+Rex _ I actually came to say the complete opposite! I know about and completely understand hyperthreading - the Intel explanation with their own animation explains it all perfectly.. Okay, so it starts out simple enough - the one mouth, 2 hands thing sort-of made sense. Although I don''t really think it made it simpler! Then, by the end I was totally lost.. we had moved on to two scoop ice cream cones and the dangers of eating the cone first. Then, out of nowhere, bowls of candy seem to be the ultimate method of CPU core optimisation.... wat! It's much easier to explain hyperthreading than this culinary madness!
***** Lol, that's really funny. My doorbell just rang and my Friday night delivery just arrived. I'm tping this reply with greasy fingers from all the food that just arrived. I love my food! I just don't need the eating of it described in such explicit detail in order to explain how a processor works!
"In an ideal world, lots of physical processors, each with hyperthredding, is where it's at" Fast forward to 2021 when we can get reasonably fast 8 cores 16 thread processors for 300$ I really love watching old tech vids because it feels like I'm from the future
It's especially interesting to me when I see people working on early computers from the 70s and 80s like the kind of stuff Commodore or their rivals made and see the specs compared to today.
Both the summary below the video and the section 2:45 to 2:58 are the answer. If you want the ideal system as well as gaming power just buy a 2 core 4 thread cpu with fast memory to feed it as most games run 3-4 threads.
The hand-mouth analogy is actually perfect for explaining the fetch-execute cycle, but having two hands has little to do with simultaneous multithreading; it's analogous to increasing the memory bandwidth, i.e. the amount of food that can be delivered to the mouth per minute.
yes this is 100% correct , and still you want to have hyper threading , to bad that my cpu is the most powerful part of my laptop and my gpu is sh*t since i have i7 4 cores 8 threads with turbo boost up to 3.2ghz and my damn gpu is a gt635m 2gb :(
darkki94 well my cpu is an amd a10-4600m with 4 cores and 4 threads turbo up to 3.2ghz and the radeon 7660g igpu. I wish it was as good as it sounds. gets really hot
dude. i've been watching your vids from this channel and linustechtips and ncix techtips for the past few weeks. i've always love all about computer but never really know much about them. your videos really helps me understand the basic. thank you.
this was really helpful. I always assumed I needed a more "powerful" processor because I watch dvd& bluray movies (I rip my discs and watch the mkv files) and stream online. I do a bit of photo editing, but that's about it. I play no games. And I had no idea what the terms core or hyper threading meant until I watched your videos. Thanks.. you make learning about computers exciting and easy to understand. It's not such a scary world afterall..
Wow! I have a great example of this. Just last week, I took a process I have and made it into a multithreaded process. It's the building of a navigation mesh for pathfinding in video games. The process I started with was single threaded and it took 52 minutes to build for my huge level. I made it work on building two tiles at once and this brought it down to 26 minutes exactly. Then, I made it use 4 threads and, as expected, the build time dropped to 13 minutes! WOW! I know that it's only a quad core so, if I try for more than 4 threads, it's going to try to use hyper threading. What the heck, let's try! 6 threads....12 minutes!! :( 8 threads, 11.5 minutes! HA... hyper threading didn't help me much at all. More CORES freakin' rules!
But, Linus, if you add more mouths, you only have one throat for all the food to go down, and one stomach, so it would just all back up and you'd bottleneck yourself
Ferg F I did, but if he literally adds more mouths when his throat is only designed to take food from one mouth it's all going to block up there if he's taking in 2 or 3 times as much food
another way to think about it is a ramp meter on a freeway by taking 2 lanes of traffic trying to enter the freeway at the same time but by using the lights to schedule when they can enter the flow of traffic it increases speed and and the volume entering (i hope this was helpful)
I remember the advent of dual cores, it was a massive breakthrough in computing for the average consumer. At that point in time waiting for common things like browsers, media players, and folders basically went extinct. The ability of the computer to have a free processor open for you to access those things instantly meant that it didn't have to drop background processing to open the program you'd requested. Even going from a 3.8ghz single core to a 1.86ghz dual core is a big improvement just because of this fact.
The most known hyperthreading processor is the Intel Pentium 4 HT. It was the last variant of the Pentium 4, and was featured on standard desktops, as well as on DTR/Media Center laptops.
Hey Linus, great video presentation! Perfect way to break down the topic for those who don't understand. I will be re-visiting your video to teach some friends!
Just in case people are interested, this very good analogy more accurately describes Super-scalar processing techniques in general, of which hyper-threading is just one method. Others include things like out-of-order execution, more efficient branch prediction and register renaming, all of which try to eliminate different parts of the processing pipeline from being left redundant.
Watching your videos actually helps me be able to explain these kinds of things better, rather than to simply understand what they are in technical terms, and not be able to explain them at all. I used to be so terrible with analogies, and your videos help. I've been wanting to do a tech channel for the longest time. Unlike you and others, however, I don't have the resources and/or tech to do such things, despite pursuing a potential career.
