The scene at the beginning has nothing to do with the rest of the episode?! Are you kidding me? The artists are all looking at the same image and reconstructing it in their art. Just as the characters on that station will reconstruct their own interpretation of events in the holodeck simulation
The Kreeger waves werent understood before So it would be impossible to have a safety, but if it hadn't generated the kreeger waves, Riker was Guilty of murder
I always thought the recreations were silly. If Riker fired a phaser, then he'd be beamed onto the ship holding a phaser. Someone ask O'Brien if he was holding a weapon.
Exactly. Or ya know, what about the vastly differing testimony of events that was shown. should we go with majority rules? if so, then that's clearly where Riker wasn't hit cuz that was some thirdparty hearing the story from ONE of the participants, and then deciding Riker is guilty cuz of hearsay.... how is that planet even still functioning if they go the Japanese route of Justice!?
they probably would have brought that up in the trial, but this was only a hearing. or the simplest answer the writers knew, but purposely omitted it so as to wratched up the tension.
Yeah. The whole point of an extradition hearing is to be sure the charges are reasonable, and if a person can be safely handed over. Go down to the planet, and they can do whatever they want now.
@@icecold9511 except that there is no edo god/reused model for the conundrum command station that could stop the Enterprise from establishing the rule of "neena neena i own the high orbitals so i am your king now"
You must not have been listening when Geordi explained how the Kregor waves were manifested on the ship. The lambda wave generator on the planet was the source of the initial energy, completely harmless until converted & focused by the apparatus on the holodeck into Kregor waves. The holodeck merely acted as a lens; (this time) & although an early prototype, the Kregor waves' potential destructive power was limited only by the wave generator, which may have considerably exceeded the holodeck (or the even the ship)
Given it was an unknown not even officially discovered variable the computer also couldn't account for the fact it's simulation was creating it, further Data is the one who supposedly designed the simulation to be as accurate as possible, so of course, the "lens" as it were was the same as the one on the station and had the same if somewhat reduced effect.
Essentially it'd be like how the Holodeck can still kill you if you call and break your neck on a hologram rock. The rock wasn't lethal, it was the fall and impact angle that did it.
Painting, especially when it relates to data, is possibly my favorite pointless reoccurring plot element in all of TNG. 9 out of 10 times, when a painting appears on screen there's some sort of gag associated with it
Riker aggressively manhandling someone else's woman did not seem in character for him, nor did killing a woman's husband over it. Idk how you all interpreted that he's the type to do something like that. We've only seen him flirt and respond to women who were willing participants. As a woman myself, the wife's testimony really got under my skin. What a nut. Anyway, this ep demonstrated a classic tv trope where there's each side's story and then the truth somewhere in the middle. I always enjoy seeing the same characters act out opposite sides of the story like this.
I am going to guess you are 45 - 55 whereas these twits are about 25. They are informed by the tropes that has evolved since the show was aired. And the quality of TV has gone up since the 90's.
Also, "murdering" clones that weren't finished cooking yet and killing a woman who was trying to kill someone else (which would fall under justifiable homicide) hardly makes him a "murderer."
A few liberties were taken, a few histories rewritten, but still a very good episode. A murder charge was leveled at Cmdr. Riker, but the assault allegation regarding the wife was never made an official charge. As pointed out, when the murder charge was dropped, the assault allegation disappeared also. As to that, Cmdr. Riker very much liked women, but any intimate contact would have to be consensual. He wasn't the type to force himself in the manner described by the wife.
I found that one pretty odd, too. Even if Riker is acting suspicious, he's still entitled to fair representation under the law. That's not arrogance, that's justice. That said, I don't think these videos have much value as reviews. Too much "This is lazy and stupid, because I think so", not enough "This is lazy and stupid, here's why".
It was his attitude, trying to push Federation expectations on a planet with a different justice system. Like committing a crime in another country and saying, "It's not illegal where I'm from."
