ive been looking at the short colts 75gr wadcutters loaded with 2 gr of red-dot or bullseyes. the load data says 600fps for the special, the short colts should go faster around 700-750fps. but i dont have the dies, or chronograph to test. would you be willing to try this load for a video. im curious on the velocity, groups and penetration, and also how the recoil is. www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=231
Hey Sam, I love watching you work. ;) Really good penetration there and it gives me another idea of how to increase your work load. I would do this myself if I had a good place to shoot. I think it would be very enlightening to take some 38 HBWCs and work up loads starting at say 800fps and going down to what I would call a garden load at about 400fps in 100fps increments and compare in the box. Then it would be interesting to do the same with round ball. In that case one could even add in one using the same powder charge as the 800fps HBWC round which I would guess would get closer to 1000fps. What's the point beyond curiosity you might ask. It would be good to know what to expect if faced with a two legged predator if you are knocking about in the woods with your squirrel or pest/gallery loads cued up.
I am one of those people who invested in 22LR and 22 mag in revolvers for the low recoil. I viewed the unreliable nature of rimfires as a necessary trade off to get that level of control. I wish someone had informed me of .38 short and long colt as options in .357 revolvers or of the very existence of .32 short, long, magnum, and .327. Now I find myself with a small collection of neat .22s (LR and WMR) that are probably going to become safe queens as I explore the world of .32 and .38 shorts and longs. Thanks for your videos, please continue to provide these cartridges with the coverage they deserve.
As shown in other presentations, the .38 Special wadcutter at short range makes for a decent personal protection round. Low recoil with greater retained kinetic energy at @148 gr. weight. When that flat soft lead projectile hits bone, it generally deforms to cause a worse wound channel. The round is found more widely than either of these 'obsolete' rounds. Sam, you did an excellent presentation on these archaic calibers.
The 32 short the 38 shorts and a 38 special wad cutter are all expensive and not easy to find The 38 special cases and wadcutter bullets are going to be a lot easier to find an a lot easier to reload and if you had two you can reload them with less powder for a lower velocity and still have an excellent man Stopper Still the 22 magnum is going to be a lot more affordable and easier to find and it’s still reasonable for delivered energy
I am really digging this channel. After seeing your video I purchased a Ruger LCR 327 Federal Magnum revolver. When I picked it up I had another customer approached me regarding the 327 Federal Magnum cartridge. I ended up speaking him at length with the intel that I learned watching this channel. Looks like I now have another reason to purchase a 357 revolver so that I can fully utilize its full range of various cartridges, especially geared for less recoil.
Wow! Excellent shooting! I'm impressed! Most people do not realize how hard it is to shoot those groups from 25 yards with a 4 inch barrel let alone a snubby. Great video and great shooting
Thank you. I did aim that centered head shot with the first shot with the .32 S&W! Just kidding, got lucky but it was funny to see that, I was aiming about 4-5" lower than where I hit.
I'm so glad you made this video on these two calibers. They may be old school but to me the 38 Smith & Wesson short is by far the ultimate pocket snub nose revolver caliber. Power factor very close to a 380. Felt recoil is really low especially for the ladies I wish the 38 S.W. short would come back in a modern-day firearm . Although the 22 long rifle and 22 magnum are good calipers for a pocket revolver the fact that their rimfire makes them somewhat questionable in an emergency. The center of fire cartridge of the 38 short is perfect for a pocket revolver and again I have to say perfect for the ladies you should come back with some modern day firearms and modern day bullets I'm sure it could even be beefed up a little bit
I edc a 32sw lemon squeezer. Its reloadable unlike 22. I load a 100 gn keith bullet .313 under 1.5 red dot. Its accurate as hell and penetrates way better then the store bought ammo. Recoil is nearly non existent. Domething about the small size of the .313 bullet at 100gns makes it perfect to bury itself deep in tissue
I had always heard that the .32 was an accurate round but I never thought they could be that effective for self defense. I mean, going through water I expected, but the particle board? Wow.
I tried to punch a screwdriver through that fiber board with it on cement. As hard as I could, and it only wen't halfway through it. It's medium density and at least as tough as ribs.
Thanks. They are both versatile but in their own interesting way. The .327 and .32 H&R as well as .32 S&W have almost no ammo choices but the .32 S&W Long has a lot of choices, so the .32 S&W Long is like the .38 Special of the cartridge family.
Thank you for the video. I agree with your synopsis and would add there is more reliability with a center fire cartridge than a rim fire. I know this video is a few years old but a follow-up would be to test buffalo bore ammo. They make several old calibers with wad cutter and flat faced bullets to make them more effective for self defense in vintage and modern handguns. Thanks again.
Yes Gun-Sam you are absolutely correct and I agree that your video should make it a little more clear. A .38 S&W SC casing and bullet has a significantly larger diameter than the .38 SC that is in the .38 sp and .357 family (not to mention confusion that may arise from European .38 versions) - Very few gun owners are old enough to know the difference and might try to force a .38 S&W SC into a .357 chamber, which on older and worn .357 revolvers, might barely fit and if fired might have unpredictable results.
I hadn't thought about .38 short colt in my .357/.38spl, Ruger GP100 or .38spl LCR. Now of course I've gotta compare them all just for curiosity's sake. Another good video!
This was awesome! I have never seen anyone test .38 Short Colt before. It makes perfect sense for all the reasons you listed, too so other self-defense and survival folks need to pay attention to this. I didn't know it was available (my adventures seeking antiquated cartridges are a bit dated), but now I may have to get some. Hmm ... out of my 4" Dan Wesson it should be easy shooting indeed. I love .32 S&W (I think we discussed on here once its possible compatibility in .32 H&R and .327 revolvers). That was a great test on it as well. I've never even tried to shoot it at 25 yards. Now I gotta! :) LOL. I always suspected it would be "enough" and even better than a .22, but to actually be able to see it was great! I have, in my antique-but-still-works-great-and-is-too-much-fun-to-be-a-safe-queen collection a vintage S&W safety hammerless tip-up revolver in .32 S&W. It's one of the early production models with the push-button release. Some highly skilled 19th or early 20th Century gunsmith shortened the barrel to sub 2", re-crowned it and remounted the front sight. He must have allowed for the shorter barrel when he fit the sight because so far (at least out to maybe 15 yards or so) it is pretty much on. I've toted it as a woods gun, a backup to another vintage piece, and generally just enjoy it. Nice to see what it can do in your tests (i.e. maybe I'm not so crazy for totin' it for bad snakes and homicidal squirrels, LOL).
Thank you. I will at some point possibly try .38 Long Colt and see how that does. To my understanding it's the same .358 diameter bullet at the same velocity....but at 158 gr instead of 125 gr. I know I mentioned in another video that Ruger does not list .32 S&W as a compatible cartridge, but it shot just fine. I did notice though, that after what I fired today which was something like 20-25 rounds, the .32 S&W were a tad stuck in extraction. Not too bad, but a tad. The .38 Short Colt never had extraction issues.
@@GunSam - I have frequently thought how far one could stretch the use of .357 brass in reloading. Split case mouth? No prob. Cut it and you have .38 spl. Split again? No worries, a little nip and polish and you have .38 Long Colt ... and so on. Actually, the overall length needn't be specifically to the next official caliber down, so long as one's dies will seat and crimp correctly. Man, I gotta get back into reloading. Anyway, it's all about poking a hole and either of those cartridges seem able to do just that quite well enough to reach the vitals. Thanks again for your work!
This review is extremely informative . You just highlighted a piece of data that I don't think most people realize its implication. Everyone that owns a 357 Magnum has an option that's available to them , and until I saw this review , I never thought of my 357 Magnum as a (4) shooter ! Man , .......I'm serious ,... that's big stuff !! That makes my Convertible 357/9mm Blackhawk , a big **cken deal ! That's a gun with tremendous capabilities . Same for anyone owning a .327 Federal Magnum . Brilliant , GUN SAM ! I really mean it .
You failed to mention one major advantage the .32 revolver has over the .38- that .32 revolver was not only significantly lighter, but carries SIX rounds over the heavier .38's five round capacity- and considering the low shot count, six vs. five can be a huge deal.
