Once in two cities I was playing engineer and a couple of teammates taught me where to put the sentry middle combat and the best place for the dispenser, they were incredibly helpful and wholesome to play with
a experienced mvm players sometimes do what they do best help new players i myself a new player on the tour and studied where to put the dispensers, sentries as well with body block giant robo scouts, i rarely play spy and sniper in mvm since i let the veterans what they do best and one thing is gas passer i used it for only uber medics and if the wave is to crowded if my team struggling to finish them
I have only ever come across 1 person that didn't like someone using the Gas passer, it was the high tour demo queued with his Kritz medic that only healed him. He was getting out damaged and was not happy about it, tried to get our pyro kicked multiple times and eventually 4/6 waves in just straight up left, his medic parasite with him too. We then had 2 people joined that said nothing, filled their roles and we won easily.
I feel like most people dislike it because it just makes certain things way too easy and other classes just don't get to actually do anything, or at least not much of anything. Though I definitely do enjoy when Pyros use it to take out Ubermeds, because as a Heavy player, I'm entirely unable to deal with them on my own. I just find it kind of disappointing personally when they just use it on a giant group of soldiers or something and I don't get to shoot a single one cause they're all dead in .2 picoseconds. Other than that, I don't usually mind it, and most of the time it's actually welcome in my books
About Point 4: In Metro/Empire, we had a noob Engineer who flubbed on the first wave. But the high tour Soldier, in a very rare display of PURE CHILL calmy explained what items the Engineer has to pick and where the buildings serve their purpose best. The Engineer listened and we A+ the rest of the mission. Moral: If a high tour calmly and civically explains how to perform optimally with the class picked, listen to him. His tour count lends legitimacy to his advice.
@@Panzerfaust234 In that case you still should not get upset though, newer players do not deserve the anger directed at them 99.9% of the time. Ignorance is not the same as malice.
I once went through an entire MvM match with 0 voice chat communications, and 0 chat messages. We lost 0 gates, and there were no lost rounds. Just a straight shot to the finish line.
MvM is not hard, at all. If you have a competent engineer and uber medic killer, you're golden. I once beat a Rottenburg mission with 3 people, we only lost one round.
@@friendofp.24 Need 3 competent teammates for an possible game in two-cities. Cuz some of noobs keep feeding giant black box sodiers and my single target dps done jack shit. I played as demoman for bursting damage but my medic doesn't have krit we are f*cked for the entire round. I have to changed to heavy, told engi to shared his dispenser for frontline, and a couple of classes change. After that, me and medic carried the game singlehandedly with some assistance. If your entire team know their job, it is a breeze. But if not, it will be quite challenging.
@@friendofp.24for reals There was a guy who did X6 and there ARE X6 singkr class mvm servers They really are easy just like in pubs with competent team. Especially since robots are predictable. The A.I. coding for bots in TF2 and L4D2 are really bad lol.
i remember my most toxic experience was with a 5 stack of high tours, i was maining demo at the time and was learning how to be good with it in mvm, i was actually doing a pretty good job but turns out, the high tours i met had a spreadsheet of minimum damage a class should do per wave and per siege of robots, i was 113 damage off of their "good" class for the 2nd to last siege of robots before the tour ended and i was kicked, i really hope those people never get another australium honestly
Bruh, if you’re still clearing the waves at a relatively ok pace with minimum issues, then there shouldn’t be any problems. Judging someone by “how little contribution to overall damage” is dumb. I hope you found better games after.
I have only ever been kicked out of an MvM game one time before. It was on a two cities tour, and a high tour got extremely upset over someone playing pyro (It was on Manhattan). He kept asking if the pyro saw any tanks. Now, to be fair, we didn't handle the situation in the most polite manner because we already saw the guy as extremely rude, but the entire rest of the party started joking around and going "Idk what you're talking about man. We all see the tank in the HUD." Regardless, the entire party was fine with having a pyro with us, but the high tour got so upset that he went out of his way to change his name and reconnect to the game and kept saying that he was going to afk until he got his items. Now, we weren't exactly the best players, but we were able to handle a few waves down a player. Eventually some people left because it became clear that we weren't gonna handle it the best. The high tour actually invited bot accounts to join in as spy and just sit in spawn. He then proceeded to votekick people since he had the numbers advantage. He sat there for a good 30 minutes minimum complaining about the fact that he wasn't going to play with a pyro instead of just going to a different game. Like, I can understand the frustration, but if the majority of the server is fine with it and you aren't, why not just leave and find a new game?
They feel as though everybody should follow then and it's really sad, I left a game where everybody else left, leaving the taco bot to his devices. He didn't have push to talk and it was always active so the last word I heard was 'shit'
I don’t understand the tacobotter’s dislike of the gas passer just because it’s a good weapon and makes the waves slightly easier. If they don’t want the game to be too easy, why don’t they also hate engineers? Engies make missions way too easy: they provide infinite ammo, have a server side aimbot, can turn that aimbot into a 2,000 HP tank and the engie himself does almost nothing in the meanwhile.
@@bezel95 I can kind of understand a little more after having frequented Wave 666. At some point, your goal isn't just to clear the missions anymore. It's the exact same thing over and over again, so challenging yourself to hit certain milestones using certain classes becomes more of a priority. For instance, I wanted to play spy, and a puro kept spamming gas, which quite literally meant that I was sitting there for 20-30 minutes doing absolutely nothing while the pyro farmed everything. There's no incentive to complete 666. As a result, I can honestly understand the hatred for the weapon (I still think removing someone from the game forcibly is wrong, but I definitely see where they're coming from). As for engineer, one could at least argue that engineers have a specific role to play in preventing something like a wave of scouts from just rushing the bomb. They can act as a fail-safe for a very specific situation, whereas the gas passer is never really ineffective, and extremely spammable.
It's kinda stupid to poke the hornet's nest when you knew that it was going to explode and you don't even know a way to defend yourself from the stings. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's stupid.
@@bloopy273 Nobody was really upset at the way that he acted. We all just found it incredibly entertaining. Not only that, but we weren't gonna stand for that unironic sort of behavior in the lobby, and we made that very clear. Ultimately, while it ended up a waste of time for us, it was even more of a waste of time and resources for him.
Regarding the communication point, I noticed that just using the mercs own voices can be enough to bridge that language barrier since most people will probably play the game in a language they can understand, meaning they also will be able to understand the mercs voices...so even if you are the most unsocial person and dont want to interact with anyone at all, the least you can do is use the voice comands
I honestly cant take seriously a player using the MEEEEDIC voicelines (even on casual) becuase they just spam that voiceline mostly when they dont need it Just like the put dispenser here voiceline cuz uhuhuhuhu funi meme pootis huhuhuhu So yeah, tf2 community in general cant be taken seriously
@@Ultra289 the dispenser one could also just be someone trying to tell a new Engi where to put his dispencer...not that the Engi will undetdtand it...but there an attempt
@@DustD.Reaper the dispensers are always in the same places speaking for valve maps only which are always ideal yet these individuals keep spamming the voicelines ,some even spam it too much for pretty much no reason, its just impossible to take tf2 community seriously Even a noob knows where to spawn the dispensers even after retreat in all valve maps
I think the gas passer's "lack of skill" is actually important because it allows someone who would normally be "dead weight" on any other class to actually contribute to the team
Seems good at first but players who use gas never have actually end up learning how to play MvM. I’ve seen some people with like 10+ tours have no idea what the fuck to do because someone else went gas pyro
I was once playing boot camp on expert waves and I came across a team that wanted to use the “meta” so I went along with it and picked heavy. When the wave with the tanks came ( we were on Mannworks) I decided I would go pyro and take on the tanks, I announced in chat that I was using the gas passer because I didn’t know what other pyro secondary’s where good at the time. I got no response in chat, no response over vc, just a vote kick that went through. And that is why I don’t play expert anymore.
Surprising as it may sound I’ve never been kicked in MvM. But I did inadvertently get someone ELSE kicked. I was playing medic and our demo was apparently VIOLENTLY offended that I dared to give anyone but him krits, so after he learned he couldn’t bully me into it, he tried to get me vote kicked. It failed, then everyone kicked him to get the whining to stop, and I was the only one in the group that was good at medic
Very deserved. Just because you aren't shoving your healing beam into his ass doesn't mean you should be kicked. He could just get health on kill if he needed healing that bad, or crit canteens.
I dont get kicked very often, but I do start vote kicks relativly often. And that is when some toxic ''good'' mvm players are trash talking to new players. Now, Im not saying you should just let the clueless pyro run in and die constantly, but you can teach without insulting people. Being polite goes a long way to improve the experience for the entire team, not just the new player.
Yes, but 90% of those Pyros I've met either completely ignore us, pulls out a bible-length excuse as to why they only main Pyro, or call us elitists. And I only had 340-ish tours. Imagine someone else higher than that who have to put up with those kinds of people every tour they see, of course they're gonna have a very negative impression towards you, thus being toxic without even realising it. It's called stigmatising. It's not healthy, but we humans aren't perfect either.
Keep in mind: if you kick the toxic good players, the new players are often left with no one to carry them, and will fail repeatedly until they give up and quit. And in doing so, they can ruin the experience for those around them just as surely as any toxic player does. Is that really a better outcome than seeing them soaking up a few insults? Sometimes you just gotta let the "tough love" happen--the new players might be new to MvM, but they aren't new to the internet, or gaming, or the toxicity that comes with both. They always have the option of the mute button if they don't enjoy the abuse. At the end of the day, you have to be careful, because you might be doing more harm than good by trying to punish toxicity.
I'd 100% prefer losing over and over because of a newblood than having to listen to some high tour dictator spewing thrash at people cuz he ain't getting his virtual numbers
@@matheusvasiliauskassoares4361 agreed. even if you do well and know exactly what to do, i will still consider you a bad teammate if you spew bile at the team. even if they won, those teammates are going to leave the game with a sour impression because you yelled at them all the time
@@lsdave42 There's a difference between being legitimately toxic and questioning another player's decisions (such as why are you scout and not picking cash? why are you building on last engineer? why do you not have upgrades?). Trash talking is not valuable and is annoying. I don't care if you are good, screw off. Though when it comes to verbal toxicity (Voice chat or text chat) i do lean towards using the mute features that TF2 has. Still I have no qualms about kicking the toxic guy.
I've only played MvM twice, and I enjoyed both games. My team had some experience, but they seemed fairly new as well. We never talked, we failed a few rounds multiple times, but we stayed together and pulled through. Beforehand I had never watched or read a guide, I was going in pretty blind, but I figured out what upgrades are good and it seems to have lined up with what competent players use (medic and soldier being my favorite classes helps though). There could be a lot of improvements in game to teach new players what to do, but having aspirations to improve and a team that gives time to figure it out, it's intuitive enough for any competent person to teach themselves
Same, but I used engie and discovered by myself that buying Dispenser Range was a good idea well I did bougth Disposable Sentry but I was using the Frontier Justice and dealt a lot of damage and helped the Heavy that had less experience. Yeah that was my first and only time I played MVM and enjoyed it, everything is better from the first time I guess.
Yea the problem with MvM bootcamp last time I played it is that competency was lacking. Eny who builds at last 3 Scouts team comp Scouts that do not collect cash No Upgrades, unable to comprehend that there is an upgrade station even with team mates who do their best to inform them Bad in general people. This is more of a gray area but it does get annoying when you can't beat the easiest difficulties because you're down a player, 2 of other players can't pull a stick let alone their own weight, and the remaining 2 players are average Joes. BTW there's nothing wrong with average Joes. Average joes are the casuals who can do something. They probably aren't going to carry but they can do something.