@@reverseangle It is one thing to be subject to a specific law. But the assertion of guilty until proven innocent is absurd. As is the idea of the Federation having a friendly relationship with such a people.
@@reverseangle Actually, no that's not a fair comparison. It'd be essentially like my claiming you are guilty now... and you are. and it's your own job and duty to prove otherwise. maybe you should thusly also prove that Santa doesn't exist either since I claim he does. See the hilarious stupidity of that level of 'justice' and 'law', when you have to try and prove a negative? If it ends up being statement against statement, you are also thusly automatically guilty cuz you did not prove your innocence.
I wondered why the heck Riker would bring a Phaser anyways to the station? And if he didn't, were there Phaser-type-energy weapons on the station? If yes, how did Riker get access to them? Wouldn't the transporter log show if there was a Phaser in Riker's hand?
He'd also appear in the position he was 'beamed up' as well and he did not lean around and aiming a phaser either. also is there no way to check his phaser for it's powerlevel and 'last use'? likeh ow you can check a gunbarrel for powder residue and such? It's Sci Fi so I would think that'd be like a primary requirement for such tools JUST IN CASE bullshit like this were to happen.
And the phaser would've still been in Riker's hand if he'd fired it just as transport began. But his hands were empty when he was beamed aboard the Enterprise.
I mean, I'll agree: This is *not* Kurosawa ... but it was a decent attempt. The whole holodeck reflects the waves and nearly destroys the ship bit, though, was kinda bonkers.
Inspector Krag could've asked Geordi independently of Riker if they had made arrangements for quarters on the planet. The testimonies of the wife and the assistant were different from each other, which would introduce some doubt as to whether either gave an accurate account of events.
The painting scene has everything to do with the episode. It's illustrating that the same thing/event can be viewed differently, that it is a 'matter of perspective'.
GEORDI explained that the space station recreation was exactly as the actual station including the refractive mirrors but since they had no substance the radiation hit the USS ENTERPRISE at random places
Or by their law claim that the wife was the guilty party.... cuz obviously she is since he just claimed such cuz that's how justice works for those people.
This episode was clearly trying to be Rashomon in space. A film that I really recommend if you would like to see the concepts in this episode done far better.
It is 100% plausible that 2 people can view the literal same events and come to a 100% opposite interpretation. Watching human interactions on the internet makes that very clear.
One of the best and most important episodes of Star Trek ever. People can remember an event and recall it completely differently. It doesn’t mean they are willfully deceiving (lying).
This is why Witness Testimony is the least valuable evidence, even in this current time. Just look at one girl trying 'he touched me' and suddenly the guy is labled sex offender permanently, even if found innocent after the fact.
People know when they did wrong, or observed it Any fabrication of personality is irrelevant when the facts are stated Riker was transported on board without a weapon, the phaser shot happened at the time of transport. Its impossible Riker took the shot Other cases are this simple, but the lawyers wanna win, even if they are defensing the crook
@@kinagrill for every false rape allegation, there are hundreds of unreported rapes. The odds favor she was raped. We don't have a false allegation problem, we have a rape problem.
@@NWAWskeptic Ahh yes odds. I guess that means we should just claim the people you know as the guilty party cuz of the whole '1-in-4 cases it is caused by someone you know'. Of course, it should be taken seriously, but by going with odds is stupid.
I don't know how this episode with more than 4 minutes with this plot, because it's clearly that Will Riker being back aboard he had no weapon, also we know Transporters can even detect a weapon being fired
I think the holodeck creating Krieger waves was OK, I think the way they explained how the thing functioned was a base station on the planet emitted energy and the space station was basically a passive arrangement of reflectors or something and that was what generated the waves.
It annoys me how they gloss over the alleged attempted rape as if that wasn't something to pursue criminal charges over. Like "Yh they both believe their own stories let's leave it at that"
The woman was caught in a lie of one of the most serious kind. Without the use of Holodeck tech and last minute findings her lie that Riker raped her could have destroyed his life. This is an episode where Deanna Troi could have shined but she proved again that her contributions are minimal at best. This would have been a perfect episode to test Geordi's visor lie detector claim.
