Here’s my theory I believe that the doctor bigenerated to allow 14th doctor to process all the trauma of his life, (The time war, the flux and the timeless child etc ) so that the 15th can start a fresh, and I think when the 14th doctor has finally processed everything he will regenerate into 15 in that moment of the split, and that’s why 15 knows what to do so quickly, it’s hard to explain over a comment but if you’re interested I can explain properly over a call or something to discuss 😂
15 does say he’s only fine because 14 “fixed himself” and that they’re time lords and are doing rehab out of order, so that supports this theory. I just wish they explained more in the episode.
@@atahomusiime8015 yeah - it helped having time to discuss the biregen due to the leak, and it's safe to say that some variation of this theory is exactly what's happening. 14, 15 and Donna all comment on 15 being older, and 15 specifically talks about only being fine because 14 fixed himself and how they're doing rehab out of order. If it was a bi-regeneration, they'd be the same age - or one would be younger than the other - and 15 wouldn't be fine. Trauma is carried between regenerations, so if they both just regenerated from that point - bigeneration or no - they'd _both_ have that weight on their shoulders. But if 14 takes a one-regeneration retirement and lives with the Nobles, then he can take the time to work through everything - fix himself, to quote 15 - and then regenerate comfortably into 15.
@@cisalzlmanI think even if all the Doctors did bigenerate, same thing stands right? 8 will have more adventures but he will return to being War on Karn, idk.
I think the emotional baggage all the doctors have is contained in Tenant's Doctor and the New Doctor has the memories but not the torment, he is therefore able to move on without the guilt, remorse, and pain.
Yes! I’d wondered why most of the clips and photos of Ncuti as 15 looked so happy or peaceful and content. Even the Doctor’s happy times, previously, had either a manic edge or a tinge of sadness, like he was always waiting for the next trauma to strike.
Exactly, I think about the most painful moments with Eccleston, Smith, and oh my goodness, and Capaldi. And if you are familiar with the 8th Doctor novels and audio stories, he is a brooding character with much tragedy including destroying Gallifrey to save the universe and this was before the Time War! Wouldn't it be great if humanity had the ability to do away with grief but retains the memories. For example if we love someone we deeply loved, remembering her is painful, even the happy memories. Then you feel guilty for wanting to forget. A very human predicament. @@lisa_wistfulone7957
I'm not a fan of the split regeneration, the execution almost worked however I don't think Tennant's Doctor should have got a TARDIS. I have two possible head canon's: 1. He'll eventually regenerate properly into Ncuti and the split is a sort of Watcher type situation telling him to settle down and process his issues. 2. Rather than Ncuti being a new Doctor, Tennant's the one who's been separated from the line up of Doctors and much like the meta-crisis, he and the TARDIS have a limited live space, given the implication of retirement, it seems more logical that he'll grow old with the Nobles and not regenerate.
Honestly, number 1 is what I was thinking as well. Mainly based off the line where 15 was called the older of the two (even though, if they were a perfect split, they'd be the same age) and the fact that 15 told 14 that he (15) felt better because 14 had done the "re-hab"
I think Bi-Regeneration works like cell division. Both are the same person but regeneration created two of them. When cells devide they create two of each with like 1 : 10 000 000 000 chance of leaving half of old cell intact. So it was astronomical chance that 14th Doctor survived that intact. It should in theory create two doctors that look like 15th, yet memories of 10th incarnation worked like an anchor for 14th allowing 15th (or 1st) to detached himself from his past lives and create new cycle as new person.
Russel said that at that moment, it is not just 14th who is Bigenerate, but all the Doctors in all the Regenerations. Basically every time The Doctor regenerates, the old version stays behind to enjoy the results of their work processing everything that has happened to them, but as they are all the same person, the benefits of this 'rehabilitation' are felt by The current Doctor, even if they happen off-screen. Basically Russell allowed himself and all future Showrunners to start fresh with The New Doctor without having to worry about having The New Doctor process what happened to them on screen. Russell also said that Ncuti's Tardis is not a copy of the Tardis but are all the same Tardis and we will have proof of that in the coming episodes. In the episode Donna tells 14th that she knows he won't be with her and her family forever, so I take it from this that by the time 15th meets Rose (Yasmin Finn), 14th will already be gone on his way to enjoy retirement. I don't think we'll see Tennat again (not at the moment), but I'm sure 14th will be mentioned maybe by Rose or 15th.
I'm going to be so frustrated watching people overthink this. I just enjoyed ALL of it. It was beautiful and not one bit of it bothered or confused me.
I admit, I enjoy analyzing how everything works in-universe, and how exciting the ideas are. But I accept that universe and the new rules and ideas that writers introduce, and so I enjoyed these specials tremendously too!!! I love the emotional roller coaster of the specials, and I’m very happy with how they all fit together and gave a happy ending for 10/14!
I agree. I thought it was a beautiful ending (?) for David Tennant's doctor - finally, his best friend truly understands this Time Lord in a way no one else can, and she didn't flinch when he said he was a billion years old, so she did know that more that 15 years had passed. She helped him give himself permission to stop running away all the time, and just choosing to travel. I just think it's beautiful. ❤
@lisa_wistfulone7957 I'm not trying to say "don't try to figure this out or make it make sense"- just don't let the search for that lessen the enjoyment you get out of it, right? I mean we are talking about a show that literally uses the term Timey-whimey. 😁
All the doctors are the same person only at different points in time, that's why they could never meet in person without something special happening now this just makes the new doctor looks like a second rate dr
Really enjoyed that. Credit to Russell T Davies. Just when you think they can’t come up with anything new for Dr Who he gives us bi-generation. Clever idea. I wonder if this allows Tennant to do some spin off episodes every few years? I hope so. NPH was the best villain for ages as well. Best thing is this has been a massive surprise to all the viewers.