I’ve only been kicked because my username was “Friendly Texan” and someone said there’s no such thing as a friendly Texan, he then convinced the server to kick me
another reason for getting kicked would be "readying up too fast" because that's not giving time to others like engi, medic and demo to ready up buildings, ubers and traps... curiously enough I never got kicked from MvM, had a good teacher
Very true, I've seen people get pissy because someone didn't unready and let our Engie set up. But usually that sort of thing can be reinforced into newer players by just telling them in chat, kicking people should never be the first option in my opinion.
I was almost kicked from a server for not being a good enough Scout in their eyes. Which is funny since I *only* played Scout because they asked me to; I wanted to play Medic but they said no. Anyway, I think my friend was there and he convinced them to keep me in but as a different class. Somebody else went Scout, I went Demo, and we won the last two waves of Mannworks easily. On that note, even with the "not fulfilling your role" point in mind, I think it's important to mention that your Scout shouldn’t be the only one getting the cash. If you kill a robot and your Scout isn't there for whatever reason, pick it up yourself. I remember having to deal with a Giant Heavy all by myself just to get the last bits of cash while the rest of my team was at spawn fighting off robots that didn’t even have the bomb on them. Then I get yelled at for missing hundreds of dollars and "pulling excuses" because, according to them, the map was empty. Oh, so that Giant Heavy that turned me into Swiss cheese was all in my head then? Either way, after I died again, I queued up for a different game, went Scout again, and didn’t miss a single buck thanks to a team that actually got their priorities straight and didn’t expect Scout to do *all* of the money collecting. TL;DR: Fulfilling your role isn't just about what class you’re playing. It's also about supporting the rest of your team so they can fulfill their own roles.
God yes, and the whole teamwork thing is why I love MVM so much. Sure you can have a few people who don't really do their "JOB" properly, but if you know what you're doing it doesn't really matter, we're all here to have fun.
That's the number one anxiety I have when playing Scout. Most players seem to have a very black and white image of what they're supposed to do - very noobish low tours will probably rush in to collect all the cash themselves because they don't know about Scout's overheal mechanic, most other players will never touch cash ever and just leave it there for Scout to pick up, even on early waves of Mannhattan, they'll leave cash at the entrance to the upper point. What the fuck do they expect me to do, run allllll the way around, to collect a little bit of cash that they could've just picked up themselves just as easily? Sometimes I intentionally ignore cash that's been left in a really stupid/inconvenient spot and let it despawn, just to spite my team for being idiots. Also it gets really fucking tiring having to explain all this to everyone in a lobby every time I play MvM, so screw them. Pick up your own damn cash, and I'll pick up the cash from the front lines.
I don't play high tour, but it's still annoying if I play scout and I hear someone say "scout, get the money" when I'm trying to make myself less killable I get that's partially my job, but if I'm upgrading you'll need to sub in for a few seconds. Scout is fast, if he's upgrading he will be back in 10 seconds
So you're the wee lad bringing all these fresh new faces into MvM, huh? Keep it up, always great to have new blood joining the gambling addiction that is two cities
I played it a bit in the past but recently got really into it, mostly just cause I really enjoy it a lot, playing Heavy with Brass Beast is super fun so I've fully decked out one with strange parts and a pro killstreak kit as well, whole thing probably cost me $40CAD, more or less. And funnily enough I mostly play Boot Camp, because usually I don't have the money to buy tickets. Recently though, I finished my first Mecha Engine tour. I got an Australium Wrench and sold it to get $92CAD back roughly. Used most of the money from it to get my decked out Brass Beast that I have now, as well as a couple cosmetics and a few MvM Tickets. Planning on doing more of Mecha Engine because I want to get an Australium Tomislav or Minigun one day, or get a different Australium and possibly sell it to buy more tickets.
@@Real_RUBB3R mecha is not profit frenly, but i guess u already knew. i never played mannup and most likely will never much of it. it aint fun being a meta™ slave.
I remember I was playing two cities once as scout, this was to collect money throw milk, and apply mini crits to all the giants, and maybe deal a bit of damage when there's no money to pick up. I chose to try to kill a sentry during the time where the robots are temporarily stunned due to capping a checkpoint, this was apparently a huge mistake. Someone on my team yelled at me to pick up a wad of cash that was 2 inches away from his feet because he saw me doing something other than picking up cash as scout (how dare I try to remove an obstacle that at the time was in it's easiest state to remove) this guy got so fucking mad that he switched off engie to play as scout (forcing the team to scramble to switch to an appropriate team comp) for the single purpose of out-scoring me, it didn't actually work (I still out-scored him). This guy also proceeded to explain that "sCoUt iSn'T MeAnt To DeaL DaMagE iN MvM!". I mean, I guess I'm to blame for not communicating to my team to tell them that there's a sentry, but did they really need to go out of their way to be an ass about it? Other than events like this, tf2 MvM has been rather chill for me, most people are rather nice about teaching me how to play optimally. It's just rare events like this that make the high tour players seem like assholes to new players. This is the reason why I usually don't play scout.
@@Hithere-uz6wd well, for most of the game they didnt say anything however when someone tried to kick the guy for being an asshole, the rest of the team voted against it despite the guy being a nuisance to the team at that point it was less so a matter of just ignoring it and more a matter of choosing to allow it and agreeing to keep the nuisance
First time playing two cities I joined a game late and the only slot left was medic, everyone else had at least a few dozen tours. I told them straight up I had no idea what I was doing and me playing medic probably wouldn't be the best option, so they let me play heavy since he was obviously a much easier class. The group was super helpful and would give me callouts on where to stand and when to move, really helped inspire hope in MvM players.
One time I joined an intermediate game on Decoy, just as the bomb was being delivered and we had to start over. Our team lacked an engy so used my standard widowmaker mvm loadout for the game. I was able to help my team get through the wave and even managed to top score. However one of the players started vote kicking me with the rest following soon after. Before I left I asked why I was being kicked, to which no one answered. To this day I still can't understand why they did it.
I always loved TF2 growing up and I'm glad there is a community to help out players from the bot crisis. Hopefully with time Valve will see that the game is still loved and will do something with it. Till now, thanks for the videos for MVM, a game mode I love putting hours in with groups!
Well, tf2 still has 50k/100k players average and it increases when Halloween ,summer or smissmas drops a case so not rly a growing up process And casual is still way more played than mvm since mvm release which is a shame but well...
Even when I’m running Demo in MVM, I’m always happy to see a gas passer pyro because there are situations where I don’t have time to set up a full sticky trap, but the Pyro lays down the gas, allowing one sticky to do so much more.
@@elvenbuttressHonestly, I hate it for trivialising so many situations. It feels like pressing the skip button on your favourite bossfight sometimes. But yeah, it is undeniably helpful, as much as I hate it
The idea that I'm not allowed to even try most of the game mode because some people want to turn MvM into paperwork instead of a video game is insane to me. If you so truly can't stand people not playing optimally then why not join some discord server with like minded people and load in with a full team rather than excluding anyone who doesn't just do what you tell them to?
One caution I also want to warn newer players is immediately press tab and check the tour count on your team as soon as you join to find out who's knowledgable about the game and identify "threats" First is simple, if they have more tours than you, they should know a thing or 2 more about MvM than you and you should listen. The later is...well... When you feel like there's a bunch of high tours and they're party-ing up together, best go with the flow or leave. Because they have the power of majority, and if you tick them off they can easily kick you out. I've seen guys kicking people who they hate at the last second of the mission; so don't think you're invincible if you trash talk them and thought you've won. Aside from all this, I'm glad there's someone who actually doesn't sugarcoat newbies and mindlessly blame high tours for everything. People often forget MvM is very different from casuals where you don't have 11 other people to carry you. If you suck, that's 1/6th of the pressure being needlessly pushed onto your team. Whereas in casual nobody cares if 1 out of 12 ppl died.
Gotta love that its not "why you keep losing" but "why you keep getting kicked"... The biggest threat to mission completion isnt the robots, its other players!
The few times people had attempted to kick me in MvM, it was always those last wave kickers to stop me from getting rewards guys. I usually play Engineer because I find that class fun but over the many years (I have been playing since 2007) have found baby sitting a level 3 sentry gun in MvM not the most fun way to play. Instead, I find gunslinger with two minis and turning my pistol into a minigun through the upgrades (trust me its insane and super fun). I usually do very well but just using this loadout tends to get people in a tizzy. However, here comes the beauty. I almost always queue with a team of 3 or 4 friends in total so when some dude tries to boot one of us on the last way, they get booted instead. So in reality, I have never been kicked in MvM thanks to always holding majority sway over the votes.
i actually reccomend switching off the gunslinger, the level 3 sentry can be replaced with an instant level up canteen, and it can be instantly built during intermission. Plus level 3 generally has more health, damage, and is more effective overall.
instead of upgrading the pistol, have you tried widowmaker, firing speed, and max metal capacity? you need to get up close, and will probably need tank and mobility upgrades for it to work great on giants and large waves, but you legitimately tank shred as fast or faster than phlog pyros.
@@megamimikyu0720 Yeah, I just don't find it is as stupid fun as the pistol minigun strat. Something about firing an a dozen shots a second out of a handgun is just really appealing to me in TF2.
The first time I played mvm i got kicked twice from the same group of people, but i kept getting their lobby and one soldier finally convinced them to help me out and show me the ropes. We ended up winning too! Hope that Soldier is doing well out there
@@numbersstationsarchive194 to be fair, people shouldnt just kick because they see someone wearing a free to play cosmetic, you should kick when you know they are a bot, not as soon as they join
I’ve been playing MvM with my friends for years and this is such a helpful guide. We genuinely hate kicking people, but we all have jobs we’ve gotta get to in the morning... failure due to someone doing these things causes us to not be able to finish our game in a timely manner. For us, the biggest win is when a “bad” player listens to our advice and becomes good or even great at a class - congratulating and being proud of that guy who autolocked spy at the start because he helped us win a game is super satisfying, but at some point, we’ve all gotta go to bed...
Ikr, so many people in this community who never even play MvM just mindlessly flame high tours for rushing and being toxic for no reasons. They need to realise most MvM players aren't here to make friends, they're here for the loot. Anything delaying that goal with no significant outcome is basically a big F U automatically.
The only time I have kicked someone is when they were playing pyro on decoy and used their air blast to purposely sabotage the team by air blasting a normal robot from start to the bomb hole in all of ten seconds for two waves in a row. So being literally worse than nothing will get you kicked
One of the most important moments in my TF2 career was when I almost got kicked for using Tomislav. I swapped to stock and then stock became my go to weapon for everything, becoming one of my favorite weapons in the game.
brass beast is the best minigun for MVM. its strength of more damage is invaluable in a gamemode filled with damage sponges, and the weaknesses matter little when you stay anchored in one spot anyway. if you can handle stock better, that will still be the best choice, but brass beast has always been my go to weapon
@@Underworlder5 Honestly the whole Stock Vs Brass Beast honestly depends on the map. If the map has plenty of chokes, use BB. But if the map is wide open, use stock, the slow down of the BB can seriously hurt you on more open maps.
A few weeks ago, I actually got my first tour. At the moment I didn’t know the ticket breaks when you use it, so i was pretty mad. The one guy who helped with sentry and dispenser spots was amazing.