Very helpful video, thanks. I would love to see a video about why voice recognition software still sucks. I struggled with Dragon for months before finally giving up and uninstalling it. I have had similar results with Google Docs voice typing.
Think of it more this way...HyperThreading uses pieces of the processor which are not otherwise in use. For example, if an instruction for a floating point multiply of one floating register with another is followed by a memory fetch to an integer register, while the FPU is computing the product, the memory fetch circuitry would be otherwise unused/idle. So instead of waiting for the FPU to finish, the memory fetch goes straight to the ALU, thus executing a floating multiply and the memory fetch at the same time. Obviously, this can only be scheduled thusly if there are no conflicts, for example the floating multiply cannot reference the same memory area as output which is being fetched in the next instruction (which is why above I specified the FPU was working with registers).
+Kenny Hempson Hey, I've just done a build for my friend that has been planning to build a PC. These are the parts (maybe it helps you!): CPU: i5 4690k Motherboard: Gigabyte H97 Gaming 3 GPU: Asus Strix 960 4GB RAM: 2x Kingston DDR3 4GB 1333Mhz HDD: Western Digital 2TB Green PSU: XFX 650W SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 128GBs It's not a really high end PC, it's a mid high one I'd say. I made it with components that I found in my country (Argentina), so I think that maybe u can change the PSU and the MoBo. If you're planning on building a +$2000 PC, I have one and I can give you the list of components :). GL!
I was wondering to myself what hyper-threading was and thought "Wait, Techquickie probably has a video about that." Glad to see I was right haha. Thanks.
I have to side with DarkFox on this one. The target audience isn't a bunch of grannies trying to figure out how to check their email. We're slightly more advanced than that :P
***** If only I could save this as a quote somewhere.. You worded it perfectly, I'd say. I deal with a lot of retirees at work and they seem to break things in the most unexplainable ways because of their ignorance and lack of wanting to learn them.. It truly frustrates me trying to explain the simple things, like turning on, click this, enter this password and SN this way.. Then trying to explain how to operate CCTV systems to said person, and it just goes on and on and on in that endless cycle of never getting anywhere. It's both endlessly frustrating for me, yet probably just as frustrating for them not being able to understand the basic stuff.. On topic of OP, I both liked the analogy yet thought it was simplified too much. I fully understand him doing it though, because I find myself doing the same thing most every day.
yeah for just gaming its a tad silly, as even an Pentium/i3 can play modern games without any bottleneck, however.. you can buy the xeons are basically higher grade i7s, so.. if you bought one of the cheaper ones it would be a better deal than buying an i5 for about the same price.
Here are a few reasons: cheaper, more reliable (they're for servers), no wasteful integrated gpu, lower tdp, almost identical perfomance to some i7 cpu, cool names Some games do take advantage of better cpu such as Starcraft 2, skyrim, guild wars 2, rome 2 and many other
Ha Do well the xeons are nice because they can give you hyperthreading quad cores cpu's for the price of a quad core not hyper threaded i5.. sure.. but what if you want to overclock it? :) the xeons are awesome cpu' but i would only buy it for a budget workstation.. as said before.. even i3's can easily handle modern game titles :) so if gaming is all that is on your mind.. you might be good with a OC'ed i5?
MrHearthofSIN To each their own i guess. I don't like to oc and don't feel comfortable oc. I don't have the good mobo to oc anyway. It's true that i3 can game easily given how gpu bound most games are nowadays but i like to have a little future proof with my cpu and low tdp as well.
This was super informative and easy to understand coming from someone who learns quickly but has absolutely ZERO base knowledge of computers and their computing. Haha. Thank-you so much! :-)
1:05 I think you're describing superscalar processors more than hyper-threaded ones (Intels are superscalar since P4 architecture (and I don't mean Pentium IV)). HT uses concepts of superscalarity, but for improving performance of different tasks on a processor. It would be better to describe HT as doing two different things at a time: eating and writing a blogpost maybe? And sharing resources not needed by the other task (left hand for eating, right hand for typing).
sooo basically AMD has the upper hand over Intel CPUs in games that dont support hyperthreading at all which is most of them despite the "lying benchmarks and other digital data generated by corporate registered programs" says? interesting, now i understand why they opted for more cores and better clockspeed rather than less cores and hyperthreading of some sort and why my A10-7850K outperforms an i5 in ArmA 3 >.>
forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-did-not-invent-hyperthreading.302829/ Says it was not AMD just some engineer working for Intel discovers it d patient is not quite the same.
This is why AMD has always had superior multithreading performance. Their FX-8350 trashes many i7s in multithreading, and even some i7Es were left in the dust. Bear in mind that this is not a processor made to compete against anything more than i5s. It holds it's own pretty well.
