Low GPU usage on Elden Ring is because the games Gfx engine won't allow for more than 60fps as it's locked to the games physics, so its not really a good game for judging GPU performance.
Well you can get around that but if you're online it'll be flagged as hacking. Same with ultrawide. I don't get why Japanese companies make these masterpieces that don't have modern features
@DarrenPC oh yeah I wouldn't use Elden Ring for a test like that at all lol. But I see why he included it since it's super popular especially since SotE
@decegrease Ultrawide not being added other than through mods is really the part that killed my interest in coming back to the dlc. I want to play with friends but I also want to play on my ultrawide monitor which is my main gaming monitor at this point and makes the game way more immersive and cinematic...
@@KogaHarine so if your friends are on PC you can play a REAL co op mode, not the summoning system but actually play the entire game together with a mod. And you can pull your old saves into it. It's pretty cool. Then you can use the high refresh rate and ultrawide mods to your hearts content lol
At this point GPUs have almost all the components needed to actually just be a pc. If they took away the useless tensor cores and put something akin to an intel e-core based quad-core solution on there you would really only have to replace some gddr chips with permanent memory and you basically have everything you need.
Some misinformation in the comments. OCuLink isn't dead. It's an open source standard. It doesn't have the overhead of USB, or the licensing cost of Thunderbolt. M.2 to OCuLink adapters are readily available. Newer Minisforum devices include them, like the UM890 Pro. I sound like a salesperson at this point, but I've never even considered a mini PC. For those that have though, that UM890 Pro is even under $600 right now with the dock.
Yeah, I really don't understand the people that say "JuSt WaIt fOr TB5, OcUlInK is sHEEt" (no shade to Russ of course); Thunderbolt in every generation is going to be way more expensive, and (from what I understand cmiiw) TB5 will only give up to x4 pcie speeds for each high bandwidth device, the same effective speed as oculink.
Even open standards can stagnate. It shows with the lack of any perceived movement in the development of Oculink, and that only a handful of Chinese consumer brands like Minisforum even bother themselves with the standard.
@ColorblindMonk I was specifically referring to your other comment. You are out of touch, likely out of industry, and regardless do not know what has driven adoption.
I mean, whats the point of a mini PC and an eGPU. The eGPU is the size of an SFF. So it doesnr save space. Its not cheaper. And you cant play on thr go like a handheld
I have always thought the enclosures were very overpriced boxes, having jumped in when they first came out with my old laptop. It is great to see something much simpler released!
The enclosures are much simpler since they have the PSU built in. Just insert the card, power it and connect the display. The reason they're overpriced is at the time it was new, it was a premium product, thunderbolt is an Intel branded protocol so that has costs and whatnot added.
Silverstone's SFX power supplies are also designed to be quieter than most standard power supplies. Another reason this supply is $120 instead of the $65.
I actually disagree on this one. They use a cheap 2 wire fan with bad fan curves. They also shudder as they hit their zero rpm fan curve. I have a video on my channel. Their internal construction is a lot cheaper than say a Corsair or an Evga psu.
@@Cary_mac My cooler master 750 watt SFX Gold cost me 79.99 NEW. OK I had to look around to get it at that price as its normally 120.00 and when I found it I was looking for the 850 watt version, so I dropped down 100 watts. But at that price what can you do. It had to power a Radeon sx7800xt so 750 watts is fine.
@@bron2078 I was about to say this is BS so I went to check pricing on SFX PSUs and my jaw dropped.... I bought SilverStone ST45SF for my dads Ryzen PC in 2017 for 65eur and now the cheapest SFX I can find is really at 110eur+ .... what the hell
one thing to note is that if you're a tinkerer like me, Oculink is just PCIe, plain and simple, which means it takes no more then plugging a M.2 to Oculink adapter into any M.2 slot on a device to give it Oculink, if you have a laptop that has an extra M.2 slot (extra as one would be used up by your SSD) then you can do this, idk of any handhelds with more then just the 1 M.2 slot on them, but if were really talking about tinkering, I seen someone make a custom M.2 to oculink adapter for the ROG Ally that has 1 of the 4 PCIe lanes leading to an M.2 slot on the adapter, allowing for using both an eGPU (at PCIe 3x speed) and the SSD (at 1x speed) Edit: just to throw more tinkering ideas out there, there is a dock made by Jsaux for the steam deck with a built in M.2 slot for a SSD, I had the idea of mounting that onto the back of my steam deck and replacing the internal SSD with an Oculink adapter, and the Jsaux dock (unlike most M.2 to USB adapters) still allows for charging passthrough with a USB C port on the dock, so you wouldn't be sacrificing really anything but a little bit of extra weight
Am I correct in assuming that, even if I used my laptop's only M.2 slot with 4 pcie lanes for oculink, the bandwidth would not be much better than thunderbolt 3 because the system uses pcie gen 3?
@@takatamiyagawa5688 about the same bandwidth, but you would still see better performance with oculink because of latency, thunderbolt has to convert the signal from PCIe to USB back to PCIe, so it has much longer latency which lowers performance, oculink just is PCIe
The issue is that the USB connection will bottleneck your bandwidth, and I think that its usb connection is still only a 10gb connection, whereas OcuLink is 32gb minimum
Good to see this review. There was a "mishap" with my daughter's computer and most of it got fried. I was able to salvage the GPU CPU and SDD (luckily I also had a spare PSU hanging around as well). I ordered the DEG1 in hopes of getting a mini PC to get for my daughter as she will be using it for college and at some point she may be moving out of town to pursue her education. What I found was the MS-A1 (which actually arrived as I was typing this) to pair up with the dock. So now that I've made a short story long, I feel confident that I made the right choice getting this dock. Thanks for the review Russ, as always I appreciate the honesty and clear communication that you convey in your reviews!
Nice video. There is one more reason an eGPU might make sense: If you want to add a secondary GPU to your setup, because fitting two into one case usually does not work out anymore. Those types of setup make sense if you want to split your resources to different displays or types of application, or if one GPU has features the other doesn't. This topic came up a lot when the Intel Arc series launched, because adding something like a little Arc 380 to your setup provided you with features like AV1 encoding and AI acceleration.
power profile is also a huge plus for some people using static devices. being able to effectively remove the gpu from the power draw equation when it isn't needed is a pretty solid benefit.
Desktops already have been doing that for decades. The fans even shut off while not in use. Like when you are watching youtube and not gaming. WTF did you think the GPU was running at full power all the time?
9:03 russ something ya may like is they make custom length psu cables. You can even get them in custom colors without added cost. Cablemod is who i would suggest for that. Making it supper clean and adding s touch of flair if ya like.
If u already have GPU and power supply and dont want to wasted them then 100$ for EGPU is not a problem but u need mini pc or laptop with USB 4 or Oculink, they are not cheap :)
There are m.2 to oculink connectors but only would work if you have a second m.2 connection or use a SATA SSD and then use the m.2 connection for the oculink for about $35 and then this would be doable.
I really want the Steam Deck 2 to have this port. Docking your handheld to play your games in higher quality is going to change a lot. Docked: competent Gaming PC replacement Handheld: versatile handheld gaming device. And that for way cheaper than having separate systems. And it really helps that you can time the upgrade paths separately. You might want te replace your handheld faster than your GPU.
yeah rn only cn handheld have oculink, ally x only have usb4, and others too, usb4 is too limited is just far too low performance for me that i end up using oculink all the time
My only computer is a GPD Winmax 2 2023. I use it over oculink with 4070 for gaming, as a desktop workstation, PCVR machine, as a laptop for work. Double the onboard power of a Steam Deck and runs full windows too. Highly recommended. 10" not much bigger than a steam deck but double the power and vast storage and RAM available.
Just waiting till there are more laptops with thunderbolt 5 port + thunderbolt 5 egpu docks. Oculink would be nice but I just don’t see most laptop brands do a oculink port. Especially since they start cutting out so many ports.
Nope. AMD has already made Occulink a requirement for their upcoming chipset. Tb5 is still going to be a USB C connector with pcie tunneling, so it's easy to say that Occulink will be widely supported and more compatible overall, since it's just an external PCIe x8 connection
It's important to note that the rated PSU wattage is the sum of all voltage rails, which means the max power draw from the 12V rail (GPUs use this one) might be lower than the total rated power. Nowadays most PSUs have high wattage for the 12V rail, but if you decide to cheap out on it, it's best to check.