I have over 200 tours which is nowhere near as much as some people but the whole thing about how if you try to give advice as a high tour youre automatically toxic is so fucking true. The other day I joined a game in progress at wave 3 and just suggested to the heavy to stay away from the dispenser cause he kept getting it killed and immediately had 2 people throwing a fit the rest of the game that I was being toxic. I was playing as scout and last wave came on Metro and I decided to switch to spy for the last wave and had a 16 tour medic rip into me calling me a dumbass and saying he paid to be in this game and I was ruining even though we were steamrolling every wave and had no problem completing.
It is generally a case to case thing, I'm at 20 something tours and the last few missions I did all had a complete asshole. One engi kept blowing me up with buster and I was fine with it the first times then said hey dude could you please not pop buster on me and that's when they got toxic. Another dude tried to kick me when I missed $45 as scout because the entire team died and I was left with a whole wave agroed on me. Also ran into a heavy who'd knock back rage sentry busters into my sentry and they had 150 tours :( Everyone else I usually run into is nice and I don't even speak during the game other than "Howdy" at the start
I hate people that judge you based on how many tours you’ve completed. You can still be good and experienced just by playing expert or advanced boot camp missions since all missions in tour of duty and boot camp are exactly the same. But some people would rather evaluate you based on how much money you waste on tour of duty tickets.
Yeah from what I can understand tours are how many times someone's played MvM or a certain thing to do with MvM (correct me if I'm wrong) and while yeah I can see why people think like that, just because someone has a bunch of tours doesn't mean that they're going to be incredible at the game, and same with low tours (I assume, again correct me if wrong I know nothing about this mode)
Refreshing to see a MvM video that isn't going full on "Muh high tours bad". I would personally add Mr. Underscore's MvM videos to the list of guides to look at. Dude do deserve more spotlight on his channel.
i missed like 10-20 credits on a rottenburg two cities match as scout and they didnt even give me a chance to redeem myself, they just kicked me on the spot
The 2 biggest headaches I remember from when I lasted play TF2 bootcamp is.. Eny who builds at last No upgrades, unable to learn about upgrades. Bootcamp was such a mess. Easiest difficulties regularly could not be completed because not enough people had a good enough clue of what they are doing.
Agreed. That actually forced me to move on from easy even though I'm not confident in my skills in hopes of finding more experienced players while praying that I won't find those toxic ones. Though what problems I faced wasn't as bad, like the engi not building in a way that watches over the bots path, turtling and some other trivial problems.
You should make a video on why the engineer is necessary in mvm as I've met some people who disagree. I agree that he's needed because of teleporters, dispenser > ammo packs, and how busted the sentry can be.
4:37 It depends on delivery, if they sound like they are questioning your sanity that can be seen as toxic, if they are offering suggestions or explanations as to why certain stuff is/isn't used thats advice
If you see a player start off with a weirdo off-meta build, give them at least one wave to see how it works. If they do their job correctly, let them do the weird thing unless you start getting stuck. If an Engie uses the Gunslinger but otherwise does his job (placing dispensers and teleporters in useful places, using his shotgun competently in place of leveled sentries, etc), he's probably not going to be a problem. If it works, it works. Another thing that's important to remember is that for all the mistakes your teammates might make, *you* are the one in charge of how you react to those mistakes. If your Scout shoots a Medic and it pops Uber on a giant, yes, that's bad. But rather than freak out, do what you can to mitigate the problem. If you're a Pyro, separate the Medic from its patient with airblasts. If you're a Medic, pop your shield to protect your teammates from the invincible giant. If you're an Engie, bring out the Wrangler, pull your buildings back, you get the idea. You can't control when others make mistakes, but when they do, you have the choice to either make the problem worse by freaking out at the goober who dropped the ball, or doing your best to pick it back up again. Making those choices correctly is an important part of being a good teammate.
This comment just seems like you're giving a free pass to low tour toxicity. Sure it makes sense to let them use the weird loadout for someone who has a good amount of tours on them, but what if they're just starting out? You can't tell if they know what they're doing or not. And sure you are a part of how you react to mistakes, but the person making said mistakes should also know how to react when they're being told about their mistakes and how they can better themselves. It feels like you're trying to argue this: "shut the fuck up if people are making mistakes and carry them even if they're making things worse for the team." Honestly good communication and understanding is really the solution to all this, and it's something both extremes don't want to engage with.
@AidGum yes, good communication is important, but it's a team game. You are a part of that team, and if you act as though everything you do is above reproach, you're creating a problem no matter how good you are. I'd rather play with a rookie who wants to have fun than a bazillion-tour god who demands everyone conform to THE META and throws a hissyfit when we don't. Also, tour counts are not a complete representation of a person's experience, and treating them as such is a common fallacy. I myself only have two tours, but I have hundreds of hours in MvM since day one of its launch and can play every class competently in it. Not all low-tour players are noobs. That's why it's important to give everyone a chance. If a player runs something weird and it works, leave them be. If they start dragging down the team, politely offer some pointers before proceeding to vote-kick territory
One time I joined a match and chose pyro, then immediately after I was getting vote kicked by another pyro for “griefing”. Fortunately my teammates didn’t kick me
Same here, I'm around 30ish tours and haven't been kicked. The main rule of thumb is "Don't be an idiot. If you are an idiot, listen to what people ask you to do." I've seen 0-tours go from YER spy to top-damaging demo in one game, all because of a little communication.
Haven't played MvM in a long time but every game I have gone through have been all chill, no one complained about the gas passer, everyone does their job and mistakes can happen, but we often take it as a laugh, it's a game.
I was pushed onto heavy, despite not wanting to play it. You know, fairs. We need what we need, I get that. But when I started using kb-rage to pin giants down, someone called me out on it. We were in the middle of the wave so I didn't see the messages at first, and when we cleared they asked if I was deaf. They demanded I get rid of that upgrade entirely, I asked why because I didn't get what was happening, and they kicked me for that. In hindsight I was probably being unintentionally annoying on damage falloff and for our sniper, but... I dunno. Still stings.
@@mishagaming1075 yeah, kb rage should be used only if the giants are advancing too far or if you're near a death trap with a giant. don't use it too much.
The archetypical beginner trap classes definitely have to be soldier and spy, pyro at least has a common function that even newer players understand, but the situations where soldier and spy are useful aren’t as common and are not the friendliest classes to just insta lock on round 1
6:12 even if game tutorials are added ,ppl will just skip them anyways and just go straight to game... same as tips unfortunately ppl arent patient nowadays in general
Keep making these awesome videos man I'm getting really invested into MVM because of you and now I have a new way to have fun in TF2 Love the work man 👍
I get the feeling like many players just blindly press F1 when a vote kick is called, while being completely unaware of who's being kicked or why. I won't F1 a vote kick unless I have undeniable evidence of poor behavior on the part of the individual. I was playing on the Halloween Upward yesterday and saw a votekick being called against the enemy Sniper, who was being called a bot. I didn't immediately F1 until I saw that Sniper spinbotting. Looking straight up, spinning, and instantly snapping right to me and landing an instant headshot with perfect precision. At that point, I understood why they were being called a bot and agreed to the votekick, because I saw for myself why they were calling for them to be kicked
The worst MvM players I've dealt with is Pocket Medics (both experienced and F2Ps) and Engineers who hog their dispensers for themselves and the ones who say "Everyone switch to Engineer!" It's literally rare to find a good Engineer for MvM and most of these selfish idiots tell people to go sit and spin when asked to share their dispenser then complain why everyone leaves
I played MvM for most of my early days, because I was under the impression that everyone in Casual was a god at the game and I was too scared to try to fight them, but I haven't been kicked from it once. Though that might be because I have only played Easy and Intermediate games consistently.
The only thing that really makes me go for a kick is when someone refuses to listen and/or learn. It's one thing to join and not be sure about the best placement of your building, the best item to equip, or maybe even the "best" class to pick (I say "best" as some fulfill their assigned jobs just as good, if not better than others with less skill required), but showing up to a gamemode where teamwork is incredibly important and then refuse to cooperate with others, is a mentality that doesn’t belong in MvM.
Amazing video man, this basically sums up all the problems I regularly come across playing mvm. Really hope the people this video is directed at will watch and learn from this and hopefully change for the better.
Newbies watching MvM guides? Next you're gonna tell me Pyro is the Queen of England. But all jokes aside most newbies I've seen all came from some MvM highlight, thinking to themselves they're great in casual with certain classes and can just clean house jumping to MvM blind. And because of that their ego is even bigger than the high tours so it's just a constant battle between them and high tours teaching.
I’ve only played free server MvM and it’s kinda always been a Wild West experience for me. People didn’t mind me playing my sniper (I’m awful at aiming, I really could it be worse) and eventually I just gravitated back toward my safety pick of Medic because I just like playing supportive classes in any online game.
My first exposure to MvM was joining a group and getting kicked before I could even purchase an upgrade. This was within the first 8 seconds of me joining the group in question. I was never given a reason and I have no clue what they kicked me for to this day.
I haven't been kicked yet and it's thanks to videos like this teaching me the basics of the game. Also a few chill high tours lending me some advice. And I return the favor to any new players.
4:55 I had to stop for a second there because your Heavy loadout almost looked exactly like mine, I have all that but a Commissar's Coat instead Also, I played Mecha Engine a couple days back, this was on Broken Parts I think, and there was this Sniper that was constantly belittling me about what I should do, the main thing being that they wanted me to switch off Heavy and go Phlog Pyro for the tank. I told them that I'll play how I want, and if it doesn't go well I'll switch to Pyro, but for one, I didn't have a Phlog at that time, and two, I'm very adamant about playing how I want. Of course, that doesn't mean I should play something memey, like Fat Scout or melee only, I know better than that. But I was just minding my own business playing Heavy and this guy was trying to dictate how I played. Mind you, I fulfilled my role just fine, I stayed up front where all the waves of bots were, because I knew that's what I should be doing as Heavy, and not focusing the tank, even if I have the Warrior's Spirit with max attack speed. We managed just fine that round, and yet this guy was still being pissy with me, and I just didn't understand why. He even went as far as to say that we "didn't manage just fine". I'm pretty sure he was dealing with the tank on his own and a Medic that round, but considering how long the tank had to travel, they were able to chew through it just fine. I understand the mentality of telling someone when they should switch off a character or weapon, whether that be the weapon is just a downgrade, like the Natascha for example, or if they just aren't fulfilling their role properly, but if someone is clearly putting in the work, I think that's the point you should stop and just let them play. The only time I say to kick someone at all is if they are doing the bare minimum and/or are just a detriment to your team, and refuse to do something about what they're doing. Otherwise, let them be, because they'll never learn what they should be doing if people just keep kicking them without providing the proper help and reinforcement. Edit: That same tour, after finishing the Decoy mission, I got an Australium Wrench. I sold it to get more TF2 shit because I don't play Engie that much compared to Heavy, so the Wrench wasn't as important to me. If I somehow get another one though, I'm definitely keeping it.
As a frequent Spy player in MvM I can say we get just as annoyed by knockback spam as Snipers do. Nothing worse than whiffing some meaty backstabs against a giant because a dumbfuck FaN Scout decided to launch it over my head, getting me killed in the process.
