dream; that single issue killed it.
@@Eris123451 Is that seriously how it ended? If so, thanks for saving me from the temptation of spending money on it.
@@r3cycledPl4stic it's a tremendous oversimplification of what actually happened. Read it anyway, it's brilliant.
Yeah, I don't buy for a second that guy's claim that this was supposed to be intentional comedy. It's like making the same claim about The Room. Better to admit that he likes this story despite its glaring, obvious problems than to pretend these aren't problems at all.
This story is a mess and frankly I'm fine if it never gets finished. Whatever conclusion it comes up with cannot possibly undo all the awful things that this story did to all of its characters. With the possible exception of Plastic Man every character featured in this book is awful, dumb, incompetent, villainous or a combination of those. Nothing short of a complete reboot of the story could save those characters, and all that would accomplish would be to turn all the previous issues of this story into a waste of time.
Anyway, it's still a nice, informative video and this explanation certainly sounds like the more likely one (though there's always a chance that behind-the-scenes politics are involved).
I think he was more saying that HE read it as a dark comedy, not so much that Miller meant it that way.
Me: Reads title of video.
You mean asides from the fact that it was garbage that portrayed an iconic hero as a murderous psychopath who kidnaps twelve-year olds, calls them retarded, forces them to eat cave rats in order to survive, insults and belittles other heroes, and is more concerned with getting into pissing matches with everyone than actually do any good?
Also, anyone who tries to pass this story off as a deconstruction can go right out the door. When did "deconstruction" become synonymous with "everyone is an asshole?"
If they were so busy, DC could have put out a release announcing there would be a delay. All I’m hearing are excuses and giving Lee and Miller a pass because they were stretched thin.
While I agree that the book is definitely meant to be a satire (I can imagine Miller thinking, "geez, you guys like this reckless, asshole version of Batman? OK, I'll give him to you times ten!") I disagree that it's actually funny. Miller's writing and tone in ASBAR are painfully mean-spirited, he punches down at his targets, and he's incapable of writing a female character whose inner/outer strength isn't immediately cast aside at the first sign of scoring hot dick. For a book that's trying to be funny, it ends up being no fun at all.
I think the editing problems were probably a bigger factor in the book's quality than in its delays. The book features some of the worst aspects of both creators' styles. Lee's artwork has always been technically strong while having trouble with layouts, and that problem only amplified as he gained more and more clout, leaving editors with less power to rein him in and stop him from making twenty splash pages per issue. Cynics say Lee draws so many pinup pages because they sell better on the aftermarket, but I think he probably just likes drawing pinup/splash pages because they're easier (and probably more fun/satisfying to look at when they're done.) But it makes for a dull read.
This is one of the first comics I read as a kid. I picked it up off the bookshelf in Chapters and read it right there. The art was astounding but even as a young child I could tell I was reading something wrong and disturbing.
The alcohol abuse theory that you brush over is more than likely the most valid explanation. Creators are often driven by demons that both fuel creativity and ultimately destroy it.
There is absolutely no way that DC and Frank Miller himself intended for the book to be some kind of ironic "dark comedy".
Miller's writing was trash, especially when compared to his own previous work. The editor dropped the ball by not doing his job, though to be fair to him, I don't think Miller's nonsense could be edited into coherence anyway.
Wow great episode! Heya can you do a piece on that awesome 1985 six issue LONGSHOT mini series by Arthur Adams that nobody remembers? Some of the best art ever 👍 Dude that would make the best movie! That was Arthur Adams in his prime, along with X-Men annual #9 & New Mutants special edition #1. Later, Bootsy
the problem with seeing it as not being supposed to be taken seriously is the fact that... it was not presented that way to people. it was sold as this pillar of the batman mythos, even frank miller considers it to represent what is batman... So, it is not like the creators consider it as a parody of batman, Frank Miller intended for this to be a book that represents all that is batman just as much as how all start superman does for the man of steel... but instead, we got an unintencional parody of the dark knight
It was intentional, it was poking fun at the stupidity of Batman comics Hed inadvertently caused. To him it was what Batman had become since dkr and he hated it. In the comic Batman is basically constantly called insane constantly which should clue you in to how miller felt about him.
@@Jiub_SN That would mean a lot of his work after that in which he has had creative control, has been a parody, and we know it wasn't, the dark knight strikes again, Holy terror, superman year one. All these were done honestly by him and they all have the same feel as ASBAR
It sounds that, maybe like the Star Wars' Sequels, they could have done with getting a solid plan before starting the project.