But then there is follow up shots. AmmoMart along with Lucky Gunner did this test to see the difference in time and it was eye popping to say the least. And keep in mind he was shooting .32 H&R Magnum and not the softer recoiling .32 S&W long in this video. Go to the 6 minute mark. ua-cam.com/video/7iL4k7y4MOU/v-deo.html Here is the Lucky Gunner video where he does the 5x5 drill and the times between 8 different types of ammo. Go to the 7 minute mark. Again, eye popping. ua-cam.com/video/rz_m4M8CAe0/v-deo.html
These rounds did a lot better than I expected, especially impressed by the .38 SC. Ammo Seek had plenty of listings for it just now (4/12/20), but it’s pricey. Ranged from 65¢ to 85¢ per round. But, if someone was out of .38 ammo and needed to find it during the current unpleasantness, it’s available.
Thanks for another great vid. I'm a big fan of the LCRX in .327, but I use fairly mild loads in .32 H&R brass (which is easy to obtain from Starline or Cabelas). I totally agree that there's no reason to trust unreliable rimfires for defense.
Never came across your channel - I love your setup! Great shooting too, I have to say. I was searching 32 s&w videos because I just was given and repaired a century-old H&R top break and can't wait to shoot it!!
I may have to try the .28 Short Colt. Not that I'm recoil sensitive but I'm impressed with your results. I was surprised to see that I had been unsubscribed to your channel this morning. Other channels warn of it but it's the first time this has happened to me. Thanks again. Looks like temps are warming in your area.
Great video it's high time we started looking at those old 20th century calibers that people carried under the lapel or in the pocket. Never understood why people will extol the virtues of the .22 rimfire and yet completely dismiss the more powerful .32s and .38s? Either of those two calibers would be great for carry. Dad had a S&W dbl-action revolver in .32 S&W Long for years. Always took it on long trips and had it somewhere in the house.
Thanks for testing the these loads. I love the old Charles Bronson movie Death Wish where he carries a beautiful little shiny .32 Colt, but there is no info out there on how this load performs. Performed better that I expected. Not my first choice for self defense, but better that a .22 or .25.
I love that old movie. The 32 worked great for Charlie ! I've owned and carried several 32 handguns over the years. Autos and revolvers. Even had a Spanish made S&W copy revolver in 32-20. I traded the gun off but kept the only 6 bullets I could find for it. I've always thought the 32's were way under ratted. I'm glad to see them making a comeback.
Very interesting for me. I never heard of .38 short colt or .38 Long colt. Hmmm hope to see a video of .38 LC vs .32 S&W L, or even .38 LC vs .38 special. Thanks for videos
First time I've seen the .38SC tested. I'd be curious about putting it up against the .32 Smith and Wesson Long. I just came into an old Charter Arms Undercoverette in that caliber, and it came with a newer box of ammunition, the first I've ever had in SWL. Haven't been able to try it out yet, though.
@@craigfinley2507 The Charter Arms Undercoverette is a small-framed revolver originally marketed to female (or other slightly-built) law enforcement officers and shooters. Initially, it was offered in .32 Smith and Wesson Long, which is what I have. Current models are in .32 H&R Magnum.
@@craigfinley2507 If it's chambered for .32 Long, it will fire that and the older .32 Smith and Wesson, but will not accept (and wouldn't be safe with) the Magnum cartridge, which wasn't developed until the early 1980s. Revolvers chambered in .32 H&R Magnum will fire all three cartridges, and guns in .327 Federal Magnum will fire all four.
Wadcutters in .38 Special (or .32 S&W Long if you have a .327/.32 H&R) are really hard to beat. I would say the wadcutters are a better choice than lead round nose like in this video.
My grandfather was a sheriff from 1948 - 1970. His everyday duty gun was a S&W chambered in 38 S&W. It was WWII surplus, which he bought after getting elected. I still have this gun. I shoot it occasionally, although ammo is getting hard to find. But it's a very mild round, very accurate.
Today I was testing a Webley #5 revolver in 360 Rook. It is a similar round to the S &W. 160 gr SWC at 650 fps. An old time black powder round. I load it with Win 231. When I originally clocked it at 650 fps, I assumed it would just bounce off a target. Thanks to you, I now know this antique could be effective.
People can say what they want but I carry a H&R 732 Sidekick in .32 S&W Long because that's what I inherited. It came with a reloading setup and spare parts so that's my pocket gun.
I wouldn't call a 22 a bad option, but the trigger pull on a reliable 22 revolver is horrendous as you need heavier springs to be reliable. Interesting to see the 38 Short Colt get some love. I can attest to the 32 Short load achieving that sort of penetration. I had an Iver Johnson with a 3 inch barrel, running the same ammo you had at about 660 fps, getting about 18 inches or so in gel. Not a lot of damage, but more than deep enough to reach the critical systems and break them.
I would love someday to get into testing .22 LR/.22 mag etc. I used to have a 4" Ruger MK3 22/45 and I really regret getting rid of it, would have been perfect for testing. But if I recall you reviewed that Wrangler revolver and got good views on it, so that might be an option for me for testing ammo.
@@GunSam The Heritage Rough Rider with both cylinders would be a good, inexpensive way to test various .22 loads. You can get them in a number of barrel lengths and you can retro order the 22mag cylinder if you see a great buy on the 22lr only model. Fun guns and very inexpensive.
Very cool. I was out shooting my LCR 327 the other day, showing my son the different rounds it can fire. WIth the 327 being annoying to shoot, the 32 H&R feeling kind of proper in recoil, the 32 long I had were terribly inconsistent and the 32 short made us both laugh in how lite the recoil is. We were comparing it to a 22LR in recoil as you mention. I prefer the 32 H&R as far as self defense goes. Thanks for doing so much with the versatility of the 327!
Thanks for watching. It was funny as you say. I wanted to mention on camera the truth that it felt like an empty case with no powder and no bullet, just felt like firing a primer. But I didn't want to come off cocky lol
When there's panic buying, it's good to know that I can still run stuff no one else might want. I think I'll try some shorts in my 4" revolver. Might be a good alternative small game getter.
the usual .380 acp fires a 95 grain full metal jacket at 980 ft per second for a muzzle energy of 203 ft lbs, the .38 short colt shoots a 125 grain round nose bullet to an average of 107 ft lbs
@@redcat9436why isn’t it? It has less energy than a 357 and more energy than a 38 spec and fits the cylinder tighter than a 38 spec, the bullet is the same diameter as a 9mm which just happens to be made to fire from the same barrel as the 357/38 in some manufacturers revolvers (S&W, Ruger,Taurus, German made Korth, the German made Spohr) and the ejector will catch the semi flange on the shell casing to eject them! 357/38: .357 diameter bullet- 9mm/38super: .355 diameter bullet.
The .38 short definitely sounds like a fun round for plinking,especially for the wife who is somewhat recoil sensitive with her Airweight. Hopefully my favorite online supplier will have them back in stock soon.
They were fun to shoot. I'd love to experiment with 125 gr plated bullets, would have to up the powder charge a tad from normal .38 SC loads to overpower the increase in bore friction, but they would shoot cleaner than lead.
At first the raw chronograph numbers made me think "might as well throw rocks." The actual performance in test media made me re-think that. Still not my first choice for defensive carry, but I'd take either one of these over the .22 just for being centerfire. Good video!
The .38 Short Colt is very viable, but the .32 S&W is questionable. I once shot some 18 gauge aluminum sheeting with the .32 and it bounced off and flattened the bullets to pancakes. The reason is the old school .32 uses pure lead bullets, combine that with the low power and you aren't too far off from shooting marshmallows out of a nerf gun. The .32 S&W Long was a gigantic leap for the .32 S&W.
And to a point I made, if you watch the beginning you can see the .32 S&W has black bullets which indicate pure lead, as where the .38 Colt has grey bullets indicating other alloys to make it harder.
Both good points. Honestly, I didn't even know that the .38 Short Colt was compatible with .38 Spl revolvers. Maybe I had it confused with the .38 S&W? I shoot a fair bit of .32 S&W Long through my .327 revolver and enjoy its accuracy, its low recoil, and the fact that I don't really have to go out of my way to find it. Not sure what use I'd have for .32 S&W, but it's a possibility to keep in the back of my mind nevertheless.