Actually the Tales of the TARDIS idea you have here of the 14th cycling through former faces is lent credence by the recently announced Special edition Magic the Gathering card…..the Fourteenth Doctor can enter the game as a copy of another Doctor
So will we have a special with the 10th and the 14th doctor meeting the meta-crisis doctor and the not-thing doctor? How about a “doctors daughter” special “my 4 dads?” 4 tennents…
My own take is that the Fourteenth Doctor did truly regenerate into the Fifteenth Doctor, but bi-regeneration did create a copy of the Fourteenth. Personally, I think the Fourteenth Doctor is now in the same category as the Valeyard and can no longer regenerate.
They explain the biegeneration briefly towards the end of the official BBC Doctor Who podcast, based on something that Davies is going to post about the lore and history of biregeneration. Essentially, the 14th Dr. splits off and becomes his own thing (I don't think he regenerates after this, but I'm 100% sure), while the 15th will continue the main line of the Doctor. They also said the Davies stated that when a biregeneration happens, it trickles back in the personal timeline of the Tome Lord, causing every previous regeneration to have a biregeneration. I believe this is how they are going to explain the older actor showing up as the doctor. They're going to post the details somewhere BBX related, but I'm not in the UK, so I don't have access to it.
The bi-generation can explain a lot in Doctor who past stories in some ways, what if going forward turns out could have been done before when 2nd doctor could not choose his next form in war games could also explain Jo Martin doctors then aswell and time lords forced different versions of the Doctor.
I am really excited by the new paradigm. Can someone clarify - will 15 have a biregeneration of his own? Will every subsequent regeneration be in this manner?
My impression (so this is only my thoughts, not facts) is that bigeneration is an extraordinarily rare event. Ncuti said it was believed to be a myth. I’m guessing that all the trauma and manipulation of the last regeneration, Plus the cumulative trauma that the Doctor is always carrying, PLUS the intensity of recent events where he’s unable to protect Donna, all led to a highly unlikely interaction of emotional state and regeneration-biology, that then caused the bigeneration. It may be something that Doctor Who lore will keep in its back pocket, but I think they won’t make it a new “normal” occurrence. (Just my own theories on the matter ☺️)
Adding, since I just learned of RTDs announcement that “Tales of the Tardis” is related to this bigeneration. I’m still working that out in my head 😅 But I think it’s brilliant!
Theory- I think Regeneration is broken for the doctor and not the way it has worked in the past. This might be because of the master when he took over the doctor’s body in power of the doctor. 13 to 14 had the doctor revisit an old face with the clothes changing and that 14 to 15 was a bi-generation. Also, during that Doctor/master regeneration, it kinda looked like Ncuti Gatwa for a split second or two. Maybe that might have something to do with the whole thing. I think there might be an upcoming storyline looking deeply into regeneration.
David wouldn't be able to have his old console back if you remember The Doctor Wife a lot of console room got deleted from the memory bank including the 9th / 10th one
I think the 14th and 15th Doctor's are exactly the same person, with exactly the same memories up until the moment they split. At that point they become independent of one another. So 15 literally remembers being 14 only a moment ago but once they've split they become seperate Time Lords.
wild theory... The doctor has bigenerated before. What if the timeless child was the original, then a bigeneration happened, which led to the "1st " doctor as a bi-generation off of the timeless child. Bi-generation could also explain things like the valyard. But what if the timeless child is still out there and it turns out to be "he who waits"... and the doctor has to face him.
I think they did this for multiple reason. The first and foremost is to be able to bring David Tenant back anytime they want. This also allows multiple future regenerations to pop in as well. For all we know Tenant's Doctor will eventually go back in time and regenerate into the Curator. We all know The Doctor loved Sara Jane. Plus, this gives two timelines the BBC can make audio dramas and produce novels. We could even end up in a situation of multiple Tenants in a single adventure. David Tenant played the 10th and 11th Doctor before playing the 14th and technically speaking they are separate and distinct regenerations. Just think about a story with a much older 14th Doctor.
RTD comments: "a whole timeline bigenerated". "I think all of the Doctors came back to life with their individual TARDISes, the gift of the Toymaker, and they're all out there travelling round in what I'm calling a Doctor verse." "Sylvester McCoy woke up in a drawer, in a morgue, in San Francisco… and Jon Pertwee woke up on the floor of the laboratory"
Ncutis doctor is still the Doctor, I think he has all the memories but not the baggage that came with it. Tennant will probably go on to become the Curator, and it was heavily implied that the museum was itself a tardis, so Tennant had to get a tardis to explain that. What im more annoyed about was that we didnt get a reason for the 14th bringing back 10th face. Im calling it now, Tennant will get his own spin off in the same vain as Sarah Janes adventures, where he deals with stuff on Earth while Ncuti deals with the space adventures.
I still get chills when I see matt Smith and my first dr tom Baker and bakers booming voice you know I think you might be right. I fell over when that happened. I got very excited. Who nose eh, who nose eh
I was wondering if the Doctor was going to split again to feature cameos of other Doctor's. It would have been a cool way to round off the anniversary specials.
I think that 14 will end up regenerating in the time vortex which will end in him being sent back in time to the giggle as he regenerates causing him to split Also side thought if this theory ends up being right (slim chance ik) what if it has a knock on effect which is actually why 14 has an old face
Part of me wonders, if remember when 12 said He doesn’t know where that Face came from and then realized later on that 10 Chose that Face as a reminder?,Part of me thinks that 14 for some reason maybe chose Ncuti’s Face as a way of Healing and moving on.Also I have a theory that when Jodie’s Doctor was forced to Regenerate by The Master it screwed up the process,possibly long term and that is why this is happening.
