Thank you for this. I just got a 92 XJ and you’re a real awesome resource for info! This was an awesome explanation broken down with great visuals and simple language!
Nicely explained principals of straight-axle CAs relative to lifting vehicles & results of each option for control arms . Anyone lifting a straight axle truck or Jeep can benefit from watching this basic info properly explained!
Ahoy mate. In 10 minutes, you explained what it took me a while to decipher. It's all math. Essentially geometry and at its core, angles. Control Arms need to be as horizontal with the frame or unibody to achieve best ride and suspension use. You summed up what many wheelers miss when lifting any vehicle. Your video will save many budget offroaders assembling DIY lift kits many headaches and backache. Thanks, 👍
Great video at explaining the basic geometry. I have shared it on the main clubs I am in. You have more patience than I do. You should make some more getting more involved and going a bit more advanced. Thanks again.
+brendeniandye Thanks! I've actually been trying to figure out a way to build a model and revisit this topic in order to get more in depth with arm length, link design, and layout. If I can figure out a way, I'll definitely post a video!
Excellent. This is one of those things that you know but is hard to explain; and you just did it. Just listened to jeeptalkshow podcast with you. Great videos sir. Jeep on. Also followed on Instagram. 👌🏼 excited to see where you take your jeep.
Another informative presentation with simple diagrams to successfully depict the geometry of an XJ's suspension! One detail I'd like to mention: long arms can diminish the break over angle by a small amount - another reason to opt for the "short arm" solution for moderate lifts of 2" - 3". However, If I had the choice, I'd go with the expense of a long arm solution for a 4" lift to.
Yea man, I agree with all the previous comments, I wasn't expecting as much when i started the video but you explained eveything flawlessly and it was easy understanding . good job man, seem's like you're in your element !
Wow Kid . Schooled us. Just got an 03 Rub with 21,000 miles and short arms , Long arm goes on this week , thanks for helping me understand the concept ..eases my mind , The Jeep currently handles terribly . Bushings sat and dried .
Well done. The only other time I have seen an explanation between the three different set-up as good as that was on the TV Show Extreme 4x4.... Keep up the great work, you're turning out some good content! -Josh B. (The XJ Talk Show)
Well played and executed. Thanks for being able to explain to some of my 4x4 buddies why my articulation is so much better. I have a long arm kit. Dig the hat. I just subscribed.
Nice video. Very helpful in my decision between drop brackets and long arm. Gonna go for the drop brackets for the time being then will upgrade to long arm kit later. Thanks!
Great Video ! I have a question though.. I'm looking to get a long arm 5.5'' kit from rubicon express with 35'' tires.. Does a long arm kit ride well on the highway?? My jeep see's a lot of highway use because I work in the pipeline industry, however I am off-roading everyday to get to where the work is going on ''NOT ROCK CRAWLING, JUST HEAVY TRAIL RIDING..
Great video man! I just have one question that I'm still struggling with. I have a 2015 wrangler unlimited rubi. I am looking to do a 3" suspension lift to house 35" x 12.5" tires. Would you reccomend a short arm or long arm? price isn't really an option as i don't mind paying a little more for the right product. I will be changing my bumpers to high clearance bumpers and also changing the fenders as well. All information is greatly appreciated. Another thing i should mention is i will not be doing any rock crawling and my vehicle will be used as an every day driver. I will on the other hand be doing some off roading on local off road trails in southern California. Thanks again for your advice.
+Arthur Garibyan Thank you very much! Long arms will ride the smoothest because of the decreased control arm angle. With three inches of lift short arms won't ride too badly, but if money isn't a concern, I'd go with the long arms. From personal experience, the first lift I did on my XJ was 3.5 in with stock control arms. I then went to 4.5 with drop brackets and the jeep rode much better at the higher lift height with a lower control arm angle. I'm currently saving for long arms and wish I had done that from the start. JKs have longer control arms stock than XJs, so again, your ride shouldn't be uncomfortable with short arms as long as you get quality shocks and springs, but long arms offer the best possible ride, especially if you ever plan on going taller in the future.
This vid deserves a thumbs up. Do you think a bracket is necessary with a 2.5in coil lift? I'm not mechanically inclined but was told it improves caster angle (whatever that is). Can you touch on caster a bit and what it does in terms of ride quality?