I would probably save the 32 shorts for small game but if I were caught in a defense situation with them loaded up I wouldn't panic just shoot for upper chest and or headshots.
You should try to get some ballon head antique black powder ammo in these calibers.. i've heard that they pack a lot more punch than modern smokeless equivalents.. not much study has been done on them. I read on smith and wesson forum that an old timer chronographed 2 different brands of .32S&W and got an average velocity of 740 for one brand and 820 for the other.
Even Taurus customer support and Remington aren’t aware of running .38 short colt through a .357 magnum revolver. They say they don’t recommend it, but each representative seemed unsure about my question on using the lesser cartridges. Is that Remington 125 grain RN wheel gun product? I can’t find .38 long colt yet.
Watched is for the third time. Learned that the 38 Short Colt is not the same as a 38 S&W. Surprised (again) at the penetration, even though the energy level is low. I just tested a 22 Mag derringer and the energy was about 120 ft lbs, more than the two loads you just tested. I would prefer the larger hole and good penetration over the 22mag.
Bullet diameter for 38 Smith and Wesson short is .361, bullet diameter for 38 special or 357 magnum is .357. Even though the 38 Smith and wasn’t short is a very low powered round, you could have Pressure issues shooting it through a 38 or 357 revolver.
There's a reason the .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W top break revolvers were vastly popular with our ancestors. Before everyone "knew" they were totally inadequate. The way the firearms press sneers at them now, you'd think anyone shot with one of those calibers not only showed no reaction, but actually experienced a general improvement in their overall condition. This is not accurate. .32 ACP, which is ballistically right there in the same neighborhood, was essentially the standard European police cartridge for roughly 80 years. Unfortunately most of the guns which chamber these rounds and are generally encountered now are the low cost pocket revolvers which have gross cylinder/barrel gaps that hamstring velocity. A quality revolver with a tight gap rather improves things. Even the little .22 Short is entirely capable of causing an extremely dangerous wound. They'll all do the job when used properly. I've gotten to fire a fair quantity of the original black powder loads, and they were surprisingly potent. Recoil of the .38 S&W cartridge in the Safety Hammerless model is rather sharp. Contrary to the current perception of uselessly low power.
7,65 mm was popular in Europe because military cartridges were forbidden on several countries except for the armed forces and the 7.65 mm was still weak enough to employ on regular blowback pistols that were easier and cheaper to manufacture than delayed blowback or short recoil guns. It had nothing to do with quality. 9 mm was still banned in Italy like two years ago.
Thanks for a different perspective. I've shot 38 spcl. and 357 mag. my whole life. Stared shooting when I was 8 and I'll turn 60 this year. Well the long and the short of it is that I never gave much thought to shooting 38 colt.
@cliff deal interesting watch. Made me think of the 40 and 357 sig coming from the 10mm. Also the 45 GAP. Would like to see if its possible to do the same with other rounds limiting burn space.
That's most likely due to them anticipating their usage in antique/vintage revolvers, potentially ones designed for black powder cartridges, so them keeping the pressure down to ensure safe operation means they have to reduce the velocity of the rounds.
Nice comparison. I’d love to shoot some with a .327 magnum. I’m really interested in the caliber for a Henry lever gun and a revolver. If it was available in the 3” LCRx I’d buy it with no question, but I don’t like the idea of DOA because I like the option, and this would not be a CCW, it’s just a range gun. Unfortunately it’s not a rental caliber at any range in my area, so anything people can post is of great interest to me right now. So thank you for your interest.
Did a little search on ammoseek(dot)com: .32 S&W Long: Sellier and Bellot, Magtech, PPU, Aguila, Fiocchi (This is just the first of 4 pages of data). .38 Short Colt: Remington (short page, just 1 page of data)
I load 38 LC for my 51 navy conversion cylinder. With black powder it's a formidable round! Now if only I can find a way to conceal that seven and a half inch barrel!😅
Yeah, actually your shooting looks like it may be getting better, or it tells you are are jerking with anything that doe recoil so need more grip control look at Vogel videos.
Thanks for sharing!..I fire 32 s&w through my Ruger Single Seven and fire 38 short colt through my Colt Single Action Army..extremely light recoil..barely noticable..the Ruger Single Seven can also fire 32ACP...
@Beverly Mandahl A tacticool moron would have said you need 25 rounds in the compensated pistol + 4 other mags (one being in a second pistol with the exact same specs).. I know 357 is potent. We all know. MPG1 might very well be joking. I know I am. 357 is potent but just not as practical as lots of people may think, even with practice, for defensive shooting. Terminal ballistics is only one part of defensive shooting. I find it funny that some old cartridges were throwing .33 medium weight bullets at medium velocities, killing what needed to be killed..
9mm_MAKAROV killed a lot of people too.. That weak cartridge with a goofy looking round ball. Must be because the russians and their buddies trained to roll on the ground while shooting lol.
@Beverly Mandahl the 125 gr semi metal jacketed 357 has a 99% one shot incapacitaion. The second runner up is 45 ACP I believe its the 242 gr semi metal jacketed. Stay healthy and HANG ON
Since more people probably have a 38 special revolver, looking for 38 short colt is going to be the most economical choice. Also, there are more ammo choices for 38 special than for 32 S&W. Incidentally, a 3 inch barrel might get more velocity out of these low recoil loads. Small 3 inch barrel 38 revolvers are fairly easy to find.
.38 Special is more economical that .38 Short Colt to buy ammo, however reloading .38 Short Colt would cost less than .38 Special with the right bullets.
Found a great 38+P load that might be worth testing in the box - 140 XTP with a max load of Longshot (or even .1 higher if you want to hit closer to 18.5k PSI). I’d like to see the results out of a snub and 4 inch. Considering this gives some of the best velocity numbers you can extract from a +P, it should be the right prescription for a XTP
I don't happen to have long shot, but I do plan on testing hand loads for the first time in the Jug-or-Not with what I happen to have the most on hand of. I have a lot of Titegroup and already ordered 125 gr XTP's. I plan decent .38+P's in a snubby and low end .357 Mag in my 4" 686. What I have gotten in the past with these loads is about 900 FPS in the snubby with .38 Special+P and a modest 1,200 FPS with my 4" .357 loads. Once powder and primers become more available to me I may test your suggestions.
@@missouriaviator8871 I hear ya. Ordered bullets and primers, store claimed primers were in order, then recanted saying shipping in a week or two. So I have no primers, but will have bullets.
@@GunSam I bought a few hundred one day while Academy still had the entire section stocked. Came back a couple days later and none left and none in the supply chain. Half the year I'm living near MidwayUSA and pick up all my reloading stuff there same day with no shipping; I feel completely spoiled. Might also mention that I've already done a .2 gr above max with Longshot in a 442. Pretty stout but no chronograph data. 4-5 inch group offhand at 25 yards with POI just 2-3 inches high. I'd really hope to sling that 140 gr close to 925 fps considering the book lists 1125 ish from a 7.7 inch with .2 gr less powder than my "above max" load. Makes me wonder how BB gets 158 grain pills moving 1000 fps from a snub unless they subscribe to a 20-21k max pressure.
@@missouriaviator8871 That's cool to live near Midwayusa. I live near a store called Jay's sporting goods and it's basically like a Cabela's but 3 times bigger with more stuff, local "chain" with just 2 stores in existence. They have a LOT of reloading supplies, so I know how being spoiled is. I ordered only 700 primers a mix of sm and sm magnum and paid $20 for hazmat. Blah. I'm used to $33 for 1,000 and walk out the door!
Definitely an off-beat demonstration to do, but one that deserved being done. I really enjoy you looking at the .32 revolver cartridges, which though admittedly not elephant guns, can find a use. What this demonstration does is demolish comments like, "The .32s bounce off winter clothing" or "The .32s are useless beyond 3 yards." If the tiny .32 S&W will go through fiberboard, it'll definitely go through a parka -- or, worst case, other bony structures.