TopTenOnEverything I don't have a link for you, but what I do know is a lot of AMD CPUs excel in multi-core performance, as most of their CPUs contain 8 cores, whilst Intel is focused on less cores (they usually use 4) and more performance per single core. I use the i7-4770k, and it is a powerhouse, but it is up to you to decide which is better, but in all honesty I would just stick with Intel.
JFTGames Yah I have the 4770k too and I know the AMD-8350 is a good CPU and may beat i7s in stuff like virtual machines, but I'm pretty sure most multithreaded things like video editing favors intel.
JFTGames Yah wouldn't multicore be virtual machines and screen recording while multithreaded would be like video editing? Because "kemoka77" said the 8350 "trashes many i7s in multithreading" and I don't believe that.
DX12 utilizes multicores and multithreads. The smoothspot is at 8cores and 8 threads, as shown in a video I saw. Any more cores doesn't give much more FPS. So for gaming an Intel i7 5960X is the smoothspot, but is very costy.
Like he mentioned, HT has it's own use for certain application. For gaming, I find it absolutely useful since they are highly demanding with it comes to cpu/gpu, you never know until you execute the application.
Linus, can you guys do a video where you compare hyperthreaded to non-hyperthreaded processors with every other specs the same to see what kind of gains there are in both synthetics, games, and multi threaded tasks like video rendering, and even gaming and streaming at the same time.
That's why the current server program I'm developing now not only uses threads, it creates a pool for incoming connections, when those connections out number the amount of threads I have assigned for the server. By using this approach, I don't have to worry about having more data to process than my cores can handle and I don't have to actually use all cores for the server itself (which would strain the server). My server program also calculates the average amount of time it takes to finish one thread processing job. This feedback allows me to calculate just how many players to place on the server, all while keeping a certain average thread processing time. My program can also act as an entry server or normal server. This setup allows me to easily add on more game worlds just by simply adding a new server and passing that info to the entry level server. The entry level server will then detect the new server and start filling it up with new players once the current server is filled. It will function the same even if I add multiple new servers at one time. I always felt, if you're going to develop a server side, make it as easy as possible to maintain on that side of things.
Even games won't utilize 2 or even 4 processors at all times even with (or without} threading.. If you understand the point he is making. A game is an essentially an application, and it still spends time waiting for the next move before it can process the next thread. It can (and does) try to predict what the next move will be, but it can't process the next frame until it knows what it is going to be. So obviously the game is not using all 4 cores all the time. Because there aren't threads waiting in line, as the man said. Then when the next frame is known it can use however many processors it wants to to display the next frame or action. That's why it helps to run extra GPUs to add the speed boost necessary for fast seamless action.
I like this format for AFAP better than the newer format. This style is slower, less stuff thrown in your face, and easier to digest (see what i did there? lol). It seems like they are trying to make their newer AFAP videos shorter and still contain the same amount of content, if not more...its a little overwhelming.
Since the initial Core i series (back with 3-digit model numbers), the i7 is the HyperThreaded counterpart to the i5. Example: Core i7 2600K V. i5 2500K, both have 4 physical cores and can be overclocked, but the i7 has HT on it whilst the i5 does not. In your case, the bigger questions are: GPU power & V-RAM, System RAM & Storage Space. GPU & V-RAM are gonna be taxed by the game, Sys-RAM is gonna be used by everything running, drive space is gonna be consumed by FRAPS recording.
I got a "new laptop" in July of 2013, it has an 2.4Ghz i7 3630QM, and basically everything I do (since I don't game of video edit) has NEVER taken more than about 35% of it's processing power. It's insane how optimized/advanced/threaded/cored a modern processor is. For my basic youtubing and Photoshopping needs this computer will probably be gauged only by the components life, ie a graphics card failure or motherboard failure etc. I could see me using this computer for 10 years easy since I don't use 1/3 of it's potential.
Quick tip High grade processor beats 2 lower grade processors. Processes that dont allow multithreading are constrained to the total speed of 1 processor.
My experience with hyperthreading is quite bad, on older Core i CPUs on laptops. After upgrading to Win 10 a problem of high latency appeared, with constant massive spikes which caused audio dropouts, video stuttering and general lag. After about a month of suffering I finally stumbled on the solution: disable hyperthreading in BIOS setup. So apparently HT can lock up whole CPU for pretty long time, when a device driver code is running, or any code servicing IRQ-s I guess. With HT turned off this almost doesn't happen.
it actaully has 8 physical cores. it has 4 modules with 8 Integer cores (x86/x86-64) and it has 8 128bit FPU's. It only has 1 set of decoders per module and it has to combine both 128bit FPUs for AVX instructions (which aren't used too often anyway). But other than that it is capable of processing 8 threads at the same time on 8 separate cores.
I was in a room of computer science majors and we were trying to guess what hyperthreading actually did, and no one got it. Thanks for clearing it up for us!