Blue Stacks thank you for the compliment! with a 2.5 in lift, i wouldn't use drop brackets. most drop brackets that I've seen drop the control arms about 4-5 inches. with a 2.5 in lift, this will put the control arms at a negative angle and you will just be giving up ground clearance. I wouldn't worry about caster angle too much with 2.5 in of lift, but you could get adjustable control arms and adjust caster that way. Caster angle can effect things like steering. Positive caster angle (front end of the axle higher than the rear) will make the tires tend to want to track straight but too much can make it harder to turn the steering wheel, giving a heavy steering feel. Negative caster angle (front of the axle is lower than the rear) does the opposite. It can make the wheels not want to track straight and cause some wandering and strange steering quirks, especially when hitting bumps.
How about adding the long arm to your last display. Long arm angle actually is about same angle as drop brackets but don't go all the way to cross member. So less to hang up on rocks. Plus you won't drop on a long arm and bend it on a trail
Does this cover upper control arms too or just lower? Meaning, seems like shops sell them separately but I assume lift kits come with both as they would need to match, does that make sense?
most aftermarket control arms are adjustable so you can make them longer or shorter to re center the wheel in the wheel well. Or, if you want to get all scientific about it, you can measure the current vertical and horizontal distance from your body side control arm mounts to your axle side control arm mounts with your current ride height and control arm length. Then add the amount of lift you want to your vertical distance, keep your horizontal distance the same and get your new control arm length. (a^2)+(b^2)=(c^2) where a=vertical distance, b=horizontal distance, and c=control arm length.
Long-arms hang low, too. You're more likely to get hung up towards the center of your vehicle than you are with drop brackets. Also, the larger your tires, the less likely you are to get hung up on drop brackets.
Keep in mind also , most guys running long arms are also running 38 , 40 & 44 inch tires as well . So there ground clearance is already ridiculously high
Drop brackets hand way too low and they are more likely to hit stuff than long arms. Drop brackets are a temporary solution but the ultimate solution is long arms.
Great explanation ! I see a Leadership CEO position in your future with those presentation skills. I was thinking of going with a 2.5 inch lift or a 4 inch lift on my 2015 jk unlimited wrangler, maybe tereflex, but I'm open to suggestions since you seem to know your shit. Would you suggest long arm kit or short arm kit for that amount of lift with 35 inch tires ? "I would want the best, since I plan on keeping my Jeep for awhile and am afraid of getting a "flighty feeling" if I go long arms P.s I can tell you're right handed by the wear under your baseball cap haha.
Thanks! If you know of any of those positions open, hit me up ;) Teraflex makes great parts and wouldn't hesitate to buy any of their products. Long arms will give you the best performance in terms of suspension travel and ride quality. For addressing the flighty feeling, proper steering geometry and maintenance will go a long way in combating it. you will want your drag link to be parallel to the track bar in order to minimize bump steer and the less angle of the drag link, the less of a potential for a laggy steering feel. Properly inflated tires and good swaybar links with quick disconnects will give you stability on road and you can disconnect them when you need it. Very astute observation on the hat!
Hi you are very informative and precise! I have a random question, when you see serious rwd pre runner baja trucks get air, the hole rear end drops down and is attached by a huge arm near the middle? is this the same idea?
Most of the Trophy Trucks will use a trailing arm triangulated 4 link setup. The angle of the control arms helps control the side to side motion of the axle and eliminate the need for a track bar. Some run a 3 link trailing arm setup with a wishbone at the top which is similar except that the upper control arms are connected together. It may look like there is only one arm, but what you are seeing is probably one of the trailing arms.
I got a Dodge Ram 2500 2nd gen I had a 2.5 inch leveling kit for past 2yrs truck rode like crap.. Turns out my control arms were causing the rough ride and stock shocks. So I ordered lifted shocks and longer control arms.. My guess is anything over 3-4 inches you would need long arms but small lift the change isn't that drastic
Have you installed them yet? I have had a few questions about specific vehicles with X lift and arm lengths so anyone that can share their experience with different vehicle and lift/ arm combos would probably help someone out.
