"Mining iron on the moon isn't this fun?" Yes. Let me mine. I wanna mine. You say there's no need to mine but have you seen how much iron I could mine? Don't touch that system, it's there for me!
@1:35:36 jeffm says "reader" in reference to the patreon commenter. Just a subtle reminder at the massive legacy and good times at gameinformer. Anyone else notice?
@podbod25 gaming magazine Jeff M and Hanson (and kyle and leo) used to work at. It was also where Haley and Jacob Geller interned! (In the same intern group as Leo, who was later hired full time as video editor). #minnmaxlore
Ok but FR Starfield not gelling with Janet confirms I'll love the game because our tastes are polar opposite. So her review actually has me more excited.
Geniunely this is a super valid response and I have several folks that I use similarly for movies and games. Glad to be of service. Tell me the last game that didn't click with you and we can see if it works in both directions
@@Gameonysus well recently, I really tried to get into Persona 5? Didn't work at all no matter what I tried. I know I will not like Armored Core. I know both these games are definitely well made games. On top I do assume we have very little overlap when it comes to our game libraries as much as I've known from watching the podcast because even the mutual, popular stuff that gets the intermittent commentary, I feel like our pros and cons are often flipped. The stuff you find insufferable is sometimes a very much valued part of the experience for me and vice versa.
@@319badhass I literaly opened this comment with "geniunely" for this reason and you still think im being sarcastic so at this point I dont know what to do.
@@khs511 That's so funny because ive been waiting forever to check out Persona 5. Def worried it wont be for me but this gives me more hope lol Armored core idk where I land yet but liking it so far! And absolutely there are a lot of well made games I dont like either. And those are the ones I just don't talk about. Maybe people assume I just didnt get to the game?? But there are many codes and things I pass on because I dont think I have a meaningful input for them (fighting games, hardcore FPS, and other titles that just arent my wheelhouse). But absolutely, the anti-taste maker is just as good as the taste-maker in terms of making it meaningful for you.
The comments are already spicy here lol. People want to have their hype pay off which is natural, even if the game doesn’t fully deliver for everyone. I think starting with the positives about a big game may be a better path, then the criticisms are easier to put in perspective and swallow. JeffM was all prepared to talk about how much he was enjoying it, but it seems like instead he had to start off saying “I like it but…” to play off of all the criticisms that had just been stated
A lot of the reviews talk about the negatives in the context of a game that can give hundreds of hours of enjoyment. If you can get over them, there is a great game here.
I like listening to this podcast about random games, but absolutely hate hearing them discuss games for which I am actually excited. Bethesda games are not made for the review cycle of game journalists. The same goes for a lot of other huge open world games. Look at Jeff M's opinion of Horizon series. He hated/disliked them on release when he was busy, loved them when he got to play it on his own time and pace with his wife. Maybe I'll go back and listen to the segment after I've played the game, but I had to stop listening to avoid filtering my opinion through nitpicks and weird expectations. Still enjoy the show, still enjoy the whole team.
Having a tough time taking Janet’s take on this game seriously… beat the game in 40 hours and spent a day doing side quest? That’s now how these games are structured. But then again, it is her experience. And she can only come from it from that POV
Would be curious to know if Janet enjoyed Bethesda's previous open-world RPGs or not, because the vibe I'm getting off her impressions is she just doesn't jive with the kind of open-ended design typical of their games all that well. Oh, and that their UI navigation isn't the best, but that's like beating a dead horse at this point! Otherwise, Starfield looks be another excellent example of their kind of free-form exploratory RPG based on everything I've seen or heard of it so far, and the fact no technical challenges were mentioned at all in these group impressions is a far cry from their usual releases, so that bodes well. Looking forward to playing it on the 6th.
I got to the franchise late so I havent finished any yet but what I played of Fallout 3 I really enjoyed. Much like Jenna I loved the world and how it pulls from American culture. The music is a total obsession. That was back in 2016 and then in 2020 I started Fallout 4 cause I wanted to go back and was recommended 4 over 3 by someone. Also a good time and I really enjoyed the designing stuff in that one (which i know some didnt like). Both times I just stopped because i got busy with other things. My biggest gripe with Starfield is I just felt like the things I did were repetitive and not that interesting in terms of narrative, drama, or general events. There is definitely good stuff in the game but the main quest didnt hit and despite doing a lot of sidequests and odd jobs I didnt do any that spoke to me. Online ive seen some cool side quests surfacing so yeah! Im sure there are cool things but in 44 hours I didnt encounter many. So if its like well you gotta put MORE time in Im personally good because I dont feel i got enough out of my 44 hours to justify continuing further. Like, i didnt have enough fun in my 44 hour journey to pursue more hypotentical/potential fun. Hope you end up clicking with it!
@@shambolic8539It's comments like this that convinced me ravenous fanboys think that being negative or critical = bad. Why do you need to hear about factions? BGS has been doing factions for a long time, they're basically the same, they don't meet the peak of New Vegas, why discuss it? it's like going to a WWE game review and demanding they tell you if you can body slam someone We know the shooting isnt fun its BGS game, we know how the factions work its BGS game, how much discussion do you want to happen from "Yeah you board a ship 5 enemies will vaguely shout while taking ten seconds to fumble around and miss you before dying in one gunshot" We become skyrim stealth snipers faster than ever, everyone dies in two hits
@@shambolic8539 stay mad, seethe etc that this woman has finished a game you haven't touched and came away with some criticism instead of "yeah it shoots like fallout, poorly"
I read your message and I said it cant be that bad 21 mins in I said no forget this. They are small spoilers but I still want those things to be kept secret. I saw the xcast on Kinda Funny and they did a much better job with this. I just skipped the Starfield section
Really appreciated Jenna’s insight on starfield as a fallout fan. I love walking across my map to an objective and running into interesting stuff to get lost in on the way. Sounds like starfield is less of this and a lot more fast travel.
While I enjoyed yhe Starfield discussion, I have to admit some of the critiques felt very nit-picky. Like, i dont want a gun to auto-switch when i run out if ammo. At what point is the game playing itself? Personally i don't like excessive signposting. Learning the game is part of the experience for me. IDK, just seems like some of the expectations were asking for a not Betheada game.
dismissing other people's criticisms as "nitpicking" is basically admitting that what they said is true, but it's not an issue for you. Okay, but it might be an issue for other people. Don't be so dismissive of other peoples' experiences.
@@VoltaDoMar I simply stated that I don't agree with some of the rationale behind their critique. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as they are to theirs. Take it easy.
It's because it's an Xbox exclusive, and I'm not even joking. I don't even have an Xbox but it's very clear a lot of 'critics' and online gaming personalities have an axe to grind with all things Xbox.
@@VoltaDoMar i think the initial comment meant that this game has such scale and scope that to focus on one or two very specific minor issues just lack some proportionality.
Perfect game length can't even be based in genre imo. My playtime for Persona 5 was 110 hours and for Undertale it was 6 hours, both RPGs and both felt like the ideal length for me! All depends on the kind of experience the developers are going for.
Indie game made by one person and a triple a game made by hundreds… No way is there a problem with being too reductive with your reasoning to take all scope and perspective out of consideration. You are way too smart for that ;) Yeah no way does your super brain think in terms of buzzfeed articles
I played Marvel's Avengers for 800 hours and the next longest is probably Dragon Age: Inquisition...at 70 hours! Didn't enjoy Avengers as much at the height of it, but certainly still love that beat-em-up feeling. Helps me relate to BGS fans a lot more.
I guess some people just don’t acclimate to Bethesda games too well. Janet is very loud in her negative approach. She goes into it expecting it to be a certain thing & when it’s not what she wanted it to be it’s negative. Go into it open, maybe.
I think Starfield is revealing what gamers want to be served their gameplay or "wow moments" and which gamers want to make their own stories or role play. Bethesda made the game with the latter in mind, and some people failed to comprehend that.
@@michaelp.3485 They are very different games that are set in different worlds. Your roleplaying experience will be completely different. I'm glad both games exist.
I wish I had 4 hands...So I could give this episode 4 thumbs up! I don't know why, but there is always something special about a Janet/JeffM episode for me. I really liked both of their GALOT. That cookbook and that non-profit got me excited. Also, please keep bring Jenna back. She is a great addition to the podcast.
I swear people just want these games to play themselves these days... Like just go watch movies or TV and provide commentary on that if you don't want to experience player input driven media. Good Lord...
@@palepilgrim1174 Geez it's alright to miss something that's common in other similar vein. It would be great if something like this is a little toggle in the gameplay options menu and maybe they will patch it in when considering player feedback. It's just like how lots of games used to, and to an extent, still have options to invert Y-Axis on gamepad sticks. Some people have other preferences to how natural it feels to control certain types of games
The favorite robot question made me think a bit, and I think if I had to choose I would go with ED-E from New Vegas. i loved having that little guy follow me around and his theme playing every time we entered combat.