I tried to penetrate a piece of that board with a phillips screwdriver with it against a cement floor. Hard as swing as possible and it went only halfway through. It's tougher than 1/2" plywood even at 1/4".
@@GunSam It's interesting that just about any caliber will blow right through the fiberboard, even .32 S&W or a .25 acp. If you haven't already (I'm guessing you have), check out this video, Paul Harrell shooting .22 Shorts out of a 3" revolver and a rifle. He shoots through soda bottles, clothes, even soup cans. ua-cam.com/video/C3fPH31Yszo/v-deo.html
@@GunSam These loads are not just good for the very old or very young or physically challenged shooters needing a self-defense round. Another application of these "low recoil" rounds would be in single shot or over/under derringers. There are a lot of those guns out there, and they are extremely difficult to shoot (I won't even qualify that by saying "to shoot _well_ ."). I have a tiny .32 ACP over/under derringer and it kicks far worse than any other gun I own (including a .44, a Taurus .44 snubbie, .45 autos and stout loaded .45 Colts). It's the only gun I've ever had that opened a gash on my knuckle. A reduced load in _any_ derringer would go a long way to make it a much more useful firearm.
I like to think I know a lot about guns and ballistics. I would have bet the 38 Short would have done 2 jugs - max. That test also emulates the 38 S&W round. I have never given that round any credibility. Thank you.
Someday, but I don't know a .22 at the moment. It's always difficult to really get the best tests with .22, but if I had to test it i'd say a 4" revolver or 4" pistol would be the best size to get enough velocity to be effective.
I am becoming more convinced that momentum and SD (or maybe TKO) are better measures of a load's effectiveness than energy at least at handgun velocities. For example an 88gr .312 bullet at 500fps has the same momentum as a 40gr .223 at 1100fps and a slightly better SD but about half the energy. It would be interesting to see that correlated with Jug-Or-Not results. But my guess is that one would find the .32 short load described above just as effective as the .22lr load above. I really don't think the .22 would drastically outperform the .32 as the energy figures might imply. We simply must have a video to test this hypothesis. :D
Thanks for making these videos. Before I started watching them, I thought the LCR was plastic junk. Now I realize it's a quality gun and I'm looking to get one in 327 Fed. Since I reload, I shouldn't have an ammo availability problem. Too bad they don't make moon clips for 32 acp.
The 32ACP has a rim. It shoots just fine in a revolver. However, it is much higher pressure than a 32 S&W (short), so don't shoot in one, even though it fits.
On the topic of mouse guns wouldn't it be fun to put the 19th Century mouse up against the Jug-or-Not? Would love to see how the 1863 Remington 31 Pocket does with a cylinder full of fffg. Could try round ball and conical just for giggles.
Thank you, you have answered so many questions on guns & calibers for me. But, when does one realize that driving their 500 hp Mustang to the store to pick up wood, when driving their truck would have done just fine?
I use that some reference often. Like A Corvette can do 150 but a minivan 90, but you're both going to grocery store at 55, and when you get there which one is more practical? I typically reference this with like 15+1 autos vs 6 shot revolvers, because 3 shots is the average shots ever needed.
I just don't see any reason to buy a lot of .32S&W (short) since it's (1) rather anemic (2) costs more than .32S&W Long (3) only the ancient top breaks are chambered in .32S&W. (4) The more modern (non top break) Colt, Smith and Wesson and H&R revolvers are chambered in .32S&W Long...and can shoot the shorter cartridge as well. But the .32S&W Long does not have much more recoil than the .32S&W Short...so if someone is wanting to use a low recoil round, the cheaper, more powerful S&W Long is the way to go. Really, the comparison should have been .38 Short Colt to .32 S&W Long. Both have been military or police "issue" calibers. I don't know of any military or police that used .32S&W (short) as the caliber for their service revolvers. I only use .32S&W (short) when I dispatch a farm animal. I get it 'dirt cheap' sometimes at estate sales or when I buy an old revolver and the ammo comes with it. Otherwise, I see no reason to purchase .32S&W (short).
Just has to do with the production of ammunition. Just judging by availability you can see that in .32 caliber revolver cartridges, the .32 S&W Long is the most produced and popular. So they run a bunch of it which cuts costs. Stuff like .32 S&W is run less, so it costs more man hours to setup to run what they will make no profit on, UNLESS they mark up the price.
I almost exclusively shoot .32 S&W out of my carry gun since it's so cheap whereas H&R or Federal Magnum where more than 50 cents around BEFORE the Beer Plague
.32 H&R is hard to find, .327 nearly as hard to find. But generally anywhere I go I can find .32 S&W Long but regular .32 S&W I have a hard time finding.
Here's what I did after filming the .38 Short Colt VS .32 S&W test video; "Running the Taurus G2C": ua-cam.com/video/NSFsrrHxYJE/v-deo.html
ive been looking at the short colts 75gr wadcutters loaded with 2 gr of red-dot or bullseyes. the load data says 600fps for the special, the short colts should go faster around 700-750fps. but i dont have the dies, or chronograph to test. would you be willing to try this load for a video. im curious on the velocity, groups and penetration, and also how the recoil is. www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=231
Hey Sam, I love watching you work. ;) Really good penetration there and it gives me another idea of how to increase your work load. I would do this myself if I had a good place to shoot.
I think it would be very enlightening to take some 38 HBWCs and work up loads starting at say 800fps and going down to what I would call a garden load at about 400fps in 100fps increments and compare in the box.
Then it would be interesting to do the same with round ball. In that case one could even add in one using the same powder charge as the 800fps HBWC round which I would guess would get closer to 1000fps.
What's the point beyond curiosity you might ask. It would be good to know what to expect if faced with a two legged predator if you are knocking about in the woods with your squirrel or pest/gallery loads cued up.
I am one of those people who invested in 22LR and 22 mag in revolvers for the low recoil. I viewed the unreliable nature of rimfires as a necessary trade off to get that level of control. I wish someone had informed me of .38 short and long colt as options in .357 revolvers or of the very existence of .32 short, long, magnum, and .327. Now I find myself with a small collection of neat .22s (LR and WMR) that are probably going to become safe queens as I explore the world of .32 and .38 shorts and longs. Thanks for your videos, please continue to provide these cartridges with the coverage they deserve.
You’ll notice the difference in trigger pull also. Rim fire requires a heavier trigger pull
As shown in other presentations, the .38 Special wadcutter at short range makes for a decent personal protection round. Low recoil with greater retained kinetic energy at @148 gr. weight. When that flat soft lead projectile hits bone, it generally deforms to cause a worse wound channel. The round is found more widely than either of these 'obsolete' rounds. Sam, you did an excellent presentation on these archaic calibers.
The 32 short the 38 shorts and a 38 special wad cutter are all expensive and not easy to find
The 38 special cases and wadcutter bullets are going to be a lot easier to find an a lot easier to reload and if you had two you can reload them with less powder for a lower velocity and still have an excellent man Stopper
Still the 22 magnum is going to be a lot more affordable and easier to find and it’s still reasonable for delivered energy
I am really digging this channel. After seeing your video I purchased a Ruger LCR 327 Federal Magnum revolver. When I picked it up I had another customer approached me regarding the 327 Federal Magnum cartridge. I ended up speaking him at length with the intel that I learned watching this channel. Looks like I now have another reason to purchase a 357 revolver so that I can fully utilize its full range of various cartridges, especially geared for less recoil.
That’s what I leave for my wife in the LCR is 32 S&W long , she shoots that great! 👍🏻
Wow! Excellent shooting! I'm impressed! Most people do not realize how hard it is to shoot those groups from 25 yards with a 4 inch barrel let alone a snubby. Great video and great shooting
Thank you. I did aim that centered head shot with the first shot with the .32 S&W! Just kidding, got lucky but it was funny to see that, I was aiming about 4-5" lower than where I hit.
I'm so glad you made this video on these two calibers. They may be old school but to me the 38 Smith & Wesson short is by far the ultimate pocket snub nose revolver caliber. Power factor very close to a 380. Felt recoil is really low especially for the ladies I wish the 38 S.W. short would come back in a modern-day firearm . Although the 22 long rifle and 22 magnum are good calipers for a pocket revolver the fact that their rimfire makes them somewhat questionable in an emergency. The center of fire cartridge of the 38 short is perfect for a pocket revolver and again I have to say perfect for the ladies you should come back with some modern day firearms and modern day bullets I'm sure it could even be beefed up a little bit
I edc a 32sw lemon squeezer. Its reloadable unlike 22.