Wow awesome video! I wanted to ask you I have a question I have been thinking of building a custom lift kit. I currently have pro comp shocks that are for a 4 in lift and I have 2 in coil spacers on my stock coil springs. I saw a guy the other day and he had a 3.5 lift kit with 2in spacers and said drive quality was good now I don't know how true that was but I was thinking of kind of doing the same thing but instead doing a control arm bracket as well as caster and Pinon angle brackets to accommodate for the extra 2in spacers and then also getting a better drive shaft to accommodate as well later on. Do you think that would work? the only reason is because I'm trying to find the cheapest most effective way without making something else more expensive break to my jeep jk unlimited. I am really trying lift my vehicle 5-6in I know I'm crazy but I just really like that look and I'll be honest I'm that guy that is a mall Crawler haha so clearance is not important to me I just don't want to break anything with doing a custom lift kit and body spacers look weird to me so that's not an option for me haha
I'm adding a rough country leveling kit to my 2009 gmc sierra 4x4. The leveling kit is 2.5 inch in the front and 2 inch in the back. Should I keep my stock upper and lower control arms ? Or should I get new one's and if so what should I get for a 2009 gmc sierra 4x4? Thanks
Hey man i just installed a 4 inch it came with lower front control arms but also came with drop brackets, but i noticed it rides like crap an makes nasty noises goin over bumps, so my question is should i just remove the drop brackets and shift my axle forward front control arms their not much longer maybe a inch tops
great job bro. Just one question, doesn't all this also affect the length of your driveshaft? So say, lifted jeep with stock control arms bring your vehicle up and your axle back a little just like you explained. Wouldn't that mean your driveshaft is also moving back? So wouldn't you need a shorter driveshaft? On the contrary, lifted jeep with long control arms, wouldn't you need a longer driveshaft since you're extending that angle?
Christian Gutierrez Great question and yes you're right. whenever the axle moves up, down, forwards, or backwards, the driveshaft also changes length. The front drive shaft in an XJ is two pieces allowing it to lengthen and compress as the suspension cycles. This does have its limitations, though and if you lift your jeep really high you might need to get a new driveshaft. The rear driveshaft in a XJ uses a slip yoke and the shaft itself remains the same length. a common modification with lifted XJs is a slip yoke eliminator which eliminates the slip yoke and uses a stock XJ front driveshaft in place of the stock rear driveshaft. This modification generally is done to eliminate driveline vibrations. Hopefully this answered your question, but I know I got a little bit off topic.
Admiral, there's a lawyer type dude in Mesa, AZ that talks about a lot of legal issues, including vehicle citations, here on the tube. Do you follow his work?
Hi...jeep noob here. Planning to add 3" lift w/shocks, possibly run a smaller wheel size (currently have 17") maybe going down to 15" w/35s tires. I'm worried about my caster angle. Would long arms help with the caster angle? Do I need to get all new short upper and long lower control arms?
You will not run into any serious caster angles with a 3 inch lift. I was on stock control arms with 3.5 and had no ill effects but if you are concerned, adjustable control arms can help correct caster angle
Depending on the way your rear control arms are set up, there may be a change. However, with such a small difference in lift height, I wouldn't foresee any issues, especially if you didn't have any problems at stock height or 4".
I will say this 2nd gen Ram 2500 u will have to do upgrades to suspension if ur coils are not compressed/worn out with anything over 2.5 inches.. I have a 3rd gen as well i did 2.5 inch leveling kit I didn't have to change anything.. My advice to ppl that what lift but really don't go off road and basically use truck on road or for work.. Just get a leveling kit and add a body lift if you really want bigger tires/nice rims.. If your off-roading, rock climbing, muddiin personally I believe you need over 4 inches of lift and yes go with long arms.. But I had a different view/ purpose. Mine was I use it for work I plow snow and drive on beach. My plow weight would drop my tie rods etc onto my sfa. So I looked into timbrens my view overpriced and don't work that well it still dropped my front end on my other trucks.. So I looked into lift kits and 3 inch kits were a lot for trucks that would get abused by employees etc. so I went with leveling kits and some nicer tires on the stock rims but had I done it again I would have gotten a 2 inch instead of a 2.5.. These are my views/ opinions I want to start making videos etc but just don't know how to go about it and or really have the Time
Impressive presentation. a Q: if i want to install 35 inch tires with Coil Spring Lift Kits, would you still recommend using control arm drop brackets for more comfy ride??