This happens irl aswell Thats the meta commentary A horn dog, or ladies man. Is different from a creap. But both cling to women enough to get blamed the same When a ladies man wouldnt ever take advantage of a women, but would capitalize on there faithlessness. The women might make a story in her head to defend her "honor" to her husband
So my main issue with this episode was that in one of the last scenes the enterprise manages to recreate the station to the point it actually generates Kreiger waves. So if any starship can do this - or for that matter any race with holo tech, why exactly does this race go to all the trouble of running these experiments on a space station presumably with significant costs and logistical challenges? Why didn’t Dr Apgar just go to starfleet and go hey guys do you mind if I lease some time on one of your holodecks for the next year or so? Pfft
Agreed about the opening music, sounded like a film score for a period piece set in Victorian England, not Star Trek lol. I thought Dr. Apgar looked more like an overgrown Munchkin with the curled hair & bald on top. "Apgar" is one of the goofier alien names in Star Trek. The Apgar score is used by doctors to evaluate a baby's health. Maybe the writer just had a baby? :-)
She isn't ever proven to be lying though, Troi says they both think they're telling the truth. The whole event between Riker and her is only misdirection from the true motive of the scientist guy trying to kill Riker because he thinks the Federation is on to his scheme to sell the waves as a weapon. We never find out what truly happened in that room, I believe the truth is probably closest to the version where they're both kissing each other mutually.
i like the law and order stuff in space. I just wish it was a bit more interesting. Which is something I say for star trek a lot. Then again I'm a lower decks fan.
Yeah.... like how perhaps events were staged better and there was near irrefutable proof... perhaps recordings but everything seem subtibly 'off' to riker. Like he dun recall having been hit to begin with by Apgar, or having shown a direct interest in return for Apgar's wife, etc.
So calling Riker a liar and murderer is really unfair. When he killed that one lady, he did it because she was attempting to murder another person. He was acting accordingly in the line of duty. The other "murder" is more ethical since we can debate if the clones were alive or not. That gets more into is abortion murder or not. Spoiler, there is not an answer. So yet again, we are being really unfair to the show in the review. However, I always assume for comedic purpose.
6:39 It's explained that the Krieger wave converter is just a bunch of mirrors and reflectors, which a holodeck can easily duplicate. Even low-level trekkies can understand this.
Oh come on. Riker killed that one woman in defense of another person, and vaporized a clone that was made from dna STOLEN from him. A clone that had not even been activated yet. Murderer? No.
I'm surprised that you thought that Mrs. Apgar's interpretation of events sounded more believable. And you saw it as a pissing contest over the ability not to be found defacto guilty based on charges alone? idk that's a hot take and not a very good one. Not a fan of Ryker's but I think the reason her story is stated as 'She believes it's true' is because they didn't want another subplot to resolve about her lying. She believes it, so she could just be a psycho bitch, but we only got 40 minutes so let's wrap it up.
You ruined this. You fool. The whole point of the episode wasn't to make you happy in pants. Or stroke your ego... or satisfy your fascistic need for virtue in everything. It was to say that you take for granted how other people experience events. If you realize that each person has their own context, the meaning of things change as perception is different. Subjective is the word. You see a piece of art hanging on a wall and it reflects you. It will mean something different to each observer. That's the whole point. You present yourself and you're met with different reactions from each person. So when you're in a court battle, you don't really know what the testimonials will be. You don't know how your opponent will present "truth". It was a mind blowing episode for anyone who was paying attention.
This was a dumb, filler, budget episode. The scriptwriter only did this one show, and went on to have success working on Law & Order, which makes sense, given that it feels more like a courtroom drama than Star Trek.
