Sub 70 Flexwing - The landings were not good.
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- Landing away Westonzoyland - Part 2. The return keg
The return leg was fun, despite the thermic conditions. After returning from the Ex RAF Westonzoyland, I set up for the farm strip and wasn't happy with my first landing. With the engine running, the conditions 'looked ok', I took off to get some more practice
It was a wonderful day and the pilots I met were so hospitable. I will certainly be adding this one a stepping stone to other airfields in the future.
I hope you enjoy this video.
Kit and equipment that i use for my Vlogs:
The Aircraft that I am flying is a Flylight PeaBee:
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ICARO Solar X Helmet with MicroAvionics PM100 (Vlog modified by MicroAviconics)
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Following several good in depth discussions with some seasoned instructors and flexwing pilots, who have had a look at the landing they have come up with the following common points. It has been pointed out that there was a gust that came through at the same time I touched down. The prevailing wind was different to the direction of the gust which is why my aircraft changed direction. The bar position at the point of being lifted was just forward of neutral (not quite obvious in the video). I've come in with speed and touched down nicely, however the gust gave me more lift. So what do I take away, I need to feel more what the wing is doing and manage the energy appropriately. In this case as I was effectively flying, I could have gone full power and climbed away, I also could have pulled the bar in more upon touchdown but that would take more experience as it need to be achieved within 1/2 a second of touchdown. I hope everyone enjoyed the video.
"I also could have pulled the bar in more upon touchdown but that would take more experience as it need to be achieved within 1/2 a second of touchdown."
That is exactly what I was trained to do upon landing a trike. Once touched down and rolling (right after flaring), I pull the bar into my chest and keep it there. I have flown flex wing hang gliders for decades, and when landing in thermally or windy conditions, immediately after flaring with feet on the ground, it becomes quite natural to pull the nose down to avert the possibility of being blown over backwards. So I guess pulling down the nose of the trike wing just comes pretty naturally to me.The biggest thing is to keep the angle of attack low right after touchdown so the wing doesn't want to go back up. Paramotor/paraglider pilots do something similar by getting their wing deflated and on the ground right after landing. I think you handled the situation well. It was quite thermally from what the video shows, and you were getting bumped around quite a bit. Sometimes in spite of everything you have a sketchy landing due to conditions.
Cheers
Thank you for your feedback. On the paramotoring side which I have been doing for over a decade now, yes you are right, that is very instinctive to me. I just need to become more instinctive on the Peabee. We just need to be able to fly again, which might not happen for a few months now.
@@huffdaddy3845 I will second that. When landing in bumpy gusty conditions I don't run it down the runway. I get it on the ground and pull the bar into my chest.
Thanks for sharing, Giles. All that flying & just 1/2 second that you would want to re-do to be perfect. The psychology behind the urge to be perfect (for yourself or for others) is fascinating. It can be a gift and a curse, & I have the same affliction. I am learning nanolights slowly with 40+hrs on my Ant (Combat T + Corsair Black Devil). Any chance I could private em you?
A few observations.
Whenever possible, I want to have wind indicators surrounding where I launch/land; a sock is great, but heavy socks may lag a moment- I like to place streamers. When these indicators don't agree, they may describe the presence and path of a thermal moving across the field. A booming thermal will change the wind direction around it, both drawing in air to the core, and splashing displaced air down the outside, flowing away in all directions. When possible, I like to fly a circuit of the field to sample the air. If there's a booming thermal hanging out where I want to land, I can anticipate accelerated sinking air on the back side of it, followed by slowing and powerful lift, then a tailwind and more sink if passing all the way through before enjoying the predominate wind direction again. Or I can opt to stay up, land short, land in another field, etc.
I don't stop flying the glider until it is parked. That said, we naturally play a narrative of being down, the trial over- it's easy to be caught off guard. It is a constant challenge for me not to exchanging what is actually happening for expectations; while anticipation of multiple outcomes is critical for my success, so is adaptation to the unexpected. Reflexive adaptation comes from hard won experience and diligent self awareness to fend off complacency; it seem you're allowing yourself that opportunity.
Keeping the pitch restrained is sound advice- but there's that possibility of digging the front wheel into soft ground, if overly aggressive. Keeping the nose unweighted and holding the pitch in for control are competing demands that can't be balanced from this side of the screen. Sometimes terrain might recommend that we float the front wheel as long as we dare, slowing progress before pinning the nose down.
When reflecting, it's useful to ask what decisions preceded the problem I'm forced to confront in the moment. And then the decision before that.
Just my thoughts.