Great episode. Ben, my only ask as a long time listener is to PLEASE announce some sort of spoiler tag prior to discussing a new release. I was under the impression that the team would be discussing how they felt about the game with light spoilers. So far, I’ve learned that there’s a fallout planet, you can have a home/mortgage, and other things I prefer to discover myself. I think there’s a way to talk about the principles of a thing without being specific, ACG’s review is a great example of this.
@@Gameonysus First time listener following the Starfield coverage. Your opinion would have probably saved me a few hours navigating BGS fans, but as you said, it pushes your conceptions of fun and worth to the brink lol. Thanks for replying, you stole the show but in a respectful way and I can see the love for your fellow hosts. Consider me a brand new...ADORING FAN!
Armored Core 6 is a game that gets you into the zone so fast. I feel like as soon as I boot it up im all in. I would say there is a steep learning curve that I'm still picking up on my own, trying real hard not look up guides, but small things like the auto lock for shoot and the tracking/dash when it comes to melee threw me off for like a few hours LOL. Picking up on those things has felt great, kinda reminds me of Sifu when it comes to picking up the mechanics
@dcsoda1 i get the frustration but i would call it "gamification" theres plenty of other titles that give you a title but its not literally the title but a gamification to justify a certain skill boost. Bethesda never out right said choosing chef means being a chef, but the gamers took it that way. This is not new for Bethesda. Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.
Choosing Artisan Guild or Urchin in your BG3 character creation literally equates to like 5-10 dialogue options over the game, maybe you're already familiar with the local gangs or maybe your religious background lets you recgonise a statue It's such a minor thing its shocking Bethesda can't do that
Completely agree with Janet on Starfield. I'm enjoying it because of the familiar Bethesda structure, but it is just 'fine'. There are some really dull systems and plenty of those systems aren't explained well or given much meaning.
I think it's a pretty safe bet she doesn't, along with a hell of a lot of other video game critics and journalists and personalities. They force themeselves to play through games like this to spew out a review or 'have an opinion on a hot new game'. Then their opinions/reviews totally belie that they don't actually play these kinds of games and don't understand their function or appeal. So they end up dabbing on a bunch of core systems and features that the fans of these games adore. It's a sad state of affairs, really.
The more games a person plays, the higher their standard becomes. It’s difficult to praise a $70+ AAA title with wide-yet-shallow features, when said features have been more fully and creatively explored elsewhere, often for a fraction of the cost. I think a lot of people are going to be upset once they realize that Starfield doesn’t have interplanetary space travel. It’s all menus and loading screens. Planets are essentially 2D assets and part of the skybox, while planet surfaces expand finitely with stark boundaries.
@@palepilgrim1174 Pardon? Players cannot land on planet surfaces or fly between planets without navigating menus and initiating load screens, nor can players traverse around without hitting environmental boundaries. Am I mistaken? Because there’s plenty of video evidence documenting all of this.
@@jonathanbairdwhat frustrated me was that at the time this was uploaded people who had not played or were very early in were not allowing someone who had played the game to completion to have their own opinion.
Janet's "It's something to do" is one the most glib and cynical and self-satisfied things I've heard in game journalism. It might be a middling game, but it's also a remarkable technical and artistic work created by hundreds of well meaning people.... What's tougher? Making any game or talking crap on the internet?
It's clearly not their passion. It's clearly not what they want to be doing in life or critiquing. But it's a paycheck. I think that is a shockingly high percentage of video game critics and personalities. Video games are player input driven media. They thrive on player interaction and impact on the world and its inhabitants. More and more I'm just seeing critics lambast these core aspects of video games in favor of interactive buttonprompt cutscene 'gameplay'. Starfield will sell well. It will have high engagement. It will have long legs and lifespan. It will be a game for the gamers. The core, oldschool Bethesda fanbase. The ones who loved Oblivion etc. But that won't appeal to critics who want voiced protagonists in every game (even games they are an active detriment in), autoswitching weapons, automovement and a ton of other restrictions on player input.
"What's tougher? Making any game or talking crap on the internet?" - is nobody allowed to criticize a game now? what about Cyberpunk on launch? was that ok because it was "created by hundreds of well meaning people"?
@Magic7ball it's people who can't think outside of "woman hate game" Incentive is a HUGE pull for open worlds. I had to make goals for myself in most of them, or else I just aimlessly explore and get bored after a while. It's weird to see so many, let's be real here, idiotic comments towards Janet.
what a strange comment, I think putting it in the Farcry/Borderlands catagory is a great place for bethesda to be going forward, I know farcry isnt amazing or fresh, but its a fun weekend game for $20 on sale for sure, and now Bethesda is in that nook, it's good nook to be in but they're doing nothing unique, everything they're attempting has been done better by other games the last 10 years. They're behind the ball, their space travel, space combat, dialogue , characters and game systems have been surpassed while they stayed making Oblivion over and over and over
I see the flaws but nonetheless have been loving the game. Main story is good so far, hasn't been my focus. The faction mission lines are great, I'm in deep to the ship building. My favorite part has been the romance, the pacing sucks and the only pay of is a 15% xp boost(when you sleep instead of 10%) when you are adventuring with your partner. Some of the most memorable moments I've had are jumping into a systems and going to a point of interest in space and seeing what happens a few favorites include Juno, ghost ship and colony ship.
1:37:17 That we live at a point where people think their film appreciation goes up the LESS they know confirms to me that we have an audience of movie goers who see film as service, as killing time, not as art. So, I've brought this movie up before (and you can blame Spooky Rice for it being on my mind again recently) but I'm a fan of the flick Irreversible, I think it's superb. Knowing the behind the scenes of how that flick was put together makes it WAY better than if you sit down to watch it like any other flick (which you should NOT do, I will not be responsible for the outcome). Who SHOULD watch Irreversible? It lives at the intersection of Passion of the Christ and Requiem for a Dream, so if you like those films then you should absolutely watch Irreversible --- make it a movie marathon starting with Passion, moving on to Requiem, and ending with Irreversible, that should put you in the right head space. Also, DO familiarize yourself with the behind the scenes, Irreversible represents incredible filmmaking with a TON of digital manipulation not unlike how Children of Men was made.
As a Playstation/Switch only game person who had fun with previous Bethesda games and would probably have paid full price for Starfield if it was on PS- My take after seeing these reviews is: No way do I feel FOMO or a need to buy and xbox or PC for this one game- BUT I might sign up for a month of xcloud when game season dries up and give it a go. But considering my current feast of games released, releasing or soon to release- it'll take a long while before I get to it. Either way I think Bethesda fans are gonna have a blast- but folks looking for the next big thing are gonna look elsewhere.
Gotta love when people like Janet nit pick the hell out of a game like Starfield, a new IP that actually is trying ambitious new things. Meanwhile, the next Pokémon game will come out, score an 8 or 9 on sites like IGN, and all shortcomings will be forgiven. The same recycled garbage they send out every year despite being technical disasters. The double standard is hilarious. Starfield isn't perfect, but at least they're trying something new. Gamers should celebrate it instead of wanting games to fail. The discourse on this game has been really depressing, and exposed a lot of the same console war bullshit that has only gotten worse. My advice? Just play the game for yourself, don't limit yourself to one person's opinion.
It's genuinely so depressing. I felt a very similar way with Death Stranding. Incredible game. Ambitious. Mindblowing. Highly appealing to me (and I don't even own a PlayStation so there you go, I am 100% not a fanboy and can acknowledge incredible works of art for the 'other team'). And seeing some of the criticisms of that, from 'professional journalists'... just absolutely souldestroying. If these people had their way, every game would be the same halfbaked Unreal Engine with light RPG elements and openworld checkboxes and the same voice actors and the same soundtracks and the same storylines and characters and the same goddamn everything... Enough is enough. This industry is NOT Hollywood. But it is fast becoming it, in large part thinks to the 'critical elite'.
Are they “trying something new”? As someone who plays a lot of indie titles, I’m not so sure. I’m with you on the “wanting games to fail” bit, though Todd and Bethesda have made enough overhyped statements that I understand why gamers would be weary and critical from the start. I genuinely hope that people have a great time with Starfield. The exploration is just a bit too shallow and “been there, done that” for my own tastes.
Target recently held an all hands meeting in which they announced they would be removing any pride themed events or products as well as heritage events and merchandise (I.e. black history month).
The shock over starfields story being 20ish hours is weird, Skyrims main story is like six hours at best. I get Hansons impressed with the 'they know their space blahblah' but given the last 10 years worth of space exploration we've had it really feels like Starfields falls flat from traversal to combat
Thanks for the warning. I was enjoying the podcast, but I don't see a point where spoilers for Deadpool 3 without warning would be appropriate. Guess I'll skip the rest until I've seen that movie.