This is perfect! I have that same exact minisforum mini PC with oculink and a Onexplayer X1. I have a 4080 super and bought a small oculink chip board so I can use it with the PC but have no good way to swap or move the 4080 super in a convenient way to use with the X1. Obviously I'm entrenched in the oculink ecosystem since both my devices have it and it was a major selling point for me. This is beyond perfect for and exactly what I was looking! Thanks Russ!
not really possible, USB4 and Oculink are EXTREAMLY different, Oculink is just PCIe, bog standard PCIe just in a fancy cable, its part of the PCIe spec, it is PCIe USB4 uses whats called PCIe tunneling, this means it adapts the PCIe standard into the USB standard and then back into PCIe for the computer to understand this means any USB4/thunderbolt dock needs active hardware on board to adapt the standards, which adds price, and if you wanted both USB4 and Oculink you would need even more hardware on board to detect which cable is being used and direct the PCIe connection from one to the other, adding more cost, quickly you'd have a dock probably more expensive then either an oculink or USB4 dock, you could probably just buy 2 individual docks and save money, this doesn't even mention USB4 license fees which add even more cost and complexity
@@flamingscar5263 USB4 is crap compared to oculink though. I have both and oculink is actually my go to now for local LLMs. USB4 playing games will lose ~30% fps but oculink is almsot 100% like 99+. While doing llms i do a x16 to 4x nvme pcie 4.0 x4 with oculink adapters in it. I can get full speed out of 4 4090's in ML from consumer grade equipmnet. That doesnt even mention you can actually get oculink 4.0 x8. The only advantage of USB4 is not having to reboot after plugging it in.
@@TheJmac82while true, would have wanted to at least get its ability to supply power to a device, so that I wont need two power sockets to power my setup
@@jeddpires I dont disagree one bit, I didnt mean to say its perfect, but more to say i am very unhappy with TB/USB4 performance in general. I dont know why it is so hard to make a 16 channel cable that has power as well even if that cable needs to be isolated (as in data on one side with a small gap in between the two and another one as long as its one single cable.
8:48 hey, man. You DO know what youre doing. Don't sell yourself short. you did it. have some confidence i yourself, you know what youre talking about. you can do anything
I am so happy you reviewed this for over a year I've been looking for a good egpu dock and couldn't find one that I would be happy with until you review this one this thing is perfect I've had no problems with it it helps me play everything that I have with no problems it's just great thanks again for reviewing it
It has to come sooner or later because it is such a good idea to have it universal like that. But it will rise the price to at least the double for sure.
@@cajampa chill, I'll explain. thunderbolt devices get a higher price tag because of certification requirements and so from Intel. Oculink has more bandwidth and it's faster than thunderbolt. There for you get less performance for more money.
eGPU is FAR better than a desktop. You can own 1 computer, you don't have to buy 2 (laptop + desktop), you can focus all your cash on buying and upgrading one better computer and eGPU is almost as fast as desktop. You never have to sync files between the two, you just take it with you when you travel or walk around your house/city, you can game anywhere (if you have a winmax still at decent speed even without eGPU). It's the best of all worlds. Almost everybody should have a small laptop + eGPU. It's just better with really zero downsides.
I own a desktop and a laptop. I use them for completely different things. For what the laptop and desktop is separate, I would end up paying the same if not more for a more powerful and OcuLink-capable laptop, the DEG1, a dedicated GPU, and a power supply as I would for them to be separate, not even including that I wouldn't have had access to ANY of the required parts at the opportune prices they are now and would have to shell out the $300ish for a Razer Core X instead (and probably end up paying peak crypto boom prices on a GPU), practically guaranteeing that it would be a more expensive purchase than it would have been to just do it separate. That also doesn't account for the fact that I would have to specifically look for a laptop with upgradable memory since I came upon the need to upgrade the RAM in my desktop, and-oh wait, I can't upgrade the CPU. As soon as it gets too outdated to play the games I want to play or do the work I do, I have to get an entirely new and _just as expensive_ laptop, likely one that supports a different memory standard, making the RAM upgrade useless as well. And now I have to transfer my system over, because the OS install on my old drive is filled with drivers and cached shaders compatible with a _different laptop._ For all the percieved convenience a 'do everything' system presents on the surface, it's just a delayed deluge of _inconvenience,_ a can getting kicked down a road.
Great video, trying to match the right GPU with available bandwidth is tricky... also after hearing your Pro's and Con's I actually saw there is a dock very similar to this one but it also has USB-4. It's called a "One Dock" there is a v2 out by now and The Phawxs tested out the original model.
Fortunately, it looks like more recently released mini PCs are coming with a built in oculink port. This DEG1 is a perfect accessory for these systems. Many newer mini PCs also come with multiple M.2 ports, one of which can get used by an M.2 to oculink adapter, so I believe the DEG1 is not as niche as it seems. Seriously thinking about getting one of these. Thanks Russ!
The nice thing about this eGPU isn't only the points highlighted. It has a Redriver that enhances the signal quality and extends the reach of high-speed signals, enabling reliable eGPU operation. The other one that I'm aware that has this is the OCuP4v2. In terms of laptops we have the Thinkbook that was released in the Asia market with the Oculink (TGX) port out of the box. Hopefully we start seeing more laptops with Oculink ports. Lenovo seems that managed a way to not have the hotplug drawback in a device that is not a server.
Yowza, your Win Max 2 is cooking at 28W. 95 degrees Celsius! I don't run mine at high TDP much. Lossless Scaling or AFMF would do wonders with an egpu connected to a high refresh rate monitor.
Exactly. I didn't know there was that big of a difference between 7840u and 8840u. My win 4 8840u runs at locked 45fps with same settings he was using with only 13-14watts and temp stay around 65 degrees
I see another use case where you want to regularly move a GPU around the house from media PC to office PC. Couch gaming then geeking out in your simulator using only one GPU.
This is the video that needed to be made. A comparison between these dedicated all-in-one solutions to something you can put together AND upgrade for cheaper. You can buy a used GPU or any gpu you have laying around the house! Downside it's oculink only. :( Great vid, Russ!
This is the first external GPU solution that I've seen without the huge flaws that usually make them a total non starter. I love the idea that maybe when I upgrade my GPU I might be able to use the old one with another device (mini PC, laptop , or handheld) The only remaining issue is the narrow Oculink compatibility. It would be nice to have a built-in USB hub, but that's a nitpick. The only other one I've considered was the Razer, but I quickly forgot about it as soon as I realized it was just a PC case and PSU for $500, no GPU.
Thank you for the great video. Very clear and well done, and I appreciate the options this setup opens up. Ultimately, I think a great gaming laptop makes a lot more sense, especially when you are buying a SFF PC for around $600, then adding in an extra $500 for the DEG1 with a mid range desktop GPU. You are already at $1100, and for that price, you can get a decent gaming laptop with a mobile 4070 GPU, with a nice TFT screen with fast refresh. This product satisfies the tinkering itch that I think we all have, but in reality a decent gaming laptop from Alienware or Asus makes the most sense, plus all the portability that solution offers.
Thank you for making these kind of videos, it makes it easier on us beginners to have a better idea of how can we use the tech and where to invest our money.
Works seamlessly with AMD GPU as well . Tested it with 7900 XTX and GPD WIn Max 2 8840U. No conflict whatsoever between the APU and the GPU. First step to do while the GPU is connected and powered on is it use AMD clean up utility to clean up all the drivers and then download the automatic driver installer . That’s it . Works
@@FrankelysHernandez well the problem is that now creating set ups became your hobby so if u are npt rather wealthy I suggest starting to flip em after u run out of rooms without a screen/pc. So if my wife will leave me after buying 4th handheld I'll blame Russ @retrogsmecorpse
For me, having external GPU's have been great for 3D rendering. I have two external GPU's One in the razer chroma and one that's much like this one that I bought off of aliexpress. It's not as clean as this one but connects directly to an open M.2. port. Works great.
Ive been thinking of building an open and modular second linux PC using this dock for a while now. Just gotta find a good time to start. Once built it'll be easier to upgrade every 5 or so years. With occulink there's a real market here for this to become modular PCs.
This looks amazing! I've also become fascinated with the world of mini PC's, especially in terms of their efficiency, but would not be ready to 100% lean on something like the 780M for gaming. But with this, I can keep my rx6800, and have a super efficient setup for everything else! Love it!