Yes I was always taught bar in as soon as on the deck and the decision made to stay there .
Hello David, since my later training I completely see the issues I generated. I think i was just a lack of experience at this time. I think I have improved a little since this video ;).
The first landing was fine why you went around again is beyond me but then i realised you are a perfectionist but i hope not to a fault .remember if it's not broke don't fix it-great video!!
Yes, I do like to get things right. Maybe I just need to learn to curb that desire. I've been taught in aviation we don't always get second chances, but when you do, use every opportunity.
Thanks for this Giles - really exciting and just like being there! Had a couple of similar hairy landings on the FlyLight Bivvy last September and, whatever the others said, it was thermic!
Glad you liked it. It was still a fin flight and I'g go out again. Can't wait to go flying again.
Man love your UA-cam videos I wish I could own one really
It took me 30 plus years before I could afford to own a Peabee and had to sell some things to buy it.
I reckon there was some mechanical turbulence with a lift component that caught you on the final landing.
The only way to avoid this happening again is to either fly a faster heavier craft, or wait til the air is butter smooth.
The thing is we are flying very low mass machines, and the slightest air movement will have an effect.
Good to see some flying action though Giles.
Thanks
Sandy
HI Sandy, I'd happily fly my paramotor in those conditions, but the beauty of the soft wing is that it doesn't become damaged when hitting the floor, the PeaBee will. I'm glad it was only a tiny lift and I can go fly another day, when we can.
Wiltshire Man , I think your very right to bring up the limitations of our sub 70 flexwings , there is a trade off that needs to be appreciated by low airtime pilots like my self and Giles and that is - yes we need to gain experience but we don’t need to push ourselves to the point of scaring ourselves or worse . Giles the fact your wing won’t collapse is true but it’s rigidity can also cause problems in turbulence at low level and I believe you should be looking at gaining experience in conditions when the air is calmer .
Thank you for sharing this flight! There were more than a few times I would have liked to gone around to make another approach when landing my hang glider but no motor so...
I spent a few years on sailplanes and know exactly what you mean. I like using the opportunities to practice, its all experience at the end of the day.
Spicy coming in there. Good thinking and analysis and a patient safe landing. Looks amazing.
It was a little. I kind of wished I'd stayed with the first landing, but everyone has a degree in hindsight.
Since you asked......In good conditions I always do the final approach with the bar pulled in slightly and engine at idle on final. I also pull the bar back in once I've landed. In rough conditions I do the short final with the bar pulled in slightly more and I like to carry some engine power all the way down until just before the flare as it helps punch through turbulence. . Once I'm on the ground and rolling out I don't hesitate to pull the bar in lots in order to get some down force on the front wheel for steering control and to keep the trike from lifting again in case of a gust. Remember, speed is your friend. G'day!
Thanks Jim. Since I've progressed down the licence route everything you've said makes sense. Thanks for the comment.
Hi Giles, first landing looked great would have left it at that, but I can see the temptation to do another. Good decision to abort the 2nd, but I think you would have got it down ok. 3rd landing, here comes the psychology, you've done 2 already now your thinking I really need to just get this right and land safely. Nice touch down (rear wheels) but I think you might have just taken ur mind off momentarily before the nose wheel came down (it was thermic and alittle gusty which caught the wing)! But you got down safely, it wasnt that bad. We've all had scary landings. Great upload again. Im hoping to get flying some when but....this C thing Stay safe.
Paul, that's a nicely deep way of thinking about it. I think you have some good points there and I'm taking a lot away from the feedback. Yes, we need to beat the C and get back flying again. No more flying videos for a while. Thank you for your feeback.
Think I need to fly one of these things as I would have been happy with your second approach. Yes you were high and steep but I would have just bled off the energy. You appeared to have plenty of room.
You are right, but as Jim said, you can always go around. Ironically, if I'd have stayed on the ground on the first landing, I would be non the wiser. I can still go fly another day.
i guess the hole paramotor /paragliding wing collapse issues in thermic conditions is lovely not to be worried about that problem
Yes it is. I don't worry too much about it on my paramotor, however having the solid hang glider wing gives a different feel in flight.
Giles, mate, you are not going to like what I am going to say but you did ask! Let me tell you the BIG mistake you made on landing! - In those conditions, that first touchdown and landing was perfectly adequate and above all SAFE - you were never going to get a greaser on a day like that, so, ditch the "not happy with that" crap, because in reality, it was fine, not what you would have liked but fine, you were, of course, right to go around from the other two but honestly when it works leave it alone mate how would you have felt if you had been seriously injured or even wrecked the aircraft on that second or 3rd approach, remember you are a near beginner so learn to leave an adequate landing alone - Sorry!