I respect all these opinions. But Janet herself says she main lined the quest, and somehow had to grind levels to what I assume is a later mission requirement. I can’t imagine hitting late game and still being level 13. I feel like only playing main mission is missing the point of the game, which is why she’s hating it so much.
I was level 13 like the first day or two I played and that's when I had to grind. I said I mostly did the campaign but did 10 - 20 hours of side content. The HLTB on Starfield is 20 hours if you main line and I beat the game after 44 hours. I ended the game at like level 30 or level 40. Not sure cause I dont feel like booting it up to see but one of my late files was level 30 for sure. I dont want to misrepresent my experience because I know some folks who will put many more hours in and thus play more side content than main content (thats not me) but idk why my 10-20 hours of side content just doesnt count to people
I love that you got both extremes of the Starfield opinion here, because it's such a conflicting game for me because I agree with everything Jeffm and Ben said as well as what Janet said. On one hand you're in awe at the crackle of a ship, watching pirate ships warp away in fear of the sight of your ship and fascinated walking through a museum colony. On the other you're dumping five magazines into a level 30 sponge with no risk of death, walking around for 20 min finding that one animal to finish your planet survey and trying to get through a quest without minimal completion options by shooting the fairly evil NPC only to find they're programmed to be invincible. It's great exploring a fairly fleshed out rendition of an Expanse-like low sci-fi world with surprisingly deep world-building, but god does that make the lows hit hard.
calling it a "review" after only having 9 hours in a Bethesda game? you might as well drive 1 car and call it a review of a Forza game... why not title the video "first impressions"???
1:42:47 I think that Bicentennial Man is a SUPERB film, 10/10, please watch it. It is an epic life journey akin to Forrest Gump. Also see What Dreams May Come, Mrs. Doubtfire, and The Postman (1997).
Yeah yeah yeah, Starfield and Armored Core, who cares, but Jenna! Super excited to see her pop up again already! She's just such a god dang delight whenever she's around.
Oh, btw, I think this game won't truly come alive till the mods start getting out there. That will bring some fun, colour and variety that appears to be missing from the game according to the reviews so far. I hope these are fully supported on the Xbox like they have been with the previous games.
The point Janet points to about the lack of incentivization really highlights this flaw in a lot of (meaningless) open worlds. I have a life outside of videogames. Why the hell do I care about building a house or playing this one time-consuming mini game if it doesn’t ultimately serve anything from a holistic perspective? Again, I can do actual shit in real life. This is what I love about FromSoft’s games. They force you to utilize all mechanics. BG3 and Armored Core, more recently, do the same. Make me actually interested and incentivized to do this random, time-consuming, “oh-so-creative” shit…
I don't think it should be considered an objective flaw, some people love doing that stuff, even if it doesn't produce meaningful rewards. For some people it's fun working towards your own goals, the pursuit in itself is the reward. Regardless of how pointless it may seem to others
Thinskinned Janet is now screenshotting comments from this thread and "totally not willing her fans to fight trolls (AKA critics of her criticism)". I mean she blurred the usernames out to give her "oh please don't attack them for me" schtick, but the comments are pretty easy to find since we all know it's the Starfield Minnmax review. Hey, Janet, for future reference, you don't need to block out my username when you're trying to get your Twitter sycophants to dogpile me. I'm not perpetually thinskinned, like you. Truly astounding to me that a 'professional critic' would take criticisms of her critiques (which she's paid to give publicly) so personally.
Thre's something so funny about you hating me for hating a game because you hate me SOOOOO much. I haven't seen someone as obsessive as you for a while like, you're 1 step away from going on Reddit and writing a manifesto. Like, you have to see that it's silly to be so mad about this don't you?
@@Gameonysus Like I’ve said numerous times, I don’t have any personal issues with you. I have only ever criticized your lame, substanceless, vapid critiques of Starfield in this video. Which you’re paid to give publicly, opening your criticisms up to criticism from others. That’s how voicing opinions works. People can disagree with you and point out the things you’re saying don’t make sense or belie a misunderstanding of the thing you’re attempting to criticize. I’ve kept that specifically to this comment thread on the video you spoke in. I didn’t decide to screenshot your comments and post them to my social media, like you did with me, for whatever reason. I also don’t know why you keep trying to twist this into me personally attacking you or harassing or trolling you when I’m just calmly criticizing your own output (your critique). Are you harassing and trolling and attacking Bethesda developers for criticizing their output (Starfield)? What kind of sense does that even make. But still you continue with this angle. I’ve kept things very civil, Janet. I’ve been articulate and levelheaded and focused in my criticisms of your criticisms of Starfield. Which is more than I can say for your, frankly, awful take on Starfield. I think you’ve shown yourself to be incredibly unprofessional, thinskinned and petulant in the way you’ve responded to me (and others) criticizing your criticisms in this comment thread. In future try to analyze games from a less emotional and subjective, and lazy, position. You not liking specific types of games or features of games or systems in games does not make them bad. It’s about the design and execution, not whether you personally enjoyed them or not. I can’t stand turnbased combat or click to move gameplay or not being in control of the camera but I wouldn’t say Baldur’s Gate 3 is a bad game because CRPGs just aren’t designed for me. Anyway, I’ve said all I need to say on this matter.
the visor that guy wears in the bethesda video playing just kills me. I haven't seen anyone wear those things in a really long time cuz they're absurd IMO 45:06
1:59:39 sorry Kyle, but those rules aren't true. Teams just keep playing OT normally until someone scores! Officiating with multiple pucks would be so difficult hahaha
I love Janet, I feel like the way she plays and thinks about games is so relatable, I always want to hear her opinions. and I'm thankful that she's here as a foil for some of the other more hot takes.
Darn it Kyle, you and your spoilers! Even if it is small ( Fal#$% world ) you also were the only person to spoil a certain big One piece characters death :/ in a gaming podcast which I never expected.
If the enjoyment can be spoiled by knowing of its existence, I can't imagine it was very enjoyable to begin with. Not to mention this is a show about game discussion, and people make it almost impossible to do their jobs. If you are so concerned with spoilers I suggest you restrict what you watch, but you are also dictating to others how they should discuss games. no hard feelings though, I do enjoy seeing what others think.
Similar to you Prisoner was one of the first movies I watched where I realized the extra connection being a parent has to certain characters and types of stories
Shocked, Shocked I say that Janet Playstation Garcia doesn't like Starfield that much and is the loudest and monopolizes most of the segment. Would have loved to hear more from Jeff M.
Sounds like a lot of the gangs complaints about Starfield are just complaints about the modern Fallout and Elder Scrolls games. I guess the criticism there is Bethesda should have evolved those quality of life quirks by now, but a lot of the time they commented on them as if they are new things when theyve been around in Bethesda games for years now and fans of their games are used to them. Stuff like the favorites system, the menus, the inventory, etc.
"modern bethesda" is doing a lot of the work there, Fallout 4 was in 2015, 8 years ago, it should be expected that one of the biggest and best developers in the world, let a lone a developer whos been making this exact game for 15+ years should have come back with massive changes and improvements to the formula, not six steps back all over the place and keeping pace with itself in others. I agree the conversation can sound like people talking about it being a 'new thing' but the last game came out when 28 year olds were 20 years old, 15 year olds were 7 years old, it is basically new to most people who played fallout once and never thought about it again while playing 641545 games in between It felt like there was more evolution between Oblivion>Fallout 3>Skyrim>Fallout New Vegas>Fallout 4 and Fallout 4>76>Starfield in the same time frame
@@ChichiNaka I just said modern to differentiate from the older ones. Not meaning they are state of the art in any sense. My criticism is that minnmax acted like they had never seen these problems before when they have been present in every modern Bethesda game. The criticism should be that they haven’t improved it. Not incredulity that it exists at all.
I can't seem to decide if I want to buy Starfield or not. On one hand I love BGS games, but on the other hand these reviews are not very promising. They all seem to bring up the same flaws, too. The UI sucks, planets outside of the few main hub locations are copy/paste asset groupings, the mainline narrative isn't very compelling, and the fast travel/loading screens are intrusive and kill the feeling of exploration.... I feel like all four of those would really bother me. Sure, I could sub to Game Pass for a month but that just feels like a waste of $16 because I won't really use it. If anyone else that was skeptical has played the game and has an opinion I would appreciate it.
If you like other Bethesda games you're more than likely going to like this. Reviews honestly have not been that bad overall unless you consider anything sub 90 to be terrible? anyway you probably already decided either way at this point haha
@JRDELM8R a different team made FO76 so not sure what your point is there. Starfield is currently sitting at an 88 on Metacritic, so I don't think this is the failure, so many are making it out to be.
Sites like Eurogamer are currently receiving a lot of 'Capital-G' gamer vitriol for using a five-point system. Their three- and four-star reviews have a large impact on the almighty aggregate. Better would be to abolish scores completely. The larger gaming community would do well to read and process opinion instead of beating off to Metacritic.