@@PoseidonGaming100 To be fair those guys usually end up dead whether or not I finish my job. I've seen way too many bad Scouts who forget they have a primary run headfirst into a Giant attempting to mark it only to die instantly, often not even marking them at all.
i understand ya sometimes if i run into a giant robot i just milk and mark them if it wears out ill mark them again if it draws agro on me my teamates doing the job of shooting them into piles of scrap and bolts
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 in MVM it depends. scout tends to become the tankiest class in the game due to massive overheals and buying resistances. regardless, rushing head on against a giant heavy without your overheal is a bad idea
Valve has done a terrible job to make mvm newbie friendly and when people like me who have been playing the mode since besically came out try to give advice we get shitted on for being a 'toxic high tour tryhard'
I don't usually type in game chat nor do I use voice chat, but voice commands are also usually enough. If a heavy is spamming Pootis Spencer, maybe that's a great indicator to put your dispenser anywhere else other than behind your sentry.
@@leonel392 I mean I'm sure it's not the entire server is f2p. If it is, well, they are gonna learn the hard way 80% of the time... Or rage quit, mostly all rage quit.
i was doing my first tour on twin cities and got kicked because i missed a couple dollars now i wont lie i did miss a bit but the dude who kicked me said that "we are grinding if youre just bad get better" and votekicked me, and idk what he was expecting a first tour to do, I tried to pick up as much cash as possible, but i guess that dude really hated that i wasnt perfectly picking up cash the way he wanted to
I play pyro and there are only 3 situations where I airblast -throwing bots into pits -delaying a sentry buster while engineer is dealing with something else - Stopping Giant Demoknights from murdering my medic
Airblasting the sentry buster IMO hurts more than it helps because it's better to just blow it up and get rid of it instead of keeping track of it for longer. Also, airblasting it as it's blowing up is a great way to teamkill and get vote kicked.
@@fders938 Well obviously I don't do it all the time, just if it's a situation where the Engie is busy enough that trying to do a sentry juke is likely to get him and his sentry killed by something else.
The only reason why I mostly get kicked in mvm is by a high tour because I'm playing Pyro , that's the reason , most servers I get put into are just full of low tours who uses the shittiest loadouts you will ever see
A guy tried to insta votekick me in BOOT CAMP for just picking Spy, because I wanted to try it out. That is literally the only time anyone has tried to kick me, not even when I was on Two Cities.
Y'know I ran into the strangest group. They were a mix of sweaty taco bot stereotypes but also actually willingly nice enough to teach me how to play MVM to a someone decent degree.
I’ve never been kicked from a community server. This only happens to me on Valve’s MVM servers. Once I was kicked for playing Spy another time for playing Demo. Actually now that I think about it, I was kicked from one community server because I called Bigrock “Big Cock” even though it’s an M Rated game.
I've only been kicked from an MVM tour once and funny enough it was for a bullshit reason. I used the gass passer and there was a tacobot player in my lobby
I was kicked once for “cheating” as Heavy on Mannslaughter last wave (by party queuers) because my tracking was too fast. Annoying shit but it is a rite of passage.
One annoying time that happened often was when all my teammates were focusing on killing the tank. As a result, I was left alone to fend off the bomb carriers. When the tank was finally destroyed, the robots had reached the hatch. We obviously lost. At least one of them could have helped me. I normally only go after tanks when there are either no more robots entering or half the team is focused on the robots.
Ive only started playing...but i find the idea if being kicked over stuff like this kinda crazy..who wouldnt know the obviously good upgrades and it takes one game to figure out not to bother upgrading a pistol
I think the only time I was kicked, it was because someone accidentally picked me while trying to call a votekick on the pyro that kept airblasting sentry busters into my sentries. ...That was an interesting day.
sometimes newbies and others done that other times some pyros airblast those away from the sentries i myself if it go to your sentry ill just airblast them away from all of my teamates to avoid explosion and splash damage
i was doing my 2nd ever tour (i only had 3 tickets) and decided to go steel trap instead of oil spill again, i played alot of boot camp mvm so i knew a little about what upgrades to get and weapons to use, the map was on decoy and the engineer decided to put the dispenser on the HIGHEST POINT ON THE MAP, AWAY FROM EVERYONE ELSE, RESERVED TO ONLY HIM. The other players and i were telling him to place the dispenser down here but he didnt listen and he surprisingly never got votekicked. Maybe its because without an engineer with 2way tele we wouldve lost
Ah yes I once was in a match with high tour players while I was playing pyro Let me tell you they flamed the shit out of me which is fine, I did bad and most likely common mistakes But hey, I was new to it, I play mvm on community servers I didn't know the rules And the fact that they rosted me so much that while we waited for the match to start I was siting in an corner in awkward silence with myself
Seeing this makes you really appreciate that some games don't have a vote to kick system. I remember being in a Destiny 2 Legendary Dares game with 3 randos, and one of them would definitely be the guy to call a vote kick in a heartbeat if you didn't follow his instructions to the letter, in the end he yelled at us for not attacking an invincible boss with him (Zydron), using suboptimal weapons (We're 3 random people from the world), and that he could've done the match better singlehandedly (Alright, wise guy, put your money where your mouth is while I bail from the match, hope you other two randos follow me out the door). All I can say from this experience is this, Number 11: Don't force your way of playing on others. People will be people; they have their own brands of fun. While I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to show them a better way to do something, don't force your opinion on them by shouting or berating them, because then you're the @$$ in this situation. Instead, just politely show them the way, show why your method might be better than theirs. One of 3 things happen, they listen, they don't, or they yell at you to f@ck off, the reactions are in order of yay, oh well, and vote kick respectively.
Offering advice to new players is indeed a good thing, as long as it's clear, and hopefully phrased as politely as possible to avoid sounding condescending. However, you do need a certain amount of patience with new players, since a complete newbie may be willing to learn, but not necessarily quick on the uptake. Also, making sure your advice is actually HELPFUL shouldn't need saying.......but sometimes it does. As a new player in single digit tours, I was playing some intermediate missions on Mannhattan, and didn't have a full grasp on proper protocol. Which is to say, I was shooting rockets at the Giant Medic. Nowadays, I know that damaging the Medic causes them to uber, which will cause problems for everyone else. However, the "advice" another player gave me was, "Uh Soldier, can you stop being RETARDED please?" Incredibly informative, very helpful. Almost as helpful as actually being told what I was doing wrong so that I could correct it.
Never been kicked but I watched a dude leave immediately because I had the huntsman equipped. I was swapping it out and in the chat the dude just went "Huntsman? Cringe" and then just DC'd lol. I thought that was hilarious
The Huntsman is extremely powerful! Last time I used it I had the highest dps on the team and doubled second place’s damage. It’s very hard to use for new players but it’s not a bad weapon at all.
@@nicolasrage1104 the sniper rifle just outclasses it _so hard_ though as epic tf2 banana man said in the video, it's usually not because of what you are using, it's usually because of what you AREN'T
@@LoraLoibu It’s hard to compete with explosive headshot but I will say the Huntsman can deal more damage and quicker damage to the giants than the sniper rifle. If you can slay giants fast then you can compete with a sniper rifle. While the sniper rifle will always be superior, sometimes it’s boring to just click heads while standing still, so I take the Huntsman for a ride.
I've played MvM ONCE and got kicked a few rounds into it. I was Just having fun and Could See how my build probably wasnt optimal, so i went into another one. Played again, asked about what best to Upgrade. No Response only a kick. The Last Time i tried that day i read Up on good builds, started playing again and then after a couple of rounds someone ranted i wasnt using canteens and got instantly kicked again. Never touched MvM or TF2 since.
![[TF2] Mvm's Most HATED Weapon](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JNUCMB174XA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Mvm's Most HATED Weapon](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] MvM's Hardest Achievement](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dCrPZAEJCZE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Ranking EVERY Engineer Weapon in MvM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R8QyJqKA7l8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Ranking EVERY Soldier Weapon in MvM](/img/n.gif)
Once in two cities I was playing engineer and a couple of teammates taught me where to put the sentry middle combat and the best place for the dispenser, they were incredibly helpful and wholesome to play with
a experienced mvm players sometimes do what they do best help new players i myself a new player on the tour and studied where to put the dispensers, sentries as well with body block giant robo scouts, i rarely play spy and sniper in mvm since i let the veterans what they do best and one thing is gas passer i used it for only uber medics and if the wave is to crowded if my team struggling to finish them
I was that new engie once, thankfully my team was good and told me good places to put stuff down
Same, for me they were 300 tours
@@waterendermanEE you listened, so they were nice
high tours hate the people that _don't listen_
That's cuz Ur a girl
I have only ever come across 1 person that didn't like someone using the Gas passer, it was the high tour demo queued with his Kritz medic that only healed him. He was getting out damaged and was not happy about it, tried to get our pyro kicked multiple times and eventually 4/6 waves in just straight up left, his medic parasite with him too.
We then had 2 people joined that said nothing, filled their roles and we won easily.
"Medic parasite" lol
medic girlfriend be like
I bet the demo was MADAM IM ADAM
Tf2 dhar mann
I feel like most people dislike it because it just makes certain things way too easy and other classes just don't get to actually do anything, or at least not much of anything. Though I definitely do enjoy when Pyros use it to take out Ubermeds, because as a Heavy player, I'm entirely unable to deal with them on my own. I just find it kind of disappointing personally when they just use it on a giant group of soldiers or something and I don't get to shoot a single one cause they're all dead in .2 picoseconds. Other than that, I don't usually mind it, and most of the time it's actually welcome in my books
About Point 4:
In Metro/Empire, we had a noob Engineer who flubbed on the first wave. But the high tour Soldier, in a very rare display of PURE CHILL calmy explained what items the Engineer has to pick and where the buildings serve their purpose best. The Engineer listened and we A+ the rest of the mission.
Moral: If a high tour calmly and civically explains how to perform optimally with the class picked, listen to him. His tour count lends legitimacy to his advice.
Now I want an SFM of that, but Soldier says it in Character.
Unfortunately not all low tours listen, but tis a part of nature.
@@Panzerfaust234 In that case you still should not get upset though, newer players do not deserve the anger directed at them 99.9% of the time. Ignorance is not the same as malice.
I once went through an entire MvM match with 0 voice chat communications, and 0 chat messages. We lost 0 gates, and there were no lost rounds. Just a straight shot to the finish line.
MvM is not hard, at all. If you have a competent engineer and uber medic killer, you're golden. I once beat a Rottenburg mission with 3 people, we only lost one round.
@@friendofp.24 Need 3 competent teammates for an possible game in two-cities. Cuz some of noobs keep feeding giant black box sodiers and my single target dps done jack shit. I played as demoman for bursting damage but my medic doesn't have krit we are f*cked for the entire round.
I have to changed to heavy, told engi to shared his dispenser for frontline, and a couple of classes change. After that, me and medic carried the game singlehandedly with some assistance.
If your entire team know their job, it is a breeze. But if not, it will be quite challenging.
That was actually what my first game of movm was like
@@friendofp.24for reals
There was a guy who did X6 and there ARE X6 singkr class mvm servers
They really are easy just like in pubs with competent team. Especially since robots are predictable. The A.I. coding for bots in TF2 and L4D2 are really bad lol.
@@newturtle3Question. Have you ever tried mvm without upgrades?
i remember my most toxic experience was with a 5 stack of high tours, i was maining demo at the time and was learning how to be good with it in mvm, i was actually doing a pretty good job but turns out, the high tours i met had a spreadsheet of minimum damage a class should do per wave and per siege of robots, i was 113 damage off of their "good" class for the 2nd to last siege of robots before the tour ended and i was kicked, i really hope those people never get another australium honestly
Bruh, if you’re still clearing the waves at a relatively ok pace with minimum issues, then there shouldn’t be any problems. Judging someone by “how little contribution to overall damage” is dumb. I hope you found better games after.