Seems obvious it's a mix of Miller's health and addiction issues, combined with his awful writing being an embarrassment to Lee and DC.
I really lost a lot of respect for these guys on this project. How could such a great writer and artist team, with such strong established reputations, so totally butcher one of the greatest fictional characters ever created? Some of the writing really makes one think they'd barely heard of Batman and knew very little about him.
And then there's Holy Terror, which got started as Miller's next Batman project
If you look back at Miller's history, a lot of the bonkers stuff in this series had its roots in his earlier work. Superman being an incompetent goon and Batman an omni-competent demigod able to make him look like a fool (Dark Knight Returns / Rises), the worship of masculinity and Manly Men Making Hard Choices (Sin City, 300), or women being defined by sex or finding the protagonist irresistible (Sin City, Batman Year One). I seem to remember it just went more and more off the rails after the World Trade Centre attacks--the utterly vile "Holy Terror" wouldn't come too long after this (with not-Batman sadistically murdering and torturing terrorists in between banging not-Catwoman), and it's the apex of Miller's obsessions completely devouring his work.
It's why I can't really enjoy this book. There's not a single hint of self-awareness from Miller about what's he's doing here. This really does seem to be what he thinks Batman should be like.
hahaha miller was never good
any decent literary criticism will reveal the total hollowness behind 100% of his work. he's a flashy hack and probably an actual fascist
Don't forget we're talking about Frank Miller...
Does anyone else like Linkaras review of the series? I personally found it rather funny.
I don't generally care for Linkara, but his Frank Miller series is probably the best critique of that particular author out there. Strongly recommended!
Crazy Steve!
As crazy as it sounds, I’d kinda like to see it’s official ending one day.
I mean, it’s an awfully hilarious series, but I actually kinda dig the ideas in the story & Frank’s take on the Batman characters in his world, I dare say it could’ve been great. If frank didn’t seem to be on crack when he wrote it lol.
And in my opinion, it’s the best art jim lee has ever done in a comic.
I hated ASBAR but I do kinda wanna know how it ends
I wish Adam west got to be in an animated movie adaption
@@architeuthis3476"i actively didn't support the series because i didnt like it, but now i want then to finish it" lmao the reason it didnt get finished was because of people like you in the first place
@@azulchamoy Yes, & I'm fine with that.
The comic is complete garbage (other than the gorgeous artwork), but I, too, would be interested in seeing its conclusion - just like you can't look away in the middle of a trainwreck.
I don't know, maybe it's because I always felt like Frank Miller was overrated, but I think as a professional if you're going to start a story and have fans pay for it, you should at least have the decency to go ahead and finish the story.
overrated?? really?! tell me you just jumped on the hate bandwagon
I like comparing this to All-Star Superman and the depiction of the lead character whenever it comes up in conversation.
All-Star Superman is usually regarded as one of the best depictions of The Man of Steel, celebrating his Silver Age origins, along with his willingness to go out of his way to help the people of Metropolis with their daily lives. It shows Superman being the character many of us grew up with.
All-Star Batman & Robin depicts Batman at his absolute WORST. Over the top parody or not, it wasn't advertised as such. It also feels like Frank Miller was trying to justify the resentment his take on Batman has in the Dark Knight universe by depicting him as an Unhinged Psychopath (I know that phrase gets throw about quite often when talking about this Batman... Honestly, nothing else fits).
He does one kind act to Dick Grayson (Age 12) in the series... Allowing him to mourn at the Grave of his parents for just a moment... But this is blunted by the fact earlier in the same issue, he threw him into a wall after and punched him in the face hard enough to bloody his nose (After he stood by while Dick was beating the shit out of Green Lantern, crushing his windpipe in error).
Knowing the turn Miller took with Holy Terror, I'd imagine Miller considered that one Batman at his best.
@@shizachan8421
Maybe. Holy Terror is not something I'd willing read again.
Because it's a travesty of a book. Artwork aside, The only reason this book is even a discussion is because it has Miller's name attached to it. If this was penned by some smaller or new writer at the time, He or she would have been ripped to shreds and possibly never have work again, but because it's Miller, Creator of one of, If not the best graphic novel of all time, He gets a pass as well as defenders of this book.