@jonathanbaird i don't mind getting rid of scores as well. I just hate when people say "7 out of 10" might as well say "i cant decide if its average or above average". Average and above average are pretty different to me so i dont understand why you cant commit to one. Bite the bullet!
@@jonathanbaird It's so fucking weird that 'gamers' care about theaggregate score of a video game lmao why are we devolving into kpop stan 13 year old culture
@@shambolic8539 Not sure how you read anything parasocial in my comment, but sure go off. The fact is that Janet has played 40+ hours of Starfield and isn't alone in her criticism. You and Scottyben191, on the other hand, haven't played a single hour (?) yet are quite reactive to dissenting opinion.
I think more critics and game personalities need to start acknowledging the difference between 'I'm simply not vibing on this game' or 'I personally am not enjoying this game right now' and 'this game is objectively, mechanically bad' or flawed in some other more grounded measure of quality. Way too many reviewers are injecting their feelings into reviews and what you get is stuff like this. I've played great games in the past and just not felt them at the time for a whole variety of reasons. Sometimes I was depressed. Sometimes I was burned out on video games or that specific theme in media. I don't pretend those games are bad just because I wasn't feeling them at the time I played them.
I think the show was good. I just think several of the "criticisms" were completely without substance, nitpicky or hypocritical. But this is a problem with several big reviewers as well. And other established critics have even commented on some of these 7/10s and "criticisms". Which I don't think I've ever seen before in gaming. Other critics literally criticizing the low scores given by certain outlets. Something is up.
Starfield being another 7/10 'just a bethesda game' is the most predictable moment in history, it was shocking how out of control peoples hype levels got the last few weeks
@@Philpot1992 Sure?, Janet said 7 maybe a 6, and that's about where I'm landing after today as well? I didn't even mention IGN I said "Starfield being another 7/10 'just a bethesda game' is the most predictable moment in history," I'm not sure I've watched an IGN video since 2011
@ChichiNaka sorry wasn't meant to sound bitchy, a lot of people have saod the exact same thing about IGN. They famously gave it 7 despite loving it enough to make loads of videos. Janet saod a lot of incorrect things in this video so I'll take the opinionated bits with a pinch of salt too. I've stayed away from the hype so far as so can't comment on that. One of the benefits of being an adult I suppose lol.
Hype was deservedly high. Nobody who already didn't like bethesda games shouldve expected to enjoy starfield. The people this game is for, they will love it
@@temperythm I should be in the opposite camp though, I accept Bethesda games are as wide as the ocean and as shallow as a puddle, Fallout 4s writing was awful, its rpg systems were awful, my max intelligence, max cybernetics/robotics character who travelled with a synth detective from the 1950s for dozens of hours was still like "HUH A SYNTH WTF IS A SYNTH YOU'RE A R-R-R-R-R-R-OBOT!?!?!?! towards the end of the game. But I still found some fun with it, especially when survival mode came in (lacking in starfield) and Far Harbor was like 13 steps towards New Vegas in terms of writing and choice. But to have these enemies just fall over, to be the big bad space pirate, board and enemy ship and have 5 bethesda ass skyrim enemies die in one hit while shooting me twice total is so deflating We've had a decade of great indie space exploration, ship building, flight, combat etc, we've had indies giving us the great dialogue/choices/sprawling conversations based on our backgrounds etc, we should be able to expect more, expect better from one of the biggest devs in the world who have been making this exact game since 2006
Very excited to hear Janet's opinion on Starfield. I think her thoughts will echo mine based on past Bethesda games, and I like hearing her give opinions that may not be considered "popular".
Hey I agree with you, it's good to hear those opinions. BUT I also kind of feel the need to point out that hating bethesda games isn't exactly UNpopular xD
I caved and grabbed the premium upgrade so that I could play it this weekend, average reviews be damned. Fomo is real, and I aint got nothing else going on right now..... Well apart from my pile of shame that I still have to play....
@@palepilgrim1174 just go play it and maybe you’ll recognize why people like it so much! I was replaying it earlier this year and I had more fun with it than I ever did in fallout 3!
@@palepilgrim1174 Good thing we don't have to play the day 1 console editions of New Vegas anymore right? review scores for old games are less than irrelevant, they're actively wrong. When the most popular mods for Skyrim include a 1mb patch that fixes 456415156 issues I don't care that a guy from IGN had bugs on his ps3 12 years ago
Imagine watching a podcast about a review on a game that just released and being frustrated if you get spoiled a couple of times. Get off the internet then. Also, you won't be missed, either.
@@ChunkCohen553 Toxic is not the word you're looking for. Real is. I'm just telling it like it is. I am not seeking friendship or validation here. Announcing that you will unsubscribe? Who cares exactly? So childish.
Hanson 100% says Janet when he's asking Jenna something
42:03 🔍👀
"Mining iron on the moon isn't this fun?"
Yes. Let me mine. I wanna mine. You say there's no need to mine but have you seen how much iron I could mine? Don't touch that system, it's there for me!
I'm thankful that there are still people who appreciate the craft of mining.
@@DarkEggplantmine… craft… 😳
@@TheKaptainKombatMein… Kraft?
@1:35:36 jeffm says "reader" in reference to the patreon commenter. Just a subtle reminder at the massive legacy and good times at gameinformer. Anyone else notice?
Oh I noticed. - Hanson
What's GameInformer?
@podbod25 gaming magazine Jeff M and Hanson (and kyle and leo) used to work at. It was also where Haley and Jacob Geller interned! (In the same intern group as Leo, who was later hired full time as video editor). #minnmaxlore
Ok but FR Starfield not gelling with Janet confirms I'll love the game because our tastes are polar opposite. So her review actually has me more excited.
Geniunely this is a super valid response and I have several folks that I use similarly for movies and games. Glad to be of service. Tell me the last game that didn't click with you and we can see if it works in both directions
@@Gameonysus well recently, I really tried to get into Persona 5? Didn't work at all no matter what I tried. I know I will not like Armored Core. I know both these games are definitely well made games. On top I do assume we have very little overlap when it comes to our game libraries as much as I've known from watching the podcast because even the mutual, popular stuff that gets the intermittent commentary, I feel like our pros and cons are often flipped. The stuff you find insufferable is sometimes a very much valued part of the experience for me and vice versa.
@@Gameonysus the snark isn't necessary, but at least your on brand.
@@319badhass I literaly opened this comment with "geniunely" for this reason and you still think im being sarcastic so at this point I dont know what to do.
@@khs511 That's so funny because ive been waiting forever to check out Persona 5. Def worried it wont be for me but this gives me more hope lol Armored core idk where I land yet but liking it so far! And absolutely there are a lot of well made games I dont like either. And those are the ones I just don't talk about. Maybe people assume I just didnt get to the game?? But there are many codes and things I pass on because I dont think I have a meaningful input for them (fighting games, hardcore FPS, and other titles that just arent my wheelhouse).
But absolutely, the anti-taste maker is just as good as the taste-maker in terms of making it meaningful for you.
The comments are already spicy here lol. People want to have their hype pay off which is natural, even if the game doesn’t fully deliver for everyone.
I think starting with the positives about a big game may be a better path, then the criticisms are easier to put in perspective and swallow. JeffM was all prepared to talk about how much he was enjoying it, but it seems like instead he had to start off saying “I like it but…” to play off of all the criticisms that had just been stated
Negative reviews of blockbuster games always get people feeling a little spicy
@@shambolic8539 yeah I agree I wish it was more of a discussion than a 'review' or whatever.
A lot of the reviews talk about the negatives in the context of a game that can give hundreds of hours of enjoyment. If you can get over them, there is a great game here.
I like listening to this podcast about random games, but absolutely hate hearing them discuss games for which I am actually excited. Bethesda games are not made for the review cycle of game journalists. The same goes for a lot of other huge open world games. Look at Jeff M's opinion of Horizon series. He hated/disliked them on release when he was busy, loved them when he got to play it on his own time and pace with his wife. Maybe I'll go back and listen to the segment after I've played the game, but I had to stop listening to avoid filtering my opinion through nitpicks and weird expectations. Still enjoy the show, still enjoy the whole team.
Having a tough time taking Janet’s take on this game seriously… beat the game in 40 hours and spent a day doing side quest? That’s now how these games are structured. But then again, it is her experience. And she can only come from it from that POV
God, I love this show and these people. Makes my week. Thank you
Would be curious to know if Janet enjoyed Bethesda's previous open-world RPGs or not, because the vibe I'm getting off her impressions is she just doesn't jive with the kind of open-ended design typical of their games all that well. Oh, and that their UI navigation isn't the best, but that's like beating a dead horse at this point! Otherwise, Starfield looks be another excellent example of their kind of free-form exploratory RPG based on everything I've seen or heard of it so far, and the fact no technical challenges were mentioned at all in these group impressions is a far cry from their usual releases, so that bodes well. Looking forward to playing it on the 6th.