I'm your 69th like.
A spreadsheet? Lmaoooooo
They need to go outside 🥴
“Erm ACTUALLY you missed one pipe on a scout, I personally believe you will bring about the death of Mann co, f1 everyone!”
Minimum damage wtf ?
Medic players stop existing off the surface of the planet now
I have only ever been kicked out of an MvM game one time before. It was on a two cities tour, and a high tour got extremely upset over someone playing pyro (It was on Manhattan). He kept asking if the pyro saw any tanks. Now, to be fair, we didn't handle the situation in the most polite manner because we already saw the guy as extremely rude, but the entire rest of the party started joking around and going "Idk what you're talking about man. We all see the tank in the HUD." Regardless, the entire party was fine with having a pyro with us, but the high tour got so upset that he went out of his way to change his name and reconnect to the game and kept saying that he was going to afk until he got his items. Now, we weren't exactly the best players, but we were able to handle a few waves down a player. Eventually some people left because it became clear that we weren't gonna handle it the best. The high tour actually invited bot accounts to join in as spy and just sit in spawn. He then proceeded to votekick people since he had the numbers advantage. He sat there for a good 30 minutes minimum complaining about the fact that he wasn't going to play with a pyro instead of just going to a different game. Like, I can understand the frustration, but if the majority of the server is fine with it and you aren't, why not just leave and find a new game?
They feel as though everybody should follow then and it's really sad, I left a game where everybody else left, leaving the taco bot to his devices. He didn't have push to talk and it was always active so the last word I heard was 'shit'
I don’t understand the tacobotter’s dislike of the gas passer just because it’s a good weapon and makes the waves slightly easier. If they don’t want the game to be too easy, why don’t they also hate engineers? Engies make missions way too easy: they provide infinite ammo, have a server side aimbot, can turn that aimbot into a 2,000 HP tank and the engie himself does almost nothing in the meanwhile.
@@bezel95 I can kind of understand a little more after having frequented Wave 666. At some point, your goal isn't just to clear the missions anymore. It's the exact same thing over and over again, so challenging yourself to hit certain milestones using certain classes becomes more of a priority. For instance, I wanted to play spy, and a puro kept spamming gas, which quite literally meant that I was sitting there for 20-30 minutes doing absolutely nothing while the pyro farmed everything. There's no incentive to complete 666. As a result, I can honestly understand the hatred for the weapon (I still think removing someone from the game forcibly is wrong, but I definitely see where they're coming from). As for engineer, one could at least argue that engineers have a specific role to play in preventing something like a wave of scouts from just rushing the bomb. They can act as a fail-safe for a very specific situation, whereas the gas passer is never really ineffective, and extremely spammable.
It's kinda stupid to poke the hornet's nest when you knew that it was going to explode and you don't even know a way to defend yourself from the stings. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's stupid.
@@bloopy273 Nobody was really upset at the way that he acted. We all just found it incredibly entertaining. Not only that, but we weren't gonna stand for that unironic sort of behavior in the lobby, and we made that very clear. Ultimately, while it ended up a waste of time for us, it was even more of a waste of time and resources for him.
Regarding the communication point, I noticed that just using the mercs own voices can be enough to bridge that language barrier since most people will probably play the game in a language they can understand, meaning they also will be able to understand the mercs voices...so even if you are the most unsocial person and dont want to interact with anyone at all, the least you can do is use the voice comands
Even if you're F2P, *NOD YOUR HEAD, OTHER PLAYERS CAN SEE THAT*
It looks stupid, but it works
I honestly cant take seriously a player using the MEEEEDIC voicelines (even on casual) becuase they just spam that voiceline mostly when they dont need it
Just like the put dispenser here voiceline cuz uhuhuhuhu funi meme pootis huhuhuhu
So yeah, tf2 community in general cant be taken seriously
@@Ultra289 the dispenser one could also just be someone trying to tell a new Engi where to put his dispencer...not that the Engi will undetdtand it...but there an attempt
@@DustD.Reaper the dispensers are always in the same places speaking for valve maps only which are always ideal yet these individuals keep spamming the voicelines ,some even spam it too much for pretty much no reason, its just impossible to take tf2 community seriously
Even a noob knows where to spawn the dispensers even after retreat in all valve maps
@@Ultra289 I meant that as in the team telling the Engi to not hog the dispenser for himself and putting it to where the team is
I think the gas passer's "lack of skill" is actually important because it allows someone who would normally be "dead weight" on any other class to actually contribute to the team
I fully agree with this. But that is just bad game design.
Seems good at first but players who use gas never have actually end up learning how to play MvM.
I’ve seen some people with like 10+ tours have no idea what the fuck to do because someone else went gas pyro
@@scrowfunk8109 > *Seems good at first but players who use gas never have actually end up learning how to play MvM. *
What do you mean?
@@DanknDerpyGamer people who use gas do "good enough" in mvm as to not be scrutinized for their poor game sense, mechanics upgrades etc.
@@scrowfunk8109 *Laugh in Explosive Headshot*
I was once playing boot camp on expert waves and I came across a team that wanted to use the “meta” so I went along with it and picked heavy. When the wave with the tanks came ( we were on Mannworks) I decided I would go pyro and take on the tanks, I announced in chat that I was using the gas passer because I didn’t know what other pyro secondary’s where good at the time. I got no response in chat, no response over vc, just a vote kick that went through. And that is why I don’t play expert anymore.
Wow, not even a response like “um, actually blah blah blah” or just a simple “no”? That’s rough man. Hope you had better tours after.
Never tells new players how to be good. Kicks them. Gets mad new players aren’t good.
Or just don't play with sweaty virgins
Surprising as it may sound I’ve never been kicked in MvM. But I did inadvertently get someone ELSE kicked. I was playing medic and our demo was apparently VIOLENTLY offended that I dared to give anyone but him krits, so after he learned he couldn’t bully me into it, he tried to get me vote kicked. It failed, then everyone kicked him to get the whining to stop, and I was the only one in the group that was good at medic
Very deserved.
Just because you aren't shoving your healing beam into his ass doesn't mean you should be kicked.
He could just get health on kill if he needed healing that bad, or crit canteens.
Actually haven't thought about being a new player who accidentally ticked the join mid-game box. Nice thing to take a note of.
hi dewill
I dont get kicked very often, but I do start vote kicks relativly often. And that is when some toxic ''good'' mvm players are trash talking to new players. Now, Im not saying you should just let the clueless pyro run in and die constantly, but you can teach without insulting people. Being polite goes a long way to improve the experience for the entire team, not just the new player.
Yes, but 90% of those Pyros I've met either completely ignore us, pulls out a bible-length excuse as to why they only main Pyro, or call us elitists. And I only had 340-ish tours. Imagine someone else higher than that who have to put up with those kinds of people every tour they see, of course they're gonna have a very negative impression towards you, thus being toxic without even realising it.
It's called stigmatising. It's not healthy, but we humans aren't perfect either.
Keep in mind: if you kick the toxic good players, the new players are often left with no one to carry them, and will fail repeatedly until they give up and quit. And in doing so, they can ruin the experience for those around them just as surely as any toxic player does. Is that really a better outcome than seeing them soaking up a few insults? Sometimes you just gotta let the "tough love" happen--the new players might be new to MvM, but they aren't new to the internet, or gaming, or the toxicity that comes with both. They always have the option of the mute button if they don't enjoy the abuse.
At the end of the day, you have to be careful, because you might be doing more harm than good by trying to punish toxicity.
I'd 100% prefer losing over and over because of a newblood than having to listen to some high tour dictator spewing thrash at people cuz he ain't getting his virtual numbers
@@matheusvasiliauskassoares4361 agreed. even if you do well and know exactly what to do, i will still consider you a bad teammate if you spew bile at the team. even if they won, those teammates are going to leave the game with a sour impression because you yelled at them all the time
@@lsdave42 There's a difference between being legitimately toxic and questioning another player's decisions (such as why are you scout and not picking cash? why are you building on last engineer? why do you not have upgrades?).
Trash talking is not valuable and is annoying. I don't care if you are good, screw off.
Though when it comes to verbal toxicity (Voice chat or text chat) i do lean towards using the mute features that TF2 has. Still I have no qualms about kicking the toxic guy.
I've only played MvM twice, and I enjoyed both games. My team had some experience, but they seemed fairly new as well. We never talked, we failed a few rounds multiple times, but we stayed together and pulled through. Beforehand I had never watched or read a guide, I was going in pretty blind, but I figured out what upgrades are good and it seems to have lined up with what competent players use (medic and soldier being my favorite classes helps though). There could be a lot of improvements in game to teach new players what to do, but having aspirations to improve and a team that gives time to figure it out, it's intuitive enough for any competent person to teach themselves
hey your the guy who traded me, no way
Doing is the best learning
Same, but I used engie and discovered by myself that buying Dispenser Range was a good idea well I did bougth Disposable Sentry but I was using the Frontier Justice and dealt a lot of damage and helped the Heavy that had less experience. Yeah that was my first and only time I played MVM and enjoyed it, everything is better from the first time I guess.
@@cat3584 i doubt the gatekeepers will ever listen
Yea the problem with MvM bootcamp last time I played it is that competency was lacking.
Eny who builds at last
3 Scouts team comp
Scouts that do not collect cash
No Upgrades, unable to comprehend that there is an upgrade station even with team mates who do their best to inform them
Bad in general people. This is more of a gray area but it does get annoying when you can't beat the easiest difficulties because you're down a player, 2 of other players can't pull a stick let alone their own weight, and the remaining 2 players are average Joes.
BTW there's nothing wrong with average Joes. Average joes are the casuals who can do something. They probably aren't going to carry but they can do something.
I’ve only been kicked because my username was “Friendly Texan” and someone said there’s no such thing as a friendly Texan, he then convinced the server to kick me
"We're not gambling with money, but we're gambling with time"
tickets:
Boot Camp:
@@Hithere-uz6wd You don't get items in Boot Camp, meaning that there's no gambling in there
@@PloVv-hu4qt I know but that's not really what weezy meant when he said that
another reason for getting kicked would be "readying up too fast" because that's not giving time to others like engi, medic and demo to ready up buildings, ubers and traps... curiously enough I never got kicked from MvM, had a good teacher
Very true, I've seen people get pissy because someone didn't unready and let our Engie set up. But usually that sort of thing can be reinforced into newer players by just telling them in chat, kicking people should never be the first option in my opinion.
@@Real_RUBB3R worst part is that some ppl completely ignores chat, even after 100 warnings :c which would lead to getting kicked
I've never gotten kicked either since I never play Mann up mode and players on boot camp tend to just dick around more often than not
I have only ever encountered the opposite. When people just spam F4 the second the wave ends and gives no one time to prepare
but like i mean even if everyone readies up except engi he still has loads of time to setup lol
I was almost kicked from a server for not being a good enough Scout in their eyes. Which is funny since I *only* played Scout because they asked me to; I wanted to play Medic but they said no.
Anyway, I think my friend was there and he convinced them to keep me in but as a different class. Somebody else went Scout, I went Demo, and we won the last two waves of Mannworks easily.