In Summary (with my own points), Hyperthreading is the proprietary approach of Intel to Multi-threading. Bare-bones multithreading is dependent on the Operating-System(OS) installed. Compared to hyperthreading, w/c is multithreading built-in to the hardware regardless of the OS. Though the OS will stil contribute, but this method is more effecient Built-in is always awesome haha :)
+Techquickie Well, you forgot about one important thing. Even single-threaded processes are actually NOT single threaded. Actually, all the processes run consistently kernel functions, which run in another, specialized kernel-mode thread. Also, the system itself needs to jump in regularly even if you don't run any kernel functions, and of course it has its own thread for that. So, even a single-threaded process is actually a two-threaded processes. If the operating system can set up the processor to hyperthread the kernel thread (I don't know if it can do that though), then single-threaded processes can speed up because switching threads is an expensive business without hyperthreading, and most processes run thousands of kernel-mode functions each second. Windows 7 and above use many-to-many multithreading model, which means, that one process can have many kernel threads assigned, but a process must have at least one kernel thread.
You forgot to mention the fact that when there is a switch between logical cores, the second process can pull new data into the cache, thus wiping out the first process's cache and upon returning to the first process, slowing down significantly due to cache misses.
Your food analogy really made this so easy to understand. Thanks Linus! Now I'm going to get some pizza.
+Rex _
use two hands, gotta keep that mouth busy
+Rex _ it was a really good choice to get some breakfast before my little "Oh snap, I wanna know more about CPUs and Motherboard" marathon :D
+Rex _ I actually came to say the complete opposite! I know about and completely understand hyperthreading - the Intel explanation with their own animation explains it all perfectly.. Okay, so it starts out simple enough - the one mouth, 2 hands thing sort-of made sense. Although I don''t really think it made it simpler! Then, by the end I was totally lost.. we had moved on to two scoop ice cream cones and the dangers of eating the cone first. Then, out of nowhere, bowls of candy seem to be the ultimate method of CPU core optimisation.... wat!
It's much easier to explain hyperthreading than this culinary madness!
Tom Walter You just don't love food enough lol
***** Lol, that's really funny. My doorbell just rang and my Friday night delivery just arrived. I'm tping this reply with greasy fingers from all the food that just arrived. I love my food! I just don't need the eating of it described in such explicit detail in order to explain how a processor works!
"In an ideal world, lots of physical processors, each with hyperthredding, is where it's at"
Fast forward to 2021 when we can get reasonably fast 8 cores 16 thread processors for 300$
I really love watching old tech vids because it feels like I'm from the future
But also in 2021 they are out of stock
@@nczioox1116 they aren't though lol
It's especially interesting to me when I see people working on early computers from the 70s and 80s like the kind of stuff Commodore or their rivals made and see the specs compared to today.
@been guy who gives a shit about ryzen, there's other options to buy
CPUs has never been out of stock
I mean, you are from the future
First I was just confused. Now I'm confused and hungry. Thanks.
Raptor302 lol. Right
hilarious
Lmao
Cant stop laughing 🤣🤣🤣
Both the summary below the video and the section 2:45 to 2:58 are the answer. If you want the ideal system as well as gaming power just buy a 2 core 4 thread cpu with fast memory to feed it as most games run 3-4 threads.
The hand-mouth analogy is actually perfect for explaining the fetch-execute cycle, but having two hands has little to do with simultaneous multithreading; it's analogous to increasing the memory bandwidth, i.e. the amount of food that can be delivered to the mouth per minute.
so: 4 cores with 4 threads > 2 cores and 4 threads?
Any day.
yes, because you have 2 more cores for processes if I understood correctly
yes this is 100% correct , and still you want to have hyper threading , to bad that my cpu is the most powerful part of my laptop and my gpu is sh*t since i have i7 4 cores 8 threads with turbo boost up to 3.2ghz and my damn gpu is a gt635m 2gb :(
darkki94 well my cpu is an amd a10-4600m with 4 cores and 4 threads turbo up to 3.2ghz and the radeon 7660g igpu. I wish it was as good as it sounds. gets really hot
LaymanExpert AMD have heat issues a lot from what I hear
In an Ideal world lots of physical processors each with hyperthreading, is were its at.
AMD : YES.
AMD: Hey guys that sounds like a good idea lets do that.
with some sketchy marketing during the FX period.-
dude. i've been watching your vids from this channel and linustechtips and ncix techtips for the past few weeks. i've always love all about computer but never really know much about them. your videos really helps me understand the basic. thank you.
so hyper threading has to do with food?
Very much so.
xD
Are you fucking kidding me, bro?
***** I KNEW IT! I BEEN HYPER THREADING SINCE I WAS A LITTLE BOY
And helicopter piloting
so lets review: what is hyperthreading? "Sewing really fast"
+TechMania ManiaHD hahaha
+TackStash779 lol
+Elite Ninja I got 'chewing' really fast from this video!
But what is sewing? :ooooo
Alexis Diaz lol
This was really informative and easily understood, thanks Linus! I still haven't stopped learning from you yet, even after almost three years.
