How to Install Interlocking PVC Workshop Floor Tiles - The Ultimate Garage Flooring!

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  • Опубліковано 5 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 178

  • @TheDIYGuy1
    @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

    What video would you like next?

    • @Wayner123
      @Wayner123 5 місяців тому +1

      @@TheDIYGuy1 u finished the last one with installation of the roller door and that was it nothing since covering electric installation lights moving in etc

    • @Chrisseq
      @Chrisseq 5 місяців тому +2

      Loft floor from loft zone 2.4m kit

    • @adnanjahan2854
      @adnanjahan2854 5 місяців тому +1

      Would love to see more of the renovation series! Have been looking forward to it.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Bathroom series is kind of part of it but there a huge project coming inside the house soon with major structural changes

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      More soon 👍

  • @psw3986
    @psw3986 4 місяці тому +7

    I usually don’t leave comments, but as a professional carpenter with over 15 years of experience, I feel compelled to say that the way the floor is being sawed at 7:30 is very dangerous. It ends well here because small pieces of soft material are involved. However, if you’re sawing large sheet material or solid wood, it can pinch the saw and cause kickback. When sawing on sawhorses, the cut-off piece should not be supported. I just want to warn people not to try this.

  • @arronfrost2872
    @arronfrost2872 5 місяців тому +7

    Had them in my workplace for a couple of years.They look great and are ok for a few months but some areas are now like walking on an ice rink.

    • @johnenglish3429
      @johnenglish3429 5 місяців тому

      That's interesting, what do you think has caused those areas to be slippery? Are they the areas with most traffic/walking?

  • @andrewmcfarlane5040
    @andrewmcfarlane5040 5 місяців тому +1

    Lovely workmanship.
    Well done Sir.

  • @LittleWing-35
    @LittleWing-35 5 місяців тому +2

    Check… out how good that looks, underrated

  • @Paul-un5ps
    @Paul-un5ps 5 місяців тому

    They look perfect for my new shed.

  • @damianmckenna9899
    @damianmckenna9899 5 місяців тому +2

    Good choice for floor,easy and quick to fit and hard-wearing(I would have chosen one colour probably the grey as I think the interlocking sides of the 2 colours ruin the look,just my opinion)but a dream workshop/man cave ❤

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Your right, great flooring for this very reason

  • @timscanlanphotography
    @timscanlanphotography 5 місяців тому +1

    Cracking stuff! Refurbing my garage at the mo so definitely going to take a look at these. Loving the channel btw. Thanks for sharing.

  • @brianfarrelly415
    @brianfarrelly415 5 місяців тому

    Looks absolutely stunning love it 👌

  • @TheAdamneal
    @TheAdamneal 5 місяців тому +6

    Top content, helping everyone gain confidence with projects around the house

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      That’s the plan. Cheers

  • @PDSVIDEO1966
    @PDSVIDEO1966 5 місяців тому

    Love the videos always easy to follow and well explained for the novice person to follow.

  • @kernow9324
    @kernow9324 5 місяців тому +2

    That looks great! You've just given me an idea for a way to make my floor less slippy for my dear old lady dog. She's struggling with the wooden fllors. This will be much better for her. Evie says thank you!🐕

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      Your welcome, say hi to Evie for me. Named after the Pokémon by any chance? 😊

    • @kernow9324
      @kernow9324 5 місяців тому +2

      @TheDIYGuy! Hi. She was named Evie by the kennel maids at the Dogs Trust. It's a nice name, so we kept it. Apparently when she was handed in she was called Flopsy! Poor dog.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      Ah nice 👍

  • @maticdesigns2042
    @maticdesigns2042 5 місяців тому

    Just what I needed I’m doing my garage next month

  • @andywalsh11
    @andywalsh11 2 місяці тому

    Great video mate! Could you put insulation under the flooring?

  • @clark4219
    @clark4219 5 місяців тому

    Great vid, thanks! 👍🏼
    That looks awesome and I’d be interested to see the durability of those tiles.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      You and me both! Cheers

  • @ianforrest3753
    @ianforrest3753 23 години тому

    Would these stop condensation forming on my garage floor?