I load a 100 gn keith bullet .313 under 1.5 red dot.
Its accurate as hell and penetrates way better then the store bought ammo.
Recoil is nearly non existent.
Domething about the small size of the .313 bullet at 100gns makes it perfect to bury itself deep in tissue
I had always heard that the .32 was an accurate round but I never thought they could be that effective for self defense. I mean, going through water I expected, but the particle board? Wow.
I tried to punch a screwdriver through that fiber board with it on cement. As hard as I could, and it only wen't halfway through it. It's medium density and at least as tough as ribs.
Another great 32 caliber video! That LCR is a very versatile gun!
Thanks. They are both versatile but in their own interesting way. The .327 and .32 H&R as well as .32 S&W have almost no ammo choices but the .32 S&W Long has a lot of choices, so the .32 S&W Long is like the .38 Special of the cartridge family.
It’s my favorite.
I love my LCR
Interesting as always. You’re creating quite a reference inventory.
Thank you. I like the oddball stuff.
I was rewatching this video it got me thinking about I've been shooting 357mag/38 for over 30 years and never heard of the 38 short colt
Thank you for the video. I agree with your synopsis and would add there is more reliability with a center fire cartridge than a rim fire. I know this video is a few years old but a follow-up would be to test buffalo bore ammo. They make several old calibers with wad cutter and flat faced bullets to make them more effective for self defense in vintage and modern handguns. Thanks again.
That was some good shooting at 25 yards!
Thank you.
Yes Gun-Sam you are absolutely correct and I agree that your video should make it a little more clear. A .38 S&W SC casing and bullet has a significantly larger diameter than the .38 SC that is in the .38 sp and .357 family (not to mention confusion that may arise from European .38 versions) - Very few gun owners are old enough to know the difference and might try to force a .38 S&W SC into a .357 chamber, which on older and worn .357 revolvers, might barely fit and if fired might have unpredictable results.
Good idea. The hard part is finding 38 short. Not a common round.
3 years later & I still can’t find any
I reloaded my own. Brass is available.
ua-cam.com/video/P7syjLCmuRw/v-deo.htmlsi=a0RCwqfbmMxx0uzG
Love you testing these old style cartridges. I have 2 32s Love them.
I hadn't thought about .38 short colt in my .357/.38spl, Ruger GP100 or .38spl LCR. Now of course I've gotta compare them all just for curiosity's sake. Another good video!
This was awesome!
I have never seen anyone test .38 Short Colt before. It makes perfect sense for all the reasons you listed, too so other self-defense and survival folks need to pay attention to this. I didn't know it was available (my adventures seeking antiquated cartridges are a bit dated), but now I may have to get some. Hmm ... out of my 4" Dan Wesson it should be easy shooting indeed.
I love .32 S&W (I think we discussed on here once its possible compatibility in .32 H&R and .327 revolvers). That was a great test on it as well. I've never even tried to shoot it at 25 yards. Now I gotta! :) LOL. I always suspected it would be "enough" and even better than a .22, but to actually be able to see it was great!
I have, in my antique-but-still-works-great-and-is-too-much-fun-to-be-a-safe-queen collection a vintage S&W safety hammerless tip-up revolver in .32 S&W. It's one of the early production models with the push-button release. Some highly skilled 19th or early 20th Century gunsmith shortened the barrel to sub 2", re-crowned it and remounted the front sight. He must have allowed for the shorter barrel when he fit the sight because so far (at least out to maybe 15 yards or so) it is pretty much on. I've toted it as a woods gun, a backup to another vintage piece, and generally just enjoy it. Nice to see what it can do in your tests (i.e. maybe I'm not so crazy for totin' it for bad snakes and homicidal squirrels, LOL).
Thank you. I will at some point possibly try .38 Long Colt and see how that does. To my understanding it's the same .358 diameter bullet at the same velocity....but at 158 gr instead of 125 gr. I know I mentioned in another video that Ruger does not list .32 S&W as a compatible cartridge, but it shot just fine. I did notice though, that after what I fired today which was something like 20-25 rounds, the .32 S&W were a tad stuck in extraction. Not too bad, but a tad. The .38 Short Colt never had extraction issues.
@@GunSam - I have frequently thought how far one could stretch the use of .357 brass in reloading. Split case mouth? No prob. Cut it and you have .38 spl. Split again? No worries, a little nip and polish and you have .38 Long Colt ... and so on. Actually, the overall length needn't be specifically to the next official caliber down, so long as one's dies will seat and crimp correctly. Man, I gotta get back into reloading.
Anyway, it's all about poking a hole and either of those cartridges seem able to do just that quite well enough to reach the vitals. Thanks again for your work!
This review is extremely informative . You just highlighted a piece of data that I don't think most people realize its implication. Everyone that owns a 357 Magnum has an option that's available to them , and until I saw this review , I never thought of my 357 Magnum as a (4) shooter ! Man , .......I'm serious ,... that's big stuff !! That makes my Convertible 357/9mm Blackhawk , a big **cken deal ! That's a gun with tremendous capabilities . Same for anyone owning a .327 Federal Magnum . Brilliant , GUN SAM ! I really mean it .
Thank you.
You failed to mention one major advantage the .32 revolver has over the .38- that .32 revolver was not only significantly lighter, but carries SIX rounds over the heavier .38's five round capacity- and considering the low shot count, six vs. five can be a huge deal.
Scott Lawson my .38 is 6 rounds. Taurus 856. Great gun
@@kyles280 And WAY cheaper than a Ruger 327 fm.
@@kyles280 Yeah, but isn't the 856 marginally larger/heavier than the Taurus 85?
The LCR is the same size and like 30% lighter.
But then there is follow up shots. AmmoMart along with Lucky Gunner did this test to see the difference in time and it was eye popping to say the least. And keep in mind he was shooting .32 H&R Magnum and not the softer recoiling .32 S&W long in this video. Go to the 6 minute mark. ua-cam.com/video/7iL4k7y4MOU/v-deo.html Here is the Lucky Gunner video where he does the 5x5 drill and the times between 8 different types of ammo. Go to the 7 minute mark. Again, eye popping. ua-cam.com/video/rz_m4M8CAe0/v-deo.html
These rounds did a lot better than I expected, especially impressed by the .38 SC.
Ammo Seek had plenty of listings for it just now (4/12/20), but it’s pricey. Ranged from 65¢ to 85¢ per round. But, if someone was out of .38 ammo and needed to find it during the current unpleasantness, it’s available.
Thanks for another great vid. I'm a big fan of the LCRX in .327, but I use fairly mild loads in .32 H&R brass (which is easy to obtain from Starline or Cabelas). I totally agree that there's no reason to trust unreliable rimfires for defense.
Great low recoil options video. I'm enjoying the .327 LCR, especially with .32S&W long; soft shooting and accurate.
Thank you. The .32 S&W Long really is the go to ammo because it's easy to find but still pretty powerful.
Never came across your channel - I love your setup! Great shooting too, I have to say. I was searching 32 s&w videos because I just was given and repaired a century-old H&R top break and can't wait to shoot it!!
Thanks as always! Stay well out there.
Thanks.
I may have to try the .28 Short Colt. Not that I'm recoil sensitive but I'm impressed with your results.
I was surprised to see that I had been unsubscribed to your channel this morning. Other channels warn of it but it's the first time this has happened to me.
Thanks again. Looks like temps are warming in your area.
it's getting onto the 50's regularly so it feels nice.
That is a great video I didn't know that about 38 long colt and 38 short colt. Fantastic! Thank you!
Great video it's high time we started looking at those old 20th century calibers that people carried under the lapel or in the pocket. Never understood why people will extol the virtues of the .22 rimfire and yet completely dismiss the more powerful .32s and .38s? Either of those two calibers would be great for carry. Dad had a S&W dbl-action revolver in .32 S&W Long for years. Always took it on long trips and had it somewhere in the house.