Thanks for the heads up on this! Just read all the info on it, looks like they are making this in response to the popularity Oculink has gained over the past couple years and how Oculink is now a deadend. The data transfer rates of Copprlink are INSANE!
@EzaneeGires PCI-SIG are the ones that created the Copprlink cabling standard. They also create most of the cabling standards available for PC tech. All it needs now is to be fully vetted, then manufactured.
Thanks for the timely review! Just ordered one of these to replace my GPD G1. I use a GPD Win Max 2 7840u as my main PC and while the G1 has been great, the fan noise and power level had me looking around for alternatives and this is a perfect fit!
If you want to shrink down that M-ATX build look up the SAMA IM01. the case is under 60 usd (might be more because of shipping) and barely larger than the external doc.
I'd never use an external GPU with a mini-PC. It just doesn't make sense in a world with mini-ITX PC cases, which can be very small and have all the advantages of regular PCs. I swear that Razor enclosure is bigger than some ITX cases I've seen. I think Russ is right that an external GPU enclosure makes the most sense as a (or as part of a) laptop docking station.
It's great with the GPD devices. You can take the pc and all the files with you in a pocketable device, then when you wanna dock for some reason you can.
I love that this thing exists and that it has occulink, but I agree that this should go one step forward and be a thunderbolt dock in the future as well, so to be the thing between your laptop/mini computer, and your Monitor/VR headset/etc… I also think, Minisforum is standing on really powerful combination if there next tablet has occulink or the next thunderbolt built in.
When choosing a powersupply that is closer to the power requirements of your psu, always check the rail wattages. The Silverstone you chose is a great PSU because the 12 volt rail (used by the gpus) is a single unified rail. Many cheaper power supplies split the 12 volt rail, which means when you comnect it yo your gpu you have to make sure you use both rails or there wont be enough power for the gpu. For example, some 450 watt psu might have 50 watts allocated to 3 volt and 5 volt rails and the remaining 400 watts allocated to 12 volt. But if the 400 watts is split across 2 rails youll only have 200 watts per rail. If your gpu needs 250 watts you need to make sure you use both power rails so younneed to plug both 12 volt cables into the gpu, you shouldnt use the splitter cables.
Oculink + oculink open case from Chyna connected to my winmax. Done. You don't need some crazy overpriced enclosure. So much better than Thunderbolt 4. Handheld gaming computer also a laptop, workstation plugged into monitors, absolutely amazing all in one device + eGPU.
I've got a 3050 ti 4 GB in my laptop and I feel like an eGPU would still be cheaper than a whole build even though that is a future goal of mine. Love that U-Turn Orbit on the left also.
Also add the price for an Oculink cable, an M.2 adapter (if you wish to integrate into a laptop that has the PCIE M.2 slot). Another say $US40. The remove the laptop base cover and connect it every time you wish for an eGPU boost. Not many devices has this connector and by the time it hits mainstream, TB5 will be released. Then you need a compatible eGPU to support it. eGPU these days are good to expand gaming handhelds and laptops to ~50% FPS increase on average and output to mutiple screens. Still a fad at this stage.
I use an eGPU for my work laptop that only has the intel iGPU so I can use it for field work, but also can use it for light gaming at home. However, since oculink is rare, I went with a thunderbolt 3 dock instead. Amazon has pretty cheap ones, I got mine for 150 and then bought a RTX 4060 and seasonic SFX supply. I do get occasional FPS micro dips, but it's really not bad. It's also not my permanent gaming machine anyway. Plus having a TB passthrough and a USB-A port makes it a useable dock for working at home. It only has 4x lanes of PCI gen 3, but I still can get 100+ FPS at 1440p on mid settings on the couple games and benchmarks I tried.
I really hope Oculink powers become a more standard inclusion on PC hardware going forward. Imagine being able to get a really inexpensive laptop for say collage, then when you get home being able to hook it up to a dock with a good GPU and getting the benefits of a desktop while keeping the benefits of a laptop. Hell, even a laptop with a rather underpowered GPU already built in for a reasonable price with the port for use with a home dock would be pretty rad. Like if Valve had thought of this with the Steam Deck, they could have made damn near the perfect gaming system. Portable with reasonable gaming performance on the go, and a home dock that add the GPU horsepower a desktop can boast, while keeping ALL your files on one system. As someone who has a reasonable desktop, and a Steam Deck honestly speaking I'd have damn near never built my PC if I had an Oculink option on the Steam Deck (and yes, I'm aware of converter cables for M.2 to add a cable. Issue there is you now have a cable you have to deal with that hinders the portable nature of the system, defeating the point) and honestly speaking, I'd buy a whole new Steam Deck if they released a revision that adds the Oculink port and probably convert my desktop to an Oculink dock for it.
At this point you might as well have a mini itx pc. I have one and it’s about the same footprint as your setup. Some of the builds I’ve seen are smaller than yours. And you get full size CPUs, full performance ram, fully modular storage, etc. and it’s all upgradable.
I looked into eGPUs since I needed a laptop and found it to be not for me. My life has changed, and I'll be travelling a lot every year. I wanted something that allowed me to work on the go and let me game when I was settled. I didn't want to have to carry around a gaming laptop just so I could game on the go so I did look at portable eGPUs and maybe other handhelds. In the end I found eGPUs to be too niche of a product and there wasn't enough selection to fit my needs. In the end I turned my PC at home into a game streaming PC and set up a VPN at home. When I'm on the go now I can just VPN back to my home and stream games from my desktop PC. To me it's an overall better experience and allows me to not have to worry about any compatibility issues or have to carry extra weight when travelling.
There are some pretty interesting vertical PC case designs now that alleviate a lot of these problems. With small ITX PCs, though, you end up paying slightly more for components, but they are of course still replaceable and modular. When I started getting (back) into PC gaming more than a decade ago, I was still able to fit an ITX PC and monitor into my tiny 630 sq. ft. Seattle house. Plus, that PC still runs and is now my home NAS/server. I like mini PCs and think they have a place, but I doubt any of them will have that kind of longevity. And of course, the ability to be repaired is non-existent. I agree with Russ, though, this would be really compelling if it also had USB-C functionality, whether instead of or even in addition to the Oculink connection.
I like an egpu combo with the GPD Win Mini better. You can close the clamshell and link an external mouse an keyboard in an ultra compact set up. I take my mini everywhere!
External GPUs have started to tick upwards much more quickly over the past 6-9 months. But I really think it'll be the company that makes one with a more basic/streamlined power supply, essentially a single PCIe power connector and rail that will get the next big endorsement as the "one to buy". If that MinisForum model had essentially enclosed a 250W AC/DC powerbrick inside the bottom of that case and do away with the need for a separate PSU, that would be the much more preferred model I think buyers would go for.
But to be fair, the triple fan 2.5-3 slot coolers on the RTX 3000 series are a bit overkill. I have the 3080 in a similar configuration, and I've never seen it get over 64 degrees even under heavy load in a full ATX case. That 3060 TI's PCB probably doesn't even touch much of the third fan at all. But you should still be able to find plenty of them available, especially if you have access to a Micro Center. I always thought the 3060 TI was the sweet spot of the 3000 series if you could get it around $350, maybe closer $300 with today's newer offerings. Cheers!
And yah, I picked up one of those Razer eGPU cases off eBay last year for about $200... and man, they are big, and they are HEAVY! That is not a solution I would use if I wanted a "more portable" PC/pack-it-to-grandma's setup. I have an ITX PC build that's essentially the same size as a SFF PC (like the small Dell and Lenovo PCs you see in offices and schools, but with a proper dedicated 2-slot GPU (GTX 1080 in my case)), and that thing is way easier to manage when you consider it weighs essentially the same and has everything included. That Razer box just sits in the closet now.
dang, i have the same set up! Same mini PC, an oculink dock. I'm using a 4070TS to power my 4K TV and I've been having a blast, running most games on 4K 60fps!
The main fear is the durability of the oculink connection. Apparently it is not made to be plugged and unplugged daily like USBC. Imagine it breaking in six months…
Oculink is just an externalized version of PCIe, this is basically a less janky way to externalize PCIe than those USB-C adapters that came out that only supported x1 mode. Therefore you can get adapter cards for laptops that will support the interface anyways, it's literally a m.2 with a port slapped on it, nothing else, lol. Not as elegant as a side-plug, but there are options.
Many mini PCs can be mounted right to the back of your monitor via a Vesa mount adapter. Hiding it completely. Then you have just the GPU dock in full view.
