The Ancient One has elements of Tsathoggua. A Greater Old one, he is said to mostly sleep and slumber however if awoken he would consume whoever woke him unless you offer an acceptable tribute in your place. Also referred to as “The Whisperer in the Darkness.”
They need to tie shit up, get the world on a plateau, and start fresh with grounded storylines. Legion was awesome, a perfect climax. Then it just kinda….. continued. WOWS been going going uphill for nearly a decade and Im just exhausted. I just want to adventure in Kalimdor again.
it might have been intentional but the bigger reason is much more simple. Alex Afriasabi is unimaginably stupid. Most of the time he was just saying random things to make himself look smart.
The other interesting thing about Ulderoth is that you would think that a titan-controlled planet free of corruption would be the “true timeline” that they would want to preserve, but it’s just an invading offshoot that Soridormi wants to eliminate like the rest. There’s an implication that the actual world-soul of Azeroth in that timeline is either dead or nonexistent, so there wouldn’t be the most optimal way for the Titans to gain control of the cosmos.
It could very well be a planet with plant and animal life but perhaps devoid of sentient life. A world that is both alive and populated but also a world that is basically depopulated of its people in way that the titans want to ensure their way of absolute order by removing the chaotic factors that the races may present.
@tangerino Hmmm, strange, that was not my interpretation of the Ulderoth timeline at all. I got the impression from reading the Ulderoth lore stuff that the titans only "believed" they had won. In reality, the Cosmic Team Life seemed to have greater influence there and was probably even resisting or fighting back against the titans. Some versions or factions within the Cosmic Team Life seem to not really care about intelligent small mortals at all and rather prefer to have large obedient Animal creatures and gigantic Plant mounds which assimilate anything to continue growing the mound.
@@laertesindeed There is werid lore confusion, either every timeline's Azeroth has a World Soul or only our timeline Azeroth has World Soul and so its why the Titans wanted it protected.
@@TK199999 You've presented a logical fallacy known as a false dichotomy. It is faulty reasoning and is not an accurate description of known wow lore, either. And beyond that.....your false dichotomy doesn't even approach the real question asked by the original commenter; since there is an Aman'thul in the Ulderoth universe and there is an Aman'thul in the Azeroth universe. Thus the original commenter points to the real question...... why is the Aman'thul in our universe preserving this chain of events which have included so much suffering for himself if there was the possibility of preserving a victory of titan forces way back at the moment of their arrival? Because there is undeniably and irrefutably an Aman'thul in that universe which is preserving that imperfect victory also. And there was a world soul inside of Azeroth for the total old god victory time rift as well....where there "was" an Aman'thul that got defeated.
Bellular this book about five old gods says five original old gods were IMPRISONED. That means two unknown ones as Y'Shaarj wasn't imprisoned and g'huun was made later. Shortly: We have found three of the five originally imprisoned old gods C'thun, Yogg Saron and N'zoth. Edit: "The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the five evil gods far beneath the surface of the world." I don't think Y'Shaarj is included in these five, for he was already torn asunder at this time. And though his heart was stowed away, he himself was not chained far beneath the surface of the world.
@@Clarketh He is basically a titans creation based on the pattern of a old god. So yeah he is more an old good as everything else but how I said, a Titans Creation and not counting for the ordering of azeroths claims. I also would say that they counting Y'shaarj in, because of his splattered Bodyparts Ra and his Mogu take care off after Amanthul playing Dr Pimple Popper.
@@Clarketh I would call g'huun an honourable mention as he as an experiment on old god essence went rouge, were imprisoned in a titan facility, and had command over a C'thraxxi warbringer and weird tentacles. 😊
@7:35 Not sure if you mentioned this, but the mobs in the area around Zal'kir also seem to be 'mutated' trolls and tauren... IE the "original" races of Azeroth that we know would've been around during the original ordering of Azeroth.
You and Matt help a lot to keep this game interesting. You make a lot of jokes about it, but Blizzard SHOULD write you both a fat check... and the rights to use Tuskarr in The Pale Beyond lol
One more thing that we can glean from the time rifts is the soft confirmation that Sargeras's sword stuck in Silithus may indeed be Gorribal. The trinket we can get from the Ulderoth timeline directly namedrops Seschenal, the staff that Eonar wields according to the old RPG lore, which also named the half of Gorschalach that Sargeras found and reforged as Gorribal.
The name K'thanth seems heavily inspired in the god Ghatanothoa from HP Lovecraft's Out of the Aeons story. There that god is misremembered through the ages by several names. One of its powers is to petrify those who look at it and even imagining a close aproximation of its figure can kill.
A note on the wording from Xal'atath, she says "Battle FOR K'tanth". Generally, when a battle is fought at a location, it is called "battle of". By using "for", it implies K'tanth is not just the location of the battle, but the price that was fought over. Now, Xal'atath also mention the place of the battle is a place of power, implying that "battle FOR K'tanth" simply means this specific location is the "price" of the battle. They fought to gain control of this place of power. As such, K'tanth is not a person, but also not necessarily the name of the zone. It could be like the Well of Eternity, like a specific thing that happened to be at that place, but not just an object you could move - otherwise it wouldn't be described as a PLACE of power. I think the most interesting thing here is that, despite N'Zoth losing the battle for K'tanth, it worked in his favour. Let's think about the one big undesirable thing that happened to Y'Shaarj - he was killed by the Titans. Now, why him? Well, it is well known that he was the strongest of the Old Gods. Kind of curious that the strongest of the Old Gods also happened to, prior to this, have won the battle for this mysterious place of power. Well, what if this place of power is really the reason Y'Shaarj was more powerful than the other Old Gods? And it worked in N'Zoth favour because had he won, he would have been the one killed by the Titans. But what have recently happened? The titans have all been locked away. In other words, it might be the right time to take control of the place of power. Since it is hinted that N'Zoth is not fully defeated, and we also do not know what the deal with Xal'atath is, I believe the power of K'tanth will soon be harvested. This place of power could be some kind of semi-alive, embodiment of hunger. Not an actual entity like a person or Old God, but more than just a magical power source. This would explain the references to hunger. It could also be the remains of a dead, much more powerful, old god. Something so powerful, that the place of its death is now a place of power, a place of hunger.