  • @tonyp9609
    @tonyp9609 2 місяці тому +1

    Question ? Doesn't the PVC floor tiles pull moisture from the concrete? Thank You

  • @AwTheGears
    @AwTheGears 2 місяці тому

    I've been considering these tiles for my garage for about a year now. Keep going between them and epoxy flooring, but I think I'll go for these. A lot less to go wrong for an idiot like me doing it!!! 😂👍
    Do they add a bit of insulation? My concrete floor is obviously cold and because it's rutted, the castors of my bike stand keep getting caught in it. 🤨

  • @cornwallkid100
    @cornwallkid100 5 місяців тому

    Another great video mate ....👍👍👍

  • @HDN_YT
    @HDN_YT 5 місяців тому

    Absolutely love these videos, currently going through a bit of a dilemma!
    My back wall/boundary wall is going to end up being pretty close to the boundary, so much so that I can't get behind it to fit the cladding once the wall is up - oversight on my part I know
    So i'm going to fit the cladding on the back wall before putting the walls up, my concern is what to do about leaving a gap for the soffit at the top of the back wall, I dont want to leave a massive gap for insects/birds to get into
    Any advice greatly appreciated!

  • @The_Reviewist
    @The_Reviewist 5 місяців тому +2

    Looks great but when initially laying and measuring I’m not sure why you didn’t just shuffle it so much you could fit another piece in.
    It was like… “I’ve got half a tile on this side and a little more on the other… so I’ll shuffle 50mm.”
    Or just shuffle it more and put a full piece in. Did I miss something?

  • @andrewferguson7762
    @andrewferguson7762 5 місяців тому +2

    link for competition shows as TBC, is that correct. Loved the video btw, great watch

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      My mistake, link fixed. Glad you liked the video

  • @NicolaAllan-dq4fo
    @NicolaAllan-dq4fo 2 місяці тому

    Will the ramp section stop the rain coming in? Or do I need something different?

  • @keitho77
    @keitho77 5 місяців тому

    Looks like a simple solution for a workshop floor 👍
    What are you planning to put in the workshop?

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Absolutely. Mostly an area to build things or store tools 👍

  • @chrisrobbins4888
    @chrisrobbins4888 5 місяців тому +1

    Yet Another spot on and instructive video, Cheers. I am considering this type of flooring for my garage, can you advise how well it behaves with a load, i.e. a trolley jack lifting a car, does it compress and loose its shape, do you know if the jack would sink into the flooring tiles. Or is it stable. Thanks and keep up the great content.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      Glad you liked it. I’ve not tried them under extreme load but they are very dense. I think you can order samples

  • @AntonioLuis987
    @AntonioLuis987 5 місяців тому

    Hello!
    Would this floor be suitable for jobs involving oil and grease? Or would the oil just get all stuck to the floor?
    Thank you!

  • @ashtainton6878
    @ashtainton6878 5 місяців тому

    Laid some old kitchen lino in 3 yr old garage (new build) which has moisture coming underneath. If replacing any recommendations for sealing concrete floor? May consider tiles as replacement

  • @cprog
    @cprog 5 місяців тому

    Thank you for great video!

  • @junior555
    @junior555 29 днів тому

    When did you paint the workshop?

  • @SyncMan172
    @SyncMan172 5 місяців тому

    Awesome, when can you come and do mine 😂

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      Cheers, I reckon you’ve the skills to get yours done ✔️

  • @BKutube
    @BKutube 4 місяці тому

    Enjoying the content - quick question: How much has this workshop cost to build ? if I were to get this done to a similar spec and get trades in to do it, what sort of budget should I set aside?

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  4 місяці тому +1

      Thanks. Probably 20-25k

  • @davidgodman2948
    @davidgodman2948 4 місяці тому

    How to put a attic window in from cutting and reforceing the beams from start to finish please

  • @BlueVelvetBear
    @BlueVelvetBear 3 місяці тому

    It felt too intimate seeing you in your socks 😂
    5 minute floor lay, perfect 👍

  • @deanwellerassociates
    @deanwellerassociates 5 місяців тому

    Seems a shame to fill that relaxing clean space. Really great job on the video, the content, explanations and edit are spot on mate

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Glad you enjoyed it!

  • @andiscott8470
    @andiscott8470 5 місяців тому +1

    Look blinking cracking! Just curious, did you use a workshop vacuum to do the concrete floor before laying this? Seems very dusty concrete..