Last year i bought a pc since upgrading a minipc with a gpu wasn't really a realistic thing. Now i'm glad it's becoming one. So my next pc might well be a mini pc or laptop that i can connect a external gpu to. Just hope more docks like this pop up and it remains affordable.
I think the space restrictions mentioned very often, are not very valid. Presenting an mATX case as if that was the only solution is not much. I used the NZXT H1 a while and even took it with me to hotels. I would not recommend it for traveling but its fits every desk and can support most GPUs. At least every 3060ti there is. And there are many other ITX cases that save a lot desk-space. The eGPU is a very niche solution. I have one from Sonnet that I use for Macs via Thunderbolt 3. But being honest, I am a nerd and tinkerer. To use such a set-up at home just to use a mini PC is kinda pointless. The Razer with all those ports, had the advantage to use it as a dock for Laptops. That kinda made it valid in my eyes. You get the Mobilty of a Laptop, with the graphics power at home. It can game but its not a gamer setup. Also .. need to find something with OCulink
I would be a lot more interested in this if it ran over USB 4 or Thunderbolt. A little too limited by oculink, but I hope they'll look at making a version with broader compatibility!
Nice review. That is almost the same size as my mini ITX DAN A4s build with the same GPU. I’m sure thermals are better sitting there in the open though
I appreciate this product but holy hell the footprint is big, bigger than many ITX builds. I get that it's for compatibility reasons but I wish there was a more slimline model that demanded SFX or smaller PSU and let the card hang over the edge of the base. On the upside, it's big enough that if you can route the PSU cables tight enough, there should be room in front of an SFX to tape an entire mini-PC in place back there.
31:34 in a perfect world companies would just adopt Occulink rather than relying on heavily restricted formats like Thunderbolt that require an expensive license and run like trash. You can get add-on cards to (jankily) add Occulink to anything with an M.2 port, because it's an entirely passive standard adapted from PCIe and entirely open source with no licensing, it's just a port with some resistors and a simple little controller on the dock's side.
Damn you went from a %60 performance gain in Zero Dawn at the same settings with TB to a %320 performance gain in Doom Eternal with oculink at HIGHER settings! This is the kind of HUGE performance gains you should expect going from a (decent) iGPU/APU to even just a mid-range (at best) GPU like the 3060 Ti and this makes eGPU's actually worth considering as IMHO the previous TB setup was just a waste of a GPU. When you're loosing most of the GPU's performance (and the enclosure with PSU costs that much) you really should just consider a budget ITX build but now we have MUCH better performance at a much lower price. Maybe the Steam Deck 2(?) or ROG Ally 2 will have oculink??
Great Channel! learned so much. I think you might be selling eGPU a little short on the min pc front. It would be great to do a round up of laptops and desktops with the 6/780m. I've been looking at a dell 16 laptop with a 780m for $650 but trying to build a desktop with a top iGpu at anywhere close to the $350 - $500 that you can get a 6/780m mini on amazon is tough. Given the low 30 watt tdp of the dell laptop I'd expect worse performance than the mini. Basically this eGpu looks nice for those that want to get their ps3/wii u fix on a mini and then maybe in the future step up to Cyberpunk 2077. I just can't find a desktop in the $500 range that does retro gaming as well a 6/780m mini but with the ability to at a later date add a dGpu.
13:13 - I'm fine with a "weird" mini pc + eGPU deconstructed aesthetic. It reminds me of a test bench pc, where piecemealing the setup can be interesting and rewarding.
While I love this, honestly, I really love it, it's just not feasible due to the lack of Oculink pc's that would make it a must have. Agreed that a Thunderbolt port would have been a must on it, hopefully they do it. A desktop makes much more sense and will be MUCH cheaper overall. Hopefully more makes will support Oculink in the near future, it's a real win doing so. Great review as always Russ!
It's great because many mini pcs getting discounted heavily overtime.. you can switch your mini pc and get a totally new amd platform with latest ram and ssds and new cpus. That's why I think this set-up will age very well. Hopefully though manufacturers start using oculink more.. Even if you don't switch your mini pc, you can simply only upgrade your gpu, which is the primary factor to consider if your intention is gaming only. some people go nearly a decade without changing their cpus. I just wish you would make another video using an AMD gpu mainly because they're much more affordable and get better software support (adrenaline app not needing an account is a huge plus). i wonder how that experience would be cause Nvidia GPUs are simply too expensive and quickly get abandoned by nvidia by the time a new series is released even if they're powerful as is you can't help but feel left out and abandoned by nvidia. Also I'm curious if SAM gives a performance boost through oculink... Basically i think you can build a lot cheaper pcs going with amd over invidia especially with this kind of setup. Just an idea.
I've been trying to create a setup for my TV with my Legion Go. I have a spare 2080 Super that I wanted to connect it to but I have yet to find a reasonable price for an eGPU dock/enclosure. Its unfortunate that minisforum released an oculink only version.
I'm really hoping for a mobile/handheld + external GPU setup in the future. Then I can get rid of my gaming desktop to save space (I use it almost exclusively for VR nowadays). But I am going to wait and hope that the next big Steam Deck upgrade has eGPU compatibility (Thunderbolt 4 or 5?). Then I can play it on-the-go, but then also be able to dock it as my desktop (which I don't do often now) and use it for heavier games there. Or at least play games in 1440p at high settings instead of mid/low and 720/800p on the handheld screen (for the games that run lesser on the deck).
Another good use case, if you use a laptop provided to you by your office, and it does not have a dedicated GPU, you can use these and avoid having to buy a new laptop just for gaming
Seems nice (tho quite limited with only an oculink port) but seing the graphic card and power supply all in the open air like that without even a filter make me wonder if dust won't become quickly an issue... At least you won't need to dust off your desk anymore if you put this on it, as it will work as a great static vacuum cleaner with all these fans.
Low GPU usage on Elden Ring is because the games Gfx engine won't allow for more than 60fps as it's locked to the games physics, so its not really a good game for judging GPU performance.
Well you can get around that but if you're online it'll be flagged as hacking. Same with ultrawide. I don't get why Japanese companies make these masterpieces that don't have modern features
Yeah, theres a mod that can unlock fps, but even then its fairly bottlenecked and probably wouldn’t be a great example of egpu usage
@DarrenPC oh yeah I wouldn't use Elden Ring for a test like that at all lol. But I see why he included it since it's super popular especially since SotE
@decegrease Ultrawide not being added other than through mods is really the part that killed my interest in coming back to the dlc. I want to play with friends but I also want to play on my ultrawide monitor which is my main gaming monitor at this point and makes the game way more immersive and cinematic...
@@KogaHarine so if your friends are on PC you can play a REAL co op mode, not the summoning system but actually play the entire game together with a mod. And you can pull your old saves into it. It's pretty cool. Then you can use the high refresh rate and ultrawide mods to your hearts content lol
GPU size now is like a full mini tower pc
12:34
@@entropete_ there are sff cases with smaller footprint than that minisforum egpu thingy
@@zoinked1351 oh yeah definitely, a ton of my friends do TINY desktop builds
@@zoinked1351Velka 5- like ones for the win.
At this point GPUs have almost all the components needed to actually just be a pc. If they took away the useless tensor cores and put something akin to an intel e-core based quad-core solution on there you would really only have to replace some gddr chips with permanent memory and you basically have everything you need.
Some misinformation in the comments. OCuLink isn't dead. It's an open source standard. It doesn't have the overhead of USB, or the licensing cost of Thunderbolt. M.2 to OCuLink adapters are readily available. Newer Minisforum devices include them, like the UM890 Pro. I sound like a salesperson at this point, but I've never even considered a mini PC. For those that have though, that UM890 Pro is even under $600 right now with the dock.
Yeah, I really don't understand the people that say "JuSt WaIt fOr TB5, OcUlInK is sHEEt" (no shade to Russ of course); Thunderbolt in every generation is going to be way more expensive, and (from what I understand cmiiw) TB5 will only give up to x4 pcie speeds for each high bandwidth device, the same effective speed as oculink.
@@tadawakatsuthat doesn't add up, I remember seeing it was 30% more effective BW
Even open standards can stagnate. It shows with the lack of any perceived movement in the development of Oculink, and that only a handful of Chinese consumer brands like Minisforum even bother themselves with the standard.
@ColorblindMonk I was specifically referring to your other comment. You are out of touch, likely out of industry, and regardless do not know what has driven adoption.