It's Garithos. Garithos is coming. It wasn't a coincidence he was completely missing from Shadowlands. His disgust of Blood Elves is so great that he's too angry to die. Even the mere idea that Azeroth, in any time line, harbored anything remotely elf-like is enough to have him move towards it. Jokes withstanding alternate time lines are kind of dumb, especially with how badly handled WOD was.
Lord* Garithos you peasant. He managed to get one of those space ship and has travelled to the future where he became Emperor of Mankind known as psykers.
Can we have ONE expansion that involves intrigue and internal strife amongst mortals; without having any cosmic, dragon, magic nonsense? A straight up mystery that has no old god crap involved. There's still plenty of drama left to resolve on the mortal front. Just once, no tentacles.
Agreed. Give us one expansion where a lot of the old abandoned plotlines get resolved or continued. I honestly would love to have an expansion where we ran around addressing all the problems that were minor but have been ignored so long they are now major issues. But maybe that’s a bit too meta.
I wish I could explore each of those alternative timeline Azeroth and just see what the zones looks like. The One with the legion taking over Azeroth would be the most interesting to see then probably the Undead one, can you imagine seeing Stormwind or Ironforge but completely destroyed and overrun with undead? That or see MASSIVE fel holes in the planet similar to what Argus had like the whole Barren is just one massive giant crater.
I like one part of the whole portals-true-timeline thing that people overlook. Chromie thwarted Nozdormu's destiny, possibly throwing us off the true timeline. Blizz could have us head to a deadend as our timeline falls prey to whatever that great threat is, and then we could be the ones dashing through portals to escape a failed timeline into a new Azeroth. That'd work especially well in the future if Blizz wants to do an art-update for the old world. 🤔😅
@@ShadowWolfRising seeing how they were zombifying the Orcs and you spent most of your time fighting them, I find that difficult to see. Curious what you think will join the Alliance to balance it out.
Just my opinion but i think what they mean by the burning legion are all one in every timeline is like the illithids in DnD. They aren't exactly the same on every plain of existence but their hivemind like goal to a burning end to all life including themselves is unchanging. All burning legion in every timeline would without question move to rank within all possible burning legions in all possible timelines knowing their goal without question. The burning legion is the burning legion is the burning legion. Firey death turtles all the way down. I just really really like the legion book so don't recon it please! The description of the burning legion when he eats the demonheart is so incredible lol
Hasn't ion said directly in interviews that life binder was just an old titan the OG devs thought sounded cool, and wasn't a plan for like 20 years later lol
I'm a bit confused how the great hunger thing could've been given to Galakrond. Yogg Saron corrupted him through poisoning the waters he would drink at. Was Yogg Saron the only one able to transmit that hunger? Why did he have it and not C'thun or N'zoth
Good job man, hope your team gets dividends from Blizz for supplying them with ideas. In the end it's gonna be another cheap end like, the ancient one was behind it all from the beginning thing
I think we can pretty much safely say the whole "One legion over all realities" thing has been retconned away. I mean even back than one of the devs said that they might just retcon that away one day. So there you go.
I'm sorry and sad to say that you are wrong. No developer ever said they would retcon it away; and unfortunately the tyrant Steve Danuser is the one that said the all realities linked together like threads in a rope thing. If we want it changed, we will have to get rid of Danuser.
@@laertesindeed sorry to tell YOU but that is wrong. You can literally find the interview clip on the WOW wiki in on the demons page. He answered a question in regards to whether demons were truly gone if killed in the nether. Outright saying they may retcon it away. Among other things. The very concept of parallel realities in the string metaphor even backs that up.
@@gwell2118 You need to go educate yourself on reading comprehension.... because the "threads on a rope" claim DIRECTLY and IRREFUTABLY and UNDENIABLY disproves your false claim about alternate realities being retconned away.
@@laertesindeed Ok genius you need to literally educate YOURSELF on basic reading comprehension. I didn't say alternate realities being retconned away. I said that old statement of the legion being the same across all realities is being retconned away. I need to repeat that or are you really as much of a lost cause that I think you are?
i'm still wondering when the plot line for Salandria is going to be relevant, they brought her back in the blood elf heritage weapon quest and the children's day quest where you visit the caverns of time seem to indicate that it would be something connected to dragons or atleast something pretty big.
I still don't think we should brush off the Warlands, if you read the books. It feels like there is something there that we are missing, especially since Warlands essentially fulfil the Jailer plan to feed Azeroth souls to the Maw. I say this because the books speak of some great 'betrayals' suggesting both sides did stop the war to fight greater threats. Only to turn on each the instant that threat was gone leading to either Kalimdor or even the entire planet turned into a wasteland. But again suggesting threats like the Legion/Argus being defeated, even if we don't see Dreani, Worgan, Panderan, or the other allied races.
I'd really just like a question answered one day instead of just getting twenty more questions with every patch. I know they need to have some mystery and multiple routes for plots, but can we just get one satisfying reveal or conflict climax that isn't at the end of an expansion?
"The ancient one" could be the same one from Hrarthstone's whispers of the old gods set. That's the only name it's given in both minions it's mentioned, likely to keep it open for when they want to name it. Worth noting it's a 30/30 and it seems extremely large in the art, many times larger then the other old gods even.