So guys, when did Riker hit on another man's wife? When did he go out of his way to beat up someone over something that stupid and asinine? How is any of that "in character" for Riker? The fact is, you guys just hate the show.
This episode's sense of 'guilty until proven innocent' makes me question how a peaceful society like that could ever function when anyone can literally just say 'you are guilty' and they are by definition guilty of it. If this was Cardassia, yes it'd make sense cuz it's a police state type government that literally have a justice system even WORSE.... you're guilty and you are not on trial to prove your innocence... you're on trial and is required to proclaim your guilt so the justice system can punish you accordingly and show how fair and true-to-justice they are. It's nuts, it's like going 'this or that exists... prove to me it does not'... like the whole god argument. It loses every single sense of 'scientific method' connection. Sure I could understand if that planet's people were highly religious, had a baseline mentality of natural honesty... like Betazoids due to their natural telepathic connection with others. Also yeah eye-witness accounts are about the least trustworthy of 'evidence'. You can have something as basic as a car collision event happen and have 20 eye witnesses and they all give a differing testimony and are all absolutely sure they are telling the truth, because they are - from their perspective... and it's also about their own type of person and whatnot. Some might embellish things without realizing it, some are absolutely certain they could even see the facial expression of both drivers throughout it all (even tho that's completely impossible to do), one might even be completely factual about what they saw, while another person saw something else but is also absolutely accurate in what they saw. And then people can also just plain and simply LIE.
@@kyleshockley1573 yeah and the Soviet Union ain't no more. NK is tiny and closer and closer to losing that control over it's populace. As for china... well, they have gotten more relaxed over the decades compared to earlier. at least as far as I know.
The scene at the beginning has nothing to do with the rest of the episode?! Are you kidding me? The artists are all looking at the same image and reconstructing it in their art. Just as the characters on that station will reconstruct their own interpretation of events in the holodeck simulation
I'd say the opening does have quite a bit to do with the episode, in that every artist is interpreting what they see in the model.
Ah another fine episode of "The holodeck is going to destroy the ship again."
Seriously, who installed that thing without safety features.
@@Canadish
A FCUKING LEAF!!
The Kreeger waves werent understood before
So it would be impossible to have a safety, but if it hadn't generated the kreeger waves, Riker was Guilty of murder
the only more deadly component is the control panels that blow up in your face every time the ship is attacked
“YOURE A DEAD MAN APGAR!!….A DEAD MAN” 😡😂😂
I always thought the recreations were silly. If Riker fired a phaser, then he'd be beamed onto the ship holding a phaser. Someone ask O'Brien if he was holding a weapon.
Exactly. Or ya know, what about the vastly differing testimony of events that was shown. should we go with majority rules? if so, then that's clearly where Riker wasn't hit cuz that was some thirdparty hearing the story from ONE of the participants, and then deciding Riker is guilty cuz of hearsay.... how is that planet even still functioning if they go the Japanese route of Justice!?
he could have hidden the phaser in his prison wallet
they probably would have brought that up in the trial, but this was only a hearing.
or the simplest answer the writers knew, but purposely omitted it so as to wratched up the tension.
to be fair, going down to the planet would mean Picard losing control of the situation. I can see why Picard would want to stay on the Enterprise.
The experience where Wesley was going to be executed for falling on flowers on that one planet probably informed that decision.
Yeah. The whole point of an extradition hearing is to be sure the charges are reasonable, and if a person can be safely handed over.
Go down to the planet, and they can do whatever they want now.
Not to mention that the burden of proof is always on the one making a claim. Otherwise, you have chaos.
@@icecold9511 except that there is no edo god/reused model for the conundrum command station that could stop the Enterprise from establishing the rule of "neena neena i own the high orbitals so i am your king now"
You must not have been listening when Geordi explained how the Kregor waves were manifested on the ship.
The lambda wave generator on the planet was the source of the initial energy, completely harmless until converted & focused by the apparatus on the holodeck into Kregor waves.