I mean, whats the point of a mini PC and an eGPU.
The eGPU is the size of an SFF. So it doesnr save space. Its not cheaper. And you cant play on thr go like a handheld
I have always thought the enclosures were very overpriced boxes, having jumped in when they first came out with my old laptop. It is great to see something much simpler released!
The enclosures are much simpler since they have the PSU built in. Just insert the card, power it and connect the display. The reason they're overpriced is at the time it was new, it was a premium product, thunderbolt is an Intel branded protocol so that has costs and whatnot added.
Silverstone's SFX power supplies are also designed to be quieter than most standard power supplies. Another reason this supply is $120 instead of the $65.
I actually disagree on this one. They use a cheap 2 wire fan with bad fan curves. They also shudder as they hit their zero rpm fan curve. I have a video on my channel. Their internal construction is a lot cheaper than say a Corsair or an Evga psu.
Compare to cheap PSUs the silver stones will turn the fan off at low usage. It's better than a cheap PSUs, even if it isn't the best@@bron2078
Most if not all SFX PSU are $100. If you find one for less it’s likely a no-name brand.
@@Cary_mac My cooler master 750 watt SFX Gold cost me 79.99 NEW. OK I had to look around to get it at that price as its normally 120.00 and when I found it I was looking for the 850 watt version, so I dropped down 100 watts. But at that price what can you do. It had to power a Radeon sx7800xt so 750 watts is fine.
@@bron2078 I was about to say this is BS so I went to check pricing on SFX PSUs and my jaw dropped.... I bought SilverStone ST45SF for my dads Ryzen PC in 2017 for 65eur and now the cheapest SFX I can find is really at 110eur+ .... what the hell
A dock like this with a Steam Deck 2 would replace my PC completely. Hopefully we see more support for this external port.
Absolutely
one thing to note is that if you're a tinkerer like me, Oculink is just PCIe, plain and simple, which means it takes no more then plugging a M.2 to Oculink adapter into any M.2 slot on a device to give it Oculink, if you have a laptop that has an extra M.2 slot (extra as one would be used up by your SSD) then you can do this, idk of any handhelds with more then just the 1 M.2 slot on them, but if were really talking about tinkering, I seen someone make a custom M.2 to oculink adapter for the ROG Ally that has 1 of the 4 PCIe lanes leading to an M.2 slot on the adapter, allowing for using both an eGPU (at PCIe 3x speed) and the SSD (at 1x speed)
Edit: just to throw more tinkering ideas out there, there is a dock made by Jsaux for the steam deck with a built in M.2 slot for a SSD, I had the idea of mounting that onto the back of my steam deck and replacing the internal SSD with an Oculink adapter, and the Jsaux dock (unlike most M.2 to USB adapters) still allows for charging passthrough with a USB C port on the dock, so you wouldn't be sacrificing really anything but a little bit of extra weight
Am I correct in assuming that, even if I used my laptop's only M.2 slot with 4 pcie lanes for oculink, the bandwidth would not be much better than thunderbolt 3 because the system uses pcie gen 3?
@@takatamiyagawa5688 about the same bandwidth, but you would still see better performance with oculink because of latency, thunderbolt has to convert the signal from PCIe to USB back to PCIe, so it has much longer latency which lowers performance, oculink just is PCIe
The issue is that the USB connection will bottleneck your bandwidth, and I think that its usb connection is still only a 10gb connection, whereas OcuLink is 32gb minimum
Good to see this review. There was a "mishap" with my daughter's computer and most of it got fried. I was able to salvage the GPU CPU and SDD (luckily I also had a spare PSU hanging around as well). I ordered the DEG1 in hopes of getting a mini PC to get for my daughter as she will be using it for college and at some point she may be moving out of town to pursue her education. What I found was the MS-A1 (which actually arrived as I was typing this) to pair up with the dock. So now that I've made a short story long, I feel confident that I made the right choice getting this dock. Thanks for the review Russ, as always I appreciate the honesty and clear communication that you convey in your reviews!
Nice video. There is one more reason an eGPU might make sense: If you want to add a secondary GPU to your setup, because fitting two into one case usually does not work out anymore.
Those types of setup make sense if you want to split your resources to different displays or types of application, or if one GPU has features the other doesn't. This topic came up a lot when the Intel Arc series launched, because adding something like a little Arc 380 to your setup provided you with features like AV1 encoding and AI acceleration.
You could also mount the mini PC to the back of the monitor and the only thing that sits on your desk will be this dock.
Pretty sleek.
power profile is also a huge plus for some people using static devices. being able to effectively remove the gpu from the power draw equation when it isn't needed is a pretty solid benefit.
Desktops already have been doing that for decades. The fans even shut off while not in use. Like when you are watching youtube and not gaming. WTF did you think the GPU was running at full power all the time?
@@zedorda1337 Get back to me when you game off grid on a solar setup. A MiniPC sips power relative to any gaming desktop.
9:03 russ something ya may like is they make custom length psu cables. You can even get them in custom colors without added cost. Cablemod is who i would suggest for that. Making it supper clean and adding s touch of flair if ya like.
If u already have GPU and power supply and dont want to wasted them then 100$ for EGPU is not a problem but u need mini pc or laptop with USB 4 or Oculink, they are not cheap :)
There are m.2 to oculink connectors but only would work if you have a second m.2 connection or use a SATA SSD and then use the m.2 connection for the oculink for about $35 and then this would be doable.
It has fans, so it’s definitely sucking.
Nah, this blows
I really want the Steam Deck 2 to have this port. Docking your handheld to play your games in higher quality is going to change a lot.
Docked: competent Gaming PC replacement
Handheld: versatile handheld gaming device.
And that for way cheaper than having separate systems. And it really helps that you can time the upgrade paths separately. You might want te replace your handheld faster than your GPU.
yeah rn only cn handheld have oculink, ally x only have usb4, and others too, usb4 is too limited is just far too low performance for me that i end up using oculink all the time
No, most people aren't going to do this.😂
My only computer is a GPD Winmax 2 2023. I use it over oculink with 4070 for gaming, as a desktop workstation, PCVR machine, as a laptop for work. Double the onboard power of a Steam Deck and runs full windows too. Highly recommended. 10" not much bigger than a steam deck but double the power and vast storage and RAM available.
Just waiting till there are more laptops with thunderbolt 5 port + thunderbolt 5 egpu docks. Oculink would be nice but I just don’t see most laptop brands do a oculink port. Especially since they start cutting out so many ports.
Yep , that’s why Im stuck with ASUS proprietary XGmobile, until Thunderbolt 5 comes out and gets reviewed well. TB4 is so limited
Agreed, can’t wait for TB5.
I bet those TB5 eGPU docks are going to be more money than video cards though!
@@HypocritesExposdYep,
Nope. AMD has already made Occulink a requirement for their upcoming chipset.
Tb5 is still going to be a USB C connector with pcie tunneling, so it's easy to say that Occulink will be widely supported and more compatible overall, since it's just an external PCIe x8 connection
Thanks for the eGPU review. It's the only decent video on UA-cam!
It's important to note that the rated PSU wattage is the sum of all voltage rails, which means the max power draw from the 12V rail (GPUs use this one) might be lower than the total rated power. Nowadays most PSUs have high wattage for the 12V rail, but if you decide to cheap out on it, it's best to check.
This is perfect! I have that same exact minisforum mini PC with oculink and a Onexplayer X1. I have a 4080 super and bought a small oculink chip board so I can use it with the PC but have no good way to swap or move the 4080 super in a convenient way to use with the X1. Obviously I'm entrenched in the oculink ecosystem since both my devices have it and it was a major selling point for me. This is beyond perfect for and exactly what I was looking! Thanks Russ!
I wish that MinisForum unit had USB4 in addition to Oculink.