The Old Gods, even while chained beneath the crust of Azeroth, led massive armies and empowered fearsome generals. The Ancient One was vanquished long ago, but it's hard to keep the minions of the Old Gods down, and with enough of its blood, you can herald the return of the Old Gods' greatest creation! That card is 7 years old, truly fascinating to think its implemented in WoW's story finally. Hearthstone is such a well designed spoiler fest for WoW :D
That is contradicted by all the in game references. What influence Elune has on Arcane magic and Light magic is mysterious.....but one thing which is consistent in every quote and every mention and every bit of contact with her confirms that she always has a connection to Team Cosmic Life. It doesn't mean she is in charge of Team Life....or even that Team Life approves of her actions, but she definitely has a connection and origin from it. I will repeat my hunch, separately from the above facts...... in that I get the feeling Elune or Team Cosmic Life was already on Azeroth "before" the Light, and "before" the Titans and "before" the Old Gods ever even arrived. I think Team Cosmic Life was already either in charge of the world soul inside.....or trying its best to influence and guide that world soul into sharing their goals.....before any other cosmic team even realized a planet azeroth existed. I think Team Cosmic Life created all the monsters and animals and sentient mortals like trolls and tauren before old gods or titans arrived. I also think that Team Cosmic Life was responsible for creating proto-drakes.......but then they lost authority when the Titans arrived and the titans did change "some few" of those protodrakes into the Aspects we know. Then Team Cosmic Life were probably the ones that interfered to turn some trolls into elves; because the Titans surely never claimed to ever have created them. The Titans only claim to have taught elves their language and introduced them to arcane magic and life magic and light magic. And by extension, when the Titans changed some protodrakes into Aspects, those Aspects frequently chose their visage form to match the look of Elves.
At 13:38 you say "stupid Shadowlands lore." While many hold such negative opinions about Shadowlands; I actually really enjoyed it thematically/aesthetically, and don't think it was as bad as everyone made out. Plus, you have to give them credit that for a lot of the development, the whole world was in a state of chaos/abnormality. My only sadness about it, is that they didn;t follow through and reveal that the Primus was the Jailer all along, because I do believe 100% that such a plot reveal was in the original plans for the expansion, based on what I read and watched on the theory, and that it didn't come through purely due to lack of time and resources. That could have been the missing patch that was cut.
Michael, I have to thank you. I haven’t played the game in ages because of several other responsibilities. I appreciate all the lore, the speculation, and keeping me up to date with the story line. I’ll always love the lore of this game, so thanks for giving me an avenue to still appreciate it.
So they are setting up that our timeline is the perfect balance between forces and that's why we have to protect it constantly. It would tip the scales in the multiverse war.
Maybe our timeline is the only one that balances the six forces long enough for mortals to truly reach free will; and free will is the only thing that can stop the outside 7th force. If protecting the existence of the balance means enough to the Titans; they would even be willing to risk their own defeat and stop people from changing the timeline in which they lose so much.
Nah, according to Xal'atath it was N'Zoth who "lost" to the god with seven heads (which seems like another name for Y'Shaarj and his pride/fear/doubt/violence/anger/despair/hatred but there may be a slim chance it means a different old god) at the same location where the Battle for K'tanth took place. Now granted, just because the Battle for K'tanth took place at the same location doesn't necessarily mean the battle is the same event where N'Zoth lost....they could have battled there because there was leftover power from the long ago battle and N'Zoth still lost.....but it may be the same event.
Gunna say it again. Archimonde is dead. That wasn't an alternate legion we fought in Draenor, it was just our Legion. They invaded because Gul'dan invited them and it was connected to our Azeroth. I never paid any mind to Alex's dumb transcending all times crap, but it's clear Blizz considers him dead.
Convincing me that the idiots who wrote SL and turned WoW into a Disney Cartoon with DF, are somehow cooking up H.B. Lovecraftian eldritch horrors in a timeline-plot that isn't a complete clusterfuck is a HARD SELL...
@@Queldonus Joke's on you because I have played it. From the pre-patch to about 3-4 months in. And I actually - since I hadn't played in years - attempted to immerse myself and read the quest text and get the story. By the time I got to the Tuskarr, I couldn't take it anymore, it was so bland and lame.
So Ulderoth... Did the element of spirit get out of control or was it Elune flipping the board? Also, each timeline represents a force: Azewrath: Disorder Azkeroth: Shadow Ulderoth: Life Azemourne: Death A.Z.E.R.O.T.H.: Order But no light timeline. What gives?
How and why would Xal’atath be a claw of yshaarj, she is clearly her own individual with her own plans and schemes. If she was a piece of Yshaarj wouldn’t she hate us and try to work against the titans instead of helping us in legion and BFA 🤷🏻♂️
Xal'atath never helped the titans, ever. She helped the player character shadow priest 'only' so she could gain more power and be able to make progress on her own goals. And it is entirely possible she could be a part of an old god or a powerful minion of an old god in the past but be willing to fight against them now. Literally, when you walk into Orgrimmar with the black blade, she sometimes gives the quote ".....We may face some of my brethren in this conflict...a prospect that delights me. Their power will be mine! They will pay for what was done to me long ago...." which is compatible with all kinds of theories. She could have been an Old God that was betrayed by the other old gods, she could have been a minion of an old god that was betrayed by her own old god. She could have been a sentient monster or a sentient mortal that delved into void magic and then was betrayed by any of the above. All kinds of theories would work.
Plot twist now that MS owns blizzard It is a Daedric Prince Incursion and Azeroth as the twisting nether and the great dark are part of the infinite of Oblivion. And nothing is powerful to stop a Daedric Prince and his armies unlike the divines in tamriel.
If I’m correct, the book mentioning five old gods was originally in the game since Vanilla. I’m not 100%, but I feel like outside of the terrible retcon via book to four, there has always been at least the four.
@@Pixi_Plz I‘ve read books like war of the ancients. There are three voices whispering to Deathwing. Not four, not five, but three. Be it as it may, i think it‘s a little bit uncreative, especially since now they‘re just saying „Oh didn‘t you know, this fifth old god is super more powerful than the others for no reason“ Yeah sure.
If the 5th Old God just presents itself as a tentacle goth mommy, then the majority of players will willingly join the Old Gods. They really need to appeal to their future willing sacrifices.