Question: if, according to TARDIS unleashed, all of the prior Doctors went through their own bi-regeneration … just how far back does this go? Only to the 1st Doctor (William Hartnell) or further back through the pre-Hartnell Doctors brought about via The Endless Children. Also, what timeline is Ruth in now?
@@maskmaker6374 As much as I'd love that, since it would undo the Timeless Child some more, it doesn't really work. Like, how come 13 and Ruth didn't recognise each other? Bi-regeneration is a process where the two incarnations literally come face to face with one another during the split, so they would know each other then.
The Bi-Regeneration was a terrible idea. It losses the dramatic impact of regeneration and turns it into goofy joke. Bringing Tennant back was a bad thing.
However good the motivation for a bigeneration might be, and I'm open minded about that, I dislike that RTD allowed Ncuti Gatwa to be totally overshadowed. I'm sure he'll be a great Doctor but it was a bit unfair to expect him to shine whilst David Tennant was busy chewing up the scenery (in the nicest possible way).
Re the clothes ... didn't the Toymaker say something like i enjoyed making a jigsaw out of your history. That leaves things open for explanations about his messy timeline and i still think that the TM could have been responsible for the tenant regen new outfit thing.
Bifurcation in regeneration? Wow! There are now two Doctors in the universe (well the half left after the Flux.) We now have the Timeless Children as Timelords. The multiverse becomes. Still no appearance of the Valeyard. Does he need to appear now the Doctor has unlimited regenerations? And the Master is trapped in a gold tooth? With the bifurcation of the TARDIS did all the contents of the TARDIS get duplicated? Are there now two fob watches containing the Doctor's lost memories. One in each TARDIS? There is now no one line of canon. That was a clever move, Russell. Nice one. And I loved Kate Stewart going crazy, reflecting some of the bigotry and hate alive in society today. "I've seen you walk", is a dig at those who believe that the disabled are swinging the lead and making up their conditions. The disabled are on the whole not evil con artists. Fantastic! And don't forget the welfare state.
So Donna has accepted a job with UNIT and the 14th Doctor is stopping with her and her family for the time being. I can see the odd special being on the cards with a set-up like that. 😁
Bigeneratrion was canon in Colin Baker's era... How else could the Valeyard split from the doctor during one of his regenerations? Question is... Is one of them going to be the Valeyard?
It’s never stated that this is how the Valeyard came into being. Only that he’s an amalgamation of the Doctor’s darker side somewhere between his 12 and 13th incarnation. He never had a regeneration cycle, hence why he wants his hands on the Doctor’s in order to guarantee his existence. In all of the last 30-odd years I’ve always assumed that he was artificially created (presumably by the Time Lords), using the most negative aspects of the Doctors personality, to aid in covering up the Ravalox scandal and that he wasn’t an actual incarnation of the Doctor in the sense of him being a regeneration. That doesn’t mean I’m right and you’re wrong. It’s just that it’s so ambiguous that it can be anything, but a lot of people seem to automatically assume that he’s an actual regeneration when that has never been stated.
@@GrilloTheFlightless The actual wording was "Between the 12th and final regeneration." Up until Smith got his regenerations topped up, everyone thought the Valeyard would have to be between 12 and 13 but now, it could happen any time.
The more I think about the bi-generation, and the Doctor no longer having a finite existence It appears to me he is immortal and that his previous incarnations are alive in a multiverse. Removing any sense of tragedy, diminishing the inherent drama in any Doctor story, past and future, at least as it pertains to the Doctor. Companions will come and go, planets, civilizations, galaxies will be be destroyed or be in peril, as they've always been in the Who universe, but the Doctor, all of them, are eternal. Tenant got his wish, remember when he died the first time, what he said, " I don't want to go!" Well, he got his wish and now lives in suburbia, which for some is a living Hell.
Actually they are non-Identical " Twins" ...but Twins. and RTD can always develop Stories with 14 as well if 15 doesn't spark with the fans. RTD solved the issue of the Doctor being the last of his kind as well.
Watched the episode got confused by the style of regeneration that was done this time but overall it was a not too bad episode and it lived up to its expectations when being a highly anticipated 60 th Anniversary special episode but I guess other people will all have their own individual opinions but that was mine with my thoughts on that and I can’t think of much of a theory that adds up or explains the unusual 15 th doctor splitting off from the 14 th doctor moment didn’t see that one coming
14th/15th Doctor Bi-regeneration The personality of each doctor “dies” along with the process of their body dying to be “reborn” via regeneration. 15 was able to go through “rehab” in that his new personality processed past events, particularly the traumas, in a way that the 14th hadn’t/couldn’t yet balancing the speed of what happens during regeneration and his personality as can be noted by the lack of quibbling/commentary on the difference (as seen in The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, or The Day of the Doctor) between them - 15 had been there/done that enough to just ignore it. 14 will live on in his own new timeline, allowing for him to carry on adventures with Donna, Rose, and Mel (cough … extended … cough … media … cough). What happens with all the the new bi-regenerating Doctors? Well, how else are the Time Lords supposed to repopulate? The Shobogans (aka “normal”Gallifreyans) weren’t Time Lords and no in-canon reference that I am familiar with suggests they regenerated … that regeneration was the provenance of Time Lords. 14 could connect with his earlier selves to re-establish the Time Lord race either on a post apocalyptic Gallifrey or another planet, perhaps helping them see the need to not just passively observe time, only to interfere when it suited them, but to engage in a thoughtful, but meaningful, way to ensure they live by 12’s motto: “NEVER BE CRUEL. NEVER BE COWARDLY. HATE IS ALWAYS FOOLISH. LOVE IS ALWAYS WISE. ALWAYS TRY TO BE NICE, BUT NEVER FAIL TO BE KIND.” Thus rather than becoming a people who would try to commit genocide against the adaleks or others ala Time War, they simply thwart or undo acts of evil.