Based on what Russ said, it's just a generic pcie to oculink riser in a new shell. So it won't have any active adapter and licensing for usb4.
not really possible, USB4 and Oculink are EXTREAMLY different, Oculink is just PCIe, bog standard PCIe just in a fancy cable, its part of the PCIe spec, it is PCIe
USB4 uses whats called PCIe tunneling, this means it adapts the PCIe standard into the USB standard and then back into PCIe for the computer to understand
this means any USB4/thunderbolt dock needs active hardware on board to adapt the standards, which adds price, and if you wanted both USB4 and Oculink you would need even more hardware on board to detect which cable is being used and direct the PCIe connection from one to the other, adding more cost, quickly you'd have a dock probably more expensive then either an oculink or USB4 dock, you could probably just buy 2 individual docks and save money, this doesn't even mention USB4 license fees which add even more cost and complexity
@@flamingscar5263 USB4 is crap compared to oculink though. I have both and oculink is actually my go to now for local LLMs. USB4 playing games will lose ~30% fps but oculink is almsot 100% like 99+. While doing llms i do a x16 to 4x nvme pcie 4.0 x4 with oculink adapters in it. I can get full speed out of 4 4090's in ML from consumer grade equipmnet. That doesnt even mention you can actually get oculink 4.0 x8. The only advantage of USB4 is not having to reboot after plugging it in.
@@TheJmac82while true, would have wanted to at least get its ability to supply power to a device, so that I wont need two power sockets to power my setup
@@jeddpires I dont disagree one bit, I didnt mean to say its perfect, but more to say i am very unhappy with TB/USB4 performance in general. I dont know why it is so hard to make a 16 channel cable that has power as well even if that cable needs to be isolated (as in data on one side with a small gap in between the two and another one as long as its one single cable.
8:48 hey, man. You DO know what youre doing. Don't sell yourself short. you did it. have some confidence i yourself, you know what youre talking about. you can do anything
I am so happy you reviewed this for over a year I've been looking for a good egpu dock and couldn't find one that I would be happy with until you review this one this thing is perfect I've had no problems with it it helps me play everything that I have with no problems it's just great thanks again for reviewing it
Wholeheartedly agree, really hope they take your feedback and create one with USB4/thunderbolt as well. Would buy immediately
Same, even though you get less bandwidth with usb4, it would open this up to more options.
It has to come sooner or later because it is such a good idea to have it universal like that. But it will rise the price to at least the double for sure.
You would get less and pay more it
@@denmaakujin9161 No. You would pay more and get more. How exactly do you get less with more connection options? You are making zero sense dude.
@@cajampa chill, I'll explain.
thunderbolt devices get a higher price tag because of certification requirements and so from Intel.
Oculink has more bandwidth and it's faster than thunderbolt. There for you get less performance for more money.
eGPU is FAR better than a desktop. You can own 1 computer, you don't have to buy 2 (laptop + desktop), you can focus all your cash on buying and upgrading one better computer and eGPU is almost as fast as desktop. You never have to sync files between the two, you just take it with you when you travel or walk around your house/city, you can game anywhere (if you have a winmax still at decent speed even without eGPU).
It's the best of all worlds. Almost everybody should have a small laptop + eGPU. It's just better with really zero downsides.
I own a desktop and a laptop. I use them for completely different things. For what the laptop and desktop is separate, I would end up paying the same if not more for a more powerful and OcuLink-capable laptop, the DEG1, a dedicated GPU, and a power supply as I would for them to be separate, not even including that I wouldn't have had access to ANY of the required parts at the opportune prices they are now and would have to shell out the $300ish for a Razer Core X instead (and probably end up paying peak crypto boom prices on a GPU), practically guaranteeing that it would be a more expensive purchase than it would have been to just do it separate.
That also doesn't account for the fact that I would have to specifically look for a laptop with upgradable memory since I came upon the need to upgrade the RAM in my desktop, and-oh wait, I can't upgrade the CPU. As soon as it gets too outdated to play the games I want to play or do the work I do, I have to get an entirely new and _just as expensive_ laptop, likely one that supports a different memory standard, making the RAM upgrade useless as well. And now I have to transfer my system over, because the OS install on my old drive is filled with drivers and cached shaders compatible with a _different laptop._
For all the percieved convenience a 'do everything' system presents on the surface, it's just a delayed deluge of _inconvenience,_ a can getting kicked down a road.
Great video, trying to match the right GPU with available bandwidth is tricky... also after hearing your Pro's and Con's I actually saw there is a dock very similar to this one but it also has USB-4. It's called a "One Dock" there is a v2 out by now and The Phawxs tested out the original model.
Not really, a 4090 only losses 8% at PCIe 2 16x speed and that is the same as Oculink speed.
Fortunately, it looks like more recently released mini PCs are coming with a built in oculink port. This DEG1 is a perfect accessory for these systems. Many newer mini PCs also come with multiple M.2 ports, one of which can get used by an M.2 to oculink adapter, so I believe the DEG1 is not as niche as it seems. Seriously thinking about getting one of these. Thanks Russ!
Minisforum: Here, review this mini PC
Russ: Not yet, your dock is better
😅 Respect.
The nice thing about this eGPU isn't only the points highlighted. It has a Redriver that enhances the signal quality and extends the reach of high-speed signals, enabling reliable eGPU operation. The other one that I'm aware that has this is the OCuP4v2. In terms of laptops we have the Thinkbook that was released in the Asia market with the Oculink (TGX) port out of the box. Hopefully we start seeing more laptops with Oculink ports. Lenovo seems that managed a way to not have the hotplug drawback in a device that is not a server.
Yowza, your Win Max 2 is cooking at 28W. 95 degrees Celsius! I don't run mine at high TDP much.
Lossless Scaling or AFMF would do wonders with an egpu connected to a high refresh rate monitor.
Exactly. I didn't know there was that big of a difference between 7840u and 8840u. My win 4 8840u runs at locked 45fps with same settings he was using with only 13-14watts and temp stay around 65 degrees
NICE!! Was hoping for a review of this since they posted it on their website!
I see another use case where you want to regularly move a GPU around the house from media PC to office PC. Couch gaming then geeking out in your simulator using only one GPU.
This is the video that needed to be made.
A comparison between these dedicated all-in-one solutions to something you can put together AND upgrade for cheaper. You can buy a used GPU or any gpu you have laying around the house! Downside it's oculink only. :(
Great vid, Russ!
This is the first external GPU solution that I've seen without the huge flaws that usually make them a total non starter. I love the idea that maybe when I upgrade my GPU I might be able to use the old one with another device (mini PC, laptop , or handheld) The only remaining issue is the narrow Oculink compatibility. It would be nice to have a built-in USB hub, but that's a nitpick.
The only other one I've considered was the Razer, but I quickly forgot about it as soon as I realized it was just a PC case and PSU for $500, no GPU.
Thank you for the great video. Very clear and well done, and I appreciate the options this setup opens up. Ultimately, I think a great gaming laptop makes a lot more sense, especially when you are buying a SFF PC for around $600, then adding in an extra $500 for the DEG1 with a mid range desktop GPU. You are already at $1100, and for that price, you can get a decent gaming laptop with a mobile 4070 GPU, with a nice TFT screen with fast refresh.
This product satisfies the tinkering itch that I think we all have, but in reality a decent gaming laptop from Alienware or Asus makes the most sense, plus all the portability that solution offers.
Thank you for making these kind of videos, it makes it easier on us beginners to have a better idea of how can we use the tech and where to invest our money.
Just picked up a 7640u GPD Win 4 on Indiegogo for $580. Seems like a solid deal for a handheld, as well as a perfect fit for this eGPU dock!
Works seamlessly with AMD GPU as well . Tested it with 7900 XTX and GPD WIn Max 2 8840U. No conflict whatsoever between the APU and the GPU. First step to do while the GPU is connected and powered on is it use AMD clean up utility to clean up all the drivers and then download the automatic driver installer . That’s it . Works
The day this set up will work with some steamdeck furure edition is the day I sell my current desktop and live a happy life, hopefully next 5 years 😂
i have a desktop pc no one but 2 and i dont know why but i feel the need to buy a mini pc and egpu is this normal? xD
@@FrankelysHernandez well the problem is that now creating set ups became your hobby so if u are npt rather wealthy I suggest starting to flip em after u run out of rooms without a screen/pc. So if my wife will leave me after buying 4th handheld I'll blame Russ @retrogsmecorpse
@@greenmesjasz hahahahaha
Well, you should do more research because you can do this now and there are people using steam decks with external GPUs.
@@sflxn no no this has to be as easy and preferably through that port for maximum efficiency, what is possible now it's why too clunky for my taste
i watched this to the end..that says something...i subsribed btw good job man that was worth my time!
For me, having external GPU's have been great for 3D rendering. I have two external GPU's One in the razer chroma and one that's much like this one that I bought off of aliexpress. It's not as clean as this one but connects directly to an open M.2. port. Works great.
The Joyce Manor shirt - Russ is eternally cool as fuck!!