Is the Mechagon scenario “the Titans win AND manage to keep control of life on the planet” timeline? If not, it feels like it REALLY should be. You know how to flawlessly order life with 100% success? Destroy it.
so much potential for a new expension! And it wouldnt be crazy and bad like shadowlands even if it had to do with a new world, since it's connected with Azeroth still. I love it
Imagine if the 5th Old God is a ripoff of the Zerg Overmind from StarCraft, and Velen sets the Vindicaar on a collision course with the Old God. En Taro Velen!
I'm gonna go tinfoil hat and say Yrel shows up with a massive Legion of Light giving us the anti-light expansion only to find out the Naruu controlling her is actually an agent of this Ancient One bringing about a New Black Empire expac.
Not really. Galakrond appeared after the Old Gods were imprisoned and the Titan and the Titan-forged managed to bring order to Azeroth. In Uldaman: Legacy of Tyr, you can loot an Ancient Volume that hints that Galakrond's mutation might have been because he drank water contaminated by Yogg-Saron, as one part reads as it follows, "Already we are detecting reduced levels of contamination. I hope your investigation into how Yogg-Saron compromised these living waters will yield answers. In the meantime, we can be assured that the evolution of another Galakrond will not be triggered by consuming unfiltered water. Once purification is complete, an additional benefit will be found in offering the infused water to dragonkind."
One Legion across all dimensions was never realistic. Think about it, SURE, the demons have a bit of a good hand by being sort-of-unkillable... but they're also dividing themselfs across all of reality. Even if every invasion only kills a handful of demons for good during the endgame they'd still have a problem with pure attrition.
Man... I've wanted an expansion where Life is the 'bad' cosmic force. Even back in Legion, as soon as we found out about the cosmic forces, I wanted to explore a planet controlled solely by each one. I'm gonna be disappointed if Ulderoth is the only taste we get.
This only means one thing. There will be dark empire homo quests. Or fluid thing, because they are all stuffsz, but dare you to call a tentacle, dark chaotic forms of life it. The end.
ok c'tan eh K'tanth are coming and turning mechanical beings into undead self repairing creatures or stuff. in the grim dark timeline there is only war(craft) ^^
Does anyone else hate this Marvel like writing? I miss the medieval fantasy of orcs, dragons, and ancient shadowy powers that weren't so involved. Everything is so hands on and cosmic. I feel like so much has been taken away and minimized.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/n.gif)
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The Ancient One has elements of Tsathoggua. A Greater Old one, he is said to mostly sleep and slumber however if awoken he would consume whoever woke him unless you offer an acceptable tribute in your place.
Also referred to as “The Whisperer in the Darkness.”
The ancient one is a really cool HS card.
Alex Afriasabi did irreparable damage to the game's lore / story. Almost like it was intentional.
They need to tie shit up, get the world on a plateau, and start fresh with grounded storylines. Legion was awesome, a perfect climax. Then it just kinda….. continued. WOWS been going going uphill for nearly a decade and Im just exhausted. I just want to adventure in Kalimdor again.
Nothing in lore is ever "irreparable." There's simply no such thing. Y'all act like you've never read comics before.
it might have been intentional but the bigger reason is much more simple. Alex Afriasabi is unimaginably stupid. Most of the time he was just saying random things to make himself look smart.
@@Egg67538 lol.. no a reboot is not needed... that is boring ass vanilla.
Tinfoil hat moment detected
The other interesting thing about Ulderoth is that you would think that a titan-controlled planet free of corruption would be the “true timeline” that they would want to preserve, but it’s just an invading offshoot that Soridormi wants to eliminate like the rest. There’s an implication that the actual world-soul of Azeroth in that timeline is either dead or nonexistent, so there wouldn’t be the most optimal way for the Titans to gain control of the cosmos.
It could very well be a planet with plant and animal life but perhaps devoid of sentient life. A world that is both alive and populated but also a world that is basically depopulated of its people in way that the titans want to ensure their way of absolute order by removing the chaotic factors that the races may present.
@tangerino Hmmm, strange, that was not my interpretation of the Ulderoth timeline at all. I got the impression from reading the Ulderoth lore stuff that the titans only "believed" they had won. In reality, the Cosmic Team Life seemed to have greater influence there and was probably even resisting or fighting back against the titans. Some versions or factions within the Cosmic Team Life seem to not really care about intelligent small mortals at all and rather prefer to have large obedient Animal creatures and gigantic Plant mounds which assimilate anything to continue growing the mound.
@@laertesindeed There is werid lore confusion, either every timeline's Azeroth has a World Soul or only our timeline Azeroth has World Soul and so its why the Titans wanted it protected.
@@TK199999 You've presented a logical fallacy known as a false dichotomy. It is faulty reasoning and is not an accurate description of known wow lore, either. And beyond that.....your false dichotomy doesn't even approach the real question asked by the original commenter; since there is an Aman'thul in the Ulderoth universe and there is an Aman'thul in the Azeroth universe. Thus the original commenter points to the real question...... why is the Aman'thul in our universe preserving this chain of events which have included so much suffering for himself if there was the possibility of preserving a victory of titan forces way back at the moment of their arrival? Because there is undeniably and irrefutably an Aman'thul in that universe which is preserving that imperfect victory also. And there was a world soul inside of Azeroth for the total old god victory time rift as well....where there "was" an Aman'thul that got defeated.
You assume they thought of the implications of an ulderorth timeline past...."wouldn't it be cool if..."
Bellular this book about five old gods says five original old gods were IMPRISONED. That means two unknown ones as Y'Shaarj wasn't imprisoned and g'huun was made later.
Shortly: We have found three of the five originally imprisoned old gods C'thun, Yogg Saron and N'zoth.
Edit:
"The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the five evil gods far beneath the surface of the world."
I don't think Y'Shaarj is included in these five, for he was already torn asunder at this time. And though his heart was stowed away, he himself was not chained far beneath the surface of the world.
All though G'huun wasnt a old god after all.. he is a blood god.. he did corruption yes but was just a blood god 😅
@@Clarketh He is basically a titans creation based on the pattern of a old god. So yeah he is more an old good as everything else but how I said, a Titans Creation and not counting for the ordering of azeroths claims. I also would say that they counting Y'shaarj in, because of his splattered Bodyparts Ra and his Mogu take care off after Amanthul playing Dr Pimple Popper.