So since we have two doctors we are never getting a Christmas special on earth or what? Two doctors suddenly removed the whole risk factor.. There will always the question will arise at the time of crisis what the hell is other doctor doing? But then again he had a TARDIS all along so there could have been always infinite no of doctors at the same time at the same place..
I absolutely HATED how they handled the regeneration. The whole magic and appeal of the Doctor regenerating is that although he is completely different he is the SAME person. This doesn’t feel like that anymore. It feels like 15 is a brand new entity and OUR doctor, the actual Doctor has just given up the tardis and who knows if and when we’ll ever see him again? Nah. Hate it.
did u listen to the dialogue? 15 said im ok because u fixed yourself. 14 will become 15 , anyway lets just wait to see rtd's full explaination of what this is and then judge if its bad
Clara can’t go back as Gallifrey has gone, unless she arrives moments after she first left Gallifrey of course their TARDIS has no Temporal navigation issues.
Bi-generation. Where’s the jeopardy? Fair enough, The Doctor doesn’t die; but regeneration use to feel like a kind of death-we lost him when he regenerated; the relationship we had with him was over…and we were sad; now however we don’t lose him, we just get another, and another, and another. Isn’t that just a bit unnecessary? Would Superman still be super if the were a thousand copies of him. Is the Doctor still unique and special when there are a thousand of him? Or is he diminished?
I noticed in the subtitles, after the bi-regeneration, Rennet's doctor was referred to as the tenth doctor. does that mean that once the 15th doctor was himself, the fourteenth reverted back to being the tenth?
Maybe I’m wrong if I am someone correct me but I think all of regenerations of the 15th doctor will be new actors, and if old actors want to return they will be from the 14th doctors regeneration. For example off screen 14th Doctor can regenerate back into Paul McGaan, but he can be older and have aged off screen and return for the 70th, I don’t even know if I’m making sense lol. Also the Tenth can regenerate into a young Tom baker off screen, grow old and become the curator.
Russell should quit he ruined the show cancel Doctor Who it's dead. 2 Doctors 2 Tardis paradox universe would destroy itself. Tardis stole the dr tosee the universe not to be a lawn ornamentthe doctors wife Day of the doctor with 4 drs 3 Tardis bsnever in the same timeline day n year.
This is horrible, they didn't do this when dr who became a woman, why do black people alway get treated like this. There should always only be only one dr who. Now no matter what you think the 15th doctor will always be seen as the second rate black doctor
@DArts425 then they should have made a whole new show, they didn't do it with Jody they shouldn't have done it now I'm a doctor who fan, not a David Tennant fan, for 60 years now there's only been one doctor at a time no need to change that now, either he doctor who or he he's someone else
OMG I am glad someone else understands this! And it goes back to Ruth, the first black doctor and was female. Ruth can't just be apart of the known Doctor's timeline she had to be a pre Hartnell and has no baring on what audiences know. Now we have the first black showrunner Doctor and what do they do, they split him off the favorite Doctor of newwho and usually in the 2nd favorite Doctor over all. So people can just ignore him and just say that the "real" Doctor is still out there. Hell they even gave him a TARDIS and didnt make it clear who got the original. I mean this is worst than when Tennant saying he didnt want to go making it look like they were killing him off so that Matt had all those haters. RTD has taken a stand for representation for so many people yet he seemed to drop the ball with this.
![IS THE 14TH DOCTOR COMING BACK TO DOCTOR WHO?! [SPIN OFFS, CAMEOS + MORE?-Future of the WHONIVERSE!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9HzIcaUAhHY/mqdefault.jpg)
Here’s my theory
I believe that the doctor bigenerated to allow 14th doctor to process all the trauma of his life, (The time war, the flux and the timeless child etc ) so that the 15th can start a fresh, and I think when the 14th doctor has finally processed everything he will regenerate into 15 in that moment of the split, and that’s why 15 knows what to do so quickly, it’s hard to explain over a comment but if you’re interested I can explain properly over a call or something to discuss 😂
15 does say he’s only fine because 14 “fixed himself” and that they’re time lords and are doing rehab out of order, so that supports this theory. I just wish they explained more in the episode.
@@atahomusiime8015 yeah - it helped having time to discuss the biregen due to the leak, and it's safe to say that some variation of this theory is exactly what's happening.
14, 15 and Donna all comment on 15 being older, and 15 specifically talks about only being fine because 14 fixed himself and how they're doing rehab out of order.
If it was a bi-regeneration, they'd be the same age - or one would be younger than the other - and 15 wouldn't be fine. Trauma is carried between regenerations, so if they both just regenerated from that point - bigeneration or no - they'd _both_ have that weight on their shoulders.
But if 14 takes a one-regeneration retirement and lives with the Nobles, then he can take the time to work through everything - fix himself, to quote 15 - and then regenerate comfortably into 15.
You just did a better job than the show just did. Thanks
This 100% for me but there is the complication of RTD claiming that all doctors bi-generated
@@cisalzlmanI think even if all the Doctors did bigenerate, same thing stands right? 8 will have more adventures but he will return to being War on Karn, idk.
I think the emotional baggage all the doctors have is contained in Tenant's Doctor and the New Doctor has the memories but not the torment, he is therefore able to move on without the guilt, remorse, and pain.
Yes! I’d wondered why most of the clips and photos of Ncuti as 15 looked so happy or peaceful and content. Even the Doctor’s happy times, previously, had either a manic edge or a tinge of sadness, like he was always waiting for the next trauma to strike.
Exactly, I think about the most painful moments with Eccleston, Smith, and oh my goodness, and Capaldi. And if you are familiar with the 8th Doctor novels and audio stories, he is a brooding character with much tragedy including destroying Gallifrey to save the universe and this was before the Time War! Wouldn't it be great if humanity had the ability to do away with grief but retains the memories. For example if we love someone we deeply loved, remembering her is painful, even the happy memories. Then you feel guilty for wanting to forget. A very human predicament.