Wow, you give Frank a lot more credit then I think he deserves. Frank's more recent work has made me like his past work even less.
I used to like TDK and Sin City, when I thought they were pointed satire. I've come to realize that they are actually pretty straight forward and Frank is just really down for fashy ideas. After 9-11 he just got more explicit with the ugliness of what he believes. No one can read Holy Terror and think he is alright, it's amazing he still gets work after that book.
Sooooo basically it was never finished cause the editors at DC didn't have the balls to tell Miller and Lee to sit down, shut up, and finish what they started, got it!
Honestly I just don't think DC was in the position to offer either of the two an ultimatum. Both Miller and Lee could afford to never work for DC again, but DC really couldn't afford to lose either of them.
@@kevingriffith6011 well kissing their ass didn't get the book finished either. Maybe the answer was they should have gotten a different creative team. Alan Davis and Mark Farmer spring to mind.
@@albion65 Pretty much that, yeah, either find a new team or expand the team to better divide the workload. Of course then you don't get the boost that comes from having Miller and Lee's names on it, but at least the book gets done.
@@kevingriffith6011 well Brian Azzarello seems to be the guy who can keep Miller focused enough to finish a book or execute Miller's concepts in a book without it losing it's Miller voice.
It is Crazy Steve and Robin age 12.
The only thing All-Star Batman had going for it was the Jim Lee art.
Everything else was a waste.
I'm a Batman fan, but I hated him in this title.
Jim Lee's work was so NICE, but Frank messed the story up something fierce lol.
The editor saying that he couldn't tell Frank Miller "no " on Batman's characterization was VERY revealing. This story is a mess. Not a The Dark Knight Strikes Again-level mess, but certainly a DKIII level mess. At least the art is unimpeachable.
I can't say this book was good, but I'll say it was fun to read, and on top of that it had some of the best work of Jim Lee's career imo. Would love to see a conclusion some day
Can you go into why "Image United" was never finished next? I always loved the 90s Image shared universe, wish it was still a big thing.
“You can’t tell the writer to rein it in.” Yes, you can. You can strongly suggest it, at least. That’s what good editors do. The answer seemed bloated with apologetics.
I was there when Miller talked about it at Comic con in 2015, got me so hyped for it since I’m also in the minority of people that want this continued.
Oh wow, well, as someone who watches Linkaras coverage of ASBAR several times a year at this point, I certainly learned a lot here. I didn't realize that at the time of the comics production Frank Millar was working on Sin City.
That aside, considering how progressive or a person you are, I'm surprised that you're a fan of Frank Miller. You don't see him as disturbingly insane, bigoted fascist? You also think that ASBAR is comedy? I'd really like to understand why you don't look at him this way.
This book is funny in the same way that milk smells funny if you keep it out in the sun for a week.
I’m in the minority with you. When I got back into comics it was because I read The Long Halloween and Batman was in the early stages of Morrison’s run, so I went back and read Hush and All Star Batman and Robin, All 4 were completely different and completely wonderful in their own way. I can say I probably wasn’t delusional in enjoying it as DKR was one of the last books I read going into college and it ranks at the greatest book I had read. DK2 I read when it came out and just didn’t like it at all, DK3 was disappointing but not as bad as DK2, and ASB&R was right in the middle. I loved the take on the characters and hated that it was never finished, but I own the Absolute and do appreciate what we were lucky enough to have. The Green Lantern issue will always be a favorite of mine. It was over the top. Gloriously. Thank you for this video!
I feel if Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale can finish up the storyline for Batman: The Long Halloween 25 years after it was originally published, then Miller & Lee can return for the final 2 issues of All Star Batman & Robin. And btw, in the Long Halloween 1 shot special we find out who the Holiday Killer was and it was a fullfilling conclusion. Now, if only ORC STAIN can get an ending!!!
Wait, Loeb and Sale did What? I was always confused about who the killer really was in the end. Where can I read this ending?
difference is long halloween is a classic bat story
@@nameynamename3758 A money grab can be seen for what it is and if there’s an All Star Batman 11, they will grab my money.
@@prajwaljayaraj5887 It’s called BATMAN: THE LONG HALLOWEEN SPECIAL # 1. It was only released a couple weeks ago. I’m not going to spoil the end. It’s fittingly tragic.
@@NotNearMint Ah I see. Thank You.