I got to the franchise late so I havent finished any yet but what I played of Fallout 3 I really enjoyed. Much like Jenna I loved the world and how it pulls from American culture. The music is a total obsession. That was back in 2016 and then in 2020 I started Fallout 4 cause I wanted to go back and was recommended 4 over 3 by someone. Also a good time and I really enjoyed the designing stuff in that one (which i know some didnt like). Both times I just stopped because i got busy with other things.
My biggest gripe with Starfield is I just felt like the things I did were repetitive and not that interesting in terms of narrative, drama, or general events. There is definitely good stuff in the game but the main quest didnt hit and despite doing a lot of sidequests and odd jobs I didnt do any that spoke to me. Online ive seen some cool side quests surfacing so yeah! Im sure there are cool things but in 44 hours I didnt encounter many.
So if its like well you gotta put MORE time in Im personally good because I dont feel i got enough out of my 44 hours to justify continuing further. Like, i didnt have enough fun in my 44 hour journey to pursue more hypotentical/potential fun.
Hope you end up clicking with it!
Starfield isn't open world tho, so I don't get your point.
The game isn't open world at all, though. More like fish-bowl HUDs separated by a cutscene every 5 minutes.
I love these spicy takes, super glad criticism is not avoided in this show.
Agreed! Janet’s takes are refreshing to hear
@@shambolic8539It's comments like this that convinced me ravenous fanboys think that being negative or critical = bad.
Why do you need to hear about factions? BGS has been doing factions for a long time, they're basically the same, they don't meet the peak of New Vegas, why discuss it?
it's like going to a WWE game review and demanding they tell you if you can body slam someone
We know the shooting isnt fun its BGS game, we know how the factions work its BGS game, how much discussion do you want to happen from "Yeah you board a ship 5 enemies will vaguely shout while taking ten seconds to fumble around and miss you before dying in one gunshot"
We become skyrim stealth snipers faster than ever, everyone dies in two hits
@@shambolic8539 stay mad, seethe etc that this woman has finished a game you haven't touched and came away with some criticism instead of "yeah it shoots like fallout, poorly"
Janet = hot takes. No matter the game. At this point it’s part of why we click
@@shambolic8539ironic coming from someone crying more than a newborn😊
Happy to see Jenna is sticking around! Love her takes and vibes
Yeah she is good people.
Hanson says “Janna” probably on purpose just to screw with them
I think I learned more than I wanted to about starfield from watching this. Slightly regretting my choice
I read your message and I said it cant be that bad 21 mins in I said no forget this. They are small spoilers but I still want those things to be kept secret. I saw the xcast on Kinda Funny and they did a much better job with this. I just skipped the Starfield section
thank you! I'm already sold on the game, very excited to role play in this universe.
So happy to see Jenna back on the pod! I really enjoyed her comments the past two months.
Really appreciated Jenna’s insight on starfield as a fallout fan. I love walking across my map to an objective and running into interesting stuff to get lost in on the way. Sounds like starfield is less of this and a lot more fast travel.
Oh yeah shout out to thw Indie Council podcast, when i found it like a week or 2 ago i binged the first 4 episodes, really cool and chill podcast
Agreed, that pod rules
While I enjoyed yhe Starfield discussion, I have to admit some of the critiques felt very nit-picky.
Like, i dont want a gun to auto-switch when i run out if ammo. At what point is the game playing itself? Personally i don't like excessive signposting. Learning the game is part of the experience for me.
IDK, just seems like some of the expectations were asking for a not Betheada game.
dismissing other people's criticisms as "nitpicking" is basically admitting that what they said is true, but it's not an issue for you. Okay, but it might be an issue for other people. Don't be so dismissive of other peoples' experiences.
@@VoltaDoMar I simply stated that I don't agree with some of the rationale behind their critique. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as they are to theirs. Take it easy.
Calling something "nitpicking" is not the same as just disagreeing with it, it's saying it's not a valid criticism@@josephherb4920
It's because it's an Xbox exclusive, and I'm not even joking. I don't even have an Xbox but it's very clear a lot of 'critics' and online gaming personalities have an axe to grind with all things Xbox.
@@VoltaDoMar i think the initial comment meant that this game has such scale and scope that to focus on one or two very specific minor issues just lack some proportionality.
Perfect game length can't even be based in genre imo. My playtime for Persona 5 was 110 hours and for Undertale it was 6 hours, both RPGs and both felt like the ideal length for me! All depends on the kind of experience the developers are going for.
Indie game made by one person and a triple a game made by hundreds… No way is there a problem with being too reductive with your reasoning to take all scope and perspective out of consideration. You are way too smart for that ;) Yeah no way does your super brain think in terms of buzzfeed articles
@@DamTheKid Team size is not relevant to my comment in anyway and the condescending tone of your reply is totally unnecessary.
Yeah, pacing is a really huge factor in game length for me
I played Marvel's Avengers for 800 hours and the next longest is probably Dragon Age: Inquisition...at 70 hours! Didn't enjoy Avengers as much at the height of it, but certainly still love that beat-em-up feeling. Helps me relate to BGS fans a lot more.
I watched Flubber just a few years ago! It was fun to watch and very nostalgic.
You must be mistake, NOBODY has watched Flubber in 20 years.
Definitely reminds me of my first time playing Skyrim in 2011. I probably did nearly 20 hours before getting the ability to shout
Please don't get a new podcast intro! I love the intro. I never skip it.
Love Jenna ❤️ Janet talks too fast and all over the place with her thoughts , it's hard to follow 😢
I guess some people just don’t acclimate to Bethesda games too well. Janet is very loud in her negative approach. She goes into it expecting it to be a certain thing & when it’s not what she wanted it to be it’s negative. Go into it open, maybe.
I think RocketMortgage is one of those moments I'll remember even years from now, it was so damn funny.
I think Starfield is revealing what gamers want to be served their gameplay or "wow moments" and which gamers want to make their own stories or role play. Bethesda made the game with the latter in mind, and some people failed to comprehend that.
Baldurs Gate 3 absolutely destroys Starfield.
@@michaelp.3485 They are very different games that are set in different worlds. Your roleplaying experience will be completely different. I'm glad both games exist.
EXACTLY. Nailed it.
I wish I had 4 hands...So I could give this episode 4 thumbs up!
I don't know why, but there is always something special about a Janet/JeffM episode for me. I really liked both of their GALOT. That cookbook and that non-profit got me excited.
Also, please keep bring Jenna back. She is a great addition to the podcast.
Why would you want your gun to autoswitch when you run out of ammo?
I swear people just want these games to play themselves these days... Like just go watch movies or TV and provide commentary on that if you don't want to experience player input driven media. Good Lord...
@@palepilgrim1174 Geez it's alright to miss something that's common in other similar vein. It would be great if something like this is a little toggle in the gameplay options menu and maybe they will patch it in when considering player feedback. It's just like how lots of games used to, and to an extent, still have options to invert Y-Axis on gamepad sticks. Some people have other preferences to how natural it feels to control certain types of games
@@AlexSeibel Why not just have an option to have the game run in automode and play itself for you while you watch?
The favorite robot question made me think a bit, and I think if I had to choose I would go with ED-E from New Vegas. i loved having that little guy follow me around and his theme playing every time we entered combat.
Great episode. Ben, my only ask as a long time listener is to PLEASE announce some sort of spoiler tag prior to discussing a new release.
I was under the impression that the team would be discussing how they felt about the game with light spoilers. So far, I’ve learned that there’s a fallout planet, you can have a home/mortgage, and other things I prefer to discover myself.
I think there’s a way to talk about the principles of a thing without being specific, ACG’s review is a great example of this.
So, in essence, Starfield has the same amount of butter as Fallout 3/4 and Skyrim, spread over a bigger piece of toast?
Janet is spot on with how I feel about the game too
THE KINGDOM HEARTS REFERENCE with the Gummi ships! I had that personal thought so many times ^_^.
Idk if you listened to our Kingdom Hearts episode but yeah I'm still working through my playthrough so it's fresh on my mind rn.
@@Gameonysus First time listener following the Starfield coverage. Your opinion would have probably saved me a few hours navigating BGS fans, but as you said, it pushes your conceptions of fun and worth to the brink lol. Thanks for replying, you stole the show but in a respectful way and I can see the love for your fellow hosts. Consider me a brand new...ADORING FAN!
aw thanks! appreciate it @@radrobb3530
Ben, you will totally enjoy Sea of Stars
I don't think anybody with only about 8 hours play time should be telling the Internet what's up with a game this big
Great discussion on starfield. Love hearing the different opinions on the game. Keep up the good work
Great show this week! Everyone brought their A game.
Great to still hear Jenna!
Jimmy Stewart: The Ride should definitely be a new Patreon goal. I would give money for something like that.