Hello David, it's certainly been a year of development, and I'm sure you have seen a step change in the flying, I suppose it the joy/burden of making videos, everyone will see your mistakes ( if they are left in) and I do try and leave them in. Its been a fantastic journey and you've been following for a while now.
And I might have needed a change of pants after that last landing!
The pants were usable afterwards, it was just a bit of a shock.
Thanks, great video. These machines are just light... and this is the way they act. If anything, you may have just bitten off a bit more then you can chew...weather wise. Work up to it slowly...you know parameters have their limits...the Pee Bee has it's limits too (I don't think you were at it's limits) but you're learning what they are. Stay safe, and thanks again for posting
You have hit the nail on the head. I'm learning both its and my limit. I would happily paramotor in these conditions, the Sub 70 seems to have a smaller weather window.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 How many hours do you have in the Pee Bee and how many in the paramotor? I'll bet there's a big difference there. I've flown both paramotor (using a trike), have owned three trikes (my lightest on was Cosmos Samba and I have recently ordered an Aeros ANT), and flown lots of three axis ultralights. My feeling is the more inherent stability something has (the paramotor has the most, the Pee Bee is second, and three axis ultralights have the least) the more skill it takes to fly well. For instance...the paramotor takes lots of skill launching and quite a bit to land, but takes very little while in the air...it would fly better if the pilot was not in it. However, if you want to make it do something other than just fly in a straight line you need to "finesse" it to get to do what you want it to do. The Pee Bee is like that...it is very stable and to get it to do what you want it to do takes "finesse". So time and experience is what you need. What does Ben Ashman (the maker of the Pee Bee) say about flying in turbulent conditions?
@@stone8597 I've got over 300 hundred hours on Paramotors and love everything about them. they are easy to fly, fun and I feel completely in tune with them. I'm low hours on the Peabee. As you said, I just need time. I'm not rushing and am enjoying the journey. I talk to Ben often and we chatted a lot about this flight before I released the video. It was thermic but not super strong but have spent a lot of my flying activities (Gliders, paragliders etc) over the past 20 plus years seeking out the thermals. I appreciate your feedback. Due to the current situation, no more videos for a while, months even., sad times.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 I would agree. In my mind the upper weather limits of the sub 70 are less than a paramotor. But on the other end of the scale if you struggle to get airborne in low to nil wind conditions on a paramotor you won't have this problem with the sub 70
@@trev.lee.adventure how are your microlight lessons coming along? (bearing in mind the current situation).
Fly to your own limits which for now will be less than the aircraft/ microlight/. Take a note of the wind and gust on that day and don’t go out in the same again until you’ve got more experience particularly in that last 5 feet of the flare/landing. Don’t be in a rush to get it on the ground.
Hello Adam, just playing catch up on comments. I've had a steep learning curve since this video and have thoroughly enjoyed getting my NPPL which has definitely improved my flexwing skills.
Usually, the air is smooth early in the morning and late, right around sunset. Also it is rougher in the summer. Fly in the winter, or early or late in the day in summer. This will increase your odds of not getting knocked around.
Hi Tom, I've been flying for 28 years gliders, Group A PPL, Paragliders paramotors etc. When I flew paragliders I actually sort out the midday air its what keeps us up. This aircraft is technically a powered hang glider so i will be flying in the#se conditions and want to start thermalling it. If Only stick to the calm side I'll never develop my skills. Not sure if you are a UK flier but the conditions are generally flyable all year round. I was even flying in the heat of the day the last few days. Thanks for watching
Dude I thought for sure the peabee was going over 😧 well recovered! Would bar in have helped after landing?
The bar in is a delicate thing to manage. Too soon and you can destabilize the trike and it can roll.
You weren't very far from flying over my house.
I hope I didn't make too much noise. Were you near the take off or the landing?
It’s 90% head space don’t be to hard on yourself, should have finished on the first landing it was a good landing considering the condition. As it happened the last landing wasn’t so good so that just plays on your mind. You’ve got good skills just tell your brain that, it forgets sometimes.
It is amazing how much I have learnt since then.
@@GolfFoxtrot22
So when are getting a tandem?
@@deanfox8951 I'm happy with the PeaBee now its Single Seat Deregulated and I can carry more fuel. But as they say, never say never.