Great epidode! I had heard a lot of mixed reviews of this comic from friends but none of them could exactly put a finger on why it didn't quite work, despite A+ talent involved. This cleated a lot up! Thanks, Chris!
Maybe it is me that by the period ASBAR started coming out I had been skeptical of Miller's writing for 10 years already.
I felt Sin City was a great visual masterpiece but the stories paled by comparison to Born Again, Year One or Dark Knight Returns and the writing quality kept decreasing with the books coming out. 300 was again a great visual and fight choreography work but lacked the writing and plotting that amazed me in the Eighties.
I still liked his work but it wasn't as good as it used to be for me.
Then this came out together with Dark Knight Strikes Back and, worse, Holy Terror and cemented my view that his best work that I admired, and still do, was in the past.
There are some moments here and there, even the sarcasm sometimes rings a bell but at the time this came out I wasn't expecting another masterpiece.
Thank goodness they canceled this abysmal series.
If editors cannot tell a writer to rein it in, then why have an editor? I do not care what kind of "legend" you have working on a book. Editors have a job to do and they cannot shirk it because of the popularity of the writer or artist. And if the editor cannot do the job, find another who can. The book was bad from the beginning. Someone higher up at DC had to step up and tell Frank that he was going in the wrong direction.
This is the same editor who let Frank get away with Dark Knight Strikes Again and Holy Terror when DC laid him off. As far as I'm concerned, he was just a yes-man who didn't actually do his job.
Call me crazy but I actually loved ASB+R!!!
The funky end music really making my watch time for this channel much higher than it would be otherwise
From the sounds of it it looks like no one even cared enough about this series to properly edit and meet the deadline lol, the assistant editor's take proves it.
The editors didin't care, DC didin't care, Miller certainly didin't care.
I feel bad for Jim Lee, he seems to be the only one who put some sort of effort into it, just look at how complex his art for this was.
The only thing I kinda like from this Comic is a specific Line that Batman says to Dick Grayson.
"YOU'VE BEEN DRAFTED INTO A WAR".
The issue is that this Line/the indoctrination of Dick Grayson doesn't work with this character and it wouldve worked better if it was Jason Todd that Batman stole from the police.
It couldve added to a dark revelation that not every Member of the Bat Family Joined as a choice and showcased how nearly every Member of the Bat Family had a pretty decent life before they became Superheros except for Jason,who's life was horrible long before Batman entered his Life.
The reasons why "not" to finish this comic feel hollow deflecting the blame to not adress the main issue. The book started off well but it was too toxic and really bitter to the point where it seem to be better to not touch it.
The excuses just seem to fall flat and ring really hollow.
I loved this book also Chris. I remember meeting Jim Lee at Spawn 200th issue signing at Golden apple comics all the image creators were there and I asked JIm were there any plans to finish the series and I was told by Jim Lee himself that it was gonna be finished a few weeks later I read that the book was canceled at issue number 10, I was very disappointed. Thank you for caring and bringing this subject to surface with clarity and understanding.
Book might be funny but it wasn't marketed as some over the top satire, it was marketed like a prequel to Dark Knight Returns
I'll bet you Frank Miller finished his part of All Star Batman and Robin. I'm thinking DC didn't wanna print it.
*If you were going into it thinking it was going to be a straightforward Miller comic, of course it's going to fall short. But Miller was not a fan of what DC did with Batman following, TDKR. Making dark and gritty Batman's default state and making him a jerk who would hatch murder plots against the JLA and creating the OMACS which resulted in the death of Blue Beetle (Bats didn't even have the courtesy to feel bad because of that.).*
*Thus this series came across to me as Miller parodying what DC turned Batman into because of TDKR.*
Cool video always interesting
Brandon’s explanation - “we can’t tell the famous creators what to do” - is exactly what caused the decline of comic storytelling in the 90s, and it’s fascinating that once again Jim Lee is part of it. Worshipping at the feet of the writers and artists to the point that you’re unwilling to edit them is creative cowardice. That’s how we got the Star Wars prequels.
Biggest waste of Jim Lee's time ever, and I read Stan Lee Imagines Wonder Woman. I get that it may/may not be a complete joke, but that doesn't automatically make it good either. I did like the stupid super fold out page of the Batcave and Batman drinking piss, er, I mean lemonade. I honestly hope they never touch it again. Jim Lee has better things to do, I think Frank might be in a better place mentally/physically... just let this one go. My over the top, weird Batman will just be Odyssey, and that's fine by me.