Armored Core 6 is a game that gets you into the zone so fast. I feel like as soon as I boot it up im all in. I would say there is a steep learning curve that I'm still picking up on my own, trying real hard not look up guides, but small things like the auto lock for shoot and the tracking/dash when it comes to melee threw me off for like a few hours LOL. Picking up on those things has felt great, kinda reminds me of Sifu when it comes to picking up the mechanics
Play the training missions they really help you with the many battle systems
Sounds like when Starfield lets you pick "chef" or "sculptor" players were expecting Baldurs Gate 3 D&D levels of RPG
Or just that options like that should have some impact if they put them in there.
@dcsoda1 i get the frustration but i would call it "gamification" theres plenty of other titles that give you a title but its not literally the title but a gamification to justify a certain skill boost. Bethesda never out right said choosing chef means being a chef, but the gamers took it that way. This is not new for Bethesda. Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.
Choosing Artisan Guild or Urchin in your BG3 character creation literally equates to like 5-10 dialogue options over the game, maybe you're already familiar with the local gangs or maybe your religious background lets you recgonise a statue
It's such a minor thing its shocking Bethesda can't do that
Completely agree with Janet on Starfield. I'm enjoying it because of the familiar Bethesda structure, but it is just 'fine'. There are some really dull systems and plenty of those systems aren't explained well or given much meaning.
Sometimes im not sure if Janet actually enjoys games
I think it's a pretty safe bet she doesn't, along with a hell of a lot of other video game critics and journalists and personalities. They force themeselves to play through games like this to spew out a review or 'have an opinion on a hot new game'. Then their opinions/reviews totally belie that they don't actually play these kinds of games and don't understand their function or appeal. So they end up dabbing on a bunch of core systems and features that the fans of these games adore. It's a sad state of affairs, really.
The more games a person plays, the higher their standard becomes.
It’s difficult to praise a $70+ AAA title with wide-yet-shallow features, when said features have been more fully and creatively explored elsewhere, often for a fraction of the cost.
I think a lot of people are going to be upset once they realize that Starfield doesn’t have interplanetary space travel. It’s all menus and loading screens. Planets are essentially 2D assets and part of the skybox, while planet surfaces expand finitely with stark boundaries.
@@jonathanbaird That isn’t how it works at all.
@@palepilgrim1174 Pardon? Players cannot land on planet surfaces or fly between planets without navigating menus and initiating load screens, nor can players traverse around without hitting environmental boundaries.
Am I mistaken? Because there’s plenty of video evidence documenting all of this.
@@jonathanbairdwhat frustrated me was that at the time this was uploaded people who had not played or were very early in were not allowing someone who had played the game to completion to have their own opinion.
Janet's "It's something to do" is one the most glib and cynical and self-satisfied things I've heard in game journalism. It might be a middling game, but it's also a remarkable technical and artistic work created by hundreds of well meaning people.... What's tougher? Making any game or talking crap on the internet?
I think certain people in the gaming sphere have just forgotten that video games are supposed to actually be video games and not interactive movies.
It's clearly not their passion. It's clearly not what they want to be doing in life or critiquing. But it's a paycheck. I think that is a shockingly high percentage of video game critics and personalities.
Video games are player input driven media. They thrive on player interaction and impact on the world and its inhabitants.
More and more I'm just seeing critics lambast these core aspects of video games in favor of interactive buttonprompt cutscene 'gameplay'.
Starfield will sell well. It will have high engagement. It will have long legs and lifespan. It will be a game for the gamers. The core, oldschool Bethesda fanbase. The ones who loved Oblivion etc.
But that won't appeal to critics who want voiced protagonists in every game (even games they are an active detriment in), autoswitching weapons, automovement and a ton of other restrictions on player input.
"What's tougher? Making any game or talking crap on the internet?" - is nobody allowed to criticize a game now? what about Cyberpunk on launch? was that ok because it was "created by hundreds of well meaning people"?
@Magic7ball it's people who can't think outside of "woman hate game"
Incentive is a HUGE pull for open worlds. I had to make goals for myself in most of them, or else I just aimlessly explore and get bored after a while. It's weird to see so many, let's be real here, idiotic comments towards Janet.
what a strange comment, I think putting it in the Farcry/Borderlands catagory is a great place for bethesda to be going forward, I know farcry isnt amazing or fresh, but its a fun weekend game for $20 on sale for sure, and now Bethesda is in that nook, it's good nook to be in but they're doing nothing unique, everything they're attempting has been done better by other games the last 10 years.
They're behind the ball, their space travel, space combat, dialogue , characters and game systems have been surpassed while they stayed making Oblivion over and over and over
I see the flaws but nonetheless have been loving the game. Main story is good so far, hasn't been my focus. The faction mission lines are great, I'm in deep to the ship building. My favorite part has been the romance, the pacing sucks and the only pay of is a 15% xp boost(when you sleep instead of 10%) when you are adventuring with your partner. Some of the most memorable moments I've had are jumping into a systems and going to a point of interest in space and seeing what happens a few favorites include Juno, ghost ship and colony ship.
1:37:17
That we live at a point where people think their film appreciation goes up the LESS they know confirms to me that we have an audience of movie goers who see film as service, as killing time, not as art.
So, I've brought this movie up before (and you can blame Spooky Rice for it being on my mind again recently) but I'm a fan of the flick Irreversible, I think it's superb.
Knowing the behind the scenes of how that flick was put together makes it WAY better than if you sit down to watch it like any other flick (which you should NOT do, I will not be responsible for the outcome).
Who SHOULD watch Irreversible?
It lives at the intersection of Passion of the Christ and Requiem for a Dream, so if you like those films then you should absolutely watch Irreversible --- make it a movie marathon starting with Passion, moving on to Requiem, and ending with Irreversible, that should put you in the right head space.
Also, DO familiarize yourself with the behind the scenes, Irreversible represents incredible filmmaking with a TON of digital manipulation not unlike how Children of Men was made.
I'm with Ben! Cliff Jumping is so fun and its rare to find places to jump close to the cities I've lived in
Nothing beats a good egg!
As a Playstation/Switch only game person who had fun with previous Bethesda games and would probably have paid full price for Starfield if it was on PS- My take after seeing these reviews is: No way do I feel FOMO or a need to buy and xbox or PC for this one game- BUT I might sign up for a month of xcloud when game season dries up and give it a go. But considering my current feast of games released, releasing or soon to release- it'll take a long while before I get to it.
Either way I think Bethesda fans are gonna have a blast- but folks looking for the next big thing are gonna look elsewhere.
Janet if you want to do that arrested storyline you can get there by joining UC Vanguard on New Atlantis.
I agree with Jenna and Janet with Ben calling out their names lol, it sounded so similar
New Show+ Idea: Chaotic Holes with Kyle Hilliard.
Yeah, the title sounds dirty. Just leave it.
Gotta love when people like Janet nit pick the hell out of a game like Starfield, a new IP that actually is trying ambitious new things.
Meanwhile, the next Pokémon game will come out, score an 8 or 9 on sites like IGN, and all shortcomings will be forgiven. The same recycled garbage they send out every year despite being technical disasters. The double standard is hilarious.
Starfield isn't perfect, but at least they're trying something new. Gamers should celebrate it instead of wanting games to fail. The discourse on this game has been really depressing, and exposed a lot of the same console war bullshit that has only gotten worse. My advice? Just play the game for yourself, don't limit yourself to one person's opinion.
It's genuinely so depressing. I felt a very similar way with Death Stranding. Incredible game. Ambitious. Mindblowing. Highly appealing to me (and I don't even own a PlayStation so there you go, I am 100% not a fanboy and can acknowledge incredible works of art for the 'other team'). And seeing some of the criticisms of that, from 'professional journalists'... just absolutely souldestroying. If these people had their way, every game would be the same halfbaked Unreal Engine with light RPG elements and openworld checkboxes and the same voice actors and the same soundtracks and the same storylines and characters and the same goddamn everything... Enough is enough. This industry is NOT Hollywood. But it is fast becoming it, in large part thinks to the 'critical elite'.
Are they “trying something new”? As someone who plays a lot of indie titles, I’m not so sure.
I’m with you on the “wanting games to fail” bit, though Todd and Bethesda have made enough overhyped statements that I understand why gamers would be weary and critical from the start.
I genuinely hope that people have a great time with Starfield. The exploration is just a bit too shallow and “been there, done that” for my own tastes.
@@jonathanbaird "overhyping". It's just called marketing. If you let "hype-levels" influence you then that's your problem.
Target recently held an all hands meeting in which they announced they would be removing any pride themed events or products as well as heritage events and merchandise (I.e. black history month).
I like the intro as is! 🎶
thanks for spoiling the fallout thing?
relax and change your perspective
thicker skin my dude, your setting yourself up for failure with an unrealistic standard.
The shock over starfields story being 20ish hours is weird, Skyrims main story is like six hours at best.