@@Clarketh I would call g'huun an honourable mention as he as an experiment on old god essence went rouge, were imprisoned in a titan facility, and had command over a C'thraxxi warbringer and weird tentacles. 😊
It’s cute that you guys take the lore so seriously when Blizz could care less about it. They just throw shit on the wall and see what sticks.
@@a1pha_star Let people enjoy things.
Tbh all i need is some Aluneth lore i mean did blizzard writers forgot that there is an arcane beast inside of that staff is just like Xala'taht.
literally the best weapon they ever created there, more friendly and funny than a lot of players :)
Of course they forgot about Aluneth, the same way they forgot about Sargeras's Sword.
@@RichWales true i always tmog with It when i use my mage so that i can have It tall to me when i run out of mana
Same, as a warlock I always mog my offhand into Thal’kiel, he’s not so friendly tho lol
@@aster4jadenwhat sword?
The Hunger seems to tie in pretty nicely with the reality-chomping Devourers from Shadowlands.
Sure, make things even more convoluted. At this point you need a bloody flow chart to even know what's going on anymore.
@7:35
Not sure if you mentioned this, but the mobs in the area around Zal'kir also seem to be 'mutated' trolls and tauren... IE the "original" races of Azeroth that we know would've been around during the original ordering of Azeroth.
You and Matt help a lot to keep this game interesting. You make a lot of jokes about it, but Blizzard SHOULD write you both a fat check... and the rights to use Tuskarr in The Pale Beyond lol
One more thing that we can glean from the time rifts is the soft confirmation that Sargeras's sword stuck in Silithus may indeed be Gorribal. The trinket we can get from the Ulderoth timeline directly namedrops Seschenal, the staff that Eonar wields according to the old RPG lore, which also named the half of Gorschalach that Sargeras found and reforged as Gorribal.
The name K'thanth seems heavily inspired in the god Ghatanothoa from HP Lovecraft's Out of the Aeons story. There that god is misremembered through the ages by several names. One of its powers is to petrify those who look at it and even imagining a close aproximation of its figure can kill.
4:30 Nah Xala'tath was the 6th old god, with her being consumed long before the titans came to Azeroth
A note on the wording from Xal'atath, she says "Battle FOR K'tanth". Generally, when a battle is fought at a location, it is called "battle of". By using "for", it implies K'tanth is not just the location of the battle, but the price that was fought over. Now, Xal'atath also mention the place of the battle is a place of power, implying that "battle FOR K'tanth" simply means this specific location is the "price" of the battle. They fought to gain control of this place of power. As such, K'tanth is not a person, but also not necessarily the name of the zone. It could be like the Well of Eternity, like a specific thing that happened to be at that place, but not just an object you could move - otherwise it wouldn't be described as a PLACE of power.
I think the most interesting thing here is that, despite N'Zoth losing the battle for K'tanth, it worked in his favour. Let's think about the one big undesirable thing that happened to Y'Shaarj - he was killed by the Titans. Now, why him? Well, it is well known that he was the strongest of the Old Gods. Kind of curious that the strongest of the Old Gods also happened to, prior to this, have won the battle for this mysterious place of power. Well, what if this place of power is really the reason Y'Shaarj was more powerful than the other Old Gods? And it worked in N'Zoth favour because had he won, he would have been the one killed by the Titans. But what have recently happened? The titans have all been locked away. In other words, it might be the right time to take control of the place of power. Since it is hinted that N'Zoth is not fully defeated, and we also do not know what the deal with Xal'atath is, I believe the power of K'tanth will soon be harvested.
This place of power could be some kind of semi-alive, embodiment of hunger. Not an actual entity like a person or Old God, but more than just a magical power source. This would explain the references to hunger. It could also be the remains of a dead, much more powerful, old god. Something so powerful, that the place of its death is now a place of power, a place of hunger.
It's Garithos. Garithos is coming. It wasn't a coincidence he was completely missing from Shadowlands. His disgust of Blood Elves is so great that he's too angry to die. Even the mere idea that Azeroth, in any time line, harbored anything remotely elf-like is enough to have him move towards it.
Jokes withstanding alternate time lines are kind of dumb, especially with how badly handled WOD was.
I totally agree I loathed the alt timeline story in WoD
No joke, I wouldn’t even be mad if that actually happened lmao
Lord* Garithos you peasant.
He managed to get one of those space ship and has travelled to the future where he became Emperor of Mankind known as psykers.
It's honestly hilarious how a whole new Horde faction was created entirely because one guy happened to be extremely racist.
@@roundninja Hilarious, but Accurate.
Filthy Humans.
I will hear nothing against Azmurloth!!
Bellular is the Alex Jones of Azeroth.
Best comment I’ve seen this week.
The Alex Jones of Azeroth that tries to promote his own stuff that the audience are on the fence of trying out
the bombing of theramore never happened, that gnome was a crisis actor.
Except Bellular tries to base his crazy ideas on things that might actually be real….
@@Queldonussavage
Can we have ONE expansion that involves intrigue and internal strife amongst mortals; without having any cosmic, dragon, magic nonsense? A straight up mystery that has no old god crap involved. There's still plenty of drama left to resolve on the mortal front. Just once, no tentacles.
It would have been BFA but yeah somehow they wanted to add in the extra stuff
Agreed. Give us one expansion where a lot of the old abandoned plotlines get resolved or continued.
I honestly would love to have an expansion where we ran around addressing all the problems that were minor but have been ignored so long they are now major issues. But maybe that’s a bit too meta.
@@Queldonus Like which ones?
I actually believe Zovaal line of what is yet to come is the most important lore line we have ever had but still lame lol
I wish I could explore each of those alternative timeline Azeroth and just see what the zones looks like.
The One with the legion taking over Azeroth would be the most interesting to see then probably the Undead one, can you imagine seeing Stormwind or Ironforge but completely destroyed and overrun with undead? That or see MASSIVE fel holes in the planet similar to what Argus had like the whole Barren is just one massive giant crater.