The holodeck merely acted as a lens; (this time) & although an early prototype, the Kregor waves' potential destructive power was limited only by the wave generator, which may have considerably exceeded the holodeck (or the even the ship)
Given it was an unknown not even officially discovered variable the computer also couldn't account for the fact it's simulation was creating it, further Data is the one who supposedly designed the simulation to be as accurate as possible, so of course, the "lens" as it were was the same as the one on the station and had the same if somewhat reduced effect.
Essentially it'd be like how the Holodeck can still kill you if you call and break your neck on a hologram rock. The rock wasn't lethal, it was the fall and impact angle that did it.
Yeah but doesn’t the Holodeck have specific security measures that should prevent stuff like THIS to happen?
The Riker stunt double 4:30 is fat. Maybe Frakes didn't know how to pull punches to avoid hurting the other actor.
Painting, especially when it relates to data, is possibly my favorite pointless reoccurring plot element in all of TNG. 9 out of 10 times, when a painting appears on screen there's some sort of gag associated with it
Riker aggressively manhandling someone else's woman did not seem in character for him, nor did killing a woman's husband over it. Idk how you all interpreted that he's the type to do something like that. We've only seen him flirt and respond to women who were willing participants. As a woman myself, the wife's testimony really got under my skin. What a nut. Anyway, this ep demonstrated a classic tv trope where there's each side's story and then the truth somewhere in the middle. I always enjoy seeing the same characters act out opposite sides of the story like this.
It’s a trope that goes back to the Japanese film Kurosawa. Literally every tv show has used it at some point.
Yup, always saw him as a ladies man, but with a moral center. aka. dun go for married women cuz that's just bad juju man.
I am going to guess you are 45 - 55 whereas these twits are about 25. They are informed by the tropes that has evolved since the show was aired.
And the quality of TV has gone up since the 90's.
Also, "murdering" clones that weren't finished cooking yet and killing a woman who was trying to kill someone else (which would fall under justifiable homicide) hardly makes him a "murderer."
A few liberties were taken, a few histories rewritten, but still a very good episode. A murder charge was leveled at Cmdr. Riker, but the assault allegation regarding the wife was never made an official charge. As pointed out, when the murder charge was dropped, the assault allegation disappeared also. As to that, Cmdr. Riker very much liked women, but any intimate contact would have to be consensual. He wasn't the type to force himself in the manner described by the wife.
This concept of repeating the story through different perspectives is often first credited to that old Japanese movie Rashomon right?
That's the most famous example, but not the first.
Reciting the long held tradition of being innocent until proven guilty makes Picard "arrogant"?
I found that one pretty odd, too. Even if Riker is acting suspicious, he's still entitled to fair representation under the law. That's not arrogance, that's justice.
That said, I don't think these videos have much value as reviews. Too much "This is lazy and stupid, because I think so", not enough "This is lazy and stupid, here's why".
It was his attitude, trying to push Federation expectations on a planet with a different justice system. Like committing a crime in another country and saying, "It's not illegal where I'm from."
@@reverseangle
It is one thing to be subject to a specific law. But the assertion of guilty until proven innocent is absurd. As is the idea of the Federation having a friendly relationship with such a people.
@@icecold9511 It's how it works in Japan btw.
@@reverseangle Actually, no that's not a fair comparison. It'd be essentially like my claiming you are guilty now... and you are. and it's your own job and duty to prove otherwise.
maybe you should thusly also prove that Santa doesn't exist either since I claim he does.
See the hilarious stupidity of that level of 'justice' and 'law', when you have to try and prove a negative? If it ends up being statement against statement, you are also thusly automatically guilty cuz you did not prove your innocence.
I wondered why the heck Riker would bring a Phaser anyways to the station? And if he didn't, were there Phaser-type-energy weapons on the station? If yes, how did Riker get access to them? Wouldn't the transporter log show if there was a Phaser in Riker's hand?