On that note, even with the "not fulfilling your role" point in mind, I think it's important to mention that your Scout shouldn’t be the only one getting the cash. If you kill a robot and your Scout isn't there for whatever reason, pick it up yourself.
I remember having to deal with a Giant Heavy all by myself just to get the last bits of cash while the rest of my team was at spawn fighting off robots that didn’t even have the bomb on them. Then I get yelled at for missing hundreds of dollars and "pulling excuses" because, according to them, the map was empty.
Oh, so that Giant Heavy that turned me into Swiss cheese was all in my head then? Either way, after I died again, I queued up for a different game, went Scout again, and didn’t miss a single buck thanks to a team that actually got their priorities straight and didn’t expect Scout to do *all* of the money collecting.
TL;DR: Fulfilling your role isn't just about what class you’re playing. It's also about supporting the rest of your team so they can fulfill their own roles.
God yes, and the whole teamwork thing is why I love MVM so much. Sure you can have a few people who don't really do their "JOB" properly, but if you know what you're doing it doesn't really matter, we're all here to have fun.
The first line of sentence was me one day.
That's the number one anxiety I have when playing Scout. Most players seem to have a very black and white image of what they're supposed to do - very noobish low tours will probably rush in to collect all the cash themselves because they don't know about Scout's overheal mechanic, most other players will never touch cash ever and just leave it there for Scout to pick up, even on early waves of Mannhattan, they'll leave cash at the entrance to the upper point. What the fuck do they expect me to do, run allllll the way around, to collect a little bit of cash that they could've just picked up themselves just as easily? Sometimes I intentionally ignore cash that's been left in a really stupid/inconvenient spot and let it despawn, just to spite my team for being idiots. Also it gets really fucking tiring having to explain all this to everyone in a lobby every time I play MvM, so screw them. Pick up your own damn cash, and I'll pick up the cash from the front lines.
I don't play high tour, but it's still annoying if I play scout and I hear someone say "scout, get the money" when I'm trying to make myself less killable
I get that's partially my job, but if I'm upgrading you'll need to sub in for a few seconds.
Scout is fast, if he's upgrading he will be back in 10 seconds
So you're the wee lad bringing all these fresh new faces into MvM, huh?
Keep it up, always great to have new blood joining the gambling addiction that is two cities
the slowest slot machine renamed as two cities, glad i dont play t.o.d. mvm
I played it a bit in the past but recently got really into it, mostly just cause I really enjoy it a lot, playing Heavy with Brass Beast is super fun so I've fully decked out one with strange parts and a pro killstreak kit as well, whole thing probably cost me $40CAD, more or less. And funnily enough I mostly play Boot Camp, because usually I don't have the money to buy tickets. Recently though, I finished my first Mecha Engine tour. I got an Australium Wrench and sold it to get $92CAD back roughly. Used most of the money from it to get my decked out Brass Beast that I have now, as well as a couple cosmetics and a few MvM Tickets. Planning on doing more of Mecha Engine because I want to get an Australium Tomislav or Minigun one day, or get a different Australium and possibly sell it to buy more tickets.
@@Real_RUBB3R mecha is not profit frenly, but i guess u already knew. i never played mannup and most likely will never much of it. it aint fun being a meta™ slave.
Wait, people DONT play Russian roulette flip the coin on the kick screen?
ok, i dunno who to ask, but why do i see soilders using beggars' in mvm specifically?
I remember I was playing two cities once as scout, this was to collect money throw milk, and apply mini crits to all the giants, and maybe deal a bit of damage when there's no money to pick up. I chose to try to kill a sentry during the time where the robots are temporarily stunned due to capping a checkpoint, this was apparently a huge mistake. Someone on my team yelled at me to pick up a wad of cash that was 2 inches away from his feet because he saw me doing something other than picking up cash as scout (how dare I try to remove an obstacle that at the time was in it's easiest state to remove) this guy got so fucking mad that he switched off engie to play as scout (forcing the team to scramble to switch to an appropriate team comp) for the single purpose of out-scoring me, it didn't actually work (I still out-scored him). This guy also proceeded to explain that "sCoUt iSn'T MeAnt To DeaL DaMagE iN MvM!". I mean, I guess I'm to blame for not communicating to my team to tell them that there's a sentry, but did they really need to go out of their way to be an ass about it?
Other than events like this, tf2 MvM has been rather chill for me, most people are rather nice about teaching me how to play optimally. It's just rare events like this that make the high tour players seem like assholes to new players. This is the reason why I usually don't play scout.
Why call the team an ass when the ass was that guy
@@Hithere-uz6wd the team was allowing it
@@electrisoma As in they didn't say anything? Or as in they were agreeing?
@@Hithere-uz6wd well, for most of the game they didnt say anything
however when someone tried to kick the guy for being an asshole, the rest of the team voted against it despite the guy being a nuisance to the team
at that point it was less so a matter of just ignoring it and more a matter of choosing to allow it and agreeing to keep the nuisance
Ok
First time playing two cities I joined a game late and the only slot left was medic, everyone else had at least a few dozen tours. I told them straight up I had no idea what I was doing and me playing medic probably wouldn't be the best option, so they let me play heavy since he was obviously a much easier class. The group was super helpful and would give me callouts on where to stand and when to move, really helped inspire hope in MvM players.
One time I joined an intermediate game on Decoy, just as the bomb was being delivered and we had to start over. Our team lacked an engy so used my standard widowmaker mvm loadout for the game. I was able to help my team get through the wave and even managed to top score.
However one of the players started vote kicking me with the rest following soon after. Before I left I asked why I was being kicked, to which no one answered. To this day I still can't understand why they did it.
its a bug, once u vote, u cant change it. maybe the other teammates muscle memory to kickin bots in casual slipped in
I don’t think thats a bug
Yiu were using the mini sentry werent you
@@MajorMasonGaming oh fuck me i just realised
If you had the Gunslinger, that might be why. Assuming you didn’t have the Gunslinger, I’m just as dumbfounded as you.
I always loved TF2 growing up and I'm glad there is a community to help out players from the bot crisis. Hopefully with time Valve will see that the game is still loved and will do something with it.
Till now, thanks for the videos for MVM, a game mode I love putting hours in with groups!
Well, tf2 still has 50k/100k players average and it increases when Halloween ,summer or smissmas drops a case so not rly a growing up process
And casual is still way more played than mvm since mvm release which is a shame but well...
so much has happened since this comment lol
"You must play the quickest and DPS optimized way"
"noOoOOooOOoO!!! you can't use gas! It's way too easy!!!" _crying wojack_
when there is no demoman to take down the uber meds: okay then. enjoy losing, lads
"he he funny gas go DING" laughs in chad
Even when I’m running Demo in MVM, I’m always happy to see a gas passer pyro because there are situations where I don’t have time to set up a full sticky trap, but the Pyro lays down the gas, allowing one sticky to do so much more.
@@elvenbuttressHonestly, I hate it for trivialising so many situations.
It feels like pressing the skip button on your favourite bossfight sometimes.
But yeah, it is undeniably helpful, as much as I hate it
@@Aaa-vp6ug And you are allowed to hate it! It does feel like it makes some things too easy. I completely understand.
The idea that I'm not allowed to even try most of the game mode because some people want to turn MvM into paperwork instead of a video game is insane to me. If you so truly can't stand people not playing optimally then why not join some discord server with like minded people and load in with a full team rather than excluding anyone who doesn't just do what you tell them to?
Kick player: in the balls?
F1: Yes F2:No
I'm coming up on 40 tours and i've only been kicked once and it was for not participating in all engineer on two cities.
Didnt miss out on much.
One caution I also want to warn newer players is immediately press tab and check the tour count on your team as soon as you join to find out who's knowledgable about the game and identify "threats"
First is simple, if they have more tours than you, they should know a thing or 2 more about MvM than you and you should listen.
The later is...well... When you feel like there's a bunch of high tours and they're party-ing up together, best go with the flow or leave. Because they have the power of majority, and if you tick them off they can easily kick you out. I've seen guys kicking people who they hate at the last second of the mission; so don't think you're invincible if you trash talk them and thought you've won.
Aside from all this, I'm glad there's someone who actually doesn't sugarcoat newbies and mindlessly blame high tours for everything. People often forget MvM is very different from casuals where you don't have 11 other people to carry you. If you suck, that's 1/6th of the pressure being needlessly pushed onto your team. Whereas in casual nobody cares if 1 out of 12 ppl died.
Gotta love that its not "why you keep losing" but "why you keep getting kicked"... The biggest threat to mission completion isnt the robots, its other players!
The few times people had attempted to kick me in MvM, it was always those last wave kickers to stop me from getting rewards guys. I usually play Engineer because I find that class fun but over the many years (I have been playing since 2007) have found baby sitting a level 3 sentry gun in MvM not the most fun way to play.
Instead, I find gunslinger with two minis and turning my pistol into a minigun through the upgrades (trust me its insane and super fun). I usually do very well but just using this loadout tends to get people in a tizzy. However, here comes the beauty. I almost always queue with a team of 3 or 4 friends in total so when some dude tries to boot one of us on the last way, they get booted instead. So in reality, I have never been kicked in MvM thanks to always holding majority sway over the votes.
i actually reccomend switching off the gunslinger, the level 3 sentry can be replaced with an instant level up canteen, and it can be instantly built during intermission. Plus level 3 generally has more health, damage, and is more effective overall.
I love democracy
instead of upgrading the pistol, have you tried widowmaker, firing speed, and max metal capacity? you need to get up close, and will probably need tank and mobility upgrades for it to work great on giants and large waves, but you legitimately tank shred as fast or faster than phlog pyros.
@@megamimikyu0720 Yeah, I just don't find it is as stupid fun as the pistol minigun strat. Something about firing an a dozen shots a second out of a handgun is just really appealing to me in TF2.
The first time I played mvm i got kicked twice from the same group of people, but i kept getting their lobby and one soldier finally convinced them to help me out and show me the ropes. We ended up winning too! Hope that Soldier is doing well out there
Also forgot to mention, I was being kicked before the game even started. The team saw I had a Gibbus and was like, "nope kicked" lmaoo
@@tanichiYT To be fair, that's what you get for wearing a gibus/goggles/merc badge, that isn't really exclusive to MvM.
@@numbersstationsarchive194 What is a gibus
@@numbersstationsarchive194 to be fair, people shouldnt just kick because they see someone wearing a free to play cosmetic, you should kick when you know they are a bot, not as soon as they join
I’ve been playing MvM with my friends for years and this is such a helpful guide. We genuinely hate kicking people, but we all have jobs we’ve gotta get to in the morning... failure due to someone doing these things causes us to not be able to finish our game in a timely manner. For us, the biggest win is when a “bad” player listens to our advice and becomes good or even great at a class - congratulating and being proud of that guy who autolocked spy at the start because he helped us win a game is super satisfying, but at some point, we’ve all gotta go to bed...
Ikr, so many people in this community who never even play MvM just mindlessly flame high tours for rushing and being toxic for no reasons. They need to realise most MvM players aren't here to make friends, they're here for the loot. Anything delaying that goal with no significant outcome is basically a big F U automatically.