Ahh, Miller. Does not actually take much guesswork to extrapolate the "truth": FM got distracted by the fame monster, divorced and nearly drowned down near the bottom of a bottle. If anybody ever finds his talent, please return to owner
I was watching your video on Fraction and Aja's Hawkeye and you had said somethignthat really interested me. You had said that the run was Hawkeye's definitive run then went on to state a few others. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on what you think are character's definitive run, maybe it could be a series
The artwork from Jim Lee was fantastic but the price per issue was high and there were fewer pages as compared to regular comics. The pacing of the story was slow. The writing however……WTF??????
"financially successful"? Who was buying this? No wonder the comics industry is collapsing. Comic readers have no taste.
I think my big issue with All-Star Batman and Robin was the whiplash. Things like “greeting the Green Lantern in a yellow-painted room, covered in yellow paint, with Robin holding a jug of lemonade”? Wonderful, that’s delightfully stupid. Having B&R beat Green Lantern so violently that they have to give him an emergency tracheotomy? Terrible, the exact point where I rolled my eyes and went “this is godawful” and put the book down.
That was really the lowest point. All that insanity and making Justice League complete joke aside that part is written mean spirited. When I see that yellow painted room, I questioned are they serious. And what happened Hal Jordan after, I mean, Hal Jordan is my least favorite Green Lantern but that is too far.
Chris I like the premise
of this episode ..
why certain story arcs
or books never achieved completion
would be an interesting
continued topic to explore
And if you do and get a chance to read this comment and haven’t done so already
I would like to see your take
and explanation
on the somewhat obscure
Alan Moore / Ian Gibson’s
unfinished
Ballad Of Halo Jones story
This was
an interesting topic Chris
I remember buying the fist couple titles off the rack
in the day ..
In my opinion it was
a total comparable
Knight and day in like ability of the story compared to that
of the now classic story of
All-Star Superman
that I fell off and ultimately forgot about it ever finishing
New poem! But you're right; All-Star Superman annihilates this one.
This is a guilty pleasure for me. It's not good, but if taken as unintentional satire it's hilarious. I think Miller started out trying to write it as a serious Batman story, but wrote it too much like Sin City or 300 as opposed to Batman Year 1, and after the first few issues went off the rails he just rolled with it and kept the absurdity dialed up to 11.
I hate when people say Batman Allstar's story is epic, barely anything happens the pacing is so unbearably slow, Batman takes Robin in and then the story wastes time with random fight scenes that don't contribute to the main plot in a significant way until Batman finds catwoman half dead in the sewers or whatever, oh and I guess the justice league is also there doing something, this story is barely a coherent first act how the fuck does anyone genuinely call it an epic?
Call me old fashioned but “Titan” or not, you need a good editor and professionals who can meet a deadline. Great video, by the way. You always get my “like”!
Maybe I'm bias because I love the Batfamily but reading a series about Batman treating one of his sons like an animal and leaving him in the deep dark parts of the cave with only rats to eat just wasn't a good time for me. I didn't see anything funny about that. Its more abusive and sad to watch
This is infamous yes but it pales in comparisons to Frank Miller's Holy Terror.
When you say "the story became more and more epic", you mean "the plot kept meandering around more and more, to the point where Frank completely lost track of whatever story he may have intended to tell in the first place".
I flipped through issue one of All Star Batman and Robin at the comic book store; once I got to that "goddamn Batman" line, I put it down, walked away, and never looked back.
6:54 I've noticed throughout most of his career, Jim really can't handle the monthly grind beyond maybe a year. So I'm not surprised he's taking responsibility for the book's many delays.
This is the bottom line. And I don't even mean that as an attack on Lee, it's totally understandable when you look at the work...especially on this book.
Frank Miller's writing on this series was just lousy, despite the magnificent art by Jim Lee.
When I was in high school, I wanted a comic that was more "mature" and hearing all the praise for Frank Miller's "mature" work I went and bought his Bat Returns and a couple of Sin City trade paperbacks. It killed comics for me. Terrible over the top fascist crap (I wasn't even an over the top liberal back then either).
Alan Moore got me back into comics about 10 years later.
Bought the first 2 issues, then my comic store stopped carrying it. It kinda sucked anyway.