It depends on how much lift you are going to have on your jeep and what your ultimate goal is. I have a 4.5in lift and drop brackets ride really well. I'm Saving up for long arms to get more down travel since I'm planning on running 35s on my 4.5 in lift. Long arms will have more travel, but I'm not at all disappointed in my drop brackets. I paid $100 for them and I think they're worth it.
alghamdis123 I need a little more information about your application in order to give you the proper information. what kind of jeep are you planning on running this combination on? If it is an XJ,here is a link to a really good forum thread about Low COG XJs (small lift on big tires) that I think could help you out. www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/low-cog-suspension-setup-tricks-tips-revised-9-24-12-a-32980/ I can send you a lot more links and info about that setup if you would like to message me over facebook. facebook.com/pages/Admiral-Off-Road/1730912723801407?ref=bookmarks If it is for a different application, the amount of lift will change the control arm angle by a different amount and therefore will change the point at which it is recommended to change from short arms to long arms. It is usually possible to go to long arms before this point, but there may be some clearance issues that you will have to address.
So what in your personal opinion do you recommend for a LJ? I have a LJ with a 5 inch lift and short arm kit, I am gonna purchase a long arm kit this week but now i'm wondering if brackets would be better for clearance reasons.
I did not expect such extensive from such a young man. I am impressed sir. I learned something from your video. Subbed. Well done.
J.D. Turner thank you very much!
Outstanding presentation and explanation!!
Thanks!
Thank you for this. I just got a 92 XJ and you’re a real awesome resource for info! This was an awesome explanation broken down with great visuals and simple language!
Thanks!
You broke that down perfectly and answered all the questions I had about short and long arms.
wow did not expect such a great presentation from such a young man great job !!!!
thanks!
Nicely explained principals of straight-axle CAs relative to lifting vehicles & results of each option for control arms . Anyone lifting a straight axle truck or Jeep can benefit from watching this basic info properly explained!
+jeffery williams Thanks!
Ahoy mate. In 10 minutes, you explained what it took me a while to decipher. It's all math. Essentially geometry and at its core, angles. Control Arms need to be as horizontal with the frame or unibody to achieve best ride and suspension use. You summed up what many wheelers miss when lifting any vehicle. Your video will save many budget offroaders assembling DIY lift kits many headaches and backache. Thanks, 👍
Very well said. Im impressed with your presentation. Im going to share this with those who argue with me about long arms and short arms
Tim Stephenson thank you very much and I appreciate the Share!
Wow, most informative video I've watched about anything in a long time. Great job.
thanks!
Excellent video. Great job explaining the differences between the lift options.
Great video at explaining the basic geometry. I have shared it on the main clubs I am in. You have more patience than I do. You should make some more getting more involved and going a bit more advanced. Thanks again.
+brendeniandye Thanks! I've actually been trying to figure out a way to build a model and revisit this topic in order to get more in depth with arm length, link design, and layout. If I can figure out a way, I'll definitely post a video!
man you killed it with this amazing presentation good job and thanks!!!!
Thank you!
Extremely well presented explanation of the options. Thank you very much!
skeeterriggs you're welcome. Thank you for the kind words!
Thank you so much! This explanation answered my questions and pointed me in the right direction.
Excellent. This is one of those things that you know but is hard to explain; and you just did it. Just listened to jeeptalkshow podcast with you. Great videos sir. Jeep on. Also followed on Instagram. 👌🏼 excited to see where you take your jeep.
+Jamdeeper Thank you very much!
everyone looking into a lift needs this info ...great job
creepingdeath2012 thanks!
Another informative presentation with simple diagrams to successfully depict the geometry of an XJ's suspension! One detail I'd like to mention: long arms can diminish the break over angle by a small amount - another reason to opt for the "short arm" solution for moderate lifts of 2" - 3". However, If I had the choice, I'd go with the expense of a long arm solution for a 4" lift to.
Thanks! and you're right, there is always a trade-off
Yea man, I agree with all the previous comments, I wasn't expecting as much when i started the video but you explained eveything flawlessly and it was easy understanding . good job man, seem's like you're in your element !
thank you!
Wonderful explanation. On a lifted 93-98 Jeep ZJ the rear wheel needs to be adjusted rearward. So this helps me understand the what and why.