Ive been thinking of building an open and modular second linux PC using this dock for a while now.
Just gotta find a good time to start.
Once built it'll be easier to upgrade every 5 or so years.
With occulink there's a real market here for this to become modular PCs.
this videos deserves many likes. i am learning a lot here
Russ this is one of your best vids. A must watch for anyone curious abt oculink in general.
Amazon has Oculink to USB C adapters. So, a mini pc or laptop with USB C video out could potentially be utilized with this eGPU
This looks amazing! I've also become fascinated with the world of mini PC's, especially in terms of their efficiency, but would not be ready to 100% lean on something like the 780M for gaming.
But with this, I can keep my rx6800, and have a super efficient setup for everything else! Love it!
I've read in a couple of places that Oculink is going to be replaced with CopprLink, so keep an eye out for that in future docks!
Thanks for the heads up on this! Just read all the info on it, looks like they are making this in response to the popularity Oculink has gained over the past couple years and how Oculink is now a deadend. The data transfer rates of Copprlink are INSANE!
As long as it's an open standard, that means we can continue to get cost effective generic options for docks like we do with oculink.
@EzaneeGires PCI-SIG are the ones that created the Copprlink cabling standard. They also create most of the cabling standards available for PC tech. All it needs now is to be fully vetted, then manufactured.
@@kulilin3104 if they can make the cable connector the same shape as oculink that would be good right? Think it would be interchangeable?
Thanks for the timely review! Just ordered one of these to replace my GPD G1. I use a GPD Win Max 2 7840u as my main PC and while the G1 has been great, the fan noise and power level had me looking around for alternatives and this is a perfect fit!
If you want to shrink down that M-ATX build look up the SAMA IM01. the case is under 60 usd (might be more because of shipping) and barely larger than the external doc.
I'd never use an external GPU with a mini-PC. It just doesn't make sense in a world with mini-ITX PC cases, which can be very small and have all the advantages of regular PCs. I swear that Razor enclosure is bigger than some ITX cases I've seen.
I think Russ is right that an external GPU enclosure makes the most sense as a (or as part of a) laptop docking station.
It's great with the GPD devices. You can take the pc and all the files with you in a pocketable device, then when you wanna dock for some reason you can.
Yeah, I want to do it! Ordered one for my Minisforum UM780 XTX. Thanks Russ.
Very nice review! just found your channel and with this only video im a subscriber
I love that this thing exists and that it has occulink, but I agree that this should go one step forward and be a thunderbolt dock in the future as well, so to be the thing between your laptop/mini computer, and your Monitor/VR headset/etc… I also think, Minisforum is standing on really powerful combination if there next tablet has occulink or the next thunderbolt built in.
When choosing a powersupply that is closer to the power requirements of your psu, always check the rail wattages.
The Silverstone you chose is a great PSU because the 12 volt rail (used by the gpus) is a single unified rail.
Many cheaper power supplies split the 12 volt rail, which means when you comnect it yo your gpu you have to make sure you use both rails or there wont be enough power for the gpu.
For example, some 450 watt psu might have 50 watts allocated to 3 volt and 5 volt rails and the remaining 400 watts allocated to 12 volt. But if the 400 watts is split across 2 rails youll only have 200 watts per rail.
If your gpu needs 250 watts you need to make sure you use both power rails so younneed to plug both 12 volt cables into the gpu, you shouldnt use the splitter cables.
Oculink + oculink open case from Chyna connected to my winmax. Done. You don't need some crazy overpriced enclosure.
So much better than Thunderbolt 4.
Handheld gaming computer also a laptop, workstation plugged into monitors, absolutely amazing all in one device + eGPU.
Minisforum is killing it. What a great, simple solution. I'm not in the market for something like this, but if I was, I would totally get this one.
Gonna have to bookmark this because I'm planning on setting up my 3090 as an eGPU for my laptop in my RV when the 5090 comes out.
You are awesome, really great videos, thanks a lot for your work 😊
Great perspective, Russ, as always!
I've got a 3050 ti 4 GB in my laptop and I feel like an eGPU would still be cheaper than a whole build even though that is a future goal of mine. Love that U-Turn Orbit on the left also.
Russ你这跨界跨的太大了，外接电脑显卡也测评上了。 好看：）
Also add the price for an Oculink cable, an M.2 adapter (if you wish to integrate into a laptop that has the PCIE M.2 slot). Another say $US40. The remove the laptop base cover and connect it every time you wish for an eGPU boost. Not many devices has this connector and by the time it hits mainstream, TB5 will be released. Then you need a compatible eGPU to support it. eGPU these days are good to expand gaming handhelds and laptops to ~50% FPS increase on average and output to mutiple screens. Still a fad at this stage.
I use an eGPU for my work laptop that only has the intel iGPU so I can use it for field work, but also can use it for light gaming at home. However, since oculink is rare, I went with a thunderbolt 3 dock instead.
Amazon has pretty cheap ones, I got mine for 150 and then bought a RTX 4060 and seasonic SFX supply. I do get occasional FPS micro dips, but it's really not bad. It's also not my permanent gaming machine anyway.
Plus having a TB passthrough and a USB-A port makes it a useable dock for working at home. It only has 4x lanes of PCI gen 3, but I still can get 100+ FPS at 1440p on mid settings on the couple games and benchmarks I tried.
Perfect timing, I was looking at doing this for Ally X.
I really hope Oculink powers become a more standard inclusion on PC hardware going forward. Imagine being able to get a really inexpensive laptop for say collage, then when you get home being able to hook it up to a dock with a good GPU and getting the benefits of a desktop while keeping the benefits of a laptop. Hell, even a laptop with a rather underpowered GPU already built in for a reasonable price with the port for use with a home dock would be pretty rad. Like if Valve had thought of this with the Steam Deck, they could have made damn near the perfect gaming system. Portable with reasonable gaming performance on the go, and a home dock that add the GPU horsepower a desktop can boast, while keeping ALL your files on one system. As someone who has a reasonable desktop, and a Steam Deck honestly speaking I'd have damn near never built my PC if I had an Oculink option on the Steam Deck (and yes, I'm aware of converter cables for M.2 to add a cable. Issue there is you now have a cable you have to deal with that hinders the portable nature of the system, defeating the point) and honestly speaking, I'd buy a whole new Steam Deck if they released a revision that adds the Oculink port and probably convert my desktop to an Oculink dock for it.
Thank you for this video, been waiting for a unbox video everywhere. the website doesnt say anything about the Oculink cable. :)
I'll wait for 16 inch slim laptop, that can connect to oculink and it will be perfect setup
This reminds me of the Aliexpress DIY dock but with oculink instead of an nvme drive connector.
At this point you might as well have a mini itx pc. I have one and it’s about the same footprint as your setup. Some of the builds I’ve seen are smaller than yours. And you get full size CPUs, full performance ram, fully modular storage, etc. and it’s all upgradable.
I looked into eGPUs since I needed a laptop and found it to be not for me. My life has changed, and I'll be travelling a lot every year. I wanted something that allowed me to work on the go and let me game when I was settled. I didn't want to have to carry around a gaming laptop just so I could game on the go so I did look at portable eGPUs and maybe other handhelds. In the end I found eGPUs to be too niche of a product and there wasn't enough selection to fit my needs.
In the end I turned my PC at home into a game streaming PC and set up a VPN at home. When I'm on the go now I can just VPN back to my home and stream games from my desktop PC. To me it's an overall better experience and allows me to not have to worry about any compatibility issues or have to carry extra weight when travelling.
There are some pretty interesting vertical PC case designs now that alleviate a lot of these problems. With small ITX PCs, though, you end up paying slightly more for components, but they are of course still replaceable and modular. When I started getting (back) into PC gaming more than a decade ago, I was still able to fit an ITX PC and monitor into my tiny 630 sq. ft. Seattle house. Plus, that PC still runs and is now my home NAS/server. I like mini PCs and think they have a place, but I doubt any of them will have that kind of longevity. And of course, the ability to be repaired is non-existent. I agree with Russ, though, this would be really compelling if it also had USB-C functionality, whether instead of or even in addition to the Oculink connection.
I like an egpu combo with the GPD Win Mini better. You can close the clamshell and link an external mouse an keyboard in an ultra compact set up. I take my mini everywhere!