10 yrs
this was really helpful. I always assumed I needed a more "powerful" processor because I watch dvd& bluray movies (I rip my discs and watch the mkv files) and stream online. I do a bit of photo editing, but that's about it. I play no games. And I had no idea what the terms core or hyper threading meant until I watched your videos. Thanks.. you make learning about computers exciting and easy to understand. It's not such a scary world afterall..
Wow! I have a great example of this. Just last week, I took a process I have and made it into a multithreaded process. It's the building of a navigation mesh for pathfinding in video games. The process I started with was single threaded and it took 52 minutes to build for my huge level. I made it work on building two tiles at once and this brought it down to 26 minutes exactly. Then, I made it use 4 threads and, as expected, the build time dropped to 13 minutes! WOW!
I know that it's only a quad core so, if I try for more than 4 threads, it's going to try to use hyper threading. What the heck, let's try! 6 threads....12 minutes!! :( 8 threads, 11.5 minutes! HA... hyper threading didn't help me much at all. More CORES freakin' rules!
But, Linus, if you add more mouths, you only have one throat for all the food to go down, and one stomach, so it would just all back up and you'd bottleneck yourself
Ferg F I did, but if he literally adds more mouths when his throat is only designed to take food from one mouth it's all going to block up there if he's taking in 2 or 3 times as much food
Ferg F Fair enough, let me watch this again
It's An Example Of PCI-E Lane Bottlenecking
another way to think about it is a ramp meter on a freeway by taking 2 lanes of traffic trying to enter the freeway at the same time but by using the lights to schedule when they can enter the flow of traffic it increases speed and and the volume entering (i hope this was helpful)
@@HunterS0502 lol
I remember the advent of dual cores, it was a massive breakthrough in computing for the average consumer. At that point in time waiting for common things like browsers, media players, and folders basically went extinct. The ability of the computer to have a free processor open for you to access those things instantly meant that it didn't have to drop background processing to open the program you'd requested. Even going from a 3.8ghz single core to a 1.86ghz dual core is a big improvement just because of this fact.
Please do a video on TDP vs Power Consumption, people need to know the difference.
The most known hyperthreading processor is the Intel Pentium 4 HT. It was the last variant of the Pentium 4, and was featured on standard desktops, as well as on DTR/Media Center laptops.
Oh, I thought this was about sewing...
this comment deserves more likes
Hey Linus, great video presentation! Perfect way to break down the topic for those who don't understand. I will be re-visiting your video to teach some friends!
Just in case people are interested, this very good analogy more accurately describes Super-scalar processing techniques in general, of which hyper-threading is just one method. Others include things like out-of-order execution, more efficient branch prediction and register renaming, all of which try to eliminate different parts of the processing pipeline from being left redundant.
"Heaven help you if you try to eat the cone first" HAHAHA, omg, i just spat everywhere! :D
And this is how a tech video gives me the munchies
lol
So true! I actually paused the video and hit the fridge
Watching your videos actually helps me be able to explain these kinds of things better, rather than to simply understand what they are in technical terms, and not be able to explain them at all. I used to be so terrible with analogies, and your videos help. I've been wanting to do a tech channel for the longest time. Unlike you and others, however, I don't have the resources and/or tech to do such things, despite pursuing a potential career.
Yay! now i can eat candy faster with my new core i3.
Only i7's can eat candy faster, Intel didn't give hyperthreading to the others, poor others.
Yeah i3:s are dual core with hyperthreading i5 is quad w/o hyperthreading and all lga 1055 / 1050 etc. i7:s are quad cores with hyperthreading
Ha, my bad!
: )
9666mikki some i5's do have HT though
1:45 Just wow, at the creativity behind your idea.
Multi-threading cannot be explained so well like this video... Thumbs Up million times!!!
This is such a great explanation video. Much appreciated Linus!
Very helpful video, thanks. I would love to see a video about why voice recognition software still sucks. I struggled with Dragon for months before finally giving up and uninstalling it. I have had similar results with Google Docs voice typing.
Not my college instructor referring the entire class to this video lol
Linus you rock, keep doing what you do!
Think of it more this way...HyperThreading uses pieces of the processor which are not otherwise in use. For example, if an instruction for a floating point multiply of one floating register with another is followed by a memory fetch to an integer register, while the FPU is computing the product, the memory fetch circuitry would be otherwise unused/idle. So instead of waiting for the FPU to finish, the memory fetch goes straight to the ALU, thus executing a floating multiply and the memory fetch at the same time. Obviously, this can only be scheduled thusly if there are no conflicts, for example the floating multiply cannot reference the same memory area as output which is being fetched in the next instruction (which is why above I specified the FPU was working with registers).
thank you this is really helping me build my first computer
+Dr IllumiNAUGHTY not yet still trying to understand what main board i need :)
+Dr IllumiNAUGHTY thank you how can i tell if the main board i want ir for gaming ?