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      I swept it but not vacuumed. It’s unsealed concrete and yeah pretty dusty so it’s nice with the new floor

  • @mattwestby1169
    @mattwestby1169 5 місяців тому

    Great stuff 👍 I've got that much 💩 in my garage you wouldn't see the beauty of these floor tiles 😂🍻🫶

  • @JP_TaVeryMuch
    @JP_TaVeryMuch 5 місяців тому

    These are a step up from the standard dusty concrete floor, as you say.
    They're even better than what used to pass for one-upmanship: the red Hanmerite painted floor.
    But they're not quite there though, are they? By which I mean the retired rock star version of the ultimate garage: underfloor heating, wipe clean floor coating for any vintage car oil spills and a state of the art fire suppression and alarm system to protect each one of your £10 mil vehicles.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      Haha I’d need the vehicle first before stepping it up 😊

  • @garethwatson7999
    @garethwatson7999 Місяць тому

    Surely you just interlock the full amount of tiles that need cutting in the correct pattern and run the track saw down as many as your track can cut? Instead of cutting a single tile at a time, Or am I just missing something?
    Tiles are mint, I’ve just bought some more for my new workshop, not the cheapest but you can screw or fix through them into either the timber or concrete floor underneath which is spot on!

  • @StuTubed
    @StuTubed 5 місяців тому

    £7 a tile at the moment with a normal price of £10 a tile. At only 50cm a tile that will get expensive very quickly, I counted ~96 tiles for that workshop, and I'd need 110 for my space. At normal price that's well over a grand. I also couldn't get the discount code to work. Good install video though, looks amazing.

  • @antonyporter5045
    @antonyporter5045 5 місяців тому

    cracking video cheers

  • @simonhinson9367
    @simonhinson9367 5 місяців тому +1

    Are the tiles water tight if you spilt water on them would it get underneath please ?

    • @charliejane2092
      @charliejane2092 5 місяців тому +1

      Yes they are.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +2

      Haven’t tried it but they look watertight 👍

  • @chrishamilton-wearing3232
    @chrishamilton-wearing3232 5 місяців тому

    Did you do a part 7 for the workshop build, plastering the walls ?

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +2

      Coming in the finale in a couple of weeks 😊

    • @chrishamilton-wearing3232
      @chrishamilton-wearing3232 4 місяці тому +1

      @@TheDIYGuy1 I have just found your channel and subscribed as I am in the near future going to build my own workshop, 9m x 4m, originally it was going to have an apex roof but I am now ththat a pent roof is the way to go as it will be easier, quicker and cheaper. I live in mid west France and to give you an example of material costs here, a 15mm 8 x 4 sheet of OSB costs around 80 quid. So mine will have horizontal boards made from Douglas which I will cut shiplap edges for the exterior. Whilst, it is a workshop and not in any way a garden room it will have plasterboard lining which I will spray using my Wagner sprayer ! All in all very similar to your project but with enough differences to keep it interesting for when I get my you tube channel up and running.

  • @Pete.Ty1
    @Pete.Ty1 5 місяців тому

    👍👍👍. Thank you

  • @najm6600
    @najm6600 5 місяців тому

    Thanks for this! How can I find the right diameter for the tap?

  • @Rocklyn277
    @Rocklyn277 5 місяців тому

    Fantastic, are they available in Australia?

  • @Chris-yc3mm
    @Chris-yc3mm 5 місяців тому

    Looks really good, pitty there is not a couple of grey entrace pieces to keep the pattern going.
    😂 competition link just says TBC

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Cheers. Could of chosen the grey ramps but for some reason thought black would look better but you maybe right. Fixed the comp link

  • @kennedychikwamakampinyah6165
    @kennedychikwamakampinyah6165 2 місяці тому

    ❤❤❤

  • @benfreeston6035
    @benfreeston6035 5 місяців тому

    Brilliant job 😎, do you know how much weight the tiles can carry? Love to do this for my warehouse but we have a 3.5ton electric forklift

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      Ah I actually don’t. I do know you can drive cars over them though.

    • @benfreeston6035
      @benfreeston6035 5 місяців тому

      @@TheDIYGuy1 I will check the website cheers 🍻

  • @mikesims1822
    @mikesims1822 Місяць тому

    Would I be able to roll my motorcycle dolly on those tiles?

  • @jackbird6325
    @jackbird6325 5 місяців тому

    Nice job, just wondering how it would cope with lots of saw dust etc? Does it leave foot prints?

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      So far so good. No issues with dust nor footprints. I’ve even been cutting metal in there ,leaving swarf everywhere and it swept up easy

  • @angiej4865
    @angiej4865 5 місяців тому

    Great - if you have an older garage, (without any signs of damp), is it wise to do something to the concrete floor before laying these?

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      I have a damp proof membrane underneath my concrete. If not, you could lay a damp proof membrane under your floor tiles first

    • @angiej4865
      @angiej4865 5 місяців тому

      ​@TheDIYGuy1 Had a good look at it today - seems to be membrane visible around the edges of the floor so all good.

  • @itsagoal182
    @itsagoal182 5 місяців тому

    Good old skirting, when you realise your floors aren’t straight, such fun!