This is what I like about you Giles. Good isnt good enough. You will always push to be better. But you know when to also back off. Another interesting video. I would say (not sure if it's a camera trick) but it looked like the lz was on a hill. Could have been possible disturbed air on what looked to me almost leeward side of the hill. Again this maybe just the camera distorting the image but either way there was some sort of funky air going on as it pushed you over the your left.
Keep it up Giles you are keeping saints during this crap time. And with my new addition to the family all I can do is sit at home and watch videos.
Keep safe
Keep entertaining
Keep educating
Hi Harry, yes the landing strip is on a slight hill. It was certainly interesting. You are right, I like to get things right, why accept second best when probably why I do the job I do. I have a bit of a geeky one this week, tech talk on my Vlog set up. Keep safe with your new addition to the family.
Well I'm not sure I have the experience or qualifacations to add my input to what happend on your final.... The sky god flies another day :-) Good work Golf Foxtrot 22 !!
Thanks Kirbs, you keep safe out there. We will fly again.
Hi Foxtrot 22 :-)
Do you any vid front the front when landing ?
Nice vid I enjoyed it .
Hi Clive, unfortunately not, the front camera froze and the wing camera ran out of power.
How much is the ultralight trike or the nanolight trike
Hi Edgar, I've left a reply to this on one of your other comments. :)
I bet you wont be going above the clouds, you'll be motor off soaring under them!
One day Tom, one day.
Why is there no Windsock?
Hi Billy, have you been to Westonzoyland? I'm not sure why, it's been a while since I've been there. There are also 2 airfields in the same area, Middlezoy.
Great flight and imo great landings. The first landing looked perfect to me and I was amazed you went round! all were good given the conditions and landing at speed gives you more control and I think your advice you got was spot on. I remember flying from Hailsham to Shoreham at 1-30 pm on a hot sunny day against the advice of my instructor( he was in the back) but I wanted to see what it was like. We were thrown around like a leaf in the wind even though it was a calm day. I was convinced the wing would break but was assured it could take 10 tons of G-Force. (Pegasus) which didn't reassure me haha. We had to climb to 5000ft before it smoothed out. Nice one Giles. I have some old vids but they are on HI-8 tape!
Hello Peter, wow that sounds like a really 'adventurous' flight. I've been in a similar situation on my paramotor which really put me at the edge of my comfort zone. I've ben flying for nearly 30 years, but every flight is different. Its always hard to articulate in a video. Sorry for the delay in responding.
Pigs tits? That's a new phrase for me. Always educational, thanks Giles 😀👍
Be a lifelong learner. Glad nothing was broken on the arrival. You need a few more dates to get to know that gal. 🙂
Yes, I really do need more dates. We we got out from this Virus, I will be flying.
Maybe a gust, but you kept pushing the bar forward after landing. if you pulled it against you after touchdown this would be avoided and you would get more pressure on the nosewheel for steering authority..
I must say ,its wery amusing watching your videos, from the start with instructor and your progression. And its great that you got your voices too so its possible to get som tips and maybe som tricks :-) i was just as tence as you in the beginning and after a while you just rest your hand on the bar making small adjustment if needed..
Thank you for great videos that could recruit pilots and be a refreshment for rusty pilots.
Thanks for the comment. Yes, it was one of those..can I have another go at it. I was talking to a good hang glider pilot friend, he picked up on the rotation. He said I was hit with a gust from the right despite the prevailing wind from the left, which causes this rotation due to the delta shape wing, one leading edge creates more lift. I had literally only just touched down and twas hen picked up. It was also a bit boggy so I didn't want to pull in too hard for fear of bogging in the front wheel. I learnt a lot from this flight. It's certainly no Cessna 152. I've loved my flexwing journey.
stop with this search for the perfect landing every time you come in, you have quite a few go-arounds in your other videos and I guess it's just a habit from your tuition, your first attempt looked good, you should have left it at that and tried " better" next time, Sometimes the conditions dictate whether to take what you got and run with it, your %1000 better pilot than me and remember, any landing you walk away from is a good landing.
Its what makes us good pilots, if we only accepted the average, we would never strive to be better pilots. I only opted to do more circuits as I had fuel in the tank, sunlight and the conditions we light winds down the runway. The GoPro makes it seem more rock and roll than it was. I've been advised by all my instructors over the past 27 plus years of flying, when you can practice, do so. I can't wait to fly again.
As the old saying goes. A good landing is one you can walk away from, an excellent one is where you can use the aircraft again.
@@tonyblaster63 It's still a good phrase.
I reckon walking away from landings is linked directly to a willingness to go 'round; we can't perceive what you did- can't really make that call from this side of the screen, me thinks.