+Dr IllumiNAUGHTY thanks dude
+Kenny Hempson
Hey, I've just done a build for my friend that has been planning to build a PC. These are the parts (maybe it helps you!):
CPU: i5 4690k
Motherboard: Gigabyte H97 Gaming 3
GPU: Asus Strix 960 4GB
RAM: 2x Kingston DDR3 4GB 1333Mhz
HDD: Western Digital 2TB Green
PSU: XFX 650W
SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 128GBs
It's not a really high end PC, it's a mid high one I'd say. I made it with components that I found in my country (Argentina), so I think that maybe u can change the PSU and the MoBo.
If you're planning on building a +$2000 PC, I have one and I can give you the list of components :).
GL!
+Santi5010 thanks dude . sure send me the details :). i am switzerland so i can easily get parts
"And heaven help you if you're trying to eat the cone first".😂😂😂
Best simplified description of hyper threading ever. Thanks
I was wondering to myself what hyper-threading was and thought "Wait, Techquickie probably has a video about that."
Glad to see I was right haha. Thanks.
Instructions unclear, hand stuck in toaster.
Decent video but the analogies almost dumb it down too much.
JustStat My mistake. I assumed the target audience for this video to be advanced beyond the average layman.
I have to side with DarkFox on this one. The target audience isn't a bunch of grannies trying to figure out how to check their email. We're slightly more advanced than that :P
***** If only I could save this as a quote somewhere.. You worded it perfectly, I'd say. I deal with a lot of retirees at work and they seem to break things in the most unexplainable ways because of their ignorance and lack of wanting to learn them.. It truly frustrates me trying to explain the simple things, like turning on, click this, enter this password and SN this way.. Then trying to explain how to operate CCTV systems to said person, and it just goes on and on and on in that endless cycle of never getting anywhere. It's both endlessly frustrating for me, yet probably just as frustrating for them not being able to understand the basic stuff..
On topic of OP, I both liked the analogy yet thought it was simplified too much. I fully understand him doing it though, because I find myself doing the same thing most every day.
It always brightens my day when someone uses an eating analogy.
For clarity and enlightenment this guy takes the biscuit...thank you !
1:24 LMAO IM DYING XDDDDD I LOST MY SHIT MAN IM DONE.
+Ross Linden Go find your shit then.
***** Long gone man... :(
Ross Linden Damn it. rip shit..
***** ikr :( fml
that's why i never understand why people some would buy Xeon for games.
yeah for just gaming its a tad silly, as even an Pentium/i3 can play modern games without any bottleneck, however.. you can buy the xeons are basically higher grade i7s, so.. if you bought one of the cheaper ones it would be a better deal than buying an i5 for about the same price.
Here are a few reasons: cheaper, more reliable (they're for servers), no wasteful integrated gpu, lower tdp, almost identical perfomance to some i7 cpu, cool names
Some games do take advantage of better cpu such as Starcraft 2, skyrim, guild wars 2, rome 2 and many other
Ha Do well the xeons are nice because they can give you hyperthreading quad cores cpu's for the price of a quad core not hyper threaded i5.. sure.. but what if you want to overclock it? :) the xeons are awesome cpu' but i would only buy it for a budget workstation.. as said before.. even i3's can easily handle modern game titles :) so if gaming is all that is on your mind.. you might be good with a OC'ed i5?
MrHearthofSIN To each their own i guess. I don't like to oc and don't feel comfortable oc. I don't have the good mobo to oc anyway. It's true that i3 can game easily given how gpu bound most games are nowadays but i like to have a little future proof with my cpu and low tdp as well.
Ha Do very valid point.
Dat hair
This is what sponsors should be on your main channel today dude
His segue to audible was so smooth unlike today's LTT videos that I did not see it coming! XD
You mean Segway.
@@rockstar-5934 Both the words are same. 'Segue' is older than 'Segway'. The latter word became popular due to the transportation vehicle brand.
1:48 "by adding more hands and more mouths"
+Alvin Du That's how I like my weekends. ._.
Fully modular human
Kind of like 2 girls 1 cup.
@جراند دادي Two threads, one core
This was super informative and easy to understand coming from someone who learns quickly but has absolutely ZERO base knowledge of computers and their computing. Haha. Thank-you so much! :-)
You are seriously good. I've been planning out building my own computers and Ive been going through your videos like ...candies. You deserve my sub.
I wish I had 20000 mouths... SO MUCH FOOD
1:28, thank me later
Really good, clear, concise explanation. Good pedagogy, this! Looking forward to more!