@@lisa_wistfulone7957
I love this Adipose Who’s group wish I had a friendship group like that
I'm not a fan of the split regeneration, the execution almost worked however I don't think Tennant's Doctor should have got a TARDIS. I have two possible head canon's:
1. He'll eventually regenerate properly into Ncuti and the split is a sort of Watcher type situation telling him to settle down and process his issues.
2. Rather than Ncuti being a new Doctor, Tennant's the one who's been separated from the line up of Doctors and much like the meta-crisis, he and the TARDIS have a limited live space, given the implication of retirement, it seems more logical that he'll grow old with the Nobles and not regenerate.
Honestly, number 1 is what I was thinking as well. Mainly based off the line where 15 was called the older of the two (even though, if they were a perfect split, they'd be the same age) and the fact that 15 told 14 that he (15) felt better because 14 had done the "re-hab"
I actually thought Tennant would become the Curator and would only regenerate into older faces, like the 4th Doctor.
we have 3 David tennant running around got be giggling my ass off 😂😂😂😂
I think Bi-Regeneration works like cell division. Both are the same person but regeneration created two of them. When cells devide they create two of each with like 1 : 10 000 000 000 chance of leaving half of old cell intact. So it was astronomical chance that 14th Doctor survived that intact. It should in theory create two doctors that look like 15th, yet memories of 10th incarnation worked like an anchor for 14th allowing 15th (or 1st) to detached himself from his past lives and create new cycle as new person.
this excatly. mitosis for the win
wait for the 14th Doctor meeting the 10th in big finish??
Russel said that at that moment, it is not just 14th who is Bigenerate, but all the Doctors in all the Regenerations. Basically every time The Doctor regenerates, the old version stays behind to enjoy the results of their work processing everything that has happened to them, but as they are all the same person, the benefits of this 'rehabilitation' are felt by The current Doctor, even if they happen off-screen. Basically Russell allowed himself and all future Showrunners to start fresh with The New Doctor without having to worry about having The New Doctor process what happened to them on screen. Russell also said that Ncuti's Tardis is not a copy of the Tardis but are all the same Tardis and we will have proof of that in the coming episodes. In the episode Donna tells 14th that she knows he won't be with her and her family forever, so I take it from this that by the time 15th meets Rose (Yasmin Finn), 14th will already be gone on his way to enjoy retirement. I don't think we'll see Tennat again (not at the moment), but I'm sure 14th will be mentioned maybe by Rose or 15th.
I'm going to be so frustrated watching people overthink this. I just enjoyed ALL of it. It was beautiful and not one bit of it bothered or confused me.
I admit, I enjoy analyzing how everything works in-universe, and how exciting the ideas are. But I accept that universe and the new rules and ideas that writers introduce, and so I enjoyed these specials tremendously too!!!
I love the emotional roller coaster of the specials, and I’m very happy with how they all fit together and gave a happy ending for 10/14!
I agree. I thought it was a beautiful ending (?) for David Tennant's doctor - finally, his best friend truly understands this Time Lord in a way no one else can, and she didn't flinch when he said he was a billion years old, so she did know that more that 15 years had passed. She helped him give himself permission to stop running away all the time, and just choosing to travel. I just think it's beautiful. ❤
Of all the way this could have ended, this made me the happiest.
@lisa_wistfulone7957 I'm not trying to say "don't try to figure this out or make it make sense"- just don't let the search for that lessen the enjoyment you get out of it, right?
I mean we are talking about a show that literally uses the term Timey-whimey. 😁
Yeah just shut off your brain and accept everything ffs
Tennent is the valyard/curator…the curator is a rehabilitation f the valyard….the valyard is the doctor in a breakdown /“falling down” moment
All the doctors are the same person only at different points in time, that's why they could never meet in person without something special happening now this just makes the new doctor looks like a second rate dr
My new headcanon is that Tennant will regenerate into Baker and any other older doctors that need to rest after all the time they spent running
Could David Tennant become a watcher of sorts now. Later on down the line re-merging with the Doctor to allow them to regenerate
I suggest that he can only retro generate into older faces. The Curator is part of them, as he said that he was retiring.
Really enjoyed that. Credit to Russell T Davies. Just when you think they can’t come up with anything new for Dr Who he gives us bi-generation. Clever idea. I wonder if this allows Tennant to do some spin off episodes every few years? I hope so. NPH was the best villain for ages as well.
Best thing is this has been a massive surprise to all the viewers.
Actually the Tales of the TARDIS idea you have here of the 14th cycling through former faces is lent credence by the recently announced Special edition Magic the Gathering card…..the Fourteenth Doctor can enter the game as a copy of another Doctor
So will we have a special with the 10th and the 14th doctor meeting the meta-crisis doctor and the not-thing doctor? How about a “doctors daughter” special “my 4 dads?” 4 tennents…
My own take is that the Fourteenth Doctor did truly regenerate into the Fifteenth Doctor, but bi-regeneration did create a copy of the Fourteenth. Personally, I think the Fourteenth Doctor is now in the same category as the Valeyard and can no longer regenerate.
They explain the biegeneration briefly towards the end of the official BBC Doctor Who podcast, based on something that Davies is going to post about the lore and history of biregeneration. Essentially, the 14th Dr. splits off and becomes his own thing (I don't think he regenerates after this, but I'm 100% sure), while the 15th will continue the main line of the Doctor. They also said the Davies stated that when a biregeneration happens, it trickles back in the personal timeline of the Tome Lord, causing every previous regeneration to have a biregeneration. I believe this is how they are going to explain the older actor showing up as the doctor. They're going to post the details somewhere BBX related, but I'm not in the UK, so I don't have access to it.
maybe this is how the fugitive doctor came about without it being the timeless child idea, might be better story wise i guess
The bi-generation can explain a lot in Doctor who past stories in some ways, what if going forward turns out could have been done before when 2nd doctor could not choose his next form in war games could also explain Jo Martin doctors then aswell and time lords forced different versions of the Doctor.