Great vid man. You have a talent for presenting.
Thanks!
Excellent video young man!
Absolutely awesome video. Very informative
excellent presentation. I was confused prior to watching your video, now it's all clear! lol
thanks!
Wow Kid . Schooled us. Just got an 03 Rub with 21,000 miles and short arms , Long arm goes on this week , thanks for helping me understand the concept ..eases my mind , The Jeep currently handles terribly . Bushings sat and dried .
Very well explained. Great video. Keep up the good work.
I just learned a lot, thank you so much:) this really helped me out, you’re awesome!
Well done.
The only other time I have seen an explanation between the three different set-up as good as that was on the TV Show Extreme 4x4....
Keep up the great work, you're turning out some good content!
-Josh B.
(The XJ Talk Show)
Josh B Thanks!
fantastic job on the video. very well done
royo1s thanks!
Well played and executed. Thanks for being able to explain to some of my 4x4 buddies why my articulation is so much better. I have a long arm kit. Dig the hat. I just subscribed.
Thanks! and go Sun Devils!
It all makes a lot more sense now. Cheers! :)
That was an awesome explanation, thank you very much!!!
Nice video. Very helpful in my decision between drop brackets and long arm. Gonna go for the drop brackets for the time being then will upgrade to long arm kit later. Thanks!
glad to hear it! that is the way I went as well.
Excellent presentation.
+Jim Devlin, Jr. Thanks!
Excellent explanation. Well done.
Amazing presentation!
Great presentation! Learned a lot, and at only a 10 minute video.
Thanks!
Quite thorough bud, hell yea man!
Thanks!
Wow great video kid . I'm impressed
Awesome video! Keep em coming.
Thanks! Posting a new video right now.
THAT WAS AN AWESOME EXPLANATION
Great job. I'm subscribing to your channel. You just talked me into the 6.5 long arms for my 94. Thanks!
Excellent video!
thanks!
NICE JOB YOUNG MAN
Thank you!
Nice vid. Lots of good info.
Thanks!
excellent explanation. thank you sir for a tremendous job well done.
Thanks!
Fantastic explanation bud!
+Jake Holtzclaw Thanks! If you'd like more of these videos, consider subscribing!
You speak well for a young lad. Keep it up.
Well done!
Thank you sir that was very helpful indeed.
Outstanding!
Thanks!
I already have adj. controls arms, but I want to add the drop brackets and use both. That should work.
Great video man. Especially from a young buck. Course, you ain't a young buck anymore now are ya.
Awesome Job!! Im gonna search to see if you have any on track bars.
l07smitty i mention a few things about track bars in my video about lifting a cherokee. Anything in particular you want to know?
very informative video, thanks!
+Lawrence Van Doninck Glad you found it useful!
Thanks man, great information.
Well done admiral.
Thank you!
excellent explanation - thank you
Thanks!
At first i was like this guys not gonna know what hes talking about but well dkne sir you actually convinced me to buy a long arm 6.5in kit
Great Video ! I have a question though.. I'm looking to get a long arm 5.5'' kit from rubicon express with 35'' tires.. Does a long arm kit ride well on the highway?? My jeep see's a lot of highway use because I work in the pipeline industry, however I am
off-roading everyday to get to where the work is going on ''NOT ROCK CRAWLING, JUST HEAVY TRAIL RIDING..
Great job on the explanation.
thank you!
Good shit , it actually cleared up a question I had haha.
glad to hear it!
Great video man! I just have one question that I'm still struggling with. I have a 2015 wrangler unlimited rubi. I am looking to do a 3" suspension lift to house 35" x 12.5" tires. Would you reccomend a short arm or long arm? price isn't really an option as i don't mind paying a little more for the right product. I will be changing my bumpers to high clearance bumpers and also changing the fenders as well. All information is greatly appreciated. Another thing i should mention is i will not be doing any rock crawling and my vehicle will be used as an every day driver. I will on the other hand be doing some off roading on local off road trails in southern California. Thanks again for your advice.