I get Hansons impressed with the 'they know their space blahblah' but given the last 10 years worth of space exploration we've had it really feels like Starfields falls flat from traversal to combat
Sounds like Hanson's dad was describing Animal Farm.
As someone who HADN'T seen the leaked _Deadpool 3_ pictures...thanks for spoiling Hanson!
Cry us a river. Stay off the Internet if you're that concerned with spoilers
Thanks for the warning. I was enjoying the podcast, but I don't see a point where spoilers for Deadpool 3 without warning would be appropriate. Guess I'll skip the rest until I've seen that movie.
@@ITNoetic You're welcome. It's so ironic because he talks about while bemoaning how it sucks that we know so much about movies before their release.
I'm playing NMS now; so playing Starfield is going to interesting
Units Receiiiived ;D
24:50 missed joke opportunity: should have said "These Base Building options are so BASE-ic."
I respect all these opinions. But Janet herself says she main lined the quest, and somehow had to grind levels to what I assume is a later mission requirement. I can’t imagine hitting late game and still being level 13. I feel like only playing main mission is missing the point of the game, which is why she’s hating it so much.
I was level 13 like the first day or two I played and that's when I had to grind. I said I mostly did the campaign but did 10 - 20 hours of side content. The HLTB on Starfield is 20 hours if you main line and I beat the game after 44 hours. I ended the game at like level 30 or level 40. Not sure cause I dont feel like booting it up to see but one of my late files was level 30 for sure. I dont want to misrepresent my experience because I know some folks who will put many more hours in and thus play more side content than main content (thats not me) but idk why my 10-20 hours of side content just doesnt count to people
I love that you got both extremes of the Starfield opinion here, because it's such a conflicting game for me because I agree with everything Jeffm and Ben said as well as what Janet said. On one hand you're in awe at the crackle of a ship, watching pirate ships warp away in fear of the sight of your ship and fascinated walking through a museum colony. On the other you're dumping five magazines into a level 30 sponge with no risk of death, walking around for 20 min finding that one animal to finish your planet survey and trying to get through a quest without minimal completion options by shooting the fairly evil NPC only to find they're programmed to be invincible.
It's great exploring a fairly fleshed out rendition of an Expanse-like low sci-fi world with surprisingly deep world-building, but god does that make the lows hit hard.
One of the best game talk shows on UA-cam . Great job
calling it a "review" after only having 9 hours in a Bethesda game? you might as well drive 1 car and call it a review of a Forza game...
why not title the video "first impressions"???
The cut at 3:13 threw me off a bit :D
1:42:47
I think that Bicentennial Man is a SUPERB film, 10/10, please watch it. It is an epic life journey akin to Forrest Gump. Also see What Dreams May Come, Mrs. Doubtfire, and The Postman (1997).
It's the MOOOOOOOOOOOON BUTCHER
Yeah yeah yeah, Starfield and Armored Core, who cares, but Jenna! Super excited to see her pop up again already! She's just such a god dang delight whenever she's around.
Oh, btw, I think this game won't truly come alive till the mods start getting out there. That will bring some fun, colour and variety that appears to be missing from the game according to the reviews so far. I hope these are fully supported on the Xbox like they have been with the previous games.
Agree with Jenna on the get in that Ass AC build, Ive got my double sword build that staggers with the smaller one into my big blade and its a blast.
The point Janet points to about the lack of incentivization really highlights this flaw in a lot of (meaningless) open worlds.
I have a life outside of videogames. Why the hell do I care about building a house or playing this one time-consuming mini game if it doesn’t ultimately serve anything from a holistic perspective? Again, I can do actual shit in real life.
This is what I love about FromSoft’s games. They force you to utilize all mechanics. BG3 and Armored Core, more recently, do the same. Make me actually interested and incentivized to do this random, time-consuming, “oh-so-creative” shit…
I don't think it should be considered an objective flaw, some people love doing that stuff, even if it doesn't produce meaningful rewards. For some people it's fun working towards your own goals, the pursuit in itself is the reward. Regardless of how pointless it may seem to others
@@temperythm Of course it's not objective. Just like it's not objective to say Starfield is the best game ever made
I said ‘ joy’ at exactly the same time as Kyle 😐
Great show! Always love hearing Janet and JeffM's takes on games.
My Horizon brother.
Thinskinned Janet is now screenshotting comments from this thread and "totally not willing her fans to fight trolls (AKA critics of her criticism)". I mean she blurred the usernames out to give her "oh please don't attack them for me" schtick, but the comments are pretty easy to find since we all know it's the Starfield Minnmax review.
Hey, Janet, for future reference, you don't need to block out my username when you're trying to get your Twitter sycophants to dogpile me. I'm not perpetually thinskinned, like you.
Truly astounding to me that a 'professional critic' would take criticisms of her critiques (which she's paid to give publicly) so personally.
Thre's something so funny about you hating me for hating a game because you hate me SOOOOO much. I haven't seen someone as obsessive as you for a while like, you're 1 step away from going on Reddit and writing a manifesto. Like, you have to see that it's silly to be so mad about this don't you?
@@Gameonysus Like I’ve said numerous times, I don’t have any personal issues with you. I have only ever criticized your lame, substanceless, vapid critiques of Starfield in this video. Which you’re paid to give publicly, opening your criticisms up to criticism from others. That’s how voicing opinions works. People can disagree with you and point out the things you’re saying don’t make sense or belie a misunderstanding of the thing you’re attempting to criticize.
I’ve kept that specifically to this comment thread on the video you spoke in. I didn’t decide to screenshot your comments and post them to my social media, like you did with me, for whatever reason.
I also don’t know why you keep trying to twist this into me personally attacking you or harassing or trolling you when I’m just calmly criticizing your own output (your critique).
Are you harassing and trolling and attacking Bethesda developers for criticizing their output (Starfield)? What kind of sense does that even make. But still you continue with this angle.
I’ve kept things very civil, Janet. I’ve been articulate and levelheaded and focused in my criticisms of your criticisms of Starfield. Which is more than I can say for your, frankly, awful take on Starfield.
I think you’ve shown yourself to be incredibly unprofessional, thinskinned and petulant in the way you’ve responded to me (and others) criticizing your criticisms in this comment thread.
In future try to analyze games from a less emotional and subjective, and lazy, position. You not liking specific types of games or features of games or systems in games does not make them bad. It’s about the design and execution, not whether you personally enjoyed them or not.
I can’t stand turnbased combat or click to move gameplay or not being in control of the camera but I wouldn’t say Baldur’s Gate 3 is a bad game because CRPGs just aren’t designed for me.
Anyway, I’ve said all I need to say on this matter.
Janet and others watch It's A Wonderful Life and do a Deepest Dive for Holiday special?
the visor that guy wears in the bethesda video playing just kills me. I haven't seen anyone wear those things in a really long time cuz they're absurd IMO 45:06
1:59:39 sorry Kyle, but those rules aren't true. Teams just keep playing OT normally until someone scores! Officiating with multiple pucks would be so difficult hahaha
I love Janet, I feel like the way she plays and thinks about games is so relatable, I always want to hear her opinions. and I'm thankful that she's here as a foil for some of the other more hot takes.
I'd argue that hers is also a hot take.
@@alexlyster3459 Yeah, hot garbage.
Darn it Kyle, you and your spoilers! Even if it is small ( Fal#$% world ) you also were the only person to spoil a certain big One piece characters death :/ in a gaming podcast which I never expected.
If the enjoyment can be spoiled by knowing of its existence, I can't imagine it was very enjoyable to begin with. Not to mention this is a show about game discussion, and people make it almost impossible to do their jobs. If you are so concerned with spoilers I suggest you restrict what you watch, but you are also dictating to others how they should discuss games. no hard feelings though, I do enjoy seeing what others think.
"I'm a diehard Fallout fan, I'm still playing Fallout 76"
What?
Similar to you Prisoner was one of the first movies I watched where I realized the extra connection being a parent has to certain characters and types of stories
Shocked, Shocked I say that Janet Playstation Garcia doesn't like Starfield that much and is the loudest and monopolizes most of the segment. Would have loved to hear more from Jeff M.
Sounds like a lot of the gangs complaints about Starfield are just complaints about the modern Fallout and Elder Scrolls games. I guess the criticism there is Bethesda should have evolved those quality of life quirks by now, but a lot of the time they commented on them as if they are new things when theyve been around in Bethesda games for years now and fans of their games are used to them. Stuff like the favorites system, the menus, the inventory, etc.
"modern bethesda" is doing a lot of the work there, Fallout 4 was in 2015, 8 years ago, it should be expected that one of the biggest and best developers in the world, let a lone a developer whos been making this exact game for 15+ years should have come back with massive changes and improvements to the formula, not six steps back all over the place and keeping pace with itself in others.