So the 14th Doctor stays on Earth, rejoins UNIT as Scientific Advisor and becomes the new Jon Pertwee.
Good question, and what I was wondering, but DT has a Tardis, Pertwee didn't, so he wouldn't be stuck on earth.
I am really excited by the new paradigm. Can someone clarify - will 15 have a biregeneration of his own? Will every subsequent regeneration be in this manner?
My impression (so this is only my thoughts, not facts) is that bigeneration is an extraordinarily rare event. Ncuti said it was believed to be a myth.
I’m guessing that all the trauma and manipulation of the last regeneration, Plus the cumulative trauma that the Doctor is always carrying, PLUS the intensity of recent events where he’s unable to protect Donna, all led to a highly unlikely interaction of emotional state and regeneration-biology, that then caused the bigeneration.
It may be something that Doctor Who lore will keep in its back pocket, but I think they won’t make it a new “normal” occurrence.
(Just my own theories on the matter ☺️)
Adding, since I just learned of RTDs announcement that “Tales of the Tardis” is related to this bigeneration. I’m still working that out in my head 😅 But I think it’s brilliant!
Theory- I think Regeneration is broken for the doctor and not the way it has worked in the past. This might be because of the master when he took over the doctor’s body in power of the doctor. 13 to 14 had the doctor revisit an old face with the clothes changing and that 14 to 15 was a bi-generation.
Also, during that Doctor/master regeneration, it kinda looked like Ncuti Gatwa for a split second or two. Maybe that might have something to do with the whole thing. I think there might be an upcoming storyline looking deeply into regeneration.
He gose thru the time tardis and them becomes the curator
David wouldn't be able to have his old console back if you remember The Doctor Wife a lot of console room got deleted from the memory bank including the 9th / 10th one
you come up with amazing theories and you really deserve 100k subs!
I think the 14th and 15th Doctor's are exactly the same person, with exactly the same memories up until the moment they split. At that point they become independent of one another. So 15 literally remembers being 14 only a moment ago but once they've split they become seperate Time Lords.
wild theory... The doctor has bigenerated before. What if the timeless child was the original, then a bigeneration happened, which led to the "1st " doctor as a bi-generation off of the timeless child. Bi-generation could also explain things like the valyard. But what if the timeless child is still out there and it turns out to be "he who waits"... and the doctor has to face him.
I think they did this for multiple reason. The first and foremost is to be able to bring David Tenant back anytime they want. This also allows multiple future regenerations to pop in as well. For all we know Tenant's Doctor will eventually go back in time and regenerate into the Curator. We all know The Doctor loved Sara Jane. Plus, this gives two timelines the BBC can make audio dramas and produce novels. We could even end up in a situation of multiple Tenants in a single adventure. David Tenant played the 10th and 11th Doctor before playing the 14th and technically speaking they are separate and distinct regenerations. Just think about a story with a much older 14th Doctor.
RTD comments:
"a whole timeline bigenerated".
"I think all of the Doctors came back to life with their individual TARDISes, the gift of the Toymaker, and they're all out there travelling round in what I'm calling a Doctor verse."
"Sylvester McCoy woke up in a drawer, in a morgue, in San Francisco… and Jon Pertwee woke up on the floor of the laboratory"
Ncutis doctor is still the Doctor, I think he has all the memories but not the baggage that came with it. Tennant will probably go on to become the Curator, and it was heavily implied that the museum was itself a tardis, so Tennant had to get a tardis to explain that. What im more annoyed about was that we didnt get a reason for the 14th bringing back 10th face.
Im calling it now, Tennant will get his own spin off in the same vain as Sarah Janes adventures, where he deals with stuff on Earth while Ncuti deals with the space adventures.
He can now retire and be the curator
He could the great curator
I still get chills when I see matt Smith and my first dr tom Baker and bakers booming voice you know I think you might be right. I fell over when that happened. I got very excited. Who nose eh, who nose eh
Ah yes, the bi spoiler 😂
My theory is that 14 will become some kind of Watcher
14th and 15th were together throughout the specials
The intro caught me off guard 😂😂😂
I was wondering if the Doctor was going to split again to feature cameos of other Doctor's. It would have been a cool way to round off the anniversary specials.
I think that 14 will end up regenerating in the time vortex which will end in him being sent back in time to the giggle as he regenerates causing him to split
Also side thought if this theory ends up being right (slim chance ik) what if it has a knock on effect which is actually why 14 has an old face
14 probably becomes "The Curator"
You need to watch with captions. After the bigeneration, the captions say the tenth doctor not 14th.
Omg that’s FANTASTIC!!! I’ll do that on my rewatch!! That’s an even more satisfying ending than assuming it was 14 at that family picnic…🥹💖
Part of me wonders, if remember when 12 said He doesn’t know where that Face came from and then realized later on that 10 Chose that Face as a reminder?,Part of me thinks that 14 for some reason maybe chose Ncuti’s Face as a way of Healing and moving on.Also I have a theory that when Jodie’s Doctor was forced to Regenerate by The Master it screwed up the process,possibly long term and that is why this is happening.
What if... 14 goes on to become the doctor that will be the curator OR the valeyard if their healing didnt go well. Maybe.
I think it would have been nice to have 14 regenerate into 15, then they pull 14 out of him
What about The Valyard?
When the bi generation happened on Disney plus the captions for tennants doctor said tenth doctor when he was speaking all of a sudden instead of 14
I wondered about that, on purpose or not?