I like one part of the whole portals-true-timeline thing that people overlook. Chromie thwarted Nozdormu's destiny, possibly throwing us off the true timeline. Blizz could have us head to a deadend as our timeline falls prey to whatever that great threat is, and then we could be the ones dashing through portals to escape a failed timeline into a new Azeroth.
That'd work especially well in the future if Blizz wants to do an art-update for the old world. 🤔😅
I hope any of this stuff actually comes to fruition. Blizzard loves to drop this little stuff everywhere and does nothing with most of it.
Remember the Botani that slipped into Azeroth?
Pepperridge Farm remembers.
I do, I want them to join the Horde.
@@ShadowWolfRising seeing how they were zombifying the Orcs and you spent most of your time fighting them, I find that difficult to see. Curious what you think will join the Alliance to balance it out.
And the Saberon, and the Goren.
Hey, maybe the Botani will cause Orgrimmar to actually be a habitable place, instead of a dry, arid wasteland.
Just my opinion but i think what they mean by the burning legion are all one in every timeline is like the illithids in DnD. They aren't exactly the same on every plain of existence but their hivemind like goal to a burning end to all life including themselves is unchanging. All burning legion in every timeline would without question move to rank within all possible burning legions in all possible timelines knowing their goal without question. The burning legion is the burning legion is the burning legion. Firey death turtles all the way down.
I just really really like the legion book so don't recon it please! The description of the burning legion when he eats the demonheart is so incredible lol
Hasn't ion said directly in interviews that life binder was just an old titan the OG devs thought sounded cool, and wasn't a plan for like 20 years later lol
The Ancient One could very well be the threat that Zo'vall was so worried about, that he even turned on everyone to stop.
I'm a bit confused how the great hunger thing could've been given to Galakrond. Yogg Saron corrupted him through poisoning the waters he would drink at. Was Yogg Saron the only one able to transmit that hunger? Why did he have it and not C'thun or N'zoth
Good job man, hope your team gets dividends from Blizz for supplying them with ideas. In the end it's gonna be another cheap end like, the ancient one was behind it all from the beginning thing
The dark lord blizzard doesn't share power
I’m not worried about C’Tanth, it’s C’Leventh that we need to be prepared for.
Nice try at a pun... but the spelling is K'tanth, lol.
I think we can pretty much safely say the whole "One legion over all realities" thing has been retconned away. I mean even back than one of the devs said that they might just retcon that away one day. So there you go.
I'm sorry and sad to say that you are wrong. No developer ever said they would retcon it away; and unfortunately the tyrant Steve Danuser is the one that said the all realities linked together like threads in a rope thing. If we want it changed, we will have to get rid of Danuser.
@@laertesindeed sorry to tell YOU but that is wrong. You can literally find the interview clip on the WOW wiki in on the demons page. He answered a question in regards to whether demons were truly gone if killed in the nether. Outright saying they may retcon it away. Among other things. The very concept of parallel realities in the string metaphor even backs that up.
@@gwell2118 You need to go educate yourself on reading comprehension.... because the "threads on a rope" claim DIRECTLY and IRREFUTABLY and UNDENIABLY disproves your false claim about alternate realities being retconned away.
@@laertesindeed Ok genius you need to literally educate YOURSELF on basic reading comprehension. I didn't say alternate realities being retconned away. I said that old statement of the legion being the same across all realities is being retconned away. I need to repeat that or are you really as much of a lost cause that I think you are?
i'm still wondering when the plot line for Salandria is going to be relevant, they brought her back in the blood elf heritage weapon quest and the children's day quest where you visit the caverns of time seem to indicate that it would be something connected to dragons or atleast something pretty big.
Me too but since she's a paladin, the only paladin plot point in DF is the reforging of Tyr, if she doesn't turn up there it might be a while :(
what you described was that diagram of the six cosmic forces Light/Shadow Life/Death Order/Disorder
Either a hidden 7th cosmic forces or every force wanting to stop Azeroth of awakening is the thing that is being hinted of what is to come
I still don't think we should brush off the Warlands, if you read the books. It feels like there is something there that we are missing, especially since Warlands essentially fulfil the Jailer plan to feed Azeroth souls to the Maw. I say this because the books speak of some great 'betrayals' suggesting both sides did stop the war to fight greater threats. Only to turn on each the instant that threat was gone leading to either Kalimdor or even the entire planet turned into a wasteland. But again suggesting threats like the Legion/Argus being defeated, even if we don't see Dreani, Worgan, Panderan, or the other allied races.
I want an expansion to end with us losing for once
bfa and shadowlands not enough for you?
@@alexclaton We only lost in 9.1
I'd really just like a question answered one day instead of just getting twenty more questions with every patch. I know they need to have some mystery and multiple routes for plots, but can we just get one satisfying reveal or conflict climax that isn't at the end of an expansion?
According to the last expansions. All titans of all realms are ROBOTS made by other robots. And that's CANON. Let that sink in.
The hungering essence in Galakrond is a chunk of Subject One and it is now attached to Wei Shi Lindon's arm.
k'tanth makes me think of Kadath. Another Lovecraft reference in old god stuff would make sense.
The Ancient one is referenced in Hearthstone and is a card it’s the old gods greatest minion…that’s all
"The ancient one" could be the same one from Hrarthstone's whispers of the old gods set. That's the only name it's given in both minions it's mentioned, likely to keep it open for when they want to name it.
Worth noting it's a 30/30 and it seems extremely large in the art, many times larger then the other old gods even.
The Old Gods, even while chained beneath the crust of Azeroth, led massive armies and empowered fearsome generals. The Ancient One was vanquished long ago, but it's hard to keep the minions of the Old Gods down, and with enough of its blood, you can herald the return of the Old Gods' greatest creation!
That card is 7 years old, truly fascinating to think its implemented in WoW's story finally. Hearthstone is such a well designed spoiler fest for WoW :D
Interesting how each of the cosmic forces is given its own timeline... Except for light
where did u fidn that ulderoth questline or how do u get to all these places u had shown in the vid
I absolutely hate that there are multiple timelines. It cheapens everything.