+Arthur Garibyan Thank you very much! Long arms will ride the smoothest because of the decreased control arm angle. With three inches of lift short arms won't ride too badly, but if money isn't a concern, I'd go with the long arms. From personal experience, the first lift I did on my XJ was 3.5 in with stock control arms. I then went to 4.5 with drop brackets and the jeep rode much better at the higher lift height with a lower control arm angle. I'm currently saving for long arms and wish I had done that from the start. JKs have longer control arms stock than XJs, so again, your ride shouldn't be uncomfortable with short arms as long as you get quality shocks and springs, but long arms offer the best possible ride, especially if you ever plan on going taller in the future.
very nicely done - thanks for sharing. Good explanation.
Thanks!
This vid deserves a thumbs up. Do you think a bracket is necessary with a 2.5in coil lift? I'm not mechanically inclined but was told it improves caster angle (whatever that is). Can you touch on caster a bit and what it does in terms of ride quality?
Blue Stacks thank you for the compliment! with a 2.5 in lift, i wouldn't use drop brackets. most drop brackets that I've seen drop the control arms about 4-5 inches. with a 2.5 in lift, this will put the control arms at a negative angle and you will just be giving up ground clearance. I wouldn't worry about caster angle too much with 2.5 in of lift, but you could get adjustable control arms and adjust caster that way. Caster angle can effect things like steering. Positive caster angle (front end of the axle higher than the rear) will make the tires tend to want to track straight but too much can make it harder to turn the steering wheel, giving a heavy steering feel. Negative caster angle (front of the axle is lower than the rear) does the opposite. It can make the wheels not want to track straight and cause some wandering and strange steering quirks, especially when hitting bumps.
Very well done my man I did learn something from your video.
thanks! glad to hear it
How about adding the long arm to your last display. Long arm angle actually is about same angle as drop brackets but don't go all the way to cross member. So less to hang up on rocks. Plus you won't drop on a long arm and bend it on a trail
Can you do drop brackets and adjustable control arms? That is what I have and am considering removing the brackets.
Does this cover upper control arms too or just lower? Meaning, seems like shops sell them separately but I assume lift kits come with both as they would need to match, does that make sense?
Ima go drop bracket so I get good ride and good ground clearance kind of like an all around set up
Wow this was exactly what I was looking for!
Now how do I figure out what length is the correct length for the short control arms for my lift?
most aftermarket control arms are adjustable so you can make them longer or shorter to re center the wheel in the wheel well. Or, if you want to get all scientific about it, you can measure the current vertical and horizontal distance from your body side control arm mounts to your axle side control arm mounts with your current ride height and control arm length. Then add the amount of lift you want to your vertical distance, keep your horizontal distance the same and get your new control arm length. (a^2)+(b^2)=(c^2) where a=vertical distance, b=horizontal distance, and c=control arm length.
Well done. Thank you.
thanks!
Long-arms hang low, too. You're more likely to get hung up towards the center of your vehicle than you are with drop brackets. Also, the larger your tires, the less likely you are to get hung up on drop brackets.
I'll rather get hung up on sturdy long arms than weak stock control arm brackets that will get rip off
Keep in mind also , most guys running long arms are also running 38 , 40 & 44 inch tires as well . So there ground clearance is already ridiculously high
Drop brackets hand way too low and they are more likely to hit stuff than long arms. Drop brackets are a temporary solution but the ultimate solution is long arms.
Impressive video
Thank you!
Great explanation ! I see a Leadership CEO position in your future with those presentation skills. I was thinking of going with a 2.5 inch lift or a 4 inch lift on my 2015 jk unlimited wrangler, maybe tereflex, but I'm open to suggestions since you seem to know your shit. Would you suggest long arm kit or short arm kit for that amount of lift with 35 inch tires ? "I would want the best, since I plan on keeping my Jeep for awhile and am afraid of getting a "flighty feeling" if I go long arms P.s I can tell you're right handed by the wear under your baseball cap haha.
Thanks! If you know of any of those positions open, hit me up ;) Teraflex makes great parts and wouldn't hesitate to buy any of their products. Long arms will give you the best performance in terms of suspension travel and ride quality. For addressing the flighty feeling, proper steering geometry and maintenance will go a long way in combating it. you will want your drag link to be parallel to the track bar in order to minimize bump steer and the less angle of the drag link, the less of a potential for a laggy steering feel. Properly inflated tires and good swaybar links with quick disconnects will give you stability on road and you can disconnect them when you need it. Very astute observation on the hat!