@@RavenThom yeah I think there’s probably more they need to explain, I don’t think they’d mess up that badly. I’m guessing it’s intentional
When I was watching the episode, it says the David Tennant was the 10th Doctor in the subtitles. Not sure what that is implying though.
Was that there all along, or only at the end? I’m looking forward to rewatching the 3 episodes with captions on now!
It was the best of the 3, the bi regeneration seems a cop out, almost as if they're keeping DT on hand if things don't go the way they hope
Vicariously is the word you were looking for 😂
Question: if, according to TARDIS unleashed, all of the prior Doctors went through their own bi-regeneration … just how far back does this go? Only to the 1st Doctor (William Hartnell) or further back through the pre-Hartnell Doctors brought about via The Endless Children.
Also, what timeline is Ruth in now?
You know what would be cool, if Ruth was the 13th Bi generation and thats why she called herself the Doctor and had the police box TARDIS.
@@maskmaker6374 As much as I'd love that, since it would undo the Timeless Child some more, it doesn't really work. Like, how come 13 and Ruth didn't recognise each other? Bi-regeneration is a process where the two incarnations literally come face to face with one another during the split, so they would know each other then.
Vicariously is the word you were looking for.
The Bi-Regeneration was a terrible idea. It losses the dramatic impact of regeneration and turns it into goofy joke. Bringing Tennant back was a bad thing.
I believe the term is vicariously thus bicariously not bi😄curiously. That was hilarious though.
However good the motivation for a bigeneration might be, and I'm open minded about that, I dislike that RTD allowed Ncuti Gatwa to be totally overshadowed. I'm sure he'll be a great Doctor but it was a bit unfair to expect him to shine whilst David Tennant was busy chewing up the scenery (in the nicest possible way).
I just figured that it has to do with the same reason why he came back in the first place
He didn't want to die and still isn't ready to do so
Re the clothes ... didn't the Toymaker say something like i enjoyed making a jigsaw out of your history. That leaves things open for explanations about his messy timeline and i still think that the TM could have been responsible for the tenant regen new outfit thing.
timeless child retconn maybe?
@@reverse7503I wish!
Bifurcation in regeneration? Wow! There are now two Doctors in the universe (well the half left after the Flux.)
We now have the Timeless Children as Timelords. The multiverse becomes.
Still no appearance of the Valeyard. Does he need to appear now the Doctor has unlimited regenerations? And the Master is trapped in a gold tooth?
With the bifurcation of the TARDIS did all the contents of the TARDIS get duplicated? Are there now two fob watches containing the Doctor's lost memories. One in each TARDIS?
There is now no one line of canon. That was a clever move, Russell. Nice one.
And I loved Kate Stewart going crazy, reflecting some of the bigotry and hate alive in society today. "I've seen you walk", is a dig at those who believe that the disabled are swinging the lead and making up their conditions. The disabled are on the whole not evil con artists. Fantastic! And don't forget the welfare state.
i think tennants version will likely become the future valyard
So Donna has accepted a job with UNIT and the 14th Doctor is stopping with her and her family for the time being. I can see the odd special being on the cards with a set-up like that. 😁
So I'm guessing 14 eventually turns into 15 (but at a different point) to heal the timeline.
Bigeneratrion was canon in Colin Baker's era... How else could the Valeyard split from the doctor during one of his regenerations? Question is...
Is one of them going to be the Valeyard?
It’s never stated that this is how the Valeyard came into being. Only that he’s an amalgamation of the Doctor’s darker side somewhere between his 12 and 13th incarnation. He never had a regeneration cycle, hence why he wants his hands on the Doctor’s in order to guarantee his existence. In all of the last 30-odd years I’ve always assumed that he was artificially created (presumably by the Time Lords), using the most negative aspects of the Doctors personality, to aid in covering up the Ravalox scandal and that he wasn’t an actual incarnation of the Doctor in the sense of him being a regeneration.
That doesn’t mean I’m right and you’re wrong. It’s just that it’s so ambiguous that it can be anything, but a lot of people seem to automatically assume that he’s an actual regeneration when that has never been stated.
@@GrilloTheFlightless The actual wording was "Between the 12th and final regeneration." Up until Smith got his regenerations topped up, everyone thought the Valeyard would have to be between 12 and 13 but now, it could happen any time.
The more I think about the bi-generation, and the Doctor no longer having a finite existence It appears to me he is immortal and that his previous incarnations are alive in a multiverse. Removing any sense of tragedy, diminishing the inherent drama in any Doctor story, past and future, at least as it pertains to the Doctor. Companions will come and go, planets, civilizations, galaxies will be be destroyed or be in peril, as they've always been in the Who universe, but the Doctor, all of them, are eternal. Tenant got his wish, remember when he died the first time, what he said, " I don't want to go!" Well, he got his wish and now lives in suburbia, which for some is a living Hell.
i want David tennant to keep coming back! i want a citadel of David tennants 😁😁
Actually they are non-Identical " Twins" ...but Twins. and RTD can always develop Stories with 14 as well if 15 doesn't spark with the fans. RTD solved the issue of the Doctor being the last of his kind as well.
tennant to become the valeyard
Watched the episode got confused by the style of regeneration that was done this time but overall it was a not too bad episode and it lived up to its expectations when being a highly anticipated 60 th Anniversary special episode but I guess other people will all have their own individual opinions but that was mine with my thoughts on that and I can’t think of much of a theory that adds up or explains the unusual 15 th doctor splitting off from the 14 th doctor moment didn’t see that one coming
The 7th Doctor already explained this in Tales of the Tardis
My theory is that the 14 doctor will regenerate to the curator
They should definitely do a malcolm tucker dr who, not for kids.
+ for the girls mocking
14th/15th Doctor Bi-regeneration
The personality of each doctor “dies” along with the process of their body dying to be “reborn” via regeneration.