I stand corrected. You're shooting a S&W .32, not a .32 Long. Still gave outstanding short range performance though.
Thanks for testing the these loads. I love the old Charles Bronson movie Death Wish where he carries a beautiful little shiny .32 Colt, but there is no info out there on how this load performs. Performed better that I expected. Not my first choice for self defense, but better that a .22 or .25.
I love that old movie. The 32 worked great for Charlie ! I've owned and carried several 32 handguns over the years. Autos and revolvers. Even had a Spanish made S&W copy revolver in 32-20. I traded the gun off but kept the only 6 bullets I could find for it. I've always thought the 32's were way under ratted. I'm glad to see them making a comeback.
Good enough for Paul Kersey and James Bond.
I was pretty surprised at the penetration on both. Nice video
Thank you. I was actually thinking over-penetration and was surprised that they stopped where they needed to.
Good job on the comparison..! And the efficiency of the delivery of the specifics.
One of he best
Very interesting for me. I never heard of .38 short colt or .38 Long colt. Hmmm hope to see a video of .38 LC vs .32 S&W L, or even
.38 LC vs .38 special. Thanks for videos
Thanks for watching! .38 LC is really difficult to come by, but I hope to get some when I can. The .32 S&W Long is relatively popular.
Great video.....Still loving my ruger in 327m.
Thank you.
An inspired choice for a matchup. Thanks for that!
Good luck finding .38 Short or 32 S&W. If you do, it will cost a bundle. Plenty of .22 LR around.
His point is for the wife . Buy 1 box of ammo instead of a new gun.
32 isn’t hard to find if you know where to look. Magtec makes a lot of it.
First time I've seen the .38SC tested. I'd be curious about putting it up against the .32 Smith and Wesson Long. I just came into an old Charter Arms Undercoverette in that caliber, and it came with a newer box of ammunition, the first I've ever had in SWL. Haven't been able to try it out yet, though.
What is a coverret charter arms
@@craigfinley2507
The Charter Arms Undercoverette is a small-framed revolver originally marketed to female (or other slightly-built) law enforcement officers and shooters. Initially, it was offered in .32 Smith and Wesson Long, which is what I have. Current models are in .32 H&R Magnum.
@@Just1American1966 Thanks for that info. I have an old H&R model 732 32 s&w long I would like to know if I could shoot H&R 32 mag. Get back
@@craigfinley2507
If it's chambered for .32 Long, it will fire that and the older .32 Smith and Wesson, but will not accept (and wouldn't be safe with) the Magnum cartridge, which wasn't developed until the early 1980s.
Revolvers chambered in .32 H&R Magnum will fire all three cartridges, and guns in .327 Federal Magnum will fire all four.
This is my first time to watch one of your videos. Very interesting and informative. And timely! Trying to find the right combination for my wife...
Wadcutters in .38 Special (or .32 S&W Long if you have a .327/.32 H&R) are really hard to beat. I would say the wadcutters are a better choice than lead round nose like in this video.
My grandfather was a sheriff from 1948 - 1970. His everyday duty gun was a S&W chambered in 38 S&W. It was WWII surplus, which he bought after getting elected. I still have this gun. I shoot it occasionally, although ammo is getting hard to find. But it's a very mild round, very accurate.
Buffalo Bore makes a defensive round for it, and Remington has a special wheel gun load for it.
Today I was testing a Webley #5 revolver in 360 Rook. It is a similar round to the S &W. 160 gr SWC at 650 fps. An old time black powder round. I load it with Win 231. When I originally clocked it at 650 fps, I assumed it would just bounce off a target. Thanks to you, I now know this antique could be effective.
Depends on the target. At that speed it might bounce off a car door, but certainly not a person.
You're definitely right about the recoil, the gun didn't even move with the 32 S&W.
People can say what they want but I carry a H&R 732 Sidekick in .32 S&W Long because that's what I inherited. It came with a reloading setup and spare parts so that's my pocket gun.
I wouldn't call a 22 a bad option, but the trigger pull on a reliable 22 revolver is horrendous as you need heavier springs to be reliable. Interesting to see the 38 Short Colt get some love. I can attest to the 32 Short load achieving that sort of penetration. I had an Iver Johnson with a 3 inch barrel, running the same ammo you had at about 660 fps, getting about 18 inches or so in gel. Not a lot of damage, but more than deep enough to reach the critical systems and break them.
I would love someday to get into testing .22 LR/.22 mag etc. I used to have a 4" Ruger MK3 22/45 and I really regret getting rid of it, would have been perfect for testing. But if I recall you reviewed that Wrangler revolver and got good views on it, so that might be an option for me for testing ammo.
@@GunSam The Heritage Rough Rider with both cylinders would be a good, inexpensive way to test various .22 loads. You can get them in a number of barrel lengths and you can retro order the 22mag cylinder if you see a great buy on the 22lr only model. Fun guns and very inexpensive.
Very cool. I was out shooting my LCR 327 the other day, showing my son the different rounds it can fire. WIth the 327 being annoying to shoot, the 32 H&R feeling kind of proper in recoil, the 32 long I had were terribly inconsistent and the 32 short made us both laugh in how lite the recoil is. We were comparing it to a 22LR in recoil as you mention. I prefer the 32 H&R as far as self defense goes.
Thanks for doing so much with the versatility of the 327!
Thanks for watching. It was funny as you say. I wanted to mention on camera the truth that it felt like an empty case with no powder and no bullet, just felt like firing a primer. But I didn't want to come off cocky lol
32 acp... maybe in a Walther or a Beretta . Good load available in a Winchester Silvertip... Thanks for your work in bringing this to us !
I might try .32 ACP in the LCR at some point.
When there's panic buying, it's good to know that I can still run stuff no one else might want. I think I'll try some shorts in my 4" revolver. Might be a good alternative small game getter.
Good information. I was unaware of the caliber versatility you mentioned.
Thanks!
I need some .38 short Colt. That looks like a lot of fun to shoot!
After watching this I started carrying 32SW. Great round, sadly a rare one to find as well.
Look into rekoading my friend, a lee hand press is what i use and can reload all the time whenever or wherever i am.
@ I have 32 ACP dies which I hear do work but I really donno what else to buy.
@KingPhilipsRideshare i use the lee 32 sw short dies. You need a press if you dont have one yet. Brass , primers, projectiles and powder
Like to see how the 38 short colt compares against the 380 acp.
the usual .380 acp fires a 95 grain full metal jacket at 980 ft per second for a muzzle energy of 203 ft lbs, the .38 short colt shoots a 125 grain round nose bullet to an average of 107 ft lbs
Another great video. I just might have to get me a .327. Really liking the 32 family of rounds.
38super is another cartridge that can be used. In 357
That's not a good idea.
@@redcat9436why isn’t it?
It has less energy than a 357 and more energy than a 38 spec and fits the cylinder tighter than a 38 spec, the bullet is the same diameter as a 9mm which just happens to be made to fire from the same barrel as the 357/38 in some manufacturers revolvers (S&W, Ruger,Taurus, German made Korth, the German made Spohr) and the ejector will catch the semi flange on the shell casing to eject them!
357/38: .357 diameter bullet- 9mm/38super: .355 diameter bullet.
The .38 short definitely sounds like a fun round for plinking,especially for the wife who is somewhat recoil sensitive with her Airweight. Hopefully my favorite online supplier will have them back in stock soon.
They were fun to shoot. I'd love to experiment with 125 gr plated bullets, would have to up the powder charge a tad from normal .38 SC loads to overpower the increase in bore friction, but they would shoot cleaner than lead.
At first the raw chronograph numbers made me think "might as well throw rocks." The actual performance in test media made me re-think that. Still not my first choice for defensive carry, but I'd take either one of these over the .22 just for being centerfire. Good video!
The .38 Short Colt is very viable, but the .32 S&W is questionable. I once shot some 18 gauge aluminum sheeting with the .32 and it bounced off and flattened the bullets to pancakes. The reason is the old school .32 uses pure lead bullets, combine that with the low power and you aren't too far off from shooting marshmallows out of a nerf gun. The .32 S&W Long was a gigantic leap for the .32 S&W.