  • @shadowdugify
    @shadowdugify 5 місяців тому

    8:20 what about using a table saw?

  • @sunset5461
    @sunset5461 5 місяців тому

    Can water seep between the joins in the case of water spillage?

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      I don’t believe so 😊

  • @christagg7570
    @christagg7570 5 місяців тому +1

    What did Mrs DIY say when you took the mop and bucket back into the house?!😂

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +5

      😂 she actually had a moan at me haha

    • @JP_TaVeryMuch
      @JP_TaVeryMuch 5 місяців тому +2

      ​@@TheDIYGuy1
      Ladies apparently have Inside and Outside versions of things.
      Didn't find this out until my twenties:
      Mum, can you believe I got told off by my landlady for using the washing up J-cloth to wipe the floor where I'd spilled something?
      Err ... Yes son. Yes.
      Unmm. Oh...

  • @rosivison6526
    @rosivison6526 5 місяців тому

    I would be interested in seeing the electrical installation in the workshop.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Second fixing coming in the next workshop video 👍

  • @pippipster6767
    @pippipster6767 5 місяців тому +4

    I think I would just do all black.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      👍

    • @CiscoPhipse
      @CiscoPhipse 5 місяців тому

      🥱 Give it some character. You could put your initials in the middle.

  • @gablan1468
    @gablan1468 5 місяців тому

    How much did they cost you and for how many square meters?

  • @Chris-yc3mm
    @Chris-yc3mm 5 місяців тому

    How do they handle water getting underneath?

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Haven’t tried it to be fair.

  • @squishedfrog99-gp4qq
    @squishedfrog99-gp4qq 2 місяці тому

    Unless I missed it, you have not sealed the concrete or insulated the floor. Is that because it's just a workshop.

  • @Wayner123
    @Wayner123 5 місяців тому

    Is there anymore videos on the workshop coming?

  • @dirkdingle7926
    @dirkdingle7926 5 місяців тому

    Looks nice but found them far to expensive so I just painted my garage walls and painted the floor dust is minimal

  • @ToNmAnAyO
    @ToNmAnAyO 5 місяців тому +1

    Would appriciate it if you were clear if it's a sponsored video, checked their website and seems quite pricy, sure a few of us who follow also look at costs because we are DIY and not paying someone to do it

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      I put a sponsored video tag in the top left corner at the start of the video.

  • @MrJB8383
    @MrJB8383 5 місяців тому

    is this cheaper than coating the floor?

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      I’d say so, unless your just sealing or painting it

  • @rutgershenk
    @rutgershenk 5 місяців тому

    What a great stuff. And no glue....

  • @mikeprada1677
    @mikeprada1677 3 місяці тому

    That's a Norfolk accent if I ever heard one 👀

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  3 місяці тому

      Oh yes

    • @mikeprada1677
      @mikeprada1677 3 місяці тому

      @@TheDIYGuy1 yes boiiii, narrwich lad roit haaaarree

  • @girbaux
    @girbaux 3 місяці тому

    U.S.A link?

  • @martinmorgan9814
    @martinmorgan9814 5 місяців тому

    Looks great but out of my budget for a garage I use just as a man cave come workshop

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Thanks. Fair enough 👍

  • @peterclarke9859
    @peterclarke9859 5 місяців тому

    Can you park your car on them

  • @scottmacpherson6787
    @scottmacpherson6787 5 місяців тому

    £6.96 a tile, a double garage would cost £1002 serious money given the average new-build in the UK is shocking quality and the floor would need prepped. Yours looks spot on though.

    • @JayGee6996
      @JayGee6996 2 місяці тому

      A 6m x 4m kit is £639 inc vat

  • @Participant616
    @Participant616 5 місяців тому

    So you've just stopped doing your bathroom? More bathroom!

  • @simplyrita1234
    @simplyrita1234 5 місяців тому +1

    Where is the link for the raffle? Just says TBC in the description box.

    • @MuddySump
      @MuddySump 5 місяців тому

      It’s there now

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +1

      Fixed the error. Link is there now 👍

    • @simplyrita1234
      @simplyrita1234 5 місяців тому

      Thank you

  • @sprint955st
    @sprint955st 5 місяців тому +1

    “….did supply me with …” in other words gave me them for free as long as I plugged them

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      They are a good product that suit DIY’ers. Why wouldn’t I recommend them? Seeing as this channel is about sharing skills, techniques, products that help others.