15 was able to go through “rehab” in that his new personality processed past events, particularly the traumas, in a way that the 14th hadn’t/couldn’t yet balancing the speed of what happens during regeneration and his personality as can be noted by the lack of quibbling/commentary on the difference (as seen in The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, or The Day of the Doctor) between them - 15 had been there/done that enough to just ignore it.
14 will live on in his own new timeline, allowing for him to carry on adventures with Donna, Rose, and Mel (cough … extended … cough … media … cough).
What happens with all the the new bi-regenerating Doctors? Well, how else are the Time Lords supposed to repopulate?
The Shobogans (aka “normal”Gallifreyans) weren’t Time Lords and no in-canon reference that I am familiar with suggests they regenerated … that regeneration was the provenance of Time Lords.
14 could connect with his earlier selves to re-establish the Time Lord race either on a post apocalyptic Gallifrey or another planet, perhaps helping them see the need to not just passively observe time, only to interfere when it suited them, but to engage in a thoughtful, but meaningful, way to ensure they live by 12’s motto:
“NEVER BE CRUEL. NEVER BE COWARDLY. HATE IS ALWAYS FOOLISH. LOVE IS ALWAYS WISE. ALWAYS TRY TO BE NICE, BUT NEVER FAIL TO BE KIND.”
Thus rather than becoming a people who would try to commit genocide against the adaleks or others ala Time War, they simply thwart or undo acts of evil.
So since we have two doctors we are never getting a Christmas special on earth or what? Two doctors suddenly removed the whole risk factor.. There will always the question will arise at the time of crisis what the hell is other doctor doing? But then again he had a TARDIS all along so there could have been always infinite no of doctors at the same time at the same place..
I absolutely HATED how they handled the regeneration. The whole magic and appeal of the Doctor regenerating is that although he is completely different he is the SAME person. This doesn’t feel like that anymore. It feels like 15 is a brand new entity and OUR doctor, the actual Doctor has just given up the tardis and who knows if and when we’ll ever see him again? Nah. Hate it.
did u listen to the dialogue? 15 said im ok because u fixed yourself. 14 will become 15 , anyway lets just wait to see rtd's full explaination of what this is and then judge if its bad
@@reverse7503 that doesn’t change how i feel about it. It still sucks
Vicariously?
Clara can’t go back as Gallifrey has gone, unless she arrives moments after she first left Gallifrey of course their TARDIS has no Temporal navigation issues.
Could RTD not have had the regeneration energy gone back into the doctor un the first episode and this caused the bi generational.
So the first Black Doctor doesn't even get to be "the" Doctor, just one of two.
Bi-generation. Where’s the jeopardy? Fair enough, The Doctor doesn’t die; but regeneration use to feel like a kind of death-we lost him when he regenerated; the relationship we had with him was over…and we were sad; now however we don’t lose him, we just get another, and another, and another. Isn’t that just a bit unnecessary? Would Superman still be super if the were a thousand copies of him. Is the Doctor still unique and special when there are a thousand of him? Or is he diminished?
I noticed in the subtitles, after the bi-regeneration, Rennet's doctor was referred to as the tenth doctor. does that mean that once the 15th doctor was himself, the fourteenth reverted back to being the tenth?
God knows what the budget was spent on. If this is the best they can do the DW is dead
What if they have to remerge themselves and the TARDIS at some point in the future
Maybe the 10 and 11 doctors return
Toy maker's world wasn't destroyed this time..... Just saying
i think that there is going to be a reintegration like they merge back togeather after the 14 has has his sabatical and has healed
He might regrow the time lords
I don't understand 😕
Maybe I’m wrong if I am someone correct me but I think all of regenerations of the 15th doctor will be new actors, and if old actors want to return they will be from the 14th doctors regeneration. For example off screen 14th Doctor can regenerate back into Paul McGaan, but he can be older and have aged off screen and return for the 70th, I don’t even know if I’m making sense lol. Also the Tenth can regenerate into a young Tom baker off screen, grow old and become the curator.
That's a horrible idea. The doctor should always be one one person, not the good doctor and the ones we don't care about
More David the better blonde girl doesn’t know what she saying
agreed she's a bit rubbish
Terrible 60th anniversary. Terrible regeneration
Russell should quit he ruined the show cancel Doctor Who it's dead. 2 Doctors 2 Tardis paradox universe would destroy itself. Tardis stole the dr tosee the universe not to be a lawn ornamentthe doctors wife Day of the doctor with 4 drs 3 Tardis bsnever in the same timeline day n year.
Show been trash jodi whitaker.
This is horrible, they didn't do this when dr who became a woman, why do black people alway get treated like this. There should always only be only one dr who. Now no matter what you think the 15th doctor will always be seen as the second rate black doctor
@DArts425 then they should have made a whole new show, they didn't do it with Jody they shouldn't have done it now I'm a doctor who fan, not a David Tennant fan, for 60 years now there's only been one doctor at a time no need to change that now, either he doctor who or he he's someone else
@DArts425 your view of thing isn't the only one and far from the right one.
@@DArts425 😁
OMG I am glad someone else understands this! And it goes back to Ruth, the first black doctor and was female. Ruth can't just be apart of the known Doctor's timeline she had to be a pre Hartnell and has no baring on what audiences know. Now we have the first black showrunner Doctor and what do they do, they split him off the favorite Doctor of newwho and usually in the 2nd favorite Doctor over all. So people can just ignore him and just say that the "real" Doctor is still out there. Hell they even gave him a TARDIS and didnt make it clear who got the original. I mean this is worst than when Tennant saying he didnt want to go making it look like they were killing him off so that Matt had all those haters. RTD has taken a stand for representation for so many people yet he seemed to drop the ball with this.