Hi you are very informative and precise! I have a random question, when you see serious rwd pre runner baja trucks get air, the hole rear end drops down and is attached by a huge arm near the middle? is this the same idea?
Most of the Trophy Trucks will use a trailing arm triangulated 4 link setup. The angle of the control arms helps control the side to side motion of the axle and eliminate the need for a track bar. Some run a 3 link trailing arm setup with a wishbone at the top which is similar except that the upper control arms are connected together. It may look like there is only one arm, but what you are seeing is probably one of the trailing arms.
What’s your opinion on the metal cloak radius arms for the front and drop bracket for the rear to simulate long arms for the JK?
I got a Dodge Ram 2500 2nd gen I had a 2.5 inch leveling kit for past 2yrs truck rode like crap.. Turns out my control arms were causing the rough ride and stock shocks. So I ordered lifted shocks and longer control arms.. My guess is anything over 3-4 inches you would need long arms but small lift the change isn't that drastic
Have you installed them yet? I have had a few questions about specific vehicles with X lift and arm lengths so anyone that can share their experience with different vehicle and lift/ arm combos would probably help someone out.
Wow awesome video! I wanted to ask you I have a question I have been thinking of building a custom lift kit. I currently have pro comp shocks that are for a 4 in lift and I have 2 in coil spacers on my stock coil springs. I saw a guy the other day and he had a 3.5 lift kit with 2in spacers and said drive quality was good now I don't know how true that was but I was thinking of kind of doing the same thing but instead doing a control arm bracket as well as caster and Pinon angle brackets to accommodate for the extra 2in spacers and then also getting a better drive shaft to accommodate as well later on. Do you think that would work? the only reason is because I'm trying to find the cheapest most effective way without making something else more expensive break to my jeep jk unlimited. I am really trying lift my vehicle 5-6in I know I'm crazy but I just really like that look and I'll be honest I'm that guy that is a mall Crawler haha so clearance is not important to me I just don't want to break anything with doing a custom lift kit and body spacers look weird to me so that's not an option for me haha
Sell your Jeep to me and buy one made for the mall parking lot! Lol
I'm adding a rough country leveling kit to my 2009 gmc sierra 4x4. The leveling kit is 2.5 inch in the front and 2 inch in the back. Should I keep my stock upper and lower control arms ? Or should I get new one's and if so what should I get for a 2009 gmc sierra 4x4? Thanks
2017 ram 3500 4x4 dually how bout long arm drop brackets and use of newer long arm kit?
Hey man i just installed a 4 inch it came with lower front control arms but also came with drop brackets, but i noticed it rides like crap an makes nasty noises goin over bumps, so my question is should i just remove the drop brackets and shift my axle forward front control arms their not much longer maybe a inch tops
Makes perfect sense
Well done.
Trenton Erker thanks for the share!
great job bro. Just one question, doesn't all this also affect the length of your driveshaft? So say, lifted jeep with stock control arms bring your vehicle up and your axle back a little just like you explained. Wouldn't that mean your driveshaft is also moving back? So wouldn't you need a shorter driveshaft? On the contrary, lifted jeep with long control arms, wouldn't you need a longer driveshaft since you're extending that angle?
Christian Gutierrez Great question and yes you're right. whenever the axle moves up, down, forwards, or backwards, the driveshaft also changes length. The front drive shaft in an XJ is two pieces allowing it to lengthen and compress as the suspension cycles. This does have its limitations, though and if you lift your jeep really high you might need to get a new driveshaft. The rear driveshaft in a XJ uses a slip yoke and the shaft itself remains the same length. a common modification with lifted XJs is a slip yoke eliminator which eliminates the slip yoke and uses a stock XJ front driveshaft in place of the stock rear driveshaft. This modification generally is done to eliminate driveline vibrations. Hopefully this answered your question, but I know I got a little bit off topic.
nice job. well spoken
+mike weber thanks!
impressive tutorial, thanks
Thanks!
I'm new to this, so would a 5.5" long arm kit with 35" tires for a TJ, provide a better ride quality on the highway as a daily driver as well?
long arms will have a better ride quality than short arms
Admiral, there's a lawyer type dude in Mesa, AZ that talks about a lot of legal issues, including vehicle citations, here on the tube. Do you follow his work?