What if it was found that the "Fifth Old God" also went by Elune?
That would turn things upside down.
That is contradicted by all the in game references. What influence Elune has on Arcane magic and Light magic is mysterious.....but one thing which is consistent in every quote and every mention and every bit of contact with her confirms that she always has a connection to Team Cosmic Life. It doesn't mean she is in charge of Team Life....or even that Team Life approves of her actions, but she definitely has a connection and origin from it.
I will repeat my hunch, separately from the above facts...... in that I get the feeling Elune or Team Cosmic Life was already on Azeroth "before" the Light, and "before" the Titans and "before" the Old Gods ever even arrived. I think Team Cosmic Life was already either in charge of the world soul inside.....or trying its best to influence and guide that world soul into sharing their goals.....before any other cosmic team even realized a planet azeroth existed. I think Team Cosmic Life created all the monsters and animals and sentient mortals like trolls and tauren before old gods or titans arrived. I also think that Team Cosmic Life was responsible for creating proto-drakes.......but then they lost authority when the Titans arrived and the titans did change "some few" of those protodrakes into the Aspects we know. Then Team Cosmic Life were probably the ones that interfered to turn some trolls into elves; because the Titans surely never claimed to ever have created them. The Titans only claim to have taught elves their language and introduced them to arcane magic and life magic and light magic. And by extension, when the Titans changed some protodrakes into Aspects, those Aspects frequently chose their visage form to match the look of Elves.
At 13:38 you say "stupid Shadowlands lore." While many hold such negative opinions about Shadowlands; I actually really enjoyed it thematically/aesthetically, and don't think it was as bad as everyone made out. Plus, you have to give them credit that for a lot of the development, the whole world was in a state of chaos/abnormality. My only sadness about it, is that they didn;t follow through and reveal that the Primus was the Jailer all along, because I do believe 100% that such a plot reveal was in the original plans for the expansion, based on what I read and watched on the theory, and that it didn't come through purely due to lack of time and resources. That could have been the missing patch that was cut.
Michael, I have to thank you. I haven’t played the game in ages because of several other responsibilities. I appreciate all the lore, the speculation, and keeping me up to date with the story line. I’ll always love the lore of this game, so thanks for giving me an avenue to still appreciate it.
The Jailer: My master plan requires the Champions of Azeroth to defeat Argus.
The Player: I'm gonna take a break from WOW.
The Jailer: FUCK.
Happy to see more of Pyromancer's theories are starting to... bloom ^~^
Endless Hunger is a spell Deathwing used on Krasus
So they are setting up that our timeline is the perfect balance between forces and that's why we have to protect it constantly. It would tip the scales in the multiverse war.
Maybe our timeline is the only one that balances the six forces long enough for mortals to truly reach free will; and free will is the only thing that can stop the outside 7th force. If protecting the existence of the balance means enough to the Titans; they would even be willing to risk their own defeat and stop people from changing the timeline in which they lose so much.
What if nzoth was the one who beat the ancient one? And he is the only one that can save us? 😮
Nah, according to Xal'atath it was N'Zoth who "lost" to the god with seven heads (which seems like another name for Y'Shaarj and his pride/fear/doubt/violence/anger/despair/hatred but there may be a slim chance it means a different old god) at the same location where the Battle for K'tanth took place. Now granted, just because the Battle for K'tanth took place at the same location doesn't necessarily mean the battle is the same event where N'Zoth lost....they could have battled there because there was leftover power from the long ago battle and N'Zoth still lost.....but it may be the same event.
The 🅱ancient one is in Hearthstone, if you want a sneak peak.
Gunna say it again. Archimonde is dead. That wasn't an alternate legion we fought in Draenor, it was just our Legion. They invaded because Gul'dan invited them and it was connected to our Azeroth. I never paid any mind to Alex's dumb transcending all times crap, but it's clear Blizz considers him dead.
Did they show a timeline where the Light won?
im loving these four alt endings , are we going to try and change these endings or just know what things could happen and how we may prevent it.
Huh I was wondering why wasn't there a timeline of Azeroth dominated by the Light forces, what would that look like?
It would be very bright I guess
Convincing me that the idiots who wrote SL and turned WoW into a Disney Cartoon with DF, are somehow cooking up H.B. Lovecraftian eldritch horrors in a timeline-plot that isn't a complete clusterfuck is a HARD SELL...
Tell me you haven’t played DF without telling me you haven’t played DF.
@@Queldonus Joke's on you because I have played it. From the pre-patch to about 3-4 months in. And I actually - since I hadn't played in years - attempted to immerse myself and read the quest text and get the story. By the time I got to the Tuskarr, I couldn't take it anymore, it was so bland and lame.
blizzturd fans have such low standards they praise df... honestly the lore of wow is in such a piss poor state they have to retcon the retcons...
I hope the corrupted ashbringer goes to the ebon blade and DK’s and pallys get some legendary quest to get it for TMog. 🙏
Would be cool if it was a revamped version of it just like the new Gorehowl added in Dawn of the Infinite
@@slugfest513 ohhh very nice
So Ulderoth... Did the element of spirit get out of control or was it Elune flipping the board? Also, each timeline represents a force:
Azewrath: Disorder
Azkeroth: Shadow
Ulderoth: Life
Azemourne: Death
A.Z.E.R.O.T.H.: Order
But no light timeline. What gives?
Azeroth, Metrion, Zinthos!
Modern WoW lore is so flimsy with retcons, world-building, and terrible storytelling that it makes it impossible to care about the world.