1:05 I think you're describing superscalar processors more than hyper-threaded ones (Intels are superscalar since P4 architecture (and I don't mean Pentium IV)). HT uses concepts of superscalarity, but for improving performance of different tasks on a processor. It would be better to describe HT as doing two different things at a time: eating and writing a blogpost maybe? And sharing resources not needed by the other task (left hand for eating, right hand for typing).
sooo basically AMD has the upper hand over Intel CPUs in games that dont support hyperthreading at all which is most of them despite the "lying benchmarks and other digital data generated by corporate registered programs" says? interesting, now i understand why they opted for more cores and better clockspeed rather than less cores and hyperthreading of some sort and why my A10-7850K outperforms an i5 in ArmA 3 >.>
What dat mouf do
I'm sorry, I had to.
hey you play osu?
+anime god Ye \( ^^)/
PocketLint-osu what's your username?
anime god "P0ck3tL1nt", add me fam B)
dashie?
you expalin so easily and can learn fast. thanks
The examples this guy uses are extremely understandable
Red and Blue candy. Intel and AMD reference? Blue in his mouth mean he prefers Intel.
+Kayemache I think you are reading way to deep between the lines.
+Julian Bell
He went deeper than Adele.
+Julian Bell Maybe you just don't see it
Dude you're great, I'm studying for the a+ cert and your stuff helps to clarify a lot of it
Thanks dude. You explain everything in a quick & simple way.
Hyper-Threading was actually invented by AMD and they applied for a patent in 2002 but never followed through with it.
forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-did-not-invent-hyperthreading.302829/
Says it was not AMD just some engineer working for Intel discovers it d patient is not quite the same.
i eat the cone first
My god. You deranged lunatic o.o
Brandon Dean Lol
Dude, I've been wanting to actually learn about computers. And what actually does what, stumbled upon your channel. Absolutely mint. Keep them going 👌
A long time ago I had a laptop Toshiba with Hyperthreading... Amazing machine.
This is why AMD has always had superior multithreading performance. Their FX-8350 trashes many i7s in multithreading, and even some i7Es were left in the dust.
Bear in mind that this is not a processor made to compete against anything more than i5s. It holds it's own pretty well.
send me a link proving that cus everything I've ever seen favors i7s
TopTenOnEverything I don't have a link for you, but what I do know is a lot of AMD CPUs excel in multi-core performance, as most of their CPUs contain 8 cores, whilst Intel is focused on less cores (they usually use 4) and more performance per single core. I use the i7-4770k, and it is a powerhouse, but it is up to you to decide which is better, but in all honesty I would just stick with Intel.
JFTGames Yah I have the 4770k too and I know the AMD-8350 is a good CPU and may beat i7s in stuff like virtual machines, but I'm pretty sure most multithreaded things like video editing favors intel.
Multi-core and multithreading are two different things. But you are right on that, i7 is usually superior.
JFTGames Yah wouldn't multicore be virtual machines and screen recording while multithreaded would be like video editing? Because "kemoka77" said the 8350 "trashes many i7s in multithreading" and I don't believe that.
skype lol
who use this thing nawadeiz
DX12 utilizes multicores and multithreads. The smoothspot is at 8cores and 8 threads, as shown in a video I saw. Any more cores doesn't give much more FPS. So for gaming an Intel i7 5960X is the smoothspot, but is very costy.
This is how one should give a lecture, subbed, the explanation was simple and great, thank you.
Like he mentioned, HT has it's own use for certain application. For gaming, I find it absolutely useful since they are highly demanding with it comes to cpu/gpu, you never know until you execute the application.
I swear there's so much to learn about computers...thank you though this was actual the simplest explanation on this subject that I could find :)
Thanks Linus... only 5 years late… but you still had it then … well done on the journey to where you are now!
Wow! Excellent and descriptive eating analogy to explain this thing. You have some great teaching skills!
Suggestions for new videos:
1) PC cooling (how many fans you should have how should they be placed)
2) AMD Mantle
I love your videos man! Really informative!! :)
Yeah born to do this, Linus and Tiny Tom Logan(UK) are just the best reviewers. As always great presentation, and easy to watch cheers dude!
thanks bro. i think i'm supper exited about the way you are just bringing things to reality! i need to get very closer to you Linus
Your videos are fantastic, Linus.
You're really helping me in building my first computer. Thanks
Linus, can you guys do a video where you compare hyperthreaded to non-hyperthreaded processors with every other specs the same to see what kind of gains there are in both synthetics, games, and multi threaded tasks like video rendering, and even gaming and streaming at the same time.
That's why the current server program I'm developing now not only uses threads, it creates a pool for incoming connections, when those connections out number the amount of threads I have assigned for the server. By using this approach, I don't have to worry about having more data to process than my cores can handle and I don't have to actually use all cores for the server itself (which would strain the server). My server program also calculates the average amount of time it takes to finish one thread processing job. This feedback allows me to calculate just how many players to place on the server, all while keeping a certain average thread processing time. My program can also act as an entry server or normal server. This setup allows me to easily add on more game worlds just by simply adding a new server and passing that info to the entry level server. The entry level server will then detect the new server and start filling it up with new players once the current server is filled. It will function the same even if I add multiple new servers at one time. I always felt, if you're going to develop a server side, make it as easy as possible to maintain on that side of things.