@@theotv5522 then start your own server you fucking gatekeepers jfc
@@theotv5522 this is the most toxic high tour statement I've heard so far, lol
@@theotv5522 contradicted yourself
@@CoolDude-ts2hc don't see how that's "toxic". it's definitely unfriendly but I hate how the toxic word gets thrown around so much
The only time I have kicked someone is when they were playing pyro on decoy and used their air blast to purposely sabotage the team by air blasting a normal robot from start to the bomb hole in all of ten seconds for two waves in a row. So being literally worse than nothing will get you kicked
One of the most important moments in my TF2 career was when I almost got kicked for using Tomislav. I swapped to stock and then stock became my go to weapon for everything, becoming one of my favorite weapons in the game.
brass beast is the best minigun for MVM. its strength of more damage is invaluable in a gamemode filled with damage sponges, and the weaknesses matter little when you stay anchored in one spot anyway. if you can handle stock better, that will still be the best choice, but brass beast has always been my go to weapon
@@Underworlder5 Honestly the whole Stock Vs Brass Beast honestly depends on the map.
If the map has plenty of chokes, use BB.
But if the map is wide open, use stock, the slow down of the BB can seriously hurt you on more open maps.
0:10 bots won that lobby
But they lost the war
A few weeks ago, I actually got my first tour. At the moment I didn’t know the ticket breaks when you use it, so i was pretty mad. The one guy who helped with sentry and dispenser spots was amazing.
I have over 200 tours which is nowhere near as much as some people but the whole thing about how if you try to give advice as a high tour youre automatically toxic is so fucking true. The other day I joined a game in progress at wave 3 and just suggested to the heavy to stay away from the dispenser cause he kept getting it killed and immediately had 2 people throwing a fit the rest of the game that I was being toxic. I was playing as scout and last wave came on Metro and I decided to switch to spy for the last wave and had a 16 tour medic rip into me calling me a dumbass and saying he paid to be in this game and I was ruining even though we were steamrolling every wave and had no problem completing.
True
Which I why I just don't say anything unless it's hilariously obvious
It is generally a case to case thing, I'm at 20 something tours and the last few missions I did all had a complete asshole. One engi kept blowing me up with buster and I was fine with it the first times then said hey dude could you please not pop buster on me and that's when they got toxic. Another dude tried to kick me when I missed $45 as scout because the entire team died and I was left with a whole wave agroed on me. Also ran into a heavy who'd knock back rage sentry busters into my sentry and they had 150 tours :(
Everyone else I usually run into is nice and I don't even speak during the game other than "Howdy" at the start
I hate people that judge you based on how many tours you’ve completed. You can still be good and experienced just by playing expert or advanced boot camp missions since all missions in tour of duty and boot camp are exactly the same. But some people would rather evaluate you based on how much money you waste on tour of duty tickets.
Yeah from what I can understand tours are how many times someone's played MvM or a certain thing to do with MvM (correct me if I'm wrong) and while yeah I can see why people think like that, just because someone has a bunch of tours doesn't mean that they're going to be incredible at the game, and same with low tours
(I assume, again correct me if wrong I know nothing about this mode)
Refreshing to see a MvM video that isn't going full on "Muh high tours bad". I would personally add Mr. Underscore's MvM videos to the list of guides to look at. Dude do deserve more spotlight on his channel.
So many videos out there say that high tours are bad because a lot of times it's often true. Especially if they're Tacobot dickweeds.
The unwritten rule of mvm is you're not allowed to have fun
i missed like 10-20 credits on a rottenburg two cities match as scout and they didnt even give me a chance to redeem myself, they just kicked me on the spot
The 2 biggest headaches I remember from when I lasted play TF2 bootcamp is..
Eny who builds at last
No upgrades, unable to learn about upgrades.
Bootcamp was such a mess. Easiest difficulties regularly could not be completed because not enough people had a good enough clue of what they are doing.
Agreed. That actually forced me to move on from easy even though I'm not confident in my skills in hopes of finding more experienced players while praying that I won't find those toxic ones.
Though what problems I faced wasn't as bad, like the engi not building in a way that watches over the bots path, turtling and some other trivial problems.
i mainly play bootcamp cus atlest in bootcamp people wont loose thier shit when you make one mistake
You should make a video on why the engineer is necessary in mvm as I've met some people who disagree. I agree that he's needed because of teleporters, dispenser > ammo packs, and how busted the sentry can be.
4:37
It depends on delivery, if they sound like they are questioning your sanity that can be seen as toxic, if they are offering suggestions or explanations as to why certain stuff is/isn't used thats advice
If you see a player start off with a weirdo off-meta build, give them at least one wave to see how it works. If they do their job correctly, let them do the weird thing unless you start getting stuck. If an Engie uses the Gunslinger but otherwise does his job (placing dispensers and teleporters in useful places, using his shotgun competently in place of leveled sentries, etc), he's probably not going to be a problem. If it works, it works.
Another thing that's important to remember is that for all the mistakes your teammates might make, *you* are the one in charge of how you react to those mistakes. If your Scout shoots a Medic and it pops Uber on a giant, yes, that's bad. But rather than freak out, do what you can to mitigate the problem. If you're a Pyro, separate the Medic from its patient with airblasts. If you're a Medic, pop your shield to protect your teammates from the invincible giant. If you're an Engie, bring out the Wrangler, pull your buildings back, you get the idea.
You can't control when others make mistakes, but when they do, you have the choice to either make the problem worse by freaking out at the goober who dropped the ball, or doing your best to pick it back up again. Making those choices correctly is an important part of being a good teammate.
This comment just seems like you're giving a free pass to low tour toxicity.
Sure it makes sense to let them use the weird loadout for someone who has a good amount of tours on them, but what if they're just starting out? You can't tell if they know what they're doing or not.
And sure you are a part of how you react to mistakes, but the person making said mistakes should also know how to react when they're being told about their mistakes and how they can better themselves.
It feels like you're trying to argue this: "shut the fuck up if people are making mistakes and carry them even if they're making things worse for the team."
Honestly good communication and understanding is really the solution to all this, and it's something both extremes don't want to engage with.
@AidGum yes, good communication is important, but it's a team game. You are a part of that team, and if you act as though everything you do is above reproach, you're creating a problem no matter how good you are. I'd rather play with a rookie who wants to have fun than a bazillion-tour god who demands everyone conform to THE META and throws a hissyfit when we don't.
Also, tour counts are not a complete representation of a person's experience, and treating them as such is a common fallacy. I myself only have two tours, but I have hundreds of hours in MvM since day one of its launch and can play every class competently in it. Not all low-tour players are noobs. That's why it's important to give everyone a chance. If a player runs something weird and it works, leave them be. If they start dragging down the team, politely offer some pointers before proceeding to vote-kick territory
One time I joined a match and chose pyro, then immediately after I was getting vote kicked by another pyro for “griefing”. Fortunately my teammates didn’t kick me
I've actually never been kicked after 50+ tours, but most the kicks I have seen are for these reasons. Great video!
Same here, I'm around 30ish tours and haven't been kicked. The main rule of thumb is "Don't be an idiot. If you are an idiot, listen to what people ask you to do."
I've seen 0-tours go from YER spy to top-damaging demo in one game, all because of a little communication.
wonderful vid, its nice to see some mvm content that isnt just whining about high tours for being bad at the game
On my opinion, the Shortstop's alt fire is perfect for pushing robots that are almost setting up the bomb
Aight
thats why i love to use it
Haven't played MvM in a long time but every game I have gone through have been all chill, no one complained about the gas passer, everyone does their job and mistakes can happen, but we often take it as a laugh, it's a game.
lucky you, I always get stuck in five stacks with high tours that I so desperately want to dox
I was pushed onto heavy, despite not wanting to play it. You know, fairs. We need what we need, I get that. But when I started using kb-rage to pin giants down, someone called me out on it. We were in the middle of the wave so I didn't see the messages at first, and when we cleared they asked if I was deaf. They demanded I get rid of that upgrade entirely, I asked why because I didn't get what was happening, and they kicked me for that. In hindsight I was probably being unintentionally annoying on damage falloff and for our sniper, but... I dunno. Still stings.
Fun fact, if you have knockback rage, YOU SHOOT SLOWER.
@@mishagaming1075 yeah, kb rage should be used only if the giants are advancing too far or if you're near a death trap with a giant. don't use it too much.
The archetypical beginner trap classes definitely have to be soldier and spy, pyro at least has a common function that even newer players understand, but the situations where soldier and spy are useful aren’t as common and are not the friendliest classes to just insta lock on round 1
6:12 even if game tutorials are added ,ppl will just skip them anyways and just go straight to game... same as tips
unfortunately ppl arent patient nowadays in general
Keep making these awesome videos man I'm getting really invested into MVM because of you and now I have a new way to have fun in TF2
Love the work man 👍
I get the feeling like many players just blindly press F1 when a vote kick is called, while being completely unaware of who's being kicked or why. I won't F1 a vote kick unless I have undeniable evidence of poor behavior on the part of the individual. I was playing on the Halloween Upward yesterday and saw a votekick being called against the enemy Sniper, who was being called a bot. I didn't immediately F1 until I saw that Sniper spinbotting. Looking straight up, spinning, and instantly snapping right to me and landing an instant headshot with perfect precision. At that point, I understood why they were being called a bot and agreed to the votekick, because I saw for myself why they were calling for them to be kicked
The worst MvM players I've dealt with is Pocket Medics (both experienced and F2Ps) and Engineers who hog their dispensers for themselves and the ones who say "Everyone switch to Engineer!"
It's literally rare to find a good Engineer for MvM and most of these selfish idiots tell people to go sit and spin when asked to share their dispenser then complain why everyone leaves
I've played a few rounds of MvM, but I always played with friends, so I have fortunately never had to go through this
I played MvM for most of my early days, because I was under the impression that everyone in Casual was a god at the game and I was too scared to try to fight them, but I haven't been kicked from it once. Though that might be because I have only played Easy and Intermediate games consistently.
Thank you for talking about the people who absolutely refuse to take good-fatih advice, man those people are absolute assholes in any game.
“I play however I want stfu” mfs when they choose to queue for a team based pve gamemode and get kicked for not playing with the team
Except that one time i got kicked in casual after joining the match and choosing pyro
The only thing that really makes me go for a kick is when someone refuses to listen and/or learn. It's one thing to join and not be sure about the best placement of your building, the best item to equip, or maybe even the "best" class to pick (I say "best" as some fulfill their assigned jobs just as good, if not better than others with less skill required), but showing up to a gamemode where teamwork is incredibly important and then refuse to cooperate with others, is a mentality that doesn’t belong in MvM.
Amazing video man, this basically sums up all the problems I regularly come across playing mvm. Really hope the people this video is directed at will watch and learn from this and hopefully change for the better.
Newbies watching MvM guides? Next you're gonna tell me Pyro is the Queen of England.
But all jokes aside most newbies I've seen all came from some MvM highlight, thinking to themselves they're great in casual with certain classes and can just clean house jumping to MvM blind. And because of that their ego is even bigger than the high tours so it's just a constant battle between them and high tours teaching.
@@theotv5522 true
I’ve only played free server MvM and it’s kinda always been a Wild West experience for me. People didn’t mind me playing my sniper (I’m awful at aiming, I really could it be worse) and eventually I just gravitated back toward my safety pick of Medic because I just like playing supportive classes in any online game.
Boot Camp is like the Floridia of TF2 Servers
My first exposure to MvM was joining a group and getting kicked before I could even purchase an upgrade. This was within the first 8 seconds of me joining the group in question. I was never given a reason and I have no clue what they kicked me for to this day.
I haven't been kicked yet and it's thanks to videos like this teaching me the basics of the game. Also a few chill high tours lending me some advice. And I return the favor to any new players.