I agree the conversation can sound like people talking about it being a 'new thing' but the last game came out when 28 year olds were 20 years old, 15 year olds were 7 years old, it is basically new to most people who played fallout once and never thought about it again while playing 641545 games in between
It felt like there was more evolution between Oblivion>Fallout 3>Skyrim>Fallout New Vegas>Fallout 4 and Fallout 4>76>Starfield in the same time frame
@@ChichiNaka I just said modern to differentiate from the older ones. Not meaning they are state of the art in any sense. My criticism is that minnmax acted like they had never seen these problems before when they have been present in every modern Bethesda game. The criticism should be that they haven’t improved it. Not incredulity that it exists at all.
I can't seem to decide if I want to buy Starfield or not. On one hand I love BGS games, but on the other hand these reviews are not very promising. They all seem to bring up the same flaws, too. The UI sucks, planets outside of the few main hub locations are copy/paste asset groupings, the mainline narrative isn't very compelling, and the fast travel/loading screens are intrusive and kill the feeling of exploration.... I feel like all four of those would really bother me. Sure, I could sub to Game Pass for a month but that just feels like a waste of $16 because I won't really use it. If anyone else that was skeptical has played the game and has an opinion I would appreciate it.
If you like other Bethesda games you're more than likely going to like this. Reviews honestly have not been that bad overall unless you consider anything sub 90 to be terrible? anyway you probably already decided either way at this point haha
Jenna is awesome!!!
ahh Janet..optimistic as always...🙄😒
Its a post morrowind bethesda game of course the writing is bad and theres no incentive to do anything
F4 was crazy disappointing and F76 was a disaster. This is the follow up. What did you expect?
@JRDELM8R a different team made FO76 so not sure what your point is there. Starfield is currently sitting at an 88 on Metacritic, so I don't think this is the failure, so many are making it out to be.
She didn't say anything that crazy though. Think that hype has gotten to you 🤕
I knew she was going to hate it. Her and Bless from Kinda Funny are so biased towards PlayStation
Make the grading scale 1-5
Any other scale just creates room for indecisiveness and generosity. Even more Chad would be if you dont allow decimals.
Sites like Eurogamer are currently receiving a lot of 'Capital-G' gamer vitriol for using a five-point system. Their three- and four-star reviews have a large impact on the almighty aggregate.
Better would be to abolish scores completely. The larger gaming community would do well to read and process opinion instead of beating off to Metacritic.
@jonathanbaird i don't mind getting rid of scores as well. I just hate when people say "7 out of 10" might as well say "i cant decide if its average or above average". Average and above average are pretty different to me so i dont understand why you cant commit to one. Bite the bullet!
Not directing this specifically at MM just a thought considering so many people are talking/reviewing starfield currently
@@jonathanbaird It's so fucking weird that 'gamers' care about theaggregate score of a video game lmao why are we devolving into kpop stan 13 year old culture
@@ChichiNakaBecause plenty of gamers never evolved beyond the mindset of 13-year-old K-pop stans, even in their 30s and 40s. It’s really unfortunate.
Yay Jenna is back!!
Janet hating on Starfield? What a surprise.
I'm assuming by your condemnatory comment that you've played more than she has...? Looking at reviews, she isn't alone in her opinions.
Her complaints are common across several other reviewers and even other people on this same podcast. Please grow up.
@@shambolic8539Exactly. When there are pre-existing negative biases, I cant take the opinion of said reviewer seriously.
@@shambolic8539 Not sure how you read anything parasocial in my comment, but sure go off. The fact is that Janet has played 40+ hours of Starfield and isn't alone in her criticism. You and Scottyben191, on the other hand, haven't played a single hour (?) yet are quite reactive to dissenting opinion.
I think more critics and game personalities need to start acknowledging the difference between 'I'm simply not vibing on this game' or 'I personally am not enjoying this game right now' and 'this game is objectively, mechanically bad' or flawed in some other more grounded measure of quality.
Way too many reviewers are injecting their feelings into reviews and what you get is stuff like this.
I've played great games in the past and just not felt them at the time for a whole variety of reasons. Sometimes I was depressed. Sometimes I was burned out on video games or that specific theme in media. I don't pretend those games are bad just because I wasn't feeling them at the time I played them.
Not a great show. Also not a fan of people eating or doing other things while filming.
I think the show was good. I just think several of the "criticisms" were completely without substance, nitpicky or hypocritical. But this is a problem with several big reviewers as well. And other established critics have even commented on some of these 7/10s and "criticisms". Which I don't think I've ever seen before in gaming. Other critics literally criticizing the low scores given by certain outlets.
Something is up.
I'm with Kyle: joy
❤❤❤thanks for tweeting this episode out janet brought me to minnmaxx
In regards to swearing on the podcast, I would up tiers for a MinnMax After Dark episode w/ swearing and a goofy activity.
I love Janet's takes and her view on games, but saying Starfield could be a 6/10 should considered a war crime.
6/10 is still positive
Great panel and great Starfield discussion! Janet and Jenna are especially informative and articulate. Stoked to pick up the game!
Starfield being another 7/10 'just a bethesda game' is the most predictable moment in history, it was shocking how out of control peoples hype levels got the last few weeks
There's more reviews than IGN mate.
@@Philpot1992 Sure?, Janet said 7 maybe a 6, and that's about where I'm landing after today as well?
I didn't even mention IGN I said "Starfield being another 7/10 'just a bethesda game' is the most predictable moment in history,"
I'm not sure I've watched an IGN video since 2011
@ChichiNaka sorry wasn't meant to sound bitchy, a lot of people have saod the exact same thing about IGN. They famously gave it 7 despite loving it enough to make loads of videos. Janet saod a lot of incorrect things in this video so I'll take the opinionated bits with a pinch of salt too. I've stayed away from the hype so far as so can't comment on that. One of the benefits of being an adult I suppose lol.
Hype was deservedly high. Nobody who already didn't like bethesda games shouldve expected to enjoy starfield. The people this game is for, they will love it
@@temperythm I should be in the opposite camp though, I accept Bethesda games are as wide as the ocean and as shallow as a puddle, Fallout 4s writing was awful, its rpg systems were awful, my max intelligence, max cybernetics/robotics character who travelled with a synth detective from the 1950s for dozens of hours was still like "HUH A SYNTH WTF IS A SYNTH YOU'RE A R-R-R-R-R-R-OBOT!?!?!?! towards the end of the game.
But I still found some fun with it, especially when survival mode came in (lacking in starfield) and Far Harbor was like 13 steps towards New Vegas in terms of writing and choice.
But to have these enemies just fall over, to be the big bad space pirate, board and enemy ship and have 5 bethesda ass skyrim enemies die in one hit while shooting me twice total is so deflating
We've had a decade of great indie space exploration, ship building, flight, combat etc, we've had indies giving us the great dialogue/choices/sprawling conversations based on our backgrounds etc, we should be able to expect more, expect better from one of the biggest devs in the world who have been making this exact game since 2006
Very excited to hear Janet's opinion on Starfield. I think her thoughts will echo mine based on past Bethesda games, and I like hearing her give opinions that may not be considered "popular".
Hey I agree with you, it's good to hear those opinions. BUT I also kind of feel the need to point out that hating bethesda games isn't exactly UNpopular xD
I caved and grabbed the premium upgrade so that I could play it this weekend, average reviews be damned. Fomo is real, and I aint got nothing else going on right now.....
Well apart from my pile of shame that I still have to play....
We need to abolish review scores if 87 is average
Theres a reason new vegas is everyones favorite fallout bethesda didnt make it
Fun fact. New Vegas is also has the lowest Metascore of all the 'Bethesda-likes'.
@@palepilgrim1174 just go play it and maybe you’ll recognize why people like it so much! I was replaying it earlier this year and I had more fun with it than I ever did in fallout 3!
@@palepilgrim1174 Good thing we don't have to play the day 1 console editions of New Vegas anymore right? review scores for old games are less than irrelevant, they're actively wrong.
When the most popular mods for Skyrim include a 1mb patch that fixes 456415156 issues I don't care that a guy from IGN had bugs on his ps3 12 years ago
@@palepilgrim1174It was also rushed out after only 18 months dev time
@@J790F They agreed to those contractual obligations. They most of the framework from the game in place from Fallout 3 and a lot of assets.
I got cornhole as a xbox code
How is it?
Lmaoo 🌽
Wow Kyle drops two big spoilers early in this discussion. That gets an unsubscribe from me. Unacceptable
Imagine watching a podcast about a review on a game that just released and being frustrated if you get spoiled a couple of times. Get off the internet then. Also, you won't be missed, either.
@@samy29987 if you can’t review a game without spoiling it, that’s on you. This isn’t marked for spoilers
@@samy29987this is NOT how you build a community. You seem very toxic
@@ChunkCohen553 Toxic is not the word you're looking for. Real is. I'm just telling it like it is. I am not seeking friendship or validation here. Announcing that you will unsubscribe? Who cares exactly? So childish.
@@samy29987 man this kid is seething