And to a point I made, if you watch the beginning you can see the .32 S&W has black bullets which indicate pure lead, as where the .38 Colt has grey bullets indicating other alloys to make it harder.
Both good points. Honestly, I didn't even know that the .38 Short Colt was compatible with .38 Spl revolvers. Maybe I had it confused with the .38 S&W?
I shoot a fair bit of .32 S&W Long through my .327 revolver and enjoy its accuracy, its low recoil, and the fact that I don't really have to go out of my way to find it. Not sure what use I'd have for .32 S&W, but it's a possibility to keep in the back of my mind nevertheless.
The chronograph tests combined with the penetration tests really got point across that these classic calibers can be effective for defense.
I would probably save the 32 shorts for small game but if I were caught in a defense situation with them loaded up I wouldn't panic just shoot for upper chest and or headshots.
You should try to get some ballon head antique black powder ammo in these calibers.. i've heard that they pack a lot more punch than modern smokeless equivalents.. not much study has been done on them. I read on smith and wesson forum that an old timer chronographed 2 different brands of .32S&W and got an average velocity of 740 for one brand and 820 for the other.
Awesome content! No one does this. Thanks man!
Even Taurus customer support and Remington aren’t aware of running .38 short colt through a .357 magnum revolver. They say they don’t recommend it, but each representative seemed unsure about my question on using the lesser cartridges. Is that Remington 125 grain RN wheel gun product? I can’t find .38 long colt yet.
Watched is for the third time. Learned that the 38 Short Colt is not the same as a 38 S&W. Surprised (again) at the penetration, even though the energy level is low. I just tested a 22 Mag derringer and the energy was about 120 ft lbs, more than the two loads you just tested. I would prefer the larger hole and good penetration over the 22mag.
Yeah .38 S&W is more or less a copy of the .38 Special just shaped different. The .38 Short Colt is way older and weaker.
Bullet diameter for 38 Smith and Wesson short is .361, bullet diameter for 38 special or 357 magnum is .357. Even though the 38 Smith and wasn’t short is a very low powered round, you could have Pressure issues shooting it through a 38 or 357 revolver.
There's a reason the .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W top break revolvers were vastly popular with our ancestors. Before everyone "knew" they were totally inadequate. The way the firearms press sneers at them now, you'd think anyone shot with one of those calibers not only showed no reaction, but actually experienced a general improvement in their overall condition. This is not accurate. .32 ACP, which is ballistically right there in the same neighborhood, was essentially the standard European police cartridge for roughly 80 years. Unfortunately most of the guns which chamber these rounds and are generally encountered now are the low cost pocket revolvers which have gross cylinder/barrel gaps that hamstring velocity. A quality revolver with a tight gap rather improves things. Even the little .22 Short is entirely capable of causing an extremely dangerous wound. They'll all do the job when used properly. I've gotten to fire a fair quantity of the original black powder loads, and they were surprisingly potent. Recoil of the .38 S&W cartridge in the Safety Hammerless model is rather sharp. Contrary to the current perception of uselessly low power.
7,65 mm was popular in Europe because military cartridges were forbidden on several countries except for the armed forces and the 7.65 mm was still weak enough to employ on regular blowback pistols that were easier and cheaper to manufacture than delayed blowback or short recoil guns. It had nothing to do with quality.
9 mm was still banned in Italy like two years ago.
Nice video Sam , good stuff 👏👏👍👍💪💪, stay safe 🙏🙏
Thank you.
Thanks for the .32 love
Thanks for a different perspective. I've shot 38 spcl. and 357 mag. my whole life. Stared shooting when I was 8 and I'll turn 60 this year. Well the long and the short of it is that I never gave much thought to shooting 38 colt.
it's an interesting cartridge for sure.
Very important, eye opening information to consider as options fir my daughter, since recoil on 38sp is difficult for her to control
I love to reload 32's you can really improve performance. Factory loads are anemic at best.
@cliff deal interesting watch. Made me think of the 40 and 357 sig coming from the 10mm. Also the 45 GAP. Would like to see if its possible to do the same with other rounds limiting burn space.
That's most likely due to them anticipating their usage in antique/vintage revolvers, potentially ones designed for black powder cartridges, so them keeping the pressure down to ensure safe operation means they have to reduce the velocity of the rounds.
That's really good shooting for a snub nose at 25 yards. I didn't think they made .38 Short Colt anymore.
Stil would LOVE to see some .22 mag testing.
Nice comparison. I’d love to shoot some with a .327 magnum. I’m really interested in the caliber for a Henry lever gun and a revolver. If it was available in the 3” LCRx I’d buy it with no question, but I don’t like the idea of DOA because I like the option, and this would not be a CCW, it’s just a range gun. Unfortunately it’s not a rental caliber at any range in my area, so anything people can post is of great interest to me right now. So thank you for your interest.
The 3" SP101 can come in .327 Mag as well as some GP100's.
Very impressive double action shooting. I was shocked at the penetration. Tells me I don't have to soup up my snubbie handloads.
Thanks
Interesting video. I'd never considered these cartridge, because I thought they were only theoretically available, not actually made and sold.
There's not a lot of them out there. I think pretty much Remington and Magtech make stuff like this.
Did a little search on ammoseek(dot)com:
.32 S&W Long:
Sellier and Bellot, Magtech, PPU, Aguila, Fiocchi (This is just the first of 4 pages of data).
.38 Short Colt:
Remington (short page, just 1 page of data)
Great video , I love the old 32 cartridges
I load 38 LC for my 51 navy conversion cylinder. With black powder it's a formidable round! Now if only I can find a way to conceal that seven and a half inch barrel!😅
I am going to go back and look for a 22 LR did in the Jug-Or-Not test.
I never tested .22 in the box, but I have in water jugs with no bologna pack.
Great simulations, and some damn fine shooting (the mic picked up the wind noise). You got another like and sub here bud 👍
Fine shooting with a snubby from 25.
Thanks
Yeah, actually your shooting looks like it may be getting better, or it tells you are are jerking with anything that doe recoil so need more grip control look at Vogel videos.
I would really like to see this test redone now that you’ve switched to using clear ballistics gel
I chronographed my great grandfathers 32 short revolver it averages 538fps but it really loud for such a weak round
The .32 acp will work in the .32 revolver also. Cartridge is semi rimmed and will extract.
Didn't work when I tried it. Misfires if it wasn't shot upward and also 200 FPS slower than in an actual .32 auto pistol.
Thanks for sharing!..I fire 32 s&w through my Ruger Single Seven and fire 38 short colt through my Colt Single Action Army..extremely light recoil..barely noticable..the Ruger Single Seven can also fire 32ACP...
Fun to see but I'm not changing out my 357's. Stay healthy my friend
We know it's because you're an expert shooter strong alpha male.
Don't be modest, say it.
Thanks for watching. I like light .357's myself.
@Beverly Mandahl A tacticool moron would have said you need 25 rounds in the compensated pistol + 4 other mags (one being in a second pistol with the exact same specs)..
I know 357 is potent. We all know. MPG1 might very well be joking. I know I am.
357 is potent but just not as practical as lots of people may think, even with practice, for defensive shooting. Terminal ballistics is only one part of defensive shooting.
I find it funny that some old cartridges were throwing .33 medium weight bullets at medium velocities, killing what needed to be killed..
9mm_MAKAROV killed a lot of people too.. That weak cartridge with a goofy looking round ball. Must be because the russians and their buddies trained to roll on the ground while shooting lol.
@Beverly Mandahl the 125 gr semi metal jacketed 357 has a 99% one shot incapacitaion. The second runner up is 45 ACP I believe its the 242 gr semi metal jacketed. Stay healthy and HANG ON
Great Video Sam, exelent information, keep them coming, God bless!
Thank you.
Great video! Thanks for making it.
Since more people probably have a 38 special revolver, looking for
38 short colt is going to be the most economical choice.
Also, there are more ammo choices for 38 special than for 32 S&W.
Incidentally, a 3 inch barrel might get more velocity out of these
low recoil loads. Small 3 inch barrel 38 revolvers are fairly easy to find.