Good questions.
My first thought, watching this today. And it wasn't brought up at all.
He'd also appear in the position he was 'beamed up' as well and he did not lean around and aiming a phaser either.
also is there no way to check his phaser for it's powerlevel and 'last use'? likeh ow you can check a gunbarrel for powder residue and such? It's Sci Fi so I would think that'd be like a primary requirement for such tools JUST IN CASE bullshit like this were to happen.
And the phaser would've still been in Riker's hand if he'd fired it just as transport began. But his hands were empty when he was beamed aboard the Enterprise.
I mean, I'll agree: This is *not* Kurosawa ... but it was a decent attempt. The whole holodeck reflects the waves and nearly destroys the ship bit, though, was kinda bonkers.
Hector Salamanca hated Riker as much as he hated Gus
Inspector Krag could've asked Geordi independently of Riker if they had made arrangements for quarters on the planet. The testimonies of the wife and the assistant were different from each other, which would introduce some doubt as to whether either gave an accurate account of events.
Why didn't they conduct a 24hr, regressive memory check, on Will Riker, and the other witnesses?
Good point. Starfleet had that capability even back on the original series as evidenced in the episode "Wolf in the Fold."
Great review, guys. Entertaining as always. 3:25 Mark Margolis is in Scarface too, he and Tony Montana get on well. :P
The painting scene has everything to do with the episode. It's illustrating that the same thing/event can be viewed differently, that it is a 'matter of perspective'.
GEORDI
explained that the
space station recreation was
exactly as the actual station
including
the refractive mirrors
but since they had no substance
the radiation hit the
USS ENTERPRISE
at random places
0:36 - "I see a beautiful woman, and I'd like to paint her naked, so all her clothes fall off."
Instantly.
I loved fat Riker stunt double
Ahh the old classic "In our justice system, the accused is guilty until proven innocent!"
OK, _you_ did it. Checkmate.
Riker should have used the My Cousin Vinny method: "Everything that guy said is bullshit."
Or by their law claim that the wife was the guilty party.... cuz obviously she is since he just claimed such cuz that's how justice works for those people.
This is a throw-away episode. D. I didn't really care for the episode at all.
So the episode is Boondock Saints a decade before being filmed.
9 months later they find out the truth about her and riker.
if they went down to the planet
the authorities could've
SEIZED RIKER
by force
This episode was clearly trying to be Rashomon in space. A film that I really recommend if you would like to see the concepts in this episode done far better.
Definitely. I still believe the final testimony in Rashomon is correct, because it is unflattering to all the characters involved.
It is 100% plausible that 2 people can view the literal same events and come to a 100% opposite interpretation. Watching human interactions on the internet makes that very clear.
One of the best and most important episodes of Star Trek ever.
People can remember an event and recall it completely differently. It doesn’t mean they are willfully deceiving (lying).
This is why Witness Testimony is the least valuable evidence, even in this current time.
Just look at one girl trying 'he touched me' and suddenly the guy is labled sex offender permanently, even if found innocent after the fact.
People know when they did wrong, or observed it
Any fabrication of personality is irrelevant when the facts are stated
Riker was transported on board without a weapon, the phaser shot happened at the time of transport. Its impossible Riker took the shot
Other cases are this simple, but the lawyers wanna win, even if they are defensing the crook
@@kinagrill for every false rape allegation, there are hundreds of unreported rapes. The odds favor she was raped. We don't have a false allegation problem, we have a rape problem.
@@NWAWskeptic Ahh yes odds. I guess that means we should just claim the people you know as the guilty party cuz of the whole '1-in-4 cases it is caused by someone you know'.
Of course, it should be taken seriously, but by going with odds is stupid.
I don't know how this episode with more than 4 minutes with this plot, because it's clearly that Will Riker being back aboard he had no weapon, also we know Transporters can even detect a weapon being fired
I think the holodeck creating Krieger waves was OK, I think the way they explained how the thing functioned was a base station on the planet emitted energy and the space station was basically a passive arrangement of reflectors or something and that was what generated the waves.