Hi...jeep noob here. Planning to add 3" lift w/shocks, possibly run a smaller wheel size (currently have 17") maybe going down to 15" w/35s tires. I'm worried about my caster angle. Would long arms help with the caster angle? Do I need to get all new short upper and long lower control arms?
You will not run into any serious caster angles with a 3 inch lift. I was on stock control arms with 3.5 and had no ill effects but if you are concerned, adjustable control arms can help correct caster angle
Nice explanation
thanks!
I still think irregardless of control arm angle if the springs you install are way too stiff it will still be a rough ride. Nice explanation though!
how do i center my rear axle, im lifted 4.5" on short arms, adjustable uppers, my tire is almost hitting under passenger door !
You will either need to get longer lowers or use drop brackets if you aren't going to go with a long arm setup.
if i was to lower rear lift from 4" to 2" by lift cups on springs. question is will my pinion angle change
Depending on the way your rear control arms are set up, there may be a change. However, with such a small difference in lift height, I wouldn't foresee any issues, especially if you didn't have any problems at stock height or 4".
Good vid. Thanks
I will say this 2nd gen Ram 2500 u will have to do upgrades to suspension if ur coils are not compressed/worn out with anything over 2.5 inches.. I have a 3rd gen as well i did 2.5 inch leveling kit I didn't have to change anything.. My advice to ppl that what lift but really don't go off road and basically use truck on road or for work.. Just get a leveling kit and add a body lift if you really want bigger tires/nice rims.. If your off-roading, rock climbing, muddiin personally I believe you need over 4 inches of lift and yes go with long arms.. But I had a different view/ purpose. Mine was I use it for work I plow snow and drive on beach. My plow weight would drop my tie rods etc onto my sfa. So I looked into timbrens my view overpriced and don't work that well it still dropped my front end on my other trucks.. So I looked into lift kits and 3 inch kits were a lot for trucks that would get abused by employees etc. so I went with leveling kits and some nicer tires on the stock rims but had I done it again I would have gotten a 2 inch instead of a 2.5.. These are my views/ opinions I want to start making videos etc but just don't know how to go about it and or really have the Time
Robert Tutela Jr o u xuzioaa
If i currently have a Rubicon 4.5” lift with stock control arm and i want to buy the drop bracket conversion i still use the Rubicon control arms?
if they are adjustable, then yes, it not, they might move your axle forward a bit
Impressive presentation. a Q: if i want to install 35 inch tires with Coil Spring Lift Kits, would you still recommend using control arm drop brackets for more comfy ride??
It depends on how much lift you are going to have on your jeep and what your ultimate goal is. I have a 4.5in lift and drop brackets ride really well. I'm Saving up for long arms to get more down travel since I'm planning on running 35s on my 4.5 in lift. Long arms will have more travel, but I'm not at all disappointed in my drop brackets. I paid $100 for them and I think they're worth it.
Admiral Off-Road thanks for replying. going to have 3 inch coil spring lift.
alghamdis123 I need a little more information about your application in order to give you the proper information. what kind of jeep are you planning on running this combination on? If it is an XJ,here is a link to a really good forum thread about Low COG XJs (small lift on big tires) that I think could help you out. www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/low-cog-suspension-setup-tricks-tips-revised-9-24-12-a-32980/ I can send you a lot more links and info about that setup if you would like to message me over facebook. facebook.com/pages/Admiral-Off-Road/1730912723801407?ref=bookmarks If it is for a different application, the amount of lift will change the control arm angle by a different amount and therefore will change the point at which it is recommended to change from short arms to long arms. It is usually possible to go to long arms before this point, but there may be some clearance issues that you will have to address.
thanks.
Quality vid.
What was the vehicle in the diagram?
So what in your personal opinion do you recommend for a LJ? I have a LJ with a 5 inch lift and short arm kit, I am gonna purchase a long arm kit this week but now i'm wondering if brackets would be better for clearance reasons.
+Michael Coke If you have the budget for long arms, that is what I would go with
+Admiral Off-Road I will stick with the plan then. Thanks for the video it was done well!
+Michael Coke Thanks! And good luck. Just out of curiosity, what long arm kit are you going with?
+Admiral Off-Road I am going with the Teraflex long arm kit, I am stoked and cant wait to install it.
+Michael Coke very cool!