.38 Special is more economical that .38 Short Colt to buy ammo, however reloading .38 Short Colt would cost less than .38 Special with the right bullets.
Found a great 38+P load that might be worth testing in the box - 140 XTP with a max load of Longshot (or even .1 higher if you want to hit closer to 18.5k PSI). I’d like to see the results out of a snub and 4 inch. Considering this gives some of the best velocity numbers you can extract from a +P, it should be the right prescription for a XTP
I don't happen to have long shot, but I do plan on testing hand loads for the first time in the Jug-or-Not with what I happen to have the most on hand of. I have a lot of Titegroup and already ordered 125 gr XTP's. I plan decent .38+P's in a snubby and low end .357 Mag in my 4" 686. What I have gotten in the past with these loads is about 900 FPS in the snubby with .38 Special+P and a modest 1,200 FPS with my 4" .357 loads. Once powder and primers become more available to me I may test your suggestions.
Oh yeah primers....I’m waiting on those too. Thanks!
@@missouriaviator8871 I hear ya. Ordered bullets and primers, store claimed primers were in order, then recanted saying shipping in a week or two. So I have no primers, but will have bullets.
@@GunSam I bought a few hundred one day while Academy still had the entire section stocked. Came back a couple days later and none left and none in the supply chain. Half the year I'm living near MidwayUSA and pick up all my reloading stuff there same day with no shipping; I feel completely spoiled.
Might also mention that I've already done a .2 gr above max with Longshot in a 442. Pretty stout but no chronograph data. 4-5 inch group offhand at 25 yards with POI just 2-3 inches high. I'd really hope to sling that 140 gr close to 925 fps considering the book lists 1125 ish from a 7.7 inch with .2 gr less powder than my "above max" load. Makes me wonder how BB gets 158 grain pills moving 1000 fps from a snub unless they subscribe to a 20-21k max pressure.
@@missouriaviator8871 That's cool to live near Midwayusa. I live near a store called Jay's sporting goods and it's basically like a Cabela's but 3 times bigger with more stuff, local "chain" with just 2 stores in existence. They have a LOT of reloading supplies, so I know how being spoiled is. I ordered only 700 primers a mix of sm and sm magnum and paid $20 for hazmat. Blah. I'm used to $33 for 1,000 and walk out the door!
Definitely an off-beat demonstration to do, but one that deserved being done. I really enjoy you looking at the .32 revolver cartridges, which though admittedly not elephant guns, can find a use.
What this demonstration does is demolish comments like, "The .32s bounce off winter clothing" or "The .32s are useless beyond 3 yards." If the tiny .32 S&W will go through fiberboard, it'll definitely go through a parka -- or, worst case, other bony structures.
I tried to penetrate a piece of that board with a phillips screwdriver with it against a cement floor. Hard as swing as possible and it went only halfway through. It's tougher than 1/2" plywood even at 1/4".
@@GunSam It's interesting that just about any caliber will blow right through the fiberboard, even .32 S&W or a .25 acp.
If you haven't already (I'm guessing you have), check out this video, Paul Harrell shooting .22 Shorts out of a 3" revolver and a rifle. He shoots through soda bottles, clothes, even soup cans.
ua-cam.com/video/C3fPH31Yszo/v-deo.html
@@GunSam These loads are not just good for the very old or very young or physically challenged shooters needing a self-defense round. Another application of these "low recoil" rounds would be in single shot or over/under derringers. There are a lot of those guns out there, and they are extremely difficult to shoot (I won't even qualify that by saying "to shoot _well_ .").
I have a tiny .32 ACP over/under derringer and it kicks far worse than any other gun I own (including a .44, a Taurus .44 snubbie, .45 autos and stout loaded .45 Colts). It's the only gun I've ever had that opened a gash on my knuckle.
A reduced load in _any_ derringer would go a long way to make it a much more useful firearm.
I like to think I know a lot about guns and ballistics. I would have bet the 38 Short would have done 2 jugs - max. That test also emulates the 38 S&W round. I have never given that round any credibility. Thank you.
I'd like to see a 22 caliber magnum thrown into the mix for comparison (s).
Someday, but I don't know a .22 at the moment. It's always difficult to really get the best tests with .22, but if I had to test it i'd say a 4" revolver or 4" pistol would be the best size to get enough velocity to be effective.
I am becoming more convinced that momentum and SD (or maybe TKO) are better measures of a load's effectiveness than energy at least at handgun velocities.
For example an 88gr .312 bullet at 500fps has the same momentum as a 40gr .223 at 1100fps and a slightly better SD but about half the energy. It would be interesting to see that correlated with Jug-Or-Not results. But my guess is that one would find the .32 short load described above just as effective as the .22lr load above. I really don't think the .22 would drastically outperform the .32 as the energy figures might imply.
We simply must have a video to test this hypothesis. :D
Bright sunshine today.
The camera wasn't set to the right setting either. Of course I couldn't tell until after filming.
Thanks for making these videos. Before I started watching them, I thought the LCR was plastic junk. Now I realize it's a quality gun and I'm looking to get one in 327 Fed. Since I reload, I shouldn't have an ammo availability problem. Too bad they don't make moon clips for 32 acp.
They seem like a pretty good revolver, and the .327 Federal version in a steel frame and barrel, so it's solid.
The 32ACP has a rim. It shoots just fine in a revolver. However, it is much higher pressure than a 32 S&W (short), so don't shoot in one, even though it fits.
On the topic of mouse guns wouldn't it be fun to put the 19th Century mouse up against the Jug-or-Not? Would love to see how the 1863 Remington 31 Pocket does with a cylinder full of fffg. Could try round ball and conical just for giggles.
Bought a .32 long for $50 at a pawn shop finally found ammo for it excited to try it out
Be careful of old sw top break revolvers
@@greybone777 it's a push pin
Thanks for clearing that up
Thanks for watching!
Thank you, you have answered so many questions on guns & calibers for me. But, when does one realize that driving their 500 hp Mustang to the store to pick up wood, when driving their truck would have done just fine?
I use that some reference often. Like A Corvette can do 150 but a minivan 90, but you're both going to grocery store at 55, and when you get there which one is more practical? I typically reference this with like 15+1 autos vs 6 shot revolvers, because 3 shots is the average shots ever needed.
Helluva a lot better accuracy than the ole Iver Johnson wheely with the .32S&W
Hey who knows
I just don't see any reason to buy a lot of .32S&W (short) since it's
(1) rather anemic
(2) costs more than .32S&W Long
(3) only the ancient top breaks are chambered in .32S&W.
(4) The more modern (non top break) Colt, Smith and Wesson and H&R revolvers are chambered in .32S&W Long...and can shoot the shorter cartridge as well.
But the .32S&W Long does not have much more recoil than the .32S&W Short...so if someone is wanting to use a low recoil round, the cheaper, more powerful S&W Long is the way to go.
Really, the comparison should have been .38 Short Colt to .32 S&W Long. Both have been military or police "issue" calibers. I don't know of any military or police that used .32S&W (short) as the caliber for their service revolvers.
I only use .32S&W (short) when I dispatch a farm animal. I get it 'dirt cheap' sometimes at estate sales or when I buy an old revolver and the ammo comes with it.
Otherwise, I see no reason to purchase .32S&W (short).
I don't know why the .32 shorts cost almost twice as much as the .32 S&W longs, and as much as the .327 federal magnums.
Just has to do with the production of ammunition. Just judging by availability you can see that in .32 caliber revolver cartridges, the .32 S&W Long is the most produced and popular. So they run a bunch of it which cuts costs. Stuff like .32 S&W is run less, so it costs more man hours to setup to run what they will make no profit on, UNLESS they mark up the price.
Great vid. Thanks.
Thank you.
I almost exclusively shoot .32 S&W out of my carry gun since it's so cheap whereas H&R or Federal Magnum where more than 50 cents around BEFORE the Beer Plague
.32 H&R is hard to find, .327 nearly as hard to find. But generally anywhere I go I can find .32 S&W Long but regular .32 S&W I have a hard time finding.
I was thinking about .38 short colt in moon clips for my R8. The .38 special are just too long to get a quick reload.