Haven't listened all the way through it but what I have listened to set you off as some kind of ken
I don't know what that means. Can you explain it? I suspect I may agree but can't be sure without really understanding.
It annoys me how they gloss over the alleged attempted rape as if that wasn't something to pursue criminal charges over. Like "Yh they both believe their own stories let's leave it at that"
The woman was caught in a lie of one of the most serious kind. Without the use of Holodeck tech and last minute findings her lie that Riker raped her could have destroyed his life.
This is an episode where Deanna Troi could have shined but she proved again that her contributions are minimal at best.
This would have been a perfect episode to test Geordi's visor lie detector claim.
I agree, that was such a terrible thing to accuse him of. Troi was utterly useless here. Surely, she can tell if Riker is lying about killing someone.
This happens irl aswell
Thats the meta commentary
A horn dog, or ladies man. Is different from a creap. But both cling to women enough to get blamed the same
When a ladies man wouldnt ever take advantage of a women, but would capitalize on there faithlessness. The women might make a story in her head to defend her "honor" to her husband
Humans suck, and the lies they tell are worse then the travesties we are capable of
So my main issue with this episode was that in one of the last scenes the enterprise manages to recreate the station to the point it actually generates Kreiger waves.
So if any starship can do this - or for that matter any race with holo tech, why exactly does this race go to all the trouble of running these experiments on a space station presumably with significant costs and logistical challenges?
Why didn’t Dr Apgar just go to starfleet and go hey guys do you mind if I lease some time on one of your holodecks for the next year or so? Pfft
I remember watching this one and thinking Riker for sure killed that guy so he could steal his wife!
Agreed about the opening music, sounded like a film score for a period piece set in Victorian England, not Star Trek lol.
I thought Dr. Apgar looked more like an overgrown Munchkin with the curled hair & bald on top.
"Apgar" is one of the goofier alien names in Star Trek. The Apgar score is used by doctors to evaluate a baby's health. Maybe the writer just had a baby? :-)
Troi was completely useless here. The woman was lying yet Troi couldn't tell.
She isn't ever proven to be lying though, Troi says they both think they're telling the truth. The whole event between Riker and her is only misdirection from the true motive of the scientist guy trying to kill Riker because he thinks the Federation is on to his scheme to sell the waves as a weapon. We never find out what truly happened in that room, I believe the truth is probably closest to the version where they're both kissing each other mutually.
When is Troi NOT useless...?
I was just watching Friday the 13th part 7 and it's obvious they "borrowed" the melody of this episode from that movie.
Best episode so far. JK.
i like the law and order stuff in space. I just wish it was a bit more interesting. Which is something I say for star trek a lot. Then again I'm a lower decks fan.
It got better when they defused mariners cast killing dominance
Yeah.... like how perhaps events were staged better and there was near irrefutable proof... perhaps recordings but everything seem subtibly 'off' to riker. Like he dun recall having been hit to begin with by Apgar, or having shown a direct interest in return for Apgar's wife, etc.
So calling Riker a liar and murderer is really unfair. When he killed that one lady, he did it because she was attempting to murder another person. He was acting accordingly in the line of duty. The other "murder" is more ethical since we can debate if the clones were alive or not. That gets more into is abortion murder or not. Spoiler, there is not an answer. So yet again, we are being really unfair to the show in the review. However, I always assume for comedic purpose.
Killing your own clone is still murder.
😂 he’s a sycophantic homicide doer. He’s Picardy’s muscle in his intergalactic quest to ignore the Prime Detective 🕵️♂️
This was a funny episode. I love it
Rashomon in space. Also dingd8ngding
6:39 It's explained that the Krieger wave converter is just a bunch of mirrors and reflectors, which a holodeck can easily duplicate. Even low-level trekkies can understand this.