How and why would Xal’atath be a claw of yshaarj, she is clearly her own individual with her own plans and schemes. If she was a piece of Yshaarj wouldn’t she hate us and try to work against the titans instead of helping us in legion and BFA 🤷🏻♂️
Xal'atath never helped the titans, ever. She helped the player character shadow priest 'only' so she could gain more power and be able to make progress on her own goals. And it is entirely possible she could be a part of an old god or a powerful minion of an old god in the past but be willing to fight against them now. Literally, when you walk into Orgrimmar with the black blade, she sometimes gives the quote ".....We may face some of my brethren in this conflict...a prospect that delights me. Their power will be mine! They will pay for what was done to me long ago...." which is compatible with all kinds of theories. She could have been an Old God that was betrayed by the other old gods, she could have been a minion of an old god that was betrayed by her own old god. She could have been a sentient monster or a sentient mortal that delved into void magic and then was betrayed by any of the above. All kinds of theories would work.
Plot twist now that MS owns blizzard
It is a Daedric Prince Incursion and Azeroth as the twisting nether and the great dark are part of the infinite of Oblivion.
And nothing is powerful to stop a Daedric Prince and his armies unlike the divines in tamriel.
Bro there were three Old Gods to begin with and now it seems Blizzard be adding more to the bunch villy nilly
If I’m correct, the book mentioning five old gods was originally in the game since Vanilla. I’m not 100%, but I feel like outside of the terrible retcon via book to four, there has always been at least the four.
@@Pixi_Plz I‘ve read books like war of the ancients. There are three voices whispering to Deathwing. Not four, not five, but three.
Be it as it may, i think it‘s a little bit uncreative, especially since now they‘re just saying „Oh didn‘t you know, this fifth old god is super more powerful than the others for no reason“
Yeah sure.
I killed that Zal'Kir guy right when the patch came out, got a cool original designed staff and I thought nothing of it whoops
If the 5th Old God just presents itself as a tentacle goth mommy, then the majority of players will willingly join the Old Gods. They really need to appeal to their future willing sacrifices.
Let's fast forward to "the end" I think
DO NOT DISRESPECT AZMERLOTH, Murlocs own so many timelines for a reason >:(
The Bancient One!
Is the Mechagon scenario “the Titans win AND manage to keep control of life on the planet” timeline? If not, it feels like it REALLY should be. You know how to flawlessly order life with 100% success? Destroy it.
so much potential for a new expension! And it wouldnt be crazy and bad like shadowlands even if it had to do with a new world, since it's connected with Azeroth still. I love it
What about a timeline about Asmonroth?
The Void welcomes all
It's not a cult
Isn't there a heartstone card called "blood of the ancient one" that becomes "the ancient one" ? Looks kinda lovecraftian if you ask me
Imagine how much better this would have been if they didn't retcon everything every expansion every time
Never forget, this is all part of the jailer's plan
dark heart…what happened to the heart of yasharaj or however you spell it after garrosh nommed them
Imagine if the 5th Old God is a ripoff of the Zerg Overmind from StarCraft, and Velen sets the Vindicaar on a collision course with the Old God. En Taro Velen!
This would be funny, ridiculous, amazing and hilarious at the same time. The X-Pac after that we could have solarite
Will the Tablet of Ryun'eh _ever_ return?
doesnt the scourge winning against us mean there would be an anima drought as no one is dying and going to shadowlands because theyre all undead?
Well not exactly, since there are other worlds to which the shadowlands can get their anima from. Not all of the Anima came from Azeroth
Oh yeah thats correct @@BeyondDaX
I'm gonna go tinfoil hat and say Yrel shows up with a massive Legion of Light giving us the anti-light expansion only to find out the Naruu controlling her is actually an agent of this Ancient One bringing about a New Black Empire expac.
my guess is, what's out there is Med'An gone evil lol
Is K'tanth "The End" from Sonic Frontiers?
Blizzard is training people for maintenance mode. Get used to rehashed scaled revisits.
There is an ancient one in heathstone ...
What if the Ancient One is Galakron? Maybe he was never defeated?
Not really. Galakrond appeared after the Old Gods were imprisoned and the Titan and the Titan-forged managed to bring order to Azeroth.
In Uldaman: Legacy of Tyr, you can loot an Ancient Volume that hints that Galakrond's mutation might have been because he drank water contaminated by Yogg-Saron, as one part reads as it follows, "Already we are detecting reduced levels of contamination. I hope your investigation into how Yogg-Saron compromised these living waters will yield answers. In the meantime, we can be assured that the evolution of another Galakrond will not be triggered by consuming unfiltered water. Once purification is complete, an additional benefit will be found in offering the infused water to dragonkind."
One Legion across all dimensions was never realistic. Think about it, SURE, the demons have a bit of a good hand by being sort-of-unkillable... but they're also dividing themselfs across all of reality. Even if every invasion only kills a handful of demons for good during the endgame they'd still have a problem with pure attrition.
Nothing is irreparably damaged and can be fixed with a little intelligence and imagination!
Man... I've wanted an expansion where Life is the 'bad' cosmic force. Even back in Legion, as soon as we found out about the cosmic forces, I wanted to explore a planet controlled solely by each one.
I'm gonna be disappointed if Ulderoth is the only taste we get.
This idea with multyuniverse is amazing lore...
Every expansion, at least since WoD, has something called Maw... just ignore it, it can mean anything and nothing
This only means one thing. There will be dark empire homo quests. Or fluid thing, because they are all stuffsz, but dare you to call a tentacle, dark chaotic forms of life it. The end.
Wait what, Malfurion is dead??? Wtf is blizzard doing, giving plot armor to Sylvanas but killing off major characters for fun
ok c'tan eh K'tanth are coming and turning mechanical beings into undead self repairing creatures or stuff. in the grim dark timeline there is only war(craft) ^^
Shu'halo ...not Shoehallow
yeah... I opt out in WoW lore as well. rip blizzard, may dreamhaven resurrect your glory,
Does anyone else hate this Marvel like writing? I miss the medieval fantasy of orcs, dragons, and ancient shadowy powers that weren't so involved. Everything is so hands on and cosmic. I feel like so much has been taken away and minimized.
That time line doesn’t contradict the one legion idea. Sargeras could have conquered it before legion….
Would this mean that Sargeras' actual Crusade is to conquer all timelines?