Awesome analogy. This made it really easy to understand
Even games won't utilize 2 or even 4 processors at all times even with (or without} threading.. If you understand the point he is making. A game is an essentially an application, and it still spends time waiting for the next move before it can process the next thread. It can (and does) try to predict what the next move will be, but it can't process the next frame until it knows what it is going to be. So obviously the game is not using all 4 cores all the time. Because there aren't threads waiting in line, as the man said. Then when the next frame is known it can use however many processors it wants to to display the next frame or action. That's why it helps to run extra GPUs to add the speed boost necessary for fast seamless action.
Mouth and eating was a super example...
It helped me understand easily
I like this format for AFAP better than the newer format. This style is slower, less stuff thrown in your face, and easier to digest (see what i did there? lol). It seems like they are trying to make their newer AFAP videos shorter and still contain the same amount of content, if not more...its a little overwhelming.
This is probably the best video Linus has ever created.
THIS IS SO HELPFUL AND CLEAR FOR A NOOB LIKE ME. thank you
Since the initial Core i series (back with 3-digit model numbers), the i7 is the HyperThreaded counterpart to the i5.
Example: Core i7 2600K V. i5 2500K, both have 4 physical cores and can be overclocked, but the i7 has HT on it whilst the i5 does not.
In your case, the bigger questions are: GPU power & V-RAM, System RAM & Storage Space. GPU & V-RAM are gonna be taxed by the game, Sys-RAM is gonna be used by everything running, drive space is gonna be consumed by FRAPS recording.
Concise, interesting, and mildly entertaining. Perfect video. Thanks!
I got a "new laptop" in July of 2013, it has an 2.4Ghz i7 3630QM, and basically everything I do (since I don't game of video edit) has NEVER taken more than about 35% of it's processing power. It's insane how optimized/advanced/threaded/cored a modern processor is. For my basic youtubing and Photoshopping needs this computer will probably be gauged only by the components life, ie a graphics card failure or motherboard failure etc. I could see me using this computer for 10 years easy since I don't use 1/3 of it's potential.
Quick tip
High grade processor beats 2 lower grade processors.
Processes that dont allow multithreading are constrained to the total speed of 1 processor.
this guy is awesome, thanks for all your great videos!
I really enjoy this video and learn, thanks from Dominican Republic
Could you make a video explaining simultaneous multi-threading and the different methods of processing threads too?
My experience with hyperthreading is quite bad, on older Core i CPUs on laptops. After upgrading to Win 10 a problem of high latency appeared, with constant massive spikes which caused audio dropouts, video stuttering and general lag. After about a month of suffering I finally stumbled on the solution: disable hyperthreading in BIOS setup.
So apparently HT can lock up whole CPU for pretty long time, when a device driver code is running, or any code servicing IRQ-s I guess. With HT turned off this almost doesn't happen.
it actaully has 8 physical cores. it has 4 modules with 8 Integer cores (x86/x86-64) and it has 8 128bit FPU's. It only has 1 set of decoders per module and it has to combine both 128bit FPUs for AVX instructions (which aren't used too often anyway). But other than that it is capable of processing 8 threads at the same time on 8 separate cores.
Do one on cpu registers like program status word, stack pointers and program counters
I was in a room of computer science majors and we were trying to guess what hyperthreading actually did, and no one got it. Thanks for clearing it up for us!
In Summary (with my own points), Hyperthreading is the proprietary approach of Intel to Multi-threading. Bare-bones multithreading is dependent on the Operating-System(OS) installed. Compared to hyperthreading, w/c is multithreading built-in to the hardware regardless of the OS. Though the OS will stil contribute, but this method is more effecient
Built-in is always awesome haha :)
You’re amazing at simply explaining things
I love the food analogy.
+Techquickie Well, you forgot about one important thing.
Even single-threaded processes are actually NOT single threaded.
Actually, all the processes run consistently kernel functions, which run in another, specialized kernel-mode thread. Also, the system itself needs to jump in regularly even if you don't run any kernel functions, and of course it has its own thread for that.
So, even a single-threaded process is actually a two-threaded processes.
If the operating system can set up the processor to hyperthread the kernel thread (I don't know if it can do that though), then single-threaded processes can speed up because switching threads is an expensive business without hyperthreading, and most processes run thousands of kernel-mode functions each second.
Windows 7 and above use many-to-many multithreading model, which means, that one process can have many kernel threads assigned, but a process must have at least one kernel thread.
Thanks Linus. This video made HT so easy to understand (food analogy LOLZ,) I can explain this to people. Awesome stuff!
You forgot to mention the fact that when there is a switch between logical cores, the second process can pull new data into the cache, thus wiping out the first process's cache and upon returning to the first process, slowing down significantly due to cache misses.
I just love how this guy explain things
Im not exactly a PC pro but that eating analogy was spot on!!