External GPUs have started to tick upwards much more quickly over the past 6-9 months. But I really think it'll be the company that makes one with a more basic/streamlined power supply, essentially a single PCIe power connector and rail that will get the next big endorsement as the "one to buy". If that MinisForum model had essentially enclosed a 250W AC/DC powerbrick inside the bottom of that case and do away with the need for a separate PSU, that would be the much more preferred model I think buyers would go for.
But to be fair, the triple fan 2.5-3 slot coolers on the RTX 3000 series are a bit overkill. I have the 3080 in a similar configuration, and I've never seen it get over 64 degrees even under heavy load in a full ATX case. That 3060 TI's PCB probably doesn't even touch much of the third fan at all. But you should still be able to find plenty of them available, especially if you have access to a Micro Center. I always thought the 3060 TI was the sweet spot of the 3000 series if you could get it around $350, maybe closer $300 with today's newer offerings. Cheers!
And yah, I picked up one of those Razer eGPU cases off eBay last year for about $200... and man, they are big, and they are HEAVY! That is not a solution I would use if I wanted a "more portable" PC/pack-it-to-grandma's setup. I have an ITX PC build that's essentially the same size as a SFF PC (like the small Dell and Lenovo PCs you see in offices and schools, but with a proper dedicated 2-slot GPU (GTX 1080 in my case)), and that thing is way easier to manage when you consider it weighs essentially the same and has everything included. That Razer box just sits in the closet now.
dang, i have the same set up! Same mini PC, an oculink dock. I'm using a 4070TS to power my 4K TV and I've been having a blast, running most games on 4K 60fps!
The main fear is the durability of the oculink connection. Apparently it is not made to be plugged and unplugged daily like USBC.
Imagine it breaking in six months…
i cant believe it took this long for someone to release something like this
Oculink is just an externalized version of PCIe, this is basically a less janky way to externalize PCIe than those USB-C adapters that came out that only supported x1 mode. Therefore you can get adapter cards for laptops that will support the interface anyways, it's literally a m.2 with a port slapped on it, nothing else, lol. Not as elegant as a side-plug, but there are options.
This steamdeck mod lowkey is bussin 😮
Love this video! Maybe more videos on different gpu used ?
Many mini PCs can be mounted right to the back of your monitor via a Vesa mount adapter. Hiding it completely. Then you have just the GPU dock in full view.
Last year i bought a pc since upgrading a minipc with a gpu wasn't really a realistic thing. Now i'm glad it's becoming one. So my next pc might well be a mini pc or laptop that i can connect a external gpu to. Just hope more docks like this pop up and it remains affordable.
I think the space restrictions mentioned very often, are not very valid. Presenting an mATX case as if that was the only solution is not much. I used the NZXT H1 a while and even took it with me to hotels. I would not recommend it for traveling but its fits every desk and can support most GPUs. At least every 3060ti there is. And there are many other ITX cases that save a lot desk-space. The eGPU is a very niche solution. I have one from Sonnet that I use for Macs via Thunderbolt 3. But being honest, I am a nerd and tinkerer. To use such a set-up at home just to use a mini PC is kinda pointless. The Razer with all those ports, had the advantage to use it as a dock for Laptops. That kinda made it valid in my eyes. You get the Mobilty of a Laptop, with the graphics power at home. It can game but its not a gamer setup. Also .. need to find something with OCulink
I would be a lot more interested in this if it ran over USB 4 or Thunderbolt. A little too limited by oculink, but I hope they'll look at making a version with broader compatibility!
Ты был переводчиком с русского? Потрясающе, ты потрясающий!) спасибо за всё
Thankyou for think sounds just like what I'm looking for as a set up so glad thos video popped up
You need PCVR to really experience spiderman, it's incredible, you're actually swinging through the city
Nice review. That is almost the same size as my mini ITX DAN A4s build with the same GPU. I’m sure thermals are better sitting there in the open though
I appreciate this product but holy hell the footprint is big, bigger than many ITX builds. I get that it's for compatibility reasons but I wish there was a more slimline model that demanded SFX or smaller PSU and let the card hang over the edge of the base. On the upside, it's big enough that if you can route the PSU cables tight enough, there should be room in front of an SFX to tape an entire mini-PC in place back there.
31:34 in a perfect world companies would just adopt Occulink rather than relying on heavily restricted formats like Thunderbolt that require an expensive license and run like trash. You can get add-on cards to (jankily) add Occulink to anything with an M.2 port, because it's an entirely passive standard adapted from PCIe and entirely open source with no licensing, it's just a port with some resistors and a simple little controller on the dock's side.
Damn you went from a %60 performance gain in Zero Dawn at the same settings with TB to a %320 performance gain in Doom Eternal with oculink at HIGHER settings! This is the kind of HUGE performance gains you should expect going from a (decent) iGPU/APU to even just a mid-range (at best) GPU like the 3060 Ti and this makes eGPU's actually worth considering as IMHO the previous TB setup was just a waste of a GPU. When you're loosing most of the GPU's performance (and the enclosure with PSU costs that much) you really should just consider a budget ITX build but now we have MUCH better performance at a much lower price. Maybe the Steam Deck 2(?) or ROG Ally 2 will have oculink??
Love the concept and practicality but as you mentioned, it will be perfect if you're already on an Oculink ecosystem.
i just get a same egpu dock, and cant wait to get all thing done
Great Channel! learned so much. I think you might be selling eGPU a little short on the min pc front. It would be great to do a round up of laptops and desktops with the 6/780m. I've been looking at a dell 16 laptop with a 780m for $650 but trying to build a desktop with a top iGpu at anywhere close to the $350 - $500 that you can get a 6/780m mini on amazon is tough. Given the low 30 watt tdp of the dell laptop I'd expect worse performance than the mini. Basically this eGpu looks nice for those that want to get their ps3/wii u fix on a mini and then maybe in the future step up to Cyberpunk 2077. I just can't find a desktop in the $500 range that does retro gaming as well a 6/780m mini but with the ability to at a later date add a dGpu.
13:13 - I'm fine with a "weird" mini pc + eGPU deconstructed aesthetic. It reminds me of a test bench pc, where piecemealing the setup can be interesting and rewarding.
While I love this, honestly, I really love it, it's just not feasible due to the lack of Oculink pc's that would make it a must have. Agreed that a Thunderbolt port would have been a must on it, hopefully they do it. A desktop makes much more sense and will be MUCH cheaper overall. Hopefully more makes will support Oculink in the near future, it's a real win doing so. Great review as always Russ!
It's great because many mini pcs getting discounted heavily overtime.. you can switch your mini pc and get a totally new amd platform with latest ram and ssds and new cpus.
That's why I think this set-up will age very well. Hopefully though manufacturers start using oculink more.. Even if you don't switch your mini pc, you can simply only upgrade your gpu, which is the primary factor to consider if your intention is gaming only. some people go nearly a decade without changing their cpus.
I just wish you would make another video using an AMD gpu mainly because they're much more affordable and get better software support (adrenaline app not needing an account is a huge plus). i wonder how that experience would be cause Nvidia GPUs are simply too expensive and quickly get abandoned by nvidia by the time a new series is released even if they're powerful as is you can't help but feel left out and abandoned by nvidia. Also I'm curious if SAM gives a performance boost through oculink...
Basically i think you can build a lot cheaper pcs going with amd over invidia especially with this kind of setup. Just an idea.
I've been trying to create a setup for my TV with my Legion Go. I have a spare 2080 Super that I wanted to connect it to but I have yet to find a reasonable price for an eGPU dock/enclosure. Its unfortunate that minisforum released an oculink only version.
I'm really hoping for a mobile/handheld + external GPU setup in the future. Then I can get rid of my gaming desktop to save space (I use it almost exclusively for VR nowadays).
But I am going to wait and hope that the next big Steam Deck upgrade has eGPU compatibility (Thunderbolt 4 or 5?). Then I can play it on-the-go, but then also be able to dock it as my desktop (which I don't do often now) and use it for heavier games there. Or at least play games in 1440p at high settings instead of mid/low and 720/800p on the handheld screen (for the games that run lesser on the deck).
Another good use case, if you use a laptop provided to you by your office, and it does not have a dedicated GPU, you can use these and avoid having to buy a new laptop just for gaming
Seems nice (tho quite limited with only an oculink port) but seing the graphic card and power supply all in the open air like that without even a filter make me wonder if dust won't become quickly an issue...
At least you won't need to dust off your desk anymore if you put this on it, as it will work as a great static vacuum cleaner with all these fans.