4:55 I had to stop for a second there because your Heavy loadout almost looked exactly like mine, I have all that but a Commissar's Coat instead
Also, I played Mecha Engine a couple days back, this was on Broken Parts I think, and there was this Sniper that was constantly belittling me about what I should do, the main thing being that they wanted me to switch off Heavy and go Phlog Pyro for the tank. I told them that I'll play how I want, and if it doesn't go well I'll switch to Pyro, but for one, I didn't have a Phlog at that time, and two, I'm very adamant about playing how I want. Of course, that doesn't mean I should play something memey, like Fat Scout or melee only, I know better than that. But I was just minding my own business playing Heavy and this guy was trying to dictate how I played. Mind you, I fulfilled my role just fine, I stayed up front where all the waves of bots were, because I knew that's what I should be doing as Heavy, and not focusing the tank, even if I have the Warrior's Spirit with max attack speed. We managed just fine that round, and yet this guy was still being pissy with me, and I just didn't understand why. He even went as far as to say that we "didn't manage just fine". I'm pretty sure he was dealing with the tank on his own and a Medic that round, but considering how long the tank had to travel, they were able to chew through it just fine.
I understand the mentality of telling someone when they should switch off a character or weapon, whether that be the weapon is just a downgrade, like the Natascha for example, or if they just aren't fulfilling their role properly, but if someone is clearly putting in the work, I think that's the point you should stop and just let them play. The only time I say to kick someone at all is if they are doing the bare minimum and/or are just a detriment to your team, and refuse to do something about what they're doing. Otherwise, let them be, because they'll never learn what they should be doing if people just keep kicking them without providing the proper help and reinforcement.
Edit: That same tour, after finishing the Decoy mission, I got an Australium Wrench. I sold it to get more TF2 shit because I don't play Engie that much compared to Heavy, so the Wrench wasn't as important to me. If I somehow get another one though, I'm definitely keeping it.
As a frequent Spy player in MvM I can say we get just as annoyed by knockback spam as Snipers do. Nothing worse than whiffing some meaty backstabs against a giant because a dumbfuck FaN Scout decided to launch it over my head, getting me killed in the process.
Not only do they get you killed but whatever chump did it to you usually dies immediately afterwards because you didn't get to finish you job
@@PoseidonGaming100 To be fair those guys usually end up dead whether or not I finish my job. I've seen way too many bad Scouts who forget they have a primary run headfirst into a Giant attempting to mark it only to die instantly, often not even marking them at all.
i understand ya sometimes if i run into a giant robot i just milk and mark them if it wears out ill mark them again if it draws agro on me my teamates doing the job of shooting them into piles of scrap and bolts
FaN scouts who run right into the fray are stupid. It's like they forget that scout IS A FLANKING CLASS.
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 in MVM it depends. scout tends to become the tankiest class in the game due to massive overheals and buying resistances. regardless, rushing head on against a giant heavy without your overheal is a bad idea
Valve has done a terrible job to make mvm newbie friendly and when people like me who have been playing the mode since besically came out try to give advice we get shitted on for being a 'toxic high tour tryhard'
I don't usually type in game chat nor do I use voice chat, but voice commands are also usually enough. If a heavy is spamming Pootis Spencer, maybe that's a great indicator to put your dispenser anywhere else other than behind your sentry.
If you are a f2p then it's kinda hard to communicate
@@leonel392 I mean I'm sure it's not the entire server is f2p. If it is, well, they are gonna learn the hard way 80% of the time... Or rage quit, mostly all rage quit.
i was doing my first tour on twin cities and got kicked because i missed a couple dollars now i wont lie i did miss a bit but the dude who kicked me said that "we are grinding if youre just bad get better" and votekicked me, and idk what he was expecting a first tour to do, I tried to pick up as much cash as possible, but i guess that dude really hated that i wasnt perfectly picking up cash the way he wanted to
Can’t wait for more or your videos, every single one is very entertaining. This one was no exception
I play pyro and there are only 3 situations where I airblast
-throwing bots into pits
-delaying a sentry buster while engineer is dealing with something else
- Stopping Giant Demoknights from murdering my medic
thx lad you a good pyro
that pyro is a LAD
and your my fellow pyro i done as you but if a demo is absent well gas passer to get those uber medics turn them into molten scrap selling
Airblasting the sentry buster IMO hurts more than it helps because it's better to just blow it up and get rid of it instead of keeping track of it for longer. Also, airblasting it as it's blowing up is a great way to teamkill and get vote kicked.
@@fders938 Well obviously I don't do it all the time, just if it's a situation where the Engie is busy enough that trying to do a sentry juke is likely to get him and his sentry killed by something else.
tf2 banana man is pretty epic
The only reason why I mostly get kicked in mvm is by a high tour because I'm playing Pyro , that's the reason , most servers I get put into are just full of low tours who uses the shittiest loadouts you will ever see
Anyone who hates the Gas Passer in MvM Mann Up works harder, not smarter.
A guy tried to insta votekick me in BOOT CAMP for just picking Spy, because I wanted to try it out.
That is literally the only time anyone has tried to kick me, not even when I was on Two Cities.
8:52 I have to ask, is that a pyrocynical reference? lol
Y'know I ran into the strangest group. They were a mix of sweaty taco bot stereotypes but also actually willingly nice enough to teach me how to play MVM to a someone decent degree.
I’ve never been kicked from a community server. This only happens to me on Valve’s MVM servers. Once I was kicked for playing Spy another time for playing Demo. Actually now that I think about it, I was kicked from one community server because I called Bigrock “Big Cock” even though it’s an M Rated game.
I've only been kicked from an MVM tour once and funny enough it was for a bullshit reason. I used the gass passer and there was a tacobot player in my lobby
0:40 Man, I miss that server.
I was kicked once for “cheating” as Heavy on Mannslaughter last wave (by party queuers) because my tracking was too fast. Annoying shit but it is a rite of passage.
gas passer is insanely op in mvm, it's pretty much just a better grenade launcher
One annoying time that happened often was when all my teammates were focusing on killing the tank. As a result, I was left alone to fend off the bomb carriers. When the tank was finally destroyed, the robots had reached the hatch. We obviously lost. At least one of them could have helped me. I normally only go after tanks when there are either no more robots entering or half the team is focused on the robots.
Ive only started playing...but i find the idea if being kicked over stuff like this kinda crazy..who wouldnt know the obviously good upgrades and it takes one game to figure out not to bother upgrading a pistol
I once got kicked went to join another server and ended up on the same one
7:24 is the moment you earned my sub. I fucking love this shit lmao
I don't get the joke
I think the only time I was kicked, it was because someone accidentally picked me while trying to call a votekick on the pyro that kept airblasting sentry busters into my sentries.
...That was an interesting day.
sometimes newbies and others done that other times some pyros airblast those away from the sentries i myself if it go to your sentry ill just airblast them away from all of my teamates to avoid explosion and splash damage
that is just unfortunate
"Pyro, why are you using the degreaser" if i was not f2p i would say "Its because i don't have anything better to use"
i was doing my 2nd ever tour (i only had 3 tickets) and decided to go steel trap instead of oil spill again, i played alot of boot camp mvm so i knew a little about what upgrades to get and weapons to use, the map was on decoy and the engineer decided to put the dispenser on the HIGHEST POINT ON THE MAP, AWAY FROM EVERYONE ELSE, RESERVED TO ONLY HIM. The other players and i were telling him to place the dispenser down here but he didnt listen and he surprisingly never got votekicked. Maybe its because without an engineer with 2way tele we wouldve lost
Ah yes
I once was in a match with high tour players while I was playing pyro
Let me tell you they flamed the shit out of me which is fine, I did bad and most likely common mistakes
But hey, I was new to it, I play mvm on community servers
I didn't know the rules
And the fact that they rosted me so much that while we waited for the match to start I was siting in an corner in awkward silence with myself
11:11 I mean in Mann Up mode you pay for a ticket right? So that would mean the ftp comminication block would be removed? Or am I missing something?
It is hard but possible to trade for it (you can trade items you receive from other players)
10:14 Cries in F2P
11:10 - 11:17
Seeing this makes you really appreciate that some games don't have a vote to kick system. I remember being in a Destiny 2 Legendary Dares game with 3 randos, and one of them would definitely be the guy to call a vote kick in a heartbeat if you didn't follow his instructions to the letter, in the end he yelled at us for not attacking an invincible boss with him (Zydron), using suboptimal weapons (We're 3 random people from the world), and that he could've done the match better singlehandedly (Alright, wise guy, put your money where your mouth is while I bail from the match, hope you other two randos follow me out the door). All I can say from this experience is this,
Number 11: Don't force your way of playing on others.
People will be people; they have their own brands of fun. While I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to show them a better way to do something, don't force your opinion on them by shouting or berating them, because then you're the @$$ in this situation. Instead, just politely show them the way, show why your method might be better than theirs. One of 3 things happen, they listen, they don't, or they yell at you to f@ck off, the reactions are in order of yay, oh well, and vote kick respectively.
Offering advice to new players is indeed a good thing, as long as it's clear, and hopefully phrased as politely as possible to avoid sounding condescending.
However, you do need a certain amount of patience with new players, since a complete newbie may be willing to learn, but not necessarily quick on the uptake. Also, making sure your advice is actually HELPFUL shouldn't need saying.......but sometimes it does.
As a new player in single digit tours, I was playing some intermediate missions on Mannhattan, and didn't have a full grasp on proper protocol. Which is to say, I was shooting rockets at the Giant Medic. Nowadays, I know that damaging the Medic causes them to uber, which will cause problems for everyone else. However, the "advice" another player gave me was, "Uh Soldier, can you stop being RETARDED please?" Incredibly informative, very helpful. Almost as helpful as actually being told what I was doing wrong so that I could correct it.
Never been kicked but I watched a dude leave immediately because I had the huntsman equipped. I was swapping it out and in the chat the dude just went "Huntsman? Cringe" and then just DC'd lol. I thought that was hilarious
Sounds like a dude who spends too much time shitposting anyways. At least he had the decency to piss off.
The Huntsman is extremely powerful! Last time I used it I had the highest dps on the team and doubled second place’s damage. It’s very hard to use for new players but it’s not a bad weapon at all.
@@nicolasrage1104 the sniper rifle just outclasses it _so hard_ though
as epic tf2 banana man said in the video, it's usually not because of what you are using, it's usually because of what you AREN'T
@@LoraLoibu It’s hard to compete with explosive headshot but I will say the Huntsman can deal more damage and quicker damage to the giants than the sniper rifle. If you can slay giants fast then you can compete with a sniper rifle. While the sniper rifle will always be superior, sometimes it’s boring to just click heads while standing still, so I take the Huntsman for a ride.
@@nicolasrage1104 sometimes unoptimal strats are fun :)
demoknight tf2 gang
2:44 yeah asmon should change his shirt
the biggest mvm mistake is paying for tickets and letting valve make money off a game they don't support
the first ever mvm match i’ve been to, noone ever kicked me and we actually won, in two cities too
I've played MvM ONCE and got kicked a few rounds into it. I was Just having fun and Could See how my build probably wasnt optimal, so i went into another one. Played again, asked about what best to Upgrade. No Response only a kick. The Last Time i tried that day i read Up on good builds, started playing again and then after a couple of rounds someone ranted i wasnt using canteens and got instantly kicked again. Never touched MvM or TF2 since.