  • @Capricorn_IV
    @Capricorn_IV 5 місяців тому +2

    Definitely not cost effective, these cost a lot per sm, I bought good quality horse stall mats for a fraction of the price and same thickness
    Im guessing you got yours for free or heavily discounted if you promote them hence the discount code

  • @charlesscottkelly
    @charlesscottkelly 5 місяців тому

    Use lino

  • @quiggles
    @quiggles 5 місяців тому +2

    Really expensive solution...

  • @JamesEdwards860
    @JamesEdwards860 5 місяців тому

    Just an observation but there doesn’t seem to be many electrical sockets for a workshop? I like the flooring.

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      10 in total. Glad you like it

  • @shutinyanks
    @shutinyanks 5 місяців тому

    I'd love to do this but can't get the Mrs to take all her stuff out the garage. She's taken over the one sacred place i can go.. Help

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому

      Haha I can help with a lot but not that one

  • @ciscokid2444
    @ciscokid2444 3 місяці тому

    All of you guys don’t give detailed info on how to measure a cut. You just mark it without showing where on the tile to mark.

  • @SafetyCarrot
    @SafetyCarrot 5 місяців тому +2

    Most of your stuff is great, so I'll overlook this video but please don't make this a habit.

    • @IAmxZki
      @IAmxZki 5 місяців тому

      What’s the problem?

    • @Egypticus
      @Egypticus 5 місяців тому

      ​@IAmxZki probably the fact that this vid is basically one big advert for that flooring is my guess.
      Very expensive solution and not actually worth the money imo.
      If you put a car on it which a comment above somewhere says yes you can, I bet you can't steer on them without pulling up and shifting tiles. Useful if the car just sits still and not actually working on it. Jack's and jack stands would eventually leave marks,scuffs even dents.
      Cheaper and simpler to paint the garage with a decent garage floor paint.
      Having said that, it does look visibly nice. And probably fine for foot traffic and using it as a basic workshop rather than a garage workshop. But still overpriced for what they are and still one big advert pushing the product. In my opinion of course.

  • @bobjit252
    @bobjit252 5 місяців тому +29

    Not cost effective, there expensive, and awful if you spill something , but hey if there given to you free why not plug an ad for them . I don’t really think people need to be told how to put them together.

    • @Howt-ooo
      @Howt-ooo 5 місяців тому +3

      If one gets stained or damaged you can just replace that one tile?

    • @bobjit252
      @bobjit252 5 місяців тому +9

      @@Howt-ooo that’s exactly why there not cost effective, if the floor is epoxy resin , polyurethane or even tiled that staining does not happen and the mess can be cleaned up . What happens if you spill something I.e oil and goes underneath the tile 🤔, the guy is just plugging the product it’s free for him

  • @nou5440
    @nou5440 4 місяці тому

    the camera is a bit distorted and makes everything look like a banana

  • @unperrier
    @unperrier 3 місяці тому

    please stop using "mil" for "millimeter" as a mil is actually a thousand of an inch (like a thou)

  • @AffectionateDriftwood-vr2sf
    @AffectionateDriftwood-vr2sf 5 місяців тому

    Looks nice but the dirt would drive me mad haha must be a women thing lol failng that, let the wife use half for a Gym! Mothers never get.time to work out - you'd score big husband points for tht one lol

  • @waynekerrr9027
    @waynekerrr9027 5 місяців тому +5

    So you make £720 from raffle tickets, from a free drill set..what happens the money please ?? Is this for a registered charity ????

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +14

      Lots of things your comment has wrong. I don’t make £720 as there are plenty of costs associated that I need not explain. The set was bought and not free.

    • @jameseabonn2674
      @jameseabonn2674 5 місяців тому +2

      ​@TheDIYGuy1 I appreciate your hustle and have no dramas with you using your audience for an additional revenue stream. Have you considered increasing the ticket cap or periodicity of competitions to increase the total profit rather than raising ticket prices? I just feel like £1 is the sweet spot to keep people interested, that's all. Would love to hear your opinion, again not trying to be negative - it's just an observation.

    • @darrenrodd.
      @darrenrodd. 5 місяців тому +4

      @waynekerr9027 you acting like your name 😂

    • @robstewart8691
      @robstewart8691 5 місяців тому +3

      Ud assume the money helps go towards more video content... Hes not a huge million+ follower youtuber so would get little to nothing from youtube....You think he gets all these materials for free? All the camera equipment and time in editing videos? Its an educational video that can help alot of people... Which is more than can be said for alot more popular youtubers that make huge money in revenue and advertisment literally wasting money away for the sake of views... Go elsewhere

    • @TheDIYGuy1
      @TheDIYGuy1  5 місяців тому +2

      Appreciate all your constructive feedback 👍. Whatever works for you guys