The fact that this episode is as awful as it is, is why it's one of my favorite ones to watch. Hilarious and entertaining.
Oh come on. Riker killed that one woman in defense of another person, and vaporized a clone that was made from dna STOLEN from him. A clone that had not even been activated yet.
Murderer? No.
Killing your own clone is still murder.
@@DeltaAssaultGaming Not if it hasn't developed sentience yet.
Another court episode. I agree with the D-
This episode gave me the toots.
I'm surprised that you thought that Mrs. Apgar's interpretation of events sounded more believable.
And you saw it as a pissing contest over the ability not to be found defacto guilty based on charges alone?
idk that's a hot take and not a very good one.
Not a fan of Ryker's but I think the reason her story is stated as 'She believes it's true' is because they didn't want another subplot to resolve about her lying.
She believes it, so she could just be a psycho bitch, but we only got 40 minutes so let's wrap it up.
You ruined this.
You fool.
The whole point of the episode wasn't to make you happy in pants.
Or stroke your ego... or satisfy your fascistic need for virtue in everything.
It was to say that you take for granted how other people experience events.
If you realize that each person has their own context, the meaning of things change as perception is different.
Subjective is the word.
You see a piece of art hanging on a wall and it reflects you.
It will mean something different to each observer.
That's the whole point.
You present yourself and you're met with different reactions from each person.
So when you're in a court battle, you don't really know what the testimonials will be.
You don't know how your opponent will present "truth".
It was a mind blowing episode for anyone who was paying attention.
When are we gonna get to an actually good episode lol
They're coming, we swear.
This was a dumb, filler, budget episode. The scriptwriter only did this one show, and went on to have success working on Law & Order, which makes sense, given that it feels more like a courtroom drama than Star Trek.
Riker killing the clones was murder. Regardless of the crime against him, clearly the clones were innocent.
Agreed
then by your statement abortion is also murder. Clones weren't fully grown and were not yet 'alive and sentient'.
I wouldn't consider it murder if they weren't conscious yet, and the cloning was done without permission.
🧐🧐🧐
D!
So guys, when did Riker hit on another man's wife? When did he go out of his way to beat up someone over something that stupid and asinine? How is any of that "in character" for Riker? The fact is, you guys just hate the show.
This episode's sense of 'guilty until proven innocent' makes me question how a peaceful society like that could ever function when anyone can literally just say 'you are guilty' and they are by definition guilty of it. If this was Cardassia, yes it'd make sense cuz it's a police state type government that literally have a justice system even WORSE.... you're guilty and you are not on trial to prove your innocence... you're on trial and is required to proclaim your guilt so the justice system can punish you accordingly and show how fair and true-to-justice they are.
It's nuts, it's like going 'this or that exists... prove to me it does not'... like the whole god argument. It loses every single sense of 'scientific method' connection. Sure I could understand if that planet's people were highly religious, had a baseline mentality of natural honesty... like Betazoids due to their natural telepathic connection with others.
Also yeah eye-witness accounts are about the least trustworthy of 'evidence'. You can have something as basic as a car collision event happen and have 20 eye witnesses and they all give a differing testimony and are all absolutely sure they are telling the truth, because they are - from their perspective... and it's also about their own type of person and whatnot.
Some might embellish things without realizing it, some are absolutely certain they could even see the facial expression of both drivers throughout it all (even tho that's completely impossible to do), one might even be completely factual about what they saw, while another person saw something else but is also absolutely accurate in what they saw.
And then people can also just plain and simply LIE.
We're literally living the transformation of American society into guilty until proven innocent.
Ironic that the justice system you describe was point-for-point what the Soviet Union practiced, and the CCP / NK still does.
@@kyleshockley1573 yeah and the Soviet Union ain't no more. NK is tiny and closer and closer to losing that control over it's populace. As for china... well, they have gotten more relaxed over the decades compared to earlier. at least as far as I know.